I guess I can’t put off this post on King Arthur much longer. Two characters brought up the King Arthur reference: Eunsub and the Yoyo Girl.
It figures that Eunsub would have seen the similarities right away. With his childlike heart, he would be enamored with the idea of a young boy growing up to change the course of history because of his bravery. That, in a nutshell, is the story of King Arthur. Arthur didn’t know that he was the son of the King of England when he pulled the sword Excalibur from the stone. He simply needed a sword and that was the closest one at hand. But, as he faced different challenges in his life, and made good choices, he grew into the role of a much-admired King.
Lee Lim always resented that he didn’t have the “right” blood to become the king. But he missed the point. Every single one of the characters, like Prime Minister Kim, Jo Young, Nari, Eunsub, Shinjae, and TaeEul, are capable of having the “right” blood, or the King’s blood, by doing the right thing, in the right way.
And I’d like to think that the Yoyo Girl was aware of this, too.
Okay, let’s start with Ep 10 at 57:48.
It was raining. The Yoyo Girl was reading “Arthur” under the awning of the bookstore. She wore Luna’s black rabbit hoodie. Lee Lim walked by with his umbrella.
Seeing Lee Lim walking in the rain reminds me Eeyore. He, too, always walked under a dark rain cloud.
Lightning and thunder struck. The angry scar of his face lit up and blended with the blood stains from his recent killing spree. Yoyo girl just stared at him.
Note: This is the second time we’ve seen LL’s encounter with children coincided with lightning and thunder. His scar would light up, making the child notice his monster feature.
To me, he was marked as a killer. He was cursed by the heavens for murdering an innocent child Lee Jihoon and for attempting to kill Lee Gon. Children would always recognize him for a monster that he was.
He looked surprised that the Yoyo girl didn’t startle when she saw his face.
LL: Why aren’t you surprised?
I know that @GB (it was you, right?) was surprised that LL deigned to talk to a child. But if you remember that in Ep 9, we found out that he also approached a kid in Corea who’ll turn out to be Kang ShinJae.
At Ep 9, 9:16.
The Corean boy was abandoned by his mom in front of a store. “Stay right here, okay?” she said, “I’ll come back soon.” When the boy held on to his mom, the mom simply repeated herself, “I’ll be back soon, okay?” It was the 6th day of the funeral of the dead king. (Interesting, right? He quickly came back from Korea after killing his counterpart, the brother and the son.)
He was crying for his mom to return, when Lee Lim arrived in his mom’s place. LL said, “You must’ve lost your mom. I’ll find her for you.” And the next thing we saw, the young ShinJae was waking from what seemed to be a coma.
In Ep 9 at 59:03, when LL’s henchman suggested killing ShinJae and TaeEul and burying them elsewhere, LL flew into a rage and threw him toward a burning barrel. Shinjae was “the wrong move I made.”
His statement here can be interpreted in two ways.
It can mean that he regretted his temporary weakness. He helped a child, transported him to Korea and gave him a new family. And he regretted that.
Or it can mean that he fathered a child, Shinjae. Judging from his fury when he threw his henchman at the burning barrel, a “wrong move” can be interpreted as a sexual indiscretion which resulted in an illegitimate child. Just like he was an illegitimate child, history repeats itself. But that’s my guess here.
LL: Why aren’t you surprised?
Yoyo: Because I’m a curious person. I hate seeing blood. Did you fight?
She hates the sight of blood?! This is an unusual comment coming from a personification of Fate. Surely, she must have seen blood spilled a number of times.
However, if she hates the sight of blood, then she’ll also abhor a violent man like Lee Lim who leaves a sea of blood wherever he goes.
LL: I’m still in the middle of a fight. I still have a long way to go. What are you reading?
He was willing to chat with Fate about her reading material.
In contrast, in Ep 3, 43:12, ShinJae’s Corean mom met the Yoyo girl, stopped for a moment, and walked inside the bookstore, without saying a word to her.
We understand better now why she paused. Yoyo girl must be the same age as her Shinjae when she abandoned him in front of a story 25 years ago. She was remembering her child who had grown up into ShinJae.
She was still getting photo updates of her son from Lee Lim. Although LL admitted to making a wrong move with ShinJae, it appeared that he hadn’t broken off contact with ShinJae’s mother and even used her to spy on the Palace.
