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Let’s enjoy the show!
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160 Comments On “The King: Eps 3 – 4 Open Thread”
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The thread is now open for your comments, analyses, rants and theories.
Let’s enjoy the show!
credit: iyeolie
credit: minidramas
Comments are closed.
Gratuitous fan service for LMH 😂. Not sure if I will get the chance to watch this weekend. It’s a busy one.
I was waiting for somebody to post a comment. I’m watching it right now.
I must say my “fall-in-love” meter moved an inch, in the opening scene, when LG professed love in a mathematical confession.
***
LG: Among real numbers, my favorite is zero. You have the nature of that number.
TaeEul: (sarcastic) Do I? Who would have known?
LG: Usually a zero means that there is nothing. But it’s actually a number of absolute power. It can nullify any number or take everything away from it.
What makes money powerful is not the number at the front, but the number of zeros behind it. A number trapped in a root symbol can escape under only two circumstances. They need to have a square root or meet the powerful number, zero.
You’re always busy, and you don’t care much for me. Because of you, I’m powerless here, but it’s fine. You are much more amazing than I had imagined. And you’re standing in front of the root symbol I’m trapped in. You asked me if I mean it. That’s my answer.
*********
lol. He’s trapped in a root symbol and he has two choices of escape:
a. meet the “powerful number” 0 which means his queen, TaeEul
b. have a square root. He hasn’t designated a person to be his square root yet, whatever that means.
I was watching HP last night and I think it won’t show up on my Netflix till today so I’ll watch it today.
That’s one thing I have to give to LG, he is determined. ☺️
Ep 3 is easy to watch.
Yes, I’m beginning to like LG, too. He’s calm, collected and rational.
And he’s handy with his riding crop. lol. So yes , he’s the one who went back in time. Not the police friend of TE. 🙂
Sounds like a nice watch then. ☺️
I think I’ll have to keep the time travel simple in my head just so I won’t get any more confused. If I do get confused then I’ll come back to your notes here. 😂 Thanks for the confirmation that it was him who went back in time.
Agree, LG in as much as he is a spender, he is still calm and collected.
Who is the kid with the yo-yo?
“ Who is the kid with the yo-yo?”
😂 😂. Here I was dreaming wonderful things about a man who uses math to woo his woman (very poetic) and your question just burst my bubble.
@Snow Flower, there’s a few Who’s That? characters that appear in ep. 3, aren’t there?
One is a carryover from ep. 2: the silver-haired (but middle-aged) man in the company of the Prime Minister. In ep. 1 the Prime Minister walks out of a meeting; her aide was waiting just outside the door and joins her as they walk.
PM: They are all idiots. I thought I’d see only gorgeous men once I became Prime Minister.
Aide: But you…
He stops talking and looks behind them. Another set of footsteps is heard. Both the aide and PM stop walking and look behind them at someone approaching.
Aide (looking nervous, whispering behind his hand to PM.): But you formed the Cabinet.
PM (at normal, almost loud, volume): I know. (She looks at the approaching person, who has come near.) I chose them to shoot in the foot. (Standing by PM and her aide is a well dressed white-haired middle-aged man.)
PM: So, that was it for today, right?
Aide: Yes, ma’am.
PM (Facing White Hair): I will see you tomorrow.
In ep. 3 we see PM being driven to an important meeting. Aide is in the passenger seat up front. Sitting next to PM in the back, reading a book, is White Hair. The meeting is about a proposed salary raise for Congress members, which PM intends to veto. After listening to some arguments in favor of the salary raise from members of her own political party, she give a firm rebuttal. After her final dramatic words, she walks past White Hair and out of the meeting. He’d been leaning against a windowsill just to her right (but out of camera range before), legs crossed and snacking on something from a can. He pops something into his mouth, and crunches while looking dour, then follows PM out of the meeting. His stare down was directed toward Mr. Park, whose arguments against the PM’s veto had been condescending and sexist.
The yoyo kid looks scruffy. The lady who walks toward him, looks at him, then goes into the bookstore has a familiar face, but I can’t place her. The bookstore she walks into is along a narrow pathway by stairs, has a green awning, stacks of books outside, a ladder leaning to the right of a sliding glass door, and a street number sign which says 20. We don’t know which world this shop is in.
It is interesting to learn that the fish stall woman we saw the camera focus on in the beginning of ep. 1 during the announcements of King Lee Ho’s murder is the Prime Minister’s mother, and the fish shop is the Prime Minister’s childhood home. And what’s with a customer leaving behind an umbrella…THE umbrella?! Could Evil Prince have been that careless with his portion of the magic bamboo flute? The clues we are given as to when this falls in the timeline are that a little girl says she went to the palace before (to hear the king reading from Alice in Wonderland?) and a little boy says the PM is the king’s girlfriend (influenced by the photos staged by Maximus?).
After Lee Gon experiences time briefly standing still in ROK, the scene immediately following has Evil Prince walking with his Manpasikjeok-handle umbrella. He’s in a narrow passageway, with a green awning over his head. He comes up to a bookstore, stacks of books outside, a ladder leaning against the wall to the right of the door, and the street number sign says 20. (Yoyo boy not in sight, this time.) As he goes in, we see the name of the bookstore is Eosu. He locates a specific book, pulls it off the shelf, and finds inside a card that reads, “The king left the palace.” It seems he’s back in KOC. A man comes to speak to him, calling him Your Highness and remarking, “It’ been a long time.” This man reports that co-conspirators the Evil Prince alludes to “…always come at the agreed time.” Evil Prince has left instructions, and they’re being followed. [I did a side-by-side comparison of clips of this man’s face and the co-conspirator Evil Prince brought to ROK. Although I was first confused by bookshop man’s curlier and lightened hairstyle with bangs and no part, and by the wire rimmed glasses, I’m convinced they are the same person. The nose, cheeks, eyebrows, and ears are all the same shape. The ears convinced me, because the lobes are distinctive.]
Episode 3 was very meh for me- I was very bored and kept looking at the time meter- nothing seemed to happened in 80 mins and perhaps only got interesting in the last 10. The pace is strange, The drama seemed very spottily directed and written. Trust me I want to like it but at this moment it’s not there.
It’s also running out of time – mostly by episode 4 I’ll know if a drama has it or not , it has to be tonight. People don’t have much patience.
LMH is looking fine but I find he doesn’t have a good grasp of the character, it’s just very 2 dimensional and he’s trying too hard to charm, all those close up shots don’t work they are too many , ok we get it he is handsome but where’s the soul? He’s reciting mathematics but I don’t buy that he understands any of it. KGE started out good but by ep 3 is starting to annoy me with her annoyance at him (yet not pushing him away. I’m beginning to worry the reason I feel this way – is they both look jarring together, it’s like they are each acting on their own. Holy moly! , I hate to say this but there is little chemistry, which is ….The OTP have to click like fitted gloves for a KES drama to work. If this doesn’t get better, this will be a beautiful disaster and the ratings may be reflecting that…
Episode 3 was very meh for me- I was very bored and kept looking at the time meter- nothing seemed to happened in 80 mins and perhaps only got interesting in the last 10. The pace is strange, The drama seemed very spottily directed and written. Trust me I want to like it but at this moment it’s not there.
It’s also running out of time – mostly by episode 4 I’ll know if a drama has it or not , it has to be tonight. People don’t have much patience.
LMH is looking fine but I find he doesn’t have a good grasp of the character, it’s just very 2 dimensional and he’s trying too hard to charm, all those close up shots don’t work they are too many , ok we get it he is handsome but where’s the soul? He’s reciting mathematics but I don’t buy that he understands any of it. KGE started out good but by ep 3 is starting to annoy me with her annoyance at him (yet not pushing him away. I’m beginning to worry the reason I feel this way – is they both look jarring together, it’s like they are each acting on their own. Holy moly! , I hate to say this but there is little chemistry, which is ….The OTP have to click like fitted gloves for a KES drama to work. If this doesn’t get better, this will be a beautiful disaster and the ratings may be reflecting that…
Personaly, I liked the episode 3 because it was more about the cops and more precisely about Kang Shin-Jae and his relationship with Ta-Eul. He looks like to be an interesting character with his past as a rich kid who lost everything because of his mother.
I like the dialogues of Lee Gon but I don’t like the acting. The words came out so boring and monotonous… I understand he’s the King and he must have a royal tone, but it really doesn’t work for me.
I didn’t think the the magic portal was in the bamboo forest in ROK because the both times they arrived in the city of Seoul… So I’m lost. The bamboo forest is in Busan in KOC, where is in ROK?
So if a person suddenly comes to me claiming that he is a king ,wants to behead people etc.etc. I will really freak out thinking him to be a psycho. And that too if it is said infront of a police, isn’t she supposed to doubt and arrest him untill he himself proves his identity or some other process is applied. I get it that she says he is crazy and all but her actions don’t reflect it. She somehow seems to trust his words due to the DNA mess and Maximus being a rare Spanish breed. But even if those instances are strange , believing the parallel universe scenario will be the last thing that would occur in a sane mind. And come on she is a police. She deals with all type of criminals who are involved in suspicious activities. I don’t get the FL’s reactions. What is she trying to say?? And LG never had a gf so how suddenly he found her beautiful and fell in love although he knows that she was not his actual saviour. There is zero chemistry. LMH behaves like a know-it-all royal despite being a pauper in that world .Will anyone lend 2 million Won to a stranger with no identity just because he looks rich and handsome 🙄 ??.What is it with the nonchalant attitude that shows as if he knows everything about the past and present??.Why is a government officer that too a police is acting like an errand boy to a person with no identity.??He can be a fugitive who knows.What was the basis of LG suspecting that his uncle is alive??There was no explanation. Just because LG found the door it doesn’t prove that his uncle also did it.Plot was all over the place and scenes were incoherent. So many faces introduced that it was hard to keep track of them. I had many questions while watching epi 3 but seems to have forgotten the rest. However I m waiting for epi 4 to witness a miracle.
@Stardust, you have managed to capture my feelings when I watched Episode 3 last night. I felt exactly like you wrote… I want to like it but I can’t, and it is really frustrating. For me, the story doesn’t seem to flow, there are many filler scenes and the chemistry is less than enticing. Steeling myself to watch the 4th (and perhaps the last) episode tonight.
I just watched the OST 4, a song called Maze in English. It’s beautiful.
@agdr03 Somehow reminds me of the title song of “Some day or one day”. Check it out. I love the way the drama is shot..the colors and angles. Starting to watch it now.
https://youtu.be/jSE9TObi4rk
Oh is it similar to Shi Shi’s song from SDOOD? Thanks @Phoenix , I’ll check it out.😊
I’m watching episode 3 now too.
It’S funny how people have started singing a different tune this week just because the rating has been going down. Suddenly lee min ho’s acting is dull, him and KGE have no chemistry, etc. etc.
I think it’s unfortunate how people have collective mindset. If ratings went up I am sure they would have a completely different opinion haha.
For me what is working is LG and KTE’s banter. Also the parts of LG and woo do hwan’s lookalikes. Those parts are interesting enough. What is not working is shin jae’s unnecessary story arc. I think they wasted like around 15 min just talking about his integration in JTE’S family and how he has been a thug before. Completely unnecessary parts which do nothing to the story overall. I wanna know more about the fantasy part and how the time travel things work. I think the problem is with the direction, they don’t know how to handle such a large scale project where attentions should be paid on the hook of the story and not on unnecessary side characters. Two directors and still it is quite messy and not quite well organized.
