In my other post (link: Start-Up: Ep 12 On Maps, Letters, tre and Pride), I wrote that a lurker, @letsgetthisbread, wanted my opinion on Dosan being a “manipulative sadboy.”

I’m so happy I found this blog because I have been pretty annoyed by the comments in social media about the two guys. They’ve been calling dosan a “manipulative sadboy” (someone who guilts people into thinking he did nothing wrong/uses sadness to manipulate people) and I would like to get your opinion regarding this. Because I really don’t think he is but I am worried that maybe I am just unable to recognize such behavior because I’m really whipped for dosan right now haha. Thanks!

I replied that my short answer is no, but my long answer would be wayyyy longer as I’ve to look at ALL the instances when Dosan cried. 😈

I don’t want JP fangirls to think that I cherrypicked the scenes, so I attempted to find ALL the scenes with crying (and then some more) in order to invalidate their spurious claim. 😂😂😂 🦃

I’m better at nitpicking like JP.

I said I found:

two scenes from Episode 7: Burn Rate,
two scenes from Episode 8: Backup,
three from Episode 9: Risk,
two scenes from Episode 10: Demo Day, (I added one more so let’s make it three)
one scene from Episode 11: Exit, and
five scenes from Episode 12: Acquihiring

Remember this definition: a manipulative Sadboy is “someone who guilts people into thinking he did nothing wrong/uses sadness to manipulate people.”

I’ve heard of “soyboy,” but I’ve never heard of “sadboy” before.

Let’s go.

Episode 7: Burn Rate

1. At 6:01, Dosan became teary-eyed while listening to Grandma’s progressive vision loss.

Dosan: I’m guessing that Dalmi doesn’t know.
Grandma: Right, she doesn’t. So pretend you don’t know anything either.
Dosan: How can I do that? If she finds out later–
Grandma: She’ll probably cry and blame you for not telling her. She’ll cry and be resentful. Then, she’ll pity me, just like you’re doing now.
Dosan: Mrs. Choi, I’m just —
Grandma: I don’t like being looked at like that. It makes me feel as though something really bad has happened. As if the whole world will turn pitch black right this second, and my life will be completely destroyed. But you know that’s not going to help my eyes get better.

At this point, Dosan looked down, swallowed, and looked teary-eyed.

Question: Was he being manipulative sadboy here, “someone who guilts people into thinking he did nothing wrong/uses sadness to manipulate people.”

Answer: Nope. Grandma herself saw that he was a compassionate man, not manipulative. She could see pity in Dosan’s eyes and she wanted wanted none of that. She said so.

Grandma: I don’t want that pitiful gaze from anyone else. No more of that gaze.

So he bit his lower lip to stop himself from showing pity.

Grandma: (continuing) Thanks to you, Dalmi has been smiling a lot lately. Since the day she met you, she’s been going on about you every day. Her eyes sparkle like diamonds when she talks about you. I’m sure you know how pretty her eyes are when she smiles.
Dosan: (trying to control his sadness) Yes. Of course, I know.

Grandma: I owe it all to you, Dosan. Thanks to you, I can see those pretty eyes every single day. If I can see them for just a little longer, then even when I go blind, I’ll have no regrets. Can you please help me? Is it too inconsiderate of me to ask such a favor?
Dosan: (still trying to control his sadness because she said she didn’t want pity) No. Not at all.
Grandma: I’m counting on you. Don’t tell anyone.
Dosan: Okay.
Grandma: Don tell Dalmi or Jipyeong
Dosan: You mean, Mr. Han Jipyeong?
Grandma: Yes. That “Good Boy” will go on about his debt again and make a big fuss over it. Gosh, I’m so tired. (standing up to cook rice)
Dosan: (in a voiceover) The deep despair that I can’t even try to understand (meaning, the Grandma’s growing blindness). While watching her quietly embrace (the inevitably of her blindness) and accept it into her life, it became clear. The person who led me to a first love I didn’t even know existed… And the person who offered (JP) a kindness that could never be repaid… It was her. All these miracles began with her.

He calmed himself down because he didn’t want to cry.

Then he stood up and offered her a present. It was the cleaning sponges that he knitted for her.

Question: Was he a manipulative Sadboy, “someone who guilts people into thinking he did nothing wrong/uses sadness to manipulate people”?

Answer: No.

In fact, I’m obligated to point out something. This was Dosan’s first-time meeting Grandma, and he prepared a personal and PRACTICAL gift for her. Should I remind you what JP brought to Grandma after seeing her for the first-time in 15 years?

His business card. lol.

He had OVERNIGHT to get her a present from the store, but he came empty-handed. Then, he had the audacity to brag about his apartment and his car, and his salary. “Last year, my salary was 200 million, plus 1.5 billion in bonuses. And I made even more on the side.”

