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Let’s enjoy the show.
114 Comments On “The King: Eps 7 & 8 Open Thread”
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The thread is now open for your spoilers, rants, comments, analyses, observations, and theories.
Let’s enjoy the show.
Comments are closed.
Yaay! It’s Friday again 😀 Time to see my MaxMin and come back to discuss all sorts of theories here 😛 I’m a liberal arts person, so the sciencey stuff often goes above my head, but I love reading it anyways 🙂
Time for my dose of WDH and KKN 😀
I still need to see KKN in his uniform!
Since I cannot comment on that ‘Red king’s dream’ post, I wanted to say that dali reference was kind of spot on I guess. I got curious and I do know about Dali , but sort of had no idea how he came up with this idea of surrealism. So from one of the websites I quote this excerpt, “He depicted a dream world in which commonplace objects are juxtaposed, deformed, or otherwise metamorphosed in a bizarre and irrational fashion”. So you are quite right about that part I guess.
And the Alice comparison posts have been very interesting as well. Now I’m curious to go back and read Alice in wonderland haha. Sadly I have no time for that.
I would love to think JTE was part of lee gon’s dream and vice versa,if that’s what you mean in literal sense.
But I hope she’s smart enough to handle that. I’m sure she is but people are somewhat not giving her credit for this drama and that is kinda disappointing.:))
I mean I hope KES is smart enough to handle that *
Just coz we’re like deep into algorithms and Euler’s number and all… Elon’s new baby name… 😂🙄 How do you even pronounce that? Do we just refer to him as X-baby? Then X-Boy? And the final metamorphosis into X-Man.
X Æ A-12 Musk
That’s a name? WT?! Poor kid
You said it @mychoiyoung !
Is it legal? In Switzerland, they can forbid some names if the first name prejudices the child’s interests.
@nrllee I read that too in the news. How does one even pronounce it? Poor kid..will they have an alternative nick name? Imagine writing that on the passport!😮😮 Will be bullied at school. Can’t imagine living through whole life with an unpronounceable unintelligible name like that😖
Different states, different laws. But baby’s name not legal in California.
This poster/stiker makes me want to read Alice in Wonderland again. It’s been decades since I last laid eyes on it, and in a totally different language. In a sense, I am hoping for that “Because This is My First Life” experience of To Room Nineteen. As we age, we understand things differently, and the analogy used in TK:EM has sparked my curiosity again.
I am looking forward to the new episodes. While I still think LMH is not a great actor, he has improved much from the one other show I saw him on (The Heirs), and the regal role does suit him. I really like the tomboyish FL. She is relatable and charismatic. Fingers crossed for some happy ending on this show. Everything I have watched recently is sad. Do people not believe in JA anymore? Sigh.
@IcedFireAngel, Lee Min Ho was actually quite good in his previous dramas, like Faith was really good. I think he needs more roles with gravity, and not just pick romance dramas. Maybe next time we can see something different from him, to show that he can do more than fluffy. 🙂
Although king is not totally fluffy haha, it has filler scenes, but also there are serious ones.
I just started watching and here are a few eternal nuggets so far …
Who kills whom? LJI x NON? LJI x LG?
While Noh Ok-Nam and Lee Jong-In have a discussion at Lee Lim’s resting place.
LJI – Usually when two people have a conversation like this, one of them kills the other.
NON – That’s an absurd joke …
LJI – *Laughs*
Keep in mind the previous scene was LJI having a conversation with LG regarding Lee Lim’s death certificate.
There can only be One (One = 1, One starts w/ a “O”)
JTE – Lets say there’s another world, and … there’s someone who looks exactly like you there. How would you feel if you meet that someone?
Nari – Are you talking about a doppelgangers? I would have to kill her, of course.
JTE – Hey. How can you say such a thing in front of a detective?
Nari – One of the doppelgangers always ends up dying. That’s the rule of the universe.
JTE – Why is that the rule?
Nari – If there’s two of something when there’s supposed to be one, it will cause chaos in the world. One café in this alley is enough, and Hero Taekwondo center is enough for this neighborhood. The world needs balance. Tae-eul, why would NASA hide the existence of aliens? If there are two worlds, then one world is bound to destroy the other. We can’t be the one that’s destroyed.
@Nearsea- I have not seen any other works by him. I started Legend of the Blue Sea and dropped it two episodes in. I really am enjoying TK:EM; if anything, his “composed” demeanor is fitting to the role, so I appreciate it.
I’ll look for Faith, if it is on Viki or Netflix, and I can read some spoilers that it does not have a sad ending. Thanks for the recommendation.
Thanks, John.
Nari is partly correct. The two worlds can exist but the portal between the two must be shut down.
We have binary stars in the galaxy. Don’t quote me on this, but I think many of the systems in our galaxy have more than one star. We have a single star, the Sun, but in other systems in the Milky Way, they have binary, ternary, multiple star systems. Now these stars can evolve independent of each other. But when they come in close contact, one star can start “sucking” matter from the other star, like a vampire. lol.
Now, in our kdrama. All the rare materials are in Lee Gon’s world. Corea. I always thought possession of LG’s northern fields was ONE of the many possible reasons for the uncle to seek control of two worlds.
@packmule3 – Was thinking the same thing. This becomes more evident when LR sent the newspaper clipping to PM re Trump visiting NK. So it begs the question: why is LR interested in NK? Why is he into getting big businesses?
In another vein – that laugh of LJI? So unnerving! I was holding my breath half-expecting he will just shove Ok-Nam in the waters!
My theory after watching Ep7 is that SJ is from KoC brought by LL to RoK. I also think that RoK LG is alive and being trained by LL to be an assassin.
Dear @Say08, my guess is that ROK’s Lee Gon is truly dead, wich is a pity from Uncle’s point of view (it would have been sooooo easy to switch them…).
Prime Minister of KOC really lacks imagination. But as the history progresses she will also be swallowed by the Rabbit Hole (which is very different of what Lee Gon did, he voluntarily entered said hole so he could retain his agency).
On Elon Musk’s terrible name for a child I remember one of my eldest sister’s friend called “Amor” (Love)… the bad thing is that her last name is “Bastardo” (Bastard)!!!. So she was “Amor Bastardo” (Bastard Love). She studied to be a Lawyer and her very first case was herself having a name change. Can’t blame her at all. I can’t laugh because it is not a joke but a really cheap doing from her God damned irresponsible parents.
Will comment further tomorrow with Episode 8 under my belt.
I had to look up mugwort, the flower Sin-jae said that he preferred to lavender. Lavender promotes calmness and is supposed to help with sleep. Mugwort is a plant from the artemesia family as is wormwood, which is used to make absinthe. Mugwort is supposed to help with lucid dreaming. Caveat: I am not at all a herbalist. I asked Dr Google.
Is it possible that Sin-jae was swapped as a child?
Hi, @FGB4877! Yeah, I guess I was heading towards a “switch” plot. It would make a lame twist then. I just thought of that possibility after reading @GB’s comment in another post here about LL’s section of no-man’s land being a place where he trains his minions. I even think the salt land is LL’s no-man’s land.
Agree to being swapped.
To me, there are (at least) two possibilities:
A. He has a “twin” in Corea and he’s seeing/feeling what his twin is seeing/feeling in Corea —
-like Yeong and Eunsub. Eunsub burned his hand although he ordered iced coffee because Yeong burned his hand. Eunsub felt Yeong’s pain.
-like the White Rabbit/Luna and TaeEul. TaeEul clutched her chest for a brief second in the car in Episode 1 after she saw Luna’s image on the rearview mirror. (According to the press releases/teasers, Luna was diagnosed with some illness and has only 3 months to live.) TaeEul felt Luna’s pain.
– we still have to test this theory on Nari and the Corean girl. That is, when the Corean version feels pain, the Korean counterpart feels it too.
But so far, we haven’t seen SinJae’s “twin” in Corea.
He shouldn’t be seeing the logo visions on his own if he doesn’t have a counterpart in Corea so…..
B. He could be the Corean version who ended up living in Korea.
If so, there are at least, two possibilities (again)
1. His family would have been well-connected, part of Lee Lim’s entourage, or hiding from something in Corea. Otherwise, why would his family leave Corea for an unknown world?
2. His family is Korean, but he was swapped as a child and he forgot about it (Post-traumatic stress)
His family lost everything 15 years ago or when he was 18. Lee Gon would have been 18, too. Shin Jae and LeeGon are both the same age.
That’s a good idea, Say08.
Lee Lim’s salt farm is his answer to Lee Gon’s no-man’s land.
They’re both in Corea, too.
Episode 7…
This drama definitely fails in terms of rhythm.
The first 25 minutes of the episode(approximately). It’s a flashback. Rather than saying it’s a flashback, I’m going to consider the end scene of episode 6 as a Flashforward.
Why is it a flashforward? I don’t have any answers except this one: the end scene of episode 6 was a very good cliffhanger. So, the episode must end there. If something couldn’t be told, it goes into the next episode. It’s a very handy trick, and I don’t have a negative point of view about it.
EXCEPT THAT : Episode 6 was flabby, with unnecessarily long scenes, like from the beginning of the drama. In fact, the first 20 minutes of Episode 7 could have been told in Episode 6, as it has been since the beginning of the drama. A sluggish drama that stretches the scenes unnecessarily. Not only the scenes but also the unnecessary situations and characters.
Around 25:00 : the scene with LL, the main villain. As the script has been misdirected from the beginning, I already forgot which other characters are coming here. So it’s a scene that I discover, as if it was the first time I saw all these people. Besides, maybe I don’t know, but who knows if it’s not the case? Maybe it’s the first time they appear in the story…
Nevertheless, I note one positive point: Timestops are at least interesting, they alert the characters to the comings and goings between the two worlds. I don’t see why not. After all, the passage from one dimension to the other needs a kind of “landing gear”, like for airplanes.
Around 35:00 a series of humorous scenes take place. I can’t blame the writer because it was very well written and very funny. Except that everything falls flat. Like that kind of scene in the Goblin drama, which was a nullity because of the script. But here, the script is not responsible. If it had been done by the director of Secret Garden, it would have been just as funny as the gags in Secret Garden in the early episodes. Unfortunately, in TKEM, something is wrong. The directing, the editing, or the background music, I don’t know. All I know is that at least the writer wrote good scenes, which were spoiled.
TE and LG are dating: these are good scenes that show the couple, like an ordinary couple, getting to know each other, and dating. They eat, of course, a chicken dish that could feed a dorm of 10 students. ^^
57:00: I’m for the deletion, not only of this scene, but also the complete eradication of the script of these two useless characters. No wonder it’s so sloppy with this kind of sideshow. “It’s not snowing much this year.” “Oh, the beef is burning.” SINCHA?!
All in all, this drama may be successful in some aspects of the story’s background, but it’s a complete failure in terms of storytelling and the pace of the story. So, I really wonder what was the point of all the KES writer’s efforts to build up so much depth, if it’s only to end up with something with very little narrative interest, without causing any addiction in the viewer?! There, she could just as well paint a painting in the style of Dali, and I would be delighted to look at it, rather than lose 4 hours.
