The thread is now open for your spoilers, rants, comments, analyses, observations, and theories.
Let’s enjoy the show.
lol.
Secret of the Universe #63: Never underestimate the elegance of correct diction and the power of a hairstylist to transform a man.
LOL! This has to be my favourite GIF. Loved his expressions and TE’s. Utter disbelief, utter chagrin, utter confusion. LOL
I laughed too when the other three unanimously, unambiguously decided he was the weakest link in that group of four. SinJae would have been a good addition, too. Ugh. I should have written his character profile but ran out of time.
WDH is really good at acting Yeong, ES, ES acting as Yeong, Yeong acting as ES. He can switch so easily.
I just want to get this out of the way: Did they physically meet at the end? That wasn’t some metaphorical/symbolism for LG realizing what LR looks like right? I cant wait for the next episode. To be honest this series is moving so slow at times, and yet so fast in others. Still several episodes til the end of the series and yet the meeting between them is already here. It makes me wonder how much more story is still untold. I love it!
Lol I’m sorry I just lol-ed at the kimchi in-show advertisement, it was so unexpected and blatant, but I just swallowed it whole and continued watching and enjoying the show afterwards 😛
I’ve been wondering about Lee Min Ho’s suitability in this lead role since the series started, (this is the first time I’m seeing him act) but this episode gave me a big glimmer of hope that he might not entirely be wrong person for this. I liked his two scenes (phone and new year ) with LR a lot, the director did well and so did the actor. The intensity was very well done, there was a mix of drama and raw-ness in those scenes that flowed quite well. Looking forward to this now.
Ah, and I griped much about production in the past episodes. Happy with this one, its not entirely without faults, but I could sit through it without having to wonder “whats the point of this scene” every 5 minutes. This episode’s flow is much better, except the thread on PM Koo… its still not clicking for.. I suppose its a developing thread, but it seems that the production is not very good at handling developing events.
I guess there will be some discussion also on the 2022 clip soon. That was quite odd that that clip came up (w fate and all) right in King LG’s face.
Oh and I am now a fan of WDH. Wow. He’s not bad at all, in between those switches between JY and ES and the halfway in betweeen when ES was acting as JY. Hahahha… and the laptop password was funny.
Probably drop comments again after a second viewing, but wow, happy with ep9. good job production team. Cant wait for the next episode.
His characters are by far my favorite ones on the show, and I love how Yeong has realized (or maybe he knew all along) that he liked SA by interacting with Ni Ra as ES. His change from one role to the other are hilarious and charming.
It would appear that the change in director has paid off. This episode is better-paced and the simmering performance of LMH is definitely the top draw.
Here are the things in this epi that left a huge impression on me: In no particular order
1. When TE hugged LG by the river bank (with that ubiquitous bbq chicken!). It was so natural and heartfelt.
2. The yo-yo boy looking at LG. Heck I had goosebumps and for a while got creepy scared!
3. Phone call between LG & LR.
4. When LG nonchalantly said no to PM and informed her that he has proposed to someone already GUFFAW!
5. After watching the exchange between LG & PM, ES exclaimed “WOW! This world is very aggressive!”
6. When LG screamed LEE-LIM!
Now to watch it again (wink, wink)
Now I have to go back to what I mentioned before about JY and why the producers said that LG will be disappointed with him…
JY had all these information on his laptop. Why hide them from LG?
I cannot believe that he did not know LR’s face. In other forums the reply I got was that JY may be too young to remember the face of LR that’s why he may have missed the picture of LR in the race track. He is the King’s premiere guard. He grew up in the Palace. He knows the royal family.
Loving the grown-up people’s romance. In the first scene LG said to JTE that she doesn’t have wit but the very next moment laughs at what she says. I guess this subtle and not ‘in your face’ relationship is not everyone’s cup of tea hence I can understand why some people have a gripe with the couple.
Also I was re-watching older episodes while waiting for ep 9. There’s something I noticed which I haven’t come across here or on dramabeans discussions.
In ep1 during the king’s assassination and treason scene there are 2 masked people who come in. Here are my thoughts on that scene.
7:31 – We’re shown a close up of young LG’s bloodied feet
9:28 – 9:35 – A masked man steps on blood on the floor and walks besides the young LG’s foot marks made of blood. This man’s feet are clearly visible here.
9:38 This person picks up a gun from a dead bodyguard. Then he walks into where LL and young LG are. He shoots at the ceiling and then some of the traitors.
11:59 – 12:02 This person breaks the glass of an alcove and hides there.
12:08 – Person with gun appears again.
12:22 – 12:27 – We’re shown this person’s feet again. But the shoes are different this time. They’re not the same as shown in the previous shot of the gunman’s feet. The music here also changes and becomes softer.
I never try theorizing in mystery dramas because I’m too lazy to think ahead 😛 I’d rather let the show do the showing. But I’ll hazard a guess this time because now that I’ve seen what I saw I can’t unsee it.
So assuming the 2 different shoes are deliberate what I have to say is LG came first, shot the traitors and the ceiling to avoid getting young LG killed by LL. Then he hid in the alcove. Then comes 2nd person with gun at 12:08 who is JTE. Yes I think its JTE because first, shoes shown at 12:22 – 12:27 are the canvas type JTE is shown wearing in the show. Second, at 12:33 is a side silhouette of the shooter and its not flat chested. There’s a visible protruding bust.
But and it’s a big BUT, the hands checking for pulse of young LG are a man’s hand. This is where what I think about JTE being there doesn’t seem correct.
Did I see wrong? Were the different shoes just a continuity mistake? Can somebody please explain and put me out of this misery?
@Sayaris – My favorite part from 8 was Yeong acting like ES after the fight scene and ES says “What a nutjob.” lol
@mychoiyoung
“the producers said that LG will be disappointed with him”
I never read this in the production materials. What is your source?
Getting ready for a visit to sister but I’m excited for this episode.
WDH is ❤️❤️❤️!
Episode 9
Lady Noh the Oracle.
LG – Why do you keep telling me to go? Why aren’t you asking me anything? I was going to tell you everything if you asked me where I was.
Lady Noh – Hmm. I already know. I know where you’re going. You’re chasing your destiny, aren’t you? This is a secret between you and me, right?
LG – Nods.
Nari does have a thing for ES
Nari – Okay, But Tae-eul, isn’t Eun-sup acting strange these days?
JY – Awkward smile
JTE – Eun-sup? Why? I didn’t notice anything weird.
Nari – It feels like he’s not as handsome as before. He looks a bit lame. What’s up with his hair?
JTE – You really have a strange taste.
JTE to JY – Let’s meet at the hotel from now on. Na-ri and Eun-sup are going to fall apart at this rate.
Science and Science Discuss Fate
Prince Lee – Have you found any answers yet?
LG – I found a symbol, but I’m having trouble with it because the solution isn’t good.
Prince Lee – I’m sure you will be able to solve it. You’ve always done so.
LG – Uncle, do you believe in fate?
Prince Lee – Laughs. It’s a hard concept for a math and science person.
LG – It’s not something clear. People usually tell fate to move aside and challenge it. Should I fight against it?
Prince Lee – You can never know what will happen in life. But if there is a place you want to reach even if your life may be at risk, that is fate. The footsteps you take by risking your whole life is what’s fate. Is there a place you want to reach?
LG – Yes. There is.
Prince Lee – Then you just have to go there. You don’t need to fight. I hope there is a beautiful lady there. You should really get married this year.
LG – If I find the solution, I will visit you again with a woman who argues that the earth is flat.
Prince Lee – All right. I will be waiting, your Majesty.
Land between 1 and 0:
1. LG and ES passed through it to get to KOC. ES brought the red balloon out.
2. LL is slowing the time there accdg to LG as LL’s goal is to live eternally.
My thoughts on the previous assumption about the doppelganger mother of LG being a bait to get LG to come to LL has been cleared in the beginning of ep9. I have thought about it before that bait might not be the case why LL is keeping her.
LG’s mother died when he was young, there is no strong bond/attachment between the 2. So it doesn’t make sense that LG will go out of his way just to see the face of his mother’s doppelganger.
All in all, episode 9 was good. But if you take a closer look:
– The main plot hasn’t progressed much. It’s like the drama’s lazily heading into season two.
– The two plot twists at the end of the episode are missed. The staging and sound effects indicate that there is a big twist plot.
Unfortunately… EPIC FAIL!
– Scene from the 2022 video. Very little context, except that it’s Yeong’s computer (if we remember, two scenes earlier… Not clever to have separated this scene from its initial environment. It’s so fun to cut it all out?). Instead of savouring this new mystery, I spent my time painfully trying to understand the context. Where did these videos come from? Where were they shot? Who shot them? Only one visual detail helps: date of 12/11/2019. LG’s voice over lyrics are nebulous. Word Compote !
– Cliffhanger. Same thing. There’s a mystery. But before I wonder about the mystery, or just enjoy the mystery with excitement, I’d like to know what’s the mystery about, why it’s a mystery?! LG voice-over totally nebulous and meaningless: “He’s delaying time inside that place.” This sentence, however important, doesn’t mean anything. NOTHING! Or everything! EVERYTHING and anything! “delaying time”. It can be one thing and its opposite. And what place is he talking about? That’s bullshit. Biggest word salad guinness record.
Once again, when everything was going well, even very well. I’ve never had so much fun watching an episode of TKEM, I’m finally terribly frustrated. I feel like throwing my computer screen out the window. ARRGHHHHH!!!!!!!!
@WEnchanteur hello! My thoughts exactly on how the progress of the story telling is going. It’s already ep10 tonight but they are still laying the foundation of the story. It feels like they are going for a 2nd season but I don’t think they’d be dragging this kind of story.
@WEnchanteur, from my readings of the drama so far (cos I can’t continue watching after ep 4😅) could that place be inside the portal? 😊
The yoyo kid, i mean u alredy mention it. But still give me goosebomb
About lady noh, yeah u right. She’s seem the planner. She never ask leegon and she know everything. I mean how?
@Miracle23
In this case, simply insert a short flashback.
But even this does not prevent the lack of meaning of the phrase “slow down time in this place”.
Just when LG says this:
(small flash of light)
short scene excerpt from the 4th dimension
(small flash of light)
The kind of thing that should have been done dozens of times during the drama. In fact, entire sub-situations should have been compiled into flashbacks, rather than parasitize entire episodes.
5 minutes of a painful scene -> 15 seconds of flashback, at the moment when the character is useful in the main story.
Because there is no point in showing isolated scenes that are immediately forgotten, with minor characters also forgotten. All this while being as less precise as possible about the context.
My feeling about the drama:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CANkFvbn3Bh/?igshid=ued08lb45uiv
Just gotta add in the last scene for preview? My heart bled for Lady Maximus. She brought LG to the lady. Literally carried him there! And then to have to witness him hug another woman? And pretend it was nothing? 😭 No wonder he/she snuck a kiss in during one of the earlier scenes. Hopefully P.D. would put it in deleted scenes or the blooper reel for posterity’s sake.
I think this is a time-loop+back to the future story.
In Ep.1, the Rabbit whom LG was chasing is actually TE from the future.
Both TE and LG are trapped in time-loop.
In the CCTV video of 27 May 2022, thr boy Fate is wearing Luna’s necklace/van key and dog tags. Did that video creep anyone else out? it was like watching a horror movie. How the heck did Jo Yeong have it in his laptop? Btw Jo Yeong’s laptop had cutesy photos stuck on…which didn’t seem very in synch with his straight laced character.
It is also nice to see that Eun Sup is actually pretty street smart…like inlocking the laptop
@WEnchanteur, I went over to check on the ending scene and saw what you meant. For me the end scene became anti-climatic. It should just end when LG shouted LL’s name, called him traitor and camera panned to LL’s face. More impactful as LG’s voice did what was needed for that scene. It should just stopped there. Then the cliffhanger would have worked better to get me tuning in for next ep. Unfortunately, the slo-mo, dragging shots that came afterwards reduced this effect. That is what I personally feel. I find LL in that last moment much more charismatic. Sorry if I analyse too much where it doesn’t matter. 🙂
@miracle23
I’m re-watching the scene and I said a HUGE stupidity.
There is indeed a flashback scene with the 4th dimension.
AHHHHHHH.
Poor me.
I’m pathetic, what a humiliation. T T
I was certainly focused on the subtitles at that moment and I didn’t see anything… ^^
Yeh………………. 😀
The fact remains that the phrase “delaying time” is very bad.
But what one understands afterwards is that LL does not age because he spends most of his time in the 4th dimension.
At least, I suppose so.
So that means that he lived, for example, 22 years in there, and only 2 years in a normal world.
Which is pretty dumb, though.
He must get bored stiff in there…
And how does he find and discipline his little soldiers, if he spends most of his time elsewhere?!!
The cliffhanger.
It starts well with LL walking in slow motion, farting his ass off at max.
On the other hand, it’s quite strange that he walks next to the horse and LG doesn’t see anything.
Another weird and confusing thing.
Then at the end…
For a confrontation, this is severely lacking potato.
Lee Min Ho gets pissed off (well, what looks like pissing off to him…)
LL doesn’t seem to care at all.
Nervous tension matter, it’s at 11…Yet there’s everything there is to it, including the grandiloquent music.
Hi @wenchanteur
Are you considering the fact that a day in that space could literally mean a year outside, thus LR might not have the time to be bored. He just needs to keep going in for a day and then out to monitor people?
For me the let down was: two surprises back to back. LG saying this is not possible first with 2022 video and then within minutes at LR’s video. Also, couldn’t he have first reacted by suddenly standing up to the LR being young and then thinking out aloud JTE’s dialogue? It would have had a better punch. Think JTE’s dialogue prepares me so him being surprised by it, makes me think why? He has a logic so why be surprised!
Agreed with — they should have ended it at the call for war Leee Rimm in that angry voice, screen dividing into half profiles of both the the black and the white (that was a nice shot!), logo of the series end episode 9.
Fan directs in a dream 😀
@No one
Ah! Yes!
Having reviewed episode 5, I had noticed that LG said that one minute in the 4th dimension was one hour in the world.
I thought about it, but then I completely forgot in the meantime.
Uncle doesn’t have time to get bored when he goes there, so.
Maybe he’s the one having fun sowing red balloons?!
😀
The split screen at the end : the two actors have their faces cut in two.
I should have mentioned it, but you do it, thanks…
Two centimeters further apart, all you could see were their ears. ^^
They’ve sent some big style on that end picture.
I re-watched the scene of 2022. The idea is good and the scene striking.
However, initial confusion: it takes a little time to understand that he’s watching secret videos taken by Yeong, the day she visited the world of LG.
The dialogues are unclear. I dropped my auto translation, and went to see the English subtitle file. There, I found that it had been mistranslated…
I couldn’t understand why LG wasn’t wondering if there wasn’t a date error on the video. In fact, he does, roughly.
If we stay logical, it means that the person who filmed it travelled through time. If Yeong filmed this.
Or maybe it’s some weird other phenomenon.
When the yo-yo boy looks at LG, it really looks like LG he’s watching, not just the camera.
By the way, there’s a thunderstorm / and lightning near the bookstore at this time. Immediately afterwards, a lightning at LG. That’s pretty great!
It’s frustrating, I would have liked to better appreciate this scene the first time I saw it…
@Emmjay there are people who noticed the shoe differences. I don’t think the shoes are a discontinuity… there could be a slim, slim possibility, but having 2 close up scenes that clearly show the shoes of the masked people (alternative camera shooting or angles could’ve shown the masked ppl’s imposing back/length of stride with the legs/ clenching hands holding the gun, or some other body part – and maybe superimpose the sound of walking feet or other cues, for suspense – instead of intentionally showing the shoes/feet. They also made it a point at the start to show child LG’s bloodied feet, as if to say, “feet(s) are interesting. See how it conveys the state of this person in barefoot covered in blood?” so at the minimum, I don’t think you have to worry about discontinuity. As for your last question “ Can somebody please explain and put me out of this misery?” can’t help you there, I still haven’t decided what happened, and everyone’s got theories 🙂 that’s part of the fun.
Also agree with your comment on how the relationship is portrayed, it’s still somewhat fluffy but in a low key, more mature way. I actually prefer this more… but maybe it’s not a lot of people’s cup of tea (or it’s not the cup of tea of viewers who are more vocal about their opinions :))
@WEchanteur May I say I really appreciate the way you clarify why the production could’ve been better in handling the scenes. Have the same sentiments but you verbalise it much better. maybe my standards have been lowered so much, but I was still happier with ep9, despite the existing faults. They’re not as glaring though, they got some things right… the issues really is less than before. (Generally I don’t have to wonder what exactly is happening/purpose of scenes)
@juliette As for the progress of the main storyline,…. agree, there is only 7 episodes left and they are still dropping new threads here and there 🙂 so far the overall plot looks good so I’m just leaving it to faith that somehow it’s supposed to be this kind of pace and will eventually be able to tie ends. trying to keep a positive outlook … production teams couldn’t have diverged that much from the script, and script wise, the plot seems well thought out. So crossing fingers here 🙂
Thanks for everyone’s comments, enjoying everyone’s observations!
I was confused about the timings of the last scenes and shall have to watch again. I was wondering if it were Luna in the 2022 video. The saunter was perhaps more like her and she would have had time to grow her hair out to be more like Tae-Eul’s. I know that she should be dead of cancer by then, but maybe the 3 month survival expectancy is without treatment. Health care is a right, according to LG, so perhaps a special treatment outside of the remit of their system, or she never went to hospital to ensure her anonymity. It seemed like Fate was trying to send LG a message.
The bookshop must exist because Prince Buyeong went there, but perhaps the name changed. Why does he think he knows the bookstore owner? He was abroad at the time of the assassination.
