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Titles:
(at 13:01) Ep 7: Burn-Rate: The Rate at Which a Start-Up Spends Money
(at 4:50) Ep 8: Backup: A Copy of Data Stored Elsewhere to Prepare for When the Original is Lost
49 Comments On “Start-Up: Eps 7 & 8 Open Thread”
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Can I just whack JP. Just once, please? Pretty please?
Watching him was like watching Junghwan of Reply 1988 all over again. He was giving me a heartburn. He was late to the game.
There were many moments, like the garage scene, when he could have stepped up to the plate. But since he didn’t step up, since he was being cautious, since he didn’t expend energy, he’s losing it.
In the end, Dosan was just a better guy. The meeting with Grandma was intense, but the meeting with the director was perfect. I didn’t expect that.
Meanwhile, JP was in his office. He knew it was going to be a disastrous meeting but he didn’t act on it. Had he done so, he would have been a hero in Dalmi’s mind.
I hope you all get the meaning of the title here: “Burn-out Rate: The Rate at Which a Start-Up Spends Money.”
🙂
Hopefully this has not been discussed yet, but whom should be responsible for telling DM the truth about the letters? DS? JP? WD? Or all of them as a group?
I applaud DS for wanting to do it before it becomes an issue (for professional & personal reasons), but I think WD should since she started it off in the first place. DS & JP are just accomplices.
They had a chance earlier as a group. They were all there. At that dinner time, it was JP’s game decision. The Grandma and DS were letting him tell Dalmi.
Who’s WD? The Grandma?
Grandma already “muted” Dosan when she asked Dosan not to mention her eye condition to anybody. While she didn’t say outright that she wanted him NOT to tell Dalmi about the fake Dosan, it was clear that she was binding him to that secret as well. Why? How? Because she said that the last thing she wanted to see was a smiling Dalmi.
Dalmi smiling = Dalmi getting angry, sad, that she’d been lied to
So, if I understand his character well, Dosan ain’t gonna snitch on the letters. 🙂
Ideally, everybody should be there to tell Dalmi about his/her role in this affair.
Grandma could start it off.
JP could explain his role in writing the letters Grandma dictated and looking for DS.
But DS could explain (or not) his decision to continue.
JP not acting when he knew what was going to happen was so frustrating. I was like why should I even root for you to end up with her? You don’t do anything! Also he frustrated me so much during the whole grandmother and love triangle thing at the beginning. It was like what do you want to gain here? Why are you ignoring her calls? Why are you doing this? Why are you always later. Not even gonna spend time just screaming how much Dosan stole my heart because of his idea. It’s just like him to do this, like him to think about how how to make others feel better, but also I think it stemmed from his gratefulness to the grandma, she’s the one who started it all and he was racking his brain on how to help her even more. This is what he could come up with. I loved it.
Right?
I thought JP had a good chance of getting ahead when the episode opened with him answering all 460 questions. Wow!
When he turned his car around and drove to the house, I was going, “That’s it, my man! Go! Go! Go!”
But when he saw the lint on her hair and clenched his hand, I knew that he wasn’t going to make a move…at least in this episode.
Ugh! That was so aggravating. Is the writer trying to string us along?
And the garage scene. I wanted to imagine that they had sparks that time, and that the scene could lead to something else in the future. But after that scene with Dosan smashing the name plate…nope.
About his idea, do you see it, too? Dosan pitched his idea for assisted vision AI, and they all thought it was brilliant BUT BUT BUT when Dalmi suggested that they work with this Morning Group for the cash, Dosan went along with her idea. Without argument. Without fuss. Without disagreement.
When he did walk out that room, Dalmi was of the same mind, too.
Just finished Episode 7. I really enjoyed how they are intwining business planning into the story. When starting a business, a Business Plan is needed. One of the key components of the Business Plan is PURPOSE. The initial purpose of the project was creating something for the visually impaired (for Grandma). However, that got derailed because they started chasing money. Theoretically, people should chase their passions instead of the money in order to have a successful business. The storyline goes onto to show Team Samsan realizing their plan was wrong and shifted back to the visually impaired project—though it maybe less profitable (but more fulfilling). Huge points for Do-San standing up for Dal-Mi.
I can’t be the only one that knew Do-San was going to create something to help Grandma. This is why Do-San is going to win the Suzy Sweepstakes once this is revealed.
Anyone shocked that Dal-Mi said she would pick the old Do-San vs the new Do-San?
Are you trolling me? 🙂
When did Dalmi say that she was going to pick old Dosan??
The thing about Dosan’s AI visually impaired project is that there’s little return for it. Remember in Episode 6, JP already vetoed his assistant’s pitch for an AI *voice* technology combined with health services. He didn’t think it was profitable.
So, would he agree to an AI vision technology to be utilized for health services now? Maybe he would if he found that it was for Dalmi’s grandma….
Oh, I see it now. lol. I forgot to finish the episode! hahaha.
That’s nice. JP still has a fighting chance. 🙂
Everything hinges on Grandma…
I don’t know, guys. Do I really want a front row seat to JiPyeong repeatedly hitting himself in the face against the overwhelming, everlasting love between Dal Mi and Do San for the next multiple episodes? Does the show really need to prolong the inevitable?
It’d be one thing if they’re veering away from the love triangle very soon. But I’ve seen filming clips hinting that they’re still doing love triangle shenanigans after the timeskip. Hopefully it’s a misdirect.
That Dal Mi said she’d choose old Do San felt like a flimsy attempt at maintaining interest. Honestly, it makes me not trust the show as much overall.
Not a lot of development of some of the things the prior episodes hinted at. What will prompt the timeskip?
You hit the nail on the head. When Dalmi said in the epilogue that old Dosan was her choice, I wondered what the writer’s point was. What’s the point of this trolling?
There’s a timeskip?? Did I miss that?
