The thread is now open for discussion, analyses, rants and raves.
Let’s enjoy the show.
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I’m very impressed with you all for the way you’ve been analyzing this drama that I’m taking a back seat to just watch you. To me, discussing a drama it’s not just about “liking” or “disliking” it. You must also be able to tell others WHY you feel that way about it.
And there’s a prescribed method of doing it. There are FOUR steps.
First, you interpret what the writer and the director are attempting to achieve. What’s their message? What’s the whole point?
This is why, in my “First Impressions,” I always point out the possible themes to look for in the drama. They’re my “guide” when I watch the drama. I rarely talk about actors’ “chemistry” because to me, chemistry is debatable and subjective. But the writer’s message? Ah! That’s the crux of the kdrama.
Second,, you judge whether the writer and director achieved their goals. This is why I like breaking down the dialogues and talk about the cinematography. I see that @Growing_Beautifully, @nrllee, @welmaris, @John_L and the others like to quote and discuss the dialogues.
Since you derive the message of the writer chiefly from the dialogues, it’s necessary to scrutinize the script. And since cinematography is the way the director chooses to enhance the writer’s message, then we also have to scrutinize blocking, camera angles, lighting, color palettes and all the 1001 details about cinematography.
Third, you determine whether the show is worth your time and effort.
It’s easy to tell whether I like the show or not by the number of posts I’ve written about it. But I see that, with other posters have a unique and special way of showing their interest. With @snowflower, for instance, it’s her musical compositions. You can tell that she’s REALLY into the show when she’s inspired to compose. 🙂
With @Growing_Beautifully, it’s her research. She likes the show when she shares with us her meticulous research about certain drama points and writes about them. You can tell that she’s invested herself in the show.
Now, if these three requirements for critical analysis, namely, interpreting the message, judging whether the message was conveyed, and determining if the endeavor was all worth it, seem familiar to some of you, it’s because I’ve adapted it from Goethe’s essay on criticism.
It’s one of the secrets of this blog. lol. I don’t go around telling readers that we’re doing “a Goethe” in our kdrama analysis because for many viewers, Johann Wolfgang von Goethe is a nobody. He’s an irrelevant guy.
This was Goethe.
source: mahler foundation org
But yes, if you’ve been following this blog, then you’ve been unwittingly exposed to Goethe’s style of criticism all this time. 🙂
However, I’ve added a bit of a twist to Goethe BECAUSE we’re sassy bitches and we must have the last word. The FOURTH and final step in our discussion of the drama is this: value-judgement. I want us all to relate the spectacle we’ve watched to our daily lives. To me, critical thinking goes hand-in-hand with critical application. How does the writer’s message affect us? Do we consider it a fair perspective on life? Are the show’s underlying theme and values true? Are the values expressed in the show something we would accept whole-heartedly or with limitations, or reject outright?
I know it can all sound a bit “judgy” and nowadays, there’s a trend NOT to be “judgy” and offend people’s feelings — to the detriment of critical analysis. However, in this blog, I want us to be comfortable enough to express a fair and rational assessment.
Especially now, in the final weeks of this kdrama, after going through these last weeks of analyses, we can be “judgy” (or discrimating, as I would say it) and arrive at our conclusion. It’s okay for you to be “judgy” because I know you’re NOT going to give me a knee-jerk reaction or half-baked idea but a well-thought out explanation of why you like or dislike the show.
Pyscho Judgy but it’s okay.
Thank you, @packmule3.
My pleasure. 🙂
Ah, it was a nice episode. I watched it raw, therefore I need to re-watch, however from what I gathered, I’m feeling pleased. Love that the characters are growing and changing and trying to be better. I’d still prefer MY to get therapy, but as long as she does not get a personality transplant but still can be reasonable and does keep working at being more under control, there’s hope.
Congrats to all who predicted that the butterfly was a motif on the killer (assuming that was really the killer). And yes, the killer’s female, therefore the great fly in the ointment … if that was MY’s mum, how will GT be able to get together with MY properly? So we hope that either that’s not MY’s mum or that she’s not the killer, or both.
Maaaaa, let me freak out a little bit about that kissing scene! I really wished someone’s beside me so I could share this excitement. For now I only have my pillows to punch and shake to my heart’s content 😂.
This is one great episode 😍. I love how the characters were able to reconcile with each other. Aaaahh, really feeling that I’m on cloud 9. From Gangtae sharing to Moonyoung how he and his brother are inseparable therefore MY just needs to be on their side with MY agreeing to at least try, to Sangtae finally being able to act like the older brother that he’s supposed to be and also for accepting Moonyoung as part of his family. We also have the bonus of Sang-in and Juri finally being on a date together. Then JaeSu having to start realizing and accepting that there is MY in the brothers’ lives and how MY really affected GY by a lot, therefore having more space than JS in GT’s heart. It’s just a little bit sad tho when JS is placed 3rd, then realized oh JS at least you’re higher than JR haha 😂.
Well we are all aware by now that with happy moments come difficult and trying situations in this drama. We saw this coming that the murder and death will be tackled and how these would affect the characters’ lives. Ooh also with KDH on the brink of death. Whatever MY says about his father, he’s still her one and only family by blood. He’s still her father you know. And there’s POK! She’s the one that was rushed in the hospital right? I was not totally sure with this so..
Ah let me also give a spotlight to Seungjae and how she was basically a stalker to a kpop group lol. Saying that it’s normal for a fan to also celebrate the birthday of the family of your idol to that extent! No no no, that’s outright creepy! Yeah we can greet them but giving gifts is extreme already, at least for me haha.
Now I’m ready to face the upcoming wave of sorrow head on! 🙂✊🏼
@LeeDale9198 – Yes, that was the kiss I was looking for!! But I understand know everyone’s point of view regarding the 1st kiss (short & sweet). WOW, did you guys catch MY saying she held back?
Ok-Ran and MY’s birthday encounter can’t be all that happened. I’m just getting this vibe that Ok-Ran didn’t just leave the Cursed Castle. I’m going on a limb here, but what if MY locked her away in that room (or even killed her)? The other thing I found suspicious is why Haeng-Ja knows that Ok-Ran won’t be coming back to the hospital, therefore, had GT clear out her things. I imagine they wouldn’t allow a patient back if they attacked an employee, but it seems like there is more there.
I am just liking this Sang-In more and more. I guess I appreciate him trying to help MY with some sage advice (don’t rank people, her father is her only family [maybe?]).
Episode 11, was a little too perfectly happy. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoyed how everything is coming together. It’s too early in the game to clear the finish line so I can’t wait for what’s in-store for 12.
I was smiling while crying happy tears through the whole episode.
I noticed that pivotal moments in the story occur at the end of every 4th episode. The first 4 episodes showed the initial meeting of GT and MY and the growing tension between them. The ending of Episode 4 (Lighthouse scene) was the first breakthrough in their relationship.
The following episodes (5-8) were mostly about GT coming to terms with his attraction to MY and MY herself opening up and inviting the brothers in her home and in her life. The ending of Episode 8 showed GT willing to try something new.
Episodes 9, 10, and 11 so far have been focusing on GT finding and expressing his true self. MY also shows signs of growth. I suspect that tomorrow’s episode will have a breakthrough ending which will set the stage for the final 4 episodes.
All of our leads need to face their nightmares head on. MY needs to be finally free of her mother’s shadow and also reconcile with her father.ST needs to face his fear of butterflies and accept his role as an adult and guardian. And GT needs to become his own self, apart from being a caretaker of his brother.
So far the writer has done a great job of setting the stage for all these develpments. I hope the ending does the story justice.
I think that the new story MY will end up writing is the story we hear at the beginning of Episode 1. In the first episode, we never heard how that story ended. Please, writernim, let the ending be good and meaningful like everything that came before it.
@pm3, to my everlasting shame, I am not familiar with Goethe’s essay on criticism, but I admit to having read the first part of Faust. But your paraphrase of the 3 analytical stages is so spot on about what everyone here is doing.
As for the 4th stage: To me, the show is about the human resilience and capacity of healing and growth, despite painful and traumatic experiences. I admit that I was not too thrilled with the initial description of the show. I was not too happy about a show set in a mental institution. My assumptions and prejudices were based on other shows and movies with a similar setting, and the idea of watching 16 + hours of One Flew Over a Cuckoo’s Nest did not sound very appealing. (Cuckoo’s Nest is one of the greatest movies ever made, but it is not something I would want to rewatch over and over.)
But when I watched the trailer, I liked that the approach was whimsical and poetic rather than clinical, and that made me curious about the first episode.
Once I finished the first episode, I knew there was no going back!
How can I find an application of the show’s message in my daily life? I thought about being more patient and observant, especially to people who annoy me. What makes them that way? What are they struggling with?
Thank you, show, for treating a serious topic in such a gentle yet thought-provoking manner.
Heh @pkml3, Thanks for this space in which to do our Goethe style analyses. 😅 😆
LOL. At first I read that you were taking a backseat 😌 to just watch the show but I re-read and see that you’re watching us. 🧐 🧐 LOL I hope you’re being sufficiently entertained by us, 🤪 even if you’re no longer watching this show. I did say before that I imagined you reading and rolling 🙄 your eyes and resisting 🙃 a gut reaction to rebut 😣 the random speculations tossed about here. So thanks also for your forbearance LOL.
It has certainly been fun hanging out with a community who’s trying to go beyond the surface to discover the full message or messages of the creators. While I feel the latter have mostly succeeded and kept to what they wanted to say, I reserve judgement on which of the messages I can agree with wholeheartedly.
So far I really like the balanced view of people with disorders and mental illness. They are in fact mostly painted in positive light, and so too are their caregivers. This is a welcome change from the usual more gritty portrayal of societal rejection and persecution of both the ill/victims and their families, or societal turning of a blind eye with neglect. I hope this show goes in some way to remove the stigma attached to mental illness and to get us to take stock of how ‘normal’ it is to be crazy. 😵 🥴 😉
Howdy Queen B! Nice to see you busy in the blog. 😊Thanks for letting us in on your Goethe’s secret. I learned two things today. ☺️
I’ve watched episode 11 and I’m on the same boat with @Snow Flower, I was teary eyed while watching the whole episode. It was a good episode with the healing starting and the accepting and loving of oneself especially for GT.
I was especially touched when the two brothers had lunch and ST even gave GT an allowance. 😭
I am curious too as to why Haeng-ja told the staff to clear POR’s bed straight away and that she’s not coming back. That was weird.
How cute when Ju-ri’s Mom applied lipstick on her because she’s going on a date with Sang-in. Love her! 😁 Their date was good, getting to know each other.
Heh! GT acknowledging that he was lovesick to MY. 😆 What a hot kiss! 🥰
I’m scared when the angst will finally come. 😬
Can I say that I really love the song that starts “little by little” and then it’s just a piano accompaniment? It gets me every time they play it as background music. When GT and MY lay in bed together. It’s just very sweet and makes me think of rainbows and 2 people falling in love just ever so slowly but surely 😍🙂. Okay back to Ep11…
PS yes that kiss was hot… 😳. These 2 with their push and pull…gah…
Me too @nrllee! I just love that song! Here it is. I finally saw the proper version. Just released! ☺️
https://youtu.be/mOOTlfp-peE
Here’s the lyrics. So fitting for GT and MY.
