I don’t know how fangirls define stalking in their fantasy world but stalking in my world must have all these three elements:
1. stalking conduct (which includes, but is not limited to following another person, calling or texting the other person on the phone, contacting the other person on social media, and waiting at the other person’s home or office),
2. stalking conduct happened at least twice,
3. intention to cause the other person to fear:
a. death
b. sexual assault
c. physical injury.
Now, both JP and Dosan have followed Dalmi, once.
The day after the fall-out, JP followed her to the restaurant during lunchtime.
It wasn’t by accident that he met her in the restaurant.
In the epilogue, he revealed his reason for following her to the restaurant. He said, “I had no idea I’d tell her I like her while mixing noodles. I pretended to be calm and cool, but on the inside, I was super nervous. You have no idea.”
There! In vino veritas. He intended to confess his feelings to her. He was only pretending that their meeting was accidental.
He continued to state his motive, “I want her to give me an honest answer.”
Sigh. What should we do this guy?!
He knew that Dalmi was depressed that day because her 15-year-old fairy tale world came crashing down. And yet… and yet… he went after her to burden her with his confession. He knew full-well that this confession would confuse her even more. But he just HAD TO IMPOSE on her because he couldn’t wait for an “honest answer.”
Then he said, “But part of me…part of me is scared. If she turns me down, it’s over. It’s all over. I’m scared.”
This tells me that he was lying through his teeth when he told her that he wasn’t expecting anything from her.
The Truth:
The Lie:
This was his confession during lunchtime. He said:
“I have feelings for you, Ms. Seo. I’m telling you this to be honest, not to make you uncomfortable. It’s just how I feel. I don’t expect an answer so don’t let it bother you. I don’t want us to end up avoiding each other because of this. That’s be pathetic. Dig in before the noodles get soggy.”
I bet that’s the reason he was drinking himself silly that night. He must have had an attack of conscience and realized that he shouldn’t have confessed because:
a. the timing was wrong, and
b. that she was under no condition to hear him talk about his feelings when her own feelings were hard enough to sort out.
He said, “I regret it. Maybe I shouldn’t have told her. Maybe I should have hidden my feelings until the end.”
lol. I do NOT think he should hide his feelings. That’s too extreme. However, I do think he should have chosen a better time, out of consideration for her. Sigh. If he loved her, he would have been more thoughtful of her state of mind. He should have been more patient.
source: life-by-mim
The shaman told him, “No, you would have regretted that, too. At least a little bit. There’s no point in regretting it now because there’s a reason for every choice. So just trust your choice. And when your trust falters like now, you get a little help from someone else.”
“Who?” he asked.
“Your ancestors.”
lol. The shaman was drumming up business of course. She’s a con artist like this “Victoria, the celestial lotus fairy” in “Zombie Detective.”
In contrast to JP, here are the actions of Dosan. He did three things that fangirls are denouncing as stalking.
This is not stalking.
He was a boyfriend who argued with his girlfriend. It was reasonable for him to wait outside her home and try to patch things up after their quarrel. When she told him, “Let’s not meet outside work for the time being,” he let her walk away and he took a different route. That was how he met Alex. He didn’t follow her.
Later that night, he followed her to the restaurant. Unlike JP, he did NOT follow her to confess his feelings to her. Instead, he followed her because he was concerned to see how miserable and dejected she looked. He felt guilty for his role in making her miserable.
He saw her at the bus stop. She didn’t get on her bus.
He waited outside the game room where she failed numerous tries at the Claw Machine.
Then, he followed her to the restaurant. He was going to show himself when the shaman appeared.
He scooted away, and listened in on the shaman.
The shaman is a con artist. She targeted people who looked depressed. When Dosan heard her persuading Dalmi to contact her ancestors (i.e., Dalmi would have to pay for contacting dead spirits), he barged in to rescue her.
But note here. At no point during his encounter with Dalmi, did she fear or feel apprehensive that he would kill, sexually assault, or physically harm her.
In fact, she looked happy and proud to introduce him as Nam DoSan.
And she rested her head on his shoulder.
Then, she was glad to be given a piggyback ride home.
So, I say that this is not stalking.
