If you have time for more research, please help this Bitch out. This has been bugging me.
This is the Gemini constellation in TaeEul’s room.
It looks like this:
But I don’t think this is the Gemini constellation at all. The stars are hanging in Luna’s van.
From Ep 13, 54:00.
Can somebody please check what this is? This might shed light on Luna’s action.
Yes, this is Luna in pain.
According to her character preview, Luna was diagnosed with cancer and had three months to live. Link: More Plot Details
Thanks. As a reward, here are some gifs.
1. From Ep 4
This is still my favorite look of Lee Gon. I wish the gif-er made it a bit longer, though.
credit: dreamingsnowflake20’s tumblr
2. From Ep 11
LG: And yet we’ll only hold hands and do nothing else? Do you know what “scandalous” means?
credit: leo-princeofdarkness’s tumblr
3. From Ep 6
credit: kdramafan22’s tumblr
4. Maximus
credit: hishotnessminho’s tumblr
5. From Ep 13
I’m sure many fangirls would like to introduce this dude as their boyfriend. lol.
TaeEul: You can just tell just by looking at his face that he’s a decent guy.
credit: kdrama22’s tumblr
But I remember when she said that he looked like a petty criminal. From Ep 2.
His face, when he couldn’t think of a comeback, is funny.
Dear @Packmule3, it is possible that Luna’s point of view coincides with the actual form you will see them in the Northern Hemisphere (inclined). Also, if your picture is correct, it is possible that some stars were left off the shot.
Regrettably the only thing I can do for you is to pass some deeper information on both the constellation and the Greek myth.
https://www.constellation-guide.com/constellation-list/gemini-constellation/
My first guesses are that Luna is:
1.- Trying to wrap around her mind on her twin’s counterpart (to better replace her – we have seen that family members are the first ones to discover the switch) or…
2.- Luna is mirroring Tae-Eul (starting to feel empathy) or…
3.- Just like Luna feeds cats and worries about children, Luna feels bad on doing this to her counterpart. Unconsciously she could be trying to soothe her since her since Tae-Eul’s father has been so movingly amazing to her.
She might be feeling lots of guilt (she might be a thief, but robbing her King must feel especially heavy), unlike with Lee Lim who she has no problem to rob. He mocked her situation and she loathed him for that.
I see her coming to the light side (do you imagine Tae-Eul dressed as Luna getting into Lee Lim’s mancave and taking the correct umbrella while mocking him on camera?… that would be the icing of the cake 😉 . Regrettably even if it would be VERY satisfying it would also be anticlimactic as hell.
Hope it helps!!!
Oh, and:
4.- also she might be longing for a family 😉 . And Tae_Eul and her father has been the closest she has been to belonging to one.
Knowing where she comes from, she asking Tae-Eul’s father if she was a good daughter was a loaded one… only to be given a “dad answer” XD . Ironically her frustration was one the real Tae-Eul would have felt, so even if the two were not together that was kind of a bonding moment.
Thanks @pkml3.
@FGB4877 Oooh, I’d love to take your ideas as far as they’d go. I do think that Luna is a criminal with a heart and a code of ethics of her own. In one sense, it’s fortunate that TE’s dad is such an unobservant, unsuspicious and easy-going type. Luna had absolutely no reason to do anything to him, not that she’d actually kill him, I believe.
The warning about doppelgangers committing parricide was raised to get us to worry, but somehow I don’t really worry about TE’s dad or friends. Maybe I’m too complacent LOL.
I feel that one of the reasons for Luna to agree to play along with LL, whom she despises enough to rob, is that she gets to experience the kind of life she had been denied. She can’t actually get her health back (yet) but she can have briefly a home, a sense of what her family might have been like, and what her own parents must have looked like.
And although she might not live long, her brush against Shin Jae awakens hope that if she turned away from crime and came on the side of TE, she could actually make a more lasting connection with the Shin Jae too. Two lonely people from the same world, with a nebulous sense of belonging, might hit it off.
I’ve always had a soft spot for Shin Jae. I’d really like him to have a chance to meet his real mother, although I feel he should go back to ROK where the majority of his years were spent.
I like your idea of TE pretending to be Luna and getting into LL’s man-cave or whatever. That’s 1 way to get back the half of flute without having to travel back in time! 😁
@packmule, yay another rabbit hole to dive into! This show is full of them! I took a closer look at Luna’s constellation on the show. One screenshot isn’t representative of the constellation, as the camera pans while letting us take in all the stars pasted on the ceiling of the van. The pic that you posted has all the stars that were visible, but misses out on something else: a glow in the dark smiley face which is located at the top right of the constellation.
