Edited 2/17/2021.
I dropped this show because the writer and director don’t meet my standards. I don’t find anything funny about the:
a. drunken-woman/man trope,
b. the I-thought-I-had-sex-with-another-person switcheroo,
c. the erroneous belief that arousal and/or orgasm during rape is a sign of consent,
d. BongHwan’s sexual assault,
e. his gay panic,
f. rape as entertainment and romance arc.I dislike that the writer wanted to force a sexual relationship between the horny King and the unwilling BongHwan so he wrote BongHwan as being too drunk to know what he was doing. The writer also contrived to make both the King and Bonghwan blameless for the nonconsensual sex. The writer thought it was amusing to show BongHwan panicking the morning after when he discovered that he had sex with the King.
The writer and director don’t seem to get that this deliberate obfuscation between consensual and nonconsensual sex spread false ideas about rape (fake news!) which young and indiscriminate viewers will accept hook, line and sinker. Audience should know that when somebody’s too drunk to consent to sex, or when somebody’s deceived into having sex, it’s rape.
We should be able to spot when screenwriters use sexual assaults as a plot device to level up the relationship and intensify the drama between the couple. We shouldn’t fall for titillating scenes or be blind to the exploitation of these rape tropes for the sake of the romance arc.
I won’t give this kdrama more breathing space than it deserves in this blog.
The thread is now open for spoilers and mukbangs.
Mukbang is a weird phenomenon. It means “eating broadcast.” We’ve been watching the Grand Queen Dowager eat with great interest. Then, in the last episode, we saw the rest of the courtiers crunch, chew, slurp, chomp, gobble, lick, and munch their food. Oddly enough, these scenes bring us joy. We vicariously experience the characters’ eating pleasure through the visuals and sounds they make as they savor the meals. It’s like we fantasize being there and relishing the food, too. These mukbangs can be so hypnotic, so mesmerizing, and non-fattening.
Gifs from kdramadaily’s tumblr.
Let’s enjoy the show!
Is is just me?- I think her chef out fit really suits her.
King started to fall for the Queen. ✔️
Good for him then! As he should.
Queen (BH) started to fall for the King (?) meanwhile it seems like SY wouldn’t come back.
Am I the only one that hate it?
wow, what a reveal about the bomb. did not see that coming. Honestly, I thought it was Byeong In who planted the bomb because when he realized the King himself had tried to kill the Queen, he said he would kill the King.
Did my comment went through okay?
CJ planned his own assassination to take down the Kim clan *slow clap*
Now that he came on top, everyone is clamouring for SuBong’s head, the QD framed SuBong by hiding the ledger in SuBong’s room and the GQD thinks that SuBong is on CJ’s side. From the preview GQD and Minister Kim try to hurt SuBong to get to CJ in the next episode.
Brunch showed up this week. I like it when QD being a snob saying everyone know what brunch is and SuBong snorted because of her blatant lie.
The say SuYong jumped into the lake, Minister Kim told her to spy on CJ and she refused, SuYong was a chess piece he can’t controlled.
BI was outrightly rejected by SuBong but it only makes him more determined to take down the King.
Minister Kim was prominent in today’s episode and he seems to hold everyone’s card.
I took a peak at other sites & almost everybody is raving about SuBong & CJ finally sleeping together. However, I’m not so sure; the last few times SuBong woke up next to CJ wondering whether they had “done it”, CJ was just using that as an excuse to hide
1. He was sneaking out &raiding storehouses
2. checking if Subong talked in her sleep about overhearing his plans
3. looking for the ledger
This may just be a case of “keeping your enemies closer” to see how she plans to stab him in the back as she warned him while he was all bandaged up. since he planned the assassination, he was probably faking being deaf & heard her confession.
Well, we’ll find out for sure in the next few episodes.
I thought the King understood that the Queen made the banquet when he saw the name of the meals… He’s kinda slow. I guess he fell for her now.
The Queen is a mystery between So Young’s love for the King and Bong Hwan’s self interest, we never know what decision he/she will take.
I was sad for Kim Byeong-In, because we don’t really know why So Young loves the King except she saved him in the past, when he was here for her every time she needed. He saved the King too after all.
