The thread is now open for spoilers, discussions, and analyses.
The first open thread is here: Vincenzo: Open Thread
This thread is curated by @grace, @Janey, and @Fern. 🙂
gifs from mostlyfate’s tumblr
Quick! Which of the two gifs do you think is sexier? The noodle gif or the gif showing the power couple?
For me, it’s the noodle gif. There’s something about that wrist roll… lol. The noodles are swirling like bodies are grinding.
Enjoy the show!!
Many thanks, @packmule3. I hope that you and yours are well. I’m still living off of the Friday recipes that were posted. Yes, the power couple is okay, but the noodle gif is stunning. If it were the finger flick, though….
Thanks for the new thread @PM3!! More spicy oil in the noodles to reach 1 million scoville (spiciest scale) to make it hotter.
Oh, @Janey, that was the funniest variation on a p*ssing contest between men I’ve seen yet.
@Fern, CY was the ultimate spiciness winner!!! Those 2 guys were scoville-lacking.
You are so right @Janey. She’s the clear winner, although not competing. It reminded me of my husband, saying how much he loves really spicy Indian food, unaware of the little bead of sweat on his temple.
The Scoville scene was brilliant. I found it hilarious, particularly when Vincenzo says “Don’t talk to me” right at the end. One can only imagine what might be going on in his innards at that point. On the whole, I think Joon-Woo comes out first male in the spice stakes, but he doesn’t get Cha-Young’s arm around him going home.
I only watched the first episode and stopped, but I was blown away by the lovely ‘scenery’… but I came across this. It was just CGI!!!
(;´༎ຶ益༎ຶ`)
https://www.allkpop.com/article/2021/03/it-wasnt-filmed-in-italy-viewers-impressed-with-the-jaw-dropping-cg-for-the-drama-vincenzo
Well that was some swell CGI!
ლ(▀̿̿Ĺ̯̿̿▀̿ლ)
(❁´▽`❁)*✲ﾟ*
Thanks @GB for the link. I don’t read much about kdrama I’m watching outside of BoD so this is helpful.
The CGI is impressive and seamless. I thought it was done pre COVID. I have to rewatch (hahaha!) and look at it in a more critical eye. There’s a vertical shot shown horizontally with a x in the middle of the atrium of the beautiful old building as he walked by that I really liked. I don’t see that type of shot normally. It’s included in the CGI examples in the article.
Let us know your thoughts on the show. 😊
@growingB i’ve seen that too first thing i got my phone…many of us coned🤣🤣
As per the latest episode,indeed hilariously colliding on the court room lol. The director / writer must have watched SJK previous dramas. The con artist Kang maru from “the nice guy” no different to V using his appeal n IQ to negotiate😅🤣
I can’t see romance forming to our main leads. Taecheon, never thought he is this cunning! I wonder if he have mental disorder…
I’ll be here each ep. Thanks for this thread🤗🤗
@GB, I suspected the CGI at that point when the fire hit the ground and spread in the first episode. That looked too consistent. What I did not expect is the extent of CGI there is. I also wondered how they filmed in Italy and the amazing part is that besides the fire, everything else looked so real and seamless. Well…that is the future of film, you can do anything everything with CGI. :O
@SeanZhan, I think there will be a romance, though it is not the big part of the show…like Memories of Alhambra? But we are seeing clues, all the smiles Vincenzo makes, that finger flick moment, Chayoung asking if V is going to stay. These are little clues even though it is not that obvious now. She will move him, I’m sure.
Taecheon is beyond villian, psychotic maybe? One who doesn’t have a moral compass?
@GB, thank you for that link. So interesting. It still makes me want to go to Italy. I was thinking how expensive those locations would have been to film at, although I’m not sure CGI is much less costly.
@Fern> You must visit Italy! So many beautiful cities. Venezia will rest one of my best and outstanding memories. If you like Renaissance, Italy is the place!
@Sayaris, I am fortunate to have visited different areas in Italy. I’m just greedy and want to go now but can’t. As wonderful as it is to go there on vacation, there is nothing quite like visiting people who live there. Most tourists would never see a beautiful courtyard like the one Vincenzo crosses or would never see the inside of an Italian house.
Thanks for the new thread! 🙂
I really like this show and personally even if there’s no love line, I’m happy with that but CY is already falling so it’s fine.
Now even the residents wants the gold. LOL!
Are you sure Queen you don’t want to see Taec Yeon as the bad guy? I think he does a great job. 🙂
No love line? Are you sure? With Song Joonki? 😜
Taecyeon as a bad guy isp new. He used to play Mr Clean (lol the the cleanser) so being the antagonist should be fun for him. He can let go and not worry about his squeaky clean image.
hahaha yes, I don’t want a love line because I want him for myself. Evil LOL!
Try and watch snippets of Taecyeon here, he is very good as a villain. 🙂
@Agdr03 – There is actually a love line… the power of love! 😂 V and the bank’s head had a literal male romance – set to influence and remove the support of the bank in giving loans to Babel. As the guy gets enamored with V, so does CY (cue in V horseback riding – can match LeeGon). I do hope V and CY gets a love line. They are cute together.
Taecyeon’s American accent is so good! Apparently he grew up in the US, in Boston. He is convincing as a psycho villain.
I was off with my theory on Gilbert but pretty close. He witnessed the massacre of the men involved in transferring the gold to the safe. He heard that there was gold and told the plaza residents but he does not know exactly where in the building are they hidden. Now they don’t want to leave and are trying to snoop through the building and to look for the gold.
We get art reference of Liberty Leading the People painting by Delacroix as it gets parodied as the tableau of the plaza residents fighting off the eviction gang. Well done!!! Victory!
@Janey, the power of love was funny 😆 V did his part with so much reluctance but he changed when he heard how banker’s Mom witnessed the whole accident between her husband and V’s Mom.
How many seconds was that appreciation scene of V riding and getting off a horse. I’m like CY there. 🥰
Yes! The residents scene depicted as Delacroix’s painting was good too. 😁
There were so many funny moments in these episodes. V getting scared by the make-up video; the bank chairman mother channelling QE2 complete with corgis; V having to ride the carousel with the banker seated very closely behind him; CY teasing V about his mafia connections; both the banker and CY (and agdr03) swooning over V on horseback; the tenants sneaking around the basement, with or without metal detectors…
I think that Taecyon makes a great villain because he slides back and forth between wacky and psycho as easily as he moves between English and Korean. There was one scene when both he and CY were flouncing around — more alike in some ways than she would have thought. He is also not letting anyone see his real feelings in public. I wonder when V will figure it out? Why has no one known that there are 2 sons, especially if T is the elder and it was known that he studied abroad?