My guess is that what we see in Luna’s van is actually still the Gemini constellation, but it is incomplete. I’ll try to explain it here, but I will email you my diagram so that it’s easier to understand.
There are stars missing from the legs of the twins (but I take that to be due to the camera not filming the bottom part of the constellation). What is interesting though, is that Luna has used a round shape (smiley face) instead of a star to represent the position of Castor. Also equally interesting is that Pollux is visibly absent from her version of the constellation.
Pollux and Castor are supposed to be the 2 brightest stars in the Gemini constellation, and are the 2 stars you circled in TE’s constellation (which form the “heads” of the twins). In Greek mythology, “When Castor died, because he was mortal, Pollux begged his father Zeus to give Castor immortality, and he did, by uniting them together in the heavens.” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemini_(constellation))
My understanding is that Luna sees herself as being Castor, the mortal twin. She indicates this by using a smiley face to represent the star in the constellation. After all, I assume her name “Luna” means moon, so she uses a round shape & places herself in Castor’s position. She is terminally ill, & most definitely mortal. She likens TE to her way of getting a new life, just like how Pollux helped to give Castor immortality. However, in order to get that new life she wants, she needs to kill TE. Hence in her constellation, Pollux has been eliminated & is visibly missing.
On a side note, I remember @summerwind explaining the meaning of each character’s names in a previous post (Ep 9&10 open thread). I can’t insert what she says here since we can’t cut and paste, but I thought it was interesting that Tae Eul’s name refers to Polaris, while Luna probably refers to the moon. Polaris, being a star, is able to give off light on its own, which is very apt for a strong & brave character like TE. Whereas the moon is only visible when it reflects the rays of the sun, otherwise it is in shadow… which is a fitting description of Luna.
Thanks @JT7, this is interesting! I can’t for the life of me recognise constellations. I spent some time staring at different ones to see if the show’s pattern of 11 visible stars in the van might be turned this way or that to fit any obvious constellation. LOL.
I should go back to read our bitches’ informative posts.
I like the interpretation of the ‘twins’ names and how they tie in with Luna and TE. I wish, though, that we also knew Luna’s real name. It might be informative. Of course, the fact that she chose the name of ‘Luna’ among other names of cats, could be significant as well!! 😆
@GB I can’t too! I used TE’s diagram as a reference to compare with Luna’s constellation, before this I had no idea about constellation except the Big Dipper lol. It was seeing the smiley face that tipped me off, since it looked so out of place, so I went to sketch it out & realised that the face was placed in Castor’s position.
I don’t know how Lee Min Ho will be able to part with Maximus at the end of filming.
A horse like that, it’s a strong relationship.
Sorry you will get no help from me @packmule3. I’m stuck on gifs 1 and 3. Can’t think. Can’t breathe Need help. Supposed to be working 🤪
It looks like Gemini’s constellation for me. TE is born the 27th May, so it’s her astrologic sign.
Found this
http://www.seasky.org/constellations/constellation-gemini.html
Could the stars arrangement in Luna’s van be from a star map?
@WEnchanteur I saw on Instagram that LMH sent Maximus food gifts after filming. Saw the BTS – such a special and trusting relationship between both.
@JT7, there was magic in your comment. Luna seeing herself as Castor, the mortal twin holding hands with her immortal counterpart seems like a good omen for both of them. After all, there was a lot of love and sacrifice between these two brothers.
From the Wikipedia article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castor_and_Pollux
“The Dioscuri [The Twins] were regarded as helpers of humankind and held to be patrons of travellers and of sailors in particular, who invoked them to seek favourable winds. […] They characteristically intervened at the moment of crisis, aiding those who honoured or trusted them.”
So those are good omens!!!
@GrowingBeautifully, if you like my ideas then I don’t mind sharing =D (as a little bit of trivia: did you know that ideas are one of the few riches that gets bigger and better the more you share them? 😉 ). And no, I don’t see Luna committing murder on Tae-Eul’s family or friends since she has a 1.- code of ethics, and since 2.- she came to change her life for the better. Also 3.- she is dying, so she wants to have happy memories when her time comes. 4.- She is also a departure from the murderous, resentful kind of people Lee Lim tends to look for.