I haven’t watched the show so I’m reacting her blindly. (But then justice is blind, anyway.)
@Ella,
He planned his own assassination? 🥴 Not nice if he planned it in order to shift blame onto someone else. If tables were reversed, like the Queen Dowager Jo or HwaJin faked her assassination to get BongHwan jailed, then the audience would be up in arms.
That’s why Cheoljong and Prince YP couldn’t trust SoYoung’s suicide in the first place. He believed SoYoung wanted HwaJin implicated. And now, he turned around and did the very thing he found dishonest himself?
Interesting character.
@FantasyFan,
If Bnghwan and the King had sex, and BongHwan had no clue that sexual activity — from foreplay to penetration — happened, then the King committed sexual assault or RAPE.
Why the heck are these fangirls raving about this? 😖🤬
By definition, rape is a non-consensual sexual intercourse. A person who’s unconscious, intoxicated, drugged or sedated can’t give consent.
Let’s be clear here: if SoYoung or BongHwan or HwaJin or the concubines were to find themselves undressed and penetrated, and she/he had ZERO recollection of consenting to sex, then she/he was victimized. She/he was forced to have sex without her/his will.
And I wish this writer would stop NORMALIZING this crap as comedy or romance. I gave him a pass the first time this happened in the drama, but enough is enough.
The writer is doing his audience a disservice. Stupid kdrama viewers now view this “did-they-or-didn’t-they” mystery as titillating when in reality, a situation like this is downright horrifying.
Note: should this ever happen to anyone reading this, please protect yourself and seek medical treatment. You may also consider getting a sexual assault examination, talking to the police, getting legal help, and seeking support for your mental health and emotional well-being. Don’t feel ashamed. The person who assaulted you is the one to blame.
Instead of raising awareness, the writer is adding to the confusion when he uses non-consensual sex as a comedic plot device.
It’s never okay for the hero (or villain) to have sex with an unconscious hero/heroine. 🤦♀️
@Sayaris,
Please don’t have a second male syndrome for ByeongIn. 🙂 He’s batting for Team SoYoung all the way, but he can’t have her.
Oh I already know that the SL has no chance. At least, the Queen was honest with him 🙂
@packmule3
I saw spoiler from today’s episode and yup it happened, tbh I don’t know why the writer go there and I don’t feel good about it. I have to see the subbed later to understand more what’s going on *face palm* I’ll report back tomorrow with the update.
CJ is not above using people to achieve his goals but I did not expect he planned his own assassination because of his reaction after the explosion went off. You’re right in plotting to defeat the Kim clan he himself became like them using manipulative underhanded tactics.
👍 Thanks for the heads-up. I’ll watch the two episodes on Monday back-to-back.
If you like the actor, I think he has another mini-drama on Netflix. It’s called “Spark”. I haven’t watched it so please tell me if it’s a 👍 or a 👎 . I was looking through the kdramas available on Netflix when it popped up.
Whoops, I meant my previous comment for Sayaris.
@Ella
I think the female kdrama screenwriters, like the Hong sisters, the CLOY writer, and Start Up’s Park HyeRyun, are more aware of these “issues” than the male kdrama writers.
(We all noticed that, in Start Up, Dosan didn’t initiate the kisses, except for the last one. Dalmi started the physical contact.)
As long as we’re “consuming” these kdramas, we should be aware of what’s being passed off as acceptable sexual norms. We can call out the egregious behaviors.
For instance, many of us now regard angry kisses and “forced kisses” as unacceptable in kdramas. But I remember when I had to point out to fangirls at soompi that just because forced kisses are a common occurrence in kdramas does NOT make it right. It’s still wrong even if Lee MinHo or Hyun Bin or name-your-latest-hottie does it.
Writers should do better. They must. They’re sending the wrong message to impressionable (and unreasoning) viewers, and now that Kdrama has become international, the writers are also purveying their moral and sexual views to the world for acceptance and normalization. They’re “influencers.” 🙃
I don’t get the ice cube poison theory? If the ice cube is poisonous..when it’s mixed with the beverage & melts .. don’t the beverage instantly become poisonous? But how come court lady Choi & BH is fine after drinking it?