I’m really impressed by the evil Myung-hee. She’s not your typical glossy manicured B, is she? She seems to have a lot of imagination and few chinks in her armour. I liked when she lost it and Taecyon, rather than getting angry, was excited by her energy. Those 2 united are Trouble.
Hi @Fern, swooning girl here 😜
True, even I’m scared of Myung-hee. 😬 I want to bet she’ll be the one who’ll get V’s Mom killed.
I can’t decide which suit of V I like the most. 😆
I think we have a salient point in episode 8, when Vincenzo says: “Those who harm or hurt others don’t deserve to love. For them, love is nothing but an accessory.” At this point, the background music is what I’m taking to be Vincenzo’s “theme”, first used in episode 1. We keep hearing it. There’s an awful lot of backstory behind that utterance. Cha-Young asks: “Then do you deserve to love?” which Vincenzo answers with one of his impenetrable looks and a slight Italian-style shrug.
I’m puzzled by Vincenzo’s reaction to the plan that he should become “un homme fatal” in order to form a relationship with Min-Seong. I should have thought this bit of character-play would be right up V’s street. Remember the seductive pheromones he turns on for the Director Gil’s wife? But no; he reacts as though he’s been told to swim in a cess-pit. Admittedly, Min-Seong seems to be a vile person, but surely nothing that Vincenzo can’t handle. And I wonder why the director has presented Min-Seong almost as a sympathetic character who doesn’t really deserve the disappointment that he suffers, nor manhandling by zombies.
But our hero acquiesces, and the result is that hilarious equestrian scene, where Cha-Young is completely mesmerised by V’s overt sexiness, not to mention Min-Seong. I thought Lee Min-Ho had raised the horse-riding stakes too high for anyone to beat, but I agree with @Janey; this scene (floating scarf and all) brings Song Joong-Ki to join Lee Min-Ho at the top of that particular ladder.
I thought it a touch of absolute brilliance to end the scene with the shot of the horse Nearsen munching the carrot that Cha-Young dropped.
So, what am I looking forward to next? Perhaps the hackers from Shanghai will put in an appearance.
@Juriel, I thought the same about V’s statement and CY’s query. It reflected something he said about or to his mother much earlier. Yes, there is blood on his hands – the men who died after burying the gold for example. They were killed as a precaution, rather than as a punishment, weren’t they? Is he avoiding a relationship to punish himself or to protect CY? Will he have to become a hero or atone in order to have that freedom?
I thought that Vincenzo was just very uncomfortable pretending to be gay and receiving attention from a gay man, although he could pretend to be attracted to a woman. TBH, I thought that it was a bit weird for CY to be pushing him into that situation. A means to an end for her, I think. But V’s discomfort was funny, too.
Min-Seong was a curious character. We didn’t see any of the violence he allegedly was capable of, although we know that he approved of his mother not calling the ambulance for his nasty philanderer father and can even sort of empathise with that. Except for the part where the housekeeper was blamed; why was that even necessary? We saw him being rather pitiful and vulnerable to love. I mean, waiting outside V’s office at all hours under his rainbow umbrella and begging him for help from the zombies. It could be down to that actor having a rather sympathetic face? So I agree, his character wasn’t all black and white.
Speaking of sexual misdeeds, Myung-hee is caught again being asked to defend the executive from the prosecutors’ office. She had refused when she quit. She looks mighty cross about that. I wonder that she can be offended by him, but not support the housekeeper (V’s mother) in her case?
Who is V’s biological father? I wonder each time a man of that age range comes forward.
Wouldn’t it be funny if the hackers were one of the teams from Run On?
I’ve been wondering about Vincenzo’s biological father too. His mother knows, but she’s not saying, although by now I think she recognises Vincenzo as being her son.
I really hope we get to see the hackers, and it would be nice if they were familiar faces.
I found V’s discomfort with trying to seduce MinSeong pretty hilarious. I am thinking that scenes is what got a M18 rating? The first meeting with MinSeong was filled with se*ual innuendo, in the wrong place that makes it quite funny. I shudder like V, nonetheless.
Also anyone notice that MinSeong’s mum and her corgis remind you of Queen Elizabeth, right to the dressing and hat! She is the real matrirach of the bank. I don’t think we will see them anymore since this is a cameo.
And the reference to TaeHo and Victory, the spaceship they were riding on at the amusement park was referencing to Space Sweepers. Gosh they are milking all the references they can, ain’t they?
I am hoping for a love line though…there are hints but subtle. All the smiles that V does after CY’s craziness, the forehead finger flick, the questions CY has been probing V.
On another note, I am not sure how JoonWoo’s evilness will show. He is cold-blooded, and raging with a split-personality.
Lastly, there is a lot of acting and deception. CY pretends to be sad or emotional to get what she wants. JoonWoo pretends to be a cutesy intern so that he be in the know of what is happening at Wusang. Vincenzo pretends to be a fan to Chairman Jang to get a sense of who he is, he pretends (unwillingly) to be attracted to MinSeong to get back at him. Even MyungHee’s crystal balls were not spared when they created an impression that they were killed.
So many secrets to keep, so many things to hide, literally even the gold under the building is a secret…somewhat.
Duh to myself!!! That’s why TaeHo sounded so familiar. Thanks @Grace for the Space Sweepers references.
I am still hopeful for a love line. As V will come to terms with his mom, he will be able to open his heart to love. My visual cue on how he will be as CY’s boyfriend: when they went to bail out the residents in the police station after their Liberte tableau – the way he held her cute bag in front of him while she banged the drums to get their attention… that’s the look of a guy who is besotted. That was cute!
That was such a funny moment!
Gosh, they didn’t waste any time with the Space Sweepers reference, did they?
I was a bit confused about the ‘stay of execution’ thing with V’s mother. I didn’t think she was on death row. I know that she is dying and the doctors are considering giving her comfort measures to stop her pain as much as possible. I shall have to re-watch.