But hey! we got JP started to take care of that plant. So that’s a baby step towards learning to nurture a LIVING thing. Previously, he only bonded with that Siri/Alexa device. But now, he’s taking care of a plant. There’s progress in his “humanization” so maybe towards the end, he’ll fight for her. I just hope it won’t be too late for him.
I gave him bonus point in the beginning because of the letters he co-wrote with Grandma. But he lost a significant number of points when he dissed DS and his team and was harsh with Dalmi.
It’s actually good that Dosan knows for sure that he likes Dalmi. That “overwhelming, everlasting love” as you said is good for the story because heaven forbid we have two undecided, weak-willed males in our hand. That would drive us batty.
Also, because we have Dosan to compare JP with, it’s easier to see what JP’s doing wrong. For instance, he’s too be commended for answering 460 questions. He was late but at least he did them! That can be taken as a sign that he likes Dalmi, and that’s going to win Dalmi’s heart.
However, I didn’t like it when he let Dosan’s words rile him up that he made a u-turn to visit Dalmi’s house. The impression I got there was he was doing this because he was competing against him, not because he cared for Dalmi. But that’s my problem with this character; I don’t know whether he likes her for real or he’s merely confusing his feelings for her with his feelings of gratitude for Grandma, and now, this rivalry with Dosan. But whatever it is, based on what I’ve seen so far, I don’t think he’s a viable endgame for Dalmi. Who knows? Maybe next episode, he’ll show a different side.
The text messages from the first episodes have 2016 dates (like Dal Mi’s text from when she got into the Hackaton). AlphaGo which they reference early on is also a 2016 creation. So people are assuming there will be a timeskip – plus set pictures show the characters in much spiffier outfits/hairstyles.
I caught the fact that JP only went back because of Do San’s taunt. And it was to stop Do San from telling the truth about the letters – and he only wanted to speak with DS? I don’t like that JiPyeong does a lot of baffling things but all we get from him is his base level action or reaction. It gives the impression of depths to be explored, but there’s been no payoff.
I can’t believe they would veer away from Do San and Dal Mi after that kiss, not even with a timeskip. So extra stuff that could be kind of interesting – Dal Mi’s statement, in particular – is just noise IMO.
I want JP to break out of this dead-end loveline and start growing in different ways. I think it’s cute that Dal Mi is helping him be more open, at least.
Ooooh. That makes sense. If this is all happening in 2016, and the story will fast-forward to 2020, then JP and DoSan will have a better, fairer competition. Right now, we’re getting a naive Dosan but four years will weather him and make him more interesting. It’ll be fascinating to see if he lives up to this “Living Buddha” moniker. As for JP, if he continues in this “humanizing” trajectory, four years will make him less abrasive and more benevolent. He still has that “hunger-in-the-belly” and “get-rich-quick” mentality. But there should come a time when instead of being focused on accumulation of WEALTH, he would become focused on building LEGACY, i.e., how to mold new entrepreneurs, and impart his knowledge and wisdom to the new generation.
The director of Sand Box is already in that stage of her life. She doesn’t seem to care about acquiring wealth because she can AFFORD not to worry about her income. She wants to develop future entrepreneurs.
Now I called it when I said in the previous posts that Jipyeong and Grandma are the ones who should tell Dalmi the truth and not Dosan. 😅
The rooftop kisses 😍🤩😘😁🤣😂😅😆😄 Gaaaaaaaahhhhh I’m so thrilled, excited, so many emotions felt in one! Yeah maybe as what Dalmi said, she’s still getting used to the real Dosan, but he excites her and all that! Waaaahaahhahaaa that’s enough reason to bring myself on Cloud 9 with their kiss and all 😂🤣😅.
Anyway, JP’s should start to sort out his feelings ASAP. He somehow still has a chance in this game 😂. The plant is a good way to start 🤣. That encounter with the guard is hilarious and cute.
Injae, our dear lonely unnie. Her character development is on finding purpose. I’m also rooting on her happiness too. I’m looking forward on her journey but she’s still underrated here (less screentime 😂).
Also Chulsan, Saha, and Yongsan. There’s some brewing triangle in them too 🤣. Yongsan’s dog is cute too.
Episode 7 is so fun to watch. But the next ep is not looking good tho. Dosan at the police station then kneeling in front of the director. Also we still have Alex, then the revenge issue. Yikes, here’s to bracing myself for what’s to come.
This episode was so conflicting for me I don’t know why I just ended up disliking Jipyeong even more despite all he did for Dal mi. Im annoyed I’m feeling this way
Tell me why you dislike JP in this episode? The ending? The epilogue? The car ride? Because Dosan is feeling jealous? 🙂
Maybe the epilogue? It just didn’t sit well with me. But tbh she likes both of them I still think Dosan is endgame unless he turns bad. I get why people like Jipyeonh he’s good boy but at the same time I still don’t think he’s doing anything so amazing or great to be Dalmis endgame but I do get he was good this episode maybe even romantic but I just don’t like him more than Dosan. I hate that I feel this way. Normally I’m more like unbiased but I can’t help but see things more in Dosans perspective I guess
I’m here for Dal Mi becoming SamSan Tech’s badass CEO, and JiPyeong changing for the better, and that’s it. I’m happy that Suzy has stepped up and leads some of the coolest moments of the show.
Here’s my problem with Do San as a character. I’ll try my best to make sense. The show wants me to feel like he’s an underdog, but he’s not. He’s perfect. He just needed to acquire opportunities, skills and experience. Once he did, every action he’s taken has been justified or its negative effects have been neutered. Find me one questionable action Do San has done that hasn’t been stamped with the *Reckless but in a Good Way* or *Unbeatable* stamps of approval. He’s kind-hearted, he’s a genius who uses his powers for good, he’s supportive of his girlfriend (even when his girlfriend is the CEO of his company, which in a show called Startup should have caused some issues), he’s the man of Dal Mi’s dreams in all realistic and fantastical respects. He’s shown hints of being overly jealous of JiPyeong, but that is always forgivable in a first lead.
