I like @growing_beautifully’s comment here. I agree.
Man Wol is rather full of herself … she alone, (she thinks), is be considered as someone unique or to be remembered. She claims the moon is the same for a 1,000 years, that although there were 48 managers “They’re all the same people. It’s useless to count.”
But when Mago calls her the innkeeper of a Guest House she says both the house and her title have changed, from guest house to a Hotel and herself from innkeeper to President – as if a name change means anything of significance. But Mago contradicts her – innkeeper and president are the same thing. Heh!
She gets offended when the Old Woman/Ma Gosin mixes up her hotel names and her job titles. Yet she says that the 48 managers, including the last one Manager Noh, are all the same people so it’s useless to count them.
On the contrary, she remains the same unchanging person throughout a millennium while those managers are different individuals.
But to her defense, I think she wants them all to stay indistinguishable and anonymous so she won’t miss them. It’s a defensive mechanism to survive all those centuries. She can’t form attachments because she’ll get hurt each time they die on her and leave her lonely. That’s the problem with living for eternity when everybody else lives temporarily.
Good one, @GB!
CS caught her fancy – I’m thinking it happened that time she saw him as a kid, when his father tried to locate the hotel to return the money. He smiled at her as she sat in the car (and she was munching something!! Talk about being a foodie). What do you think?
To be honest, I cringed at this scene.
I don’t know whether this was the Hong sisters’ idea of an inside joke or they were referring to that brouhaha IU had with her one of her pop songs, “Zeze.” She was accused of sexualizing a beloved character from a children’s book and she apologized.
Updated to add a link about the whole controversy. This is a good read.
The Hong sisters are known to comment or to poke fun at the zeitgeist of current K-entertainment. I was frankly surprised that more people didn’t see connections but then, I’m not going to open that can of worms by myself.
The Sign/Logo/Brand – I too felt that the original sign for Man Wol’s name was like a brand and like a sword slash or a scimitar-like sword, through a circle/moon. I was thinking more in terms of ‘sword’ = death. I mentioned it vaguely on my DB fan wall whose link is with the other post on the logo.
I felt that the logo changed from a full moon to a crescent and from a sword to a branch … meaning that there was movement towards the more hopeful and life-giving.
Although I am far from a maths nerd, I also write my zero with a slash through it, but never connected the sign with ‘Zeroth’ or that giving him zeroth place meant ‘owning’ him.
Another thought: the Moon Tree swallowed up MS’s sword. The Moon is round, and seen from the top, the tree looks round and it has a sword inside it! So the logo of sword in moon fits pretty well!! However it was a sign for MW’s name even before she met Mago.
Totally agree. It did look like a zero with a blade slashing through it. It reminded me of Zorro killing his enemies with his rapier and branding them with his “Z” like a livestock. lol.
Yes, the tree did swallow up her sword. Meaning, the tree consumed all her grudges and vengeance. It’s often been said that grudges can take a life of their own, and in this instance, the tree actually grows because of her grudges.
Also, the visuals work for me because to transform from a killer to a hotelier, all that deadly negative emotions must be disposed of or transferred onto another object. Hospitality is the one critical attribute of a hotelier but a person carrying a vendetta can hardly be welcoming. The tree is the repository of all her toxic feelings.
On an additional note, it would annoy the heck out of me were Hong sisters do something as trite as make Manwol the moon, and Chansung the star.
Bleh!
I saw that shooting star when they were up in the sky bar and I rolled my eyes. The Hong sisters do so love shooting stars in their kdramas.
Here’s @flying_tool’s question about the tree.
Question about the tree. In episode 1, MW is standing in a desolate empty space when we see a shadow approaching her from behind. All we really see is a head. MW spins and thrusts her sword … into the heart of the tree, which grows and swallows her sword. I thought the tree was part of MW, but now… is the tree in some way one of the two men in her life, one who she killed with her sword?
Yes, I saw the shadow and I did ask myself if that tree wasn’t the embodiment of the Other Guy/Captain of the Guards. But Manager Noh and the Ma Gosin/Old Woman keep reminding us that that tree is Mawol.
First, if the shadow was indeed the Captain’s spirit, then that was a clear sign that he’s dead. lol. Moreover, the shadow was about to attack her from behind. Backstabbing = betrayal.