Question: Would it bankrupt him if he brought her a bouquet of flowers? I was shaking my head when all he offered her was a business card. Such thoughtfulness! /snark

Also important, if JP had been just a teeny-bit more focused on Grandma, he should have asked her if something was wrong with her eyesight.

2. At 1:07:01, Dosan apologized to Dalmi for losing control at Chairman Won’s office. He wasn’t crying here but he was certainly emotional.

Dosan: I really tried to suck it up and just do it, but I can’t do it. I’m sorry you gained an enemy because of me but this is so wrong. I’ll become more influential than Won Dujeong. A hundred million…You lost 100 million won because of me, so 200 million…No. I’ll bring you ten billion won. So forget about this project and –”

And then, she kissed him.

Question: Was he a manipulative sadboy in this instance, “someone who guilts people into thinking he did nothing wrong/uses sadness to manipulate people”?

Answer: No.

He wasn’t faking his apology to move her feelings and to solicit that kiss from her. He saw red when Chairman Won insulted Dalmi (just like he saw red when JP blamed Dalmi for not being competent enough as the engineers so she was fired by 2STO).

Episode 8: Backup

3. At 47:01, he rubbed his eyes on the way to the chicken restaurant. Chulsan shouted at him, “Why are you crying?” And he looked back to deny it.

Then, at the table, he was rubbing his eyes again. When Chulsan asked if he was crying, he replied that the beer tasted spicy that day.

Question: Was he being a manipulative Sadboy, “someone who guilts people into thinking he did nothing wrong/uses sadness to manipulate people”?

Answer: No.

He was probably feeling depressed like the rest of them that their app was gaining traction, but there was no point in “manipulating” people’s feelings here when they were ALL depressed anyway. Duh.

My take here is that Chulsan was projecting his sad feelings onto Dosan. Meaning, Chulsan wanted to cry himself so he was transferring this unacceptable “unmanly” behavior to Dosan and teasing Dosan about it.

4. At 1:15:12, Dosan was in his room, looking tearfully at Dalmi’s scrunchie.

Question: Was he being a manipulative sadboy, “someone who guilts people into thinking he did nothing wrong/uses sadness to manipulate people”?

Answer: No.

He was all alone so he couldn’t have been manipulating other people here. lol. But you know who was definitely manipulative in this episode? JP.  He used that scrunchie to MANIPULATE Dosan into believing that something was going on between him and Dalmi. That scrunchie incident makes JP a nasty and scheming second lead in dramas.

Episode 9: Risk

5. At 23:13, drunk Dosan was practicing how he was going to tell his father that Dalmi was the CEO. He shed tears.

Youngsan: What will you tell him?
Chulsan: You should rehearse what you’re going to say. We’ll help you.
Dosan: Okay. I’m sorry I lied to you, Dad. I’m not good enough to be a CEO, yet I acted like I was and fooled you for too long.
Chulsan: “I bet she lured you into handing over the CEO position to her.” What if he says that?
Dosan: No, Dad. I was always a good-for-nothing and bluffing about starting a business. I was wrong. I’m sorry I’m such a loser.
Youngsan: You’re being ridiculous. If you’re a loser, what are we? Shitheads?
Chulsan: My point exactly. You won a coding competition for god’s sake.
Dosan: (continuing to talk to an empty chair): But you know Dad, because I was wrong, I stumbled upon fireworks. I stumbled upon fireworks.

Chulsan: Fireworks? That’s so random.
Dosan: I made a wrong turn and stumbled upon fireworks, but it looked so cool.

And then, he imagined Dalmi sitting before him, and he imagined them crying together.

Dalmi: Why did you do it?
Dosan: I wonder why, too. Why did I do it?
Dalmi: Why did you lie?
Dosan: At first, I did it because I liked seeing you smile.
Dalmi: Then what about now?
Dosan: I didn’t want you to cry. I didn’t want you to cry like you’re doing now. This is crazy. What do I do?

Question: Was he being a manipulative sadboy, “someone who guilts people into thinking he did nothing wrong/uses sadness to manipulate people” during this encounter?

Answer: No.

For one, he was drinking with his buddies and they advised him to rehearse his lines for his dad. He couldn’t be manipulating his friends when they were prepping together for Dosan’s great scolding from his dad.

For another, his conversation with Dalmi was only in his head. To manipulate Dalmi, she had to be physically present. In fact, his private dialogue demonstrated his sincerity. He had no intention of lying to manipulate Dalmi’s feelings. He was lying for Dalmi’s sake — so she would smile and not cry.