I’m thinking that JY, like the PM’s mother, noticed the resemblance between LL in the photo, but like anyone else, wouldn’t have actually recognised LL because he was supposed to be 70yo. I believe that he is more negligent rather than complicit.
@Fern- I believe the Bookstore owner used to be the Captain of the Royal Guards. This is why LG Father was so shocked by the sight of him holding a gun on him in Ep. 1. So, Prince B would have known him since he protected the royal family members, including the King. He would have seen him guarding the King and also Evil Uncle. The owner may have even protected him at times. This is why it was so easy for the traitors to shoot everyone in Ep. 1- the guards wouldn’t think their boss is a traitor.
Thanks to a friend for looking into the numbers.
May 27,1990 is TE’s birthday.
May 27,2020 is when she’s at the bookstore in COR.
I must say though, ep10 for me is a mess. Every ep drops a bomb. By the time ep16 comes, that’s when we most probably know the whole story.
Just finished Epi 10. I NEED A MOMENT.
think will walk through frozen moments in time for a while…
After watching Ep 9…
Meta
When TE said to LG that “This is a cooperative investigation that only we can do.” It reminded me again of Signal, where past and present police cooperated in time. However here it is another meta for this show where TE and LG will cooperate across universes.
I was laughing when ES assured LG that he was skilled in dealing with prolbems in the Public Service Center … because that’s where LMH in RL worked when he was in the army.
A Mirror Crack? / Chess
Both LL and TE mention the word ‘crack’. When LL re-enters ROK he gets a report that mentions Kang Shin Jae and Jeong Tae Eul, and says there is a crack. Later TE in voiceover says “Keep shaking (I presume she means shake the other party) while you’re being shaken. Make a crack to regain balance.” A mirror can be cracked. As LL spoke we see a flashback of the flute being cut by the sword – a sign that the flute is the mirror.)
I mentioned in another post that by bringing Shin Jae to ROK, LG had shot himself in the foot. Now he says that KSJ is a wrong move he made. And JTE is a move he did not make. So again we are given the metaphor of chess moves.
Bookstore
The Haesung bookstore is in KOC but cannot be located by LG’s Vice Captain of the Guards. I thought at first, that there is another bookstore in ROK. Maybe there will be one there in 2022. Interestingly P Buyeong wanders into that shop where he is recognised. He finds the owner familiar, maybe a palace retainer of old. More interestingly, TE or Luna walks past the store. I’m inclined to think it’s TE because Luna would have spoken to the boy, Fate. Which means TE would be in KOC in 2022 (or there would be a bookstore in ROK with Fate outside it).
Video
Might it have been Fate who inserted that video dated 27 May 2022 to draw LG’s attention to the possibility of moving forward as well as backward in time? Also, it gave assurance that TE is alive and well in 2022.
That video was supernatural, since it played the part where Fate looked directly at the camera/LG only once and brought on into LG’s real time, the lightning (and thunder/) plus the (shooting fiery roots) pain in his shoulder.
Just like the ID Card of 25 years ago, that video should not exist in LG’s current present.
Sword
The scene of the Child LG with the sword – the words on it reminded me that it is the sword rather than the flute that is associated with lightning. I can’t see the link now, but I thought I’d just put it here. Also it is the sword that can cause a crack in the mirror, just as it cut the flute in two.
I like that the show juxtaposed a moment when Child LG could not sincerely say he could fulfill the duties of a King, with the Adult LG telling LL that he was going to defeat evil and make things right.
Fate and Destiny
The conversation with Prince Buyeong about fate is interesting.
LG seems to be asking if it is fate that he does not like, should he fight it. People generally tell it to move aside and challenge it. (I note here that people like PM Koo are out to make their own fate or rather their own destiny.)
Prince Buyeong’s answer seems to say, that if you are prepared to risk all for something you want, then that becomes your fate. Ie choose what you want. Make your own destiny.
Aside: PM Koo’s conversation with her ex-husband Chairman Choe, she mis-uses the word emotion. She says greed and ambition are sincere emotions. Greed is a deadly sin LOL not an emotion. (I know KES is not thinking in terms of sins, but still calling it an emotion is misleading and makes it sound like she’s justified if she’s honest about how she feels. Fallacy.)
Symbols crop up as a motif this episode. LG said to TE his mother’s face was just a symbol, and he was not upset that they could not locate the woman with her face. This is in line with what he told Yeong a few episodes ago that the plus sign, like the dead body of ‘LL’ was a symbol but in itself is not really LL.
LG also tells P Buyeong “I found a symbol but I’m having trouble with it because the solution isn’t good.” (If the solution at the moment was to remain separated from TE to investigate in their own worlds, then the symbol he refers to is the murder and replacement of persons). When the house of Song Jeong Hye did not exist, it was a sign that “Song Jeong Hye is with Lee Lim”.
So what was the supernatural video a sign of? That there was a fated future to work towards, in which TE existed in KOC in 2022, and a shop that should exist to link LG with it.
Ep 10
Ending scene
LG: hey, have you been well?
TE: nodding, it took you a while this time.
LG: because i had to come from far away, i realized i have never even gave you a single flower thats why i crossed the universe for you.
Tae Eul takes a step towards Lee gon and then suddenly stops. ( this is the point she realizes something amiss ) that this Lee Gon who visited here is not the Lee Gon from the current time line. He is the Lee Gon from the future timeline. The Lee gon take the steps towards her. Handed her the flower and says his goodbye.
LG: but the thing is, i have to go back now.
TE: you have to go back?
LG: Right. I also realized i never told you this. I love you. I am deeply in love with you.
Lee Gon kisses Tae Eul and then his gone…
LG: voice over ( there will come a moment when it seems I’ve disappeared. I don’t want you to worry too much when that happens. It just means I’m walking through the frozen moments in time.
Something must have happened to Lee Gon and he got stuck in the limbo (the land of no where) just like in the movie the time travelers wife he is traveling through the times and is only revisiting Tae Eul through that and then he will suddenly disappear. Or something must have happened to Tae Eul in the future and now he is reliving the times and travels through it when she is still alive.
Is anyone out there to talk about the ep10 ending now? Because the show finally did an episode ending right (at least the major part of it) and for once, I just want to have someone to rationalize and say, “its fine, this will have a happy ending.”
=.=’
Excuse me while I go finish my sourdough dough and knead/punch it down. *sigh*
Sorry also for not putting more info on the episode…, after seeing ending, not in the mood for a recap atm, but it also seems people here don’t watch the episodes as quickly, so I also don’t want to spoil it for people early. (although its mentioned in the description that spoilers are ok in this thread)
… I guess if the show (at least the ending) is elliciting this type of response from me, its now at least doing its job.
@Phoenix88 Ugh, thank you for existing 🙂 I hate those flowers. Knew that something like this will come up when they put those seeds into the script. The preview of the next episode is worrying too.
Is the 2022 video going to be at least a consolation for a possible happy ending? I feel that’s a little tidbit to say everything is going to be alright.
@Tomato101 I’m here 🙋 I saw it.
The ending of episode 10 is giving me a sleepless night. LG from the future came to JTE full of regret and sadness. I hope he didn’t really disappear on her. I hope the director just cut the scene cruelly but stuff actually went on, like that 2G phone call between LR and LG.
In the preview, is it JTE or is it Luna? How could JTE be in KOC without LG?
@Pikapika I think it should be JTE from the hairstyle. Don’t mind me though. I do not claim to understand this drama. From @Fern note of the ending scene, and the preview it seems he was indeed from the future and he was crying while kissing her? Then clearly nothing good happened to her 🙊🙊🙊
@Arihsi Thank you! That was a very depressing episode ending >.< Glad to know someone's seen it too.
LG told JTE in a previous episode he will tell her when he finds out the edge of the "in between 0-1" place. Since the script put it there, I hope that will happen, cause that means he's mapped everything there and can (hopefully) figure out the solution to the problem. I'm not sure… but I feel like I'm grasping straws 🙂
I'm calming down now, and I am wondering how LG decided where LR is going to pop up when he came back to KOR that ended with that New Year confrontation. Did I miss something there, or was the information not relayed yet? Apparently from what we've seen, the show's scene cuts jump back and forth in between/within episodes, and chronology of what is transpiring. I feel its an attempt to make parallels with what LG is attempting – it doesnt exactly make for easy viewing. In any case, I am not certain if I missed the tidbit on
@Tomato101
Yeah, episode 9 is good.
You see how things miraculously work out when there are finally identifiable storylines with regular follow-up? Just do that during the whole episode and it’s done!
And on top of that, good comedy scenes.
As you can see, I was wrong on the two key plot twist scenes.
– On the one hand, I should calm down first, and rewatch the episode before posting.
– But on the other hand, I also trust my intuition. If the first time the scene is watched, there is something wobbly, there is a reason behind it. It’s not normal for me to feel that way, whereas other equally mysterious and complicated dramas have not made me feel confused.
@Tomato101, LG told JTE that he came from another universe at the ending scene, even further than another world. JTE probably realised that something was “off” about him, that’s why she didn’t take another step towards him, and he had to take a step towards her.
Agree with you that the chronology is messing with our heads in the episodes. It is on purpose, perhaps. This reminds me of the book the Time Traveller’s Wife, where the time traveller loses a sense of time/reality through constant jumping around in time.
I hope LG can finally find LR’s portal soon.
Correct me if I’m wrong (drained enough to rewatch ep1 for confirmation ) but LG’s coat during the last scene with Tae Eul is what he’s wearing on ep1.
Ep1: LG in the bamboo forest, riding on Maximus, with the Four Tiger Sword. And what must be a royal uniform.
When LG was about to fight Japan, he said to TE about the royal family wearing its uniform for a battle they are going to win.
@Tomato101
I saw it and am thinking of watching it again 😀
I am so glad that the drama finally did what I had been waiting for — dramatic moves.
Somehow I do not find myself confused with the time jumps. I thought when LG is startled on realizing that LR is young, he realizes he has time so he goes into the portal to check other gates+lay of the land. Then he quickly goes to see JTE or rather call her and then hurries back, so much so that he doesnt know the time/day.
Interesting and sad part: he orders his uncle to remain safe anf requests him to stay at the palace while he is again planning to go check the place between 0 and 1… now he is bound by duty. I wish someone ends up helping him.
I do not know why she takes half a step back. I also want to understand the poetry that Lady Noh reads.
Oh and i want to know the significance of the flowers…
I dont care whether the end is happy or sad, i want a beautiful story or to borrow the concept from LG/ @packmule3 a beautiful solution.
Having said that a lot of people who like getting into the script-writer’s style say that this one bound to have a happy end. Then think of it … hitchhock often said do the unexpected. The writer has given so many hints and prenominations of sadness that being contrary would be the right and cheeky thing to do… a sad end would be too predictable.
Oh and the preview could be a dream sequence… it is a wonderland afterall.
@No one
I’m also rewatching it again to pick up any I’ve missed.
The flowers… well they did discuss that time passes by slowly inside the portal, wind and sun doesn’t come in. Before he arrived JTE was talking to the plant in the pot she planted in ROK, which hasnt even sprouted at all, so apparently it takes some time in the real world to sprout. Next scene he arrives with FLOWERS in his hand. It seems to be implied that he may have picked the flowers from the seeds that was originally spread in the portal… and if it takes sometime for the same seed to grow in a parallel world like ROK, then imagine how long it took for those flowers in his hand to grow. Implying that’s apparently how long he’s been going around…. =.=’
Also, in the ending scene, Lt JTE takes a step back because she realizes the LG in front of her is not the one she has met the past couple of times… that he is likely a “different” LG. He wasnt’ crossing worlds to meet her, he said he crossed “universe”
I don’t know what to expect of the ending. I just hope its happy though, because no one wants their loved one desperately trying to fix things by go around for all eternity. “Eternal Monarch”, right?
Yes I think the flowers are definitely the ones she planted, they just took forever to grow and Luna is TE, she says she borrowed the cats name… something happened that she could not be with LG (ep 11 trailer?) and so she no lives on borrowed time… running away from him and everyone who knows her.
@Tomato101
Wow… flowers bit was interesting. I wonder if the flowers in her balcony will ever grow!
I still want to know the name of the flowers to read up on what they could mean.
I mean why does this LG (Future/past/present) come to her in that moment? His confessing I love you is literally as though she passed way without hearing the words.
Call me a sadist but this would be a drama/script worth its salt only if JTE passes away in a real painful manner to evoke emotions.
@graciax452 I am one of those who doesn’t want Luna to be JTE or connected in that way as that for me (just my opinion) kills away the logic of the story.
Like I said earlier I want a good story… I dont care if it makes my cry or smile — as long as it is satisfying. Will 7 hours be enough to answer everything?
PM is power hungry enough to want to go to LR as LR can promise forever though LR will treat her as a pawn but will she be smart enough to realize that?
Will the 7 year old RoK twins help JY identify LR? And I am prepared for even episodes to be -at-the-edge-of-my-seat kinds.
Editing style will not change. We, the audience, are the Alice being pushed down a rabbit hole thus the attempt at constantly disorienting us. And personally for me episode 9 and 10 work.
Question: In Ep. 10, sin Jae”s Mom is talking on the telephone with a friend. The friend says she saw XX at the store (I think) getting into an expensive car. SJ Mom says, Oh, you mean XX, who used to work for me as a mais/housekeeper before we lost everything? I’m glad she is doing well. Her son was the same as age SJ, I used to give her his old clothes. Is this ex housekeeper LG ROK Mother? Was the ROK Sin Jae friends with ROK Lee Gon?
Otherwise, I’m glad to see SJ working with TE, JY, and LG on solving the mysteries. ES little sister was so cute-she seems to be the only one who believes that JY is not her brother. Her twin bro seemed to accept him.
I’m glad ES survived the shooting-good thing he was wearing the bulletproof vest.
Oh, no- Prince B! Sniff! Why wasn’t he at the palace though? I thought he was going there right after LG told him to.
Preview looks ominous with TE crying and covered in blood.
@Arihsi: ‘From @Fern note of the ending scene,…’ I can’t take credit, that was @Phoenix88. I’ve only just finished watching. Now I’m a bit spooked, to say the least. 😯😥 It was a beautiful scene, but harrowing.
@Tomato101 you said about the romance that
” (or it’s not the cup of tea of viewers who are more vocal about their opinions :))”
Couldn’t agree more. This blog has people who get it.
As for ep10 finally some developmwnt happened in the series.
The emphasis of this drama is science and mathematics. The only metaphysical aspect here is fate intervening as a balance restorer. Also importantly fate chooses people to do acts that will restore balance. And LG is doing his part.
In the last scene LG said he crossed the universe to come meet her. So that means he manages to find a way to time travel.
It seems there’s gonna be a sad interlude but as LG wants a beautiful solution and a beautiful answer so will it be 🙂
The solution is time travel. The answer will also be a happy one. As others have also speculated there will be travelling to the past to set things right in the future. We got a glimpsr of this time travel today in the last scene.
So @Tomato101 talking about the ending I’d say it’ll be happy one. And no going around for eternity business…we may have to take a few u-turns but then on it’ll be a smooth ride 😉
I was really intrigued by the scene with LR and the boy Fate. LR scoffs at the boy’s recap of the book and of the morality implied. He told the boy that the sword decides what justice is. The boy replied, ‘I see that things in your world keep changing.’ Then the boy basically dismisses LR and says he want to see how the King Arthur story ends. LR looks stumped for the first time.
I wonder how that version of King Arthur ends. There are so many variations, but one has the king critically injured, handing over his crown and brought to an island to be cared for, but from which he is not seen again.
Episode 10.
Whew! Finally an episode where I can comment hot without fear of being unpleasant.
The episode was generally okay, and no situation pissed me off.
The main story always has trouble moving forward.
Some situations are not very specific about time and place.
However, the way these scenes are rendered are good, and the scenes are interesting.
You’ve certainly read the news about the changes in the production.
The main director is now in charge of editing.
I have the distinct impression that despite the urgency, this episode has been reworked by this director.
To be 90% certain, we would have to compare it to several episodes.
I made the comparison with episode 4 of the drama.
During episode 4, the shots are quite long, all the scenes have the same atmosphere, very little background music, and few characters seen up close.
Here’s what I see in episode 10.
Better clarity. For example, during the timestop, there is a voice over of LG. It says that LL has returned to the kingdom of Korea. This is a useful indication of where LL is.
A small bonus that could have been nice: a quick and stylized shot of LL coming out of the dimensional portal.
Related: Different dimensional gateways, something I’ve suspected for a while.
The other gateway would have the perfect place in the bookstore.
Among the isolated scenes, depicting different situations and characters, I noted this one:
LG goes to the police station to find out about luna. Then, next scene, luna feeds a cat.
In these conditions, it’s easier to follow the story, it goes on naturally.
I don’t know if the script is written this way, or if the editor has rearranged the order of these scenes, however.
Meeting LG – LL: again, easier understanding. There is a short flashback in the conversation to illustrate “do you remember my voice?”.
28:00: Short flashback of PM Koo’s mother. Ditto, helps understanding.
33:00: Short flashback. Yeong sees Shin Jay’s mother, then remembers meeting her as a maid in the palace.
VOILA. Even if we’ve forgotten everything else, we know what’s important. Any spectator who doesn’t know anything about this character immediately understands that there is a doopleganger in the palace.
35:00: background music (fortunately not systematic) that changes the atmosphere. For example, here an investigative music analoge to those of the series “the mentalist”.
51:00 : sad scene, background music.
57:30 : hectic background music that continues on stage with the yoyo boy.
I didn’t write down all the timecodes, of course.
