The drinking culture. One of my biggest pet peeves about kdramas is how the characters, especially the female leads, always end up stupid drunk.
If I didn’t know any better, I would think that:
a. drinking is part of their work culture 👉 it’s “normal.”
b. nothing forms a bonding between acquaintances like drunk-talk 👉 it’s “constructive.”
c. there’s soju, makgeolli, maekju (beer), and somaek (the soju + maekju bomb) 👉 it’s “cool.”
d. the piggyback ride comes after the girl’s black-out 👉 it’s “oh-so-romantic.”
But being a bitch, of course, I know better.
From “She Was Pretty” (2015)
source: sophiestops’ tumblr
To “Mr Queen” (2021)
I believe the binge-drinking trope in kdramas should be toned down or reassessed if the network companies want to continue exporting their dramas abroad. Drinking immoderately is never the correct message they want to send to their viewers, especially the young ones.
These are my “Mommy” rules on how to drink responsibly. I gave my sons similar advice when they were growing up.
Before going to the party:
1. Eat up.
Order pizza. Eat pasta. Fill up your tummy before going to the party, so alcohol isn’t the only thing sloshing in there.
2. Charge your cellphone.
Or bring a charger and extra battery. You don’t want to have a dead phone when you need to call UBER.
3. Know your limits and STICK with them.
If one glass is your limit, then stick with it. There’s no harm in asking for water and chugging on it. If you want, remember the names “Shirley Temple” (grenadine/pomegranate syrup and Sprite) or “Arnold Palmer” (iced tea and lemonade), and order them.
4. Don’t drink medicine.
Sometimes you forget that alcohol and medicine don’t mix. Don’t take medicine for your cough, cold, or headache, if you’re planning on drinking afterwards.
5. Don’t drink while depressed…
Or emotional. You tend to drink more.
At the party:
1. Graze on snacks.
Same principle. While at the party, snack up. Try to avoid the salty ones, though, that will make you thirsty.
2. Have a designated driver.
A designated driver can’t touch alcohol. No drinking and driving. But if everybody is going to drink, then UBER home.
3. No to binge-drinking.
Just like you shouldn’t binge-watch, you shouldn’t binge-drink either. I say one glass an hour is good enough. Make it last.
4. Be careful with those fruity alcoholic drinks (coolers?)
Sometimes you consume more.
5. Avoid the punch bowl.
Because who knows if somebody spiked it.
6. Keep an eye on your drink.
Same principle. If you leave it unattended, you don’t know if somebody has touched it and/or slipped something in it.
7. If you must play those drinking games…
then you won’t keep track of the number of drinks. Designate a buddy you can trust who’ll tackle you to the ground should you start removing your clothes and dance naked on the table.
8. Squad rules.
Look after each other. If one of your friends is inebriated, it’s time for you to head home. Don’t leave your drunk friend behind.
*Note to a guy: if one of your female friends/acquaintances is drunk, escort her home but make sure you’re accompanied by another one of her FEMALE friends. This is to protect yourself from possible rape accusation. You never know….
So that’s it. My “mommy” guide to safe drinking.
Alcohol is really nothing to be afraid of, if you know how to respect it and yourself.
Absolutely spot on. 👍 Or, in the dramas, if they don’t know their limits at the first time, they learn for the subsequent times.
So true, @packmule3! Love the Mommy advice❤ I too don’t understand why the FLs in kdramas are always shown drinking so much that someone (usually the ML) needs to take care of them. To me, the FL ends us looking helpless and blabbering and not at all dignified.
Also, as a woman myself, I do not think I would ever be comfortable drinking so much even with office colleagues where I would lose my senses and be vulnerable. I remember being warned of date rape and people taking advantage of unconscious girls by my mother..maybe she was overcautious but it has made me wary of ever drinking beyond one glass in a public place.
Of course Korean culture may be different but I still think it is a trope used by the drama writer to make the FL confess to feelings that she would not voice in a conscious state, or to show how caring and respectful the ML is towards the FL. Either way, it looks like an unnecessary trope to me🙄
I know, right?
It’s a trope and tropes don’t have to exist in perpetuity especially when common sense tells us that it’s wrong to abuse alcohol.
Because that’s what this is: alcohol abuse in the guise of company culture.
Well I had Happy Hours, too. When I mingled with the summer interns (who were mostly < 21) that soda was perfectly fine, and that I was drinking an "Arnold Palmer" myself.
Also, Phoenix, it might just be a trope for ONE drama.