Yoyo: King Arthur. It’s a story about a man with noble blood drawing a sword and becoming a king.
LL: Only those with noble blood can become king? That’s a terrible story. Forget noble blood. The sword must be drawn by those who know how to use it.
This has always been LL’s grievance against the gods. He believed that he was robbed of his birthright. You see, historically, royalties have explained their existence, power, and authority to rule over people as a god-given right. This doctrine or principle is called “Divine Right of Kings.” But he forgot that, like any gift or bounty from a deity, be it a kingdom, talent, life, peace of mind, flower, or material wealth, no one can take it away from the intended beneficiary. It belongs rightfully to the recipient.
Moreover, he didn’t realize that his nephew Lee Gon was following the Arthurian legend. The young Arthur had pulled a sword stuck in stone. Arthur didn’t realize that, inscribed on the sword, was the last king’s royal edict that whoever pulled the sword from the stone would become the rightful king of England. He only realized the full significance and consequence of his action after he’d pulled the sword out of the stone.
Similarly, young Lee Gon didn’t understand that he had set himself up as his uncle’s nemesis when he dragged the sword on the ground and raised it to strike his uncle. All he knew was his father was killed in an act of treason and his uncle was the murderer.
LL: Do you really think you can hurt me with that?
Lee Gon: I will try.
He brought down the sword and it sliced the flute in half. His uncle had used the flute to block the sword.
Now, Lee Lim said that, “The sword must be drawn by those who know how to use it.” When he last saw his 8-year old nephew, Lee Gon was still memorizing the inscription on the sword. “The sky bestows the heart upon us, and the ground helps the spirit. The sun and the moon are formed. As the mountains and streams form, lightning strikes. A sage… a sage… sage… sage”
He appeared before the young Lee Gon and completed the inscription for him. “A sage is moved to defeat the evil of the mountains and streams.”
In Lee Lim’s mind, Lee Gon, like his father before him, is incompetent and undeserving of the sword.
He didn’t know that Lee Gon had grown into the role of a well-loved King in his country, and that, aside from the sword, he had two men by his side who had become his “Unbreakable Swords.” He earned their loyalties.
Yoyo: What if a villain draws the sword? Someone who is not just.
Again, this insight into Yoyo Girl’s value system is reassuring. In her mind, there’s a code of conduct that people should uphold. King Arthur and his knights swore to an oath of chivalry. In the Arthurian legends, the hero distinguished himself from ordinary men by his willingness to give up his own life for others. He wielded the sword to protect the weak, abide by the law of the land, and do the right thing even if it might bring temporary pain. Obviously, between the LL and Lee Gon, Lee Gon is the embodiment of King Arthur. It reassures me that the Yoyo Girl is predisposed to align herself with the virtues of a hero, like King Arthur and Lee Gon, than a villain like Lee Lim.
Moreover, in her capacity as Fate, Yoyo Girl restores balance and rectifies injustice. It’s good to know that she isn’t going to be capricious, callous, or indifferent in her job. She’ll strive to be just and fair like the heroes of her book.
LL: Justice doesn’t make the sword. The sword decides what justice is.
Lee Lim’s point-of-view is contrary to the ideals of the King Arthur and Camelot. But he isn’t saying anything new. His line of reasoning has been used to justify a lot of atrocious acts throughout history. It’s social Darwinism, and it’s been said in various forms. For example:
Might makes right.
Survival of the strongest.
Winner takes all.
To the victor go the spoil.
“The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.” –Thucydides, 415 BC
Since we’re Bitches and we like our trivia, that last “quote” is from a Greek historian who wrote about the negotiations between a major superpower at that time, Athens, and a small island, Melos. Athens was at war with Sparta. (You know, where Spartans lived??) Melos wanted to remain neutral but Athens invaded Melos anyway. Athens gave Melos people a choice, “surrender and pay tribute to us” or “die” — which was hardly a choice, right?
In a series of back-and-forth argument known as “Melian Dialogue,” Melos envoys laid their reasons for not surrendering, but each one of their arguments were knocked back by the Athenian delegates as impractical. For me, the highlight was when Melos argued that they had the gods on their side because their position was the morally right one, and the Athenians were clearly morally wrong.
Of course, the Athenians merely scoffed that their people were going to lose big-time, so like all losers, they were only giving themselves a “moral glow” rather than be realistic.