After BH & the king make love .. there’s a butterfly sign..does anyone know what’s does the butterfly sign indicates?
I just watched the 13th episode. But why do I feel disappointed in a way. I’m not sure whether it is because the king himself that plotting his assassination to get Kim Jwagun out of the palace.. or because of the last scene when the Queen wake up next to the King.. I still hope the Queen will be safe in the end. Is it Byeong in who read the letters from the lady who massage GQD. I really hope that at least Byeong In know and he will protect the Queen no matter what.
Just watched Ep. 14, the Queen was extremely drunk & thought she was seducing her maid Hong Yeon (Hello! sexual harassment suit, anyone?), so both the Queen & King are equally wrong in this case.
Of course, taking into account the time period, back in the day, women were considered property & if the king (or any royal or aristocrat) wanted to have sex with anyone, a person really wasn’t allowed to say no. Not that it makes it anymore right. It’s just this last century or so, women have gained rights & we’ve become more enlightened humans. Let’s just be grateful we didn’t live back then.
It was the king’s man, Hong, who read the blind maid’s note. So the King has known all along what GQD & Prime minister Kim were plotting. Wonder what the King is going to do once he finds out that Concubine Hwa Jin is colluding with the Kims and betrayed him just to get the Queen killed, especially since all he has done is suspect the Queen. You trusted the wrong woman, Cheoljung, just because of a last name.
@Cia
I haven’t watched the show YET so I don’t know anything about ice cubes 🧊🧊 🧊 in the drama. However, there’s an ice cube riddle that I know. A bartender puts poison in his ice cubes, and serves scotch on the rocks (scotch on the rocks is just whisky with ice) to two drinkers. One drinker immediately downs his drink and finishes it in one gulp. He won’t get killed. The other drinker takes his time drinking and sips the whiskey slowly. He falls down dead. Why?
That’s because the longer he holds his glass in his hand, the more the ice 🧊 cube melts. The more melted ice cubes in his glass, the more poison has dissolved in his drink.
So did Bonghwan and Lady Choi drink quickly?
But it’s also possible that the other drinker (was it the King?) was faking his death again. Prince YP has access to all sort of cheap tricks, poison and gun powder, doesn’t he?
Who knows? 🤷♀️
Halo 😁.
Regarding the ice cubes, yes Court Lady Choi and SoBong drink the beverage immediately (Choi taste tested it and SoBong only took a sip actually). So the ice has not melted yet. But the child (Damhyang the court lady) noticed that there was something wrong with the ice cube as it was dropped by Jwa Gun’s henchwoman back when the court ladies were delivering the brunch to where SoBong and GQD were.
The Queen/BongHwan clearly thought it was HongYeon because what she said was really for HongYeon. Alas she/he was in the TDW (Time of the Dogs and Wolves as she said earlier) and couldn’t differentiate between imagination and reality. What to do in a situation like this? Don’t people have a fear of being so drunk they do not remember what happened such that they can take advantage or be taken advantage of?
We are as confused as the Queen…err..BongHwan who asked:
“So the spirit doesn’t rule the body? Then, we don’t rule our body and mind at all? Does it mean that we are slaves to our hormones?”
We also felt like her….errr..him to “Feel disgusted! Feel awful. You should hate it!”
This is really exploring the idea of the spirit and body. Are they the same? You know like how in ghost stories the spirit enters the body and make the body do what it likes but technically there is 2 spirits in there. But here…SoYong’s spirit is in the river. What is happening?!?
Other than that, I find the story twists and turns really interesting and the comedic parts do not wane despite the heavy topics that surround the story progression: Special Director Hong’s drawing that looked like an octopus, Royal chef’s expressions, HongYeon’s love interest vs the guy who has a crush on her.
I like how this parallels BongHwan’s real situation before he spirit switched. This is really helping him see things a lot more clearly. Looks like next week he will finally do something to fight the injustice, which will hopefully help him when he goes back to the modern world. (He better go back to the modern world!!) I would be weirded out if he doesn’t.
@Cia, I’m also curious about the butterfly sign. We have seen it since the first episode and it is in the intro. Could it be a sign of change, metamorphosis? But what kind?
