There’s a Hall of Fame. Then there’s also the Hall of Shame.
Here are some of the most egregious tweets that I’ve seen on Dosan. I won’t mention their twitter handles because I don’t want you searching for them and harassing them.
Seriously, don’t.
I’m posting them here so next time, you see tweets like these, you would know why these are wrong. Consider this as a public service announcement.
First Tweet.
I’m sorry but didn’t Dosan kiss touch and hug a dalmi while he knew she thought he was someone else? He knew he was a complete stranger to her yet he used her past to build a relationship with her? Hugging kissing all of that was shown between Dalmi and a stranger?
Apology accepted. I’m sure no harm was intended with the misrepresentation of facts.
Look: Dalmi hugged him first.
And he wasn’t expecting this.
And I checked. Dalmi initiated most of the intimate contact or “skinship.” Like the handholding on the bus, the celebratory hug when they got into Sand Box, the kiss on the rooftop, the kiss on his hand, the hug on the beach.
What was Dosan expected to do everytime she reached out for him? Kick her ass?
In fact the first time he touched Dalmi purely for skinship, he was self-conscious. It was after her pitch on Hackathon.
He saw her holding on to the wall so he ran to her out of concern.
The physical contact here is impersonal in the sense that anybody in the same situation would have done the same thing without giving the physical contact any deep meaning.
However, the next physical contact is the personal one. Anybody with unbiased eyes could tell by his hand hovering over her back that he hesitated. He was self-conscious. He wasn’t used to touching her.
But in the end, he decided to hold her to support her. She still seemed drained of energy and he was comforting her.
Then in Episode 7, he patted her hair affectionately.
That was fair because earlier in the evening, on their walk home, she told him that she was the majority shareholder of the company. She had 7 plus 64. She was the CEO with 71 percent equity. She then held him by shoulders saying, “You’re my share in the company. The one who is completely on my side. So we have to always be a team no matter what. Understood?” She gave his shoulder a shake.
So he returned her gesture later that evening. I already mentioned this here: Ep 15: MVP part 2
Instead of getting in JP’s car, he made a detour to talk to Dalmi. He told her, “Hey, I forgot to answer your question about the shares. You’re our CEO who holds 71 percent of the shares. I am part of your shares (he spotted the thread on Dalmi’s hair, and without pausing) and I got your back. And we’ll always be a team no matter what happens.
He then held Dalmi by the shoulders, like she did with him earlier, and said, “So trust me and don’t worry, okay?” Dalmi replied, “Okay.”
And he rubbed her hair affectionately while she smiled at him. This was the equivalent of Dalmi giving him a shake earlier. lol. She couldn’t reach for his head, obviously.
lol. Do you see Dalmi resisting him? Swatting his huge hands on her head? Kicking him in the groin?
Dalmi said, “Go home” and he replied, “All right. It’s chilly. Go back inside.”
He patted her shoulders, and she held his arms.
And then, he patted her on the shoulders again.
Now, if a JP fan is going to scream bloody murder because Dosan tucked Dalmi’s hair behind her ear while she slept in Episode 13, well Dalmi did something similar, too, in Episode 11.
SHE kissed him while he was sleeping. Remember this?
He tucked her hair back then, too.
Note: in case, people missed this. The black ink is significant here. They couldn’t wipe it off of each other’s faces.
And this was the same ink stain that he could no longer remove from the whiteboard in Episode 14. This meant that it was too late for them to erase their memories. They already left an indelible mark on each other and it was there to stay.
As far as I know, the first time Dosan truly initiated skinship on his own was when they kissed here.
To anybody who watched the show with open eyes, this accusation made by this JP fan is dumbfounding.
Second Tweet.
and so apparently majority of watchers perceive it wrong and misunderstood the story? lol so whos fault is it really that the story couldnt be potrayed as yall think it should? phr or the watchers? lol make it make senses
This tweet has no merits.
First, are JP fans the majority, or just the most obstreperous?
Second, prove it. To make a claim that they’re the majority, JP fans should show evidence that they are indeed a majority. And I don’t mean a Twitter poll or a Facebook poll or whatever they call it on social media.