He had his sword raised to smite her.
And last, if Mawol “sensed” that it was the Captain’s spirit sneaking up behind her BUT she still slashed at it, then there really was no love lost between them.
But I’m keeping my options open. I don’t know who betrayed whom. Viewers always assume that the guy is the nefarious one. But it’s also possible that Manwol betrayed him to protect Yeon Wu or for a greater cause. Right now, as the story stands in Episode 4, the most likely way that the Captain could have betrayed her was to release Yeon Wu to her as a scheme to gain her confidence and lead the guards to her and her bandit’s hideout. But we’ll find out soon enough….
I think the tree swallowing her sword means the tree literally consumed all her deep-seated grudges and symbolically became one with her. That’s why it’s her tree-spirit. And unlike the Christian concept of a trinitarian god, I don’t think there are three persons (MW, CS and the Captain) in one tree.
lol.
In discussions, there are threads about MW needing to forgive herself to move on; what if she’s hanging on to keep someone who betrayed her from moving on? In that case, she would not want the tree to leaf and flower…even after a thousand years, given her personality…
Ah, yes, forgiveness. Manwol needs to forgive and to be forgiven. I like @nrllee’s take on this.
But I don’t think she’s hanging on to her grudge with the sole intention of keeping the Captain from moving on (or whoever betrayed her). She knows that Captain has already moved on. If Chansung’s interpretation is correct that she’s been waiting for the Captain to return all these centuries, then she must know by now that the Captain moved on already.
Literally and metaphorically, she’s DWELLING in her anger and resentment. She isn’t growing and living a happy, meaningful life. Now, forgiveness is one way of moving forward. But she can also get rid of her grudges by:
a) accepting things for the way they are,
b) learning to love again,
c) living more in the present than in the past,
d) really loving oneself, mistakes and all, and
e) letting go.
She’s carried the weight of that full moon for far too long, and Chansung is the one to help her unburden herself.
And to reuse the idea of a ghost’s memory being faulty, perhaps MW’s anger is misplaced, due to a faulty belief or memory? She’s remembering the betrayal, but not everything else, the inverse of the eyeless ghost…
That’s possible. She can have a faulty memory and a misplaced anger.
But I think the problem with her is that she keeps her memories hidden in the dark, and as Justice Louise Brandeis once said, sunlight is the best disinfectant. By opening up about the painful past, she can resolve her issues faster. But she already threatened to chop off the Old Woman’s tongue when she mentioned it. And she punished Chansung for wanting to talk about it.
From Episode 3:
CS: It’s possible that what I saw is a memory from a past life that I can’t remember.
MW: There’s no way that you could be that person.
CS: Why not? After having the dream, you were constantly on my mind. In any case, I would guess that we may have a special relationship.
Without hesitation, MW approaches him and lays a hand on him. That means that she too wants to get answers, too.
MW: It’s not you. I don’t feel anything. If you were that person, there’s no way I would be like this.
That second sentence of hers is important. What does she mean? Does she mean she would be ecstatic or livid? People simply assumed that she would be joyful to see the Captain again. What if she meant she’d be wrathful?
She took a swig of the champagne.
CS: That’s a relief. (he was face-saving here.) I really felt uncomfortable thinking that I might have been someone that you liked. Wasn’t he someone you liked? It seemed like you liked him a lot.
MW: Gu Chansung. The more you say useless things, the more exorbitant a price you’ll have to pay.
Since she no longer branndishes a sword, she learned not to threaten people with cutting off their tongues. She uses an alternative method.
CS: What exorbitant price? Are you not going to give me my salary? Even though I signed a contract?
MW: Gu Changsung! From today on, you will receive ghosts.
See that? She clamps down on any attempts to discuss the past. She blocks people out from seeing her weakness.
Finally, flowers of the tree gave memories through dreams. The leaf…?
Yes, I think the leaf means something, too. Let me think about this further. The leaf is important because it’s part of the logo. But there’s an obvious contrast between the moon and the leaf. It was mentioned in Episode 3.
Old Woman: Are you looking at the moon which has risen today? Is it the same moon from 1000 years ago when we met?