I watched the 14th episode. It’s so sad that the little girl has to be imprisoned. But I guess, the King has been plotting something too (I hope please, they won’t make the little girl died, she’s too cute 🥺) since The King signaled the Queen with his fingers that he was lying. After all it’s not the King or Byeong In that save the Queen today, it was Dam Hyang…
I also can’t think about what would happened when the King know that it was because of Hwa Jin: they tried to kill the Queen. Hwa Jin has finally became this obsessed woman. She said that if she lost the King she will die. Well, I think he basically lost him forever by doing all these scheme. Watching this drama made me really afraid of how a person could turn into because of their obsession. Be it power, wealth, or another person. 😔
And what I anticipated in the future episodes are how far the Queen will do to survive in the palace and save the people that she cared about.
Anyway, Byeong In and GQD are not in Team Soyong anymore… ByeongIn may still care for Soyong and wants her alive but he doesn’t know that by siding to the GQD and QD he’s endangering Soyong’s life. Also he didn’t believe SoBong when she told him Damhyang saved her life. So all of ByeongIn’s points are down the drain.
We know why GQD is not on Team SY anymore.
I ship the King and Soyong but not Cheoljong and Bonghwan, oh no no no. It’s crazy because Cheoljong fell in love with Bonghwan, not Soyong. So I’m glad that Bonghwan told CJ off. They have no future together.
Then the one night stand happened. This is what I’m afraid off. Clearly, Bonghwan did not consent because he’s still intoxicated. As he said he should feel angry because he was violated, but he liked what happened. What should one do when this happened in the normal setting? There was no sign of struggle because what happened was pleasing. I wish this would never happen to me or to any folks here in BoD and also out there.
Mr. Queen gave me Oh My Ghost flashback, funny since Shin Hye-sun was also in there.
The King falling in love with SuBong is similar with Oh My Ghost premise, we don’t know if it’s all BH or if SY memory/spirit play a part in it.
I’m against skinship when the line is still blurred between BH and SY moreover sleeping together *ugh*
@cia I’ve read the trick in one of Detective Conan’s case (lol), so basically the poison is in the middle of the ice cube. If we drink the the beverage before the cubes melt OR when the ice cube melts just a little then I guess it’s fine because it’s just the water. But when the ice cubes melt completely or if we eat/chew the cubes then it’s gonna be a trouble
This is what makes me think that BH is a reincarnation of SY. Because SY loved CJ in the past then that is why BH is also affected. Besides, BH & SY share other personality traits that reinforce that.
There is nothing in the world that says souls have to have a gender or a sexual identity. Souls are just spirits. After all, how do we know exactly what makes us attracted to some people and repulsed by others? Otherwise if someone is heterosexual, then shouldn’t they be attracted to everyone of the opposite sex?
Re: Poisonous ice cubes
Kim Jwa Geun instructed the maid to put honeycomb-shaped ice cubes in the Queen’s drink, because only they were poisonous. The poisonous ice cubes were mixed with the regular ones, and the maid knew which ones were to go in GQD’s bowl and which ones in Queen’s bowl.
I hope the little girl is OK.
I don’t understand why the GQD would poison the queen: Most of all—because she would miss her cooking! And, wouldn’t it be obvious that SHE poisoned her if it was done in such a public place? (Or would she have blamed it on the servant who put the ice cubes in her drink? But, then, where would the poison have come from? I assume a servant wouldn’t have access to it.)
I don’t think what happened between the king and queen was date rape. The queen initiated it/seduced the king (OK, thinking it was Hong Yeon)–and she enjoyed it. She only regretted it afterwards, in the morning. But later she described it as a new experience (saying something like until now her/his life had been like a piece of “fluffy bread” but this was different–i.e., women experience sex differently and—IMO–more intensely). I just hope that some part of So Young was there as well so that when/if she returns she will still have the same connection with the king.
You know what? I’m going to discuss rape in a different thread. I dislike that this show is getting viewers confused…but it’s just what I expected.
Although I don’t have time to watch the episodes (work travel), that’s probably good since I don’t need to contextualize rape. I’ll only talk in generalities.
