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Let’s enjoy the show.
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336 Comments On “The King: Eps 11 & 12 Open Thread”
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The thread is now open for spoilers, rants, comments, analyses, observations, and theories.
Let’s enjoy the show.
gif credit: setsmaker’s tumblr
Comments are closed.
Wow TKEM’s Instagram is releasing so many spoilers just right before the new ep. It’s like watching a whole ep. 😂
Oh someone shoot on Yeong in the episode 12 trailer 😭
The dopplegangers can have a break?
Let’s have a little comedy before we watch the episodes and bust our nerves.
I’ve created some parodic memes of the drama :
https://www.pinterest.fr/w4worlds/the-king-eternal-monarch-meme/
The memes often have one or two comic meanings, in addition to the one obvious on first reading. I’ve made an explanatory description, in case it seems blurry to you. But try to guess anyway. ^^
Knight in shining armour 😍 and the queen who fights well. 💪
Just finished watching it.. this ought to have happened 6-7 episodes ago, such a slow build up. Lee Gon is good when he kicks a*#
I believe they just fast tracked the story 🙂 There are some suspension of belief needed for it, but still within the realm of plausible and shouldnt bother a viewer too much as long as they dont nitpick. With this update, I think they can actually wrap the story up cleanly. (thank goodness) I wish they will find a time to reedit the earlier episodes, then this series would really be very good.
I liked the episode, they managed it very well with the suspense. Was a little surprised they decided to take the un-depressing route towards the end, but it was so badass anyway so I’ll forgive them for being slightly unrealistic (hard to believe there was no gun in that dogfight at the end)
@Arihsi Hahahah that was really a very good setup. The action sequences were done very well.. it looks like the additional director must’ve paid off, and they’re reviewing the edits much better. As for “the queen who fights well” all I kept saying while watching it, laughing, was “the girl is the stud!!! its not the guy! this is awesome!”
@Sayaris I like Yeong, I hope he’s going to be ok. They just removed a lot of the potential/existing “peon” dopplegangers with what happened in this episode, so I think the story will move ahead without being so dragging now.
Usually I’m one of those “oh the female lead should fight for herself and need no saving etc etc” and permanently inhabit the cynical island.
But I must say, I’m on my way over to the shallow island at the moment @phoenix. I forget if @adgr3 is also a resident 🤔 blame it on the quarantine and trying to manage a toddler since so long with no childcare options… My eyes feasted on LG coming with an army to save his girl. 😍
Hashtag go shallow island go!
@Tomato 101 please join me for drinks at the shirtless bay.
May I already pose a question about episode 11? When TE met Fate at the warehouse she said “You are in this world too” And then she ran away and was surprised to see herself in Koc??? Like, is it really TE or are we seeing Luna? She also didn’t know the number to reach LG, and last time she was there, she called him 17 times. Am I missing something here?!
I’ll be so mad if that whole scene was for Luna 😂😂
When some of the spoilers were released, that’s exactly what I asked in another forum – Don’t you find it odd? LG’s team using swords, not guns… What? So it would be quieter?
Haha
Salute to our King Lee Gon and the royal guards for the heroic rescue of the future Queen! LMH was mote handsome in an angry mode at the battlefield. Another superb acting and crying skills by KGE as well!
What a night, I wonder how can I sleep!
Whoever said yoyo girl restores the balance, thank you so much! Upon reading that comment, I’ve always kept that in mind and ep11 just confirmed that she really does. She gives warning as well. She hates injustice and wants enemies to be eliminated. This whole load of information coming from her felt like spoon-feeding. 😂 Not complaining at all! Ep1-ep10 trained us to think, make assumptions, interpret data and make theories. So most of the parts in ep11 is a breath of fresh air.
Everything was happening as if planned, all stitched together. Luna handing over her knife to yoyo girl. Yoyo girl giving it to TE.
When TE asked her “who are you?”
Yoyo girl looked at the slightly open doorway. It was noticeably too bright for a doorway in daylight, I was quick to assume that yoyo girl was introducing herself as a deity. It served a double purpose though as the armed men entered the storage,giving TE the chance to protect herself using the knife.
Yoyo girl has been with TE since the evening when she was still groggy/drugged and patiently waited for TE to regain her consciousness and energy. Thank you, yoyo girl!
Before watching ep11, I’ve read someone’s wild guess that Luna will enter the palace pretending to be TE. And boy were my toes curling the entire time. But case closed. The real queen is coming back to the palace.
Yeah, @agdr03 and @phoenix are Chief residents of Shallow Island. They allow illegal immigration so go on ahead, swim over there. Watch out for Manly Peaks.
I’m on Cynical Island (Population: 1).
I have guests. I kick them off the island or ship them off to @phoenix and @agdr03 if they get on my nerves. 😈
King Arthur and his knights have to fight with the swords right😆，impractical but with so much more style!
Plot wise, LG figured out that time may eventually stop forever if they don’t close the portal. And who did JY see at the alley? PM Koo or her doppelgänger? If it’s her doppelgänger, looks like she already knows about JY.
@Bliss hello! TE must have remembered yoyo girl from the time she dropped her ID in ROK.
As for the call, she came to COR with nothing but herself. She didn’t have any coins for the payphone. It was in perfect timing that there is a hotline number to send msgs to the King. I really applaud TE’s presence of mind though. With all the physical battle, plus her taekwondo exercise before abduction, it must be really exhausting as well for her mentally.
@packmule3,
Take a look at my memes, and tell me if that’s enough to pass the cynical island entrance exam.
😀
(E11 download in progress)
Bahahahahahahaha.
But I agree, looks like the changes made – new director and the former director who is now handling editing – is working. Hope it continues.
Now I have to stew on LG’s discovery about the lengthening of frozen time & time stopping forever on both worlds…
@packmule3 – come out of cynical island. Just for a break. Come on, you know you want to, hehe
@WEnchanteur the memes got me. Definitely the aliens!
Omo, that was so emotional, LG was so sad it was tangible in the beginning, and then that epic ending scene…. But why did TE not know the palace number though… she dialled it 17 times before… that worries me a bit. And I kept expecting a gunshot to go off at some point and off her during the whole fight scene. It felt like a Joeson battle in modern day Busan… glorious calvary!!!
I, uh… I just don’t understand…
The episode begins clearly. We’re given context.
A well done scene, punchy, surprising, double accident.
Normally, it would have started right in the warehouse with Luna’s first line.
Something capable of screwing us, as usual.
But this time, no… It’s all clear.
Even the dialogue leaves no room for ambiguity.
It’s clean and flashy on the screen.
Am I really watching TKEM?
What is this warm feeling?
I come to the end of the scene…
I didn’t get bored… I want to see the continuation… OMG…
T T
That’s not possible, the following is bound to get messy.
(Live report at +05:00)
@WEnchanteur I loved your memes!! They really should get you admittance to Cynical Island. LOL.
Random thoughts before I collapse for the remainder of the night, which is morning.
All in all, it was a feel good episode, in a wicked way. So satisfying seeing the bad guys being taken down. I have to check when it was that TE got drugged. Something in that PPL drink, I imagine.
She certainly put up a good fight and got the better of all those guards while still in her drugged state.
I watched without subs, therefore I’ve missed the finer points, but it seems that LG was waiting for time to stand still again before he struck, so that LL’s minions would be like a chicken without a head. And strike he did, as mercilessly too as LL, I must say.
It’s good that Fate took a hand and all, and I know she had been around watching and interacting with all the main players except LG, however her being there to help TE still feels like an ex deus machina. If there’d been another way for TE to get loose and get the knife, it would have been better.
I found it to be quite a coincidence that after speeding along the road for some time, TE ends up in the place at which the ambush was being set up to catch the traitors. Right in the spot between the police and the cavalry. I like that she still stood to defend herself.
Although I saw the traitors running out of the bookstore, I felt that the main bulk of them had ‘teleported’ to the place where the police were waiting, and were magically invisible behind a different kind of portal, because their running could be heard long before they came into view.
And those guys had been on foot, not stuck in a vehicle; why were they still in a group and not scattered. They were sitting ducks.
It would have taken time to get the horses and swords. How long did they run out in the open or did they emerge from the tunnel. How could they have no guns (did they even have knives?)
Swords seem to be a common weapon for the royal guards. I should have guessed LL had a sword in that umbrella… so it’s a flute-umbrella-sword [(portal, protection and poke) I like things that multi-task LOL]
@Arihsi Thanks for the invitation, I’d love to hop over a bit and enjoy a drink too. We can share stories, actually I’m also bound by a toddler AND a preschooler during these covid times, … I need a break as well. I’m not a LMH fan but that gruttal, nasal “Protect her! She is the future queen of the Kingdom of Corea!” was quite impressive. TKEM is actually my first time seeing him (just new w kdrama), LMH should act w desperation and anger more, he’s really very good at it. I hated his acting during the start of the series… I’m not certain but I think that was an issue with the production, (I tried watching his other shows and he was ok with them) but glad he’s doing much better now ^_^
@mychoiyoung I was watching and waiting for someone to put a bullet through her actually, though wishing it wasn’t fatally. Haha. I’m so evil and sadistic. Its all for a good plot! Additionally, LG suddenly trusts all of his security team, cavalry and swat teams. Did it never occur to him there might be a mole somewhere in there?
@Bliss Nice catch, not sure if that is a script error, I cannot imagine a scenario where JTE would say “You are in tihs world too” when she thought she was still in ROK. I think it is a script error, but let me say this, if it is not an error, and that means she’s Luna,…. and yet, no need to be worried if she is: her responses to the situation (even considering LR’s reaction) will prove that she is still JTE, albeit a “different time” JTE posing as Luna in the KOC. This one still also loves LG. On the other hand, the next episode preview has a shot of Luna and she doesn’t look anything like the stressed out/just escaped JTE at the end of this episode. So highly possible this episode, in that battle/fray, was the real JTE. Lets see tomorrow though.. thank goodness we dont have to wait that long for the next episode 😉
Now we have confirmation that last episode’s LG is a time travelling one. still doesnt answer what kind of time travel this is… and infinite time loop one, or a finite one. If the plot is about possibility about time stopping and freezing eternally for both worlds, I’d put my bets on a finite time travel scenario. Curious to see how this is going to be played out.
Curious how they are going to do the last 5 episodes. Foreshadowing suggests its going to be a sad ending I guess, not something out of their control but something that will be necessary and will be consciously decided on. I actually liked Goblin because it was about choices. I feel the same thing will play out here too (hey its the same scriptwriter!). But I hope I’m wrong… I feel JTE is much too awesome and proactive to just let the situation take over her life, she might decide to choose something that’ll surprise us 🙂
@WEnchanteur yes, you’re watching TKEM. Very happy w the improvements. Up until recently I have actually had the same concerns as you when it came to production. Pretty much pulling my hair out. Its all very suspicious, and too good to be true but its real – the episode was generally straight forward and quite clear, they even managed to add suspense and thrill into the equation properly 😛 If you want your bubble to be burst, please nitpick at some unplausible scenarios from this episode (e.g. where’s the gun, where’s the mole – there must be some – in his Majesty’s army, etc), there’s a couple of them, but its still not the usual production issues we’ve encountered. I have some reservations with the warehouse scene, but I think I need a second viewing for that to confirm. All in all, enjoy the clarity! 🙂
@GB yes the scene with Fate felt like Deux ex Machina. I think they utilized that method to play catch up to the story… because seriously, I was worried they wont be able to tie things up cleanly if the previous pacing continued.
10:00… Woooo, it’s not product placement anymore.
It’s a real commercial!! Amazing.
🙂
Noticed by chance:
44:30
The alter-ego in ROK of the PM Koo has a red wallet, similar to the one of the smuggler arrested a few episodes before.
@Bliss – Re TE’s question to Yoyo-Girl
Looks like a continuity error alright. But perhaps it could also be nuances in translation?
Perhaps when TE asked “You’re in this world, too?” the translated line should actually be – “You’re here, too?” Meaning, she is asking why would Yoyo-Girl be in that place where she is captured when she is just a child.
I have experience in translations BUT not with Korean language. However, there is such a thing as denotative & connotative meanings. Denotative refers to the strict dictionary meaning of a word or its literal translation. Connotative refers to the emotional weight of a word or phrase. So in this case, the denotative or literal translation could be “this world” but the connotation might simply mean “here”, where both TE & Yoyo-Girl were at.
That’s how I understood the script should be to make it sequentially logical to TE’s realization in the car that she is in Corea, afterall.
Re the palace tel # – (1) that was sometime ago when she dialled the palace #. Even if one dialled it 17 times before in one occasion but never repeatedly over a period of time, one is bound to forget (2) TE might have just pushed re-dial cos she was frantic & in a hurry during that 1st time. (3) On this night, she is terrified, drugged, just running on adrenaline. Why rack your brain for something when a number of the Palace is already in front of you?
@bliss yes I too scratched my head at the part when TE tells yoyo girl “You are in this world too?” @juliette I initially thought the same as you, that she remembered the incident when she dropped the tag. But in this scene TE still didn’t realise she was in KOC, so that means she is saying she saw yoyo girl previously in KOC?
Whatever the case, I enjoyed the episode! I’m joining you, @arihsi, lol, nothing like a good sword fight to convince me!
God…I’m dying to watch it! But I have this non-written rule to watch the episodes after 10 pm and it’s just 2 in the afternoon.
Why do I like to torture myself like that? 😭
@Tomato101
Waaaahhhh!!!!!
Can you feel my enthusiasm?!!
This is the very first episode of TKEM that deserves to be seen!
I noticed some imperfections, but frankly, I’m not going to play hard to get.
I’ll detail that later.
If only the drama could have been done this way from the start…
It’s so unbelievable that I don’t understand how this is possible.
Changing editors is not enough.
Here, the script too, the screenplay, became more confident.
What happened?!?!?
It’s like Kim Eun Seuk picked up her phone.
EUNSUK – Hello, Jae-jung?
JAEJUNG – Mmm, yes. Are you Eun Suk?
EUNSUK – Yes, I need your help.
JAEJUNG – How bad are things going?
EUNSUK – Well…
I feel like a very painful person (and I probably am).
But everything I’ve been saying since X comments is illustrated here.
Impossible to convince the audience without an obvious and striking staging.
Everything has to be clear, the only time the audience has to use its brain is for :
– Focus on the mysteries of the story, not of the direction.
– Dig deeper, and study the hidden details that serve to reinforce the story, but which are not essential to its understanding.
The script should focus on cause and effect. It’s complicated to do, much more than a patchwork of scenes scattered here and there. The kind of scene you can put anywhere and have no cause in, no effect out. I analyzed another scene like this from TKEM this afternoon!
When spectators accuse KES of being lazy, I don’t entirely agree, because KES has put together a background that demands a lot of experience, methodology and talent. But as far as the execution and the setting of this background was concerned, yes, it was really lazy, or at least so inappropriate.
@mychoiyoung
“Perhaps when TE asked “You’re in this world, too?” the translated line should actually be – “You’re here, too?” Meaning, she is asking why would Yoyo-Girl be in that place where she is captured when she is just a child.”
I only know a few Korean words but since the ones used here are easy I tried typing what I heard in google (and let it auto correct what I misspelled)
What I hear TE (or Luna) say to Yoyo is: 근데 너 이 쪽에도 있구나
which translates exactly to: By the way, you were also on this side
Even if 쪽 is the word used, not world, it pretty much means “side”.
So she’s clearly talking about the different worlds, not just Yoyo being in the place she is in the same world(side)
This line doesn’t really fit with TE. But her desperation to get to the palace does. Using Lee Gon’s name on the phone does.
So I’m confused a bit. Also I found it intriguing that Luna’s hair was actually long.
Other stuff I found interesting:
PM Koo is obviously in the republic. The scene where she went to get fancy shoes felt suspiciously like her, more than her geek looking doppelganger. But the next scene with JY pretty much confirms it.
It was fun that LG said when Koo was avoiding meeting him:
“She’s trying to get back at me by doing exactly what I did”
Only she’s probably doing it exactly like he did it more than he thought. She’s not just staying away from public appearances and receiving all reports online. She, just like LG, is actually using that as an excuse to allow her to visit a different world for a while.
Also I loved most that we got an unexpected different possibility for Lee Gon to be an eternal monarch. He might not get caught in a never ending loop but in a frozen world. Since apparently every time the portal is used the world freezes for the other person who has half of a flute for an increasingly amount of time.
He’ll at one point have an eternity in a frozen world to figure out how to go back in time and undo that.
Peoples! As discussed extensively on the blog before, LG is a terrible shooter, right ? Maybe that’s why the swords ? Usually, the viewers are here for the hero to save his girl and not a trained, armed professional law enforcement member 😛 so wouldn’t it have been inconsistent to show him saving her using a gun ?
Which brings me to ! Maybe he’s not from current time ! He’s an anachronism! An error of time indicating he really shouldn’t exist in modern day !
He might have been a child in the 90s but his uncle also uses the sword a lot, correct? And not a gun. Maybe they are BOTH stuck in the time loop.
I have so many thoughts, but I’ll start with one: anyone noticing the green-red symbolism with yo-yo kid and the two worlds?
I’m pretty sure yo-yo kid wears a red shirt in ROK, and a green shirt in the Kingdom. The yo-yo is green-ish, while the string is red. Luna even flags the string’s color in Ep. 11, and says to replace the string because it will break.
In the same car where TE realizes she’s in the Kingdom, a sign shows up when the car runs out of gas. The car says “Goodbye” in red. (haven’t driven a car in ages but that strikes me as new). A sign of her “exiting” ROK? (Sorry if this is a dumb theory).
And finally, when TE goes to the pay phone, she chooses the green phone (there’s a red one right beside it) to call LG.
I wasn’t confident at all that TE would choose queendom (she might not still, or if LG becomes stuck in eternal limbo it might not matter much), but IMO this and Luna’s switch gave me hope. I definitely felt that her entry into the Kingdom is more permanent this time. (Especially with LG flagging her as the future queen to his guards at the end! Don’t get ahead of yourself, mister!)
On a related matter, some people have pointed out that TE should have already known she was in the Kingdom when she was in the car, because she had the conversation with the yo yo kid. It might be some Luna switcheroo or something else, but if the kid is a deity, then memory manipulation powers are not out of the question. How else would he have not been kicked out from outside the library, after being privy to so much coming and going from Lee Lim’s hideout?
@Juliette
@Tomato101
@Mychoiyoung
@JT7
Thank you!!
I think it was a continuity error, maybe. I’ll forget about it for now.
The phone part explanations were great, she probably just used the easer way to contact him. Let’s wait for tomorrow for more questions 😆
He’s an able warrior but confident with a sword and not a gun. Experience? Time? Initial training?
Same with beheading. Viewers and the characters of the series both find it strange that he keeps mentioning it. Modern ways of capital punishment do exist after all. Maybe he’s from a time when that was the norm !
And lastly, TE is the zero. The beginning of time. The big Bang. The point where his time will finally start moving unidirectional. After all he’s trapped in a root. And time is stopping for the square of a prime number. The only one to save him by ceasing to exist is a zero.
ooooooh btw anyone else find it weird that Luna kinda saved herself/doppleganger indirectly?
Hear me out. When Luna came to yo-yo boy, he holds out a knife and she says she didn’t come for that, instead he should use it to “protect what belongs to you”. Yo-yo boy actually uses the same knife to help Tae Eul escape the warehouse! How ironic!
Don’t be afraid of onions anymore. Aliens. Product placement take over. @WEnchanteur, bravo. And it seems that there was enough blood to make you enjoy the episode?
Yes, the Fate with TE or Luna. Surely Fate would know if it were TE or Luna, so it must be TE, but why did she think she was then wasn’t then was in KoC?
Also, I don’t know if it was already pointed out (apologies if it was) yes ! The LG in the last scene of Ep 10 was from a different time (as TE realised and assured us through her monologue).
I think the number she called in this eps is a tollfree, anyone can just pick up the phone and wish happy new year to the King. Unlike the first time, she didn’t have money with her this time so she can’t dial in directly. In the previous scene, I recall they showed that there is still 100W left in the pay phone. If i guess it correctly and If i still remember how pay phone works haha normally the reader will tell you how much coins you have left right? And not the phone number. So yeah, i guess after last incident LG Have asked the palace to make note of JTE name.
Eps 11 progress well, it’s a good watch. More comments on it soon
This is my first time posting here so I want to tell you how much I enjoy eavesdropping on your conversations and how happy I was to find a group of people talking about this drama other that saying how bad the ratings are etc etc. It does seem this writer expects a certain amount of effort from the viewer to fully enjoy the story,
One thing has been bothering me for a long time, though, and I haven’t seen it discussed anywhere else. How can Lee Gon only be the 3rd king of the Kingdom of Korea? Do their kings have really long lifespans?
Ok I need a hug analysis lol. When LG was asking TE for her answer to his proposal, he suddenly pulls her into a hug which I felt was a little odd. Anyone else thought that too, or am I just reading too much into it? He yanks her quite hard, it reminded me of the time he hugged her the first time he met her in ROK.
You have such sharp eyes @WEnchanteur! I felt the scene where they caught the person with the red wallet was extraneous… perhaps it was another piece to the puzzle.
@JT7 LG knew that she may refuse him at the point. He wasn’t sure that she would give up everything to be with him and so he is actually afraid to hear her answer.
Dies irae – behold the wrath of the King!
@Arihsi @Tomato101 Welcome to Shallow Island where we are currently replaying the scene of LG coming to the rescue on a white horse brandishing a legendary sword in true Arthurian fashion **be still my beating heart**
@packmule3 You are welcome to send any lurking fangirls to me and @agdr03 and we will welcome them with a drink of Min Grin Margarita 🍸🍸🍸
I’m in love with that scene😍. I even want to be rescued by LMH on a white horse😜😜
I was laughing. 😂 Lee Gon threw Lady Maximus into the crowd like a bowling ball and scored a strike.
That acting horse did a good job. Give it some apples and carrots!!!
Oh wait. The last part of the preview. That was JY saying “I’ll open all the doors of the universe.”
Will this be about LG getting disappointed of JY?
@packmule3 Lots of carrots, lemon candies and polo mints to the white horse from our MaxMin club members!!! 🥕🥕🥕
I’m now very hopeful we will have a happy ending as LG said “future queen”! I don’t think the drama will give us such indications only to dash our hopes cruelly in the end😤
With 5 eps left I hope KES will have enough time to put together all the pieces of the puzzle that she peppered this drama with. It would be a bummer if all those seemingly inconspicuous details were just story disconnects. I hope some of the wonderful theories and analyses shared in this blog will be part of KES’ beautiful solution.
@Arihsi I love that #Hashtag go Shallow Island go!!!!🙌🎉
Yes, @agdr03 is a permanent resident, like me🙏
@Fern @juliette @GB
I’m glad you enjoyed it! As usual, ideas are often involuntary and it’s a bit of an incredible chance that everything ends up being organised like on the Aliens meme. I’ve got a few other ideas, but nothing that’s really up to scratch now.