But if you have 5 dramas showing concurrently, and at least three of them use this binge-drinking trope at least once in the drama, then the conclusion the viewers will get is that:
yeah. there’s nothing wrong with this.
it’s cute that she gets away with confessing her feelings like that.
how romantic!
well, drunk is normal!
Binge-drinking is a way of life.
my prince charming will take care of me
Facepalm.
Yes, why can’t happy hours be with cocktails and mocktails?
I recently saw a scene in Run On where the FL was confessing her feelings when drunk and the ML was mumbling to himself that he returns the sentiment. Presumably this will create some sort of romantic tension between the two where the FL is unaware that she confessed and the ML (and the viewers) will know anyway.
I saw your earlier Pet Peeve #1 just now on piggyback rides which actually is a by-product of this Pet Peeve #2😛 I confess that piggyback ride is a pet peeve of mine too (I had missed that post earlier), mainly because it makes me think that the FL has to be underfed and featherweight to be carried on the back in that way. Carrying the FL in both arms like we are used to seeing in movies seems much more comfortable on the ML’s knees🤔🤔😛😛
Of course, @packmule3, legions of starry eyed kdrama fans might be thinking it is oh-so-romantic to be carried on the back in a drunk state by the ML and missing the whole point that real life may not be as romantic and knights in shining armors are a rarity 🙄 I agree – I don’t think binge drinking should ever be romanticized because there may be gullible viewers out there who may think such behavior is okay.
I don’t like the piggyback rides because it feels awkward that I’m straddling a guy around his waist.
(Maybe I’m just being Victorian here.)
But I understand that more weight can be lifted for a longer distance on a piggyback carry than, say, a bridal carry. (Guy carries girl in his arms. Which reminds me, I have to talk about a Chinese drama where the guy carries the girl a lot, bridal style…lol.)
Oh is that called a bridal carry? I didn’t know🤔 Does it come from that practice of the groom carrying the bride over the threshold after marriage? I find this style of carrying romantic, mainly because I’ve seen lots of Hollywood movies where Harrison Ford/Clark Gable types carry FLs in their arms..even in the old B&W movies, there used to be these mushy scenes. I’ve also read too many Regency romance novels where the hero picks up the heroine in his arms in a height of romantic scene😝
For some reason, to me, the piggyback rides feel like the FL is being compared to a sack of potatoes 🙈🙈 Lol..
Eagerly waiting to know which C drama has lots of romantic bridal carry scenes😝
I’ve been watching Misaeng. There is so much drinking until sloppy/sick drunk by the men as well, so it’s not just the women. Of course, the women are more vulnerable. One of the senior MLs said to the newbie* that if you can’t drink, you can’t do business. He pretty much said the same about smoking, and that the newbie should carry a lighter, even if he doesn’t smoke (yet). I was shaking my head. At least smoking in kdramas has nearly disappeared.
Yes, I was also wondering if the drinking was a plot device as well, for people to say things when they would normally keep schtum.
To me, I’d feel like a sack of potatoes during a “fireman carry.”
Fireman carry is when you’re placed on a shoulder. Your butt is sticking up in the air.
Yes. The bridal carry gets its name from the tradition of the bride being carried over the threshold. 😂
So we have the piggyback (also known as packstrap), bridal (or princess) and fireman lifts.
😂
Honestly, while the fireman carry is unpleasant to imagine, it’s more practical with someone who is incapable of walking or nearly passed out. I can’t imagine a piggyback with someone who can’t hold on. They would fall over sideways or worse, backwards from a height. There’s no good solution for carrying a passed out person.
Having said that, you wouldn’t get me doing a ranger roll into a fireman carry. 😂 More like recovery position and call 911 because what you’re dealing with is basically alcohol poisoning and it can be deadly.
Oooooh @packmule3, I didn’t know that term fireman lift yoo🙈🙈🙈 This is turning out to be an educational post for me (almost like that old hickey one😜😜)
@Fern, of course, there is no good way to carry a passed out person (or a overly healthy one like me🤣🤣), that can prevent the person from sliding off midway..which brings us to the original conclusion that it is better to drink responsibly and be safe than sorry.
Love this post! Back when I was writing more for my blog, I lamented how many times characters used to look for solutions at the bottom of bottles, only to find that there were none.
Your “Mommy” guidelines are so much more complete than I would have considered back in my day (late ’70’s/80’s).
Love the helpful mummy guidelines! And the educational comments on the carrying types. Is carrying a drunk person like carrying a dead weight. Like when I carry my napping toddler in deep sleep, the weight feels a lot more than when they are carried awake, plus their heads are going all over the place. I’m carrying only <15kg. What about a 40-50kg person. I can't imagine.