As I said before, but I repeat it for sure : it’s a completely failed and soporific version of what a screenwriter like Song Jae-Jung can do, without any more depth. I wouldn’t go so far as to accuse KES of plagiarism, but it’s really a style that she’s incompetent for.
There’s also another possible explanation: the drama was planned for two or three seasons, rather than just one.
They’ve really made it a point to showcase the character’s shooting ability, haven’t they? Namely, LG being horrible at it, TE being good but SJ better. At first I thought the masked saviour in the beginning was LG himself, but I’m leaning more and more towards SJ now. Unless they made a bad stunt double choice for TE (which wouldn’t surprise me either, tbh)
Can’t really figure out how SJ would end up being the one to save young LG tough. He definitely serves a higher purpose here, but to that extent? But as TE said, he’s one of the people who will help you reglardless of what – and maybe that’s enough for character motivation.
Upon seeing gangster-like Luna, I was convinced even more why KGE is perfect for the role. Now, don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying I agree what haters are saying that she’s not pretty. I actually think she is. She’s a classy and elegant actress, too. But for me, TE as police officer and Luna as a criminal can’t just be a doll-faced damsel (waiting for love to happen to her while juggling all sorts of clichè pressures) we often see from indecisive KDrama heroines. KES or whoever casted her in this drama must have noticed her no-nonsense portrayal of her characters in Goblin and CiTT would fit TE/Luna. I can only think of one other actress who can be good as TE too, Shin Min Ah. But I’m not comfortable seeing a noona romance here.
I’m new here, btw. I’m really happy to have found kindred spirits from KDramaland.
@Say08: Since I’m a man, I’ll answer you about TGE.
In the drama episode 7, there is a scene where she declares that she didn’t do the double eyelid surgery. It’s considered a plastic surgery operation here. But in Korea, it’s as commonplace as getting your teeth cleaned. So it’s not really cosmetic surgery, or hardly. As a result, many women (especially actresses) actually become prettier. But this has a knock-on effect: the double eyelid sometimes becomes triple or quadruple eyelid, when the person is tired. And that is not very pretty.
The actress TGE has not had double eyelid surgery. And yet I find her exceptionally beautiful from the face. She’s really the kind of actress who makes me want to see drama. That’s 50% of the reason why I watch TKEM even though the drama is painful!
Hello @Wechanteur, good to have another dude to compare notes with! =D . For me the really gorgeous one is the Prime Minister Lady (Ms. Jung Eun-Chae) but Ms. Kim Go-Eun is still very beautiful. Also I kind of like her vibe.
@Say08, returning to the name of Elon Musk’s son, now you know that a name can be given, but also a name can be PERPETRATED upon someone.
See you tomorrow!
BTW, my attempt at a Checkov’s Gun in order to have a happy ending (this particular writer is more interested in offering an ending coherent with the rules of the world she creates rather than sugarcoating it) is that Luna will be sacrificed to save Lieutenant Jung.
Thank you for pointing out that scene, @WEnchanteur! Now that I think of it, it felt like a subtle way of telling the haters, “Look, I have monolids but I’m still beautiful.”.
That’s really an interesting part of their culture. I read somewhere that some teens even ask their parents for the surgery as a birthday gift.
@Say08
Wow, you surprise and delight me.
“Look, I have monolids but I’m still beautiful.”
Yeah, all the more reason to show how beautiful she is!
I don’t really understand why people don’t like her.
I found this intimate video of her on the internet:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUh2VoJEGII
It’s tender and warm, this actress touches my heart.
@Em, “They’ve really made it a point to showcase the character’s shooting ability, haven’t they? Namely, LG being horrible at it, TE being good but SJ better.” I thought about this, too. But LG decided earlier that SJ wasn’t the person for some reason – wrong look or height. -Although we see now that SJ has the skills. If there were two saviors in a team, one with less skills could shoot the ceiling (big target), but definitely the other had top shooting skills. I thought I nearly had it figured out, but perhaps not.
Hmmmm perhaps still too early to say but I sense a pattern here in terms of distributing the actor-character highlights when writing scripts —
1st – they built-up SJ. They made sure we know about his back story and the script made sure that the actor is showcased. He is, as the producers say, the secret weapon.
Now – it is JY. I think epis 7-8 will be his, building up with SJ.
Next – it will be KGE’s time to shine, what with Luna being introduced. KGE will probably reign in epis 9-10, both as TE & Luna
Next-next – Then it will be the actor playing LR to shine. LR has to show his diabolical genius for epis 11-12
Then – for epis 13-14 will be LMH; It is the King’s turn to show his stuff
Epis 15-16 will be the assemblage of all the main characters, minus some probable casualties.
Let us see how this goes…
A reflection I have to make.
How I didn’t understand the script because of my personal experience!
Have you ever been to a carnival, to the shooting range, to win teddy bears?!
In Episode 5 (or 6), Lee Gon tells how he was scammed at the shooting range.
I necessarily believed what he said. I deduced that he was a good shooter, but that the showman cheated him.
How could I think otherwise?
I know perfectly well that the weapons at this kind of shooting range are completely doctored. Even a marksman doesn’t have a chance of succeeding. The barrels of the guns are filed down, and the lead bullet can go randomly in any direction.
If these weapons were used in warfare, you would be shooting in your teammate’s eye, or in your foot, at random, rather than shooting at the enemy!
So I figured out that LG was a sniper but got scammed. Episode 7, now that’ not so! In fact, he was a bad shooter? TE is able to shoot at the carnival because she’ a real sniper?!
Carnivals in Korea are fun, at least you can win something at the gun range !!
Re that flashback with SJ – for a sec I thought they will show his nightmare of his mom strangling him! The character introduction did say that that was his nightmares all along.
I wonder if they will ever show that or just talk about it.
Ref Sin-Jae, @packmule3, I was wondering about your suggestion ‘B. He could be the Corean version who ended up living in Korea’ and ‘2. His family is Korean, but he was swapped as a child and he forgot about it (Post-traumatic stress)’
SJ wakes in a hospital bed. Could Lee Lim have injured SJ’s Corean doppelganger and swapped him for murdered Korean child SJ? He clearly has SJ’s Corean mother under his power. Since he is familiar with mugwort, I wonder if Sin-Jae has tried to use it to recall his dreams rather than avoid them. Since Sin-Jae’s alternate isn’t mentioned in the cast list, I would think that he is unique or his double is now dead. On the other hand, why would the uncle start stalking him only now?
I also wondered about Eun-Sop’s twin siblings. Jo Yeong says that he doesn’t have siblings because his parents divorced. Unless he does but doesn’t know about them.
All of the photos of families and the ID give us and the characters clues to identity. My screen isn’t very good. Did Sin-Jae actually see someone with a camera in the car when he was eating with his boss?
WEnchanteur – that is also what I thought. That the carnival shooting game was rigged. That’s why he exclaimed to TE “I knew it! Everyone in your country is a swindler.
So I thought he is in reality a good shooter
Well, if the theory of a time loop is right, perhaps after so many loops he perfected his aim, LOL!
@mychoiyoung, your post wasn’t up yet when I was writing about Sin-Jae. How interesting! So I wonder if it was the Korean or Corean mother who strangled him?
@packmule3 thanks for all the posts here! All these has been making my experience of watching TK:EM tremendously fun, and made me realise the depth of the writing, because, like @WEnchanteur, somehow this show was falling flat for me, and I can’t quite put a pin on why but WEchanteur made me realise how.
@everyone thanks for all the comments and theories! I would not have been able to come up with most of them on my own!
I like the swapping theories about SJ, and it makes sense due to his recognizing the emblem of Corea. Just one very out of the way theory here (and I am not sure if someone had already mentioned it and i might have read it) what if somehow SJ is LL’s son? (Like ala Star Wars?) I feel there has been no mention about any family or relatives of LL thus far strange, especially if 25 years have past. But there hasn’t been clues on this so far I think, so this theory might not work
@FERN, you asked —
YUP! That was the purpose of that scene. To establish that SJ knows he is being followed. After all, the show has been consistent in showing that SJ is a good detective.
I think that in terms of chess analogy, SJ may be a knight. The knight is the only piece that can jump over other pieces may this be enemy pieces or pieces in its own team. It has a relatively short range of action vs the bishop (in my theory, JY) but the knight compensates that with the fact that it can jump over other pieces.
Perhaps he will jump over LR’s side BUT only as a decoy so he can ascertain his plan. Deep down he is an upright person. Plus, I do not think he has the heart to betray the show’s queen, TE notwithstanding LG.
SJ did say to TE “If you are fine, then I am fine” 🙂
I’m back to not following this drama 🙄 and this time, I don’t feel like making the effort. I’m an individual with doctorate level education having no trouble in navigating daily life on planet Earth (I should change this to having had no trouble in the past. Recent times have been different 🙊) anyway what I mean is, I’m exasperated at this drama proving me a fool. The romance element erks me too. One of my favourite drama is MoA that had little or no obvious romance so it’s not like that is a mandatory element for me. But really. TK EM is becoming too much.
I sincerely want to enjoy TK EM and participate in the discussions here (I enjoyed it so much during CLoY) but alas, I don’t think I’ll be able to.
Welcome to Bitches, Em. I posted my reply to you on the blog. Thanks. 🙂
I like that analogy. He’s a knight. I’m glad that he’s on her side.
You know in that Alice 2, I mentioned that there’s a White knight that jumps in to save Alice when needed. He helps her become a Queen.
Excerpt from the book (read only to give yourself a reference point. Otherwise, skip this.)
At this moment her thoughts were interrupted by a loud
shouting of ‘Ahoy! Ahoy! Check! and a Knight dressed in
crimson armour, came galloping down upon her, brandishing a great club. Just as he reached her, the horse stopped
suddenly: ‘You’re my prisoner!’ the Knight cried, as he
tumbled off his horse.
Startled as she was, Alice was more frightened for him
than for herself at the moment, and watched him with some
anxiety as he mounted again. As soon as he was comfortably in the saddle, he began once more ‘You’re my— ’ but
here another voice broke in ‘Ahoy! Ahoy! Check!’ and Alice
looked round in some surprise for the new enemy.
This time it was a White Knight. He drew up at Alice’s
side, and tumbled off his horse just as the Red Knight had
done: then he got on again, and the two Knights sat and
looked at each other for some time without speaking. Alice
looked from one to the other in some bewilderment.
‘She’s my prisoner, you know!’ the Red Knight said at
last.
‘Yes, but then I came and rescued her!’ the White
Knight replied.
‘Well, we must fight for her, then,’ said the Red Knight,
as he took up his helmet (which hung from the saddle, and
was something the shape of a horse’s head, and put it on.
‘You will observe the Rules of Battle, of course?’ the
White Knight remarked, putting on his helmet too.
