Please post your spoilers, rants and raves here.
@nrllee, it’s all yours. 🙂
1. Gif credit: estherdise’s tumblr
Can you identify the scene these hand shots were taken from?
a. 
b.
c.
d.
e.
f.
g.
h.
2. Gif credit: nexttimeisnotthesame
3. Gif credit: thingskateknows’s tumblr
Sorry I cannot identify any of those scenes from the hand porn. 😂. I am too busy trying to make cohesive sense of the plot. They are DO and HR?? Surely??
Will rant and add spoilers when I get the chance to watch. I forgot Psychopath Diary is starting tonight too… O well.
You can spoil me with the ending for Camellia blooms. And if your theory about the killer is right.
Quite a handful! 😛 I recognise the one where DO was rubbing Haru’s fingers. Were there any other dramas with so much focus on hands…actually wrist grabbing in EY was just too much…in one of the episodes there were quite a wrist-ful of them.
I won’t get to watch till tomorrow night, so I await @nrllee’s spoilers and stuff I probably catch on Soompi.
Let me give you a hand then. 😛 B and D are after Haru regained his memory and they were sitting on the bench. E is after their their day out and Danoh wanted to check whether his scar was still there. They were on the roof deck.
“actually wrist grabbing in EY was just too much”
I agree 😕. Excessive. I always try to remind myself that it’s a cultural thing. Just like when they slap or kick the shins of employees? I always cringe when that happens. But it seems to be socially acceptable in Korea?
Yeahhh. When you think about it, when WAS the last time your hubby wrist-grabbed you? 😂
I can’t remember my hubby ever grabbing my wrist. Weird.
What’s my theory about the killer?
I keep changing.
Ah! There are two killers. Joker was Hyungsik. Hyemi’s killer, however, is the dad. But the one who entered the building to dispose of her body was Hyungsik.
I’m actually having second, third thoughts. I *want* Hyemi’s killer to be the lawyer. 😂
There are so many loose ends to the Killer mystery so I’m not happy with Ep 18’s sudden resolution.
Hellllloooo???
Will somebody spoil this for me so I know if I’m going to buy one or two pints of Ben and Jerry icecream on my way home today?
Who did DanOh end up with?
Don’t tell me it’s Kyung?!!!!
We got a bit of the answer in Camellia, didn’t we, when DB was itemizing abuses and Young Sik read them aloud, then said something about Korean law? Basically, grabbing a woman by the hand constitutes physical assault. But anywhere from forearm to wrist is not (though could be grounds for sexual assault if the woman presses charges).
So I got the impression that that legal rule was behind wrist-grabbing from a long way back, and people might not even be aware of why.
Men can’t take a woman’s hand. Even though, to us, taking a hand might seem more equal because hands can respond or communicate (squeeze tightly, go loose, struggle, tickle, drag the man in return, etc.), whereas a wrist cannot!
So yes, wrist-grabbing is annoying, hand-grabbing though also annoying would likely not be quite as annoying to a western audience.
I tried to google this but got nowhere.
I think you’re right, Pkm3, about the Joker not being what he seems. At the very least, there are a lot of things that need explaining.The next episode might help – it’s now up! But I wont be watching till tonight Pacific time for either it or EY.
At this point, I don’t care so much about getting Joker to jail as I do getting justice for Youngsik.
If he waited 15 years for Dongbaek, I’d throw a hissy fit. hahaha.
But yes, that yellow ball and the plastic container still intrigue me.
