I’m reposting @GB’s explanation here. I often repost a comment on the blog and give it its own “thread” so people can see it without scrolling and answer it separately.
New poster @melone asked:
I have one question regarding the timeline and this has been troubling me since the finale. When did the last scene in Episode 10 happen exactly? I still have a difficult time comprehending how that scene could have possibly occurred, given what we know about time travel in Episodes 15 and 16.
This is @Growing_Beautifully’s response in full. I only added pictures because I like the “visuals.” 🙂 If anybody has other theories, then just comment.
Thanks, GB!
-pm3
******************
@melone, welcome to BoD. Congrats on hitting the big plot hole. LOL. At least, I’m the one who is thinking of this as the big plot hole. @pkml3 can come and give us her take on it. It’s been fun teasing it out. Try and see if it makes sense.
Let’s look again at that scene:
1:06:00 (LG in the ceremonial uniform, appears outside TE’s home. TE sees him and runs out. We hear his footsteps as he approaches.)
LG: How have you been?
TE: (She nods) It took you a while this time.
LG: Because I had to come from far away. I realized that I never even gave you a single flower. That’s why I crossed the universe for you.
(She takes two steps forward but hesitates and steps back)
(He comes forward, takes her hand and puts the flowers into it.)
LG: But the thing is I have to go back now. (She holds on to his hand.)
TE: You have to go back?
LG: Right I also realized I never told you this. I love you. I am deeply in love with you.
(He kisses her. She holds his hand.)
(TE opens her eyes to find him gone.)
1:09:02 LG’s Voiceover: There will come a moment when it seems I have disappeared. I don’t want you to worry too much when that happens. It just means I’m walking through the frozen moments in time.
My understanding of the timelines is that the main fated events stay the same, but the ‘smaller’ events that do not upset Fate or the balance of the worlds can change, depending on what is introduced into the history. Therefore Fate could play out different timelines with different endings/alternative futures. So TE was fated to receive flowers from LG dressed in ceremonial robes, but this could happen either in the timeline before he killed LL or in an alternative timeline after he killed LL.
We know that the LG that we are following ie LG1 went back in time at least twice and came forward to 2020 at least once. In order to time travel, he would have required the whole flute.
That scene of LG from the future (for simplicity we call him LG2) coming to TE to give her the flowers can only be possible if either:
1) he entered the portal at the same time that LL did so that both halves of the flute were in No Man’s Land, or
2) he had managed to gain the whole flute or
3) this was LG from another timeline (LG2) who had found another way to time travel, using the frozen moments of time, but who could only do so for limited stretches of time. In a show like this, anything is possible!!
So the plot hole is this. In order for this scene to make sense, I choose to go with option (3) but this option has never been shown to us to be possible. I also have as my premise that alternative timelines with differences could be playing out simultaneously, which again, the show sort of allows but does not overtly mention.
Why not option (1) since LL and LG are enemies, LL is not likely to help him out by coinciding his time with LG’s in the No Man’s Land to enable LG’s time travel. Anyway, Fate had said that if they entered the NMLand at the same time, they would be transported to a time of Fate’s choosing ie 1994 just before the treason that would bring chaos to the world, and when they would save themselves.
(1) where it was not by arrangement, but by chance that LL and LG are in NMLand at the same time, is even more unlikely. LG wouldn’t have had the chance to have flowers with him, never knowing yet, at that time, that he could time travel, let alone when LL would be in NML.
If (2) then there was no reason for LG to say that he had to go as soon as he gave TE the flowers. If he had the whole flute at his disposal, he’d have suggested taking her for a long trip to other times and worlds. He also would not have looked so somber.
So plot hole or not, (3) seems the most workable. LG had discovered that he could time travel, in the frozen moments of time, but with restrictions, like maybe only for as long as the time freeze lasted. Like the show, Your From Another Star where our alien kept disappearing from time to time after he returned from across galaxies, so too LG could manage time travel for short spurts.
@pkml3… you mentioned something of this before, … good boyfriend alert here as well!!
LG thought about how he’d never even given TE flowers. He had just enough time to bring her the flowers and then return to his own time. In the same way that he rode like crazy to ROK just to make a phone call to TE, because he missed her voice, he traveled across time to when he knew she’d have been waiting for him for some time (weeks? months? maybe even years since we don’t know how long it took LG2 to figure out time travel) to give her the flowers.
As to when it happened, it would have been the time before he went back to 1994 and killed LL, assuming that LG2 did manage to kill him. The reason it’s not after is because he’d surely have told her if he’d succeeded and he’d have been cheerful. He didn’t and wasn’t.