He IS the Cyrano. The guy Dal Mi fell in love with, whose big flaw is his unwarranted but crippling self doubt.
But he’s determined to get the girl and is going to get her in the end, lol, while Cyrano repeatedly gave up the girl and then died. To counter that little difference in the story, where’s the personal growth? The reason we watch shows and weather hardships with the characters for? The show wants me to feel bad for Do San cuz he’s insecure and frowns at night from within the cage of his big lie? He’s otherwise praised for his perfect solutions and his unflappable kindness. Is the point that coming clean about Grandma counts as growth?
As far as I can tell, the only thing Do San needs to do as a human being between now and Ep.16 is willingly let Dal Mi go and let her come back to him when the anger is over. That’s it. He’s otherwise self-actualized. The payoff for the audience is that we’ll appreciate the suffering in Nam Joo Hyuk’s face as he undergoes the risk of losing her, in all its perfectly lit and beauteous glory.
It feels a tad insipid, even lopsided? Personal growth is fun! It’s energizing. This love story is beautifully shot and comprised of caring and lovely people, but it’s missing that truly hard-won quality I enjoy in my favorite romances.
That’s why even if it’s the most hopeless rally I’ve ever seen, I’m enjoying being in the toddler playpen with JiPyeong, where he’s taking stumbles left and right and allowing himself to feel things. I’m enjoying Dal Mi being there for him in her small ways.
Dal Mi is also a “perfect” character according to the show, just to be clear. Never regrets choices, upbeat to a fault, bluffs forever but faces little negative consequences. But to have two “perfects” combine as the main couple…ugh it’s too much for me.
Well said, @Sofrito.
Did people see the English translation of Do San’s letter at the end of the episode? The letter is heartfelt – the translation is showing up on the Startup Ep. 8 hashtag on Twitter.
Predictably for this show, an interesting tidbit about how sincere the letters were is buried in a screenshot
I’m for Grandma fessing up. She started the ball rolling, created content and also bankrolled JP. Her intentions were good and her execution of the plan offered hope and romance. I just loved how she used the birdhouse. She got Dal Mi through a horrible part of her life when she was abandoned by her mother, sister and through death, be her Dad. And now, Grandma doesn’t want Dal Mi to know about her degenerative eye disease. Is Grandma actually being selfish? I tend to think not. But she is aware that her well-intentioned plan could cause Dal Mi a universe if pain.. so the best laid plans if mice and men…
Ahhh. I get why you ended up DISLIKING Jipyung. I agree. It’s the epilogue. He was doing fine till that asshat move with the hair scrunchie. He’s out in my books. Nope.
Look: I get that he’s jealous. But what he did was totally an asshole move.
Do you see what was wrong with it?
1. JP used Dalmi as a “spear” to attack Dosan’s “shield.” He was jealous and he wanted to strike at Dosan using a G.I.R.L.
2. He should have returned the scrunchie to the rightful owner, Dalmi. THIS was the right thing to do. THIS is what a gentleman would do.
Instead, he gave it to Dosan with an innocent face.
3. He gave it to Dosan to make him jealous. He wanted Dosan to think that Dalmi was seeing him behind his back, and that something was going on between the two of them. This is an asshole move! If fangirls weren’t stupidly crushing on his face, then they’d see that his action was utterly despicable.
FACT: If a second female lead tried this on the heroine — that is, leave a tube of lipstick or an earring in the hero’s car to make it appear as if they had a hot date behind the heroine’s back — the fangirls would be up in arms. They’d know that the intention there was to wreck havoc.
4. He didn’t even darn think that he made Dalmi look like a two-timer, meeting with him SECRETLY. He didn’t care at all about Dalmi’s reputation.
5. He heard Dalmi’s request and he did EXACTLY what Dalmi requested him NOT to do.
Dalmi asked him. “Also, I have a favor to ask you. Please don’t tell Dosan about this (her search for the investors) I want him to focus on his work without worrying about money.” He replied, “That’s very touching.”
Notice how he twisted Dalmi’s words? Sure, he didn’t tell Dosan about her search for investors and he didn’t cause Dosan to worry about money. But he implied that Dalmi went out with him secretly and he made Dosan worry about a cheating girlfriend.
6. He deliberately set out to ruin her relationship with Dosan.
His trashy move tells me that he does NOT love Dalmi. Otherwise, he would have cared that:
a. Dalmi would have been upset by his action.
b. Dalmi was made to look like a cheater.
c. Dalmi’s wishes were flouted.
No. He’s out. He’s not acceptable.
Not to dispute the asshole-ness of the move itself, but I don’t think Ji Pyeong knows Dal Mi and Do San are actually dating. Otherwise why is he freaking out in the Ep. 9 preview?
Then, he’s a bigger idiot than I thought.
Ep 7: Dosan declared that he was going to take care of the bug.
Ep 7: He didn’t remove the lint on her hair. Dosan did, as if he had every right to do it. Dosan even touched her hair.
Ep 7: He overheard Dosan’s goodbye. “You’re our CEO who holds 71 percent of the shares. I’m part of your shares (remove the lint) and I got your back. And we’ll always be a team, no matter what happens.”
Ep 7: He saw them talking that night on the rooftop. And he left them alone.
Ep 8: When he dropped her off, he asked her to drop the voice-processing tech. She said confidently that Dosan could do it.
Ep 8: She asked him the favor of NOT telling Dosan about her search for investments so as not to worry Dosan. He agreed.
How could he be a CEO if he couldn’t even assess situations with his eyes?
But think about this for a second, Sofrito.
It’s actually more despicable if he gave the scrunchie to Dosan, believing that Dosan was just a suitor or admirer.
Why?
A boyfriend would be more likely to defend the girlfriend’s reputation (like Dosan did).
A suitor/admirer would be turned off to hear that his “idol” was a flirt and just back out.
