A number of us didn’t understand MaGo2’s conversation with Chansung in Episode 9 so it’s good to trace back to Episode 4 where this whole idea that Chansung is a pushover started. I’ll use the Viki subs and cross-check with Kissasian subs.
From Episode 4:
Manwol berates Chansung for allowing himself to be duped by the Blind Ghost. She calls he’s a pushover.
MW: Hey, why do you do things that don’t make money? You’re a sucker. That’s your weakness. That ghost is using you and you fell for it.
CS: (agreeing) I know. If I’d been tough and stood firm, I wouldn’t have come here. I’m so sorry that I’m the weak human who pleases you.
He says this tongue in cheek. He’s letting her that she’s scolding him for being naïve and gullible when she herself had taken advantage of his good nature and got him to work for her. @growing_beautifully calls her blind and hypocritical. I think she’s very self-centered but, ironically enough, lacking in self-awareness.
Manwol, you ARE so just like the Blind Ghost! Pot, meet kettle.
On the other hand, even this early in their relationship, Chansung is already aware that Manwol likes him because he’s a pushover. When he says that he’s a “weak” human, he doesn’t mean physically. He means that he’s a “softie.” Manwol likes him that way, so she can have her own way.
MW: Are you being sarcastic?
CS: It’s my fate.
MW: If your twisted fate brought you, I’m not sorry to have dragged you in.
Kissasian subbed it as, “I don’t regret bringing you in and complicating your life.” But I think both subs need a bit of cattiness. Meow!
Since I’m a bitch like Manwol, let me word it this way: “Tough luck, boy! I’m sorrynotsorry for dragging you here and screwing up your career, life, fate, whatever.” Manwol plopped back on the couch, I would have yawned.
“Zero fucks cares given!”
CS: Is that what you did? Let’s say it was a twist of fate. It might be that you didn’t drag me in but that I could have pushed myself in the direction I cared about.
My interpretation here is that Chansung is asserting that it’s his decision to come work at the hospital and de-emphasizing her role in his sudden change of life plans. He’s saying, “Wait, what?! Did you really think you brought me here? Hey, people screw up their lives all the time. Perhaps you didn’t drag me here and I came here on my own.” He’s saying that he isn’t a pushover. He’s a cool guy who makes his own decision. #coolguy
Then, he offers her a glass of water to drink because she had too much alcohol. He also offers to bring him break from a famous bakery frequented by the chubby comedian that she likes so much.
MW: (suspiciously) Why are you being nice? You’re making me nervous. Did you give me poison by chance?
She gets annoyed that he’s “spoiling” her. She’s unaware that Chansung meet with MG 1 on the metro and MG 1 told him to take care of the “wayward” tree she had planted. “You should look after it for me.”
Manwol continues to protest the cheesy, cringe-worthy things he offers to do for her.
CS: I see I’m annoying you. You said that no matter what I did, you couldn’t care less (meaning, she’d be indifferent). I guess that’s not the case.
He then exits the room without taking his leave. He gets the last word in and Manwol doesn’t like. She’s used to her manager formally bowing before her but Chansung doesn’t. He’s a cool guy. #coolguy
MW: That’s it! (chasing after him) Hey! Hey! Gu Chansung! You! Stop it! Don’t come here anymore.
He doesn’t get intimidated. He tells her that he has nowhere to go. His reputation is shot after he quit his last hotel. She reminds him that he’s only the third runner-up and there were two other candidates before him. But he parries and says he’s the best match.
Now, I’m rewording the subs to fit my understanding of the now.
CS: Oh, those first and second choices? What good is it to have a manager who’s iron-willed and strong-minded? A manager should, in fact, be a pushover so he can be an easy victim for the ghosts. Someone like me. Someone who can release the ghosts’ grudges. I’m the zeroth pick.
He makes a zero sign with his thumb and pointer finger. But, at the same time, he creates an “okay” sign. Meaning, he’s the perfect man for the job. It’s another cheesy thing to do and it bugs her more.
MW: Go, Chansung! If you keep doing this (meaning, being cheesy), I’ll really hate you.