In other words, the Athenians said, “Whatever.” Thus, Melos was conquered, and their men slaughtered. But eventually, this “might is right” came back to bite the Athenians in their ass because they, too, were eventually defeated by Sparta.
Anyway, why am I sharing this with you? It’s to show you that nothing that the writer KES has said thus far is new. Sure, the math quips are probably unusual and the banter makes me laugh, but a new philosophy or worldview hasn’t been invented.
Yoyo: It seems that the things in your world keep changing. Anyway, goodbye. I want to know how this story ends.
Yoyo Girl dismissed him.
When she told him goodbye and sent him on his way, she was establishing the hierarchy. The child wanted to him leave so she could finish reading the story.
The interest part here is that she knocked him down a peg with her observation, “It seems that the things in your world keep changing.” What she meant here was that he couldn’t – and shouldn’t – expect things to run as smoothly as he expected, and that his plans could be thwarted.
I have to end here. 🙂
Edited to add @Growing_Beautifully’s comment. Thanks, GB!
Ep 10 56:56 [Oh dear is Fate a girl who’s dressed like a boy? More identity confusion!!] (Fate/Girl is reading King Arthur while wearing the rabbit jacket. It is raining, and I feel our commenters are right in associating rain and the significance of this, with LL who continually needs an umbrella. Fate looks up at LL and sees the blood and the fiery roots on LL’s face.)
57:17 LL to Fate: “Why aren’t you surprised?” (I’m surprised that LL is curious enough to stop and ask. Why bother with a child in the pouring rain?)
Fate: “Because I’m a curious person. I don’t like seeing blood. Did you fight?”
LL: “I am in the middle of a fight. I still have a long way to go.
What are you reading?” (I’m even more intrigued by the fact that LL enters into conversation with Fate and is curious about what Fate is reading than anything else!!!)Fate: “King Arthur. It’s a story about a man with noble blood drawing a sword and becoming king.”
LL: “Only those with noble blood can become king? That’s a terrible story. Forget the noble blood. The sword must be drawn by those who know how to use it. (LG did not know how to use it as a child, and he made a bad strike against LL as an adult)
Fate: “What if a villain draws the sword? Someone who is not just?”LL: “Justice doesn’t make the sword. The sword decides what justice is.” (LL identifies himself as the sword who redefines justice. There is no villain for LL, only the one who has the will to make use of the Flute and the Sword to maximize self. It was unjust that his brother had been given the rights to all the opportunities and had wasted them, while he, LL was denied the rights when he would have done justice by the Flute and the Sword. Thus he scoffed at his brother.)
Fate: “It seems that the things in your world keep changing. (An obscure reference to how cracks are appearing in LL’s plans – set into motion by Fate?)
Anyway, good bye. I want to know how this story ends.” (Fate looks down at her book. Never has LL been so totally dismissed. LOL)
He looks thoughtful and stays still for a while.
Fate dismisses LL as just another cog in the wheel of history, or rather she dismisses LL to his own devices which will re-write the story of Arthur/LG. Fate wants to see how the fight that LL mentions plays out with the balance in the universes, now that the ‘villain’ draws the sword that he purports to know how to use.
I wonder at the significance of this longish scene. Might it be only to draw once again the parallels with the Arthurian legend? I note that Fate has spoken with 3 main players in the game but has not yet directly engaged with LG. Instead she has placed the pieces and the sword (swords as well if we include the Unbreakable Ones) near LG and let him decide his destiny.
Thanks @pkml3. Very nice! Thanks for adding my bit as well.
About Shin Jae, my thought is that LL did not approach him by chance but that it was planned, so that LL could have his mum in the palm of his hand. If in ROK the parallel of his family was rich… then possibly in KOC his mum was poor and desperate. She left him in a precise place, I felt, to be picked up by LL according to plan. At that time, LL was still a member of the royal family and could easily get her hired as an Court Lady. He may have offered her a job in exchange for SJ.
I was guessing that it was in exchange for giving SJ a ‘good’ life in ROK, that his mum took the job and became LL’s mole in the palace. LL took care to have photos of SJ sent to his mum via bookstore book (I’d like to know how they chose their books to put info into) so that she’d feel ‘repaid’ for her betrayal of the King and continue spying.
The photos also held a threat over her head. If she did not comply, LL knew where to reach SJ to hurt him. This has effectively kept her silent and hard working.
