I’m posting my reply to @growing_beautifully here because it’s long.

@pkml3

Hah! I know what I did, and I succeeded. It was to get your take on the MYTH. My nonsense below is filled with questions, but don’t worry, I’m just posing them and if you feel like answering them, please do… but I’m also letting the show answer them.

Yes. I’m not all-seeing like Sauron but. after all our discussions, I could tell what you wanted.

My purpose was to figure out why the opening was like that. I hadn’t seen the opening, as I mentioned elsewhere. When I caught on, I found it but it was in an MV and not part of the opening ‘credits’.

At the same time, I was alerted to the fact that stories with the flute named manpaksikjeok (MPSJ) existed. And so I went along to find out what was the same and different.

Bringing up the wiki legend was to have a source material from which to see how KES would derive her tale (the way we played around with how show fits in with Alice in Wonderland here, or with the Swan Lake/Giselle stories in the Angel’s Last Mission.)

And of course, you’ve done your due diligence and written it out for us nicely. LOL Thanks!

I omitted to tell you, GB, that I read a non-wikipedia article that describe the flute as made of black jade. In the grander scheme of things, I don’t find the flute’s construction and material so relevant to me as the PURPOSE of the flute.

I gathered it from this article that the flute was a symbol of the unification of the three kingdoms. So perhaps, the Uncle WAS taking it one step further. But instead of plain kingdoms, he was joining two worlds.

Here’s an abbreviated form:

One the second night of the king’s stay at Gameun Temple, the two stakes became one as the earth and the sky rumbled with rain and gusts, remaining dark for seven days, and only on the sixteenth day of the month, the winds died down and the waves calmed. When the king approached the island on a boat, a dragon brought him a black stake of jade and said, “If you take this and make a pipe, the sounds of the pipe will bring peace to the all under the sky.”

…

In conclusion, the legend of Manpasikjeok depicts the mystical experience of King Sinmun’s acquirement of a divine token, which can be interpreted as a cultural symbol that signifies Silla’s religion, ideology, politics and music following the unification of the Three Kingdoms. The legend thereby contributes to forming a comprehensive understanding of life in mid-Silla, during the reigns of King Munmu, King Sinmun and King Hyoso.

source: Encyclopedia of Korean Folk Culture
http://folkency.nfm.go.kr/en/topic/detail/5500

But you know what, after hearing the myth so many time, the intriguing aspect of that opening scene is TaeEul’s reaction to the Uncle’s story.

She was unmoved.

With his bloodstained face and body, the Uncle looked maniacal throughout his narration of the flute’s power and his resentment for being excluded from the throne. In her mind, she was only hearing a deranged man talk. Her only consideration was whether he murdered his brother or not.

None of his myth-building mattered to her.

And I think her being a “flat-earther” or a skeptic played a part here. She was a Doubting Thomas. She would only believe something if she actually saw it herself.

That’s why her mind was blown when Lee Gon brought her to the other side.

Creation myths: I like them. There are aspects similar and different in myths of various cultures. I want to know what KES makes of Silla’s MYTH.

For people who don’t understand what a “creation myth” is, it basically means “legend.”

However, when I use “creation myth,” I mean it in the sense that it’s the FIRST legend ever, like the Genesis in the Christian bible. A creation myth explains how the world was FIRST began, and how people and other living things came to exist.

To me, in the hierarchy of folk tales and folklore, the creation myth comes first, and THEN all the other the various legends follow, like the legend of the banana, the legend of the tiger, the legend of the Grand Canyons, the legend of the deep blue sea, and so on….

Bamboo = grass. Yes it is. A very tall grass.
Yellow tree in pink field = very unworldly, but it has at its root base, the magic flute.
The flute (MPSJ) = something that is of the gods? ‘Godly’ or transcendent. Something that enables the one who plays it to be like ‘god’, conferring on the player the power to control nature among other things.

In the real MYTH, the flute was used to peace and calm.

But in KES creation myth, the flute served as a key and a lock. In Episode 3 (at 53:00), he stood in front of the portal, and realized that he had failed to grasp the real situation from the beginning.

LG: On that day, I should’ve realized it once I found out that Manpasikjeok is the key.

Meaning, he was too slow to add 1 + 1.

LG: (cont) That traitor Lee Lim has the other half of it and that he is probably alive moving back and forth from the two parallel worlds. I should have known before I had laid my eyes on this beautiful thing.