Gee…thanks, JP for ruining a girl’s rep.
lol.
The point here was JP did NOT think his action through. In his jealousy, he lost sight of the important person here. It’s not him. It’s not Dosan. It’s Dalmi.
He just threw Dalmi under the bus. Plain and simple.
Again, reverse this situation. If the second female lead was to do this trick on a heroine, we’d all gang up on her and think that she was nasty. So why are we giving this JP a pass?
Dosan actually deserved 100 points here. He did the right thing. He pretended NOT to care about the scrunchie, and make JP defensive.
Dosan: Are you sure it’s Dalmi’s? Not another girl’s?
JP: (pausing to think about this) What? It can’t be another girl’s.
Dosan: (feigning surprise) You’ve never had a girlfriend?
JP: Why are you asking such a thing?
Dosan: (attacking again) You live close by. Consider riding a bike instead. For the environment and your health, okay?
JP: (bewildered, he nodded as if Dosan was the superior one. lol.)
Dosan: Bye.
JP: (still speechless)
Dosan: (tapping on the hood and smiling)
JP: What. Hey. Darn it. He’s so annoying.
That was well-played by Dosan.
Yeap 100 points for Dosan. I don’t understand why so many ppl are still getting the second lead syndrome. JP is definitely not a part of the love triangle here, neither is he fighting for the girl he likes. I think he is more confused about love than Dosan is. He is doing so many things that is just conflicting and mean.
Dalmi is showing a side of the heart of business. Solving problems for people, creating meaning for people more than just the money. The money is the focus for JP and InJae. Can’t say they are not moved by a noble meaning, like how the emotion detector lighted up for JP when Dalmi shared the story part of her business. JP still as a heart but he operates on systemic processes, like an AI? 😛
Haha, this has become the I HATE JP Startup: Episode 7 Open Thread. I guess I’ll just pile it on. It’s super hard to watch his character now since I feel all he brings is negativity and pessimism. I’m tired of him shutting down just about every idea that Samsan Tech brings him. I guess he missed the friendly bed-side manner of venture capitalism university.
The only points I’ll give him is suggesting to Dal-Mi to record the conversation at Morning Group. That got Samsan Tech funding and DS out of trouble. I was pleasantly surprised how Dal-Mi turned from nice girl to baddass.
@Packmule3 words can’t describe how much I love how you break everything down so easily. I thought I was just being petty/biased about the situation but most of your points are exactly how I felt about the epilogue as well. I was like yeh I get this is a human thing we all get jealous and have vindictive thoughts but nope, I still didn’t like what he planned to do with the scrunchie. I was just like why are people still trying to say Jipyeong is better than Dosan? Now I can move on from that and focus on the symbolism mentioned I guess: The title for this episode was called Back up a copy for the potential of when an original is lost. This was speaking about Dalmi’s feelings right? She said in episode 7 that she liked both of them, her first love was still who she will choose because he’s her first love, but she was getting used to new Dosan. We know she kissed new Dosan because of his actions in episode 7 not because of the past stuff, she was falling more and more for Dosan and in episode 8 when he asked her again what she liked about him, she kissed his hand and admitted that was why she liked him. This time it was automatic, it was the first thought she had, she liked how he used his hands more than all the other stuff she mentioned before. Her feelings were being backed up for the new Dosan, she was starting to see him in a new light and it wasn’t because he was the same guy in the letter. No she was falling for who he really is now. But she thanked him for telling the truth about her grandma this shows how important the truth is to her, so next week they’regoing to break up. I will rewatch the episode again to talk about the other stuff, like the DAU thing, and the incombustible bag Jipyeong was given by Dalmi (it was used to hold her shoes with dung on it) and the scrunchie. Also giving shoes to a lover in korea is susperstition that the couple will break up or you’ll lose the person you gave the shoes to. And then I had to say she tried to convince Jipyeong using the first letter about the dog that died, but that was a lie. Yes it inspired her and moved her but that story was a lie fabricated to help Dalmi deal with her own losses. He was right that we shouldn’t take things for granted but I’m still focused on authenticity since start up keeps drawing a line between authencity vs fantansy/idealisms. Going to rewatch soon.
Like I said, not disputing that the move was dirty! But I do think it matters that he doesn’t know they’re dating. He hasn’t seen any handholding or kissing. He was not out to make Dalmi into a cheater, but he absolutely disregarded her feelings to play mind games on Do San.
I think it’s well established he’s a moron when it comes to the heart, Packmule. Do San did great in this scene, as per his usual self 🙂
This is what I’m trying to work with: The scene makes JP look awful, but it also comes completely out of left field (even for rude JP), is partially imaginary and is half played for laughs. So I am trying to level with that information and with there still being 8 episodes left of show. Is JP a psychopath? Frankly, not a lot would surprise me at this point! But I’m waiting until Ep. 9 to know if the writers were intending on making JP (even more of) a subpar choice.
In my opinion, given his track record, JP comprehensively botches his chances with Dal Mi via a toddler tantrum in Ep. 9, at which point we can all write him off as a love interest anyways.
Grace, I like JP when he was pretending to be tsundere during the coffee meeting with Dalmi. We all know that he isn’t immune to her charms so I thought the scene was funny.
I like him too when he immediately showed up to pick up Dalmi and pretended that he just happened to be passing along that route. He didn’t want her to feel obligated to him.
I like it that (so far) he hasn’t taken advantage of his position to “dazzle” her. (You know what I mean, right?) He isn’t a sleazy mentor.
I also ignored that whole competition in Dalmi’s house. That was done for laughs, anyway.
But this scrunchie scene revealed his character to me. The scrunchie wasn’t fair play. He should have returned it to Dalmi. He was sabotaging a relationship with a lie, an antisocial and non-altruistic lie.
Yes, JP played dirty. It was not right to ruin Dalmi’s reputation in front of Dosan. Even though Dalmi knows the identity of her pen pal, she should acknowledge that her first love is now a thing of the past.