Blood and action: that’s not what I’m looking for specifically. But I remember reading something that amused me, a screenwriter’s tip: “if your script is boring, bring a man with a gun into the room”.
As Tomato mentions, it’s mainly the clarity, the follow-up of the story, its intensity.
My favourite part is when Lee Gon does his calculations and reveals that the timestop is getting longer and longer. It’s a feeling that the director has managed to give throughout the drama. It was well prepared, discreetly. The spectator didn’t need to guess it explicitly, since here the plot-twist is the moment of revelation. So it’s a hidden detail as I like them. This does not prevent understanding, but a clever or very observant spectator can guess in advance.
Here, I was lucky, I felt it, but I didn’t completely guess. I prefer to be caught by the plot-twist, it’s more pleasant!
@SaintYve
The knife : Same for this detail. I only saw the episode once. So it’s impossible to notice details like this. Especially when you’re in the skin of a real Korean and you’ve had a glass of whisky!
And indeed, it’s a very good irony.
Again: detail not essential for general understanding, but which reinforces the meaning. And gives even more pleasure to the viewer when he sees the episode again.
Just watched!
My God…what a bloodbath! I can’t believe they went all in with savage Lee Gon! Risky move!
I guess our friend Fate has picked a side. Our side. I thought she was gonna be impartial but no. Another risky move!
The frozen moments in time now makes more sense with what LG discovered.
BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY:
WERE THEY TALKING ABOUT HAVING SEX WHEN SHE SAID HE DITCHED HER AND THEY WERE ALONE? (sorry for the caps but they’re needed)
Is that right or do I have a dirty, dirty mind?
@Alxmar97
Maybe it really happened, I didn’t pay attention.
In any case, if you noticed that… you have a dirty mind. 🙂
About the yo-yo girl:
I’ll have to watch the episode again, but it seems to me that there’s an important information.
It’s something I’ve been sensing for a long time:
There’s no two yoyo girls.
The character is unique. I don’t know if the character travels between worlds, or if it’s some kind of ubiquity.
We had a clue, when Tae Eul is hit by the yoyo girl in ROK.
@WEchanteur
😂😂 It didn’t happen but she seemed upset, like she actually wanted it to happen and he left her alone. Anyway, I think I have a dirty mind!
About the Yo-yo girl, there is only one, you’re right. She told TE that she was the same one that knocked her ID down the drainage.
@Alxmar97, your interpretation of at scene is correct. LG promised not to be so considerate next time. So we will see if he follow through with that in today’s episode.🤣
@Summerwind525 Holy *****! They actually went there. 😲😲😲😂😂 So refreshing a Korean drama with such “playfulness” 😉
Hah! I finally got to watch with the subs.
Yes @Wenchanteur, I can tell this is the kind of episode you’ve been talking about and so you would like it. The information is now coming in a better stream and we are not left in the dark so much.
Yes, I wasn’t sure if I was seeing an increasing length of frozen time or if the show just wanted to squeeze in more action in those frozen moments. It was well done. I really like that Maths was properly used and came into the game now and makes a difference in a big way. Now LG knows the seriousness and the need to stop travel between worlds. So it was not a forgettable plot device but an important part of the decision making process for LG. Also I love how he stops and thinks calmly and clearly in the midst of all that killing.
TE too is portrayed as being fantastic. She still seems to have been suffering the effects of the drug that knocked her out, and although disoriented, she made all the right decisions and still had her reflexes. I loved that she protected the child first thing, that although overwhelmed and unsupported she stood up over and over again to defend herself and to attack.
It’s good that LG has made good on his promise. It’s not clear if he ever got word that she had called the palace, but he did tell her before that he would definitely come if she called him. (Or something like that!)
Show was certainly not playing around when it kept giving us the King Arthur theme. (Fate must have been watching to see how this part of the story goes.) I expected a sword fight with LL but not a whole cavalry with swords. I found that show really didn’t waste time – no chance even for LG to go back for his Four Tiger Sword.
It’s nice but a bit unrealistic that LG is totally unscathed and his people seem to be all standing. This summary punishment somehow seems anachronistic but is sure makes for great dramatic TV.
Next, we might be going back to some Alice themes. 🙂
When TE neutralized the driver of the truck of doom and the truck sat there idling, did anyone else yell at the screen, “Take the f…ing truck!” Was it just me?
And for those who may wonder why a police detective like TE would cry so much: she’d probably never before in her career shot to kill, etc. Despite being in the Violent Crimes Division, when we’ve seen Squad Three at work apprehending suspects, it has been bloodless. Using lethal force is, in most cases, traumatic for the officer involved. TE was in psychological shock from that, and everything else that was happening to her. She’s highly trained, and that training kept her alive, but she is human.
@GB
On this:
“It’s nice but a bit unrealistic that LG is totally unscathed and his people seem to be all standing. This summary punishment somehow seems anachronistic but is sure makes for great dramatic TV”
Totally agree. It reminded of the final battle in Nolan’s “The Dark Knight Rises”.
@Alxmar97 @summerwind525 they released pics https://www.instagram.com/p/CAhTbtTp6-E/?igshid=13p76ukffr2mc
Guess he’ll keep to his word on not being so considerate!
Loved this episode.
@Wechanteur, loved your memes. My guess is that the first episodes had a lot of exposition and showing the basic rules of this world (because Lord Buddha, this drama has a lot going on). Now that it is done, we can proceed to the main course, that is Lee Gon’s fight with his uncle. Even if I find myself liking Tae Eul a lot, she is the queen on a chess game.
Love your insights on directing, editing and screenplay.
See your comments later!
And for the rest of the Forumites, will read your comments in a less ungodly hour (it is 3:00 AM here in Caracas) =D
I love this episode 11.
＠Oli I think that was PM’s doppelganger who is preparing to replace PM. That’s why she changed her fashion.Although I am not a fan of but hope she will fight back.
Why was Luna wearing a wig? Any thoughts here?
Hi @Alxmar97 LOL, I like the good guys to win and without collateral damage, but this battle was too good to be true. Heartily re-watchable, even in slow mo to catch LG’s spins and turns with the sword. At last he is one who can wield the sword unlike his child self 25 years previously.
@Welmaris Hey Hi 5! I was also thinking she should just take the truck. Why walk? Also it would have removed 1 Truck of Doom from the road.
Yes, I feel KGE’s portrayal of TE is very human and relatable. She was in a shocking situation with her life threatened 3 times in quick succession (fight in warehouse, on the road and from Truck of Doom) and the shock was about to overwhelm her totally, but I like how she doggedly staggered around, continued to take action, stood her ground, and watched the melee unfold before her.
I see that this is an episode with many photos displayed. I will have to re-watch to take note of the Timestamps. How about I also do the Character Info for Ep 11 as well? 😃
Awoke this morning with a dream of Boris Johnson, PM of KoC in a video call, asking Tae-Eul for payment before he would allow her to stay in the country.
Now that I’ve had a sip of coffee and looked at the screen, I’m wondering if I’m very unpleasant to wish that Na-Ri would secretly spit into PM Koo’s tea. Because I’m sure it’s the real one who is NOT having a sick day and I don’t like her even one little bit. Makes me think now that alt PM was the one in the car crash who had something (identity/life) taken from her.
@Alxmar97, if you have a dirty mind, you’re not alone. That’s exactly how I read that scene. And when TE responded in frustration when LG said he wouldn’t be so considerate next time, she doubled down. No next time! Today!!
@Welmaris and @Growing Beautifully (GB), “thinking she should just take the truck”. Probably prudent. Would need special driving licence and would get a DWI (or DUI).
Is anyone else wondering how this will all be explained to the KoC general public? I’m interested to see the news coverage.. I guess we’ll see later today.
– Speaking of media, did anyone see the translation of the messages on the tablet that made the King say that it was the PM’s doing? I didn’t get any sort of subs although they may have been added now.
@Fern, no subs for the blast of news releases by PM Koo. Also no sub for what the man who’s supposed to be Prince Buyeong’s eldest son wrote in the book at PB’s public memorial.
About the red yoyo string, it reminds me of the episode in Hotel del Luna when the deceased fiance wanted to marry her still-living love, and they were tied together with a red string. That was a Hong sisters’ drama, so maybe it is only a coincidence, but I was wondering if there’s something in Korean culture about the significance of red string and love connections. The TK:EM Luna advised precaution so the string wouldn’t break, so that could be a good sign for LG & TE.
@JT7 oh my God, thanks for the pictures 👏👏👏👏
@welmaris holy cow! First drama I watch where there is a blatant reference to intercourse. I love it.
@Welmaris, this red thread was discussed in the last month or so, but I can’t EVEN remember which drama. I think the yoyo red string is Fate and is different from the red thread of love. From wikip: “The two people connected by the red thread are destined lovers, regardless of place, time, or circumstances. This magical cord may stretch or tangle, but never break. This myth is similar to the Western concept of soulmate or a destined partner.” I think Luna may inadvertently been asking about her own red thread fraying.
I don’t like that she needs a transplant to survive her cancer – obvs. Tae-Eul is the donor candidate whose organ won’t be rejected. Interesting that Luna asks about belief in God. Fate believes and Luna responds that she (Luna) will be punished.
@Oli @Kuroshio @pkml3
The thing about Luna’s hair. Two possibilities that I can think of:
1) She’d been maintaining the wig all the time she was on the run and in the Penitentiary. A bit weird but possible.
or… and this is going out on a limb
2) The Luna that was on the motorbike was actually a future TE in disguise. Far enough in the future so that her hair was longer than it had been when she was first brought into KOC. It would however have to have been TE who was already in cahoots with Luna.
The only reason to have on a brown haired wig was to look like Luna at a glance. The real Luna, could then get into ROK, to be with the dad she never knew. This killed 2 birds with 1 stone. It helped Luna who never had a family and home, and TE could ensure that the events would play out exactly as what we saw this episode 11, with the past TE (TE1)in action.
It could also explain how the black-White Rabbit could be seen running at the rowing race and disappear into thin air, and again how LG saw the Rabbit near the race track and ended up in the bamboo forest. It might have been TE dressed as Luna and helping Fate restore the balance.
When Child LG was saved by a person from the future, I always thought it odd that only he was saved. Why not have an earlier arrival by the saviour factored, in to save the King. However we notice from the last episodes ending, that there might be a limit to how much time the saviour/time traveler could be in the past or future, after which he would ‘disappear’. We believe LG went back to save himself.
So in the same way, it might have been TE who went back to save herself and to get LG to follow her into the bamboo forest at the right time, to start the whole ball rolling, after which time she disappeared like LG did in mid-kiss.
This would also solve the problem of TE remaining as Queen in KOC. In ROK, one assumes Luna could get treatment or an organ transplant to save her life. She’d really gain a whole new life. The only problem would be that she’d make a horrible detective LOL.
If LG shut the door permanently on ROK, at least Luna was replacing TE, and they’d have to keep the secret forever. If LG kept the door open, then TE could still go back to see her dad from time to time.
What do you think? 😬 🙄 ☺️
@Juliette @Tomato101 @JT7 @Oli @Bliss
I revisited the exchange between TE & YY Girl and it further puzzled me cos the line being debated on (here & in other forums) is not even in a form of a question. See the transcript below
It was declarative. Not even a question. My assumption is that upon waking up, TE is NOT yet aware she is in Corea cos she fainted at home. So when she woke up, why would she assume she’d be in Corea. That does not make sense. So if this assumption is correct, then her exclamation when she was driving that she was in Corea makes sense.
So perhaps when TE said “BTW, you’re in this world (or side), too”. – she meant the underworld or the world of the thugs?
However, that begs the question: why would YY Girl say “There’s only 1 of me, etc… etc…” Their exchange does not make sense at all!
Some have theorized that from the barn to the car, those are 2 different time loops. But I don’t buy that for that scene./≥…
I explained this already in “Ep 11 Questions and Answers”
She has no idea she was in Corea until she drove away and saw the signage on highway.
@GB I enjoyed reading your views. I agree about the dramatic TV. I enjoyed it so much that I didn’t care about logic. Although, I’d love to think that LG is 600-1000 years old and thus is more confident with a sword.
@Welmaris yeah. Violence is always traumatic. Not just police officers or Army, organizations like MSF (doctors without borders) have debriefing councelling for doctors as well. It’s one thing to look at violence as a third person and make comments (additionally “fake violence” like TV) and one thing to be a spectator or a defender in it.
GB, I like your Second Explanation very much, the (fake Luna)/(disguised TE from the future). That will explain how Luna vanished into thin air like that or appeared out of the blue at the racetrack.
However…(drumroll) I would deplore the action taken by (fake Luna)/(disguised as TE from the future) outside the ice cream parlor where she beat up the guy to within an inch of his life. That’s not the TE we know.
If this kdrama writer has enough time, yes, I can imagine her working a separate time travel story of TaeEul. However, as we only have 5…4 episodes to go through, her priority really is how Lee Gon discovers time travel, and goes back to the 1994. Until now, Lee Gon hasn’t discovered time travel yet and this writer is cutting too close to the end.
True @pkml3.I also agree with what you wrote in the “On Time Loops and Time Travel” post. Show has bitten off such a biggie but we’ve only got 2 scenes that show us this. Which is why proposing time travel for TE is such a ‘scary’ thing to do.
I’d say that Luna is Luna (whatever her real name may be) and that she has her own code of ethics. She almost killed and then threatened the guy who betrayed her with the death of his own son, … nothing shows us for sure, but because of her interactions with Fate, it seems unlikely she’d kill an innocent kid.
It will be problematic if she remained in ROK. I’m thinking that she won’t even bother being like ES who tried to behave like JY. Everyone will notice a strange personality shift, and Shin Jae will know that she’s a replacement doppelganger.
If it was at all likely that Luna and TE are in cahoots over this switch, then it might be meant to be only temporary, to tide over the period when TE had to be in KOC to bring about events of Ep 11/12.
I found Ep 11 to be full of chop-chop. Very fast paced but with events flowing more linearly and flashbacks being helpful. I don’t know if they might manage another onslaught of fast paced scenes in which TE and Luna might be shown to have met. Maybe Fate brings them together in the future (a future within 3 months as Luna is supposed to sick).
But this is all in the realm of conjecture and further out on the limb. So… 🤯 🤪 😏
@packmule3 – EXACTLY!
I just love a strong female character. I was so proud of TE in that final segment of the show. My heart bled for her, but at the same I was in awe of her courage, esp when she was standing in that crossroad.
She was in an impossible situation — alone, deflated & with only 2 bullets left in her revolver – yet she stood her ground, pointed at the oncoming crazy crowd of LR minions (which I could hardly see from her vantage point). She was not gonna go down without a fight! A magnificent display of bravery making her previous pronouncement that she chose to be brave, more relevant & poignant.
Her finally breaking down when she saw LG (and Maximus!) was SO earned. No damsel in distress but at that point, who would not feel relief & salvation when you see reinforcement?
Such a sad but proud moment for the couple. Proclaiming her as the future Queen – GAH! Loooooove it! Love her. Love him.
The Kingdom would be so lucky to have her, in any capacity.
@mychoiyoung I was counting bullets. I think she shot twice at the car tyres, therefore she had only 1 bullet left.
I like your point that she demonstrates truly that she chooses to be brave.
Yes, I think I did see your post on Prince B being ambivalent and suspicious. It was only after seeing his son and the scene of how he told his son off about wanting to visit him during New Year that I started gathering my thoughts on it.
It’s interesting that PB spent New Year morning with LG, and spoke on making choices and determining one’s own fate, but it was PB’s choices that brought about his fate (death) and only after his death, could his son come to visit him. 🙁
Here are two flaws in the episode.
Or at least I consider them to be.
It’s something that hit me in the eye the first time I watched it.
First, there’s a scene where Tae Eul is in a phone booth.
By the way, the actress is fabulous in her performance.
The truck arrives and Tae Eul manages to dodge, she ends up on the ground.
She is very stunned, and the driver of the truck approaches.
HERE PRECISELY:
The scene made me feel like Tae Eul is really fucked up.
I wondered if the script would dare to push the limit, like the writers of Empress Ki do.
It didn’t, since Tae Eul is fighting the trucker.
DEFAULT:
The fight is dispatched in two strikes.
Already unlikely because Tae Eul is in a bad position to give a knockout. Plus, with an ill-fitting punch. But it’s not the realism that bothers me here, more the dramatic aspect.
There, it required a hard and laborious fight. Because the heroine is in a desperate situation, the knife must be driven into the wound!
As an example, refer to the fight in IRIS, when Kim Tae Hee fought an enemy in the NSS infirmary. The opponent does not give her any gifts, it’s violent, long and difficult!
The scene is even better if Tae Eul receives blows, and is about to be finished by the opponent. There is glass on the floor, the opportunity for one of the two opponents to have his face hit on the floor, and have a bloody cheek. Even Tae Eul, the actress can scream! Until the end of the episode, she will have a bleeding face.
At the end of the fight, Tae Eul puts her hand on the gun, and has to kill the man point-blank, she has no choice. Nervous breakdown!
Tae Eul wanders in the street.
An opposing army approaches, invisible at first.
Very good staging, and very good idea here.
However, no opponent has time to approach because…
01:06:15
3 helicopters in the sky, the cavalry comes to the rescue!
Again, this is disappointing from a dramatic point of view.
Imagine the scene, if the army has time to approach?
Tae Eul is totally surrounded.
Can you imagine the expression on her face?
The director can make a shot that revolves around her to recreate Tae Eul’s feeling of vertigo.
And she has a gun in her hand!
You have to force the heroine to do something with it, anything!
– Either she drops the gun because she’s given up hope.
– Or she’s threatening opponents.
And then… She shoots. Once, twice, Click-click-click, no more bullets. Hands shaking.
The army approaches, surrounded three meters away.
The actress can go all the way! Anxiety, terror!
Director: Top view shot, centered on Tae Eul. The camera moves back. When we move back, we can see that there’s a human tide around it. Even from a distance, it’s impossible to see the ground.
Next: we have to push the scene to the end.
She gets beaten up by men with sticks.
Tae Eul gets hit, then she is thrown to the other side of the human circle like a doll, and gets hit by another man, and so on. She tries to fight back, but she’s bound to get beaten up.
Tae Eul is defeated, she ends up on her knees in the middle of the circle.
One of the men breaks away from the others, he enters the circle, near Tae Eul. The killer has a shotgun and points it at Tae Eul.
Kric Krac… We make the spectator understand that he’s going to shoot.
POOOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The killer’s skull is blown off!
Shlaaa, bits of brains splashing on Tae Eul (humm, I’m getting carried away, this must not be possible in kdrama ^^)
And here, seen from the sky: a sniper in a helicopter has just shot the killer.
Shots of the 3 helicopters, then the rest of the scene, as seen in the episode.
While waiting for the next episode, kill time by adding more to discussion 🙂
@WEnchanteur
After seeing ep11, what I would really like to happen is that they reedit the first few episodes to be just as clear as this one… There may be some that are not salvageable due to lack of footages/film/require new takes, but I see many that can be easily changed to make it a bit better, eg sequences like the ones you mentioned in your post where the reverse time direction in LR’s umbrella caused much confusion, or adjustment of the background/ambient sound. I am actually drafting a longish comment on your “Analysis of Episode 3” but I will say the general gist of it here, I am with you when the cause and effect is not clear, whether it be from the script or direction, both require that they be executed correctly before the message can be delivered to the viewer clearly. Its just like telling a joke… some people just cannot delivery the punchline properly: just because you understand the points and highlights of the joke doesn’t mean that you can do it and make people laugh. There’s presetup, timing, execution, etc, even the consideration on what kind of audience the joke is being delivered to (e.g. math derivative, integral and limit jokes won’t work w people who don’t understand precalculus). Its really not as easy as it looks, and from my perspective TKEM suffered from this for the first half of its run. I don’t know if the additional director happened with ep8, but starting from there, the quality steadily went up. Lets hope it maintains this quality (and hopefully even better) all the way til the end.
One thing, I really wish they would include the translation for certain Korean texts, esp when it seems obvious that its somewhat important. They did it when LG looked at what JTE searched in KOC when she used her phone, I wish they would be consistent in doing the same for all the others. E.g In the past, things like what LG searched in his ROK phone that was given to him by JTE (because I feel the whole scene loses its meaning if you don’t understand it) there are still others I think its just not coming back to me at the moment.
For ep11, things like:
1. what the PM posted (shown in the iPad) that made LG angry
2. As well as the words written by the elder son on the funeral notebook (when they were announcing the beheading)
It makes it seem like international viewers/netflix viewers are just an afterthought. Hum!
@Bliss to be honest, I feel there is some significance in that warehouse scene and the conversation you highlighted. Its just not clicking for me. I’m just putting it at the back of my head at the moment to decide if it really is a continuity error. I feel it needs to be looked into further 🙂 So, I actually have to thank you for pointing that scene out ^_^
@Phoenix Thank you for the welcome! I don’t think anyone can deny that cavalry scene (its setup of helicopters, police, swat teams arriving, and the succeeding actions afterwards, with LG arriving on Maximus – I mean prince on a white horse, REALLY! 😀 ) was very well done and pure drama. Lol the segment was made to make LG/LMH shine, and he did (With some suspension of belief involved, but it was still fun to watch nevertheless.)
@GB @mychoiyoung Yeah, and I loved that JTE was such a badass. This show really is turning the tables and the girl really is playing a lot of typically expected lead guy roles (both in romance and in action). She still needed the saving but I agree she was no damsel in distress, she totally earned it. It was like tired, beaten Aragorn in the LOTR 2 Two Towers when he charge towards the orcs just right before the coming of dawn.
@Alxmar97 not a dirty mind, I think they implied it. Not necessarily sex, but he could’ve pushed a little more like not just a peck on the lips, or a bit more hugging. Haha the guy is a gentleman that thinks the girl is fragile. Thats why I love JTE, the girl is the one initiating/leading a lot whats happening.. not assisting, but proactively leading. Even the murders, it was her initiative to tell LG about it. If she stayed meek and fragile none of all this would It is really a refreshing change in terms of female leads. Packmule3 was totally correct when she pointed this out a few weeks back in a previous post. Its one thing when its about romance, but JTE is also an active, leading participant in what happens in the show. All her actions and decisions have direct impact to the story.
Finally the time freezing problem. I think that will be handled AFTER LG defeats LR. It’ll be the last problem he needs to solve to find his elegant answer. In the end, I really think I’ll be his kingly duty vs the woman he loves. (I really wish JTE death doesn’t happen, too complicated and I don’t want to be depressed, she’s such an awesome female lead) He can hardly fool around and visit his gf in the other world anymore, that’s going to have consequences too… doing that too often will freeze both worlds, and he’ll be the cause of it even if LR wasn’t around. Right there, sacrifice will be required. Ah, really want to see how the whole plot will be resolved. Such a nice story KES whipped up 🙂
After seeing ep12 –
Ah, so nice to see such a nicely structured episode again. Its much better than the previous episode, and has decently done fluff that’s not cheesy and do not make me cringe. Somehow I miss the PPLs lol
@WEnchanteur I have a suspicion this segment in ep2 may bothered you also. Currently writing a long comment just about this:
HAHAHAH … I finally find some answer to the question of “who is the mom in ep2 who threw a birthday party for her disabled child”. Took them so long to reintroduce her again. They really need to do some reedits.
re ep11, that scene where JTE was in the middle of the road, your suggested version is better. I do remmeber thinking that the first incoming wave of people were LG’s guys going to save her already, and not LR’s henchmen. With her gun pointed that that general direction, I actually cannot see the “sea of henchmen” coming towards her. I replayed that segment several times just to peek and see if i can see the sea of baddies coming towards her, but fail to see anything 🙂
As usual JTE rocked. LMH is surprisingly acting quite well alongside KGO. (i’m a KGO fan) Loved the ending with Lady Noh.