Last, this is not stalking either.
He was well within his rights to appear at her side because she was the CEO, and he was the CTO of their company. Dalmi needed him to prop her up and defend her against her sister’s attack.
Also note Dosan’s words to her when he finally had the chance to talk to her in private. This was the first time he’d spoken to her directly after she discovered all the lies.
Dosan: Do you remember the suit I wore to the networking party? I was going to wear that today.
Dalmi: Oh, that suit. You looked fabulous that day. Why didn’t you wear it?
Dosan: But that wasn’t me. Dalmi, I don’t want to confuse you anymore. So please forget everything you’ve known about me so far.
He was letting her go.
Dalmi: Forget everything I’ve known about you? What do you mean?
She wanted to know if that included ALL the moments or just some aspects of their relationship. Remember, she didn’t know which parts were real and which parts were pretense. To me, she was clinging onto hope that he’d been sincere in their relationship. But Dosan was suggesting a reboot of the whole system…errr…relationship because he thought it would be easier for Dalmi to handle a clean slate.
Dosan: I’ve never written letters to you. I’ve only known you for a few months. And this is how I dress. Playing Go-Stop was never my dream. My birthday isn’t May 7.
But thanks to JP, she also knew that Dosan didn’t do everything because he was asked to. She knew that Dosan went to networking party on his own, gave her his business card on his own, and asked her to be the CEO at Sand Box on his own.
Good job, JP! There’s still hope for your rehabilitation.
But to Dosan, sorting out who-did-what might cause Dalmi more heartache so he was suggesting a reset.
Dosan: (continuing) If you’re confused about your feelings for me, let’s pretend nothing happened. Let’s forget everything. I don’t want you to suffer because of that.
I like that his first and foremost concern was Dalmi’s emotional wellbeing. He was willing to let go of their memories of their time together if that would help her. Like these memories:
Dosan: But let me tell you one thing.
I like that he made her face him, and that she didn’t flinch.
This was hugely different from the scene when JP encouraged her before the Demo. JP couldn’t decide on a text message for her, so he chose to appear in front of the group of CEOs practicing for Demo Day. Since they were in a group setting, his words of encouragement were generic. I guess, there was safety in numbers.
JP told the group, “Forget about 2STO and global partners. Once you obsess over the scale, you’ll feel pressured. Just look for investors who agree with your business philosophy. Put aside all the pressure. Step on stage with confidence. Just show them how excited and enthusiastic you are now, and it’ll be a success. (looking at Dalmi) Don’t be intimidated.”
But his encouragement didn’t calm her down. The following day, she still felt dumb and incompetent.
In contrast, Dosan’s message was short and personal.
His words moved her because he was telling her what SHE needed to hear: that she wasn’t a fake.
After learning about the fake letters and the lies, she began doubting everything including herself; her self-confidence was shot. Hence, Dosan had to remind her what was real.
Dosan: Samsan Tech couldn’t have gotten here without you. It’s not fake. It’s a real achievement that you made. I’m confident of that. So never question it. (then Dalmi was called.) Dalmi. You can do this.
Dalmi: I can do this.
So there you go.
I hope fangirls realize that stalking is a real issue, and that when they bandy the word about carelessly, for the sake of fanwars, they undermine the work of anti-stalking advocates. Come on now, use better arguments.
Also, there’s enough material to discuss about this drama without engaging in these spurious claims. For instance, do we know why the title is called, “Demo Day”? lol. I think I already gave hints, so I’ll leave it to you to suggest other reasons.
Have fun!
