“If I told you once, I’ve told you a thousand times.”
If you’re one of my 10 followers, you know that I’m boringly repetitive. I often tell you that a good script pushes you to go deeper than the “feels” of the story. Responding to a kdrama at the “feels” level – like watching a Shakespearean play or Christopher “Batman” Nolan film “just” for entertainment — only scratches the surface. It’s superficial.
You can tell a good script when it engages you to find meaning not only through the scenes and dialogues of the show, but also through your own imagination and introspection. The scenes and dialogues carry their own subtexts, metaphors, as well as writer’s perspectives on life, that are often invisible to the naked eye. That’s why this blog breaks down dialogues and scenes; we all like to see what’s beneath the surface.
Bitches work their gray matters to make a connection. Sometimes, we can be provocative. Sometimes, we can be insightful. Sometimes, we can be silly (look up @agdr03’s corndog in “Do Do Sol Sol La La Sol”). Sometimes we can be off-tangent. Sometimes, we can be mathematical (refer to @JT7’s calculations for “The King: Eternal Monarch”). Sometimes we can be superstitious (check out @Growing_Beautifully’s compendium of Urban Legends). Sometimes we can be musical (listen to @Snow_Flower’s musical compositions inspired by “Psycho But It’s Okay.”) Sometimes we can just be shallow (have you visited our “Shallow Island” recently?).
Whatever it is, kdramas must MAKE SENSE to us in order for them to enrich our lives.
Moving on…
I’m traveling today so I’m posting my thoughts on “One Long Road” as I go along. Yes, it’s password protected because:
one, I’m updating it throughout the day, and I don’t want you reading it when it’s still unfinished.
two, if I leave it on a “draft” mode, I’ll forget about it. If it’s visible on the blog, however, I’m forced to finish it. It’s rather like a wrinkle on my face. When I see it, I’m annoyed enough to iron it out.
While I’m traveling, I have a request for you. Call it assignment if you wish, but I choose to call it “sharing.”
Please share one scene or one line (or two, I don’t mind) from the drama that you liked and tell us why you liked it. It could be as simple as Dosan trashing his baseball with “Follow your dream” or as long as, “I saw a huge rainbow. It looked as though it’d grant me any wish. Then, it suddenly hit me, it’s actually nice to wander aimlessly every once in a while. From time to time, it’d be wonderful to sail off without a map.”
Did it illuminate the character? Did it capture the theme of the story? How did it move you? What does it mean for YOU?
Don’t be shy. This isn’t graded so just have fun with it.
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Incoming!
Fern must have read my thoughts because she commented on another thread before I could post this one.
I was thinking the same as @John L. The scenes at the hut are probably my favourite so far. The tub of noodles as a wooing meal and a prospectus as a love letter.
DoSan was so angry and frustrated with her. I liked how the sound track changed from the cracklings of the flames to a piano solo that, although slightly melancholy, sounded like a sweet and delicate music box tune — exactly when Dalmi set the noodles next to DoSan.
I liked that Dalmi fell asleep sitting there upright, in her work clothes in the cold, as though her battery had depleted. It showed me that she hadn’t exaggerated her journey; she was as exhausted as he was. She had just declined DoSan’s suggestion to sleep inside because she knew he was pushing her away; she chose to stay where he was. The sleep also gave him an opportunity to look at her and speak his inner thoughts to her.
The music changed again to a vocal when he touched her hair. When he paused after opening the prospectus and drew her head to his shoulder, I thought that her persistence and ability to hear beyond his words had paid off.
I thought the direction of the scene was perfect. I loved the last shot of the hut and DoSan reading and the footbridge seen from the opposite side of the river. They came alone and hurting over the bridge separately but went back in the morning almost as a single person. The shot showing only DoSan’s legs walking across was a slight tease until the viewer sees Dalmi on his back.
That was lovely, Fern! Thank you.
Is it okay if I talk about two scenes, I know you said one but I feel weird not mentioning the other because they are both just so important to me. Both these scenes don’t really add much or are in-depth as other things in the show, but for me, I realised why I was so connected to this show to Dosan and to Dalmi’s journey. So my two scenes are the first one where we see the magazine with Dosan on it and Injae is looking at it in episode 14, and the second scenes are also in episode 13 when Injae and Dalmi open and take a picture for their new company named after their father.
It’s just so incredible the growth and inspiration I felt from these characters from seeing them feel like they’re worthless, being mistreated or overlooked or mocked, it feels so good to see them fulfil and reach their destiny (cringe I know) So I’m religious and I believe in God leading you to your purpose and where you’re meant to belong, guiding you and protecting you along the way. And I think Fate in the show is like what I see God as. It’s really powerful for me to see the growth that Dosan encountered despite the fact he still has some issues with self esteem, he’s just such an incredible character, so good and so inspirational with how his journey has been.
For me start up is like a journey to self discovery, self love and also self acceptance. Pushing hard for your dreams and fighting for them and starting all over again every time failure hits you. I don’t know maybe it’s just seeing Dosan in the magazine and thinking how he first saw JP in the magazine ‘the sherpa’ as someone prominent, and thinking about how JP told him he’d never be something just I don’t know fills me with this pride. I want to be like these characters, I want to have my own dreams, fight for them and get to my destination. I want to also find purpose. And I love how much Dosan was always chosen from the start because of his kind and selfless nature, it’s just a positive message overall and it does inspire me. Not sure if you’re understanding anything I’m saying.
For the sisters scene I mean they fulfilled their father’s legacy, they both created something he dreamt of and they both fulfilled his dreams and hope for the world, them and also for him. After all the hurt and abuse, and failure he encountered, it wasn’t for nothing because he had them to make it a reality. It’s nice to see the two sisters come together and also grow and become who they were meant to be?
This show is something interesting I wasn’t expecting it to leave me hopeful and it makes me want to do something and believe that if I keep pushing and working I’ll also overcome and reach my destination.
This is great, @BeingWritten! Thanks.
