Please post your spoilers here. Thanks!
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As I told @lovebangwon on twitter today, “Extra-ordinary You” and “The King in Love” were filmed by the same director. Had I known this sooner, I would have walked away.
I sensed a familiar style or approach in directing while watching “Extra-ordinary You” so I went on mydramalist to check who the director was. Lo and behold, it was Kim Sang Hyub.
In my opinion, what this director specializes in is creating ambiguity and/or double interpretation. For instance, (I mentioned this before) the banner that DanOh hated waving during that Sports Day was in her room, and the destiny rock that she said she didn’t need had her wish on it. IIRC, the banner said, “Kyung loves DanOh” and the destiny rock said, “I wish Baek Kyung liked me,” until she rewrote her wish. I suspected then that these props would be used to claim that DanOh returned Kyung feelings all along.
And I don’t like it. I don’t like the feeling that the director is deliberately playing tricks and distorting our perception of reality so he could show us how gullible we were. I already have to deal with fake news at work; I don’t want to have to deal with it too at home.
Apart from the director, both kdramas were adapted from original works. The screenwriters were allowed to follow the plot loosely, and to re-create the stories as they wished. Both kdramas had same love triangle:a king and his trusted guard fight over the girl.
In the “King in Love,” the King was the noble man. Siwan portrayed The King and he did a fine job. The Guard was a played by bland actor…I can’t remember his name. Whoops.
In the original novel from which the kdrama was based, the King was a cruel, blood-thirsty, manipulative tyrant, while the Guard was a loyal and trustworthy. At first, the fangirls were upset that the script didn’t follow the novel. Apparently, the King wasn’t evil enough and the Guard was acting like a douche.
It was obvious to me that the writer and director had planned to upended the original story. The King was hands-down the wiser one of the two guys. Even when he had reasons to doubt his bodyguard, he supported him since they’ve gone a long way back. He let it known from the beginning that he liked the girl. Later on, the girl would admit that she liked him.
Yet his Guard back-stabbed him. He stole King’s love and was enticed to lead a coup. He wasn’t so smart so the King was able to stop the coup. He repented his actions and accepted his punishment which should have been a death penalty. The King forgave him out of their friendship, and let him stage his fake death.
The kdrama didn’t follow the original story. But what greatly confused most viewers was the ending scene. The King entrusted his girl to the bodyguard to escort to safety. You see, because of the coup that his “friend” and bodyguard plotted against him, the King had no choice but to rule over the country until it stabilized. He abdicated shortly when news reports were heard that she was seen alone at the beach. The implied meaning here was she was still waiting for him to go to her, so he gave up the crown for her.
In comparison, the prince in Extra-ordinary you, is a psycho. He’s a wannabe king who wanted to ascend to the throne. To achieve this, he needed all the royal ministers to be loyal to him. The most influential of the ministers was DanOh’s father. Prince Kyung intended DanOh to be his pawn but she fell in love with Haru. In both the past and present lifetimes, DanOh chose Haru and he didn’t steal her away from Kyung.
That’s it for now.
Reposting @nrllee’s comments here.
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Yeah writer’s lame. 😂 What high school student gets married at 18? Especially in today’s climate. I just watched last night episode.
——- spoiler ———-
In TF, Squid tries to abdicate and run away with his lover. An assassin (not HR) apprehends them whilst they are trying to elope and she gets killed. I get the feeling DaeBi (NJ’s mother) might’ve sent the assassin. Squid tried to change his set up…and his lover died as a result.
I am getting the feeling that the flash forwards and flash backs are deceptive. The original intent of the writer was for DO to live. The surgery is necessary for her survival. BK wants her to go ahead with the surgery as planned. HR is trying to change her plight to avoid
/delay the surgery which would inevitably result in her death. That’s why not changing the scene/set up would ensure that DO survives in Secret. I think a fair number feel that HR was ordered by BK to kill DO in the stage and he tried to stop the sword with his left hand (hence the scar), but I get the feeling it’s BK who kills her. See the blue circled area in the pic below? BK is holding his sword’s scabbard in his left hand so he must have his sword on his right?
https://i.ibb.co/y0LSjNb/3-A997-FFC-C5-CC-4-A31-BFD0-8-DDE1-ADCAF01.jpg
And close up of the sword reveals the red/gold dragon motif on the blade, the blade can’t be HR’s, that’s the blade of royalty? It must be BK’s.
https://i.ibb.co/5jY3Fpz/88355-ADD-910-E-4-FA4-A1-DE-959-CF1531-D97.png
reposting @barbrey’s comments here.
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nrllee, That’s my theory too from a few threads ago (I know, I’ve posted a lot of theories!) that Haru and Dan Oh are characters from tragedy transp!anted to comedy. Secret is a comedy so the surgery should be a success, Kyung should genuinely fall in love, and they get a happily ever after. But recycled Dan Oh doesn’t love Kyung, she loves her Romeo Haru, and he blasts through to find her even though he was never supposed to be in this story.
If he changes the Stage, he changes the rom com to a tragedy. Dan Oh will die. I think he will or she will have to make a choice.
I do wonder about Kyung though – an accident and his heart is transplanted to Dan Oh? There is definitely a sense he’s been on a somewhat stuttered redemptive arc like the count.
Brava Pkm3! Nice summary and analysis.
I’ve been watching the impeachment inquiry so haven’t seen the next episode yet. Wish the inquiry could be summarized and analyzed as elegantly as your reviews!
Yup @Barbrey, your theory seems to be ringing true.
I get the feeling the characters (eg Squid and HR/DO) all changed the stage back in TF which was why that comic ended in tragedy. I have had a thought percolating through my mind. I wonder if we are led to believe that the writer wanted this tragic ending for DO in the first place. Was it because they changed the stage so much back then in TF that resulted in the tragedy? It was NOT the original intention of the writer to have them end like that. So if they have learnt anything (like Squid has), it would be to leave it be and trust the writer to deliver comedy in the end.
We have been fed this idea that the writer is cruel, sadistic and “hates” DO but “loves” BK. If that were the case I don’t see why the writer put in “little mercies” like the 300yo tree, the antique shop with trinkets for them to see on their date. I think the writer is sending them subliminal messages through Squid, the new girl, BK’s obstinacy, revealing the story board to DO, even the introduction of HR…these are all warnings for them NOT to change the stage or it would end up in tragedy like in TF. DO’s basic fundamental wish was “to live”, the audience has tagged on the love line with HR along with that wish. But if she doesn’t live, the love line is pointless. If she lives, she can make the choice later about whether to marry BK or not. So for her to “remain on BK’s side” may be just so she gets through the surgery to fix her heart for good. BK wants her to go ahead with the surgery, HR does not, believing that she will die on the operating table as a result. If DO allows HR to change her stage to halt or delay the surgery, I have a feeling she will die. I don’t know why they kept having a pic of an AED next to DO’s face when she was talking to the doctor about her surgery. There are surgically implantable defibrillators and they serve to monitor your heart and to “shock” it automatically when it stops…it’s life saving. I wonder if that’s the surgery that’s being performed? If it is and she has it then chances are when she gets her next heart Attack, she will live. Without it, it’s a rush to get her to the hospital or for paramedics to come around to shock her back to life. It may prove too late. Or perhaps the story will go with the heart transplant from BK like you suggested 🙂. Although the doctor seems to imply it’s a scheduled surgery? You can’t schedule a heart transplant, you’re on a standby list and you wait for the call.
For me the comic Secret is still in draft form, it’s not in print yet. That’s why it can undergo rewrites. Like when the character profile changed with the introduction of HR2. It’s a work in process. The copy that the characters are reading is the draft. TF on the other hand, is a completed comic, it’s already been printed so the story is already set in stone.