Maybe more later! 😄
Dear @Packmule3 and @GrowingBeautifully, my take of Shin-Jae going to Korea is different. By the time that Lee Gon is mourning his father Lee Lim is a traitor, so he probably kidnapped Shin-Jae and held his hostage, his ramson being her work as a mole.
About this *little* dialogue, it is very deep and have many parallels in history. As an example my country (Venezuela) was basically created at the dissolution of the Great Colombia by a man who just wanted to rule General Páez. One of the first presidents was a medical doctor called José María Vargas who believed in peace and education. Order and Progress, like in the banner of our neighboring Brazil.
The thing is that this man had to fend off a coup by a militar man (Pedro Carujo) who had tried in a given moment to kill even Simón Bolívar. When that man confronted José María Vargas he said “the world is for the strong”. Vargas replied “The world is for the man of justice”. That was at the very beginning of our history so Páez was still a prominent figure and frustrated the cup. This was the Revolution of the Reforms (1836-1837).
That was an anecdote, but it was also a little taste of what was to come, for militarism was the original sin in our republic. José Tadeo Monagas in 1848 disintegrating the Congress by invading it with thugs and killed some Congressmen. Hugo Chávez with his coup in 1992. The creation of the “constituent national assembly” in parallel to the National Assembly in 2016.
Those are the original sins that makes the birth of nations (and dynasties), but that also mars them for a big while. If you see England, who has been one of the most stable countries in the world so far, we can see that the rights they enjoy had a first glimpse in 1215 with the Magna Carta trying to constrict the powers of a nasty king, John Lackland. But the group of Lords wouldn’t get together again for about 60-70 years!!!. Then in 1381 the Peasants revolted, and after that to not listen to them was in the country’s detriment.
The thing is, stability is a long process since institutions must grow and nurture in order to work as they should.
A character like Lee Lim is playing with fire. Should he prevail in his fight against Lee Gon, the instability caused by his destruction of old institutions in an attempt to remake them at his image will make Corea hard to govern. Fate sees it, or at least that is my interpretation of the end of her dialogue. Quoting @GB
”
Fate: “It seems that the things in your world keep changing. (An obscure reference to how cracks are appearing in LL’s plans – set into motion by Fate?)
Anyway, good bye. I want to know how this story ends.” (Fate looks down at her book. Never has LL been so totally dismissed. LOL)
”
She dismissed him not only because his plan has started to have unexpected hindrances, but also to point that he only has considered how to get what he wants, but he hasn’t delved on how to keep it. He can put people with the same faces in the other worlds, but they doesn’t have the necessary skills to make it work in the long run.
Sorry for the long post, hope it helps! =D
Sorry, *uncle* XD
Thanks for this @FGB4877 and the brief history of your land. You have a point indeed. If LL is out to wrest royal/political power, he will have lots of disorder and chaos to contend with, depending on how he takes over the regime or the world.
However, from the beginning, when I mooted the idea that LL wanted to take over the throne, @pkml3 pointed out that he was after the flute and all it accorded him. It was not just the throne of one country that he wanted. In his interrogation with TE in Ep 1, he says of his half-brother:
It sounds like he wanted to be the master of 2 worlds.
I was saying before, that because the flute did amazing things to avert catastrophes, it also allowed the King (or the one who possessed it/blew on it) to have some ‘godly’ powers. So although LL scoffed at gods, he wanted the rest of the (weak) populace to regard him as ‘god’.
As to your point that he was already a wanted criminal, that’s true. So he returned briefly, to take the child Shin Jae, risking exposure and arrest. That’s why @pkml3 is proposing that there is a closer link between SJ and LL. He had a reason to bother about SJ. For this reason too maybe (plus the reasons I proposed above…) he may be keeping tabs on SJ.
My other comment on why LL says SJ was his wrong move, was in reference to how now, it is SJ who is working to bring him down. A situation that might not have ensued if LL had left SJ alone.
I read complaints that until now, the motive of LL is not clear. What do you think/how do you feel about this: @FGB4877 and all Bitches? Do we think we know his motives?
@Growing Beautifully (GB), I think that LL’s wants it all: god-like power plus revenge against LG and legitimacy.
Oh the idea of him being Sin-Jae’s father! I hadn’t thought of that. He should have Uju’s Vader helmet!