I still think she likes both and time jump will help us know where the writer wants to go with it. JP may come back and be different after he matures and deals with his heart break he may become a very selfless Cyrano for her at this point he’s not being that for me so I’m just turned of and annoyed. I still worry a lot about Dosan’s character development because I can only see him getting successful and then struggling with ego and fame. And that changes a person.
Also his friend is either going to betray him or he’s going to betray them. Because of that foreshadowing quote in the beginning.
But John_L,
JP is written to be the negative and pessimistic character here. That’s how he’ll grow and transform in the end into a real “Good Boy.”
And we can see that he IS growing, little by little. Like he took care of the plant, he picked up Dalmi without questions, and he warned the Director that “Sand Box” could have been named after Dalmi, too since she’s InJae’s sister. (lol. I was going to call him out on this.)
But I agree. I don’t think he’s cut out to be an “angel investor” for Samsan Tech, although I find it amusing whenever the company manages to level up in spite of him.
He didn’t think Samsan Tech was any good. Samsan Tech won CODA.
He didn’t think Dosan had it in him to be CEO. But Dosan wisely chose Dalmi.
He didn’t think Dosan should be “key man,” so Dalmi chose Dosan (and defied him).
He didn’t think this project Noongil which combined visual and voice AI would work, but Dosan designed it, the 1% cousin marketed it, and Dalmi found funding for it.
And Grandma needed it. (See if JP had known it was for Grandma, I’m sure he would have funded it himself. This would have repaid what he owed her.)
BTW, that’s the most ironic thing that happened in this episode, okay? JP didn’t want to fund this app that Dosan made, when Dosan had made it for the Grandma. JP kept on insisting on repaying for her kindness but he missed the only REAL opportunity here.
He doesn’t get Samsan Tech because he doesn’t like its founder, Dosan. Period.
Yes, that quote at the beginning of Episode 8 sounded ominous, didn’t it? We shall see if his friend Youngsan betrays him in the future.
Apropos of nothing, I’m stoked that the actress playing Grandma (a favorite character here) played Rosa in Hospital Playlist (a character who I was ambivalent about).And what a difference in appearance from the elegant Rosa to unadorned Grandma. I live this about the versatility of Korean character actors.
As to JYP or Dosan, the writer set up the characters for sympathetic reactions. Dosan is a natural mensch (a Yiddish term for a good person who is morally pure) while JYP is the picture of ambivalence who acts impulsively at times in a bad way but comes around. The scene where he tells Me. Yoon about the sisters’ relationship to the Sand Box logo adds good depth to him, although he waffles even there by not being specific. The scrunchie incident writ two ways adds to our back and forth with JYP. The writer is playing with us and I think is quite successful in getting us riled up. Although I think we’ll ultimately see a Susan “win”, I believe that JYP will give us some surprises along the way. I’m enjoying the ride and looking forward to the twists and turns in the road.
The scrunchie incident was written two ways to contrast Expectation vs Reality.
The first version was JP’s Expectation. He thought that he could rile Dosan up with the scrunchie.
His IMAGINED Scenario:
JP: (honking car) I’m glad I ran into you. Give this to Ms. Seo.
Dosan: (looks at scrunchie) Why do you have this?
JP: I found it while cleaning the car.
Dosan: Did Dalmi get in your car?
JP: (smiling) Yes.
Dosan: Why?
JP: Wellll…she said I shouldn’t tell you.
See that?? He intended to “lie by omission.” He wasn’t going to tell the truth so the doubt and misconception will form in Dosan’s head and stay there. (Phew!! I’m glad I went over the lies with y’all!)
JP: (smiling while Dosan looks suspicious now) See you.
He rolled up his window and pretended to be concerned.
JP: Oh! Your arms. Be careful. Bye!
He smiled again. Mission accomplished. He looked in his side mirror and saw Dosan kicking his bike in anger. The sight made him happy.
Then the screen flipped to show JP holding the scrunchie and smirking. Do you understand that? He was smiling at the vision or scenario that he just imagined in his head. And he set it into motion.
REALITY:
He honked his car and Dosan approached him.
JP: I’m glad I ran into you. Give this to Ms. Seo.
Dosan: Why do you have this?
JP: I found it while cleaning the car.
See that? His imagined scenario terminated here because Dosan asked a different question.
Dosan: Are you sure it’s Dalmi’s? Not another girl’s?
JP: (pausing to think about this) What? It can’t be another girl’s.
The reason he paused was because he was caught off guard. He wasn’t expecting Dosan to ask this question. Dosan wasn’t following the “script” that he had imagined in his head.
Dosan: (feigning surprise) You’ve never had a girlfriend?
JP: Why are you asking such a thing?
Dosan: (attacking again) You live close by. Consider riding a bike instead. For the environment and your health, okay?
JP: (bewildered, he nodded as if Dosan was the superior one. lol.)
Dosan: Bye.
JP: (still speechless)
Dosan: (tapping on the hood and smiling)
JP: What. Hey. Darn it. He’s so annoying.
In the end, Dosan didn’t kick his bike as JP imagined. Instead, he tapped JP’s car, smiled cheekily at JP, and cycled out of the garage. He left JP frustrated.
See that?
This was Expectation vs Reality. 🙂
Either way, JP was a jackass for using Dalmi’s scrunchie to stir up trouble. lol.
I’ll agree with those who were turned off by the scrunchie scene. It seemed to stem from the conversation earlier when DoSan asked JiPyeong if he was jealous. JP wanted to make DoSan jealous in return? After all the positive scenes where he helped Dalmi that @packmule3 pointed out, his competitive nature got in the way. It was not a Darcy move.
I do believe JP is handicapped due to his history and trust/abandonment issues, but it doesn’t excuse him. If he is to be redeemed, he will have to do something heroic and altruistic. Nor would an apology be out of order.