For now, all I’m going to say is let’s not conflate the body’s response to stimulus with evidence that a sexual act was consensual.
I’m strongly inclined to drop this show.
@packmule3
On the show being confusing scale from 1-10 it’s a solid 11 for me after Ep 14 when the writer chose to go with the sleeping together storyline.
The response to this show also is also hmm.. Many people are shipping The King and SoBong like it’s any other OTP in kdramaland. I saw people that are uncomfortable and get shut down as being homophobic. And there are plenty of comments trying to explain the soul/ body mashup fiasco in their own way.
Yeah I didn’t start this drama because of the inevitable collision course with the aforementioned issues.
I think it’s needed to discuss about rape and I think the show is confusing with that sex scene because:
– BH was drinking a lot before
– he hallucinated about seeing HongYoeon and not the King
So those are strong evidence to support that he was pretty heavily intoxicated and in no state to give consent
But on the other side
There is nothing in the scenes with the King that can tell him that he is intoxicated. If we hadn’t seen the previous scene with him drinking we wouldn’t have known. Yes he is seeing HY (or at least he is at the beginning, not sure about the rest) but the king does not know that and there is nothing in BH’s behavior, for someone outside his mind, to make anyone suspect he is not fully aware of what he’s doing.
He is the one who undresses the King which can be read as implied consent.
If the King doesn’t know he is hallucinating he can’t really be accused of rape, right?
The problem that arises is.. why write this scene? What are you trying to say? Can there be any situation in which a party is so intoxicated to be hallucinating so not able to consent but also not obvious he is intoxicated to the other party?
Surely no one can get away with raping someone so drunk he/she can’t consent with saying “But I thought she was sober” because when you are that drunk it is pretty obvious.
I am just interested in how they will untangle the whole man spirit in a woman’s body thing. Or are we not allowed to even raise that question for fear of being called out for being homophobic? Or as mentioned, the whole question of “consent” that is raised as a result of that drunken tryst? I really don’t like how being drunk somehow absolves everyone from everything and therefore it’s okay to just skirt around these issues. 🙄. From what I have read in other forums, the Queen is with child now? Presumably from that night?
Is anyone interested to know how it ends lol..
I only want to know if my “crazy” theory in the madcap of Ep 1 was correct, Ella.
Did BongHwan finally leave Soyong’s body and return to his own body in the present time?
Did he return to his present life and was exonerated of his crimes?
Did he achieve fame and popularity for exposing the corruption in the Blue House?
If this kdrama writer has any shred of decency left after that despicable drunken-rape trope, he SHOULD write BongHwan as leaving Soyong’s body — and also leaving Soyong with BongHwan’s memories of his sojourn in Joseon. That’s just fair payment for BongHwan’s use and occupation of her body.
Speed watched it without subs 😛
Yes, BongHwan did leave Soyong’s body and returned to his body in his present time.
Yes, he returned to his present life, remembered a cctv footage he has and got the Mr.Han guy jailed
Fame and popularity, I’m not sure cos I can’t figure out what he said, but it seemed like he got his job back.
Seems like real Soyong had some traces of BongHwan’s habits and talking in an unladylike manner, but she seemed totally back to her original self. No idea yet if she retained memories like how BH had her memories.
It required a near death experience of Soyong for BH to return to the modern world. ok i will watch with sub tomorrow and hopefully understand better what is happening!
Someone mentioned the butterfly effect and it seemed like what BH did changed some history because it was the first info he went to look for the moment he woke up from the hospital…and ran to escape the detectives.
Based on initial spoiler your theory panned out packmule3
– it seems like both soul resides in the same body all this while
– BH return to his own body in the present and leave SY
– SY retains all of BH memories, we have scene where she asked if BH returned safely
i’ll come back later once i watch the finale in full sub lol
I’m glad we still be able to discuss Mr. Queen, at least the ending of the story so we can have closure after all the theories we’ve put out hihi.
The writer/s did a great job wrapping up the story. It’s a satisfying ending, around 98% for me. They really surpassed Chinese versions of the ending, making CJ, SY and BH alive and well. The baby even survived after SY was shot!
