The problem with this drama is it’s full of CONTEXT. It’s so easy for viewers to lose sight of meaning behind the words if they’re rushing through the dialogues.
You know there are kdrama writers were the words don’t have much “density” to them. What you see is what you get.
But there are screenwriters, like my favorite Hong sisters, and Lee WooJeong (the Reply series writer) where obsessive fans like me, can spend a lot of time just going over the different levels of interpretation of the SCRIPT.
Remember, I don’t ship couples. I ship scripts.
Now, I’m finding that Kim Eun Sook (KES) is also one of those writers who pack their dialogues with lots of meaning. It’s up to the viewers to take whatever they want ever they want from her dramas.
Here’s what I wrote about Goblin — with edits.
I was invested in finishing “Goblin” because I wanted to see what KES had to say about life, afterlife, reincarnation, karma, punishment, and heaven. However, a lot of viewers didn’t watch the drama with the same goal as mine.
But that’s their choice, not mine.
A lot of viewers were content with just the romance, the “chemistry,” the characters, and the angst. (And that stupid “bromance” between the Goblin and the Reaper).
Again, that’s their concern, not mine.
No matter what these viewers were looking for in “Goblin,” let there be no misunderstanding here. KES’ philosophy on life and death was THERE for the viewers to understand and ponder…if they had wanted to.
When they missed it or skipped it, that was their problem, not KES.
For me, there are, at the very least, two levels of interpreting a kdrama written by a professional like KES. A viewer can watch it for the “feels” which can be easily delivered by the handsome actors and the makjang-ness of the plot. Or a viewer can watch it for “substance,” that is, KES’ mindset.
(…)
It’s impossible to separate a writer’s convictions, and belief system from her work. I’m not a literature person but I always assumed that the writer gives birth to her mindset in her written work. Her values and outlook in life constitutes her “substance” which in turn gives life to her art. Whether she realizes it or not, her “substance” seeps into her work. And THAT is what she’s really communicating in the dialogues, the plot, the romance.
Now, should the viewers decide to focus on the “feels” rather than the “substance” of the story, then that’s their choice.
And their loss.
(…)
It’s not KES who determines how her work is received. It depends on the audience to get what they can get out of their viewing experience.
That’s the reason I spend time breaking down the dialogues. It’s for the romance of course, but really. I want to know what KES was thinking of when she wrote them.
So let me try to breakdown some of the dialogues.
A. Bamboo grove
LG: I’m the King of the Kingdom of Corea. And my name, which you cannot say…is Lee Gon.
Now, to me, there are at least three levels of interpretation here.
The first one, obviously, is that he was King and his name was sacrosanct. Like Yahweh’s name in the biblical times, Lee Gon was so revered and powered, his name couldn’t be spoken. But now, he was uttering this “My-name-is-Lee-Gon-whatever” to impress her with his pomp and circumstance.
The second one pertains to the poem “Invocation of the Dead.” But I won’t discuss this now. I don’t have time, and I’m confident that you can all come up with your theories or analyses of that.
Hint: he was giving his name because that name would always have an owner. He would always answer because he was the “eternal” king.
The third interpretation is that this was a milestone in their relationship.
You see, names are very important in kdramas (and in life, too) because they reveal the nature of the relationship. I told you, did’t I? LG wanted to know SinJae’s name because TaeEul addressed him as “Big Brother.” He was jealous of her and wanted to know the name of this “potential” rival.
Names indicate a relationship. Look: If I call you by name, instead of “Excuse me. You over there. Can you please leave?” then it means that I know you. You’re not a stranger to me. You’re not anonymous.
— Or to use a scientific term, you “MATTER” to me. lol.
So when LG gave her his name, he was saying that she had become part of his world. She EXISTED in his world now, both in the liberal-arts sense and the science/math sense.
Remember? He was reluctant to divulge information about himself unless she became a “part of his family.” From Episode 3, 36:30.
TE: Are you really from another world?
LG: I told you but you didn’t believe me.
TE: Who’s allowed to use that door?
LG: I’m not sure yet, but someone besides me might have used it.
TE: Who’s that?
LG: I can only tell you if you become part of my family.
Likewise, he considered his name as private information that she didn’t need to know unless she had become part of HIS WORLD.
Thus, when she’d jumped through that portal, and landed in his kingdom, she literally and metaphysically became part of his world.
Like in the “Little Mermaid.”
TaeEul began to exist in his world as an individual. And conversely, he too began to exist for her as a REAL person, and not just some weird guy with weird fantastical stories.
See? That’s what giving her his name means.
Moreover, giving her his name signals ownership.
Remember that line in the poem, “Oh, name without an owner.” I told you it meant that no one would respond to the poet calling out her name because the owner of the name died.
Here, however, by giving TaeEul his name, he was giving her power over him to call him anytime. She could call him anytime by name, and he would answer.
And to me, that’s the “symbolism” behind TaEul’s frantic phone call.
She called him (literally on the phone, and said that she was “Princess Diana”)
and he turned around his helicopter to pick her up.
That’s the power of knowing his name, of knowing who to call. He shows up whenever he’s called.
Fortunately for our hero, he isn’t slow on the uptake. He realized that power of giving his name to her.
He learned in Episode 6 at 29:33.
LG: I will come back to you with honor. It won’t take long.
TE: “Come back?”
Like a typical girlfriend, she was zoomed in on that. A thousand thoughts ran in her liberal-arts mind, “What did he mean by ‘come back’? Why, was somebody leaving? Where is he going to come back? WHEN is he coming back?”
Girls like these pledges only when they come with details, details, details. And I thought she was cute because she was thinking like a girlfriend.
LG: Will you wait for me?
TE: (nodding) I will see you again, Lee Gon.
LG: I thought my name was not supposed to be called, but I guess it was supposed to be called only by you.
When he told her his name, he essentially gave her “dominion” over him.
Think about this: As king, Lee Gon answered to no one. In fact, he could call literally call out ANYONE and “anyone” would come rushing.
He said so himself. “In this world, if I say ‘Anyone out there?’ everybody will come rushing.”
See that?
Lady “Anyone” = Lady Court Noh. lol.
But now, here’s TaeEul who could call him by name. She could summon him to her side, anytime, anywhere, and he’d come running.