Little By Little by Cheeze.
Little by little
I can see you step by step
Even if you don’t say anything
I feel like I can hear you
I’m looking for a place to rest
I’m back after a long time
I’m really grateful because it’s you
Oh oh ohhh
Oh oh ohhh
Whatever you may look like, like this,
you’re making me excited
Every little expression of yours
makes my heart flutter
Everyday every night
I’m hoping my prayers will be granted
May we be together as we are
Can you hear this sound?
It reminds me when I close my eyes
Like the whispers of the day
And the stories that I couldn’t tell you
Where did you come from?
I didn’t know where to go
Until my heart found you
Oh oh ohhh
Oh oh ohhh
Whatever you may look like, like this,
you’re making me excited
Every little expression of yours
makes my heart flutter
Everyday every night
I’m hoping my prayers will be granted
May we be together as we are
In the world outside my door,
I wonder what could there be
Even the nights that I cried alone
I hope that I will all forget them
I’m wishing for a dream
Even if it’s just for a moment,
If it’s you and only you,
Whatever you may look like, like this,
you’re making me smile
Just in case that someday,
If we ever get away for a moment from each other,
Your smile, your pain
I’ll remember them all
I’m really grateful because it’s you
I met you at the end of my dark times
Thank you so much for being you
Thank you. @agdr03 for those lyrics. I agree with you and @nrllee that it fits.
I think that the 3 leads are each learning to share and be honest without trying to manipulate, bribe or lie.
Here are 3 things I found curious in episode 11:
ST using sarcasm “…came to the pizzeria to buy potatoes. Why would you ask something so obvious?”
At about 8.13, the camera focussed on a small blue square of paper stuck under the back corner of ST’s easel.
We didn’t see MY show much surprise when told by GT about his mother’s murder. Perhaps because it must have been big news back then, right? Murdered mother and runaway sons?
I found the school uniform dream sequence both touching and sad. GT is still dreaming impossible dreams? ST is not disabled and we don’t know where MY ended up when her family fell apart if there were no adults to protect her, as Sang-in says. Perhaps boarding school?
I love how this director doesn’t use many tropes and slow-motion shots. To me it makes this drama feel fresh. Any surreal techniques stay in dreams and fantasies as far as I can recall.
@Fern, I noticed that blue paper too. I wonder what it is.
I thought the conversation between GT and Hospital Director was funny. 😄
How about that smile that finally made GT more handsome? ☺️
Whilst I can see how the 3 of them can function as a family unit and just ride off into the sunset into their camper van, I cannot help but feel they still need the support network of JuRi, her mom and JaeSu (maybe – although I feel like he needs them more than they need him? 🤔) to really function well in reality. ST and MY are both volatile and whilst they show signs of getting along, it’s a work in progress – a painfully slow one at that. So camper van is fine for a short holiday stint but they need the security and grounding of JuRi and her mom. They offer blessed respite when it all gets too crazy, especially for GT. The head nurse is an enigma. I don’t know whether to trust her or not. She seems a bit unhinged herself? But I trust Director O (Oz). So if he thinks she’s fine to be head nurse then she must be okay? 🤔 The folk at the hospital come across like Munchkins for some reason 😂. I think that’s something the writer seems to want to get across. That people who have mental issues aren’t all “dangerous” and to be locked up and avoided at all costs. They just have a different viewpoint about how the world looks like? Still there is a part of me that finds MY’s propensity to just pick something up to stab someone highly disturbing…she is showing some control of her urges but…she’s still someone I would never turn my back to in real life. 😬. I feel like OkRan is the lady in the basement in the last bit of the Ep…she’s taken on the role of her life…she’s playing MY’s mother for real.
Thanks @agdr03 for that YouTube link. It’s just a beautiful song and it suits them so well.
@agdr03, I agree about that conversation being funny. The beginning, especially. I think that GT, knowing that Dir Oh is good at picking up body language from patients, was panicking that Dir Oh had overestimated the evening. I loved the segue’ when GT said something about, maybe we’ll be okay now. Dir Oh, sort of did a double-take and then they started the butterfly discussion. And yes, the patient noticed the difference, too, in GT’s smile. 😊
I like that the director is so efficient. I feel like next to nothing is wasted in this drama.
@nrllee, gosh, I sure hope that you are wrong about Ok-Ran being in the basement. Dir Oh wondered what else besides the birthday made Ok-Ran decide to visit MY. Ok-Ran emphasised that like MY, she didn’t like people touching her things. Had MY touched something that belonged to Ok-Ran? I hope she doesn’t have some claim on GT.
Regarding your ideas on keeping Ju-ri, Jae-su and their cohorts in the picture, I was thought about Dooly. His concept, which implies an Adult could be a guardian or caregiver to non-family members, could spill over onto them. ST had told both Jae-su and MY that they were strangers not family, but he is becoming more willing to accept MY. Maybe both he, GT and MY, as they are working hard to become ‘adult’ will be more willing to have those not on the family register be close. I felt relieved that there seems to be a door opening for Jae-su, who increasingly seemed to be the fitting the ‘loneliest person’ description. I really feel that GT uses Jae-su, although GT may not realise it.
I thought Ju-ri’s proposal that her mom adopt GT was spot on – her mom already was half-way there in ep. 10 with the ‘be my son in your next life’ comment. This also would fit in with your idea of the support network of non-family members.
Last, but on a tangent, how creepy was the butterfly shadow on GT and MY’s sleeping forms? 😨
Thanks so much @agdr03 for the song link and the lyrics. Yes I like that song too, and all the whimsical ones. You got me falling into a rabbit hole of listening to the OSTs… one song after another.
@agdr03 I loved how the show follows up on GT’s smile. So the Joker/Chucky scary smile (the smile of one grimacing while smiling?) has been replaced by a genuine, lighthearted smile. I believe it was such a big change that everyone noticed it. Not only Dir Oh, and the Shaman patient, and Jae Su, but also Ju Ri who paused when he came to the counter and said ‘Hi!’ I think it was because she’d never seen that smile on him. Best of all was that ST noticed it. Even in his sleep, GT had a smile and looked happy and ST, bless his hyungi soul, understood what that meant and it galvanised him to become the adult.
How I loved that meal that the brothers had together, with Hyung vacillating between being big brother and mother towards GT. I was so touched.
@Fern @agdr03
I paused the episode when camera focused on the blue paper… I had to change the colour contrast on my screen but it looked like a blue envelope. I’m guessing that POR sneakily left it there for MY to discover later. It probably has something horrid written in it that will threaten, scare or upset MY.
I feel that MY has met her match (or one even worse than herself) in POR. Her name chart said she was in hospital for Depression, but she is similar to a psychopath as well. She was just as good at being unfeeling and manipulative as MY. She’s worse in that she goes out to provoke and make things happen, however as far as we can tell, she hasn’t attempted murder yet.
@Fern @nrllee
I wanted to think that the woman wandering around the basement is POR, but her mouth (which is mostly all we see of her face), looks like the mouth of MY’s mum as shown in the painting. So I’ve veering towards thinking that the mum may have returned.
The 3 wishes of GT and the dream sequence struck me with pathos. GT wanted such ordinary things of normal life. They were just dreams to him until he finally had the courage to push back and fight with ST, and go off on his own for the trip. His wishes tell us that he never had a chance to go to a proper school after age 12. I wonder how he managed to get any education and a job! We see also his dearest wish, ie to have a normal older brother. How amazing it was to see ST as a working adult, supporting GT’s interest in MY and applauding him when she remembered him… even if it was just a dream. (I applaud Oh Jung Se yet again.)
This together with the part where MY took care of GT when he had a fever. He loved being the one to be cared for, for a change. I feel so much for the poor kid that he was, who had to be the grown up, when he was really a child.
I worry now about what will happen to ST when the butterfly threat emerges. Once again, the ones close to him are targeted. The butterfly shadow falls on MY and GT and not on ST. Just like how when he was a teen, the killer did not harm him. He’ll go berserk at the sight of that butterfly, the exact same one on the killer’s clothes, unless he can get over it in time with Dir Oh’s help.
THEORY: The killer is shown to be a woman who goes up to ST and strokes his head. Could this be the reason why anyone touching his hair at the back of his head causes him to have an episode? It was the hand of someone who had just killed his mother… the killer was using that same hand which committed murder to stroke his head. What horror for a sensitive child!!
Not sure if anyone feels the same but the head nurse is starting to be suspicious.. I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s orchestrating everything and instigated park ok ran all while pretending to be good…
@Khhm I wonder if she has a character description because she really does act of but at the same time there’s not been enough clues to her being worse than she looks.
Episode or Chapter 11
Theme of Strangers/Family and a Number Game
I really like that this episode’s story is told for a change by GT and that it’s a happy story, as befits his happier frame of mind. It was not a story about discrimination so much as a story about what made people family. The Ugly Duckling as retold by GT tells us that when the adult (head) of the family accepts and loves all the kids, regardless of how different they are, they will not be lonely. They will therefore not run away but remain with the family. This is what makes even strangers, members of the family.
We see that in Jae Su’s case, although he stuck to the brothers, the head of the family (ST) had not accepted him as a family member. Therefore JS (poor chap) was still considered a stranger. By contrast, Ju Ri’s mother is able to accept all the boarders, and even MY, so that under her roof, all the disparate individuals had the possibility of becoming her family.
Linked to this, another thing that struck me was the frequent use of numbers or counting. In the previous episodes, the question had been ‘Who do you like more?’. In this episode, the question has changed to ‘Where am I ranked in your esteem?’ MY wanted to be first with GT, but settled for second after ST. Jae Su managed to make it to third place. LOL.
Suddenly we have several instances of characters counting to three: sometimes as a threat, or as a means to calm down, or even as a means to gain control over a situation. It is also a ‘tool’ used with children to get them to cooperate. ST wanted GT to count to 3 before they fought, but GT refused and said that ST should do it. The one who got the other to count, was the adult. I noted that MY was willing to obey GT in practically everything, even in doing the count when he was not present. That’s how much trust he had engendered in her, who had been a law unto herself.
MY uses the count with 1) POR supposedly to not act without thinking, but it sounded more like a warning. 2) GT got her to use it again with him, which was a successful calming technique since her anger decreased. When MY applauded herself for holding herself back, she might have meant 1 or 2 or 3 occasions. 1) and 2) are mentioned above. Because she did not hurt POR and because she calmed down with GT, she got to receive one of the hottest kisses in kdramaland LOL. 3) might have been when she held back from going all out with the passionate kiss.
When she first congratulated herself on holding back, the scene cuts to the kiss, however I felt that she was thinking not of 3) but more of 2) which lead to the kiss and made it possible.
The other number that cropped up more than once is 20. GT tells MY that ST has had the fear of butterflies for around 20 years. Nurse Park mentions that Ko Dae Hwan had the brain tumour/dementia for almost 20 years. We know that 20 years previously GT’s mum had been killed, ST was traumatised, MY’s mum had disappeared, and the brothers had started their runaway life. In a previous episode, MY says that it had been 20 years since she transferred to a different school from Ju Ri. So a great deal hinges on the sad events 20 years earlier, which is what (unfortunately) links all the main characters.