But i still like the story so far apart from shin jae , like I said. The addition of the new recruit was also funny, so even that part was interesting enough. I am bit sad that the previous director is not directing the drama, I feel like in his hands it would have been a different show, a better one I mean. :/
@pkml3 I’ve finally watched Ep 3. I find the premise and some of the characters intriguing, and so, the slow reveal of more of the character background and hints to space-time effect of the portal, to be quite riveting.
I too was highly amused by the mathematical confession and ‘proposal’. I wonder if it really fell flat or whether JTE understood it well enough but pretended that she was only asking about whether he was sincere about speaking nonsense. I tend to think that she got embarrassed, realising that he was actually making a confession, and lied to appear uninterested.
As for your b.
– I didn’t think of it as him designating a person but rather finding that person who is his square root.
In the subs: “A number trapped in a root symbol can escape under only 2 circumstances. They need to have a square root or meet the powerful number zero.” – need to have = need to locate or find.
I took it to mean that he has not found his exact parallel other. If he considers himself a ‘perfect number’ or a perfect square, like the number 4, then in the way that the square root of 4 is 2 (+2 or -2), he has yet to find his + or – other iteration. We know that the child Lee Ji Hun was supposedly found drowned. If he had lived and met LG, I wonder what that would mean … Both of them should not co-exist in the same universe, therefore LG would have to leave (ie escape from the root symbol).
= = =
LG and deduction
I mentioned in the other post on evil uncle, that I liked how LG’s mathematical brain can literally and figuratively put 2 and 2 together.
When time stopped he says (partially paraphrased): “Time stopped for a while just now. Everything stopped except me. It might be a side effect of using that door. But thanks to that I saw something beautiful.”
He makes a deductive leap that since he is the only person for whom time did not stand still, and also the only one at that place who had used the portal, that the 2 facts could be linked. Not exactly scientific since not proven, but a good enough theory.
At first opportunity, LG drives JTE’s car, riding crop beside him, to the forest to investigate, and hears the flute. He sees the portal but does not go in.
He thinks: “On that day I should have realized it once I found out that Manpasikjeok is the key. That traitor has the other half, and that he is probably alive, moving back and forth from the two parallel worlds.
I should have known before seeing the beauty I have been looking for. I should have known that Manpasikjeok is the key and the lock.”
Since only when he had his half of the flute, was he able to see the portal, he deduces, (again without proof but logically) that the other person with the other half of the flute, (most likely his uncle whom he did not believe had died), would probably have also found the portal. His deductive leaps would have been more convincing for us, if it could have been attributed to some experience of being inexorably led to the portal, meaning that the one with the other half of flute would also have experienced the same. However LG had chased a disappearing white rabbit.
The thing about the flute being both the key and the lock, means he sees the portal as a door that can be opened in the presence of the flute, and then closed and remain unseen in its absence. This theory he had tested already.
Lightning and Thunder
Like MoA, there is thunder, often even rain in this show. This episode it accompanies pain with the appearance of strange cracks and light on LG’s right shoulder. Is this also a side effect of going through the portal? Why should his shoulder be affected? Is his own body going to be like another portal?
= = =
Random thoughts and questions that I trust show will answer:
– Does the bamboo forest move around from somewhere in Seoul to somewhere in Busan? So there is a shift in space as one passes through the portal?
– LG says that even is someone who had his DNA could be found, like a relative, that person would still not be his family. So his traitor uncle LL and we are not sure about Prince Buyeong, are not considered family. Only the one LG appoints is considered family to him.
– I like how astute OCL continues to be. Liking the writing of Myung Na Ri (fan of Jo Yeong) she hires her to spin a tale to hide LG’s absence from the palace.
– Jo Yeong wrongly thinks that LG will only like a scientific mind and dismisses Luna/JTE as not LG’s style. Words he will have to eat when LG declares JTE his Queen.
– I like JTE’s retort to LG that: “Liberal arts people make the ideas and the science people make them come true. But I don’t think you are capable of doing either.” More words to eat, I believe.
– More references to beheadings – the reasons now being interrupting the King and telling lies. These sound familiar, were they the same reasons given by the Queen of Hearts in Alice in Wonderland?
– In this show books are for reading, hiding important articles and conveying secret messages. I’m glad that show ended on the reading of a poem from Azaleas by Kim So Wol, but it’s worrying that the title was ‘Invocation of the Dead’ and read by OCL.
From the subs: INVOCATION OF THE DEAD
Oh, shattered name.
Oh, the name that parted in the air.
Oh, the name without an owner.
The name I will die calling.
I could not finish the last words I had in my heart.
(scene cuts to JTE coming home and seeing that Maximus is gone)
The one I loved.
(Lee Gon’s voice repeats)
The one I loved.
What do you mean by this, nearsea? ” I am bit sad that the previous director is not directing the drama, I feel like in his hands it would have been a different show, a better one I mean”
Is this a new director? Who was the old director? Somebody from Goblin?? But does it really matter now? Isn’t this drama pre-produced? They’re done filming everything? I think what they DO need is a good film editor who’ll put all the footage together in the right sequence to build suspense and to create logic in the story. Oh wwell….
In Ep 3, I’m not feeling LG and TaeEul’s “vibes” because TE is supposed to be pushing him away because his idea is too preposterous. So yes… I would say that my reaction is IN CONTEXT. lol.
But I thought LMH was dashing when he needed to be. I liked LG’s proposal. I was suckered in. Maybe it’s because I find science-technology-engineering-math (or STEM) men attractive lol. My husband’s in that field, if you must know.
I also thought LG’s crack on the “Liberal Arts” majors funny.
The way he knocked down those guys just with one hand using the riding crop was typical Lee MinHo fare. He’s supposed to do things like that, and he delivered. LG knocked down those thugs without breaking a sweat. He wasn’t injured like TaeEul and the police friend, Shin Jae.
I don’t know what’s up with Shin Jae. But he’s an important piece of the puzzle, nearsea. He was the only one I couldn’t connect to the original characters in the Kingdom of Corea but was obviously linked to it because he knew the logo. So I’m giving the character a chance to develop.
I don’t know who the yoyo child is. And the lady who walked in the store. Who is she? Do we know? We’ll find out soon enough.
I like the addition of the new cop. I guess he’s there for comic relief. Isn’t he the actor in “Pegasus Market” and “Hotel dela Luna”?
Have to watch the next episode soon.
See that? I knew you’d love this drama! I told you, didn’t I?
You’re the type to go for these metaphysical dramas.
I’m not done watching yet. I still have 15 more minutes then I can comment.
And I still have to answer your other post. lol. I had to deal with Hospital Playlist first.
@Nearsea and @pkml3 What I find weird is the editing. Viewers can’t tell in which world we are or whether it’s before or after the scene we were just shown. I’m guessing it’s deliberate to keep us off balanced. Also it’s to maybe mimic how jumping between portals shifts the travellers unexpectedly in time and space.
In the same way in Goblin, that we looked for the parallels between the King and Queen in the modern day, we have to wait to see if Kang Shin Jae has a parallel. Is he also experiencing some kind of deja vu, which enables him to ‘know’ of the royal logo without knowing where and how it belongs? Although it was by a different PD, I tend to feel that Kang’s mystery character is closer to the firefly in Hotel (de la) Luna, which kept popping up without it’s human parallel, and which we were trying to place.
I’m thinking that Kang’s character is important and not to be dismissed. He is hunting for the origin of that logo, for one thing. He adds the 3rd wheel and keeps LG humble if nothing else!!
Yes, the newbie cop actor is the same guy in Pegasus Market and Hotel (de la) Luna. I loved that scene and was laughing even before they handcuffed him. I totally anticipated the mistake the police team would make, when they saw him handcuffed to the villain. His role does not look all that significant yet, but I’d like to see if there’s a parallel of him, too, in KOC.
PM3, the director of goblin was Lee Eung-Bok. I think he also directed mr.sunshine but now he is handling another project as far as I know. A director from KES’s previous show is co-directing king monarch with another director.
——
Is this a new director? Who was the old director? Somebody from Goblin?? But does it really matter now? Isn’t this drama pre-produced? They’re done filming everything? I think what they DO need is a good film editor who’ll put all the footage together in the right sequence to build suspense and to create logic in the story. Oh wwell….
——–
I totally agree with you. I think what they need is a good editor, and some good background music to keep the audience hooked. For now I like as it is going, but every time I go to soompi people are overly scared lol that the rating keeps dropping and they have started questioning the value of the show. And I see the same on another website as well. Although I don’t believe a rating or majority’s view decides the success of a drama. But I do think they need some help on editing department.
I like the actor who plays shin jae. He is a new comer but quite charismatic. Like you said I hope he plays an important part in the story and not just there as a filler material.
I like the new introduction to the team haha. You are right, he was on hotel del luna that’s why I was wondering where have I seen him before.
Wish me luck, going to start episode 4 now. 😀
The directors of The King: Eternal Monarch are Baek Sang Hoon and Jung Ji Hyun. My feeling from reading articles about the drama is that Baek Sang Hoon would be considered First Unit Director and Jung Ji Hyun is Second Unit Director. I don’t think they are really equal partners in the process like say, the Wachowskis. I could be wrong, and they may be collaborating more.
Baek Sang Hoon was 2nd Director on Descendants of the Sun. Jung Ji Hyun was 2nd director on Mr. Sunshine. So they are both familiar with KES.
The main director on Descendants of the Sun, Goblin and Mr. Sunshine was Lee Eun Bok. He is currently working on Sweet Home which is slated for release this summer. His next project will be Mount Jiri, the new drama by the writer of Signal and Kingdom. I’m also sorry he wasn’t able to take the main director job for this drama as I really like his style ever since I watched Secret starring Ji Sung.
Thank goodness episode 4 is much better, what a relief.
Are we having different directors for different episode? The pace and feel is different and this is a much better episode. I will hate it if the inconsistency continues – LMH is doing better, I get the feel that he is suffering from some bad editing somehow as the scenes were all over the place in episode 2-3. Regardless I still feel he’s reciting his lines. But Today it is more logical and the chemistry is better. Ok so episode 4 gives me a hook to continue, Pls be good drama, the storyline has potential (I’m still divided about the cast, the only person I like now is just the police Detective)
I watched ep. 4 but the previews weren’t subbed. Did anyone see English subs for the previews? I’ll check again tomorrow, as sometimes they’re just late.
In ep. 4 after LG went back home, I found the ‘there but not there’scenes with Tae-Eul and LG a bit over-long and trying to conjure emotions that hadn’t been well developed in previous scenes. I could believe that LG was missing and obsessing over Tae-Eul, but less visa-versa until she gets her new ID. This is just my impression.
I liked the story of Shin Jae. I think he will be an important character. Tragic backstory and under care of a psychologist for bad dreams as well – are they dreams or memories from the other world? The writer could make him and the older uncle go either way – good or bad. What about the umbrella left at the PM’s mom’s restaurant? Is the evil uncle working with the PM or planning to?
I think it’s funny that the ratings are dropping. I think the story is too far-fetched for many viewers. I’m actually liking it better than before, LMH is stiff, but less so than in eps. 1 and 2. @agdr, LG’s scar returned at the end. ^^
I wonder if Tae-Eul and Lee Young will compare notes, both being new to this parallel universe idea.
who’s Lee Young?
I prob wrote the wrong name. Will correct.
Yes Stardust, ep 4 finally got a bit better. We saw the story from TEs viewpoint for a while and I got engaged. LMHs character hasn’t got a personality really. No friends. No work save poncing about “commanding” this and that. We better see some personality soon. But Go Eun saved the day with brilliant acting.
Direction and editing terrible. Story has too many characters and it’s impossible to follow on a first watch…and (note to the analysts here) a viewer is only supposed to watch once to follow a story.