Probably comment more later. I just want to do my happy dance first to celebrate a well done episode ^^
Lady noh seems like know something 🤭
The last scene left big question?
she ask jte about what happened during war that broke in june, 1950? 🤭
Bcs she left her hometown and never heard news for 67yr
Does she also came from korea?
🤭
Thanks, Tomato101, for the spoilers!!! 🙂
So Lady Noh is from ROK，never saw that twist coming！Is there another sad love story?
PM Koo was the one JY saw in the milk tea shop. Her trip to ROK must’ve been arranged by Lee Rim. Why would she take such a risk at this stage when is not yet clear that LR will win? This episode has provoked more questions than providing answers.
@Alxmar97, you got your wish. LG made good with his promise to be not so considerate. 😝
@Tomato101 yes !! I thought the reunion was done so much better than the previous works of LMH (I have seen Legend of the blue sea in its entirety and BOF and city hunter in bits and pieces. Couldn’t find it in me to complete them 🙊). He was far more convincing in the expression of his emotions than I’ve found him in the aforementioned works.
With you on the ending as well. (Insert thumps up emicon. Can’t find it at the moment and need to run) where is life going? Now I can’t find the emoji I require!
Btw @Phoenix thank you for your warm invitation to the shallow island… And the offer for alcohol. After ep 11 and 12, would love to have some with you by the bay. 🙂
I never thought I’d actually like watching LMH in a drama. As in viewing him in particular in addition to the drama for its content or story. This quarantine has been a string of never did I thought I’d ever ! 🙈
Episode 12.
First live commentary at +05:00.
It’s miraculous!
The beginning of the episode relates the kind of scenes we don’t usually understand.
Minor (and often useless) characters, different places and worlds, dooplegangers.
Everything in there is 10x what was enough to confuse episodes 1-10.
There, the understanding is perfect, despite the incredible difficulty to make it understandable.
When the woman tries to commit suicide and is helped by a nurse: note the mini-flashback, it was this character seen in episode 2.
The cutting is nervous. Note the shot changes.
Let’s see if the rest of the episode will maintain rhythm and clarity.
I dive into it, I don’t want to spend my time analyzing while I watch.
@GB:
“TE too is portrayed as being fantastic…she stood up over and over again to defend herself and to attack.”
Absolutely! JTE was awesome in Ep.11! No damsel in distress this! She managed to save herself again and again, kept her presence of mind even when she was being chased and was so courageous in taking a last stance in what she knew would be a losing battle as she was one against many. I love her never-give-up spirit..so cool! Worthy of a queen!!
Episode 12: Why did Lee Gon shoot the last two bullets in Tae Eul’s gun?
I really enjoyed this episode and am shocked that Lady Noh was from ROK. This means that past Kings had known about the flute and used it as well? I wonder who brought her over…?
Why did Lee Gon cry when time froze in front of the cathedral? Was he afraid of losing Tae Eul because of the portal closing?
Why is Tae Eul the only one unscathed from the lightning?
I’m enjoying Luna’s badass character…she really made Lee Rim angry with her barging into hsi house/lair….yet she crossed over to ROK…I wonder whose side she is on…
@Pikapika That was a very nice touch in the script actually… she just cried saying “I missed you” many many times, showing how frantic she is, and then immediately right after, she still has the brain function to be a responsible police, and say there’s two bullets left. LG discharged the gun, I believe, for safety. He could have removed the bullets though, so i guess that might also be for dramatic effect. 🙂
As for the cathedral scene, this is my take, not sure if the others see it the same way, but he wanted to spend time with her… and then time stopped. How can you enjoy time with someone who is frozen… and it is also a reminder to him that time will eventually freeze for them, especially her. She’s almost as good as dead/gone in that scenario, and she wont even have a life afterwards to live if time really freezes forever.
About episode 12, so i guess kim sa wol is Lady Noh lover in ROK? That is why every voice over using Lady Noh voice when read poem?
Why does lightning disease affect some people?
My guess is that it affects people who traveled from one world to another, but whose clone was killed. It breaks the balance. That’s why Tae Eul isn’t affected, because Luna is still alive. The PM Koo is also not affected (we assume so because the video footage doesn’t show her in the list of victims).
@WEnchanteur wasn’t PM koo was affected, and it happened in front of LG when they were talking?
Roundup of ppl who are in pain/not in pain
1. Have lightning scar/in pain: LR, Lee sang do, lee gon, some henchmen, LR right hand man(on feet), pm koo
2. No scar: JTE/Luna , pregnant girl
3. Unverified: Jy/eunsup, Nari/myeong, SJ, PM doppleganger
Shouldn’t the pregnant girl (ROK) be dead already? Also if PM koo is having it, we’re not sure if her doppleganger is still alive
@WEnchanteur I was just going to say the same too! I think only those who have crossed worlds, whose doppelgängers have been intentionally killed have the lightning scar. Which is why TE is not affected, as well as Jo Yeong & Eun sup. (And I guess Lady Noh too). Whereas those who are affected have had their doppelgängers killed: LG, LL, LL’s men who crossed over, and the bookstore guy. If so, PM Koo’s double must have been killed too since she also has the scar?
I have to agree with you @tomato101, I’m enjoying seeing LMH act in the past 2 episodes, there’s more depth now compared to earlier on!
@Nita
Kim Sowol (1902-1934) was a famous Korean poet. Since he died in 1934, he couldn’t really be Lady Noh’s (born in1932) lover. His poem collection Azaleas was published in 1925. Lady Noh, who left ROK in 1950 when the Korean War just broke out, probably is familiar with his work. Kim’s many poems are featured in Korean textbooks, so his poems are well known by the Korean people. LG doesn’t know about Kim Sowol in episode 2, so Kim Sowol is not part of KOC’s literary history. When lady Noh saw the book Azaleas that LG brought over, she realizes that LG has been traveling to ROK.
Oh can I say, I really loved how LG calmly discharged the gun, picked TE up, gave instructions to his sub-captain then carried her all the way back to the palace? (In contrast, I remember how my hubby groaned when he watched CLOY & saw all the soldiers crying over Seri being shot “come on, man, stop crying and stop the bleeding!) I think I’m def a permanent resident on shallow island now 😛
It’s tempting to comment on episodes 11 and 12 in detail, but it would take so long.
Episode 12 takes up the challenge of episode 11, and the drama is now interesting to see. It finally produces the “addictive” effect that drama is supposed to have.
Not everything is perfect though!
But here, some of the weaknesses are due to flaws from previous episodes. Some useless characters are dragged around like cannonballs.
The woman of episode 2: if this character was not useful before episode 12, what’s the point of wasting a scene that scatters the viewer’s attention during episode 2? A scene that brings a lot of confusion moreover! At the beginning, we tend to confuse this woman with the widow of the King of ROK. She has a handicapped child. I even wondered if it wasn’t a flashback with Lee Lim’s clone as a child.
Does it matter if we have a background for this minor character?
No, to me, it doesn’t. I’m already willing to fire much more important characters for the sake of the story.
The old prince, of course. That character has never been of any use. Not only that, but he’s got scenes all to himself! If you look closer, anything the old prince can bring to the story could have been done by Lady Noh. For example, the advices he gives in end episode 9, and at the beginning of episode 10, there’s the poem in voice-over (same voice as Lady Noh).
When this character dies, the viewer doesn’t care. He doesn’t care, or for me, I’m relieved. But it’s not over yet. In a drama, we try to bring emotion to the characters who die. Often after the fact… Usually it’s successful. But not for him. We don’t care about that at all. Result: Scenes from episode 11 waste time. Time that could have been used for a thrilling scene. Modify the two scenes at the end of the episode as I suggested for example.
Sin-Jay : if you want to fire characters, you might as well choose some that will free up a lot of time. I’m not convinced of the usefulness of this guy. Besides, he’s dull.
Episode 12.
21:10
One of the best moments, Lee Gon runs to Tae Eul in the middle of the street after the battle. (Battle a little short, by the way…). So there, sublime music, emotion at the top. Yeah! That’s what I like in a drama. Simple, effective, well done, powerful. You can feel the emotion.
Overall, the episode has great music all the way through. The songs too. First appearance of the sung version of “If Only”. (53:40)
31:30, I don’t know that OST song. During drama, it goes well.
01:05:30, it farts terrible! I feel like I’m hearing one of the background music of The Last Empress !
Little moment of genius concerning the script : Time freezes just as they take a picture. The time starts again, click, the picture is taken. They “freeze” on the picture.
Another successful moment: the King’s jacket. I don’t know how, but the scene makes me understand that in the scene of the purple flower bouquet, the King was from the future. So it’s not the King we see now. Maybe it’s because I read this blog. In that case, it’s a very bad reason, because the spectator is supposed to guess without anyone’s help. So I don’t know if it’s supposed to be guessed here, or if it’s supposed to take place in a later plot-twist. Awkward.
Kim Go Eun is a very good actress. But right now, Lee Min Ho is in one of his surprising moments. He’s giving much more than usual. Just that, it helps the drama a lot! He’s still the main character. ^^
The cliffhanger: It’s a failure!!! Fail!
I don’t know if it’s successful if it’s a Korean looking, and not a Westerner.
There’s a little latency when Lady Noh talks about “the 1950 war”.
We ask ourselves the question, logically we deduce that it could be the Korean War. But we are not sure of anything. And at that moment, it’s too late, the credits have already fallen! LOL!
Conclusion: don’t build a cliffhanger on the sole value of a dialog sentence! You need to bring something else to confirm the impact. Something that leaves no room for doubt, and that you understand very quickly.
@Tomato101
PM Koo lighting.
I writed that before and of the episode.
I apologize !!! 😉
So I guessed wrong.
@Tomato 101 the cathedral scene broke my heart (again a first with LMH. The way he was overcome with emotion seemed so spontaneous.)… But why does he need to cry alone like that ? As @mychoiyoung, @GB, @phoenix note, TE is the hero we all love. If she can carry around Shin Jae on those able shoulders, LG is no biggie. LG, in fact, is the love that she’ll gladly carry all the burdens for. She’ll take his tears and not flinch, not hide, not run away either. She’ll stand by him, and be his rock. That much faith he should have in her.
@JaT7 True..one does love a man like that who can take charge in a crisis situation coolly, and carry his lady love in his arms all the way without breaking a sweat **swoon**
#GoShallowIslandGo 🙌
*JT7..sorry
@Arihsi I think he cried because he wished he could preserve these happy times with her and knew that this would not last. Both the worlds are heading to some sort of destruction..as LG had calculated..did anyone else notice that seemingly random shot in the middle somewhere focusing on the mathematical equation and number circled on LG’s board?
Also LG by nature is a lone warrior who is used to taking huge decisions on his own..as he has been shouldering the whole kingdom’s responsibilities since childhood. So I think he wants to protect TE from the truth and doesn’t want to make her more worried about how this will all end. He must sense she’s worried enough as it is.
@WEnchanteur, yes, that cliffhanger was totally lost on me.
Had no clue she was talking about the Korean war until I read it here…
While watching the scene I thought she was maybe asking about some war in Corea that TE couldn’t possible know about. To test that she really was from a different world.
That didn’t make much sense.
I guess I should have guessed she was talking about events that happened in Korean history. But how would a person not familiar with that know? 😐
Also, I like the theory that lightning only affects those who crossed portals and who’s doppelganger was killed.
Shin Jae seems fine though. Could it be because his doppelganger died a natural death, so it really has to be murder
@oli
The scene with Lady Noh should’ve been moved up and placed before the scene with PM Koo.
The part where PM Koo has lightning sickness in front of the king could have made a better cliffhanger. At least, more evident.
For the scene with Lady Noh: it was enough for the character to show a photo at the same time. For example, soldiers with a very obvious flag of South Korea.
@Phoenix yes I did see that number ! And going by that LEe Gon was crying for a good hour because te should have stopped for over an hour at that point going by the calculations on the board. They probably couldn’t show the time “flowing” as he cried because well. It wasn’t 🙊 but going by the clock, it should have been 80+ minutes that he would have cried.
*time should have
Hello, everybody! This swedish ahjumma have finally ended the lurking in the shadows!
Reading your discussions about this drama have given me a lot of ”aha-moments” and insights about this complicated story. Most of witch I would never have been able to find out on my own. A huge THANK YOU to Packmule and all you clever Bitches!
Regarding the end of Ep 12:
Ms Noh said that she was born in Pyoksong. I googled it and learned that it is located in North Korea! A fact that gives her question about ”that war” a whole new meaning and emotional impact. I do not envy TE the task of telling her about the Korean war and the current situation i NK…
I haven’t checked if her family members are real people, but from the way that she told their names to TE, I wonder if they can be important for the story, somehow. Why else would their names be told at all?
Are they perhaps well known historical people, whose names the South Korean viewers can easily recognize? Hmmmm….
So far it is shaping up that the scar appears on people who
1. Have crossed the portal
2. Have doppelgangers who got murdered — not just died of natural causes.
I don’t consider the scar though as punishment. It is all about balance. As the Yoyo Kid said “I am trying to restore balance”
Murder is against nature cos it s not yet time for the murdered doppelganger to leave their world. That’s why there is an imbalance And the scar is a consequence or manifested warning of such imbalance.
Then we should also not forget the other condition — they have crossed-over or are still crossing-over. Which means they are or have been in worlds or spaces where they do not belong. There is already an imbalance in both worlds and then we have characters “abusing” the use of the flute – a broken one at that.
Perhaps there is a need to restore the flute, not just to close the gates. Perhaps there is a higher reason why the flute only shows itself every 20 years. Perhaps it was never meant to be used arbitrarily. Some rules must be kept.
Imbalance & abuse, that’s what am thinking now but still studying it. LOL, I even created an excel table to establish the pattern. This show, haha.
Welcome on board. If you have time, do you mind checking out the names of the family members. See if you can come up with something then share with us. Thanks!!🙂
Good points, mychoiyoung.
— wait. Does this mean Koo killed her doppelgänger?! Or had her killed? Oh wow.
Share the excel table here *if you want.* Or email it to me. I’ll post it here so we can analyze together. 🙂
JY – A déjà vu?
Nari – Yes. A déjà vu actually occurs when your frequency matches that of another world and you get a glimpse of yourself in that world. You know that I used to be in the radio club, right?
JY – But why are you mentioning that right now?
Nari – I saw myself just now. But I was with someone who looks exactly like you. My doppelganger had short hair, and your doppelganger was in a hospital gown.
JY – A hospital gown?
Are you guys rethinking about all the times you’ve had déjà vu?
Hello everyone. Great episode. No questions this time, I feel like everything will be revealed at the right time. But, may I just say how impressed I’m with LG?!? He’s really not afraid of a good ol’ bloodbath.
And about the preview. I’m still not sure about Luna’s intentions 🤔 maybe I’m being naive, but she doesn’t seem completely evil, I don’t think. And she’s pissing LL off, which I’m all for it 😆 maybe he finally chose someone he can’t really control
@Bliss I have the same feeling. I think trying to use Luna and Shin Jae in the same way as the rest of his doppelgangers will be the fault in Lee Lim’s plan. These two can take the other side by pretending to be on Lee Lim’s – like double agents. Maybe Lee Lim got too sure of his power and control over his puppets but I feel the show is trying to show that people who are intrinsically good can’t be manipulated. Even when their circumstances are dire and they are tempted they eventually will not succumb to the temptation. I think these two are crucial pieces in the whole story whose loyalties will have a major role to play in tje resolution.
@packmule3 I also think PM Koo’s doppelganger in ROK has already been killed by Lee Lim or Koo herself. LL must have reached out to her and got her on his side (I think that scene ahere she smiles at seeing LG’s pain was shown to indicate she is on the other side).
Thanks, Phoenix, for the update. Will watch it tonight. Have to write a post for the Hospital Playlist first.
@Summerwind525 Thanks for the info on the Korean poet, Kim Sowool.
@mychoiyoung @Arihsi Yes, going by the equation, time is freezing for longer and longer progressively. So LG must have been watching a frozen JTE for more than an hour and crying.
@mychoiyoung I truly admire JTE’s courage in the face of defeat too. She never gives up!
@John L: That reference by Nari was just creepy. That was the exact time the two pairs of doppelgangers were having conversation in two parallel worlds I’ve been wondering – if sometimes one doppelganger can experience the other’s world for a split second (like Yeong and Eun Sub felt their hot/cold coffee sensation), wouldn’t it have been more interesting if one doppelganger could feel it when the other died in the parallel world? 🤔🤔
About my thoughts when I’ve experienced deja-vu moments, now I’ll add a parallel universe theory to a probable past life theory too😝😝
Do you “déjà vu” often, John L? I can’t remember the last time I had a déjà vu. I must be an insensitive type.
I think Nari’s been getting vision of her self as SeongAh. That’s why she was experimenting with a new hairstyle before. 🙂
I love reading all the comments and analysis here on this site! Thanks guys for all the inputs.
@Wenchanteur and @JT7 – Yes! I noticed that only those with dead/murdered doppelgangers have the scar. That would mean PM Koo’s doppelganger in ROK is dead. I don’t think she’d kill the doppelganger herself. PM Koo doesn’t seem the type to do the dirty work.
@Tomato101 – Pregnant girl in ROK (we see her in the care facility that TE visited) doesn’t seem to have been moved to KOC yet. She knew that she was going to have a baby girl but her counterpart in KOC sat in for lunch with PM Koo saying she hoped to have a baby boy as she didn’t know the gender of her child yet. She and TE have no scars to show.
@Arihsi – I love your comment “LG, in fact, is the love that she’ll gladly carry all the burdens for”. Maybe that’s the reason why she never did mention to him that they met “again” (after the hugging scene at the bamboo grove) with him wearing the coat and giving her flowers. TE knew that future LG was bogged down with sadness and regret (maybe because of her?) Telling him she never liked flowers might just change the course of that future self.
@mychoiyoung – Could the lightning scars placement be at the final blow that killed their doppelgangers? It was different for each person.
@Bliss – Yes, same here! Not sure about where they’re taking Luna’s character but I think she agreed to steal TE’s persona not so much to be LL’s pawn. We see her talking back at him and defiantly stealing money too! I think Luna wants to experience the kind of life TE had surrounded by family, friends, and colleagues. This was evident when she had TE’s phone and she quickly scrolled through the detective photos and concentrated in looking at the pictures of family and friends. Ep. 13’s preview also shows her talking to TE’s dad and kissing Sin-jae. Now I want to see their reaction to Luna’s actions.
@Wenchanteur – I totally agree that the cliffhanger was a fail. IMO, it would’ve been better if the last scene was the one where PM Koo confronts LG with her scar showing at the end.
Overall though, Episode 11 and 12 were so much better in pacing and story-telling! You can really see why Kim Go Eun is such a terrific actress as she brings depth to her characters. Lee Min Ho is also a revelation in these episodes with the change of persona. Can’t wait to see Episode 13!
In episode 12, at 34:12 (I am using WatchAsian) appears the name of the flower Tae-Eul brought from the Kingdom of Corea: lycoris squamigera maxim.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lycoris_squamigera
Regrettably I haven’t found what it means in the language of flowers.
@JohnL, I took the deja vu moment to be another side effect whenever someone crosses the portal. Aside from time freezing, we’ve had instances where others have caught glimpses of their doubles whenever the portal was used, like TE catching a glimpse of Luna in her rearview mirror. Also, Nari said it was a moment when you get a glimpse of yourself in the other world. I think Nari’s deja vu moment coincided with the time PM Koo crossed over to ROK.
@kdramakat interesting point about placement of the scars, but I think probably not? Lee Sang do’s double’s scar was on his tummy, but if I recall he was killed by a blow to head?
I think we can assume that the show shows us those who are afflicted by the lightening scar, to allow us to make certain deductions & assumptions:
1. Like mentioned, only those who have crossed & have had their doubles killed are affected: LG, LL, Lee Sang Do, the bookshop owner. It doesn’t have to be LL doing the killing, since the bookshop owner’s double was killed by LG’s royal guards.
2. Those who have crossed the portal but have doubles who are still alive are not affected: TE & Luna, JY & ES, possibly pregnant lady (not sure if she has crossed yet, but we do see that both ladies are still alive)
3. This means for those who have crossed & have the scar, we can assume their double has been killed: PM Koo
4. And for those who have crossed & have no scar, we can assume their double is alive, or died of natural causes: Sin Jae (I am assuming his double died during illness & LL brought him to ROK to replace him), & maybe Lady Noh.
I found it sad to see how LG’s double’s mother in ROK was suffering so much agony. She wouldn’t be afflicted with a scar (if we take the assumptions above) if she had to cross over to KOC, but she bears so many physical (from her numerous suicide attempts) & mental scars thanks to LL.
I loved how LG chose to give TE a necklace with a plum blossom. Plum blossoms are a symbol of resilience and perseverance in the face of adversity, since plum trees bloom during winter… so fitting for our brave TE.
Oh, & it’s such sweet irony that LG keeps threatening to behead TE, when he’s the one that has lost his head when falling in love with her. Keeping her in his chambers even though it would cause so much talk in the palace, dressing up in his uniform (& for a mathematician his cooking estimates are so off, why wash an entire bag of rice for a meal for 1, LOL)… And TE literally wears the pants in this relationship, when confronted with racks of clothes, she still goes for her pants haha!
Thanks for the info on the flowers and the link, @FGB4877! I like the look of those flowers. I also like that the other names for it are magic lily, surprise lily and resurrection lily, because the buds seem to suddenly bloom. That sounds nice!
Applying it to our show, I’d like to think that the magic that sets things to rights, which might actually be the magic of the goodness in people, gets to bloom so unexpectedly, that it takes LL unprepared.
Thoughts of what @pkml3 and other commenters say, about how LL missed the point. It is not choosing the sword to strike down opponents that makes one mighty or gives one the right to rule, it is the choice to do good with one’s power that gives the authentic authority and right of might.
Therefore (like dear Voldermort) he will be blind to the intrinsic goodness in people like TE, Luna, SJ, JY, ES and LG, which will be his undoing. In addition, in this show, we have a Fate who is not impartial, therefore despite the next conflict that is bound to come, causing distress for the good guys, I imagine, we will see that what LL considers weak, will be turned on its head to stab him.
It will be nice to hear the voice of KES through this show, to hear what it is that she considers Fate. So far I’m getting the repeated message that it’s pretty much what we choose to do. We see that Fate may start off by choosing people who more on the side of right, and gives help, but allows individuals to decide the right thing to do.