It’s unknown whether Cheoljong knew that Bonghwan is not in Soyong’s system. One thing’s for sure, he’s missing Bonghwan and his strange vocabulary. He thought that somehow he has lost something. I don’t see him questioning Soyong that much, though he asked why she was using formal language to him. I guess it’s lucky that somehow Soyong and Bong Hwan have similar personalities. But still it should be noticeable that SB/SY changed.
Oh well, no one’s questioned that much, GQD and QD were sent to the West Palace, Kim Jwa Geun is punished and is subjected to the walk of shame, corrupt officials were also punished, everyone deserving happiness is happy so it’s all good in the end.
Anyway, one thing I wished for this drama is that they should’ve shown more of Soyong’s POV, Soyong and Bonghwan could’ve had more conversations in SB’s mind, I don’t know, like Soyong’s presence could’ve been presented more so that by the time BH went back to the modern world, it would not be jarring for me to see Soyong acknowledging that BH was out of her body and that she remembers him. Also I wish SY can still cook like BH even if he’s not in her body anymore.
Well, that’s a wrap with my thoughts on Mr. Queen. It’s a great watch. It has flaws, that sex/rape scene is unforgivable. 8.5/10
Hmm…it looks like there are some who loved the ending and others who thought it made no sense? From what I can gather, there was no logical explanation as to how the both spirits resided together in the Queen’s body (it just…did). Man spirit left with no goodbyes (that would’ve been weird if he did) so the King is left flummoxed at his Queen’s sudden personality change but isn’t the wiser because hey how was he to know that a man spirit from the future went back in time and possessed his wife’s body? 🤔
But everyone is agreed on one thing. That SHS totally nailed the role.
Someone watched the spin-off about their first meeting between the King and Soyong? I didn’t yet but I found sad they didn’t put the kind of story in the main drama. I think it lacked SooYoung’s thoughts, why she loves the King so much when he wasn’t nice with her…
@Sayaris, I watched the series called “The Secret” or “The Bamboo Forest” referring to the forest Courtlady Choi and the Royal Chef goes to. It was a really light hearted 2 episodes. Loved it! It also showed Soyong being a little “crazy” and not as subdued as portrayed in the show.
I also felt like @LeeDale9198 that it would have been clearer if there was also SoYong’s conversations with BH in their mind. Throughout the show it felt like if there is any romantic parts it was SY domineering, and other parts where she gets angry or comes out with interesting ideas and strategies it is BH domineering. But maybe they were operating cooperatively. A very unusual idea of exploring what happens when it is 2 souls in one body. I didn’t think Soyong was gone and she was very much present after the second awakening when BH regained more of her memories. So the question lies in whether Soyong or BH dominated the sex/rape scene?
This was the actor JungHyun’s reply to a question on whether the King knew that BH was gone. He said that it was how Cheoljong chose to see Soyong more than whose soul is in the body. I’m not sure what to make of that…
https://www.instagram.com/p/CLUbk4uLyvT/
Please consider moving the comments about the finale and the extra “secret” episodes to a new post. I accidentally saw spoilers on the finale before I watched it (because I had subscribed to new comments on this post about Episodes 13 and 14, and saw them in my email). Also anyone coming fresh to the blog might also accidentally read them. Thanks!
Thanks, Beth.
I edited the title to say that this is the final thread for “Mr Queen.” I also added this explanation to the top of my post:
I dropped this show because the writer and director don’t meet my standards. I don’t find anything funny about the:
a. drunken-woman/man trope,
b. the I-thought-I-had-sex-with-another-person switcheroo,
c. the erroneous belief that arousal and/or orgasm during rape is a sign of consent,
d. BongHwan’s sexual assault,
e. his gay panic, and
f. rape as entertainment and romance arc.
I dislike that the writer wanted to force a sexual relationship between the horny King and the unwilling BongHwan so he wrote BongHwan as being too drunk to know what he was doing. The writer also contrived to make both the King and Bonghwan blameless for the nonconsensual sex. The writer thought it was amusing to show BongHwan panicking the morning after when he discovered that he had sex with the King. It’s not funny to feel violated.