Ah @FGB4877 Yes, ideas are the gift that just keeps giving! 😊
The sign of Gemini is of course very apt for TE and Luna, since Castor and Pollux were ‘twins’ and we’re in a story of doubles and parallels. That they were a positive force in legend is definitely a good omen. I believe we have been hoping that TE and Luna will end up working together against LL, as a force to be reckoned with.
I’m looking forward to having Team TE gathered, with SJ, ES and Luna on the same side, and maybe sweet, innocent Jangmi too!
Can anyone do a horoscope for TE? We know she was born May 27, 1990, in Seoul, Korea. I’m thinking somebody with an astrology program might be able to run a chart for her, March-June 2020. Just for fun. Am I over thinking this?
Can’t help with Castor and Pollux, but, with Hospital Playlist on the brain, am thinking of Liver transplants between TE and Luna. The tragic ending is that TE is murdered for her liver. The happy ending is that TE is part of a live liver transplant that saves Luna, who is ultimately redeemed. The writer gives Luna three months to live so perhaps she’s too far along to be helped by medicine. The character of Luna does not seem to be written as evil and she is given some traits that make her sympathetic. Thought that the idea of a liver transplant was floated by the evil LL to get Luna onboard. There’s so much good stuff in this that after the drama ends, I’ll rewatch and reread all the Bitches posts.
I haven’t had any luck with this. I thought for a moment it could be the Lepus, the hare (wouldn’t it be neat if the self-sacrificing rabbit on the moon was Luna, and not TE?) but it doesn’t quite match, whereas the Gemini diagram in TE’s ceiling is perfect. If they are hiding a spoiler in an unnamed constellation that is mighty devious of them..
@JT7, I like the idea that it could be just a part of Gemini, with Castor = Moon sticker. Thematically it would be really neat, like the other commenters have said. Anything that hints at a Luna/TE team up is great in my book (though who knows how I will feel after ep. 14)
Thanks, Sofrito.
1. I thought it was Cancer…because she had cancer. (I know. I’m goofy that way)
2. Then, I thought, hey, what not Sagittarius, because Sagittarius was an archer. and Luna was a hired assassin.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3a/Sagittarius-teapot-asterism.jpg/450px-Sagittarius-teapot-asterism.jpg
3. Then, I considered Ophiuchus, the serpent bearer.
https://earthsky.org/upl/2012/08/ophiuchus.jpg
I know, right? The Gemini diagram in TE’s ceiling was perfectly drawn. One-to-one correspondence. The one in Luna’s van? Not so. But Luna definitely knew her constellations.
Thanks. 🙂
ShinJae is “lucky” to have both mothers, the real one and the adopted one, loved him very much.
I agree. doppelgangers commit parricide because their family members can recognize that they’re not the same person. Like Eunsub’s young sister recognized that Jo Yeong wasn’t her real brother. But in TaeEul’s dad’s case, he’s so oblivious that he didn’t spot the difference even though Luna had been living with him for days! If I were TaeEul, I wouldn’t know if I should feel insulted or relieved. How could he not know his own daughter??
Wait a second. Maybe we’re approaching this the wrong way. Maybe it’s a Chinese constellation that we’re looking at, not the Western star constellation? lol.
Hello hello!
The Gemini constellation in JTE’s room is derived from H.A. Rey’s 1952 publication, “The Stars: A New Way To See Them.” H.A. Rey was best known for creating the well-known and beloved children’s series Curious George! He wanted to redraw the constellation diagrams as he found the traditional depictions too difficult to remember. He was the one that first redrew the Gemini constellation to show the two twins holding hands. So in JTE’s room, we see the modern, H.A. Rey interpretation of the Gemini constellation, and Luna’s van looks to me like a depiction of the original, traditional box-shaped visualization.
Constellation Guide has a really interesting section on the myths behind the Gemini twins Castor and Polydeuces. According to Greek mythology, the twins were children of Zeus and known for being excellent horsemen, expert fighters, and the patron saint of sailors. It’s said that they were given the power to rescue shipwrecked sailors by the sea god Poseidon himself, who also gave them two white horses, which the twins rode often.
(!!! Sea god, expert fighters, white horses…there are definite parallels at play here…)
The twins are associated with St. Elmo’s fire, which is an electrical phenomenon appearing as luminous plasma/glowing orbs of light that occurs during thunderstorms (!!!). When sailors saw St. Elmo’s fire, they considered it to be their guiding light and guardian saint. @packmule3, didn’t you mention in an earlier post how you felt that the thunder was used as a warning mechanism for LG? Interesting connection, for sure.