Anyway, this drunk culture is a very strong and obvious troupe in kdramas because i think it is the only way they get to express their feelings in all honestly, and without knowing it. That is scary isn't it, spilling my truths that I am not ready to reveal yet. Then again, they make it so romantic in these dramas
I agree with the excessif drunk scenes. When they are connected to their job, I can understand, it’s a cultural thing in Korea. But when they’re alone and just making themselves numb, it’s hard to watch. I think it’s male and female characters. There are scenes when it’s the small girl who had to piggy back ride the big guy. I’m still impressed by Kim SeulGi (1m58) carring Lee Jin Hyuk (1m85) on her back in Find Me in Your Memory.
Perhaps it’s not only K-dramas? We saw it in Love Lasts Forever (Japanese) and She Was Pretty (Chinese version). It nearly seems to be the exception when it doesn’t occur.
@packmule3, This post was so true and so important. The usevof thisctrope has bothered me too. In K Dramas and it appears in real life, the drinking culture and its place in tbe workplace-company/team dinners make drinking mandatory. There seems to be a lot of pressure to keep up and it seems that drinking cements your place in the hierarchy. I’ve read that in Seoul it is not unheard of for people to pass out drunk on the street and to be left alone. Your very practical Mommy rules would have to be applied surreptitiously and be adjusted to allow for company survival. Perhaps, finding ways to water down existing drinks and drinking very slowly are the keys to corporate success. The other way is to use age etiquette and have the younger worker pour more for the older workers, keeping a small amount of liquor/beer continuously in one’s glass to prevent topping off. The same can be said for the university films where class dinners with professors seem to have bearing on one’s grades. I think there is a real discomfort level in a society where conformity is valued over all. In thinking about it, your post becomes all the more important given the cultural requirements. The only from my point of view, thing that K Dramas seem to do in this area that makes some sense is not to encourage drunk driving. There are lots of cab and contract driver scenes. But still, that is in service to the drinking culture.
In the United States, we do have a drinking culture but in general, employment is not dependent upon going to company dinners as is getting aunuversity degree. And we are far less conformist. But we know that drinking and substance abuse is a problem and that drunk/impaired driving is rampant. So here Mommy rules are extremely important. And in any place, it is not a good idea toleave a drink unattended. When I worked as a probation officer we had many sexual assault defendants who placed scapolomine and other knock out drugs in mainly women’s unattended drinks. And that goes back more than forty years.
Thanks @PM3 for doing a separate post on this. These are good tips! I just had a discussion with my eldest who is into kpop and is aware of the Korean drinking culture and how it is a “normal” thing. We tried soju (available in Asian stores) and it packs a punch. I’m super red faced and itchy after 2 shots (soju mixed with yakult actually tastes good!) and no wonder those ladies (or guys) get hammered after multiple bottles and require piggy back rides! It’s really a turn off and painful to watch when this trope is excessively done.
I don’t like the taste of alcohol in general and I get allergies when I drink so the allergy is my excuse on many occasions, even during business dinners in Japan (where drinking culture is also a big thing). So far, no damage to working relationships by saying “no, thanks. I’m ok with soda or iced tea.”
I honestly hate the drinking I see in dramas!
Excessive drinking should never be normal neither should we romanticise it. I struggle with seeing people being pressured into drinking. I don’t like the taste of alcohol much so my no is no and that’s that.
It’s crazy thinking about how drinking is so prevalent in many cultures. Here in the U.K “a cheeky pint” is such a norm. Every office social means people are drinking and it’s like why can’t you have fun sober? And don’t get me started on dramas where people don’t express their feelings unless drunk. I feel like Korean dramas are so in your face with the drinking, I can watch a British/American show where the characters hardly drink the whole time but I don’t think I’ve ever seen a drama without a bottle of soju, beer. Even the teen dramas always have a drunk adult or when the characters grow up they drink too. But will this change, can it change?
These tips are very helpful and I hope it is helpful to someone! Let your yes be yes and your no be no! If you have a limit stick to it, if you don’t drink enough to know your limit, be cautious and don’t mind what people say. It’s better to be teased as a lightweight than land yourself in a terrible situation because you got drunk.
Wow packmule3 thank you for writing this post. I myself maybe had this pet peeve from a loong time watching kdramas. I used to watch some Japanese dramas in my teenage years, but compare to Kdramas : the frequency of FL drunk and doing stupid things are a lot more I think. I try to understand that maybe it is their culture to get drunk.. but sometimes some of them think that it is the best way to “say the things they cannot say while sober”.. But I personally seeing that everything that have been done in a sober state is more meaningful.