So, if you want a mathematical INEQUALITY (because they aren’t equal) for their relationship, it’s goes like:
TaeEul > Lee Gon > His Kingdom
TaeEul is greater than Lee Gon who is the greatest in his Kingdom.
Now, for Goblin viewers, TaeEul’s summoning power is similar to EunTak’s ability to call Goblin by blowing on the candles. Remember? She only had to blow on the candles, and Goblin would materialize – to his chagrin. He resented it at first, because he felt like he was a slave at her beck-and-call 24/7. But in the end, that was how she had conjured him back from the dead. Remember?
Here in this drama, it’s Lee Gon who was powerless, like Goblin. But instead of resenting that he was “under” her, he’s awed by the enormous power of this Ms. Zero-the-Hero over her. Nobody else could call him but TaeEul.
Do you see now what I mean that this writer Kim Eun Sook has a worldview that doesn’t change from drama to drama? She’s consistent.
Anyway back to the opening scene…
LG: I’m the King of the Kingdom of Corea. And my name, which you cannot say…is Lee Gon.
TE: So you do have a name. If you really have a name, I guess there’s no way to avoid a beheading now.
LG: From the way you talked to me so far, it’s only right to behead you right away.
LG laughed at her death joke (I wish he didn’t, though. hahaha). Her quip was funny because she always thought he was a wacko. Now, she was shocked that the wacko like him could actually have the power to order her beheading. Meaning, king or not, he was still a wacko. And that’s why LG thought she was rare bird. Despite telling her his identity as supreme ruler, she wasn’t intimidated and she cracked a joke.
And his guards were surprised. Yeongie was suspicious. Previously, Yeong had the distinction of making LG laugh, and now there was another person who could make LG laugh, too.
Lee Gon ordered his guards to follow him to the racetrack.
I’m assuming this mysterious place, this no-man’s-land, is somewhere on the way to the racetrack.
B. No-man’s-land
TE: What’s this place? Is it some kind of fourth dimension?
LG: I’m not sure yet.
TE: I guess we can say it’s something between 1 and 0 in my world and yours. This is a place that cannot be explained scientifically.
Then, he talked about the balloon.
TE: If it’s not science, then what is it? Is it some kind of magic.
LG: It could be part of a legend. Time flows differently here as well. One minute here is about an hour outside. My watch stops here so I went back and forth for several days to check.
TE: How could you check when clocks stop here?
LG: I used Euler’s number.
TE: Ah.
Hahaha. We bitches know more than TaeEul, right? But note here. This is when she started to study her math and science. When she realized that he was telling her the truth, she decided to research what he’d been telling her all along. She was going to take him seriously, when previously, she just dismissed anything he said as a madman raving. Even his marriage proposal, she brushed off.
LG: I don’t know how deep or how vast this place is. I’ll reach the edge of this place someday. And then I’ll tell you all about it. But for now, let’s go to my world.
Four things here:
1. He obviously knew about this whole mysterious place EVEN before he crossed the portal. That’s why he wasn’t shocked to see the portal, and he was unfazed to be walking in the middle of the Gwanghwamun Road. He was accustomed to these unexplained anomalies in the temporal world because he had one right near his racetrack.
2. We don’t know if this mysterious place is a closely guarded secret or widely known to the royal family including the Bad Uncle.
3. For now, I’m assuming that his Bad Uncle is unaware of the existence of this place. If he does in fact know about it, he doesn’t come here often. This place is too close to the racetracks and LG is often there.
4. Lee Gon described the badlands as “something between 1 and 0 in my world and yours.”
If you ask me, “Ground Zero” for our couple is Gwanghwamun Center where LG and TaeEul met. There’s a zero milestone marker near the Admiral Yi statue.
source: seoulpatch/zero-milestone-and-more.html
And virtual mile marker 1 would be somewhere in the Kingdom of Corea.
C. The Stable
As soon as Lady Maximus had been inspected by Royal Vet, LG turned to look at TE with glee. He was enjoying the situation because it was a chance for him to boast (and rubbed it in) that he was indeed the king — just like he said he was.
LG: I told you so. Everything I said to you was true, wasn’t it?
TE: Don’t you see that’s driving me crazy? If this is all real, it’s terrifying. And if it’s not, that means I’m crazy.
Her options weren’t good either way. She’s either stark crazy or in deep trouble.
Also, Capt Jo’s presence was one of her irritants. She’d known him since she was 3 so it bothered him that he stood on LG’s side. Not hers.
Here’s where the Korean age messes me up. I don’t know if the Netflix is doing Korean age or Western age. Since I’m American, I’ll go with Western math (lol) and let the Koreans take care of this later. She was born in 1990. If they met when she was 3, that would be in 1993. Lee Gon and Yeong met in 1994.
Reaching for Jo’s gun, TE was blocked. LG looked proud. He was confident that she could hold her own against Yeong should there be a fight between two two. He’d already seen her. But he didn’t want his guard fighting TaeEul at this moment, so he told Yeong to give her the gun so she could look at it.
LG: She knows how to handle it. Let her be. She has to see for herself to believe it.
Here, we see that Lee Gon understood TaeEul’s mindset. She’s a “flat-earther.” Meaning, she’s a skeptic. She doesn’t believe in events or phenomena that she hadn’t personally experienced, encountered or seen.
I said this before: A “flat-earther” is someone who doubts that the world is round because there’s no EVIDENCE that the planet is round. Generally, flat-earthers believe that there’s a worldwide conspiracy led by governments and scientists to dupe people into believing that the Earth is a sphere by using satellite photos. Flat-earthers are considered anti-science.
A flat-earther’s argument: what you see doesn’t line up with what you believe.
This is why a romance between TE and LG amuses me. LG is all math and science, but TE is a liberal arts grad…plus a flat-earther to boot. The important part here is Lee Gon accommodates her “flat-earth-ness” and slowly convinces her to believe in him even when there are no evidences to support him.
To me, that’s TaeEul’s story arc. She has to learn to believe in him based on faith alone, not on hard evidence or written guarantees. She has to trust in his words when he says something, even though they sound preposterous or incredible, because she loves him.
Jo: Believe what?
TE: That she just crossed between 1 and 0.
Here, I think he meant that she SAW the “no-man’s-land,” but she still had to BELIEVE in it. Lee Gon knew that even though she actually SAW it, it was hard for her to comprehend it. He knew she was confused so he was giving her time to adapt to this strange reality.