Apparently initially the original character descriptions were subsequently removed on the Channel site (it originally said DO would die), maybe the screen Writers themselves are doing the very same thing real time as with the comic Secret. Making it up as they go along and watching the characters develop on screen and then deciding on the final ending. Now that would be really clever. 😂
Aaah. Is that it? Is that how this screenwriter and director force Kyung’s rehabilitation? 🙄
He’ll change Stage and save DO from death bec he advises her to have surgery and HR will be the one to kill her bec he tries to stop her from surgery. 🙄☠️
There isn’t going to be a sword fight in Secret. But the dynamics will be similar. That’s the mathematical lesson on inductive reasoning in sequencing. 🙂 It’s studying the relationship a number has with its immediate or surrounding numbers to get the rule.
If you see 3, 5, 7
You know that the rule is +2
So when you see 151,
You can guess that the next numbers will be 153 and 155.
With Haru, DanOh and Kyung, the rule is jealousy.
Also, if we’re going to regard her joke that she’ll take on Kyung to defend Haru (from the antique store incident) as her subconscious mind remembering the past, then we can guess that person X will be protecting/defending person Y from the jealousy of person Z.
Yes, I see why most people would think that Prince Kyung ordered Haru to kill DanOh.
But for me, it’s possible, too, that in the sageuk world, BK wanted to kill HR for leaving him to go with DanOh (or his beginning) and DanOh ran into BK’s sword to save HR.
BK considered HR his only loyal person before and he didn’t want him to leave. But HR insisted. And BK would try to stop him from leaving by pulling out his sword to kill him.
Hmmm…
That’s why the younger brother insisted that it was fine if they were to continue to live “like that” — meaning with stepmom and dad. He wanted Kyung to be content with his life, and not change anything.
Because clinging to someone when they want to leave can cause death.
(ugh1 typos! My iphone keeps on swallowing words up and auto-correcting.)
I think DanOh dying is not so bad if that’s the only way to prove a theory that she and Haru are connected, and they’ll always find each other because they’re each other’s beginnings. Meaning, they always begin to gain consciousness/awareness when they encounter each other because their feelings for each other will awakened.
As Haru said, Writers don’t imbue their characters with feelings. That’s why writers can’t control the characters’ will, thoughts, and wishes. Writers can only make their characters move.
Remember that Tagore poem I gave you? That’s how love is defined when you’re in the state of reincarnation. That’s how it is for Haru and DanOh. For them it’ll seem as if they have loved each other in countless forms (sageuk, high school, 23rd century, etc) and in innumerable times (who knows how many manhwas there are in the library made by these writers). But in all those lifetimes, through all time, and until eternity, they’ll find each other because she is someone he can remember forever.
That’s why Haru said the stars were irrelevant. Even if the stars are erased, he’ll forever have a memory of her smiling. He can always make the stars in any world, where and when they’ll next meet.
lol. With Christianity, we die, go to heaven, everybody’s a child of God. (FYI, that was last Sunday’s reading. If a widow dies after remarrying 7 brothers, whose wife will she be in heaven? Jesus answers that the concept of marriage is for this world. It’s not like that in heaven.)
This is all pure conjecture on my part. I am trying to figure out some cohesive plot and make sense of it in my mind 😂. No idea if that’s what the final reveal is. Otherwise it makes no sense to have BK be as ridiculously obstinate and obsessive? Or keep pushing the envelope that for DO to survive she has to stay by BK’s side? I don’t see BK being redeemed. Or for him to have any future with DO (he’s hopelessly flawed and narcissistic to the extreme). I really don’t know where the screenwriter will take the drama. There have been a lot of theories because people mix up the original ManHwa plot with the drama one, even though there are similarities, apparently the trajectory in the drama has been markedly different. So I am not sure if the drama screen Writers will just go along with the original ManHwa ending or write something totally different.
“ I think DanOh dying is not so bad if that’s the only way to prove a theory that she and Haru are connected, and they’ll always find each other because they’re each other’s beginnings. ”
Yeah I would actually prefer this ending. Question is if the screenwriters are courageous enough to dish it out and leave it open like that. They would raise the ire of fan girls who are “willing” them to give HR and DO their deserved happy ever after NOW!!! 😂. Not in some nebulous reincarnated future.
“ With Christianity, we die, go to heaven, everybody’s a child of God.”
Yes I much prefer the surety we have in Christ. ❤️
Have you read the manhwa? I haven’t.
I assumed that the Kyung/LJW’s fans are dissatisfied with his character because they’re comparing him to the manhwa, and in the manhwa, he wasn’t such a douchebag. I mean…why would any sane person ship this guy with DanOh when there’s a Mr. Nice Guy Haru? I assumed that the Kyung/LJW’s fans (some, not all) have an insiders’ knowledge of the ending of the story, and that’s why they insist that they’re correct, that Kyung is the right man for DanOh.
Me: when I wrote down his dialogues, I saw that he was becoming increasingly possessive and adamant that she couldn’t escape their fate. He’s running roughshod over her and disregarding her wishes, as long as he gets his way. His goal is to retake his main character status with her back as his doting fiance.
AND that occurred in the Shadow, mind you.
In the Stage, Kyung appeared willing to back out of the marriage. Remember, I pointed it out in my last post because it was weird. It was as weird as that time he had an argument with his dad on the way to the movies. He didn’t want to DanOh to be used for their company. I didn’t know if he was breaking out of character (well, can he?) or the writer actually made him say those lines.
That’s why I told you that I’ve been toying with the idea that the writer might not be so capricious after all and Haru’s “chill” approach to the writer might be the right response. Haru doesn’t despise the writer. He’s unfazed and (almost) detached.
Even in Ep 24, all he said was he felt “uneasy.” He didn’t get mad at the writer for dumping more problems on them. But he does get angry with Kyung. He’s grabbed Kyung’s shirt so often already. He goes for Kyung’s collar everytime he thinks that Kyung’s about to hurt DanOh, but he hasn’t once complained about the writer’s unfair treatment of DanOh.
See that? I found that very interesting.
Anyway, I’m still toying with the idea….
No I haven’t read the webtoon. I just get little spoilers from the Soompi thread when those who have reveal what they know.
I am with you, BK is a complete douchebag. Malicious, vindictive, selfish to the core…abusive bf and probably similar husband to be.
And yes that’s why I have always found HR’s character different. He wants answers but he doesn’t put the blame on external forces outside of his control. He will step in if he can change something eg like when he punched BK or when he shirtfronts him (BK). He stands his ground. He experiments but he also accepts how things are. He knows he can’t change some things and he works with what he can change. Instead of “blaming the writer” or throwing his hands up in despair, he makes do, he works within the parameters given him. Yes he does try to push those boundaries to change the course of his “fate” and those of others around him but he’s undaunted when it fails to achieve what he set out to do. He just picks himself up, and tries again. It’s a life lesson (contentment) that everyone needs to learn. Don’t spend all your time wishing for someone else’s life and miss out on enjoying your own. Life is short, make the most of it.
I’m okay with Dan Oh dying though I’ll cry buckets. I think it’s because as much as I get caught up with the characters on a human level, I still think of them as book characters. Without a story, they’d be like lifeless mannequins in a dark storeroom waiting for the blue fairy to animate them.. So whether it’s tragedy or comedy, better to have a story than not.
That younger brother was almost menacing.
Juda is scaring me. She’s playing both boys, or she likes one and is playing the other. For what reason? I hope we get more of her story tomorrow. I do think she’s in a revenge plot but I don’t know against whom.
