Oli and I were discussing whether HongShim knew who LeeYul was so I thought a follow-up might be in order.
Advisory: this post has lots of pics.
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I’m a forgiving bitch. I can overlook a lot of the stupid things that this writer has done, like
-confusing us about the fake father’s lies on WonDeuk’s existence
-trolling us on the identity of the CPrincess’ baby
-annoying ME with the shady JeYoon (but I’ve to give this guy credit: he’s been helpful in Episode 14)
-saddling with random moments of prosopagnosia
-creating too many minor characters
-confounding us with riddles
-delaying our happily-ever-after for dreary subplots
-killing off LY’s bodyguard in the first week (Hey! You should have picked an ugly actor so we wouldn’t have missed him).
I can be magnanimous. I can disregard all these and even include this kdrama on my List of Recommended Shows if and only if the writer can twist the plot to show that HongShim had known all along that it was LeeYul beside her all the time.
It’s a matter of logic, and fairness. LeeYul thought himself a very stupid guy for not recognizing HongShim.
WD: YiSeo (she turns to look at him) It is you. Yoon YiSeo.
HS: How do you know that name, Your Highness?
I thought her reaction here was weird. She should have said, “How do you my name?” or “How do you know it’s me?” She didn’t look happy that he found out who she was. She should have been relieved, glad or that he finally discovered their connection. Instead, she looked wary. To me, this was the same reaction she had when she saw him on the bridge in Episode 1 and she hightailed out of there.
WD: It is me. Palboongi.
He shows her the red hairtie, and continues.
WD: I was the dumb kid who had not read “Elementary Learning,” and you tied this ribbon around my arm.
She glances at the ribbon he’s holding out. Then, she has a flashback:
She asks, “Do you like snow or petal showers.” He replies, “I like…you. I will marry you.” He brags, “I finished ‘Elementary Learning’ in 10 days.’ She pets his head, “Well done. You came all the way here to brag about it, Palboongi?” He shouts to the armed soldiers, “Stop what you are doing right now! I am Lee Yul, son of Prince Neungseon!” She stops and turns around to hear him shouting at the soldiers. They look at each other and he signals her to go and escape.
Back to reality, she’s amazed that he’s kept her hairtie.
HS: Why do you still have that?
WD: For all my life, I have missed you.
HS: You really…are dumb.
What did she mean by that? Was he dumb because he should have looked for her instead of just missing her? Or was he dumb because he should NOT have been pining away for her and he should have moved on with his life? Or was he dumb because his feelings were dumb and childish for somebody who was a royalty? Or was he dumb because he was hurting himself needlessly by holding on to her memory? What did she mean? lol.
To continue:
WD: You are right about me being dumb. Even though you were still alive, even though I had you by my side (as his wife), I did not know it was you. I did not realize it until today.
HS: Have all of your memories come back?
This seems to be a fair question. But I can’t tell if she 100% wants his memory back or not. lol.
WD: No. Just the memories of you.
I agree with Oli. This is a romantic moment. If he had to recapture only some images of his past life, then I would’ve wanted him to keep the MOST precious ones. I’m glad that even the drugs that Minister Kim had given him couldn’t impair his memory of her.
LeeYul begins to walk. He passes her without touching.
Ooohhh. Killing me softly, eh? lol. Kdramas have made an art form of showing how passionate RESTRAINT can be. Who the heck needs instant gratification?
I really love the pleats on her skirt here. There’s something tantalizing about long skirts with folded lines. In paintings, nudes with a piece of clothing or scarf draped over the body are often seen as more alluring than plain naked ones because there’s a subtle invitation to the viewer to come and uncover the body. lol. (But shhhh… you didn’t hear this from me.)
WD: We may part ways like this today but I will seek you out soon again.
He walks away. She turns to watch his disappearing back. A stranger quickly follows after him.
See that?
If LeeYul was berating himself and calling himself palpoongi for not immediately recognizing her, then what about HongShim? Wasn’t she a bigger fool than him? If not recognizing her made HIM stupid – and he had amnesia as a mitigating factor – then what was HER excuse for not recognizing him immediately? hahaha. I say SHE’s palpoongi, too!