CS: Because I didn’t bother you, you liked me. When I bother you, you don’t like me. The latter is better. Then, I’ll escort guests out and check them in.
Meaning, when he goes along with her plans, and doesn’t obstructs her, she likes him. But when he contests her, gets in her way or thwarts her plans, she doesn’t like him.
To me, there’s nothing wrong with this disposition. It’s a given fact that people don’t like others disagreeing with them. To Chansung, he takes advantage of Manwol’s contrarian disposition to rile her up. He’s teasing her when he claims to like the second option better.
He tells her that he actually prefers her disliking him (i.e., being prickly, spiteful, and petty with him). Thus, he’ll continue to bother her (i.e., provoke, disturb, frustrate and basically, getting in her way). Then, he tells her that he’s got work to do so he leaves her there staring at his back. She says, “He keeps provoking me. Saying that leaves have sprouted, he sees ME as a pushover.”
At this point, Chansung exudes confidence and coolness. #coolguy He can walk away from her and leave her in a tizzy.
From Episode 8:
In Episode 8, Chansung ruins Manwol’s plans to hurt Mira. He comes rushing to stop her. She starts to walk away and Chansung grabs her arm to stop her.
MW: Thank you, Gu Chansung. Because of you I met her. And because of you, too, I found a good way (to get rid of her). And now, I feel a little bit better.
She flashes him the picture of Mira with her family at the amusement park. She’s so cold. Just as cold as…?? Take a guess now.
The Captain.
lol. Remember that scene when the Captain thanked Manwol in prison? He was thanking her with that same tone. “Thanks to you I was able to achieve something big. Leading me to that place, too, and gaining some time, it’s all thanks to you.”
That’s why Manwol’s expressing her bitter gratitude to Gu Chansung’s assistance is a déjà vu.
CS: Don’t do this.
MW: I’ve already done everything.
She means it’s too late to stop her. She’s done it already. BTW, this is Chansung’s biggest fear, that he’ll be unable to stop her from self-destructing.
MW: (looking at the photo) This is different from the cute imaginary person made by Bok Hui. Because I made this, it’s a curse.
CS: Leave her alone.
MW: Is it disgusting? Then run away, Gu Chansung. I’ll let you go.
CS: I won’t leave. Please protect me.
Then, as Manwol watches Chansung hugging the child and taking the curse upon himself, she realizes what she has pushed him to do. Since he’s naturally a pushover (or weak-hearted), of course, he’ll do the noble/idiotic move and sacrifice himself. In her desire to seek revenge, she harms him mortally.
On a side note: this should be another déjà vu. We’ve seen her behave like this. A thousand years ago, in her desire to avenge Yeonwoo’s death, she too set off to kill the Captain.
To me, the three major differences between Chansung’s moment and the Captain’s, are:
A) she didn’t anticipate Chansung to move in and step up for Mira. In contrast, she had been lying in wait for the Captain to appear in the bridal chamber.
B) she stopped her attack and chose to save Chansung, rather than proceed with her vengeance. She killed Captain — or at least she leaped in the air to smite him with her sword.
C) she didn’t want Chansung to be collateral damage in her revenge against Mira. Her target was specific and limited to one person. She didn’t want Chansung to be a casualty of her curse. When she avenged Yeonwoo’s death, she killed a lot more than just the Captain. Hence, Ma Go’s question, “Who else did you kill for the dead?”
Then, as Chansung falls to the ground, she replays his words in her mind.
CS: Whatever you try to do, remember this. If this is your fence or your jail, I’ll be here.
MW: You aren’t scared?
CS: I have you.
Chansung’s words are also vastly different from the Captain’s. On their last night together at the lakeshore, the Captain told her, “I guess there’s no reason for me to come back here again. If a good drinking buddy disappears, you’ll miss him.”
The Captain’s parting words were resigned to their end. He was finished with her. He was done. In contrast, Chansung’s words are steadfast. He’ll be there for her till the end.
Now, seeing Chansung laying on the ground, Manwol aborts her plan to harm Mira. She lets Mira go home in a cab with the Yuna, while she tends to Chansung in her drawing room. She burns Mira’s happy photograph and tells the unconscious Chansung, “Will everything be all right now? Everything is ruined because of you.”