Here, “beautiful thing” refers to the portal. Earlier, when he said “beautiful thing” he meant TaeEul.

LG: (cont) I should’ve known that it is the key and the lock.

And then we saw his Uncle walking through a salt field to see the troop of men, his former aide had gathered for him.

This is a foreshadowing. Lee Gon will need the Manpasikjeok to close the portal on his Uncle and the evil he planned to unleash.

Think of Lee Gon as the hobbit with the Ring of Fire he had to dispose off.

Do you see that?

In KES creation myth, the flute was given a totally different function. It wasn’t to peace, calm and prosperity.

“In KES’ creation myth, a powerful lightning struck a big tree standing alone on flat ground. The lightning reached all the way down to its roots. A flute appeared, and it too was struck by lightning. It split into two. A math wormhole appeared. The flute fell in it and two worlds appeared.”

I like that this sequence suggests what I was saying myself somewhere earlier, that the flute’s being split into 2, could have caused the parallel universe to be created.

If the flute had remained in 1 piece, we’d have the MYTH. Because it got cut into 2, we have the myth. The lightning strike to me, appeared deliberate (see below). Its purpose? To split the flute, to create the other universe. To enable more than 1 person to play god?

However, if the lightning was an accident, then it was not deliberately used to create 2 worlds.

“There are three glaring departures from the original legend.

One, in KES’ creation myth, the gods were absent. A natural phenomenon, a lightning, struck the tree. Meanwhile, in the historical texts, the dragon from the sea and the king of heaven, played a big role in this legend. They gave a bamboo to the Sinmun, the ruler of Silla.”

About that lightning. I was positing that it looked thicker and more other worldly than normal lightning. It also seemed to pause before hitting the tree dead centre, vertically from the top. I’m playing with the idea (as yet to be shown by KES) that this lightning was alien as in not of our natural weather, or it came from ‘god’. However that’s probably beside the point, since the story continues from there.

About that lightning, I think there are at least three schools of thought there.  I could list more, but religion isn’t my strong suit.

A. the lightning came from a divine source, that is, a PERSON ordered the lightning to strike down the tree dead center.

Judging from “Goblin,” I don’t believe KES is an atheist. There was this episode where the existence of suffering was discussed, i.e., does god exist when there’s suffering, and I was surprised that the heroine’s response was quite orthodox.

With that in context, the sudden lightning in THIS kdrama could be seen as an indication that some great Person-in-the-sky exists. Whether this Person is a catalyst for good or evil is another matter. In “Goblin,” I found the gods very capricious and un-Christian-like. I found myself saying that if KES’ notion of gods were like that, I’d go back to atheism, thank you very much.

So if there’s a deity who sent that lightning, we don’t know if he’s benevolent, mercurial, vengeful, savage, kind, ornery, or plain indifferent.

B. The lightning came from a preternatural force existing in nature.

There’s no Intelligent Designer who purposely sent down that lightning and aimed it at the tree.

This aligns with the belief that all-natural things such as trees, plants, animals, rain, and thunder have spirits INDEPENDENT of a Supreme Intelligent Being. We know this as animism, @growing_beautifully.

In many primitive and early cultures, this was how people experienced religion. If a baby died in the night, the death would be attributed to a night prowler from the shady tree which took delight in the baby and spirited it away. Likewise, the tree could have been struck because the spirit of the lightning was arguing with the spirit of the tree.

C. Aliens.

I’m more inclined to go with Choice B, @growing_beautifully.

It’s important that the flute came from that tree or rather resided in its very roots, but also that it broke into 2. The tree links the heaven with the earth, the balance of sky with ground. It had kept safely the flute, until the lightning struck it. The King (Lee Ho) had held on to the flute, like a “Tree With Deep Roots”.

Remember: I don’t know if the flute is made of bamboo, ginko, jade, or whatever. All I know is that in the trailers and the opening credits, there was a tree shown. And the tree stood alone in the grassy plain.

But please do tell me about this king with the flute in “Tree with Deep Roots.” It doesn’t have to be long. Just 3 sentences will do. Was that drama a big hit? Do you think it could have influenced KES? Thanks.

“Two, in KES’ creation myth, a big tree was instrumental. It was standing alone on flat ground.”

From my previous paragraph and your gifs above, what it looked like was that the lightning was deliberately over that tree, because the flute was there. It practically hovered over the tree for a split second and like a space ship, plunged into the roots of the tree.

Although the lightning bolt that split the flute is shown to us as coming from the left, it is I believe, the same lightning bolt from the sky seeking out the flute to break it apart.