Moreover, even if they were to prove that they’re a majority, this argument is still a logical fallacy. Why?
Third, Argumentum ad populum. Just because many say it is so, does NOT make it so. Even if everybody says that the sky is green, it’s not. Even if they think JP deserves Dalmi, he does not. Even if I were to agree with JP fans, they’d still be wrong.
Third Tweet.
Prior to watching the last week of #StartUp with a strong belief that JiDal will be the endgame, I was so ready to tweet “Well I guess the fortuneteller’s right” but SH*T WAS I WRONG. But up until today, I’m still in huge disbelief that Do San was able to beat the God of Fate. Woman facepalming
I called it. As soon as I saw that fake shaman, pretending to be the God of Fate, I said this:
Science and Engineer >>>> Shamanism, and con artist and “goddess”
and I wrote this:
So what if she’s a goddess?
I thought it was funny that if she was indeed the human representation of the samsin (or the triple deity), then she just met Dosan, THE GOD of the three mountains (Samsan meant three mountains), and he busted her for her scam.
Link: Demo Day, part 1
Come on now! Viewers can’t be this clueless as to miss what the writer was saying about shaman.
The shaman was a con artist. She was pitching her “ancestor-worship” business to Dalmi and JP. She was faking “compassion,” so they’d hire her to perform a ritual to call on their ancestors.
To Dalmi, she said, “The longer you remain unsure, the less confident you’ll feel. Make up your mind no matter how hard it is so that you can overcome it. You can do this…(Dalmi asked how, she said Dalmi could ask for help)…Your ancestors.”
To JP, she said, “…No, you would have regretted that, too. At least a little bit. There’s no point in regretting it now because there’s a reason for every choice. So just trust your choice. And when your trust falters like now, you get a little help from someone else…(JP asked who)… Your ancestors.”
“There’s a sucker born every minute.”
That conversation between JP and the fake shaman/goddess was important for these THREE reasons:
One, it showed the theme of JP’s life. He was doomed to REGRET a lot of things.
Two, he LIED to Dalmi when he said that he wasn’t expecting an answer from her.
Here are his own words: “I have feelings for you, Ms. Seo. I’m telling you this to be honest, not to make you uncomfortable. It’s just how I feel. I don’t expect an answer so don’t let it bother you. I don’t want us to end up avoiding each other because of this. That’s be pathetic. Dig in before the noodles get soggy.”
Loud and clear:
But this is what he told the Shaman:
Got that?
He admitted to the fake shaman that he lied. He had followed her to the restaurant so he could confess to her. He didn’t envision proposing to her over a bowl of noodles.
That’s because he probably imagined that he’d proposed in a fancier place.
And he was PRETENDING to be calm and collected because deep down inside he was nervous that she’d turn him down.
Goodness! Stop looking at his face, and start listening to his words. Here’s what he said:
JP: I had no idea I’d tell her I like her while mixing noodles. I pretended to be calm and cool, but on the inside I was super nervous. You have no idea. I want her to give me an honest answer. But part of me…part of me is scared. If she turns me down, it’s over. It’s all over. I’m scared….I regret it. Maybe I shouldn’t have told her. Maybe I should have hidden my feelings until the end.
Con Artist: No, you would have regretted that, too. At least a little bit. There’s no point in regretting it now because there’s a reason for every choice. So just trust your choice. And when your trust falters like now, you get a little help from someone else.
JP: Who?
Con Artist: Your ancestors.
See that? He was LYING that he wasn’t pressuring her for an answer.
Three, he had ZERO respect for Dalmi’s feelings. He knew she was upset and confused about all the lies, and yet he just had to go and DUMP his feelings for her on her…the day AFTER the discovery.
He was concerned about HIS feelings. He was scared that he’d be turned down.
What a douche.
He realized too late that he shouldn’t have told her about his feelings.
Right, JP!
He shouldn’t have told her because she was still stunned over the revelations. It wasn’t the right time.
I guess… JP fangirls didn’t read “Cyrano de Bergerac.”
