Part 1 is here: Start-Up: Ep 9 To Be Fair…
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Grandma worries about Dalmi’s unease. She told Grandma that she was scared to ask Dosan questions that weighed on her. Grandma knows that Dalmi was beginning to notice the differences between Dosan in the letters, and the Dosan she’s dating. Not to mention she already knows that JP’s handwriting matches the old Dosan’s handwriting in the letters.
JP: Are you worried about something?
Halmeoni: Hey, what brings you by?
JP: I’m here to return this.
He’s using the shirt as a pretext. I think he’s come to tell Grandma about his desire to reveal the truth to Dalmi.
In case you don’t know, his T-shirt and Dosan’s T-shirt were matching.
The character on his T-shirt is Go Kildong while Dosan’s T-shirt had Dooly the baby dinosaur. Dooly is popular children’s animation. According to wiki, Go Kildong is “an ordinary father in a family but comes to suffer troubles every day since Dooly came to his house. He always tries to kick Dooly and his friends from his house, in vain. So he really hates Dooly but always give a meal to him.”
So JP is similar to Go Kildong. Not only does JP pout like GKD, he also dislikes Dosan but has no choice but to help him.
Halmeoni: I told you to keep it.
JP: You know I don’t like to do that.
JP doesn’t like to be indebted to anybody. I think he doesn’t want to owe anybody anything because of one or more of the reasons:
a. he doesn’t want to be obligated to return the favor given to him
b. he’s learned since his days at the orphanage never to rely on people
c. he doesn’t want to be pitied by people who offered him help
JP: (continuing) It’s still bright and early. Why were you sighing nonstop?
Halmeoni: I’m just a little worried. Looks like Dalmi is suspicious.
JP: What? Of what?
Halmeoni: She’s suspicious of both you and Dosan. Gosh. What do we do? (JP doesn’t answer) Right! That letter! Maybe I should go find it.
JP: What letter?
Halmeoni: You know, she was looking for Dosan a while back to meet Injae. Don’t you remember the cherry tree in front of my old corn dog shop in Seonju? She said she left her letter there. I should find that letter and give it to Dosan. If he shows her the letter, she’ll stop doubting him, right?
Yes, the day she left the letter in the mailbox was significant day. That was the day when a gentle breeze dropped a cherry blossom petal on her head, and blew it across the city, to hover around JP and Grandma for a brief moment, and then blew it again to its final destination on Dosan’s head.
From Dalmi’s head to Dosan’s head. That’s the indisputable point-to-point connection here that many JP fans ignore. If that cherry blossom petal represents fate, then fate has spoken.
Fate chooses Dalmi and Dosan. JP is ONLY the intermediary agent along with Grandma.
That’s why it doesn’t bother me if Dosan leaves Dalmi to take up Alex’s offer to go to the US for three years. We’re about to have a time jump anyway in this kdrama.
When Dosan comes back from the US, JP won’t be able to hold a candle to him. Wealth, education, connections, Dosan will outclass JP in every single way… plus he’s the Living Buddha and he speaks Nerdy. lol.
So, yeah, separation?? Time jump? Bring it on.
JP: Seonju is far from here. That’s such a hassle. Gosh, forget it.
Halmeoni: Hey, I’ll be back in no time if I take the express bus.
JP: But why must you do that?
Halmeoni: This way, I can make sure both Dosan and Dalmi won’t be hurt.
She wants to maintain the prosocial lie. Remember, I said that a prosocial lie is to preserve harmony and good relationship.
JP: Then what about me?
Halmeoni: (confused) What about you?
JP: I don’t want you to do that. I don’t want to lie to her anymore.
I also said that prosocial liar has to balance two opposing virtues: honesty and kindness. The person says a the prosocial lie (or white lie as we often call it) because he deems showing kindness to be a more exigent need than showing honesty.
Here’s the link to the post on lies again:
Start-Up: Ep 6 On Lying, Part 1
However, in this scene, JP wants to speak the truth. He chooses to stop the lies even though he’ll hurt two people for his own interest. He fears that Dosan is winning over Dalmi’s heart, and he wants to put an end to that. To me, his decision is self-serving and self-seeking.
I told you how he was triggered. Here’s the link:
I pointed out that he wasn’t moved by the MEMORY of Dalmi’s beauty, Dalmi’s achievements, Dalmi’s cheekiness or Dalmi’s smile. Rather, he was goaded into action by his MEMORIES of Dosan with Dalmi, namely,
Dosan showing up at the networking party with Dalmi,
Dosan sharing a joke at the rooftop deck with Dalmi
Dosan earning a spot in Sand Box with Dalmi,
and Dosan going on a date with Grandma and Dalmi.