6. At 55:01, Dosan and his father had the confrontation.

Dad: What’s wrong with you? I gave you money so you could start your business. Do you think I gave you my hard-earned money so some random girl could take over?
Dosan: I’m sorry, Dad.
Mom: Let go of him, honey. What are you doing? This is embarrassing.
Dad: Did that girl lure you into handing over the CEO title to her?
Dosan: No, Dad. She’s a lot more qualified for the title than I am. I’m really nothing, Dad. I’m a good-for-nothing bluffing about starting a business. I’m sorry.

I explained this already. He wasn’t bluffing about starting a business. He made several attempts to contact to JP’s company. When he couldn’t get JP to mentor them, he decided to enter Sand Box. Of course, as a software engineer, he doesn’t have the expertise to navigate the business side of the launching his product.

Question: Was he being a manipulative sadboy, “someone who guilts people into thinking he did nothing wrong/uses sadness to manipulate people” during this encounter?

Answer: No.

Because of his father’s high expectation of him, he’d conditioned to apologize to his father for being “unworthy.” This is not manipulation; it’s a trained reflex or conditioned response. He’d learned to think of himself as helpless because of the cheating incident 15 years ago. That awards ceremony stamped on his head that he couldn’t do anything right. Even if he answered 9 questions correctly, he wasn’t worthy of praise. That “one line” he glimpsed during the exam made him feel guilty about his genius.

That “cheating” scandal was similar to his CEO problem. He did 90% of the work. He signed up to join the Sand Box Hackathon. He re-configured the program. Alex was impressed with his solution and got him a coveted spot in Sand Box based on his reputation. Dosan did everything right. But because he chose Dalmi as CEO, he had to feel guilty about his “incompetence” in starting a business.

Dad: You’re not a good-for-nothing. You were the youngest person to win a gold medal at the Mathematical Olympiad.
Dosan: Dad. I cheated that day. I’m sorry.
Dad: What?
Dosan: A good-for-nothing has been acting like a genius. I’m sorry, Dad. I feel like I always disappoint you no matter how hard I try and how well I do. This has been killing me inside, Dad. I’m sorry. I’m sorry.

Question: Was he being a manipulative sadboy, “someone who guilts people into thinking he did nothing wrong/uses sadness to manipulate people” during this encounter?

Answer: No.

Just because he’s crying doesn’t make him a manipulator. Four things to consider.

One, if he was a manipulative sadboy, he wouldn’t have carried his sadness and his guilt ON HIS OWN for 15 years.
Two, if he was a manipulative sadboy, he would have doled out the guilt on his father a long time ago for treating him like a trophy, instead of a son.
Three, if he was a manipulative sadboy, he wouldn’t be apologizing profusely for finally coming clean about the incident and his feelings.
Four, if he was a manipulator sadboy, he would have claimed to be the victim instead of taking responsibility right away.

7. At 1:16:41, Dosan knew that the game was up.

Dosan: Hey, Dalmi. It’s me, Dosan.
Dalmi: Hey.
Dosan: Your Grandma said you took her phone. I kept calling you.
Dalmi: Dosan.
Dosan: Yes?
Dalmi: You know the place where we used to leave our letters 15 years ago? Remember that spot?
Dosan: What?
Dalmi: Where is it?
Dosan: Dalmi, that’s…
Dalmi: Answer my question. Please.
Dosan: Dalmi, where…(biting his lip)…where are you? I’ll come over now.
Dalmi: Why can’t you answer my question. And why is Mr. Han here, not you?
Dosan: (stunned) Dalmi. That’s…well… Hello? Dalmi?

He was panicking and became teary-eyed again.

Question: Was he being a manipulative sadboy, “someone who guilts people into thinking he did nothing wrong/uses sadness to manipulate people” during this encounter?

Answer: No.

In this scene, he was beyond sad. But he couldn’t be accused of manipulating Dalmi’s emotions with his tears, because she had already cut him off

a, physically — she turned off her phone, and
b. emotionally — she didn’t want to listen to him.

Episode 10: Demo Day

8. At 9:27, he met her at the bus depot. Before he approached her, he wiped his tears away so she wouldn’t see him cry.

Question: Was he being a manipulative Sadboy, “someone who guilts people into thinking he did nothing wrong/uses sadness to manipulate people” during this encounter?

Answer: No. If he wanted to manipulate her feelings, he would have wanted her to know that he’d been crying all the way to see her.

He knelt before her.

Dosan: Dalmi, stop crying. Please stop crying.

She looked wordlessly at her. And he started to cry in earnest.

Dosan: It was just for one day. I just wanted to make your dream come true for one day, and stop. But…that one day felt so nice that I missed my chance to stop. I kept putting it off until tomorrow and ended up wanting to go on as long as I could. Dalmi, I’m sorry, so please…
Dalmi: (pulling her hand away) You’re not supposed to say sorry. You’re supposed to say I’m mistaken. Say that you’re the Dosan I knew. Why are you saying you’re sorry? That means this was all a lie. That means all of this was fake.
Dosan: I’m sorry.
Dalmi: Was it fun? Watching me get excited over those fake letters like an idiot, then announce I’d start a company like you when I was obviously in over my head? Was it fun?
Dosan: It was painful. When you looked at me, when you smiled at me, when you encouraged me. Knowing that I didn’t fully deserve it tore me apart. I wanted to be the person you wanted. But I couldn’t and it was just so hard to bear.
Dalmi: The person I want? I don’t even know who that is.