‘I always do,’ said the Red Knight, and they began banging away at each other with such fury that Alice got behind a
tree to be out of the way of the blows.
‘I wonder, now, what the Rules of Battle are,’ she said to
herself, as she watched the fight, timidly peeping out from
her hiding-place: ‘one Rule seems to be, that if one Knight
hits the other, he knocks him off his horse, and if he misses,
he tumbles off himself—and another Rule seems to be that
they hold their clubs with their arms, as if they were Punch
and Judy— What a noise they make when they tumble! Just
102
‘It’s My Own Invention’
like a whole set of fire- irons falling into the fender! And
how quiet the horses are! They let them get on and off them
just as if they were tables!’
Another Rule of Battle, that Alice had not noticed,
seemed to be that they always fell on their heads, and the
battle ended with their both falling off in this way, side by
side: when they got up again, they shook hands, and then the
Red Knight mounted and galloped off.
‘It was a glorious victory, wasn’t it?’ said the White
Knight, as he came up panting.
‘I don’t know,’ Alice said doubtfully. ‘I don’t want to be
anybody’s prisoner. I want to be a Queen.’
‘So you will, when you’ve crossed the next brook,’ said
the White Knight. ‘I’ll see you safe to the end of the
wood— and then I must go back, you know. That’s the end
of my move.’
source: http://birrell.org/andrew/alice/lGlass.pdf
One point I noticed that was repeated in Episode 7 is that 24 years had passed since the body of the fake LL had been found and cremated. That is for 1 year after LG’s father was killed, LL had been ‘on the run’ and was found at the end of that year, dead.
This sets me thinking about that missing year: LL ran from the royal guards and entered the bamboo forest. He was bloody all over and had a badly cut hand. He heard a flute and following its sound, found the portal and entered it.
When we next see him emerge, his shoes are old and dusty, his face and hands have been cleaned up but his collar still has the stain of dried blood. He is in ROK and meets his half brother’s parallel.
I feel that he spent days or weeks wandering around in the portal between 0 and 1 and had not realised that time in months had flown by on the outside. He kills his parallel and drops the body into the sea of KOC, by which time it is 1 year after the king’s death. I started thinking about this because it was highly unlikely that upon first exiting the portal into ROK, LL would have been able to keep a dead body for 1 year, still looking fresh enough to be recognisable.
The fact that LL he remains young looking (at age 69 he still looks like he’s only in his 40s), means he spends long periods of time in that land between 0 and 1.
@GB also interestingly we dont know when in future LL’s interrogation by TE and SJ take place, but his white collared shirt is still splattered with blood🤔🤔
I was amused by the repeated reference to the double eyelid surgery, and thought that it was a pity TE hadn’t saved her money for it after all, because with Luna now out and about, it would have been an additional way to tell them apart.
@mychoiyoung Thanks for the character intro on Shin Jae. I seldom bother to read news before shows air or watch previews, but it looks like those tasks are necessary research for this show!
I find it noteworthy, that while we may be given dream references, the only person who is said to be dreaming is Shin Jae, who has nightmares.
Let’s think about what show gave us about SJ in Ep 7 … His memory (not so much a dream because his eyes were open) was that as a child, he had been in bed, in presumably bad shape. He woke up with an oxygen mask on, and stared at a nice pendant lamp in his room (his family was rich). His mother comes in, in tears, calling his name repeatedly. I’m not sure if I’m imagining it, based on what you’ve shared, but her tears seem to have started even before she reached the bed, and they looked more like tears of guilt/repentance than of concern for her child.
She calls out to her husband that Shin Jae is awake. So his father was still at home at that time. SJ’s eyes move to look at his mother, but they do not look happy or relieved. Do they look wary?
She cries “Shin Jae. Can you recognise me?”
On the wall above his bed is a drawing encompassing a red sun, a lady, a boy and a man with a house behind and a tree next to the man. We assume that he painted his parents and himself. So there is no sign of any sibling or twin. The painting is indistinct. I can’t tell if the figures had facial features or not.
Strangely, and by contrast, next to that drawing, is one of a girl drawn big in pink with big flowers beside her. She has all her facial features and a big smile. It looks more likely to be drawn by a girl. I wonder whom. But one who might have a good image of herself and is happy.
Shin Jae had on what looks like a school blazer. There was a trolley next to his bed with possibly medical paraphernalia, which makes it appear that he had been unconscious for some time. He was also in need of oxygen. Since his mother had asked, “Shin Jae. Can you recognise me?” He must have been pretty badly injured.
Later we know that in his teens, he seems to have been a target of bullies, to have joined a gang and to have become a black belt in Taekwondo. We know his mother has a big gambling problem. It hasn’t gone away even after 3 decades or so, and for some reason his salary is being seized. His rented place presumably is too expensive for him, and now that his mother is in prison, he has ended up sleeping in the night duty room. It’s interesting that TE says Shin Jae also buys the lottery, which is another kind of gambling. He started to see a psychiatrist about his nightmares, but stopped.
We haven’t seen photos of him except in TE’s place.
I’m not sure that we can come to any conclusions except that if that painting was done by him, then he was an only child and possibly his mother felt some responsibility over his bad physical state. Dreams of being strangled may not only be directly about something physical that the mother did, but might be a reference to her draining life out of him by her gambling habit which has sucked him dry enough to end up without even his rented place.
As for the mother. She has a parallel in KOC who works in the palace and is also a mole of LL.
Because SJ knows the flower emblem without recalling what it is, we can also toy with the idea that the mole of LL might be his real mother, who traded giving him a better life in ROK, with her loyalty to LL.
@Phoenix True, we do not know when he is being interrogated by TE. However having a direct hand in murder still seems to be a thing with him. Not only does he get his minions to kill, or corrupts others by getting them to bloody their hands so that they can take over someone else’s life, he also enjoys the ‘bloodbath’.
This show has lots of red in it. And wet bloody floors that reflect. And shots of feet and shoes. I was starting to compile shoe/feet references but there are so many!! And much re-watching is needed so I may not continue.
I agree with HCL Noh, the painting on the floor looked like a blood stain on LG’s white clothes. However the traditional robe that LG wore in this episode was not exactly red. I’d call it a dark purplish-red … Google tells me it’s magenta, but not like the magenta I’ve seen in printer inks! Even LG’s lips looked reddish! LOL. That has no significance I think … only if we want to call him a truly red king.
@PikaLuna Welcome. That’s certainly another theory about Shin Jae. There’s no evidence for it, but in my long summary about what we sort of know about SJ (above) I do toy with the idea that he had been brought out to ROK as a child, in which case, might he not have encountered Lee Lim/Rim who would have had to bring him to ROK personally, as only he could have opened the portal.
By the way, did anyone notice OCL looking at the unfini3drawing of LG in his room with red paint splashed across and having a foreboding? It unnerves her. There is even a weird music playing in the background. Have we all been wrong and its not TE who might die but LG? 😭😭😭
*unfinished painting left on the floow by the painter (who was trying to paint LG’s red royal robe)
Is this a foreshadowing?
Hi @Phoenix, yup I noticed that red on white and it bothered me too. I was noting the times I see red on floors which if are wet pools, might even reflect people in them.
I feel it’s more likely that LG will be hit (whether that kills him, I don’t know) because he will be the target or he may take the bullet for TE. However anything’s possible.
Universe Collision and Appearances (Faces)
This show is predicated on appearances. Because of the twin or mirror images of Tweedledum and Tweedledee, we cannot be sure of our reality. Is what we see the original or the reflection? Are we the ones who are the mere shadows, who think that we are real? Will there come a time when we can differentiate between true and false.
I was reminded of this verse in the Bible.
1 Cor 13:12 ” 12Now we see but a dim reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
Or a more contemporary version from the New Living Translation: “Now we see things imperfectly, like puzzling reflections in a mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely.”
A comforting assurance that there will be a time when we shall not be left in befuddlement but have the joy of full knowledge. To be fully united with God, even in mind and heart, (finally having the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil).
I felt that the episode played a lot on appearances and incomplete knowledge.
At around 50:00 minutes, TE says “The 2 worlds should not get mixed up like this. They should continue on their respective paths. But the two worlds are already colliding and I’ve discovered it. So what else could I do? I decided to investigate. I’m a police officer of the ROK.”
I noted before that evidence of collision took place from the beginning, starting for us when TE saw the reflection of Luna and this episode it is PM Koo who sees the reflection of her counterpart. So of course I wonder, if there was a reflective surface everywhere, might everyone/anyone see their doppelgangers when either LG or LL passed through the portal.
It seems that only these 2 who hold the flute, witness time standing still. As for everyone else, they may see reflections of their doubles.
And to add to this, we are told by Seung Ah who reports to HCL Noh, that PM’s secretary and his mole in the palace are reflected in two spoons in a photo. Photos pretty much pop up frequently in this show as well. Photos tossed at the pregnant lady, family photos and someone taking shots of Shin Jae. So many images.
We are given more faces to note: the female palace guard is the roommate who finds her roommate dead in ROK. With the succession of Park Mun Haeng’s son, of LG Group, both the father and the son, get replaced with LG’s minions. And we find that LL is very thorough. He has people in the palace, ie more than 1 staff member, plus Park’s son, who is LG’s stable hand, spying for him.
TE chats about not needing her eyelid surgery and that: “I was pretty back then, young, pure, gentle, and intelligent.”
Shin Jae: “Are you drunk? How many good words have you just misused?” LOL. So we have TE’s not quite accurate assessment of herself and how she appeared to others.
Next SJ notes that Jangmi, dressed like a gangster, has come.
TE: ” Where did Jangmi buy his clothes. No one can tell we’re police when he’s with us.”
SJ: “Gangsters take him will take him with them when they run from us.” LOL. It matters what we look like. But does it tell the truth about who we are?
TE goes to the café and is stunned to see Na Ri with short hair, looking like Seung Ah. When she sees Jo Yeong, it takes her ages (shame on her for being a detective and not catching on faster!) to realise that she is not talking to Eun Seop.
The meeting of Yeong and Eun Seop was a hoot! I couldn’t tell if Eun Seop fainted because it was such a shock to see his double or because of the shock that he was so handsome and never knew it. Instead of concern over weightier matters, they went on about being handsome .
Jo Yeong: “How could you not know (that you’re handsome). I’m sure people around you would have told you.”
Eun Seop to TE: “Why didn’t you tell me!” LOL.
Which is your favourite appearance scene or inaccurate knowledge scene?
@GB loved your post! I found that scene between JY and ES hilarious too..esp.when JY with a setuou3face tells ES how can he not know he is handsome 🤣🤣🤣
I have another foreboding that eventually only one doppelganger will be alive. Did you hear that comment that one world will eventually destroy the other as two parallel similar worlds with identical people cannot coexist at the same time? 🤔
*serious face
@GB about all the red motifs, LL seems to have a lot of red colors around him. He uses some sort of red paint at work and is in a black room with red light where he develops those photographs. I’ve noticed there’s a lot of red around whenever LL is om screen. Another unnerving thing.
