Jasminsssiii delurked to pose this question request:
Can’t wait for your thoughts regarding Chan Sung’s possible death hmmm
Let me see now.
I’m going to skim through this because it’s just one of my “theories” and I noticed that none of the other posters have even seen it. I don’t want to be accused of spreading delusions.
Who me?
1. The death lily in Episode 1
Ma Go already gave his flower to him on his birthday. But his father blocked Ma Go. Good job, dad!
Nice try, Ma Go. Deaths are also birthdays because a person is born in the afterlife.
Then, a police car, not an ambulance, whizzed past them. It was heading for the crime site where the body of the murdered police was found. Nice segue!
2. The death lily again in Episode 4
Chansung met Ma Go on board the train and he wanted to buy a lily. What did Ma Go say? She refused, “Nope! You’ve already received your flower.”
That should set warning bells. He’s already received HIS death flower. But he isn’t dead yet because of his good deed, just like Manwol isn’t dead yet because of her bad deeds. lol.
They both have to work through their “karma” of good and bad deeds in this life before they die. Hmmm… does this mean when he completes his mission of transforming her and helping her rid herself of grudges, he also dies? I didn’t think about that angle. It’ll be similar to a “perfect all-kill” in the kpop entertainment world. lol. Oh well.
His life is prolonged (or his death is delayed) because of his action at the start. Now, he’s going to grow up. Ma Go told him back then, “You’re suffering so much in your youth because you’ll gain many great blessings in the future. You’re just using up all your great misfortune now.”
3. Mangol called him weak-hearted.
Oh, come on now, Hong sisters!! You didn’t think people would miss that wordplay, right?
Chansung is metaphorically weak-hearted, meaning scaredy-cat.
But it’s also possible that he’s physically weak-hearted, i.e., he has a weak heart. I wouldn’t be surprised if doctors were to check on him and they’d find out that he has some sort of undiagnosed heart ailment.
Manwol keeps mentioning that he’s a weak human, and the viewers take her words for granted. But many a truth is said in jest. Just because she says something mockingly, sarcastically, snidely — or in a twisted way — doesn’t mean that her words cannot be taken as the literal truth, too. 🙂
4. He clutched his chest here.
From Ep 7.
He brushed it off saying, “it didn’t really hurt.” The bellhop said to be careful because it carried curses, but I think he should be careful of getting punched in the chest because he’s weak-hearted.
EDITED: He clutched his chest here, too, after running to stop Ma Go #4 from taking away the Escapee Ghost. It hit him hard, “in the feels” as they stay, that Ma Go #4 can be that merciless.
From Ep 7.
5. He clutched his chest here again. (Ep 8)
Too many chest-clutching. How many times can he sustain a hit before he gets “scared” to death? He’s only human.
6. When Manwol asked, “Will he come, too?” Ma Go could only frown and look sadly at her. All this time, the discussion had been on Chansung NOT coming. But I forgot to consider that his own demise is the last POSSIBLE reason he can’t come with her. Even if he wants to, he can’t go with her.
That’s the problem with Ma Go. She talks like a fortune-teller.
She says things cryptically and her meaning MUST be interpreted in a gazillion ways. If the viewers stick to just the popular opinions, then they miss exploring the other possible meanings and implications of Ma Go’s words.
Lol. But this is *MY* theory and you’re in my bitch blog so do maintain a healthy degree of skepticism, too, while you’re reading. Think of me as a cow farting methane and changing climate.
Moo.
On that note, I do ask my readers not to bore me with sputtering outrage and tiresome drivel when my views and my interpretations don’t coincide with theirs. This is my blog and they can get the hell out anytime.
Aah yes, the lilies. I’d forgotten about them. That alone should have rung the warning bells, but I forgot what they meant.
As a kid, CS was ‘cursed’ in a way. Ma Go must have engineered his father ending up at the hotel. With CS sold into service, he could not get away unless MW let him go, or until he fulfilled the role that Ma Go set out for him.