MW: It’s the same moon. Would it be different? (sarcastically)
The moon is unchanging. Constant.
But that’s not the same with the leaf. Leaves, like blossoms of trees, are ephemeral. They’re fleeting. They don’t last for a long time. (That’s why I can’t decide whether I love spring or autumn better. They remind me of the same thing: the beauty of impermanence.)
Old Woman: Well, death is something which soon leads to life.
MW: I died as well. Why am I here and not gone?
OW: You didn’t die. I told you that while being bound to the vengeful spirit tree, the flow of life and death has stopped for you.
MW: Until when am I tied?
OW: You’re the one who’s frozen and stuck here.
MW: The life in me got wrung dry and I died.
By “life,” she meant the spirit in her or the joy of living or the meaning of life.
MW: (continuing) When the tree is suddenly cut down and set on fire, I’ll go on my own.
But there’s some kind of force field around the tree. She tried to throw the wine glass at it, but the wine glass shattered before it hit the tree. So she herself can’t injure the tree. Which makes sense. She can’t commit suicide and get out of this world.
OW: When the leaves sprout, the flowers bloom and wither, the time between life and death will flow again. Shouldn’t you also leave prettily like this (looking at the flowers)?
MW: I don’t have anything so colorful to leave behind.
See there? The Old Woman was reminding her that leaves, unlike the constant moon, are transient.
Then at the end of Episode 4, we’re shown Chansung holding a leaf and wondering whether he just dreamed of something or it was real because it happened in a flash, in a split second.
Edited to add this: I thought that was a philosophical question. If something happened in a blink of an eye, would it be considered real or imagined?
But what do y’all think?
If the tree “is” Manwol, then the memories given by the flowers of the tree are Manwol’s memories, no one else’s. The glimpse of MW’s life with the falling leaf- MW was alone, as far as we know, and that memory could only come from MW.
If so, Mago is (if one were to put it unkindly) scamming MW “for her own good.” Or a Mago puts it, opening the door a crack.
“To be honest, I cringed at this scene.”
I am glad I was not the only one… 😬😒. And now that you added that note about IU and ZeZe (I was never a fan of IU so I haven’t looked into her past)… that’s even more disturbing. The links with the tree… it’s too obvious to be coincidental? The only drama I have watched of the Hong Sisters is Hwayugi and I never finished it. They do zany and try to satirize everything but I feel they sometimes push the envelope too far for my comfort. Now that I have read that article about ZeZe, it’s added “ick” to the burgeoning romance on HDL. I always feel like I am looking into their (Hong Sisters) minds with their dramas. They play out their fantasies for everyone to see and hide fetishes and masquerade them in an OtherVerse to make it less “real” and more appealing and acceptable to the general public. It’s okay coz it’s not real? And they can play dumb and innocent when you accuse them of taking it too far. What us? It’s art? It’s your perception of it that’s wrong? You’re the one with the dirty mind? We just painted the picture. Artistic license is their defense. 🙄
The memories left by the tree flowers on Chansung are definitely Manwol’s. But since Ma Goshin bestowed them on Chansung, he may or may not misconstrue them.
Yes, the Old Woman might be scamming MW. MW said something to that effect in Ep 3? 4? I’m giving the Old Woman a break here.
To me she’s much kinder than the interfering Red Lady in Goblin. That lady/grandma always struck me as shady.
See?
I didn’t want to go there. I avoided mentioning about IU’s past because I’ve tried to separate the actor’s life from the actor’s work. Like I try to separate my professional work from this blog….
I followed the Zeze controversy from the start with an impartial eye. I didn’t listen to her songs or watch her movies. But I was interested to see how things would pan out.
However, since @growing_beautifully asked me how I felt about that scene, I answered her truthfully.
To a certain degree, I can close (or squeeze shut) my eyes to that controversy about Zeze and the whole tree “climb me up” refrain. After all, in the kdrama, the meeting between the child Chansung and the almost 1000 year old Manwol lasted less than a minute. And as far as I know, I’m the only one who raised this point.