May the magic lily bloom beautifully! 😁
@JT7 Great comment, insights and elucidation!
@JT7:
“Keeping her in his chambers even though it would cause so much talk in the palace, dressing up in his uniform (& for a mathematician his cooking estimates are so off, why wash an entire bag of rice for a meal for 1”.
Yes, in the middle of all the bloodshed and foreshadow of danger from LL< I really liked how the episode balanced that with the sweet moments between our couple. How caring LG is towards TE by breaking all his protocols for her. That rice washing scene was so cute – so much like a man in love who is trying his best to make his lady happy, in spite of so many life-and-death things on his mind.
This is why I'm firmly on Shallow Island on #TeamLeeGon!
@GB:
“Therefore (like dear Voldermort) he will be blind to the intrinsic goodness in people like TE, Luna, SJ, JY, ES and LG, which will be his undoing. In addition, in this show, we have a Fate who is not impartial, therefore despite the next conflict that is bound to come, causing distress for the good guys, I imagine, we will see that what LL considers weak, will be turned on its head to stab him.”
Hear! Hear! I feel the same. It is a classic fight of good against evil and I don’t think fate will be capricious enough to let evil win in the end.
@kdramakat: This is somehow so touching:
“Maybe that’s the reason why she never did mention to him that they met “again” (after the hugging scene at the bamboo grove) with him wearing the coat and giving her flowers. TE knew that future LG was bogged down with sadness and regret (maybe because of her?) Telling him she never liked flowers might just change the course of that future self.”
I think both of them are trying to shield each other from pain and worries about the future, so that they can at least enjoy the present. Remember they have had this conversation a number of times – since we don’t know what the future may bring and how long we may have together, let us not spend the present discussing about what may go wrong but what we have between us now. I think this makes LG and TE so realistic, and true to the kind of level-headed and brave people they are.
Just watched ep12. I’m gonna shallow-island it here:
DID THEY DO IT? 😲😲😲😲 If so,
How cool would it be if TE gets pregnant. I mean, two worlds tied by a kid. Hear me out, KES.
@GrowingBeautifully, I am glad you enjoyed seeing the flowers. We kept wondering about them several episodes ago, so it was a treat to get information on them. The fact that they become full flowers after only 5 days after emergence makes me think of a sudden, unexpected gift. Like trying to get someone’s head around a lifelong mystery and finding another world, new friends and a loved one as a side effect =D .
And yes, when you asked about what did Lee Lim want, I wrote to you that
“Dear @GrowingBeautifully, my guess is that Lee Lim is kind of a dog chasing a Truck of Doom XD .
Let me explain myself: he is after absolute power, time-travelling and dimension jumping all at the same time.
First of all, he desires way too many things at the same time, “El que mucho abarca, poco aprieta” (the one who tries to do many things at once will have himself accidentally droping many since he can not micromanage all that complexity).
Second, he doesn’t understand the rules nor the entities (or persons) involved. He still thinks that persons are easily reduced to their baser instincs and needs.
So Lee Lim basically wants a lots of things that are both pretty harmful and beyond his imagination, the ramification of his careless decisions left to the wind (you could say a butterfly effect: small variations in initial conditions causes huge result discrepancies in the long run).
Hope it helps =D ”
He doesn’t understand the final implications of what he does, since he believes he is above all. He believes he can reduce any person to its baser instincts and wants, so he doesn’t understand how variable and complex everyone is. And some aspirations like the desire of transcendence (you could say, the desire to do what is good) he cannot understand. That will be his downfall.
On another note, Lee Gon is vulnerable because he has loved ones but he is not alone. Lee Lim is alone in his very personal god-like ivory tower. He has no other voice to complement his worldview, and even if he sometimes takes someone else’s suggestion, he does not have loyalty. That much NoName can grasp.
“We kept wondering about them several episodes ago, so it was a treat to get information on them. The fact that they become full flowers after only 5 days after emergence makes me think of a sudden, unexpected gift.”
@FGB4877: I loved knowing about the flowers. Have been wondering about them – such usual color and texture. Magic lily, surprise lily and resurrection lily (because the buds seem to suddenly bloom) – sounds just perfect for the context.
Totally agree with what GB has pointed out:
“Applying it to our show, I’d like to think that the magic that sets things to rights, which might actually be the magic of the goodness in people, gets to bloom so unexpectedly, that it takes LL unprepared.”
Hoping good will always triumph over evil. I think the sword and fate will restore the balance (and hopefully with least number of casualties on #TeamLeeGon in the process 🙂 )
To me the cliffhanger of episode 12 worked very well when I was watching it for the first time. Although not Korean, I knew that the Korean War broke out in the early 50s. I think the cliffhanger would work with its intended main audience. Every Korean would know the significance of 1950. What 1950 means to Korean people would be similar to what 1776 means to Americans. Lady Noh being born in ROK was a twist that I doubt anybody saw it coming. （at least, I haven’t seen it be predicted by anyone on any drama forums) one the other hand, PM Koo’s trip to ROK was strongly hinted during her conversation with the pregnant girlfriend at the restaurant. So scar showing up on the neck is just a confirmation to what we already suspected. (It was only surprising in the sense that her doppelgänger maybe dead)
Personally, I don’t like everything spelled out for me. Cliffhanger in episode 12 is the best cliffhanger in the series because it is the most shocking.
Again, thank you for all of your wonderfully thought-provoking posts. As always, I enjoyed them very much.
@Again, thank you for all of your wonderfully thought-provoking posts. As always, I enjoyed them very much.
@GB Love your theory! I was so confused about how come Luna had got into the Palace and disappeared!!On her feet!
The poem that Lady Dragon recited in Ep10 is a little bit difficult for me to understand. So I found a version,translated by David McCann, is more easier to me.
Hope this helps anyone who needs it too.
Steam
For what reason
do you act that way?
Staying on alone by the stream
when green grass shoots
push their way up
and wavelets ruffle up in the spring wind
I think over your promise
that going away
is not really going
Each day coming out
to sit by the inlet
I keep turning it over my mind
Going away
is not really going
Isn’t that your asking me not to forget?
@kuroshio What a beautifully poignant poem!
Going away is not really going..
Loved it. Thanks for posting it 😊
Share the excel table here *if you want.* Or email it to me. I’ll post it here so we can analyze together.
@packmule3 – here you go. It is a work in progress so you can see I still have not marked the PM’s doppelganger as killed. But if the pattern holds (those in red font), it could explain away her scar
https://i.imgur.com/14uK9qn.png
@Fern @Welmaris and @Growing Beautifully (GB),
“thinking she should just take the truck”. Probably prudent. Would need special driving licence and would get a DWI (or DUI).
Previous to that I expected TE to shoot at the tire/s of the other car before she sped off.
@FGB4877 you said —
“Lee Lim is alone in his very personal god-like ivory tower. He has no other voice to complement his worldview, and even if he sometimes takes someone else’s suggestion, he does not have loyalty.”
Well LR has the PM now. Such power-hungry duo. How long this alliance will last? Just a matter of time before they betray each other. It is in their nature.
And I firmly believe that LR’s undoing is his complete lack of faith in humanity. Greed is his only currency so everyone is corruptible. But as @GB beautifully said “… the magic that sets things to rights, which might actually be the magic of the goodness in people, gets to bloom so unexpectedly, that it takes LL unprepared.”
With their scars burning them up, here’s wishing for LR & PM Koo to just vanish into air same way that Valdemort did!
Several episodes ago PM Koo’s mother told Koo about a nightmare she’d had, and thought it might be a warning to her daughter. Maybe it was a premonition about what would happen to her daughter’s doppelganger. The nightmare included a car accident.
If Koo could present her ROK doppelganger’s ID when asked by TE, I suspect Koo’ ROK double was already dead by that time.
We now know HCL Noh came to KOC long before LL and LG were using their halves of Manpasikjeok to travel between the worlds. I wonder when the time-stop effect started during portal use. LL traveled between worlds before LG made his first trip, but neither was aware of the time stop until LG put his half of Manpasikjeok into use. Was that the beginning of the accumulation of time during the stop?
Something has changed to make the lightning scar show up on portal travelers other than those who hold halves of Manpasikjeok. What could it be? Is it that LG has also now killed people?
@mychoiyoung, shooting out the tires of the other car would have been brilliant. Perhaps she wanted to save the bullets.
I had a weird feeling about the two bullets left. Somewhere, NOT in this drama, there was a quote ‘One for me and one for you.’ There must be a reason why LG discharged the last two to have 0 bullets left.
Did anyone else think that it was strange that TE’s bandages and wounds disappeared in the scene at the church? Am I missing something? They were still very visible when she was getting ready to go out. I was worried that it was Luna for a minute.
@Fern Interesting point that about the bullets to ensure there are no more bullets left to shoot each other (and commit suicide in the face of sure defeat?)
Regarding the bandages, I had a feeling a few more days had passed while TE recovered at the palace. Remember they go to meet ES in hospital the very next day. At that time she still looks battered with bruises and bandages. But later when they go to the warehouse where TE was held after being kidnapped and later go to the church, this seemed to be after a few more days of recovery in KOC. So she must have been healed enough by then as no scars were showing on her face anymore.
@WEnchanteur. I realised that I’ve yet to do a proper slower re-watch of Episode 12… but my first impression is that so much time was spent ‘resting’ and ‘romancing’. Now I’m the one getting impatient. I want the pace of action on planning how to defeat LR started already. I want to see our good guys being deployed effectively rather than left wondering and waiting. LOL. Too much down time I felt … I guess I belong on Cynical Island after all.
@Arihsi @Tomato101 About the Time FREEZE being the last problem. Yes… it’s a problem that will hang on til the end because there is no other way to travel from one world to another.
TE said to JY that no trace of the other world should be in hers and vice versa. I’m not sure if this means all the KOC people will need to return to KOC or not (and vice versa). And I don’t think it will be possible to do. Those who died should not ‘resurrect’ and someone like HCL Noh for eg. has no home now in ROK to return to.
The end may be that the door will just have to be locked (and the key/flute to be destroyed or whatever) so that there will be no chance for time to FREEZE eternally. How sad for LG to be the only moving being eternally in a static world. No wonder he shed tears for TE and himself and everyone.
If knowledge of this became public, the flute may be taken by force and destroyed before LG can complete the work of defeating LL completely. LG may never divulge this knowledge to anyone.
@Phoenix The tried and true best story telling theme of good conquering evil will definitely win the day. We just have to brace for all the suffering that needs to come in between the now and the victory parade. 😞
@FGB4877
Thank you. I did read what you wrote in reply to my question on whether we knew what LL wants. You are right, he wants too much and unreasonably, and he is too arrogant and naval gazing to realise that he cannot handle it. Since he does not believe in god, he cannot fathom that to control all the elements of “absolute power, time-travelling and dimension jumping all at the same time” as you put it, actually can only be accomplished by a supernatural being.
I’m thinking that your 2nd point on his not understanding the rules and the entities in the game will be his downfall. He still thinks that everyone besides himself is a pawn. He forgets that there are Knights and Bishops and, yes, the Queen. 😉
Being alone is also his great failing… and that’s why some of us were concerned about LG going it alone so much. However LG’s team will probably force him to accept their help, and it will be because there’s more than just him, that they will succeed.
@Kuroshio About Luna/TE being able to appear and disappear …
Thanks … wish Show could really go there and make it a certainty and show us how it happened, but I’m thinking it may end up one of those things that remain a mystery.
@mychoiyoung LOL we normal civilians can think of shooting the tyre but TE the policewoman didn’t. Most remiss of her.
I thought I heard her use 2 shots for the car that was approaching her. however she had 2 bullets left in the gun. I need to go back and listen again, or else that’s a plothole!!!!
You know the Goblin/Voldemort whole body disintegration thing… I think it’s very cool. At least in Goblin’s case, he was not screaming in pain. Yes he is undermining himself by not believing human beings can be so much more than just pawns to be controlled by him. Actually, he must be a very lonely person but he totally fails to see that!!!
Was anyone surprised that he actually sits down at table to eat with the wife of his parallel’s brother? The only ‘more’ human thing we’ve ever seen him do besides read and walk around. LOL. He’s so lonely but he doesn’t know it, so much so it becomes pitiable. Other than that, he’s such a flat character so far.
After watching Episode 12, I’m now worried they’ll rush the remaining 4 episodes. I think there has to be at least… not 20, but perhaps 18 episodes in all so they can cover everything. Considering the pace since Episode 1 and the fact we haven’t reached the climax yet, I’m scared the limited episodes will ruin this drama for me. Ugh I hope not.
Anyway, I quickly read all posts and I’m so happy you discussed many things about this drama. I’ll start going over the comments now to catch up lol
(Up next: reading the Hospital Playlist reviews because I love that drama)
@GB Now that you mention Harry Potter, the very important aspects of time travel within HP are,
1. You must not be seen (LG ran to TE making her realise prematurely about his time travel and prompting her to take decisions in the present to try and change his future course)
2. You MUST NOT change the past. You must not change the flow of events. You must not use it to bring back the dead, for example.
3. Terrible things have happened to wizards who tried to mess with the time (scars, time freeze, being stuck with a loop?)
@GB I actually find LL interesting in a macabre kind of way. Remember his fondness for red paint and repainting old buildings, his weird sense of justice in wanting to maim the kids who bullied that invalid kid. I remember @packmule3 had a post up here on LL as a villain. I also found it interesting that he was having a meal with LG’s doppelganger mom. Would be interesting to see how he wants to use her..my guess would be to somehow influence LG or use her as a shield when LG comes for him.
Was anyone else both amused and creeped out by that moment of domesticity, LL sitting at a modest dinner with captive Lee Gon mom double?
I now know why in a previous episode we’d seen her scrubbing the floor: she’d been cleaning following a previous wrist-slashing attempt.
It does look like LL is beginning to crack. Other than when he tried to strangle Crown Prince Lee Gon, LL has been coldly detached in his interactions with minions and victims. In this episode we saw him react with anger twice.
This brings me to a question I’ve had since a long time now and would love it if the smart bitches at BoD can help me.
Warning. It’s going to be a LONG question. Because I’m rather verbose in real life 😛
Don’t you guys feel TE is a bit cold towards LG? Well, if not cold she doesn’t vocalize /express her love with that much fervor, let’s put it that way. She doesn’t actively discourage him but gives really lukewarm responses to his genuine gestures.
Now mind you, I’m no sweep me off my feet type of woman. I’ve refused gifts of expensive vacations to pay our mortgage instead. I don’t expect TE to fall at his feet, No! But given how she feels about him when he’s not there (keeping the keychain close at all times, the way she acted with the flowers, the way she keeps waiting for him) she doesn’t behave that way when he’s around. The only times she let’s her guard down and behaves in accordance with what he means to her is when she’s in acute distress.
In Ep 12, near the fields she seems to imply that she knows she’s his weakness in the battlefield. She says she doesn’t like flowers (a lie, clearly) to discourage him from coming to her. He says “she just speaks whatever when he expresses his love”. But in that moment it doesn’t look like she’s actively suppressing her feelings. She just seems to have decided to refuse him at all times.
However, the way she looks at him with warmth and the way she behaves when he’s not there to witness it, don’t match with those refusals. Maybe she knows/guesses more than she lets on ? She doesn’t want to egg him on to a path of self destruction for her sake? Or is it on of those things left to the viewers?
Wow! Thanks for finding this translation of the poem, Kuroshio. It sure is much easier to understand. 🙂
@GB:
Thank you! I have @packmule3 & all of you here to thank, for all the insightful discussions & explanations. I’m very new to kdramas (TKEM is my 2nd), so this blog and everyone’s sharing has helped me to appreciate the drama so much more.
” I’d like to think that the magic that sets things to rights, which might actually be the magic of the goodness in people, gets to bloom so unexpectedly, that it takes LL unprepared.”
I agree wholeheartedly with what you said. I’m very interested to see how Luna morphs into TE later on. Although she has been portrayed as cold-hearted and vicious, we see how she has the need to be loved deep down inside her. LL sees these needs as weaknesses & uses them to control others, & does not realise that love & goodness can turn these “weaknesses” into a strength more powerful than mere brute force. Sorta reminds me of the Lord of the Rings: “Saruman believes that it is only great power that can hold evil in check. But that is not what I have found. I have found it is the small things. Everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keeps the darkness at bay. Simple acts of kindness and love.”
@Phoenix: Am definitely a shallow islander too… esp after seeing how LG carried the injured TE to his bed, & helps to take off her shoes. Such a simple act but speaks volumes! I also chuckled seeing how TE gave him that look & closed the door after seeing him washing rice, & he had to call her back while remarking he couldn’t feel his fingers from all that rice washing lol.
@kuroshio the poem is beautiful! Thank you for sharing!
Not sure if I saw correctly but I spotted Luna kissing SJ in the Ep 13 trailer? Maybe that might be the turning point for Luna, & it sorts of helps to settle the love triangle issue. Maybe Luna & SJ are the bishops in this chess game, their movements are not “straight” but their presence can make a difference between victory & defeat.
I’m haunted by the I MISSED YOU from TE before she collapsed She said it 3x 🙁
Thanks, @Phoenix. “Regarding the bandages, I had a feeling a few more days had passed.” I thought it was the same day, after she woke up.😊
Wow @Arihsi, you can remember all the conditions for the use of the Time Turner in Harry Potter??!! I did feel that the conditions made good sense. Yes, what you say is true. We have been on the brink of the dangerous stage of paradoxes in time because LG knew about the past ID card and now we are entering it because TE knows about the future LG, and is changing her responses according to what she wants to prevent or what she thinks will happen.
@Phoenix
When LL first told Ji Hun’s mother that she would have to eat alone at one of his visits, I was already surprised. That means that it’s a habit for him to eat with her, at the house, when he comes. He was still treating her like the half sister-in-law ie ‘family’ of sorts. This episode where he’s actually seated at table with her confirmed it. So macabre!!! At the same time he was keeping her imprisoned and under surveillance at all times, preying on her regrets/guilt over Ji Hun’s apparent death.
What he said was that he kept her alive because she, with that face, was perfect bait. However LG did not evince any interest in the woman with his mother’s face. So we’ll see.
@Welmaris – I think the scars are appearing even in the others to signal the growing imbalance of worlds. The scars look like roots to me (the graphics of the tree at the start of each episode). Because there are more people with scars/roots that can be intertwined with the lives of the people of that world and establish themselves there as doppelgangers, it becomes a warning of sorts hopefully to LG — the portal needs to be closed before more people take “root” in a world where they don’t belong.
And yes, I was bothered by the scene with LL and LG’s mom double. I was thinking that maybe it just wasn’t the crown of his brother that he was jealous of but the fact that he had a wife that he loved as well! I just don’t know why LL said that she would be the perfect pawn when LG barely has any memories of her given the fact that she died when he was only 3.
After watching the both episodes, I’m sad for the Prince Lee Jong-In, how a nice man like him could have such a son…
I don’t understand the editing part. They add some confusion that has nothing to do with the story itself and they make some scenes lacking. They made PM and Yeong meet in the 2/3 of the episode 11 and the scene has resumed in the episode 12. It’s a big gap between the 2 parts.
Lee Rim travelled from one world to the other one for 20 years, why the time is stopping only now.
TE was kidnapped from her world and she’s happy speinding time with Lee Gon, she and Lee Gon could show some worries about her own world. She knows that she has a doppleganger, that Lee Rim switches the dopplegangers, etc. But they are just focused on their love…
@kdramakat, that’s an interesting analogy. We do agree here in previous posts, that the scars look like fiery roots, but to link it with doppelgangers taking root in the wrong worlds sounds particularly apt. To take it further, LG and his crew will have a lot of uprooting to do to clear the ground.
As for Ji Hun’s mother and LL… since Lee Ho lost his wife when LG was very young, it is not so likely that there’d be jealousy there over Lee Ho’s family life. What LL himself has said more than once is that he should be the rightful heir, not just to the throne but as the one with control over the flute, and the worlds that it opened to him. With the flute he could even control time.
Since HCL Noh was brought over 67 years earlier, that means that at least King Lee Ho knew of the power of the flute to unite the 2 worlds. LL said that his naive half-brother did not believe in the flute, but that also means Lee Ho must have known the legend, just that he had refused to believe in it.
Unlike Lee Ho, LL, who was older, believed in the legend and wanted to make it come true for himself. His jealousy was that he who would have done wonders for himself with the flute, had been stymied just because his mother was the concubine and not the wife of the King.
Maybe it gave him some sense of twisted satisfaction that Lee Ho had lost his wife (Song Jeong Hye). He had let her die and had not looked for Song Jeong Hye, with whom he could have replaced her. But here in ROK, LL was playing house with Song Jeong Hye, the woman with Lee Ho’s dead wife’s face. Chilling!!
@mychoiyoung wrote, “I’m haunted by the I MISSED YOU from TE before she collapsed She said it 3x”
It may not be altogether bad. “What I tell you three times is true.” from The Hunting of the Snark, by Lewis Carroll.
Am worried about Eun-Sup alone in the hospital with one of the minions around. I hope that his guard is reliable.
I thought the scene where Luna breaks into LL’s office/warehouse is interesting. How did she locate it? She was very upfront about it. LL started out looking furious, but by the end, his expression seemed to indicate that he appreciated her felonious talents.
@GB I take pride in remembering books with page numbers. I could tell you exactly where these conditions appear in the book, although I read it years ago (probably decades. I grew up with Harry. I was eleven when he was. Happy happy memories). 🙈
@Arihsi, when you said “Don’t you guys feel TE is a bit cold towards LG? Well, if not cold she doesn’t vocalize /express her love with that much fervor, let’s put it that way. She doesn’t actively discourage him but gives really lukewarm responses to his genuine gestures.”
I can understand this completely! Not really cold but more dodging of LG’s actions. This becomes obvious when LG is the one who initiates it. I think it’s just in her personality that she becomes self-conscious and changes the topic or diverts LG’s attention to other things. Maybe TE doesn’t really believe that she deserves getting extra attention? Point in case was when TE and SJ were at a stakeout and she was lamenting that she misses the time when she was prettier, smarter, etc. not like ‘now’. Also when she asked LG if he would still fall for her if she didn’t help him, or was rude to him. So maybe TE thinks that she isn’t pretty or smart, neither is she one to spend extra time on how she looks but is incredulous that someone can be so enamored with her!
But when she’s the one who initiates moments with LG, you can see that she’s all in! Putting his arm around her rather than just holding hands, or running towards him on their 3rd (?) meeting were all eyebrow-raising. In Ep. 12, it becomes more obvious that most of the hesitating in the part of TE was gone except when LG became too amorous with her. I think she was trying her best not to scandalize the royal court more. Hahaha! 🙂
@Fern and @mychoiyoung… In Biology, the ‘n’ of the repeats of any experiment (or the number of subjects) needs to be minimum three with consistently the same results in order for the conclusion to be reliable or acceptable in peer reviewed journals. For more bizzare results or results that conter the understanding of the field, more than three.