Does anyone else think the clothes are awful. Just awful. LMHs pants are like bell bottoms. Way too wide at the ends.
I might forget to watch next week. I did this week but Netflix reminded me. The rating won’t be good.
Sorry, Jo Young, not Lee Young. (Oops.)
Thanks! I thought another Lee (the name associated with king) showed up. 🙂
Good afternoon/evening! ☺️
I’ll binge watch today after our Sunday mass. I couldn’t finish it last night as it was too late for me because the boys wanted to watch a Disney movie. 😄
@Fern, those scars better stay put. 😂
Okay. Tell me when you’re watching. Maybe I can join you. 🙂
@Smarie, I thing that designer bell bottoms are back (again, again, again). About every 20 years or so. Lol.
@agdr, it’ back on the right side of his neck, so they still don’t have it correct. Lol. He also suffers from neck tie trauma. He’s the king, couldn’t he just make them illegal?
I probably won’t start till 12pm here, is that too late for you? 😁
I’ll buzz you anyway ok? If you can’t, all good. ☺️
Oh 😄 Let me put his scar on for him in the right place then maybe I can do something else too. 🤣
My hallyucination is up today 😂
I’m here 😊
I’m sorry. On skype with my sobs now.
Sons.
Will try to catch up later. 🌷
No worries! Enjoy your treasures! 😉
@Stardust, I’m in agreement with you on the romance between the main leads. I guess I might be spoiled from CLOY but the romance in this drama feels like it’s sprinkled in for the sake of romance…not because it actually makes sense. It could be due to the writing or due to the acting, but I’ve liked LMH and KGE in separate films so who really knows.
Keeping up with the back and forth between the parallel universes requires me to be a LOT more attentive while watching this drama. So many characters popped up in ep3/4 where I had to rack my brain trying to figure out who was who/why are they important. I understand that this drama has a very complex storyline that it’s trying to convey which I can definitely appreciate, but I’m just hoping that I can fully comprehend the storyline soon haha.
Also, I just want to add that this blog is a godsend because I don’t notice half the things you point out in your analyses.
Ok, I am gonna give this a try because the theme includes mathematic, my fav subject and because yours truly’s comments/ analyses are intriguing and fascinating. Dong Mae would revolt if he saw I’m doing this but he’s on work trip so I can do it without having to deal with his wrath. 😂 Can’t promise I will stay though because my attention span on LMH is probably zero🤭🤭🤭. Should I stay, my ffwd friend shall be hanging around to assist me when required.😁
Off to binge watch!
Smarie: “…and (note to the analysts here) a viewer is only supposed to watch once to follow a story.”
There are many instances of creators who do universe building to engage their fans, pleasing an audience that enjoys digging for detail and hidden treasures. Think of the massive fan bases that live and breathe Star Trek, Star Wars, Harry Potter, Marvel Comics, etc. And that’s just what I’m aware of from my little corner in Western culture. Not everyone likes parsing dramas or books, but for those who do, it is satisfying to spend time on something that is multilayered and can stand up to a closer look.
Dear @GrowingBeautiful, it is always a pleasure to read you!!!, would love to have both you and @Barbrey in another post.
On the other hand @Miracle23, I am defending that this Drama kind of seems to operate like the Convolution operation in advanced maths, what is your take?
Hi @FGB4877, Likewise! How are you doing in that difficult part of the world? I hope you and your family are well.
Although, I’m no maths lover, and I can only manage simple Primary level maths, I kind of like the way maths comes into this story. Maybe because my brain finds it ‘alien’, it’s presence and promise of logical calculations with both definite and indefinite answers to puzzles, sort of comforts me, that in our physical-metaphysical world, we can explain some of it, and enjoy the mystery of the rest.
Take care of yourself!
@Welmaris and @Smarie
Well said, @Welmaris. I do sometimes like to squeeze out as much of the goodness as possible from a story in any format. Being in a forum such as this, challenges me to pay more minute attention to details since we are analysing for all possible conjectures for fun, and then we’ll see how right or wrong we are as the story unfolds.
@Smarie
I like watching dramas for 2 kinds of analyses. 1) as mentioned above and 2) for what the production is strong or weak in. As I’m an armchair and untrained reviewer, I only catch some aspects of 2). I agree with you that a good telling of the story, well executed with enough clarity, can at least enable viewers to follow the plot without too much difficulty.
Having to take the trouble to figure out the plot when one wants to sit back and just be entertained, is probably the reason why quite a few of us are on the brink of dropping the show.
However, since I also analyse for 1), and since I want to play along with the mystery, to make discoveries before they are revealed and to catch many clues that I keep missing, I find myself rewinding and reviewing with pleasure.
@FGB4877, I dozed off by the time LG crossed the portal. So, yeah. 😅 Patience, I need them aplenty.
I just finished ep. 1. This ep definitely has editing/writing issues, among others, 1) the scar, 2) the slo-mo (I think we can do without for most of it), 3) the falling of royal guards like flies (where the heck was the competent, skilled captain of royal guards? This is a crime! 🤦♀️), 4) the action scene during the killing of the king was mediocre (sorry not sorry. I have seen much better), 5) the king was already dead on the ground but camera captured the actor’s eyes twitching due to his tears etc. Oh I saw Yujo (Dong Mae’s righthand man) there as the righthand man of evil uncle. Dongmae won’t like this 🤨. Oh and they changed the actor that play the righthand man (Yoon Joo Man) to another actor (Lee Hae Yeong) after a decade to show that he is aging? From tan to fair skin after 10 years working under the sun? Really?🤦♀️ I know of them both cos I have watched them in other projects. My fav team in ep. 1 is team police of ROK. Ep. 1 is pretty straight forward as introduction. The saviour shot the glass to distract his opponents. My question, was he late? Did he plan to come before or after the king was killed? I think the OCL just wants LG to marry and have kids, to maintain stability in the court, hence the talisman. But the mention of clockwise and anticlockwise probably to hint on the workings of fate/portal, whatever it is. COK works clockwise, so when the talismans were hidden in that direction, perhaps the prayers will then be answered i.e. LG meeting his life partner, simply put. The rabbit or lady with rabbit sweater 🙄, I am having a thought that she works for evil uncle to lure LG into the portal, we’ll see. Evil uncle was not surprised of the ‘stop in the moment’. I read that his thought was, ‘he’s here’/’he’s finally crossed it’. I find evil uncle’s short moments are more engaging. I feel like I’m going through Mr. Sunshine all over again, though this one is not on par with ep. 1 of the Mr. Sunshine. My two cents thus far. 🤭
I’ve got my notes but I’m only halfway to finishing episode 4.
I’m liking LG and TE because they had that conversation of their childhood when they went to check the portal. 😊
I don’t think TE’s ever had a boyfriend? so LG is definitely new to her even with all his craziness, he is as always honest with her.
I love his brains!!
When time stopped, and instead of counting the seconds like we do here in the US, “one one thousand, two one thousand, three one thousand…”
or however it’s done in Korea,
he started counted the frozen time using Euler’s number!!!! 😂🤣🤪
Euler’s number is irrational. 😂😈👑
What he’s thinking is “This is irrational.” That time stopped just like that is irrational.
I don’t care about LMH. I like the way LG thinks.
Yes! He’s smart alright. What I liked was that he said he appreciated the time stopping because he saw someone beautiful. ☺️ TE did looked pretty there with her hand up.
I can’t comment with the numbers, me not good with it. 🙅🏻♀️😂
Whenever time stops, I have a wish that the person who is cognizant would quickly move closer or further or do something to show anyone else around that they’re not just making it up. If it were I, it would be an irresistible opportunity to prank them.
I’m glad that LG stood up to the PM, but she will be a dangerous enemy. She’s already had her background rubbed in her face by Lee Jong-in when she was hoping to gain some points.
Are you thinking what I’m thinking, Fern??
If I was crushing on Capt Jo, I would have pulled down his pants, so he’d know that what I was speaking of is true. 😂
That’s okay. I’ll explain the number jokes for you if I can.
But yes about that beauty…
He meant that time is needed to really appreciate beauty.
Also, he’s grateful that time is stop for a FLEETING moment. Think about it: a fleeting moment or a blink-of-an-eye moment is supposed to happen quickly.
But when time is stopped on a brief moment, you’re subverting (or contradicting) what it means to be a *fleeting* and *blinking* moment.
That whole moment with TE was an elusive moment that he managed to grasp in a second. 😂
The PM’s mother made a comment that ‘children have ears.’ This could reflect back on the injured child king as well as foreshadowing something about the boy with the yo-yo. Was he the same who bumped Tae-Eul and made her drop her I.D.?
@packmule03, pffffft. Capt. Jo watch out. Are you clocking him from Cynical Island or up close?
Fern, is it back on the right side? Or left?
Do you mind telling me the “timeline” of the scar’s movement. Thanks. I know this request is weird… but I don’t think it’s a slip-up by the director.
The scar is *misplaced* for a reason.
@agdr03 can I just say the wizen stooped figure of the Old Court Lady looks suspiciously like your date Master Yoda? 😂 She even speaks like him – really cryptic. And she’s in green. 😂. Ep3 done and dusted. A lot better than first 2 episodes but yes the transitions between the 2 worlds are a bit hard to work out…But I am finding it hard to work out how parallel the universes are…is it really in synch or is there a lag between scenes? Evil Uncle’s umbrella showed up where female PM’s home was so I assume he paid her a visit? Yes boy with yo-yo…is he the one originally in a wheelchair? Is that the mother? I forget. I agree about the atrocities committed against fashion… I like the dialogue but I find the execution by LMH unconvincing? KGE is great as usual. Don’t mind her partner either. WDH in that scene where he was in the King’s study talking to the absent King was the most memorable one for me. Still unsure if I will stay to the end.
Thanks! 😊
It was just a second but he got it and really saw her beauty. 😁
Yes, who is this boy with yo-yo?
The problem for me is EVERYBODY looks alike. 😫😭 I can recognize the main leads but all senior citizens, middle-aged women and children look alike to me.
Any theories re child with yo-yo?
Ya! Don’t do that to my person! 🙅🏻♀️😂
I like Captain Jo and Eun-Sup. 😆 But whats with Eun-sup’s accent? Whenever he speaks I feel like talking like him too. 🤣
Does LG’s scar have to do with the time lines and the parallel universe?
The first time it disappeared was when LG was wearing his pink sweater. Then most of the time it’s always on his right side.
It’s never shown on the left?
Please correct me @Fern and sorry for butting in. Thanks 😊
Can I just say the wizen stooped figure of the Old Court Lady looks suspiciously like your date Master Yoda? She even speaks like him – really cryptic. And she’s in green.
See? I’ve even placed Master Yoda in the actual drama. 😂 He’s got dual roles. 😂
I can’t place him yet but he lives at the Eunso Bookstore right? The evil uncle’s communication place.
I can’t place the woman that entered too when the boy with the yo-yo was there.
@packmule3, “Fern, is it back on the right side? Or left?”
@agdr03 pointed out that the boy’s neck on the left side (our right) was getting pierced with the flute while the uncle was trying to throttle him. When the valet was doing grown LG’s shirt up and got told off, the scar was on the right side (our left). It couldn’t be seen when he was wearing the big pink cardi, so I thought it was left out. Towards the end of ep. 4, when he is with Tae Eul, it is visible again, still on his right side. I thought about the mirror effect, but unless it’s more mobius than mirror, the scar stays on his right side in both KoC and RoK.
Sorry I can’t give you exact timings quickly because the drama keeps reverting to the opening credits when I try to ff.