😂…
Full recap https://www.dramamilk.com/extraordinary-you-episode-15-29-30-live-recap/#comment-35424
I think in a nutshell, last night’s episode was about HR trying his darnedest to trigger DO’s memory by reenacting memories he had with her from the past. DO acts like her set up in Secret but she’s getting flashbacks (of Secret and TF) in the meantime. BK is understandably conflicted. Happy that she is back by his side but noticing that her heart still remembers HR (notably a slip up when she calls him HR instead of Kyung). BK and DO have a happy date together which feels suspiciously like a swan song…kudos to LJW for making me feel SOOOO bad for him. The comic is wrapping up and minor characters are starting to disappear. Squid tells HR that as that happens, things will start to disappear and characters wiped out from the stage/shadow. Characters then go to a deep sleep until the writer decides to draw them again in another comic book. It appears that if you make a big impression on the writer (who sees you in the stage and shadow), he/she may decide to draw you again and give you another story in the next comic. Ultimately the writer has final say in the matter. DO is starting to remember things and her heart monitor goes off whenever she’s around HR. After she and BK have their date, where they see markings from 10years ago (their heights), BK arranges to meet her by the tree and they can measure their heights again there to celebrate 10yrs of being together. BK decides to swap places with HR (gives him his coat) and tells him (I really like this monologue)
BK – the stage between DO and me will begin soon. You can go in place of me. Don’t get the wrong idea, I don’t want to help you. But DO would probably want to see you. No…I’m doing this because I hate the darn writer. I thought you were the only one who could change the stage. Try it if you can.
(Pauses as he sees HR hesitate)
BK – Don’t look at me like that. What? You can’t do it?
DO goes to the tree, sees the back of someone she assumes is BK, she plants her back next to his to “measure their heights”…voila…she gets all her memories flooding back. They tear up and embrace. (I didn’t cry at this scene 😮 for some reason)
Ironically this is the scene that I wept. DO returns the ring to BK (in the shadow) apologetically. He scoffs as he takes it.
BK (whispers almost inaudibly 😢) – Go.
DO hesitates and looks visibly upset knowing how much this would hurt him.
BK (repeats) – just go.
DO stands her ground.
BK (stands up from his chair, approaches her and says with a pained look on his face) – Back then and even now, I’m like a Monster to you.
(DO turns to walk away. She pauses and turns back and then says in tears)
DO – at least for the Eun DanOh of Secret, you weren’t like that. We were 2 characters who existed only for the sake of the main characters. You were Baek Kyung of A3, the wounded and mean guy, and I’m a terminally ill girl who had a crush on you. They were cliches. But we’re the only ones who knew how cruel and sad this is. We’re just these characters that the writer created, but we’re just DO and BK before our characters. BK, that’s why the Eun DanOh of Secret wants to thank you. The Eun DanOh of TF forgives you. These are only characters the writer created.
(She extends her hand to him…you need to watch this scene between the 2 of them. LJW’s face said it all…the build up of emotions as she speaks to him, culminating in a crescendo as the floodgates open- it was beautifully done…the PD obviously knew he could emote, the camera pans in on his expressions right through her speech)
DO – I hope you can become the real BK just like how I found the real me.
(He takes her extended hand of reconciliation and smiles through his tears 😭…ah bittersweet but O so good). Arguably the BEST scene in the episode.
So OTP is back to having cute moments in the shadow. But ominous because it looks like the writer is going to wipe out more characters and stage sets. HR notices that his name tag is blank again…dundundun… 😮😬… So yeah I don’t think they get their happy ever after in Secret.
You can read the recap for JD/NJ/DH ending…and also Squid and his lover (who turns out to be aware all this time).
For me this episode had a definite shift character wise. HR became the “selfish” one because despite him telling us that his intentions for DO to regain her memories was so that she could “be her own person” again…I see it as him wanting her back with him… 😂
BK on the other hand is learning to become selfless…finally giving her up to HR…I actually love how he did this in a very gruff Darcy like way… 😍. Kudos to him for self sacrificial love.
Fan girls will not see this of course… they had condemned him from the previews already…for daring to spend all that time on a date with DO…and even having that beach scene which in their eyes should only be the prerogative of the main characters 😂. How dare he?? For me, it was poetic. Like a final farewell…their swan song. And…even though on stage he seemed to be ready to plant one on her lips…he stopped himself as the scene changed to shadow. She would’ve gone with it but he showed restraint. Gallant and swoon worthy… Bad boy turned good… Curse you LJW!! Why did you have to be such a conflicted anti-hero??