The power of love 🤣🤣 This two had collaboration back in Arthdal chronicles which is makes me lol bec the exchange roles🤣
@grace i still don’t see any affection on V part. The way he smiled seems just fascinated by her weird personality. As a Mafia’s lawyer probably never encounter a female lawyer like her. But I’m sure she’s growing fond of him.
For Taecheon, i think he is not the big boss.
I can’t help but think falling in love and accepting he is deserving of love (both romantic and non-platonic love) is part of Vincenzo’s personal journey – but he needs to let go of his anger first.
I see him at the beginning of the story. He has nowhere to call home. Italy is not his home – Italians do not accept him as Italian (as evidenced by the vineyard scene). Back in Korea, no one pronounces his name correctly and he’s like a duck out of water. He tells CY there’s nothing in Korea for him to want to stay (not yet anyway).
(side note: the intern villain interestingly is the only one who pronounces his name correctly – I have a theory about that. Could it be that he has heard V’s name before? Are they related somehow? Stepbrothers perhaps? I have noted he very openly admires V’s creativity and cunningness).
In episode 6, he has a discussion with one of the buddhas after bearing a cross. Mind you, I thought this was a telling scene. Jesus bore the cross to atone for his sins. NB: note to self to give this more thought later.
Anyway, V asks the buddha if were he to move to an island somewhere in the middle of the ocean, will he be able to let go of his anger (his plan is to go to Malta after he gets hold of the gold)? The buddha answers it doesn’t matter where he lives. What matters is whether he still has the anger in him or not. V then asks if that means if he needs to achieve enlightenment. The buddha says the only way he’ll find peace is to fight his anger. Stand your ground and fight back, he adds: enlightenment is what you achieve when you win that battle.
So how will V achieve his so-called (and clearly longed for) enlightenment?
V’s anger and suffering. What does it relate to? I think it relates to his mother’s abandonment which has left the biggest mark on him. This was clear from the scene where he cried on the bridge and smoked a cigarette after seeing her in hospital. Note how when he killed the 3 men in his room in episode 1, he sat on the sofa and also pulled out a cigarette, ready to smoke, but then threw it away. The point I took from those two scenes is that him being abandoned by his mother is what angers / hurts him the most.
I personally think he will learn his mother had no choice but to abandon him – she did it out of love for a reason we will soon learn about. I wonder if she’s protecting him by pretending not to recognise him in the hospital. Their last conversation to me indicated she knows who he is.
Does he need to let go of the gold? I am still on the fence about this. But clearly he needs to keep up the fight against Babel right now to help get rid of his anger. Then the answer to defeating Babel perhaps lies with his mother somehow.
Sorry for my stream of consciousness writing, just a few more random thoughts:
+ He said in ep 1 ‘regret is the most painful thing in life’. Then he told CY after she scolded her father before he died: ‘All the criticisms children give their parents will come back as regrets’. Is he speaking from experience? Or is this foreshadowing? Will he soon learn his mother abandoned him to protect him? Not because she didn’t love him?
+ V has now twice warned CY about punches from behind. He told her it’s the mafia’s motto that the strongest punch comes from behind in one episode. Then in episode 8 he warned her it is dangerous to startle a horse from behind, because it could kick you. Heavy foreshadowing me thinks. I thought it was interesting that when V grabbed the investment banker’s (forgot the name, sorry) neck to remove a piece of fluff he wasn’t startled at all (ergo easy to con). Then when CY later did the same to V in the stables, he immediately jumped up and kicked so to speak. Will CY heed V’s advice or end up startling an enemy and have it blow up in her face?
+ Super interesting conversation between CY and V in ep 8 V: “You know how to play hard to get like a true Mafia” CY: “I guess LOVE is to blame” V: “YOU’RE responsible for this” They were talking about the stunt they pulled with the investment banker, or were they?????? Will V be ‘playing hard to get’ with CY to protect her life and keep her safe from him in more ways than one? First, knowing that he thinks he does not deserve to love / her love? Second, because she’d become an immediate target if they were ever to get romantically involved.
+ V is clearly CY’s type. In one of the first scenes between CY and the evil intern she tells him her type is a sophisticated man. I mean, that’s Vincenzo, he is as sophisticated as they come (mind you, she also said she doesn’t date men she works with :).
+ When the investment banker in ep 8 in the bar asks V if he has ever met a stranger and felt like he’s met his soulmate – V immediately looked at Cha Young.
Great comments, and thank you @rh. You put into words many of the things I had been thinking.
Regarding JW’s pronunciation of V’s name, I thought he might have had connections with the mafia in America. (Thinking back to his connection to the Boston lawyer who was going to open an office in Seoul.) The character seems to have a gift with accents.
I had one of those middle of the night thoughts and it has to do with figuring out who V’s father is of all of the middle-aged men who have been presented to us so far. It meshes with your thought that he and the Jang brothers could be related. @Seanzhan theorised that JW wasn’t the big boss of Babel, so I was wondering who could be? How ironic and messy that would be!
The idea you put forth of nowhere to call ‘home’ is a very common experience for some adoptees and particular for those adopted away from their homeland and/or ethnic group. They can go back to their birth environment, but culturally they fit more with their adoptive location. It must be so sad and frustrating.
Not universal but well known is a thing called attachment disorder after adoption. I wouldn’t say that Vincenzo suffered from it in relation to his adoptive parents – it seems to me that he became fond of them and honoured them. But it may affect his trust in relationships with others, an expectation that he doesn’t deserve love and that he can’t trust that people will stay indefinitely by his side.
On a tangent, besides CY’s father and his mother, who else might know that V is related to his mother? I can only think of the law clerk in the Jipuragi firm who is dating someone.
I think V will resist CY right to the end until her life is at stake then he’ll go for it. 😊
I hope V will be able to reconcile with his Mom. She definitely knows him.
Yeah, that look that he gave her after being asked that question. Soulmate might be apt because CY is smart enough to know/read things about him even though he’s never been an open book to them except to know that he’s a lawyer in Italy. She can read him perfectly except on the gold bars worth billions. 😂
They are cute together so I’m waiting for the first kiss. 😜
@rh I hope you don’t mind my making this comment, but Jesus was a man without sin, and because of this he was able to redeem all the sins of humanity by dying on the cross. By carrying his cross, he showed his willingness to make this sacrifice. But like you, I thought the image of the Buddhist monk bearing the Christian cross was very powerful, and did you notice in the next scene, the cross was disappearing lightly behind the hedge? It seemed to have lost its heaviness.