Jo gave her the gun as he was ordered.
TE: This is real? This P30 is actually real? I’m going to check something. It’s nothing personal.
She quickly cocked the gun and aimed for LG’s head. Lightning fast. Jo stepped in front of LG. I like that. He’d readily take a bullet for LG.
However, I thought it was funny that LG was simply enjoying himself here. He KNEW that TaeEul would point the gun at him. He knew that despite being scared and confused, she wasn’t going to go down without a fight. She wasn’t a fainting damsel. She’d go down fighting first.
That’s why he bragged to Yeong that she was also skilled with the gun. Instead of taking offense that she wanted to blow his brains out, he was bragging that she was a gun expert.
LG: I told you she can handle guns.
Jo: I’m letting this go just this once because you’re His Majesty’s guest.
TE: So…this country, and you being the king, it’s all real?
LG: It’s all real.
LG moved from hiding behind Jo’s back. Jo moved to hold the gun’s muzzle.
LG: That gun, this world, and me. So don’t think of confirming that by pulling the trigger. This guy isn’t going to move an inch.
LG understood her need to confirm things in order to believe. However, if she needed to kill him in order to prove everything was real, then this whole “stick-a-gun-at-my-face” was going to be a waste of bullet. Why? Because Yeong wouldn’t move out of the way to clear her obstruction. And even after she fired the gun, the rest of his security team would fire back at her. She would have accomplished nothing.
From Episode 6:
D. Meeting the Prime Minister
Koo: (addressing LG) When it comes to the country’s affairs, personal occasions are business too. And you are my country.
Of course, if you’re a woman, you get what Koo was saying here. She was drawing her line around LG. She was claiming her turf; she was being territorial. She was letting TaeEul know without actually ADDRESSING her or knocking her off her feet.
Not being a slowtop, TaeEul understood her meaning.
Koo: (fake politician smile) Nice to meet you. I’m Koo Seo-ryeong, the PM of the KoC.
TE: It’s nice to meet you. I’m a big fan.
LG realized that TE deftly avoided saying her name. But Koo persisted.
Koo: I’m flattered to have such a young and beautiful fan. May I ask your name?
Again, LG looked at TE. He was probably wondering how TE would dodge this. She obviously couldn’t give her name. I thought this was funny because TE was mirroring LG’s position back in Korea. Back then, he wouldn’t give his name back in Korea. And even if he told her his name, his name would have been unheard of. Similarly, TE could give Koo her name, but her name wouldn’t matter.
TE: I’m a traveler. I’m honored just to be able to see you like this. I’m leaving soon.
He was still looking at TE, not saying a word. He looked sad to me. He KNEW that TE had to return to her natural world. But he probably didn’t want to hear it spoken aloud just yet. It was too soon.
TE: This my first time in the Kingdom of Corea. I feel like I’m in a storybook.
Koo: It’s your first time here, but you speak our language well.
TE: Ah, well…(scratching her cheek) I studied liberal arts.
And LG laughed at her.
I laughed, too. I laughed because of two things:
One, he realized that he had been worrying needlessly about TE. She could easily fend off Koo’s obvious prying. He laughed because he was relieved.
Two, he laughed because of the stereotypes.
For math and science people, a stereotypical liberal arts graduate is someone who took up “languages.” So TE gave the right answer. However, he also knew that TE was a police detective. So even if she was lying about taking up “languages” in college, she came up with answer “liberal arts” gibe he always threw at her. Her answer was striking back at him, too.
Touché.
He stepped in after that.
LG: Let’s call it a day, Prime Minister Koo. I don’t have much time today.
But the swoon-worthy moment of this whole scene was when LG waited for TE at the door. He was the King he didn’t have to wait for her. But I liked that he put his arm around her and walked through the revolving door together.
I like the whole protective-ness of it. His girlfriend had just confronted the dragon lady Koo, and she survived it well. So now he was taking care of her.
E. The same moon
TE: The moons are the same. Do you also have…(noticing they have company)…Later.
LG extended his hand. She didn’t want to give hers, of course, and mouthed, “What?” so he took her hand and started to scribble on it.
LG: Do we also have what?
TE: Do you also have the myth about rabbits living on the moon?
Lol. I had to laughed at this joke. He wasn’t using a cellphone to communicate because he wasn’t texting. Instead, he was using a PALMpilot…which was popular before the IPhone.
LG: There are no rabbits on the moon, liberal arts student. The moon is the closest celestial body to the earth—
And of course, TE gives him the mean look. When she realized that he was going to tease her about being a liberal arts student again, and spew scientific facts at her she was annoyed. So she grabbed her hand away, but he held on.
LG: The surface of the moon is covered with regolith…
This struck me as funny because the two onlookers, the secretary and Jo, thought that they were exchanging romantic messages meant just for the two of them. In reality, there was nothing romantic about LG’s scientific explanation about the moon.
Of course, TE is also exasperated with him because hey! if he was going to scribble on her palm and get her all excited, then talking about moon facts was kind of a wasted opportunity for her. (She’s a flat-earther, remember?)
Remember? It was just like when he leaned her head on his shoulder.
He got her (and us) all excited for nothing. That’s it???
F. The missing ID card
Old Court Lady Noh: I know you’re busy at the moment, but something in the palace was stolen. The guest’s ID card is gone. I tried my best to keep it secure, but I guess it wasn’t enough.
To me, it sounded as if she took extra-precaution to secure it because she had expected it to get stolen. However, DESPITE her best effort, it happened anyway.
Noh: I will find out who did it and –
LG: Head Court Lady Noh, I know this might sound out and I can’t explain why, but I somehow feel that everything that is happening now was meant to be and they were set in motion 25 years ago.
Thank you. We knew about this from Episode 1.
Noh: (stammers) Why are you suddenly saying that?
To me, she was caught off guard here, so she was studying him to learn what he knew.
LG: I will explain further when I get back. Just wish me good luck for now. Your other talisman actually worked. (meaning the talisman for finding a wife)
Noh: Please take the talisman with you. Actually the talisman is supposed to be used that way.
And then TaeEul walked in.
lol. Here I think the talisman that they were talking about is NOT this paper talisman.
But this talisman, TaeEul.
Not only was she a talisman to bring him good luck, but she replaced that paper talisman with this: two (or one) packets of seeds. The paper talisman was supplanted by something more powerful: the seeds can grow.