Ironically, I am now Team HR on stage (I blame the statuesque but bland Rowoon) and Team BK in the shadow. 🤔
Thanks for your summary. That’s all I need for now. Highlights (Or lowlights).
The director is dragging this.
I told you that if the director knows the actor can emote, the camera stays on him/her face the whole time as the emotions will show. But if the actor can’t act or is not up to par, one directorial trick is to splice or cut the emotional scene: one second on the face, one second on a body movement, one second on the clouds, one second on the landscape, or one second on the partner. There’s an illusion created with the flash of sad images.
See? 🙂
I *warned* you that the director’s good at this. This is his expertise. Switching things up and making the bad guy look like a choir boy. You now have a cognitive dissonance.
😂 I’m staying out of this till this finishes.
But no. Acting is acting. If BK get the girl, the message of the show is unacceptable. This gets an F as I said earlier.
To me, his change of heart and rehabilitation (and the opposite action of smearing Haru’s character) were shoehorned by the director and writers to make him the endgame. That Kyung-DanOh loveline isn’t and never was organic to the story. Like the manhwa writer who insists on DanOh-Kyung’s loveline, the director is insisting that we see Kyung as the right match. DanOh might not have a choice in the matter. But I do.
😂. No I don’t see BK as bf material. I say Team BK only because he’s on the path to redemption as a person (which makes him infinitely more interesting than the idealistic HR) not because I think DO should stay with him. But still, this is my thoughts on BK (only because LJW made me think this). I copied and pasted my thoughts from Soompi here. They are all damning him to hell over there and I felt like I needed to open their eyes to a kinder alternative. I guess they are terrified that if they even for a moment see any good in BK at all, it would mean their OTP isn’t on safe soil. Just like you thought Hong Sisters used the inferences to the ZeZe controversy in HDL to highlight being kinder, LJW has brought that same message to me.
“As for those who say his redemption arc is weak, well, it’s all about changes isn’t it? It matters little where you have come from but eventually if that epiphany happens, it’s a turning point nonetheless. And this all came about from his own self reflection so he worked it out himself and internalized it. It’s a shift in the right direction. Just because someone is nasty and narcissistic suddenly decides to make a change, do we knock them down and say, “not good enough. You were so bad, you need to do so much good now to make up for it so until you do that, you’re still bad.” Or do we say, “good job. Keep going.” Redemption is a process. It takes a long time to unlearn bad habits and thought processes. The journey of 1000 miles begins with one step. The path to redemption is the same. DO even forgave BK of TF…that’s the right response. I applaud her for that. Our world would be a better place if we would offer encouragement to those trying to change rather than shutting them down at every opportunity because we see them as irredeemable. So yes, for some they say “too little too late” in the context of the drama, but just as this drama is about moving onto another comic and another, the BK of the next comic would be a slightly better man. With each iteration he’s better. The reincarnation trope. But even DO acknowledges that it’s a process. She wished that BK would one day find the real BK. It’s one of growth. Does he have a long way to go? Yes. Baby steps. But definitely baby steps in the right direction. Any other actor I would probably have just said, “whatever” but LJW was stellar in his performance and moved me. The camera loves him. I look forward to his future works.”
I am liking this change in BK, as a character we see that someone is able to change. I would be sad to see him remain an antagonist the entire story so like what @nrllee says “It is one of growth”. I am given a hope that someone so annoying/mean can change. I mean he probably isn’t a swoon worthy boyfriend…yet, but hopefully suitable for another character in another story. It is a closure for BK, now i await today’s last episode for DO & Haru’s closure
Yes @grace. To me BK’s character is the one with the most growth from the past and potential for growth in the future. It sends a message of hope out there. There but for the grace of God go I. Nobody can turn back time and have a new beginning, but we can start where we are and create a better ending. Unless of course you’re the ManHwa writer and wipes the slate clean and recycles characters. 😂
This episode he chose right and well. A definite shift.