@agdr03, you are never butting in. It was your observation in the first instance! 😊
I think I’ll have to re-watch ep4.
Boy with yo-yo and mother (?) could potentially be the lady with the paraplegic son who Evil Uncle “helped” so she’s now his loyal subject? That would make sense? Don’t know. She owes him? He brought her over to the Dark Side like Evil
Palpatine. Leia and Luke (err TE and her partner) crime fighting together. And Han (LG) and his Wookie (Maximus). See it all fits. And they warp through time. Makes perfect sense. WDH is Lando. 😂 Maybe?
☺️ Yeah I’m about to continue on episode 4 too but let me blow dry my hair first 😂
The scar disappeared???!
Like when?
Just shows you how much attention I actually paid to LMH. 😀
He was stabbed on left, right?
Then first scene when he grew up, stab was somewhere on his collarbone.
I dismissed it because AT FIRST I thought it was part of the time loop. (It’s too long to explain this on my iPhone). Meaning, what I was seeing might not be the first time.
But the scar disappeared completely??Very very interesting.
Then I’ve to discard my previous theory and think of another one. Back to the drawing boards….
See? That’s why I love these theories. If they don’t work, just throw them away. And start all over again. 😂
You got me!! 🤪
I was thinking of Möbius strip. For flowing time with an infinite loop, what’s on the left could (seemingly) go to the right depending on where you are on the circle.
But when it was mentioned that the scar disappeared, I went “Huh?! Not a mobius theory then. Sigh.”
Okay. Möbius Theory is still on.
And agdr03, I would have been more upset if you did NOT butt in. 😀
Yes. Definitely young king LG was cut on the left side of his neck.
When he was getting dressed as an adult for the first time, it was on the right side of his neck.
When LG made TE wait almost 10 minutes at the hotel lobby, he was wearing a pink sweater and I couldn’t see his scar there.
Then after that, most of the time it’s on his right whenever you see him wear an open shirt/clothes. It’s never been shown on the left since the incident.
I’ll leave you with the Möbius Theory. 😉
“I’ll leave you with the Möbius Theory. 😉”
You made me laugh, agdr03!! I imagined you leaving.
And thought to myself, “There she goes! agdr03 just left the conversation.”
🤣🤣
Hugs, agdr03. For keeping it real, I’m giving you a hug. 🤗
Here’s the weird bit… I just took a close look…Evil Prince holds flute with his right hand (with the ring) and pierces boy’s left side… and then screen cuts to a mirror shot with him holding the flute with his left hand (no ring) and stabbing the boy on his right… current LG has his scar on his right. Did we have a time shift? Unless it’s just a bad camera angle?
https://i.ibb.co/QD8kTV6/0-F407307-A08-C-4-F9-E-B512-90393-EAED8-B6.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/p2DG5GM/62-DB7-E4-A-5-B5-C-4504-A4-BF-15-DA1-AEEED79.jpg
Was the yo-yo boy the same boy as the one who knocked kGE down when she dropped her work pass? Same thing, I can’t differentiate the kids – they seem to look the same. This boy reaction was weird.
I also like that he counted with a irrational number when time stopped. He’s supposed to be smart and mathematical, LMH needs to kinda convince me that. But I get it on paper. Maybe we are missing a few scenes here and there that can cement a better character feel.
I want to think because they are in an eternal loop they seem to follow a storyline. Because who would loan so much money to a stranger, it is strange that the bubble tea/cafe store owner would just do that ? (Also why aren’t we seeing that scene) Unless you have done it before (without you knowing “now” of course but here in your “current” timeline you just do it and it feels like déjà vu ) if they can show this, I can get why the female lead kinda of hate but yet can’t push him away.
The scar too. I found it very interesting that 1) we saw a glimpse of trauma that he hate to have something around his neck. That’s great drama, at least I can rationalize the ugly Low cut sweaters. I accept this logic 2) that he is starting to hurt on his back shoulder? That’s the spot where she hit him or why???
These are ep4 saving grace (thank lord!!) I’m intrigued enough to continue watching
Ok but what if we are all smarter than than the writer and all these theories are kaput *face palm* I sure hope not pls…
Ahh sorry I went to look again. He’s holding both segments of the flute that’s why it looks weird. Boy slices off the flute and one bit drops to the ground and he picks that bit up with his left hand. His right hand (with the ring) is still holding the other section of the flute. He pins LG up against the pillar and stabs him on the boy’s right with his left hand. So scar should be on the right of LG.
Thanks for my hug! 😍 Glad to make you laugh. I can feel your laughter all the way here. 😂
But I wasn’t leaving the conversation, just that theory for you coz my mind is not into those things. 🙅🏻♀️😆
Oh I was looking it wrong the whole time? 🤣 So it should be on the right side of his neck?
Maybe it’s time for new glasses 🤓😆
Can you take a look again, @agdr03? Thanks.
I’m NOT saying that nrllee’s wrong/right, okay?
But I want a second, third… opinion. What did YOU see?
“ I’m NOT saying that nrllee’s wrong/right, okay?
But I want a second, third… opinion. What did YOU see?”
😂 I wasn’t paying that much attention. But from memory scar was on LG’s right (when he was getting dressed) and little boy had bandages on that same side of his neck during mourning period. Happy to be wrong.🙂
At 10:02, Uncle first pinned LG with his left hand and he already has the other half of the flute from the floor. It didn’t look like he was piercing him then. At 10:11 he put the flute against him with his right hand but you can see he didn’t piece him with the flute BUT there’s a piercing sound. At 10:19, it looks like he was piercing him then. LG was holding on his right arm, you can see the button on his robe.
Then at 10:26, you can see uncle’s left hand pushing the flute but it’s more to his collarbone, like right in the middle. You can see LG’s right cheeks on top of uncle’s left hand at 10:28.
I think it’s more to the middle than the right. But I think @nrllee is right. 😊 You can check it out too.
But he really didn’t have the scar when he was wearing the pink sweater.
I think you were right @nrllee. I was wrong. This is why a rewatch is needed. I had to watch it a few times to get it sorted. It must have been the piercing sound that made me think it was on his left side. 😊
But definitely the scar is gone in episode 2 at 31:34.
As I feared, this drama is getting flabby and dragging…
I keep watching it anyway, because I’m not watching anything else right now. I pay irrational attention to it, as I did to Legend of the blue sea. The most important thing for me: I still want to know what happens next. So there’s something addictive at the moment. I’m a simple spectator, and at the first viewing, the only thing that’s important is the pleasure and the addiction. And if fantastic elements strike my imagination, it’s even better, if it’s consistent.
There are a lot of mysteries scattered everywhere. Normally, I like that, as long as the plot is exciting. But it’s getting as unthrilling as Goblin, unfortunately.
I don’t like some of the tricks that are used: timestop for example. It’s very pumped on other stories that did it much better, with more logic, or because it was necessary to the story. Here, I see it more as a cool effect allowing to film an aesthetic scene (the wave stopped in the open air).
Here, since the drama is about Einstein’s relativistic physics: in such a situation, everything would be dark (the light no longer propagates). The character would be unable to breathe, and would be immobilized by a wall of motionless particles. Perhaps the immobilization of the particles could trigger something unknown as well. Finally, the temperature would be absolute zero. I don’t think the main character could survive in this context, let alone move around and grow leaves. But after all, he does have a magic flute. Well, half a magic flute.
Come to think of it, why don’t we cut out more of this magic flute and give the pieces to other people? That way, a lot of people could get a cane or an umbrella with a piece of magic flute in it.
I’m afraid that the use of “Einstein = creator of quantum physics” was a script error, because here the script refers to him again, and he is ALSO the creator of relativistic physics…
Finally, a new picture is taken for the ID card. So, it looks like there’s no infinite time loop. Maybe the King is just eternal because his piece of magic flute keeps him from aging.
This drama is boring in terms of rhythm and action. I feel like I’m seeing a suboptimal, or half failed SJJ drama. I’m even afraid that the fantasy elements used end up contradicting each other, and that the script is ultimately flawed.
Episodes 3 and 4 drag on until the final cliffhanger oriented sentimental story. Cliffhanger however successful. I am ready to believe in this sentimental story, because the heroine gradually changes her state of mind, and is overwhelmed by more and more evidence.
The King has a certain personality, but perhaps people have difficulty detecting it, because it is the personality of someone who is peaceful. Very involved in his duty, I liked his repartee in Episode 4, to Prime Minister Koo: “Every moment of my life is the history of the kingdom of Korea. And I want this history to last forever because I am the king of this country. But it will require much more than my benevolence. So I can never be indebted to you.”
The final scene of episode 4 is beautiful and very romantic. Intense shared gaze. Romance is what makes me want to see the sequel.
“I think you were right @nrllee. I was wrong. This is why a rewatch is needed. I had to watch it a few times to get it sorted. It must have been the piercing sound that made me think it was on his left side. 😊”
@nrllee, 💐🍪 3rd viewing. The angle of the flute part in the uncle’s right hand made me think that he was using it to pierce, but later, his left hand seems to be the side doing the piercing to the boy’s neck on the right. I’ve been dissing the PD without cause. 😶 Floor, open up and swallow me whole.
Wait. I think you’re ALL right. I’ll post pictures.
But I agree with @agdr03, the scar seemed to be missing from LG when he has that garish pink cardigan (?) on in the hotel. And then it was there again when he had chicken with her in the restaurant. So I am not sure if they just forgot to draw it on him or if it was deliberate 😂. I don’t think you can avoid looking at his neck because his fashion choices are just atrocious.
Even in the bathrobe pics above, is his scar there or not?
Sorry it’s long. 😱
– I liked the way LG put reasoning to TE on why he wanted her to be his Queen and really his reason was pure and simple, he really wants to be with her even if for her it’s all crazy.
– I’m not sure with Sin-jae. He’s had a crush on TE for a long time though. Maybe those royal logo that he drew were from the dead body from the trunk? But what’s with the guy and the money? He said he’d better be there at the next crackdown so he can be promoted.
– Jogon Jogon (JJ) is pretty useful and a smart move by HCL to hire Myeong-Mira.
– It’s the leopard polo shirt that made it funny with Jang Michael . 😂
– HCL asked Captain Jo if he knows his style with women and he has that look on his face then he looked down. 🤔 He also made that comment that she won’t even get along well with LG because you can tell she’s not a science kind of person.
– There’s something about the Unbreakable Sword reference that LG referred to Captain Jo and Eun-sup.
– Main Gate of Haeungung Palace.
– Those crunchy chicken sure looks yummy. 😋
– I’m crushing on Maximus too. 🥰 I loved that scene where LG was scolding him for not eating the carrot that TE gave him. 😂
– When Captain Jo asked the question of whats been added to LG while looking at his empty desk, after they showed their conversation about Lee Lim, I feel that he knows that there’s something more to LG like the mysterious stuff.
– I thought it was funny that LG finally got back with her when she hangs up the phone to him all the time. 😂
– Ha! Look at a King run to his car troubled Queen. I bet he’d never done that in KOC. 😄
– Oh I liked that suspended look of TE while tying her hair, she looked pretty there. No wonder LG was mesmerised.
– I liked the fighting scene with LG. I thought it was cool! 😎 And his face had more expression then! 😆
– Interesting, Jo’s hot coffee was felt by Eun-Sup.
– Now I see TE missing the crazy King guy. I’m glad LG and TE were able to share a bit of how they grew up. That part probably made her comfortable with him.
– HCL really dislikes the PM. After seeing PM being rude to her, I’m with the HCL.
– Oh I’m glad LG rebuked her claim that she’s indebted to him. Good one!
– Aww glad to see that hug with the HCL.