He’d been dressed to kill LOL. It was to be a glorious moment when he ended chaos in the worlds, so he dressed for it, but he thought of TE first. He did not know how his fight against LL would turn out, and just in case he died, he did not want TE to miss out on getting flowers from her boyfriend. So he traversed time and space, crossing the universe, to give her the flowers. So @pkml3… that makes him even as LG2 or whoever, one of the most swoonworthy boyfriends ever!
Another reason I feel this is LG2 on a different timeline and not LG1: he assumed that she would recognise him and that her memories were intact. IE LG2 had not yet gone to the past to change history. This trip was in a different sequence of events from what LG1 did.
However, this timeline with LG2, in the end did not come about. When the flowers disappeared, TE feared the worst, ie that he had gone back to 1994 and died there. But it could also mean that enough change had entered LG1’s plans and life so that his timeline did not become the same as LG2’s but rather the possible alternative timeline of LG2, merged with LG1’s.
In LG1’s timeline, he did not discover any other way to time travel. He also looked for TE with flowers, but that was after he’d returned from 1994, and not before. In LG1’s timeline, he did not expect that she would remember him.
He had changed enough of history that all their previous history had been wiped out in their new timeline, but they recalled it in their memories. In the same way TE had been given a memory from the future (maybe Fate had a hand) whose disappearing flowers had galvanised her into action to kill LL in NML. By so doing, she had taken on her role as Queen beside LG. TE has the privilege of being the only one to have the memories of the past and future alternative timelines.
Anyway, I understand completely the question about the ending scene of Ep 10. It did not fit in the timeline that we were following. Hopefully this fun plot hole explanation does a little better!!!
reposting melone’s question here
@GB Thanks for the detailed response! Could it not be possible that the scene in Episode 10 happened:
1) BEFORE Lee Gon and Yeong went back to the night of the treason? Meaning Lee Gon made a pit stop to that time, as he didn’t know if he would survive or not
2) AFTER Lee Rim of 1994 was killed?
@Melone
By this question I believe you mean that you are referring to LG1, the one and only LG whom we’ve been following throughout the show.
First, we have to agree that TE who received the flowers in Episode 10 was TE of a few weeks/months in the past compared to TE in Ep 16 when she held a gun on LL. Same TE, different time. Let’s say the flowers receiving TE is on TimelineA. Flower-receiving TE was in the past, ie being able to time travel was essential.
Looking at 1)
If LG had not yet gone back to the time of the treason, he would not have had the whole flute. Without the other half of the flute, he would not have been able to time travel into the past to meet TE. He would have had to have found another way to time travel. This still sounds rather like that Big Plothole mentioned above. So, 1) not likely, except in the Big Plothole way.
Looking at 2)
Let’s push this as far as it will go …LG after killing LL and getting the flute, realises that TE has been waiting for him, and that she will likely wait for him for ages because now he has to find the right universe where she is. However, by what he did in 1994, LG has now moved into TimelineB. All the history between him and TE vanished, because TimelineA disappeared and now everyone only knows TimelineB.
So the past TE in TimelineB should not even know LG or be missing him etc. We know this because all the things they shared vanished. LG can go back in time but only on TimelineB. And there was no reason to go back because (he thought) she didn’t know him then.
In Ep 14, he killed LL and then found himself stuck in 1994, so he had to wait out 5 months in NMLand with pit stops to see TE and insert himself into her memories. In 2016 he told her that they were “passing through different points in time at the moment”. But he could only go forwards in time, not backwards. As he waited, time passed forwards in a linear way until he reached April 2020.
= = = Although I’d like to stop here… = = =
For argument’s sake, let’s say it’s possible that in the same universe, not only is LG able to go time traveling on his own timeline but also to cross timelines (my eyes are rolling actually trying to get my brain around this).
In this scenario, what we are saying is that LG leaves TimelineB and jumps to TimelineA (which no longer exists) and goes back to a time before TE was kidnapped, to give her flowers, to keep her hopes up for the long wait, to tell her he loves her, etc. (which is pretty romantic too!!!) But it’s pointless, because LG who killed LL already knows that TE of TimelineB will be kidnapped etc and that they would be together (beheading kiss and all). So really, this scenario does not make sense. And TimelineA does not exist to return to.
= = =
In that lengthly write-up above, I was saying that it was a different LG, LG2, of an alternate timeline who returned with flowers. This LG2 did not seem to have known the history that we saw from Ep 11-16, because he went pretty far back in the time of TE’s past. Why should he pick that moment when he should have known that they met again after that. He also did not think TE would have forgotten him. Therefore my conclusion that this was a different iteration of LG.