I don’t think Trumpet Flower ends with Dan Oh’s death. I think Haru and Kyung probably die too.
Interesting to see DO pray to the writer.
Haru is reverting into his old position of bodyguard, this time for Dan Oh.
I’m not theorizing anymore today! See you all after tomorrow’s episode!
Btw, pkm3, either there were always two copies of the Romeo? And? Juliet book or it has cloned…there were two copies in this episode side x side. Do you know?
“ I don’t think Trumpet Flower ends with Dan Oh’s death. I think Haru and Kyung probably die too.”
O yes that would be an ending with a flourish 🙂.
“I think it’s because as much as I get caught up with the characters on a human level, I still think of them as book characters. Without a story, they’d be like lifeless mannequins in a dark storeroom waiting for the blue fairy to animate them.. So whether it’s tragedy or comedy, better to have a story than not.”
This is why I am NOT on board with the writer “hating” DO. I have yet to meet a writer who doesn’t connect with her written characters on some level. Unless it’s a form of catharsis for some past hurt, a writer doesn’t “hate” her characters. It doesn’t make sense? Well at least good ones don’t anyway. Is the writer as bad as everyone makes her out to be? Or is the audience just projecting their sympathy for DO’s plight (thanks to the stellar acting of KHY) and taking it out on the writer?
Just checked your prior screen shot and there was only one copy before. Weird easter egg thing happening here. If Romeo=Haru, as I assume he does, we’ve now got two of him? Dunno. What do you think, nrllee, pkm3?
I think writers sometimes do hate their characters when the characters want to go their own way. I am, for instance, an often tangential thinker, and my characters shoot off in all directions if I don’t rein my imagination in. So writers say they hate their characters but they’re just ticked off with their brains really.
No I don’t think Dan Oh is hated by the writer. I think the writer loved her so much she wanted to give her a happy ending in Secret, but Haru had become too entwined with her as a tragic couple, so the writer left him out. In R&J, you really do get the sense Juliet might have been moderately happy with Paris, and she would have lived, if she had not met Romeo. If Dan Oh was not self aware, I think Kyung was already coming around to love her and her surgery would have been successful (I mean, what drama would traumatize the poor boy twice with dying loved ones in the hospital – mother and girlfriend?) We learn he has always loved her but couldnt bear the thought of losing her so kept pushing her away. Duh. So a happy ending for Dan Oh and Kyung except she’s aware, and aware Dan Oh knows she belongs with Haru.
So I think the writer needs one more do-over, maybe has already written it in that A Rose for You romance manwha. Personally, I would rather the two got an adventure romance like Romancing the Stone so we’d see her the picture of health!
Did I do something wrong? It says comment waiting moderation for the last one and there’s a different icon beside my name.
Squid’s lover died in TF too when he tried to change the scene (or others did and he was caught up in the butterfly effect?). Squid knows what will go down if you change the scene hence his reticence in Secret and he thought it wouldn’t matter for him because his lover wasn’t in Secret initially. The game changed when the writer threw her into the mix too. So now…potentially 2 Romeos.
Or maybe the trio JooDa/DoHwa/NamJoo now that JD seems to to playing both boys. So potentially another Romeo/Juliet there too? I think it was NJ’s mother in TF that sent the assassin to kill Squid’s lover as they tried to elope? She and JD are not seeing eye to eye.
Right now I’m just watching clips from Insta. Indo subs are faster wow.
Anyway in one clip I saw when Kyung said to DanOh that DO should have not made BK like her in the shadows, me being DO be like dude sorry, I’m sorry but iz not my fault 🙅🏼♀️🙅🏼♀️ Philippine watchers be like “So parang kasalanan ko?” “Sorry Ma” [Literally: So it’s like my sin/fault? (Famous meme/expression here but idk how to describe the way this phrase is said so like sorry only phil readers of this blog can relate 😢 maybe we could add some gif/video here somewhere😂😆😂😆) ]
Me being “Team Kyung” be hurting in the sidelines for him while also facepalming with his attitude and behavior, hurting myself even more (Team Kyung like looking forward more to Kyung’s scenes/stage/shadow with a dash of lingering hope that he will be given some redemption arc by stupid writers so that we team kyung be a little bit happy but also hoping that the writers would not be stupid and stick to their guns/pens 😂😆😂😅 ok I digress)
Waiting for this week’s eps to be fully subbed before I watch them
Yes. There are two copies. Yes. I’ve known that. 🙂 I wrote about it in my first impressions
Just like there are two of the historical architecture books. Probably to denote that two endings. Kyung and Haru
IIRC, the original screenshot I posted in “first impression” had two Romeo and Juliet copies.
Hmmm…
Now that you mentioned it… I recall seeing Turandot book in a different spot. It was closer to the end of the bookcase. It was in that scene when Squid was checking the manhwa.
Unfortunately I deleted a lot of screenshots from my laptop so I don’t know what Ep it was on. I was cleaning my files and folders bec I thought I was done with this show. 😂
Thanks, nrllee! You wrote down Haru’s qualities that I like. I’ll repost this out on the blog so I’ll find it easier, and the others, too.
He’s cautious, too. Remember he was the one who didn’t want to upset the birthday party. But since a) DanOh begged him and b) he saw Kyung dragging off DanOh by the wrist and hurting her, he stepped in.
Hmmmm… he didn’t like it then. And he didn’t like the surgery here now. 🤔 We’ll know the outcome soon.
But yes, the endgame as Haru is the correct ✅ message. To live each day (that’s his name) to the fullest. To find a secret joy and create a personal story each day. You are the main character of your story, no matter what the setup the writer has given.
See how positive that is? 🙂 To a viewer who feels that life has dealt him with a bad hand or given bad situation or bad fate, Haru and DanOh demonstrate a positive message and a good example of people making their own destiny.
The Kyung endgame sends the wrong ❌ message. I meant what I said in Philomen poem. He’s forcing the situation.
Yes, I don’t know what happened. I checked the spam box and your post was there. I “retrieved” it so it’s now back up.
Weird.
I don’t like wading through my spam box because that’s where all those auto-bot junk and solicitation posts go. 😂
Are you from Indonesia or the Phillipines? I think @agdr03 speaks Filipino too.
What?! Kyung “blamed” Danoh for making him fall in love with her in the shadows?! 😂 No. Heck no, boy.
Essentially, he wants her to take responsibility for HIS emotional reactions to her.
I wasn’t aware that we women are responsible for somebody else’s reactions. Remember my rape analogy in the blog post “On Kyung and the Philemon”?
That’s what rapists do. They blame the victim (i.e., drinking with them, talking to them, wearing sexy clothes, getting them horny, going out with them, etc) for their sexual aggression.
That’s a major no-no in the qualities we look for in a male lead. Kyung should be grow up, be more responsible, and MANAGE his own emotions.
“So parang kasalanan ko?” can be translated as “You kidding me, right?” 🤦♀️ and “Are you blaming me?” and “How’s that my fault?”
I find it very interesting that in a Christian culture or mindset, the concept of sin greatly influences the language. 🙂 If you make a mistake, it’s not merely an error, a miscalculation, a bad judgment call, a mental lapse, a relapse, a misdemeanor or a crime, a character flaw, a misunderstanding, or a faux pas.
It has to be a (insert thunder and lightning here) SIN!! 😂
Oooh. I love your idea, too. Why are you, ladies, so creative with alternative endings? I wouldn’t mind a “A Rose for You.” In fact — why don’t I answer everything on the blog?