Did anyone understand what YongSan was actually doing on the computer when he said that he was backing up?
I also didn’t understand why Samsan launched NoonGil if a high number of downloads would bankrupt them. Why didn’t Dalmi inform them? I must have missed something.
A lot of people are blaming Jipyeong for being so slow and not taking actions, but I feel like you guys are forgetting that he was an orphan who didn’t receive love or affection growing up. Sounds a bit cliche, but it’s the truth, ever since the beginning he tried to be tough and push people away. But grandma was the only one who can get to him, this leads to his denial of actually liking Dalmi. He always think that he’s doing this for the sake of repaying debt for grandma, which was the first intention, but slowly he realised (well try to deny) that it wasn’t for grandma his doing it now, but actually for Dalmi. Him and not recognising what love is shouldn’t even be a question or a fault of his, cause after all that was something he didn’t have in his upbringing, unlike Dosan. and I saw someone comparing him to AI? I have to laugh, after the things he does and cares for grandma and Dalmi? he’s far from it, that’s why grandma acknowledge him as good boy from the beginning cause he is hahaaa
@kiara, I agree with all that you said about JP, especially pushing people away. You said it better than I did and he was my preference. But for me personally it doesn’t excuse his actions with the scrunchie.
No. His trust/abandonment issues may NOT be used as a “Get Out of Jail” card, forever. That’s a tired excuse.
If we’re going to employ such a lame excuse each time he does something wrong, then there’ll be no character growth for him. Character growth entails overcoming the handicaps and limitations that he/she was dealt with by “Fate.”
If we’re going to employ such a lame excuse each time he does something wrong, then he doesn’t deserve Dalmi. Remember: Dalmi also had handicaps and limitations. She doesn’t have a college education. But do you see us here using that as an excuse for her failures as a CEO? Nope. We let Dalmi live and learn. She makes a mistake, and she deals with it. We don’t say, “Ooooh, she messed up because she’s only a high school grad.”
Remember too that her sister InJae should have trust/abandonment issues. She was raised by her materialistic mother and her stepfather who abandoned her for his own son. Do we have a pity party for InJae everytime she does a wrong decision or behave disgustingly to her sister? Nope! We call out her bad decisions for what they are: bad. And then we cross our fingers that she’ll do better next time.
And remember this: if we’re going to give a pass for every misdeeds a character does because of his/her family background, then we should give Dosan a sympathy card too. Why? Because his father is narcissistic. He only showers Dosan praise and affection when he can bask in the glow of Dosan’s successes. His father’s love is tied to results/success/winning/achievement.
That’s why Dosan is lacking in self-esteem. Because he’s been raised to think that love is tied to his achievements. THAT’s a pretty big ISSUE there.
In Episode 8, when Grandma said that he was amazing just as he was, he looked sheepish. There was no fanfare required to tell him that he was amazing. So far, his father has said that he was amazing only through banners and streamers, and phone-calls to their family and friends. He’s never said to his son’s face that he was amazing simply because he was his own son. Plain and simple.
Do you see that?
All the main characters have issues. But excusing one of them, without doing the same thing for the others, is what silly fangirling is all about. I’ll be darn if this blog will have creepy fangirls on my watch. 🙂
lol I’m not making that as an excuse, cause it’s the truth. I’m not defending him in the wrong doings e.g the scrunchie scene or him being harsh. That was clearly a jerk move. My argument was about him not taking action. Difference. That lame “excuse” is truly due his psychological upbringing and not knowing what love is. After all he’s now starting to realise it, and it’s not because he feels indebt to. Him not taking a quick move on Dalmi for me it’s not even a wrong deed, what was he supposed to do when he was only getting to know his feelings?
Him hiding the truth was not only his fault, he’s wrong but grandma and Dosan was involved on it dragging longer too.
His wrongdoings are different things, and I’m not saying he’s a saint cause he’s not. Don’t be mistaken. I feel like you were too hasty on arguing on this when it was clearly not my point. and I thought this was an open thread? But guess only people who have the same perspective and ‘ship’ as you can comment on it?
I agree, he has a handicap but it’s not a debilitating character flaw…well, at least, I’m crossing my fingers that it ain’t a fatal flaw. 🙂 You see, if he cannot conquer these trust/abandonment issues, then there isn’t going to be any redemption in the cards for him.
Re. SamSan’s launch of Noongil.
In Episode 7, Dosan made his pitch for the AI for vision-impaired. The team agreed on it.
But then Dalmi happened to see her sister in the hallway. She congratulated her insincerely, and Injae thanked her insincerely. Dalmi accused her of using her connection to win the contract. InJae resented that accusation that she used her “contacts and connections” to get ahead. I get InJae. She got that job based on her skills and “elbow grease.” But people don’t want to give her the credit because they only see her as that rich man’s step-daughter.
In retaliation, InJae dangled that AI project by her father’s Morning Group. Dalmi took the bait and went back to the group.
Note: That’s another flaw in Dalmi. This sibling rivalry gets in the way of her decision-making process, but by the end of Episode 8, when she asked for her unnie’s help, she got a better handle on it.
(At 45:38) Dalmi proposed doing the AI project so they could earn money that would finance the business they really wanted to do: Dosan’s project.
Youngsan: How much are we going to make?
Dalmi: 50M won for just proposing a solution. And 300M won for building it. And if we manage it for them, we can expect at least a 1B won. Then we can easily hold out for three years, not just six months. And no more running around trying to secure funding.
Note 1: it’s the CEO’s job to secure funding. Fundraising is his task.
Note 2: Everybody looked iffy about this. They were really waiting for Dosan to make a decision.
Dosan said, “Alright, let’s do it.”
But deep inside, he wasn’t too happy about delaying his project. That’s why he was at the rooftop. And Dalmi apologized. They both knew his project/baby would cost money.
After the scene with the InJae’s stepdad, Dalmi changed her mind and greenlighted Dosan’s baby. That meant that she was going to have to look for funding.