(Ill just edit it a bit and insert spaces between paragraphs so it’s easier to read. Wait a second…)
The scene where Dal Mi’s father was dying on the bus was the most profound for me. My heart broke for her and I couldn’t hold back my tears. Not only had she lost 2 of the most important people in her life on that day (albeit it’s a small blessing that she and grandma still had each others’ company), she never got to say goodbye to the person she loved most. There was so much hope for their future, so I really questioned why the father had to meet with such a terrible accident. And despite that, he persevered till his last breath. It reminded me of how easy one’s life can be turned upside down; the despair of families of Covid-19 patients who may never get to see their loved ones again once they get admitted into the hospital. I think so many of us are guilty of taking the people around us and day-to-day privileges for granted, but we shouldn’t want to live with regrets. The desire to see how Dal Mi was to overcome the tragedies in her life was what made me continue with the next episode.
I like the scenes in which Dosan acts decisively. He is not afraid to make the first step, but he is never aggressive or pushy. His appearance at the networking event at the end of Episode 1 was one such scene. I also like the scene in the next episode in which he figures out that interacting with Dalmi is like sailing without the map. He really is like Tarzan: aware of his limitations, but always learning.
Another lasting impression for me was the concept behind ‘Sandbox’. It’s so original and inspirational! I did a little bit of research but there doesn’t seem to be an establishment like this yet. But correct me if I’m wrong! I would love to see this show inspire an investors and VCs to start an organisation like Sandbox to guide people early in their careers on their journey of growth and self-discovery. Perhaps seeing Dal Mi (and now In Jae) live their father’s legacy somehow makes his passing less painful.
🙂 They’re called “incubators.” There’s an incubator for specific fields. There’s a start-up incubator for start-ups just like in the show.
IIRC, Google had a Google for Entrepreneurs a few years ago. I don’t know if they rebranded.
There’s even a legal incubator for lawyers who want to start their own practice in their local community,
a medical incubator for biotech, a kitchen incubator for people who want to enter the food industry, and so on.
I’ve been to a couple of those demos, not as a participant (obviously, lol). I found the energy to be vibrant, upbeat and dynamic and to be honest, overwhelming.
What a hard assignment. Can I give my top 3 because I can totally relate to these scenes/characters?
1. SST (all scenes) – I work in the IT industry (Hackathons and AI/Machine Learning are just some of the innovative things we do). I am a Delivery Lead/Project Manager and the role is like that of a CEO. Forming your team, making difficult decisions, committing mistakes, presenting to your Client, fixing bugs, etc. everything just resonated! And when they won during demo day, I remember how it feels to successfully present to the Client the output.. all the blood and tears, sleepless nights, and the bond that forms between the team members after going through the pains together are all worth it!
2. Jipyeong – While I hate all the petty scenes (scrunchy, the lies).. I will admit that I did those things may it be for work or love. We are all flawed but what matters is the self-awareness and commitment to address the flaws and become better versions of ourselves.
3. Dosan – Reminds me of my youth (wish I can be 20 something again). All those times he cried because of Dalmi, the jealousy, secretly watching the video, etc. we all went through that phase with our bf/gf/husband/wife. When you are in relationship, you allow yourself to be happy and to be hurt.. that’s the beauty of love!
Hi everyone. I haven’t had much time to comment on here due to work, but I’ve been lurking and following along in the dark 🙂
On the first episode, while I don’t recall the exact exchange, grandma tell HJP she’ll leave the keys to her shop hidden in the bird house so he can sleep warm at night. She had just encountered a wandering boy, who almost fell for a scam, and despite his bad manners and repeated refusal to her offer, she continued to offer him shelter. I think it’s, to me, a mirror of many times in life when just one act of kindness can change our paths. To him, it may just seem like one gesture he feels indebted to her for, but in retrospect, it may very well be the reason he’s made it to where he is now. Grandmas kind heart and selflessness is what we all dream of and think of when we think of our grandparents, who lived simpler times, had much less, yet gave so much more.
Grandma’s and HJP relationship was my absolute favorite to begin with (and then I fell in love with the SamSan Tech team).
My two favorite scenes involved Injae. One is where she’s by the church and helps Grandma pick up her visor and move her to the bench. Grandma’s vision is sodeterirated that she thinks Injae is a stranger. We see this scene in so many ways. Why is Injae by the church? Injae is not as cold and hard as we think. The young girl y Dalmie adored is somewhere in on there. There’s hope for her yet.
and the other is when she calls her lawyer to get get adoption negated. One camvirw it from a business pet perspective, but I see it from the human point of view. money, as said by the Beatles can’t buy her love. The cracks in Injae’s armor are coming and her reconciliation with her family of love is near
As someone who has experienced the loss of a in parent and grandparent who acted like a parent to me when I was a child, this resonates with me so much. There is a silent longing here
It was beautifully done without an overlay if bathos.
@packmule3,this was a wonderful assignment. Thank you
When DS shared his Math Olympiad cheating incident, a part of his narration struck me hard, “I used to solve that type of question very easily, but I struggled with it that day. At that moment, a gust of wind suddenly blew in from somewhere. And that one line from that solution caught my eye. I thought that wind was a blessing. But that one line… Because I saw that one line, I forgot the fact that I had solved nine questions on my own. The medal felt so heavy.”
Aside from personally relating to it, that part spoke and confirmed to me Dosan’s character in this whole drama. He is capable, hardworking, pure and sincere. He works hard for his family, SamSan Tech/his team, his friends and Dalmi. Yet all his good qualities were overshadowed by one lie. When that lie was paraded in the open, everything he did good was invalidated by mere spectators. He himself didn’t know what he was capable of, but that was his space for character development. To be honest, for me, that one lie was personified by Jipyeong. DS was overshadowed by JP from many spectators’ point of view. However, there are some people (like us I guess) who critically and deeply look into each character, scenes and developments. We still heard “I had solved nine questions on my own” loud and clear. That though there’s something blocking DS’s character, we still appreciate its beauty and its continuous growth/development. He is undoubtedly the male lead, whether he gets the girl or not will be revealed in the finale. One thing I’m sure of: with Dalmi being in love with Dosan, we’re definitely sharing her point of view of him “solving nine questions on his own”.