I know very little about Buddhism, but the idea of fighting your way towards a goal (enlightenment) is perhaps more Christian than Buddhist. At the moment, Monk Jeokha’s words are not sitting very comfortably with me, but we’ll see what Vincenzo does with the advice.
I think you’re absolutely right regarding the foreshadowing coming through Vincenzo’s references to the “punch from behind”. And you’re even more right when you link that with the danger coming from horses’ rear hooves if they’re startled. So there was nothing romantic in Vincenzo sweeping Cha-Young into his arms – it was a purely pragmatic impulse, but she enjoyed it. And I can tell you; a hind kick from a horse is indeed painful.
I’m becoming increasingly fascinated by Joon-Woo. He’s having to move more and more out of his naive intern character and take on the role of the unstable genius villain. The particularly interesting thing is that sometimes he has to work to retain his ascendancy over his brother, Chairman Jang Han-Seo. There must come a time when the young Chairman will master his fear and will rebel against his older brother. He’s already thought about cutting his puppet strings. I wonder when Joon-Woo’s significance will hit Vincenzo. At the moment, they are simply rivals.
I love this series, and I’m so glad it’s receiving such attention world-wide. It makes people think as well as giggle.
@Fern I suddenly realised he knows Vincenzo’s name, because CY asked him to run a background check on him.
Like you, I am also interested to know who V’s father is. I am also interested to find out what happened to CY’s mother and why she blames her father for her mother’s death. During one of their fights, she said mentioned he let her mother die on the table. I think there’s going to be a character parallel somehow: V and CY both blaming their respective mother / father for an action(s) they have misinterpreted / misunderstood.
@Juriel thank you so much for correcting me! You are absolutely right of course. I am not well-versed in religion enough to interpret all the religious symbolism in this show. One thing I will mention though: have you noticed the heaven / stars references that runs through the show? For example, the stars on V’s Korean apartment’s ceiling. Also, during meeting in which the evil intern revealed himself as the boss, he was standing in front of a TV screen with stars (before the star wars themed powerpoint kicked in lol). I have also noticed there are quite a few camera shots taken from above (when CY finds her father, shots of her from above in her office, V walking through his Italian apartment etc).
The horse moment I didn’t interpret as romantic either – but definitely as a sign that V is has come to care for CY. I still think we’ll get romance, but not until the near end.
I am excited for the next 2 episodes! This show is the perfect mix of comedy and drama for sure!
I looked up the reference to carrying the cross. According to the New Testament a man named Simon of Cyrene was picked by the soldiers to help Jesus, since it seemed that Jesus might not be able to continue otherwise. Cyrene is in current day Libya in North Africa. There was a sizeable Jewish population there and some travelled to Jerusalem for Passover. So he was a foreigner, like Vincenzo. It’s not an exact parallel, but I like how it was woven into the story.
@Juriel, I wonder about Joon-woo and his brother as well. Han Seo thinks he can cut his strings, but what happens to a puppet whose strings are cut? It falls into a motionless heap. Also, I wonder how much he has been conditioned to respond as his brother did. The hockey scene with the Babel senior executives was just as unpleasant as when he was himself beaten by Joon-Woo.
I’ve been used to seeing Kwak Dong-Yeon in more dynamic roles, but it may be that he was cast differently here. His character is very complex. He really doesn’t seem to react in an intelligent way, does he? He is constantly outsmarted and bullied by his brother and that must be both frightening and frustrating. I think he’s constantly trying to cope but his loyalty to his brother against outsiders may stay firm. I wouldn’t say that he has Stockholm syndrome, but may turn out to be like a spouse who is abused but can’t quite bring him or herself to get away from the situation. I would like him to get away from his brother though because it will be grim for him otherwise. We’ll see.
@Fern, Joonwoo actually nicknamed his brother Han-Seo, a Marionette in ep9, besides calling him his achilles heel, foreboding how he can potentially betray JoonWoo. As much as Han-Seo is loyal and trying his best to please Joonwoo, there will come a time when he will crack. I wonder what he will do with the pistol of his…to play Russian roulette.
Inzaghi is the other nickname given to the pesky pigeon coo-ing at Vincenzo’s bedroom window 😛 The pigeon has a message on it’s foot…this blue ribbon. Will it be something more than just a pesky pigeon?
Anyway ep9 is getting darker with more deaths, violent ones and planned ones. The expected romantic advances that wasn’t was quite funny. The part where Vincenzo unbuckled his seat belt to open her door to hint at her to alight the car, was misread by her. haha..and then there was ramyeon and the staying over which was expected of the drama troupe.
I am also understanding the drama better through the lyrics for Adrenaline OST (in English & Italian)
“Adrenaline rushing through my veins
I forgot all the pain
I drink , lit , drip for life
To lose my sight of emptiness
Try everything to forget cause
I might lose my control
Questions you ask too much
Just ’cause you might be
Getting hurt
No one to trust
I don’t know what i should want,
I don’t know where to go
Fire, rising up to higher
I’m buring up it’s dire
I don’t wanna burn you so leave
I don’t wanna keep you to be a liar
Don’t wanna hurt you
You should leave me
I’m no good for you
So leave me now
Please, leave me now
I can’t keep you sane
Another world
If there’s a chance, I’ll take
More money more love
I got everything I don’t need more
I won’t tell you who i am
It’s you to figure out from the inside my heart.”
The first OST is called “Ombra mai fu” or “Largo from Xerxes”. The title translates from Italian as “Never was a shade”. Anyone remember when it was played?
I like this drama—especially when using the Ffwd button.
I loved episode 9 because it was darker with only some silly. JW is nuts. I wish they would go ahead and start the romance with V and CY because there’s going to be a lot to work through before I believe a happy ending and there’s only 11 episodes left…Although I guess this isn’t considered a romance so that’s not the objective anyway.
It’s my first time to ever watch the actress playing CY and sometimes she’s too over the top (reminds me of annoying Suzy) but she was much more enjoyable this episode. One thing that is constant-she has a fabulous power walk.
@grace, I just watched ep. 9 and I saw that on Joonwoo’s phone. I wasn’t sure what was in the report that Han Seo gave to JW.