@Phoenix Yes, doubles/duplicates are not supposed to co-exist in the same time and space, except for twins who are not exactly duplicates. There was foreshadowing of death from the beginning when HCL Noh said that the existence of any one who is not meant to be, is a cause of chaos. Playfully in this Ep 7, Jo Yeong said that if looking alike was the problem, then one of them should be eradicated and both he and TE looked at poor Eun Seop!
From the beginning, Prince Buyeong decided to lie about the corpse because it was irreconcilable with reality, and it was easier to accept 1 dead unknown than to explain 2 duplicates. So death for one of a pair of duplicates was always foreshadowed.
He likes to dabble in red and in blood, wanting to have a hand in killing his own brother and nephew. His motif might be said to be a willingness to shed blood on his way to great power.
@GB, great post. ref Eun Seop to TE: “Why didn’t you tell me!” LOL. It WAS funny! When she first met JY, TE said that she knew his face since she was little. When you grow up with someone, you don’t necessarily realise that they are good looking and even if you do, you probably wouldn’t say so. It took me ages to understand that one of my brothers was good looking. Only realised when girls started asking me about him, because to me, he was just my annoying brother.
The PM favours red, white and black. Like colours in a pack of cards, a chess board or the Red Queen.
Finally the pace picks up a little in Eps. 7-8. Tae Eul and Lee Gon discover that Lee Lim has been switching people probably for years in order to have his own people in place for a coup where he will take both the flute and the throne for himself.
So Sin Jae is from Corea and was switched when he was a little boy, but why the switch? Was he kidnapped to force his Corea Mother to help Evil Uncle? What about Korea Sin Jae? What happened to him? Did he actually die? Still a lot of questions about his storyline. Now that TE and LG are an official couple, I like their interactions together, although I did not like their journey to coupledom. I like how they are working together and I’m looking forward to when everyone in Tae Eul’s circle knows about the parallel Corea world and they can all work together to solve the mysteries and defeat Evil Uncle.
For ep 8, I skipped watching it and just read all of you on the couple of latest posts. I enjoyed it much more and saved a lot of time (of 2x viewing lol) 🙂
Go BoD Go !!*much flag waving*
I couldn’t believe that Eun-Seop and Jo Yeong changed places. That was so OTT. The look on LG’s face when Jo Yeong started speaking with a Busan accent like E-S.
Great episode. @packmule3, the boy with the yo-yo. 🍪🍪🍪 It’s falling into place. Must re-watch.
Hi, I am new here and I love this blog so many awesome theories 😀
I have another one. Is it possible that there is actually 2 teams working in the dark for the last 25 years?
– The Bad Team with Lee Lim’s group switching the doppelgängers between the two worlds to rule both words and destitute Lee Gon
– The good team who orchestrate the meeting between Lee Gon, Tae Eul, Jo Young and Shin-Jae to fight against the bad team. This team is also able to do time travel.
Do you think Luna is actually working in this team ?
* In the first episode she is the one leading Lee Gon to the parallel world.
* As shown in the episode 8, it looks like she is also working with the small child with the Yoyo (with a red rope like the rope of fate or destiny). This child is keeping an eye on the library where Lee Lim is having information from the Palace about King Lee Gon movements in KoC.
* In episode 4 in the RoC, We can see the same Yoyo child hitting Tae Eul with this bike leading her to lost her ID card and thanks to that she gets the new one with the GOOD DATE. Why ? Because she HAS to lost it. This is the card that Lee Gon get in the past when someone save him. (The Yoyo child is also starring at Tae Eul for quite long like he recognized her). Thanks to his new card Tae Eul also accept to follow Lee Gon in KoC and this is when everything start.
* Luna is also gathering a lot of money without using it right now (and have a lot of ennemies ) but for what reason ? For the next ongoing war between Lee Gon and Lee Lim ? And also why she specifically said in the episode 8 “I want money with the King’s face on it” ? Is there any other type of money in KoC or does she knows already that there is another parallel world ?
* Is that possible that Luna is actually Tae Eul who time travel with the past to save Lee Gon and then was stuck in this world since 1994 where she had to live a very sad life?
* Or maybe she was stuck or lost in the dimension between the two worlds and when she was able to get out she decided to prepare stuff against Lee Lim ? (It looks like time pass differently in this “in- between area”. Lee Gon mentioned it and Lee Lim left KoC in December 1994 but the dead body of this doppelgänger was only found in June 1995).
* Maybe she is also not alone in this good “time traveling” team. She is also working with the “guy” who saved Lee Gon in the past. And at some point this good team will be able to take the Tae Eul ID Card from Lee Lim because the savior of Lee Gon has this card with him when he saves Lee Gon. Maybe Luna will get his card after meeting Lee Lim ?
I don’t know just few theories but so far this plot is super interesting!!! Very excited for the next episode!!!!
crash landing in here again (lemme park my unicorn first 🦄)
okay I’m ready
fiuhhh ep 8 are mindblowing!
for 24 years LL seems to (or may be true) have traded a quarter or more of the population between Korea and Corea. so it’s true that I call this no longer a battle between LG and LL, but also a battle between two worlds.
if between Korea and Corea is considered as the alien, it means one of them inevitably has to be destroyed or there should be no further mixing of life.
the question is, did the effect which perceive by LL and LG because they are key holders of parallel world gates? there’s a possibility that the people who being exchanged didn’t experience the same effect. although they might be, if their frequency of alternating between parallel worlds is very intense. but I’m confident in the first choice.
about Shin Jae. so Shin Jae’s real mom (Corea) knows that her child lives in another world (Korea), while her surrogate (Korea) doesn’t seem to know this exchange and doesn’t know that the real Shin Jae is most likely dead. also, according to ep 1, later Shin Jae will side with LG because he helps TE’s interrogation of LL. okay, at least I can calm down because of this.
the next mystery is Lee Sang Dong, who is this Lee Sang Dong? obviously the one who killed him was LL or his followers. but who is he in Corea? is he Prince Buyeong’s son?
ID Card. Geez. I was wrong. LG isn’t the one who hiding TE’s new ID card. but Shin Jae’s mom stole it for LL !!! how could I forget such an important spy 😥
Luna and TE, what plans will LL make for these two people??
Dragon Lady PM Koo, from the shadows that appeared in ep 7, it turns out that Dragon Lady has a doppelganger who is cuter than her. ordinary girl who might be unemployed and poor too. because she start being terrorized and LL appeared brave before her mom, I had thought the danger began to lurk. but based on the Dragon Lady character spoilers, it seems like there will be a cooperation agreement between Dragon Lady and LL instead.
Lee Ji Hun’s mom, she tried to kill herself many times but still alive till now. does it mean she’s be saved literally because getting caught while trying to suicide or LL could bring back a dead person to life???
😥 oh my, my brain is smoking. I think I have to watch Ep 7 and 8 again.
ps.
@pm3 I suddenly remembered your writing about the child who symbolizing the Grim Reaper. YOU ARE RIGHT! and now I really want to take that damn yo-yo, then throw it far into the sea 😭 moreover HCL has given hint that there will be bloodshed through LG’s painting. pls, don’t be like this to me huhuhu
we still have another 8 ep, on Netflix I see that ep 9 and 10 already be uploaded but still in private mode. also ep 15 and 16 already have its airing date.
it’s already half way, but still.. I can’t guess how the legend will unfold.
Hello @packmule3 and everyone:)) I have been lurking around since He is Psychometric and haven’t left since then (disliked the ending but it remained one of my fav dramas, and I’m convinced that you helped me enjoy the drama so much more:)).
Have never commented before cos I feel that I don’t have anything to offer to the discussion😅. But I must say thank you to all of you cos with all the discussions, watching a Kdrama is so much more fun! Everyone here is very observant and knowledgeable wah.
I did not really find TKEM interesting to watch but I keep watching to be able to keep up with the analysis here (and see the writer’s end plot). Luckily, ep 7-8 had faster pace and showed more story development which is great for me. Absolutely love WDH’s acting.
Will definitely contribute to the discussion next time if I find anything worth writing!
Just watched Ep.8. So the boy with the red string yo-yo is actually fate/grim reaper type restoring balance between the two parallel worlds?
Also, Prime Minister Koo’s mim had a dream about her daughter getting in a car accident and losing something, I think because she warned her daughter about these.
I’m mindblown by thr stakeout Tae Eul had with Jang Mi. Did Jang Mi kill the suspect on purpose and then act all innocent about it? The scene was creepy! We have not seen Jang Mi’s doppelganger in KOC yet…
Did anyonr else’s heart sink when Lee Rim held onto Tae Eul’s ID card?!
I saw episode eight.
This drama should have everything I need to make me love it, but I don’t. It’s really frustrating! Rather than complain, I’ll try to analyze and understand why.
I’m going to use a scene I liked, and therefore want to watch again, to explain that even then, I don’t get hooked.
Episode 08.
01:02.45.
The PM Koo wears her iron-woman mask, the assistant comes and delivers the mail. That first step could have been shortened. At this point, the episode has already been drowned in many other spineless scenes with dialogue that doesn’t go straight to the point. So this is the feeling I have at the beginning of the scene.
The dialogue is a pretext to give “naturally” the mysterious envelope with the newspaper.
Here, compared to other isolated and disconnected scenes of the same kind, the situation is slightly less confused. Another scene in the episode shows LL visiting PM Koo’s mother to retrieve his umbrella. Then at 00:45:00, a scene with her mother reading the royal genealogy. We can deduce that the letter was sent by LL. But nothing certain. These ancillary scenes would have benefited from being closer if possible, rather than being broken up. This would have made the understanding immediate. At least the scene at 00:45:00, which uses a procedure insufficiently used in the drama: a short flashback. I know a lot of viewers don’t like flashbacks. And long flashbacks are actually boring. But here, the flashback lasts one second. It’s vital in this story where it’s very difficult to trace the action.
01:03.48.
(and yes, one minute lost, already…)
The PM Koo opens the envelope and sees the newspaper with the article about Trump. It’s visual, Trump is a famous historical character, I had no trouble remembering that the PM Koo had already received this newspaper once before in the drama.
Immediately, the scene benefits from a sublime background music. I hadn’t noticed before if this music had been used before. But here, it’s obvious. The kind of sound I love. A shivering atmosphere, creating a metaphysical unease. The music is going to unfold all over the stage, creating an increasingly overwhelming sensation. I immediately regretted not liking the drama more because this passage is so good.
01:04.10.
The PM Koo compares with the previous envelope. No worries to understand this. However, a major problem appears from the readability point of view. Is it a mail sent in duplicate one day after the other? Or is it really the same envelope? Thanks to the metaphysical background music, I suspected something fishy. It’s the perfect setting for something terrifying and impossible.
01:04.18.
Both envelopes. As I re-watched the scene to analyse it, I have the leisure to do what I shouldn’t need to do as an ordinary spectator, if the drama was well filmed! Freeze frame. Maximum zoom on a very blurred image. I’m trying to read the date of the stamp on the envelope written in light grey, which is difficult to spot.