Dear PM3, I have sent an email. Thank you.😊
I agree with everything you say. Plus in an episode called demo day where showing up is required I don’t think the writers was showing what the guys were doing as stalking but rather showing us how they were showing up for the girl whenshe’s hurt and lost
Here’s my demo day analysis I couldn’t find the right words so I’m sure you’ll find a better way to say it but I focused on showing what you have for investments
The person who Dalmi said she wanted to show up was Dosan, yes it was the version of her fantasy Dosan: the ideas she had about him; he’d still be a genius, rich. modest, successful etc. But it was still Dosan she wished for to show up when her world crumbled. With Jipyeong she realised he cared but she was bothered because she felt guilty and burdened by the fact that she was now into the other Dosan, that now she had her real Dosan revealed to her but he wasn’t the person she had started to invest her feelings in. Remember title is demo day, the boys are putting on a show for Dalmi’s investment, for her to promote them as her choice. Dosan feels like he has nothing to offer but his hands but he still shows her he cares, he advances (whilst people thought it was stalkery Jipyeong was doing the same but it isn’t about the stalking you need to focus on its about who’s showing up) he shows up when she’s drunk, he shows up in the morning straight away to see her after their fight, he shows up directly to her face, at the end to tell her to let go of her fears and trust in the company.
What he says about her being CEO is also about himself, its a metaphor, nothing about him was fake, she was right to trust and believe and be confident about their relationship. He was genuinely in love with her. JIpyeong also shows up sometimes, he shows up at the restaurant and admits to her how he feels but he still lags behind, he still avoids her directly, yeh he tried to be a mentor for the CEOs to see her and he did tell her to have her confidence and go on stage choose the right investors but it wasn’t showing up directly, it was again to everyone hidden as an advice, we might see what he’s doing but it wasn’t as obvious or direct and it didn’t have an effect on her sorry I just have to say it and it doesn’t still doesn’t do anything to help her confidence, he is helpful (the questions to help her feel confident but again its Dosan he gives that to not her directly do you see what I mean.) The only direct thing he did was tell her he likes her and that he went to see her in that far away town because he likes her. That’s nice and all but we saw more than one time when Dosan went to Dalmi directly. Jipyeong waited for opportunities to find a reason but Dosan forced opportunities to be there. And sadly the last time for him to show up (Plan B) is blocked by Dosans friends. And I feel bad for him because he’s waiting for an opportunity to show up for her, but he’s stopped and so he’s behind yet again.
But for Demo day just remember the person Dalmi said she wanted to see a show from was Dosan, he’s one she wanted to invest her feelings in, he’s the one she wanted to return back to (the moments she spent with him that day he showed up in the suit), its also Dosan who tries to put on another show (by running to go wear the suit when she’s drunk) he misses the opportunity but again he’s the one who’s showing/demoing his feelings for her the most. But also the person who we learn about his achievements; the origin, his opinions, his feelings is Dosan. He’s the one who we just watched the previous episode talk about his winnings. He felt like he had none but we know thats wrong. Alex shows up to show him he’s worth investing in. He’s the one who is being invested in for his qualities/ achievements in an episode called Demoday. That’s how I saw the metaphor for demo day.
I’m impressed with some of our lurkers. I’ll post their thoughts on why the episode is called “Demo Day.”
Just wait because I’ve to pull them up from my inbox.
Here’s @Diane’s comment. Thank you.
*****************
Yayyy! I was waiting for this post on Demo Day. I think the “2 Dosans” did their demo for Dalmi and obviously it was the real Dosan who will win or get the “investment”.
I couldn’t help it last night and was responding to several threads on Reddit, tweets and posts in FB explaining exactly what you just said above. I don’t understand why the fangirls are saying Dosan is creepy and is stalking Dalmi. *eyes rolling*. And the examples you gave is exactly what I was using for comparison. Even in the first few episodes he already stalked her (banging her head and him watching from afar and following her in the corndog stand). Yes he may have been the penpal and he may have felt that they go a long way but they haven’t really met in person. So that for me is creepier.
The contrast between HJP and DS on how they encouraged Dalmi is so obvious in this ep including the Plan B. Ohhh and I like that Dosan decided to not wear the suit for the big day as it was already smeared (ice cream scene). He decided to stop with all the lies and show the real Dosan (although he was showing this already in the past episodes and it is what made Dalmi love him) unlike JP who still lied and not yet ready to give his full trust and faith to Dalmi (which he claims he loves).
I still think Jipyeong needs a brother (Dosan) or family more than a GF.
This is @Ayet’s comment. Thank you.
***********************
Thanks for yet another wonderful read. There was even a thread of tweets about Dosan’s “socially unacceptable” actions. It included stalking and gaslighting. It was a pretty long thread. Didn’t read it all the way through though.