Although many viewers may not be able to distinguish between jealousy and envy, surely the Bitches here know the difference between love and envy. JP is envious of Dosan, that’s why HE keeps popping up in his memories.
Halmeoni: What are you talking about?
JP: I’m out. I’ll go tell Dalmi that Dosan is a fake and apologize for lying to her.
See what I mean?
His first thought is to expose Dosan as a fraud, then he’ll apologize for lying to Dalmi. For him, the order of business is:
1. Eliminate Dosan as a rival by calling him a fraud
2. Apologize for his role in the deception
But I say it should be the other way around. He should start from the beginning and:
1. Apologize for writing the fake letters on Grandma’s urging
2. Apologize for offering to pay 2M won to Dosan to deceive her
lol. Fans have a selective memory. From the beginning, if JP really wanted to, he could have stepped up to the plate, met up with Dalmi. and come clean with her that he was the one who wrote the letters. He didn’t need to involve Dosan at all. The deception would have stopped there if he would just own the letters.
Fact: he was embarrassed for his part in writing those letters.
There! Do you see it? He must first apologize for the fake letters and his deception, and then explain how he DRAGGED Dosan into this whole affair. He literally dragged Dosan into this mess.
While we’re on the subject of apologies, he should also apologize to Dosan for interfering in his fate. Did he just have a convenient amnesia? Dalmi found Dosan on her own.
How I can forget this awkward acting by Suzie?
Dalmi found Dosan on her own.
They already arranged to meet. Left alone, they would have cleared up the misunderstanding and sorted out their lives on their own.
But noooo, JP had to butt in. He was prejudiced against Dosan because he deemed Dosan a loser.
Fact: he interrupted Dosan’s and Dalmi’s fateful meeting.
Halmeoni: But you told me the other day that you didn’t want to disappoint her–
JP: Yes, that’s right. But I hate this even more.
Halmeoni: Jipyeong.
JP: I’m sorry, Halmoni. I lied to you that day. I actually have feelings for Dalmi.
“Feelings”? I don’t think it’s love, dude. Not at all. JP’s feelings don’t fit the description of love that I know.
source: letterpile.com
If I were Grandma, I’d be dismayed too.
And the thunder sounds in the distance. It begins to rain.
This is called a “pathetic fallacy.” Writers often use weather and the environment to indicate the mood of the characters. In this drama, whenever JP experiences a turbulent emotion, the storm occurs.
The storm comes whenever he’s possessed with jealousy and envy.
In Episode 1, he was staring at the TV when young Dosan was hugged by his parents. Dosan carried a poster that said, “Mathematical Olympiad Youngest Winner Nam DoSan.” So JP took out his own poster that said, “Virtual Investment Competition 1st Place” and stared at it.
He was comparing himself to Dosan and thought himself a loser. He was envious of Dosan. He then dumped his poster in the trash because it was nothing compared to what Dosan had. But it thundered and rained after that. He had no choice but to grab the poster again.
But what’s up with this guy?
Didn’t you notice a pattern of behavior here? Whenever he feels that life is unfair or he’s been rejected, he ditches the “symbols” or reminders of his misery. Like the plant.
Soon after, he regrets his actions. But as the Scam Artist in Red pointed out, he was the type to regret things anyway.
Then in Episode 6, he was introduced to Chunsan and Youngsan as their mentor. Chunsan openly wondered why Dalmi chose him, a local guy, when a global figure like Alex came all the way to see Dosan.
lol. That observation definitely pricked his ego. Again, he became jealous of Dosan. Who wouldn’t? Alex was headhunting him and Alex was the representative of an investment group that was ranked 7th largest in the world. JP is small fry compared to Alex.
Dosan then signaled to the guys to cut it out and reminded them that JP was like a “hyung” to them.
And JP bullied him in the guise of brotherly affection.
Do you see Dalmi’s smile? She was pleased with JP because she thought that JP was treating Donsan very well. She wasn’t pleased with him for being himself, but for what he could do for Donsan.
Outside, there was a flash of lightning and the boom of thunder.
And now in Episode 9, he’s envious of Dosan again. He’s angry that Dosan is getting Dalmi. And so it thundered and rained again.