Yes, the date is the same! Looks like this mysterious case is a link to some kind of time loop, maybe. Everything indicates that it’s the same letter… Thrill! Or not, if you missed that detail…
In a scene like this, you should not hesitate to use a heavy hand. A very sharp close-up, with both stamps with the date. At the same time, a hit clash sound with a simultaneous reinforcement of the background music. A shot not easy to execute for the director, if he wants to both attract the attention of the viewer (it is essential here), but at the same time show that the MP does not give importance to the date of the two stamps. It all depends on the script, whether or not the PM Koo notices this. Might as well do so, to make the scene more disturbing and reinforce her discomfort, but that’s just my personal opinion.
01:04.22.
PM Koo is calling her mom to check it out.
I find that the actress doesn’t really capture the attitude of someone facing a supernatural and icy phenomenon. It lacks close-up, expression in the eyes. The kind of directing that makes a drama thrilling. But since I have to doubt everything here, maybe it’s justified. Either she is not thinking of a temporal story but rather of a mail sent in duplicate (the second one having arrived a day later because of the indolence of the postal workers), or she already has suspicions about some of the mysteries of the drama. Indeed, the PM Koo has a strange reflection: “A repetitive pattern is the universe trying to give you a sign”. It’s a striking line of dialogue. I don’t know why she says that, if you know the reason tell me. For my part, I forgot 3/4 of the drama both because of the live broadcast (I forget easily from one week to another), and because everything is a mess.
For the moment, I assume that the PM Koo is unable to imagine a supernatural story, so the scene is properly shot, although I would have preferred more involvement and close-ups.
01:04.55.
The PM Koo decides to read the newspaper. In the previous episode, she was still very naive in thinking it was a fake-new. If it’s a well-known newspaper, it’s still a bit quick to get rid of the mystery. But never mind. This flippancy will allow, by contrast, to give more relief to the current scene.
Several news about the real world, the Republic of Korea. The music is still good. Let’s shiver not only for the spectator, but also for the PM Koo! Here, the scene makes us understand that the PM Koo is getting seriously worried.
01:05.15.
“What’s going on?”, “What am I supposed to see?”. Very good dialogue to introduce the peak of the scene: the photo of the supporter!
Hit Clash sound !
And also… EPIC FAIL!!!
… Who is on the picture ?
Personally, I didn’t recognize this person. Someone lost in one of the various nebulous scenes of the drama. The completely unrecognizable alter-ego of the PM Koo maybe. Indeed, if it’s her, it’s impossible to recognize her. In that case, the director should have made her recognizable to achieve the desired effect.
This is how much I am struggling to watch this drama. If I have so much grief about a scene I like, you can imagine how I feel about other scenes in the drama that are even more unreadable and lazy in rhythm.
@Pikapika, ‘I’m mindblown by thr stakeout Tae Eul had with Jang Mi. Did Jang Mi kill the suspect on purpose and then act all innocent about it? The scene was creepy! We have not seen Jang Mi’s doppelganger in KOC yet…’
Yes, the scene stopped there and the suspect was next seen at the police station being questioned. So what happened? Another time loop or maybe the guy was holding his breath?
Accdg to the suicide attempt(s) of Lee Ji Hun’s mother, Lee Lim seems to have the power of resurrection. If it’s true, then it’s a power far more greater than what he is aiming for, Ruler of 2 worlds, not just the throne in KOC.
In ep1, the King asks him what he was so willing to kill for and if he wasn’t afraid of the punishment from the skies. He answers:
“I plan to become the very being who gives punishment from the skies.”
I got 2 things from it:
1. The royal family believes in God and His punishment to wrongdoers.
2. Lee Lim is the exception. He doesn’t believe in God but wants to be one.
Why I thought so?
He continues:
“God never created humans. It was the weak who created God. ”
I understand this statement as: humans, when in need, ask help from someone far bigger than they are. Someone reliable and dependable. Someone who has more leverage and with power. As with Lee Lim, he plays god with the desperate and irresolute individuals. He gives hope of a better life for them. Lee Lim knowing the 2 worlds wants to bring to his hands the “balancing” of it. Here in ep8, Lee Gon says only can do it.
This is where my understanding of the manpasikjeok becomes blurry. I don’t think it can only open the portal of the 2 worlds but does it give the owner much greater power than normal?
Lee Gon says only *God can do it.
My take on the suicide attempt was only that she was found and given life-saving care so she could be a lure. She probably knows this and that’s another reason why she wants to die. Lee Lim must be betting that LG will want to contact her. That is why I’m worried about the trip to see her that Tae-Eul proposes for the next day.
@Fern I’m worried about the same thing. I think LL anticipated LG going in search of the lady with his mother’s face in ROK.
The mysterious Luna If she is to be something of the mirror image of Tae Eul, I was thinking about in what ways is she different.
A comparison a point of similar situation. Both Luna and TE had met the Boy, Fate.
Time stamp 12:18 “King Arthur” is a book being read by Fate. King Arthur is also the name that Eun Seob gives Lee Gon.
He sits in the alley behind the bookshop, with books tied in red stringed bundles, stacked behind him. Luna comes to him. We hear her footsteps.
Fate : “You came out pretty quickly and your style has changed.” (Presumably he means that her jacket is new)
(She stretches out her hand. Fate gives her a dog tag and key from around his neck. She keeps them and throws her rabbit jacket to him.)
Luna: “I just grabbed a random jacket I found on the run. It’s getting cold. Put it on or you’ll freeze to death. (She sounds almost like an oracle, predicting what will happen to him with certainty.
Here we can also recall something out of the ordinary about her: for no apparent reason, she had been running at the Royal racetrack, drawing LG’s attention. He had chased her and that had led LG to the bamboo forest and the portal. So might she be the assistant of Fate, or paid by him to lure LG to the portal? We note that LL does not know about her at all. She is an unexpected addition to his plans.
So she is not just your normal crook. The other thing that struck me. At first I was under the impression that she was a petty thief, but LL’s minion says she’s famous and can be hired to find people and steal things. One just had to pay her well. To be famous, she must be successful ie she does not have problems in locating anyone or stealing anything.)
Boy: “Then why do you live in a van? You steal stuff every day, and you’re still broke?” (As in, if it’s cold, why do you live in a van. Don’t you have money to rent a place?)
Luna: “I have a lot of money. But I also have a lot of enemies. It’s a world you don’t need to know about.” (I can afford a place but I have to keep on the move or my enemies will find me.)
(She walks off. Boy examines the rabbit jacket.)
1) Luna knows Fate, the Boy who waits while she comes to him.
TE does not know Fate at all, and he comes to her knocking her from behind. We hear TE’s voiceover speaking about how she should have known what was to happen, or she should have been able to interpret the loss of her ID card, etc… because Fate was at work. This voiceover sounds like it’s knowledge from hindsight. IE something had happened so that she understood how Fate had been intervening in her life.
So although she did not recognise Fate until much later, she would believe in it.
At Time stamp 25:50 “It took me a long time to realize this. When it is fate there are no coincidences. Your fate is determined by the choices you make, but there are times when your fate chooses you.” …” Things that are bound to happen are taking place even at this moment. I was struck with a sad premonition that this will be short-lived, but I decided to love my fate that chose me.” She would come to believe in pre-destination and that Fate chose her.
2) Luna and Fate have a relationship, trust, and understanding. She had merely to hold out her hand and Fate handed her back her stuff. They chatted and exchanged information. They showed concern for each other.
Fate returned to Luna, what belonged to her.
Will Fate do the same for TE? In a scenario where LG is lost. Would it mean that to TE who as LG’s Queen belonged to him and vice versa, Fate would return LGr?
Fate did not speak to TE I believe (anyone can remember?). He squatted in front of her wordlessly, until she told him 3 times that she was fine. He left without a word.
3)In ROK, Fate caused TE to lose her ID Card.
In KOC Fate gives Luna a dog tag (dog tags generally have info/identity engraved on them) and a key (presumably a key to her van). Fate returned Luna’s ID to her and her home/van.
4)Luna says she has a lot of enemies and walks away.
TE gets a call from a friend and stays put to answer the call.
Both of Luna and TE met PM Koo
5)TE pretended to be a fan of PM Koo (her rival)
Luna did not pretend at all and cared nothing for PM Koo.
6)TE refused to give her name and PM remained in the dark about her.
PM thought she knew Luna. Timestamp 2:39 PM said: ” You said you were my fan. Are you pretending we’ve never met because now I know who you are?”
7) TE takes criminals down to as a detective upholding the law.
Luna takes down her fellow criminals out of revenge and to threaten money out of them.
They can both be ruthless.
8) Luna left Fate the stolen jacket to which is attached the identity of the White Rabbit. Luna now no longer races around afraid of being caught, like the White Rabbit who is anxiously late for the Queen’s party. She saunters confidently. However she has no fixed home. No family or friends. No other identity apart from what she does.
TE by going to KOC has taken on the identity not only of Alice (through the Looking Glass), but further, is LG’s Queen. She is about to be stalked and investigated by LL. She has a home, family, friends and her own identity.
– – –
If supernatural characters take human form, then it’s possible that they even take the form of KOC characters who are the parallels of ROK characters.
TE is a very human flat-earther with no affliations to spiritual beings. Quite different from Luna who’s got supernatural connections. However, since seeing the portal and the parallels, TE will have to start believing in Fate.
In her voiceover she suggests that Fate might be intervening to restore balance.
At 1:40 minutes Voiceover: “At least at the moment when I sensed the transcendental power that was trying to restore balance [Boy playing with his red stringed yo-yo is the image shown to viewers, telling us that he is Fate], I should’ve known before we had to face this situation. That it’s something like fate, so to speak.”
LL had gone too far in entangling the 2 universes. Fate now had stepped in, bringing in the persons of TE and Luna, the fated characters to do what they do naturally to restore balance. It is probably also Fate that determined that from 8 years of age, LG would know of TE, while LL remained without that crucial piece of knowledge. TE/Luna was to be the spanner thrown into the works to bring balance to the sky and earth ie the universes.
@Phoenix TE invited LG to go with her to meet the lady with his mother’s face. We wait with bated breath for episode 9 to see if they do indeed meet and if she can tell that he’s the lookalike of her son.
There are people toying with the idea that her son is not dead, but kept from her (without her knowledge?) but show has given us no evidence for his so far.
@GB That’s a bety insightful post. That interaction between Luna snd that boy (or Fate as we are assuming) looked very curious to me too.
What I’m anxious about is that to restore balance, does it mean that only one doppelganger can stay alive? That will be really sad as I like both WDH doppelgangers😔😔😔
*very insightful
@GB What? You mean the alternate version of Lee Gon can be alive too? OMO! I had never thought of that. But didn’t TE see a report on the child LG doppelganger being dead in ROK? Or was that never specifically mentioned?🤔🤔
Heh! @Phoenix,
I believe that TE was shocked at how matter-of-factly Na Ri claims that she’d kill her double, that there is a universal law that there should not be doubles as this leads to chaos. Well we know already that this is true, however we want the solution to be not death but that they return to where they belong.