So anything three with consistently the same results can be statistically reliable. She misses him with scientific reproducibility. 😛
“She misses him with scientific reproducibility.” That’s so cool, @Arihsi! 🍪🍪🍪
I hope that your little one is doing well.
LOL Scientific reproducibility!
Well as long as she does not call his name 3 times, I guess it should be OK? 😉 😝
‘Well as long as she does not call his name 3 times, I guess it should be OK? 😉 😝’ Perhaps if he’s not dead it doesn’t count. I’ve lost track of when she says his name. I thought it might be 3 by now. He’s also called hers several times.
I found LG’s connection to Catholicism and the Church and how his father learned the religion because he loved his mother so much interesting.
If we look at some of the events in this series we might find some answers in Christianity itself
Significance of the number 3 – Father, Son, Holy Spirit, the Holy trinity 3 in 1
Plum Blossom also known as resurrection flower, Christ resurrected from the dead on the third day
I don’t know this might be way off track but it was interesting none the less that he brought her to the Church and that we learned this tidbit about his faith.
From the prayer Apostle’s Creed – on the third day he rose again….he will come again to judge the living and the dead…life everlasting
And wasn’t lily mentioned too?
(Or did I just dream that up? I’m watching too many dramas: Chinese and American)
Growing_Beautifully should cover the Catholic aspects, too.
This has been bugging me for the long time and decided to share it with you all:
I feel like Lee Gon will someday give his throne to Se-jin at the end. I mean for a character that always mentioned, I think he will be significant in the show or something. Maybe after closing the portal, LG decided to cross the universe to see JTE or be stuck at land of No Man’s Island to find another way to see JTE and be with her.
We only have 4 episodes left. I’m going to miss watching this kdrama that makes me think so hard. It even made me and my friend try to solve the amount of frozen time, and figured out the sequence and solve for the e.
Thank you all for the comments and clarity that made me love the show more.
@NewtoKdrama and @pkml3
EPISODE 12 Random Thoughts
This was a slow episode in terms of action. It was an episode of tremendous exposition. It felt like Show was trying to make up for the lack of backstory in several main characters and relationships in one fell swoop. Show had not prepared to show us instead of tell us, which was a pity.
There was also a lot of just talk … but I’m a bit befuddled as to whether very much of it or just bits of it was significant. But there was really too much talking, as if to hide a pearl of value in a mass of words.
1) JY and SJ Talk about LG’s history JY’s. This was not too bad, it was shorter than the other chats. So now SJ gets filled in on LG’s past. Who’s hoping for a JY-SJ friendship? (‘bromance’ is banned LOL)
2) LG saves TE and then talks with her for several minutes, catching up, and out of the blue, hearing that she’s in his room, she mentions :
– I found that an odd thing to say (more something Luna would be interested in!) But the jewelry bit came to pass the next day.
LG and TE next day with the must have almost Makeover trope which I just loved because once again, it is subverted. Yes the guy did splurge and give the girl a whole new wardrobe of clothes, plus jewelry, but he didn’t remake her image. He knew her well and respected her. He allowed her to choose, and she chose not to change her style, but to be herself as she always was. And the jewelry was a lot indeed, only it was many of the same thing and she didn’t know that every coat pocket had a necklace.
I laughed when he finally lied outright. Normally he’d tease or joke and then tell the truth, but this was a lie through and through, just to look cool.
3) Then there’s the long hospital visit with Eun Seob which puzzled me. I kept listening to hear if there were any keywords for us to catch. It only amounted to getting news on the twins and getting LG to serve ES. ES who was at the beginning of the episode crazy over Seung Ah, thinking that she was Na Ri, pretended to be cool and indifferent about Na Ri with LG and TE.(Another guy lying to shore up image!)
I was amused to think that ES was going to succeed in getting Jo Yeong a girlfriend in KOC, while JY had gotten him a driver’s license in ROK.
4a) I found it a strange unsubtle transition from investigating the warehouse and minions of LG at the Salt Farm, to the Church.
I found that very clunky. Nevertheless we know the importance of being at the church.
4b) There’s another long chat at the church. It’s good to hear the histories of their parents, but this is where so much could have been shown us earlier to get us more on board with the characters, rather than told us for several minutes so late in the series. I felt that the PD was making up for lost time.
@NewtoKdrama @pkml3
References to things Catholic
Well there are significant numbers in the Bible. 3 is associated with The Holy Trinity, but it has other links to Korean lore or culture and so this may not mean anything specific to do with the Catholic faith.
The flower TE planted might have been a Lily that is considered a Magic or Resurrection Lily. Again, it has not been named such for us in the show, therefore the link to the resurrection is not made for us. We have just looked up the possible names of the flower. Certainly we’d like to think that if TE or one of our good guys died, that they’d get a second chance to live …this is after all a fantasy with magic, so it’s possible and that’s the closest it gets to the Christian faith I think.
The Plum Blossom was not discussed much, was it? It is a “symbol for resilience and perseverance in the face of adversity, because plum blossoms often bloom most vibrantly even amidst the harsh winter snow.” according to Wikipedia.
As they walked in the church grounds, they were headed towards the statue of ‘The Sacred Heart of Jesus’ and took a photo in front of it – This image of Jesus is one of His great love for all persons, so much so that to save them, He willingly bore the sins of the world, and allowed Himself to be sacrificed for mankind. The heart of Jesus in this image, is crowned with thorns and pierced as he was, and it is burning out of love for all. It is exposed to give assurance of His unstinting love. – Whether this is to hint at what LG or TE may choose to do to save their worlds remains to be seen. 🤔
5) The chat in the bedroom where TE sees the fiery scar on LG’s shoulder. An interesting collage of people who suffer the fiery scars is shown. They all have scars on different parts of their bodies from each other.
There is mention of rules in Maths and that what the King says becomes law or the rule. A scientific rule is that the same circumstances will give the same result, but LG and TE note that there is randomness and this is highlighted in the random parts of the body bearing scars in people who crossed worlds.
This is something that LL has started to notice, since he has noted cracks appearing. He says so to his driver over TE’s ID and he says so to Song Jeong Hye while pinning her to the floor. He asks her repeatedly why she is acting up:
I take the scars along with the cracks. There are more and more elements that he cannot control and events/things that are unexpected. The great imbalance in the universes are manifesting.
This ties in nicely with how the portal between the obelisks look like cracked glass that they go through, and with the Alice and Looking Glass theme. We noted before that the Sword will be great for making the crack and shattering the glass.
6) There’s an interesting conversation, but again rather long, between the pregnant Park Ji Young and PM Koo, who is obviously just back in ROK, without even her phone with her. This conversation leads to Koo barging into the Palace once again.
7) The conversation between Koo and LG is significant: where he accuses her of A)pulling the gag of the horse’s harness, ie acting differently to change direction and B)”tying him down”. I have to double check, but I interpret A) as reference to her disappearing and not being contactable. And B) her tying him down is her coming unannounced to the palace to interrogate him.
The lightning was fortuitous at that point so that LG could see for himself that she had joined LL in crossing worlds. She had become the enemy and was no longer riding along beside him.
8) The significant conversation between HCL Noh and TE. HCL gave out a whole bunch of names so that TE could trace her ROK family and see that HCL was telling the truth about her history, if she got back to ROK.
We recall in our earlier posts, wondering how much HCL knew. She sometimes pretended that she did not know. She never let on about the world she came from when she first investigated the ID Card. Perhaps because it was dated as coming from the future, that she did not pursue that thought. But since she knew of that other world, she may have recognised the book of Poems. She also said that she knew where LG had been before he could tell her anything. She called it his search for his destiny.
Side question: If King Lee Ho knew and LL knew, then surely it’s likely that Prince Buyeong knew about the other world. He must have guessed, but he would not admit, that the dead body of LL was from the other world. Perhaps that’s why he appeared so ambivalent. It was a truth too dangerous to admit, so he chose to lie. He and HCL never seemed to have mentioned it. There’s a cloud of secrecy surrounding the flute and the portal to the other world.
After filling us in with so much back story, I trust show will get back on to action. We have 4 episodes and a dangerous would be king (LL) and queen (PM Koo) to take down. 😃
Just rewatched parts of Episode 7 & realised one of the guys that had the lightning scar was the double of Chairman Park’s son Byeong-U! (the HG group logo on the wall confirms it?) Which means our hypothesis is prob correct: only those who have crossed worlds & had their doubles killed are afflicted with the scar. In Episode 7, LL had Byeong U’s double kill Byeong U & take over the company. Gonna just copy & paste & add to my previous list below! @mychoiyoung that’s one more to add to your excellent excel file?
I think we can assume that the show shows us those who are afflicted by the lightening scar, to allow us to make certain deductions & assumptions:
1. Like mentioned, only those who have crossed & have had their doubles killed are affected: LG, LL, Lee Sang Do, the bookshop owner, Byeong U of HG group. It doesn’t have to be LL doing the killing, since the bookshop owner’s double was killed by LG’s royal guards.
2. Those who have crossed the portal but have doubles who are still alive are not affected: TE & Luna, JY & ES, possibly pregnant lady (not sure if she has crossed yet, but we do see that both ladies are still alive)
3. This means for those who have crossed & have the scar, we can assume their double has been killed: PM Koo
4. And for those who have crossed & have no scar, we can assume their double is alive, or died of natural causes: Sin Jae (I am assuming his double died during illness & LL brought him to ROK to replace him), & maybe Lady Noh.
I love it when you say that you ship the story @PM3. Cause it really gets tiresome to read some posts from some websites. For example koalasplayground.com. This writer, I don’t get her lol. I think she has made her point that she does not like The king, but every week, I mean every week she makes sure to make some really nasty mean posts on the king and write about how KES has failed to create any magic. And how Lee Min Ho and KGE have terrible chemistry, and how they cannot act to save the drama.
I understand that she is using the rating as a click-bait for her posts but it is really mean and hurtful. I used to know that people like to revel in other people’s miseries but when I see her posts and how people are also supporting her by saying how terrible the drama is, it just leaves me speechless haha. I really feel pity for this writer of the blog koala and her religious supporters. It is funny.
Also it’s funny how audience basically are just a flock of sheep, without brain. When they see certain dramas are peaking to the top they get hooked like for example ‘the world of married’. And then they are like cheering for these dramas. And when they see the king and that the rating has been dropping they become keyboard warriors and slay the actors, actresses and the writer left and right.
Anyway sorry for the rant. I am just so tired of seeing so many negative comments about the king. I mean even if they don’t like it, I hate it when people say mean things without getting that these actors also work hard to make the show work. A creative work can be good or bad, but that doesn’t mean that you can rebuke them. Criticism should be healthy, not vicious. Choice of word matters. 🙂
Here is a very big rambling supposition: @ Growing Beautifully (GB) wrote about, “8) The significant conversation between HCL Noh and TE.” She swore TE to secrecy and demanded that TE ask no questions either.
It seems that history could be repeating itself. HCL Noh may have come over with LG’s grandfather the King. (I don’t know how else she could have come.) The same one who started the constitutional monarchy. I’m wondering if she were an influence on him to do that and also if she might actually be LG’s grandmother. Why, besides for love, would he bring her over? She mentions a sister as well. Her parents would be dead, but might the sister actually be her double and still alive? Is that what she is asking TE to investigate?
Since HCL Noh is aware of LG’s travels, why doesn’t she reveal her Korean history to him? Perhaps, IF she is his grandmother and IF it’s anything like the case of LL, illegitimacy would mean that he isn’t rightfully the king, nor was his father, and she couldn’t bear for him to suffer that.
Of course, this is just a very wild theory, but it gives him an out should he need it.
@Fern hee hee. Thank you.
With the little one, we are passing through the age of continuous defiance, refusal and resistance.
When she indulges in perilous tasks such as eating everything from newspapers to crayons, climbing furniture from chairs to tables, pulling table clothes, “surprising” me when I’m dealing with piping hot liquids within the kitchen etc. I’d really like it if she develops a voice in her head that screams “Danger! DANGER! mission abort ! Mission ABORT!” That way, I’d worry less and live more – without having to run helter-skelter through 1350 toys every two seconds trying to stop her from doing whatever daredevil act she’s about to do.
My mother thinks I’m funny to expect that because that “milestone” isn’t happening for another 20 years at the least. She informed me with great glee, “wait till she enters the teenage!”
@Arihsi, I can relate to that with 2 daughters. The first was busy and full on and the second was many times more so. May your teenager be as easy as ever she possibly can be! Your mother – hahaha. I can imagine mine would have said the same thing and more!
@Growing Beautifully (GB), “Then there’s the long hospital visit with Eun Seob which puzzled me.” I got nervous when he declined the guard’s help to look for listening devices. I have the feeling that everything said was being relayed to LL. In the earlier hospital scene, the minion with a 2G phone was shown, so he could be a plant to either spy on Eun-Sup and visitors, or could be instructed to kill.
Hi
I don’t know English but I follow you with googletranslate.
The cause of the fiery scar: couples only cause distortion in space-time when they see each other.
LG saw its own couple when it came from the future.
That’s how I guess.
it is very enjoyable to follow you.
goodbye
I had asked myself what had changed to make fiery marks start appearing on others beside LG and LL. TE asks if it is random, but LG guesses a rule had been broken. He doesn’t have our advantage of seeing what’s going on with others, so he can’t yet extrapolate a new or amended rule from data. My guess at what was added to make a change was LG, or maybe even TE, killing people. Before TE’s kidnapping, the “just” side had not taken lives. I think of how writer KES in Goblin made a point that Kim Shin deserved punishment because he killed multitudes, even though it was as his king commanded. But in this drama, if others getting the fiery mark is because LG/TE have started killing people, even in defense, then the punishment (although deserved) for the actions of LG/TE is being meted out to others.
@mürüvvet çakırerk suggests time travel may have something to do with the fiery marks appearing. At first I thought this might be key, but then remembered we’ve had time travel from the moment the savior with TE’s ID card showed up to protect Crown Prince Lee Gon. Could the initiating time (vs receiving time) of time travel be when the rule gets broken? Maybe. I was suspicious that LG’s answer to TE about the special coat included mention of giving flowers. Had he tested time travel before TE was kidnapped? We also saw a change in time travel, into the future, with the video LG found on JY’s computer. We still don’t know if that’s something JY acquired with LL’s help, was confiscated from an LL minion, or was supernaturally placed in JY’s computer by Fate/Yoyo Girl. That said, the video would have been on JY’s computer long before the change in who gets the fiery marks. On reflection, that instance of going into the future doesn’t connect with the appearance of fiery marks on people other than LG and LL, and gives more weight to the argument that the 2022 video was Fate giving LG a supernatural warning.
@Packmule3
Thank you, for welcoming me! 🙂
I have tried to find something about the names of HCL Noh’s family members, but I haven’t found anything interesting at all. Maybe it’s because I’m not good enough at searching the web, but I suspect that the real reason is simply that my mind was trying to hyper-analyse everything while watching the episode and I just got carried away a little bit… Ehem…
I rolled my eyes at myself when I read the following comment by @Growing Beautifully (GB):
” HCL gave out a whole bunch of names so that TE could trace her ROK family and see that HCL was telling the truth about her history, if she got back to ROK.”
Yes, that’s it! As simple as that. Thank you, GB! 🙂
@Nearsea
I totally agree about everything you wrote regarding the negativity on Koalasplayground and other sites. That’s why I’m sooo happy that I have found this wonderful blog! It feels like a safe haven of sanity!
Hi @Fern, Interesting conjecture you have there. HCL being brought over by King Lee Ho (or his father) … could it be because they are related? It’s a thought.
As you say, if the question of legitimacy crops up, it could be a way out for LG to abdicate. What twisted irony if the illegitimate LL might have been denied his coveted position because of another illegitimate heir. LOL. As if he’s not murderous enough, this would drive him mad.
The hospital visit with Eun Seob was several long minutes. LG stood and watched and listened, put cake on the table and sat and watched and listened some more… I was waiting for something to be said that would justify the time spent in that hospital room. But since you remind us that LL’s minions are about, and we know listening devices are common, that could be a significant game changer. What TE and ES said would reveal the other world and that LG is in on it.
This reminded me of the beginning episode. Some minions were watching the CCTV of things happening in Song Jeong Hye’s apartment where she had tried again to kill herself. It is possible for a hidden camera to have been in the hospital too, I guess.
LOL @Vikingheart, you don’t have to take my guesses as gospel truth. I’m just interpreting in my own way. Your search for the names is not wasted. We find out that they have no significance maybe. If they had some connected meaning it would of course have been interesting. For one thing, the family name of HCL is Noh… if that cannot by any stretch of the imagination be linked to the royal ‘Lee’s, then we will never know if those families were associated only as friends or by half-blood or whatever.
@Welmaris
At this stage, LG only knew of himself having the fiery scar and of TE not having it. It was in this context that they wondered if it was random.
It was later that LG hears that Lee Sang Do in the dungeon had also experienced it.
My quibble with Show is that they showed lightning in the past and only LG or LL experiencing the scars, but they did not show us that the minions DID NOT experience them. So I wonder if the scars in all the between world travelers is something that is only happening now.
This is chilling and puts the good guys in the position that they have only 1 means of defence – to separate and incarcerate their enemies forever – if execution is not permitted by the ‘gods’. Your point is consistent, though. If we think the fiery scars are a sign of being a monster and killing is a monster-making business, then our good guys will also be marked by the fiery scars. My only contention is that LG received his scar before we know that he killed anyone.
I played with the idea that it happened only when both pieces of the flute had traveled across the worlds.
@pkml3
Opening credits: The lightning (another supernatural player?)that dived deep into the tree to it’s roots, ie the roots of the flute, it appears, now seems to be searching out the many who have traveled by means of its flute. It is identifying them by burning them with every strike of its fire. Just a thought!!
G: “Don’t worry. I won’t lose anything that belongs to me. (She nods) But if you’re still worried, why don’t we go and pray together.”
Hi @GB! 🙂 I want to put my trust in KES and the director that the couple who prays together, stays together. 😉
watching ep 12 again:
1. Speaking of Catholicism, LG’s doppelganger’s mom reminded me of Jesus with those bloody wrists. Also, she had said before that they (LL&Company) will bring her back to life, just like God did with Jesus.
2. Why is a catholic church the only place that is the same in both worlds?g
I absolutely, 100% want LG and TE to be together happily thereafter. However, would TE be happy to live in KOC? Her body language tells me that she is not comfortable in his court, at least not without her own identity as a cop, not to mention that she cannot dump her father and friends in ROK.
Why is it that TE refuses to wear the necklace that LG gave her? She has not accepted the idea of marrying LG and staying at KOC thus she doesn’t want to indulge herself with things from his world?
What will make TE happy at KOC? 1) Full support from Lady Noh. LG should really beg Lady Noh for her help with the secrets of the flute and/or sword and her full acceptance and help to TE is much needed so that TE doesn’t feel lonely or helpless in this new world; 2) acceptance and love from the people of ROC (new heir to the throne will do! Besides, with kids, TE won’t have time to be lonely nor lost; 3) A job as a cop again? After working on the cases related to LL, her talent continues to be appreciated in ROC (Could a queen work as a cop while being a queen?); 4) Luna lives TE’s life well in ROK and takes care of her dad; works as a cop and has a loving relationship with SJ. TE, being very kind, wouldn’t want to destroy Luna’s only chance of new life, walks away from ROK and embrace LG’s world wholeheartedly.
It’s my first kdrama in 15 years and my very first time posting any comments. So thrilled to have found this forum and really appreciate all your great analysis, especially the poems and the math. You are an amazing bunch!
I was given a chart by mychoiyoung on the people with the scar, and I’m still reviewing it.
I will consider your suggestion, too. Thanks.
Arigatou for all the amazing and mesmerizing posts of all the bitches!
I like the phrase of @agdr03 that the couple who prays together, stays together. This is my first Kdrama where the concept of God was emphasized and Catholic religion was mentioned. I’m a Catholic myself and I respect other religions so I’m satisfied that somehow those responsible for this movie was able to conceptualize a powerful being who has control about things here and there.
@Alxmar27 asked why Catholic church is the only place the same in both worlds? Just as yoyo girl (Fate) being the only person or deity whether she is in ROK or KOC. Probably because the church is not simply a place but more of a symbol of faith to many. This place will be the same whichever world you are.
Just thinking and maybe it’s silly, could HCL Noh be the real author of that poem book? Like she’s reading her life and her life is exactly as TE’s life is now?
Maybe it doesn’t make sense. 🤪
@Alxmar7: Interesting question! I was wondering if it could be another place connecting the 2 worlds. Perhaps when the 2 worlds split apart this was the only place which was not affected, so if the portal closes the church may be another way to cross between worlds? But this is a wild guess. Also, if LG knows its the same it means he must have visited the church when he was in ROK.
@StarJasmine7: I liked the points you made, the teaser for the next episode sees to point towards a romance for Luna & SJ. Luna in ROK would prob change TE perspective of whether to leave or stay. Am hoping so hard for a happy ending, with all loose ends tied up neatly!
@Nearsea: I feel the same too, I feel really bad for the cast and crew that are working so hard to do a good job. The show ratings aren’t great in Korea but seems to be doing very well internationally though?
@arihsi: Hang in there! We are going through the same stage for our very youngest now, & it is exhausting (so I’m thankful to be able to escape into the world of kdrama at the end of the day!). It will get easier!
@agdr03 I also have a theory that Peince Buyeong was somehow involved in old Lady Noh crossing over and he knew all about the portal. He seemed to know more than he should have. He sacrifised himself to let LG know about LL’s den. He couldn’t have been oblivious to the existence of the two parallel universes. This is also supported by the deep connection between him and Lady Noh.
@agdr03 I’ve actually had the same thought ever since that episode where she emptied LG’s coat pocket and found the book. The way she pours her heart out in reading the poems as if it was her own.
Agree @Phoenix about Prince Buyeong and his connection with Lady Noh. She was devastated by his passing. I had a cry with her and LG. Yes, I can imagine them having more knowledge than they let on. They knew LG goes away every now and then and they just accepted it for what it’s supposed to be, never asking or questioning him.
@Say08, yeah it just resonates so much with Lady Noh. But who she wrote the book for I’m not sure.
@say08 @agdr03 Lady Noh make a mysterious face when found book on LG pocket because kim sa wol only exist in ROK, so Lady Noh was know where LG have been all this time when he disappeared. Kim sa wol is real famous poetry in Korea
I think the timing of the book would preclude it being written by her. Wiki says “Kim Sowol wrote most of the poems contained in The Azaleas (1925), the only collection of poetry published in his lifetime, while he was still a teenager.” He died in 1934. She must have been familiar with his poems. Amazing poems to have been written by someone so young as he.
Ref Christian/Catholicism links. Isn’t LG 33yo? That is the same age scholars think Jesus was when he was killed.
Ref Christian/Catholicism links. Isn’t LG 33yo? That is the same age scholars think Jesus was when he was killed.