@packmule3 So interesting, thank you for letting me know about these “incubators”
@IcedFireAngel I too can’t get enough of the heartwarming scenes between JP and halmoni. The scene where JP realises her eyesight is deteriorating is really moving. Kim Hae Sook is a brilliant actress for bringing her co-stars into the scene in order to portray the characters in the most compelling way
First, thank you packmule3 for making this thread. As the final episodes coming, I am in the process of recalling about what I’ve been learned from this drama. I’m happy that I’ve learned a lot..
Second, it is so hard to pick just two scenes or lines.. haha, because I watched many heartwarming scenes, not only between the lover, but also between the family, friends or colleagues.
Okay, the first scene that I liked is the moment when Dosan read Dalmi’s letter before he decided to borrow a suit from his friend. I thought, why it has to be that letter that move Dosan’s heart so that he decided to come to the party and meet Dalmi. The letter is about Dalmi who worried so much to open the music box from his father. She’s afraid to be disappointed with the music or even if they don’t play music at all.
For me, this is resembling of two of main lessons that this drama give: to establish a start up business and to fall in love. There are risks in both of them. One even can bring someone to suicide. Of course we’re afraid to fail in both of them, because we’re just human and we don’t wanna be hurt. But, there is a moment in our live, a moment when our intuition talk to us to do it anyway. I think, I need to cherish more this kind of moments in my life. Because for me this moment is beautiful. When we are ready to be vulnerable. We have no idea about what we will get in the journey, we are not 100% sure whether we will success, or whether our relationship will work or not. But we still do it anyway because of our guts.
The second scene that I liked most is when Dosan’s father scrapbooking the news about AI business after he got mad to Dosan. I got teary eyed in this scene because I think it is what family usually do. Sometimes we fight to each other, but from time to time they are the ones that could give us strength, sometimes they are the only one who believe in us, even when we’re not really sure about ourselves. Family is indeed the angels that God create for us.
@packmule3, Incubators of the mechanical kind are also important in raising chickens and the mechanical kind are also used for premature babies to simulate conditions in the womb. The literal and figurative Incubators -lovely growing centers. Add some hothouses and you’re in business.
Packmule3, thank you for being the voice of reason that guided me through CLOY, The King and now Start Up. Your analyses have been my go to read before and after each episode and your case for Nam Do San has certainly won me over for him over Han Ji Pyeong – and I’ll explain why in a bit.
I’d first like to share my favourite two scenes:
1. Dal Mi’s last conversation with her Dad in the first episode easily set the tone for the entire show. It was beautifully written and so poignant and it can be said that the conversation defined Dal Mi as a character. Her father’s ‘journey’ for his Start Up was hard and tough and resulted in many cuts and bruises (literally), he was alone in pursuing his dream and had no support from his partner (i.e. Dal Mi’s mother). While her father did get an investment, it was too late and despite following his dream, it was ultimately left unfulfilled as the support he got came too late. Such is the tragedy of K-Drama but that is what spurred on Dal Mi to follow her dream like her father did.
2. Dal Mi’s conversation with Do San in the forest. Dal Mi’s journey for her Start Up was equally hard. Like her father, she suffered many literal cuts and bruises and she had to endure for 3 years without Do San. The difference here is that she has support from Do San. Unlike her father, she has a partner who is there for there in every sense of the word.
The duality of these two important conversations struck me and kudos to the writer/s for such excellent imagery between the two. Her father was left alone to die on the bus whilst the petals fell at night whereas Dal Mi was literally carried by Do San across the bridge in the the early hours of the morning. Whilst the father’s story literally ended, Dal Mi’s signaled the start of a new day.
As for why you made the case for Do San – admittedly, I was Team Han Ji Pyeong at first. I was emotionally invested in Good Boy’s story and felt like he was short changed in not having Dal Mi. But as the story progressed and because of your detailed write ups – I now see that Do San’s love is for Dal Mi is the kind that is mature, unselfish and every thing he has done for her has been in support of her dream. Do San is precious and must be protected at all costs. So Team Do San for the win!!!
My favorite scene is when DM gets the autographed BBall froand starts to say his dream, with my friends, I want to… His father then interrupts and has him change his dream. Chan Ho hears this and autographs a new ball with the message follow your dream, instead of follow the dream.
To me, the dream is success but his dream is people. And I don’t think anyone, even DM, understands this about him. So while I think he was hurt when she said he wasn’t DoSan from the letters I think he was crushed when she said she wasn’t his dream.
@packmule3
I was contemplating on which one scene to pick and I decided to go with the closing sequence on Episode 14 and the reason is mother knows best.
I’m still waiting for that piece of puzzle on what propelled DalMi to finally go after DoSan but DoSan’s mother is right how far is DalMi willing to go? How desperate is she to make the long difficult journey to reach DoSan? But when she said the last 30% is up to DoSan it got me thinking that this is what it comes down to, isn’t it? Taking each other hands and making the journey together. DoSan and DalMi reach that point of the journey battered, bruised even wounding each other but they came back from it as one, with a literal camera shot of DalMi on DoSan’s back, and what a gorgeous and dreamy scene. It sparks hope in me that coming to the finale everything will be alright for those two.
One of my personal favorite line in Start up would be Dalmi’s “I never regretted any of my choices in life – I did my best so I wouldn’t.”
This line was delivered from Dalmi in respone to JiPeong’s “You will regret your decisions if you choose me”.
This line summed up Dalmi’s attitude in life and it also echos her pride in her choice of staying with her father instead of going away with her then materilistic mom.
She believes in her choice and she tries her best to make it work although she stumbled a few times due to circumstances and it’s hard not to compare herself to her sister who choose to get a golden spoon.
This line hits me personally because I share similar sentiment. There is a paradox of choices where you often ends up wondering the other choice you didn’t make; about the what if possibilities. But in the end, your choice, your responsibility; you have to find ways to make it right.
@OldAmericanLady, I’ve two nephews who were preemies. 🙁 Thank goodness for the wonderful NICU nurses, and incubators and prayers.
But I didn’t know that baby chicks have incubators, too. I thought they just needed white light or something. Or did you mean incubators for the fertilized eggs? Where’s @nrllee, our homesteader? lol.