If The Ugly Duckling could give us the clue that MY is the one who is adopted, there might be one less hurdle in the GT-MY relationship, should her mother really have been the murderer of GT’s mum.
As a funny aside, did we all notice that as ST tried to get away from MY’s insistence that he return to her, he grabbed the opportunity to follow the line of passing pre-schoolers as the tallest, biggest Duckling waddling behind the teacher, as they all quacked their questions at him, and he quacked back? LOL. So my guess that ST is the Ugly Duckling is on the mark, but only partially for the reasons that I mentioned. (https://bitchesoverdramas.com/2020/07/10/psycho-but-its-okay-fairy-tales-and-other-stories/) But I am glad to see that his decision to embrace his perception of what an adult should be, did kick in. And he made a very, ‘motherly’ and elegant swan. 🙂
@Khhm @Being Written
About Head Nurse Park – unfortunately there was no character summary in the lot that @nrllee found. I too felt a little uneasy about her, but I can’t put my finger on why. I felt that over things like the patients running a little wild, she was too laissez-faire maybe. She did not really like MY and did not help MY the time she was being strangled. Other than that, I cannot recall if she appeared to have engineered anything untoward.
She had been investigating POR and had taken the book The Murder of the Witch of the West away from POR to look at in the staff office, but POR had barged in and snatched back her book. She might have been a bit of a busy-body in making friends with ST and in questioning GT about how he ended up coming in at the same time as patient Jeong Tae.
Seeing at the end of Ep 9, that ST was about to have a meltdown, she ran off to bring Dir Oh. So she was ready to help. She did also do the right thing in getting Dooly’s Oma for ST to draw him out and get him in a good mood to leave the hospital.
At first @JT7 and I were wondering if she might have been related to POR since their surnames are the same, but their interactions were not like that of relatives at all. Now the strange circumstance of POR immediately being removed from the hospital makes Nurse Park look suspicious, but Dir Oh should be in on why POR is to be kept away from the hospital. It might be on his orders that POR is to be left entirely to the police and the hospital really did bring in a new ’emergency’ patient too.
So we still have nothing conclusive about what to think of Nurse Park.
“It is me who will take care of my child.” This is what the killer said to the brothers’ mom.
Goodness, I don’t even wanna say/type MY’s mom as the killer, how much more does GT feels after knowing/realizing that his lover’s mom was the one who killed his mom?!?! Then cue Romeo & Juliet story; we didn’t even hear a retelling because aside from it being a famous tale, we just know this is about our ill-fated couple.
What makes MY’s mom say that to ST & GT’s mom? There’s gotta be more to the story than what we know so far. Does MY’s mom searched about GT because he somewhat influenced MY (what with her warning MY she’s gonna kill the prince); then there she’s killing the mom of the prince? I bet the moms already met each other or something. There are speculations running around with KDH having an affair with the bros’ mom and all, I doubt this, KDH is devoted to his wife. Hmmmmmm I don’t know.
Sometimes it’s easier to not feel emotions. To not feel the pain inflicted by the cruelty of the world that we live in. To not know things and just live carefree and no worries. But then, might as well not live. As the boy with nightmares shared, the boy may not have nightmares alright, but he still feel unhappy. Overcoming our nightmares is the way so we could live with happiness.
A wild guess, maybe MY’s mother is not dead and is POR, after plastic surgery… The head nurse do seems suspicious, and her surname is also Park. Could they be related?
@Growing Beautifully (GB) – “MY uses the count with … (2) GT got her to use it again with him, which was a successful calming technique since her anger decreased … When she first congratulated herself on holding back, the scene cuts to the kiss, however, I felt that she was thinking not of 3) but more of 2) which lead to the kiss and made it possible.”
Yes, totally from MY’s perspective. I thought GT got her to use it not only for her, but for himself at that moment. GT was not 100% in himself that he felt the way he did or it was an impulse move. If I recalled correctly, he even said 3 out loud and went in for the kiss. He was totally using the technique for himself.
They really packed a lot of things into 12 so I thought it was a really good episode—growth of the 3 of them, finally touched upon the murder of GT/ST’s mother, family photo, and GT looks pretty damn good cleaned up.
Scenes I loved in 12:
*ST & MY having a meeting while GT watches them argue
*MY driving like a psycho to kill the ants that swarm GT
*MY yelling out that she wants a baby boy in the supermarket w/ GT
*ST wrapping up Pil-Wong on the bus and comforting him while he has his breakdown
*MY trying to seduce GT in her bedroom
*Seung-Jae walking into the bedroom pretending to talk to Sang-In in order to get Joo-Ri jealous. They are both sly foxes.
*Family photo
I leave the rest to you kdrama pros. I’ll sit in the backseat.
@John L, you picked great scenes. I also liked the scenes with Dir. Oh who is definitely NOT a quack as well as the expanded scene with drunk MY where she tells GT things about her parents.
Ref the kiss, yes, he did say ‘three’.😊 When you say GT was not ‘100% in himself’, do you mean it was the fact that he was feverish that allowed it?
I wondered why GT doesn’t tell Dir Oh about the note left by Ok-Ran to ST? Why is he hiding it from everyone?
@packmule3 and all the other analytic brains of BoD, I am in awe for everything from the math and science, the medicine, the literary references qnd the humor. Now we have Goethe. Another reason to enjoy the thrill of this blog. My mind takes time to process much of what I read here bug the rewards just keep coming. While I’m not great in the analysis d epartment, I hope to sometimes add a little bit of color to the discussions, and try to live by the ground rules (that I think distinguish this blog from the empty chatter elsewhere). This reminds me of my one-time experience as a Trekker, where I skewed Vulcan and appreciated logic, even when emotion got the better of me.
When ST describes his memory to Dir O, in his memory he is wearing a backpack that has the words, Seongjin Welfare Centre and the camera focusses on that. Just after MY’s mother stabbed ST’s mother she said, ‘I didn’t get to say this earlier; it is me who will take care of my child.’
To me this implies that they had an earlier conversation about someone else having guardianship of MY. It made me wonder if MY was perceived to be suffering or at risk or suffering harm at her parents’ hands. Could GT’s mother be a Social worker who worked for the welfare centre? Or perhaps GT’s mom simply got in the middle of GT and MY’s youthful relationship and while confronting MY’s mother she noticed strange behaviour? Something that to MY’s mother felt threatening enough reason to kill?
I guess we may learn next week – or not, if Mr Ko goes to his grave with the secrets.
There is a character description for the Head Nurse. I just didn’t bother to translate it. It’s brief. It’s a tad weird because it’s a direct translation from the Naver app.
English
“Strict and meticulous. a tight perfectionist with no room for a needle. Her rounding day is a station and the entire ward is icy. A strong sense of occupation that saving a patient is the first thing. She is the only person who can beat Oh, when he is not sure where to go.”
When I translated it to Chinese, the gist is this
“Strict and meticulous. A rigid perfectionist so tight that not even a needle can pierce through (I think this means she does her work so well that there’s little room for error – it’s water tight). She treats the entire ward as an ice rink and she competes for the podium (I think this just means she’s very work oriented and gets things done – probably explains why she decided to just assume OkRan isn’t coming back and puts the next person on the waiting list in her bed. She gets the business moving along). “Saving a patient is our first priority” – from the beginning to the end (I think this means it’s her motto when treating patients). She is the only person who can beat Oh (a man who acts unpredictably).
@GB I noticed the 3s as well. The 3 wishes. The counting to 3. And the scribbled out notes OkRan put in the book that GT found amongst her possessions. And yes to Ugly Duckling about being family. JuRi and her mom weren’t related to GT/ST/JaeSu but out of the goodness of their hearts took them in. In the real world, I would’ve preferred JuRi for GT. 😂. But that’s just the rational part of me speaking.
@LeeDale9198 I think it’s got to do with possession. OkRan said it and so did MY. “Don’t touch anything that is mine.” MY’s mom perceived MY as her possession. OkRan believed (as a Sasaeng fan does) that MY’s mom belonged to her. MY also took on her mom’s personality to a certain extent. Until she cut the cord (her hair) and broke away. POR embodied her…and as an actress “became” her. Imitation is the height of flattery. That’s my guess. Haven’t watched Ep12. So when GT threatened to “steal MY away from her” by coming to the Castle, she wanted to get rid of the threat. POR in her own way felt that MY’s dad “stole” her bias from her, by marrying her and then causing her demise. So I think she was tormenting him in the hospital as payback. If POR embodied MY’s mom, then GT and MY would be in trouble because the whole affair would be repeated as per when they were children.
@packmule3 i always learn something new when you post 🙂
Delurking as I couldn’t resist for these two episodes. I loved the bickering between MY and ST but the family portrait made me heart cry and sing…and of course the 6pm date that ST imvited GT too.
@JohnL i remember you spoke about this show being inspired (maybe) by a book and I keep thinking about it. I have already plamned to binge (re)watch once the show is complete and then read the book. Thanks for sharing.
I had two questions:
– was the shadow of the butterflies falling on MY and GT a metaphor? It was creepy.
– the sequence when GT walks to his brother with the butterfly envelope in his hand is broken with a scene of MY sleeping with Mang Tae, zoom out and patterns on the window becoming a web. What could that mean?
I also noticed we keep seeing the lamp with the moths(??) Again and again just before entering the cursed castle at night, why?
And i love reading everyone’s takes so am glad that the blog is still open for me to read.
@Fern i also think Mr. KO might pass away next week. But we will see.
I am still thinking about that vertigo-inducing kiss in Episode 11.
I just finished Episode 12 and my head is spinning even more. We finally saw ST’s memory of his mother’s murder. Some questions were answered, but now we have more mysteries to ponder:
1. Who is the child the murderer was referring to? MY? Or ST?
2. Patient POR left the note for ST. How did she know that he feared butterflies?
3. Is the murderer really MY’s mom? It occurred to me that even if she was very possessive of MY, she did not kill ST and GT’s mom. Is it possible that the murder was committed by her deranged fan POR?
4. I remember POR mentioning Othello and how he killed his wife over a misunderstanding. What if POR killed the mom, and Mr. Ko thought it was his own wife who did it and killed her? Finding out his mistake would definitely drive him insane.
5. MY and ST fight just like siblings. Are they?
@Snow flower your compositions are beautiful 🙂
I can only answer question 2:
In the episode when ST was taking pictures with his mobile to get ideas/ do character studies for his mural he was about to click POK when a butterfly flew near his hand and he panicked and ran away. Maybe that is how POK knows about ST’s fear of butterflies.
I also think that the head nurse might be feeding her information just because her expressions are weird. Head nurse seemed nice in the first few episodes but she became strange for me after she approached ST and spoke about flowers+tried to be friendly. It doesn’t look as though the director has asked her for help.
@Fern – “Ref the kiss, yes, he did say ‘three’. When you say GT was not ‘100% in himself’, do you mean it was the fact that he was feverish that allowed it?”
GT is never/rarely impulsive with his emotions with MY—never sure of himself that he likes/loves her. He often plays the coward and runs away. I meant he was counting himself as a gut check before he commits to showing her how he feels about her. Lovesickness for the win!!