Thank you for the Arthurian update, @packmule3. ‘It’s a story about a man with noble blood drawing a sword and becoming king.’ Some histories have Arthur being the illegitimate son of a King, Uther Pendragon but Arthur doesn’t know it until later, so Arthur would have royal blood.
Perhaps it is inevitable, but I find that there is hubris about royal blood here and it makes me uneasy. Prince Buyeong mentioned it to the PM and even LG refers to his position and belongings when he was a child. The running beheading joke bothers me, too.
I thought it was clear from the very 1st episode. Not the throne cos that is too puny for him. He wants to be all-powerful, have dominion over what his hearts desire by what the power of the mystical flute can give him.
As mentioned before, I believe that for SJ’s story to be given so much importance in the show, he must be something of significance in the overall arc of this drama. Initially & just like @packmule3, I theorized that SJ is probably LR’s son. Hence the recon on him & why the Corea mother is so willing to be a spy. The other theory I mentioned is that he is a son of the Prince. Despite the latter’s death, am still not putting that theory to bed as there are still unexplained issues with the Prince’s actions.
That’s the beauty of this show. A lot to ponder. A lot of possibilities.
sorry correction: – his heart’s desire
@Packmule, until you mentioned it, I hadn’t thought how LL being in KOC while TVs broadcast the child King Lee Gon leading mourning rites meant LL had come back to KOC from ROK so quickly after the coup.
When LL was planning the coup and his exit strategy, he didn’t consider he’d have only half of Manpasikjeok. That was probably the first crack in his plan and change in his world. He was quick about getting his half of Manpasikjeok made into the handle of an umbrella…unless the umbrella-carrying LL we see talking to Shin Jae as a child in KOC is a time-looped LL.
In ep. 1 we see LL arrive in ROK in front of Seoul Arts Center, bump into the ROK doppelganger of King Lee Ho and realize he’s no longer in KOC (Toto, I have a feeling we’re not in Kansas anymore!). He pulls his half of Manpasikjeok out of his inside suit coat pocket and says, “I was right. ‘Republic of Korea’?” I believe that indicates it was his first time experiencing the parallel world.
He arrived in ROK with the bloody clothes on his back and Manpasikjoek in his pocket. He didn’t even have an overcoat in which he could hide plenty of gold (which LG claims to have brought with him on his third visit to ROK, when he had Jo Young accompany him). How could LL support himself in a new world? He did gain a new identity right away by killing his doppelganger, but all of his parallel family in ROK seemed poor and socially insignificant. No bundle of money or social influence there. I don’t believe that ahead of the coup LL placed resources in ROK on which to live: before he got his hands on Manpasikjeok, he’d never been to ROK.
So I suppose it makes sense that he needed to return to KOC in order to gather resources to support himself in ROK. His exit strategy probably did include caches here and there that he could draw from without calling attention to himself. He’d spent a lifetime planning for the coup, so likely had an extensive network of supporters beyond those who marched with him into Cheonjongo the day he murdered King Lee Ho. But until he confirmed that a parallel world truly existed, he couldn’t count on there being people with the same faces he could coerce into replacing their doubles.
Shin Jae’s mother was of value to LL because of her job inside the KOC palace. I suspect she had that job and LL knew her before the coup. We weren’t shown, but I imagine when LL arrived in ROK he learned of a rich couple whose son was in a coma, and saw the wife was the parallel of Shin Jae’s mother. We learn in ep. 7 that Director Hwang of Yangsun Care Center is in LL’s pay: bags of cash every month for the electricity fee. The murder of LL’s disabled ROK doppelganger was officially listed as death by natural causes at Yangsun Care Center. Someone obviously fudged the records there, and I suspect under LL’s influence. Maybe Shin Jae’s ROK doppelganger was also a patient at Yangsun Care Center. SJ’s nightmarish memories are of him waking up in a medical care setting.
In the laws of parallel universes, doubles have the same DNA and fingerprints. They have the same relatives. (Except Jo Young, who doesn’t seem to have younger siblings like Eun Sup. JY may be in for a surprise; if not, that’s a major plot hole.) Shin Jae’s ROK mother has a KOC double. I imagine LL promised SJ’s mother that he could arrange a better life for SJ as the only child of a rich couple, convincing her to abandon SJ at a prearranged site so LL could take him. The rich ROK couple likely didn’t realize the child who awakened from the coma wasn’t theirs. Shin Jae was that child’s double, and LL probably did away with the true ROK Shin Jae.