Wow, did you see JW’s face when he saw that CY stayed over at V’s house? Alarms went off in my head.
The brothers are both psychos as far as I can tell, but Joon Woo has the lead. The hockey stick attacks are going to me nightmares. And he says he will go after the prosecutor’s young son in Italy. He wants a competition with V rather than quick destruction, because in a sick way he’s rather enjoying the adventure.
Is Inzaghi an inside joke in Italian? I know that there’s a football manager and former player with that name.
Ah, thank you for the Adrenaline OST. Such good and fitting lyrics for V. Because of his past he doesn’t dare to get involved with anyone he cares about. But it’s coming out bit by bit, 2 questions at a time.
Ep 9 is darker and the gruesome death by hockey stick is shocking. No amount of sweet or cute V and CY scenes can dampen that down so I’m glad they did not do that.
JW as evil villain seems to like to do the killing himself and get his hands dirty. He is psycho this way but also unapologetically evil and he enjoys it. That makes him a formidable enemy. V guessed it when he said the death was calculated vs sloppy job of the guys who broke in to CY’s house. In reality Ms Choi and the Wusang head, and Hansel also crossed the evil line although they do not do the actual killings. Ms Choi is willing to go all the way.
Also very sad for the 4 people who took their lives. 😢 very heartbreaking.
Hello @Grace, The first time we hear “Ombra mai fu” is just after lawyer Hong Yu-Chan has been killed at the beginning of Episode 4. It also comes back in Episode 8, as the platform carrying the two executives rises to stage level. But this time, it’s only the instrumental introduction to the aria that is heard.
@grace, I wonder when V will see the ribbon on the pigeon. From the first, the pigeon seemed tame — I wonder who was the former tenant? Is it a message for them or for Vincenzo?
@Janey, JW shocked everyone, but I agree that Myung-hee and the Wusang head are culpable, too. Myung-hee says as much and there’s no backing out now that the violence has become closer to their realities. I have to re-watch (although I will skip the hockey stick bit). When Joo Woon finally takes the mask off, does the Chief prosecutor see his face? I also worry that Han Seo says that he was shocked but continues to learn from JW’s actions.
The ending scenes were such a contrast – the car out in the wastelands with 4 bodies mixed with footage of the villains enjoying their lives. The one with JW playing with the architectural model of the Babel building was very creepy. He is a megalomaniac.
Did the families also kill the un-corrupt prosecutor? I couldn’t see the faces of any of the victims in the safe house except for the doctor. I wonder how they traced the doctor to that place?
I agree with everyone that it was a dark episode but especially sad for the four people who took their own lives. 😞 I couldn’t see exactly what they used in the vehicle but did V recognised something there?
I feel Han Seo will use that Russian roulette to JW.
I’m glad V visited his Mom again and made her feel that she needs to be taken care off. I’m a bit put off by his loud voice though. That’s why the doctor hung his head going out. 😁
@Fern, I believe the honest prosecutor was killed too, he was the one near the main door. Maybe they had someone tail him to find out the safe house.
I love sweet potatoes but apparently it’s not a good sign and it showed on those three occasions. 😁
I had a laugh when the ramyeon got smashed in V’s face. 😆 Poor thing.
That taking off the seatbelt trope was hyped up but the slow motion bit made it 😍
It’s just me but I find V hot whenever he takes out his frustrations like the incident with Inzhagi. 🤣
@agdr03, it looked like a charcoal burner of some sort. If used in an enclosed space, the carbon monoxide it creates will kill.
I would like Han Seo to be the one to kill JW. It would be poetic justice in a way and no one else would share the blame. He certainly has his reasons.
I agree about V’s loud voice. He startled everyone and took it out on the doctor. I sort of think it’s showing that he is a bit out of control in regards to his feelings about his mother. Cha Young is going to figure their relationship out, isn’t she? I’m surprised that the paralegal didn’t know, as he must have been at her trial and it was said that she had relinquished a child? V has figured out, due to her medical history, that she had serious cancer when she gave him up for adoption and this will really affect the way he sees her.
Same with me and sweet potatoes. I’m glad it’s not a superstition here because I love sweet potato fries and roasted, too.
Yes, the seatbelt trope. I saw CY’s hopeful reaction. But then all I could think was, lazy guy – should have come out and opened the door for her like a gentleman rather than reaching across. It seemed out of character.
The couple who startled the burglars at V’s apartment were so funny. They had been hiding their champion fighting backgrounds very well. “Clean — and Jerk!”
We know how you feel about V. 😈😍
@Juriel, thanks for pointing to where the song is! I’ve got to go listen to it again. Pretty apt for the scenes for Lawyer Hong who was probably like the shade of the plane tree? He was a comfort to those who needed him.
“Tender and beautiful fronds
of my beloved plane tree,
let Fate smile upon you.
May thunder, lightning, and storms
never disturb your dear peace,
nor may you by blowing winds be profaned.
Never was a shade
of any plant
dearer and more lovely,
or more sweet.”
@Fern, maybe V was too distraught to notice the pigeon’s blue ribbon. 😛 you know how everything becomes a blur when you are in a panic.
I believe Babel orchestrated the killing of the Director and the 4 people in the car. Now we know they have good intel of what is happening.
I believe most of V’s anger stems from his abandonment and his lashing out is part anger at his mum and part worry.
Off to watch ep10 now…catch up later!
@grace, you may be right about the Babel killing the director. I hope so. It makes more sense. The phone message sent to CY made me think that the families killed the Director and those with him and then themselves. Tragic either way. When I saw the scene of V looking for the director, opening the door and touching the doorframe, I wanted to yell, don’t leave fingerprints! I was thinking that surely V and CY would be considered suspects.
Haha. The last glimpse of V’s bedroom there were 3 pigeons. I wonder how many more will join the party?
We had a pigeon come into our house once. It fell down the chimney. It was a lot less calm than Inzaghi and I had to throw a blanket over it to get it out, despite opening a window and door for it to exit. It was not very intelligent, in other words. Within a day, it had fallen down our next door neighbour’s chimney and was stuck in her house. She reacted a bit more like V and CY. I felt smug and superior. 😊
Sorry, that last was well off topic!