Anyway, about what you said at the end, I think “Demo Day” as the title for the episode could mean: showing or DEMOnstrating how JP and Dosan react or approach the situation they’re in?
Like the encouragement demonstrated by JP and Dosan. The former replaced the other person to do the orientation and deliver encouraging words to Dalmi (which was not enough/effective). Dosan encouraged Dalmi by listing the achievements she’s made etc. and that She wasn’t a fake. As you said, what Dalmi needed to hear. So my take here on the title “Demo Day” was how Dosan could be demonstrating how to encourage Dalmi. (Not saying JP’s was wrong. Dosan included factors that would actually boost her confidence.)
This is @JM’s comment. Thank you.
**********************
Wow! These are exactly my thoughts too after I finished the episode, especially the difference between DoSan’s and JiPyeong’s approach after Dalmi found out the truth. Putting myself as DM, I felt more sincerity from DS than JP. DS first and foremost apologized to DM (that scene T_T) but JP (i may have missed it) never apologized (instead made a confession). DM was soooooo confused, but JP chose to still add more confusion to her by confessing, while DS was willing to carry the pain and burden if he can; he didn’t impose that his feelings were real, like he was ready to be dumped by DM if that’s what will make her feel better.
I’m soft for JP loving grandma, but I don’t think he likes DM that much. I also think he was just jealous of DS, not cause he likes DM, but in general (more like pride/not to damage his superiority complex).
Besides the day being the actual Demo Day for them, the episode showed how these guys ‘pitched’ their real thoughts and feelings for DM, thus, Demo Day.
@Diane,
You’re absolutely right that JP was following her in Ep 1. That’s how he saw Grandma at her food truck. But I didn’t think it would be fair of me to bring it up since I was just discussing the actions that took place in this episode. But you’re right. 🙂
Try not to be a warrior on reddit, twitter and FB for your own peace of mind.
You got it, @Ayet.
The real people who were DEMO-ing in this episode were JP and Dosan. You see, I was wondering why the writer called it Demo Day when the actual Sand Box Demo Day wasn’t shown in this episode, but would be shown in the next episode. I concluded then that some other people were doing their “demo” or their sales pitch on why Dalmi should invest in them.
JP started with a confession at lunchtime.
Dosan started by waiting outside her house, but (using Chulsan and Youngsan’s soccer analogy), he received a “yellow card.”
JP’s encouraging talk (or the pitch) was generic, as I mentioned. He said all the right things; he hit all the right notes. But his speech was very suitable for the whole crowd. It was one-size-fits-all. It was obvious that his “pitch” didn’t work for Dalmi. His ending words were do not be intimidated but the following day, she still felt intimidated, and stupid and incompetent.
Note: he also borrowed clothes. He wasn’t the type to wear those team tshirts. He didn’t like them because he thought they were too tacky for a hotshot like him. But he grabbed his assistant’s tshirt because he wanted to FAKE being a mentor to these up-and-coming CEOs, and be close to Dalmi.
In contrast, Dalmi wanted Dosan to wear a suit because she remembered being wow-ed at the first sight of him at the networking party. But Dosan didn’t want to borrow clothes anymore. He wasn’t comfortable in those power suits. And he told her so. He didn’t want to play games anymore and be fake.
Dosan’s encouraging talk came in at the last minute. It was specific to one person who truly mattered, Dalmi. It was simple and direct, you could say it was “straight to the point,” but perhaps the better phrase is his pitch was “straight to the heart.” It moved her. She got her smile back. She regained her self-confidence. She got her fighting spirit back.
It was obvious that the writer set up the winner and the runner-up of this Demo Day very well.
I agree with you, @JM.
JP didn’t apologize for his part in the lies.
Dosan did.
He’d been apologizing since he ran to meet her at the bus stop. On his knees. Same thing when he appeared outside her house. He wanted to apologize. When he watched her from the bus stop, he was remorseful (hence, the tears) of the role he played in her misery.
His reply to InJae was his way of apologizing too. That was good actually. He made a PUBLIC confession of his mistake. Something JP couldn’t do, even in his text.
Dosan: (to Injae) Apologize to her. You did steal it.