I give you my homemade incubator (yes I bought the fertile eggs off a breeder) – I don’t have a broody hen handy😂. Styrofoam box, incandescent light for heat, computer fan to circulate air, takeaway containers for water (humidity) and thermostat to control the heat (it needs to sit at 100F for 21days). Viewing chamber is a glass photo frame 😂. My very own “Start Up”.
https://i.ibb.co/KLM6Mp3/43-C06-FC4-4055-40-D1-B039-B1-C12-FF0-C5-FB.jpg
Pic of first chick hatched.
When packmule3 gave us this assignment, the first scene I visualized was the scene at the beach (in Episode 9), when Dosan takes Dalmi and the grandmother on a date. It’s visually beautiful—the sand has a pink glow and the fence across the bottom of the screen (seen only for a moment) transforms it into what looks like a beautiful painting. It also shows Dalmi’s joy (she runs around like a child) and her love for her grandmother (she runs up to her and takes her in her arms). But it also shows the grandmother’s practicality. While the young people want to enjoy the scenery–Dosan frames the scene with his hands like he is taking a photo, and rhapsodizes about the upcoming sunset–the grandmother states her desire for a hoe and rubber boots, so she can go dig up some clams.
While she is digging up clams, Dosan begs her to look up at the scenery, and the grandmother replies, “Beautiful my foot! It’s not like the scenery will give you food to eat!”
I’m not sure that this scene represents anything deep, or really pushes the story forward, but it’s like a literal breath of fresh air. Dosan and Dalmi are the dreamers, looking out at the ocean and the horizon, while the grandmother is ever practical and grounded. I commend the actress who plays that role–I really believed she is Dalmi’s grandmother because her affection for Dalmi seems so genuine and she exhibits such warmth and good humor.
Two character traits which make Nam Do San the person that he is, is his willingness to listen and ask – two simple traits which seem easy to do but in fact, not many are able to do as effectively as Dosan. Too many times, things are taken for granted and no effort is made to delve deeper to understand as their is no time or recourse to take the easier way out.
Dosan’s inquisitive mind combined with humility and considerate eagerness to learn from others makes his character a truly special one.
The scenes I appreciate and enjoy the most are therefore when Do San exhibits these traits, and I like that the writer reinforces one scene with another in different scenarios to highlight these traits of Dosan.
Listening :
Seeking out and encouraging Dal Mi at the hackathon to express her thoughts after Chulsan quickly told Dal mi they were too busy to listen to her suggestion as she was not a techie.
Listening to his parents on suiting up for his first day of work at Sandbox despite his reluctance to stand out.
Sitting down a distraught Chulsan when his company was subject to a ransomware attack as he had no where to run to amass the 100 million won ransom and listening to him to solve the problem focusing on what he can do and not what he can’t do (find money).
Listening to Yongsan’s “revenge” by proving they weren’t the failures others perceive them to be when YS was isolated as everyone is blaming YS for the 2STO contract fiasco.
Listening to Dalmi’s seemingly far fetched idea of a guide dog concept for Noongil when the others dismissed it as impossible.
Listening to JP’s advice despite the condescending and ruthless manner they were given.
Listening to Grandma when she requested to keep her condition a secret.
“Listening” to the letters Dalmi wrote on the music box and sailing off without a map.
“Listening” to Dalmi’s Elevator speech via the Tarzan Prospectus.
“Listening” to Dalmi’s wish in her reply to a feedback to give her loved one beautiful sceneries to witness and create memories from.
Listening and trusting his cousin for marketing and promotion matters despite his cousin’s wild ideas (with surprising results).
He is also not afraid to ask :
Asking Dalmi to be Samsan Tech’s CEO over a business proven Injae (preferring to recruit than be recruited).
Asking Chulsan and Yongsan for support and advice on how to deal with his father’s anger on his giving up the CEO position.
Asking his mom how to recognise signals that a girl likes him.
Asking his dad how to cross the professional line to “get” the CEO; and how to deal with a broken heart; and to just be simply father and son and not be each other’s pride to burden each other with expectations. (Wonderful change in his relationship with his parents after unburdening his “cheating” secret)
Asking Alex to take on the whole Samsan Tech team instead of just him. (While this seems to be Do San’s alternative to Plan B – it is not that; as Plan B only takes effect if SST fails whereas, Alex’s option only works if SST succeeds. Alex would have gone with the twins if Injae Co. won D-day.)
Asking Dalmi what she likes about him.
And Do San not only asks and listens, he carefully considers the information he gets and acts on them. He does not blindly listen and is quick to dispel wrong information as in the scene where he disseminates Lee Bo Young’s assertion that offering memorials to ancestors has a scientific basis. Dosan at full flight and power has never been more attractive as in this scene when Dalmi fittingly melts into his shoulder after proudly introducing him as “the” Nam Do San complete with adoring eyes and extended hands.
@nrllee an @packmule3, Yay-I love this Start Up-@nrllee, this is just plum wonderful and this city girl is thrilled to see new life! Does this mean that you are one of Bitches wise Ms. Yoons with @packmule3 being the other? Both in bringing literal and figurative life to us all in the By BOD incubator!
@BethB, I love Grandma and the actress playing her, Kim Hae-sook. when I saw her on the screen I thought-I know you-yoy’re Rosa from Hospital Playlist. Wow-how different can you get. That’s what a y actor can do.
I looked her up and found out, she is a multiple award winner who was named to the Nation’s Mother. One of my favorite things about K Dramas is that they’re multi-generational. Older people get meaty roles and are not put on ice floes
And Ms. Kim can continue to act and give us meaning, color and nuance for a long time.
Ok let’s try to name two. You have already mentioned many so I repeat one, explaining my reason:
The scene from episode 3 when DS understands the keyword of the letter “sailing without a map”.
Beyond the importance of this scene in the plot, what absolutely fascinates me is the expression of DS’s eyes and smile as he walks to dalmi. He laughs at himself, challenges himself, even he doesn’t think he can be up to her, but he throws himself in the situation. I think it is difficult for an ordinary person to have more than one or two moments like this in their life (it only happened to me once) because it is a feeling you get when you decide to go beyond your limits, no matter the price or the sacrifice, the only thing you have in mind at that moment is the prize/winning (to avoid attacks: I don’t mean that DM is a prize, I’m using a metaphor). I usually see these expressions during large sports competitions (Olympics, World Cups, etc.) and finding it in a drama with the acting of NJH was a big surprise.