At first, it’s seems like she’s speaking in paradox again. How can something be alright and ruined at the same time?
But she’s right. Everything is alright: Mira isn’t harmed. He protected Manwol from becoming an evil ghost. Ma Go 1 will be pleased with the outcome, and Manwol will have a beautiful send-off. Everything is alright because he stopped her and ruined her plan of revenge. #coolguy
Manwol then decides to leave him.
MW: This place, whether it’s a fence or a prison to me, what I have is hell. Experiencing hell together isn’t better. Farewell, Gu Chansung.
Now, if you think this is a cheesy line, think of the movie Titanic. (lol. I refuse to watch it though so I’m guessing the ending here.)
Leonardo di Caprio probably didn’t want to ride the last boat out with Kate Winslet. He wanted Kate to get on and save herself, while he sank with the boat. That’s what cool guys do. I wouldn’t be shocked if the Hong sisters were to recast the Captain in good light and portray him saving Kate…errr…Manwol.
This is for your own good, Manwol! Trust me! A thousand years from now, you’ll thank me for this. /sarc
There we have the backstory of the conversation between Ma Go 3 and Chansung in Episode 9. Let’s proceed to Episode 9’s conversation then.
From Episode 9:
MG3: Are you here to look for the Hotel del Luna?
CS: You already know? That the hotel moved? Then you must know where they moved to.
MG3: So what if I know? Are you going to go look for it? You almost died because of Jang Man Wol. I heard you embraced a very evil curse. If that curse hadn’t been disentangled, your spirit would have been seriously hurt.
The viki subs were ambiguous here. I’m not sure whether it had something to do with the script itself. That is, Ma Go 3 was skirting around the issue.
But I’ll state it clearly. The fact is Chansung got wounded mortally by Manwol’s ginormous and deep-seated grudge. The thousand years didn’t diminish or weaken her fury. That’s THE scary part here. She was still enraged with Mira after a millennium.
The only reason that Chansung was freed from the curse was because Manwol finally RESOLVED her grudge. Seeing Chansung wounded, she saw the impact of her curse on a person she cared about. Hence, she burned the happy photograph of Mira. Along with the photo, she was burning her grudge.
It’s a “beautiful fire” just like when the Grandma burned her stash of her inner secret and grudge. (BTW, what’s the Grandma’s grudge? Her grudge is that she was forced to marry somebody she didn’t know and didn’t love. She was deprived of her secret FANTASY to marry for love, just like in the movies.)
I find it interesting that while the Grandma needed a bonfire to rid herself of her delusional spirit, Manwol needed only a smaller fire to get rid of her whole world of hurt.
See the connection with the “ghost” story. As I said, none of the ghost stories are random or arbitrary. They not only move the plot forward, but they also drive a point home. So to give them a cursory glance is to miss the “theme” of the episode.
To continue.
CS: Jang Manwol protected me. I’m safe.
MG3: JMW is the one who’s safe thanks to you. You protected her. My Unnie brought in a good person. So just keep doing well.
CS: Was that the purpose of me going to that hotel? So that if something terrible related to her past comes, I would block it so that she can let it go peacefully?
I find this interesting. Both Chansung and Manwol wondered what Chansung’s purpose in her life was.
In Episode 8, Manwol believed, “You just want me to leave Mira alone. That’s why you went as far as having GCS involved between us.” MG 1 then warned her not to harm Mira and she continued, “So that I can without a struggle, as per the will of the god’s gentle face.”
At first sight of Mira, she thought Chansung was meant to protect Mira hence she pushed Mira into the water and told him to go and rescue her. She treated Chansung like a dog.
“Here, nice doggy, fetch that stick!”
Then she was warned not to harm Mira so she could fulfill Ma Go 1’s plan to send her off beautifully. Chansung was there to ensure that Ma Go’s plan happened.
But while she already had a clear idea of Chansung’s role in her life, Chansung is still figuring it out with the herbalist, Ma Go 3.