I’m curious how the writer wrote Kyung’s character in Flower. Because until now, it’s not really a nice hero. Nam Joo is the typical tsundere hero but you can see that he loves Juda even if he’s super clumsy. Baek Kyung in Flower didn’t show that he had feeling for Danoh, it looks like he’s the one who want to take the throne when he’s not the official heir… Danoh is the first female lead in love with a liar… At least, in Secret, Baek Kyung is becoming nice in the Stage, in Shadow he still doesn’t undestand it’s too late.
Oh I’m from PH.
It’s just in instagram #extraordinaryyou I often see posts/clips of the drama from indonesian kdrama accounts, the clips having indonesian subs already.
re-posting for Mac….This is a spoiler.
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Don’t hate on me but I’m gonna comment this >.<
Bk did change the stage.. he took off her mask “stage” but in the shadow he put it back on (changing the stage), when Haru came to see her her mask was back on (after running into Bk in the hospital hallway) when you die in the stage you will come back as a different character in a different comic book (secret). Danoh died during stage in trumpet creeper. In secret she died in the shadow when haru came to visit her. Dying in the shadow means she will come back in the comic but without her memories (loss of self-awareness).
I think the writer intended for this to happen so danoh can finally live. Haru could never do that to danoh so Bk was the only one to change it, now that he realized his feelings for her he chose to put the mask back on her. Old Bk would have just left off.
Bk may be selfish however with him changing the stage in the shadow he was able to change her fate. I think he finally realized what he did in the past.. and in the current book he realized how much he loved Danoh. Danoh came back without her heart disease = she can live but without her memories. I expect haru do do everything he can for her to regain those memories back.
I know BK character’s is viewed as an antagonist, secret was different bc Bk realized his selfishness.. He hated his parents for using danoh, he hated seeing her sick, I know those are all excuses but he learned At the end. The writer loved all three characters therefore given a second chance.. in the manhwa it states “The number of lives you are granted, reflects on the author’s love for you”
Moral of this for BK : learn from your mistakes and do the right thing when given a second chance.
I’m not going to hate on you. 🙂
His redemption arc is to be expected as I said this director chooses projects precisely for this kind of thing. He rehabs characters. Didn’t you get what I was saying about “The King in Love”?
However, kindly read what I wrote in my post “On Kyung and ‘Philomel'”. It still stands AND now I’m calling bullshit on his sob story…AND his redemption arc AND the director/writers’ rehabilitation of his character. lol.
It’s fine and dandy that he gets to learn from his mistake. I’ll give him a trophy for it.
BRAVO, Kyung!
However, if this “re-education” or “enlightenment” or “change of heart” means that he gets DanOh in the end, then I still reject it as bad kdrama.
Why?
I said it already, but I’ll repeat it again and put in caps the edit after this revelation that Kyung put back on the mask for her.
Should the screenwriters and director try a twist in the ending or a “Gotcha” moment to show that we misunderstood her hatred FOR KYUNG for love FOR HIM all along, then they’re perpetuating this execrable worldview that:
a) girls really don’t know what they want,
b) girls are totally delusional,
c) girls easily get carried away with a swoony character,
d) girls should tolerate abusive behavior because he’s guaranteed to change into a prince of guy in the end (Oooh see that?? KYUNG PUT BACK MASK ON FOR HER),
e) girls should reject good guys for the bad guys,
f) a girl’s “No” actually means “Yes.”
Don’t you get what I mean?
If his one act of rescuing DanOh (his last-second decision) ERASES and TRUMPS everything that Haru did for her in the past, then this kdrama romanticizes abusive relationships.
That’s all there is to it.
I’m not a feminist-nazi but this drama gets my goat. When I think of the young viewers, especially the girls, who watch this show and fawn over Kyung, I don’t know if I should facepalm or weep at the kind of MORAL LESSON they’re assimilating.
Boys over Flower was made 10 years ago, and these directors and writers still perpetuate the same crap that a guy’s redemption makes a girl’s pain worth it.
Thanks for re-posting my comment on this thread! Got a bit excited lol
I do agree that Bk should not get danoh (from your perspective) at the end and I don’t think he will. That episode is more focused on bk learning from his mistakes and choosing to save her. I do understand what you said about the director’s way of twisting plots but I think we as viewers needed to understand BK’s role/existence (his role in danoh’s life) as we already know haru’s (her true love).. in the end Haru and danoh can finally be together.
You see, Mac, if this was any other director, then I’d rest easy and agree that “yes, Haru and DanOh will be together.” But I don’t trust this director. In “King in Love,” I remember objecting vehemently to his use of a forced kiss to create doubt.
Back story: The second lead forced his kiss on the girl and the girl struggled for a bit then just gave up. She thought the kiss would disenchant her lover (the KIng) enough to let her go. The King was ready to give up the country for her, but she knew she didn’t want his abdication on her conscience as so many lives would be killed. She didn’t love the second lead.
But of course, the stupid fangirls didn’t see it that way. With their puerile minds, all they could think of was “OOoooohhh. A kiss! It’s so sexy.” and “Oh! Our ship has sailed!!” and “Yummmy. I would have kissed him back.”
They totally missed the point. It’s harassment.
And this director’s execution of that forced kiss again *romanticized* abuse, harassment, and lack of a woman’s consent in an intimate act. It’s just a brief moment in the drama, I know. But even a brief moment leaves an indelible impression on a young woman’s mind. Those stupid fangirls (heaven, save me from them!) were titillated over the wrong thing.
And you know me. I made a big stink behind-the-scenes. I told the other posters that no, even when writers, directors, media, Hollywood, and whoever condone and normalize such behavior, smart bitches like us should know better. And we shouldn’t accept them as part of the romance. It’s sexual harassment, plain and simple.
Ha. The King in Love ended in September 2017. The #metoo movement broke out in October 2017.
I was right.
And regarding BK’s role, of course, I know of BK’s attraction for DanOh. It’s always been there.
Not only did I mention, in one of the old posts, that BK liked her more than she liked him, but I also pointed out that the scenes were set up so that there were double interpretations for most scenes. The director was playing it both ways.
Off the top of my head, here were the scenes when BK showed that he liked her.
He was the one who asked her why she wasn’t returning her calls, and she flipped her hair.
She told off NamJoo for bullying Jooda and he stared after her when she walked by. I said he was always looking at her, but she never looked at him.
When she fell down the stairs, he carried her.
When she was looking for her “backmate,” she stopped him and tested his, but her heart monitor didn’t go off. But look— the fact that he allowed her to bump his back meant that he didn’t mind her.
When he dodged the ball and let the girl behind him catch the ball.
The destiny rock should have confirmed that he liked her more.
First, she was looking for him, and he showed up because she was looking for him. Grumpy…but at least, he showed up (lol. See how we have to lower the bar for this guy?)
Second, he broke off the bigger chunk.
And here are some of the scenes where the director was playing it both ways.
The banner
The writing on the rock
The screenshot of the proposal at NJ’s bday party
The roses: red then pink
But the question is not about him liking her. But it’s about HER liking HIM.
And I’m telling you now…with this director, it wouldn’t be surprising for him to play “Gotcha! I trolled you!” and flip the story around so she ends up liking Kyung in this new life (without her old memories), and Haru giving her up and waiting forever and ever. Because that’s Haru’s destiny…to be her protector.
See what crappy schmaltzy lesson that is?