If I were a JP fan, I would NOT interpret the thunderstorm as a sign of favor from the gods. The thunderstorm signals his jealousy and envy. Jealousy and envy are his primary emotions, and love is the secondary emotion. If love was his main concern, then Dalmi’s happiness would have been paramount. He would have been selfless.
Halmeoni: You can’t do this.
JP: Why can’t I?
Halmeoni: Must you ask? You know that Dalmi and Dosan are happy in their relationship.
JP: But I’m not. I keep thinking about her, I want her, and it feels so unfair.
Pay close attention to two things here.
1. Notice that he mentions fairness. It feels unfair for him because he thinks he’s owed something. Fairness is about proportionate calculation. You calculate exactly what a person deserved and earned according to the “investment” or “labor” he’d put in. In his mind, he deserved and earned Dalmi so it’s the height of unfairness that he doesn’t get her when he wants her so much.
2. Notice that he doesn’t mention Dalmi’s happiness. “I” keep thinking about her. “I” want her. He isn’t focused on Dalmi’s feelings.
Unlike Dosan, whose first thought was always Dalmi’s feelings. Remember, he didn’t need to go to the networking party. But he read Dalmi’s letters and he was moved to go to her and rescue her from humiliation. And in Episode 9, when he had that internal dialogue with Dalmi, he said he began lying because he wanted to see her smile, and he kept lying because he didn’t want to see her cry.
And that’s why Dosan is the male lead, and JP is the second lead. No writer would make the romantic hero be pro-ego and pro-fairness. We all know that:
1. love is putting the other person first, and
2. love can’t be forced to reciprocate feelings because of fairness.
JP: What the heck am I doing?
Halmeoni: Why didn’t you tell me back then? You can’t tell her now. You can’t do that to them.
JP: Why not? Why can’t it be me?
Halmeoni: Jipyeong.
JP: Yes, you’re right. This is wrong. None of this should’ve happened in the first place. I wish I had never met you. I was doing just fine. I didn’t lack anything. You got me with that nickname, Good Boy. And I got too nosy for my own good. I acted like an idiot, just like back then. (walks away)
Halmeoni: Jipyeong.
Again? Freaking again?
And now, he’s angry because it appears to him that he also lost Grandma to Dosan. Grandma has chosen Dosan’s side.
We’ve heard this before. He was furious when he thought Grandma gave his hard-earned money to her son. He accused Grandma of preying on him and “luring” him by calling him “Good Boy.”
But do you also see what he’s doing here?
He’s discarding his relationship with Grandma just like he discarded his poster and Dalmi’s plant.
Of course, he can’t physically dump her in the recycling bin. lol.
In all these times, he ends up regretting his actions and taking them back.
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Gotta run.
@packmule3, To be fair to Jipyeoung, he has the classic case of abandonment and all the psychological problems attached to it. He lacks trust, takes both offensive and defensive stances, is wary of relationships and doesn’t allow himself to firm close relationships. By his ownadmission, he has no friends. And even his personal AI assustant disappoints him. If he was allowed to be the prime make lead, realistically he would bring so much hurt and bad baggage to a relationship with Dalmi, that the work involved in maintaining the relationship would be so hard for her. He also has a mean steak as evidenced by his treatment of grandma when he thought she stole his money and by his treatment of our revenge San’s brother who commited suicide. I do not believe that his questions at the ill-fated demo day were constructive and perhaps they could have been soul destructive. If Dakmi was to do a profit cost analysis regarding a relationship eith him, the cost would be too high. He needs good psychotherapy to get to his issues because ultimstely he doesnot seem happy. If he superficially wants happiness for Dalmi, he needs to be happy first and he needs to be able to accept kindness.Apart from Dalmi’s sister, Jipyeoung has the most fatal flaws. He hasn’t even been able to see his shortcomings-and before one can accept help, one needs to be able to accept thst one needs it. Jyp also is quick to lay blame on others and cannot begin to see the possibilities of varied behaviors and motivations.
Oh the other hand Dosan is almost hypersensitive to his feelings and his perceived shortcomings. He beats himself up constantly and has an overly developed sense of guilt. He is very aware if his need to please his father. He has deep parental attachment and has the desire to be fillial. Therein lies his conflicts. Of course he beats himself up unneccesarily. He also is socially oblivious, but has strong friendships and is empathetic. Look at what he did for grandma. And most of all, he wants to truly make Dalmi happy. And Dosan listens to Dalmi-he hears her and feels her joy and her pain.