General impression of this episode: it looks more like an episode from any other drama. More background music, shorter scenes, a bit more close up, some sound effects. Much more effective and preferable than the failed atmospheres of the previous episodes, more original but soporific and not very readable.
More scenes benefit from a treatment that gives them a unique atmosphere, I just spotted random timecode.
Hi! Just delurk to give props to the directors and KES writing + her writers’(of course she must have an army of writers behind her).
Thanks for not treating us viewers as stupid and lazy that demand her to lay out everything verbally and visually.
As the characters grow, the story build up… the viewers grow as well. For example- Time stops means the other flute holder had crossover means both flutes are now in the same side of the world WITHOUT the need to show someone crossing the portal anymore.
I first watch the show without reading too much on every character set as i want them to tell me what they are made of. if not i’ll be impatient, trying to force the story to skip certain scenes just bcos i knew it already, just get it done and over with. Scoot, show me something else! Glad so far i haven’t feel this way.
Enjoy reading everyone’s take on the show especially yours- blog writer. Keep writing. Here some cookies 🍪 🍪
I’m still mourning for my Buyeong Gun Mama… my goodness T_T
one of my guess is right, huh?
I regret myself to have such a vision like this, because now my eyes are sore :”(
a lot of pain I had for ep 10, even for a common scene my eyes become watering, wth?! I should save my body water tho! why I’m becoming like this?! 🙁
this kind of situation reminds my sorrow for of Mr. Sunshine, although in TKEM sometimes KES still give us some fresh air. I don’t remember whether I was also “this sad” for Goblin or Secret Garden.
this typical of KES, I must be know it… I must be know it, but I still fall in her trap pfftt
6 eps to go, I hope I can survive when the ending is come 🙂
Is it possible that he’s been traveling through time, made some changes and travel back with the big hope that what he changed involves seeing TE living as an anticipated result? Hence, the future LG was so relieved to see her then? Which means whatever that he changes in the future works?
Episode 10 – I enjoyed it.
My favourite scene has to be the show laughing at itself as it blatantly gives us scene after scene of PPL. I love how our Squad 3 sat on the steps after night shift, drinking their PPl drinks and Chief Park saying “No, they’re looking at us because they think we’re filming a TV commercial.” LOL it’s true. This whole show is a nice long commercial of several brands with, by chance, a science-fi/fantasy slotted in between. Good joke! And then Jangmi starts singing with PPL drink as microphone. I lost it!
There are many scenes to highlight… briefly the plus sign.
LG’s speech was indicative. The plus sign, symbol that has different meanings attached to it. Where the Sword is also a plus sign, it is the sign to give “courage to face their fate.”
Direction
This is the first time I’m hearing that the Rat in the year of the Rat is also the “god of direction and time”. A clue that time can move in more than 1 direction and that one’s direction is important.
LG says to PM Koo that he will root for her but he says: “I hope you don’t have a bad sense of direction”. And again he tells her later not to pull on the gag of the horse to change it’s direction.
More later …
thanks, GB
and i have to add that…
i super love ep 10’s editing , they edited the 0 – 1 space to blueish gold colour i like this colour better than the orangey purple one but why so many balloons?
(or are they different dimensions?)
also the flashbacks to help people watching understand (like JY remember SJ’s ROK mom is the palace maid in KOC, the car who tails SJ, the man who was caught in RoK) we know smart ppl can connect them without the flashbacks but it really helps for those who don’t quite understand them
LG found out they INDEED have different portal(s) to travel
and also the jab at the PPL joke is so funny 😂😂
6 eps left.. the question is can they wrap things up perfectly without loose ends?
(if they give me a vagabond like ending to “open possibilities” for season 2.. i will flip tables 😤😤)
Those were two thrilling episodes!
First things first:
# Time-loop theory status: 98% confirmed.
# TE’s death status: 85% confirmed.
# My emotional status: 100% depressed.
# Most important revelation IMHO: Fate is a curious boy and that should give us a glimmer of hope for our good guys. A curious person experiments with things and looks for new outcomes.
# TE keeps asking LG about previous relationships. The sad part of that is he’s probably had previous relationships but always with the same woman.
# Prince Buyeong’s death specially hit me cause he kinda looks like my Grandpa. Hope Prince Buyeong will say hi to him for me.
# Speaking about Prince Buyeong, he confused me. First, he encourages LG to go all in for what he wants. Then, he acts surprised when LG tells him that he’s gonna actually do it. Either that first scene took place afterwards and they’re trying to confuse us or the script is incoherent here.
# Will they ever finish the whole tray of chicken? (I’m starting to believe curious fate should actually punish them for wasting that much food)
#Questions I have *unrolls toilet paper roll*
– Why not telling TE about the key that opens the portal? (I mean, she’ll figure it out eventually when she compares the first time he took her and the portal didn’t open and the time when it worked. So she’ll know that is either the horse or the whip. All I’m saying is he could’ve saved her some thinking)
– How on Earth does Lady Noh know about the other world? (Also, I think she had feelings for Prince Buyeong by looking at the way she reacted to his death)
@GB
“courage to face their fate.”
That way, even a sad, expected ending could have its part of unexpected.
Characters who choose their destiny, even if it leads to an unhappy conclusion: It would have a strong emotional impact.
Something much more moving than just suffering the bad fate.
Because of what I read here in the comment, that there might be two saviours: JTE and LG. (I’m sorry, I forgot who. But still thanks.) So, I rewatched it again episode 1 again. I notice or my delusional mind conjure the image of JTE. In 13:18~20, the face resembles LG, but in 53:40~42, the face resembles JTE. This is the first kdrama that makes me think so much that my brain hurts.
Also, I don’t know if someone have mentioned this before, but I notice that there might be a meaning for red balloon. I rewatched the episode 1, there are balloons (red & white) when Luna was running away from the gangsters. Then, LG use red balloon again at the place between “1 and 0”. And now, ES holding red balloon when LG went back in KOC with ES. And somehow, there’s a lot of red balloon when LG went back in the place between “1 and 0”. Lastly, red balloon when JTE and LG reunite.
Thanks for all of you sharing thoughts, watching this drama is fun because of all your theories. I really enjoy it.
I hope the ending will be not the same as Hwayugi.
My take is that he is about to have that final showdown with LR. And as LG & TE talked about it before, it is really a matter of life or death. I bet the chances of the showdown’s survivor is 50-50%. Hence, his “goodbye” kiss & i love you to TE…
What if the 1st scene in Epi 1 is what comes after the fight between LG & LR? Interesting that LR is the one alive to be interrogated.
Hi, I have been enjoying the discussions on this blog. It’s interesting the way KES named her main characters.
Lee Gon (Hanja: 李衮）The character 衮 originally means the ceremonial robe that the emperor wears during heaven worshipping ceremonies. Another meaning is the emperor himself. There are quite a few camera shots focused on Lee Gon’s various robes and uniforms. And the scene in episode 6 where LG told JTE the meaning of him wearing a military uniform. The clothing he wore at the end of episode 10 is the same as episode 1 when he was holding the four tiger sword and facing the portal. I think it is a scene where he is preparing for the final battle with Lee Lim. And the ornate clothes are some sort of royal uniform. So the last scene of episode 10 is he telling JTE goodbye before heading off to the final showdown with LL, which mirrors the goodbye scene of episode 6 before he headed off to face the Japanese.
Tae-Eul (hanja: 太乙）太乙means Northern Pole Star (Polaris), it symbolizes the emperor in ancient Chinese astrology. By observing Polaris, they could predict the fortunes of the emperor. It is also believed to be where the emperor of the Heaven resides. So, to LG, JTE is his home. Additionally, across all cultures, Polaris provides direction to lost travelers. If LG gets lost during all his time travelings, JTE will be the guiding star to provide him the direction to return home.
Lee Lim (Hanja: 李霖） 霖 literally means non-stop rain. According to the myth of the magic flute, when blown, enemies retreat, diseases cured, rain falls after a drought and rain stops after a long raining season. So LL is the long raining season that LG is destined to stop when he is in full possession of the flute.
Yeong (Hanja: 影）means shadow. As LG’s bodyguard, Yeong is literally LG’ shadow. Yeong’s character sketch on the show’s website says he is the first born son of a family that has served the royals for generations. In addition to life-long friendship, Jo Yeong’s devotion to LG can be explained by his belief that protecting the king is his life’s purpose.
Don’t mention “Hwayugi.” 😆 That was the Hong sisters’ shitshow, not KES.
I stopped watching Hwayugi after 14th episode. I didn’t bother with the finale which I heard was messed-up anything.
“Characters who choose their destiny, even if it leads to an unhappy conclusion: It would have a strong emotional impact.
Something much more moving than just suffering the bad fate.” @WEnchanteur, I agree. This is a good idea. The discussion about fate with Prince Buyeong highlighted this and Lady Noh seemed to be on the same page.
When LG came to the prince’s house, the first thing LG asks is ‘How’s everything with Se-Jin?’ Se-Jin, I’m guessing would be next in line after the Prince, so LG is checking on the succession. He’s consciously preparing for the worst on the path he has chosen.
In some Arthurian legends, Arthur dies without a successor. In others, he gives his crown to his cousin, Constantine and disappears.
It’s quite a muddled legend, as the tales first start in post-roman Britain/Brittany. “In some Welsh and Breton tales and poems that date from before this work, Arthur appears either as a great warrior defending Britain from human and supernatural enemies or as a magical figure of folklore, sometimes associated with the Welsh otherworld Annwn.” A British work from 1138 was very popular during the 12th C in France where details and stories about Arthur were written and re-written and expanded. (Credit to Google Uni, Wiki College of Liberal Arts.)
edit: ‘popular. And during the 12th C in France details…’
Must improve my proof-reading.
I am so inspired by all of your theories and had a really good time on reading them. Reading this blog have became my daily routine.
I can’t speak Korean, but can read some. And I found:
Ep.9 47:52 PM Ko said to her ex-husband, “Guyeon tunnel(구연 터널) project seems to be fishiest”.
In Ep.10 LL vanished into a tunnel to meet the bookstore owner. And the name of the tunnel is Guyeon.(구연 터널)
It might imply that PM Ko’s ex-husband might be the followers of LL.
@kuroshio, that is a good clue that I would never have understood. Thanks. Yes, the PM seems to think that her ex-husband has access somehow to followers of LL through his company.
I just finished episode 10 and I agree with everyone here, the editing is much better, and I really feel that I have follow the story well (I’m one of those confused noob watchers where I would have given up if not for all the very smart people here sharing the interpretations!)
@Summerwind525 – thanks for sharing about the hanja names! I like your idea of the name interpretations!
A few questions/observations I have from episode 10:
– it was not mentioned what the beautiful dream of SJ was. It feels like they intentionally cut it off so that we would maybe think SJ may still turn Bad
– with the analysis of the previous poem by @packmule3, I started being more observant of any poems that is read by OCL Noh. So the poem only says “is that you?” twice, meaning there cannot be a third time cause 3 times means death. Maybe I’m reading too much into that lol
– when LL kills Prince BY, he intentionally put back the Emperor’s ring back on Prince BY’s finger, seemingly indicating that LL is saying the throne is nothing because he is having something better and he is aiming for something more (the whole flute)
– when Tae-Eul hugged Shin-jae to console him, I would have thought SJ would return the hug, after all, his love has finally hugged him! But somehow, he didn’t move and just seemed so sad and forlorn. Was wondering whether this means that he realised that they have never be together because they don’t belong in the same world, so her hug doesn’t really seem to comfort him?
I have this other theory, about the May 26 2022 video (if someone have mentioned it before, pls let me know!). In that video, Tae-Eul seems fine, and if the theory of TE = Luna is true (which is a high possibility now since it has been revealed Luna isn’t even her name (borrowed from the cat), and this is 2020 and Luna only has 3 months to live, then I think the video is actually boy fate’s hint to LG of an alternative fate i.e. a happier ending for Tae-eul, and that the future can be changed.
And I cannot wait for episode 11! It clearly shows a turning point of Tae-Eul’s character, and I think it may show finally how TE becomes Luna?
@Kuroshio – that is very intriguing. Thank you for the valuable input.
That would give PM more ammunition. How she will use this is something to look forward to!
Goodness, can’t this King get a break?! Why do I wonder? He cannot even get to taste his coveted stew Hmmmp.
@Pikaluna – what bothers me about the King’s ring
1. Why is it with LR at all if it is the King’s? He was wearing it when he killed LG’s father.
2. Prince, they do not covet the ring so why did he not turn over the ring to LG?
I agree, by leaving it with the dead Prince says he has more important goals than the throne. It may also further confuse LG why it was with the Prince all this time. Even after he confessed about the autopsy.
@Aeiou
Your point is interesting, and I am providing an explanation of why maximum clarity is needed in the way a script is rendered on screen. This is even more obvious when the story is complex and intended for television.
There is no point in creating confusion just for that purpose alone. Certainly, some scenes look prettier when you give them an enigmatic side, but in reality, it’s better if everything is obvious. If there is a mystery, make people understand that there is a mystery, not generate artificial mysteries.
To target the audience, I call this the iceberg technique. The emerged part is what the ordinary spectator perceives, and that makes him or her love drama. So, by asking themselves a few questions, but a reasonable number of them.
The submerged part is all the invisible mechanics. Hidden elements that will have a positive impact on the emerged part, without needing to be perceived. Of course, on this blog, Packmule3 has a lot of fun to be interested in this part, to the point where it can be the main interest of the story for her. It’s another way to love a drama, but it requires a serious work of analysis and intense rewatching. 😀
The intelligence of the spectators is not in question, at the limit their laziness, and still, people watch television to relax.
I occasionally have to help colleagues at work to expose complex problems, using powerpoint presentations. Content designed for business managers. Very smart people. Yet these people are very easily lost in an hour of explanation. The aim of the powerpoint is to be as short and as clear as possible, with regular redundancies to re-explain points that have already been explained. The stakes: the amount of information to be delivered, the time given to each, the assimilation capacity of the leaders to absorb everything without error.
It is the same thing for a television/screenplay scenario.
If you’ve seen American series from the 80s, they have one thing in common: even when the viewer reaches 2/3 of the episode, he is able to understand everything, even without having seen the beginning of the episode. This is an extreme example. But that’s how TV channels try to attract the audience, and in case the viewer has just changed channels, to be sure he stays.
In a screenplay, what is shown prevails over what is said.
Hence my comment on a passage from episode 10.
21:10
While LG is undergoing a timestop, he makes a remark “LL has just arrived in the world of the Kingdom”.
However, as you mentioned, at this point in the story, the viewer finally understood that the timestop was caused by the travels of the owners of the two pieces of flute.
Although it is not absolutely useful here, I proposed a brief visual insert before pronouncing the dialogue, showing LL. So it’s redundant with the dialogue, and it’s meant to be! It helps to attract attention, and to keep the meaning, even if the dialogue was missed.
Back on episode 9 : I wanted a visual insert like this to better explain a scene. Concentrated on reading the dialogue, I ridiculously forgot to look, while the visual insert had been done. This shows how visual attention can be diverted, and how memory can be misled. Fortunately, thanks to this redundancy, if I missed one detail, I still saw the other, and understood globally what was happening. So I can thank the director!
With a rendering as confusing as TKEM’s, even someone who thinks he has understood and is quick-witted can be wrong.
You say:
“Time stops means the other flute holder had crossover means both flutes are now in the same side of the world”
Just not. It’s an anomaly I detected when I was reviewing the drama. I confirmed this by rewatching, then with help of Packmule3 analysis.
Like you, I was initially certain that the two flutes had to be in the same world to generate a timestop. That’s what happens the first time.
As the drama was piling up, I kept thinking that, when it wasn’t true anymore. I continued to think that, because when a timestop was done, the context of the before/after scenes was confusing. There were other clues that made me think that as well. It would take too long to expose everything, and we would have to do a whole article about it.
In the end, no, what creates timestop is the fact that the flute pieces become joined OR separated. If LG is in the world of ROK, it will also cause timestop, if LL goes from the world of ROK to the world of QOK.
Hence the fact that the dialogue of LG is very important during the scene of episode 10: the viewer is informed of the destination of LL! This dialogue is important since it also explains that LG will go in search of LL.
However, this dialogue has a side effect: it may confirm the viewer in his belief that timestops only take place when the two flutes are joined together.
Indeed, there is a detail which is not related: How does LG know that LL comes in the world of QOK? When he might as well leave it?
This reason exists! And yet, I had forgotten it, even though it’s in episode 9! LG and LL are both in the world of ROK and argue on the phone (19:00).
If at the time of the timestop, the director had used a short flashback showing a bit of this scene, with a short dialogue from LG just saying “he was in ROK with me”. You could have understood immediately the real reason why LG knows that LL just arrived in QOK. A reason having nothing to do with an inaccurate rule.
If at this point of the story, you believe in this inaccurate rule: your intelligence is not at stake! Nor that of any other spectator.
What is at issue is the bad rendering offered by the screenplay throughout the drama. Because it also means that all the scenes around the timestop were confused. And this is indeed the case.
This is why the understanding of the spectator is a priority, and why redundancy effects are useful, and why it is preferable not to use confused scenes because of an excess of style. It can happen, but it is better if the story is already established on a good basis. This is not the case with TKEM, which has abused this kind of effects from the beginning.
@PikaLuna – I have this thought that TE=Luna too and that the recap of episode 11 is a look back of Luna’s past before she became Luna. and quoting Summerwind525
“Tae-Eul (hanja: 太乙）太乙means Northern Pole Star (Polaris), it symbolizes the emperor in ancient Chinese astrology. By observing Polaris, they could predict the fortunes of the emperor. It is also believed to be where the emperor of the Heaven resides. So, to LG, JTE is his home. Additionally, across all cultures, Polaris provides direction to lost travelers. If LG gets lost during all his time travelings, JTE will be the guiding star to provide him the direction to return home.”
isn’t it Luna who led Lee Gon to discover the Obelisk when he followed her from the previous episode? And why did she always disappear from Lee Gon’s sight whenever he tried to chase her? I have this feeling that the role reversal doesn’t end on their date. And Luna was the one who travels through time to guide Lee Gon how to change their fate.