Cyrano was told by Christian that Cyrano should go and reveal the whole truth about the letters to Roxane. Christian wanted Roxane to choose between the two of them: the real letter-writer Cyrano (who’s ugly) or the fake letter-writer Christian (and Roxane’s husband). But as Cyrano was getting ready to reveal his secret, they heard a gunshot.
It was Christian. He was shot by the enemy. At that exact moment, Cyrano knew he could never tell Roxane about his feelings. His fate was sealed.
Unlike JP, Cyrano could never dump his feelings on Roxane, at the moment of her grieving, AND at the expense of the dying Christian. It would be despicable of Cyrano if he did so.
But that’s what JP did in this episode. He continued with his pursuit of Dalmi and proposal to her. He BURDENED her with a confession, despite knowing that she was confused and hurting inside.
In contrast, look at what Dosan did. Dosan told her that if she was feeling uncomfortable with everything, they could start all over again. Whatever Dalmi wants, he’ll do it her way.
Fourth Tweet.
Rainbow.
There was another tweet about the rainbow. But I’ll get to that later. Have to run.
I love your defence of the Dodal couple…and especially the innocent Dosan. Do the JP fan girls still disturb you with their defences after your really clear arguments backed by real evidence from the drama?
I somehow get the vibe that the anti Dodal people are complaining about what they wish the drama would be like and what it should have been in their minds but not looking at what the drama actually is showing. I mean…if they skip so many scenes obviously they are missing out a lot isn’t it? 😛
Oh, this is a fun post! My head hurts everytime I read the arguments of the JP stans. Thank you for breaking them down so we can also see why none of it makes sense. Haha.
Honestly, I liked Jipyeong before and didn’t see him as despicable, but I lost complete respect for him when he confessed to Dalmi after the revelation. I was expecting him to apologise, but he confessed instead, with no apology whatsoever. I just stopped caring for him, and had to roll my eyes everytime fans shower him with praises.
@packmule3 Another wonderful post. There’s lots of delusions out there. The first tweeter seemed to want Dosan to be a pervert
That would assume some kind of sophistication
As we saw in the early episodes Dosan was kind of clueless and was being coached in dating behavior and how to make good impressions by “Good Boy” Jyp. The way Dosan was written, he’s inexperienced and quite literal. He’s also too shy to make moves on women. And before Jyp got hold of him, he had a goofy haircut. This tweeter didn’t even pay attention to what Jyp was trying to create it give Jyp credit for Dosan’s looks or some behaviors. I get wishful thinking, but this script was turned in episode 1-and even in that episode Jyp was not the epitome of virtue.
And that whole shaman thing was a hoot but served to reinforce character development. Dosan, ever the science,evidence based nerd, argued against the pseudo-magic. And Jyp almost used her as a psychiatrist/priest confessing to her. The contrast was so evident
And the drill humor if these encounters was apparent. So maybe out tweeters just do a superficial look at these scenes to cement their theories and to feel good. But I’d say they need the kid in the Emperor’s New Clothes to help them see reality.
Ooooh the classic tweets / posts. I can give you more if you want. LOL!!!!
“Apology accepted.”
“Goodness! Stop looking at his face, and start listening to his words.”
These two lines got me real bad, I can’t stop laughing. The second one rings true because I’ve heard real life friend actually saying it. When I talk about jp’s character they shut me down saying they don’t care about his character it’s forgivable if you just look at his smile and dimples *shudder*
Happy Hanukkah, @Old American Lady!!
🙂
Yes, the fake shaman scene was too funny. I couldn’t believe the JP fangirls fell for that. What the heck?! Did they actually believe that she was telling JP his future?
I’m sure as soon as she started talking about ancestor-worship, JP would have wisened up, too.
@packmule3,Thanks for the Happy Hanukkah-made lots of Latkes(potato pancakes). And for Christmas will do the old Jewish tradition-a movie(at home this year) and Chinese food-yum!
The shaman is a pretty common thing in Korea, my sister found that scene very funny because she recently watched a vlog exposing that kind of MO and the lines in the drama are almost the same as the one shown in the vlog.
Every time I read a JP fangirl tweet my head hurts. They are always out there vilifying Do San. It’s been a week but they are still spouting nonsense.