– Lol at ID – King which is used up to 987.
– The white haired man who was with the PM must be the one who got those scandal pics for one of the cabinet members?
– TE tying her hair on a few scenes definitely reminds LG of her ID picture that he’s kept all this years. And voila! She got a new ID and it’s the one that LG had all those years.
– Sin-jae’s Mom in KOC is the one that poured tea for HCL and Myeong Mi-ra(Jo’s admirer) during her job interview. She’s also the woman who saw the boy with the yo-yo. I think she’s the mole in the palace put by uncle.
– It is the same boy who accidentally bumped into TE and made her lose her card.
– I watched the introduction scene with the thunder and it looks the same as the one that LG has in those two instances where he was hurting on the back of his shoulder.
Oh that ending was good! She’s over to KOC. That made it really exciting now. ☺️
My random thoughts:
Improvements – The minute show finally introduced more intimate conversations between the characters, the show went up a couple of notches in interest level. We can start (and I hope we continue) to connect with LG’s character.
The camaraderie between the silent Yeong, OCL and LG was fun to watch. LG goes into petulant child mode with OCL to complain about Yeong and OCL totally ignores his complaints. That was cute!
The other scene which was amusing and made the characters relatable, was when Royal Secretary was with LG and Yeong in the office and LG felt the pain in his shoulder. The look Secretary gave LG and Yeong, when he said he only wanted Yeong to see his shoulder and not to tell OCL about it, made me shout with laughter. Also I loved that impassive Yeong actually had an exasperated look on his face when asked to look at the shoulder.
The pre-emptive scenes are now being given their proper place in Ep 4. So we see how JTE’s ID card was lost, we know now how come it was OCL’s voice reading the poem in the book, Azaleas.
Slowly the plot progresses … we see there is a connection between Lee Sang Do whose phone has a voice recording of the news mentioning Lee Jong In’s name.
Outstanding question of interest – who is the mole in the palace. The new guy who dresses the King?
Same Wavelength – I like that both LG over the autopsy report and JTE over the Lee Sang Do perfect evidence on the evidence board followed their hunches and saw the evidence as a sign of something else. And that both did not give in to what was an easy solution but continued to poke and pry to out the truth. And I guess it can be coincidence but the being misled by evidence is being done to them by the same person, LL.
I hope Prince Buyeong does not get offed before he can reveal the truth, and that OCL who also knows plenty, stays safe! Her words to LG – “Must I die to make you come back” – worries me as a wish fulfilling prophecy or something.
PM Koo – I would like to know if she has a parallel in ROK. A dishevelled, unambitious mother of 3 or something. Heh!
I don’t like her pushiness and she literally pushed poor OCL and forced her way into the King’s office. I felt he should have rebuked her for bad behaviour and for ill treating his faithful OCL.
Lee Lim (LL) – Based on the same guesswork as to coincidence of time and when it stood still and when the King was in or out of the palace, he comes to the same conclusion as LG. But at least he had 2 experiences of it and confirmation from a mole in the palace, whereas LG just ‘calculated’ it from the first instance of time standing still.
Clashing Universes – So now ice cold latte held by Jo Eun Sub feels hot like the hot coffee spilled by Jo Yeong.
Also when it rained in ROK it also rained in KOC twice that I noticed. Once when JTE went to the bamboo forest to look around, there was the sound of rain and we cut to KOC where it’s raining… then Jo Yeong calls him and time stood still.
The other time was when JTE passes by the bench where time had first stood still for LG. It started to rain and she ran off. In KOC it’s raining and when lightning strikes, LG feels the pain in the lower part of his right shoulder. I’ve got to re-watch to see if that’s where JTE hit him … I thought she hit him on the left as she passed behind him from his left to his right.
Might these be the signs that the universes are starting to collide or converge or something. Any physicists around here who can maybe throw light on this?
Lee Gon – For all that he feels entitled to as King, he is still reasonable, suitably humble and real when he describes himself as a rower, a mathematician, a well-grown orphan and the owner of the Four Tiger Sword.
I like that he is always measured and truthful. He doesn’t have much of a sense of humour, but is not above teasing and playing a joke on his friends.
Interesting that in his jacket pocket was a soft toy… was that a key chain or something? And JTE has one like it but hers was a lion. Might it be a couple something they both bought together?
Books – I mentioned how books are important for the conveying of messages, for hiding something important, and now as a gift. The book of poems, Azaleas : selected poems of Kim So Wol has moved from ROK to KOC. We heard OCL’s voiceover reading the sad poem, Invocation of the Dead.
It is also interesting that another book was brought in by LL from ROK to KOC.
Four Tiger Sword – LG’s mention that he’s the owner of this object suddenly reminded me of its existence. It does not overtly seem to be magical, but @pkml3 noted that it was so heavy and yet child LG could lift it high and slice with it. LG’s father read the words on the sword and said it was the calling of the sword upon it’s owner who was the King. This made me wonder if the sword migh also be able to call to the King like the flute.
It’s interesting to note that after leaving it in the dilapidated remains of the building for over 2 decades, LG now ensconces it in his quarters, next to his bed. He is preparing for the return of LL and this time, he wants to be the one to wield the sword.
Strange that he never cared for the sword before, and seems to have left it unguarded even. It was housed among the treasures of the palace after all, and should have been better cared for.
Romance done Right? – Being a kdrama, I guess we couldn’t get away from it. We are brought to Nov 11, Singles’ Day, when singles give out sweets or Pepero sticks to wish each other romance and love I think. Not only that, it was the day of the first snow. Then LG calls JTE and she becomes a flustered female rushing out to meet him. He offers to bring her to his world and it starts to snow. He literally places her on his magnificent white horse and rides off with her. When she hesitates and threatens he tells her to trust him. She does and they end off through the portal (Looking Glass) staring at each other as he finally tells her his name. I was chuckling throughout and admiring the execution of this at the same time.
There is, I believe, a significance in giving one’s name, especially for a higher up person to give it to one of a lower level. More so in some other cultures maybe and less so in Korea where everyone introduces themselves with their name. However they follow a rule of politeness where they call each other by designation rather than name most of the time. Giving her his name can mean that LG allowed JTE to have a certain power over him.
Anyway, this is probably a scene for The Swoon on YouTube. Swoonworthy indeed!
“I don’t think you can avoid looking at his neck because his fashion choices are just atrocious.”
@nrllee, he seems to wear a lot of low cut tops and sweaters when he’s relaxing in the RoK and he wears more high-collared things in the KoC. The fashion looks a lot like current k-pop type designer clothes to me, so he may just be fashion forward to us. In ep 4, when LG and Tae-Eul are strolling in the woods, he’s wearing a v-neck pullover, but the neck is very low. I was trying to spot his scar but it was tricky because of the lack of resolution on my computer.
@agdr03, my impression about the logo and Sin-Jae is that he may have drawn it from something in or near the hardware store – could have been an impression from the handle of the umbrella? It was also on the bank notes and credit cards Tae-Eul took from LG. He questioned LG about it, because he suspected that he might be involved somehow, but didn’t get a straight answer.
The burner phone Sin-Jae found and gave to Tae-Eul contained a recording of the news and a mention of Professor Lee Jong-In. Lee Jong In is also Prince Byeong’s name. 1. Either the news is from the KoC where Lee Jong-In is presently or 2. it’s from the RoK and Lee Jong In has crossed the portal 3. or someone with the same name (co-incidence?) is there, too. There can’t be coincidences, though, can there? There might be other explanations, too.
@packmule, please let me know what is your take on the zero/negative 1 conversation with the PM. For a split second, I thought it could be a connecting point between LG and the PM, but she over-stepped and got corrected. Does -1 reference her power to reverse a situation?
How much does Old Court Lady know?
She says to LG “Must I die to make you come back? How are you going to make it to my funeral if you travel so far away?” – She seems to know just how far away he was.
When she asked about the missing buttons, he said ‘They have a different kind of currency.” And she didn’t blink at that at all.
Words that will have to be eaten
Jo Yeong said that the girl LG was chasing was totally not his type at all. He’s wrong. Of course if LG had met Luna instead of JTE, he may not end up thinking Luna cool and might not like her, the way he admires JTE.
We’ve been missing Luna.
PM’s parallel still not shown.
Did we ever see Prince Buyeong’s parallel? We only heard his actual name in the news in ROK. So that means Buyeong travels to ROK too… but how, since he does not have a piece of the flute?
@Growing Beautifully (GB), ‘Interesting that in his jacket pocket was a soft toy… was that a key chain or something? And JTE has one like it but hers was a lion. Might it be a couple something they both bought together?’
Perhaps a lion is the king of beasts? He called her a bear at about 3m30 in ep. 3. She was very insulted and said she would come to his kingdome, ‘I’ll go and proclaim myself the mother of the people.’ which is a legend. I can’t find cultural reference to a lion as such in Korea, only tiger or Haetae, is a lion-like horned creature that often appears in myths as a guardian against fire and disasters.
Into ep. 3 but my eyes are already heavy so I am calling it a day. Before I forget, some notes:
– LG has no alternate in ROK because he was killed when he was young. No fingerprints probably because the child did not yet meet the mandatory age for its registration i.e. 17 y.o. (as suggested by forensic officer)/ parents didn’t consent to it – need to check with my friend if the registration of fingerprints for child under 4 y.o. without parental consent still applicable these days. As for dna, probably been deleted. I think the mother changed identity or something. Evil uncle sure did something. Else how did she escape the cop suspicions in death of husband and son?
-lady that went into the bookstore is the lady that served tea to OCL. So probably she was the one gave note about LG not in palace.
– did evil uncle found alternate of his righthand man in ROK and recruit him? The KOC ones stays at KOC operating the bookstore, different hairstyle.
– can I kick the makeup artists in charged of the neck wound in the shin, pretty please? Consistency is important! Not ‘now you see me, now you don’t’🤦♀️ conveniently high neck tops were used to cover them. So, less needs to prep for the wound, eh?
– time stops whenever someone crosses the portal.
– the crack on LG shoulder does it mean sign of impending dangers/ his time is up and he needs to return?
– use of mathematical terms in casual dialog is refreshing.
– OCL lady thought the talisman actual worked after hearing LG was chasing after a girl, cute.
– I am seeing so many familiar faces, including those recently gracing Hospital Playlist, I’m getting a dejavu.
– Jang Michael is my new crack! My saviour 😍
– what’s up with the hairstyles between alternates in ROK vs KOC. Either it is long messy or smart🤷♀️🤷♀️ where is the person in charge again?👿
Ok, off to bed.😴
I hope that this drama is like a symphony by Mahler: it greatly improves after multiple listenings/viewings.
I am now very confused by Lee Lim’s right-hand man. As pointed out before, it seems two actors play him. The first, during the 1994 assassination of King Lee Ho, is played by Yoon Joo Man (who was YooJo, Dong Mae’s right-hand man in Mr. Sunshine). We next see this actor/character with damaged skin on his right shoulder as a laborer at a salt farm. He reads a newspaper headline about the traitorous prince’s tragic end, so the salt farm is in KOC. He goes back to work, the show dramatically indicates passage of time, and then Lee Lim walks into the scene with his flute-handle umbrella. Laborer with same clothes as before and scarred skin on right shoulder (so same character?) recognizes LL and bows before him, but this is a different actor than before. Is it the same character, or not? Laborer says it has been more than a decade since he saw LL. LL says he wants to show this character a different world. Then we see the 2nd actor, cleaned up, accompanying LL during the painting of the historic building and at the birthday party for the wheelchair-bound boy. Is it the same character as #2 laborer at the salt farm?