@Snowflower Q#3. The butterfly brooch was the clue given. It was the same as the photo. I wonder how much was it. If it was a fan gift, we can assume it was POK who gifted it to MY’s mom then POK had a similar brooch then went on to kill ST & GT’s mom? What could possibly be POK’s motive then? Is she that involved with the Moon family?
Also given this assumption, I doubt MY’s mom would wear any fan gift but this is just my speculation.
@LeeDale9198
I read somewhere on reddit or youtube comments that the brooch in the photo is on the right side while during the murder sequence it is on the left. I am not good at left and right so… i still cant make that fact out.
@John L GT so regrets committing to MY and asking his hyung to not run away in that sequence when he hitting the wall, yet my heart ached for MY. She actually asks him are you angry because I am acting like an empty can… awww. That lady nails it.
She really would do anything for GT or even if he is named. Her saying hello to Juri’s mom because ST asks her to was so… i dont have words for all the things this drama makes me feel.
I just discovered this blog post. I was planning to be a lurker, but I can’t help, but say THANK YOU for sharing your thoughts not least of all, giving a great lesson on critical thinking based on Goethe!
I am still trying to marinate Episode 12 in my head. Hoping to put words together on this episode. 🙂
Still haven’t watched last night’s ep but have been reading spoilers here.
I am still of the opinion that MY’s mom is dead. Her dad keeps saying he killed her. And now that his tumor is inoperable, I think he will die with that knowledge. I was trying to work out how the writer would deal with the ramifications of his “murder” when it comes out to the open. But if he dies, then it’s conveniently wrapped up. POR has taken on the identity of MY’s mom. I think head nurse is just eccentric (like Dir Oh) and therefore harmless…but she’s coming across as somewhat malevolent for some reason. 🤔
I need to carve out some time to watch it today. 🙂
@nrllee I have more or less the same thoughts as you, that MY’s mum is dead, because MY remembers vividly seeing her dead. This is along with her dad’s repeated claims, plus the references to Psycho and the witch in Oz. The show tries to keep it a mystery by showing that the body seemingly disappears from the basement, but that could be easily solved by the dad dumping the body in the lake (again ref Psycho) or locking her in a chest (ref Prince Sado).
Regarding the ramifications of the murder, I get the feeling the show is trying to exonerate KDH’s actions on the basis of mental illness. In Ep 1 we are shown that Go Eun understands that her father was not to blame for his actions of strangling her, and that it was because he was mentally ill. We see flashbacks of MY being strangled by KDH… which may be how the show indicates that KDH too, was mentally unsound when he tried to strangle MY, and hence could not be blamed for his actions. MY also mentions that her father went insane in their home, and perhaps killed MY’s mum then.
Nurse Park is described as heartless by one of her staff, but I see moments of kindness/empathy amidst her strict demeanour. She scolds Cha Yong when he comments about how a senator’s son could have manic syndrome, and she gets the Dino doll for ST. I wonder if the show is just leading us on for her character, as a red herring to draw some attention away from POR?
Thanks for the character description for Nurse Park, the ice rink and podium make me think of skating competitions and winning, and “beating” Dir Oh seems to imply again the idea of winning. But what does she want to win?
@no one: I noticed the patterns too, it looked like a sea coral display on first glance. I wonder if this is to link their story to another fairytale that has been mentioned earlier: The little mermaid. Perhaps it alludes to MY having to sacrifice something for her love for GT like in the fairy tale. (Side note, did anyone notice that the brothers’ room in the castle has a display of 2 starfish, one big, one small?). It could also be a link to the animation in Ep 1, the black coral branches resemble the tree that was the shadow that haunted the little girl, ie. it’s to hint that the shadow of MY’s mum might be back to haunt MY.
@fern Good catch wrt the welfare center! I like how the script never wastes a scene as a random filler, it’s like every little object and figure of speech has some meaning to it.
@snowflower Your idea #4 is interesting, and might be possible. And would be ironic since the murder (of GT’s mum) caused a misunderstanding, which caused another murder (of MY’s mum), which then causes another misunderstanding (between MY and GT). I feel so sad for GT, that he has now reverted to fake smiling again.
Speaking of Othello and Shakespeare reminds me, did anyone notice the “pen is mightier than the sword” reference? POR picks up the sword letter opener, but puts it down in favour of the pen. And it is the pen that slashes MY’s hand. Shakespeare uses this reference in Hamlet (which I mentioned earlier that POR seems to be referencing by playing a ghost and goading KDH into a confession), but in a more old fashioned way: “many wearing rapiers are afraid of goosequills”.
Episode 12 – With a title like Romeo and Juliet, we just knew that angst was in store. However I’m thinking of Sleeping Beauty to begin with.
This episodebegins with GT uncharacteristically over-sleeping. ST and MY had tried to wake him up without success.
GT : “Why didn’t you wake me?”
MY : “I even slapped your face to wake you up, but you kept sleeping like the princess in Sleeping Beauty.”
ST : “Princess. If you want to wake a princess, you need to kiss her.”
MY : “I did.” (And GT wipes his lips surreptitiously LOL.)
GT was the Sleeping Beauty for a change. He’d never had beauty sleep in a long, long time. It was unfortunately to be the last good sleep he was to have for a while.
Waking Up – Since maybe even before age 12, GT had been ‘asleep’ for a long time. He was the boy who had no sense of self since he had to think of and for his brother even when his mother was alive. It took MY’s harassment, her unreasonableness, whining and demands for attention/love and her pointing out that he was in need of freedom and fun, that woke him up from his sleep of many years. He had just begun to be true to himself, to let go and be happy as he was, but the spell of a wicked witch made the thorns grow again around his heart.
GT as the Prince (moth) – The thorns motif in the opening credits is a weekly reminder that Sleeping Beauty is one of the side themes in this show (maybe it will be a main theme in the coming episodes?). The image of the lighted lamp outside the gate of the Castle, overgrown with the dead creepers, with the moth attracted to the light, was a little reminiscent of the Disney version of Aurora (Sleeping Beauty) sleeping in a castle that was surrounded by thorns. The Prince that came to rescue her, had to do battle against the thorns that the wicked witch, Maleficent, enchanted to keep growing to block him (if I remember correctly). In the end he also had to battle Maleficent (as a fire breathing dragon) who set the thorns around him on fire. He did however have the help of the 3 good little witches.
The moth can’t help itself, constantly approaching the light only to be singed by the heat of the bulb (or flame). GT too confessed that he cannot be without MY, however in this episode, knowing now that being with her also means being disloyal to his mum and brother, kills him inside. Yet, he cannot help himself but to throw himself against the thorns and the fire. It’s no wonder he wanted to switch places with Aurora and be the Sleeping Beauty who did not have to wake up.
The beginning Sleeping Beauty episode of GT is book-ended by the scene towards the end.
ST reports to MY : (1:06:42) “He won’t wake up. He won’t even answer me. He’s just sleeping with the blanket over his head. He’s such a sleepyhead.”
To her credit, MY listens to the unreasonableness and whining of ST who had prepared long and hard for the photo shoot, and decides to go ahead to take photos with him, to cheer him up. I really liked that when she saw him perk up at the thought of taking photos after all, she had a genuinely fond smile for him.
I wait with trepidation the final four episodes where I expect GT to face the dragon, but also, by that time, I expect that he will not be alone, but have 3 good witches by his side. 🙂
@John L – I like your idea that the count to 3 was also for GT. Maybe he was not only getting MY to control herself, but he was trying to get the nerve to kiss her at the same time? LOL. They both landed on the count of three and he took his chances with that very delectable kiss.
I liked all those scenes that you chose too. And I like the Dir Oh scenes. I like that he knows when to speak, what to say to provoke thought and change, and when to be silent and just be there.
@Fern
I’m thinking this is the case. Her conversation with ST
Mum : “I have to work late from now on, so you’ll have to go home with Gang Tae.” This sounds like she was taking him home from the Welfare Center which was their routine. It might be that she worked nearby but I got the impression that she worked in the Center.
MY’s mum, when it came to MY, was obsessively possessive and so it was likely no one could touch her stuff (something MY learnt from her mother?). So a mere welfare worker’s ‘advice’ might have been considered as unendurable interference. It did feel like the stabbing came at an end of some prologue that we don’t know about.
@JT7 @nrllee MY’s Mum being dead – I did agree with you. I’ve been saying the same. However, I compared the eyes and mouth of the killer in ST’s memory of the murder, with that of POR, and they are not the same person. They may look more like the actress who plays Do Hee Jae. Since we cannot have a totally unknown actress suddenly turning up, we are (and this could still be a red herring) kind of forced to go back to the ‘dead’ Do Hee Jae. *sigh*
@JT7, good point about exonerating KDH based on insanity. I guess show has to give us a reasonable father-daughter reconciliation, and she has to be able to forgive him. He was after all a loving dad until he went insane. I do want this among my Healing Endings, so I’ll take it eagerly.
Nurse Park – I still don’t know what to think of her. I just generally felt positive about her, except for a few odd scenes. If she’s in any competition to win, I’d think it was that she’s got this running disapproval of Dir Oh who is unlike her. He’s more random, quirky and goes into things with gut feel and perception. He is also not a stickler for rules. She wanted him to do things differently with regards to Kang Ki Do, Ah Reum, etc, but he did things his own way. So she may want to win out in having things her way for a change. That might be why she so quickly ‘evicted’ POR before anyone could stop her.
About the pen – sword. Good catch. I did notice them but the saying didn’t come to mind. I did notice though that the pen was the instrument of murder for MY’s mum. She stabbed the woman in the neck with a fountain pen. It was a slimmer pen than the one that POR handled that night, and possibly sharper. It seemed like the fitting weapon that a writer would wield. We also had foreshadowing of this when MY threatened to stab the slimy book critic in the eye with his fountain pen. And what you say about the pen slashing MY’s hand. I guess that’s why we see fountain pens instead of ballpoint ones. It’s to link to the murder.
@No One @LeeDale9198 About left or right. Good catch. In the photo, the brooch is pinned to the right side of the jacket. On the night of the murder, it was on the left. The killer stabbed GT’s mum in the right side of her neck when facing her, ie when using her right hand. A right-handed person will normally pin a brooch on the left side. It’s easier to pin that way. I really wanted to know if MY’s mum was left handed, however, in Ep 4, timestamp 29:25 although MY’s mother began to brush her hair with her left hand, she switched over and used her right hand more. In Ep 6, timestamp 1:04:40, MY’s mum is shown kneeling next to MY on the left and squeezing her neck hard with her right hand. I was really hoping that she’d be left handed so that we could state unequivocally that she’s not the killer, but *sigh*, we cannot.
Side note: the killer stabbed GT’s mum with her right hand which still held the pen dripping with blood, however she used her left hand to stroke ST’s head and squeeze the back of his neck very hard, in the same way that she’d done to MY. Killer is likely right-handed or ambidextrous. This accounts for his trauma with regards to people touching that part of his head.
@No One, I kind of gave my take on answering these questions in the post above.
– I felt that they looked like thorns rather than a web. I touched on them above under Sleeping Beauty.