Just like he stole the memories of Dalmi and her fictitious penpal when he went along with the deception plan of JP and Grandma.
Dosan: (continuing) You were so insignificant that you had to steal her memory. You’re not confident. And you put on a show to hide that. Isn’t this tiring? It must be.
lol. He could have been talking to a mirror!! He keenly felt what he saying to InJae because he was expressing his inner thoughts about himself. He felt so insignificant that he couldn’t tell her the truth that he wasn’t the letter-writing Dosan. He wasn’t confident. He agreed to put on a show with JP because he wasn’t confident about himself. He found it tiring.
InJae: What do you know?
Dosan: I know it well. I’ve done the same thing.
And that’s when Dalmi looked up at him. It dawned on her then that Dosan was talking about himself, too, that there was a double meaning to his statement.
Dosan looked down first before turning his eyes to her.
That was a PUBLIC confession. And by confession, I don’t mean a romantic confession like JP’s, but an admission of his guilt to both Injae and Dalmi.
As for JP’s confession, had there been no epilogue, then his speech at the restaurant was pretty convincing. It really sounded as if he had Dalmi’s interest at heart, and that the confession ACCIDENTALLY came out. But the fact that he planned this all along (i.e., follow her to make a confession) made him a despicable person.
Just like lying about the SCRUNCHIE made him a nasty person, similar to other second female leads in other kdramas.
It’s so easy to see the character’s duplicity if you aren’t blinded by this actor’s dimples and smiles.
I agree with everything that everyone is saying again. But Packmule how did you notice the clothing thing? I noticed the suit and I had this idea it was just a metaphor’/symbolism for Dosan in the future becoming her ideal guy. Because if you think about with clothing Dosan goes back and puts on ‘a costume for his show’ on episode about demoing feelings/and showing achievements. His costume I think is a symbolism for his role to Dalmi, despite the fact she didn’t get to see him run to her in it (the icecream and her not seeing it signifies that its not yet time for him to become this person) but what it represents is that the role he’s meant to play in her life is that guy in the suit: you get me? He’s already the real Nam Do San that was her fantasy Nam Do san, he has the same qualities despite it not being so, she wanted a guy from episode 1 that was modest, rich, successful but also there for her, and presence of joy and happiness, him in the suit is that version, and he will become even more of that version once he becomes successful under Alex: he’s going to become the very guy she though he was in episode 1, the very guy that Jipyeong was trying to help deceive her he was, the money, the clothes, the office, he now is going to have all that, and the suit.
For Jipyeong the outfit he put on is a mentor t-shirt. He also puts on a t-shirt to do a show of his feelings for Dalmi. Again life assigned him as Dosan and Dalmi’s mentor. That’s all he’s meant to be, he keeps crossing the line but he’s not the guy for her yet. He’s just an older brother, family member, a mentor to her like @Diane said. He’s not her ideal Dosan no matter how much people want to see him as that, Dalmi had a very very different idea to what she wanted Dosan to be, and Jipyeong is great but he wasn’t that, he didn’t fit that criteria apart from being rich, resourceful and smart with how he wrote the letters. But that’s because he’s rich, resourceful and smart to be a mentor not a love interest. And that’s it works for him more when he plays that role. It doesn’t work for him each time he tries to cross that line. It’s interesting and I’m so glad you made me see the clothing thing. This show just keeps on giving.
The costume for the show they wear is actually representing the role they are to Dalmi in the future and now.
Hello everyone! I’ve been lurking for a long time.
@packmule3 @BeingWritten
I do love the role that costuming plays in this episode (and the show as a whole).
Like how Dosan chooses to wear a jumper with ‘Libertad’ (freedom) written on it after he chooses not to wear the fancy suit on Demo Day. He’s finally freeing himself from everybody’s expectations of him.
I’ve always felt like Jipyeong’s real wish is to have a family, rather than to be with Dalmi.
I felt that really strongly when they all played Go Stop – that was probably Jipyeong’s first time in a familial environment.
At the end of the drama, I think that Jipyeong will have a family and Dosan will have Dalmi.
Oh you’re watching this too, hotatoes?