As the kdramas are being watched by more people from around the world, I become worried that many girls will think it is cool to get drunk and doing stupid things like that.
Have anyone watched the Kmovie called Hope? I was really really angry and sad when seeing that movie because the perpetrator who raped a little girl got less punishment just because he’s drunk. I was so speechless and so heartbroken. I mean please… the damage of raping itself will lasted forever for this girl. He should have got more punishment. He deserved that. Oh I cried a lot too watching that movie because it is based on the true story. This is for me, why you should not get too drunk. How come you are free from what you did because you’re drunk. Become drunk itself was your choice from the very first place. You have to know your limit for sure. Also, everything that you’ve done after you get drunk is the outcome, you should have been responsible to them.
Oh I hope a lot more people will read about this and the mommy rules on how to drinking responsibly could be the next cool thing to do, no, it should have been a must thing to do.
So…where do shower scenes rank in the Pet Peeve-o-meter? They are kinda necessary for deep thinking you know. Those epiphany moments. Especially for alpha males. 😂
@Esst3, I know that ‘cheeky pint’. And one leads to another, right? Where I live in the UK, there is a weekly 2 page photo essay of people waving to the camera in clubs. I couldn’t believe it – 1, for glamourising getting drunk and 2, everyone, including your boss, has you on record in the local paper. 😬🤦♀️
@nrllee, I suspect that many actors, same as men in general, work really hard on their upper body for looks and they may actually be disappointed if they don’t get appreciated. HOWEVER, I was so surprised when a shower scene came up very early on in one of my first K-dramas, and in almost every one subsequently. Even the historical dramas had some equivalent. The scenes aren’t just a glance, but more like a stalkers point of view. I would understand if the dramas continued in that mode, but then the rest is +13 so it stands out as an odd fan service.
I admit after watching western dramas where the direction traditionally has a male point of view and that actresses are more often the ones being stalked by the camera, it seemed an interesting reversal.
I agree that they do too much of this trope in kdramas and you are correct of course. It’s not cute to drink beyond your limit. People should follow your advice, men and women.
But women drinking so much in kdramas is one of the things I actually like.
@Pheonix says in a comment at the beginning that the FL ends up looking “not at all dignified” and I think one of the charms, to me, of this trope is in this: women don’t really have to look dignified, not more than men in any case.
Especially in societies that tend to be more sexist and who think strongly that women, more than men, should look dignified, not drink, not be aggressive, be delicate, and all that nonsense, it is refreshing for me to see women drinking as much as men.
Sure women are still painted with many stereotypes in kdramas, even in their drinking, since they are not just drunk but many times, cute naive stupid drunk, lady in distress in need of a knight in shining armor.
And yes, it can be more dangerous for a woman to drink beyond a certain point and, yes, it’s also wrong if there’s peer pressure to drink from work or friends.
But other than that I like to see female characters who are not the stereotypes that society for many centuries forced them into.
A character like the queen in queen Cheorin was not really possible during Jeoson. Sure, she is a man in this drama not a woman but a woman acting like BH is not so farfetched in this century.
And I like seeing that
Oli,
🙂
In general, I’d agree that breaking the stereotypical and systemic gender mold foisted upon women would be aspirational.
However, if the aspiration of women is to OUTDO a man in achieving something stupid and wrong, i.e., drinking to excess, smoking, having unprotected sex, cheating, killing, and all the million bad things BOTH sexes are capable of, then that’s not going to advance the feminist cause.
What’s the point there? To have a pissing contest? To prove that we can piss standing up, too, just like men, and ruin our Louboutin heels in the process?
No, thank you. As a true RADICAL feminist, I want to hold women to a higher standard, not debased or equal standard.
I agree with Phoenix that dignity is important. Maintaining dignity isn’t about being a stuck-up or a prude. In its purest sense, dignity means to respect one’s self and one’s body. There’s zero dignity in stumbling drunk in the street, like in the “She Was Pretty.”
And there’s nothing empowering in blacking out.
There are also more reasons for women NOT to binge-drink. Science says that our bodies are different from men’s bodies. When kdramas keep showing drunk heroines as if it’s admirable or cute or romantic to have these moments, their writers are doing a big disservice to their female audience.
From the National Institute of Health:
https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/brochures-and-fact-sheets/women-and-alcohol
In brief, women are more susceptible to blackouts than men. When regularly misusing alcohol, women show signs of long-term, alcohol-related health issues earlier than men, i.e., liver problem, heart disease, and brain impairment. There’s also risk of breast cancer. And if the woman is pregnant, drinking is harmful to both mother and child in the womb.