From the point of view of what has been presented so far, I believevthat Dosan will eventually win Dalmi’s heart. Albeit with bumps along the way and a sojourn in Silicon Valley.
Dalmi also has her work cut out for her. She needs to gain more confidrence, learn more business skills and navigate through the boobytrapoed waters created by her sister and her mother(who I still have issues with). I believe that if this scenario plays out, Dalmi and Dosan will be stronger and better for it.
Do you think he has a mean streak @Old American Lady? I was taken aback when he lashed out Granny when he was teenager after she took him in. He didn’t even apologize after he accused her.
I excused his behavior (didn’t we all?) as teenage rebellion and his “orphanage rage.” So fine….
But he did it again. In his mid30s. He has a vile temper. He’ll be a mess as a husband. I can already imagine the scenarios: 😂😂
Burn his dinner and he’ll start yelling “I WISH I DIDN’T MARRY YOU! You lured me with your Mac n cheese!”
Buy laundry detergent on regular price and he’ll freak out, “I SHOULDN’T HAVE MARRIED YOU! You lured me with your thriftiness.”
Bear him ugly children and he’ll blame you, “I WISH I DIDN’T MARRY YOU! You lured me by calling me ‘oppa!’”
This guy has issues. And if I were Granny, I wouldn’t be happy with him as an in-law. If he could yell at me, and I was the one who took him in and cared for him, what more could he do with Dalmi if he was angry?
Again, compare him to Dosan. She barely knew Dosan, but she entrusted him with a secret. She knew she was imposing on Dosan’s kindness but Dosan didn’t yell “I WISH I DIDN’T MEET YOU! WHAT ABOUT ME?
Dosan made the right decision NOT to keep it hidden from Dalmi. However, before he spilled the beans, he made the app for her. If I were the Grandma, I’d take it as a sign that he went as far as he could to honor my wish for privacy, but he also weighed my wish again Dalmi’s need to know. He just didn’t follow me blindly. He thought of Dalmi, too.
I know JP is the tsundere male. The one with issues. The one everyone feels “sorry” for. Because of his sob story. He seems to have issues with many many things. Question is. Does Dalmi want to live with that reality day in day out? Like you pointed out (@packmule3)? The figment becomes a distant memory very quickly when the reality sinks in? That’s why when my kids bring home their special someone, I watch them closely. Not just how they treat my kids but how they respond to others. Their family. Their friends. Their acquaintances. That determines the real person within – when their guard is down. When the glow of the honeymoon wears off, it’s the real person that emerges. So yeah, if I were Grandma, I would counsel Dalmi to pick DoSan for her sanity’s sake.
By the way, I found this interesting. 😀. Not sure if it adds anything to the conversation.
https://www.kstarlive.com/news/2020/11/11/netizens-swoon-after-knowing-that-character-names-in-ongoing-drama-start-up-are-actually-names-of-train-stations-in-korea-387810
@packmule3, exactly. He controls himself in business but I’m wouldn’t want to see him behind closed doors
And, gee,were it not for Grandma, he’d have been homeless,starved to death,. She helped him preserve and save his money. He owed her his life AND he was a stranger to her. Everything he so called did for Dalmi was nothing in comparison and at this stage of his life was easy to do for him with his jeans and connections.
I could also see him complaining about Dalmi’s taste in food, clothing and anything superficial
He’d probably want to change her to reflect his ego,aka Henry Huggins. Yuck!
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Prof Henry Higgins!!
We watched “My Fair Lady” and although we all loved the songs, my sons and their girlfriends had a lot to say about the Prof Higgins’ treatment of Eliza. They wished that Eliza had thrown the slipper harder and aimed for his head. lol.
I don’t get why being called “Good Boy” is such a sore spot for JP.
nrllee, it’s funny when we’re vetting characters like we’re vetting boyfriends/girlfriends/spouses for our children. 🙂 I mean, we’re not just looking at the lovey-dovey moments or physical/sexual attraction between the couple, but we’re looking at the suitability and viability of the fictional relationship in the real world. Is the kind of relationship being shown in the kdrama sustainable and commendable in real life?
It’s so obvious that JP has issues, and it’s already the 10th episode. I don’t see a believable change in his personality by Episode 16 to make him “worthy” of Dalmi. Not when there’s a better option Dosan out there.
I’ve seen tsundere. The lead in “Love Lasts Forever” started off as tsundere but every episode, the writer/director were able to peel off a layer and show that he’s actually a likeable guy. But with JP, his flaws are coming to the forefront as the story progresses.