I’m inclined to think that the Hong sisters alluded to IU’s controversy in their usual “Gotcha! You didn’t see that, did you?” The public didn’t notice it. 🤔So my take here is, knetz’s memory is pretty bad and … temporary. An actor creates a hit and they forgive him/her of the murky past. (Cough cough: Song Hye Kyo and Descendants of the Sun, Lee ByunHo and Mr Sunshine)
But when you think about this: this is precisely the topic of this kdrama: How long are you going to hold a grudge against a past wrong? When can you forgive and move on?
🙂
“as far as I know, I’m the only one who raised this point.”
Probably because it’s too icky to go there. And like you said, it was a “blink and you’ll miss it moment”. 🙂
I was annoyed by the sound of Manwol popping her bubblegum (or whatever). I always associated that snapping sound with hookers. (Don’t ask me why/You don’t want to know why. lol.)
The netting on her hat bugged me, too. I didn’t get why, since I’ve worn hats with netting just like that. I only remembered the brouhaha over Zeze’s fishnet stockings later on. (Look it up. IU Zeze fishnet stockings.)
I also didn’t like the way the kid smiled at a stranger (I always told kids to beware of strangers) and the way she sized him up. It was like a wolf looking at its prey.
But when I remembered the tree reference (in the song, the young boy was told to CLIMB on her/tree), it dawned on me what I was looking at.
The scene happened so quickly. I had to play it back a few times to make sense of my aversion.
That’s why I decided that the title of this particular blog post would be “Grudge-bearing tree”. We’ve plenty of “grudges” to go around and I wanted to throw shade. (Get it?)
Oh well…moving on.
Urgh…the fishnet stockings…on a boy…and that tree on the album cover is a carbon copy of the dead tree in HDL. This is what I don’t like about Hong Sisters. They don’t seem to know where to draw the line. There was talk that IU was the only person they wanted to play MW (PD was insistent that it had to be her as well). So all these breadcrumbs are deliberate on their part. IU plays the cougar well. 😒
I didn’t like how IU made a cover of DKS’s farewell song either. Conveniently posted on her YouTube/Instagram in time for HDL, knowing full well that it was trending worldwide and she would get a boost in popularity riding on his coat tails. She ruined the song. Her version was this breathy sexualized rendition in full make up (red lips) 😬😒… It was just… sending all the wrong signals (especially if you’ve seen the original)
Her brutalized version https://youtu.be/TvRgiJnQifs (complete with camera stare at the end with feigned innocence 🙄)
The leaf
It felt that Chan Sung considered that split second when Man Wol thought of sitting with him to hear his dream, was related to the leaf he saw in his dream. He saw the leaf falling but not reaching Man Wol, and instead he awakens to find it on him.
If a leaf was a split second from Man Wol’s past, falling from her time into his, then it was a sign of the merging of her time with his, the bringing of her past into his present dreams
It occurred to me btw that it was a good gift that Ma Go gave to CS, since it gave him data about MW that she’d never have shared voluntarily.
I noticed that CS carried that leaf with him and took it out almost like a talisman in Room 13 and tucks it in next to his heart in his jacket. Since leaf was part of Man Wol’s Tree (part of her 2nd self), keeping it close to him was like being beside her to be protected by her.
While I did read a little of the controversy of IU’s song, I did not think of it when I asked my question. If the Hong Sisters were setting up that scene with boy CS and MW in the car to reference that controversy, I find it quite in inexplicably bad taste and so unnecessary.
And now that the boy has grown into a man, MW is demanding that they sleep together in order for her to check on his dreams, seems a follow up of that first encounter, and does not make it alright. Also, it’s quite ridiculous because just watching him sleep cannot give her access to his dreams.
Good points, @GB! I like the idea that the leaf is his talisman. I noticed that he began wearing the company pin in Episode 4, but I think the leaf is a better amulet or lucky charm.
Yes, the dreams from Ma Gosin were providential — or literally, heaven-sent. lol. I just hope that he doesn’t end up misinterpreting what he sees in them, like assume that MW was head-over-heels in love with the Captain till the very end. Chansung only got a partial memory of her past, and it’s mostly the romantic, happy, smiling, bright side of MW. He should also see the ugly side of her past, too, to understand her fully. Just like the Blind Ghost finally remember the whole dreadful past, including the hit-and-run accident, and not just her romanticized memories of the baker helping her pick bread.