I also noticed we keep seeing the lamp with the moths(??) Again and again just before entering the cursed castle at night, why? I was guessing a link with the Sleeping Beauty story.
– it seemed to be real ie, there really was someone who had access to the basement, knew where the brooch was and had free reign to walk around the house with that brooch. From the way that Sang In, Jae Su etc persons could walk into the house, it seems the door is hardly ever locked! However, let’s see if the show makes this clear later. The thing is, the person had access to everything but only did this walkabout with butterfly brooch without disturbing anything else. Also, POR is still loose.
This is SO nice of him (Oh JungSe). ❤️
https://www.soompi.com/article/1415065wpp/oh-jung-se-garners-positive-attention-for-making-special-memories-with-a-fan-at-an-amusement-park
Okay just finished Ep12. So I guess MY mom’s could still be alive? Questions I have
1. Why would she wait all this time to show up? Unless MY’s return to the Castle triggered her return?
2. How did she survive the head wound? And being locked up in the basement?
3. The father keeps saying she’s dead? Unless it’s his dementia speaking. Or he believed he killed her?
4. If she was alive, was she using POR to torment MY’s dad in the hospital? And using her to deliver the envelope with the butterfly to ST?
5. Why bother to have POR in the story at all? If MY’s mother is alive? Her escape seemed to coincide with the appearance of the lady in Ep11. And to have SeongJae talk about Sasaeng fans? Could POR have been a witness to the murder? Did she stalk MY’s mother like Sasaeng fans do?
Things I loved
1. The 3 of them taking a family portrait
2. MY finally showing signs that she’s learning empathy and being able to relate relatively normally to ST and even JuRi.
3. I still love JuRi and her mom. Their calm presence and sweet natures makes me believe good hearted folk (Munchkins, or Shire folk/Hobbits in the Tolkien landscape).
4. ST being the hero for the PTSD war veteran and the adult in many of the conversations 🙂.
@JT7 love reading your points about Shakespeare and breakdown of scenes 👏
I just finished it too @nrllee 🙌🏻 Yeah there seems to be a possibility that MY’s Mom is still alive because she said she just vanished. Maybe she escaped with POR’s help? But she died anyway giving all information about MY and her Dad? 🤷🏻♀️ I’m just throwing this here.
ST is the man in this episode. 🙌🏻 So much maturity and respect for others especially to Juri’s Mom.
MY held no brakes in getting GT to be ‘closer‘ to her but her swearing failed her. 🤪 I liked that flick that GT gave her just to give her some realisation. She did well in doing the photo shoot with ST even if GT wasn’t going to be there.
From not getting used to being not needed, to learning that MY’s Mom might be his Mom’s murderer sure made it very heavy for GT. 😞 It looks like he will embrace MY from the preview but we see MY running away already. Did she find out about it? Sigh……
I liked that Jae-su called MY because of the other ladies ogling at GT but I felt he was jealous too. 😂 But really, he is GT’s bestie.
I agree with @John L about GT counting 1-3 too for himself before that hot kiss. He made up his mind then to accept the fact that he likes MY.
Agdr03 I’m preparing a post for you right now. Missed you. 😍
Omo! Omo! For me? Jinjja? 😍
I’m here! 🙋🏻♀️ Can’t wait! Missed you too Queen B! ☺️ Am I finally getting that cdrama that you mentioned? 🤞🏻😂
@nrllee, OMG-what a beautiful gesture by Oh Jung Se-he reached out to a fan with developmental disabilities, stayed in character and made this kid’s life so happy in a very public place. I love this actor in so many things. Just saw a comedy movie with him as the male lead, an egotistical actor and loved him in his role in Camelias. But he blows me away as ST-and this gesture just seals the deal.
@nrllee, thanks so much for sharing this. Kindness goes a long way.
Queen, I’ll say goodnight okie. Thanks in advance for my post. 😘 I look forward to it, hopefully when I wake up tomorrow? 😉
Have a good day! 👋🏻
Just rewatched the awesome Family Photo scene and thought about GT’s Cinderella moment. He does clean up nicely!
I agree with John. Gt’s heart is breaking (again), and yet he finds the strength to smile, look his best, and be with his family.
General comment-perception is everything. Each character sees things from her/his own point of view. ST sees things more concretely, MY ‘s view can be seen in her literature and GT seems to be all over the place. To me it is not coincidental that our sweet older man patient has PTSD from his military service (while writers are implied before hand that he might be a murderer). That whole scene with ST wasn’t to just show ST’s character development and quick thinking. It was also to show that our conclusions about people are colored by our own perceptions. This drama is very clever that way. So, we 2 mom’s parallel deaths, malignant brain tumor dad who may or may not be a killer, four kids who grew up in close proximity who saw and remembered their youth so differently, the quality of grounding by JuRi’s mom, art director and Dr. Oh and all the color if the patients, hospital staff and publishing company staff to really mess with our own view of exactly what’s going on. One more note as nothing in this drama happens without a reason- why are we left hanging after publisher left on blind date-I want this to work out for JuRi. Again, drama is playing with our perceptions. That is why I offer no theories on MY’s Mom’s “murder”-don’t even know if she’s dead. I’m still in shock about GT and ST’s mom’s death. But there’s one thing I do know-I WANT TO KNOW (sorry about the screaming). And this drama brilliantly keeps me guessing week after week. So BoDers, thanks for all the theories, enrichment and feels-makesbthe experience a zillion times better.😘
@Growing Beautifully, I watched that stab scene several times but still missed that it was a fountain pen. I wonder if it was the same one held by POR? Well spotted to you and kudos to JT7 for the reference to the pen being mightier than the sword. Gosh, 3 women with a fascination for sharp objects and a hatred of others touching their possessions. 😳
The brooch being on the other side could indicate another person, or it could also indicate that someone else pinned it on from the front. I like the thought of another person, although it could have resulted in a horrific misunderstanding, perhaps back at that time as well as in the present with GT’s assumptions. The woman’s hair and lips looked like MY’s mother’s in the dreams, though.
@John L, where I live people express being slightly ill as not being 100% ‘in myself’; or if feeling fine, ‘I’m well in myself, but don’t have an appetite (or whatever).’ That’s why I thought you were referring to a slight fever.
I think that this drama could have several surprises for us ahead. The topics of family register and guardianship make me wonder if some people are related who don’t know they are, and others not related. This could be good, or it could go horribly pear-shaped in an ill-fated way. For those who think the newbie is related to Dir O; when Dir O said he might ask him to resign, the staff had a good laugh, as though they know it would never happen. It may also explain his difficulty with authority, aka Dad.
Seung-Jae has become a right mischief maker with her fake phone call, saying that Sang-in’s blind date looked like Song Hye-kyo (his celeb crush) and her revelation about being a H.O.T. stan. While I understood that she was stifled, bullied and frustrated with her job, I think I’ve been completely conned about her and her innocent act. What next? Or is Sang-in behind it? And how about Jae-su with his phone call to MY?! I wasn’t expecting that.
I already love Oh Jung Se in this show, and this effort of his, playing the character for a whole day with the fan, just elevates my regard for him. Thanks @nrllee!
You’ve got a point there about the mention of sasaeng fans. This show is dense and to the point. If sasaeng fans are mentioned, it’s something to note. The other thing tha is mentioned in connection with POR is her plastic surgery. So if we assume POR is an extreme among sasaeng fans, it’s possible that she got to know DHJ (MY’s mum) and found out or was told in depth info about the Ko family. She would also probably have often been on the spot near her ‘idol’.
Therefore, if anything happened, she might have known it. She’d know about the killing of GT’s mum, and work to cover it up. If she was nearby during the investigation, she’d have picked up the fact that ST was terrified of butterflies.
She might have had access to the castle. When DHJ was injured (a head injury with loss of blood), she could have gone into the castle to get her out of the basement.
Another alternative, she identified so much with DHJ that she dressed like her and carried out what DHJ would have done on her behalf. She might have been the killer.
If DHJ actually was saved by POR and survived, there might be 2 of them in cahoots, now. DHJ might have had a bad enough head injury so that it took her years to recover. In the meantime POR had undergone plastic surgery so that ST, who had been terrified anyway, would not recognise her.
@Fern
That’s true. I was thinking of a crazy like POR dressing like her but pinning the brooch differently. However your point about killer looking more like MY’s mum is my opinion too. I’m sadly thinking that MY’s mum is alive after all, unless show is trolling us.
Another good point. So much reference to the family register. What would make GT’s connection to MY more palatable if her mother is the killer, is that MY does not share the same blood as her mum. I can’t think of another way to use the info on the family register to ease the sticky situation.
True, this.
The intriguing Seung Jae… I’m beginning to think that her job scope has changed. Maybe she’s become the promoter of romance for her boss. He could be putting her up to it, and getting her to report to him about JR’s state of mind.
And I’m with @Old American Lady about the strange non-conclusion about Sang In’s blind date. Show has deliberately added stress for Ju Ri by having Dr Kwon marry after 1 blind date, but Sang In’s silence is suspicious. It seems almost deliberate ie as if he has not called, so that Seung Jae has opportunity to suss out how JR feels about his not being around and not calling her. Poor Ju Ri.
@GB Good point regarding Nurse Park and Dir Oh! And yes, I saw that the fountain pen was the murder weapon! (And I can no longer look at fountain pens without shuddering. Heh) Also, I noticed that the murderer was wearing red heels. Speaking of POR being loose, now we have THREE missing people: POR, DHJ, and CEO Lee. I wonder what happened to him.
@nrllee Aw thanks for the article, that is so so sweet of him!
@Old American lady: Your comment about perception was insightful. And you mentioned that we can grasp MY’s view through her writing… which reminds me of something that recently came to mind.
I was mulling over the story of the Zombie boy and how it seems to refer to both ST, GT or even MY as the zombie. However, I felt like MY’s mum didn’t seem to fit the self-sacrificial character of the mother in her story, though MY does seem to fit the description of the zombie kid. It was after I watched the bonus epilogue that I saw something that was not shown in Ep 4: The mother in the story had a shadow like a tree, just like the girl in the animation in Ep 1 had a tree shadow, which might indicate that when MY wrote the story, she might have identified with the mother figure instead of the zombie boy (but it wasn’t obvious because we mostly analysed it based on the mother/child motif). Also, in that same episode, MY again describes her father as being a zombie, and she is also identified to be his guardian. In a way, he did try to suck the life out of her by strangling her, and I think she is unable to forgive him for that even though he might have not been in his right mind when he did so. I guess the show will have to complete this story arc, and I hope MY will be able to forgive him in time to come, just like how Go Eun forgave her father in Ep 1.
Oh and seems like MY’s next book is going to be done soon? I love the illustrator’s take on her stories. https://www.instagram.com/p/CDJK1Hjni_g/?igshid=ihbwmb8mipau
Should we be worried about CEO Lee? He is not calling JR even though he promised. And POR is still at large…and the mom of MY may not be dead after all…Ah, the anxiety!
@JT7, what a lovely mini-animation from the illustrator. Thank you.