Ref Lady Noh, in the questions thread @Tessa Best thought that she might be LL’s mother. I hope not. There seems to be a gap in numbers between the time she left her home in the north and when she has no further news of the area. B 1932, left at 17, so around 1949/50. Presuming that this conversation takes place in winter 2020; she has had no news for 67 years: 2020 take away 67 (presumable when she came to KoC) = about 1952/53? I’m rubbish at maths. I thought that LL was born to the King’s concubine and it would have been publicised in KoC in 1951 at the time. (I’m not sure where this is all leading, maybe just me rambling – help.)
Lady Noh seems to have no love for LL; calls him a traitor and gives the flute part to LG. She supports and protects LG as much as she can, even to the point of trying to arrange his dynasty. If she were LL’s mother, wouldn’t she have tried to support his interests long before and, if thwarted, only given halfhearted support to LG? Doubly tragic if she were LL’s mother and was trying to re-balance his treachery, eh?
@GB – Yes, saw also the Catholic references on Episode 12.
I grew up with a Mom who has a deep devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus, the embodiment of God’s divine love and mercy. Many Catholics are devotees because The Sacred Heart gives you 12 promises.
And speaking of promise, the stance of LG & JT also in Ep 20, 20:02 reminded me of a typical Catholic wedding. Bride & Groom would usually stand like that, holding hands & looking at each other, when they profess their wedding vows & receive the wedding sacrament. It is also witnessed by a priest. The Groom and his Bride are framed like that too, except they are inside the chuch, at the center of the altar, not outside of it 🙂
And usually, the new husband & wife would take a picture, pretty much the same way they did after the ceremony has concluded 🙂 Of course except the newly married couple are usually happy lol. Could not help but get a Catholic wedding vibe there.
@MsWhiteMoto, thanks for that. ☺️ I agree that it did look like a Catholic wedding with LG and TE in that picture. Personally, I’d take it as wedding because the honeymoon happened that night. 😉 I’d like to think that they received God’s blessing too on their union.
@Sayaris
Lee Rim travelled from one world to the other one for 20 years, why the time is stopping only now.
It would appear that time-stops started only when LG crossed the portal. So it began when both half-flutes were being used.
If you can remember, 1st time LR (Rim) experienced the time-stop was when he was in his hell-like workshop and the bowl dropped & stopped mid-air. The good thing is that LG, being the science/math wizard that he is can establish the pattern. LR, I doubt he can do so.
@Fern @Arihsi Thanks for the re-assurance about TE’s 3x-I-miss-you
RE the LG’s & TE’s church visit – that was a beautiful segment of the drama. They were talking & getting to know each other like any normal couple, except that the magical frenetic fantasy of their worlds took over the regular courtship period.
LG crying when time froze was again heartbreaking as he was again reminded of the almost insurmountable future they are facing. LMH was so good in that scene.
Might not be plausible but I would not be surprised if the secret The King asked the priest to keep is them getting married and that the picture was the celebration of that event for posterity.
But isn’t ironic that when LG asked for their picture to be taken, they physically had to stop/freeze for an instant but that was the moment that time froze again, but this time 1.2 hours…
OkNam’s revelation – that was something eh? Meanwhile, been working on her timeline and this is what I have so far based on her revelation & some history —
1932 – OKNAM BORN
1945 – WW2; NR & SK split
1948 – amid growing Cold War tension between US & Russia, 2 separate gov’t were established in Pyongyang & Seoul. Kim Il-Sung, leader of NK, (was a former guerrilla who fought under Chinese and Russian command). Syngman Rhee, a Princeton University-educated staunch anti-communist, became the first leader of SK.
1949- OKNAM LEFT HOMETOWN (17 yo)
1950 – In an attempt to unify the Korean peninsula under his communist regime, NK leader Kim Il-Sung invaded SK June 1950 with Soviet aid. This brought SK and the US, backed by UN, to fight against the newly founded People’s Republic of China and North Korea. THIS MUST BE THE WAR THAT OKNAM WAS REFERRING TO
1953 – An armistice agreement ended hostilities in the Korean War. Technically speaking, we know that two Koreas are still at war. THIS IS THE LAST TIME OKNAM HEARD NEWS ABOUT IF WE USE THE 67 YEARS SHE MENTIONED TO TE (from 2020)
Working backwards from 1994
1954 – Flute’s 20 Year cycle ??
1974 – Flute’s 20 Year cycle ??
1994 – King LH w/ Flute; Regicide happened
Going back to episode 1, she said “This is part of a plan” when kid JY approached kid LG during the mourning ritual – is that connected to her secret story?
Aaahh 4 more epis. That means just 2 weeks to go. Truly wish KES will neatly wrap up all the loose ends of TKEM. But definitely, I will miss this show.
@mychoiyoung but why? Why Lee Rim could make all his moves in secret without aging and now the time stops everytime one of them passes trough the portal. If he didn’t understand that it was exponentiel, he must have noticed that the break was getting longer and longer. Is it because the flute is separated in 2 parts? It messes with its power?
The wedding-like scene in front of the church and the remaining bullets in the gun reminded me of the endgame in Mr. Sunshine.
@MsWhiteMoto and @agdr03 I agree! The thought passed through my mind but I didn’t pay it attention. I thought the secret was that LG was going to ask the priest to marry them, actually. The position and stance did look like a church wedding, before the statue of Jesus, and with Jesus as a witness LOL.
Cute thought @agdr03. Honeymoon night! 😁
@Fern, Thanks for pointing it out! Yes, seems LG is 33 years old, the age at which Jesus Christ died. With the possibility of time travel and the looping of time, there is a possibility of ‘resurrection’ too. 🙂
@mychoiyoung Forgot to tag you re the way TE, LG and priest looked like they were at a wedding. Had the same vibe!
@mychoiyoung, your explanation of Lady Noh’s timeline was much more lucid than mine. Thank you!
Hi everyone. So, about the time travel theory. I saw this huge spoiler on my Instagram explore today that puts this theory on perspective ( to be honest, I don’t think I was ready to see that 😂, but anyway). I don’t know how to mark something as a future spoiler here, so I decided to ask if it’s allowed first. I know some people don’t like to spoiled the fun
@kdramakat
Could the lightning scars placement be at the final blow that killed their doppelgangers? It was different for each person.
That is a very interesting possibility but would be pretty hard to monitor? However, I already see a contradiction in Lee Sang Do’s case as his doppelganger was killed with a blow oh his head. The collage showed Lee Sang Do’s scar on his belly.
I read a theory from another forum that the scar might represent an idiom related to the character. A very curious & creative theory if I may say so (e.g. PM’s scar on her neck cos she is a pain in the neck as mentioned by the political party leader.)
@mychoiyoung
Interesting theory!
In LG’s case, could it be he’s got the scar on his shoulder because:
1. He’s carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders?
2. He always looks over his shoulder, meaning he’s worried something bad may happen to him? (Yo Young mentioned he has been living with the thought of death since he saw his dad’s murder).
@Bliss You could post it as a link with a SPOILER sign 😉 I wanna see it!!!
@sayaris @mychoiyoung: I think the show recorded only some but not all of the time stops, to give just enough instances to let LG & the viewer see that the stops are getting longer. I went to check the numbers. The subtitles mentioned square root of prime numbers which didn’t make sense, but I think the relationship should be: length of the nth time stop corresponds to the square of the nth prime number
LG’s measurements of the time plus my calculations of which stop it corresponds to:
121s – 11th stop (LG mentioned this was the second time)
841s – 29th stop
961s – 31st stop
2209s – 47th stop
3481s – 59th stop
Initially I thought the pattern would skip prime numbers since it didn’t make sense that there were so many time stops… but I couldn’t find a proper pattern. Also, going by what LG mentioned, that time would stop for almost an entire day for the 62nd time, it means the time stops do not skip prime numbers. (The 62nd prime number is 293, squaring it gives you 85849, which is approximately almost 24 hours, 1 full day as LG mentioned.)
This probably means:
1. The time stops were already occurring before LG crossed the portal, since LG only experienced time stopping from supposedly the 11th time onwards.
2. There were time stops that happened in between that were not shown. Which makes sense since LL probably has to make many trips back and forth to establish his army & swap doppelgängers.
3. The whole time stop calculation thing might be to show to the viewers the urgent need to close the portal, before everything gets frozen in time, & perhaps that LG might be able to use the period when time freezes to do something to change the course of time? Whether LL notices the lengthening of the stops probably is secondary.
4. We are shown only some of the stops so we get the general idea of what is happening. The absence of time stops before LG crossed, or in between, is not because there were no stops then, but that they were just excluded from being shown in the storyline.
Ooops I realised I made a mistake, calculations should be:
121s – 11 is the 5th prime number, so its 5th stop (LG mentioned this was the second time)
841s – 10th stop
961s – 11th stop
2209s – 15th stop
3481s – 17th stop
Even with the adjusted numbers there are missing time stops not shown in the show.
🛑 SPOILER ALERT 🛑
https://www.instagram.com/p/CAlx86bpaQe/?igshid=16o4qwal1ema9
I hope it works for those who want to see it. It’s a Brazilian account dedicated to kdrama lovers (I can translate the description if necessary, but I don’t think it is. The images speak for themselves 🤯) I hope to discuss this later
@Bliss
I saw. Ahm. But how to discuss without others automatically coming to know ? 😛
Thank you for sharing!
@Arihsi
I don’t think it’s possible 😂😂
I just want to say that this kinda shows where this whole thing it’s going. Not the actual end but pretty close. His clothes are familiar too, did you notice ?
When I checked some recaps of Ep 12, while looking for comment about the names of HCL Noh’s family members, I found a very interesting theory in the comments on Readysteadycut. (Sorry if this have already been discussed in some other thread, I haven’t had time to keep up with the flow of posts about TKEM. ) It’s written by ’From the future n the past’:
”Idk about this, but somewhat when the king told to teul that the chruch they went to is the only chruch that is the same in both world…and the fact that his parents had a wedding ceremony there. My instict told me that maybe, out of many chances, Lee Gon’s mother is from another world. And the fact that the mother passed 3 yrs after the birth bcus she is from another world thus she shouldnt be giving birth to a baby which across 2 dimensions.
Plus the church…the previous king might build it just bcus his wife was from another world thus he might want to make at least one thing exactly the same as her origin for her!
And plusss the old nanny the one who always there with Lee Gon…if shes really from the another world, then, it possible that shes there to accompany Lee Goos mother last time.”
Ooooh, the idea about the churches is an intriguing thought! I wouldn’t mind it at all, if this theory turns out to be true. How interesting, if his mother came from ROK, witch would make LG an offspring of both worlds. And if LGs father loved his wife so much that he not only became a catholic for her, but also built a copy of her home church, in an effort to make her feel at home in her new world, then the hopeless romantic in me would dance with joy!
But the theory that HCL Noh came to KOC together with LGs mother doesn’t fit with the theory about the churches:
According to The-churches-theory:
– LGs parents met in the original church in ROK.
– Then his mother followed his father to KOC.
– His father built an exact copy in KOC, and this is the church that LG and TE visited. (When his father told LG about how he and his wife met, he must have deliberately left out the part about the parallell world… )
From what LG told TE, it seems like his parents were adults when they met. If HCL Noh followed his mother to KOC, then his parents meeting must have happened sometime *before 1949/50, when HCL Noh went to KOC.
But then LGs mother would have been too old to become a mother in 1987. Even if she was a teenager when she met his father, she would still have been more than 50 years old in 1987
(Like: 16 years old in 1949 = 54 years old in 1987) .
But as someone have already mentioned here (sorry, I don’t remember who it was): HCL Noh could have been brought to KOC by LGs grandfather instead.
@Bliss Firstly, I apologise for reposting my won comment 🙊 I don’t think it’s a good practice to repost one’s own comments from one thread of the blog to another but what I wrote on Shin Jae thread kind of matches the spoiler so I’ll apologize and repost for this one off instance.
In the Harry Potter series, Harry saves himself and Sirius Black by time traveling (just a couple of hours though. Not 25 years. But concept is the same)
Like LG, at first when Harry sees his savior, he thinks it is his father because of the similarity of their appearance. However, it is Harry himself.
Regarding the paradox, Harry and Hermione are absent from the “present” when they are time traveling. (LG: it’s okay if I disappear because I’m traveling through the frozen moments in time) Thus, he’s not present at two places. He’s present only at that particular moment in time. He doesn’t do growing up again.
Let’s imagine a liner time. A the grown up LG loops back from A to B (child LG) saves him and returns back to A. He may have done this only once. We’re right now with the LG of time point B who hasn’t crossed point A yet. And doesn’t know he saved himself (like Harry).
Once the LG reaches time point A and goes to B, he’ll be missing from the “present” time point A until his return to that time. He doesn’t need to keep looping. When he reaches past time point B, he may complete whatever tasks he wants to (Harry not only saved himself and Sirius but also the dragon, took Hagrid out of deep puddle of trouble and helped Sirius escape.)
Do I make sense ?
My own comment* not won comment 🙄 What will my comment win ? The Olympic glod medal of maximum typos? I need to proofread better.
@Arihsi
I think I did..? Time travel is too complex, if you think about it too much, your brain melts 😂. What I thought was going to happen was LG meeting JTE in all those moments in time until he finds the right one to change the future. But I do have a question and I don’t think my English is good enough to explain what is bothering me but I’m going to try. For example, in that scene where he showed up holding blue flowers. Later, JTE told him she doesn’t like flowers. So, now, when the current LG, who didn’t do the time travel yet, shows up to her, will he not be holding flowers? I think a better question would be, can JTE do anything in the current timeline that will change what he does when he goes back?
Did I make any sense? I’m sorry 😅
@Bliss I checked out the spoiler post. You are right I wasn’t ready to see that and the clothes are familiar which makes me think there is credence to the theory LG saves himself. Oh sigh. What will it take for these two to have the fairy tale ending. I read somewhere that there is no happy ending when love is eternal simply because it’s a love that never ends.
I still think there is some significance to that church same place in both worlds question is why? Is it a place they will respectively find solace in somewhere down the line?
Thanks for the timeline of Lady Noh, @mychoiyoung. That explained it well for me too. 🙂
@GB, it was just a thought but yeah it served it’s purpose for the union of our couple heheheh
@Bliss – I saw that pic as well circulating in IG and another with him wearing the coat of gloom. haha! Yes, it seems like they’ll have to go and clear up the time travel route before they tackle how LG and TE manage their love story across dimensions.
@Arihsi – “Once the LG reaches time point A and goes to B, he’ll be missing from the “present” time point A until his return to that time. He doesn’t need to keep looping.When he reaches past time point B, he may complete whatever tasks he wants to…”
I totally get the HP time travel concept and I would think this kind of time travel “movement” is better for audiences to understand since it doesn’t have any looping involved. It also ties loose ends better IMO. 🙂
Since the last 4 episodes are coming up, I stumbled upon Euler’s Identity on IG and it was beautifully explained in connection with TKEM.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CAoQeFcgeYv/
Looking at the equation, LG needs to face his past/his history (so the need to time travel). When he does, e (Euler’s number) squared to i and pi makes -1 or in a more liberal arts statement…it is only when he cancels himself (-1 + 1) that he reaches zero which in this case is TE.
This explains it better as I’m not a mathematician:
https://www.mathsisfun.com/algebra/eulers-formula.html
I didn’t think a formula can be so poetic! Euler’s Identity truly and beautifully captivates the story of TKEM.
@kdramakat Awesome, thanks for sharing.
@Bliss Yes, TE can change the outcome.
Not sure how KES is gonna handle the time travel thing, I hope she’s not gonna follow “The Back to the Future” path. I’d much rather she picks the “Avengers: Endgame” way. So if you haven’t watched Endgame (Really? Go watch it, it’s marvelous) this is how time travel works:
https://i1.wp.com/www.cinefilos.it/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/avengers-endgame-1.jpg?w=1029&ssl=1
Everytime someone travels back in time, it opens a new timeline. For instance, when LG from the future came to TE with the Flowers, he opened a new timeline (Let’s call it T+1). So, to recap:
T: Timeline without LG+flowers
T+1: Timeline with LG+flowers
Now, if at the beginning LG was saved by a time traveler (as we are almost sure), then T was a new timeline that deviated from T-1. So let’s add some details to our timelines to recap and make them clearer:
T-1: Timeline where LG is not saved by a time traveler.
T: Timeline where LG is saved by a time traveler but without LG+flowers.
T+1: Timeline where LG is saved by a time traveler with LG+flowers.
What’s the timeline we’re now following?
T+1, of course.
Mind you: there could be more timelines, I’m just distinguishing these three with the confirmed info we have available.
Why do I want KES to follow this path? Well, for once, it’s more “realistic”. Remember in Back to the Future when some characters were disappearing cause they changed something in the past? (Are you kidding me? lmao)
Secondly, it would give her more room to play with. For example, back to the first scene of the show when TE and SJ are interrogating LL, that could be KES (and the directors) showing us timelime, say, T-0.5
Note: Not T-1, cause in T-1, LG is dead and in that scene, LL acknowledged LG is still alive when he said that his nephew had to face the legend. You may think why not T or T+1? Well, because in those timelines TE is aware of LL and in the scene it looks like TE has never heard of LL before.
And thirdly, it could help us get a happy ending. The time traveler just have to keep traveling until the right timeline is opened.
To finish, I just want to say: “We’re in the Endgame”
I hope someone can help fill in the gaps.
1. 4s LG crossed portal to ROK for the first time. LL’s red paint froze mid-air.
2. 9s LL crossed portal to KOC. Time stopped at the park. TE froze in the middle of tying up her hair.
3. 25s *(Maybe because LG checked the portal again)
4. 49s LG crossed portal to KOC. Time stopped. LL’s at the beach.
5. 121s LL went to ROK. Time stopped. JY froze while walking towards LG.
6. 169s LG crossed portal to ROK.
7. 289s LG brought TE to KOC
8. 361s *TE returned to ROK (LG said he couldn’t send her)
9. 529s LG brought JY to ROK. LL’s time stopped.
10. 841s JY froze at the hotel. LG wrote a note.
11. 961s LG’s tap water froze. LL went to ROK.
12. 1369s LG, ES and the traitor crossed portal to KOC.
13. 1681s *LG crossed portal to call TE.
14. 1849s *LG returned to KOC after seeing TE in the bamboo forest (23rd Jan)
15. 2209s LL crossed the portal in New Year. Time stopped. LG faced LL in Heundae.
16. 2809s *Luna and PM Koo were already in ROK (not sure about the exact time).
17. 3481s TE had been kidnapped to KOC. Time stopped. LG was at the palace with Guard Seok and started to notice pattern. LL was at the dock in KOC.
18. 3721s Time stopped. LG and TE were at the church. PM Koo returned to KOC, LL went to ROK and bumped into SJ.
19. 4489s The number LG circled on the board.
@Alxmar97
Thank you for the ENDGAME reference. I’m a hardcore fan of the MCU. And, honestly, the way they handled time travel was the time I actually thought I could understand how it works. But, like you said, we have different approaches to this subject, so let’s see how KES chooses to tie this whole thing up 😆
I thought the library was also the same in KOC and ROK? from an earlier episode when LG returned to KOC he went to the library and there was a superimposition of him and TE in the ROk counterpart library.
Ok! You’re in! For doing this, you qualify as a Bitch. I’ll repost on blog.
That is some details there @Rahrah! 👏🏻
Welcome to bitches! ☺️
@JT7 – the pattern is indeed length of the nth time stop corresponds to the square of the nth prime number” I may have posted the excel file I worked on for this last week? But if I did not, you can check it here —
https://imgur.com/nTEJ4td.
Look at the two rows I highlighted:
– 4,489 is the number LG encircled on the board. That is the 19th instance with 67 as the prime number. Why did he encircle it? Cos that was the next anticipated instance, which corresponded to their chapel visit. Time froze for 1.2 hours. Imagine LG crying/waiting for TE & their current world to “wake up” for that long so they can take the picture.
– As you can see, on the 62nd instance, where the prime number is 293, time will stop for a day — as the math wizard king mentally worked it out.
The show or translation of the process used square root cos LG was calculating backwards. He knew the length of frozen time and from there determined the pattern.
LG has his brain. We? We have excel, haha.
@Rahrah Amazing job!
@mychoiyoung Is 4489 the one at the church or the next one to come? I took it as the next one to come but now you’re making me doubt!
That is amazing work @rahrah! U managed to fill the gaps. 👏🏻 Only one thing: 18th time stop has a double crossing: Pm Koo back to KOC, LL to ROK?
LG made his moves in secret in the earlier years because he was a fugitive in Corea. But when you look at him in Korea, he freely moves cos nobody knows him there. In later years, as he realized he wasn’t aging, he became bolder in Corea. Plus the fact that by that time, he has already built his own army, own hospital, own shipyard & what have you plus support entrenched in high places.
I am not sure that LR gives a hoot re the time stops. I think that goes over his head. All he craves is to get the other half of the flute. That’s his be-all & end-all.
Meanwhile we can see that he is even now excited being found out in Corea. Why? because then the public would see or know about his supernatural power of staying young, of the lies the Palace perpetuated all these years (thanks to the Prince). These will create chaos& effectively bring down the Monarchy. And he have not even gotten the other half of the flute at this point.
That’s why it was important for the Monarchy to just establish that recent terrorist attacks are coming from LR’s supporter, not him. He is dead for all intents & purposes.
@mychoiyoung: ah no I didn’t see your file earlier, did u share it in the comments here? Anyway, I have to declare u queen of excel files, it’s much clearer in table form! 👍🏻👍🏻
Just a thought, has anyone come up with a timeline of dated events yet? If no, would you like to help me & work together on a table for that in google sheets? My brain is getting fried trying to place everything & a table would be most helpful.
Does 4489 correspond to the time stop at the church? If so then @rahrah’s list can be edited to:
18: Pm Koo crosses back to KOC
19: Time stop at church, LL crosses to ROK and meets SJ.
This solves the issue of the double crossing of PM and LL to opposite sides.
@Bliss wow I did not see that spoiler coming, thank you for the link. The clothes are from ep1 for sure. But the cute little girl in taekwondo clothes… Is it safe to assume LG visited JTE at the taekwondo center?
@kuroshio – re the poem, is it steam, not stream?
Awww, LMH loves Maximus. 🥰
https://www.instagram.com/p/CApBi6SgYJL/?igshid=iljv3zlcr1am
Does 4489 correspond to the time stop at the church?..
@JT7 Yes, that’s how i interpreted the sequence.
I feel that LG sensed TE’s curiosity about the outfit that he was wearing in episode 10 when they were choosing her clothes especially when she said she doesn’t like flowers. LG had that look as if he didn’t believe her. The one that she planted from KOC was imaginary flowers right? She even searched for magic tulips on her phone.
He wears that outfit at the most glorious moment. It was glorious and heartbreaking at the same time. ☹️
@agdr3 why he said glorious is beyond me. In ep 10, he looked distraught to the extent that some viewers thought it was a robe for mourning.
She said she doesn’t like flowers to save him the trouble of traversing time and space ? She knows it isn’t doing any good to him. I suppose it’s like that with her withholding of demonstrations of her affection as well. She doesn’t want to be his weakness.