He was still wondering whether he’s a poison or a remedy for Manwol. lol. Remember that whole conversation back in Episode 6? Ma Go 3 told Ma Go 1, “You sent him there because you thought he was the remedy. But he might turn out to be poison.”
Now, Chansung doesn’t know if he’s a remedy or a poison for Manwol. From the way Manwol abandoned him, it would seem as if he was toxic for her.
This is Manwol running away from Chansung. I’d be pissed off if I were the shadow.
MG3: Why are you so angry after doing well at what you’re assigned to? Because the JMW you saw in your dreams is pitiful?
CS: Yes, she’s pitiful. It makes me mad that I’m being praised on blocking well and not taking her side. That girl threw me away because I’m in her way. Are you telling me to continue to keep being in her way?
He’s protesting. He knows that he was sent to override MW’s bad decision and to protect her from giving way to her grudges. She cannot damage her prospects of a beautiful send-off. However, obstructing her also means NOT taking her side. And he does NOT like going against her because
A) she’s really a pitiful creature in his eyes, (Remember, he’s said, “I really can’t understand. The person I saw in my dreams was just only a woman in love.”)
B) he made her angry and so she dismissed him. In other words, he’s abandoned by Manwol for doing his job perfectly.
C) well, duhhh. Didn’t he promise that “Whether it’s a fence or a prison, I’ll be there”? That’s mean he IS taking her side.
At this time, he doesn’t yet understand that Manwol isn’t abandoning him as much as she’s distancing herself from him. Manwol doesn’t want him to suffer more from her curse, too, so she relocates herself (just like the Spirit of the Well) far from him. She wants him in a safe place.
And do you remember what Ma Go 1 said in Episode 6? “Their fates from a distant past have met. He would have to take care of her so she suffers less.” Evidently, it works both ways. As her fate from her distant past comes nearer, SHE, too, has to take good care of him so he suffers less.
It goes for her, too.
To continue.
MG2: It’s cool when you’re taking her side. And being in the way is uncool. The role of being cool and holding her, consoling her…anyone would want to do that role. The role of holding her back and hanging onto her and becoming uncool is something only a good person can do.
What MG2 means is that it’s easy to be a “cool” person. All Chansung needs to do is be a pushover. He has to side with Manwol in whatever she does, give in to whatever she wants and go along with whatever she plans, regardless of whether she’s right or wrong. A cool person who’ll hold and console her if she can’t get what she wants.
To be uncool, however, means to hold her back and prevent her from doing something bad, like stealing, overspending, overdrinking, overindulging, avenging a grudge.
Thus, only a good person can be uncool. He won’t succumb to pressures from Manwol to do as she pleases.
lol. Think of a mom being accused by a son of being “uncool” because she won’t let him drink-and-drive.
But remember, all along, Chansung has been obstructing her. He’s been “uncool” all this time, like when he returned the black credit card to its owners, the unused cars in the garage to the dealers, the yacht back to Norway, and, her latest attempt: that evil curse for Mira. He “returned” that one, too, to its sender, Manwol. lol.
See that? He’s been obstructing her with such swag, that he’s actually “cool” being uncool.
CS: Don’t think of me too greatly. I’m not that good of a person where you can hand me anyone to take care of.
Here, the Kissasian sub makes more sense. “Don’t overestimate me. I don’t want to take the role that nobody wants. I’m not such a good person.”
To me, he’s saying that the gods shouldn’t count on him to be a do-gooder and Manwol’s naysayer. He’s also predicting that there’ll come a time when he’ll want to give in to Manwol, indulge her, and be her yes-man. There’ll come a time when he’ll “uncool-ly” hold her back because he’s “coolly” consoling her.
MG3: Is that so? Then give it up. You can go ahead and eat this.
CS: What’s this?
MG3: That medicine will close the sixth sense you have. You won’t see the dead souls or Del Luna anymore.
CS: Are you saying I’ll stop being able to see all this?
MG3: That woman abandoned you anyways. It’s right to give you a chance to discard her as well. (he looked at her) At times, the god is fair.
CS: I came here to find a way to find her. You’re giving me a way to never find her.