And the writer/director are being tricky, because they use the epilogue to twist our original perception of the actions. For instance in Ep 10, JP’s confession. I really thought that he just happened to see Dalmi outside Sand Box, followed her to the restaurant because she looked morose, and joined her for lunch to cheer her up. I thought his confession was just accidental. He wanted to make her feel better so he spontaneously said that he liked her.
I didn’t expect to see in the Epilogue that his proposal was premeditated. lol. That changed the whole perspective then.
As for children, nrllee. Maybe it’ll get better as they grow older. Right now, YOU have to be “mindful” of these little things because they don’t yet think these things (e.g., interaction with family members) are important. With my sons, they’ve reached that stage wouldn’t introduce a girl who they know *I* wouldn’t approve of, or who wouldn’t fit in with the extended family, like their circle of cousins. (We’re a bit clannish.)
I’m not mean to the girlfriends but my son thinks that I get too attached to his girlfriends. He claims me that he dates only the girls I like.
@packmule3 good for you! You’ve trained them well. 😂
It’s about character. Is the person kind? Does his kindness extend beyond those he calls dear? Did his adversity make him a better man or did it make him worse off? So like you and many others here I am waiting to see (read) if JP has had his Jean Valjean moment. Did Grandma’s kindness and belief in his “goodness” change him for the better? It doesn’t sound like it? 🤔
I agree with these analyses of Jipyeong’s character. Love can conquer many things, but he had that from Grandma and he hasn’t improved. As others said, it probably wouldn’t be any different with Dalmi. Speaking as an onlooker to someone in RL who has similar issues, he could have years of counselling, but if he is unwilling to change, he never will have a healthy emotional life. I pity him, honestly.
I had hoped that he would be a Tendo-type character, but it isn’t happening. (I miss Tendo and Nanase.)
I still am waiting for Grandma and Dalmi to speak about the letters. It seems like the elephant in the room to me.
Same here, Fern. I miss Tendo and Nanase of “Love Lasts Forever.” And I like that we were able to see a tsundere character at work. It helps that:
A. the actor is a veteran, too, so he knows how to create nuances so he doesn’t come off as a jerk.
B. the director had input from his actors.
One of the lurkers (will edit this comment to look for her name) said that JP is tsundere, too. Yes. But this is the Lee MinHo/ Boys Over Flowers/ last decade version of tsundere. It’s outmoded.
Nowadays, it’s not cool to demean or denigrate people, esp subordinates/underlings in the workplace. The corporate culture of these startups, Silicon Valley tech firms, venture companies, are very egalitarian. You can see it: they don’t have offices, they don’t have cubicles, they have a general work table.
Casual clothes. First name basis. Striving for a work-life balance (but burn-out is a reality).
Food is free. You and your boss could be lining up for the same egg tart and coffee in the morning.
Btw, the kdrama only shows the pro, not the con side of having free food inside the building. The con side is you’re constantly at work. 😂 People don’t notice this. Instead of having an hourlong break for lunch to take a break, your lunch only takes 20 minutes (bec of convenience) and your back at your work table…working.
So JP’s style of management is actually anachronistic to me.
To all, Re:#Silicon Valley workplaces and workplacesvin K Dramas like Misaeng;Didbyou ever notice the proluferation of contract workers? Essentially, they are inly guaranteed wirk for a specified period, if they break any contract term, they’re out and probably don’t get severance and they’re at the mercy of corporate. And there are a lot of gig workers who have zero benefits and tonsbif costs-uber comes to mind. Also, the corporate culturd does not allow for free thinking-it’s cult-like. So all of the trappings of free foid and serviceslime manicures are almost a form of involuntary servitude (long hours, lots of oressure to conform,work during “vacations”, for example). So Jyp orobably would be a corporate enabler. I’m not saying that these Silicon Valkey corporations are all bad. But we have a family saying-If it’s too good to be true, it’s not. Also, to use an old adage-all that glitters is not gold.
On another topic, as Moms,we all want the best for our children. Whenit comes to girlfriends, I’m relieved that I haven’t jumped on the bandwagin for mysin’s “serious” girlfriends. Both turned out to have sugnificant Problems related to emotional compatibility that resulted in their breaking up. It took everything in our power to keep from interfering but we’re glad the break upscame intheir own time. We were just glad to be there to cyshionthe emotional impact. We parent, even when our kids become adults.