I actually came across with the first tweet lol. Do San stans came to defend however once again the JP stans kept coming and saying bs. The JP stans even had the audacity to say we don’t know what ‘consensual’ means. Each day my opinion of the JP fangirls gets worst. I even avoid looking/interacting with people who have his picture as an Icon. I hope one day they’ll reflect and realize how blinded they have been.
Oh no not the rainbow
Omg, I wouldn’t know that they take the Fake Shaman scene that serious. I mean I see that scene as a funny “satire” for people who still believe that MO. 😅
But my highlighted words would be:
“Goodness! Stop looking at the face and start listening to his words!”
This made me laugh (lol). Because I’ve been thinking if the actor who played JP is not him. Would the fans still be blinded like they were..
Im curious about what would they say about the rainbow, it was one of the pretty scene, why would they ruin that 🥺🥺
Hi packmule3. It’s 3santech again! This post is everything ❤ It’s sad these JP fans just. can’t. get. it. Really, must be the dimples 🙄
Anyway, I was looking back at some scenes and suddenly remembered something. I’m not sure if anyone here has pointed it out before.. Do you guys remember the part where Dalmi had to redo the shareholders’ list? In that list, Dosan’s real birthday which is 15 Aug 1989, was clearly shown (I have a screenshot of it). Maybe it’s just me but I thought it was significant.. however it seems like Dalmi didn’t notice it or she did but…? Idk haha. It’s weird. When I first saw that, some theories came to mind.. so far I haven’t seen anyone talking about this on twitter (yet).. I’m just wondering, what do you guys think about it? 😅
@3santech I saw that as well and it was pointed out in a lot of posts via Twitter and Reddit. I actually thought Dalmi already knew even before the reveal because of that and some other clues. However there was a scene where Jipyeong said his birthday is the same as Dosan. So I think that sort of cleared up whatever confusion Dalmi has when she saw the birthday in the stakeholders list.
I was trying to look for the rainbow comment again. 😂😂
If I remember correctly, it was something about the sky had no rainbow in Ep 12 when he was crying alone and there was a rainbow when he was with Dalmi in Ep 16.
I thought I took a screenshot. Lol.
Yes Aug 15 is his birthday.
It was one of those things — like the handwriting and Dosan’s request to her to forget the letters bec he couldn’t remember them — that was niggling at her and telling her that Dosan was NOT the letter-writer. However, she refused to consider to them because she was already in love with the real Dosan.
As we say around here, DENIAL is not only a river in Egypt (“The Nile”).
She told Grandma at the beach that there were things she wanted to ask Dosan but was afraid to. Grandma knew then that she was beginning to doubt Dosan’s identity. She wanted to squash all of Dalmi’s doubts by giving Dosan the last letter Dalmi placed in the mailbox.
But what theories surround his birthday? I don’t do Angel numbers. 😂🤪😈 I’m like Dosan that way. Don’t believe in psychics and astrology.
So the HJP fan girls believed in the shaman/ancestors lady? Oh my! That’s hilarious! This is what they get for skipping DoDal scenes. They should have seen Dosan squashed what the lady was saying.
Hi! I agree that by the time the truth about the letters were revealed, Dalmi’s “heart” had already made a choice though her “brain” wasn’t quite sure :). I thought her words to Dosan were telling when he apologized about it:
“You shouldn’t be saying sorry. You should say it’s a mistake, that you really wrote the letters.” – To me, this was her saying she wanted it to be him, because she really liked *him.* Like she told grandma, “I’m so happy it scares me.”
@3santech and @Diane: Cool catch regarding Dosan’s birthday on the shareholder’s list! That’s so much more convincing than the handwriting though…. Is it kind of a plot hole? 🙂
@packmule3: People also complain about “sailing without a map,” i.e. it’s a naive approach to business and “what the heck is this show teaching?!?” because they interpret it as having no plan :))). But it can mean more than that, so for me the quote is still cool. Especially with Dosan attaching “trailblazing” to its meaning. That really solidifies the meaning of the quote for me.