1. He chose NOT to kiss DO even though she expected him to. That was noteworthy.
2. He chose voluntarily to give up his spot in the limelight so that HR could get his chance with DO. This cost him greatly. It meant that she was lost to him forever because she regained all her memories.
Well done BK. Well done. Sleep now and awaken to a better you in the next comic. 🙂
As much as BK is unforgivable for what he has done, I’m glad he is given a second chance. Someone can change for the better and hopefully they do not slip into their old ways (though in reality bad habits die hard, still like @nrllee said, these changes are slow but at least they are changes in the right direction). If we are judged by the all wrong things we do in the past, then there will not be hope for us. I like to see that even someone as monsterous as BK is capable for change for the better.
I would say the build up for BK’s change was from last week’s episode, I thought I sensed some hesitation from him, the realisation that he could be better to DO, but his jealousy and selfishness got the better of him then.
Ha…and I realise yes, this is BK’s set up as @packmule3 says.
It’s characters like the bad guy in Abyss that I totally don’t expect a change of heart…if he does I would be so mad! 😛
“ I would say the build up for BK’s change was from last week’s episode, I thought I sensed some hesitation from him, the realisation that he could be better to DO, but his jealousy and selfishness got the better of him then.”
I agree. I felt that too. For me, it was never about whether BK deserved DO. She was always going to be HR’s. It’s about his growth as a person apart from her. HR exists purely for DO. He lived in the school library. He had no familial or societal expectations weighing into his decisions. He was the ideal boyfriend. He is every woman’s ideal boyfriend. Always giving. Never too busy. Always doing what YOU want. Always keeping you happy.
Unfortunately fan girls couldn’t see that. For some reason they equate BK’s reformation into being a better person as a threat to the perfect HR. Why would that affect HR’s perfection? If you have to shout down any glimmer of humanity in a “monster” so that your beloved maintains his ethereal qualities, what does that say about his perfect qualities? That it’s only perfect because it is a foil against the backdrop a person who HAS to be black and stays black forevermore? It should stand alone regardless. I think I have said enough 😂. I am off to watch another drama now. I may not watch tonight’s episode till later tomorrow. I know how it will end already. HR and DO will get their happy ever after in another comic.
@packmule3 Apparently you’re having a gender identity crisis and gender fluidity has a new name and it’s packmule. 😂 You need to set the record straight that you’re not an asexual amoeba.
https://forums.soompi.com/topic/344014-add-and-subtract-game/?do=findComment&comment=21642972
😂🤦♀️ Seriously. Do opinions have a gender? Are they better off when a female or male post them? Will readers treat my opinions differently if I was one way or the other…or neither? When an opinion is logical, is the poster an Unnie or an Oppa? Or when an opinion is acerbic, cogent, dumb, blue, hysterical, dry, trenchant, witty or laughable, does knowing the gender of the poster make it MORE acerbic, cogent, dumb, blue…laughable?
An opinion should stand on its own merits, right? If it’s dumb, it’s dumb. If it’s valid, then it’s valid.
So… why does it matter which box I checked off?
😂😂
Just tell them that I was doing a psych test on THEM. I saw their confusion, fascination and their discussions about me in all the other forums (I did?? 😂). Their comments said a lot more about them and their views on gender intelligence and stereotypes than they did about me. 🤪😂
But on second thought…
don’t tell them anything, nrllee. 🤫🤫🤫 Shhhh. I know my friends know who OR what I am. And I can tell insiders from outsiders, and newbies from old-timers when they make my identity an issue.
😂 I didn’t even know where to check for someone’s gender on Soompi. I just assume the person is likely female unless their name gives them away or when they say they are otherwise in their posts. But you’re right, it doesn’t affect the rationale behind any argument. Your secret’s safe with me. I was just amused that you regressed from Kingdom Animalia to Kingdom Protozoa. From packmule to amoeba. How did that even happen?