BTW, for everyone’s info. the yo-yp kid is actually a girl.
Meet KIM BO WIN!
http://asianwiki.com/Kim_Bo-Min_(2010)
@Fern:
Knight Lancelot has a love affair with King Arthur’s wife.
Maybe in TKEM, the second male lead still has a chance? ^^
That broke my heart. The many balloons. Cos to me it meant how many times LG went over the time loop to correct whatever needed correcting. The popular theory is that TE dies so… I say he went over 988 times…
Ahhh. Now, you know why I was bothered by the time loop. I can’t fathom someone doing this for ETERNITY. It’s just mind-blogging. I said so in one of First Impressions posts — that if you think about it, we don’t know exactly WHEN Episode 1 occurred. For convenience’s sake, I determined it as Starting Time “T” and the adult Lee Gon was “LG” and the next LG was “LG + 1”.
But what if Time T = 71
Or T = 105
Or T = 100,000
Or T = 5
That’s why I said:
a. the “slow burn” doesn’t make sense
b. They should some memory left over from the countless times they did this.
@PikaLuna @MissSuperCyan
I don’t think TE=Luna. Although Luna still has some form of a moral code (caring about kids and animals), her reputation in the criminal underworld and her propensity for violence (the ice cream shop incident) clearly exclude the possibility of her being Tae-Eul from a different timeline. Tae-Eul has too much integrity and sense of justice in her to ever become Luna even in desperate situations.
The importance of Luna with only three months to live is that LL may lure her to work for him with the promise of extending her life. Under normal circumstances, Luna is not an easy pawn for anybody to manipulate, Luna probably would refuse LL’s offer of a swap with Tae-Eul if she doesn’t have cancer. I think Luna may initial go along with LL’s plan, but switch sides at the last minute. She is the wildcard.
On the other hand, PM Koo seems most likely to go dark among all the main characters. She clearly is not satisfied with being a PM with term limits. Only way to achieve everlasting power for her is to become Queen. When it becomes clear to her that she has no chance with LG, and LL makes the right offer she will not hesitate. I don’t think she has any romantic attachments to LG, he is only a mean to an end for her. In her conversation with her ex-husband, he questioned the reason why she wanted intel on LL. Is it because she wants to catch the traitors or to join the traitors? She has history of wiretapping her husband and uses the evidence for blackmail. And her Ex suggests she maybe wiretapping the palace as well, which I think the act itself is likely to be considered treasonous in KOC. If she finds evidences of LL being alive, she may try to make a deal with LG first, then after being rejected, takes up LL’s offer.
Knight Lancelot has a love affair with King Arthur’s wife.
Maybe in TKEM, the second male lead still has a chance? ^^
@WEnchanteur, I have been wondering this. Quizas, quizas, quizas. Tae-Eul described Sin-Jae to JG as most trustworthy. Sin-Jae wondered in which world he belonged and asked Tae-Eul if she would welcome him. She responded with a hug, which may or may not mean something. Something may happen later to make LG think he should relinquish her to him.
@mychoiyoung
the little child plays cha young in chocolate. I didn’t check the link but I liked her and yes, I did follow chocolate.
red balloon: had read it somewhere that it could be the cheshire cat who guides Alice.
I am not a fan of JTE=Luna theory because then JY should ES or vice versa in some time-loop and there are no doppelgängers. I do like the thought that the drama is an allegory on how strong and weak people exist within each one of us (character and their doppelgänger) or rather the white and the black coexist within each one of us and that how we choose to realise aspects of us is dependent upon choices/destiny is something we need to grapple/play with in our journeys to adulthood (like Alice). But JTE being Luna would be a logical glitch according to me.
It is a wonderland so JTE could be Luna or vice-versa but unless someone gives me a good logic for that I would be a bit disappointed because even wonderland has to work with some ground rules that it is built on (and there are some unconscious ones).
I really want to see how the 6 episodes play out.
@kuroshio thanks for that tunnel thing. I know it was mentioned in a PM official meeting (episode 1-5) in passing too. I for one can’t concentrate much on her dealings as she just bugs me. Instead of vouching for her as she is a lone woman in a room full of men and has risen up through sheer grit… there is a part of me which just wants to see her fail. Even if she ends up helping the King, I will not like her. Her wanting to be in power by marrying the King is just not done in the right way (for me).
I blame this on how the drama did not work enough on hooking audience to characters. It threw us in the middle of an ensemble (which is fine!) but past that did nothing to increase character interaction such that it would evoke emotions in us. Maybe I am not able to pin point the exact characteristic that doesn’t work for me but an example would be: JY and JTE meet 3 times in episode 10. Of the three times, once JTE takes home cooked meal to JY and once she takes him out to eat chicken. Both of these interactions felt strained and a bit empty. There was no bonding that happened. I just kept feeling sad. JY was unapproachable.
Chicken eating scene: JY says that he will eat and leave as ES’s parents are coming. He doesn’t eat. They both just wish each other new year (sounds formal to me but I dont know if it is language wise) and he leaves.
Meal to JY at the hotel room: The mobile history was cute, JY’s questioning JTE is logical.
For me the above two were a bit empty interactions. I didn’t know what to make of them. They have no relation if not for the King and we are building nothing in their relation would we want to share it with an audience?
I like the story and I love the references. I think the sets/accessories/scenes have a consciousness running through them but I just don’t trust the director/editor. I feel as though I am following lonely individuals, mostly.
Not sure who pointed out but that shrink and Sj’s interaction definitely was not complete. I am a bit suspicious of her. I also wonder what to make of SJ and JTE’s interaction (the hug that he didn’t respond to, what did he resolve when he returned to the team, what was his relation to LG in Corea). The silences need to be interpreted but I am not good at that.
I really feel bad for the King. He literally was the thinker, leader and executioner in episode 10. He now has no one to help, even ES is in hospital. Does he know that swaps happened at brawn level and the leadership level! Oi oi oi…just thinking about his situation makes me anxious. Despite the preview, I hope JTE ends up being his strength rather than a weeping dead weight. I would want the beautiful answer to live up to her courageous reputation.
Fate told LR: things change in his world. Only change I can think of is his driver/right hand man in Korea.
As you can see I have too many expectations and nothing to add in terms of analysis 😀
I look forward to reading everyone’s comments/posts about the King. #obsessed
“If she finds evidences of LL being alive, she may try to make a deal with LG first, then after being rejected, takes up LL’s offer.” @Summerwind525, I was wondering if the PM might find a way to force LG’s hand. Some way he will have to act to protect his people. Either way, with LL or LG, she’s a nasty problem. I wonder when her mother’s car crash dream will come true. Truck of doom becomes truck of fate? 😉
Regarding the flowers in the last scene
Is there still someone wondering what type of flowers those were ?? I’m sorry if it was mentioned before because I’m not caught up with the comment thread. Apparently the internet thinks they are “forget me nots” the flower signifying true love and rememberance of a love lost.
😭
@summerwind525 what a lovely explanation of the names ! They seem so well thought out! Thank you!
@Fern @mychoiyoung you made my day. This is the first time I felt my learning korean was not in vain.
I started watching K-drama last year. At first, I found the time-line in K-drama is quite different from let’say American drama.
It goes two steps forward, then takes 3 steps backward which is okay if you used to it. But in this one which obviously involved with time: future, present, and past, is confusing.
At the beginning of the 10th episode, for one moment, I thought LG had figured out how to make time travel.
I think the editor should make the drama more straight since the plot is complicated. And I prefer lighting in these 2 episodes. Actors look more natural to me(Lee Min-ho looks wearing too much make-up to me in the other previous episodes).
@Arihsi, they don’t look like the forget-me-nots that grow around here. Ours are tiny. (Myosotis, related to borage) BUT, sometimes a common use name is given to a plant or animal that is similar to another from a different part of the world, so it’s possible that those flowers are called forget-me-nots in Korea. I couldn’t see them very clearly.
They may literally also be imaginary flowers – light blue silk flowers that don’t really correspond to anything real.
@Fern… Yes I also thought they didn’t look real. They also seemed rather haphazard? I live in a tropical region and forget me not flowers are not native to the climate here (Hence, I’ve never seen them myself).
P.S. in spite of my earlier inhabitation of cynical island, I’m enjoying watching LMH. I thought he emoted really well in the last scene such that you could make out he’s not the current timeline LG but someone who’s been living through a horrible nightmare.
@Fern You are probably right about the car accident. Two things happened in her mom’s dream. Something was taken from her, which came true as Luna stole her bracelet. And she would get into a car accident.
On another note, I think the second portal is located in the Guyeon tunnel, not the bookstore that some people on Reddit suggested. A deserted tunnel seems to be a more practical location to move LL’ s army. The involvement of PM’s ex in the tunnel project ( corruption was suggested) and LL’s meeting with his Corean henchman in the tunnel help connect the dots between PM and LL. The Ex is the missing link.
Did anybody notice the name of the bookstore changed in 2022? I am too lazy to do screenshots. But the signs are different. It’s a matter of time that SJ’s mother will be exposed by JY and her capture and interrogation will lead to exposure of the bookstore.
I agree, Fern. That was my guess in the “The Red King’s Dream” post, that Netflix was actually correct when they subbed the flower packet as “Imaginary Flowers” because they don’t exist in the real world.
They were part of a dream, or a dreamscape that either Lee Gon or TaeEul could have dreamt.
I’ll watch Ep 9 and 10 tonight.
@Arishi Azaleas, baby’s breath and delphinium are some suggestions I’ve read from other forums.
@packmule3, It would be poetic justice if the flowers didn’t actually exist, but I’m not an expert on flowers found the world over; more knowledgeable on North American and European types. I wonder why the flowers stayed with her while LG seemed to disappear, ghostlike.
I had thought that TE placing her hand over his, rather than on his face, neck or shoulder was not a normal gesture. When he was gone, she was left touching her own neck.
I like the Alice-in-Wonderland syndrome theory. Even if it’s not happening in this drama, it made for a good related reading on t’internet and related to Lewis Carroll.
@MissSuperCyan, azaeleas are woody, shrubby plants, delphinium grow in spires and baby’s breath are tiny, cloud-like bunches. All of those can have blue varieties, but none of them take the form shown, so it’s a puzzle to me. I think they are pretty, so if someone can name them for me, I’d be tempted to see if they grow where I live.
Ref flowers, Looking at them again, they might be light blue phlox. The flower heads look similar as do the leaves and stem structure.
The name comes from the Greek word for flame or light.
Phlox represents harmony, partnership, unity, and compatibility. It is also considered as the symbol of agreement.
I read somewhere that the flower seeds (相思花was written on the packet) could be Lycoris radiata, which is native to Korea and China. If you google it, it look just like the sketch on the packet. According to wiki, it’s also known as resurrection lily. I don’t think the flowers that he brought her were picked from the in between place.
Speaking of resurrection, the painting that LG joked about in episode 5 is Saint John and Saint Bartholomew by Dosso Dossi. Would that be of any relevance? Interesting that LG joked about twelve people watching, twelve Apostles reference?
@Summerwind525
Thanks for such interesting insights. I wonder who will be Judas to our King 😀
I keep thinking that we are interpreting this from so many world views, wouldn’t it be interesting to know what was the writer thinking (her world view) with regard to the imagery/philosophy/stances.
When I saw him giving the flowers with that sad expression (real or imaginary), all I could think of was funerals. I actually thought that he is coming from doctor uncle’s funeral and so he is literally wanting comfort/holding on tight to what was living (I did not think of time travelling LG though her step back is the hint that something is odd — i left it as a question while watching).
@WEchanteur i stand corrected about the time stops. I rewatched eps 3. How could i forget…the moment when LG saw something beautiful lol. What follows after that scene definitely shows they were in different world.
LL crossed over to KOC but no verbal cue at that point, even LG himself looked rather puzzled but he assumed it was a side effect of using the portal and the assumption remains. He still doesn’t know LL is still alive so his assumption stands.
Eps 9, LG stood close to the 2G phone after the time stops, waiting LL to call in- could It be now or Could there be another time stops before the phone rings. The time passed, it was almost night time(or already?), the phone rang then he answered. Then only it became clear to LG of LL whereabout. When he explicitly say ‘finally LL is in KOC’, he put the assumption to rest and it became fact. (Before it becomes another chicken or the egg problem)
When looking back at all these, maybe some of the cues were rather late for some- but i would still enjoy the rewatch to recalibrate.
By the way, eps 10 ending, can i say actually i was spooked by LG presence. Usually he will be in the compound looking in. But this time he was outside the compound. Maybe it’s nothing lol. If he were to position himself in the yard, It will be weird if JTE didn’t notice him.
I’m laughing at 12.36am cos if this kdrama is aiming for a rewatch count, then it’s doing a great job. 😂 The waiting time in between new eps is another 5-day marathon from ep1. 🙈
@Aeiou you’re right. Another sign that it isn’t the usual LG.
@Aeiou.
You’re lucky you can tell who’s where by looking at the scene again. Even seeing it again, I had a hard time.
I’ll make a detailed comment on why the viewer is very easily mistaken about this the first time he watches the drama. It doesn’t matter if the spectator is already very advanced in the story and already knows the answers. The important thing is the real-time experience, when one watches normally. So the understanding at the moment the viewer first discovers the episode.
And I would take the example of that scene from episode 3 you just mentioned.
I’ve actually started to analyze in more detail some scenes that I find confusing.
My first observation is appalling:
– the writing of these scenes is nevertheless perfect, or almost perfect, when the scene is studied in isolation. The writer’s work is very good. So the problem comes from elsewhere.
– The direction is rather correct too. Of course, the director can use tricks, like the ones I mentioned (short flashbacks), but I don’t think that’s enough to compensate for everything.
– the spectator: if even spectators who like drama and/or are intelligent have problems understanding it, then there is a problem. If the ratings of the drama keep going down, there is a problem. And you can’t blame the spectators when you write a drama for them! The spectators are moreover of good faith, they want to like the drama, that’s why they came here.
So there are problems, in spite of the various talents, the quality of the work and the good will of everyone. If the isolated elements do not manage to explain this, it is more of a general mechanism, to be studied from a meta angle. It’s something vicious enough that it’s difficult to detect, in the first place by the screenwriter.
– It’s typically the case where those who know too much about the story have difficulty estimating the difference between them, who know everything, and the audience, who know nothing. What is obvious to the storyteller is unknown to the audience, so we forget to explain it sufficiently.
– The problems are also related to choices of structure, chronological order, accumulation of situations with unknown context, and miscalculation of the spectators’ assimilation capacities.
– Finally, I strongly suspect poor prior choices, even before the script is written. Questions to ask oneself such as: is this character or this subplot really necessary or interesting?
In studying this, I will respect the writer’s point of view. I felt that it was not her goal to write a hectic, plot-twist filled story the way I like it. So I won’t judge that, although I think that’s what a drama should contain, and that’s the best way to please the audience. The past has proved me wrong, since with her drama Goblin, which I find scandalously boring, this screenwriter has produced a blockbuster of unprecedented success.
@No one
“once JTE takes home cooked meal to JY and once she takes him out to eat chicken. Both of these interactions felt strained and a bit empty. There was no bonding that happened.”
Thanks for pointing out the 2 empty JY/JTE exchanges in ROK, I felt the same way too. Maybe they were trying to show JY is aloof? Has other motives other the ones we already know? I couldn’t understand what is being conveyed. But the whole series, sadly, has a lot this kind of “???” scenarios. I attribute it to the production team not clearly able to convey the scene meaning. its a shame really
“I mean why does this LG (Future/past/present) come to her in that moment? His confessing I love you is literally as though she passed way without hearing the words.”
“Call me a sadist but this would be a drama/script worth its salt only if JTE passes away in a real painful manner to evoke emotions.”
I don’t have definitive answers for this, but I am actually not in the team of “JTE might have passed away”. My guess is actually he couldn’t find her (see Luna as JTE below) / or too busy trying to close the portal. I read your comment and I also feel bad for the King (“He literally was the thinker, leader and executioner in episode 10”) but this show has shown that JTE has been more than deadweight (she can shoot better than him, she’s proactive in discovering the murders are related to KOC) so I can’t imagine a script where she wouldn’t be doing anything than accidentally dying on LG (maybe trying to save him) and her death putting him up to this crazy, desperate attempt to just also resurrect her in another timeline. Its not a reason, but that scenario seemed kinda cliche for me. I’m hoping something better from the writer, I guess. I would like that she would have contribution to closing the gate but things messed up along the way, but will still get LG out of his misery. She’s supposed to be his “answer to the root he’s trapped in”, so I’m hoping there’s something we haven’t thought of yet.
The possibilities can be interesting and I really want to see what the writer has in store. Like you, I’m wondering how the remaining 6 episodes are going to play out.
Luna as JTE
Its really just a theory for now, but Luna being TE(t-1) possibility can happen if the assumption that the LG we saw in ep10’s ending was actually LG(t-1), showing that two of the same person can exist in the current(“t”) timeline. (this case it is not a doppleganger, but two of the same person) If it is true though, we do have to answer the question why everyone has a doppleganger and yet only JTE doesnt have one in KOC. I don’t have a solid answer to that except for the fact that (1) LR said he didnt “make this move”, making it sound like she is an exception (maybe in more ways than one) as well as (2) Luna seems to know the yoyo kid, and we already have suspicions about him possibly nudging the situation to balance things out.