TE: I bought it in that world. It’s made in the Kingdom of Corea.
LG: I told you. I told you there is no wind, no rain, no sun, and no time here. Flowers don’t bloom here.
TE: We don’t know that if no one has sown seeds yet.
Back in Korea:
TE planted the same seeds, telling them, “I know you’re from a different world but still you should sprout. Your friends are in a much harsher place now.
This is kuroshio’s explanation.
Hanja. Hangul.
想像 상상. Sang-sang Imaginary
상사. Sang-sa Lovesickness , yearn, or longingYou see these 2 words are extremely similar but have a very different meaning. And 相思 is not a word that you would use in every day conversation and actually, this word is quite classy and old fashion. So, yes, it just is a simple mistake of translation. But it’s important because it’s a very reserved way to say I’m gonna miss you, and the thinking of you will grow every day, just like the seeds I give you.
These seeds are TE’s confession. Something that liberal art guys do.
I’ll take Kuroshio’s word for it that the plant symbolizes lovesickness, yearning.
But Kuroshio, you forgot one important thing. You forgot to tell us WHAT the seeds are. (Grumble. Grumble. Grumble. Liberal arts guys… /just kidding)
So I went to google and I found out that 相思 was “acacia.” Please confirm. If the seeds are acacia, then yeah, the seed left in the no-man’s-land will have to grow to become a tree. 🙂
TaeEul probably didn’t know because she didn’t take up “language” in college and couldn’t read Chinese.
G. The return of her original ID or what I called (ID – 1)
lol. This is the reason I wanted difference faces on the ID. It would have made viewers’ lives (and mine) easier.
There were actually three IDs but now there’s only one again.
LG: I will give this one to you. It seems it was supposed to be passed on to you. I hope this doesn’t put you in trouble.
To me, his statement could be interpreted in 2 ways.
A. He was telling her to take his old keepsake ID in lieu of that one that Lady Noh lost. He hoped that the switch wouldn’t cause her problems at work.
OR
B. He was telling TaeEul that THIS was her actual replacement ID. He was passing off her old ID (the 25-year-old ID) as her replacement ID. He was letting her believe that she was getting her replacement ID when it fact, it was the original ID. When he said, “It seems it was supposed to be passed on to you,” he was giving the impression that it came from Lady Noh.” And when he said, “I hope this doesn’t put you in trouble,” he was apologizing for his deception.
To recap then:
Her real ID was lost in Korea when it fell in the grate.
Her replacement ID was lost in Corea when it was stolen from Lady Noh’s drawer.
And there’s ONLY ID circulating (ID – 1) and he returned it to TaeEul. He was left with nothing.
But that must have been a terrible feeling for him, like losing a favorite blinky or blanket. That’s why he was happy to claim the hair tie.
Gotta run now. Will continue this later.
I came here 8 hours ago for a poem, a poem about names that could not be said to help me learn my Korean… I got sucked into the wormhole of KDrama probabilities and symbolisms… now I have to rewatch from Episode 1. It will help my language learning, but my work will suffer. Such is the nature of this wormhole… a wormhole I do not regret losing time in. You just gained a new fan, who will most likely be a lurker. But I’m here for now.
I was wondering, was the ID stolen, or was it impossible for both 11.11.19 IDs to exist simultaneously? He may have gone to his book to fetch ‘his’ and found it missing and then went to Lady Noh’s room to take the 3rd ID to have to hand when Tae Eul asked for it.
Thank you @packmule for all of this analysis. It’s grand.
Your article’s huge and I’m gonna need time to proofread it. It raises some phenomena I’ve been confronted with: the correlations of a dialogue. A process that involves an element of spontaneity. As you are interested in analysis, I am also very interested in how it was created.
For my part, I don’t think it’s calculated. Or at least not the way we imagine it. It’s an immediate answer, and after analysis only, it has several meanings. So it’s a creative process that I could analogize to the rest of this comment.
I’m writing here to underline something important about the world between 0 and 1.
Not being 0 or 1 is the exact definition of the quantum computer, currently under development.
Instead of providing a 0 or 1 answer, the exceptional computing power of this type of computer relies on a superposition of states, as predicted by quantum theory (cf Schrodinger’s famous Cat). The circuit is not binary, but presents an infinite number of possibilities between 0 and 1, and can be said to calculate all the posibilities at once. Then, the final process, of collapse, allows to have the most probable answer to this combinatorial logic.
Instead of calculating X possibilities one after the other, like a classical computer, the quantum computer calculates the X possibilities at the same time, in other words.
Why am I bringing this up?
Because a quantum computer of only 300qbit (the equivalent of bit 0 or 1 of a classical computer) has a higher power than a classical computer that should be made with the totality of all estimated particles in the universe. And 300qbit is really no big deal. The D-Wave company is testing a 2000qbit computer right now. And at the moment, this type of invention is in its preliminary phase. It’s the equivalent of the perforated paper tapes for the computers we use today.
In the context of the drama, I think it’s a good process to shed light on certain mysteries, such as this 4th dimension, or parallel universes. Between 0 and 1, there is an infinity. What is delirious, and not at all fantasy, is that this also exists in our rational world.
I don’t know, of course, whether the KES screenwriter used that in this sense. I’ll have to watch the rest of the drama to find out.
Concerning the drama. I really regret that with all this, the narration has not been more biting, or sometimes confused, exploded. Dense content is important, but not to the detriment of the addictive side of the story.
Sorry, I wanted to take more time to read and answer, but I already have a remark to make…
I can’t help it, it’s like this when I get excited. ^^
Your words:
—————————————-
“Again, LG looked at TE. He was probably wondering how TE would dodge this. She obviously couldn’t give her name. I thought this was funny because TE was mirroring LG’s position back in Korea. (…)
TE: I’m a traveler. I’m honored just to be able to see you like this. I’m leaving soon.”
—————————————-
See that ?
The correlation ?
He’s the king and he doesn’t give his name.
Conclusion ?
She’s the queen and she won’t give her name.
This suggests that she accepts her position as queen, and the king’s sassy proposal in a previous episode. The character doesn’t know it yet, maybe it’s a slip of the tongue, a failed act.
The king of one world, and his queen of another.
Two worlds together.