@Snow Flower, I don’t want to be worried about CEO Lee as well. 😦 Let’s hope that he is just being mischievous and planning that absence makes the heart grow fonder. 😉
@Growing Beautifully, good idea that Seung-jae’s job description may have changed. That she’s willing to go along with it seemed odd to me, given her relationship with him earlier, but perhaps she’s indebted to him.
@JT7-Thanks so much for the illustration. First impressions-MY seems to be larger than life and both brothers seem smaller and flawed. I’m hoping that this is a red herring. Poor ST seems to be depicted as not being totally human. Would the illustration be the expression of MY’s thought process or an indication of ST’s, assuming, as in the drama, he actually is doing her illustrations. I guess we’ll know more next week. They know how to whet one’s appetite.
@Snow Flower, They certainly know how to tug at our heartstrings. I’ve come to like CEO Lee a lot. I enjoy his energy and have come to believe that he is not the shallow guy he seemed to be in the early episodes. So many characters Re not what they initially appeared to be – The fun and frustration of this drama.
I did not like the way Director Lee treated Seung Jae in the early episodes: taking his frustrations out on her by yelling, making threatening gestures, blaming her when things went wrong, insulting her. I also didn’t agree with his practice of buying peace by paying huge sums of money to smooth issues with troublemakers. It was only when Sang In’s publishing house went bankrupt and the pressure of running the company was lifted from him did he shift toward being a wiser, less volatile person.
Seung Jae confuses me as a character. I couldn’t understand why she would remain Sang In’s employee when she was subjected to so much verbal abuse. Is she sticking to him, now that the company is dissolved, hoping she’ll eventually receive the back pay he owes her? Is it Stockholm Syndrome that led her to be the only remaining co-worker? I do not sense she has any romantic inclination toward Sang In. At first she came across as meek, only mumbling rejoinders to herself instead of boldly speaking up in her own defense; since settling in at JuRi’s house, we see she’s got a streak of deviousness. She also appears to have a knack of divulging information others would rather not have spoken out loud. Is she truly unaware of the impact her words will have, it is her innocence an act? I just don’t see what she has to gain, or what her motivations are. I’m sensing her more as a plot catalyst than a fully developed character.
As for MY’s mom being transformed into POR, I believe the show is being intentionally ambiguous. There are reasons for believing yes: she has a cruel streak; she’s had plastic surgeries that may have altered her appearance beyond recognition; she knows many details about MY, KDH, ST. But I find it hard to believe neither KDH or MY showed any glimmer of recognition before her behavior changed to suggest a connection to DHJ; even when POR confronted MY in the cursed castle, MY did not appear to see her as her returned mother. Is POR just acting a role when it suits her? Even if DHJ’s face was altered, I’d imagine her voice and manner of carrying herself would remain recognizable to those who knew her well. Also, her handwriting would remain the same, so I wish GT would pursue that clue instead of hiding the note POR wrote.
During the scene of the murder of Moon brothers’ mother, I do get the impression the women had a previous history in contact. Again, I think the show is being intentionally ambiguous about the identity of “my child” that the killer spoke of to her victim. With all the foreshadowing of foster parenting, it is possible ST is not the biological child of the woman who raised him. Was he the son of DHJ and ST’s father, abandoned by DHJ because he was born out of wedlock or was a result of a failed marriage? I believe we learned that before KDH married her, DHJ had been an announcer. She had a public image to uphold, and a career, so caring for a developmentally disabled child was not something she could accept; but maybe later she regretting letting him go, and resented that another woman, not his blood kin, was raising her son. I do not believe GT is related by blood to KDH or DHJ, because his mom did specify she gave birth to GT. It might not be a bad idea for ST, GT, and MY all to get genetic testing done, but as this is reel life instead of real life, I doubt that will happen. However, if it turns out that ST is a half brother to MY, that would allow ST to accept MY as family, and give GT further reason to allow himself to love MY, as his beloved hyeung, ST, would have the same connection to the killer as MY. GT is not likely to cast away ST, so it would be hypocritical to withdraw from MY.
@Packmule3, I’d like to request two more threads: one for PBIO timeline, and one for PBIO OST. Thanks!
#Welmaris, I really like your family theory about ST. It doesn’t sound as if GT would be related to MY because then they’d have to deal with incest.
Re:CEO Lee and our Art Director, I think his work relationship is reflective of Korean business in general with big corporations having regular employees, contract employees and interns with an overlay of subcontractors. There is a very strict be hierarchy in employment and I suspect women have it very tough. Behaviors at work are determined by where you place in the hierarchy. So in this drama I believe that our CEOs relationships at work are reflective of what actually goes on in the real world. I have spent a lot of time on Wikipedia while I viewed Misaeng and Revolutionary Love; two workplace centric dramas.(And in the 1980s I got a masters degree in labor and industrial relations where some of the course work was in international labor systems-at the time in the US much was said about lifetime employment by Japanese salarymen. However,the backbone of the Japanese system was actually subcontracting, where lots of bad acts continue in most economies today-ergo t slave labor and horrendous conditions that produce be both high andbliwvend products). So it’s no wonder that CEO treats staff badly but takes abuse from his star author. And finally bribery us not uncommon. So I think the writing reflects reality.
Howdy! 😊
I’d like to think that Sang-In is just really visiting his parents and having a blind date. But Ju-ri is right, why say he’d call when his not calling? 🤷🏻♀️
True too, at the beginning I didn’t like him because of the way he treated Seung-jae. But then again I guess it is all part of my first impression.
If the butterfly shadow over GT and MY is real then that’s scary. 😱
Queen @packmule3, what’s the title of that kdrama where the main leads married in real life? The FL studied in Australia in the story. I forgot the title. I’m interested in watching it if it’s still around. 😊 This is them now. They’re going strong. ☺️
https://www.instagram.com/p/CDB9yAnAfLW/?igshid=jng5lz9jqirk
@agdro3It’s Eugene and Ki Take Young who met on Creating Destiny
Fun fact, they appeared with their daughter Roger on The Return of Superman, a variety show where famous dad’s care for their children. They had another daughter Rohin but left the show. I read that Eugene had a complicated second pregnancy. What impressed me about tKi Take Young was that he did cooking and housework and was very romantic with Eugene and a very involved Dad. Tiger was a baby, then a toddler and a preschooler. The parental affection for their child was so obvious. And Rohee was precious and adorable.
Thank you @Old American Lady for the nice info! Aww they have 2 kids. 🥰
Creating Destiny! That’s it! 😊
Will do, Welmaris.
@JT7 Thanks for the link to the illustration. It does really encompass what MY and GT said about each character.
1) the boy with no sense of self (Gant Tae who seems to have a plan)
2) the guy who’s trapped in a box (Sang Tae who can’t get away from his Autism)
3) the emotionless princess, (Mun Yeong with the biggest sense of self, and and while she listens to the guys, stands ready to take action impulsively.)
I’m expecting it to be a brighter story, possibly open-ended, but with lots of hope. This illustration is so much happier than the ones in her published works!!!
@Welmaris, that’s a lot of food for thought. The only thing I query is the possibility of ST being the son of DHJ and fostered or adopted by GT’s mother. The reason is that the murdered woman was shown to be so much more protective of ST than of GT, as though ST was her true son. It looked to me that she was still trying to protect ST after being stabbed despite the other woman saying that she would care for her child. I have to admit that it would be tidy if ST was half-sibling to both GT and MY, but I think it would also go against the idea I like that one doesn’t have to be related to make up a family. (Of course that could be a problem with my preference, rather than the intent of the writer.)
There was also a mention of how MY didn’t look like her father early in the show, but it could have been a red herring. I would think that the show would give us some clue that DHJ was ST’s dad just because it’s the sort of thing that happens in dramas, unless the clue is in the artistic talent? Also, Ju-ri’s mom mentions how alike ST and MY are, and they certainly fight like siblings! Perhaps I’m convincing myself here…🤔
If Seung-jae is the one who often mentions the elephant in the room, she may be the one who spills about MY’s mother, although I don’t know how she would get the information unless she researched it. Or it could be ST, if he happens to see the photo from Mr Ko’s room or if he mentions the brooch to MY.
I also wonder how much Ju-ri’s mother knows about the brothers? She would have heard about the murder and about them running away. Couldn’t she have figured it out?
In the clearer photo in Mr Ko’s room, MY seems not just solemn but frightened to me. It’s interesting, in light of our discussion about family connections, that she claims to ST that a family photo makes a family. Is it a recollection for her or is it simply creativity?
@Old American Lady, I agree that MY and GT being related would be too much for this story. It would become like a Greek legend or tragedy.
Regarding Dir Lee and Seung-jae, I remember that he laid off the other employees go because he was bankrupt. How is he paying Seung-jae – or perhaps he isn’t? Good point about the hierarchy! I think he kept her to be his last remaining bit of status as a servant-like employee. Wasn’t it horrid how he bought every cake except the one she wanted? I am coming to accept @Welmaris’s idea that Seung-jae is a plot catalyst, although in earlier episodes, I hoped that she would be more central.
Do you guys remember in episode 12 where MY & GT were at Pizza Alvolo and had a discussion about children? MY said “I don’t want to be jealous of my child.” This stuck out to me. I think this means that Dae Hwan (MY’s mom) was jealous of MY. So she is motivated to make MY’s life as miserable as possible. Taking away the things she perceived were taken from her (husband, love, not being able to bear children?, etc).
Scenarios:
*MY’s father loved MY more than her and that made her jealous.
*MY isn’t really Dae Hwan’s daughter, which you guys have alluded to. She didn’t want to take care of a duckling that wasn’t hers.
@Fern, I’m thinking that although he has the never ending Wednesday appointment with his family/blind date, CEO Lee might have kept Seung-jae on because she is like family to him. She knows him best, warts and all and even though he mistreats her, she offers acceptance and familiarity. This seems to be in keeping with the drama’s theme of second chance families that are peppered throughout from Dr. Oh’s dad/brother/uncle role to all the patients and staff to Best friend/pizza man and Ju-ri’s mom providing nourishment and a place to land for the brothers, MY, CEO Lee and the like. There are others but they are all families found. And all have an underlying sense of love and for those who have been broken a modicum if security. After all Ju-ri’s Mom did try to take in MY. No family registration needed-found families with truly caring people. (And a note on Ju-ri-the only real female friend MY had in childhood and Seng-jae is the only female friend MY has in adulthood (she finds a way to provide MY with the truth as she sees it, even if she is in an inferior role and sticks by her even getting perpetually dissed after the bankruptcy). We see that the drama’s creators have established the underlying structures for our characters to have second chance families-they only need to be aware that they’re there.
@John L,
Dae Hwan is MY’s father. I think the mom’s name is Do Hee Jae. I agree with you that it is possible that Mr. Ko loved his daughter more than his wife (or so the wife thought) and that made the wife very jealous. The mom also appears to have been very possessive and controlling of MY. Would a woman behave like that to a child who is not hers? I don’t know. The mom clearly had issues…
In an earlier comment I mentioned the possibility that MY may not have been Dae Hwan’s daughter, but the daughter of Hee Jae by another man. We still don’t know.
However, the theme of raising someone else’s child and what makes family a family seems to be very important in the story. Different interpretations of The Ugly Duckling and the focus on family photographs (and the differences between them) are clues for a big reveal which probably will happen in the last 4 episodes.