It’s like @pm3 says. Role reversal in present with TE in many ways in this drama. Usually it’s the guy who behaves like this. Good change 🙂
@agdr03 LMH actually gave our Maximus so many gifts? Wow😍😍😍 Now I like the MaxiMin couple even more🤩🤩🤩
@agdr03 – Yeah, that jacket of doom is foreboding to TE. Yes to what you said “… glorious and heartbreaking at the same time”
LG’s mission is to close the portal which requires defeating LR & regaining the flute. But TE’s call in life is to protect the people and the ones she love. Isn’t it interesting that closing the portal achieves the couple’s respective mission? But at what price?
@JT7 – thanks for the input re HG Group’s son. I have added him to my file.
@packmule3 – see updated file here – https://i.imgur.com/IqNMMrB.png
Oh, I’m sorry @Growing Beautifully (GB)! I fogot to answer you earlier: Thank you for your kind answer to my post about the names of HCL Noh’s family! They warmed this Bitch-wannabe’s heart! 🙂
@ kdramakat: Thank you so much for the links! When I started watching kdramas… eeeeh… became a kdrama addict, 10 moths ago, I would never ever have guessed that a drama would make me read about mathematical equations… I’m pleasantly surprised! 😀
I have been reluctant to bring this up anywhere lest my sanity be questioned, but I think this might be the only place where there could be sympathetic ears! It’s regarding Shin Jae’s favorite flower being mugwort, not lavender. This is from a scene In EP 7 where Shin Jae and Captain Park are eating in a restaurant. Captain Park tells Shin Jae that Jangmi went to considerable trouble to determine that Shin Jae’s favorite flower is lavender, and that is why he put a lavender candle where Shin Jae sleeps. Shin Jae says that is favorite flower is actually mugwort, and he says mugwort twice. Captain Park replies “mugwort” and then there is a sound of a woman’s voice moaning or saying something I can’t make out. Am I the only one that hears that? I don’t think this is a throwaway scene (no PPL!) and it ends with Captain Park making seeming unrelated comments about snow. It’s still curious how Captain Park has requested his subordinates to be his alibi for this meetings with “loneliness” in EP 5, and “solitude” in EP 10 – what is he really doing at night?
@ Jane M – I agree the whole Captain Park issue is a curious subplot. He’s asked for an alibi a few times so there has to be something deeper here. I doubt he’s having an affair. To me, it seems he is going somewhere at night to do a stake out of some kind since he calls it solitude and loneliness – sitting in a police car for long hours staking out someone can be lonely perhaps? He’s hiding his activities from his wife but not coworkers, so to me it implies a job related activity which he can’t tell anyone about but poses some danger that he doesn’t want his wife to worry about.
I am also wondering if Shin Jae, knew Luna from the ROC – not much is known about her childhood that I can recall, but, it’s interesting that Shine Jae has some deep connection to TE when in fact his connection might have started with her counterpart Luna in ROC –maybe childhood friends.
There is some inherit good in Luna, her care for animals and the yoyo boy shows she’s not some sociopath despite her behaviour. She’s empathetic. Does wrong but knows she is doing wrong and seems to accept she will be punished. And maybe she was not always a thief, thug, etc.but circumstances led her to a life of crime.
Any chance the Church could be a portal — same church same spot in both worlds? and any chance that there are people of authority in Korea that were already aware of the presence of LL before TE and LG discovered it?
and may be aware of this crossing over from one world to another.
Hopefully we have an ending that doesn’t lead to more questions. Because at this point the ending can go in a million different directions depending on which time loop or time pattern the main characters end up all being together in.
@Jane M You are not imagining things. There’s a muffled ‘voice-like’ sound after they say ‘Mugwort’. I put it down to bad editing or bad audio control, LOL.
Until more is shown about Chief Park, it’s hard to think that he’s a suspicious character. We have seen his doppelganger in KOC, therefore this is the original Chief Park. I have a theory that he finds his wife ‘scary’ (as evidenced by how mincing he was in her presence at the supermarket. He was sort of asking her permission to be out although couched in words as if he was telling her… it sounded more like he was asking for a favour), and just does not want to spend time at home, with her alone.
He invents excuses that he’s with his colleagues to stay away from wife LOL.
LL’s plans are already screwed if he thought he could trap LG w/ his mom.
In episode 9, when LG & JTE were scouting in nowhere land …
LG: I guess you were troubled since Song Jeong-hye will have the face of my mother, right?
JTE: I thought that you maybe you’d want to see her.
LG: Not at all. Like how Yeong and Eun-sup are different, she is not my mother either. The face is just a symbol of a person.
There’s something we haven’t talked about, and that’s the King’s Ring, which is now in the possession of Lee Gon. Here’s a picture of the ring from ep. 8, time mark 45:30, when Prince Buyeong was looking at it.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/17z8suIfcpGaXKoBUwHTv6y3DFobJsm4r/view?usp=sharing
See a recurring theme? The root-like markings even extend from the bezel onto the shoulders of the ring.
Per the Wikipedia article on regalia, a ring symbolizes the monarch’s “marriage” to the state. As a signet-ring, it is a seal of authenticity and legal authority. We haven’t been given the history of this ring, other than Prince Buyeong telling LL, “It’s the king’s ring that doesn’t belong to us.” It was supposed to be passed from King Haejong to King Lee Ho, but somehow Prince Imperial Geum intercepted it. Lee Lim wore it while killing King Lee Ho and trying to kill Crown Prince Lee Gon. It was still on his hand when he fled to ROK, bloodied from the murder. It was on the hand of LL’s ROK doppelganger, Lee Seong Jae, when his body washed up in KOC and Prince Buyeong performed the autopsy. Prince Buyeong kept the ring hidden from King Lee Gon for 24 years, for a reason we haven’t been shown. All that time, the King’s Ring was not with its rightful owner.
No matter how much Lee Lim wished, the ring could never confer legitimacy on him, political or personal. On his hand, the ring was a symbol of treachery. When the doctor who performed the autopsy on Prince Buyeong gave Lee Gon the King’s Ring, LG knew LL was using it as provocation. (I’m glad the autopsy doctor told LG the ring had been placed on Prince Buyeong’s finger after he was killed. It would be another blow to LG to learn PB had hidden the ring from him for 25 years, especially since LG had asked PB to not hide things from him.) LG hated the ring because it represented enormous loss to him as a person and to Corea as a kingdom. He flung it away, rejecting the ring as well as the negative symbolism LL attached to it. He threw the baby out with the bathwater, but Fate gave Lee Gon a second chance to claim the ring, and he took it. He could have walked away, knowing it would continue its trajectory once the time stop was over. [That time stop was when PM Koo went to ROK.] But on Lee Gon’s hand, where it belongs, the King’s Ring would be a symbol of covenant between king and kingdom, and of lawful rule.
The Four Tiger Sword is the king’s duty in tangible form. Crown Prince Lee Gon was taught by his father, King Lee Ho, “Only the king can become owner of the Four Tiger Sword.” Its stated purpose, inscribed on the blade, is for a sage [characterized by wisdom, prudence, and good judgment], with deep thought, to wield it to defeat evil and make things right. Lee Lim perverted the purpose of Four Tiger Sword. After he used it to kill the legitimate king, it lay abandoned for 25 years in the ruins of Cheonjongo. Lee Gon chose to become the active, rather than passive, owner of Four Tiger Sword when he retrieved it from Cheonjongo and returned it to the case in his chambers.
The flute Manpasikjeok with its supernatural powers was a gift to a king and thereafter appeared to a succession of kings in a 20-year cycle. Its intended purpose was for the king to play it to bring relief to his people in times of trouble. Lee Lim covets Manpasikjeok because he wants to control and exploit two worlds for his own benefit. Only those people who serve his purposes have value to him, all others are expendable. He does not care about people’s needs, and is heedless of the harm he causes. Lee Gon is at first motivated by curiosity to use Manpasikjeok, but soon his motivation becomes love. He rushes to ROK when he is able because he loves Tae Eul and wants to be with her. He goes back to Corea because he loves his kingdom and acknowledges his duty to his people. Out of love, Lee Gon is motivated to stop the use of Manpasikjeok to move between worlds, because he recognizes the enormous cost.
We don’t yet know if there is supernatural power in Four Tiger Sword and the King’s Ring, but with mythology so powerfully woven throughout this drama, I would be surprised if there weren’t. Think of all the myths where the hero gains items that help him succeed in his quest. Lee Gon is the rightful owner and now has possession of the ring, the sword, and half of the flute. Properly used, Manpasikjeok restores balance. Wielded wisely, Four Tiger Sword defeats evil and sets things right. The King’s Ring validates Lee Gon’s just use of power. I think King Lee Gon is on the path to reclaim the King’s Ring, Four Tiger Sword, and Manpasikjeok for their true purposes in their full power.
@welmaris please accept 🍪 🍪 you are 😍
Can I please drag Harry Potter again ? The Elder wand, the resurrection stone and the invisibility cloak! They are also three !! The possession of these three together will make the owner immortal. Eternal. Something that Lee Gon inspite of being the rightful owner of the objects, does not desire. Just like Harry. Immortality never interested Harry. Limitless power never appealed his imagination. Just like Lee Gon. Lee Gon can have just any woman he wants within the Kingdom of Corea (or maybe even Korea. After all, greed for power and money is helping LL secure followers even in Korea) In return of queendom, that woman may be at his command for life. But instead, his dreams are filled with a woman who calls him by name (or worst, just a “YAA”), threatens to punch him a number of times, wins him the owner of trillions of dollars toys at fairs, flat on refuses his proposals and all in all isn’t really enamored by his powerful status.
It is said that apart from being the rightful heir the wand, stone and cloak (three!) favoured Harry precisely because his morals and virtue were unmoved by their power or the immortality they offered. Just like Lee Gon.
Speaking of mythology, @Packmule, should we even try to plug TK.EM into Joseph Campbell’s template of the Hero’s Journey?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZOfd-MOCF6D-tPz07FVhZWqVsT3Sw9ja/view?usp=sharing
For those who want an introduction to Joseph Campbell’s work, you can look up Hero’s Journey on Wikipedia. There are also interesting variations on the journey chart here: http://www.sfcenter.ku.edu/Workshop-stuff/Joseph-Campbell-Hero-Journey.htm.
Apologies if you have addressed this question earlier, but it has been bothering me since the earlier episodes and I cannot find logical answer anywhere.
Young LG was hurt by LL on the left side of his neck, how come TE saw the healed scar on the right side of the adult LG? Anyone guessed why? Is this related to time loop and perhaps LL hurt LG on different side in different loops, or? If you have discussed this already please point me to the page. Thanks in advance!
Go ahead, Welmaris. That’s an interesting idea. If you want to write it, just go ahead, and I’ll repost for you on the blog.
I’m sorry. I’m swamped with work this week. And without my full staff, I feel like TaeEul with only 2 magic bullets left. 🙂 But on the bright side, I can go to my office with minimum make-up and flat shoes.
already discussed this.
https://bitchesoverdramas.com/2020/04/26/the-king-the-incredible-moving-scar/
@JT7, I worked on timeline for episodes 1-6, and 9-10. I can send my notes to you if you want to complete the project. You can either reveal your email address in a comment and I’ll send things to you directly, or we can email through @packmule3. She doesn’t always have time to check her BoD emails, though, so going through her may take longer.
“I’m swamped with work this week. And without my full staff, I feel like TaeEul with only 2 magic bullets left.😊”
Howdy! Hmm what’s with the two bullets? 🤔 I did wonder why LG fired it. I’m back to the office Monday to Thursday next week.
I’m going to watch two cdramas, My Love Enlighten Me and The Romance of Tiger and Rose. ☺️
@packmule, I imagine @WEnchantear would come up with something far more creative than I would. We’ve also got a number of new Bitches that may have interesting takes on the concept. Anyone out there want to try it?
Good points, Welmaris. Will repost on blog with comments, so I can find this later.
There’s something about the King’s ring that bugged me. I can’t put a finger on it. 🙂
@Arihsi and @mychoiyoung, yeah, TE didn’t say anything about the flowers and that meeting with that LG because as much as it made her heart full because LG said he loves her deeply, it also meant he’s somewhere else and not with her. For sure we will see that glorious jacket again.
@Packmule, where’s the groaning-at-bad-pun emoji when I need it?
I hope your time in the office today is productive. As for your wearing flats, I’m picturing the canvas shoes of the savior…
Yeah, the ring is enigmatic. Why did Lee Lim have it? Why did he come get it from Prince Buyeong, insisting it was his by right of primogeniture, then leave it on dead PB’s hand? There was a look of recognition on LG’s face when the doctor handed it to him, but was that recognition solely in relation to LL wearing it during the coup, or does LG know more of its history? Inquiring minds want to know.
Also, as a signet ring, it is rather odd. It isn’t a recognized emblem of the monarchy such as the plum blossom, a crown, a dragon (like on the robes), or the hanja/hangul of the ruling family’s surname. I imagine the imprint it would make in wax or clay wouldn’t be beautiful in the conventional sense. Is what we see the original design, or has the ring been damaged? And that strip of red running lengthwise near the middle: is that blood, or part of the design? I’m leaning away from it being blood, because both Lee Lim and Prince Buyeong had possession of it after the regicide, so you’d think one of them would have cleaned it. It also was in water a length of time while on the finger of LL’s double before his body washed up in KOC.
Must sleep now, or dawn will catch me.
Yes @Phoenix! LMH gave those goodies to Maximus. 🥰 I have a feeling he will miss Maximus a lot. I think they’ve finished filming now.
@Welmaris, now that you put this together, it reminded me a lot of Harry Potter 😅 we got the ring (it was actually the Resurrection Stone disguised), we got the flute (the Elder Wand) and we got the sword (gryffindor sword wasn’t part of the Deathly hallows but it played a huge part on destroying them). We are only missing the cloak of invisibility, I think
@pm3. Thanks for pointing me to your post about the scar. I can hardly bear to examine the bloody scenes over and over but appreciate your explanation. I’m glad to learn about cinematography too.
@ agdr03: Thank you for the IG-link! That makes me happy! 🙂
(That’s it… I’m done… The Equestrian in me can’t resist something like this… Now I have fallen for LMH too… Oooooops!)
#MaxMinForever!
Now I’m waiting for news about LMH following in the footsteps of Viggo Mortensen. 😀
(While playing Aragorn in the LOTR movies, VM developed such a close bond with the horse that ”played” Brego (the brown one that Aragorn was riding during the 2nd and 3rd LOTR-movies), that he didn’t want to part from him when the filming wrapped. So he purchased the horse and took him back home to his own ranch in the US. Swoooon!)
Source:
https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Brego_(horse)
Back to TKEM:
The script have included several non-riding LG & Max interactions, that showed what a close bond they have, and I have enyoyed every second of it! I really appreciate that they have given Maximus a greater part in the story than merely to create the old the-Hero-always-ride-on-a-white-horse trope. Hoooray!
PS: Can I join the MaxMin Fanclub? Pleeeeeaaaaaase!
*down on my knees, rubbing my palms, korean-pleading-style
@Vikingheart I believe I speak for all of us in the MaxMin Fanclub that you’re most welcome! I look forward to the next episodes where Max makes his/her appearance again. Definitely at the time LG faces the portal once again, with The Four Tiger Sword in hand, Max will be play a major role. 😀
Have you visited us here: http://bitchesoverdramas.com/2020/04/28/the-king-birds-bees-and-horses/ ?
Watch out on Instagram cause they’re sharing spoilers!!! I think I just ate a big one.
Crowd-control management has completely failed!
Could you share the link pretty please @Alxmar97?
Thank you!
P. S. I think LMH routinely gets mobbed. I heard something about how they mobbed him on way to report for Army service. The authorities were miffed because S.K. takes the reporting event very seriously.
@alxmar97 agree! too many spoilers 😂😭 I must admit the tension in my bones dissipates looking at them. About the crowd-control, I’ve seen one spoiler that had a female staff shooing the person taking the vid. Other than that, no further control.
I have seen maybe 3 or 4 outfits and places but I’m not sure if I am allowed to send links. Some may not want spoilers while some may find these helpful for assumptions of future eps.
@Arihsi…open at your own discretion!
*****SPOILER*****
https://www.instagram.com/p/CArylcqA_QV/?igshid=1gaecw39k1qfs
@juliette I think we saw the same one. Some scenes are shot in crowded places so I guess it’s hard to control onlookers.
@packmule3: I just emailed you the spreadsheet for time stops and deja vus, I hope it got through? Hang in there for work!
@Welmaris: OH yes please, that would be great! my email is makingmum at gmail dot com. Thank you so much!!!
@Alxmar97 thank you for the link.
Me 🤦
@Vikingheart, I second @GB in welcoming you to MaxMin Fanclub! 😉☺️
I’m not sure if LMH will do what Viggo Mortensen did with Maximus but he probably can afford it? 😁 But we can see that they’ve become close so that’s a good thing already. Yes, Maximus did an awesome job in making King LG more regal and more handsome in every way possible so we will definitely miss their tandem together. 🥰
@Vikimgheart:
Welcome to the Maxmin Club😊😊
As GB said, anybody who loves our Maximus and horses is most welcome to join us!
Our membership fee is nominal – only some carrots, apples, lemon candies and polo mints🥕🥕🥕🥕
Though you may need to use fruity shampoo from time to time, but that’s optional😛😛😛
The way MaxMin charged into that horde of LL’s minions to save JTE is the stuff of dreams🤩🤩🤩
#MaxMinforever
We can confirm below that our Maximus is male. He’s name is Benjamin. 🥰 #MaximusandLeeGon❤️ #WeLoveMaxMin ❤️
https://www.instagram.com/p/CAtsPQshfu9/?igshid=h6p65rjee59q
Benjamin? What a nice name! Thank you, @agdr03.
So true @Fern, it is a nice name, Benjamin. ☺️
I wonder when can we see another fine horse like him in a drama.
Ah ‘Ben’!! What a lovely name. One of my fave guy names. Happens to be a name of an ex-bf LOL. However I did not name my son Ben.
Wonder what’s with show changing Max into a ‘Maxine’. He was such a gentleman and a true ‘stud’ 😀
@GB, I’m not sure why Ben became Lady Maximus but I guess it doesn’t matter because we love him whether boy or girl. ☺️😉
So probably, there is no episode tomorrow due to some movie that is going to be aired instead. That movie seems to be “contagion” which is a 2011 film ! Ahm. Why would they cancel a current series for a ten year old movie is beyond my understanding. It may be related to the pandemic but really,aren’t we past the stage of “learning” from movies?
Maybe they need more time to edit. If it involves complex back and forth movements through time, I’d rather they edit it well.
Where did you see that there won’t be any episode tomorrow @Arihsi?
@Arihsi, is the delay certain? Perhaps a need to edit as you say, due to viewer response. Perhaps it is a win-win situation for the series as well as the film.
@agdr03, yes, we may have to switch to historical dramas or cowboys for the horses! I don’t think there are many modern films that feature a horse as fine as Benjamin. Love the photo: he’s saying “Aren’t I just?” 😉😂❤
Love the photo: he’s saying “Aren’t I just?” 😉😂❤
@Fern, Yeesss! 😂 Benjamin knows too that he’s quite a handsome horse. 😍
@agdr03 I always knew our Maximus was a heartthrob. He just didn’t look like a Lady Maximus! I think the subbers got it wrong somehow. That pic of Benjamin made my day😍😍😍 Thanks for sharing🙌
@Fern Yess..those cowboy westerns where tough looking cowboys ride off into the sunset😛
I’m going to miss our MaxMin after this drama is over.
@Arihsi What?!!!😤 Why?😡 I was so looking forward to tomorrow’s episode😨 But shouldn’t Netflix at least upload it? How does telecast of some other movie affect a Netflix show? It’s not a TV channel. Do you mean because it isn’t being shown on the SK TV channel due to some other program, it cannot be shown on Netflix too? That’s just so unfair😠😠😠
https://www.soompi.com/article/1403184wpp/the-king-eternal-monarch-not-airing-this-friday
Sounds very strange. Even if the broadcasting channel is unhappy with lack of expected popularity, this is a strange way of punishment. Contagion is unlikely to help with COVid awareness and it just sounds weird.
@Phoenix me too me too 😞 Today has been such a horrible day. COVid has done so much collateral damage. It is beyond the scope of this blog but like so many other areas, research apart from Virology (not my expertise) is struggling serevely with lack of capital.
Back to TKEM 🙂 In my country, Netflix has already updated the broadcast schedule of Ep 13 to May 30th. Last ep to air on June 12th.
There has to have been a very compelling reason to make this change. They can’t leave the series hanging and there is another drama in queue already waiting for broadcast back to back. TKEM has done decently well internationally so there is no reason for the broadcast company to reschedule as a way to “get back” in an unprofessional way.
I’m suspecious that they may have made some major last minute changes in the script/editing or re-shot scenes under a fresh director. People anyway seemed surprised that they were shooting till yesterday given it was partially pre-produced.
Oh dear, this kind of last minute postponement may not auger well. We trust that they have more time to edit. I hope the poor crew get a bit of rest!!
I’m guessing that Ep 14 needs a lot of work. f they were filming until yesterday, then the last few days’ work would be for Ep 14. The pushing of Ep 13 to Saturday gives them a week to work on Ep 14 which should air on Fri 5 June. Hwaiting Bitches! and Hwaiting TE:EM team!!
@Phoenix, heartthrob indeed, our dear Maximus. 😍 I will miss him too. 😞
Maybe they made him a Lady just to show that LG have three women who loves him, TE, Lady Noh and Lady Maximus. 😉
@Arihsi, thank you for the link. It’s a bummer but we cannot do anything about it. Maybe it is for the better and who knows? It might turn out to be great for the last 4 episodes. 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻
Oooo @agdr3 my thoughts exactly. But I’m surprised Maxi is a stallion. Aren’t male horses hard to deal with/tame ?
P.S. I’m very scared of horses in real life. The only horses I’ve “met” are trained for equestrian therapy. They’re unequivocally females. Never a male in my experience.
P. P. S. There have been legends of horses sacrificing their own life to save their king. I hope Maxi gets out of this fine. Lee will be devastated if Maxi “takes the bullet” for him in the final battle.
We don’t want Lady Maximus to sacrifice his life for LG. 🙅🏻♀️ I’m positive, she’ll be fine. 😉🤞🏻
I read on Instagram that Benjamin and LMH have been very close two months before filming started so they’ve bonded already, that’s probably why LMH and him are comfortable with each other. ☺️ That’s why he’s very close and loves to smell LMH’s hair. 😂
Yes, I’ve seen the images @agdr3. So cute ! Like TE isn’t affected by LG being THE king, Ben doesn’t care that LMH is THE hallyu star. Ben just likes LMH and would like that to be known.
Horses are amazing. Just like dogs I suppose (I’m very scared of those too. Such a wuss) They accomplish at times what humans can not in terms of therapy with their infinite patience, perseverance and gentle gentle attitude. I’ve never known a horse loose its patience at therapy no matter how violent/angry/inexperienced it’s young rider.
“Ben just likes LMH and would like that to be known.”