In the myth of KES which is now the reality of LG’s world, that flute was cut into 2 by The Four Tiger Sword. Therefore, the Sword is the unearthly Lightning that struck the tree to its roots. Taking this thought another step…

Yes, @GB, that’s a good one! I like that idea.

KES creation myth is retold or re-invented as LG’s story. That’s his legend in the making, too, and it paralleled the Big Tree myth. Instead of lightning cutting the flute into halves, it was young LG who cut down the flute with his Four Tiger Sword.

The “earthly” or the human version of the lightning was the sword that paralleled by the fateful moment. Instead of lightning slicing the flute into halves in some mythology, in LG cut the flute with his Four Tiger Sword in 1994 Corea.

But in striking down that flute, he also struck at his Uncle’s obsession about the creation myth.

 

… As you have noted, it is significant that we only get the scene of dad telling LG about the Sword and not about the flute. LG, as the rightful owner of the Sword, could wield it, although it was too heavy for a kid. Can the wielder of supernatural lightning that split the flute, be considered a god as well? Both LL and LG wielded it. One for evil and one to right a wrong. They are each the antithesis of the other. One wants to play god, the other innocently played god without knowing it, ie LG created the parallel universe.

Yes, as I said, the lightning can suggest that a Supernatural Being exist. However, if we’re going with this train of thought, it’s important to remember that we can’t just yet assign benevolent qualities to it. For all we know, this Supernatural Being can have evil intentions or can be lazy and indifferent.

Also, if we’re going to draw parallelism:

One, the deity’s action resulted in the creation of two worlds. In LG’s case, his human action led to his discovery of those two worlds.

Two, the deity allowed the two worlds to co-exist separately. In LG’s case, however, I believe he’ll want to seal off those two worlds once and for all to prevent his Uncle from unleashing his sort of evil.

This begs the question, why is the Sword so ‘silent’? It makes its appearance now and then, but we mostly don’t talk much about it as it quietly sits under its dust cover. And I asked before, why a national treasure like the sword, should have been in that broken down building, and only now, 25 years later, have just been moved by LG into his room. Why was it treated as forgotten for 25 years? Perhaps because it was the instrument that caused his father’s death? Because the flute had eclipsed it in importance? (I know, we will wait for the story to unfold.)

I know, right? Why did he ignore the sword all this time? He left the glass case in his room, too. Why didn’t he just ask the Old Court Lady to put it in storage or to fill it up with other knick-knacks?

But here’s my answer.

Remember when Lee Gon visited his uncle’s office? I thought it was intriguing that there wasn’t any picture of Lee Gon in prominent display on his uncle’s shelf or desk. Then, he told Prince Buyeong that his favorite picture was of them with Lady Noh.

“My favorite photo is the one taken during the spring field trip in elementary school. There were cherry blossoms everywhere. And I’m holding both your hand and Head Court Lady Noh’s hand. The hand of my uncle who has to live his entire life away from his family.”

Prince Buyeong tried to stop him, “Your Majesty…” but he continued, “Don’t you hate me for that?”

You see, this is another way that LG had been a human sword. He was the sword that cleaved his uncle from his family. Because LG was young when he ascended the throne, Prince Buyeong become his heir to the throne and he left his family behind.

Prince Buyeong was an “heir presumptive.” Meaning, he was first in line to the throne but could be displaced when LG had his own son. Prince Buyeong wasn’t an heir apparent; he was only a “placeholder” until LG’s own heir was born.

Hence, this statement is interesting. “You have a duty to carry on the royal bloodline.” It’s as if he wanted to retire from his job and return to his family.

To ensure that Prince Buyeong would never be suspected of attempting to usurp the throne for HIS own line of children and grandchildren, he abandoned his own family. He devoted his life to the success of LG’s reign.

LG: Don’t you hate me for that?
BY: That’s complete nonsense.
LG: My father’s stepbrother killed my father and even tried to strangle me. And because of me, all your family has to live abroad. All their lives. So I’m curious. Is my father’s cousin on my side or not?
BY: What are you asking, Your Majesty. You’re being absurd. Do you want me to kill my own children to prove my loyalty to you?

ha. This is reminiscent of God commanding Abraham to offer his son as sacrifice to test his faith in God.