What my interpretation was before:
– Different actors played the same character, but were a clumsy way to show ten years of aging
-LL telling salt laborer he wanted to show him a different world meant he was brought from KOC to ROK.
-Actor #2’s KOC character becomes LL’s right-hand man in ROK.
But wait! Then we see Actor #2 with different style as a bookshop owner in KOC. Is this the same character, or a different character? To make me even more confused, we see Actor #2 again playing right-hand man to LL in ROK. LL and this character openly discuss the existence of this character’s parallel back in KOC as the bookshop owner.
My best attempt to explain:
-LL showed Salt Guy the parallel world, but Salt Guy stayed in, or returned to, KOC and became a bookshop owner.
-LL connected to Salt Guy parallel in ROK, who became LL’s associate in ROK. LL tells this associate about KOC, and associate believes him.
I have yet to see if all this confusion is because I’m being trolled, or if Drama has made mistakes.
“ Laborer with same clothes as before and scarred skin on right shoulder (so same character?) recognizes LL and bows before him, but this is a different actor than before”
My take is that the actor aged so they got someone else to play him but yes same character? Also he had a scar on his right shoulder? That’s where the lightning zap thing occured with LG. A link maybe? I thought it was odd that it would be a shoulder thing because his scar (whilst on his right) was on his neck and if they wanted to highlight some link they would’ve shown how the current radiated from his neck scar but it didn’t seem to happen that way.
@Fern, yes, that soft toy. In a couple exchange of similar couple things, the girl will keep the boy’s article and vice versa. So JTE had the lion but I couldn’t tell if the soft toy that LG had in his pocket was a bear or not. Also, at this stage, they are not yet in the couple exchange phase, so I’m not sure why we are shown those similar soft toys.
Of some significance, is that LG wanted that soft toy to be kept in, what was it… the royal museum? or somewhere ‘treasures’ are stored. So it is precious to him. Anyway, I file this away as something that might be of importance later. 😄
I should have added the better description of himself and the part that warmed my heart towards him was that he also said that he is: “The kind of King who has never been asked such a question and is trying his best not to panic.” A sign that although he didn’t show it, JTE flustered him… human and relatable.
I am beginning to like this rather stiff, young King, who after the traumatic events of his childhood, seems to have got it together. No self-pity or neediness, no drinking (as in wine, women and song) or weird habits. He exercises, taking care of his health. He is under no illusions about what his title entails, and although he has no choice, he accepts his role without complaint, and carries out most of his work responsibly, until he decides to disappear.
He is sensible, thinks on his feet, does not depend on advisors and has an affectionate nature. I like his calm and almost detached thinking and how he gets into action once he has made a decision.
I like that he remembered to speak to Yeong as a friend and that he hugged OCL and apologised properly.
When he told off PM Koo, he did so with aplomb and dignity, without histrionics.
I like that when it occurred to him that the pain in his shoulder might auger ill in ROK, he rushed over to check on JTE, not forgetting to bring something in repayment for the ones who had helped him before in ROK. (I couldn’t see what small object he grabbed from his drawer, but I guess it might have been gold?) He is consistent, reliable, trust worthy, intelligent and confident. That oozes loads of charm right there.
So I’m not on Shallow Island, but if there’s a constant boat trip around the waters of KOC and ROC from Cynical Island, I’ll happily sip my cocktails on deck, watching the show play out.
I couldn’t agree more with what you said about LG, @GB ☺️
I especially liked that he hugged HCL and he knew Yeong was upset with him so he did asked him how long will he get the silent treatment. They are pretty much his family.
I liked that it snowed for the first time when LG and TE went on a horse ride together and she finally realised that what he’s saying was all true.
Hi @agdr, yes, we both like the softer side of LG, when he decides to take off the kingly hat for a bit. OCL/HCL, Yeong and maybe Uncle Buyeong are about the only family he seems to have.
I too was a bit impatient of TJE refusing to see that the “world is round” for so long, or at least, that she refused to acknowledge even to herself, that she was beginning to doubt her flat world. November 11 is the ideal time for her to give LG a chance to prove that what he has been saying has been true all along.
Mirror (Alternative) Thoughts – A thought that struck me as I recalled saying that LG brings JTE into his world, through the Looking Glass. So now, passing through the portal, the roles are reversed. Now JTE is ‘Alice’ who is in a world reversed, and she’ll be like a fish out of water.
I’m intrigued by the thought that a bunch of seemingly unconnected happenings might crop up, as it did for Alice, but all with a common denominator somewhere. I have felt on and off, and others who still watch and those have dropped this show may agree, that it’s been a bit willy-nilly at times since Episode 1 … like in a dream. I’ve complained about the editing, but maybe it’s deliberate. We cut to scene after unconnected scene, like Alice did on the other side of the Looking Glass. Maybe it’s so that we experience the same discomfort, as we join in Alice’s adventures in her wonderland and looking glass dreams.
I’m also intrigued by the fact that in the Looking Glass, the Red King sleeps and possibly dreams, and that as proposed by Tweedledum and Tweedledee, Alice/JTE is only a figment of the Red King’s/LG’s dreams. Taking this a step further, … so in which universe is the dream being dreamed? Who is the dreamer and whom the figment? Can both JTE and LG be real and dreamt, because both dreamed of each other? Is it more likely that it is JTE in a real world, dreaming up a magic flute and a handsome king out to whisk her away? 😅 😁
“November 11 is the ideal time for her to give LG a chance to prove that what he has been saying has been true all along.”
Yes, so she goes without hesitation and I have to say I wanted to have a horse ride with LG too. LOL. She’s been pondering about him since he went back where he came from so it’s good that she’s now in KOC by episode 4.
“I’d like to see if he is JTE’s Unbreakable Sword. I believe he will defend her to the death, although he’s missed all his chances to win her heart romantically. Maybe the parallel of PM Kon could be found in ROK to be the girl for him???”
True, Sin-jae was the one whose supposed to be on the right side but very close to the wrong side as told by TE’s Dad? Something like that. I think at one point he might go to the wrong side, we will see. I really don’t like the PM but the fact that she visits her Mom and spends time with her is good for me.
“Oh dear, Myung Mi Ra and her deliberate false reporting of the relationship between Yeong and LG.”
I thought it was funny with the comment – Gon Jo couple is real. LOL.
“I wonder if although Jo Yeong and Eun Sup have different backgrounds, their personalities are the same or at least similar.”
I just hope that both of them will be the Unbreakable Sword for LG. 🙂
@agdr03, True, I’d forgotten that unpleasant PM Koo, did still go home to mummy. Typical as any well cared for, and somewhat entitled offspring, she just plunges into bed and demands soup from her mum.
However, she had planned that trip telling her mum to appear to be open but not necessarily to sell anything … so maybe it was just one of her publicity ploys as well, to appear to be the filial daughter, unashamed of her lowly roots.
That umbrella in her home is concerning. Evil LL is keeping an eye on her in person! Since she projects the image that she’s tight with the King, LL’s attention is naturally drawn towards her, but for him to be right on the spot in her mum’s shop is scary. I’d think his goons are watching her constantly from a distance.
Would any of the folks around remember what the dead LL looked like and wonder how come a doppelganger has turned up? Since he looks exactly as he did, those old enough might remember him and be puzzled that he is not quite dead.
He’s been away for some years, but now with the portal being active, he too is back in KOC, but he’s risking being recognised. So I will not be surprised if the incidence of death rises as he kills anyone who recognises him.
Yeah I liked the visit to her Mom but the way she demanded food was not nice and everything else as yeah it looks like it’s all a plan and for public relations only. 😁
I agree too about that umbrella, uncle is definitely watching her and her people. The people from the market should recognise the uncle like you said.
We will see what happens when he shows up.
‘My best attempt to explain:
-LL showed Salt Guy the parallel world, but Salt Guy stayed in, or returned to, KOC and became a bookshop owner.
-LL connected to Salt Guy parallel in ROK, who became LL’s associate in ROK. LL tells this associate about KOC, and associate believes him.’
@Welmaris, this is my understanding from first watch as well. The use of different actors/actresses to indicate aging is really…haish. The first Salt guy has tanned skin which fits much better into his role as the errr, Salt guy. But he miraculously turned fair after, what 20 years of working under the sun? *roll eyes* LL could use KOC-Salt Guy by bringing him over to ROK to influence and convince ROK-Salt Guy. On the contrary, I think the actresses chosen as LG’s ROK mom are ok. So, LG’s mom in KOC is dead but her alternate is alive in ROK. Would love to see how’s that gonna unfold. Will she help/protect LG? or succumb to LL’s pressure?
@Miracle23, I was also confused by the depiction of LG’s mom parallel in ep. 4. When we saw her in an earlier episode buying flowers for her dead son’s birthday, she dressed and had makeup like a classy lady, but then she’s on her hands and knees scrubbing a floor in ep. 4. Not that classy ladies can’t also do menial labor, but what conclusions are we supposed to be drawing about her? Seems like mixed signals. I’m going to have to go back to listen to her conversation with LL in ep. 4.
Ep4 was much much better. I agree with some of you here. I am starting to really like LG as a character (LMH seems to be getting better after a jittery start? Don’t know. I am trying to work out if it’s because he’s finally settled into his role and improved and I am warming up to him or if it’s KGE who is my barometer – TE obviously misses him now so I may just be going along with her 🤣). Things I liked
– the ROC scenes.
– the library scene in parallel. That was nicely done. I am not quite feeling the longing between the pair but it’s still nicely done.
– I am also liking calm understated ShinJae who is trying so hard to turn his life around. Which is going to be a problem because it’s blatantly obvious that he’s fallen for TE. 😕
– the family around LG. No OkNam (henceforth to be called Yoda by me). Severe bodyguard JoYoung. And to a certain extent even elderly scholar Prince who is in line to the throne. I feel if Yoda trusts him, so should LG.
– Euler’s number (e). 2.71828….
Like the constant π, e is also irrational (i.e. it cannot be represented as ratio of integers) and transcendental (i.e. it is not a root of any non-zero polynomial with rational coefficients).
– TE munching on a carrot (is she missing Maximus or is that alluding to the White Rabbit?)
– lame excuses for “coming back” – I owed $, I needed 2 more stamps on my coupon…tacked on with “I wanted to see you”. Gah…that was smooth. 😂
– Nov 11… 11/11. Parallel lines. Very nice.
– Maximus… That last scene… gah… so much swoon… I am still on Cynical Island but man I need a stiff drink… bitter regrets bar here I come. Why didn’t I sign up for horseback riding with LG at the launch party. Deep regrets now. 😂
Dislikes
– pushy female PM – esp. when she shoved Yoda aside 😡
– the fact that I am still trying to work out some of the characters. Is the woman cleaning in the house (she looked like she was locked up) alternate Universe LG’s mother? I can’t remember her face. She definitely looks familiar?
Oho, shinjae’s mom is the tea serving lady and one who went into the bookstore. Yep @agdr03, a possible mole indeed! So, are we gonna see Shinjae’s alternate too? If Yeong and his alternate can have that intercepting moments when someone uses the portal, possible that shinjae might be getting something, hence the logo he has been drawing, perhaps from memory or his dreams.🤷♀️ Everyone should have their alternates unless either one meet their demise earlier than the other.
“Why didn’t I sign up for horseback riding with LG at the launch party. Deep regrets now.”
I knew someone was with me on the horseback riding with LG. 😂 I believe @Phoenix will join us too.
That scene was swoon worthy especially when he held on to her tight. 🥰
The woman cleaning the floor was young LG’s Mom in ROK. She even asked him how come you’ve not aged at all?.
@miracle23, does Shinjae’s character have an alternate in KOC? I didn’t think I saw him having an alternate on the character introduction map.