More than 1 thing can be involved in restoring balance.
1) Things go back to where they belong
2) Portal between the worlds needs to be permanently closed
3) Duplicates who do not return to where they belong, end up dead or forever hidden in that Care Home.
One thing that I didn’t think of is that a SIMILARITY rather than difference between Luna and TE is that both are in the business of seeking and finding people. They might be instrumental in bringing out of the woodwork, the hidden people who are causing chaos in the world, including of course LL and his minions. This might be one of the jobs they do that help bring balance into the universes.
As for Lee Gon/Ji Hun double … it’s only a surmise in some comment somewhere. But if you think about it. There was no evidence that Child Ji Hun’s dead body really belonged to him … we only know that the police came to tell his mother that he had been found.
She goes to visit his ashes often. She seems to believe that he’s dead.
Would it not have been more advantageous for LL to have kept LG’s double to be used later as a puppet king or a spare dead body? Of course that would have meant keeping him for 25 years under lock and key and sedated or something. We know that there’s the Yong Sun Care Home/Centre likely under LL’s patronage. He might be the absentee Director of that Home.
But this is all without any evidence so don’t just believe it. 🙂 We wait and see.
>We know that there’s the Yong Sun Care Home/Centre likely under LL’s patronage. He might be the
>absentee Director of that Home.
@GB – definitely under LL’s patronage cos he even asked his minions to pay its electrical bills. That’s where he sent the pregnant lady who is currently practicing for the switch
Yup @mychoiyoung. But ahh! So the electricity he was paying for was for that place? I saw the pregnant lady of course, but was puzzling about where those bags of money were going.
Also, I was wondering where he was. His quarters looked like a partially revamped storage area: more a place of hiding than a comfortable home.
So now that the Evil Uncle has Ta Eul’s ID, is he the one who saved Lee Gon in the past? He’s a soldat (as the Doctor Lee Jong In said) and he has the same silhouette. It would be funny :p We still don’t have any clues about time travelling.
@Sayaris
I love your idea. The main villain understands his mistakes, and decides to save LG from himself.
He’s the most unpredictable, crushing plot-twist you can imagine. I think I’m gonna hate you, too, if this really happens, because of the spoiler. 🙂
Hi guys,
What do you make of the reference to King Arthur?
Alxmar97> It kinda depends the part of the story of King Arthur. Lee Gon’s sword could be Excalibur, he could reunite knights from 2 worlds to find his graal (the half of the flute) but I’m not sure about the part where he had a son (with with half sister) who becomes his ennemy :p
Ep. 7-8 My Woo Do Hwan was finally able to show off his great acting skills. Loved the scenes of Eun Sup and Jo Yeoung together. WDH really made me feel I was watching 2 different people. Amazing work. Please no killing/deaths! I want both characters to live. I wonder if Jo Yeoung will have to take care of Eun Sup’s younger twin siblings at some point? Speaking of the twins,it looks like not everyone in the 2 worlds has a doppleganger since JY told ES he is an only child, but I think their parents are the same. So ES twin siblings only exist in ROK, no counterparts in KOC. Is there any significance to that? I wonder.
No counterparts that he knows of… 😁 I wonder if he will check with his mother when he returns.
@Table122000
No, no!
Two worlds is one too many!
Balance must be restored!
Only one world must survive!
Highlander time!
CLONE WAR (Tari-taratata, starwars music).
Blood, bloddy hell, blood!
*** Eun Sup will kill Yeoung.***
Okay, I know, Yeoung is much stronger and more capable.
But one important quality shouldn’t be underestimated: Eun Sup is a coward!
He’s going to set a death trap.
Yeoung’s death will be really dirty, disgusting, unfair.
😀
@WEnchanteur, 🤣🤣🤣. dirty, disgusting, unfair. Who do you think will hold him as he dies?
@Fern
I don’t know yet, he would really need a girlfriend, but LG would be what will act as one if necessary.
But one thing’s for sure:
Revenge… REVENGE!!!
Blood, more blood!!!!!
At this point in the drama, it would be nice to hire Mel Gibson.
I think both Na-ri and her double in KoC will fight over Yeong and poor Eun-Sup will be left bereft. Or, maybe that’s a different sort of drama. Mel Gibson in which role?
@Fern
Why ask the question?
All you have to do is place one more unreadable scene.
Bullshit, LL meets Mel Gibson in a bar.
They play darts, LL tells him that since he came there, Mel’s fate is elsewhere.
Gibson answers that he is pregnant.
LL tells him that his baby will be born somewhere else.
Mel Gibson utters a loud cry: Raaahhh.
After that, a lot of scenes with:
Someone, somewhere, doing something.
But we don’t know who, where or what.
Then we find Mel Gibson (unrecognizable, he looks like Charlie Chaplin).
Anyway, it’s definitely him.
Now he starts killing a lot of people.
There’s a lot of blood, a lot of dead people, and it’s cool.
LOL @WEnchanteur It seems L’enchanteur est désenchanté (I used Google translate. I do not know French. I hope it is correct!) Enjoy the disenchantment.
Profitez du désenchantement. Même un grognement cynique peut être amusant.
Enjoy the disenchantment. Even cynical grumbling can be fun. I did that a couple of times over shows that to me were a total waste of time.
Did anyone notice that TE phone case says “back to the future”?
@pkml3 I’m not sure if you want to move or repeat the section on PM Koo to the Character post. However as I wrote it in one ‘flow’ with the question on the words put into her mouth in Ep 8, I post it here.
— — —
Into PM Koo’s mouth, KES has decided to put in words that I find hard to attribute to her.
Ep 8 Timestamp 2:30: Luna to PM Koo: “Take your campaigning elsewhere. I didn’t vote for you.”
PM Koo: “You said you were my fan. Are you pretending we’ve never met because now I know who you are?”
Luna to PM Koo: “Cut the crap. I do not recall meeting you.”
(PM Koo laughs in disbelief) “You’re really something. It was you at the KU Building. The traveller. Do you live in a fairytale?”
Later Timestamp 1:04:51: PM Koo receives in the mail, the same newspaper. “A repeated pattern is the universe trying to give a sign.” (An aside: One should let one’s mum speak and listen carefully. If she’d listened to her mum, she’d have learnt about the weird existence of LL who had not aged).
Why should PM Koo of all people be using words like ‘fairytale’ or ‘universe trying to give a sign”. She has been shown to be several things but this is the first time she is shown to have some kind of faith in the supernatural.
She came from an average, working class background with her mother in the business of selling fish. She got herself prominence as an announcer on TV and then as an anchor woman. Somehow she got herself connected to the KU Group’s family and married the 2nd son, whom she promptly divorced within a year. She got herself elected as PM, the youngest, female PM.
Her cabinet were handpicked by her, but she complains that they are not the young, handsome men, after all. They are also not cooperative with her both on matters of national security and of course when it came to freezing their salaries. They still see her as a ditzy, female upstart, more interested in her looks than in running the country.
She has a mysterious, mostly silent adviser beside her and a male secretary plus female staff and wardrobe/dress staff. The adviser is the one gathering dirt on her associates. Her secretary also planted at least 1 mole in the Palace, but that mole was fired by HCL Noh. Her mole was not out to gather royal state secrets, so much as info on the King’s personal life.
While she does pay a lot of attention to her appearance, and public opinion, and her creature comforts, she does not shirk her responsibilities. She is confident, ambitious, ruthless, greedy even, unafraid of disapproval, tenacious and won’t back down and she knows her stuff. She is very concerned with her public image and plays the media to suit her purposes, with photos of herself and the King in suggestive conversation. (My question here is why LG played along with her!)
She is on good terms with her mother, but does not give the mum that much attention, possibly going home to visit as part of her PR image. She notes that her mother has weird dreams. “You have the weirdest dreams, Mum. Don’t worry. I’d never let anyone take anything away from me.” She does not sound as if she gives much credit to those dreams. She was shocked at seeing a reflection of her doppelganger.
With regards to Koo’s use of the word, ‘fairytale’, Koo seems to have been sarcastically asking Luna if she’s truthfully saying that she never met her before. It seems to Koo to be a lie of such great proportions that it’s unbelievable, like a fairytale. (As in, you expect me to believe that you and I never met, am I the one who imagined it like it was a fairytale or is it you?) Typically, Koo insists it’s Luna who is in the fairytale. This is possibly more accurate than she knows. In my other post, I was casting doubts on the mere human-ness of Luna.
Is Luna (and by association TE) a character in a fairytale (Alice through the Looking Glass sounds about right). We who are playing with the analogies and symbolisms probably say yes. (But what is the point of Koo saying it at all? To help along viewers who are not yet on this page?)
So Koo is not a science-maths person, but even as a liberal arts person, she does not believe in fairytales. Koo is not unlike Tae Eul in this aspect, actually. Koo did ask, “What does she have that I haven’t got?” The answer to that, I guess, is Fate. TE has Fate on her side. So TE is going to win in the chess game.
Hard headed and with her feet planted firmly on the ground, it’s hard to reconcile Koo with the words, “A repeated pattern is the universe trying to give a sign.” These words seemed to have been shoehorned in just so that they get spoken for the viewers to hear. Anyway it worked… they caught my attention and made me ask why she should say them.
They are also the guiding posts to understand what’s really happening: like maybe the universe is calling for help?
@WEnchanteur- Don’t you go messing with my happy & satisfying ending, which is the only reason I’m holding on to this drama because I came for the romance which-Meh. I’m not a huge sci-fi fan or math person, tbh. The balance will be restored by the defeat of the Evil Uncle and they can make the 2 halves of the magic flute one again. Nobody’s dying except the Evil Uncle, especially not my WDH characters.
Yes. I already mentioned that. It’s all in the Red King’s Dream analyses that I’ve blocked and protected with a password because people didn’t RESPECT my WISHES NOT to repost them.
🙂
It is what it is.
I’m on board with you with regards to WDH’s characters @Table122000! He made me laugh in episode 8 and yes, he was able to bring two characters to life. So the only reason he realized that Mi-nari was pretty was because Eunsop was interested in her. But really he noticed that she was pretty already back in KOC. heheheh
LG’s look when he called him ‘Dude and a fool!’. What a crack up! LOL.
@agdr03 @Table122000 I really liked WDH in Ep.7 and 8 – both as JY and ES. Their confrontation scenes were so hilarious. He is really a great actor. I’m with you – I want both of them to survive till the end of the drama🙏🙏
You and me with maths @Phoenix! I’m sure I’m worse! LOL!
Ref Luna.
I was wondering if the PM’s mother was dreaming about her or about her double? The PM said no one takes from her, but Luna stole her bracelet.
I see now why LMH described Luna’s character as venomous. The character description said that she had 3 months to live due to cancer. She truly has nothing to lose except time. I wonder why she’s saving her money.