It’s another ironic but possibly deliberate twist, that Ma Go’s offer of the lily to child CS, led to his asking for a flower that could be plucked, not bought. Just as it was the plucking of the flower from a tree that could not bloom that got him stuck with MW, his getting a flower to bloom on the same tree was supposed to get him unstuck.
Whether unstuck meant that he died immediately or at the end of a normal life span or because he’d lose MW’s protection once she passed over, remains to be seen.
The chest clutch and weak heart comments, I actually noted somewhere, but again it’s buried in the notes LOL. I did think he had some problems in the chest region. I didn’t put it together with actually dying from a weak heart. Strenuous exercise and over-exertion is not a good idea. All his running around to save ghosts or friends is going to be the death of him!! LOL. However again, if MW is still nearby, she could reverse that.
Whether she is and does, and whether she does it out of being others-centred or self-centred also remains to be seen. 😉
Wait up. 🙂 I’m still writing to you about the bellhop. You made good points. I’ll think I’ll combine everything on the blog so it’s easier for me to find what we’ve talked about.
I know, right? His work is going to be the death of him. hahaha. I don’t think this is going to be a sad ending because of the dark humor to the whole story. Twisted, yes, but still funny.
I think the writers are correcting the bad things they did in Hwayugi.
@packmule3, I too keep thinking and saying that despite all the omens, the vibe (if one can ever securely go by that) is just wrong for a tragedy. Even if both MW and CS are to disappear across the Sanzu, I think it will be in a more uplifting and heartwarming way.
Yes, there’s dark comedy, (and quite LOL comedy at that), there’s poignancy, there’re warm hopeful moments and there’s a deity who’s rooting for MW. I’m thinking we’re going to get a few red herrings and twists to dismay us and then have an ok ending.
Some questions keep coming to my mind: Why does Ma Go 1 bother if MW becomes an evil spirit or not. MW seems to be a specially chosen human, given the chance to wield almost god-like powers and to offer a rest stop for souls, in order to pay for her sins. Her existence bothers MG 4 who disapproves of her.
Did Ma Go 1 just want to provide a hotel for souls and roped in MW for the job? Maybe as a counter to MG 4’s heartlessness?
When MG first met MW, it was MW who was looking for the Guest House of the Moon for her fallen comrades. So did there exist a Moon Guest House already? Who was the previous Manager?
Why was it so aptly called the Guest House of the Moon while Man Wol’s name = Full Moon. Was she specially created/born to take on this job of Hotelier of souls? In other words, which came first? Was MW put on earth to run that Guest House, and so was already named for it? Was she as a child, fed the story of a resting place for the dead, so that she’d go and look for it at the right time?
Are the Ma Gos working together towards one great plan or working at cross purposes to each other? (Here’s where the Christian belief in the Plan of God trumps this kind of mythology).
Intriguing.
Oh I recall pointing to CS bending over clutching his chest at ep 8, and jokingly said to my husband that he was reprising his previous role
“Look, it’s Young Gu from Absolute Boyfriend. His wired heart is malfunctioning.”
And I kinda froze a little wondering if the writers might want to take this route.
My husband thinks CS is living on borrowed time since the very beginning, and that once his work at HDL is done, he will pass on. This would be similar like how the previous manager ended his work there but almost “immediately” left for the other side.
Come to think of it we didn’t get to see his story.
I hope that MW and CS get to spend some time tgt in this life and make happy memories together before heading to their next life, much like dog owner and dog.
so your husband and I think alike then.
I said to @nrllee a few days ago that people were so focused on the death of this Captain-schmaptain and his Second Coming (hallelujah!) that they lost sight of the real hero of the story, Chansung.
We should be worrying about Chansung.
But in the next 6 episodes. we’ll have to deal with the exits of the three hotel employees. They’ll all have to go before Manwol does. (“Save the best for last”) My guess is the bellhop will be first to leave. There’s been a steady build-up of his backstory already.