I get where you’re coming from Max. And no I don’t think he will get the girl in the end. He’s making baby steps to being a better person from the scene above. He has a way to go yet, but it’s a move in the “right” direction…although one would really question his motive for doing what he did. Did he know beforehand that it would result in a reboot of DO (wipe her memories like HR1)? Or did he do it purely because his conscience pricked him and he remedied what his character was “forced” to do in the stage? If it’s the latter, then it’s a promising start. For me redemption is not about where you should be, but where you’ve come from. Unlearning bad habits, changing a mindset. HR was a blank slate, he didn’t have overbearing parents or circumstance weighing in on his decision making process. Still, I believe we are the product of our circumstance AND the sum of our choices. Having a sucky upbringing doesn’t discount you from the responsibilities of your choices. His possessiveness when it comes to DO is abusive creepy stalkerish… so he’s still on my list of bf types to avoid. 😂.
Which then begs the question about the writer’s omniscience? Did she know how it would play out? Or was she sitting back and letting it run it’s course? Bearing in mind that in the Secret Universe, DO is a mere extra and her death/life is pretty inconsequential to the main plot line (it’s just that in the drama it’s first person from DO’s perspective so she looks like she’s the lead and that she is, in her life). Anyway, it’s just a thought I had. Because it would appear that what happens in the shadow is outside the realm of the writer’s “control”. She can observe “from above” but she can’t control the characters’ feelings or thought processes once they become “aware”.
I am sure DO mark 2 will “find” HR again. His job is to wait for her until she does. 😂. There’s already a big outcry in the other forum from HR fan girls as they weep for the parting of their OTP. I need to try to carve out time later today or tomorrow to watch the episode.
But yes @PM3, I agree wholeheartedly about your points above. If this PD forces the whole issue about DO staying with BK because it’s “destiny” or that she in some wise is supposed to stay with him to “fix him” in spite of how demeaning he is to her, I would be up in arms too 😂.
🙂
@nrllee, I wish I share your confidence. (Here, let me have some….) But once bitten, twice shy. This director will push it because he loves the redemption arc, the reversals, and these “Gotcha” moments.
Haha, bitter much, Packmule3? I know the feeling. Black left me dejected and actually angry.
Well this news about DO coming back is exciting. I wonder what her new set up will be. The new girl at school? Watch out Juda, you might not stay the main character.
😈 I’m bitter because I knew this was coming two weeks ago, a week ago? Anyway, right after Ep 10.
I told myself Ep 10 was going to be the last and I’d wait till after the show was done. But you and nrllee sucked me into watching Eps 11 and 12. 😂
Grrr.
I told Lovebangwon, I should have walked away the second I knew who the director was.
I need pink champagne. Even Tale of Nokdu is breaking down.
😂. Maybe you should wait till you know how it will end before going there again with this drama. I stayed away from HDL because I was burnt by Hwayugi. I know the feeling of disappointment well.
And yes I have also read how Nokdu story seems to be going around in frustrating circles last few eps.
I just hope this drama goes our way and finishes well. I like the ending that @Barbrey suggested where the Rose comic ends up being BK’s story with DO. I feel like he really needs to learn how to treat a girl right…he needs a character reboot…so he should just start off with that version of BK, the one who sits with DO in hospital without her knowing, brings her flowers, secretly pines for her…cold and gruff but more importantly kind. So he’s the one who loved her for 10 years and she’s the one who thinks of him as a “friend” 😂…only to finally realize later that she’s grown so fond of him that she’s fallen in love…
Ugh. You sure do know how to smack me when I’m already angry, nrllee. 😂😂
That’s what I’m afraid of. She wakes up with BK at her side, falls in love with BK, and forgets HR. And HR, lamely, will recede into the background, like stars, because HR is such a nice guy. And nice guys finish last.
Lol. I don’t regret raising nice sons though. I just got off the phone with my son and he’s joining us for dinner. He’s ordering dinner to go from my favorite Italian restaurant since he knows I’m battling flu-like symptoms. 😷 I thought getting those dumplings yesterday (for soup) from the Korean store would perk me up. But maybe minestrone soup will do the trick.
Remind me to ban that director next time.
Oh gosh, just watched first ten minutes of ep 14. Dont know if I can go on.
SPOILER
Haru changed the hospital charts so the info about having a surgery is on someone’s chart named Oh Kyung Soo, and I think that’s Juda’s grandmother because the email field on the chart says juda@something. So Juda’s grandma will have a needless surgery and die at the hands of Do Hwa’s doctor brother? So much for that romance. But sadder, Haru is a murderer? I really hope not.
pwahahahaha. I wouldn’t be surprised, @barbrey, if Haru turns out be a murderer (make it “MASS” murderer) and a rapist, too.
I warned you…this director turns things upside down, and will turn the screw to fit the redemption arc/rehabilitation for Kyung.
But please do watch and take one for the team. Who knows? This kdrama might win the lowest grade ever on this blog…Wait! I reserved that already
for
PoemCrap a Day.Just watched quickly… and… I blame LJW… I actually feel sorry for BK in this ep 🙄. His acting was brilliant. Beautifully done with the angst and conflicted emotions. I actually didn’t mind BK in this episode. He wasn’t the angry narcissist, he actually spoke gently and kindly to DO and listened to her. No more wrist grabbing and treating her like she was his “property”, thank goodness. So here’s the general gist…
If you die in the shadow…you get a reboot (you haven’t died on stage)… BUT you lose your memories. If you die on stage, that’s it for your character, end of story.
Anyway, it played out like I expected. DO needed the surgery to survive (even in the shadow). HR changed the charts and JD’s grandma received the surgery instead. At this point she (JD’s grandma) seems to have survived. DO on the other hand, thinks she’s all better (and the doctor does too) but she’s not. Note – the DO on stage in Secret is all better though so the comic is drawn as if she’s fully recovered.
Flashbacks –
1. Squid tried to run away with his lover in the shadow in TF. She was killed as they we’re running through the forest. This all happened in the shadow. He went back to being Crown Prince on the stage. He sees her return as a Court lady but her memory is wiped. He still seems to want to be with her regardless and hugs her when he sees her. BK looks to have ordered her (Squid’s lover) killed a second time so that Squid stays put…I am not sure if this second killing happened in the stage or shadow (probably stage?)… anyway, that’s why Squid has been warning HR off changing things. He saw his lover killed twice…shadow and stage.
2. HR sees a version of events in TF. He is running (like Squid with his lover) away with DO in the forest. BK is following menacingly with his sword drawn (I assume this is in the shadow). We don’t get to see if he catches up with them or not. Then click, the scene changes with DO fleeing from soldiers but no HR (I get the feeling this is the stage)…she is apprehended and the courtyard scene played out. She is accused of treason and HR leaps out to defend her. BK then orders him to kill DO (whose father has been conveniently framed with treason) so that HR can prove his loyalty and is not treasonous as well but is on BK’s side. HR sees himself using BK’s sword to stab DO (he tries to stop it with his left hand – hence the scar). Riddled with guilt, he starts to avoid DO in Secret as a result.
3. BK sees his TF version of the stabbing of DO. He has placed his hand on the hilt behind HR’s hand and forced the blade into DO.