Lastly, Castor and Polydeuces die in a very interesting fashion. They were said to have clashed with another pair of twins, Idas and Lynceas, over two women. There was a fight between both sets of twins and Castor was the first to die by Lynceus’ sword. Upon seeing this, Polydeuces avenged his brother’s death by killing Lynceus. After witnessing his brother’s death, Idas attacked Polydeuces. Fortunately, Polydeuces was saved Deus Ex Machina style by his father, Zeus, who sent a thunderbolt from the skies to kill Idas and save his son.
After, Polydeuces asked Zeus to share his immortality with Castor, his dead brother. Zeus obliged, placing both twins in the sky where they remain to this day, inseparable and immortal, as part of the constellation Gemini.
Sources
-Wikipedia article on Gemini (scroll down to Visualizations section): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemini_(constellation)
-Wikipedia article on H.A. Rey (scroll to Star Charts): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._A._Rey
-Side by side comparison of both visualizations: http://www.seasky.org/constellations/constellation-gemini.html
-Gemini Greek mythology: https://www.constellation-guide.com/constellation-list/gemini-constellation/
Hi @pkml3 @adrift
My pet theme of ‘Identity’ popped into my head LOL. I’ve written about it a few times. I like that this show keeps its characters consistent. TE’s dad never knew she’d been missing for a whole night, the first time she was in KOC, and now he does not even realise the girl living in his house is not TE!!! He never identifies her properly. (Yes, I’d be offended if I were TE!!!) Perfectly consistent!
Luna has no identity. We do not even know her real name.
She has no home, no job, and her life is compromised.
But in TE’s home, she does not need an identity of her own, dad treats her as TE. He identifies her as his own.
Like Castor and Pollux, TE inadvertently shared her identity (her life, if you will) with the dying Luna. When Fate asked Luna if she was about to go and steal again, she was quiet, thinking about how she was going to steal an identity. However if TE can share something of her life with Luna, it wouldn’t be theft afterall.
As for the Constellations. My son rightly pointed out that there are Korean and other Asian constellations because different people see the stars differently. So I Googled to see if any cropped up and they did, but they were complicated!!! LOL. I’m afraid I need the H.A. Rey’s version (Thanks for the infor @adrift!!) of any star arrangements so that I don’t get lost in space!!!
Ok I’ve fallen deep down this rabbit hole! @adrift, thank you so much for pointing out about H.A. Rey’s book. My kids love Curious George so we have most of that series, & we also have a copy of “Find the constellations”. I went to dig it out for another look. So here are some random observations:
1. I checked out the star signs for LG & LL, thanks to the very thorough character analysis by you guys here. LG is a Scorpio. LL is a Pisces. Both are supposed to be water signs (reminds me of how LL is always walking in the rain, and how LG is always near water). Gemini is an air sign.
2. All 3 signs have aspects of duality to them. It’s obvious for Gemini, since they are twins. Pisces is made up of (quoting from the book by Rey) “two fishing lines tied together in a knot, with one fish dangling from each line”. Scorpio has (again from the book) “two claws and a curved tail ending in a sting”.
3. The mythology behind Scorpio is interesting. Again from Rey’s book: “One day while Orion was pursuing a hare, she (Juno) had a scorpion sting his heel and Orion died.” Probably this is non-consequencial, but I thought it was interesting that there was a chase involving a rabbit. I’m starting to see rabbits everywhere!
4. Finally, since TE’s name apparently means Polaris, here’s what I read in Rey’s book: “Polaris is the only star that never changes its place in the sky… It always stays put while the other stars and constellations are moving. Polaris is also called the North Star. Why? Because it is always north… If you can find the North Star you know your directions right away. You won’t need a compass.” So apt for TE, since her actions (like buying LG his black jacket) seem to be guiding him along his destiny.
Thanks for the info from Rey’s book @JT7! I was interested to hear about Scorpio since I’m born under that sign. I don’t follow horoscopes, but I’d like to know if they apply to this show.
I like the idea of TE being the guiding star. It ties in with HCL Noh’s sense of things when she said to TE:
😄
@adrift @JT7 thanks for recommending Rey’s book, I will check that out. So interesting to see it through another writing ! I like the idea of dual zodiac signs and how they are all connected to water. How did you pick up LL and LG’s star sign?
@GB it is interesting what you highlight about the TE’s Father – maybe he has so much confidence in TE of taking care of herself and her scope of work. The fact that she is his only child.