It’s possible that we’re being trolled.
I’d rather not see the death trope used here, but if it happens then at least, we’re not shocked.
To answer some of your questions, I went back to Episode 7.
1. Ma Go 4 to the Grim Reaper: If the ghost is wandering around you should catch it immediately and sent it to the afterlife. Why does it have to rest before it goes? I don’t understand why they made that hotel and left it to a vengeful spirit like JMW.
In Ep 1, MG said, “The Inn of the Moon for the dead seems to have met its new owner.” I understood “new” to mean brand-new or first or recently-appointed owner. She wasn’t a replacement. It was built for her (we saw it being built for her).
2. Re. whether the Ma Gos are working together. They’re working together. Here’s the conversation between MW and the Grim Reaper
MW: It was the MG4 who injured my intern right? The 4th with a black dress.
GR: You shall not number a god. Although the looks are different, there is only one will.
MW: She doesn’t visit as a form that humans want and it’s just vaguely a god’s will. Unfair.
GR: The one that God Ma Go meant to punish is the vengeful ghost who used to be your guest.
MW: If she finds it, will she make it disappear?
GR: The other face of the God Ma Go told me to take her back to rest.
MW: God’s will is always irritatingly confusing.
GR: Being merciful and being merciless are both the same god.
Of course. Most viewers didn’t get this. They’re two sides of the same coin.
If nobody gets punished for a wrong committed because of a “merciful” god, then that “merciful” god is not any different from a merciless god. The victims (like the sister of the Escapee Ghost) demand that god be merciless and mete out punishment, most often the harshest punishment possible. If god is perceived to be merciful to those who deserved to be punished, then victims and society at large get angry at the ineffectual and unfair god. That’s why the sister said, “There’s a god after all,” after she saw the train wreck.
That’s why Manwol was pissed off when she saw the sign “Do your best and God will do the rest.” in the Porno guy’s office. Furious, she said, “If this (wealth, status) is what god gives you after you try your best, then god is overdoing it (or is a bastard, lol).
But what strikes as troubling in the reactions of most viewers to the Escapee Ghost’s story is the moral equivalence. Porn is bad but murder is a heck lot worst. The vengeful ghost killed four? five? people, and that’s why she was extinguished.
However, to me, the MG4 didn’t approve of the whole “rest-stop” idea because she thinks it’s a disaster waiting to happen. The vengeful ghosts when left unsupervised (or supervised by a vengeful human) will wreak havoc on the living. It’s a recipe for disaster.
But if you think that MG4 is bad, then just consider your feelings re. a halfway house for sex offenders.
This is a rough analogy, just think of a halfway house for sex offenders (or “registered citizens”) built in a neighborhood with children, and the halfway house is managed by a registered sex offender, too. Will you oppose it or not?
Of course, you’ll petition that the house be moved somewhere else (“Not in my backyard!”). But where? Will you move the halfway house to a neighborhood with women? with senior citizens? out in the middle of the desert? Remember these sex offenders are people, too. You can’t tell them to vanish.
Those who oppose the halfway house are similar to MaGo4 who oppose the rest-house for vengeful ghosts. Those who believe in giving these sex offenders a second chance will be MaGo1.
MW: The first grandma who wants me to leave colorfully. The fourth grandma who waits for me to turn into a vengeful ghost. Yes, they’re both gods. However, I wonder who’s stronger. First? Fourth?
GR: You should not rank a god.
MW: Sly as a fox. We don’t know their order but there is one will. Whatever happens, I won’t be here.
GR: (pointing one finger)
MW: What is this?
GR: This is my will.
The fact that we only have 6 episodes left makes me worry. How are the Hong Sisters going to wrap up every.single.story? And tie all into the main?
The story line till now seem to focus heavily on the past life and reincarnation (feels like maybe it’s job is to partially draw viewers’ focus away for more upcoming present story twists) and I just want them to wrap it up already by this weekend so that we can focus on the NOW.