The other scene is when DS immediately realizes the importance of grandma in his and others life. An extraordinary analytical skills. Maybe for us who are in front of the screen it seems like a trivial thing, but I doubt that I will have been able to understand I had been in the place of DS. This ability of his reinforces even more the importance of the first episode I mentioned. Setting sail without a map when you are used to always having the situation clear is beyond your limit. It will be one main challenge in his life 🙂
@Illusyn, what you wrote about ‘sailing without a map’ reminded me of Saha explaining to Chulsan why she agreed to join Samsan 3 years back; regarding Dalmi, ‘at least it wouldn’t be boring to work with her.’ DoSan at 2STO said he got bored doing corporate work. He missed the adrenaline rush of solving urgent problems and experiencing unusual situations. Both of those outlooks point back to Dalmi as an inspiring leader.
I’m thrilled to have discovered this blog when someone commented about it on a YouTube video related to StartUp. The discussions on YouTube are very engaging too. But this blog is very detailed and I like the explanations using dialogues and scenes (wideshots, symbolisms). It’s hard to focus on scenes when you have to read the subtitle so I don’t usually notice the symbolisms there.
As for me, I have always been on Team Do San and I have defended him on YouTube comment sections hehe.
I have always seen his good heart. And I love the fact that he fell in love with Dal Mi slowly and trying to prove his worth.
I gained a new perspective when I read your entry about Key Man about how Dal Mi sees Do San as Key Man.
Your entry on the ransomware attack episode where Dal Mi always saw Do San as someone more important was also a new perspective.
I agree with you that Dal Mi sees Ji Pyeong as only a mentor. And that Ji Pyeong only thinks about himself. Though I do empathize with him coz as an orphan, he only had himself – no mentor, no friend except grandma. Some YouTube commentors also said Ji Pyeong loves grandma more than Dal Mi. I think so too. So I never see why there are so many Ji Pyeong fans. I only see Ji Pyeong’s actions towards Dal Mi as his repayment to grandma.
Anyway, going back to the topic. I like Do San coz I too once worked as a software developer and I worked with guys like him who were shy yet talented coders. IT people are actually selfless in a way coz they work long hours and help each other to fix errors and stuff.
I can relate to Do San with his woes on parent’s pressure. I was accelerated once and my mom made a big deal out of it. So it gave me immense pressure to do well in life. I’m now a stay at home parent but my husband has helped me realize that “sailing without a map” idea. I used to plan out my life but now I just try to enjoy every moment especially ones with my child.
My two memorable scenes are:
1) When Do San said to his dad “Let’s not be each other’s pride. Let us just be father and son”.
As I’ve said above, my mom made a big deal of my achievement as a child. But it’s a hard thing for children to bear. So I try my best to not impose this on my child as well.
2) Mr. Nam (Do San’s dad) when he ambushed In Jae with a question. Then said “Don’t go at such a fast pace. Old people can’t keep up. Let’s find that ideal pace”
What makes Startup a good show is it updates the viewers too about AI.
It is actually alarming that there are predictions that AI will replace millions of jobs. Though new tech jobs will be created, the skilled workers do not match the demand.
Coming from an IT background, I still have a lot to learn. And it’s hard to keep up coz technology keeps changing every 2-3 years.
Dear Ladies (and Gentlemen), I stopped watching “Start-Up” since Episode 3 (regretfully). But I have followed your discussions.
The scene where Grandma and Main Lead talk and he discover that the true factory of miracles is not Sandbox but the heart of Grandma. For me this scene is a love letter for all generations that preceded us and fond a harsher world but made it better for all of us.
The father that slaved his life away in a job he didn’t like but still did his best to change his world to make it a better place for his daughters.
The Grandma that by doing a very humble and time consuming job to raise her son to be a good, responsible person.
It also made me think about people in East Asia that had a very rough 20th century, and had to transform wastelands into advanced societies by smarts and hard work… even grit.
Hope to read you all soon, and to be reunited with you again in another viewing.
Special thanks to @GB (happy to hear the kids you were preparing for First Communion did all well), @Pkml3 (our Master) and @Barbrey (haven’t read you in a long while, you OK?).
Miss you all.
@Pkml3, how do I get a password for the classified articles? =D
email me, @ FGB4877.
b3tchesoverdramas at gmail.com
Are you sure you want it, though? We’re just chattering.
Hi!! It’s my first time commenting here. Truly grateful to have come across this blog, It is such a nice escape from all the noise in social media and all the unjust accusations towards Dosan. It pains me to see the comments vilifying Dosan especially since he is a character whom I can relate to the most. Thinking about all the hate he has received was so unnerving and the fact that there was a point the word annoying comes next to his name when you search it. I see myself in Dosan and all the hate he receives feels like a personal attack against me, this is the first time I experienced being a keyboard warrior for a main lead. Jp’s fangirls move like a cult it’s scary.
Anyway, the scene/line that stuck with me is the one in episode 5, where Dalmi tells her grandma something that Dalmi’s dad has imparted: “That deserts would cover the entire world if it was sunny everyday. We need rain and snow for plants and delicious fruits like this tangerine to grow.” It was such a beautiful reminder about patience and that in life we will face hardships, there will be a time where our life will be on pause but these are all part of the journey that we need to take/experience in order for us to grow. Like the disbandment of samsan tech all of their worlds fell apart but it was something needed for them to experience because it is what pushed them to become better three years later. Now that we are down to the last two episodes, their season has finally come and I am excited with what they will achieve now as part of cheongmyeong company.
Am blown away by this thread. AThere are so many beautiful highlights and so much in depth commentary. It is a pleasure to see that we’re not centered on the romance, but on the myriad themes of this finely crafted drama. In addition to family, loyalty,perserverence,business , ethics, disruptions, etiquette, aging, we learn on so much detail how the tech world works. and that has been reflected in the commentary on this blog from day one. I think the fangirls miss so much by focusing on the first and second male leads. I also remember that when this drama started, there was a fangirl element hating on Suzy. Both of these “controversies” resulted in these viewers missing out on all of the rich detail of this drama. Too bad, it’s their loss.