Thanks for pointing out that Dosan was wearing a sweater with “Libertad.” You made a good point there!
In my post, Team “Good Boy” or Team “Knitter/Geek,” I wrote this:
JP has a love/hate relationship with Grandma ever since Grandma took him in. She saw him at his weakest point. That’s why he resented Grandma calling him “Good Boy.” She was appealing to his better nature to BE good and to DO good, when deep down inside he feels rotten about himself. He’s internalized that he’s a bad sort of fellow because he was an orphan.
Why else would he be left at an orphanage? He wasn’t wanted by his own parents. So there must be something wrong and bad about him.
Then, in Ep 9 at the food truck confrontation, it seemed TO HIM that Grandma didn’t care for him, too. Or at least didn’t want him to be happy.
That’s why in Ep 10, during the encounter with Dalmi, he thought to himself, “I hoped she would notice and look at me one day, but not with those eyes.” — Hmmm, I’ve to finish my “To Be Fair…” post. I’ll explain this there.
🙂
@packmule I wouldn’t miss this show for the world. In my opinion, it’s everything that Record of Youth tried to be.
Re: our good boy Jipyeong –
I personally think he needs to have people like grandma, Dalmi and Dosan around him – people who are good to others and do their best, even when they suffer as a consequence. It brings out Jipyeong’s goodness, which I think he cast aside to survive the cruelties of the world.
Agree. It’s better than that snoozer, Record of Youth.
Am trying to finish a post on “Demo Day” before I head out.
Sunrise is at 6:55 am but I love to jog when the sun is rising and it’s freezing cold. There’s that *risk* of getting a frostbitten nose, but the air is invigorating. Just what I need before I go to work.
See y’all.
OK @packmule3, you’ve almost won me over to Team Do San with this post. Plus in the last episode I realized how hot-headed JP is. He still snarks whenever he thinks someone is slighting him or when he feels most vulnerable–even to the grandma, whom he supposedly loves. That is not good boyfriend material. Any arguments would end with his walking out until he cools down and not communicating his feelings. My problem with Do San is his toxic upbringing–so much expectation from his parents and guilt on his part. Before he would enter any kind of committed relationship, I’d encourage him to talk to a therapist. No girlfriend wants to be their boyfriend’s constant shrink.
As I outlined to somebody in another post, everybody has issues in this drama. Including Dalmi.
She needs to stop living in a dream world where she’s waiting to be saved by her fantasy guy. Calling Dosan her trophy was kinda 🤡 clownish but I gave her a pass because she was cute. 😈
Plus, I don’t want Suzy’s fans coming after me, too. I’ve enough trouble with fans of JP’s actor. 🤦♀️
Her sister InJae is right, too. Dalmi needs to grow up too. InJae has got it tough, too, but you don’t hear a peep from her. She just deals with problems. She’s cold and made a couple of wrong choices but she isn’t a lost cause yet.
[insert Meryl Streep clapping gif] bc that’s how I feel reading all your Start Up posts. As you can probably tell, I’m “rewatching” the series through your posts to prepare for the finale.
I absolutely loved everything you wrote in this post, and I agree. Something I wanted to mention though was the bible passage you chose in this post. I’m not familiar with the bible at all, so I also really appreciated your explanation in your previous post as well about the romantic passage that Yeongshil read out loud and how that connected with Dosan and Dalmi irl. I wouldn’t have caught that at all.
In this post you used the lines “love is patient, love is kind” to argue against JP’s actions in this ep. This week JP fangirls used the exact line and the passage that follows to describe Jipyeong’s love for Dalmi (while also talking down to Dosan and his feelings lol). That caught my eye here bc I thought it was interesting how this same passage was used in 2 opposite ways describing the same character. I won’t comment on my opinion of the fangirls and their claims lol but this was just something I noticed.
Loved all the theories in the comments as well and @hotatoes, “it’s everything Record of Youth tried to be” is EXACTLY how I’ve been feeling from the beginning of Start Up, nice to see others think this too!
About the shaman: this passage was funny because when I saw it, I imagined the dialogue like this:
– Hi! I’m the lead heroine of a previous drama by the screenwriter who writes yours. So you can trust me, I will help you solve your problem!