Wenchanteur, I already know about the 0 and 1 as computer language. If you don’t remember, I was the one who pointed it outway before the show started. It’s in one of the post I made for the trailer.
But right now, I’m still waiting where the writer is going with it.
She could be going with decimals.
She could be going to asymptotes.
She could be going with infinity.
She could be going with limits.
She could be going with fractals.
So for now I’m holding off. I’m not pushing it.
But the computer language was the FIRST thing I mentioned when the preview came out. That was elementary, my Watson. 😂
As much as there’s math here, the writer is also not a phony.
She’s NOT a math person. She’s a lib.arts. 😀 Sure she may have assistant writers to help her with the math jokes. but she won’t cede control of her narrative to her junior writers by doing hard math that’s way beyond her own comprehension. Why would she do that? She’s going to be true to herself.
The story comes first, the math later.
See, I don’t know if the ID was stolen or it was lost because of quantum mechanics.
But my guess is it was stolen. You know why?
Because so far, every duplicate thing, or every duplicate BODY, that disappeared in Corea or Korea, was lost due to a criminal activity.
Not because of any mathematical or scientific quantum mechanics theory at work. You know what I mean? I have to stick with what’s in the script. 😂
That moment when LG escorted TE through the revolving door with his arm around her shoulders was packed with meaning. You’re right, @Packmule3, as king LG could stride through that door first and be within the behavior expected of him as reigning monarch. LG’s whole life (except those times he ran away) has been lived within the monarchy, and he’s intimately aware of nuances. That’s why he could call out the error of PM’s comment about his being indebted to her. That LG would wait for TE, put his arm around her, and walk with her by his side isn’t a habit-induced act of courtesy of a boyfriend to a girlfriend. (And yes, his arm casually slung across her shoulders already speaks volumes about his perception of their relationship.) LG knew PM Koo was watching, and chose to break protocol. Message sent.
@pkml3 As expected after some sleep and HP you’re back to pointing out the significance of dialogue. 😀 Thanks for the good stuff!
When you say this, are you envisioning
A) a ‘place’ between the palace and the bamboo forest? A place LG can access even without ever entering the bamboo forest.
A1) I did too at first, and I did think that his world then is more fairytale like than hers … that if his world gave him access to this Area between 1 and 0, then his, is the fantasy world, (and TE’s world is the ‘real’ world) because this is a ‘fantasy’ place and he does not know that he does not exist. But maybe he exists because he’s been dreamed into existence.
B) Or do you subscribe to this? This ‘place’ is not in his world, but it’s a ‘place’ between his world and hers ie the space between the going into the portal and exiting it on the other end.
I believe @welmaris it was who gave a great description of what each element of that ‘place’ might represent in the flute.
From what you say, I take it to mean that you believe A), based on LG’s lack of surprise over the portal.
@packmule3 @kuroshio is correct that 相思 is an “old term”. In fact there is a poem written by a Tang Dynasty poet titled 相思. My Chinese studies didn’t go as far as to delve into Tang poetry which is a level up…think Lit. major as opposed to just normal English you study in schools. But scholars of old memorized large chunks of it and you are deemed to be knowledgeable if you know your Tang poetry. It’s kinda pushing by Chinese a bit but the poem talks about a red bean (seed) planted. So I have a feeling given the context here with the seed packets, it is probably what KES used as research material. If (big if because it’s prose and full of imagery and my Chinese is rusty and prose tends to get lost in translation) I can find the time, I will try to dissect the poem. Thankfully it looks to be very brief…just 4 lines. 😂.
https://baike.baidu.com/item/相思/5611027
No. nrllee. I want the NAME of the plant, i.e., the species, not the translation of the Chinese word.
What IS the plant that she planted?
Is the plant’s name “Longing”? Or is “Longing” the MEANING or symbolism of the plant?
Plants have names to identify them, for instance:
Plant name: Helianthus
Common name: Sunflower
Meaning: Adoration, Loyalty
Plant name: Tulipa
Common name: Tulip
Meaning: Rebirth, Spring
So what is this 相思?
Is it–
Plant name: Longing?
Common name: Longing?
Meaning: Longing?
Do you see what I mean? “Longing” cannot be the species of the plant. Unless it’s an imaginary plant we’re talking about here…
If that’s the case, then the Netflix translation is correct. What she planted was in essence an “Imaginary plant” because there’s NO such plant as “Longing.” It doesn’t exist.
Do you get me?
Ref. ID, “every duplicate thing, or every duplicate BODY, that disappeared in Corea or Korea, was lost due to a criminal activity.” I just remembered that the PM asked her secretary guy for information on Tae-Eul. He’s the one who recruited the wardrobe woman and she had information on a guest at the palace.
With that ID, I thought TE took it from LG already when he gave it to her while she was eating his steak with rice but LG must have taken it from her again. So the one that he gave her was the 25 year old card (ID-1).
PALMpilot? I learned something new again today. Thanks 🙂
OT.
I wonder how many apologies will be made during the series’ airing? This is the second one if I’m not wrong?
https://www.soompi.com/article/1398624wpp/the-king-eternal-monarch-producer-issues-apology-about-depiction-of-japanese-warships
This “no-man’s-land” is NOT inside the portal. They didn’t go back inside.
The portal is in the bamboo grove.
1. They left the grove to go to the racetrack with the guards following them.
2. They entered that “no-man’s-land” or “in-between” place.
3. They went to the stables to drop off horse.
4. They went a roundabout way to the palace. They took the yacht.
5. They arrived at the palace.
So the “in-between place” is near the racetrack and the stables.
And all three: the racetrack, “in-between place” and stables aren’t connected to the palace.
If we plot them on a highway,
The bamboo grove would be at mile marker: 0
and the palace is mile maker: 1.
And the racetrack, “in-between place” and the stable ARE really somewhere between 0 and 1.
lol
Yes to your A1. His place is more fairy tale than his. Which gives you the feeling that everything’s a dream, right?
JUST FOR @GROWING BEAUTIFULLY ALONE (please do NOT make me explain this right now)
But the “King’s Dream” is still a theory-in-progress for me so I don’t want to write about it. It’ll only add to the confusion so I’m waiting for the writer. All I can say is *if* (and that’s a very big *if*) he’s dreaming just like Alice, then the Old Court Lady Noh is the one who knows that he’s dreaming. Kinda like Morpheus in “The Matrix” helping out Neo.