I know, right, @ Old American Lady? We get so many different perspectives and highlights from different people. I’m moved by — ohmygoodness, I’m having a senioritis — by one of the new posters who said she felt pressured to do well because she was accelerated by one year in her studies. Her mother’s pride in her turned to a cross to bear.
Awareness of the problem is one way of breaking the cycle. I’m optimistic that her daughter will have a better experience because she’s learned from her mother’s fault and she seems determined not to repeat the mistake.
That’s one thing I wanted to tell her — if she’s still lurking her. Being “older” parents ourselves, Old American Lady, we know that most of us don’t really intend to hurt their children. I mean when we got pregnant, we didn’t have this “Ahhaaa! Let me think of ways to twist this child.” Most of us are just..how do you say this kindly? … out of our depths when we first became parents.
Raising kids don’t come with manuals. If there were manuals, I’m sure the conscientious parents and the intelligent parents among us would have turned out exemplary moms and dads.
But like all adults, we have our own personal struggles, personal issues and personal demons. And unfortunately, the children suffer because of us. 🙂
@packmule3, Your thoughts on parenting are so true. There’s no manual. We sometimes just muddle through.
You get lots of unsolicited advice. And every child is different-no cookie cutters. I have a particular hate when children are placed in formal and informal competition. It can be so damaging. As ND as you said, it was all about the mother’s pride and ego.
I could go on forever about my own parenting disasters but I’m happy to report none ever rise to the level of a children’s services report. So whew! Am grateful that our son grew up to be a good, caring person.
I haven’t watched all of the episodes of this limited drama, but episode 1 of Birthing Center will be quite familiar to us mom’s. I’ll probably watch the rest because the main protagonist is an older mom who works outside of the home. It’s on Viki and is worth watching just for the delivery. But to get back to the subject at hand, we mom’s are certainly expected to know it all from the get go.
@packmule I think your blog is quite like an incubator too. We’ve been able to “hatch” our ideas/opinions, and you’ve kept it a safe place for us to do it. Thank you for that!
I’ve just finished watching the first 2 episodes of Start Up. Have decided to be cautious about live-watching dramas after Roy and DDSSLLS. 😅 Going by all the insightful sharing in this post, it looks like the show is going to be a good one all the way!
Something that really made an impression on me from Ep 1-2 was a sequence of scenes, starting with the death of DM’s father, followed by the scenes of the cherry blossom petal floating in the breeze. I thought it was heartbreakingly beautiful that they set the scene of dad’s death on a bus (representing a journey), amidst the cherry blossoms raining their petals down (spring representing new beginnings like how dad finally gained an investor supporting his biz idea, and this is juxtaposed against the falling petals representing the fragility/transience of life).
They then used the petal rain to link up the next scenes after the time leap, when DM is grown up (it’s spring again, heralding more new opportunities, but it also means it is near dad’s death anniversary). We get the single petal floating from DM, past JP as he meets up with grandma, past the sleeping forms of CS and YS, and finally onto DS’s head as he works. The journey of that petal reminded me of Forrest Gump and that feather: “I don’t know if we each have a destiny, or if we’re all just floatin’ around accidental-like on a breeze, but I, I think maybe it’s both.” The petal is perhaps a foreshadowing of how all the characters would be undergoing a journey, filled with coincidences (like how DM happened to find DS through his baseball listing) mixed with choice/fate. It’s also pointing to how DS is the end game, since the petal floated past JP, nearly landed on him, but was blown away (by the winds of fate?) and finally landed on DS.
Guess it’s nothing insightful, but I found it beautiful and poignant that they linked all these disparate scenes together using cherry blossom petals.
Oh! I’m glad you’re here with us, @JT7! I miss you and your organizational skills. I still remember the “The King: Eternal Moment” timeflow chart.
If we want to brag, we can claim to be the first (others copied us) to actually calculate all of Lee Gon’s frozen times. That was classic. 😂😂
And Welmaris came up with Lee Gon’s genealogical chart or family tree. 😂
Yes. The dad’s death on the bus hit the right tone. (I’m beginning to like this actor, too. He does the sympathetic Ahjussi character well.) I like that he held on to that chicken till the very end of his life. That was Dalmi’s request.
Yes, right? That whole floating petal. But here, the petal actually went in SEARCH for him. It just didn’t happen to get there by luck or by chance. It was seeking him.
@JT7,your comments,observations are so beautifully stated. Am sending you heartfelt appreciation.What a wonderful start to the day. Thank you.
“Does my dream have to be success? Can’t it be a person?”
Dalmi was Dosan’s dream… It was okay for him to sail off without a map or even get lost with her becos she’s his direction n more. When Dalmi questioned the idea to make guide dogs talk, she inspired Dosan to write the app Noongil. She also proposed the concept of self-driving cars which he also worked on it even after they broke up n he left. She was his muse.
“I wanted to be your trophy, your pride and your dream. I wanted to be your comfort and your wings.” Dosan said,
“As the real me.”
N even without reciprocation he would continue loving… How sadly romantic it is. On the positive side, this is his channel to self-discovery as well as his dream.
@pm3 Thank you for these wonderful posts!
@Old American Lady 😘 Hats off to the director & writer! The episodes were so beautifully done.
@packmule: Awww those were good times. The King gave us so much to dissect, from poetry to math to science. I remember there was even character write-ups (spanning 2 long posts!) for all the characters, by @Welmaris, @GB and the others too? And even a party at the end with a keynote speech by @phoenix to crown Lee Gon as the best boyfriend. 😆
I like KJH too. Like you said, he does the ahjussi roles well. Dad’s death was so tragic yet so understated, no dramatic seizures or whatever. It was so sad that no one thought to help him because they just thought his slurred speech was him being drunk.
Anyway, happy watching the finale! Will see you around in the posts as I catch up. 🙂 Just curious, what will you be watching next?
I don’t know yet JT7 what I’ll be watching. Let me open a thread.