So who is the child not raised by a biological mother? MY? ST? GT? JR? It looks like the only thing we know for sure is that GT is his mother’s biological son because she told him that she gave birth to him. Or can her statement be interpreted in a different way?
@Sun Flower – Thanks for correcting me ☺️ regarding MY’s “mother’s” proper name. Sorry if I confused everybody.
No worries, @John L. I understood what you meant.
Just going back to the episode’s title: “Romeo and Juliet”. The obvious idea the writer is showing is that GT and MY’s love is ill-fated. After GT connected the dots of MY’s mum possibly being his own mother’s killer, he feels trapped and the situation feels impossible – much like Romeo and Juliet as their families feud.
Under all this, what is interesting is the contrast to Romeo and Juliet’s story. When these Shakespearean characters fell in love, they felt this sense of freedom, in that their love would transcend their responsibilities to their families. Like they can be free from their families, free from that long-standing feud.
For GT, he sort of sought freedom from his responsibilities to his brother (his only family at the time). For MY, who has always been disconnected from her father (her only known living family), she sought escape from the cage her mother built. Despite falling in love, GT understands well that family is not something he can throw away and run away from. He embraces his familial responsibilities to ST, and even encourages ST to adopt MY into their family. It took a lot of effort for MY to win over ST, but it was through love that she found herself a family.
I guess it sort of shows us the fault in Romeo and Juliet’s story. Instead of rebelling against their own families and keeping their love secret… Instead of believing the illusion they were liberated from their families… Romeo and Juliet should have fought to make their very own families understand their love. Where Romeo and Juliet’s love is impulsive, marrying behind their parents’ backs, MY and GT’s love is careful and cautious and selfless (despite MY’s wild personality). Careful and cautious in that they are working on winning ST’s approval. Selfless in that they’re not running away from their responsibilities to their families.
I disagree with the interpretations offered above regarding GT’s silently counting to three along with MY, speaking the last number just before kissing MY. I don’t think GT was trying to talk himself into expressing his affection; I believe he was making an effort to keep his passion under control. In other words, if he hadn’t counted to three before kissing MY, he may not have been able to stop himself. Back when they’d shared a room overnight at the cheap guesthouse, after GT convinced MY to fall asleep instead of ravaging him, GT sat up and looked at MY, saying, “I told you that I can no longer hold myself back. I guess I can’t run away anymore.”
@John L may have been hinting about this: Could it be possible that MY is daughter to neither Ko Dae Hwan nor Do Hee Jae, but altogether adopted? The reason I ask is she doesn’t look like Dae Hwan and Do Hee Jae may be so insecure about the adoption that she tries to make MY into a miniature version of herself – hair, clothing, attitudes, and a ‘photograph that makes them a family’. Even her career, as it turns out. MY may have heard that phrase from Do Hee Jae. @Snow Flower mentions her being jealous of MY and I hadn’t considered that as a possible source of her controlling behaviour. Of course, biological parents sometimes do those sorts of unhealthy things, too.
I’m not positive that GT’s mother spoke the truth about his birth, either. She was drunk, and tradition says that the truth comes out with drink, but not always. I didn’t think that she treated him like a biological son. Or if he is her biological son, she may have wanted a different man to be the father of the ‘care-giver son’ in case ST’s condition was genetic. That idea is uncomfortable for me. The show drops a lot of clues, but some may be red herrings. It will be interesting to see how our leads and their families are related in the end.
@Old American Lady wrote about second chance families, so the family register may not matter at all as long as everyone finds the love and support they need.
@Welmaris, I agree with you that GT was counting silently in order to calm himself down. He did not need to courage to commit himself to MY, because he had already committed himself to her by the end of Episode 8, if not earlier.
As for sorting out the hints and the red flags, we will have to wait and see. So far I am very impressed with the writer. Nothing comes out of nowhere.
@Packmule3, please check your email. I’ve sent you what I worked out for the timeline of PBIO.
I noticed that the opening credits are in color for the odd-numbered episodes, and in black and white for the even-numbered ones. The odd-numbered episodes seem to have more comic and/or romantic moments, while the even-numbered episodes have more dramatic/conflict scenes. Since the final episode is an even-numbered one, I wonder what’s in store for our characters? My gut feeling tells me the ending will be happy, with some sadness mixed in (Mr. Ko will probably die), but who knows? I am so invested in this drama and really hope the ending would do it justice.
👍 Will do. I should be home around 10pm. Thanks!
My musical impression of Episodes 9-10:
https://soundcloud.com/user-858010722/missing-you
Thank you everyone for the wonderful discourse. This is my first time reading about Goethe 🙂 I started watching K Dramas just for the aesthetics (still a member of shallow island) but this drama is awesome and heartwarming on so many levels. There wasn’t any episode that felt draggy and the viewers were put through an emotional roller coaster ride every single time. The writing, directing and acting seems to me like the perfect trifecta. It also addresses societal issues which in most places are still taboo. So kudos to the production team.
As someone mentioned above, nothing comes from nowhere and every single thing is done with something in mind. I hope everything turns out well for the Moon brothers and GT & MY’s love story does not end like Romeo and Juliet.
Another melody that gave me the feels! Thanks @Snow Flower. I like the sequences where it goes into minor notes, gives me a sense of the pathos and an unfinished feeling, the way the stories in this show are not all finished products. And I feel that this show could end safely with an open ending and it would be okay, because our characters’ growths continue.
@Snow Flower, thank you. I can picture that in the background as GT and MY are apart.
Okay this is my stab at why the murder happened. ST has the bag which says SeongJin Welfare Home. I think this is where he stays in the day (gets cared for) whilst his mother works. GT is at school probably? His mom then says this (like what @GB mentioned)
“ST I have to work late from now on. So you’ll have to go home with GT.“
Then as MY’s mom stabs her, she says this,
“I didn’t get to say this earlier, it is me who will take care of my child.”
Initially I thought she meant earlier BEFORE I stabbed you. But what if GT’s mom was hired to work in the Castle by MY’s dad? Hence her “I have to work late from now on”. Maybe to look after MY? So earlier meant at the Castle. GT’s mom may have “touched” MY? Whom MY’s mom felt was hers alone. I don’t like it when people touch my things? Which is why MY’s mom gave her the ultimatum, “I will take care of my child. Not you!”. So she didn’t just kill someone random who the dad knew nothing about. She killed the housekeeper.
I thought it had to do with GT visiting but it’s too big of a reach. That’s why she let ST go. He wasn’t a threat to her. He never touched her things?
@nrllee, I definitely get a sense from the killer’s words that she and her victim had interacted prior to the murder. It wasn’t random, nor a spontaneous act, but premeditated. The killer likely followed her victim and chose the most opportune time and place.
I hope others noticed that the site of the murder was the tunnel that featured prominently in Hotel del Luna as the passageway to afterlife.
I did noticed the tunnel for Hotel De Luna @Welmaris 😊
Is it Saturday yet? 😭
I’m watching the tunnel scene again with the mother killing GT mum. There are certain features of her if you look closely that looks similar to Nurse with red lipstick on. Her smile reminds me of the head nurse and I think that’s why they’re hiding her face and showing only small parts, the reveal would be she’s the head nurse dressed up as Moon Young’s mum. I’m not sure why yet but she could be her sister as theories have suggested. I think we all need to go watch her scenes again very carefully.
The title of Episode 13 is A Tale of Two Sisters.
Thanks @Snow Flower. I looked it up. It’s interesting that in Wikipedia on PBIO, the title says ‘The Father of a Tale of Two Sisters’.
Then still in Wikipedia, I looked up ‘A Tale of Two Sisters’ and found it was a movie based on a Joseon era tale. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Tale_of_Two_Sisters
“A Tale of Two Sisters (Korean: 장화, 홍련; RR: Janghwa, Hongryeon; lit. “Rose Flower, Red Lotus”) is a 2003 South Korean psychological horror drama film written and directed by Kim Jee-woon. The film is inspired by a Joseon Dynasty era folktale entitled Janghwa Hongryeon jeon, which has been adapted to film several times. The plot focuses on a recently released patient from a mental institution who returns home with her sister, only to face disturbing events between her stepmother and the ghosts haunting their house – all of which are connected to a dark past in the family’s history.”
That led me to the Joseon era tale itself also on Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janghwa_Hongryeon_jeon
What a story! It reminds me slightly of the fairy tale, Snow White and Rose Red … one of the daughters is even named rose in Korean. Although the father does come into it the story,… he’s merely the one marrying the step-mums and is left in the dark as to the real goings-on.
The main protagonists of the Joseon era tale are the stepmother and the two sisters, with maybe a step-brother thrown in.
If this is indeed the story that Ep 13 has put up as its ‘theme’, then once again show calls into question the relationship between mums and children. Who’s the stepmum? MY’s mother? GT’s and ST’s mum? Both? POR?
The death of the sisters was by drowning and smacks of the death of the daughter in the song, ‘Oh My Darling Clementine’, and reminds us of the wet footprints and water in MY’s nightmares.
On top of this, the movie adaptation of this Joseon tale has hallucinatory characters who are really dead, and in PBIO we do have more than once, the possibility of either another being, like MY’s mum, or a hallucination, having access to the Cursed Castle.
@GB, I read the fairy tale. I wonder who the sisters are. So far the writer has never mentioned sisters in the story. We know that multiple interpretations of fairytales are the hallmarks of this show, so I am very curious.
@Snow Flower andb@Growing Beautifully, does the title also lead us to believe that Head Nurse is MY’s mother’s sister(all,of this look alike stuff)-good sister v “evil”/demented sister? And all of that drowning-the Moon boys(contrasting brothers). Family dtsfunction and the mental hospital being the setting (also asylum) for healing right down to a caring staff, including Ju-ri and her wonderful Mom, always being a great source of nourishment (as is GT’s best friend our current pizza man). Lots to ponder going into the final two weeks’ episides.
I’m betting that Lead Nurse Park and escaped patient POK are sisters. And we shall see how they relate to MY’s mother.
Nurse Park may be prickly, but I have been led to believe she has a good person. She’s conscientious about doing her job well, and reminds others to do their best as it relates to work at the hospital (without being overbearing). If writer turns her into the evil antagonist, I will be disappointed, because it will feel more like slight of hand than a skillful setup. We have never seen her have an anger outburst, even when she disagrees with Director Oh or when Aide Oh acts immaturely. From what we’ve been shown of her, she seems to have control of her temper (something MY’s mother lacked) and has the best interests of the hospital’s staff and patients at heart.
Patient POK has been shown to have a cruel streak; be vain; be aggressively, unreasonably posessive of the book Murder of the Witch of the West (which, we saw, is from the hospital library, not hers by ownership); and both Director Oh and Nurse Park noted her behavior changing for the worse. She demonstrates characteristics and behaviors we’d expect from MY’s mother, but I’m not yet convinced she is MY’s mother. I’m on the fence.
Yes that would be interesting about the sisters. But this drama tends to just take segments of the fairy tales to use in the plot line and not the entirety. Like the feuding families (and death of someone close) on Romeo/Juliet but I can’t imagine the writer taking it to its final conclusion with the suicide. And Ugly Duckling was about blended families and acceptance.