On top of that, LG1 who’d already gone through 1994 twice, would have known that the flowers would disappear. That would have been upsetting for TE. So I don’t believe it would have been LG1 who’d bring her flowers so far in the past, but a different LG in a different timeline.
However, we believe (in this blog) that all timelines were reset and all LG iterations were merged into one, once Fate was satisfied that balance had been restored.
Hope that made sense!!
I don’t want to go in there, so I’m just throwing out the idea, you do what you want with it:
This could be the first savior, LG0, seen in episode one.
This LG can’t disappear, so he goes forward in time to the future, using the in-between world, the same way LG1 will do it later. He probably has half a flute, otherwise he wouldn’t exhaust himself like this, with a sad dialogue saying that he comes from so far away.
He doesn’t go to see Tae Eul when she’s child, but at least he still brings her a bouquet of flowers.
After that, you have to deal with the merging stories of memories that are never shown, who had the other half-flute because LG0 needed 2 half flute for going into past. CF another topic with the list of possible plot-hole. In short, this explanation can stick if it also fits with other details that I forgot and that I don’t have the patience to check.
His outfit doesn’t match as well, but maybe he had his jacket over it?! Or changed his outfit later, or the dresser should be fired.
At least it respects the timeline, and it’s normal that this moment disappears after LG1 rewrites the timeline. As I suspect a kind of weird synchronization that is never stable or explained: at the moment LG1 reaches the moment LG0 had given the bouquet, the bouquet disappears, since on its side LG1 doesn’t give a bouquet.
I think the scene in Episode 10 is a reflection of what would have happened, should things have gone according to LG’s initial plan to be a one man show. Let’s refer to this series of events as Version 1 of the outcome. However, things DO NOT go according to his plan, so a new series of events happen: Version 2. It is Version 2 that actually take place in the end, to give us the meeting of LG in his ceremonial suit in Ep 16 when he finally finds TE after searching across different worlds, and gives her the flowers.
We know that LG was planning to re-enact the entire series of events that happened during his first return to the night of treason. He was still thinking that his answer to his problem of LL was ONE: he would do his ONE man show again, and there would only be 2 changes made: he would be dressed in his ceremonial suit, and he would focus on killing LL, instead of saving his 1994 self. If everyone had meekly obeyed his orders, and things went according to his plan, we would see version 1 of the plan being played out, where LG goes alone again to Cheonjongo and tackle LL on his own.
History would repeat itself, LG would then have failed (because he was alone, and the solution to his problem was not one). LL would again have obtained half the flute, and wrecked havoc, while LG would have again have ended up being stuck in 1994. LG would have had to repeat everything that happened after his first return to the night of treason (ie, travel through from 1994 to 2020 present time), except that this round, he only visits TE once (since he already inserted himself into her memories previously). This visit is the one that we see at the end of Ep 10. TE says he is from the future because this is the LG coming from the later part of 2020, visiting her in the earlier part of 2020, but he was actually travelling through 1994 all the way to 2020 to get to her. This is why he says he was walking through frozen time, since he would be biding his time in NMland again to get back to the present time faster. And he looked distraught and exhausted because this poor guy had to do another 5 month stint in NMland AGAIN! LG disappeared after kissing her because he couldn’t stay out of NMland too long, since he had to rush back to the present to repeat everything again to set things right.
We see this visit occurring, because the events in the present time were gearing up towards Version 1 of the outcome. Since the visit is placed in the timeline before the outcome, it happened as things seem to be working towards Version 1 being played out.
However, unknown to LG, everyone near him is staging a quiet rebellion of their own and choosing to disobey him, which disrupts his plan for a one man show. They make choices out of love: JY chooses to disobey LG’s orders and follows him to protect him, TE is not content to wait meekly and chooses to join in the battle so that LG would not be lonely, SJ gives in to TE’s tears because he loves her & lets her have the flute half (even though that means he loses her). Their choices change the course of events into Version 2, and these changes means that the flowers that TE received during the visit at Ep 10 disappear, since now things are no longer going to play out according to Version 1 (which was what led to the visit).
LG, though, is not the fast learner he claims to be. Even after JY insisted on following him, he tried to ditch him at the back gate so that he could do his ONE man show! JY had to politely disobey him (as only Yeong could do), and run off to Cheonjongo. However, LG does get it later as he runs towards Cheonjongo: “Beautiful equations are always simple”, then he comes to the realisation that his solution is no longer ONE (ie. that he tackles LL alone): “Tonight I am not alone. We just haven’t reached our destination yet.”
So version 2 plays out instead, because others have made choices out of love. The battle in Cheonjongo plays out differently, LG and TE finally manage to kill LL, and we get the meeting we see in Ep 16 instead. I think KES’s message in this perhaps might be to remind us that while many things may seem to be tied in to fate, our choices can determine our destinies.