🙄 the sailing without a map
Is that Twitter “guru” STILL dissing the “sailing without a map” an Asian or American entrepreneur?
That’s the whole point of the book I mentioned earlier, the “Blue Ocean Strategy.” It’s written by 2 professors from INSEAD, not just a Twitter “guru.” By the way, INSEAD (Institut Européen d’Administration des Affaires) was founded by the “father of Venture Capitalism” himself, Georges Doriot. 😂
It’s one of the top MBA programs in the world, right along with Wharton, Harvard,
Stanford, Kellogg, Darden, Booth, Haas, Sloane. 🤦♀️
The book has been one of the most influential books for business and marketing for the last decade and a half.
Has this Twitter “guru” even read the book?
He/she should stop digging a hole already. 🤡
@packmule3
or read any book for that matter lol, it’s funny and sad when I saw all these social media influencer using StartUp as either marketing strategy or their so called “business lessons”. 🙄 Suddenly everyone become a startup business expert lol..
They present it so seriously that people are eating it up as gospel for example: touting jp as role model for mentor, how harsh words are necessary because it propelled you forward. And it’s better to have someone scold you than not doing anything and let you fall.
Yes the “sailing off without a map” is very controversial. Everyone is all of a sudden an expert on business management and calling out that Dosan was stupid for being arrogant, unrealistic and putting the company at risk. That DKDK YT video is getting a lot of traction as well because it was very anti-Dosan and of course getting all the “Likes” from Jipyeong fans. Oh well!
I see online wars now about True Beauty MLs being compared to Dosan. #Jipyeong fans that are fans of this new drama are defending the punching scene and saying that it can be excused bec they are highschool students vs Dosan who is an adult. Can’t comment much or relate because I have yet to start watching. But I saw it on my feed recently.
Not everyone can “sail off without a map” and be visionaries and trailblazers. We should admire and respect those who can do this and not vilify them. It’s not an easy thing to do and these people get a lot of crap and skepticism especially at the onset when they are still struggling.
The Audition song by Emma Stone in Lalaland reminds me so much of this. so bring on the rebels, the artists, the dreamers… ❤️ I love Lalaland because of this.
I’ve struggled with the fistfight between NDS and HJP. I felt like it was not necessary but I can see this is also part of Dosan’s growth and maturity to control his impulses. HJP did verbal abuse as well as physical with DS – like pushing him 2x before Dosan hit him. And the elevator chest shove after the time jump. Of course HJP can’t do no wrong in his fans’ eyes.
@Diane
Next they will blame DoSan for global warming 😑
StartUp according to writer-nim is coding youth romance not How to Start a Business 101 🤷🏻♀️
I want to share this relevant article that speaks to me what “sail without a map” really means.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/35-year-scientist-led-modernas-efforts-create-covid/story?id=74701220
In the article, the same arguments of HJP reverberated on the naysayers. And yet they did, that’s why they are trailblazers. And that’s why we have a vaccine for COVID from a non-big pharma. “However, the decision that Moderna was confronted with in early January — of whether to try to develop a vaccine against the rapidly spreading novel coronavirus — was a risk, directing valuable resources toward a viral threat that we didn’t yet know would blossom into a full-blown pandemic.”
#startuplessons ❤️
BTW, this lady named Hamilton rocks! She’s a Nam Dosan.
Thank you @janey for sharing this wonderful article. The world’s Dosans have made great discoveries in so many fields without benefit of guidines, maps and charts. And when there are breakthroughs the scientific method requires replication and further testing to confirm that the work is valid. Dosan subscribed to the method but also gives himself permission to dream and wonder. He is also aware that part of the process involved failure and mistakes. That makes him an honest man. He isn’t a cheater. Dalmi gets the man she can trust in the very honest, ethical, kind,deep feeling, Dosan.
@Janey
Agree with you not everyone can “sailing without a map” you need vision, skills and courage, and hard work to say the least. If they can’t see beyond the catchphrase most likely they don’t have it in them.
Thanks for sharing the article 😊
You’re welcome @ella and @old American lady! Happy to share. And happy to have found this community who appreciates Nam Dosan (and his kind in this world), his character and his growth story. Cheers!!!