I’ve leaning towards this because I’ve always wondered of the events during the first episode. She’s introduced as a criminal, but I cannot think of any plausible reason why she would appear in racetrack during the first episode. That was a big question mark. Her presence during the rowing competition can be attributed to coincidence, (she was shown as being chased) but for the racecourse scene, when the King LG is always there and with security surrounding him, what is the purpose of her showing up there. There’s nothing there to steal. And that event/her presence eventually resulting in him discovering the obelisk and ending up in the parallel world of ROK? That seemed to me to indicate that the Black rabbit (eventually revealed as “Luna” may know something.)
Finally, Thanks everyone again for the observations, a lot of them are really interesting!
@summerwind525 Thank you for the explanation of the character’s names
@kuroshio thanks for pointing out the tunnel
@Aeiou I think its intentional that LG was standing outside the compound looking it. It gives a melancholy look, plus they were trying to make LG look quite tired in this scene. The editing purposely put this scene here to first mislead us to think LG came to LTE to find comfort after going through Prince BY’s funeral, but instead we are suddenly led to the revelation (esp w LTE’s backstep) that this may not be who it seems.
@juliette i’ve rewatched each episode countless of times because I couldn’t make heads or tails of what certain scenes were trying to convey from my first watch……………. I don’t think I’m THAT dense/slow =.=’ lolz
I think we are going to get a very different play in the next episode. I think Fate will intervene and reward the strength of JTE’s love for the king with the ability to cross universes and reset the board.
@Phoenix88 please accept my very late apologies to you for misquoting your comment as @Fern. I had to catch up with the comment thread to see my mistake!
On the ending scene, some points about Lee Gon:
* There is not blood on his clothes nor his skin. Which could tell us he isn’t coming from a fight, since the show doesn’t shy away from blood.
*His eyes are reddish, which could imply tiredness and/or crying. Is he coming from a funeral?
*”I never even gave you a single flower”. He’s regretting that. Has he lost TE? He would realize he never gave her flowers when looking at someone giving flowers, like in a funeral.
The scene fits perfectly cause (as Tomato101 said) it’d make sense he’s coming from the Prince’s funeral but it’s good the writer/director assume we’re more clever than that. (Problem is I think sometimes they overstate how clever are we and don’t give us enough info)
*”I love you and I am deeply in love with you”. Why telling her that and then disappear? That’s just gonna hurt her more, make her miss him more. Was he selfish?
*The disappearing. I tend to believe time stopped in the middle of the kiss and he left. Is LL still alive in his future? That’s why he has to go?
*TE realized immediately this wasn’t the LG we all know but has not realized SJ’s huge crush on her?
*His tears. Earlier Lady Noh asked PM “Has His Majesty ever shed tears in front of you? Even only once? That’s why I refuse to help you”. It seems LG is not a guy who cries easily. For all we know, he hasn’t cried since that time when he finished mourning his father. And these “new” tears also looked like mourning.
*” I’m walking through the frozen moments in time”. It basically confirms he’s a time traveler. Now this should give us hope, right? If he can time travel, he can always fix the mistakes in the past and get the best outcome, right?
But then, why is he so somber? Did he find out he cannot change the future?
I was thinking:
Only true love can help people distinguish between the one they love and the other (LG future/past/doppelgänger!).
Thus, the step back by JTE.
But @alxmar97 this cracked me up:
*TE realized immediately this wasn’t the LG we all know but has not realized SJ’s huge crush on her?
I laughed out aloud.
By the way, I am in no camp with regard to who would die or live but am guessing that a drama, if it wants us to cry, will hit where it hurts. Something so dramatic has to happen that it can be considered a motivation for the hero to try defy “destiny” and the law of time. One of the leads has to suffer for it to be an epic love story 😀
(Sounds very heartless, sorry)
I have been trying to guess who all count on King’s side and could die. SJ is definitely a candidate. JY… nope am on the fence on him. ES did not die. The twins could be in danger just coz both saw LR and script keeps highlighting that JY would protect the twins, if in danger (what danger? Why would the twins be in danger). Both the Naris will be fine. Granny Noh? If anything happens to LG then the title doesn’t make sense.
Both episodes made me laugh, made me sad and made me cry.
That ending made me think maybe it’s me whose dreaming it all. I definitely felt bad for TE.
@NoOne hahaha I mean, she should know that by now, it’s pretty obvious and even LG acknowledged that on chapter 8 I think 😂😂
On the last part you wrote:
“If anything happens to LG then the title doesn’t make sense”
I’m not sure if I agree. I think we have to differentiate eternity from immortality. LG can perfectly disappear (physically die) while still “living” in some sort of other dimension. LG is eternal but not immortal, I believe.
@Alxmar97, “*”I love you and I am deeply in love with you”. Why telling her that and then disappear? That’s just gonna hurt her more, make her miss him more. Was he selfish?” I took that as both something LG felt he needed to say to reciprocate Tae-Eul’s love confession and to reassure her that he hasn’t and won’t forget about her. It may hurt, but it’s also a memory that she can cling to regardless of the outcome.
I thought, either he is preparing to die and wants this said as he thinks they won’t meet again, or he has experienced the future and knows at least one of them will die in the conflict. Whether it’s her or him I’m not certain.
On Lee Gon’s Military Tactics
Lee Gon made tactical errors in his attempt to capture Lee Lim in KOC:
•He didn’t inform others, particularly his Royal Guards, of his plan. He alone planned the Moonlight Walk with the King to draw out Lee Lim.
•He acted out of emotion, not intelligence.
•He outran his backup.
•He underestimated his foe, not having investigated the probability of supporters of Lee Lim in KOC.
•He endangered non-combatants. By his own misguided design, his choice of site was crowded with innocent civilians, subjects whose safety is his duty to protect.
This failure aligns with Lee Gon’s character. Remember, when Lee Gon was in the military, he came in last in combats in his division. His former commanding officer said his lack of ability in this area would have kept Lee Gon from being promoted if he’d stayed in the military.
But what about King Lee Gon in the naval confrontation between Japan and Corea? Wasn’t he heroic? Prime Minister Koo’s creepy white-haired mentor begs to differ. He’s mocking LG when he summarizes a newspaper article for PM Koo, saying the King is taking all the credit for winning the war with Japan.
Looking at that incident:
•PM Koo was notified of Japan’s actions and assembled the National Security Council before King Lee Gon was informed.
•Experts designed Corea’s defense of her territorial waters. There was a lot of brass in the war room. The NSC and Corea’s professional military set their defense into motion.
•King Lee Gon knew he played the role of a symbol in this situation, representing the Kingdom of Corea’s resolve to defend itself.
•The actions the King took were: have his flag flown to notify Japan of his presence; consult the superior officer on site to verify agreement on course of action; and order warning shots be fired. The only new part of this equation Lee Gon added was his presence and the flag: everything else was ready to go.
•The confrontation with Japan was won by Corea through public relations, backed by military might. King Lee Gon knew Japan risked international censure and sanctions if they killed the King of Corea while violating Corean territorial waters. LG knew his presence raised the stakes, making a military victory in this instance too costly for Japan.
•We’d previously seen Corea utilizing influence from other countries to gain goals. PM Koo had ordered pressure put on countries that import rare earth elements so they, in turn, would convince Dubai to contract with a Corean shipping company.
•Why does the Kingdom of Corea have so much international leverage? They export rare earth elements, which are ubiquitous in modern life, found in products such as: cell phones, magnets used in speakers and computer hard drives, camera and telescope lenses, cinema projectors, catalytic converters in cars, aircraft engines, X-ray and MRI systems, television and computer screens, etc. We learn along with Tae Eul that KOC’s Gross Domestic Product ranking is fourth in their world because of their export of rare earth metals. This suggests that relative to other countries, KOC has bigger deposits and mines more rare earth elements.
And this is why we have to carefully watch this drama for clues. Scenes that some viewers may consider just filling time provide important information that will come into play later.
Another thing I have noticed about scenes that to some may seem purposeless: many contain references to time in their dialogue. They can unveil the timeline if clues are heeded. Some of the time clues flash by fast, and others may fly over our heads but be well understood by those who speak and read Korean or understand Korean cultural references. The writer, director and editor of this drama are making viewers work, and that may or may not sit well with the audience.
@Summerwind525, no, you are correct, the flowers he hands to Tae-Eul are nothing like Lycoris radiata, so they shouldn’t have come from the dream-land.
@Alxmar97, “LG can perfectly disappear (physically die) while still “living” in some sort of other dimension. LG is eternal but not immortal, I believe.” This resembles the King Arthur legend, where he is mortally wounded or dies and is brought to a magical place, but may return in the future when needed.
@Fern Holy cow, I’m just reading about King Arthur’s death and you mentioned one of the versions! Could Avalon be No Man’s Land in this case? The other version is that both Mordred and Arthur died in the battle. I wonder which ending is in the book Yoyo girl is reading 🤔
@welmaris Thanks for the recap on LG’s military skills. That’s definitely something to worry about. Though he seemed pretty good when fighting the gansters. He used his whip that time. Hopefully, he’s good with the sword,too.
Yeah @WEchanteur i get what you mean by ‘The problems are also related to choices of structure, chronological order…‘ Since the genre is time travel, good structure would balance out messy timeline. I think this show suffers more from continuity error/bad editing in the first few episodes like you’ve mentioned. Quite surprised coming from a show with such production scale.
One thing i like though is how the script prepares and eases us into connected scenes so it doesn’t feel so out of the blue when the rather important scene happens.
Few recent instances that brought impact; Eps 7- SJ and JTE at the shooting range. Compares to SJ, she sucks at quick firing at long range. But we know later on that she’s good at shooting short range(at the arcade Lol). I’m not sure whether this will feed future scene..
Eps 9- the locker room scene where LG ordered ES to bring JY’s laptop with him and ES just nodded which resulted LG raising his voice a few notches ‘Yes, your Majesty’ showing ES what and how he supposed to say it. It prepares us for the scene where LG roars at LL.
Eps 10- when Lady Noh asked PM Koo whether LG has shed a tear in front of her when the question of what can crush the King’s heart was being asked. Then we saw his teardrop during the farewell scene, something must have had crushed him whether from pure desolations or it simply to answer the question- JTE is the one that can crush LG.
@Tomato101 yeah it achieved the pensive mood but time and again LG never fail to appear when she called out his name(directly or indirectly)
Hi Everyone, I just realised that I’m not getting any alerts to this post, even when I tick the checkboxes below, therefore I apologise if I’ve not replied to you.
@Welmaris, I agree. It struck me that LG was going about it wrong, and that he’d never thought it through. He had not taken into account sufficiently that LL had 25 years head-start over him. He had not investigated and not got sufficient intelligence. Worst of all, he went it alone, not even having his first Unbreakable Sword, Yeong, with him. It was pretty naive, thinking that he only needed to catch LL at the exit of the portal with his palace guards, and that catching LL in public, plus a few traitors, would end the matter. He must have really thought that he’d be back with TE within a few weeks after he dealt with LL, and that they’d have a back and forth traveling relationship. He had asked her to wait for him and to not tell him to go or to not come.
It was a strange blunder to me that he should want the public to know he’d be in Haeundae, so that there would be crowds of cheering bystanders, in the midst of a possible shoot out. All his palace guards carried guns after all!!! What was the purpose of making the ‘arrest’ a spectacle for the masses? He engineered the worst case of slowing down how to identify an enemy by needing to scan a hundred other faces.
And the thing that took the cake for me, not only did he run off ahead of his backup and protection, he rode into the fray on a horse, in complete view, without a bullet proof vest (I believe), a perfect target for any sniper, while he is forced to slow down and scan faces for LL. On this score, I shake my head at LG and head towards Cynical Island.
LG is certainly not good at combat and more sophisticated strategising. Actually PM Koo might be better in that area, since she calls in help from those with more resources than herself, and has used people and situations to further her own rise to power. At least she does not do everything only by herself. LG however was born into his position, and did not have to do more than give his King’s Orders. In some ways it was pretty childlike. He picked up a sword, he was not ready for, that was too heavy for him, and instead of dealing a death blow, he caused greater chaos in space (and time) and certain trouble for his friends (Prince Buyeong) and himself.
I hope he does choose to gather a team around himself to advise and support him in KOC. It’s likely, however, that he’ll not want to ruin the lives of his friends and ends up eternal and alone. 😞
On the ending scene, some points about Lee Gon:
The scene fits perfectly cause (as Tomato101 said) it’d make sense he’s coming from the Prince’s funeral but it’s good the writer/director assume we’re more clever than that. (Problem is I think sometimes they overstate how clever are we and don’t give us enough info)
*”I love you and I am deeply in love with you”. Why telling her that and then disappear? That’s just gonna hurt her more, make her miss him more. Was he selfish?
*The disappearing. I tend to believe time stopped in the middle of the kiss and he left. Is LL still alive in his future? That’s why he has to go?
*His tears. Earlier Lady Noh asked PM “Has His Majesty ever shed tears in front of you? Even only once? That’s why I refuse to help you”. It seems LG is not a guy who cries easily. For all we know, he hasn’t cried since that time when he finished mourning his father. And these “new” tears also looked like mourning.
*” I’m walking through the frozen moments in time”. It basically confirms he’s a time traveler. Now this should give us hope, right? If he can time travel, he can always fix the mistakes in the past and get the best outcome, right?
But then, why is he so somber? Did he find out he cannot change the future?
—
@Alxmar97.. great observations. I especially love what you wrote about Lee Gon vanishing in the middle of the kiss. It was as spooky as him appearing out of nowhere.
Btw, why is no one talking about that preview? Does JTE really die? I see that there is blood all over her hand and she calls Lee Gon almost as if knowing that he will not be able to reach her?
I really hate this type of story. Again KES is following the path of Goblin. I really hope JTE does not die and Lee Gon can save her. :/
Identity Ironies
I have this thing for poor suffering/traumatised kids, who grow up OK and really do their best to be fine. Last time I thought of LG, now I’m thinking of SJ.
I was heartily amused (I did mention this elsewhere) and then saddened that Shin Jae took issue with Lee Gon (Ep 1 or 2) for having no identity, when LG was perfectly clear about who he was, but had no way to prove it in ROK. The irony is, it is Shin Jae who is the one whose identity is unknown. It is he who was troubled, thinking that he was living under a false identity, and it was LG who gave him part of his true identiy when he accepted (welcomed) him as a subject of the KOC.
In the end Shin Jae knew LG’s name but did not know his own.
The scene that tugged most at my heartstrings was the TE, SJ scene.
Ep 10 49:11 SJ to TE at the Columbarium : “You know why I became a cop? I hoped that I’d have a gun in my hand when someone asked me to identify myself. So that I can either shoot myself or him. (It was such an unbearable agony, the very thought of trying to figure out who he was, that it made him consider dying easier, or shutting up the questioner).
TE: “What do you mean? Who are you?”
SJ: “The day when Eun Seob was not the Eun Seob we know, I called the name of the man who claimed he was a King.”
TE: “His name? You mean that unidentified man told you his name?”
SJ: “No. I just called his name The name that I remembered. ‘Lee Gon’. And I was right.
It was because I was in this world with you. That was the reason why you couldn’t find me anywhere in that world. Because of me, Kang Shin Jae.
That is a fact. But as for whom I am, I’m not sure yet.”
TE: (Tearfully) “You were here. You were here all along.”
SJ: “But am I supposed to be here? Will you welcome me?” (TE, overwhelmed, has no words and hugs SJ tightly)
Shin Jae identified LG, but remained unidentified and lost himself. LG was willing to welcome SJ into his world, and TE, into hers.
This reflects the situations in which ‘Alice’ finds herself in her adventures. Her identity is mistaken (as the maid Mary Anne in ‘Wonderland’, she forgets for a while that she’s human and even her own name, in the ‘Looking Glass’ land, and she is accused of not existing because she’s a figment of the Red King’s dream.
Poor Shin Jae had all that happen to him in a very long dream that was a reality and a memory. What I want for him? That he meets his real mother and forgives.
Hello everyone. I am a big time k-drama theory lurker, but this show has brought me out here to speculate with you all.
That ending scene! LG’s words are intriguing – to me, it seems like he is being true to his prior behavior (like when he first ate with TE, he’s making sure to say his last words in case he dies or something like that). I’m still optimistic that, even if TE is harmed in the future, the story is giving hints that LG has a path/plan to save her.
One thing that I wished was clearer in that scene was whether LG’s advice to “not worry too much” comes from future LG (i.e., did future LG say it during the kissing scene and we just didn’t see that part, or was this something LG told TE at some other point?). If future LG said the words, then he knows, at the very least, they will meet again in this LG’s past (TE’s future) and is easing her worries beforehand. But if this voiceover comes from another time, then his goodbye weighs more heavily. That should have been a freebie to us – knowing whether that voiceover was future LG’s or another LG’s. I am enjoying this show, but I wish things like this were clearer.
I rewatched the earlier episodes with time travel in mind – some thoughts:
– LG notices two “figures” in Ep. 1 at the racetrack. The first “figure” that LG sees is a mere blur across the screen, but I detect a sort of faded blue/black tint to the figure. To me, it could be the grey-blue outfit that future LG is wearing at the end of Ep. 10, and that first shows up when he’s holding the sword and looking battle-ready in Ep. 1. This could be future LG as the savior.
– The second “figure” that LG sees in the racetrack and lures him to the gates is the bunny hood figure (Luna would be our best guess for who this is at this point). However, how exactly Luna would have made it into the compound is a mystery. Plus, the fact that Luna has now given up her hoodie to the yo-yo boy raises interesting time travel possibilities. It means the hoodie can be passed down to others – including TE. It’s possible TE was actually subbing for Luna in parts of the first episode. That is to say, the real Luna shows up at the rowing meet while she is on the run – but it’s actually future TE in a hand-me-down version of the hoodie that “reveals” herself to LG, first in the rowing meet itself (where she disappears seemingly behind a mirror) and then later in the race track luring him. Maybe future TE and future LG are actually working together at the start of Ep. 1.