Dearest @packmule3,
Please could you start another open thread for Vincenzo? Not necessarily today, but perhaps later this week? We are still enjoying the ride.
Do you know any native Italians? I was wondering if calling a tenacious, clingy pigeon Inzaghi is an inside joke. I know that there’s a football manager in Italy with that name.
Cheers,
PF
@Fern, “CE” in Italian is pronounced as “CHE” not “S-E” like an English pronunciation. Vincero (I will win – I being Vincenzo who is a male – Vincera with an A for me who is a female) will be pronounced as Vin-CHE-Ro. Similarly Vin-CHEN-TzO there’ll also be a small “t” pronounciation. I don’t know how ok-ty (the villan) does it coz I read the subtitles and not actually listen to the dialogues.
P.S. one needn’t know the Mafioso (Italian for a mafia) to know this 😉
One thing I love about portrayal of the couple is that they stress more on friendship and less on romance. What is romance without friendship? But a soggy noodle without the chilly oil or an interesting broth. An overcooked pasta if you will (oh the horror).
That’s not true here.
She keeps him in her arms but her arms are open. He is free. She understands he might have killed. She understands he might leave. She is still his friend – an equal partner in a dangerous game where she probably wouldn’t mind dying for him. But she still doesn’t force herself as a romantic interest. Just a friend that he is willingly letting in.
“The breadth of the soul is in our hands” (A russian saying for Cha Young’s handshakes to hugs)
@Fern Vincenzo comes from the verb Vincere (Vincere being the native form which you’d transform as VincerA for a woman and VincerO for a man)
Vincere means to conquer. ☺️
Also, I came across an interesting theory on the name Babel. I’m sorry if this has already been discussed elsewhere. Apparently, the name roots in ancient babilon wherein the human race wanted to built a tower so tall that the top would reach the heavens (the tower ok-ty keeps looking at in ep 9?) Ultimately, God fails this plan by causing confusion of different languages amongst the residents and scattering them across the globe. Thus, the tower of Babel never reached reality.
I suppose the moral is a warning against God complex and vein pride for humans ?
In the context of the drama, the failure of Babel is written in its name. Ditto for Vincenzo. What remains to be seen is at what cost to him? I suppose that’ll be Cha Young.
@Arihsi, I guess we could say their fates are written in the stars – or names. Che sera, sera.
Do you recall anything about Inzaghi?
@Fern, my fave of the month is fried sweet potatoes. I’m so glad that superstition means nothing to us here too. LOL.
I agree, I think at some point CY will realize the V is Ms. Oh’s son and that V’s feeling towards her are changing already. I can’t wait to watch episode 10 tonight.
@Arihsi, it is chilling to think that man would see themselves like a god, even though it is an idea that has been prevalent through history in the Roman, Chinese and Korean kings who see themselves as god. The idea of ruling the world and gaining ultimate power is not new. Following the story of Babel, I wonder what will be the point when their ‘language’ be confused. Babel means a confused situation. OR it could also mean that they are morally confused, not differentiating between right and wrong. OR it is also within their team they are not totally united. The Wusang chairman is petrified, HanSeo is petrified, they may crack at some point.
@Fern, your pigeon visitor was so funny. I guess it has a message for your neighbour now 😛 Pigeons were traditionally messenger birds although they are pesky ones these days. They have an internal compass, like most migratory birds. I don’t suppose Inzaghi flew from Italy? 😀
No spoilers/preview on the next ep. What are your thoughts? For me its too early to reveal the real big boss. Unless it tends to make alliance with them? My hunch_the lawyers who works with Babel may joined forces with the acting chairman to pinned down the real one.
Ahh V last parring enemy would be the owner of the vineyard i guess.
Sweet potato/Inzaghi is it just me laughed out loud when they appear on screen?
The man who worked with the real owner of the gold seems to be a bad guy,too?
@Fern, the un-corrupt prosecutor is still alive. My mistake. I thought it was him at the entrance to the main door.
@grace is right. Babel was behind the killing of the Doctor and the 4 family victims. 😞 It’s Han Seo that brought the information on those 4 people to JW.
Hmm, V becoming Inzhagi on live streaming, does it mean that maybe later he won’t be able to leave as well just like the pigeon in his bedroom?
I thought the broadcast was a hoot! 😁
V cooing to Ms Choi. 😆
Mr Tak with his scissors skills. Daebak 😱😵
We get a hug and that 1 second pause to not return it.
I agree, I think V will not say who exactly is Babel’s boss yet. But JW is definitely getting jealous.
@grace, hoping that Inzaghi flew from Italy had me laughing. Perhaps if he were an albatross. Lol.
@agdr03, yes, I’m glad that the families didn’t kill themselves, but it is still horrible. Han Seo got that report on them together for his JW, who still put him down for his methods.
Eww, that scene of JW looking at Vincenzo’s past violent acts and getting more and more excited and happy. It’s such a game for JW, right? And comparing himself to a god emphasizes the Babel name.
All of the tenants who had special skills, but concealed them are showing off, one by one. I’m waiting to see the piano lady’s computer skills now.
@agdr03, I hope that V won’t say who Babo is, because those who know will end up dead up for spoiling his fun. That is, until the point he chooses to reveal himself or is revealed by another.
@agdr03, i believe so! The pigeons are foreshadowing V desire to stay or leave Korea?
At first when he chased it away, it flew away, at then his heart was certain he was leaving.
The second time it happened, there was 2 pigeons? I think. He managed to chase it away again. He was still quite sure he was leaving. By then there was CY in his life but he still told her flatly that he will leave.
The third time it happened, it refused to leave so it hung out at the house till his house got broken in and all the pigeons came in. Actually there was 3 in the end. Is the third one Joonwoo?
The last time it happened, it was because CY opened the window while cleaning the room. V exasperatedly says, “Inzaghi, you break in whenever I open the window!” I wanted to laugh so hard now cos CY is breaking into his heart every time he softens his heart to her (opening the window), which he, in principle knew he should not do.
I’m sure V will find it hard to leave Korea because of his attachment to that place and especially the people.
Loving the gradual romance, his holding back and the hug too! And the snow background! Though it wasn’t the first snow because it was also snowing when they discovered the 4 victims dead in their car. I felt CY’s panic when she couldn’t reach V on the way there but Joonwoo’s presence made it more scary because it is going to be apparent to him that CY will be V’s weakness.