But yes, his dreams as mentioned will definitely connect to something or someone. Let’s wait and see. 😊
“@miracle23, does Shinjae’s character have an alternate in KOC?”
@agdr03, I am not sure. But since his mother was there, he should be as well unless he died early on. In the preview TE mentioned about “He is Kang Shin Jae of KOC”. Have to see in what context the dialog was said. His dreams were mentioned again in the preview. He’s probably be getting this images from his alternate self in KOC.
Just done with ep. 4. I am still not 100% into this. kekeke… I have problems with heavily romance-endorsed drama. Haven’t been watching that kind of drama for ages. So, I can’t really appreciate those long shots of longing looks and whatnot that took a lot of the screen time. At the moment I am staying for the mystery and the math. I find it is simple to deduct so far. My initial guess on LL’s first impression of time stopping is correct. He knew somebody used the portal. I think he was in doubt of who held the other half of the flute and he was waiting for the holder to use the portal. His guess was correct that it is LG since he put two and two together i.e. him missing from palace and returning. Now he will begin his plan. I hope the old uncle is misunderstood. I like him. I don’t get the impression that he is the bad guy. He was just trying to help. But maybe in doing so, he realised he will eventually be putting his family in danger because of LL’s involvement in this. He should let LG know that he knew LL is alive/ of his suspicion about LL’s death. LL keeps LG’s ROK-Mom like a prisoner. She is gonna be a bait to destroy LG.
Shinjae doesn’t have an alternate in KOC after checking the character chart. So it’ll have to do something with his dreams.
Me too, I like the old prince. Hopefully he will discuss with LG about the autopsy for LL.
I’m worried about Prince Buyeong. His was the last negative developed by evil uncle whose art hobbies are mirroring my sister-out-law’s during lockdown.
Ref the PM: Pollack soup is traditional for hangovers in Korea.
I agree with @nrllee, “Ep4 was much much better. I agree with some of you here. I am starting to really like LG as a character (LMH seems to be getting better after a jittery start?…”
I know that the lady at the cemetery was supposed to be LG’s double’s mother, but she looked so different. Must be the makeup.
I was going to watch parts again to see if PM’s secretary is also LG’s valet, but must get to work.
“ I’m worried about Prince Buyeong. ”
Yeah I am with you there. I can’t see Evil Uncle being so benevolent that he will let him live (even if he does promise never to cause trouble). LG trying to force him to pick a side is almost foreshadowing his death? 😬
Did anyone think there was a time skip? I thought it was odd that TE handed in the form and asked when her new ID tag would be ready and the lady replied usually in a few weeks…then TE said, “O so end of Oct then?”…then when ShinJae hands her the ID tag, she looks at the back and sees that it’s 11Nov. Which was “today”…she didn’t seem to think that it was Nov11 and the boys had to tell her that it was? Unless I missed something?
I caught that too @nellee but I just assumed that the weeks had gone by and she didn’t notice the date anymore. She worked and worked so she doesn’t think of LG. I could be wrong. ☺️
@agdr03 yeah maybe she just lost track of time/dates.
@Stardust
About JTE hitting LG on the shoulder, I saw it again in a MV and it was his left side that she hit. He even rubbed his left shoulder after this, with a smile on his face. So the fiery web thing and pain is likely not related to that physical contact.
I’m working on The King post. I’ll be up by the time you wake up. :). Will open a thread for Piece of Your Mind too. I forgot to schedule one last night.
Let me prep for a work call first. 🙂
Yey! Thanks in advance! 🍪☕️
Yeah, I’m looking forward to APOYM even if it’s finishing this week. I actually have Memorist ending too so I should be able to start on something else. ☺️
I already had coffee. 🤣 I know what you mean. Okay, my meeting is starting in 6 minutes. See ya.
That’s for later. 🤣
🙇🏻♀️
@GB thanks for that clarification about the shoulder hit.
@nrllee and @agdr03, TE had been told her new badge would be ready by the end of October, I think she lost track of time, but ShinJae also told her that her application for the replacement ID had been misplaced, which lengthened the time it took to be processed. She had been so cocky when she turned in the form and heard she’d get her new ID issued by the end of October instead of the date LG told her was on the ID of hers he’s had for 25 years. The look on her face when she realized he was right after all…that was some damn fine acting.
Wenchanteur and others, too,
You wrote this:
“The King has a certain personality, but perhaps people have difficulty detecting it, because it is the personality of someone who is peaceful. Very involved in his duty, I liked his repartee in Episode 4, to Prime Minister Koo: ‘Every moment of my life is the history of the kingdom of Korea. And I want this history to last forever because I am the king of this country. But it will require much more than my benevolence. So I can never be indebted to you.'”
What do you think he was talking about there? Why did you find that witty? Would you rephrase that in any other way? lol.
@pkml3 and Everyone
Truthfully, I was trying to understand the nuances in that spate of words he tossed at PM Koo. Don’t think I’ve actually got a handle on them, but I was thinking of trying to decipher them, and you’ve given us the chance!
PM Koo : I didn’t come to report. I came to see if you were missing. I’m glad I came. (Her expression becomes serious, even a bit grim). You’re indebted to me now, your Majesty.
(She gives a self satisfied smirk) Good luck with solving this one. [as in good luck solving this puzzle of him having to owe her something.]
[Before going into what the King says, I was questioning what she thinks she did that he owes her anything at all. How does her turning up at the palace help him in anyway – except that she might mean, that even if he hadn’t been there, her very act of visiting the palace would have dispelled rumours that he wasn’t there].
LG : PM Koo, let me tell you something. I didn’t want to offend you, but this won’t sound pleasant.
LG :‘Every moment of my life is the history of the kingdom of Corea.’ – [We often think of history as a recording of the past, especially of significant parts of the past that we wish to remember and refer to.
Our current lives and decisions are continually becoming history and determining the history of the future.
The word is also made up of his + story. Since we are dealing with the King here, we are watching The King’s/His Story unfold.
Because he is the King, everything he does/doesn’t do… his whole life affects the country. His Story is also the Country’s Story. His life = the History of the Kingdom of Corea.]
‘And I want this history to last forever because I am the king of this country.’ – [He is tying his life story together with the country’s story. It’s as if he says, as long as he lives, the Kingdom has a story. He wants the Kingdom to have a long history or a forever history, so the King has to live long or forever.
Or conversely, he wants to live forever. Of course the kingdom will continue even if he dies, but he does not want to consider that. If that happens, then without him, it won’t be the His + Story of Corea.]
‘But it will require much more than my benevolence.’ – [This was in reference to her saying that he owed her. She had barged in and broken protocol. She was actually at fault. By rights she could be punished, but the King hadn’t demurred at her bad behaviour. He was being benevolent and polite so far.
But at the words that he owed her, he is making it clear that he had done much more than accorded her benevolence (kindness) in not punishing her. His normal response should have been ‘Off with her head’. By pardoning her he was being a lot more than just benevolent, but even merciful, just, patient, generous, etc as well.]
‘So I can never be indebted to you.’ – [What she had done was so far beneath what was right or helpful to him, was so much in contradiction to what he wanted (ie to be left in peace without her), that he owed her nothing. In fact, she owed him her life, since he could have had her beheaded.
She was arrogant enough to think she could treat him as an equal, as if he needed a favour from her. LG was disabusing her of this self-deception. And hinting that she owed him big time.]
Forgot this … if we take this part together And I want this history to last forever because I am the king of this country. But it will require much more than my benevolence.’ – [I want Corea (and its history) to last forever and for this to happen, I can’t be just a benevolent king. When punishment and harshness is due, I have to mete it out. It’s not that you’ve gotten away with doing something praiseworthy, it’s just that I choose not to take issue with you. But it won’t be the case the next time.]
‘So I can never be indebted to you.’ – [Next time I won’t even owe you the punishment you deserve.]
I was puzzled by the exchange and wondered if it had been translated awkwardly or that I was missing nuances or innuendos.
‘And I want this history to last forever because I am the king of this country.’ It reminded me of his time looking over the history of RoK in the library. Of course there was no mention of KoC – as though it no longer existed, whereas to him it did. It could be a foreshadowing of what he thinks may happen if the evil uncle triumphs.
‘But it will require much more than my benevolence.’ Both directed to her as well as to the situation he’s in. I like @GB’s interpretation that he might let her get away with it once, but not again. This echos Shin-Jae’s words to him about being tolerant the first time, but not again.
I wasn’t thinking about alternatives to benevolence – merciful, just, patience as @GB says. I like @GB’s thoughts. I had been thinking about the opposite of benevolence; traits that he might have to use to protect his country: mercilessness, ruthlessness,grimness, severity, etc.
I was thinking that the viewers don’t really have any idea of what his day to day politics and public activities are and how he impacts his people, other than his love for mathematics, sport and being photogenic. I doubt that he is a despot. It hasn’t been mentioned that in KoC there is a huge disparity between rich and poor; education and uneducated; strong and weak. Now that he’s emoting and giving background, it seems unlikely. Class divide definitely exists.
When Tae-Eul asked him what sort of king he was, he replied that the question made him panic. I think he is considered benevolent. It seems more that he has been privately training since he was 8 for this sort of major conflict to appear. How he will handle it – using alternatives or opposites of his normal benevolence – will mark his place in history, hence the panic. He admired Tae-Eul’s statement that she decided to become brave; it was a choice. She didn’t say she was brave, but worked to be that way and I think he appreciates that. By the time LG speaks to the PM, he has accepted that benevolence won’t be enough.
@Fern
Me too. I can’t really find alternative subs, therefore I make do with the subs I have which puzzled me.
Good point. He had been reading history for 3 days in the library. I forgot about that! It may have shaken him to know that the kingdom of his universe had ended with his ancestor, never to be reinstated in ROK.
When did Shin Jae tell him about not being tolerant a 2nd time? Was it when they first spoke and Shin Jae went off for chicken and beer?
I felt that his panic was due to the fact that he had never been questioned in that way by anyone before, but he had to give a good answer to TE. TE had asked him what kind of King he was, asking if he was young, handsome etc… He felt that he had to justify himself, that he wasn’t just a pretty face. Above all, the one person whom he wanted the approval of, was TE, but she was skeptical and rude towards him. He felt pressured to give her an answer that would impress her, and do away with her bad opinion of him, after admitting that he, himself had been impressed by her (for choosing to be brave). Therefore, he panicked.
@Growing Beautifully (GB), ‘When did Shin Jae tell him about not being tolerant a 2nd time? Was it when they first spoke and Shin Jae went off for chicken and beer?’ It was the first time they met in Tae-Eul’s yard and LG pulled Shin Jae’s hood up over his head.
Thanks @Fern!
I’m sorry if my question bother you all, because honestly I can’t read every comments here.
but do you guys think LG loves TE? like real love? how could he?
I mean, sure he thinks one of the reasons he still alive till now is TE existed and he feels he isn’t alone after all, but does the reason cool enough to claim that he’s in love with TE?
I’m a person who doesn’t believe a sudden love (TE’s -round earth- style) LOL
“but do you guys think LG loves TE? like real love? how could he?”
We know LG was only 8 years old when he’d gotten TE’s ID card and the incident was a tragedy because his father died and he almost did too. I can imagine him having that impression on his saviour turning into love. He was young and innocent in love but for him she was there. He didn’t forget her and he will always be curious about her.
After finally meeting her, he never lied about anything, who and where he came from. He was determined to get to know her and I felt his admiration turned into love. I mean that last scene where LG told the guards and even Yeong to take 10 steps back because he felt how shocked TE was. He’s conscious of her. He’s even showing jealous signs already with Shinjae. So yeah I can believe that’s he’s fallen in love with her.