– I think it’s possible that future LG has revealed himself to Lady Noh. Just like TE could see something was off about future LG, Lady Noh would have also seen it. Her demeanor in Ep 10 was intriguing, and future LG appearing when other LG was world-jumping would have helped her make sure the guards were there to greet LG in the bamboo forest.
– It might have been nothing – but Lady Noh was putting what looked like a yellow talisman into the seams of a light blue jacket when LG comes back in Ep. 10. That struck me as odd – dunno why. LG himself doesn’t wear light blue in episodes 9-10 (or ever?), but Kingdom Nari does, and the soldiers that flank LG when he comes out of the plane while mourning his uncle wear this color. It might be insignificant, but what Lady Noh was doing seemed off to me, like she knew of future events.
If even one of my above observations is proven I’d be happy haha – it still feels like the story could go in plenty of directions.
do you guys already count the timeline whenever our lovebirds reunites? if not yet, then maybe I will try to do it today. it makes me very curious because everytime they did it, they always shed tears and said “it took you a while” or something like that. so, I really want to know.. how long is it?
@Table122000: “I believe the Bookstore owner used to be the Captain of the Royal Guards.” I don’t think so. The traitors joining Lee Lim during the regicide were wearing cassocks like the ones worn by men at Busan Cathedral. We saw LG greeting men in those cassocks after he attended the funeral. And now we’ve learned that Lee Lim also attended that funeral without calling attention to himself. He must have had an informant at Busan Cathedral alert him to the funeral of the father of Lee Gon’s former commanding officer, which would likely draw Lee Gon to that location. (With Lee Lim also showing up in the photo at the rowing competition, it appears he has been staking out Lee Gon.)
@Growing Beautifully (GB), the bookstore seen in the 2022 video is the same as the one used by LL and his minions. It has the same street address: 20. But the 2022 version is cleaned up (flowers instead of stacks of books outside) and has a different name. If the Royal Guard is looking for it by the 2022 name, they won’t find it in 2019/20.
Also, I’m with you in deeply disliking PM Koo’s lack of moral underpinnings. She must’ve fallen far from the tree, because her mom seems so nice. PM Koo makes declarations that are downright Machiavellian, but with a smile on her face. I’m glad LG and HCL Noh are able to see through her, but her tactical skills are superior to LG’s, and I fear she’s going to outwit him at some point.
@Tomato101, I was also wrung out emotionally by the end of ep. 10 and needed a break. As for the multitude of red balloons that appeared in Dimension 0_1, my first thought was that they’d sprouted from the seeds TE had sown. Crazy, I know… And I believe once Lee Gon learned Lee Lim hadn’t been captured at the bamboo forest portal, he knew where he’d find Lee Lim because he’d created a setup. Lee Gon planned the Moonlight Walk with the King on his own. The only ones who knew about it were in the Royal Media Relations Office, and they were waiting on his okay to release it to the public because he wanted to invite someone. I’m sure the one he intended to invite was Lee Lim, who would find out about it through his informants. I have my suspicions about the guy working in Media Relations who says he’s JY’s uncle.
@mychoiyoung: The opening scene in ep. 1 with bloody Lee Lim being interrogated in 2020 is noteworthy because TE keeps asking him, “Did you kill your brother?” She’s asking about the regicide in 1994. If Lee Lim had just killed Lee Gon, I’d think she’d be trying to draw out his confession by asking, “Did you kill your nephew, King Lee Gon?”
@PikaLuna, Sin Jae’s beautiful dream is Tae Eul. He’s in love with her, or at least crushing hard on her. She, however, considers him a brother, so for him the chance of winning her woman’s heart is a dream.
@Fern, I think you’re right that the flowers Lee Gon gives Tae Eul are blue phlox. They do grow wild in Korea, blooming in May. They signal the change of season from spring to summer.
@aeiou, the clue that Lee Gon knows Lee Lim is in ROK is that the phone call goes through. There isn’t phone service between the parallel worlds, which is why TE gets a ROK phone for LG. Just the fact that the burner cell rings means that the person calling is in ROK. But there had been time stop shown. We see it happen when Eun Sup’s military discharge is being celebrated at the restaurant; at the same time, back at the hotel we see it happen as Lee Gon is washing his hands. Lee Gon is wearing the same shirt when he’s at the sink as he is when standing and looking at the phone he confiscated from the traitor he captured. He’s waiting for Lee Lim’s call to confirm that Lee Lim has moved from KOC to ROK. He gets his confirmation when the phone rings.
The Fate – LL Conversation
KES certainly likes to do mash ups. Not only do we have 2 of Alice’s adventures, we also have Arthur’s. Add to that the legend of the Manpaksikjeok and The Four Tiger Sword. Are we all biting off more than we can chew? 😅 😜
Ep 10 56:56 [Oh dear is Fate a girl who’s dressed like a boy? More identity confusion!!] (Fate/Girl is reading King Arthur while wearing the rabbit jacket. It is raining, and I feel our commenters are right in associating rain and the significance of this, with LL who continually needs an umbrella. Fate looks up at LL and sees the blood and the fiery roots on LL’s face.)
57:17 LL to Fate: “Why aren’t you surprised?” (I’m surprised that LL is curious enough to stop and ask. Why bother with a child in the pouring rain?)
Fate: “Because I’m a curious person. I don’t like seeing blood. Did you fight?”
LL: “I am in the middle of a fight. I still have a long way to go.
What are you reading?” (I’m even more intrigued by the fact that LL enters into conversation with Fate and is curious about what Fate is reading than anything else!!!)
Fate: “King Arthur. It’s a story about a man with noble blood drawing a sword and becoming king.”
LL: “Only those with noble blood can become king? That’s a terrible story. Forget the noble blood. The sword must be drawn by those who know how to use it. (LG did not know how to use it as a child, and he made a bad strike against LL as an adult)
Fate: “What if a villain draws the sword? Someone who is not just?”
LL: “Justice doesn’t make the sword. The sword decides what justice is.” (LL identifies himself as the sword who redefines justice. There is no villain for LL, only the one who has the will to make use of the Flute and the Sword to maximize self. It was unjust that his brother had been given the rights to all the opportunities and had wasted them, while he, LL was denied the rights when he would have done justice by the Flute and the Sword. Thus he scoffed at his brother.)
Fate: “It seems that the things in your world keep changing. (An obscure reference to how cracks are appearing in LL’s plans – set into motion by Fate?)
Anyway, good bye. I want to know how this story ends.” (Fate looks down at her book. Never has LL been so totally dismissed. LOL)
He looks thoughtful and stays still for a while.
Fate dismisses LL as just another cog in the wheel of history, or rather she dismisses LL to his own devices which will re-write the story of Arthur/LG. Fate wants to see how the fight that LL mentions plays out with the balance in the universes, now that the ‘villain’ draws the sword that he purports to know how to use.
I wonder at the significance of this longish scene. Might it be only to draw once again the parallels with the Arthurian legend? I note that Fate has spoken with 3 main players in the game but has not yet directly engaged with LG. Instead she has placed the pieces and the sword (swords as well if we include the Unbreakable Ones) near LG and let him decide his destiny.
Scene that seems purposeless, just filling time.
In some dramas, there are fillers, but not in TKEM.
Every scene has a purpose, an information to deliver, nothing is useless.
However, that doesn’t mean it’s attached to useful or interesting plots.
What I don’t like is their disconnected, boring side.
You can put that in parallel with a drama that tells a story focused on the main plot and its characters. Again, the information is delivered, but incorporated into the action. So the drama is more hectic, and minimizes disgression.
Ooopps, the first half of my comment was forgotten.
It was this:
@Welmaris
Thank you for your analysis of LG’s military behavior.
It’s a good example to show if the character is coherent.
Sometimes you have to make reasonable deviations when the plot demands it.
I read a commentary saying: it is a disastrous strategic choice to put the leader of the country in the front line, at the risk of being killed by the enemy.
I cannot comment further on episodes 7 to 10 because I have not reviewed the episodes.
@Aeiou
I wrote the analysis I told you about, about how the drama’s confusing, and “Example, Timestop episode 3”.
But my commentary’s stuck for now. I’m waiting for Packmule3 to unblock it, if the comment is not a problem.
I posted this here, because this article contains information about timestop:
http://bitchesoverdramas.com/2020/05/14/the-king-number-theory-for-bitches-part-2/
Connected scenes.
Yes, it shows that the screenwriter is inspired. The scenes you quote are good because it’s easy to remember the first part of the correlation. So, the goal is reached during the second part.
I don’t know how the writer writes that.
– She comes up with the idea in the first part, and remember what she has to write later in the second part.
– She writes the second part, and then reworks a scene already written to incorporate the correlation.
– The idea is disconnected from the writing and is noted during the structure of the episode. Then she looks for scenes to insert the idea.
– Etc…
I’d like to know, but too bad, it’s impossible. T T
@GB I think the scene’s intention is merely for us to get to know more about Fate, for instance:
1. She’s curious.
2. She doesn’t like blood.
3. She cares about justice.
If she could choose, she’d be on LG’s side. But I suppose she has to be impartial since her job is to keep the balance and that duty may require to mess up LG’s plan/happiness.
My REALLY crazy theory: Have you guys seen Dragon Ball GT’s ending? So basically they abused of the power of the dragon balls to solve all their problems and the dragon is not happy about that. In the last fight, Goku basically offers his mortal existence in exchange for a last wish, which is to bring back to life the people who died during the fight. Then the dragon appears and tells Goku it’s time to go. He absorbes the balls into his body (becoming some sort of guardian of the balls, sort of a god) and goes with the dragon, but not without stopping in some places to say goodbye to some of his friends. I still cry every time I watch it.
Here is the crazy theory:
Goku is LG.
The Dragon is Fate.
The battle: LG vs LL.
The balls: The portals.
So LG defeats LL, recovers the other half of the flute but loses precious people for him along the way (TE specially). He goes before Fate and offers him a deal.
He offers his mortal existence in exchange for TE’s life. Why would Fate take the deal? Well, for once, she’s curious so, at the very least, she’ll give it a thought. Also, LG is partially to blame for the abuse of the portals by LL (I read somewhere LG cutting the flute in half may have opened them and I agree)so it’s only just that LG should be the one to pay the price and not TE. Additionally, since she doesn’t like blood, she would have no problem with exchanging the bloody death of TE (Yeah, I’m sure it’s gonna be bloody) with the clean and spiritual death of LG. Finally, LG’s physical death could help her maintain the balance of the universe.
So she takes the deal. Then LG asks Fate to let him say goodbye to a TE from the past (and that’s the ending scene of episode 10). LG becomes the god protector of the flute, hence not allowing anybody to use it to open the portals again and leaves the physical world, heading to the land of no man, where he’ll be the eternal king of solitude.
I know it’s crazy and it probably won’t happen but I still wanted to share it with you cause it’s been on my mind since yesterday. It’d be pretty dope if KES actually watched Dragon Ball XD XD.
(Alice in Wonderland, Through the Looking Glass, King Arthur and now, Dragon Ball. The most ambitious crossover in human history XD)
@Alxmar97
About KES watching Dragon Ball GT.
Why not ?
Song Jae-Jung play Pokemon-Go. 🙂
@WEnchanteur Really? Well, you’ve raised my hopes from 0 to 1%…still a long shot 😂 GT’s ending is nostalgic but beautiful 😭😭
@Alxmar97
“I think we have to differentiate eternity from immortality. LG can perfectly disappear (physically die) while still “living” in some sort of other dimension. LG is eternal but not immortal, I believe.”
I was not thinking of them as two different concepts. I am one of those people who thinks that if you exist (irrespective of the dimension) then you are not dead. And I will again say what I said earlier: I am ok with anyone dying but it needs to be done right (consistent with what the story demands). I have my tissues in place but make me cry because of a majestic move.
Also, a crazy thought about episode 11 preview: what if JTE gets lost in between 0 and 1 — thus her plea for help? After all that place can change depending upon (?? i dont know — moods/dreams??)
I like female cop characters so am really inquisitive as to what has caused her to break down. Given that LG is in such a fix, I am not sure if she would really call him unless… — which is why I keep thinking what if it is a dream sequence.
@Welmaris and @GB
I had to ask this: Do you think that LG is not a good strategist? Would his need to confront his uncle not stem from his own personal vendetta (thus, him being blinded by emotions, just this once? — he is young and hot headed)?
I am asking this because:
– I thought the naval officer (at the funeral) spoke about LG’s direct combat skills. (I might have got that wrong)
– There is no strategist with him in Corea and as of now I am not sure if the flowcharts drawn by our crime unit buddies can really make JTE/SJ good at strategy.
– I for one thought being good at mathematics would mean being good at mind games (thus strategy).
However, if that is not the case then a doom/gloom scenario for the King is justified. History has shown that kind kings do not stay in power for long. Also, the drama would then only rely on fate/brawn and there will be no real chess match.
I am not good at building his character map simply because to me till episode 7, he has been a suave, simple but intelligent charmer. I did not read much into his Japan/Korea show off (my take was jingoism though I read someone’s comment here that it shows his need for direct combat… something on those lines) but assumed that we would see colours to him in time. I took this combat as a sign of how he has not spent time on understanding his opponent beyond the need to (avenge and) know that the man who killed his father and tried to throttle him to death was alive and should be captured. And the drama was following the path of making us feel for him by hitting him hard on all counts (losing out to LR, incurring 3 causalities, losing someone who helped share his responsibility+who would have helped him gain time to investigate) and making him a sad figure who would rise like a Phoenix.
Would love to get your reading of his character, simply because I enjoy your takes 🙂 . And also help me set my expectations because if the fight against LR will simply be fought by brawn and luck then… I would be 🙁
Why does the LR speak about a long battle ahead when he speaks to fate? Also, from the beginning (it has been implied that) he has suspected his nephew of being capable of spoiling his plans.
I don’t doubt that LG’s wrong move of not being diplomatic about his disinterest in the PM will haunt him, just because he might not trust her but he (and the viewer) doesn’t know the extent to which she is ready to bend to cater to her ambition. Will she be killed in the car crash (mom’s dream) when she disagrees with LR to be replaced by her lookalike or will her lookalike not feature at all beyond the newspaper clipping?
Also, JY’s dialogue: What do you plan to do once LR is caught (or dealt with)? to JTE shows us that he (and the King’s team) have not realized how extensive LR’s plan is.
I really need to stop thinking about this plot! 😀
@Fern, not 100% accurate but I did a reverse image search, the result was delphinium grandiflorum summer blues.
@Alxmar97 just read your crazy theory 😀
At this point I would say anything can happen (depending upon whether the ending is pre-planned or subject to change 😀 ). Your take sounds romantic and very Arthurian-fable-types.
I am more into the process so I want to see the uncle and the nephew clash. The process for me will define the end. Thus, my big post and question about strategy (above).
If I might add, for now I would like to think of excalibur only as an anecdote to the flute myth/legend/story defined in episode 1 (the Fate Lune meeting episode — I think I saw excalibur written on the book not king Arthur).
Though, I love reading fantasy so am searching up everything that everyone keeps throwing as a reference.
Happy monday 🙂
With regard to flowers presented I found this: https://www.instagram.com/p/CASD_6FJTib/?igshid=x9nti8noiz3d
Not my profile and I couldn’t read the caption. am not good with plant names but flowers look similar to what JTE was gifted 🙂
@No one that’s a delphinium, same with the result I get from a reverse image search.
@Growing Beautifully (GB) Thank you for your beautiful analysis of SJ, I enjoyed it very much. SJ is my favorite character in this drama. I think the actor really did a good job of showing how he tried hard to hide his not fit and out of place.
The scene:”It was because I was in this world with you.” was heartbreaking.
Dear Ladies and Gentleman, as always it is a pleasure to read you. Regrettably I am writing you at 3:00 AM so I am a littlte bit drowsy, so please forgive me for expressing my point of view without responding directly to the original posters.
1.- Prince Buyeong keeping the ring is similar to child Lee Gon’s relationship with both the whip and more directly, to Tae-Eul’s old ID. It is an answer, but while Gon also got a tool to get the solution (the whip with the flute headjoint), prince Buyeong just gave an answer but also an enigma. A family trait for both of them is to be obsessive and detail-oriented people who keeps symbols close to them.
2.- Loved when Eun-Sup got the right answer to Yeong´s password and it happened to be a numerical one: that Yeong considered himself as one of the zeros that are behind (giving value) him. So it made Gon really mad that his Yeong (who has been with him since childhood) could mimic his own reasoning, that his mimicking could not be foreseen by him, and he also got unnerved that this clownish Eun-Sup was indeed a version of his best friend.
3.- I think that the Gon we saw in front of Tae-Eul was the one coming from the Prince’s funeral. It is economy of storytelling and my guess is that they have ended the buildup phase and are entering the action – second act part.
4.- Loved the way Fate trolled Lee Rim. Basically rejected him and his worldview in a very sophisticated way… but makes me wonder which version of King Arthur is he reading and how that one ends. My guess is that if it is a youngster’s book it will have a happy ending full of adventures and life lessons for their main characters.
Societies’ endurance depends very much on their stability. That is why institutions are so important. Lee Rim wants power but even if he gets what he craves there will be a myriad of people trying to topple him, for he is eroding the very same institutions that would keep him in power and the kingdom at peace, as in keeping the social contract. That is why the iscription in the Tiger Sword is so relevant.