Anyway, I see that you’re getting the idea of the “King’s Dream” on your own. Keep working…keep working it. I almost accidentally shared it with @no-name but then I edited my comment. lol.
I promised myself I’m going to finish another post on Lee MinHo/Lee Gon so I’ll have to stop answering comments on the blog for now. 🙂
“I just remembered that the PM asked her secretary guy for information on Tae-Eul. He’s the one who recruited the wardrobe woman and she had information on a guest at the palace.”
Yeah, new ID could very well be in PM’s hands by episode 7 which brings to mind what LG said to TE, ‘I hope this does not put you in trouble’. PM is definitely trouble especially with her jealous look but more so if/when she gives the ID to LL.
You got it, Fern.
There are spies inside the palace. Two, right? Or at least two that we know of.
One is sent by Lee Lim the Bad Uncle. She works for Old Court Lady Noh. So my guess it SHE’s the one who took it.
The other one is hired by the Koo the Prime Minister. A “wardrobe woman.” But are we sure it’s a woman? We don’t want to make the same mistake as LADY Maximus. lol
For now, we’re not sure whether Lee Lim and Koo are together. But I’m leaning towards a “no.”
You see, Fern, that umbrella that Lee Lim left at Koo’s mother’s market stand was deliberately LEFT there to gather information on Koo, in Episode 3. I think that’s how Lee Lim figured out that she was part of that “dinner group” with the ladies in Episode 5. I don’t know what he’s planning to do but he’s targeting that pregnant woman in Koo’s dinner group, right? The one who was born in July 12, 1989, and was the granddaughter of the founder of large pharmaceutical company in Corea, and wife of a rich man. He coerced the Korean version to agree to kill the Corean granddaughter and switch identity.
So, for now, I say that the stolen ID had nothing to do with Einstein theory but plain criminal intent. 🙂
“The second one pertains to the poem “Invocation of the Dead.” But I won’t discuss this now. I don’t have time, and I’m confident that you can all come up with your theories or analyses of that.
Hint: he was giving his name because that name would always have an owner. He would always answer because he was the “eternal” king.”
Only TE can call LG by his name because he gave it to her so she ‘owns’ it and she will call on him whenever she thinks of him or when she feels she wants to see him or when she longs for him.
I don’t think Koo and Lee Lim are working together right now. Maybe in the future, but not now.
You see, Lee Lim left that umbrella at Koo’s mom’s stand to spy on Koo. Koo didn’t recognize the umbrella. 🙂
Then both Lee Lim and Koo put in their own people in the palace to spy for them.
Lee Lim’s person is the Lady Noh’s coffee lady. She’s the lady who went to the bookstore and saw the yoyo boy. She left the message in the book that the King is not in the palace.
You’re right @pm3. They have their own spies in the Palace. LL’s spy we figured was Shinjae’s Mom. So LG was right in saying that he is a danger to TE at the end of episode 6.
@packmule3 I am pretty sure writer used the poem as inspiration. Because there’s talk about planting a seed and a longing in the lines of the poem and there’s also the imagery of a famous mountain which is used as a sign of longevity (long life). I will break it down later when I get the time. It is more like “longing” – what I am unsure about is whether it links to a homecoming type longing (eg when you’re exiled and you long for your homeland) or if it’s a longing to return to a beloved or both. It’s too coincidental for it to just be the name of a plant.
Didn’t you have a Palm? I loved my Blackberry, though.
I think LG just showed it to her. She wanted him to “show” it to her as proof.
But she didn’t want it because what would she do with two? She was going to get her ID back anyway, (or at least she thought she was getting hers back).
It’s supplication rather than dialogue, but my mind keeps going back to HCL Noh’s prayer at the time of the naval confrontation with Japan. With the white bowl set on top of the fermentation jar, it reminded me of the old bowl outside the abandoned house in the DMZ that we learned about in CLOY.
I wondered why was HCL Noh prayed amid the fermentation jars, rather than at a temple. After trying a variety of words as queries on Google, I found an explanation.
“The tradition of cheongsu dates from ancient times, when the purest of well water was collected at the break of dawn. Older Koreans may recall their grandmothers or even their mothers praying before a bowl of clean water placed atop an earthenware vessel (typically containing household staples such as kimchi or bean paste) in the yard.”
I’ve chosen not to share the web address of the site where I found this, because the source smacks of cult to me, but I suspect this description of the traditional practice of cheongsu is accurate.
In another source, an artist describing one of her pieces, I found another brief mention: “In the old days, mothers used a prayer bowl. She filled it with water, and prayed for the children and family. It was a bowl to put your wishes in.”
I love that HCL Noh steps into the role of mother and prays for LG. I wish I knew her background, how she got into her influential position, and whether she has a blood connection with LG. I love that this tradition is home-centered, with earthenware food storage jars instead of temple accoutrements as the setting for prayer.
No, I’ve never had a Palm but I’ve used Pilot pens, that’s all. LOL.
I see it, true, he just wanted to show her that he is telling the truth and the proof was the 25 years old ID card. 🙂
This is my first time commenting here, since I’m glad that someone finally have their take on KES’ works (feels or substance) It amazes me how you are so good in interpreting the king. I’m a big fan of goblin not because of the romance side but because of the dialogues and lines; how is it to die and to live. Also with other KES works like Mr. sunshine. Sorry I’m not good with words but thank you for giving your take on this. I’ve been reading a lot of your posts (also with hospital playlist). And I noticed alot of the kdrama fans are expressing their disappointment over the king but I knew they were there for the feels and not the substance.
Scrap that thought about homecoming, I read it wrong, I delved into the history of the poem and this popped up. There’s a legend about the seed (literal translation red bean?) in the poem 相思. Legend has it that a lady who lost her husband pined for him. She cried tears underneath a tree and she died too and became the red bean (I know…Chinese legends are often really tragic 😂. It ties in to the whole Han thing for Koreans) which is why Chinese folk then attributed the humble red bean to “longing” because of this folklore. The poem talks about the humble red bean with origins from the Southern Kingdom which starts to sprout in spring. It is a reminder of a friendship/relationship – good times shared. Think of it as a Proustian Madeleine moment. The red bean (seed) when it sprouts (the act of sowing it), conjures up good memories of time past (with a lover/close friend/family). Does it fit with the plot line thus far? I haven’t watched past Ep5.