Although he’s mad that she dismissed and abandoned him, he still isn’t going to give up on her. At this point, he’s unaware that Ma Go is acting on Manwol’s bidding. Manwol requested Ma Go to give him the medicine so he could be free of her. Note: Manwol told the Bartender that she left Chansung a “clear notice of dismissal and a severance pay.” The severance pay is the Baekdu painting. The medicine is the “notice” of dismissal because it terminates his ability to “notice” ghosts. lol.
MG3: The result isn’t up to God, but up to the human. It’s quite simple, huh?
CS: Thank you for giving me a chance. (opening the box)
MG3: Wait. Are you going to eat it right now? Without even thinking about it?
Ma Go 3 really has no intention of him drinking the medicine. But I like that Chansung called her bluff that the “result” was entirely up to humans. Of course, the gods have an interest in the end-result and they’ll nudge humans to do the right course of action.
CS: Did you think I would think about it and not eat it? Because I’m a good person? As I told you, I’m not that great of a person who’ll take an uncool role. The only thing that makes me hesitate is because she’s someone I like. She’s a stubborn woman, so holding her and consoling her does nothing for her.
He means that it won’t do any good to let her have her way.
CS: (continuing) She abandoned me because I was in the way. And there’s no way she would welcome me if I went back. I don’t even know when she’ll next do something dangerous. But even after all that, I’ll think about if I’m a good enough person to go back and hang onto her.
CS departs; MG3 smiles at him.
Chansung understands the nature of Manwol’s contrariness. Being cool for her (that is, going along with her plans, being a wuss) won’t cut it because she’s willful and determined to have her way, and he’s not that type of guy who’ll allow her to walk all over him anyway. Remember, he preferred the second option, “When I bother you, you don’t like me.”
But on the other hand, being “uncool” doesn’t sit well with him either. In his mind, he’d been rejected because because he did the “uncool” act of holding her back. He didn’t like that he was left behind when he wanted to be at her side to comfort her. “Whether this is your fence or your jail, I’ll be here.”
At the end of the episode, Chansung chooses to be the uncool person. While throwing away the medicine is really a “cool” gesture,
clinging to her is decidedly an “uncool” gesture. lol.
To me, hanging onto an individual, especially when that person wants to walk away, is “uncool.” I’m not even going to discuss the “stalkerish” nature about that. But “hanging on” reminds me of airport scenes in kdramas where the guy is chasing the girl in an airport, screaming, “Kajima! Please don’t leave me!”
And that’s what Chansung chooses to do, keep sticking to her. So uncool.
However, his greatest fear is her death by self-destruction. He fears that he’ll be too late to stop her from destroying herself.
See the camera focus on the hand at the end of the episode. It means impotence. (stop those pervy thoughts now…tsk. tsk. tsk.) He’s helpless. With his own hands, he can’t save her.
MW: What did you see when you were dragged down to the bottom of the well?
CS: I saw fear.
MW: Fear?
CS: In return for seeing his greatest weakness, he showed me what I’m most afraid of and what I want to avoid. He showed me what I wanted to run away from. I was very frightened.
And he sees this scene.
CS: Just as I see you in my dreams, you’ve seen what my fears are, right?
Yes. She can see his greatest fear. She was looking straight at it here.
That’s why, too, she warned him before not to miss her too when she’s gone.
CS: Just as I moved the god here, you moved me to a safe place. (takes out the jar from his pocket) You know what this is, right?
MW: It’s medicine.
CS: You told her to do it, didn’t you?
MW: Think as you please. GCS, I hope you’ll be safe. (she walks away)
CS: I don’t want to. (she looks back) I’m going to be in danger to make you anxious.
MW: What?
CS pitches the medicine into the water. Rats! That must have been the AMNESIA-inducing potion.
MW: GCS! Do you know how precious that is? Do you know how pathetic I had to become, begging for that?
CS: JMW! There’s no safe place for me anymore. I’m going to continue to be in your way and get into danger. You continue to protect me please.
So there! He’s going to be uncool about their relationship. He informs her clearly, “I’m going to be in your way” and according to MG3, “being in the way is uncool.”