@JT7 Your explanation I think makes the most sense to me, if they actually showed it on screen. I wish they did.
It couldn’t be a mere “what if”. because we know that JTE did receive those flowers and recognized the coat when she saw it in Episode 12. Someone actually visited her at that point in time in Episode 10.
I’ll watch the last few episodes again to see how it could possibly play out logically.
@JT7 I heartily agree. Instead of calling it different timelines, it is the version that that might have been.
@melone: It’s the dreaded chicken and egg problem haha! The visit in Ep 10 did take place, since events seemed to be moving towards Version 1’s outcome, and the fulfilment of Version 1 timeline would mean the visit would happen. The tricky thing is that in the linear timeline, the visit takes place BEFORE the other events of Version 1 timeline plays out. And before the Version 1 timeline could be fulfilled, the others went to “mess up” LG’s plan, thereby establishing Version 2 instead, which erases the visit. So its as if it happened, then it didn’t happen, which was why the flowers disappeared.
Thank you for all your explanations.. can’t wrap my head around this aspect. Its just that the flowers disappeared before any of the other events in Version 2/current timeline played out. Their disappearance also led to Tae-eul’s resolve to take Lee Rim to the in-between place. I just feel they should have disappeared after Version 2 played out and not before. Not sure.
@WEnchanteur I’m very glad to see you here, although you are tired of this show. 😄 I actually wrote a longer post, a very confusing post with a warning to read at one’s own discretion/risk (LOL), and it took me ages, but after sleeping over it, I feel it is better to just cut it short and say that however I think of it, and while I like your idea that LG0 did continue as himself and spent time in NMLand so that he could reach TE in 2020, I couldn’t use simple logic to make it work. I guess if LG0 existed concurrently with LG1, then I’d expect there to be a TE0 as well as TE1. The TE we watched was TE1.
I’d expect LG0 to give the flowers to the TE0 whom he knows.
IE, I’d expect that LG0 would fall in love with his TE0, unless he merged with LG1 and became LG1. But unless I jumped into a weird paradox instead of using simple logic, there was no way LG0 could be LG1.
As an indication of how confusing I was going to be and how paradoxical I was going to make it in order to force it to work. I was saying stuff like: paradox of something that is A and not A at the same time, also it included the paradox of A where it is B and A where it is C at the same time. LOL.
So, I cut it short and just leave it here. But I like your idea and how it does not upset the timeline so much. 😉
So it wasn’t just me who was confounded by that scene. I was thinking about it yesterday since it was never explained by KES. Despite the explanation, I still feel that scene is kinda out of place. Never mind. I get it. I really do.
@GB: This show has definitely given all of our brains a whole lot of mental exercise! I’ve never cracked my head so hard over a show before lol.
@Dewdrop, yes I understand your confusion. I went back to review the sequence of scenes. If we take Version 1 as LG doing his one man show, and Version 2 as LG getting help from others on the night of treason, then Version 2’s timeline already kicked in from the point in time when LG discovered (after catching LL) that having both halves of the flute would not allow him to travel directly back to the night of treason. He needed LL to open his side of the portal, and for that he needed someone’s help to go in with LL. (We see that both JY and SJ both volunteered, and LG hesitated with choosing between them. I thought it was partially because he didn’t want to involve/risk either of them.) LG chose SJ. Involving SJ perhaps marked the start of Version 2’s timeline, and things started playing out differently, hence Version 1’s timeline was erased, and the flowers disappeared.
I agree though, if they had shown the flowers disappearing after everyone started popping up to help LG, things would have been clearer, and a lot easier for people to make the link. But I think they also wanted to show the butterfly effect of choice: SJ chose to help LG instead of poisoning him/working for LL, which led to timeline 2 starting when LG involved SJ, which led to the flowers disappearing, which led to TE deciding to be the one who takes LL to the portal. Things started to snowball and helped to push Version 2’s timeline forward.
@GB: This show has definitely given all of our brains a whole lot of mental exercise! I’ve never cracked my head so hard over a show before lol.
@Dewdrop, yes I understand your confusion. I went back to review the sequence of scenes. If we take Version 1 as LG doing his one man show, and Version 2 as LG getting help from others on the night of treason, then Version 2’s timeline already kicked in from the point in time when LG discovered (after catching LL) that having both halves of the flute would not allow him to travel directly back to the night of treason. He needed LL to open his side of the portal, and for that he needed someone’s help to go in with LL. (We see that both JY and SJ both volunteered, and LG hesitated with choosing between them. I thought it was partially because he didn’t want to involve/risk either of them.) LG chose SJ. Involving SJ perhaps marked the start of Version 2’s timeline, and things started playing out differently, hence Version 1’s timeline was erased, and the flowers disappeared.