@JT7, There’s a lot out there but so far nothing seems to be holding a candle to all the quality dramas do far. I started Uncanny Counter for the supernatural fun of it, and I’ll probably watch Ji Chang Wook’s drama just to ogle Ji Chang Wook.I have Cheat On Me, If You Can on my list because I like the premise and I’m watching Birthcare Center because it only has 8 episodes but after watching the first episode, which I thoroughly related to, I’ll go the distance. So I’m all over the place. What will probably influence me most is what dramas are discussed on BoD. (As I’m fairly new to k dramas-about 1 and a half years in, I also am trying,time permitting to watch classics like Strong Woman Do Bong Soon and Hotel De Luna-can do this because I’m a hermit because if COVID, but once I’m back to my social life, family life, volunteer stuff, my watch time will be severely limited-so enjoying this while I can. These dramas have kept me safe and sane-a great distraction from our insane times). To all stay safe, be well and find some joy to get you through.
i’ve got five scenes which resonated the most:
1. rainy scene where teen ji pyeong was offered a place to stay by halmoni
this random act of kindness hits me, since nowadays, it is rare to find. mostly, we’re after what we can get than what we can give. halmoni’s innonence, selflessness, and her pure and big heart always gets me.
2. when young san handed do san a sticky note saying, “never let someone’s opinion become your reality”
it takes time to build someone’s confidence, but it can be shattered in an instant. at this point, do san was at an all time low, then ji pyeong’s honest yet harsh statement further lowered his confidence. the sticky note came handy this time. although it took do san years to gain his confidence back, this little nudge from a friend was a step forward.
also, with the advent of social media, we are always bombarded with comments left and right (both positive and negative) and these comments somewhat shape our actions, our minds. the sticky note is a perfect reminder to filter unneccesary noise, and stick to your core.
3. samsan tech’s lower accuracy rate at the demo day
this reminds me of a white sheet of paper. if they did decide to lie and raise the accuracy rate, they have stained the white paper with a black dot. given that the will eventually improve their rate, the paper has already been stained. the stain invalidates the whiteness of the paper, just as what do san said that the lie will invalidate the 92.4 percent accuracy they achieved.
4. park chan ho’s autograph from “follow the dream” to “follow your dream”
parents tend to steer the direction where their child/children is headed, leaving a little to no room for the child to explore what he/she really wants. so it was necessary that an external voice (the baseball) provide a reminder and an opportunity to follow what you want.
5. “with those hands alone, you beat our memories.”
this left a huge impact, for me. ji pyeong laid the foundations of his relationship with dal mi (the letters). i guess he thinks it was strong enough, but he failed to build on it. he failed to follow through, that is why do san easily crushed what he started. this was ji pyeong’s realization of his missed opportunities and regrets, in terms with dal mi, and at the same time, in his life. you don’t just rest on your laurels, you have to be consistent and persistent.
hello. i’m new to this page actually. it was nice to read all your post for start up! i came up with your post by just google-ing ‘review on start up’ bcoz i cannot stand the hate dosan gets by JP fangirls (i’m team geek!) and this was actually a blessing in disguise. i love your work very much!
and i’m called to write this comment as my support to you!
all scenes with dosan in it are my favs (obviously lol!) but there is one that i would like to speak about.
when dosan praises dalmi as a genius when she said that she wished guide dogs can speak. literally, we all have such unrealistic dreams. but they aren’t anybody telling us that we’re geniuses by letting them know such dreams. to have someone that is so capable, reliable and actually listens to you is such a treasure. and i really love how the writer makes dosan character so humane. we can actually grow with the him and dalmi, which i rarely found in dramas these days. i already repeating this drama for the 4th time, and i still feel the same as the first time i watched them. i truly too involved with this drama.
Hello BoD – I haven’t posted in a long time, but a few weeks ago I spotted PM3’s nomination of Dosan to join the Best Boyfriend Hall of Fame, so I immediately decided to watch Start-Up. After each episode or two, I would read the relevant posts/comments on BoD. Thanks so much for your great insights!
This post talks about scripts (PM3 says she ‘ships scripts’ – I had to search online to figure out what ’to ship’ means in today’s jargon – I’m still not sure I completely understand the term lol). I’ve been thinking about what makes a good script, and it seems to me that we’re actually talking about three things: plot, characters, dialogue.
Plot: does the drama have a storyline which is developed and interwoven from the first episode to the last? Is it ‘tight’ ie. does every scene contribute to the overall storyline or are there a lot of extraneous scenes or ‘drama bloat’? Is the plot compelling ie are you desperate to know what happens next? I think Start-Up has a tight plot although I didn’t find it as compelling as some others eg. Flower of Evil.
Characters: are the main characters simple (a ‘good’ or ‘bad’ person for example) or more complex (like most of us)? Is there ‘personal growth’ of these characters as a result of the situations they face through the plot? I think the main characters in Start-Up are pretty multi-dimensional and Dalmi and Dosan ‘develop’ and ‘grow’ through the story/plot but JP does not (or it is too little / too late). The kdrama Secret/Secret Love (2013) is the best I’ve seen for character development and showing how good people can do bad things when life (the plot) puts them in difficult situations (and likewise, how a bad character can redeem himself).
Dialogue: obviously you need the script to deliver good enough dialogue to create the plot and characters, but good acting and direction can make up for weak dialogue. I think Start-Up has some of the best dialogue writing I’ve come across. A kind of free verse ‘poetry’ in dialogue form. Interestingly, the drama I mentioned above (Secret/Secret Love) has relatively poor dialogue writing, but the overall plot, character development and superb acting more than made up for it.
I’m not sure where ‘meaningfulness’ comes into this framework – I agree with PM3 that truly great dramas, like great literature, provide us with profound insights into ourselves, human nature and the meaning of life. But there are excellent dramas, like Strong Woman Do Bong Soon, which is a highly entertaining spoof of almost every kdrama trope out there, which are not profound. Goblin is the only one that comes to mind as ‘profound’.
Hi Packmule3!
You really want to know everything!
But it’s so long to tell, how to satisfy your curiosity?
Get ready for a death text paving!
Already, but I’ve often said it, like you I often repeat myself.