I must admit it’s been a while since I read fairy tales so it is refreshing to reread 😂 and find out how much I had forgotten. I remember parts of the tale and when I read the whole story I realize I had missed a large part of it. Or worse yet, that Hollywood had romanticized the whole fairy tale to make it more palatable to the audience.
@packmule, s’il vous plait, may we have an open post for eps. 13-14 of PBIO?
Bien sûr! Pas de problème!
@BeingWritten – Nurse Park dressed as MY’s mum!!! A horrific twist! I’m not too sold on the idea that her lips look like Nurse Park’s… I had to make my screen brighter and freeze frame. Still looked more like the photo of MY’s mum. I’ll be so bummed if Nurse Park really turned out to be SOOOO different from what show has been showing us she is. It has to give us more concrete hints, even if they’re red herrings. Since it hasn’t done it directly enough, I don’t know what to think. (Or I do if the theory on schizophrenia has any weight … pl see below.)
@Snow Flower – the identity of the Two Sisters in the fairytale … my tendency will be to go with the more obvious. IE the 2 or 3 persons of the same generation who show care for each other. In my other post on the Timeline thread (I mis-posted it actually. It was meant to be posted here, but nevermind) I was positing that in the makeshift family of Moon and Ko, ST was more like the mum figure and GT and MY were the siblings.
@Old American Lady – The common surnames really give us the runaround. We have toyed with the idea that Nurse Park and POR could be related. I watched their interactions, but saw only antagonism on the part of POR and submission and politeness on the part of Nurse Park. No sign that they were related by blood. However they could both be acting very well. How chilling if both are fans of Do Hee Jae and had a hand in the killing of GT’s mum and DHJ’s disappearance!
The idea of good sister and evil sister reminds me of the Good Witch and the Wicked Witch of the West who were sisters. We’ve also noted duality cropping up here and there in this show. Are we dealing with 2 people of opposite personalities or a single entity like Jekyll and Hyde? If the latter, Nurse Park is as good a candidate as any, in her Dr Jekyll persona most of her work time, while we don’t see what she’s like outside the hospital.
Yes, the Two Sisters also features a mental hospital and a mentally ill young person. Her delusions lead her to kill … somewhat like KDH’s delusions or belief in the presence of DHJ causes him to strangle a likely suspect.
It’s interesting that the missing figure in ALL of the stories is the FATHER. The title in wikipedia calls the episode “The Father of a Tale of Two Sisters”. So why does the Father suddenly feature in the title? Are we to have more information on KDH now as he approaches his death? That’s what I’m guessing. We need more clues and he’s the only one who is supposed to know what happened to DHJ whom he claims to have killed.
With a title like “The Father of a Tale of Two Sisters”, I’m expecting even more of a mash-up of what we had before and the dad’s story.
@Welmaris – I too think Nurse Park is not likely evil, even if related to POR. However I’m just playing around with the idea of Schizophrenia, and the possibility that she can be a totally different personality, that we do not yet know about. About POR, there are not enough clues to form a proper conclusion.
@nrllee – True, I haven’t read fairytales with attention in a long, long time. Disneyfied ones are pure light entertainment without the angst, but not entirely accurate to the originals. I’ve been enjoying looking up stories that I thought I knew, but find, I actually don’t!!! This is the fun way to be re-educated.
I think what often happens with “dissociative identity disorder” (The movie version of A Tale of 2 Sisters) is that the person with the disorder actually “sees” the other person as “real”. So the actress playing MY’s real mother may just be there to enact that for us? And we’re just seeing what the person with the disorder sees. Like MY’s mom as a floating ghost over her in bed. It’s all in their head. I feel in part MY herself has it. She acts out her mother.
“It is ultimately revealed that Su-mi and her father were alone in the house the entire time. Su-yeon and Eun-joo were merely hallucinatory manifestations of Su-mi’s dissociative identity disorder.” – Wikipedia “A Tale or 2 Sisters”.
The father in the story brings home a woman to care for his ill wife. It could be MY’s father decided MY’s mother needed a “helper” or someone to supervise her dealing with MY. Enter GT’s mother. She’s killed as a result. MY’s father finds out and flies into a rage.
The movie has the real mother attempting suicide.
I am in 2 minds about what transpired here
1. scenario 1. The lake scene. MY’s mother attempts to drown herself? She is rescued but locked up in the basement by the father. She kills herself in the basement (and succeeds this time). My finds her corpse. The father buries her in the garden/forest somewhere.
2. scenario 2. The Father locks the mother up in the basement. He tries to drown MY because he thinks she will grow up to be like the mother. But saves her in the end. Meanwhile her mother takes her own life in the basement and MY finds her body.
POR is the one with a similar disorder. So she’s become MY’s mother. Her condition will be the driver to explain MY’s?
This is turning out to be very Sixth Sense… 😂. I could be totally wrong. But I agree with @GB and @Welmaris – that Head Nurse is well meaning and is not harboring some diabolical scheme with mal-intent.
@snowflower thanks for the episode name! @nrllee good point that the show only takes certain aspects of each tale to weave into the plot.
@GB I also went digging earlier and found the reference to the movie as well as the Korean tale that it referenced. There is also mention of a sister in the story of Bluebeard: it is the sister that visits and later saves the protagonist from being killed by Bluebeard.
I went to rewatch certain scenes in Ep11/12 and realized that:
1. The killer might not be DHJ, even though she has been pictured wearing a similar butterfly brooch. Some of you mentioned that the brooch was pinned on the left for the killer, but on the right for MY’s mum, which may suggest it is not MY’s mother who killed GT’s mother. MY’s mum was always pictured with painted nails, and a ring on her left hand, this is shown when she strokes MY’s hair. However, when the killer strokes ST’s hair, we see that her nails are not painted, and she does not wear a ring. Also, in the scenes in the basement, the unknown lady who takes the butterfly brooch out of the drawer has short hair, which tells me it is not MY’s mother (since her mother emphasised how long hair was the link between mother and daughter).
2. Perhaps the killer was POR. Ju-ri mentions that POR was last seen entering the entrance to the mountain (which I assume is the tunnel where GT’s mother was killed, and this is followed by Nurse Park asking Juri to have POR’s things packed up). I have a feeling Nurse Park knows more than she reveals, but like some of you have mentioned, she doesn’t seem to be evil. So it might be the killer was POR, but KDH had thought it was his wife… and that misunderstanding led to him killing his wife in a fit of rage (like in Othello, as POR has hinted).
3. In the film of the tale of 2 sisters, the older sister thinks that the younger is still alive, and acts out the part of the younger. It makes me wonder if perhaps it is POR and DHJ that are sisters, and POR is acting out things that she thinks her sister might do (ie. kill GT’s mother). This would explain how she is familiar with many personal details, like the location of the castle, MY’s birthday etc. The brooch, with the 2 butterflies, may be used to represent sisterhood rather than motherhood, just like how there are constant references to GT being the LITTLE brother, and the 2 differently sized starfish in GT/ST’s shared room in the castle. Like in Bluebeard, the husband is not aware that his wife has a sister.
4. There is another portrait that was featured, but not prominently: the framed photo on POR’s bedside table. We see the photo twice as GT packs up her things. A lady is in the foreground, dressed theatrically in furs (she looks somewhat like a witch), she is flanked by 2 children who look similar and around the age of MY when she took her family portrait, and there is also 2 others standing behind. I wonder if this portrait is significant.
5. I think some of you mentioned the significance of the number 3? I noticed there are many references to 3 within POR’s belongings. She was studying Book 3 of the Western Witch series, and had many note cards stuffed inside the book (It is Book 9 that is passed to ST). In her notebook, there is a “flowchart” of 3 items circled and arrows connecting those 3 points to another point. There is also a sketch of what seems to be lighting directions, interestingly enough the sketch shows one stick figure, with 2 other stick figures coming from it (so 3 stick figures), and 2 other shadows. It makes me wonder if (I know this is a big stretch, but just thinking aloud), it may be that there are actually 3 sisters in total: DJH, POR, and Nurse Park. (Random idea: The show has many references to Shakespeare. GB, you mentioned about the 3 witches in Macbeth. In another of Shakespeare’s plays, there are 3 sisters, who are the daughters of King Lear. 2 are “bad”, and one is “good”, and the good one is sent away. Perhaps it may be that Nurse Park may be the “good” sister. We did discuss that Nurse Park may have been POR’s sister after all!)
O @JT7 great catch! Don’t tell me MY is a twin or a sister? Urgh I went to try to take a pic of that photo you mentioned in 4. And you’re right.
https://i.ibb.co/VLFHNLt/9-B4-E1854-EC41-4-A95-B715-4-F763603-D919.jpg
I am guessing the lady in furs is POR? The girls MY and her sister? But why has she never mentioned a sister? What happened to the sister? Ko Family portrait only had her in it? Unless the photo is of POR when she was little. And she had a sister…like your point 3? In which case I am not sure who the lady in furs is. So it could be Othello then, that POR is the killer and DJH is innocent. Nurse Park would be acting all sorts of strange if she didn’t even acknowledge that POR was family? So she’s in on the plan to torment MY’s dad and also MY (now that POR is free?)? It would make the whole wrap up very messy if there’s too many layers. So I would much prefer Nurse Park to be innocent and we just have POR and MY’s family to work out. 😂
OOOooo I love it when several of us BoDers get our heads and impressions together and share our observations. I’m always amazed that I watched the same things but they didn’t strike me until someone else points them out.
@nrllee if MY has Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID) and is projecting or becoming her own mother, that is terribly disturbing. She will need therapy. The scenes where I wonder if there’s an extra person in the house was 1) Episode where MY first arrives at the Cursed Castle … she goes up the stairs but below, the door leading to the basement closes on it’s own accord and we hear the many locks engaging in the basement door. Camera does not dwell on this but cuts to MY upstairs opening the door to the balcony etc.
2) The end of Episode 11 where the medium-short haired woman takes the brooch from the dressing table in the basement and plays it’s shadow upon the photo of MY, then upon her sleeping form and upon GT.
These scenes, one at the beginning and the other much further in time in the show, make me question if show wants to remind us to pay attention. Is there another entrance to the basement and does someone else have free entry to the Castle, without MY even knowing… or… could the short haired woman be MY herself? Her mouth though (which we do get to see) looks like MY’s mum’s mouth.
I like your scenarios @nrllee, it brings together MY’s mum and GT’s mum in a logical way.
The scene of the body in the basement troubles me because at one time the liquid flowing from the body looked like water and another time, the liquid flowing more fromm the head, looked like blood. It was appalling how the liquid flowed out to reach MY and she didn’t even flinch. I really want to know if this is a memory or a nightmare.
When MY told the lady (KEJ) who treated her like her own daughter that her mother was dead and she had seen her lying sprawled on the floor, she might have been telling the truth… at least partially if not completely.
@nrllee thanks for the pic! Yes that was what I was talking about, the 2 children look almost like twins, don’t they? Am going to reply you over in the new thread for Ep 13-14, and copy my previous comment over, since tonights episode will probably answer some of your questions.
@GB good observations wrt the scenes where there is an extra person, again, replying you over in the new thread!