Loved V & CY’s conversation while drinking the rice wine and remembering Lawyer Hong.
@Fern, yes, it was horrible the way JW was looking at those killing pictures of V. I can totally see him being the total devil and the fact that there was people killed made him extra happy so that makes him evil to the max. LOL.
True, I wonder what’s the other talent the other tenants have. Oh and V’s partner in the gold, it looks like his going to be a bad guy too. Someone mentioned it here.
@grace, I’d like an ending where V, CY, Mr Nam and the tenants will still live in the same building. 🙂 I’d be happy with that. Yes, these people will be the one that will make V stay in Korea for sure.
The gradual romance is good for me too. I liked that scene after the rice wine drinking where CY was looking at a sleeping V then vice versa. Their conversation was good and having V smiling was nice to see.
hehehe you’re Inzhagi and V connection is great. That’s probably another reason why he didn’t want to wear the pigeon mask and maybe he knew it too? LOL. Oh yes, I feel the third pigeon is JW unless more pigeons comes then those will be the tenants. hahahaha
@agdr03, I liked the camera work when they were drinking makgeolli. From above, when they were both sleeping in the same position with their right arms outstretched, it looked like a yin-yang symbol – or the Korean flag.
I wondered a bit about who suggested the pigeon mask for V. It must have been CY as she was the only one who knew about Inzaghi?
@grace, If, with your theory, Inzaghi is a female, I suppose that if the 3rd pigeon is a male, it could be a rival for the other (2nd) pigeon. I love the idea of CY coming in every time V opens the window. He is certainly having a hard time evicting her from his apartment…
If the other pigeon is a female, it could be his mother joining their flock?
@Fern, I like that, yin-yang symbol. 🙂
The pigeon mask can only come from CY, she’s the only on who knows about it. hehehe
@arishi i like how u elaborates ur view on the later part. To add that its kind of relieved to saw him unscathed. Probably can’t afford to see any more casualties since Vincenzo is a bit special. Like u said a friend or partner on the battle to pinned down the enemy. But i noticed V’s tighten fist. How was that ment for? A growing feelings that he can’t define just yet?
Ahh a love that has no reason which he once said he’d prefered? 😀😅
@SeanZhan the tightened fist shows his internal struggle.
On the one hand, he is moved by her concern and worry for him. On the other hand, he is still fighting the urge to let her into his heart (a fight which is clear he is losing given what’s happened over the last few episodes) for three reasons.
First, he does not believe he deserves to love because he is a rotten apple. Note the sweet potato scene though. CY believes half-burnt sweet potatoes are still edible.
Second, he is afraid to get hurt by others as a result of his mother’s abandonment which is why he says he prefers to be alone.
Third, he knows allowing her get close to him will inherently put her life in danger.
She also does not yet know the full extent of what he is capable of and he knows she will see him in a different light once she finds out he is a killer. It was telling that he asked her in episode 9 if she’d cut ties if she knew he had killed someone. He lied because he wants to keep her close to him a bit longer. This was evident from the fact that he’s let her stay at his apartment despite knowing her window had already been fixed.
Those are my 2 cents. Ultimately, the heart wants what the heart wants. I am curious to see how their relationship unfolds. There is a lot we do not know yet, including what happened with CY’s mother. Something tells me V has met CY before the way he stared at her picture.
@rh well said.
Now for my own two cents.
I’m a potterhead. One of my favourite themes of the series (books, not movies. Have watched only the first two.) is Rowling’s take on killing. In the Harry Potter world, killing rips apart your soul. It doesn’t matter who you are. Voldemort was the very embodiment of evil. Killing and murder still tore apart his soul and left him but a shell. Draco Malfoy,the wanna be evil and the wanna be powerful can’t raise a wand to kill and Snape is the ultimate hero because he takes the fall for so many, including killing to protect Draco. Notwithstanding the fact that the “kill” was with consent and pre-arranged to a large extent. It still hurt Snape in ways he couldn’t recover from.
In Vincenzo, Cha Young isn’t a Harbinger of truth and law like her father. She is grey. However, she draws a limit at human torture and outright murder. What is interesting is that she doesn’t care about it in terms of legalities or righteousness (you may kill out of “necessities” she says). Our FL is quite lawless and rash herself. I think when she says she doesn’t want Vin to kill, she wants to protect Vin from himself. Because hurting others, no matter how evil, would hurt *him* (as already evidenced by his nightmares).
With running shoes on her feet, she would probably run in between Vin and his target. Refusing to let him kill. Or maybe with the stone in her hand, she would take the fall of the last blow instead, refusing to let him kill.
I don’t think her intention is his legal protection. She knows he’s done much and more that is illegal. She doesn’t seem the least interested in protection of his target either. I think her intention is protection of his soul – saving him from his own self.
Some more cents 😜
1) I’m waiting for a “breaking point”. We know very little about Vin’s past and how shall I put this… The character seems a bit too stoic for a joogki role ? SGK has a
wide and well honed range of emoting skills and I’m yet to see any of that here. I’m not saying it’s bad, please don’t misunderstand. I’m saying his range hasn’t been explored which I suppose is a compliment for an actor. It’s mostly been “cold blooded”. I don’t think it’ll continue this way. I’m waiting for his character to reach a “breaking point” wherein we get an inside view of who Vincenzo really is and how the heck he got there. His character is going to have to fall apart for SGK the actor to shine (I wept through the father-daughter scenes of space sweepers. His pain was so palpable.)
2) About the photographs… It could very well be him who did all the torture and killings. After all, we know he is capable of murder. However, the circumstances are unknown and crucial to understand why. I hope they put some light on this and don’t leave it hanging. CY will surely refuse his further help and move out of his home if she discovers the photographs. The mandatory break up.
@arihsi I love your cents 🙂
I have a theory about what will happen.
– I think JW and V share a parent, possibly V’s mother. In episode 1, V said he would not kill his half-brother out of respect for his adopted father. This is why I think V will not be the one to kill JW, because he struggles to out of respect for his mother (or biological father?)
– In ep 10, V promises CY to give her the final blow. She buys white shoes especially for the occasion. I think the ACTUAL final blow will be her killing JW. If you have noticed, JW wears white shoes under his suits. There is an episode where someone draws attention to them. I can’t remember exactly who, but a point has been made out of him wearing white shoes.