@pkml3
I did really think at first that the sequence was as you say, however for the reasons below, I changed my mind:
This is the sequence given to us viewers, however I was reminded that several times, show has given us scenes NOT in sequence. The very first Episode, Ep 1for eg., where LL is interrogated by TE is now obviously a scene somewhere in the future, not even in the timeline of the first 6 episodes.
I’ve found myself wondering from time to time, if I was watching the progress going forwards or backwards, and that’s why I changed to subscribe to the idea that the ‘in between land’ might have taken place before they came out of the portal and met Yeong and the bodyguards. It was a land in which only the both of them were. No Yeong and no bodyguards.
It does not seem to be a place that is mentioned by anyone in KOC. LG does not discuss it with anyone. The reason, I feel, is because he thought that he’s the only one who knows of it but he does not know what it is, therefore as a scientist with an unproven theory, he experiments and does not speak of his ‘findings’ yet.
TE had asked: “What is this place? Is it some kind of fourth dimension?”
LG: “I’m not sure yet. I guess we can say it’s something between 1 and 0 in my world and yours. This is a place that cannot be explained scientifically.” – I interpret this to mean that it is literally on the way between her world when they entered the portal, and before they exited to his world.
I believe, that when he returned to KOC on his own, he proceeded to make scientific observations of that ‘place’. He left a balloon there to see if it would float away or pop or sink. But it remained exactly where he left it. It was a ‘place’ where nothing changed.
LG :”Time flows differently here as well. One minute here is about an hour outside. My watch stops here, so I went back and forth for several days to check.”
Realising that time had stood still before, he experimented with time. He went in and out of that ‘place’ many times and used Euler’s Number, realising that his watch that never lost or gained time, showed that he’d lost more time in KOC than he had spent in the ‘place’. It was a ‘place’ where there was no passage of time.
Speculation: Might this be like experiencing being the reflection of a looking glass?
By the time he returned to the portal with TE, he stopped at this ‘place’ and was able to expound on his experiment. But he didn’t want to take too long, so he said: “I don’t know how deep or how vast this place is. I’ll reach the edge of this place someday. And I’ll tell you all about it. But for today, let’s go to my world.” – which means that they had not yet exited from the Portal and not yet met Yeong and the bodyguards in his world.
the best and the winner is:
“the dragon lady Koo”
ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ my goodness, I can’t say anything. no more. OMG @packmule3 bless your brain <3 thank you.
from now on I know how to call her better.
I'm stil ROFL-ing
@packmule “See, I don’t know if the ID was stolen or it was lost because of quantum mechanics.
But my guess is it was stolen.”
It surely wasn’t lost because of quantum mechanics. It’s just misplaced, stolen or taken by LG himself. It’s this ID, the one that is brand new, that is taken back in time to be dropped to young LG.
The one that grown up was having (ID-1 as you call it), the one LG gave TE, is obviously affected by the passage of time. I have to look again at it but I’m sure I saw the paper being not as white as the brand new one.
As for the no man’s land I agree with @GB. That is how I saw the scene as well. At first, before we knew anything else, I thought that when you go trough the portal you exit immediately on the other side. But after they showed the no man’s land.. that was obviously a memory shown when they race to the stables of where they were in between entering the portal in South Korea and exiting in the Kingdom.
As they are shown again there when LG takes TE back to South Korea, through the portal, through the land that is between 1 & 0, between their two real worlds.
I wonder if the evil uncle passes through the same part of the no man’s land or through a different part of it. He should have seen the balloon already if he does.
＠graciax452 Same here! I came here for the poem to help me learn my Korean …….and my work suffer too.
@packmule3 @nrllee
English is not my thing. I try my best.
The seeds that TE gave to LG are 相思草. (相思-草）. 相思 is a classy way to say longing for you, missing you, or thinking of you.草 is flower, grass, or plants.
There are a bunch of things name after 相思.
For example,
相思-樹 is Acacia.
相思-草 is a kind of Lily.
相思-豆 is red beans.
相思-雨 is a sprinkle or drizzle.
I also found out that there is a movie and a song called 相思草 in Korean. So I suppose Korean are familiar with this word.
Considering the opening introduction, a flute came out from the roots of a big tree, Acacia would be a good guess. But I’m not sure about that, after all, Hanja is not used that much in Korea these days.
So I focused on the point that it was not just a souvenir, but a confession.
I hope I did not bore you with Hanja.
Hi @oli,
One of the other speculations about that no man’s land is that it is the interior of the flute. Traveling along the narrow strip of land is like moving through the length of the flute. Taking this idea … it could be that LG is travelling through in his half of the flute while LL will travel in the other half of the flute. They won’t meet in their travels through the portal, since they use different parts of the flute.
I have a theory about time stopping on the outside of the portal. The whole flute is a means to summon the portal and to link the 2 universes. Once inside the portal, the flute is in a timeless ‘state’ and this affects the universes, but those outside the portal will not be aware of it. Having passed through the portal, would make one sensitive to the halt in time.
In addition, the whole flute or both parts of it, and both holders of the flute, would have had to pass through the portal in order for them both to be affected.
When only half the flute passed through the portal with LL, LG was not aware of any halt in time. LL himself might have become aware that he gained time or lost time when he emerged from the portal, but not that time had stopped outside it.
LG only became aware of it after he himself had passed through to the ROK, and only when LL went through the portal.
LL may have spent weeks in the no man’s land and emerged years later. He said that he was not aware of the passage of time, but he knew that his ageing had slowed. It will be very interesting to know what LL may have done in his section of no man’s land. Might it be a place where he could train his minions without them ageing as well?
So now both LG and LL can see time stand still, and presumably both will have their ageing affected as well. I’m not too sure about TE, now that she has passed through the portal twice. She did not seem to notice anything when LG came back… but maybe I’m ahead of the show, we may well see in flashbacks if she also experienced time standing still.
Thanks for the information @kuroshio! It’s helpful. I tend to agree with you. The rather blunt and awkward liberal arts student may have been embarrassed to declare that she would miss LG, and used the name of the plant and the seeds to tell him that she would long for him until he returned. That certainly ties in with her running up to him to give him the hug that he’d hoped for when he cooked for her. 😄
So… I was right about acacia then, kuroshio?
But wait a minute!! Let’s not “seal the deal” just yet on acacia.