I think that’s why MW told CS to shut up and punished him by making him host the ghosts.
Anyway, let me consolidate my thoughts on the leaf then. I replied to @flying_tool’s comment earlier but I realized I should have written it on the blog as an addendum so I’m not over the place. Oh well….
If I knew about the IU song controversy, then I’m sure the Hong sisters did. 🙂 It was a big thing. Having worked in the industry, the Hong sisters are known to comment about K-entertainment in their dramas, and they deplore the unduly harsh criticisms directed at the entertainers. I don’t get the sense that they were throwing IU under the bus. To me, they were more making light of it, as if to say that all that public hue-and-cry about pedophilia was overblown, and that if knetz were shown a different interpretation of the whole affair they wouldn’t even see anything wrong with it. Just like how viewers totally missed that sexually suggestive scene when MW rolled down the window and exchanged knowing smiles with a kid.
I think the Hong sisters were sympathetic toward IU that’s why they chose her for the project. They knew a hit drama would rehab her reputation … or at the very least, make people forget about that whole contretemps in 2015.
There’s this quote from their interview when they did Best Love (2011).
“A celebrity’s image is consumed by the public, but as a public figure, he cannot avoid receiving criticisms when he breaks a law or an ethical code. But instead of seeing them as people who just hold a certain occupation, there are some people who forget to see them as fellow human beings. Even if they don’t write negative online comments about them, they perceive them as people who can be treated as they wish.”
source: https://blue1004.wordpress.com/2011/06/27/interview-with-the-hong-sisters/
Anyway, I just put this out there so you and others can have an additional context or layer from which to understand the drama. Ignore it if it doesn’t help. 🙂 When you think about this, Manwol is more than 1000 years old, and, even at 30 years old (?) CS is a relative baby compared to her. lol. But of course, we don’t see any pedophilia or (male) Lolita-complex themes in this story even when she orders that they sleep together or that he dresses up in the way SHE dictates, because of the way the kdrama is presented as a horror/romcom.
WARNING – don’t read if you don’t want to ruin your continued viewing experience of HDL. This is just one opinion. My children tell me I take things far too seriously and that I should take a chill pill. 😬
“A celebrity’s image is consumed by the public, but as a public figure, he cannot avoid receiving criticisms when he breaks a law or an ethical code. But instead of seeing them as people who just hold a certain occupation, there are some people who forget to see them as fellow human beings. Even if they don’t write negative online comments about them, they perceive them as people who can be treated as they wish.”
But they are not just a normal person who holds a certain occupation? They are a public figure? It’s a privilege? That statement is akin to saying, “I want the right to be famous and enjoy all the benefits but none of the responsibilities”? I try to drum this concept on a smaller scale to my teenage children all the time. Being an adult is not all fun and games. You can’t just want all the privileges and rights of adulthood but own none of the responsibilities. There are plenty of adults in this world who are like that. Public figures have responsibilities that extend beyond the normal. They are expected to behave better than most. It comes at a price. You are not supposed to have your cake and eat it. It’s a privilege. Your actions influences countless others. The message you send out sheds light on what you think is okay and in turn shapes the minds of those who listen to your music. Don’t hide behind your artistic licence. If you really took your responsibilities seriously you would’ve taken steps to remove the whole album from sales rather than profit from the publicity. Ironically the album was named “Chat-shire”. Lewis Carroll. Cheshire…cat. 🙄
As for the Hong Sisters. Well if they knew about this controversy and chose her to star in it and wrote this story around her…a grown woman who pays for the services of a child (she abuses her power over the dad, really he had no choice at all in the matter, so he sells his child 😢 as payment), then she grooms him and then she “beds” him. What does that say about them? But it’s all about forgiveness and not harbouring grudges, they say. Yeah but they could’ve written a different story to highlight that without all the elements of paedophilia in there or obvious references to the ZeZe controversy.
“But of course, we don’t see any pedophilia or (male) Lolita-complex themes in this story even when she orders that they sleep together or that he dresses up in the way SHE dictates, because of the way the kdrama is presented as a horror/romcom.”
But of course. It is art after all and most of the general public would just skim the surface of it and won’t think that far. I asked my teenage daughter what she thought of IU and her reply said it all, “She’s SOOOO pretty”. See, surface. Nothing deeper. 🙂
😂 Go, Go, Go @nrllee!!