The writer and director don’t seem to get that this deliberate obfuscation between consensual and nonconsensual sex spread false ideas about rape (fake news!) which young and indiscriminate viewers will accept hook, line and sinker. Audience should know that when somebody’s too drunk to consent to sex, or when somebody’s deceived into having sex, it’s rape.
We should be able to spot when screenwriter is using sexual assault as a plot device to level up the relationship and/or intensify the drama between the couple. We shouldn’t fall for titillating scenes or be blind to the exploitation of these rape tropes for the sake of the romance arc.
I won’t give this kdrama more breathing space than it deserves in this blog.
I’m reposting @shapelessbuns’ comment here.
–pm3
***********
I’m coming here after watching the finale and you were spot on! Wow! I didn’t pick up on the little nuances of the beginning, but it makes a lot of sense now. Personally, the ending didn’t sit right with me and I have seen many reviews stating the same opinion.
(SPOILERS AHEAD) Sure, it was a happy ending, but the entire drama is set up on the king falling for the queen’s eccentricities, her strange, unpredictable behaviour, and her knowledge of the future and other things SoYong would never have known. This leads me to believe he really fell for BongHwan, and the king even notes the differences in the Queen at the end. (When he asks her why she’s being so formal to him). When I think of it realistically, I don’t think their relationship can last if she has changed so drastically. There are hints as to how both SY and BH have changed each other, and that might be enough for their relationship to pull through since the queen is also a bit “strange” now. I just believe it was a flimsy way of doing things. It’s like SY let BH solve all of her problems and then she came back to reap the benefits.
In the end, our protagonist (who is really BH, not SY), gets like 10 minutes of screen time. Doesn’t that feel wrong? A part of me can’t help feeling that it ended this way due to homophobia. They were handling it so well throughout the drama, but it had to end with a cishet couple. I loved the drama, don’t get me wrong, but I hope many people realize that an ending with a male soul and a male person can be a happy ending too.
I just feel BH was cheated here and wish they had given him more substance in the end, and revealed more on how the King and Queen’s relationship progressed after BH left that world. It would just make me feel more secure and sure that they thought it through.
First, I think it’s misguided to call everything homophobia. The fact is BongHwan clearly stated that he wasn’t attracted to men and WE have to respect that…or we should call this insistence and requirement that his happily-ever-after be with the King as heterophobia.
Second, what I did find homophobic was the WRITER’s handling of BongHwan’s realization that he had nonconsensual sex with the king. To me, THAT farce was homophobic. The writer wrote BongHwan PANICKING that he could be gay like it was a joke. So what if he was gay?
Instead, BongHwan should be upset that he was raped. Rape doesn’t choose victims: woman, man, straight, gay, young, old, rich, poor, native or foreigner.
Third, I *knew* as soon as they had sex that the ending was going to be messy precisely because:
a. the King had fallen in love with BongHwan’s eccentricities, and not with Soyoung’s qualities,
b. there wasn’t enough time for him to fall in love with SoYoung (it was already Ep 14, right? If it took that long to materialize, it would take that long to undo, too.)
c. BongHwan HAD to return to his body — I already pointed out WHY in Episode 1.
d. SoYoung HAD to have her body and consciousness back.
As a feminist (but not a nazi-feminist), I would insist that Soyoung be given her body back. It was established in an early episode (Ep 10?) that her consciousness, memories, her VOICE, and HER WILL were inside her body. It’s an anathema to me that a man’s soul — straight or homosexual — would end up dominating and controlling a woman’s body. That’s non-negotiable. Period.
In a way, the lesson here is sex doesn’t solve everything. Had they stuck with the no-touch rule, this whole problem wouldn’t have cropped up. But this writer knew the controversy would be a boon to the drama and he capitalized on titillating the audience with the (im)possibility* of homosexual relationship between BongHwan and the King.
*It’s simply impossible because he was talking about historical characters here and that kind of historical revisionism is not tolerated in their society…as it should be. I pointed this out, too.