Also, since Luna’s fingerprints are public knowledge now, due to her being caught, wouldn’t that scupper any chances of Tae-Eul being named empress in a natural course of events, even without the PM arranging it?
That was some good last scenes there with LG, JY and SJ. The fight looked cool. Gushing at WDH’s dead straight face while fighting with SJ.
But SJ called LG, LG instead of King. I thought it was only TE who will call his name. ahhahahah
I was looking at WDH’s face but it served as a contrast to the emotions on SJ’s face, confusion, realisation, anger and even despair.
“But SJ called LG, LG instead of King.” There must be a reason. Could he have been closer to the LG than we think or is it that people know that the King’s name is LG, but they are not permitted to say it. Rather like you address QE2 as Ma’am or Your Majesty, but never as Elizabeth Windsor?
This is so funny! Remember the 5 names TE put in LG’s ROK phone
Originally, it was , TE, Taekwando Dojo or Karate Center, ES, Nari & SJ, right? And LG complained why he had to include SJ?
Lok at how LG changed the entries (right image)
https://mobile.twitter.com/hdiemng/status/1259396630475714560
Like everything revolves around TE! Boy’s a goner for sure!
I love these kind of bits and details from the production/direction.
Wow, thank you for that, @mychoiyoung. Yes, a goner. 😍
The things one misses when not a speaker of the language!
The first third of Episode 8 was indeed above average.
The situations followed more naturally, the story was better told.
It’s not perfect, because there are some obscure disgressions, but overall, it’s one of the rare moments when I was involved in the drama. I even had the false hope that I was finally hanging on!
At the beginning of the episode, there was a good music background. When Luna meets the yo-yo boy too.
The comedy scenes with LG and the two Do Whan were excellent. Unlike the comedy scenes in episode 7, the directing was punchy, and the writing was just as good. It lived up to the type of comedy that KES had in Secret Garden.
The sentimental scene: the scene is good. Above all, it is reinforced by the sublime background music.
Set the beginning of the scene at 00:24:45 to hear how beautiful the piano intro is. You can also feel the atmosphere it gives to the scene. It’s for this kind of moment that I like a drama.
The director then spares a few moments of silence, and then he plays a song. As soon as TE says “I love you”, the singing comes in. All this is perfect except for two details:
– The declaration of love was too abrupt. But someone remarked to me that it fits TE’s personality. It does. However, I found it difficult to catch on emotionally.
– The song is unremarkable, it doesn’t help. I would have preferred a reinforced version of the music that was there at the beginning of the scene, or a sung version of that music.
Then the episode falls back into the usual mess and torpor. All the more disappointing.
When I saw the episode, I had spotted 3 good background musics, so I found the scenes where these musics appear, to confirm and listen again. Hopefully these musics will be on the OST album.
I summarize:
00:00:20 : dramatic music with various effects. I especially like the intro.
00:24:45 : piano music, all perfect.
01:03:50 : mystical music, shivering.
Some questions —
1. Why was Luna released? Initially we thought that she was working with LR but as Epi 8 showed, she has yet to meet LR. So who is working in the background to release her?
2. Did anyone notice that when Luna was being released, there was a man standing in the opposite room where the guard was standing and the latter was talking to him?
Ah Luna! Another mystery to be solved! Hopefully, in the next 2 epis!
Some have theorized that SJ may be LR’s son. That’s why it was important for him to be alive & that’s why LR has been keeping tabs of him.
WILD IDEA: I am bugged by some things. And you know what they say about mysteries, sometimes the answers just stare you at the face. So: Could SJ’s dad be Prince Lee Jong-In?
1. SJ’s dad has never been shown, right? We know of his moms in Corea & Korea. But never the dad, except for pictures when he was young. Please correct me on this.
2. We have not been shown pictures of the Prince when he was younger?
3. All of the Prince’s kids had to be sent away, right? SJ was sent to ROK.
4. The most to benefit, with LG & the late King dead is the Prince. LG did ask him if he hated him because he had to sacrifice being with his family.
5. Why did it take the Prince 25 years before telling LG the truth about the autopsy? As LG reacted, it is not a minor crime. And it enabled LR to develop his nefarious plan.
6. LR needed a care center as part of his plan. The Prince is a doctor. The admin manager said the director is rarely in Korea
7. Is it possible that the Prince is working with LR? The Prince gets the throne and LR gets the flute and all its attendant powers. LR never said he wanted the throne, right? In fact he wanted to be God. Is this what they consider balance? But then again, LR can always betray the Prince in the end.
Just brainstorming on my own, HAHA. Feel free to blast my theory.
Parallel Happenings / Mirror Reflections
I like that this phrase “You reap what you sow,” was repeated. It also works to highlight the little parallels that pop up.
Finger Printing
Ep 2 TE goes through LG’s wallet and finds his cash which she considers Monopoly money. “Did you play Monopoly yesterday? Did you get to buy much land?”
… With an ink pad for finger printing TE says: “You don’t have an ID, you failed to identify yourself, and you’ve been uncooperative with police. You know that, right? I need your cooperation with the fingerprint identification.”
LG: “No one is allowed to touch my body. Even you — ” (I’d like to know what he would have said to finish that sentence …would any Bitches like to give it a shot?)
She literally twists his arm to get his fingerprints. LOL.
Ep 5 23:00 TE stamps her thumbprint on LG’s stamp pad and leaves a red stain on her thumb. He asks her if she bought land and signed for it with thumbprint.
Emptying of Pockets
In the same way that TE had gotten LG to empty his pockets at the police station. So too she had to empty hers at the Palace.
Food Tasting
Repeatedly LG won’t eat food that has not been tasted.
Ep 5 23:45 LG cooks for TE but she says: “You try it first. I’m not joking.” (like she does not trust him!) “I’m Alice in Wonderland right now. She eats weird pills and grows bigger and smaller and stuff. What if I eat this and die from poisoning or natural causes and stuff?”
LG: “Don’t worry. I keep my promises. You’ll die from a beheading.”
The Bread shop scene was cute. LG was overjoyed that people were sampling the breads. He didn’t want the pre-packed bread but the leftover bread from the sampling because people had been tasting them for him already!
Royalty
Ep 2 11:50 LG is in the police holding cell and asking for a chair. Eun Seop comes along and asks if he is the one TE had told him about, Prince Charming?
That’s a nice parallel to TE saying that if his button was a diamond, then she’s Princess Di.
Hanging Up
TE had a habit of hanging up on LG when he called. He only managed to do the same to her once.
However when she called the Palace in Ep 5, they hung up on her 17 times. She got her own back in Ep 7 by demanding that LG did 17 things for her although she could only name about 5 things to begin with.
Talisman
LG had been carrying around a talisman placed in his wallet by HCL Noh, to bring him a wife. In a sense it worked, because he met TE, whom he claimed for his Queen.
For days after meeting TE, LG started carrying with him TE’s 25-year old ID card in his pocket, a new talisman. In Ep 6 he had to give up the ID card to TE. Now he no longer needs a talisman to find a wife, however he needs to know the truth about what’s happening in the universes. In this it is TE herself, who becomes his talisman because her Lee Sang Do case will give them the information they need.
@mychoiyoung Thanks for the link to the Twitter post on the 5 names stored in LG’s phone. So cute! Did you post it on DB or anywhere else as well?
I was thinking about what you asked. “Why was Luna released?” – It seems that even the gangsters who were chasing her were released quite fast. When they met Yeong by chance as they were about to accost TE (thinking that she was Luna), Yeong commented that they were out so fast. So maybe there’s no special reason that she’s out, or maybe as she was on her way to meet the boy, Fate … it was just fate. LOL.
“Did anyone notice that when Luna was being released, there was a man standing in the opposite room …” – I did not notice the man. However it does not look like he is important (yet?).
“Could SJ’s dad be Prince Lee Jong-In?” – From the photos of Lee Jong-in’s family … I saw he had 2 children, both adults with children of their own. They looked to be in their 50s. If Shin Jae is related to his family, and then he cannot be born at the same time as his other children … he might be a grand-nephew or something like that.
However we did see a family portrait, which had in it a man who’s supposed to be his dad. That dad would have been in his 30s as Shin Jae was about 10 years old in that portrait.
So with the portrait, and assuming it is a genuine enough, plus with the fact that royalty are normally tracked, it is unlikely that Shin Jae is related to the royal family, because no one, (HCL Noh, Lee Jong-in, journalists) are concerned about him.
In addition, he has a backstory that shows him as a commoner child who had seen LG doing the official mourning/wailing at his father’s funeral. His mother has a parallel who’s working as Palace staff (they’d do a background check on her) and is not recognised as someone royal. So very likely there’s no link between SJ and Lee Jong-in.
Your other questions on why Lee took so long to tell LG, etc are interesting and questions that I’m also asking. He had suspected or even been convinced all the 25 years, that LR/LL was still alive. But he allowed the cover up to continue.
If he is a good guy, then the only reason I can think of is that he thought it would protect LG more, if LR was not made desperate. However letting a traitor go free to round up more support and power is very irresponsible for someone like Prince Buyeong.
As for the Yang Sun Care Centre, I was thinking that the Director might be LR himself, but you have a point, it could also be Prince B, if he has been in contact with LR all this time. The only thing is, we have no evidence for this.
I do however like your point 7) LR and Buyeong if they are in cahoots, might partition out the throne and the flute’s powers between them. I may be wrong about the other points and 7) may be right!!
So I’m rewatching episode 7 and 8 and I just realized that when LG called TE (while seated a few cms away eating chicken 😂) and told her that he’s always wanted to try a normal thing with her like chat on the phone about the things she did and that he missed her, she just responded with “me too”.
Well, later on episode 8, LG returned the favor by answering “me too” (or ditto) to TE’s confession that she loves him.
Giving and receiving. And that’s why I think it was the perfect answer by LG.
Of course, later on he’s gonna say “I love you” to give back what he received and preserved the duality of the show.
@alxmar97 – good point about the “me too” response!
Very interesting news! The King has added another director to the crew in response to the criticism the drama’s been getting in South Korea, along with the consistent low ratings. So now it’s 3 directors. From the article, looks like the main director is going to be taking over the editing and the new person will be taking over his First Unit position.
http://koalasplayground.com/2020/05/08/the-king-eternal-monarch-adds-new-pd-yoo-je-won-who-directed-dramas-hi-bye-mama-abyss-tomorrow-with-you-and-oh-my-ghost/
Thought people here might be interested since there have been many comments about the directing of the episodes. I guess we will see if the directing improves in the final episodes.
@Table122000
Thank you. Maybe you’ve seen some dramas about the world of drama: “King of drama”, “The world we live in”, “On Air”. It’s instructive about the crazy world of drama production. I guess there was a lot of cold sweats and arguments within the production, if things are like in the mentioned dramas.
I tried to analyse a few scenes, but I would have to look at the drama again to better situate the problems. A new director won’t change the problems related to the script, but I did detect some problems related to the direction. The lack of clarity, the lack of readability, and also the lack of punch that makes some scenes soporific.