In Episode 8, she briefed JP about their plans. She thought she could easily get funding through advertisement. But JP pointed out that her clients were vision-impaired. hahaha. JP was right. There’d be no advertisement because Samsan’s targeted users cannot see the ads. They can’t raise funds with ad revenues.
DAU = Daily Active Users
It’s good to have a lot of users. Because you can see if you’re doing well or not. And because you can get revenues from active users.
API = Application Programming Interface
Because they’re also using the YeongSil/Siri/Alexa, they need an API software app that would “interface” or connect the YeongSil voice app to their AI vision app. The cost of that interface is 4 won per 15 seconds.
So she calculated:
if one user uses service for 5 minutes a day, that would mean that they needed 23,200,000 won a year to pay API. Or 23M won.
She was banking on ads but JP pointed out that blind people can’t see ads (hahaha. I was laughing then).
So she said investors. And then JP told her the rates — and I like that he just rounded up the numbers.
If they have 1,000 daily users, it’ll cost 30 millions.
If they have 10,000 daily users, it’ll cost 300 million.
Obviously, the more users, the higher the cost. JP was right to ask “Who’d invest in this?” And WHY would they invest in it? It was just a one-way street of pouring money in, without getting money back.
So…we had two competing interests then.
On one side, there was Dosan and the guys. Samsan Tech would like people to avail of their app because it was a service that’s useful to the vision-impaired. The more downloads, the better. It meant that it was being used.
On the other side, there was Dalmi who couldn’t get any funding for their project.
It’s kinda like juggling balls. They have to be synchronized when they start juggling so nobody drops the ball. One is the CEO, the other is the CTO.
Dosan did his part on time. When Dalmi pitched her ideas to the potential investors, Dosan actually had a plan on how to achieve it and he completed his task on time. Dalmi on the other hand had no investors lined up. She was going to beg money from the InJae’s dad, but when she saw Dosan kneeling, she blew it.
And I thought that was neat. Dosan smashed the glass name plate because he was angry at how InJae’s Dad was belittling Dalmi. In turn, Dalmi “negotiated” because she was angry at the sight of Dosan begging. She was willing to beg herself — she had no pride, she said. But no way was she going to allow Dosan beg.
So the moral lesson here is that both of them were ready to fight in the other person’s place.
This is an open thread. That’s why I allowed your comment to go through.
You posted an opinion: “I feel like you guys are forgetting that he was an orphan who didn’t receive love or affection growing up.”
I rejected that. If you didn’t read my earlier posts, I was the first one who brought up his trust issues. It was my “First Impressions.” So if people read that, then they should be aware of this character’s handicap. I said Cyrano had a nose issue, while JP had a trust issue.
You posted an insinuation: “But guess only people who have the same perspective and ‘ship’ as you can comment on it?”
And I reject that, too. You don’t need to have the same perspective as mine EVER on this blog because goodness knows what my next perspective on things will be. If you notice, I think oddly, weirdly, differently from others….
That said, I do insist that “fangirling” be stopped on my blog because it’s tiresome for me. And what do I mean by fangirling? I gave ONE example of fangirling. I said, “All the main characters have issues. But excusing one of them, without doing the same thing for the others, is what silly fangirling is all about.” I also gave an example of the issues of the other main characters that we all had to deal with.
Now, if you find it hard to abide by my request, just shoot me an email and I can block your posts from now on. No hard feelings. 🙂
Did anyone thing Dal-mi was going to use the forgery detection software to compare the 2 writing samples in Ep8?
#packmule3 thanks for clarifying the scrunchie scene. There are a lot of internal monologues/thoughts in K dramas and the ability to distinguish the writer’s intentions is quite helpful. This is so unlike most American series that are pretty straightforward and don’t require such thought.
I’m also interested in the cultural differences that make K Dramas so interesting to me. Americans blurt.Koreans reflect. There is so much internal business going on in K Dramas, so I guess we you can say it’s a trope. And when the two present as in the scrunchie scene, it really helps to understand the intension and reality is. So troublemaker JYP was foiled by Dosan’s response. Woo hoo!
And what K dramas do with character’s inner life adds so much to the enjoyment. After all we see that what one thinks being put into action creates unforeseen consequences making for misunderstandings, plot twists and all manner if fun.
I am relieved that Grandma now knows that Dalmi knows about her vision be loss. Glad that wasn’t milked. And I like stepdad being foiled. K Dramas also use technology well-like the secretly turned in voice recorder on smart phones. All the better to sell Samsung(or name of your current product here-seems like Apple stuff is being played down now in favor of Korean manufacturers- The product placement in K dramas is a show into itself). Anyway, I’m rambling(too much stream if consciousness)-so to the point, I’m with you on JYP. But Grandma got the ball rolling and to use a knitting metaphor, her plot is unraveling, hopefully in the best way. Lol
She doesn’t really need the forgery detection software. 🙂
But mind you. She got the handwriting specimen but she also received the “feedback” from Grandma.
The “feedback” is going to be relevant because I believe that the letters were written by JP but were actually dictated by Grandma with a bit of edit by JP to make it sound “young.”
If I remember correctly, it was @ Old American Lady who brought it up. She said that the real Cyrano was Grandma because she was the one dictating those letters with love. Not JP.
Even the dad said so. The letter sounded like his mom. And the Grandma didn’t deny it when he went to her.
Ep 1 at 34:25
Dad: Thanks Mom. It really cheered up Dalmi.
Grandma: You could tell it was me?
Dad: Yes. Only I could tell.
Grandma: What about Dalmi? Did she fall for it?
Dad: (nodding)
Grandma: That’s a relief.
And JP told Dosan in Episode 3 (at 1:03:51), that he was fine keeping it a secret that he’d written those letters. “I want to, because I’m embarrassed I wrote them.”
He always blamed Grandma for making him write those letters for her.