5.- PM conversation with Green Dragon Lady Noh is really interesting. PM wants to crush his heart, as in to have him in her debt and have power over him. Lady Noh is looking for someone that connects with him and really sees him as an end by himself, not just like other step in her career.
Lee Rim is an interesting character, and his ROK image is a big hint into him: a man riled in poliomyelitis, as in an absolutely powerless being. Then Lee Rim is a power freak. PM Koo needs to have it all and is ambitious as hell?, her ROK counterpart seems to be the happy go lucky girl that enjoys simple pleasures like having a cool drink while in comfortable clothes at home and has a great time going to a baseball game: simple pleasures. For me the ROK characters are more psychological balances of their counterparts than shadows or mirror images.
Basically those are my points. Hope to read you soon.
@no one @misssupercyan yeap looks like it delphinium and light blue ones mean youth and renewal, other sites write “open heart and ardent attachment and convey a feeling of lightness and levity”. but a flower has so many meanings depending on how you see it.
https://treesymbolism.com/delphinium-flower-meaning.html has a lot more on the meanings that seem suitable for their situation at that time.
Oh I bet she knows. Based on experience, we always know, right?.
It is just that we either acknowledge and encourage it OR we ignore cos we are not ready or not interested. To me, TE has always regarded SJ as a brother. So encouraging the crush will not accomplish anything.
LR does not have to be captured in Corea cos for all intents and purposes he is already dead. According to their press release, only his followers have emerged for whatever reasons.
And I think that is precisely what LR wants to achieve – to show Corea that he is alive & well and still young. As LG said, near immortal. That is the chaos he would like to promote. That is the chaos that he would like to use so all the people in Corea would worship him instead of the current Monarch. That is the power he would like to lure the citizenship with. That alone will depose LG.
LR just needs to show himself as near immortal, expose the lie that the previous Prince helped create. Lee Gon becomes Lee Gone, as one meme said.
I think LG will have more chances of success if he battles it out in Korea, where LR is an unknown and he has a team he can rely on. There are considerable potential collateral damage in Corea that the King has to consider & avoid.
And he has a ready team to support him in Korea. That’s what am thinking, if am being practical & tactical.
But this is a fairy tale. I suppose SHOW will go dramatic and make this a battle royale between LG & LR in the bamboo forest
@Fern, I also think the flowers LG gave to TE is phlox. Looks very similar to this, right?
https://www.pinterest.ph/pin/82753711875899338/
LR dismissing Fate/yo-yo girl and her interest in Arthur reminds me of Valdemort when he dismissed the story of the 3 brothers. To quote JK Rowlings –
As opposed to LG who believes in fairy tales, loves Alice in Wonderland, respects innocence, children and people.
Perhaps in being so focus on power and immortality and being dismissive of all these things of value will lead to his demise.
Perhaps also, that’s what Fate/yo-yo girl meant when she said “things are changing in your world.” . That whatever he had started successfully is starting to collapse.
PS; LOL’ed when Fate just dismissed him!
@no one and @misssupercyan, hats off to you both. This is the closest match so far. Plant detectives – 🏆
@Alxmar97 LOL Thanks for adding Dragon Ball to the mash-up. It actually sounds plausible somehow!! I was one of those who opined that if not for LG cutting the flute, the connection between the worlds would not have opened up. I’m all up for some bloodless death now LOL. Preview had TE looking kind of bloody, so something cleaner would be good.
@No one About the battle strategy against LL… I feel that to begin with, LG failed to plan properly and think it through. He seems to have gone into high drama mode, making a grand entrance on his white horse and calling on the public’s attention, which in effect gave him a mass audience to his taking down the greatest traitor of their time. It was to be some grand gesture of revenge and righteousness, a right royal public arrest, with no room for any to consider LL innocent.
The naval officer said he is NOT good in combat, but allowed that he could come back as Naval Lieutenant. As the King, he is accorded the position of Commander in Chief.
LG needs to get a team to help him, the way the police in ROK have a team and even Koo has help. He needs more heads to help him think how to take LL down. But it looks that he may choose to go it alone because he thinks he can’t convince others to believe him.
Being good at Maths, may mean being good at logic and calculation. It does not preclude him being creative as well. I believe artsy, creative people make pretty good mind game players and chess players. Chess is a great strategy game. I haven’t researched if the good chess players are mainly arty or sciencey types though.
Show has only given us a bit about LG’s character where fighting is concerned. It is the same as what he did here with LL, he goes for the big show of “I am the King – do you dare challenge me?” Japan backed down… but not every enemy is like Japan. Aside from this, he’s never been properly tried in real combat. He is in the position where he gives high level orders with the troops already placed correctly by their immediate commanders.
So I agree with @Welmaris. He seems to have gone in with his emotions/heart instead of his head. At the moment he lacks a strategy that assures success. But this can be changed if he moves from reacting emotionally, and preferably if he gets help. So far in his years trying to solve the puzzle of who TE might be, we find that he has done it alone. I too hope that if he cannot get help in KOC, his ROK friends can support him. I just don’t know if he’ll endanger them.
One basic thing he can still do, from the view of practical good sense (I speak as a lay person in the matter who did not read The Art of War) is to know the enemy and the latter’s strength. LG may only have had a child’s memory and knowledge of LL, plus whatever was in the textbooks. I don’t know that HCL Noh or Prince Buyeong would have told him much about the killer of his father. He should have done his homework first and worked out a way to bring LL down without it backfiring on him the way it has done in Ep 10.
I know I too liked the image of him riding up determined to take down his arch enemy in ‘flames and glory’. However we can see why it will not work that way with a wily old man who’s planned for decades, and who has his chess pieces in place, to be activated at the right time.
@fern I deserve no credit for that. I just did lots of insta searching to see what was going around in King circles. Haven’t tried any Sofia ages search methods like @misssupercyan or @grace 🙂
@Gb thank you. Always a pleasure to read (and mull over) your words.
@FGB4877 3am thoughts are coherent and definitely worth sharing 👍🏾
I bet PM Koo have noted the packet of kimchi from ROK that Eunsop brought over. 😀 Lucky our King was quick to turn it the other way.
So she’s met Luna and TE, I’m sure she’s seen the change in Yeong and of course her doppelgänger. Also what her Mom told her too about LL’s lookalike.
I wish PM Koo wasn’t quite so smart. I still don’t know who the slick grey-haired man is who is often with her, even in governmental meetings. Her father or a mentor?
Another person I wonder about is LG’s mother. Perhaps it’s not important, but I’m curious.
@No one, I thought that you and the others might have used the plant identifier app like Director Ju in Hospital Playlist. I may subscribe. 😂
It’s probably not even significant beyond being ‘the thought that counts.’
Same @Fern, I’m curious about PM’s Mom too. The only time we saw her were at the funeral scenes of young LG, when PM visited her at her house which showed the umbrella, then when LL picked up the umbrella and now at PM’s house.
I don’t know about that man too that’s with her in the government meetings.
A propos to not much except that my daughter is at home studying Eng. Lit. The BBC has coincidentally offered a home learning segment about Shakespeare focused on Kings and Succession. Much of MacBeth’s soliloquy weighing whether to kill or not reminds me of Lee Lim. It ends with this:
“I have no spur
To prick the sides of my intent, but only
Vaulting ambition, which o’erleaps itself
And falls on the other.”
It’s more LG’s KoC mother that I wonder about, @agdr03. He *says* he has no interest in the RoK mother-double. It may not be entirely true. He seemed very struck when Tae-Eul said that the person she was looking for in the KoC was her mother’s double so she could see her face again after so many years. Like I said, it’s possibly irrelevant to anything but I was curious about what happened to her.
Sorry @Fern, I got dyslexic 😱😂 My bad.
It is interesting that he didn’t want to meet his supposed Mom in ROK. The fact that she’s alive should pick his interest but he said no. Yeah there was nothing mentioned about her in KOC.
@agdr03, -Just feeling a bit sentimental, being a mother. 😂
@Fern, that white-haired man is likely her chief of staff or a personal advisor. He handles all her shady dealings, from the blackmail photos to setting up her meeting with the Ex. I think LG is right not to ask for help from PM Koo, he and both lady Noh clearly distrust her from day one, they have judged her as someone who is only loyal to herself and will leverage the information for her personal gain. Prince Buyeong also made a reference about hard to truly break the class barrier in his conversation with PM Koo in episode 3. Nobody in LG’s royal court seems to like her because of her unconcealed thirst for power.
There are only two people (excluding TE) that he would trust with the parallel world secret, JY and lady Noh. JY already entrusted with the task of helping TE with the investigation and killing LL in ROK. Lady Noh in her cryptic conversation indicates she knows. Although LG would like to trust Prince Buyeong for sentimental reasons, his intellect told he to be cautious. As a king without direct heir and PB being the next in line for throne, they can never have a fully trusting relationship. In episode 10, when LG went to PB’s residence to have the talk, he walked in with a group of men (they are the male members of the royal house) pleading with PB to do something. PB asked LG not to misunderstand because the royal house members are looking to PB for leadership and not LG. PB scolded them that the head of house is LG , not him. I don’t think LG has many options regarding asking for help in ROK.
I know what you mean. 😉 I think that word will never leave us especially because we’re a mother.
Just watched that hug again of LG and TE when he showed up unexpectedly in her world. That hug was so tight I had a tear when I first saw it. Same with the last scene.
I just noticed the red balloon, one with Eunsop and the one that TE saw in the bamboo forest.
The balloon is roaming around. Reminds me a bit of ‘No Face’ in ‘Spirited Away’ in that sense.
True, no face. 😊 I should watch Spirited Away again since it’s on Netflix. Thanks @Fern.
@Fern, @no one No special apps used. I’ve used google image, faster than searching forums and social medias. I got really curious about the flower as it may signify something. ^_^
@Fern @MissSuperCyan
Thinking about the book of poems that LG brought from Korea and being VO by Ok Nam – it is called Azaleas and I found this blue version of the flower
https://www.flickr.com/photos/14243449@N08/1443711388/in/photostream/
In some variants & angle, the flower resembles the one that TE bought from Corea and planted in her pot & in the place between 0 and 1.
What do you think?
@Fern @agdr03
My guess about the white haired advisor of PM Koo is that he is a ‘retainer’ of her marriage to Choe/Choi of KU Group. He seems to be getting his ‘orders’ not so much from her, but from someone in KU. We do not know the terms of her marriage or divorce, but it looks like she and ex-husband are in an ‘I scratch your back, you scratch mine’ deal. He still has clout and can get things found out and done for her. In return she does not rat on him and gets him out of jail. Their go-between is the white haired guy.
Thanks @GB. That works and also she gave him that ‘he’s here again’ look when she entered her office. I wonder who in KU gives him the order.
More bits and bops about Ep 10.
Red Balloons and Zeroes
Red balloons are popping up. If everything that is repeated is likely significant then the red balloon motif means something. That together with zeroes that also look like balloons or vice versa.
At a guess, LG has been going into No Man’s Land (NMLand) multiple times with balloons and is continuing to experiment. I found it cute that when he came riding out of the Portal, (I still think he went through NMLand to reach the portal) there were so many balloons that he inadvertently brought a balloon out with him. The minute it reached normal air, it floated off.
Then of course, there’s the even cuter image of Eun Seob coming out of the portal behind LG holding a balloon by it’s string, in a very diffident manner.
This scene of ES and balloon makes me more certain that NMLand is the space between the entrance and the exit portals. Happening to grab a balloon along the way sounds just like ES’s style. If NMLand was not in the space between the worlds, ES would not have had a balloon, because there was no reason for ES to have passed through a separate space.
Aside: I’d like to know how many minutes hard riding it takes to get across to the other side. If LL walked through his own NMLand (I’m glad to say that we were right in guessing that different parts of the flute opened different routes through the portal) in that slow, deliberate manner of his, he would have spent a far longer time than LG in the land and so remained young.
Also we have a re-emergence of zeroes to make sure that we do not forget them. Chief Park recalls the missing number of the car registration as ‘0’ and Yeong’s password to unlock his laptop has 13 zeroes after his initial.
The Mysterious Knowledge
What does HCL Noh really know? Her words are always so cryptic. Yes, LG is chasing his destiny, but does she really know the details of how or where? She was curious and concerned before, I wonder why the change, when LG wanted to tell her everything and she did not need to hear anything more from him. I know @pkml3 has a theory that if there’s a looping in time there’ll be residual memory, and if it’s a dream, HCL Noh is in on things ie she’s definitely not the one who’s asleep or dreaming. Wish we knew what she claims to know.
Then there’s the mysterious knowledge of LG. What made him think that just because LL did not emerge from that part of the bamboo forest, that he’d be exiting at Haeundae? Is that a plot hole?
@mychoiyoung 👍🏾 Regarding the book cover!
@Gb with regard to this:
Then there’s the mysterious knowledge of LG. What made him think that just because LL did not emerge from that part of the bamboo forest, that he’d be exiting at Haeundae? Is that a plot hole?
I thought of the Haeundae because of the name of the street where the bookshop was and I read the name of they 20 H… in the 2022 video. So for some reason I did not think of it as a loophole.
Then other people had pointed out that he puts out the social media message that he is meeting someone. He was hoping for a show down to set an example and he knew that LR would get to know and this I connected with his phone conversation. That is just me and I do not know if that is right or not.
Where does the chief go off when he goes to meet solitude? Who will help the King in Corea? Oi oi oi questions and more questions 😀
@GB Had the same question w Haeundae and @Welmaris (thanks!) has provided a plausible reason back in the thread: “Lee Gon planned the Moonlight Walk with the King on his own. The only ones who knew about it were in the Royal Media Relations Office, and they were waiting on his okay to release it to the public because he wanted to invite someone. I’m sure the one he intended to invite was Lee Lim, who would find out about it through his informants. I have my suspicions about the guy working in Media Relations who says he’s JY’s uncle.”
I must say, LG is lucky (or maybe its fated) he has Maximus. Cant imagine running around the portal on foot trying to map the place. Seeing the numerous balloons in the place, some people suggested it might indicate iterations of LG’s time loops (if infinite time loops are really part of the story), but I think it is more to show the time LG spent inside the portal trying to map the place during those 5 hours to find the entrance/opening to LR’s obelisk. I must say, its very showy and risky though, if LR saw the balloons when he uses the portal he’d immediately know what LG is doing from a mile away.
Which leads me to what was also talked about by @No one, @Welmaris and @GB, LG’s character. The show has partially indicated that he is more emotional than thinking in his decisions as a monarch, based on the delivery of LG’s image… I am unsure if this is intentional on the script’s/director’s part, (maybe just to increase the dramatic effect) but he seems to be floundering around. I don’t like that.. it kinda lessens the credibility of his character and this journey that he is embarking to find a “beautiful solution” to a problem. Not sure if all this is intentional and following the script.
Plus I dont see a lot of help for LG with his war with LR.. the good guy “team” seems to be lacking in cohesiveness and info is not optimally moving around so that individual teammates can independently make decision /action from LG. Its like he has to micromanage the situation, (not an ideal trait for a leader… a middle manager, yes, but not the commander in chief.) and he’s spreading himself too thin. Was hoping he can bring everyone up to speed but it doesnt seem to be happening either. Fortunately Old Lady Noh seems like the only one who can actually support him. Still no idea why she seems like aware of LG’s situation, but I saw some theories in another site that mentioned a time travelling LG may have clued her in. We will have to see more of the future episodes to find out….
@No one No need to be sorry about being heartless, as long as the story works, I’m all for it. But I’m just thinking, does it have to be death? (Maybe I’m just in denial lol) I thought having to choose between duty and love was already bad enough (he’s the King and he in practically responsible for two world’s existence now, since its all mixed up, but he’s also doing all these back and forth trips partly to see JTE.) At this moment he’s galloping about between worlds as if he can just pop to his gf ROK LTE(t) anytime without much sacrifice (except maybe time) but not sure yet if its occurred to him that there is a possibility he has to close the doors between worlds. But I do believe he already has enough pressure with regards to duty as a monarch at this point in time in the series. I just hope (maybe wishful thinking) death doesn’t come into play, esp JTE’s, but I do admit a lot of people has pointed out there’s many foreshadowings towards this.
@FGB4877 For your point 3, “I think that the Gon we saw in front of Tae-Eul was the one coming from the Prince’s funeral.” I’ve tried to wrap my head around this possibility, but could you find a way to explain how LG suddenly disappeared after the kiss? I am undecided if it is (a) liberty of artistic/metaphor sense in direction (like directors are showing it FELT like he suddenly disappeared, but he actually said goodbye to JTE physically and walked away in reality,) or (b) he REALLY just suddenly disappeared in an instant) I don’t think the current LG we are seeing can do that, he still needs access to the obelisk to move around worlds. I really am curious to see the next episode to confirm if it is just a storytelling tactic (and I am just assuming its a different/future LG in front of JTE in that ep10 ending)
@GB – Ok Nam had possession of the flute for some time. She kept it for young LG. Is it possible that she ventured into NMLand at least once? But did not venture further to reach Korea? Was that why she & the Prince were nonchalant when discussing LG’s disappearances? Because they have an inkling of NMLand?
Re Haeundae – if not a plot hole, the only explanation I could think of is probably because that was where the body of the dead LR doppelganger was found? LG might have thought along those lines.
I remember a bridge was prominently shown before the body was seen. Am not from Korea but from pictures, it could be Haeundae. But this is a wild guess.
This comment is like a testimony, sincere. The in-depth study of how situations are perceived, and what are the precise details that lead to misunderstanding. If the writer and the director of the drama knew this, they would immediately see the thought processes that their work can lead to. By correcting things, I’m sure the drama would have had better ratings.
I am curious to know if the confusions I noticed were also experienced by others.