Question: Was he being a manipulative sadboy, “someone who guilts people into thinking he did nothing wrong/uses sadness to manipulate people” during this encounter?

Answer: No.

He was undoubtedly sad; his tears prove it. But a manipulative sadboy, according to the definition, uses his sadness to manipulate people in believe he did nothing wrong.

Soooo… five points to remember here:

One, he was admitting that he did wrong. How could he be manipulating the truth, when he was speaking the truth?

Two, Dalmi didn’t want to hear what he was saying. She wanted to believe that she misunderstood the whole situation. But Dosan didn’t want to deny it so he apologized.

Three, when he apologized, he didn’t guilt-trip to forgive him.

Four, he didn’t blame JP for dragging him into this mess.

Last, she asked a question, “Was it fun?” and he answered her truthfully that it pained him that he couldn’t be the person she wanted. He didn’t volunteer this information to act like a martyr. He told her that it pained him to dispel her assumption that his deception had been fun for him.

9. At 52:31, Dosan spoke to his dad about starting a father-and-son relationship with him. There were no tears in this scene but it set up the tearful scene in Episode 11.

Dosan: You should go, Dad. Gout there and fight.
Dad: Forget it. I don’t even have energy to go.
Dosan: Do you think you’ll be getting in the way of my future if you fight?
Dad: (sighing)
Dosan: Dad. You’re not my pride.
Dad: Are you ashamed of me?
Dosan: And I don’t want to be your pride. It’s very tiring to live as someone’s pride and joy. You’re afraid of disappointing the person, so you pretend you’re strong and competent. Let’s not be each other’s pride and joy. Let’s just be father and son.

Question: Was he being a manipulative sadboy, “someone who guilts people into thinking he did nothing wrong/uses sadness to manipulate people” during this encounter?

Answer: No. He was speaking the truth. He wasn’t manipulating his dad’s feelings to guilt-trip him. He wasn’t accusing his dad of not loving him. He was pointing the better way for them to live together.

10. At 1:10:17, Dosan confronted Injae and told her to apologize to Dalmi. There weren’t any tears shed here, but this was an emotional scene.

Dosan: (to Injae) Apologize to her. You did steal it. You were so insignificant that you had to steal her memory. You’re not confident. And you put on a show to hide that. Isn’t this tiring? It must be.
InJae: What do you know?
Dosan: I know it well. I’ve done the same thing.

He meant that he too stole Dalmi’s precious memories of her penpal when he went along with the deception. He should have put an end to it earlier.

Question: Was he being a manipulative Sadboy, “someone who guilts people into thinking he did nothing wrong/uses sadness to manipulate people” during this encounter?

Answer: No.

He was using himself as an example. He was admitting to his guilt in order to make InJae see that apologizing to Dalmi was the right thing to do. As I said before, this was his public apology.

Episode 11: Exit

11. At 26:18, Dosan listened to his dad fight for his company threatened by InJae’s new technology.

Dad: … My son too has chosen the same path. If everyone in this world were like you and my son, this world would quickly become an innovative place. But it’s never good to move too fast. That speed can hurt many people. We’ll see a lot of people lose their jobs, unable to adapt to the changes. We need people like me to slow things down a little. To help find the right place that allows people to adjust and live. And to find that pace, I will continue to fight. My son has chosen a path that is different from mine. He has his own life, and so do I. My son will march forward to the future, and I will fight to protect my present. Somewhere between the two, we’ll find the ideal pace of innovation.

He stepped off the stage and approached Dosan, “See? You can look me in the eye. Why have you been avoiding me?”

Dosan had tears in his eyes during this moment.

Question: Was he being a manipulative sadboy, “someone who guilts people into thinking he did nothing wrong/uses sadness to manipulate people”?

Answer: No.

He had tears here because he understood what his father was saying, not because he wanted to gain sympathy from the audience or because he wanted to display that he was a good son.

Dosan teared up because he was emotionally empathetic to his dad’s concerns.

His father provided balance to their beliefs that technology could solve everything. His father reminded them that technology should also be heedful of its responsibilities to society and its impact on the common folks.

 

*******************************

More to follow later.

Episode 12: Acquihiring
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.

Question: Was he being a manipulative sadboy, “someone who guilts people into thinking he did nothing wrong/uses sadness to manipulate people” during this encounter?

Answer: No.