Finale – I think on the whole I will give this drama a B. It was a fun watch and novel idea but the main message was obscured. I feel like the bulk of the audience would just walk away cursing the writer and wallowing thereby missing the point altogether about making the most of what you’re given in life. The star was definitely KHY. I wouldn’t have made it to the end of the drama otherwise. She was a treat to watch. 🙂
I liked
– Heidegger was mentioned (just like Hotel Del Luna) 🙂 during a University lecture (new ManHwa). And another book (poetry?) The Duino Elegies? (Duineser Elegien?).
– the bucket list (nearly completed bar the watch DO tried to give HR) – not quite 100 kisses but that will do 😂😘
– the ending that as a OTP they will always find each other in every iteration of the comic (much like reincarnation?) regardless.
– it was a sweet ending for OTP – as nameless extras in a new ManHwa…they meet back at the tree again Oct10 (what a surprise 😂). So I guess it means they can do what they want in this new ManHwa.
I didn’t like
– the forced reconciliations of everyone. It just felt…very shoe horned. I can take it if it was just one but it seemed like there was an attempt to get everyone to make amends
– why didn’t JD just let DH go already? She made a choice. What was this about dating NJ “Tue, thu, sat” and DH “Mon, Wed, Fri” leaving Sunday for herself? And her reason was she was the main female lead so it’s expected to “weigh her love interests in the love triangle”? That left me scratching my head…why bother turning her into a player again so late in the piece? She was already doing that most of the comic, to end with that was just strange. Just as well DH closed that door himself with his final words to her, “good bye”. Good for him.
– the secret was that NJ was in love with JD? What? The writer could’ve left it at his hidden identity about being illegitimate and I would buy it. 😂
– poor Squid only found out about his lover’s awareness on the last page of the comic. She could’ve told him earlier and they could’ve spent more time together with no “secrets” between them. I am still not sure why she would’ve kept it from him till that slip up in the end?
– BK’s brother was just a very strange character. I am not sure he was necessary as a character. Initially I thought he was the writer’s alter ego but it doesn’t seem so. One Yoda figure in Squid was enough, I didn’t think they needed 2. But maybe the writer wanted BK to have someone by his side to the end of Secret which seemed to be the only purpose for his brother’s character (the brother said he wanted to stay by BK’s side till the last page). And he was trying to sell me the idea that BK was affectionate and nice before in TC (but still lonely)? Not going to fly. Not at this late stage. Just leave BK as the flawed character that he is, no need to sugar coat him? I thought it was a weird tidbit he dropped in there.
@nrllee, I concur! No, really, I agree with everything you said except the final letter grade. I seem to be a high marker. I gave HDL an A and this one gets an A-. I always mark high for creativity even if the execution is lower. This story would have got an A+ from me if 1) it had not dragged so much in the second half; and 2) they did a better job of explaining the world.
The Duino Elegies were written by one of my favorite poets, Rainer Maria Rilke. My daughter is a poet herself and introduced him to me. They are some of the most beautiful poems ever written and I highly recommend them. The theme echoes the Heidigger summary at the beginning of the episode, that we are thrown into time or a strange world and its our relationships with others and things in the world that give us meaning.
But there was a lot of philosophy to chew on regarding the Secret world and without getting too heavy, I wish they had expanded. I felt like the second half did the first half a disservice by not answering many of the questions it set us up to ask.
So, as with Camellia, we got a happy ending but too much mopiness and bloat in the last four or five episodes. Much as I enjoyed both productions, I would really like to have given them full marks but can’t. Both get an A- from me.
Btw, about halfway through the series someone (was it taskmaster?) On Soompi said the ending might be best all round if they ended up nameless extras in the next book, and I concurred. Guess tbe writers thought so too!