When I look at the drama, as soon as something gets stuck, I sometimes have a lot of different guesses that come to mind. Unfortunately, this also reduces concentration for a few moments. Once destabilized, the atmosphere of suspicion and misunderstanding persists and eventually rots the rest of the episode.
In TKEM, the effect is so strong that you end up navigating in a kind of perpetual mist, where you never know where a place is, who a person is, or even when it is. Not to mention all the situations that are parachuted in without any context, or that are assumed to be flashforward without any indication. Situations then abandoned for a long time, we will never know … I think I spotted a scene like that in episode 10, but I’ll have to watch the episode again.
Opps, the link :
http://bitchesoverdramas.com/2020/05/14/the-king-number-theory-for-bitches-part-2/#comments
@mychoiyoung, “it is called Azaleas and I found this blue version of the flower
https://www.flickr.com/photos/14243449@N08/1443711388/in/photostream/”
I had a look. Two photos further on you see the same blue flowers with some orange crocosmia. The blue flowers are on a hydrangea – you can see the leaves – which is a flowering woody bush, so not the same. I think that the photographer mis-identified them. You are correct that the flower heads look very similar and with the link to the book’s title, it would have been perfect.
Could the RING also play a crucial part of the equation to beat LR?
1. The flute – instrument which controls time & portals. LG needs to get the other half so LR will be devoid of power, thereby protecting the two worlds
2. LG already has the 4 Tiger Sword which obviously does not interest LR. But as the message on the sword indicates, it is crucial to vanquish the bad/devil (LR)
3. The ring which LR used to have and he supposedly wanted to retrieve from the Prince.
3a. How did he know the Prince still have the ring?
3b. He got it but still left with the Prince? Now that is strange!
Could this be like in the HP series – (Elder Wand, Invisibility Cloak & Resurrection Stone) – for one to be eternal?
Friday please come sooner. Going crazy here for more theories! LMAO
Dear @Tomato101, we are entering another phase in this history. My guess is that the world building part is over and that the production team will try their best in starting to move the history along now that it has established the biggest part of their world’s rules. Of course I may be sorely mistaken 😉 , so please take my guess with a pinch of salt or two.
Also, Lee Gon is starting to experiment with his half of the flute so has discovered new ways to use it, like extending the duration of the time stops… maybe even discovered how to open portals to different parts (perharps due to mapping the zone between 1 and 0?).
One of the things that differentiate Lee Gon from PM Koo is that he has imagination and is opened to alternate possibilities, so he has the curiosity and the possibility to learn (you can say it is a good by-product of believing in fairy tales). PM Koo in a way is still trapped in FLATLAND (so she will NOT get “A Romance of Many Dimensions” with Lee Gon *no pun intended XD * ).
Someone asked before why it was so magical that young Lee Gon had heard the flute in episode 1. My answer lies (partly) in this lovely song by Loreena McKennitt, The Bonny Swans:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsNJuhBfbPg
Summarizing, just like the instrument in her song, the flute played without human intervention. And besides that it was only heard by a chosen one, Lee Gon.
Another note, this one on flutes: a notched flute is hard to play at first, you have to acquire the embouchure (unlike the Recorder). And judging from the handle of Lee Rim’s umbrella he got the body part of the flute, while Gon got the headjoint. With the headjoint you can make sounds but have limited expressiveness (think of the headjoint – the part that whistles and goes in your lips – of a Recorder). With the body you can’t do a thing, so probably Lee Gon got the most powerful piece of the Manpasikjeok but he still has to master it, while Lee Rim has more time to master his part and created a master plan involving a big amount of people that can hide in plain view quite easily. That insidiousness is the mark of a brilliant antagonist.
Love this Time Travel Parallel Universe Drama!!!
Ok the last few minutes of episode 10 when he gave her flowers and disappears – is him time traveling. I love how episode 10 really touches on the time travel, beginning of the episode he shows up to her passing thought the gate of the parallel universe and at the end of the episode he shows up through time travel and just vanishing afterwards. “Eternal Monarch” stand for either the “manpasikjeok” gives eternal life and that’s why the uncle doesn’t age. Or the uncle travels through time and therefore doesn’t age.
Going back to Episode 1, the uncle did say that he stopped aging. Also, episode 1…… Lee Gon had the same outfit In the beginning of episode 1 and on his last scene in episode 10 when he gave her flowers, which just justifies that he did time travel.
Also, in the previews. She has the same outfit from the video Lee Gon was watching on the laptop when she passed the book store and the boy with the yo-yo. Plus, they can’t find that name of the book store at all, according to the guards. So, the laptop might have also been from the future….
Hi, I’m just a fan of The King and I really enjoyed reading all of the theories as well as the explanations provided by these geniuses here!
At first, I watched the drama with no intention of this being such a headache— more like I wanted to enjoy KGE’s brilliant acting again after Goblin. But, the plot is getting intriguing with lots of symbolism and hidden meanings. Thank you too you all here for interpreting the scenes and the dialogues that other viewers most likely ignored.
Since everyone’s providing theory, I might as well share what I thought of the EP10’s ending. Ah the ending! It successfully made me feel like they both are going to face something really bad later. LG said he never gave her flowers before— from this I guess JTE knew that this LG was not the LG she knew so far. And she quickly realised it, and for me, she was in confusion. Why the future LG came to her and said that he loves her, he is deeply in love with her and even gave her flowers. She could see that something bad will happen either to her or to LG. She also noticed the outfit LG wore which was the Royal uniform, which meant he is going for a war. And I agreed with the opinion of the time stop during the kiss, and LG left (since the kiss was from JTE’s perspective).
And the video dated in 2022. It’s a CCTV camera and I’m kinda believe that this is either the future LG hints for the present LG or the Fate giving hints to present LG that there is a way for him to save JTE. The solution is up to him, to save the Queen.
Also, I found out that the fight between LG and LL resembles the chess game’s rule with Queen protecting the King. LL trying to bring down every precious persons in LG’s life— the same with the opponent during the chess game to bring down every guard that is guarding the King.
And the Queen is the last protective identity before the checkmate.
I will sound like a broken record but I will say this.
I am hoping Friday comes soon 😀
And
That the game of chess (as hinted by many on this blog) is more balanced. As articulated clearly by @Tomato101 I second the opinion that LG looked very flustered and out of his element in episode 10.
Then there is no delegation in his strategy and he is a one man army.
I don’t want him to fall off this pedestal where I imagine the King as calm, kind, just, deserving of his position, courteous, intelligent and strategic who is emotional but Only to an extent. He has an empire to protect and people he loves who will die — so don’t panic. Lead people, plot to win.
He has to be more than a romantic figure. He has to prove to me, the viewer, that he is in his position for more reasons than just being born into the right family. Come on Lee Gon, #fighting!
Else I won’t support the existence of the position that LG has been born into (reference forest talk) and other people deserve to dethrone him such that sometime in future they might have a democracy where people own all resources. Coz end of the day he was not efficient enough to manage an attack. Sorry if that sounds harsh, am still not able to articulate why I will feel wronged if end of the day they prove him to be a bad strategist 🙁
Will think more and be back >naughty smiley<
@Tomato101 you used the word floundering and that you don’t like it.
I second that.
My addled brain computed flustered but I keep seeing that very hare caught in the headlight expression on LG’s face when he gets off his horse on realizing that LR has his men who are armed and then EU rushing to cover his body.
You know what I mean? That look has haunted me. It makes me feel bad for him as an individual but it also scares me because it means he is not the person I thought he was. Like you said: undermines the credibility of his character.
I realize that my write ups have tons of typos and I apologize in advance for that. It is because of auto corrects, me being over enthusiastic and me having too many incoherent thoughts.
I love this blog so much and it’s a pleasure to read this…To the point I’m addicted to this😅 I’m so so curious about the picture which jeong tae eul has dressed like a queen( Ep. 9) When was that picture taken? How did it wnd up on jeong tae eul’s coat? Was that foreshadowing the future?
*sorry for my bad english*
I hope one of you guys can answer my question🙏🙏
🙂 If you can’t find the answer right now, then it means that the writer is reserving it for a future scene. Let’s just wait.
@No one
About Haeundae. Thanks for the info on the street name.
I think I know what LG was doing. By announcing that he was doing the moonlight walk, he was baiting LL to come and get him. He was daring LL by saying, “I’m not afraid of you. If you are not afraid, come and face me. I’m telling you where I am.” There was no way he knew now to send his address to LL. So he had to make a public broadcast and hope that LL turned up.
It never occurred to him that LL wouldn’t do so without lots of backup and every intention to hurt the innocent to make a point.
Separate post… I was going to reply to you on another post but now I’ve lost your post… so I’ll reply here…
About the show being so odd in format that it’s throwing viewers off.
I recall that I once posted that I believed the makers of this show intended for us to be confused and upset. (I add) … that by it’s style and format, it was creating for us, the world as experienced (or will be experienced) by the protagonists, where logic is off, left is right and right is wrong, and mirror images are reversed and we do not know exactly where we are, when we are, or who we are. So it’s immersive in a meta way as well as in the micro way as we dissect the details to gain clarity.
I did think that people would be angry. We are the guinea pigs too, in this experimental style. Either we play along or we quit.
You and I both note the fact that show is making obvious, many things that shows do more subtly and with finesse. Many tropes like the romance that viewers expect to be portrayed in a certain way, the show refuses to do. Show knows it is being ‘offensive’.
Yes, it is taking a big but calculated risk. It requires that we be willing to work hard if we want to penetrate the mysteries, or else that we can be patient, watching what is doled out to us, and be happy with the end as given. I believe that no matter what, as long as the end is happy, viewers will just shrug and move on. But if the end is bad, then the whole show will be considered terrible and the rants will fill the drama-verse. LOL 😅
@Tomato101
I am reminded that in Ep 1 at the end of LL’s narrative to TE and SJ, LG remains alone on Maximus before the obelisks. I guess, his friends are going to be supporting him either at the ROK or as police somewhere (since they were interrogating LL), but the actual fight seems to be all LG’s on his own.
We have been clued in by the Signal meta and something else I forget, that this show will have that element of teams in different times, locations working together.
He has to make mistakes and learn. Just as he left that many balloons in doing his tests, he will have to recalibrate before he faces LL again. This time he’d better not make a public announcement to get LL to the spot, but instead find out LL’s whereabouts, and seek him out there!. ☺
@mychoiyoung
In Ep 1, Jo Yeong tells LG that he reaps what he sows, ie JY barged into his room to check on him, and that gave him a scare. JY did that because LG keeps bolting (disappearing) without notice. This seems to support what @pkml3 says ie that he goes to the No Man’s Land (NMLand place) to experiment. This presupposes that the NMLand is in KOC and not in the space between the portals, because he has been bolting for ages long before he saw the White Rabbit.
If the NMLand is in KOC, then yes, what you say is possible. HCL Noh and assorted persons would have gone to check it out before letting the King go there. But I cannot imagine that that place exists in KOC and no one talks about it. The only time we ever see it is when LG is there, and in the process of getting to the portal exit.
So because I feel that NMLand is in between the 2 worlds, my answer is no. I do not think HCL Noh went into NMLand at all. The one conversation that she had with Prince Buyeong about LG’s bolting was that he had once gone to the North or the Alps, when he had taken his Winter Wear. They did not consider any place like NMLand at all. 😃
I’m going to say something absolutely random because I can’t help myself… I apologise for not weighing in with insights.
I saw a bts of the drama on instagram (for reference, please check accounts that religiously post LMH content. I own none of them, obviously- it’s too much work. One is “minoz_ok” ). In the footage, they are practicing for a scene where TE is being carried by LG. It’s pretty fun to look at although very blurred. One moment KGE takes a little practiced jump to help herself into his arms and the next goes limp there on cue. She seems to be wearing a hoodie similar to the one in preview.
P.S. compared to the thoughtful insights shared here, this comment will seem very vague and rather juvenile. But I had to tell someone! 🙊
Ahm. The word salad was to say I think he’ll find her. At least he should going by the bts.
@packmule3
If you can’t find the answer right now, then it means that the writer is reserving it for a future scene. Let’s just wait.
Thanks for the answer. I hope writer-nim will give us a good answer then. All I want them a happy ending😖
How are you guys waiting until the friday? It seems like i’m gonna die bcz of the ep11 preview.
😲😲😲😲😲😘
https://www.instagram.com/p/CAY7ctqDmI-/?igshid=g0izcm6z58ga
@Princesskim0, we’re shown in one of the flashbacks of TE’s day wandering in KOC, she went into a shop and the result was this photo. It’s one of those setups where you stick your face into a round hole in a board that’s been painted. She was doing something touristy.
@Welmaris Thanks for the answer. I’m a bit sad now bcz I thought that the writer nim is foreshadowing the future of them. Now I remembered the scene where tae eul went to a one of the shops in KOC. It was a scene from CCTV footages that the LG has been watching.
*Sorry for my Bad english*
@Alxmar97: seeing that pic makes me wonder if LL kidnaps TE and makes her face off with Luna? He likes to give the impression of allowing “choice” amongst many of his victims, so he may give them both a choice to kill the other or be killed. Of course having to shoot your own doppelgänger would be enough to unhinge TE to the state where we see her in the preview of ep11. Argh fri pls come quick
@Alxmar97
Yes. Much earlier, some spoilers were also uploaded by SBS & Weibo about Luna & TE. I posted them in other forums where proper spoilers are handled. I don’t know how to post it here, though. But epis 11-12 are sounding really ominou.
Ah the spoilers. My heart. Ugh. Guess its going to go on a roller coaster ride again this coming weekend. Thanks everyone for the links .
@FGB4877
Interesting for the explanation regarding LG’s headjoint part of flute, didn’t know it would work like that. Really very curious which LG it is we are looking at, I think I will have to wait til Friday to find out if the last scene of the episode is a storytelling methodology that shows an LG from PrinceBy’s funeral or an actual future LG. (I really hope they answer this, otherwise I will pull the roots of my hairs out of frustration) Coz I really want to know what kind of time travelling element we’re seeing here. I also hope that the world building is over… only 6 episodes left so I’m curious how this is going to wrap up.
@No one
Agree with your thoughts. LG has to be deserving as a monarch, for this whole narrative with his relationship with JTE to work. Otherwise I feel its is going to end up looking like JTE becomes an easy prey for slaughter because of he is not yet up par as a King/strategist. This also makes him undeserving to face-off with an antagonist like LR who seems to be aiming to become a god of sorts. Gosh, with this kind of comment, now I am the one feeling like I’m harsh.
I feel the Haeundae incident in the script was introduced to convey the complexity of the situation should people find out LR is still alive and has not aged, and would be a big problem for the monarchy. I’m no scriptwriter so I don’t know if there are other ways to deliver this message to the viewer, but I felt instead this scenario backfired for me and instead made me doubt LG’s character instead.
I also want LG not to be shown in this light and to be displayed with more credibility as a monarch. Please, no more images of him making mistakes as the leader of his kingdom. >.<
@GB
I actually haven’t seen Signal yet, I have heard good things about it, read the overview and was planning to watch it but have not yet been able to. I should make time for it, maybe see it while waiting for TKEM’s next episode ^_^
As for making mistakes and learning from them. I understand that for certain stories they concentrate on the growth of a character – what he is now, to what he will become later. But at the ep10 mark, that miscalculation with Haeundae, or the balloons, was purely a monarch only mistake and for me, set the bar too low. It meant allocating airtime to show his improvement as a strategist and a monarch so late in the game, when the plot is now becoming complicated and progressing to include JTE. It also lowers the conviction that LR as an antagonist character is also sharp witted.
ARgh, maybe I’m just too critical. I just want this show to work and be a success, because I honestly like KES’ work in Goblin, and I could clearly see the actors show that they are doing their best too. I’ll continue to watch and see. I understand they are still filming, so hope that they can continue to reassess the work.. so far overall, things have improved since the beginning of the series, so I’m hopeful this will all work out til the end.
@GB
I liked your explanation about the meta way.
Here, what you want to express is clear, I understood everything!
I’m not sure a happy ending is the best ending to all this.
Might as well go all the way!
A really ulcerating ending. Nothing definite, lots of unresolved questions, all this with disordered sequences, without knowing where and when.
The perfect incomprehensible thing, but with poetry.
A sort of firework of all that drama in a way. ^^
Did you check this out?
https://youtu.be/7ST1Yjot1qY
Fun! And some interesting points :
1.PM described the drama as “A sad love story in a parallel world”. Okay. Happy ending fundamentalists (like me) are gonna be disappointed but a sad,tragic ending actually suits the show better.
2. LG’s favorite line is “come with me to my world”. How about that? He’s only said that to TE. LMH-KGE shippers (like me 😂) are gonna go wild.
Thanks @Alxmar97 That was a lot of fun. I have to pause it to catch all the questions while trying to watch the action at the same time!
Awww! I was totally in Eye Candy Bay while watching that video but LMH and WDH’s smile takes my breath away. Thank you @Alxmar97.
@GB @agdr03 😉😉😉
They seem like a fun pack to be around. Hope it’s just not PR.
@Alxmar97 I thought that the lot of them did very nicely by Netflix. They mentioned several times how Netflix gave them an opportunity to play, have fun, get to see new sides of each other, etc. It was a great way to promote Netflix (and The Swoon). Totally re-watchable and funny even the 3rd time around!
@agdr03 Yes their genuine smiles are so nice to see. They were really like kids at play. I always like seeing actors being their normal selves even though they know they are in front of cameras, as if they don’t mind showing us who they are under all the personas they have to portray. They are more vulnerable even, because the opinions of netizens make or break them. They are all close in age, to be able to hang out together. It would be nice if they do, even after the series ends. 🙂