I thought I already did shower scenes?
https://bitchesoverdramas.com/2018/01/03/just-bitching-the-obligatory-post-on-shower-scenes/
Oh! I see… I forgot to assign it a Pet Peeve number. 😂
The numbers are random. The Pet Peeves weren’t ranked.
I’m not saying dignity is wrong or blacking out is empowering or that women should do all the bad things that are not criticized to the same extent in men.
But people are not perfect and they will do things and it’s unfair if some things are criticized disproportionately if women do them.
They shouldn’t be and yet they were and still are in many parts of the world.
Nobody is saying “look at this great woman who drinks until she blacks out or so much that she can’t remember what she did”
What I’m saying is, even if our bodies are different and tolerance to alcohol may be different, there was for a very long time an exaggerated unfair shaming of women to not do certain things that were a bit more tolerated in men.
X or Y is “wrong especially for a woman”, a lot of people say, even in my country.
And that “especially for a woman” is not acceptable to me. A man or a woman blacking out from too much drinking is not empowering but not more detrimental to your dignity if you’re a woman than if you’re a man.
Some cultures think that, that women lose their “dignity” by the most trivial things.
So that’s why I see it as refreshing if in Korea, if kdramas are any indication of what a society might be like, there doesn’t really seem to be any difference in how men and women drink.
It’s not a habit to be praised, drinking beyond a certain point, but still, it’s nice to see that there’s no disproportionate judging thrown out at women who drink as much as most men.
Which is not to say that a woman who doesn’t drink or a woman who is like the stereotype of their sex is a bad thing.
My pet peeve is excessive chasteness. It’s super laughable when characters in their 30 agonize over whether they should hold hands. Like, c’mon, lets be real. Sex is OK to show. You don’t have to go full Bridgerton (though Netflix produced shows should) but if American shows can present hot clothed sex than Koreans can too. Why waste all those ripped actor bodies?
IMO, chasteness gets in the way of romance a lot. I tolerable it in teen dramas where everyone is supposed to be virginal (year right) but it completely destroys adult couples IMO.
That on top of pet peeves such as:
pointless mandated side plots and characters that don’t forward the story (usually someone’s ex or some business scheme)
flashbacks to older scenes in order to pad the running time
overlong running time where some episodes take movie-level of running time but without enough material to justify it
unnecessary complication to the drama that already has a natural drama source that doesn’t need extra one
ML or FL worship at the exclusion of everyone else resulting in predictable development for ML/FL and no development for other characters
ML/FL being boring and drama saved by supporting characters some of them more worthy of being ML/FL
mandated 16 episode format that more often than not leads to story fizzling halfway through
Audience dictating the content with their feedback past ep 4 which is why many dramas start as one thing but end as something totally different and often much worse. Also explains jarring story and tonal shifts.
@Oli I understand the point you are making that some conservative societies still judge a woman who drinks too much (or even smokes, for that matter) as a morally questionable woman. I agree with this – this stereotyping is wrong, just like some societies still judge women by the kind of clothes they wear. If we consider that aspect, then yes, Korean society actually does not point fingers at women drinking or even outdrinking men, and hence treats women equally in that respect.
However, the point I think @packmule3’s post is making is that both men and women shown drinking beyond their limits in kdramas to lead to a romantic situation may not be the right thing to portray. It may send the wrong message to impressionable young viewers that it is okay to drink and lose all mental faculties, in fact it is even cute and romantic.
I’ve seen men confessing to things when drunk and then becoming the laughing stock of their colleagues later, much to their lasting embarrassment. Is that dignified? Does it show that person in a good light as a mature and responsible individual? Anyone not in their senses and blabbering in a drunk state looks undignified, maybe even ludicrous in real life, I think. Anything done in excess shows that the person is not in control. I think that’s where @packmule3’s mommy advice comes handy on how to drink and how much to drink, and how to make sure one is sensible enough to plan backup arrangements for returning home. These precautions are not just for women, but for men too. Men can get mugged and beaten while drunk and hence can be vulnerable too.
@packmule3 Nooo!😱 I love the shower scenes😍 Remember I even made a Waterfall of Shallowness on our Shallow Island where we could peek at manly peaks😜🙈 I agree with @nrllee They are kind og necessary for deep thinking on the alpha male’s part (and deep sighing by lurking fan ahjummas😜😜)
IMO, there should be more shower and shirtless scenes not less. And sageuks should mandate bathing in a waterfall with FL peeking at hot ripness of the bathing ML.