Just wondering, if all staff leaves, then wouldn’t HDL be closed for good then *a little sad*
Don’t we still have 8 episodes? We’re only at half-way point.
I don’t know if I want the hotel employees going bye-bye one-by-one or as a group. Leaning towards a group send-off since they aren’t going to see each other anyway after they become reincarnated.
That’s the real bummer about reincarnation. They won’t get to see their loved ones in the afterlife. And there’s no chance they’ll remember each other either after being reincarnated.
What’s the point then?
I meant after this weekend – 6 eps left. So I’m really hoping the writers move the side stories to focus on HDL employees instead.
If the writers set aside around 1-2 episodes per weekend per staff, it’d likely wrap up “nicely” by ep 16.
“I hope that MW and CS get to spend some time tgt in this life and make happy memories together before heading to their next life, much like dog owner and dog.”
But they already are making happy memories together? So I challenge those who think that somehow this process is worth less than the final product (happy ever after). As if somehow their life together only begins when they marry or have children or whatever. All their feelings of jealousy, epiphanies, shared experiences – they are the stuff of memories. So if they do just move on to the afterlife like the dog and owner with no wedding bells, it wouldn’t be premature or wanting. It would be a fitting end.
I really don’t mind if the death trope is used here. Unlike the writer of ALML, Hong sisters are quite willing to use it (sometimes over enthusiastically) with gay abandon. I sometimes think it rather depends on their mood 😂. If they feel particularly premenstrual and angry with the world they would pen an ending to quash all hopes of the usual happy ever after. On the other hand if they are feeling particularly magnanimous, they will go for a gentler ending. They are as temperamental as MW.
Man weol came looking for the Inn of the moon. Means she was aware of such an inn. So maybe there already was an inn and mago was the one who looked after it?!
When mago said she gave him his flower i always thought she meant the blue flower, not the white lilies. Which she left on his chest while he was unconscious.
Mago always gave white lilies to dead souls, after it is confirmed that they are infact dead. She never gave white lilies for people who are still alive like chung sung. At least not until now. I don’t know if she gave him a white lily in a scene that we still did not see and if they would reveal it near the end though.
Chung sung clutching his chest does worry me. He started that after being pushed by the ghost. And he also took a curse. So i don’t know if his days are now numbered sadly.
@nrllee “But they already are making happy memories together?”
Yeap they are!
I would like that the couple get to acknowledge and accept their feelings for each other in this lifetime.
I dont’t need them wedding bells either! If they ride on the car to the afterlife together as an ending, that is ok for me.
I just don’t want the writers to leave this couple (after solving everybody else’s problems) to the very end and add in a reincarnation (something similar like Goblin) – “look! they reincarnated as a brand new pair, less burdened with karma than their previous lives and start a brand new life together!” That kinda ending.
Personally I’m only invested in their current intertwined lives – the NOW.
@kaxx you said:
I was under the impression that it was not the completion of his job as Manager that determined the end of his life, but that in Manager Noh’s case, he was already near his end when he confirmed that he would leave. MW said that she felt bad that she had not let him go earlier. He should actually have been released before he became too old, so that he could live a ‘normal’ life.
For him there was no need of a backstory since he was just going to pass the helm to CS. We only saw that he did have a send off in the car.
However in CS’s case, he is given a task by Ma Go with the attempt to give him that first lily when he was a kid. So it looks like his fate is decided because the deity intervened. He is supposed to get MW on the path to being more alive and blooming so that she would embrace life fully and let go of all her grudges, and not end up as a vengeful ghost when her time came to die. Once he fulfills this role, he may indeed have served his purpose and then die.
As the hotel staff have been a team, quite banded together over the great length of time, (they even have a group cheer!), the most fitting ending will be that they all decide to take the bus or the car together. My only question is whether by that time MW too will be dead and a ghost and CS too, or whether the remaining 2 will have chance to live sans hotel.