Do I think Shin Jae is the illegitimate son of Lee Lim and the Palace employee? No. To convince the ROK couple that he was their comatose son, suddenly awake, SJ must have looked the same. So I’m putting my money on Shin Jae and his murdered ROK parallel having parallel fathers. Lee Lim’s parallel in ROK, having been born with poliomyelitis (causing paralysis), is highly unlikely to have fathered the ROK Shin Jae. And both Shin Jae and his ROK parallel were eight years old by the time LL arrived in ROK following the coup: no chance of LL illegitimately fathering two Shin Jae sons, one in each world.
LL’s MO after 25 years of swapping doubles is to use one and get rid of the other. We see he requires the replacement to participate in the killing of their doppelganger. That is probably to ensure their silence about the switch, because of guilt and fear. But in his early days of moving between ROK and KOC, LL seems to have operated differently. His lead henchman in ROK is a living double of someone in KOC. This is a bit confusing: a decade after the coup LL promised to show salt-farm man a different world, and in 2019 we see salt-farm man still in KOC, running a bookstore, while his double serves LL in ROK.
Shin Jae must’ve been one of LL’s earliest switches, so LL may not have optimized his process. He left both mothers alive, one of whom probably doesn’t realize she’s been “helped.” Shin Jae himself wasn’t aware he was part of a deal. The leverage LL has on the KOC mother isn’t direct, such as improved financial or social standing, but indirect through her son’s welfare. This is a messy arrangement, if LL wants to tie up control of the palace employee without loose ends. I present this as another interpretation of LL’s “wrong move” in relation to Shin Jae.
@Growing Beautifully, I believe it was you who pointed out the recurring theme of identity. One thing I’ve noticed while compiling character information is that there’s one significant character for whom we still don’t have a name: LL’s main henchman in ROK. I’m going to start calling him NoName, because it has fewer letters to type. We know the name of NoName’s parallel in KOC: the bookstore owner is Yoo Kyung Moo. We’ve also seen that NoName is insecure about whether LL will ultimately give preference to him or the bookstore owner. NoName knows well what happens to doubles, as he’s been involved in killing them. There’s a scene in ep. 7 when LL is in his man cave and directing NoName to take bags of money to Director Hwang of the care center to pay the month’s electricity fees a couple days early. NoName asks LL if he’s going to the other world again. LL answers, “I do everything in advance, but I won’t bring the man with your face too quickly, so don’t worry.” NoName grumbles as he walks out with the bags of money, “You can never be sure about people, though.” LL does not look happy to hear his retort. I get the feeling that LL is having trouble controlling him. NoName reminds me of Grima Wormtongue, Sauruman’s henchman in Lord of the Rings. Grima was servile to Sauruman a long time, but suddenly turned on Sauruman and killed him. Could NoName end up becoming another crack in LL’s plan?
A possible explanation for why LL is able to move around in KOC without being recognized is that he was made to live a life out of the spotlight after a legitimate heir was born. He was serving in the military when Lee Gon was a child, so maybe he was forced into a military career to keep him busy and away from the Royal Court. Those handling public relations for the Royal Court during Lee Ho’s childhood and after he became king would have good reason to keep Lee Lim out of the public eye, as any public sentiment supporting him might jeopardize Crown Prince Lee Ho or King Lee Ho. Out of sight, out of mind. But relative anonymity would allow Lee Lim to operate under the radar, which he did in order to gather loyal followers.
“Could NoName end up becoming another crack in LL’s plan?” Yes, perhaps. The way LL threw him at the burning barrel when he proposed to murder TE and Shin-Jae made me think that LL is burning his bridges with NoName. Earlier I thought that the living doubles were being manipulated by LL until one or the other is no longer useful. LL thinks NoName has made mistakes – the missing 2G phones and the missing henchman, so LL may be considering getting rid of NoName. NoName may become desperate enough to strike back. He’s violent.
@Welmaris Wonderful! You’ve got it all down succinctly, and it makes sense. It’s intriguing to think that the LL who meets the crying Child Shin Jae, may in fact be a LL of a future time. The reason I’m thinking it might be possible is that the LL who comes back 6 days into the funeral, has a scar on his hand that looks completely healed like it did in Ep 1. Not a new pink scar but an one that looks old.