He knew her name Yoon YiSeo in the same way SHE knew the Crown Prince’s name was Lee Yul.
That’s why she STUMBLED when she heard of the Crown Prince’s death in Episode 6. lol.
She stumbled and WonDeuk caught her by the arm.
WonDeuk asked her, “Is the news of his death that shocking?” (trolling again, writer?)
And she gave this weird reaction. Like she was sighing or something. (Too bad I don’t know how to gif.)
It’s also why she was loudly protesting the Crown Prince’s decree forcing everyone to marry. She even called him “palpoongie.” hahaha. She knew him.
In my opinion, she’d ‘s an even bigger be the real palpoongie than Lee Yul if she didn’t recognize him after those 100 days.
I love that he admits he is palpoongi only to her whilst to JY and everyone else he is of superior intellect and doesn’t let his guard down there. Aww… he is a fool in love indeed. Must admit I didn’t think too hard about her running away but it did bother me how she knew the link to palpoongi and LY and had that weird conversation with her dad explaining it as if it only dawned on her then.
Certainly your flow of events seems logical so hopefully we will get some closure to tie up loose ends (some) in last 2 episodes.
If Hong Shim had known Palpoongi is Crown Prince she wouldn’t despise Crown Prince for his order she would be disappointed at most. To her Palpoongi was her savior and cherished memory from her childhood. Even after getting married that didn’t change. Just like how she considered her brother as righteous man without question. Remember she made a point that most commoners doesn’t know Crown Prince’s face (and birth name). Even royal inspector could not recognize him as Prince. That’s why she couldn’t make that connection as well. There was few incidents she felt familiarity from Won Deok but she brushed it off. Both are dummy indeed heh. But I like how they come to love each other for the kind of person they become now even without that connection.
Hey there! I didn’t know you were here. I missed you. And where’s staygold? Weird. I thought more of you ladies would be watching this show….
You have a point there. But I do think she would ~despise~ him (despise is too strong of a word, but I can’t find the right one now.) because he did NOT fulfill his promise.
She would feel wronged, spurned, abandoned, disappointed, angry, resentful (lol. It’s a multiple choice. Just take your pick) because he didn’t turn out to be man of his word.
Exactly why she hero-worshipped her brother. Because in her mind, the only reason her brother did NOT fulfill his promise to meet at the bridge was because he died. So she visited every month and held up her side of the promise.
With LeeYul, she must have known that he got married. (And for me, that’s the reason she RAN away from him in Episode 1. I keep on insisting lol that her AVOIDING LeeYul at that bridge is no accident. She ran and hid from HIM because she recognized him. There’s no logic to her behavior then.)
Anyway, she considered her brother a righteous man but she would NOT consider LeeYul a righteous man because he broke his promise to marry her.
And that’s why she called the Crown Prince “stupid.” For breaking his word. For not trying to look for her.
(And that’s why seeing the hair tie SHOOK her. She realized that she had been wrong in thinking that he’d forgotten her.) 😂
In fact, if you listen again to her protests when they were being forced to match up and marry, she kept going on and on about how stupid this CP was and that he wasn’t doing his job of feeding the people and “what kind of Crown Prince was he anyway?”
Go ahead. Rewatch that whole scene. She had it in for him — like she had a grudge on him. Lol. She was unusually feisty that Lord Park came out because of her ruckus.
You have to rewatch the whole show to see the understand the new context.
And yes most COMMON people wouldn’t know how the CP looked like and his birth name. That’s EXACTLY why she COULD make an observation like that. Did you get it? She was speaking from experience that most people wouldn’t know how his appearance and his name.
There was a time I enjoyed discussion more than watching drama but now it’s opposite don’t ask me why lol
Hong Shim was reasonably angry with Crown Prince at first but after so much trouble she went through with Won Deok she did say she despises Crown Prince since it’s all his fault. But whenever she talked about Palpoongi she would smile softly. Two scenes I can remember when she doted on Meok Gu(hungry kid) because he reminds her of Palpoongi and when she used Yool’s memory to convice WonDeok to stay, she smiled at him. So I thought it’s just sweet memory to her and it didn’t mean as much as it did to Yool. Sorry sweetie. So…
“And that’s why she called the Crown Prince “stupid.” For breaking his word. For not trying to look for her.