It could be Acacia. It could be Lily. It could be red beans (lol. hey, I know it’s unromantic, but it has a fairy tale connection. “Jack and Beanstalk” comes in mind).
Now how do we whittle down the choices?
a. look at the drawing on the packet.
The illustration doesn’t look like an acacia tree. Does it look like a lily? I don’t think so either. What about red beans? hahaha.
b. find which one of the three means “longing”
Lily is a good one. We usually have lilies for easter. But that means “devotion.” I don’t know if lilies stand for “longing” and “yearning” though.
Acacia is usually planted in cemeteries…so yes, I would say that’s a good one because death is the ultimate separation, right? The only problem is I know how a tree looks like and that drawing packet doesn’t look anything like a tree. 🙂
See? I’m still not convinced it’s one of these plants.
And no, you didn’t bore with the Hanja. 🙂
Just placing this here because of the acacia and other stuff… Will that be helpful?
https://chinesebanyan.wordpress.com/2013/04/23/april-lovesick/amp/
“Acadia confusa is called the flower of April Lovesickness – as its Chinese name literally means ‘lovesickness’ and the tree blossoms in April.”
*New reader here – I am truly thankful for these posts!
Oh wow! You’re in!! You’re among the Bitches, now.
Thanks for your input. 🙂
So acacia it is then.
@Packmule3, I’m not sure what thread to put this in, but I didn’t want to lose track of a time clue in ep. 4, starting at time marker 51:36. Lee Lim has just returned to Republic of Korea, and is being chauffeured. They drive by a city street clock; Lee Lim looks at it, pulls out a pocket watch, then moves its time forward. We don’t see his full action, so we don’t know by how much he moved the time on his pocket watch, but it is at least by half an hour.
Either time is different between the parallel worlds, or his pocket watch stopped while he was in a timeless zone. LG says that a minute in the unknown dimension equals about an hour outside.
@Welmaris good catch! I was making notes on the time standing still (posted above) and wondered if LG and LL adjusted their watches.
It is me and plants again – that detail became interesting for me, thus I had to do a small research again… Previously, I placed the 相思 with “flower” in Google, nothing really caught my eye. With phrase “相思 tree” I found the article I linked here and photos of acacia. I wasn’t fulfilled with the results, so later I tried to search in korean (with my poor skills and in a primitive way, still using Google 🙂). I typed 相思 with 꽃 (flower) and most of the photos and articles were about lily. I found this:
http://encykorea.aks.ac.kr/Contents/Item/E0075178
“The name Sangsahwa is a name given to the meaning that a flower misses a leaf and a leaf misses a flower, but never meets, because when a flower blooms, there are no leaves, and when there is a leaf, the flower does not bloom. The scientific name is Lycoris squamigera Maxim.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lycoris_squamigera
“The flowers spring dramatically from the ground in mid to late summer; it usually takes only four to five days from first emergence to full bloom. This suddenness is reflected in its common names: surprise lily, magic lily, and resurrection lily.” (Interesting…)
Doesn’t it fit too? I guess we have to wait for KES…
(By the way, I found a nice fitting song https://lyricstranslate.com/pl/sangsahwa-magic-lily.html I think it’s from another drama that I haven’t watched)
Next, I tried to search 相思 with 나무 (which means tree) and the result was lily again.
My searching session didn’t end on Google. I decided to try with Naver. I found articles about lilies, which contained the same information that I have written about earlier and also some stories I wasn’t able to identify properly because of the poor automatic translation. There was something about red beans too.
https://m.search.naver.com/search.naver?sm=mtb_sug.psn&where=m&oquery=%E7%9B%B8%E6%80%9D+%EB%82%98%EB%AC%B4&tqi=UrR%2BJsprvAdssvTL4CVssssstEZ-221296&query=%E7%9B%B8%E6%80%9D+%EA%BD%83&acq=%E7%9B%B8%E6%80%9D&acr=1&qdt=0
https://m.search.naver.com/search.naver?sm=mtb_sug.psn&where=m&oquery=%E7%9B%B8%E6%80%9D+%EA%BD%83&tqi=UrR%2FSwprvj4sslyna0RssssssKG-285957&query=%E7%9B%B8%E6%80%9D+%EB%82%98%EB%AC%B4&acq=%E7%9B%B8%E6%80%9D&acr=1&qdt=0
I might have missed something you wrote about though.
@oli @pkml3
Correction to my theory above and trying to piece together the logic of the magic:
Hello,
Just for fun I looked up this plant name up in Japanese, since the classic etymology of plants in Japan originates from China, something I believe is shared with classic Korean plant etymology.
The word I looked up is “相思草,” where “草” means “plant.” What came up is Nicotiana tabacum, more commonly known as tobacco. The name traces back to a Chinese book published in 1661 called “本草洞詮.”
The tobacco flower is a light pink. Perhaps that’s what’s planted in the flower field juxtaposed against the gingko tree in one of the opening shots? All the colors in that shot are deeply saturated so it could very well be. This Wikipedia entry has some botanical illustrations, but I couldn’t find a picture of the seed packet online to double-check the drawing.
“相思” carries the same meaning in Japanese as it had originally in China. It means mutual love. Is this the same in Korean?
According to Japanese sources, the plant was named this in Chinese because – the effects of the nicotine? – it was a plant that you would think back to often and couldn’t easily forget. Mutual love indeed.
Sources:
– en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotiana_tabacum
– blog.goo.ne.jp/yoshi13711/e/a92028d77e0ce84e3df114fed5ba85db
– home.r02.itscom.net/ktym/aldehyde/box22/column-230.html
(The translate.google.com site can provide the gist of the translation into English, though be aware that ~10% of the translation is very strange.)
I tried posting once before to a Crash Landing On You discussion but it didn’t work, so I’m officially a newbie here. 🙂 The discussions on this site remind me of my comp. lit. classes from university days. Lots of fun to read and ponder.
@magpie, in episode 12 at time mark 35:07, Luna is browsing through Tae Eul’s phone and comes on a page “How to raise a magic lily.” It looks like this is confirmation that the seeds TE planted were magic lily, or resurrection lily: Lycoris squamigera Maxim.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1htFW8N4UpLU4On99yFXLBEW0wHcFmBfj/view?usp=sharing
@welmaris, ahh thanks for that. I hadn’t watched Ep 12 yet.