I agree though, if they had shown the flowers disappearing after everyone started turning up to help LG, things would have been clearer, and a lot easier for people to make the link. But I think they also wanted to show the butterfly effect of choice: SJ chose to help LG instead of poisoning him/working for LL, which led to timeline 2 starting when LG involved SJ, which led to the flowers disappearing, which led to TE deciding to be the one who takes LL to the portal. Things started to snowball and helped to push Version 2’s timeline forward.
huaaa @JT7 finally i understand the last scene in eps 10, yes i think your explanation more make sense, thank to you ! I hope there is another kdrama that have awe story like this
@packmule3 i think i read somewhere in your post that you will make analysis about the neck kiss, here I am to remind you…. or I read it wrong…
@packmule: I tried replying to @GB and @dewdrop but my comment is stuck and awaiting moderation. Did I use a banned word?
Sorry JT7. 😞
I don’t know what happened but all comments went to my “waiting for moderation” inbox. I was fiddling around with WordPress and I must have clicked on the wrong buttons again.
@GB @JT7 Just wanted to thank you guys for explaining your perspective! I was also very puzzled by the ending scene in Episode 10 too but I thought it was because I missed/forgot something. Your theories make a lot of sense and I can sit with it being the (I guess) only plot hole of the show. I have a feeling the production team was gearing for a Version 1 ending (which may not have been the happiest albeit realistic) but somehow succumbed to Version 2.
@GB
It doesn’t matter what other events are hidden or never told, taking place before, or in another time loop, TE0, etc….
Taken in a simple way, LG0 exists at the beginning of the drama, he saves LG1 as a child.
So LG0 can’t disappear, unless he goes to die by throwing himself off a bridge, or by taking a cushy retreat near a pond where he will sin all his life, LOL!
All along the drama, episode 1 to 13, LG1 lives the adventure of the drama.
Somewhere, hidden, often in the in-between world, LG0 goes to the future.
It is not seen once during the rest of the drama, and during this time, LG1 grows.
Maybe he did some minor actions to change the destiny of TE1 and LG1?
There, we should review the drama and try to detect that, ah ah ah!
In any case, he gives a bouquet of flowers to Tae Eul, according to my hypothesis.
My hypothesis is just the simplest solution to fill all the holes, except this dressing problem.
LG0 just does exactly what LG1 will do except for a few variations.
In the same way that LG1 goes back to the future while LG2 grows.
So LG0 can’t give flowers to the TE0 he knows, he gives them to TE1.
In the same way that LG1 changes the memories of TE2 when she is a child.
For the rest, refer to the other rules detected, the merging of memories, is it instantaneous? Probably.
In this case LG0 gains the memories of LG1 as it goes along. If LG1 is injured by a scar on the face, LG0 suddenly has a scar on the face.
I don’t like this kind of unstable procedure, but after all, if the drama is consistent with, and there’s no plot-hole with it, why not?
There is still the problem of LG0 and LG1 living simultaneously, or LG1 and LG2 living simultaneously. And at some point, Spooof, there’s only one left! How does it work exactly? It goes under the carpet, like most important other things. What’s the point of trying to do the job of a writer who can’t do her own?
To explain even the tiniest little thing, you have to be crystal clear.
You can’t just throw sentences out on the fly, everyone ends up understanding things the wrong way.
Good luck with your long post!
Another idea… Grrr, I hate this, I want to drop the drama.
But when an idea comes along, there’s nothing you can do!
The Lee Gon who offers the flower bouquet is the “Final Lee Gon”. LG2.
He owns the whole flute, and he comes from episode 16, when he opens “all the doors of the universe”.
Since he can also travel in time, and he is exhausted and discouraged, he goes to see Tae Eul at an earlier point in time.
He offers her the bouquet, then he leaves again, to continue looking for the Tae Eul that is his, the one located in the future.
I disclaim any responsibility for the delirious number of questions and potential plot-hole of this explanation. Besides, I don’t believe it myself! In particular, why the bouquet of flowers disappears. Ah ah ah!!
@Wenchanteur you never fail to make me laugh either at your disgruntlement or your creative ideas that you then declaim come with plot holes. I know what you mean by having ideas and just wanting to put them out there, nevermind if they make sense or not (sometimes).
In reply to your first post here, I wrote that long arduous piece for myself in the end, to see where the logic or lack thereof led me. I refuse however to share it because it will cause many eyes to roll and the plot holes are there and big as well!!
I know you’re trying to stop, but obviously if the ideas keep on coming, they will come. It seems that you like it or not, this show has impressed itself upon you far more than you’d like. LOL. And done so with both the negatives as well as the positives.