Meanwhile back in Secret, DO collapses in the shadow. HR has been avoiding her because he is scared that he’s going to be the cause of her doom. BK is the one by her hospital bed. She has an oxygen mask on and he removes it? As if to “kill her” but here is where LJW gets all ambiguous and conflicted for me. Kudos to him. He gets his version of the TF events (pt 3 above) when he removes her oxygen mask. He realises that he killed her back in TF and weeps. He puts her mask back on I think? The next scene is when HR runs into the hospital room but BK is gone by then (the mask is back on DO). He sees DO and weeps as the monitoring equipment seem to indicate that she’s headed for a flatline…he prays for the writer to “save her”. And then click we move to the next stage scene back at school. We see DO (new hairdo…so we know what that’s about 😂) waltzing through the corridors. HR is relieved to see her and grabs her hand as she walks past. She stops, gives him a blank look, shakes off his hand and moves off to another group of friends to chat merrily. Her memories of him are wiped but she lives…her heart is all better now I believe on the Secret stage. And back to being BK’s girl again I guess? Much like HR2 was in the beginning…BK’s best buddy. Next week I guess we will hopefully see her regain her awareness again…
Rewatched critical scenes and changed my views above
1. BK did put the O2 mask back on after taking it off…he looks at himself in the mirror after the flashback in TF of him pushing the sword into DO. And he does bump into HR on his way out in the hospital and says rather dejectedly (defeatist if you ask me), “my character hasn’t changed”. Although I feel like he has for some reason… and again I blame LJW.
2. The treason plot line. It looked like DO was asked to feed CP Squid something laced with poison? She was warned by HR not to let Squid eat anything she gave him. On stage, he eats her food, she can’t stop him but as soon as stage ends, she tells him to spit it out. Squid though decides to do nothing, telling her not to feel bad, it’s just how it is. So am guessing DO’s father and her get pinned with this attempted poisoning (or real if it leads to his death).
3. The courtyard scene. This is interesting. Just because of how it played out. DO is apprehended. BK’s father orders her to be killed (NOT BK). The Guards move in to obey, HR comes out to her defence. BK then appears and yells, “stop”. Why do that? Why not just let the Guards kill them both? Is HR’s life so important to him that he would want him back by his side? He orders HR to kill DO (he refused by the way) and it was BK who pushed the sword into DO as HR held it. Again curse you LJW, was that a hint of remorse/hurt I see in your eye at the end of that scene as you removed your hand off the hilt? Did she die? Or was she just stabbed and would recover later? Was BK actually “aware” in TF? Did he yell “stop” and this was his rather convoluted way to get the pair of them out of “danger” and let them move on to a happy ever after? Or maybe he was this sadistic narcissistic self through and through?
4. Who killed Squid’s lover? On first watch it looked like BK…but both instances, it was an assassin who did it… first in the forest, and then in the Stage. In one scene, BK walks in on Squid embracing his lover (who can’t remember him). He tells Squid not to leave his throne. Next scene is when Squid walks into a room and finds that she’s already dead, the assassin stands with bleeding sword over her motionless body. BK walks in only after. The assassin bows and walks out. BK then says, “You should feel the pain of losing your beloved. You’re next”. I am not convinced BK ordered the killing. Why would he? He’s better off with Squid out of the picture? He wants the throne. He’s better off if Squid runs away with his lover? Who would kill Squid’s lover then? It would be DaeBi. She doesn’t want him to abdicate. Killing off his lover and reason for leaving would ensure he stays in his place.
Questions I have now is if Squid/his lover’s fate in TF will be that of HR/DO here in Secret. Squid’s lover died both in the shadow AND stage (I think). DO has died in the shadow. Will she die in the stage now? I still have questions about BK’s character arc. I feel like he will redeem himself by letting the lovers go their way?
Interesting point to note. Squid’s lover had a book in her locker…it’s got a pink cover…I get the feeling it’s TF. 😬
Thanks nrllee.
I haven’t paid attention to Jooda’s story. 😂
“ I haven’t paid attention to Jooda’s story”
Like @Barbrey I find JooDa fascinating because she’s playing both boys? She’s not as “nice” as she makes herself out to be. She’s coming across as conniving and I am not sure if it’s because the actress isn’t great (she’s no Kim HyeYoon) or because she’s supposed to be two timing as a character? 😂. On the one hand she’s stringing poor DoHwa along whilst at the same time, she’s still not exactly giving clear signals to NJ (especially in the shadow) that he’s not the one for her. She seems to be wanting to hedging her bets? She needs NJ because of his money but she likes DH as a bf.
So many questions! Danoh is sick in the Shadow but not anymore in the Stage. Everytime, she’s with Haru or speaks about him, her heart hurts.
In Flowers, she died in the Stage, so she had to disapear, I guess. The love triangle looks more like Haru is the center and not Danoh, it’s kinda weird. Was Flower a yaoi manhwa ? :p But BK seemed to feel guilty and sad after what he did, it seems he was aware.
In Secret, she died in Shadow, but we don’t know why. If she will come back as new person, BK didn’t have to kill her but just wait for it, and the mask was on her face. So did he want to erase her memories and after discovering what he did in Flower, he changed his mind?
Thanks for the spoilers Sayaris.
What is a yaoi manhwa? A gay manhwa? Lol. That’s funny. Remember the pottery class? As soon as the teacher told them to partner up, Haru and DanOh looked at KY. It appeared like they both wanted to partner up with KY. Then, when the Stage ended, they both went to partner up with each other, leaving KY alone. 🙂
I’m finishing up Hotel del Luna Ep 16 😂 writeup today and trying to catch up on Camellia and Tale of Nokdu.
@Barbrey Any further thoughts about who you think screenwriter has used as inspiration for BK? I don’t remember many irredeemable characters in the books on the shelf. Shylock is probably the closest to being the villain that BK is…prejudiced from a past wrong and therefore opting not to show mercy. Part of the outcry from Team Kyung stems from the drama BK being painted as such an odious character, far from his original webtoon counterpart. Leads me to wonder if the lack of experience and confidence in Rowoon’s abilities as an actor was what tipped it? They had to paint BK as black as they could (he was “handicapped”) so that they could ensure Rowoon’s HR would shine as brightly as he should. When I watched a recent subbed Press Con clip apparently Rowoon originally wanted to audition for BK’s role? 😂. I can’t imagine that he would make a very convincing BK. Anyway, I thought I saw signs of subtle change in BK in the last episode so it gives me hope that he may get his final redemption arc after all. Although if the writer is any good, a sudden reversal would be hard to swallow. A bit like JiHwa in Flower Crew. She was painted in such a bad light that it would be inconceivable to grant her a happy idyllic ending in the finale.
Thanks for reminding me about this. I was going to bring it up but forgot…
Kyung IS Shylock.
You see, the character of Shylock in the Shakespeare was a conplicated, two-sided character.
A. He was “sinned against” just like Kyung whose father used and abused him.
B. He was “sinning” just like Kyung who caused hardship on everyone around him.
That was Shylock’s complaint or “cri de coeur.” Christians hated him because he was Jewish (different religion, practiced usury) but people used and needed him because he was Jewish. (they borrowed money). It’s that whole “I’m just like one of you argument.” “If you prick us, do we not bleed? If you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you poison us, do we not die?” Just like Kyung is considered an antagonist but DanOh made him love her (or something??) in the Shadow. (sorry not watching this episode yet so I don’t know if this happened or not, lol)
Like Shylock, Kyung says he’s considered a bad guy but he was there all along helping her i.e., take her medicine with that “bibidibobbidibo” trick, running her to the clinic each time she fainted, and so on. 🙂
That’s why Shylock demanded his pound of flesh. As revenge. Because he’d been treated like a foul fish. But yes, Shylock was cruel vindictive and hell-bent on teaching everybody a lesson. But in the end, Portia got him good.
Hopefully this doesn’t mean that Kyung’s going to demand DanOh to marry him because he saved her from death.death in the manhwa world.
Also, if you’re looking for books, there are three copies of the Doosan (?) Encyclopedia on the shelves. (Vols 25 , 32 and ??) hahaha. I tried to search online what those volumes could be but failed.