(And that’s why seeing the hair tie SHOOK her. She realized that she had been wrong in thinking that he’d forgotten her.)”
She was not holding onto such an unrealistic dream. I can’t see how Yool could keep his promise and find her when she was in hiding. We know he tried and failed.
I don’t know about her reaction at bridge. She was avoiding eye contact with anyone. She tried to ran away from Je Yoon too. If she recognized her there and then how couldn’t she not when he was Won Deok. It just doesn’t make sense.
Stupidly enough, she was holding on to that dream. That’s why she refused to get married. 🙂
And that’s the reason for her whole stupid mumbo-jumbo about bearing 100 floggings instead. Remember? How would YOU explain that? Was she lying then and sharing with WonDeuk her secret?? (I told you people here that she had NEVER shared with anybody else about the cherry blossom promise except for WonDeuk. Not even to her brother.)
Come on now, onlysb. If this writer can TROLL all of the audience regarding the baby’s father for 15 or 16 episodes, don’t you think it would be even more worthwhile for her/him if we got trolled over HongShim’s memory of WonDeuk? That’s what THIS writer is doing right now.
That’s the reason the viewers were confused on what she knew and didn’t know about WonDeuk from the start. Because none of it rang true. None of what HongShim was doing made sense because she was DOUBLE BLUFFING. 😂😜
I had to go and point out in that other forum that the lie was begun by her fake father because I could read all the comments and people were so confused. 🙂 I said the WonDeuk was a lie but WHAT I DIDN’T SAY was she too was willing to go with that lie to cover for something else. She was double bluffing. Or lying to protect a lie.
And nope. That bridge reaction is weird. When JeYoon got her out of the hiding place, she STOOD HER GROUND. When JeYoon followed her, she also STOOD HER GROUND. Then the following month when JeYoon “accidentally” met her on the bridge, she STOOD HER GROUND.
Running away from a stranger is NOT her style. Have you seen her run away in fright from anybody else in the rest of the 14 episode? Even with this last meeting with Minister Kim, she STOOD HER GROUND. 😂 (Although I wish she did run like she ran away from LY at the bridge in Episode 1).
Do you see what I mean? The only time she RAN was when she saw LeeYul approaching her on the bridge. And she ran like hell.
And as for the story not making sense…. heyyyy! Don’t blame ME. hahaha. I’m just telling YOU the inconsistencies and I’m just pointing out the THINGS that most viewers missed out. Why? Because there might be a reason behind them. Don’t get trolled by this writer.
Just like the riddle Yool prepared for Je Yoon, I doubt it’s on the level you think. 😬
Her refusal of marriage makes even less sense if she knew Palpoongi was already married. She had too much secret that would be exposed if she ever get married for real. When she asked Won Deok to come with her it was obvious she feared he wouldn’t want to be someone like her. She told her brother ‘He doesn’t care about my past’
That riddle was made complicated by the amnesiac LeeYul when HE himself said at the beginning that the pre-amnesiac LeeYul would have dumbed-down that riddle. That’s why I suggested the most simplistic thing: cherry blossom + box = the diary.
When you think about it, cherry blossom + door does NOT lead you to anything.
Remember, the message was only a clue. JY had no idea WHAT HE WAS LOOKING FOR. So if he was giving the clue cherry blossom + door, tell me then. What do you think will he find?
Nothing.
Because the riddle did not ACTUALLY tell him what he should be looking for. Didn’t you get it?
It’s like I tell you, “onlysb, please go to room 12.”
If you’re a smart and bitchy person, you’ll say, “Okay, I’m at room 12 now, packmule3. What now? What do you want me to see here?”
And you’ll go rummage through everything in room 12. The laptop, the books, phone, clothes, jewelry, the bedding. But you won’t be able to guess WHAT I want from room 12 because I didn’t specify it.
You don’t know what you’re searching for. That’s the problem of JY. He wouldn’t know what he was supposed to look for IF the riddle only meant “cherry blossom + door.”
But if I tell you “cherry blossom box,” you can search my whole house for that cherry blossom box, but once you find it, you’ll immediately KNOW the importance of the content. As soon as you open the BOX, you’ll know what the diary meant. It meant secrets.