When I realized what the endgame was, I bailed out and didn’t invest any more time and energy on this kdrama. As I said, in the very beginning, I’m a “take it or leave it” bitch. 🙂
Well…historical revisionism is definitely not tolerated in Korea. The writer of Mr Queen? Wrote Joseon Exorcist. And obviously didn’t learn from the furore caused with Mr Queen initially. After 3(?) eps, the backlash was so great that it’s been canned.
https://twitter.com/kdrama_news/status/1375084294922715139?s=21
I was going to write about this. 🙂
I skimmed through Joseon Exorcist last night. I felt brave since my hubby was in the bedroom, and I was in my walk-in closet. (Can zombies climb up stairs?) I figured I can use my collection of heels and handbags as missiles if they attack me.
@packmule3 I wasn’t brave enough to start. Not even Train to Busan. I don’t know why they persist in using real historical figures when they know they will get in trouble for it? Is it because they think the hype will actually drive up ratings? She (?) pushed her luck this time. On another note, I am definitely bailing on Mouse. I am convinced the writer is crazy. She needs a psych assessment. 😂. The most recent development there is that somehow a serial killer on death row is allowed out to perform surgery on his own son…whom he decides isn’t worthy of living so he opts to use his son’s brain tissue(?) to repair another man’s brain (heck maybe it was a lobotomy who knows?)…so that his serial killing legacy will continue? 🙄🤔. How???
I’d have to agree: orientation doesn’t change on a dime. If you’re gay, you don’t take one look at someone and turn het, and vice versa: it doesn’t work that way. And the idea of telling someone who’s said that they’re gay ‘Ooooh, you’ll love straight sex if you just try it!” or telling someone who says they’re het, “Ooooh, you’ll love gay sex if you just try it” are equally disrespectful: people know who they are, and if you want your choices to be respected, respect those of other people.
Ntm the comments that the King would never go back after having had gay sex because sex with a woman just doesn’t cut it? Not the way to win friends and influence people. Anyone who wants my support for shows featuring SS male characters/relationships isn’t going to get it by denigrating women or female characters.
And the mad love affair? Truthfully, the King didn’t strike me as loving any of them: he barely seemed to know one person from another. First he’s so in love with Hwa Jin that he stops a sword with his bare hand; when she faints he picks her up and carries her off, leaving his wife on the concrete; he tells her he doesn’t care about the lie about the well; and she’s supposedly been in on all his secret plans and helping him with them. Suddenly he’s falling for his wife, and then he’s (possibly) falling for the man who’s possessing the body of his wife, and then he’s back to in love with his wife — or maybe not, since he does seem to notice — for a second or so, at least — that she’s different. All in the space of four months? Who does he go head over heels for next? Lady Choi?
SJ seemed far more real to BH than she did to the King: I loved that telling off. I actually started to hope that they’d end up together in the present, leaving the King to keep falling madly in love with whoever crossed his path.
The ‘drunk sex’ was a deal-breaker on every level: having sex with someone you know is drunk is exploitation at best and outright rape at worst. And the implication that if you get someone drunk, non-aligned sex wll be such a thrill that their orientation will just disappear is like waving a banner reading “If you want to change someone’s orientation, just get them too drunk to know who they’re having sex with and rape them. They’ll not only thank you in the morning, they’ll fall madly in love with you.” I thought we’d put the old chestnut about raping a lesbian straight behind us, but apparently we’ve just expanded it to “And you can rape a het man gay as well.”
I think the only reason these scenes got a pass was that one of the men was being visually represented by a woman. If they’d done that ‘have sex with someone clearly too drunk to know who they’re with’ with two male characters, I not only doubt that anyone would have found it in the least amusing, I suspect the screams of ‘Rape!’ would’ve been heard on Mars.
The lead actress was phenomenal: when she was acting as BH, you could believe he was really there. But between the drunk sex and the ‘Just get rid of her, already!’ and the ‘So what if she’s stuck in her own body? I want a gay ending!’, I’m going to be passing on KD for a while. There are limits to how much misogyny I can take at a sitting.
Welcome to the blog, @Cathryn_Blake.
Please don’t allow one kdrama repel you from watching other kdramas. Now that you know what you DON’T want to watch, it’s easier to avoid them later. I don’t watch dramas with politics and law because writers invariably show politicians and lawyers as scumbag. (edited)
Just avoid dramas like “Mr Queen” and any future work of this writer. I’m sure you’ll find other dramas to pique your interests. Good luck!