You better hang around here when IU’s fan club come over and wage war. I’ll try to block them but you deal with the ones that get through my spamblock. 👌
I think with quote I selected, the Hong sister’s whole point was to be kinder. Don’t join in on the hate wagon. Try not to flog a dying horse. And so on. It was an appeal for more civility online. It wasn’t a call to abrogate personal responsibility or to overlook punishment.
You have to admit that with the Internet, there are more keyboard warriors than peacemakers. And especially in SKorea (well, I’m not sure about other Asian countries) where their celebrities live and die by their popularity, and there’s more societal pressure for conformity and homogeneity, to be ostracized online can have a major impact on mental, emotional and physical well-being of an individual that may not be commensurate to the original misdemeanor committed.
I personally was surprised how obsessed and connected people were with social media gossip and commentaries until I stayed in Seoul. I thought the doomsday scenarios were only in the imagination of kdrama writers. Lol.
As for the Hong sisters’ characters, they’re above the age of consent. And except for the annual flowers, they didn’t have any contact so she can’t be accused of grooming him.
As for his consent, that was the point I raised earlier. I said his name meant “agreement” because he had to agree to work for her. She pursued, yes, but she allowed him to walk away. In fact, in Ep 3, when he finally agreed to work for her, she was caught off guard. She was prepared for a few more rejections. She didn’t expect him to give in that easily.
Later, he’d claim that it was HIS choice to work there and make his life “complicated”. In effect, he was absolving her of any culpability.
🙂 And you know me, if there are credible instances of pedophilia and Lolita-complex in the story, I would sound the alarm. I was the one who raised this whole Zeze thing, anyway.
As for artistic license, this is not the time for me to discuss that in depth. For now, it suffices to say that if I were a militant Christian, I would be utterly enraged by all the stupid things these know-nothing Kdrama writers have been writing about demons, sin, free will, angels, priests, nuns, exorcism, God, saints, and my faith. These Buddhist/Confucian/shaman/agnostic/atheist/whatever writers should go down on their knees and thank god that I’m a tolerant Christian and I allowed them “artistic license” to malign my religion. 🤪
“As for artistic license, this is not the time for me to discuss that in depth. For now, it suffices to say that if I were a militant Christian, I would be utterly enraged by all the stupid things these know-nothing Kdrama writers have been writing about demons, sin, free will, angels, priests, nuns, exorcism, God, saints, and my faith. These Buddhist/Confucian/shaman/agnostic/atheist/whatever writers should go down on their knees and thank god that I’m a tolerant Christian and I allowed them “artistic license” to malign my religion.”
Which is why I didn’t watch ALML. I couldn’t stomach it. 😒
“You better hang around here when IU’s fan club come over and wage war. I’ll try to block them but you deal with the ones that get through my spamblock. 👌”
Wait…so this ISN’T a safe space? 😂. They can have their points of views and I can have mine. I know they will defend her to the end. But I will stand my ground or choose to walk away if I’ve had enough of fighting. I read enough of delusional DKS fan girls to know what I am up against. 🙂
“I think with quote I selected, the Hong sister’s whole point was to be kinder. Don’t join in on the hate wagon. Try not to flog a dying horse. And so on. It was an appeal for more civility online. It wasn’t a call to abrogate personal responsibility or to overlook punishment.”
Yeah. Point taken. 🙂
Ok. Ok. I m processing all the new information abt IU’s song and the zeze angle.
For someone unaware of the controversy when I watched the scene it came across as nothing special. Except the wide grin of the child. I just let it pass thinking the child actor couldn’t portray PD’s ideas properly. No! strike that. It is PD’s fault for not getting it right. Maybe it would have worked if he was shown intrigued by her car and her riches.
Still reading.
What I think:
That it’s a good thing I always get several episodes ahead of time before I read your articles!
I really enjoyed the twist where you learn who the famous captain is.
Only, you can already guess what emotion he might trigger in Man Wol.
I would have been spoilt! Even if it’s a hypothetical spoil.
Being a naive spectator who doesn’t over-analyze what he sees has one advantage: the twists and turns always surprise!
😀