Oli,
There is no exaggerated or unfair shaming here. When I say that binge-drinking is bad *especially for women* it is proven so by data and science. No more, no less.
Correcting a societal or cultural stereotypes against so-called “immoral” women should not come at the expense of a more grievous injury to the overall well-being, and mental and health issues of women.
If women and men were to suffer the same indignities and same consequences from alcohol abuse, then fine, one sex cannot be signaled out for special attention or “disproportionate judging” as you call it.
But this is obviously not the case here.
Without a doubt, women are disproportionately the vulnerable ones during moments of alcohol stupor.
We shouldn’t conflate calling attention to indisputable facts with “unfair” criticism. It is what it is. What’s unfair and unconscionable about this issue is that, for so long, this “drunk woman” trope has gone on WITHOUT condemnation, and with passive acceptance.
It is wrong.
It should be made clear – like what I’m doing in this blog – that this trope in kdrama is NOT acceptable *especially* when majority of kdrama audience is female. Many unsuspecting, impressionable (this word is used too often), gullible, and young female viewers will normalize this.
They’ll think that binge-drinking and blacking out are cool because the cute and spunky heroine does it. Or they’ll think that binge-drink is fine because ~ hey, at least it’s an “equal-opportunity” stupidity.
No. I don’t see it at all as “refreshing.” I call it as I see it: naive and sexist.
There ARE differences between the physiological reactions of the two sexes to alcohol. It’s sexist to ignore the differences. It’s also sexist to define a woman into an extension of what a man can or cannot do. It’s maddeningly sexist when kdrama writers use a drunk woman as plot device.
Why should I accept it? For piggybacks rides? For love confessions? For aegyo or cute-ism?
A thinking woman never has to sink to the lowest common denominator. Especially THIS bitch.
If I need a piggyback ride because I’m too drunk to walk out the bar on my own two legs, then I’m wallowing in the patriarchal mindset that men are my rescuers. If I need courage from soju to express myself to the guy, then I’m not woman enough to speak my own mind. If I need aegyo to get what I want, then I’m encouraging this infantilization of women.
Do you see that?
Those are the sexist mentality perpetuated by this drunk woman trope.
So sure, let’s have a scene where the heroine as drunk as a skunk if you want to show that, in non-judgmental society, women are free to do bad things like men. But don’t give me the hogwash that kdrama writers aren’t promoting and reinforcing a sexist view of women’s helplessness in these scripted scenarios. It’s actually more insidious because they’re showing this “learned” or acquired helplessness due to alcohol abuse from a romantic/comedic angle.
Full disclosure: I drink. I can handle more drinks than most of my colleagues at work can. (The Irish is known to drink like a fish.) But I’m not going to use my “superior” drinking ability as a yardstick to show that a woman is better than a man.
Again, I’ll say this. It’s a disservice to women — and men, too — when kdrama writers continue using the drunk woman trope. Nothing admirable comes out of it. Period.
@Fern, Confession,I like the shower scenes. But where they are done on steroids is BL dramas. And in general from what I’ve seen, the kids scenes are not chaste. I didn’t think I’d watch these but found out that a huge part of their fan service caters to teen age girls. But methinks that most of these dramas don’t originate in Korea but in Taiwan, Thailand and Viet nam (and to a lesser extent in Hong Kong, Japan and Mainland China). And what’s also interesting is how androgenous so many of the men are. So if you’re an Asian actor with slight build and a pretty face with good hair, you’ll get work. This fascinates me because I’d love to see better hetero kisses but I think maybe some if the more conservative productions worry that they’ll encourage promiscuity in women. And with the BL dramas, I guess they think that teen girls watching gay men as safe as no pregnancy will ensure. And where this can be seen in Korea are the boy KPop groups but not so much in K dramas. The differences in Cultural norms are certainly fascinating.
@packmule3, It’s amazing to see the diversity and intensity of opinion in these posts. I am in general agreement with you on the drunken woman post. From what I’ve seen of Korean culture, women (apart from chaebols) have limited opportunity in the workplace, are still expected to do most domestic chores and child rearing(some even lose their names and are known as fill in the blanks mother) and heaven forbid if they are less than the Korean standard of beauty(too far, too tall,square face,bad skin). For women, this trope just adds another layer of humiliation try o women’s lot. From a women’s empowerment point if view, this is unacceptable. And I also agree that women’s physiology has bearing on the I’ll affects of alcohol. We now know that up until recently the medical community treated women as if they. We’re smaller men. Cancers, heart disease, medications prescribed were either misdiagnosed, improperly dosed to the point of toxicity it ignored. And the medical professionals looked at women as hysterical(see the etymology of the word). And let’s not forget about menstruation and menopause. So yeah, enough of the 50 ways to humiliate women. Thanks @packmule3 for setting the record straight.