Good answer. Good answer.
I’m working on a post for @growing_beautifully. Will be back later.
@yellow-grass, I think it has been a progression that is continuing. It started out with him thinking she was the rescuer, but he realised that it couldn’t be her due to her height, but rather someone related to her. Still he was obsessed with finding her because of having her ID. He said that he was thankful for finding her. As agdr03 says, his admiration grows and like is turning the corner into love. I suspect that this is his first love ever, although he may have liked some women before.
I agree, too.
I don’t think it’s real love yet. Probably a “romantic” love based on his romantic fantasies about her for 25 years. But he’s learning.
I think it will hit him hard if he’s had little or no experience. He already said that she isn’t as soft as he imagined, so his fantasy love is getting more realistic.
It’s interesting that he said he never drinks during the MSD scene. I took that to mean even in private. I wonder if he has been that way about women as well. Perhaps due to perpetual scrutiny and being a historical figure he has wished to be above reproach. We are aware of the problems real-life royalty have with scrutiny.
I feel he’s never had any girlfriend judging from all the shaman envelopes that the OCL puts around his room. But I feel he is learning with TE. I like that he just communicates with her openly and he can gauge her with that. He takes it in stride with how she responds to him.
I thought he asked Yeong to have a drink in episode 1? But Yeong declined because he wants him to agree in wearing the bulletproof vest. But yeah, I don’t think he will ever drink outside the palace. He knows his position like even at 8, I admired him when he announced that his uncle will be denounced of his title and will be punished for his crimes. I thought yup he’s the CP alright. 😁
thank you very much @agdr03 and @Fern for enlighten me, and @packmule3 too
I do agree if LG’s still learning about his feeling towards TE. that’s the wisest situation for him, at least till this 4 eps.
I should put myself in his shoes to understand him better. his trauma about the coup is very vivid. and also his memory about his saviour. he’s a genius man, I believe he has a lot of kind of theories in his head, not to mention maybe 50% of them is about TE.
now, it kinda remind me of Kim Shin’s love to Ji Eun Tak.
@agdr03, “I thought he asked Yeong to have a drink in episode 1? But Yeong declined because he wants him to agree in wearing the bulletproof vest.” You are right, I forgot about that because he stated to Tae-Eul that he never drinks. Perhaps the translation is off, or he never drinks higher level alcoholic drinks like soju. Wasn’t it a beer with Yeong?
Haha. Maybe he’s a lightweight like I’ve become.
@Fern actually LG stated he never drinks (or eats) anything that hasn’t been tasted beforehand.
that’s why he refuses to drink the “So-maek” which TE make for him. remember in ep 3 when TE’s car needs a service, she call her dad for help, but instead it’s LG who accept her call meanwhile he’s drinking a cup of coffee in TE’s home. he proudly told TE how kind TE’s dad because he gave him coffee and even taste it.
LOL. what a King indeed.
because I recalled this scene, I’d like to say how I love whenever LG calls TE with 자네 or ja-ne (means “you”). it’s an old way to call someone with that word, moreover to call a woman, and also it’s a polite manner to call someone younger.
it’s my first time to hear 자네 in kdrama, or maybe I just forget about the others 😀
@yellow_grass Thanks for the info on calling a younger woman 자네 or ja-ne. LG is imperially polite. He also refers to Eun Sup as Eun Sup-gun, which I believe is a bit more formal or polite.
@Growing Beautifully (GB) you’re welcome ❤
Korean people often use the suffix: -gun (for young men) and -yang (for young women). a common use like 씨 or -ssi. usually in a rather formal variety show, the MC will use it.
then this parallel worlds difference strikes again, because LG calls JY with a pet name “Yeong-i” to show us how close they are 😁
@yellow_grass, thank you for that explanation. I recall that about food and drink in other instances. He knows that Tae-Eul won’t do that for him but he still eats with her sometimes and gets take-away (after having left a plate of chicken on the table, lol). The translation I saw only said something like ‘I don’t drink.’ so I took that to mean he was a teetotaler.
@Fern you’re very welcome ❤
at that time he must be very hungry, the chicken looks so yummy and he is their brand ambassador 😛
😂😂🍗🤴 @yellow_grass, you make me laugh. Yes, lots of advertising.
Thank you as well for the information on formal speech in Korean. There seem to be so many layers and different for men and women, too.
LG gravitated to this person he has been fascinated about for 25 years. Think about that… Growing up, thinking about this person… counting the years till she is no longer a noona… theorizing about the whole future aspect of the ID (Nov 11, 2019) – wouldn’t seeing her in the the flesh be a huge thing?
Am sure it is not romantic from the onset. But getting to know her a little bit more makes her more intriguing to him. And he has said it, he is impressed with her.
Plus the fact that TE proves to be elusive.
He is King. I bet he usually gets what he wants 99.99% of the time. Yet here is this character he has been fascinated about for all his life who not only despises him but is an anti-thesis of what he has imagined all this time. That’s a lot more interesting that women who thirsts for him on a constant basis.
Let us see what happens in the next epis. I bet by the end of Epi 06, LG will be a goner for TE, LOL.
Thank you, @yellow_grass. Please do tell us when you hear unusual words (or pronouns like ja-ne) that LG and TE use.
The nuances will really help us in our understanding their dialogues better. 👍
Wait.
In Ep 1, he offered to drink beer with Yeong-i.
It was that scene in his library. After the White Rabbit chase.
@yellow_grass is there a difference between 전하 and 폐하. There’s a slight difference in the Chinese. And the address for the King varies between dynasties. I notice that they’re using 폐하 in Corea. Most of the Joseon dramas I hear them refer to the King as 전하? Yes in Chinese there’s a lot of formal language which is lost as well now that the familial and feudal hierarchical systems have gone the way of the Dodo. I don’t think there’s a 자네 equivalent in Chinese.
Interesting to learn those nuances. Thanks!
@Fern @Packmule3 you’re welcome ❤ I’ll try to share what I know
@mychoiyoung thank you for your thoughts. after watching ep 1-4 again (it’s ady 4 times now 😌), I finally realized that all LG’s behavior and body language to TE didn’t reflect a sudden love.
when LG said that he’d make TE his queen, I also realized that the goal he wanted to achieve is more than just getting a life partner.
although at the beginning LG had revealed what kind of person TE was in his imagination but their conversation in the bamboo forest and LG’s conversation with his secretary hinted that LG is starting to like TE with full awareness now.
and, you’re welcome ❤
@nrllee I don’t know exactly when, and I don’t know about Chinese 😅
but in the past the dynasty in Korea preferred to be called as an empire which eventually turned into a kingdom and returned to being an empire again. ofc this happened with much interfere before its independence.
that’s why there are two ways to call the king:
페하 or Pye-ha is used for the king in the empire.
전하 or Jeon-ha is used for the king in the kingdom.
LG is called as 페하 or Pye-ha because he is actually the Emperor of 대한 제국 or Daehan Jeguk or Great Korean Empire or in this drama is called the Kingdom of Corea (to distinguish that Daehan Jeguk in this drama is completely different from the original, this is merely made).
The other information is the way LG refers to himself as 황제 or Hwangje or Emperor.
likewise when he proposed to TE, he mentioned 황후 or Hwang-hu or Empress.
I’m not sure why this drama is called the King (and also the subs in Netflix refers to King) 😌😂
back to 자네 or ja-ne, it sounds new in my ears, that’s why it feels special. I had to make sure many times that what I heard was right.
apparently this designation is rarely used today, it still used tho but only for elder and rarely used for a woman.
Koreans now prefer to call someone by the profession because they are considered more respectful.
I just make an error.
it’s 폐하 not 페하, I’m sorry my mistake. it’s time for my bed 😆
@nrllee: “I notice that they’re using 폐하 in Corea. Most of the Joseon dramas I hear them refer to the King as 전하?”
Someone also noticed during the coronation scene, the cheer being used was from Chinese tradition. I wonder if the Corea universe KES is building draws elements from Chinese culture:
1) To make it slightly exotic, otherworldly to Korean viewers.
2) To reflect back on the point where the histories if the parallel worlds diverged. Prince Sohyeon had been held hostage in Qing China. During that time he acted as a mediator between the two countries. His father, the reigning king of Joseon, accused him of being pro-Qing. In our world, that is one reason that likely contributed to Sohyeon’s murder. In LG Sohyeon lived longer and became king, thus having greater influence on the direction taken by Corean culture.
@yellow_grass, thank you so much for sharing your insights on the original language of this drama. We who don’t speak Korean depend on subtitles, but even at their best we don’t get the full impact of well-crafted dialogue. And we watchers who haven’t absorbed Korean culture by actually living within it have hurdles to leap to reach the level of comprehension that is inherent to Korean viewers.
@Welmaris you’re welcome ❤
“Someone also noticed during the coronation scene, the cheer being used was from Chinese tradition.”
you are absolutely right. during the coronation scene they shouted:
산호! 만세! 재산 호! 만만세! 재산 호! 만만세!
San ho! Man se! Jae San ho! Man man se! Jae San ho! Man man se!
this is an expression of wish that the king lives for a long time.
Man-se is usually translated as “long live”. this word comes from ancient China, which literally means “ten thousand years”. another country that adopts this language is Japan, with the word “Banzai”.
so clearly there is China cultural influence here.
now the word Man-se is often used as an expression of excitement or victory, some even use it as a name for their child. you must often hear Dae Han Min Guk Man Se’s words, right? 😁
@nllree I forgot to tell about this 😌
for 자네 or ja-ne, as far as I know it’s not a formal kingdom language. maybe that’s why you can’t find its equality in Chinese.
Korean people have many pronouns for second person like 당신 or dang-sin, 그대 or geu-dae, 너 or neo, and 자네 or ja-ne itself.
dang-sin, geu-dae and neo often used in Korean song lyrics too.
yellow_grass Nice to know that about Korean traditions. ‘Man se, Man se, Man man se” was used in Scarlet Heart Ryeo too in the scene where Lee Jun Ki was being crowned the king. Hence I remember it from there.
@Phoenix, I know that it’s a different type of drama, but I’ve been feeling in a way that this is similar to Scarlet Heart in an updated, restyled way. Am I way off, or do you or anyone else find it like this? The first few episodes are sort of a reverse where it’s the ML who comes into a strange world and the FL who treats him contemptuously. The horse, the suggestion of beheadings by people who like each other, and finally at the end, the heroine awakens from a coma, like Alice in Wonderland woke from a dream.
@Fern That’s a very interesting observation and one I hadn’t really thought of till now🤔🤔
But now that you mention it, TK:EM does have the same time/dimension travel elements in the reverse – you are right.
Only the difference I feel is that in Moon Lovers, the FL went back in time to an actual historical period. In TK:EM, the travel is between two universes that exist in parallel at the same time, and same looking people existing in both worlds at the same time.
We haven’t yet seen going back or ahead in time, though if my theory about LG going back to save the child version of himself on that fateful day is correct, then we might see that kind of time travel too.
@Phoenix, yes, that’s why I said it was a different type – inter-universe rather than cross-time. This drama’s concept is much more sophisticated, but I liked the other, too. It was the first proper k-drama that I saw – sort of by accident. 😂 A slippery slope down the rabbit hole for certain.
@Fern What a coincidence!🙌 Moon Lovers was my first ever kdrama too and it got me truly hooked to the dramaworld and I’ve never looked back sunce 2016!
I didn’t come across it until last year, so you are still well ahead of me. I didn’t see it on the list of posts by @pm3, so perhaps it predates this site.