BY: (continuing) I couldn’t bear to kill my own kids, so I forbade them from ever coming here until the day they die. What kind of absurd rumor has made you come this far?
LG: I wasn’t swayed by any rumors. That wasn’t my question. Are you hiding something from me? I trust you, and I admire you. Please don’t hide anything from me. Here’s something I’ve been trying to solve for a long time. I can’t seem to solve it, so I’ll leave it here with you.

Phew! What a roundabout way of saying that he found the falsified autopsy report with Prince Buyeong’s signature.

He went from his family photograph to his own cherry blossom photograph, to “Don’t you hate me for that?” to “Is my father’s cousin on my side or not?” to “Are you hiding something from me?” to the autopsy report.

LG knew that he had greatly imposed on Prince Buyeong’s personal happiness, and wanted to know if that played a part in Prince Buyeong’s burying the truth about the autopsy.

To me, he was acknowledging that the Uncle must have ambivalent feelings towards him, as he too personally felt ambivalent feelings for the Four Tiger sword.

One, for LG, the sword was the weapon to kill his dad. For Prince Buyeong, his nephew Lee Gon was instrument in separating him from family.

Two, but for LG, the sword couldn’t be thrown away because as the King, it was his duty to wield it. Same with Prince Buyeong, he couldn’t turn his back on Lee Gon because as the heir apparent, it was his duty to stand by his side.

Three, for LG, he kept the empty sword case by his bed as reminder of who he lost. Also for Prince Buyeong, he kept photographs of his family at his desk as a reminder of who he lost.

Four, LG must have hated the sword. He was wondering whether Prince Buyeong hated him too because he would lie about the autopsy report.

Do you see the similarity?

To me, after his sojourn in the parallel universe, he realized that sword, the flute and the ID were all connected, and that’s why he took it out of its “burial place.”

After 25 years, the flute and the ID finally connect. Naturally, for him, the third reminder of the fateful night, the sword, must also be part of the set.

1. Sword
Usage: It was used to kill his father.
His feelings toward it: His LG hated it.
What he did with it: He kept it out of sight, out of mind.

2. ID
Usage: It was his reminder of rescuer.
His feelings toward it: He admired the person on the ID; he hid the ID to look at and talk in private
What he did with it: He searched for the face on the ID, “the face only he could identify” and chased it all the way to the parallel world, Republic of Korea.

3. Flute
Usage: It was the cause of his father’s death, and almost his death because it summoned him to the Cheojongo.
His feelings toward it: ambivalence, he both loved and hated it. His father was killed. But if hadn’t witnessed his father’s death, he wouldn’t have known the identity of his father’s murderer.
What he did with it: He carried it around with him.

To me, Lee Gon took back the sword from that mausoleum because he discovered the functions of these items were converging. Just like the flute and the ID had been “silent” before but were now awakened, the “silent” sword was soon going to be revived as well.

That’s my interpretation of the event. 🙂

Three, in KES’ creation myth, the flute was struck by lightning and broke into two. It fell in a wormhole of math equations…
And created two worlds as represented by the coins.
That’s the power of this Corean MPSJ flute. It had the power to bring two worlds to the King, according to the Uncle. This is the part in HIS NARRATION where he deviated from the “original script” or from the historical documents.

Yes, this. I’m even wondering if those were maths equations … not alien runes or something?

No, they were NOT alien runes. They were complex math equations. I guess they can be alien too if you’re a liberal arts major, as Lee Gon would say. 🙂

I think that’s the conceit of this kdrama, that the universe was made by a highly rational, logical and mathematical mind.

 “The uncle then continued to explain that he didn’t age because of flute. He took it from his brother who had it, but did not believe in it. The Manpasikjeok was revealed only once every 20 years to wish peace upon the world.
Uncle: He was allowed to see it every day. My naive half-brother, who became King just because he was born the legitimate son, did not do anything when he had the whole world in his hands. He didn’t even know that the Manpasikjeok in his hands would bring the world to him. To be exact two different worlds. I did expect that one day, my nephew would face that legend too, just like me.”

I don’t see though why Lee Lim said his brother, the King, was allowed to see it every day when it was revealed only once every 20 years. I am under the impression that the flute hid itself until the 20 years was up, and that’s why Lee Lim was waiting around in the palace, in the bedroom, toying with the sword (bad security in that palace!). He was waiting for news that the King was in that other room, meaning that the flute had turned up.

I think the Uncle meant that the King had access to it every day. He had the key to open the case and he could have taken his gloves and blown on it or something, to call up the supernatural forces and the two worlds.