True Beauty is probably the show in recent memory where they have a female character get drunk in almost every ep; Jukyung’s sister.
But in kdrama even when people get drunk every so often, I rarely seen them treated as an alcoholic that needs to get help. This drunken behavior just went away at the end or when the person changed. But alcohol addiction or recovery is rarely address there.
Good point, @Ella. It’s as though alcoholism doesn’t exist. If I were that character’s parents, I would be seriously worried.
@Old American Lady and @Phoenix, I don’t dislike the shower scenes, but sometimes wonder if the younger actors are okay with it or go along with it to hold onto the job, especially if it’s gratuitous. Haha, I was cluelessly trying to figure out what BL meant. 🤪
My daughter told me a while back that a lot of fanfic morphs into BL, including some based on old Harry Potter stuff and One Direction, and current KPop groups. Her theory was that it is psychologically more comfortable for the authors who are often teenage girls. 😉
@Fern, You make a good point about the exploitation of the actors doing shower/”love” scenes. After the new too movement, US film productions now have a particular job called an intimacy coordinator to prevent exploitation.From what I’ve read all of these scenes are done with large crews and are very technical ,visually because if camera angles. In most of these dramas the view is from the waist up and the men are wearing underpants. Anything more is hinted by moves to zippers and full body coverage by blankets in these Asian dramas.
Your daughter knows that there is so much fan fiction out there.YouTube also has scene mash ups by viewers with written narratives in between making entirely new content,reflective of the poster’s fantasies. It reminds me of cosplay at conventions like Comic con. These subcultures are fascinating but also troubling. I have read about cosplayers being sexually harassed or being sexual harassers. And a lot of fan fiction borders on the pornographic. What I’ve also read is that Fifty Shades of Grey was initially fan fiction. And your daughter knows that so much of the BL content is marketed to teen age girls with flower boy characters. The Viki platform actually included these under genres under each country and Kokowa. It’s the LGBTQ+ content. The other streaming seevices just place them in the latter. Most of these are alternative lifestyle romances. And if you watch them the kisses are far more passionate than a lot of what we see in K Dramas with the jawline shot, the head caress,the arm movement, the open and closed eyes, coming up for air, etc. And usually one partner had very feminine facial features (so teen girls can imagine themselves in their place). That’s why heterosexual K Dramas could at least up their kissing game. Lovestruck in the City did that well as did Secret Romance. My superficial self doesn’t want oecjs or dead fish. And I don’t need them to go full Outlander or Bridger ton….
@Fern that sounds so crazy and yet so British I’m not even surprised. I bet people love being featured! Badge of honour and all that. And a cheeky pint is never just a pint. At my workplace we had a bar/restaurant on the ground floor so before covid people used to go for a pint after work literally everyday. Then they’d meet up on the weekends to drink some more and I’m just think surely you have other things to do?
About shower scenes, honestly depends on who it is. If it’s an actor I find attractive I think I’d appreciate the view and say “oh check out his abs” but if not then it’s like “hmm okay 😕”. Having said that, Ji Chang Wok had a shower scene in the recent episode of Love in the City and I rolled my eyes thinking “why are they showing this?” I get it, he was pondering on his conversation with the FL and remembering a day out at the beach where they were rinsing off sand and playing but still WHY did he have to be in the shower. So maybe Team no shower is rubbing off on me.
There’s something in the way k-dramas portray kissing, sex and intimacy that rubs me the wrong way some times. I definitely appreciate that they don’t show bare buttocks unprovoked like Hollywood but I think they can to do better. You can depict intimacy without being vulgar and also without making grown adults act so clueless. The fish kiss and the church hug grate on my nerves! A church hug is when you hug someone of the opposite sex with lots of space between your bodies. I think my issue is that it lacks sincerity, the actors do a great job of expressing their emotions and confessing their feelings and it’s sealed by the sloppiest kisses and least passionate of hugs. And so like Eun Dan Oh from EY I feel like I hear the click and KNOW it’s a stage. I’d actually rather have a good hug without the kiss, like True Beauty does in recent episodes.
Packmule3, you taught us what a trope is in c and kdramas and I thank you for that.