Read ya again!
@WEchanteur I am with you too that the last LG the time traveler went so far back into the TKEM drama/universe he played in with TE that he overshot by going into a time frame that was not supposed to be. If that makes any sense.
I see the exact same ceremonial suit with the exact same blue flowers and he was visiting all the wrong TaEuls in the different Universes. So he could have found TaEul but at the wrong time it was too early still and TE has no memory of the future she had with him yet. So he looked really sad and worn out( now I know why) but he still wanted to give the flowers to her and say he really loves her and then he had to leave to carry on searching for his current TaEul.
The blue flowers were the first to disappear I think in an earlier episode way before the other items disappeared in episode 16. And I can’t explain further ‘cos I am lost in a time loop too!
@GB I see you almost went here 😅
I can’t wrap my mind around it no more as it is too convoluted to think any more. I need @packmule3 visuals to help haha ‘cos it’s easier to see in pictures!
I just follow the glorious suit and it show up most in his time travelling and no where else!
@GB,
Me too, I had started to write a longer commentary.
Then I asked myself…
“Hey, what the hell are you doing?”
I erased everything and just posted the intro.
😀
Even if you don’t like drama, if you’re involved in it, it’s always fun to be creative. The parodics memes I produced are a reward in itself, disconnected from the drama.
But I should have had a better sense of proportion, and used my time a bit more to continue my photo-drama on W s2, my most important project. I’m not looking for excuses, I’m scared by the amount of work it requires, and I’m pushing back the deadline.
@Carolstar,
Unanswered questions…
I can’t think about it any longer. The drama fades from my memory very quickly. The fragmentation, the excess of everything, the incomprehensible scenes, the lack of information, the impossibility of immersing oneself or getting emotionally involved. The general feeling of painfulness. All this accelerates the loss of memories.
Any random other drama look great now. 😀
hi! yes im the one who requested for a tae-eul character analysis. 😂 only if you have the time and energy of course! here’s some cookies for you!! 🍪🍪🍪🍪
Ooh I got it JT7! Thanks!
Whoa thats a really interesting idea WEnchanteur
Just a note without (again) getting into the paradox that will kill me.
The reason I feel that LG with the blue flowers in Ep 10 is not the same LG in Ep 16 is because of what he knew, or rather, did not know.
He had approached TE expecting her to know and recognise him. He started by saying ‘How are you … and I realised I didn’t give you flowers’… which sounds like he had targeted that time to go back in history to see her. But this makes little sense if he had been Ep 16 LG. There was the whole period of time they had become closer after this scene, and that would have been the time he would have chosen (which he did in Ep 16) to find TE to give her flowers.
If he had been the Ep 16 LG, even if he had made a mistake, he’d need to check if this was the right TE or not. But he didn’t, and he pressed the flowers into her hands. In the case of Tae Ra, he wouldn’t give her the flowers although she pressured him, but this LG meant to give the TE of Ep 10 those flowers, no matter what.
Knowing what he did of what was going to befall TE, he would have given her warning of some kind. No matter how it would have changed history, if he could or had chosen to return to this time from Ep 16 timeline, he’d have wanted to save TE from going through the trauma of being kidnappped.
For these reasons, this was (Ep 10) LG2 on a different timeline and only when the characters chose their own destinies, instead of letting them play out without interference, did the timelines merge, so that this version (as @JT7 rightly puts it) of LG merged with LG1. With the shift in events that would make the merging of the timelines certain, the flowers disappeared.
Later, with the change in the 1994 history by LG1, all the things that united LG with TE in the original timeline disappeared.
@GB: Finally managed to find a little time to sit down and read all the stuff that you and @wenchanteur wrote! I liked how both of you proposed many different ideas and worked systematically through them to see which made the most sense. I took LG’s mention of “frozen moments in time” in the Ep 10 visit to mean he was travelling with only half the flute, because using half the flute means the time axis is not activated, and time would be frozen.
Side note: I remember vaguely that you mentioned in another thread about Fate having a hand in the things happening to SJ and TE, but not really interfering with LG’s life? Was that you? I tried looking through the posts and I can’t seem to find it now, so I thought I’d just reply you here. Your comment was catnip to me, and it was at the back of my mind when I happened to chance across this post in my IG explore page: https://www.instagram.com/p/B_GnpmPhWxm/
The actor who plays the ROK bully, as well as the navy officer, was also in the scene at the rowing competition. Fate as the navy officer, was actually sitting just behind LG, and rowing with him on his team! I was just wondering, if the inclusion of the navy officer might have been to show the 3 faces of fate, as a nod to the 3 Fates in greek mythology. Perhaps each Fate is “attached” to follow/help/interfere in the lives of one character in the love triangle: LG has the adult navy officer, SJ, the teenage bully, TE, the yoyo girl. In Greek mythology, the fates each have a role, Clotho to spin the thread, Lachesis to measure, Atropos to cut the thread. Yoyo girl is Clotho, she tells Luna that she hooked up the red string to the yoyo herself, and the teenage bully is Atropos, because he contemplates if he should cut the thread.