“ The Duino Elegies were written by one of my favorite poets, Rainer Maria Rilke. My daughter is a poet herself and introduced him to me. They are some of the most beautiful poems ever written and I highly recommend them. The theme echoes the Heidigger summary at the beginning of the episode, that we are thrown into time or a strange world and its our relationships with others and things in the world that give us meaning.”
I knew you would tell me about Duino Elegies. 🙂 Thanks for the summary. I tried to read about it but got lost in the discussion about Angels and how he didn’t use it in the conventional way.
Nameless extras was the best way to end it so as to satisfy everyone that they would both find and love without much interference from the writer. Although it begs the question what about the next iteration? The other thing I didn’t appreciate was how BK’s cryptic brother told HR he was being erased early for changing the stage too much? That didn’t sit well with me. Did it mean that the writer therefore decided to just let them do as they will as nameless extras and in so doing he can write in peace (they finally got through to him)? 😂. I think you mentioned that in passing before?
Your daughter’s a poet? 😮👏. She must’ve inherited your genes. 🙂
Thanks – can I brag? She just recently became a high school English teacher, but when she was in high school herself she won a mentorship for her poetry with the top Canadian slam poet and world champion. She then met other mentored kids and they formed a poetry group performance collective that was amazingly cool. They were so dynamic they began opening for bands. Then they all got busy with uni but now she’s finished I expect she’ll do something similar.
I haven’t read Rilke for years, at least ten, so will need to revisit.
Did anyone identify the floating bust in the abyss swirl? I think that’s Beethoven but it would be cooler if it were Cicero. Busts of Cicero in literature are almost always symbols of free will. Like in Bartleby the Scrivener. Cicero’s writings were largely used when writing The Declaration of Independence.
I thought it was a great symbol for the abyss between books – if that’s Cicero!
Brag away. That’s an outstanding achievement 🙂. And it’s not bragging, it’s fact and you’re merely divulging information. 😂
I didn’t take much notice of the facial features of the bust. Cicero would be a nice touch.
Doesn’t look like Beethoven, looks more like Cicero (from pics in Google) 🙂
https://i.ibb.co/xg5y71B/B7-AA3-F20-DA38-4-E9-F-9-ECE-946643-F31700.jpg
The angle makes it confusing – face on busts of Cicero don’t show much hair. But in closer examination – I do believe it’s Cicero! Well done, show!
Thanks for the close up. I can confirm now. So who’s the guy on the easel, I wonder?
Awwww… Congratulations to your daughter! I know she’ll encourage her students to love literature the same way you undoubtedly encouraged her.
It’s not bragging at all!! It’s what I call “kvell”ing. Two Yiddish words I learned from my aunt. Kvetch and kvell. Kvell = to feel pride and happiness at seeing your family do well. Of course, it’s just natural that you share good news with us. What kind of internet friends are we if you hesitate to share happy news with each other? 🙂
“ So who’s the guy on the easel, I wonder?”
I can’t get a good picture of the guy on the easel, the angle is odd and the pic is too small to make out proper features? This was the best I could do
https://i.ibb.co/ZXBmCwt/3-F200-AB7-FE1-F-47-D3-8-D9-C-C3-EA8660-AAF3.jpg
Thanks for trying. I’ve no idea. I guess it could be Haru but the bangs look quite curly.
I think I have an explanation for the black hole in the sky (or against the library wall).
It’s the author’s asshole.
That’s why when you look inside, all you see is shit.
His manhwa and drama seem to be made of the same material!
More seriously, there’s no point in writing a script with various subtleties if it’s going to make it boring!
I’ve suffered a slow death to get this drama finished… for nothing.
I could list dozens of ideas on how to make the script exciting and addictive.
But right now, it’s no use… I’m so exasperated, I need to see an episode of good drama, anything.
If the next drama I watch turns out to be this disappointing, I’m gonna get really depressed…
I think I’m going to have to blow one of the “for sure” dramas I’ve been saving for this kind of emergency. “Jewel in the palace” or “Eyes Of Dawn”, a classic that’s incapable of disappointment…