As for appearing every 20 years, I don’t know what he meant because it wasn’t shown to us. But I’m guessing:

a. the flute was housed in a building, or section of a building, that was opened to the public only every 20 years. The Uncle said he was going to the Cheojongo. “What I need is over there.”

b. the flute was hidden in a vault. But every 20 years, it was taken out from the vault and brought to the Cheojongo where it was on public display.

In the US, the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and Bill of Rights are lowered into the vaults at night.

Yes, why did the King Li Ho appear to not have done anything with that flute. He already had his world in his hands, and he didn’t need anything more? There was no unrest in the country and no devastating disasters to prevent with that flute?

Yes, the fact that he didn’t use it was the reason I took a second look at the creation myths. To me, the previous King didn’t believe in mythology and fairy tales.

But Lee Gon seemed to indulge in them occasionally. In as much as he’s a math guy, he believes in fairy tales. He called Yeong, “Unbreakable Sword” didn’t he?

And he told Yeong to read more fairy tale.

It’s noteworthy that the Sword had originally been kept in the King’s bedroom. And that it ended up in the other room where the King died, and stayed there for 25 years.

I like your idea that grass is pretending to be a tree with deep roots. I actually find grass very hard to pull up by their roots.

The thing about LL, he wanted to ‘be a man-made god’ although he did not believe in a transcendent god.

Yes. a “tinpot” god is how we’d call him.

” Uncle: The punishment of the skies? I plan to be the very being who gives punishment from the skies, Your Majesty. (then switching names) Brother, God never created humans. It was the weak who created god.”

He wanted the power to mete out punishment from the skies like god.

Ironically, LL was not enamoured of the Sword. It was just an instrument of death for his brother.
His brother, Li Ho, was not enamoured of the Flute. The Sword is owned by the King, but the Flute comes and goes.

Another interesting parallel in their own universe.

Lee Ho speaks the words on the Sword.

King: The sky bestows the heart upon us, and the ground helps the spirit.

Sounds like the heavens and the earth give us life, body and soul, heart and spirit. ANOTHER CREATION myth.

The sun and the moon are formed. As the mountains and streams form, lightning strikes.

The world is formed and there’s a lightning strike upon it? Does the lightning strike for good or for ill? It sounds like the supernatural lightning of the tree.

Yes, in both the flute’s and the sword’s creation myth, there are no mention of a god-like person with an intelligent design on how to create the world.

That’s why I’m more inclined to go with the animism school of thought. These folktales didn’t consider a god-like, supernatural presence in the creation of the world.

A sage is moved to defeat the evil of the mountains and streams.

A sage = thoughtful, reflective and wise? person will want to defeat evil. The mountains and streams that form have (good? and) evil. The sage will want to uproot the evil.

Wield it with deep thoughts and make things right.

I assume this means that the sage will wield the Sword, having thought deeply and clearly when to wield it and how, in order to right the wrongness of the world, to root out the evil.

We see that LG is a very pre-possessed child and a very calm, deep thinking man. He bears the evidence of being sage-like. He is like one in the square root sign, waiting to be released from it.

And yes, in the teaser or preview, LG carries the Sword with him while astride Maximus, while I believe, he faces the portal. It is the Sword that (may)/will have the final word.

Fun conjectures to be proven or disproven in the weeks to come!!

Yes, he can be the sage alright. Lee MinHo’s character in this kdrama is actually the most likable hero I’ve seen/heard him play. This is a far-cry from the usual tsundere image I have of the actor — it’s a residual from his “Boys over Flowers” days.

I did expect this trope.

But I’m liking the guy for his sense of humor.

Like when, they were at the jewelry store and she identified herself as a cop. He looked down at her and ordered her to reveal her other identity.

“Princess Diana.”

Kim GoEun’s reaction was funny. If looks could kill…

Then, the running joke about his need for a food tester was funny, too.

When she accused his horse of being picky with the carrots she bought it because it was a “Senior Seventh Rank official,” his comeback had me laughing. She was being snippy but all he said to take her down a peg was, “Did you taste it beforehand?”

He was implying that if there was a social hierarchy in place, she was lower-ranked than his horse. lol.

If I were TaeEul, I would have kicked his shin.

But he was teasing her because he knew it would get on her nerves.

Overall, I’m enjoying the “intellectual” side but I’m having fun with the “lowbrow” sense of humor, too.

Okay, gotta run out to get food. I’ll edit this later. I often think faster than my fingers can type so I omit words.