Ah thanks @JT7! yes, that was me. I know either you or someone mentioned that Fate was also rowing behind LG but I forgot all about it. Good that LG was not ignored entirely!!! And yes, adult Fate was at the Funeral, but I really don’t know what role that was supposed to play in helping LG. Fate there was more an observer than a doer.
LOL. yes, I’d love for each face of Fate to have more meaning than that they just happened to be there. The 3 Fates sounds apt too. Maybe we can stretch it to say that Teenage Bully Fate was was measuring the worth and strength of SJ and whether he had the endurance to be with TE in accordance to Fate’s plan. LOL.
Most remiss of Show to not give us a clear indication of how Fate was being utilised in the show and what Fate was being busy about. We’d have had so much more to ‘Wow!’ over and give more praise to KES for. *More sighs*.
@JT7 Good point about traveling the frozen moments meaning using only half the flute. That again points out pretty clearly that the LG2 version was another LG ie from another timeline. He could not time travel like the Ep 16 LG. He was the lower version of time-travelling LG that had to be upgraded LOLOL!
@GB,
I can answer at least to one of the simple questions you have.
“What fate was busy about.”
He was busy about playing yo-yo. 🙂
@GB I finally see the light! I reread your post and @JT7 really slowly to think it through and it finally falls into place.Thank you both of you.
Yes if only they showed LG wearing that suit before he went off to do battle in Version one that would have cleared the air.
All I do know is that LG is ever loyal and faithful to his love TE. He literally went to the ends of the world for her two times over! Definitely deserving Best Boyfriend ever in dramaland in my eyes.
@WEchanteur I heard you, we will now rest and recover for the next drama 😆
I found out about the flowers @GB. I googled it like you said to. And I found a matching flower species. It was the simplest solution and right in front of our eyes too.
Forget me not flowers!
It symbolizes true love. Its given with the hope the recipient will not forget the giver. It also symbolises faithful love and memories!!😅😅
Quoted from symbolism wiki
I couldn’t paste anything here so you will have to google the image of the flower.
Sorry for the late reply it’s been a crazy weekend.
@Wenchanteur: LOL!!! You are too funny! Yoyo girl was also busy reading books outside Eosu, and telling villains to buzz off so that she can finish reading King Arthur haha.
@GB: Yup, he couldn’t time travel, since he had only half a flute. And lol no wonder he was crying, he so needed the upgrade haha! Initially I was considering @Melone’s first option, which was that he made a visit before he did his second return to to the night of treason. I thought it couldn’t have been after LL was killed, since LG looked so sad, and also, he didn’t have blood on his face. However, like you mentioned, LG didn’t have the whole flute so he couldn’t have gone back to visit TE. Also, even if he managed to do a pit stop, it didn’t seem like it would be something he would do. The whole way he planned the second return felt like he was running a science experiment: Repeat all the procedures while keeping all factors constant, save for one variable, which was to aim to kill LL instead of saving himself (like you said, he dressed to kill!). I think he wouldn’t have risked adding another variable into his experiment by making a pit stop to TE. Irony is that everyone else around him messed up all the other variables, but thankfully the experiment was a success because of that.
Oh, whoever spotted navy guy rowing earlier had sharp eyes, it wasn’t me, since I didn’t realize it until I saw the IG post today! Poor SJ, he really drew the short stick. LG had a Fate that helped him win the rowing competition, TE had a Fate that helped her escape LL, while SJ had a Fate that was constantly beating him up! Well, at least he gets to be saved from his accident, and his double gets to be with Luna.
And yes, it really was a pity that they were not more explicit about the symbolism. So much of this would have flown over everyone’s heads, which is such a waste of how deep the script actually tried to go. I recently watched a BTS that showed them blowing ginkgo leaves all over during the scene when LG rides down the ginkgo avenue, and was reminded again of how all those ginkgo scenes just weren’t linked in some meaningful way! SIGH
@carolstar, @Dewdrop, @dreamer, @Ceuu, glad it seems clearer now!
@carolstar: Aw that’s lovely! Even more so because LG brought them to TE in Ep 16, while not knowing if she would still remember him! Hope you get some respite after the crazy weekend.