I always watch a drama based on how I feel. The surface level. Just because if at this level I feel nothing, I don’t see the need to look at the script. But then again, 2001 A Space Odyssey is a film that transports me, so it depends on my tastes. But never mind, no matter how intellectually complex the script is, if it doesn’t hit the mark, the spectator (or a category of spectators), it’s missed.
As soon as the drama gets me excited, I get very curious (and so I come to your blog, lol!). I really want to know, woo, why was this script so good? Well, there are the elements you’re talking about, the metaphors, and I think the many interconnections. What makes the story a huge solid, ultra-structured block, where it’s clearly impossible for a human being alone to achieve that result. And I sincerely believe that the story builds itself, and is already structured, in a different dimension of the author’s psyche.
But even so, I find it really hard to penetrate the secret of the screenplays. Why can stories strike so hard, precise scenes? Because of the different meanings directed in the underground space of the script? There has to be a little bit of that, but not only that. Part of the mystery will always escape me. The sincerity of the author more likely. If the author fully lives the scene themselves as they write it, there’s a good chance that the emotion will be conveyed. Rather simple at heart.
I don’t think Nolan’s scripts are superficial. I mean, there’s probably not the heaps of human emotion that drama brings, but when it comes to scripting, it’s very good. It’s just another category of story. Any genre requires a good script, even the crudest blockbuster stories. It’s not any easier to reach the audience, from anywhere.
Let me get to the point, two scenes from the drama, with explanations of how and why.
The death of the father on the bus. End Episode 1.
The end of the scene in particular. Here I can say (partly) why this scene is strong. And even how it could have been even stronger.
Already the irony: a passenger thinks that the father is drunk.
This passenger is not forgotten and is used more than skillfully in the end of the scene.
He is the last other passenger to get out of the bus, looks at the father and says :
“This guy is going to end up at the last stop”.
So there, the second sense jumped in my face. The last stop… Death.
But that’s not all:
We then see the bus leaving in the night. And the father is the only passenger on board. The impression given is that there is not even a driver. This bus is like the boat that carries the soul of death on the styx. The bus to the afterlife. So it was a scene that touched the audience enormously, because of various slightly hidden elements.
Where the scene lacks impact: it takes place against the background of a syrupy teenage singer’s song. Serious mistake. The scene inspires a fantastic, mystical, unknown feeling. However, it is part of a canvas, with an unsuitable song, a montage. All this reduces the intensity a lot in my opinion.
Saha and Chunsan. Episode ?
A scene that I feel really strongly. It’s a bit as if my abdomen was suddenly burning in a tenth of a second. The magic of Park Hyu Rin.
Why does it work so well? First of all, because it must depend on me. I’ve never experienced exactly this situation, but maybe situations approaching it.
In terms of the script, the story offers us a little love story on the sidelines. The kind of thing that’s quite common in a lot of dramas. We could cut that if the drama was 12 hours instead of 22.
Moreover, this secondary story is so far told in the same way as all secondary stories of this genre. Comedy, awkwardness, stiff cold girl but funny. Most of the time, these stories are never treated seriously and remain a comedy mode until the end.
And then we come across this scene unexpectedly. All the senses of the scene fell on me at once, without needing to decipher. I do it anyway for the people the scene hasn’t reached.
Chunsan shows that he is not just a superficial guy, a bit heavy, insistent and clumsy. With a simple speech, just the truth of what he feels, he shows that his feelings are sincere. In fact, he does it better than any more confident man could have done. The power of sincerity, just tell with simple words, simple feeling. It’s a confession without being an official one.
And the script, the staging, the actress are well adjusted to the stage. We also understand in a flash that Saha, for the first time, is seriously considering this boy other than the rather silly surface she used to play with. One can say here that the secondary love story becomes instantly so real. What am I saying? It goes even further. This is the first time she meets and understands that a man sincerely loves her. It passes transparently over her face.
I, as a simple spectator, take all this flow of emotion in my face and guts. While this scene is disconnected from the rest, that it subsists autonomously, and that it is very short. The talent… The real talent. That’s why I came to watch this drama!
Nam Joo Hyuk.
Here, nothing to do with the script, except the actor’s ability to understand it.
So I repeat myself : I appreciate in a drama to witness an explosion of an actor’s or actress’s talent. Go Hyung Jung in Queen Seon Deok, Park Shin Hye in MoA, Lee Djong Wok in Hotel King, Lee Dae Hae in Miss Ripley, Kim Tae Hee in Jang Ok Jung, etc etc etc etc. As soon as that happens, you can say that whatever the script, the drama is a success, and I will have a lot of fun watching some scenes again. I am often more receptive to the talent of actresses (because they are pretty, or femme fatale, lol). Here, Nam Joo Hyuk carried the drama and made it so real in terms of emotions. I had already seen him in School2015, but the actress Kim So Hyun aspired to everything in this drama. Too much for me to notice the actor. In Start-Up, the actor’s performance is incredible, unexpected, vital. As for SML, I don’t like it so much, but when I think about it, it took a certain talent to embody a character that was deliberately dull and distressing.
“Big hands” versus “letters”
Do san’s “big hands” represent what Dal mi ultimately needs to blossom into the kind of person he wants to be. They are supportive and nurturing. They don’t “mentor” her and aren’t condescending or judgemental. They represent Do san’s “action”: they will protect Dal mi and fight for her, even if this is done in the clumsiest of ways… Do san is a doer, who will act upon his feelings without fear of losing. We love Dosan’s “big hands”.
Ji Pyeong’s “letters” represent both the power and the powerlessness of words. Words are academic. They can inspire us but they cannot love or protect us. They represent Ji Pyeong’s elegance of feeling and mind, but also his “inaction”: He gives advice, highlights errors, proposes solutions, but rarely gives direct, interpersonal comfort. He never takes risks either, and will only go for things when he knows he will win… This fear of failure stopped him from pursuing Dal mi and earning her heart. We feel very sorry for Ji Pyeong and his beautiful yet frozen-in-time “letters”.
Thanks for your comments, @ Gloria. Join us on our rewatch this Saturday?
@packmule3 I definitely will! Do you have a watch party set up? I have watched this very recently but I’d love to see with others 🙂