Do you understand what I’m saying here? The answer to the riddle “Cherry blossom + door” is too general to be of any use.
I also said that I didn’t need to know Chinese to guess that the word would have 6 boxes. lol. (Because I didn’t.) It was just logical for me that this word “heel” would be the 6th word in the sequence of the previous riddle. That’s why he gave the riddle specifically to JY… because they bonded over the riddle.
Sherlock, I’m not. But it was just a logical progression to the riddle.
FOR NOW, I don’t see any reason for the writer to make the riddle soooo convoluted that it took about 2/5 of that episode to figure out, other than 1) to troll the viewers and 2) to establish that JY and LY always bonded over riddles.
I don’t know WHY HongShim did what she did. I can only TELL you where her actions don’t make any logical sense. And just because they’re illogical doesn’t mean that we should ignore them. Perhaps THAT is the whole point. Her inconsistencies and illogical actions, when put together, show that she was hiding something.
Her brain is very interesting. LeeYul is a lot easier to understand but hers? From the very beginning, I suspected that she was hiding something because she wasn’t straightforward. Like she went to Hanyang every month but not even her friends knew what she did there. Or that she knew how to read and write but she didn’t want people to know.
I also told you, right? In my post where I broke down her response to her father about “forgetting” WonDeuk. I said that HongShim is very guarded in her response. Instead of arguing with her brother, she opted for the nicer way. That’s how she coped.
And YOU GOT IT, too, my friend, when you said that “She had too much secret that would be exposed if she ever get married for real.” I don’t understand at all except maybe she was grasping at the main chance and thinking it would all end for the better anyway.
But observe her honeymoon night. Didn’t you notice how “aggressive” (sorry, I’ve to use this word for now for lack of better one) she was that night? As if she was daring him to “go on, boy! kiss me. let me see you do it, sooo stupid.” She even disrobed him.
hahaha.
But when their feelings started to grow, she became “virginal” (again pardon this word. I don’t mean to insult virgins.) So what was THAT all about, that seductress act on their honeymoon night? lol.
To understand if a character is hiding something I look at moments they talk to themselves. I agree Hong Shim is secretive and guarded most of the time but she wondered a lot about what to make of WonDeok. Like what she supposed to say when he asked what kind of person he was before amnesia? She never known him personally! Like what it means to her if he gained his memory. Like how could he be so talented in martial arts if he was WonDeok.
On their honeymoon I think she did it on purpose to make him feel even more uncomfortable with her. Next morning it was clear she didn’t want to get involved with him and call off their marriage whenever she wants.
But when their feelings started to grow she was feeling guilty about her lies.
🙂 I don’t have all the answers onlysb. I’m not THE writer here. But as I said I can tell you the inconsistencies he/she made, and I can line them up very well.
Those inconsistencies if you add them all up, especially if they’re inconsistencies that happen at certain moments, would point to a deliberate and conscious reorganization of facts.
Like, what’s the whole point of that extended flashback with YeSeo hearing LeeYul call out his name? That didn’t help move the plot at all. As a matter that particular 10 second scene SCREWED up the whole theory that HongShim didn’t know who LeeYul was, that she was clueless the whole time.
Not only that. To emphasize that SHE heard him, the young LeeYul and HongShim glanced at each other and acknowledged each other.
Why on earth did the writer put that in? 😂
She knew him. In the same way, she recognized her own brother in the market and didn’t let him go until he acknowledged it during the sword fight. If the palpoongi LY could recognize her in an instant, she SHOULD recognize him too in … maybe two or three days?
And yes, I can understand why she wouldn’t want to have any of him after that honeymoon night turned to bust. Wouldn’t you? 😂 I would. He just made me feel like I was chopped liver, so good riddance to him. That fool!
This feels like our PM’ing days back in the other forum…..
Same thoughts. What is the use of such a twist if it didn’t affect flow. If Hong Shim had that info she could easily debunk brother’s ‘ill-fated’ advice. Heh. I am looking forward to see his lies getting exposed now.
Yup, that surely hurt her pride she remembered exactly what he said that night lol.