Also a copy of Darwin’s “The Origin of Species” (I guess in reference to Haru finding his beginnings/origins), and “Good design goes heaven, bad design goes every where.”
I’m not sure if I read this book correctly, “Rome Legend.” If that IS indeed “Rome Legend,” all I know is about Romulus and Remus. Two brothers, raised by wolves (if I remember correctly), fighting over the land. Romulus killed Remus. Hence Rome named after him. That could be Kyung and Squid’s fight over the kingdom.
Yeah, a yaoi manga is about couple with 2 males (yuri manga with 2 females).
nrllee> I don’t think Baek Kyung was changed because of Rowoon’s acting. They changed a lot of elements from the webtoon. Haru is just sad and lonely, he doesn’t have stage’s scenes. Danoh is less spunky. Dowha has one of the most tragic secret, his family caused the tragedy of Juda, etc.
I think they changed Baek Kyung’s character because for some reasons, they always need a strong love triangle in a Kdrama… even when there a not love triangle in the original piece, they always add one like in The Tale of Nokdu, Yulmo is not in the original webtoon.
Thanks for that explanation @Sayaris about “yaoi” vs “yuri”.
“I think they changed Baek Kyung’s character because for some reasons, they always need a strong love triangle in a Kdrama”
My definition of a “strong” love triangle is one where BOTH are genuine contenders for the one prize (be it female or male) are in the running in the eyes of the audience. When you paint one (BK) in such a bad light, it’s not an equal fight anymore, it’s totally obvious who will win. Here HR is angelic, BK evil… there’s no contest. Maybe that’s the point. How bad does a writer have to paint a character before EVERYONE abandons ship. 😂. You only need to look at how fan girls defend their idols online after ridiculously unacceptable behavior to get your answer.
@packmule3 O that’s interesting about the other books on the shelf. I couldn’t work out the titles of the others. Yes there’s a lot of talk about “beginnings” so Origin of Species is interesting. As is the Romulus and Remus reference.
In a way, HR has fulfilled DO’s wish (the relationship rock). She lives, howbeit no longer the DO of old. What’s there left for him to do now? I guess “wait”. That’s what he does best. He has no family, no bills to pay, practically lives in the library/school doing whatever he wants – no familial or societal expectations of him at all. 😂. In actual fact, he’s the one character who has the most freedom in his choices. He’s a very unrealistic character.
Thanks. Yaoi and Yuri. And here I am with no manhwa experience. Is Tale of Nokdu a webtoon, too?!! 😈 No wonder the whole basis of the story is banal and the motives unsophisticated. 🤦♀️ It’s like reading a high schooler’s diary entry.
So how is Dohwa aware? What triggered him?
DanOh, triggered by Haru searching for her? Wasn’t she shown in an earlier episode, inside the portal, saying that she was going to look for answers?
Haru, triggered by DanOh in Secret, looking for her to find his beginning. Opening the portal to look for her??
KY, triggered by jealousy when HR kept appearing in his face (starting with library shoulder-check)
I read someone’s comment who noted that at the point of self awareness, each character had a corresponding mirror scene. All except HR. 🤔. As if to emphasise the whole “who am I really?” idea for the other characters. I think HR never needed a mirror scene because he existed purely for DO. He never had to question why or who he was?
Interesting point about the triggers. I haven’t noticed any pattern. It seems almost random but then again I didn’t really pay attention.
What do you mean “mirror” scene? There was a mirror where they looked at themselves?
For Dohwa. Not sure about Jooda bec I skipped her.
But for DanOh, she heard the clicking sound and then the vision fritzed like with a tv screen.
For Haru, clicking sound in Flower.
The sound from the flower, portal, and scar from Secret.
“ What do you mean “mirror” scene? There was a mirror where they looked at themselves?”
Apparently yes.
@nrllee @packmule3
Honestly idk what to think after watching the last episode. If Bk gets the girl at the end I’m going to flip my sh*t cause then what is the point of haru ?!?! Anyway. I have mixed feelings right now.
Look, Mac.
The fact that you’re questioning things is already a right step towards being self-aware. (lol. See what I did there?) 🙂
For me, the problem is the questionable point of view of the writers and the director. If(and that’s a big IF since we don’t know the ending yet) they’re trying to push their idea that Baek Kyung is the endgame because he’s been rehabbed, then I reject their notion. I’ve standards of right and wrong, and I won’t bend them for this drama.
The writers and directors may rehab Kyung, dress him up in prettily, give him new skin, and make him a tender boyfriend. That’s all fine. Everybody can have a
secondscratch that, INFINITE chances (Hey, this wasn’t Kyung’s second chance. He had so many chances before, but this was his first time to take it.) to become a good guy.However, you have to think of your own standards, or form them if you don’t have any. 🙂 If BK gets the girl, then what’s their message there?
That Haru’s a fine guy but good guys should finish last? That you can’t beat “fated love”? That you should hold out hope for a jerk to come through for you at the end? That being a jerk on the outside, but softie in the inside makes an ideal boyfriend material? That a girl should accept this kind of tsundere treatment because in the end he’ll change his heart and be a prince of a guy? That it’s better for a girl to fall in love with a tsundere guy than a sweet guy?
That redemption arc trumps everything else?
lol. I wouldn’t put it past this director to turn Haru into a psychopath in the last minute to shove Kyung down our throat.
You have to make your own critical judgment of the VALUES the director and writers are imparting to the viewers? What are you willing to accept?
Me? I’ve already drawn my lines. And I’ve already set my conditions. I said I. reject. their. message. should Kyung get DanOh.
Nah I think HR is end game. DO says HR is her fate. I mean look at TF BK…tyrannical despot to the extreme. If he got the girl in TF (but it looks like from the last ep he killed her 😂), it would make no sense and I would give the writer an F for fail. Plus it makes zero sense to have such a crazy first main lead in the comic TF anyway? Who in their right mind would want Sageuk BK to reign supreme at the end of the book? Even Squid is better king material. So maybe BK will die. I feel it’s too little too late now to rehab him fully. Too few episodes left…unless they are thinking of S2… apparently the webtoon/comic has volumes… 😂.
I have not once seen Kyung as end game! Nor have regular viewers, I suspect, just internet fan girls who like his looks. He just almost killed Dan Oh for his own selfish reasons. The writer has done nothing to persuade me he’s endgame.
Bad case of strep throat so the most I could concentrate on was Candy Crush! Just finished the episode.
What is up with the two copies of Romeo? and? Juliet, and another reference to twins Romulus and Remus, founders of Rome. Founders of Romeo? You know, dont know if you remember, I said from beginning these two – Haru and Kyung – were like two sides of the same person. We see them in relation to Dan Oh, but they have a connection in their own right. Front and back of the same coin. Stage and shadow. I thought the writer/director had abandoned that motif but it showed up again. Even Juda reflected it with Nam Ju the popular boy and Do Hwa the guardian.
At this point, I’ve exhausted theories for the end. I just hope the last two episodes are fun and have a satisfactory explanation. The best part about this episode was Sae Mi on the tandem bike pretending she was peddling.
Btw, I called it that Secret’s original ending was DO getting better and the loveline with Kyung, so Haru changing the stage meant tragedy, setting us up for the existential choice of DO remaining in ignorance and living a half-life or self-aware and dying soon.
I do wonder how Kyung will enjoy his Stepford Wife. Not much, I bet.
I also hope the writer rescues these poor souls from this conundrum.