He’s going to block and thwart her every move to auto-destruct.
Question: but why does he look cool when he declares his uncoolness?
“Question: but why does he look cool when he declares his uncoolness?”
My (personal) answer: because love is a decision, the decision to put the other person’s well-being and best interests first, so emotionally a person can be annoyed, enraged, let-down etc. by the person that is loved but still can love that person.
He will use his Agaphe love with her. He will look for her best interest even against her will. Even if it hurts (consumes) him. All he asks is for her not to hurt him out of ill will (“Please, protect me”).
Good point. Good point. I like that.
Thank you for clarifying and also interpreting, pkm3. The subs I read made that conversation really opaque.
I loved where you showed us she was acting coldly just like the captain, because I had been contemplating the role reversals of Mira and Yeon Woo, she now the thief, he now authority figure, and wondering, if the captain was reincarnated as anyone, what the reverse might be! As he was matched with MW, then it makes sense structurally that she has become like him to a degree. In her coldness,as per your example, but I wonder too about her greediness.
I wonder if that curse on Mira, by the way, was completely unravelled. The curse was for her to feel like her family never wanted her and would abandon her. It might have been weakened, but I don’t think it’s a coincidence that CS, who absorbed the curse, is confronted within days by a mother who never wanted him and abandoned him. The presence of photos in both cases draws our attention to the parallel as well. I think MW and Seon Bi might know that’s true. Notice how SB tried to mitigate for CS that his father didn’t sell him off just for his own gain but for his son’s gain too.
The problem with this curse is it doesn’t play by our understood rules of time. It goes back and alters the past, or at least CS’s understanding of the past. Existence and time. Did that librarian even exist before the curse?
All of this is just supposition but if true it does put Chang Sun’s role into perspective. Drawing on myth, the HS do have him playing a sacrificial role as guardian to Man Wol. But he’s not protecting her from outside forces, or not solely. He’s primarily protecting her from herself. And he’s going to get hurt.. By her. For her. She’s going to save him, but it might not be enough, just as he still suffered from the curse even though the people around him tried to mitigate it.
“See that? He’s been obstructing her with such swag, that he’s actually “cool” being uncool.
CS: Don’t think of me too greatly. I’m not that good of a person where you can hand me anyone to take care of.
Here, the Kissasian sub makes more sense. “Don’t overestimate me. I don’t want to take the role that nobody wants. I’m not such a good person.””
The very fact that he doesn’t think of himself as “cool” makes him extremely “cool”. He’s not sanctimonious and insufferable or full of himself because he’s got a Messianic complex. The polar opposite of the Captain. CS is completely oblivious to how “cool” he is. It’s beautiful. ❤️ And yes to love being a decision. Not merely a feeling.
Yeah @Barbrey. I said before in another comment, I always felt Hong Sisters were priming CS for sacrifice. ☹️😢. He’s too good to be true.
Yes, he’s primed for it, but if the allusion holds, he actually is more primed to end the practice, because symbolically that’s what all the managers before him have been – willing sacrifices. One has to die before another can serve.
But Chan Sung is who Man Wol will be willing to sacrifice herself for, so I think we’re setting up for her death. And the dead in this story keep leaving things behind, whether it’s swords or jewellery or paintings or fireflies!
If Man Wol leaves behind just one flower, leaf or branch from the Moon Tree, CS can get her back. That’s what the golden bough is – it allows humans to go to the underworld and return.
I’m envisioning some kind of ending like that, but who knows?
Btw, Chang Sun is very loosely based on Virbius/Hippolytus, Diana’s companion, protector and priest. I cherry pick bits of the Hippolytus myth because I’m hoping Chan Sung is not so chaste, and the Phaedra storyline won’t come into it.
But something I find interesting is who his mother was. Hippolyta, Queen of the Amazons. A strong female leader of her people. Kind of like a school principal?! And Amazons never kept their boy children. It was unacceptable. They gave the boys to their fathers to raise. Just a fun nugget!
Interesting take, Barbrey! Thanks!
But why did his mother leave those pictures in that particular book? Any idea? What’s the meaning behind the book?