Ep 1 58:13, he said, “you lured me into writing those stupid letters by calling me a good boy.”
Ep 2 12:02, Grandma said, “This is partly your fault, too. You raised her standards way too high with your letters. She thinks most guys are lame now.” He scoffed, “Grandma, you don’t remember? You wrote those letters with me. And you’re the one who started all this. I was only helping you.”
To me, the Grandma was the REAL author of the letters. It was her inspiration that created those letters. And the scene when she was writing the feedback after reading the bible passage emphasized that. She could express profound love for her granddaughter in a way that the young JP/fake Dosan could never understand since he never felt that sort of love in his life. Even now as an adult, he doesn’t understand love, right? So how could he have known about love when he was 18? 🙂
Think about that for a minute. If he supposedly doesn’t know how to express feelings verbally NOW, as an adult, because of a stunted emotional growth caused by his abandonment/trust issues, then how was he able to express those feelings in writing back then as an 18 year old teen?
Plus, we can’t forget that he went away without showing regret that he was ending the letters. He just upped and left when he thought his money had been stolen by Grandma.
The Grandma, based on this biblical passage, was the romantic writer of the letters to her granddaughter.
Although I can’t remember that passage, I knew where it came from. It was from the “Song of Solomon.” Some say it’s the most romantic book in the bible. It talks about the love and commitment of a married couple which mirror the love and commitment of God to His chosen people.
From the Catholic Bible:
13 The fig tree is forming its first figs and the blossoming vines give out their fragrance. Come then, my beloved, my lovely one, come.
14 ‘My dove, hiding in the clefts of the rock, in the coverts of the cliff, show me your face, let me hear your voice; for your voice is sweet and your face is lovely.’
Song of Solomon 2:13-14.
The man was calling his beloved to come out.
@JohnL I did. When I saw the handwriting data they used and I immediately thought about the letters, also wondering if we have seen Dosan write. (I have seen him type, mostly, if I didn’t remember wrongly)
@kaira, it is with tongue in cheek that I likened JP to the AI. He has feelings and heart for sure, just that probably with the trust issues it is easier for him to depend on processes that will produce results. But he isn’t without feelings because he was frequently moved by Grandma’s love, her love that does not ask for anything back, her love that showed him that the world is not as cruel as he deems.
If the letters were all grandma’s words but JP’s writing then in a way she was trying to show him a love he never experienced, to bring some heart in his life. What would he be like if not for grandma’s meddling?
Something about the bible verses brings to mind the use of senses: hearing, smell, sight. And the idea of hiding + showing your face alludes to revealing real oneself. Not sure how to connect this at this point.
We did see Do San write. It’s a swirly scrawl very different from JP’s – you see it in the wall of Sandbox goals in Ep. 3.
I disagree that JP didn’t write the letters. Might as well cue the villain music if he didn’t even write the letters that are the crux of the show
JiPyeong doesn’t always say what he means. His actions and his words contradict. His coworker says that at least twice. You see this most with DS, honestly. He’ll crap on Do San and spend hours teaching him etiquette and buying him clothes to look spiffy. He became SamSan’s mentor before Dal Mi was in the picture.
First up, he did recognize Dal Mi at Sandbox in Ep. 1. But he feigns not knowing her name in front of Grandma. When she puts the blame on him for increasing DM’s standards he has a flash of being secretly pleased (and why would she blame him if she wrote them?), but he fires back, deflecting that they wrote the letters together. I think she lets it drop because it was HER idea in the first place.
A spin. He spins people around a lot. When Dal Mi asks him in Ep. 3 why he’s in the fake SamSan office, he just asks her right back what *she’s* doing there.
But fair enough, we start with Do San being well and truly “made up” and “fake,” according to Grandma and JiPyeong. But the show has modified this assumption over and over throughout its run. It’s the same as when the show on occasion gives us glimpses into past events (like Dal Mi recording the meeting at JP’s prompting).
Straight from Grandma’s mouth in Ep. 3: When Dal Mi comes back from the party and says she met Do San, her Grandma replies, “which Do San?”
We’re no longer in “made up” discourse from Ep. 2. Not only is DS not fake, there’s two of them. Grandma admits that SHE sees JP as one of the DS. What do we make of this if she wrote the letters?
This keeps happening – we get to the birthday. JP, according to Grandma, is the “old Do San.” JP immediately gets her hint, because there’s truth to what she said.
JP is alone when he is writing the wish letter. Grandma isn’t there when he puts pen to paper – the room is small and we would have seen her. Dal Mi’s letter discusses Chuseok, which is 6 months out from spring. So the show gives us enough to infer that he solo wrote the letters for at least 6 months.
The inference is there that he wrote various letters himself. Even if you don’t credit the length of time and frequency, I don’t see how he didn’t write that specific letter himself.
Grandma didn’t remember JP’s birthday wish. The conversations from Ep. 4 and 5 supports that she NEVER knew about it. I imagine she would have acted on his wish way back when if she knew. She wouldn’t have sounded regretful at not having celebrated with him in Ep. 5.
In Ep. 7, Grandma asks, which Do San do you like, Dal Mi? Once again, for Grandma herself, JP = one of the DS. After hearing DM saying she might choose past DS, isn’t it likely Grandma would have shown a liiitle guilt if the letters were just her dictation?
My read on the “only I could tell” from Dal Mi’s dad was about closeness and familiarity. Dal Mi’s dad could see through the veneer because the first letter was *all* Grandma. That’s always been the case, we def saw her dictate that one nearly word for word.
That first letter is very important – it’s the one Dal Mi keeps going back to – and so is the fact that JP echoes Grandma. But the echo for me is important because it reveals closeness and familiarity – it reveals that JiPyeong is family. Grandma raised JiPyeong for a year.
The show hasn’t even scratched the surface of *that* little incident – how JiPyeong abandoned his family.
These are good points, @Sofrito.
Yes, I’m answering them on the blog. 🙂