@Barbrey get better soon. I have exhausted my theories and will wait for the final reveal. And then if the ending doesn’t annoy me too much I will see if I have the motivation and time enough to think about how it all fits together 😂. I still don’t know what BK’s brother is about, he with his cryptic warnings and sudden appearances out of nowhere…I didn’t even expect him to be at the school for some reason and he suddenly materialised in school uniform, gives his little cryptic spiel and then departs… Was he really necessary? One Yoda figure (Squid) is quite enough.
Well, the stage endgame will be BK-DO oooooooorrrr DO’s death, whichever the stupid manhwa writer wants Secret to end.
The shadow endgame/OTP however, which is the focal point of this drama, is DEFINITELY AND TOTALLY DO-HR. There’s no doubt to that. I can’t imagine DO together with BK in the shadow, no chance whatsoever.
With drama BK being made worser than webtoon BK, it should be easier for us viewers to ship HR-DO {Tho I’m not invested with this ship, I was swayed by LJW and be Team Kyung lol but HR-DO otp ftw 😂}
Sidenote: Well this drama did better in my opinion, because the main leads had their kiss unlike in The King in Love 😒😠😤
This drama better have an ending scene with the main leads together at last, happily living with each other side by side and not get the treatment TKIL got 😒
The director better… Or else 😤
Get well soon barbrey! I had a bug too but I’m on the mend now. They said winter’s going to be brutal this year so I’m stocking up soup bouillons.
I’m not 100% sure on that Rome Story book. Was too lazy to return the episode and take another screenshot.
Totally agree about the bro, nrllee. Unless he’s a twist we didn’t see coming and kaiser sose’s the ending? Otherwise useless.
At this point, we need to loooooooowerrrr our expectations for the ending. I did that for Del Luna so wasn’t too disappointed. I don’t think Kyung is endgame so I won’t lower that far, but a bad ending for me is leaving the world inexplicable or why all this was happening. The meta works on so many levels, but glitches a few places, like the heart monitor and hospital chart and how or why the writer would change the story in response, that I really do want the messiness explained.
“ At this point, we need to loooooooowerrrr our expectations for the ending.”
Wise words. Pics have surfaced of a graduation…but notably absent is HR? Some have said it’s because Rowoon is in the Philippines with his idol group so he might have already filmed his bits. But it’s a group shot though…so it would be weird if he’s not in it? Not sure where the writer is going with this ending. I would hate for it to be a neither here nor there one where BK gets the girl in the stage and HR in the shadow… sure there may be no romance on the Secret stage between HR/DO but BK’s stage character is just all kinds of wrong and like PM3 said, it’s sending the wrong message about what’s appropriate in a relationship.
Anyway, not long now. I will read spoilers before I watch to steel myself in case the ending is really lame. 🙄
I think everyone can agree that a happy ending would consist of all self-aware characters enacting their personalities and preferences the same in Shadow and on Stage.
I think they should pull a Buffy and blow up the high school on graduation day in Shadow. All self-aware characters lose memories and go back to the Stage to complete the story line. This book is unsalvagable in my opinion, and was meant to be Kyung and Nam Ju’s book.
Then the writers start,or have already written (A Rose for You?), a book where Haru, Do Hwa, Squid, his girl, Juda, Dan Oh, Sae Mi etc. can successfully merge shadow and stage because they’re consistent with each other. Obstacles happen, but nobody has to battle themselves.
It’s not elegant but it’s better than continuing the schizophrenic split we saw in this project.
Btw, are you writing on Camellia, Pkm3? I think the extension was a big mistake because I’m bored now but it’s still likable because of Pil Gu. I also think we need a whole thread on Young Sik’s phlegm rattle. Maybe on his overbite, snort AND phlegm rattle. I thought those might disappear but they are still omnipresent and ubiquitous, along with Dongbaek’s self-pity, which I admit to finding as lame as the other characters do.
What I’m surprised at is WhY I’m still rooting for this gross and/or whiny couple, and find them endearing in their own way. It’s true I like all the main leads, but I’m not fan girl material so I’ve dropped better liked leads before.
My question is therefore: why am I still watching this? Any insight appreciated!
@Barbrey they extended it? I guess it was having a good run with ratings… I think it’s a mistake to do that. Why not just finish on a high? Do they have that much additional material to add to the plot? Or is it just circling around and sits like filler episodes? I was told to start Camellia but the actress put me off. I have nothing against her acting but…call me shallow but I just find her face unappealing… my daughter would say she has a “resting b*tch face”…. 🙃. No offence meant to her fans. She’s probably a really lovely person in real life…but I just prefer softer visuals. 😂
So funny. That’s how I feel about certain actresses that have perma frown like Kim Suna and Han Ji Won. Yet like their dramas, forced myself to watch. This actress, well, I know what you mean as I found her an unlikely love interest when I first saw her but she does pitiable well and that’s the roles she usually gets and then gets stronger. In Camellia she’s been crying up a storm every episode, and every episode says she’ll get stronger, but we’re back to the same drawing board the next episode.
Yes, they went to 20 from 16. They’re drawing out certain characters. The Hyang Mi one was quite affecting but the last few episodes… I’d say if you don’t like the actress then don’t bother because she’s not going to grow on you in Camellia. That said, do not miss her blockbusters, my faves, Jealousy Incarnate, Greatest Love, That’s Okay It’s Love or Master’s Sun. All in my top ten despite having a similar reaction to the actress at first. But it’s really the men in these shows that are terrific – a really good time.
@Barbrey I plowed through That’s Okay It’s Love for the other characters. Primarily for Do KyungSoo but also to watch Jo InSung. I am contemplating Master’s Sun for So JiSub but am currently loving Money Flower with JangHyuk. I am thinking of going with a slower melo next when EY finishes. Chocolate looks promising. I like Yoon KyeSang and the other male lead was the second lead in Money Flower and I liked his acting there so I will tune in to watch.
I also think we need a whole thread on Young Sik’s phlegm rattle. Maybe on his overbite, snort AND phlegm rattle. I thought those might disappear but they are still omnipresent and ubiquitous, along with Dongbaek’s self-pity, which I admit to finding as lame as the other characters do.
What I’m surprised at is WhY I’m still rooting for this gross and/or whiny couple, and find them endearing in their own way.
That was funny @Barbrey , 😄 for me, it was the shouting of HongSik that really irritated me. It was like his voice can never go down a level. 🙄 I’m not a fan of both KHN and GHJ but I like them here together because they match in terms of being protective of their loved ones, they’re both hard working and they match in their level of understanding each other. I couldn’t agree more that they are endearing as a couple. 🙂
@Barbrey you may be on the money about HR/DO meeting in a new ManHwa. Pics of DO filming at a Uni? And HR too? No BK sighted… so that could very well be the comic A Rose for You. 😂👏. Much to the relief of fan girls of the OTP… there was gloom originally when HR was notably absent in the filming of the graduation.
Nrllee, I know Money Flower is a revenge melo, but how romantic is it? I watch kdrama almost entirely for romance; otherwise, I prefer shows with my own culture and language. I do like Jang Hyuk.
Yeah, I didn’t think this book Secret could resolve all the knots it got entangled in, though I am still hoping for the backstage explanations of its (and Haru’s) more mysterious beginnings.
@Barbrey I am stuck in Ep 14 of Money Flower…I went in thinking it was just 16 only to be shocked to find out there was actually 24…and I sort of lost steam – there’s only so much revenge I can take. There is romance but very little…it’s really angsty. I wouldn’t recommend it if all you want to see is Jang Hyuk romancing the girl… there is hardly any of it. It’s all about him plotting revenge and him brooding and pining for her in the meantime. 😂
I am tuning in to Chocolate with Yoon KyeSang. Have you watched Just Between Lovers? I really liked that one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rain_or_Shine_(TV_series)