And that is the main point @Arihsi 😉🥰 I’m not an animal lover as such too but I think I can handle really small cute puppies. I’m not into cats too. I remember I got bitten by a dog when I was young but our family never had any pets at all so that’s probably why I’m not used to them too. 😊
@Growing Beautifully (GB), “The pushing of Ep 13 to Saturday gives them a week to work on Ep 14 which should air on Fri 5 June.”
Yes, it could be a blessing in disguise.
@Arihsi Maximus (Benjamin) is a gelding I think…he’s err…had the snip…so much much easier to handle. 🙂. Or at least I think so…I haven’t had a close look. But he behaves like a gelding…you’re right that stallions are hard to handle. Lots of testosterone.
That’s fine. They can delay as much as they want as long as they give us a HAPPY ENDING. 😂
Or even a sensible ending. Happy would be better, though. 😂
Poor horse, he gets the snip and then they call him ‘Lady.’ How insulting.
Happy Ending! 🙏
Happy Ending! 🙏
Happy Ending! 🙏
@Fern, yeah they should have left it at Maximus.
What? What snip? What are you talking about?
You mean our ladies got it right all along?Maximus is a stallion but a castrated one? But that would make him a “gelding.” 😂
Wait what about that Yo-yo Kid? Now I’m getting confused.
Yes. Sensible ending is one thing. Happy ending is another. At this point, I just want to be happy, so I’m rooting for happy ending, please. 😂😂
Let’s trust in the power of whether it’s the flute, the sword or the ring that KES will give us Haaaaaappy Ending!!!!!! Tomorrow is Friday and it’s the 13th episode, you know some old wives tale! Maybe it’s better that the 13th episode will be aired on Saturday!
I’m signing in for MaxMin Club!
Welcome to MaxMin FanClub @Eureka! ☺️
This is our small membership fee as stated by our club President @Phoenix – some carrots, apples, lemon candies and polo mints🥕 and the use of fruity shampoo from time to time, but that’s optional. Thanks 😄
If it was a matter of needing more time to edit, that would have been ok. However, this article says that the Production & actors were not even given advance notice. It is not in English so I cannot vouch for the accuracy but other posters who read it said the same thing.
Why Contagion? Why not a COVID documentary? Why bump off the 10pm slot? Wouldn’t a prime slot of say 7pm or 8pm better serve the purpose?
This drama cannot catch a break. More bullets for the haters to shoot TKEM, eh?
http://www.spotvnews.co.kr/?mod=news&act=articleView&idxno=359024
@arihsi I may or may not have seen a time-travel spoiler of LG and TE.
I vow not to open instagram from this moment until Saturday. What I’m seeing is taking a toll on my sleeping pattern. 🙈
Wait what about that Yo-yo Kid? Now I’m getting confused.
@packmule3 – The Yoyo Kid is indeed a girl
Picture of character with link to her wiki page
https://i.imgur.com/8FU0c7k.png
Her wiki page
http://asianwiki.com/Kim_Bo-Min_(2010)
@Eureka Welcome to the MaxMin Club! Do bring carrots and lemon candies🥕🥕🥕
“Sensible ending is one thing. Happy ending is another. At this point, I just want to be happy, so I’m rooting for happy ending, please.”
@packmule3 Totally agree🙏🙏🙏 I NEED a happy ending✌
@agdr03 With you on this🙌
Thanks @agdr03 and @Phoenix! My first time to join a fan club!
@alxmar97 @juliette @arihsi speaking of spoilers, did you guys see this one? It gave me a headache because it claims that the name on his name tag is…
https://www.instagram.com/p/CArvul9p5IA/?igshid=c24ema39skyp
Sigh, now we have to wait an additional day for the next episode, & an additional week for the finale! 🙁
Ouch. I need a headache tablet now. Looks like a nice upright fella, though. 😁
@JT7 Yes, I did! I’ve seen a video of him carrying a briefcase and a seargent cap for this scene. Is the nametag confirmed? My toes are curling.
I think this is the biggest one I’ve seen so far https://www.instagram.com/p/CAuA1cEAGnz/?igshid=1eaiacyvd4oht
@Fern Ya its too mind-boggling already! They’ve left so many loose ends my brain is just going on overdrive. I hope they manage to tie everything up nicely!
@juliette I saw a few posts claiming the name tag says so. The uniform is navy in colour, so it’s def different from LG’s white uniform? Oh, yes I saw similar ones too, as well as this https://www.instagram.com/p/CAuhKxnpzIz/?igshid=12kjherl8b47j (notice the necklace?)
@jt7 true, it could be from his navy uniform. And yes, I did see it. ❤️ But I’ve also seen a photo where she only wears a black pair of earrings. Idk which is used in the filming anymore 😭 from their wrap-up group photo, she doesn’t wear any.
@pkml3 and @Fern Here’s to a happy and sensible ending!
Speaking of being a blessing in disguise, the delay actually is a blessing for me, because it would have been distracting if I had a Friday episode that I could not watch. My retreat ends on Saturday, and then I’ll have some time to give Ep 13 attention. This way I don’t have to bother about spoilers on Saturday morning either. 😂
Hmmm… that name tag and the thought of Lee Ji Hun’s mum being the ultimate bait is beginning to tickle my sleepy brain.
lol. I must have missed the news. There’s no TKEM tomorrow? What about Saturday? Are we having TKEM this weekend?
I’ll work on a piece for Lady Noh later.
Prayers for retreat! I guess you can go on a retreat even with the covid since you really need to be distant from each other.
Okay. I’m up next on this zoom conference. Have to focus now. 🙂
Thanks for the prayers @pkml3.
LOL, it’s a remote retreat, via Zoom too! So all done at home, at our own time, in our own little prayer spaces.
Have a good meeting!
CURIOUS THINGS
1. Change in translation Epi 12
It took me a while to re-watch epi 12 cos am being sentimental (go figure!). I noticed that the translation of an important story element in the bedroom scene has been changed
ORIGINALLY:
Screencap – https://imgur.com/SAMXvtt
NOW (for the bolded portion only)
LG: “It’s strange. This means it’s not connected to crossing the two worlds.”
Screencap – https://imgur.com/Vz4TbhR
What do you make of that?
2. Calendar in Episode 1:
The regicide happened in 1994. So how come the calendar shown in the shop of PM’s mom is Dec 1995? – https://imgur.com/On31BUs
Production error? Or something else?
Let me know what you think. Thanks
@Welmaris – I did bring up the case of THE RING way back in The King: Epis 9 & 10 Open Thread. Reposting my thoughts on it here:
Fast-forward to the episode where the Prince was murdered & LG threw the ring out of anger & confirmation that it was LR who killed the Prince AND suddenly time froze, I was shouting at my screen “Get it! Get it back!”
What intrigued me about the ring & its possible role is its design as it resembles tree roots or the scar burns.
Am glad I am not alone in considering the ring to have a more significant role in this story.
P. S. I think LMH routinely gets mobbed. I heard something about how they mobbed him on way to report for Army service. The authorities were miffed because S.K. takes the reporting event very seriously.
@Arihsi – On his way to report for Army Service, YES there were tons of videos of him reporting for duty. And when I say tons, I mean effin’ tons of videos of his initial reporting & get this, his DAILY reporting for his army duty. The daily reporting accompanied a countdown to when he will be done with his military service. Talk about dedication.
But he was not mobbed. His fans were respectful and organized. I have to give it to them. They just wanted a glimpse of him & hand him gifts – lots of gifts! And this happened all throughout his almost 2 year service. Amazing.
@mychoiyoung I agree that the dictionary meaning of “mobbed” is crowd around someone in an unruly way. But I merely meant the crowd. I’m not someone who follows any entertainment industry or any individual within it (not Korean, not Hollywood, not any other). So I wouldn’t know such details. Good that they were organised.
Ok guys, my brain is on overdrive trying to connect everything, & Episode 13’s delayed airing is not helping. The spoiler pics I’m seeing on IG are making it worse! Anyway, I tried to link all the future events because I so want a happy ending, could you guys please help me read through & tell me what you think???
@Welmaris, thanks so much for your super detailed timeline, it was most helpful!
I’m trying to fit everything in, so here’s noting what we already know:
Glimpses into the future:
-2020 interrogation of LL by SJ and TE (or Luna?). They have case notes with the KOC emblem on them.
-LG dressed in the suit, holding the sword, in front of the portal
-LG from the future visiting TE to give her flowers, dressed in the same suit
-2022 video of TE walking past the bookstore, with yoyo girl outside
-Spoiler pic on IG (not verified if true): Adult LG visits child TE, & gives her her mother’s black belt
-Spoiler pics on IG (not verified if true): Lee Ji Hun as an adult, in a blue Navy uniform
Assumptions:
-Time travel is possible (2 instances shown), but I can’t go into the mechanics because all the quantum physics stumps me.
-LG recognises that there is a God, and he will not attempt to disrupt the balance/flow of events if possible, but something later happens to make him try to move things along more.
-The 2 worlds existed even before the splitting of the flute, since Lady Noh crossed from ROK to KOC before that. This also means crossings between the 2 worlds was possible even before LG/LL started crossing, so I take it that the flute is needed to open the portal, but splitting the flute created 2 different pathways to cross.
My ideas (am still unsure for this but I want to account for Ep 13 spoilers):
-They discover that Luna is in ROK impersonating TE, so LG crosses back with TE (hence the phone call where TE speaks with Luna, and Luna says they can’t meet).
-LG gets shot by LL (hence the pic of him in hospital, I am assuming he is in ROK since the ward looks spartan & not like a ward for a king).
-LL gets caught & arrested by ROK police. Cuts back to the scene of the 2020 interrogation where LL tells his incredible tale. They have the KOC case notes because LG passes them to SJ. SJ starts to believe this whole crazy idea that the 2 worlds exist, Luna (who is impersonating TE) has to pretend all this is new to her.
More ideas (to tie up time travel, the scenes from the future, & give us a happy ending) :
– LG discovers some way to travel back in time. He realizes that he was the one who saved his child self, & that he has to go back in time to allow this sequence of events to play out as they have. So he brushes up on his terrible shooting skills, taught by TE. LOL.
-He goes back in time to save himself as a child. Timeline then continues as we have seen it so far.
-But after this, LL manages to kill TE, or something equally drastic. Probably at the point of time just before LG marries TE (I had the impression that the suit was actually a wedding suit, since LG mentioned he would wear it when he was holding flowers, like a groom waiting for his bride).
-LG is distraught, & this pushes him to try to change history more, in order to save TE. Hence, while wearing his suit, he decides to go to battle with LL & returns to the scene where his father was killed by LL.
-Before going to battle, he goes back to the past to visit TE and give her flowers (he says he realized he never gave her flowers, it seems as if she has died in the future). It’s his way of telling her to hang in there, plus him bolstering his courage to face LL (just like how he crosses to call TE to hear her voice, before he faced off with LL on New Year’s Day).
-So now he changes the course of history more, in order to save TE’s life. So instead of the masked shooter, we have adult LG with the sword, & he kills LL on the spot.
-But this means history has to rewind itself at this point & there is a totally new sequence of events. All the grief, murder & trouble LL has caused is undone. But there is one problem: his child self would have no way of knowing or meeting TE. So LG leaves the ID tag there as a reminder to himself, just like in the previous flow of events.
-He assumes he can still cross over the ROK to find TE when he grows up, since he still has the (now intact) flute. But it will be the case of being Kim gae dong again, but there will no longer be all these dangerous events helping to draw them closer together, & it is likely that flat-earther TE will just dismiss him as a nutjob.
-So he time travels one last time, this time to TE’s past as a child, just after her mother dies. He gives her her mother’s black belt, tells her to be brave, & asks her to remember that in the future her bravery would earn her the title of Queen.
-Since all of LL’s work is undone, it means that SJ grows up in KOC, and his double just passes away from illness. He is poor, but I assume his mum loves him (which was why she wanted to see photos of how her son was doing in ROK).
-LG’s double Lee Ji Hun does not die. Since there is the focus on the idea of choices determining your fate, I’d like to think that Ji Hun’s mother chooses to leave her abusive husband & brings him up alone, & he grows up well & becomes a Navy officer. (So apt because I vaguely recall LL telling LJH’s mum about how her actual son wouldn’t have turned out as well as LG did.)
-Then we cut to 2022, TE is now queen of Corea. It’s her birthday, but she just wants to have an ordinary day being an ordinary citizen of the Kingdom. So she goes for a walk (what we see in surveillance footage previously) & walks past the now cleaned up Eosu bookstore. She sees yoyo girl again, & thinks to herself that the girl looks familiar…
Ok guys, my brain is on overdrive trying to connect everything, & Episode 13’s delayed airing is not helping. The spoiler pics I’m seeing on IG are making it worse! Anyway, I tried to link all the future events because I so want a happy ending, could you guys please help me read through & tell me what you think???
@Welmaris, thanks so much for your super detailed timeline, it was most helpful!
I’m trying to fit everything in, so here’s noting what we already know:
Glimpses into the future:
-2020 interrogation of LL by SJ and TE (or Luna?). They have case notes with the KOC emblem on them.
-LG dressed in the suit, holding the sword, in front of the portal
-LG from the future visiting TE to give her flowers, dressed in the same suit
-2022 video of TE walking past the bookstore, with yoyo girl outside
-Spoiler pic on IG (not verified if true): Adult LG visits child TE, & gives her her mother’s black belt
-Spoiler pics on IG (not verified if true): Lee Ji Hun as an adult, in a blue Navy uniform
Assumptions:
-Time travel is possible (2 instances shown), but I can’t go into the mechanics because all the quantum physics stumps me.
-LG recognises that there is a God, and he will not attempt to disrupt the balance/flow of events if possible, but something later happens to make him try to move things along more.
-The 2 worlds existed even before the splitting of the flute, since Lady Noh crossed from ROK to KOC before that. This also means crossings between the 2 worlds was possible even before LG/LL started crossing, so I take it that the flute is needed to open the portal, but splitting the flute created 2 different pathways to cross.
My ideas (am still unsure for this but I want to account for Ep 13 spoilers):
-They discover that Luna is in ROK impersonating TE, so LG crosses back with TE (hence the phone call where TE speaks with Luna, and Luna says they can’t meet).
-LG gets shot by LL (hence the pic of him in hospital, I am assuming he is in ROK since the ward looks spartan & not like a ward for a king).
-LL gets caught & arrested by ROK police. Cuts back to the scene of the 2020 interrogation where LL tells his incredible tale. They have the KOC case notes because LG passes them to SJ. SJ starts to believe this whole crazy idea that the 2 worlds exist, Luna (who is impersonating TE) has to pretend all this is new to her.
More ideas (to tie up time travel, the scenes from the future, & give us a happy ending)
– LG discovers some way to travel back in time. He realizes that he was the one who saved his child self, & that he has to go back in time to allow this sequence of events to play out as they have. So he brushes up on his terrible shooting skills, taught by TE. LOL.
-He goes back in time to save himself as a child. Timeline then continues as we have seen it so far.
-But after this, LL manages to kill TE, or something equally drastic. Probably at the point of time just before LG marries TE (I had the impression that the suit was actually a wedding suit, since LG mentioned he would wear it when he was holding flowers, like a groom waiting for his bride).
-LG is distraught, & this pushes him to try to change history more, in order to save TE. Hence, while wearing his suit, he decides to go to battle with LL & returns to the scene where his father was killed by LL.
-Before going to battle, he goes back to the past to visit TE and give her flowers (he says he realized he never gave her flowers, it seems as if she has died in the future). It’s his way of telling her to hang in there, plus him bolstering his courage to face LL (just like how he crosses to call TE to hear her voice, before he faced off with LL on New Year’s Day).
-So now he changes the course of history more, in order to save TE’s life. So instead of the masked shooter, we have adult LG with the sword, & he kills LL on the spot.
-But this means history has to rewind itself at this point & there is a totally new sequence of events. All the grief, murder & trouble LL has caused is undone. But there is one problem: his child self would have no way of knowing or meeting TE. So LG leaves the ID tag there as a reminder to himself, just like in the previous flow of events.
-He assumes he can still cross over the ROK to find TE when he grows up, since he still has the (now intact) flute. But it will be the case of being Kim gae dong again, but there will no longer be all these dangerous events helping to draw them closer together, & it is likely that flat-earther TE will just dismiss him as a nutjob.
-So he time travels one last time, this time to TE’s past as a child, just after her mother dies. He gives her her mother’s black belt, tells her to be brave, & asks her to remember that in the future her bravery would earn her the title of Queen.
-Since all of LL’s work is undone, it means that SJ grows up in KOC, and his double just passes away from illness. He is poor, but I assume his mum loves him (which was why she wanted to see photos of how her son was doing in ROK).
-LG’s double Lee Ji Hun does not die. Since there is the focus on the idea of choices determining your fate, I’d like to think that Ji Hun’s mother chooses to leave her abusive husband & brings him up alone, & he grows up well & becomes a Navy officer. (So apt because I vaguely recall LL telling LJH’s mum about how her actual son wouldn’t have turned out as well as LG did.)
-Then we cut to 2022, TE is now queen of Corea. It’s her birthday, but she just wants to have an ordinary day being an ordinary citizen of the Kingdom. So she goes for a walk (what we see in surveillance footage previously) & walks past the now cleaned up Eosu bookstore. She sees yoyo girl again, & thinks to herself that the girl looks familiar…
Ooops so sorry @pm3, I think I accidentally double-posted when my first comment didn’t go through! Too excited already lol
@JT7 Great ideas! I can’t think of any plot hole in what you wrote so far. If show does not go this way, you could make this your fan fic. 😁
@JT7 how wonderful! 👏👏 The only thing, I don’t think LG would be shot. It’d be wierd if he is. He’s fully dressed and there is no blood around. I’d say poisoning (if he’s attacked). Much more discreet and LL’s style since he would not want to invite attention (unlike LG murdering so many people with a sword in the middle of the road with 100s of law enforcement as first row spectators 😉)
P.S. poisoning always takes me back to the Robin Cook classic “Marker”. Intravenous Potassium. My god ! No one will ever know.
Also @JT7 did you perhaps happen upon some other spoilers from instagram?
After those, I’m convinced about what @pm3 wrote many weeks ago. The viewers thought their love story progressed incredibly fast. Actually, not true ! Their love story progressed incredibly slow. Over the time period of years, decades, centuries and maybe life times. TE remembers LG subconsciously from falling in love with him many times over. No matter which timeline and which universe… he waits for her, finds her and loves her. Again and again and again. How romantic.
Makes the hug in EP 1 so poignant instead of a cheesy gesture or a violation of her personal space.
@Arihsi I agree..that’s so romantic 😍 @JT7 wonderful ideas and a happy ending too🙌
Poisoning would also make sense in terms of
1) He has been expecting it since he was eight. Lady Noh had been expecting it toi. She tastes everything he eats beforehand.
2) they also mentioned it when he cooks for her. That’s why he cooks so much. So that he doesn’t need to worry about poisioning.
2) TE kept joking about this food tasting when he’s in ROK. Somehow they don’t seem to expect it here. If he’s poisoned at ROK, TE is bound to feel guilty (presuming she’s alive). She takes her job as the protector of the people of ROK very seriously.
It would be pointless to allude to that possibility so much if they’re not going to utilise it later.
Happy Ending here we come! 🥰🥰🥰
Yes lots of insta spoilers but I welcome it instead of the HP -S1 ending. 🤣
Thanks @JT7 for that breakdown. It makes sense and it’s so meant to be, TE and LG’s love story started early on so it’s love that’s been tested by time and space already. That is cool. ☺️
Okay. So English is not my mother tongue. Sometimes I see things that make me want to exclaim in the language I was born with.
***Please click at your own discretion.***
https://www.instagram.com/p/CAxUNqGpbqF/?igshid=1mha6kcszfvsc
@arihsi YOU DID NOT JUST… 🤯
Thanks @Arihsi, I love a good I miss you so much hugs. 🥰 From that hopefully LG has finished saving his younger self back in 1994.
Let’s look at a bts of the beheading kiss in a different angle. 😉
https://www.instagram.com/p/CAxHKFFAxF9/?igshid=1kgaqjos2kz1v
Wow this thread is loooong!
@JT7 thank you for sharing your analysis taking into context the IG spoilers around. Parallel worlds + time-travel + doppelgangers and a lot of flashbacks are too much even for teasers! hahaha.
I cannot unsee what I’ve seen and at this point in time, I will just enjoy the roller coaster ride! I can’t wait for tomorrow’s episode. 🙂
#curiositykilledkdramakat
@agdr03 thank you for this! whoever improvised this scene to the one in ep12, you’re a genius! But the end part of this raw scene is much better 😜
https://www.facebook.com/100655864678696/posts/267995341278080/
Special preview of the ff eps released by SBS but couldn’t find the official post from their accounts yet.
@JT7 @arihsi
@agdr3 me too ! I love those type of hugs too ! But the way LG hugs TE in this drama is more as if he was drowning all this while and she’s the air he needs. I’m really taken with LMH in this drama (against my expectations). He’s so convincing ! (I wonder if it’s finally the “gut-wrenching portrayal of an eternal monarch” that we bitches at BoD were wishing to see?)
Thank you for the link @juliette (exclaims in three languages).
@agdr03*
What the **** is wrong with SBS? How can they reveal those scenes! They spoiled big time!
First, the cancellation of today’s episode, then this! Are they sabotaging the drama or what!
I think quite the opposite is the case. They’re trying their hardest to rekindle the lost local viewership 🙂
Wah! Glad my ramblings seem to make sense, I was mainly gunning for a happy ending with all loose ends tied up!
@GB: Ah let me then add this to the end of the fan fic: TE goes into the bookstore to browse, and finds a copy of Kim Sowol’s Azaleas. She opens it, to find a copy of her ID, and a birthday card from LG. “How did you know I was going to choose that book?” “I am the king, I know everything” LOL
@arihsi: You have a good point! Poison does seem like LL’s style, & so apt given all the precautions LG usually takes. I thought perhaps those pics were of LG after they cleaned him up at the hospital. I suggested shooting because I needed something obvious for the ROK police to arrest LL, plus in the interrogation room LL had bloodied clothes. (When I first watched that scene I thought he was caught after murdering his brother, and the dates didn’t seem to tally… but I noticed the bloodstains are at different places, so he probably was caught for a diff crime.)
Which other spoilers were you referring to? And yes, so so poignant, like when he says “because you existed somewhere, I was less lonely for the past 25 years”! And the way he clutches at her at the calvary scene with that look of desperation, he def looks like he was drowning!
@phoenix: Yes please, we all need that happy ending #teamLGforever
@agdr03: Errr what happened with HP? Was the ending that bad?
And man, that BTS!
@kdramakat: Yes, such a rollercoaster ride! I wonder what new bombshell are they going to drop on us tmr.
@juliette: thanks for the link! My head is now swimming with all the new spoilers
As we anticipate the delayed screening of Episode 13, let’s decorate this place with the BTS OF EPISODE 12
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWinaSSlt0M
And if you would like to go straight to the infamous BEHEADING KISS, here you go
Nice one @JT7! 😀