“However in CS’s case, he is given a task by Ma Go with the attempt to give him that first lily when he was a kid. So it looks like his fate is decided because the deity intervened. He is supposed to get MW on the path to being more alive and blooming so that she would embrace life fully and let go of all her grudges, and not end up as a vengeful ghost when her time came to die. Once he fulfills this role, he may indeed have served his purpose and then die.
As the hotel staff have been a team, quite banded together over the great length of time, (they even have a group cheer!), the most fitting ending will be that they all decide to take the bus or the car together. My only question is whether by that time MW too will be dead and a ghost and CS too, or whether the remaining 2 will have chance to live sans hotel.”
This. I always felt that just as MW “gifted” CS with the ability to see ghosts, MaGo “gifted” MW back in the desert (?) with amnesia (?), giving her a second chance. In the vain hope that by forgetting she would “live” again and regain her “sweetness”. Instead, MW persists in being the walking dead and growing taciturn through the years. Enter CS who helps her “remember” and face her demons, learning to “deal” with them “correctly” this time round with his help. I feel like MW should’ve passed long ago. She’s over 1000 years old. What’s left for her to do on this earth once her demons are dealt with? Nothing I hope. She has denied herself nothing materially all these years. There should be nothing left “unfulfilled” for her to linger on as a ghost (vengeful or not)? CS will fill her empty cup to the brim and she will leave this life with no regrets. As for CS. One might suppose he’s lived a terribly unfulfilled life because he seems to be running around helping her find hers. But honestly, isn’t that the best life to live? To give of yourself solely for the betterment of another? To pour out your whole life like a living sacrifice for others? That’s a life well lived. He is not to be pitied. He is to be lauded. Probably why I get so annoyed when people keep talking about how wonderful Captain Firefly is and how they want him reincarnated as CS. Captain Firefly would not make it back as CS. Not even close. I would be happy if MW and CS finished this life like the dog and the master. Together. Quietly with little ceremony and pomp.
@nrllee From the looks of things, MW never actually forgot. At least, she never had amnesia. Since she just wouldn’t make peace with herself, Ma Go sent CS.
I agree that CS, being the person that he is, has quite perfectly fulfilled his life as well. At least I hope he thinks so. He’s been recognised by Forbes, served royalty, had unique experiences at de la Luna and fallen in love. He’s had the success in getting MW starting to bloom, he’s both served and saved her. Up to this point he has kept to his principles, fulfilled his role and done what best satisfies a generous, honest soul like himself. Once he finds her, he can actually go in peace LOL.
Of course the show is not going to make it that easy, but that’s not the point we’re making!
I noticed the heart clutching too, and wondered about it on another thread – what did the grudge or curse actually do him? Had it weakened his physical heart?
CS is compassionate but he is far from weak-hearted in the cowardly sense of the word. So I agree, there is something likely wrong with his physical heart.
Just a general shout out to all about what a pleasure it’s been to read this interesting thread.
The bottle of magic potion Mago 2 gave CS, which he chugged without even asking what it was, was supposedly a super energizing potion. Mago 2 seems to want CS in play with MW. When Mago 2 gave CS the magic pill, CS once again moved to immediately take the pill…which Mago 2 stopped.
@Barbrey, I’m so pleased that you’re happy reading us!!! LOL. Yes, isn’t it great to just bitch about the smallest little detail and tantalize ourselves. I just need more hours to my day so that I can re-watch slowly most of the episodes to find the things I missed.
@Flying Tool, yes, first time MG 2 didn’t bat an eye when CS took it on trust that the potion was good for him, and swallowed it all without a doubt. However, this time, the idea behind giving him the ‘ghost-un-seeing’med was from MW and not Ma Go’s idea. So she was reluctant to let him take it, especially before he had thought it through carefully.
I noticed that when he spoke his thoughts aloud, MG was listening carefully and approved his rationale for not taking the med.