I just re-watched episode 3 of “While you were sleeping”. The scenes at the beginning of the episode (first 10 minutes) are incredibly nervous. It’s not just because the story is more hectic than a similar scene in TKEM. The direction is exceptional. Less aesthetic, more in-your-face. It uses common, sometimes crude tricks. Louder background music at the right time. Close-up, stress, crash hit, woosh, perfect sequence of shots. Another reference: a Makjang drama like “The Last Empress”, in which dialogue scenes have more nervousness than action scenes in TKEM.
Watch episode 8 of TKEM, at 01:06:20. It’s one of the successful scenes in terms of impact, and yet less nervous than the example I gave (WYWS). It lacks volume. My favorite part is the sequence of quick flag/logo shots with hits. At the end of the scene, the tension drops too much for a cliffhanger, the percussive music with hits is very low in volume. Listen carefully to the background sound, and imagine what it would sound like if it were louder. There’s a good Bleed Bass at one point (01:10:40), alas almost inaudible, and the same goes for the percussive violin choruses. The characters seem too quiet and speak in mid-low voice. As far as the image is concerned, and having no filmmaking skills, I am unable to say how this could be arranged. I just observe the difference in treatment between the two dramas, and the impact felt. I had found problems on a good scene, with the PM Koo.The background music was too low in volume as well.
Not having reviewed everything, I can’t make any generalizations. I remember scenes with good punch at times. In the first episode, in particular.
So, when I complain that TKEM is not a thrilling and addictive drama, it’s also related to that. The direction has a more aesthetic, more contemplative, situational bias, although successful and well framed. The shots are longer, the background music very discreet. I had noticed that this had severely damaged the drama “My country the new age”, after the first episodes of the drama, which were nevertheless striking. It doesn’t surprise me that TKEM makes me feel exactly the same about the rhythm. I called it “epic but soft”. Yet the director of MCTNA is great, so it’s either a bias or there’s something wrong with the editing. Ditto for TKEM.
@Wenchanteur-The director of My Country The new Age is Kim Jin-Won. I really like him and his work, but yes, I think he has a more contemplative style. I thought MCTNA was well directed, so I’m guessing you seem to favor a certain style of directing for your drama watching.
While You Were Sleeping had 2 directors. Main director was Oh Choong-Hwan. The Junior/second director was Park Soo Jin. I’m not sure how they divided up the work so I’m not sure who is the person that directed the Ep. 3 scene that you like so much, perhaps it all came down to editing? As Main director, OCH would have the dominant influence over the drama as a whole, but who knows? OCH was sole director on Hotel Del Luna (as far as I know), so I’m guessing you would like that drama’s directing.
I’m not that familiar with Yoo Je Won. I did like Oh My Ghost and his directing in Hundred Million Stars From The Sky. For me, the writing got a little bit better in Ep. 7-8, so maybe this new director can help to improve the drama if the script improves as well.
@Table122000 Thank you so, so much for the news about the new director!
I wonder if this is the reason why there was no next episode preview for ep8? Here I thought that I would be suffering through the production issues of the show til the end, but if they can pull in a new director at this point, that means someone acknowledges the problems with it and trying to rectify; I’m all for it. I didn’t realize they still doing primary filming… ahhh.. so happy, there’s still some hope.
@WEnchanteur I noticed you are critical of how scenes are being played out, and I’ve been reading your comments about them, and agree with most of your observations. You were mentioning about the volume being too low or quiet. you notice this because there’s really a markedly lack of any music or ambient sound, especially at the right moments. Many times it feels like they are acting in a soundroom because its so quiet, and that kind of silence has a muted effect on delivery – humor, romance, suspense. There’s also issue of the music done at the wrong time/or not at all, because if done right it will to accentuate the gravity or impact for that scene. Its like telling a joke but missing the right time and method for the punchline. This happened very often, esp in the first 4 episodes of the show, i think that’s why many people had issues and were disappointed with TKEM at the start. It still happens somewhat even in the recent episodes, but not as often. There are other production issues, but sound was, and still is my main gripe.
Generally there is a disjoint in various parts of the production elements of the show vs the script. My usual routine with TK:EM is to watch episodes/scenes at LEAST 3 times to actually understand the base impressions of what a scene is trying to convey. I find this disturbing because viewers should not be expected to have several viewing to understand the basic point of scenes. (Most of the times, I usually end up thinking, what is the point of that segment?) Even the supposedly fluff or romance sections still need dissecting to understand (not talking about any math symbolisms or “onion” type of reveals), the humour is not wholly delivered with the right timing or not properly set up.
I still watch though, because after all that dissecting, I really feel that despite the muddled delivery, there is overall parallel world / time travel/time dissonance plot that is actually worth watching. I’m very, VERY much interested in the script, but frustrated over the delivery. In any case, really glad they seem to be trying to fixing the situation. this is making me even look forward to the next episodes then 🙂
Oh sorry I suddenly just popped up in my earlier comment… new around here and been lurking for a few days, but the news about the new director just made me so excited I just had to make a comment 😛 Just wanted to say: Hello everyone.. I had a lot of fun reading everyone’s comments and getting myself to speed, but if I may have missed anything, feel free to correct. Hopefully my input can be of use to people just as everyone’s was for me. Thank you in advance, and please take care of me! 🙂
Anyway, since this is the ep7-8 thread, wanted to point out a couple of things that got me curious:
(1) ep7 There was a discussion between LL and his (Korean right hand guy), LL was leaving (for Corea) and right hand guy mentioning leaving a lot of money in advance for the electricity bills for a “Director Hwang” of care center. I assume its the care center that Lt JTE visited. In ep8 when same right hand guy visited the Jang Yeon Ji (the girl who murdered her roommate), she was in a “detention center”, and apparently LL’s group can also control the electricity there? this is not the care center right? I wonder what’s this highlight on the electricity?
(2) ep8 wondering why is King LG is renting Nari’s building (what building?) in Korea? (he even gave her that nice golden turtle display to pay for it) Is he planning to bring a lot of people from Corea?
(3) Jang Yeon Ji (the girl who murdered her roommate), this girl’s doppleganger is the same one who was behind PM Koo’s fired spy .. i think back in ep7, is that right? I’m not very good at matching the doppelgängers, so a little confused 😐
(4) Does anyone know the significance of LL’s ring that LJI was shown to be holding. Wasnt that retrieved together with LL’s doppleganger body back then?
I liked it that they are trying to show viewers King LG’s determination as a monarch of his country. He’s quite aggressive and straight to the point when handling the Corean man / restaurant owner, just like how he handled the Japan/Korean naval foray in ep6. There’s an element of risk tasking and brashness in him, and I guess that trait will play later on, when he faces off with LR, for better or worse.
It kind of irks me though that there seems to be a certain complacency with the Corea group (King and Jo Yeung), in that they should have been in full alert since suspecting that LL is alive and have been travelling between worlds for a long time. I would’ve expected his first action would be an immediate return for one of them to Corea to plan and cull out possible spies, to alert and delegate the task to trusted people….. and not hanging out drinking with the girlfriend lolz. That said, I feel the plot is moving forward too fast. That doesn’t bode very well with the King, since he hasn’t even alerted anybody aside from Lt JTE and JY about LL, and here is LL, already amassed his army in what seems to be every corner of Corea and Korea (too bad King couldn’t try that dish… budaejjigae? Had a taste of that before, Its weird but interesting lol I guess maybe he’s not fated to try it, he’s been talking about that dish for a while now)
But, oh, I liked the ep8 ending. Finally the plot’s moving along on the King’s side, with SJ also realising and starting to believe in the existence of parallel world Corea. I feel the antagonists have way of a head start in recruiting members, and it’s about time the King’s side get some reinforcements to even the field. Just hope its not too late.
ps. Thanks @mychoiyoung for the link for the 5 names in King LG’s phone, couldn’t read Korean, been wondering which 5 it was… its really hilarious how the King edited the names afterward 🙂
@Table122000
Are you reading my Mind like Park Seo Ha ?
At first I thought it was just the editing. My first thought was that by putting the main director in the editing, it could fix everything.
Before I said that, I reviewed the scenes from WYWS… at the last moment… ^^
No, it’s not just the editing. There are a lot of shots that depend directly on the shooting. If these shots hadn’t been filmed, it would have been impossible to fix things in the editing. For example: the sequence of shots when the man breaks the window of the apartment with the metronome, the final shot with the metronome next to the corpse (the blur disappears in the foreground). 04:00 to 05:00 approximately. Without analyzing, just look and compare. Everything is so much stronger here.
For sure, I cling more easily to what is striking than contemplative. However, I do sometimes like contemplative films, like “The Silent Warrior”. That’s part of the deal. Even in a drama, I can like that, in “Sandglass” for example, whose rhythm is slow, and most of the scenes yet exciting and moving.
A scene like this one, 26:38 to 30:07.
https://www2.dramacool.movie/sandglass-1995-episode-1.html
So it’s not the contemplative side that bothers me, but rather when instead of being contemplative and interesting, it becomes soporific. What I blame MCTNA for: the endless sequence of discussion scenes with static characters talking in low voices, long shots for nothing, and weak music based on slow violin sheets. It’s not even contemplative!
@Tomato101
The funny thing is that I often didn’t like scenes in hundreds of films because there was music in the background! Especially in films with a realistic/documentary side, where it’s more interesting to have a direct atmosphere, with the natureal sound effects in front. It’s a question of the style of story and when to put music, and at what volume. If you know Stanley Kubrick’s film “2001 Space Odyssey”, there is a scene where the cosmonaut has his cable cut. Just before, we could hear his breath in the headphones, just after, he is ejected into space and the director suppresses all sound. Here, the striking effect is achieved by suppressing all music or background noise. When you see this, you jump out of your chair and shout “Waaaah, this is so great!!!”.
You’re right to watch the episodes again. I made the decision to re-watch the episodes too, to make up for the weekly broadcast. I should have done it from the beginning. I apologize! Now, to criticize something, I have to stitch bits of scenes here and there. There are a lot of areas of the drama that I am unable to comment on, because I would certainly say something stupid. However, the impression felt is very important to take into consideration, and is indicative of what hasn’t been dissected. After all, this is how the majority of the audience looks at the drama. The target of a drama is the ordinary spectator, not people who are interested in every detail, as here.
Little by little, I am more and more interested in drama, I also detect very good things in some places. Although this is not the way I want to enjoy drama. I analyze more the dramas I like, but always after having first seen them as a simple spectator, without trying to decipher everything (of course, I decipher a lot of things in spite of myself, and I tend to notice at once some qualities or defects of the direction, but I miss some too). So my motivation comes first of all from the fact that I liked the drama that way, not the other way around. If this approach fails, it’s because there’s a problem somewhere, even if at first glance I’m unable to say precisely what. It’s tempting to criticize harshly in anger, but it’s also risky, by misjudging the exact source of the discontent.