Whoa robust discussion amongst friends is a wonderful thing to watch from the sidelines. I find women folk harder to predict in dramas…they don’t follow logic as consistently as men and what seemed right to them one minute could just as well be turfed the next. It didn’t make sense to me that the CPrincess would ask someone to shoot an arrow to get MY to stay…why not just “use your words”? I blame our hormones which make us unpredictable yet so devilishly mysterious and alluring 😂
I thought palpoongi only linked her to being YS because of the context of the falling petals?
And I agree that the extended flashbacks only seem to complicate it more. The scene with her explaining it to her Father didn’t make sense. It sounded like she only pieced all the bits together after LY’s revelation on the bridge…and her hesitation when he called out her name and query as to how he knew that name didn’t make sense if she knew all along. She didn’t say, “well about time!!” I don’t know if it’s the fault of the writer or the actress…I find her line delivery and thought processes not as in depth as DKS.
Good points though. Not sure if the writer will give us enough in the last 2 episodes to work out if she knew all along before. There’s still that blank check the king gave Minister Kim that hasn’t come into play yet. I am not sure if he will use it to wage war or as his final redemptive act for a royal pardon for his Daughter and yet to be born grandchild.
To be honest I didn’t put much thought into her running away in their first encounter with the falling cherry blossoms. But if she did recognise him as LY in the 100 days, well…she wasn’t very nice to play him like that? I think that’s the only reason why I would prefer (not that it’s logical) her not to have known. I would like to believe that whilst she may have linked Palpoongi to LY, she didn’t recognise WD/LY the grown man and known that he was CP. If she did recognise him and played along all those 100 days…she would’ve
1. Known that he was already married to the CPrincess and she’d be committing adultery? Unless that wasn’t common knowledge? Surely a royal wedding would be BIG news even in those times? He had an excuse, she didn’t, had they bedded?
2. Been petulant and vindictive to the point of being unreasonable. Did she want him for herself? Is that why she kept him in the dark that whole time? It would be a secret that would be hard to reveal to him at any point…she may well have to keep it to her grave.
It wouldn’t paint her in a very good light at all for me. It’s one thing to want your prince to be true to his word (I mean come on, they were kids then, to hold a grudge for that long over a promise made in innocence is just…well…petty?) but quite another to respond in kind as an adult (actually 1000 times worse) by being vindictive and making him suffer like that from breaking his promise? Pettiness is not a good character trait at all for a Queen… LY pre-village was petty – nobody could smile or be happy just because he wasn’t? He would’ve made a horrible King.
Same here! If she went along with this charade knowing he was LY…ugh! What a mess. I don’t want to think of the repercussions just yet.
But this writer screwed up the narrative with that extended flashback.
I just checked Episode 3. She didn’t seem to have any inkling who WonDeuk was up until the water mill encounter. When they were about to leave the mill, she tripped and WonDeuk caught her. WD said something like, “you’re really clumsy. Watch where you’re going.” And HongShim had this weird look on her face, as if she realized that she heard that remark before. WonDeuk was ready to leave the mill but she was still deep in thought.
But that’s about it.
It’s Friday night here, date night with husband. Gotta go.
If the above scenario is true PM3 and she played him the whole time… you and I will not be marrying off our favourite son to her I’m afraid…
“If anyone here just cause why this man cannot be married to this woman, they should speak now or forever hold their peace”
You and I would be leaping out from the pews… lol!! 😂 NOOO WonDeuki!! She’s played you!!
It’s almost too late to even say anything anymore because the writer has got everyone on the OTP bandwagon and the MY/CPrincess happy ever after buggy too…nevermind the fact that she’s (CPss) never worked a day in her life and will be wishing she stayed instead. The grass that she thought was greener is going to turn out to be straw for making them shoes… 😂
Have a good trip.
It was ‘made’ confusing like how far Yool remembers regarding his past, or relationship between Moo Yeon and Crown Princess or whose side Je Yoon was.
I know Onlysb. I feel like she tried to be too clever and muddied the story as a result. It was a fun ride though. The last time I enjoyed a Sageuk so much was 7 Day Queen. Sounds like tvN are so delighted with the ratings that they are sending cast and production staff on an all expenses paid holiday to Bali in December. Not long to wait now. Sounds like last 2 Episodes will be longer than most. 80minutes each.