The other reason is that he would have had to have been in ROK long enough to discover the ROK Shin Jae, and to have a means to switch the children. This means he’d have had to return to the past to engineer SJ’s mum’s leaving him there to be collected, and on the ROK side, he would have already set up the Yangsun Care Center or gotten minions/doctors to get rid of the real SJ and to slip in our KOC SJ.
I’m not sure if the ROK mother was aware of the switch or not. For some reason I found her coming into Shin Jae’s sick room looking somewhat diffident or guilty.
Yes, I’m also confused about Salt Man (No Name). Is the new world promised, in fact the easier life of a bookshop owner and gatherer of traitors?
[An Aside: Might he also have taken on the job of guardian of a portal?
One conjecture that I read in passing was that perhaps in his playing around with the portals, LL discovered he could set up the portal between the bookshop and the salt farm, (both these 2 places are located in KOC, I believe, but let’s say for argument that he could also move within worlds.) It’s a tempting thought that if LL could figure out how to set his portal entrances/exits, he had only to visit the bookshop to gain access to some place miles away.]
Yes, guilty as charged. It was I who was going on about identity. I wrote a long one on it, here: https://bitchesoverdramas.com/2020/05/13/the-red-kings-dream-part-3/
I ended up thinking show can still throw us for a loop, since anything can be something else in a dream, assuming this is a dream. However the question of identity is crucial, I feel. So much hinges on who a person thinks he is and is affiliated to. No Name, has no identity to us, but he might be the one to betray LL in the end. 🤔
Your interpretation of Shin-Jae’s mother’s look towards yo-yo kid is very interesting. I had earlier deduced that yo-yo kid might be related to her and Shin-jae in some way. I was also thoroughly baffled by Lee Rim’s interest in yo-yo kid’s book and the conversation. I am yet to watch Episode 11 but I’ve been wondering whether Lee Rim will just stab yo-yo kid with his flute for that dismissal. I know that won’t happen.
Reading what you all have commented, yes Shin-jae being Lee Rim’s child is unlikely.
Of course Lee Rim wants a lot more but I do think he would still want to have the title of the King/Emperor even if it does not mean much because he is very bitter about his non-eligibility by blood.
I’m new here and don’t have a lot to offer in discussions but your attention and take on the smallest of details in the drama are really enjoyable to read @Packmule3. Theres so much going on in the drama, and most of us tend to overlook or get thrown off by these small details.
Btw this may not mean much, but when Shin-Jae’s ROK mother was talking on the phone, she made a comment that perhaps Ji-hun’s mother snagged a rich young man, and not an old man. She may or may not know Lee Rim but found that dialogue funny, haha he is young alright!
@Dewdrop I was noting that name, Ji Hun, too… but I was under the impression it was another kid named Ji Hun. Are we speaking here of the mother of the dead Ji Hun, the doppelganger of LG? If so, then yes, JH’s mum could have worked for SJ’s family before and JH actually received hand-me downs of SJ’s clothes.
Then the rich ‘old’ guy who’s enabling her to live ‘well’ as far as outsiders can see, is indeed our LL, looking still in his 40’s. This means that in both ROK and KOC the families of JH and SJ have been connected in a similar, yet in a mirror image way. JH’s mother worked in for SJ’s family in ROK but it was SJ’s mother who worked in the palace! (Amazing!)
This parallel between different families or groups of people is possible since we see at the KOC, Police Station, that the parallels of Park and Shim were also working together.
What an interesting thing.
Dear @GrowingBeautifully, my guess is that Lee Lim is kind of a dog chasing a Truck of Doom XD .
Let me explain myself: he is after absolute power, time-travelling and dimension jumping all at the same time.
First of all, he desires way too many things at the same time, “El que mucho abarca, poco aprieta” (the one who tries to do many things at once will have himself accidentally droping many since he can not micromanage all that complexity).
Second, he doesn’t understand the rules nor the entities (or persons) involved. He still thinks that persons are easily reduced to their baser instincs and needs.
So Lee Lim basically wants a lots of things that are both pretty harmful and beyond his imagination, the ramification of his careless decisions left to the wind (you could say a butterfly effect: small variations in initial conditions causes huge result discrepancies in the long run).
Hope it helps =D
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