Concerning the alcohol in these dramas, behind this trope is still (I think) a Taoist practice.
Although Taoism has practically disappeared in South Korea, traces of it can still be found in the customs of the contemporary society. For example, in sageuk films with shamans, the practice of magic (and the search for immortality) are one of the components of a certain form of Taoism. I’m not saying that all shamans are Taoists.
I quote from Marcel Granet, Chinese Thought, 1934. (a French sinologist and sociologist) (and from Wikipedia, French version because it is practically unknown in the Anglo-Saxon world and I cannot find sources in English):
According to Marcel Granet, In the quest for immortality “Taoist dietetics « does not prescribe constant fasting, nor even sobriety. It forbids to eat cereals, like the vulgar, but invites to taste the juice of things. It advises drinking the fertile dew. It in no way prohibits alcoholic beverages. It considers them to be extracts of life . No more than a newborn, an adult will not be injured by falling (even from the top of a chariot and even on hard ground) if the fall takes place when he is drunk: it is because, thanks to the drunkenness, his life power ( chen ) is intact ( ts’iuan ). Drunkenness brings one closer to holiness, for, like dancing, it prepares for ecstasy » “
Even today there is still a “science” of alcohol, to consume it with plants or certain meats so as not to attack the liver. The fact that Koreans drink while eating so much pork is not insignificant – saturated fats among others protect the liver.
So, yes, drinking on an empty stomach and beyond one’s limits is stupid! I don’t know how these ladies will end up in 20 years.
I don’t drink! I’m just interested in these practices.
This is the theory of “why people drink in certain places in Asia”.
Now the question is: why do people in c and k drama drink so much to free themselves? And especially a woman? What is hiding beyond these scenes?
Could alcohol, for Chinese and Koreans, like songs and dances, for Indians (mostly vegetarians), be considered today cathartic ways of communication?
I don’t know, but at this “match”, for the health of the body, I prefer to sing and dance … even if I annoy my neighbor.
I end up with a Taoist poet, one of the biggest in China, Li Po
“Drinking Alone Beneath the Moon” by Li Po (around 743)
Among the blossoms, a single jar of wine.
No one else here, I ladle it out myself.
Raising my cup, I toast the bright moon,
and facing my shadow makes friends three,
though moon has never understood wine,
and shadow only trails along behind me.
Kindered a moment with moon and shadow,
I’ve found a joy that must infuse spring:
I sing, and moon rocks back and forth;
I dance, and shadow tumbles into pieces.
Sober, we’re together and happy. Drunk,
we scatter away into our own directions:
intimates forever, we’ll wander carefree
and meet again in Star River distances.
Surely, if heaven didn’t love wine,
there would be no Wine Star in heaven,
and if earth didn’t love wine, surely
there would be no Wine Spring on earth.
Heaven and earth have always loved wine,
so how could loving wine shame heaven?
I hear clear wine called enlightenment,
and they say murky wine is like wisdom:
once you drink enlightenment and wisdom,
why go searching for gods and immortals?
Three cups and I’ve plumbed the great Way,
a jarful and I’ve merged with occurrence
appearing of itself. Wine’s view is lived:
you can’t preach doctrine to the sober.
It’s April in Ch’ang-an, these thousand
blossoms making a brocade of daylight.
Who can bear spring’s lonely sorrows, who
face it without wine? It’s the only way.
Success or failure, life long or short:
our fate’s given by Changemaker at birth.
But a single cup evens out life and death,
our ten thousand concerns unfathomed,
and once I’m drunk, all heaven and earth
vanish, leaving me suddenly alone in bed,
forgetting that person I am even exists.
Of all our joys, this must be the deepest.
https://www.encyclopedia.com/arts/educational-magazines/drinking-alone-beneath-moon
@lululatortue: What a beautiful poem! I loved it –
“forgetting the prtson I am even exists
Of all our joys, this must be the deepest”
– so perfectly articulated- isn’t that why most people get drunk?
Thank you for sharing this 😊
@lululatortue, thank you for your amazing words and for the poem. 💖
The murky wine makes me recall the murky new wines at the Beaune auction which become the clear wines 🍷 later in the new year.
Thanks @lululatortue. I thought I posted to you on this topic but it does not seem to be here! I must have been drunk and forgot that I didn’t actually post it LOL! I like that there could be a reason for the drinking culture and if it started among the Taoists, then it could have spread who can then be persons of various East Asian descents. Better that reason than that they drink out of weakness, or because they want to irresponsibly attribute their mistakes to drink, or they drink to forget or salve a pain. 😉
I like the poem very much!