@JT7
LOL… here’s where we have to put it down to Fate the real but hidden main star of this show 😂 (I believe, according to KES).
Here’s where I beat myself up. I noticed how handsome he was but I didn’t recognise him!!! I noticed him when the camera put him in sharp focus in the church and I noticed him in the boat BUT I didn’t think that it was the SAME guy!!!! LOLOL. So fed up. Or… should I say that I take issue with show for making it NOT obvious enough for unobservant ahjummas, who got distracted by the prettiness. 🤣
@GB: You aren’t alone in that, because I too didn’t realize he was the same guy, he looked quite different in the rowing scenes and I think he had shades on part of the time.! And yes, they just didn’t make it obvious enough, too many hunks in that scene lol.
Regarding Fate measuring the worth of SJ: I remember someone mentioned that SJ had perseverance. Was it @FanofTKEM? I realize that if SJ was to be measured up, he would have fulfilled the 5 tenets of Taekwondo that TE was lecturing about, he certainly had integrity, perseverance and that indomitable spirit. Poor guy never gave up, and he always chose truth and goodness, even if it meant his mum got arrested. It would have been easier for him to just poison LG, and conveniently get rid of his rival in love, but he chose not to. I’m glad he got his happy ending, he certainly deserved it!
Just discovered something interesting: SJ was named after a Korean novelist, Kang Shin Jae. From wikipedia: “She published romantic stories like “The Tribulation of Mr. Pyo” (표 선생 수난기) and “Young Zelkova Tree” (젊은 느티나무), which depict illicit love stories that were very extreme at that time. Most of her novels discuss breaking social morals and conventions and the principle subject matter was the eternal triangle and adultery.”
Just going by his name, seems like KES determined this guy was fated to be part of a love triangle, heh! Also, I discovered that the Zelkova tree is another ancient tree like the ginkgo. From wikipedia again: “According to data investigated by Korea Forest Service in 1989, the largest number of trees over 500 years old were specimens of Zelkova serrata, among which more than ten have been registered as Natural Monuments of Korea”. More trees hahaha
Hi @JT7,
Ahhh! what a consolation LOL. Thanks!
SJ was the catnip case for me. The one who had been a child when he’d faced a monumental trauma, and still was resilient enough to rise from it, a great person. The theme of kids suffering trauma and being healed, almost always holds my interest.
His mum had faulty reasoning, but she thought she was choosing the best for him. The only part I wish could have been different is if he could have forgiven his mum, although he should still return to ROK. Fortunately the time reset righted everything, so SJ remained as Hyeon Min and could be full of integrity, perseverance, etc as a policeman in KOC. There he gets to meet Luna as well. Seems that’s what was destined for him wherever he ended up… either he’d be with Luna or with TE, and in the police force.
Woah, I salute you! You are still researching names and looking up trees!!! That’s what I call thorough. 👍 🤩 😎
That is interesting, especially since she chose the name deliberately. KES seems to have set great store by the character of SJ. I wonder if she did the same for Lee Gon or Tae Eul? SJ was also given a lot of screen time, not all of which seems warranted. I believe we were meant to feel a lot more for him and realise the extent of the imbalance created by LL through one person’s horrific experience of being plucked from 1 world and placed in another, without warning or explanation. This would have made it clear to us why Fate wanted to step in to right the imbalance.
Once again, this would have made greater impact instead of being seen by viewers as a waste of time, if only Show had reduced the mysteriousness and give us more information from earlier on. 🙄 🤔 😉
I just finished reading all your entries on King. I feel so much better! When it came out, I binged ’til episode 10 and then had to stop because suddenly felt so anxious about how it was going to end. Real anxiety!!! I paused it for about 6 months! I think I fell in love with LG and didn’t want to see him meet a tragic end… I picked it up again between True Beauty episodes and encountered my favorite scene in the whole drama that redeemed both Kim Go Eun and LMH’s acting skills! In episode 15, when she was in the hospital after getting stabbed by Luna and the nurse was scolding her because she was out and about and she said she was outside because she was waiting for someone and he was suddenly there… And he ran to her and even if we couldn’t hear anything, just looking at her face I could perceive that it was like she’d been holding her breath the entire time he was gone and as he embraced her she could finally breathe again… BEAUTIFUL! His face here, how it crumpled in a mixture of relief and brokenness after he was finally reunited with her after going through god knows what for god knows how long.. His despair at having caused her so much pain, I totally felt the authenticity of that! They were both amazing in this scene. This scene alone destroys all the hater comments about her inability to be effective as the FL in this drama. Sigh. I had mixed feelings about how it ended, being neither satisfied nor dissatisfied but feel so much better about it now after reading all of this. Thank you!!