– In ep 10, when JW calls CY while she’s at V’s, V puts her feet / white shoes on the table. It’s clear he doesn’t like the shoes (he calls them ugly at the start of episode 10)
– Also if you have noticed, there is a heavy use throughout the show of the colours of blue and yellow (especially in the last scenes of episode 10). V’s go to colour is (royal) blue (which symbolizes sophistication and tranquiltity, calmness – which describes the light side of his character / nature). Inzaghi also wears a royal blue tag. In the last scene of episode, there is a heavy mix of blue and yellow colours in the cinematography. I think it’s to show how his darker side has come out following the killing of the researchers
– In episode 4, when CY sees her father’s dead body lying on the floor, the camera angle changes and we see her stepping over a yellow line on the street. I think this means that she’s going to embrace her darker side when it comes to avenging her father’s death.
We’ll see what happens, but that’s where I am right now as to where it’s going 🙂
–
@ahrisi
ps. I totally agree with your point about his “breaking point” – he hasn’t reached it yet, but his internal struggles to fight his feelings for CY are evident as is his uncharacteristic determination to fight Babel (not based on Mafia principles). CY and his quest for revenge has thrown him off his original course of ‘business as usual’ and securing the gold.
I predict he will reach the breaking point soon – I fully expect a parallel scene where CY is the one in danger and I don’t think he will hold back then.
@rh, thank you for noticing the colours. He wore a bright blue suit to the court – the same colour as Inzaghi’s ribbon.
@Ahrisi, thank you for posting about the breaking point. I’m getting anxious just thinking about it.
@SeanZhan, you may know this French saying, ‘le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connaît point’ It is a play on the word reason, meaning justifications in the first part and the rational intellect in the second. So the heart has justifications for those impulses that the mind isn’t acquainted with. I thought of this as soon as Vincenzo mentioned his preference for a love without reason.
@rh looking at traditional kdrama timeline, the breakdown could be anywhere between ep 13-14 given its a 20 ep drama. I’m unsure if it’d stem from loosing his mom or something. I expect CY abduction in the climax. The relationship between them isn’t matured enough till now to raise that type of tension.
@Fern and I were discussing Vin’s parentage. I found her suggestion of a shared biological father between JW, the fake CEO (Han seo ?) And Vin a fair plausibility. It would be so hilarious. The Dad must’ve had some faulty genes to produce not one but three lawless and bloodthirsty men.
What I like about “Vincenzo” is that each episode has a clear focus and narrative. It helps me to follow this very extended storyline. You won’t be surprised when I say that I also like the music score, but I wish I could find out who really is responsible for choosing and applying the “background” music; it’s someone with a wide music knowledge, that’s for sure. AsianWiki and Wikipedia are no help.
Matters are progressing nicely, and Vincenzo’s character is developing as well as I could ever have expected. I find it refreshing to witness Song Joong-ki’s extensive and unusually wide repertoire of small facial expressions; he draws on this a great deal in Episode 9, causing me moments of acute hilarity. He’s good.
I also relish the slower development of Cha-Young’s character. One might expect that her characteristic ebullience will be all that she presents to the camera, but not very far below the surface, fires are burning, and from time to time they show themselves. They are still to break out, and I’m looking forward to their appearance.
I think I know who Babo, the “Capo dei Capi” of the Babel Group may be. I know other people are having their ideas as well. I wonder who will have guessed right in the end.
I am so enjoying this thread. Great thinking, and great comments from everyone.
@Juriel, as to the development of her character, I like Cha Young’s personal questions to Vincenzo and her observations.
I was wondering as well who was responsible for the musical selections and their placement in the drama. I agree that they are very talented.
Capo dei Capi? Hmmmm.
Dear @Fern, and others interested: In Episode 9 (about 52″ in) Babel Chairman Hang Jang-Seo stirs up his terrible brother’s ire over something he has arranged without consultation. I think it’s the raid on Vincenzo’s apartment which didn’t go quite as it should. However, after he has been screamed at and had a glass thrown at him, he calmly returns to his breakfast, and casts a strange glance upwards. Have you any ideas what’s behind this small incident?
@Juriel as per my understanding, that was for attack on Cha Young at her appartment. Han Seo arranged for that without consulting JW. Hints that this was the case: Vin says to CY – the attack was arranged by a single person, shoddy and hastily planned, the purpose was just to maim her and not kill her – thus it can’t be JW.
Later, the brother looks at the pic of Cha Young and wonders why JW blew his gasket now when he killed their own father in cold blood. It’s supposed to hint at JW’s possible feelings for Cha Young. His soft corner towards CY is what has been keeping CY safe for now but JW is completely crazy and a psychopathic murderer. Probably a reason by Vin doesn’t want CY to show affection towards him in JW’s presence. It can be dangerous to have the attention of a violent murderer. Just look at how he abuses his brother (and everyone else around him).
@rh love your observation about the white shoes. I’m all for the possibility of her taking down JW. Although I feel it’ll be in self/Vin’s defence or JW falls from a height or something. I don’t think she’ll outright kill. That would defeat the purpose of the good being better than the evil.
I think CY being the final hero yielding guns is most likely because
Kdramas typically follow a trend. Currently,the trend is strong FLs rescuing MLs. To the extent that one of the goons who came to kill Vin was a woman. I suppose they’re enhancing female representation everywhere 😂 Anyhoo, this trend was visible in IOTNBO, Sisyphus and now is quite possible in Vincenzo. It’d sort of be a nice climax because till now CY has been this quirky and rash female.
Also,she’s wearing those same white shoes when she runs to him. ☺️
I simply want the building to fall down on all of the remaining bad guys. Selfish of me, but tidy. 😈
@Arishi, if Han Seo figures out that JW likes CY, he may also be a threat to CY. What if Han Seo would be one to capture CY, thinking he could taunt his brother with her.
@packmule3, please could you open a new thread for Vincenzo part-3? This one has become VERY long.
Will do! Thanks for telling me. 👍
Vincero is a verb meaning “I will win” but it is neither male nor female. Italian verbs do not have gender so either a male or female would use the same form. Thename Vincenzo has its origin in the Latin/Italian verb, vincere; the feminine version, not much used, is Vincenza on the model of Paulo/Paula or Antonio/Antonia, etc.