@haengbok9 I guess it takes all kinds of folks to make society. I’d have thought that as his only child, he’d have more concern about her or would have noticed her more. 🙄 It’s a wonder that the easy-going obliviousness of TE’s dad did not result in her not being well brought up. He obviously gave her enough care and attention, so that she’s secure and confident, however, maybe like many typical Asian dads, he didn’t get up close and personal with her for any length of time.
What was interesting (but we know why this is out of character for him … it’s because of the PPL lol!) is that although he’s oblivious about his daughter’s style of speech and actions, he noticed her radiant complexion!! I seriously don’t think he’d notice much if she had changed drastically her hair or dress style.
I like that he has an eye out for the kids in the neighbourhood. To begin with, we first saw him accepting eggs (and this continued into the present!) from Taekwondo kids, instead of payment in money. We now see that he goes around with flyers and tries to get business by speaking with kids. However in the same way that he advised Shin Jae, he still advises kids. Either they go the wrong way into crime, or they can skirt the bad way by joining the police. (And of course taking up Taekwondo is a good first step to being prepared for either!!) LOL.
It’s useful for TE to be a detective, with the excuse that she has to do overnighters and stakeouts. I guess her dad does not consider worrying too much about her, since she’s a black belt and a police officer.
Still, unless Luna was able to channel TE or unless dad or Luna was hardly home, it’s mighty weird that he never thought her (Luna) acting strange all those days TE was away.
@GB he did ask about what is with her today and was she having a stake out at a bar when Luna first met the Dad at the fence. And later ask what is with the look she had over the meal. He showed his concern by preparing food for her and providing a home for her while running a Taekwondo school. His style of parenting do remind me of what my mum will do – preparing meals for me but rarely probing into what I do outside or after a day’s a work. Possibly an older generation Asian style of parenting. I think he did notice the change but he didn’t probe.
Yes I also like the part of him looking out for the neighbourhood kids – though it may seem like he was trying to get business. Haha ..thought he was really cool to swipe the cigarette off the boy’s lips to prove his point.
@Packmule – Since Luna likes cats I looked up any constellation even remotely cat-related. If it’s a Chinese constellation I wouldn’t even know where to begin haha
Because the roof of the van is so close her constellation is really zoomed in, and some stars (I think three) move in and out of view. There’s also a bit of distortion on the edges which makes diagramming hard, but I assembled a single version of the constellation on paper. Even counting all of the stars (13 if you include the moon sticker), I couldn’t match the shape to a non-Gemini constellation.
I think it is Gemini, but rotated compared to how it’s shown in TE’s ceiling. You don’t get to see four of the stars that are out of view of the camera (the two lowest nodes of Pollux’s outer leg and Castor’s outer hand and the tip of his foot). My take wouldn’t have the moon sticker matching Castor, however. The moon sticker would represent Pollux’s outer hand.
The problem with this guess is that the Gemini shot doesn’t perfectly track at 180 degrees, which would make sense story-wise. The van shot is tilted, showing Gemini’s two heads at 4 or 5 o’clock where TE’s perfect diagram has them at 12 o’clock. Why would they show Gemini on a slant?
I think Luna is moving around a lot in that scene, so her disorientation is our disorientation. Luna might have Gemini rotated at 180 degrees from how TE diagrammed it, but we get the shot at about 120 degrees because Luna is all twisted up in pain. If the van roof had a rotated Gemini with the heads at 6 o’clock, but you were hunched up in pain on your right side while you were looking up, I think you would see Gemini like Luna sees it in the van scene.
I’m like 65-70% sure this is the shape, which is not a great range but oh well
@haengbok9 & @GB: I was wondering if TE’s dad being a single parent, plus him trying to run a school while not being very good at the business aspect of it (since he accepts a truckload of eggs instead of school fees) would mean he is probably very busy and doesn’t have much time or mental capacity to watch over TE much. And he probably takes it for granted that she can take care of herself, with that tough personality & black belt. So he doesn’t take much notice of her daily comings and goings, which made it easy for Luna to impersonate TE. But while he may be gruff and tough love and all… he is a really sweet dad.
@haengbok9: LG and LL’s birthday were given in scenes in the show… and the good ladies who wrote the character analyses on this blog noted them all down.
@packmule: Your comment about Chinese constellations made me think about the Chinese zodiac, which I think is similar for the Koreans. I went to do a quick check on the zodiac signs for the characters whose birth year we know, just for fun. TE was born in the year of the horse. (So now LG has 2 horses to count on ha.) And guess what? LL, LG, and SJ… they all are born in the year of the rabbit! Seems like KES really has a lot of rabbits on her mind.