That book isn’t the kind a school principal (elementary, middle school? or high school?) would read. Heidegger is notoriously incomprehensible.
I think I got the flashlight element. The ghost was only discovered when the students shown the light on it. According to Heidegger, some things (or certain TRUTHS) could only be understood when we beam a light on them. However, at the same time that we spotlight or reveal the truth, we also conceal some other aspects of the truth. That’s because when we “spotlight” one thing, we leave other things in the shadows.
In terms of the mother, then, her EXISTENCE is one fact that was revealed or came to light. But the other facts about her, like why did she abandon the dad and Chansung, why did she want them kept secret, where had she been all this TIME, etc. were all obscured or kept in the dark.
@Pkm3, sure. Nice play on words. My own feeling is that since she’s a product of a curse, she might have been pulled into Existence and Time when the curse struck CS. I don’t think the Hong Sisters would expect anyone to more than cursorily research Heidigger, so either the answer to the book’s title is very simple, or the philosophy underlies the script, in which case it will be too deep for me!
Existence and Time reverses the adage “I think therefore I am”, to “I am therefore I think (act, feel, etc.). It privileges the actor, the who. The curse couldn’t just make CS feel abandoned, it needed a person and a past to attach those feelings to.
I am partly talking through my hat because this is sheer guesswork on my part to make bits fit.
@barbrey, you’re posting under a different name. lol. This went to my spambox.
Yes, Heidegger’s too deep for regular viewers. I can only remember smatterings from my arguments with my ex-boyfriend who was a philosophy major. I just told @agdr03 in another thread that I didn’t like Heidegger because he was a Nazi.
I remember “lichtung” which was German for clearing, (i.e., in the middle of the dark forest, there’s a clearing). Basically, Heidegger proposes that how we understand Truth is based on our PERSPECTIVES. Some things come to light because of a “clearing” or an enlightened perspective, but then the rest of the world is still in the dark; we simply cannot know everything.
This was easy concept for me to understand and remember because it’s true. We interpret things differently from others because we’ve different life experiences, education, culture, and so on, from others.
The other “well-known” Heideggerian concept is “care” or “sorge.” lol. I consider it well-known because I still (mis)remember parts of it. According to Heidegger, our existence is linked to our cares (or concerns) in the world. The things that we care about in this world (i.e., Manwol cares for Chansung and vice versa, Manwol cares for Yeonwoo and vice versa) AS WELL AS the things we hate in this world (i.e., Manwol hates the Captain) shape our existence.
Note: Things that we hate can be considered things that we “care” for because we “care” enough to expend time and energy hating it.
In this sense, we can see that Chansung’s mother really didn’t care for him. His existence didn’t matter and didn’t figure in hers.
And Manwol’s continuing hatred for the Captain means that she truly cared for him.
So that’s my quick take on the relevance of the book “Being and Time” to the episode, and how it presages the upcoming scenes. Hmmm….I may have to transfer these comments or I’ll find them hard to find later. Of course, it’s only here that we can discuss Heidegger without people rolling their eyes in boredom.
@Pkm3 well now you know my real name! Damn autofill.
Fun to have a space where we can discuss Heidigger! I like both those concepts of lichtung and sorge. In fact, the latter helps explain something to me.
I’m told Heidigger comes to the conclusion that Time actually is human existence. they are interchangeable. And that’s true of the past if we think in terms of experience shaping us into us. But he meant time as in the future too, and I think that’s where sorge comes in – the feelings we experience in the past and present project to our future.
Time becomes that light in the forest in the same way as being does – the light shines behind, on us, and a little way ahead of us, moving with us as we pass through the dark forest.
And this all goes back to Mira again. I think MW even says she’s going to alter Mira’s reality. She does this by changing the memories of her past, which alters the reality of her present, and projects the bad feelings into Mira’s future.
Existence and Time in a nutshell really. The fact that it’s CS’s mother who has the book entitled this, has the pictures of him, states she feels for him in exactly the way MW wanted Mira to feel: I still think it possible the curse rebounded on him and altered his reality to include a mother that didn’t want him.
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