The thread is now open for spoilers, and discussions.
Final three weekends! I’m stuck on Episode 9 but will catch up with you. I’ve to jump-start my interest for this show again.
Let’s enjoy the show.
27 Comments On “Sisyphus: Eps 11 & 12 Open Thread”
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I caught bits and pieces of this episode and now I am thinking the writing is brilliant. (I also learned not to go to naver because the spoilers are horrid). The show itself proceeds as a loop; we see the “present” then someone from future gives us hints or info from the future that may be about the “present” then loops to the past that fills in on the motivations, then to the present again. Each time I think there are hints of a slight change in the “present”-which I can’t figure out on which loop we are in- but nothing big; like some quantum theories suggests that all the variables and entropy will resist or minimize change. But at some point the little changes add up and a shift can occur. Especially, it seems shift is possible now that TS is not so egotistical and has some self-reflection.
Intentional or not, Agnes helped make a difference although her regret seems indeed be related to the brothers TaeSan and TaeSul. (I won’t be specific since I don’t want to spoil it)
Park and Asia Mart gang also are affecting the loop while they wait for their loved ones or something to address their regrets, it seems.
Unfortunately work is going to keep me from this show until the weekend so I will “catch up” by seeing all your theories! You guys were right about CB and Sigma. I don’t understand what Sigma wants with the uploader. I would think he would want to change the downloader or move it to go further back in time.
Ep 11 is an emotional roller coaster (or pirate ship ride) of memories. Self reflection and being there to see it yourself was a tough one and it breaks TSul. He realizes what a self centered jerk he was.
And we get a kiss!
But it happened in the memory, while they were “ghosts” in time-space. Does that really count? LOL!
Some answers to questions and more questions to ask. ICB big boss seems to be Sigma. Ugh! Still not clear to me why the advanced team was sent to the past and who sent them. Even if this is a loop, it seems like people are still surprised on what’s to happen. Does that mean there’s a change this time around?
I was not able to finish before work so will check during lunch. Ciao!
hahaha. ICB big boss is Sigma? Did you mean the Big Boss of the Chiefwith the grown-up daughter or the Chief himself?
I told y’all we should keep the alliances separate because we don’t really know who’s helping whom.
At this point, I’m not going to be surprised if Seohae ends up being Sigma herself. Why not? She had Sigma’s calling card. Where did she get that?
Ah. The kiss? Wasn’t this one of the images that she had after she touched Seohae’s dry bones in the coffin in Ep 8? There was also one more image of her aiming the gun at somebody that’s unaccounted for. I thought it could have been her shooting Taesul. That would be the ultimate plot twist.
Thanks @pkml3. I’ve just watched Ep 11 with subs. It was dedicated to saving SH, the process of which, makes a difference in TSul. The outcomes that the baddies expected will be turned on their heads.
I found it unsatisfactory that despite getting more of Sigma, who actually talks quite a bit, we still do not know why he’s hellbent on destroying the peninsula of Korea, and why all those who know this are fine with that. They seem to already have a dystopian mindset and they want to make it reality.
I’m still waiting to know the connection between TSul building the Uploader/Downloader and how this causes the war. Also, what does Hwang get out of all this?
We see that in the history between Sigma, Seo Jin and Park there was betrayal and that all 3 had something to do with Han Tae San.
I believe that the little changes that even Sigma could not predict or prevent took place in Tae San’s decisions, Jung’s return to the past and his present self’s rebellion and TSul’s realisation about his attitudes. Perhaps more changes will crop up in the next episodes.
So Show has taken this episode to do the set up for the next 5 episodes, where I hope to see Sigma being surprised and not so confident. Oh yes, Sigma mentioned leaving … so when is he heading for? Back to the further past or back to the future?
@growingbeautifully. I really don’t understand Sigma’s motives but hopefully we will know in the next episode. It seems that Sigma, Taesan and Tsul all know each other as boys. I can’t tell if it was middle school or some orphange from the previews.
Why does he though need new code added or written to the uploader? Is that for when he leaves that it will be more successful?
Also, we now know Tsan is wandering through time but can move things based on SH tipping the glass over. Is that how he got into Tsul’s apt? Can he keep changing events or giving hints? This show makes my brain hurt in a good way.
Hey everyone,
From our celebratory Capital! I have finished watching Episode 11.
@GB described it neatly above about how Tae Sul found peace with himself and TSul. Seo Hae was a big help in their dream like state.
Also, I really liked that he saved her first. That speak volumes from the man with the big ego we were first introduced, to the man that Tae Sul is becoming because of Seo Hae. His realizations was the best part of the episode, imo.
As for Sigma, yes @packmule3 he is the Big Head of the Chief with the grown up daughter.
As @miri said above he is heading somewhere. My guess is that he is going to the future and then he will return to the present, so as to see the changes that were applied.
Still, how did Sigma become the Big Head of ICB?
We also, figured out the thing that Seo Jin and Mr. Park did to TSan was to make him a wandering ghost that he was travelling in time, until Tae Sul came along and TSan saved him with the antidote.
So, Seo Jin / Agnes said that she was a bad person herself. I am glad she admitted that. The regrets regarding to what she did to Tsul might have broken her down.
Also, Seo Jin / Agnes suffers from an unrequired love crush for Tae Sul, but our boy -ahem, man – has eyes for Seo Hae only!
I am glad that this episode gave us more info in the psychological state of the characters and also revealed some more about what was happening in the loop until now.
Until tomorrow, kalinixta!
An intense episode 11 in emotion, perfectly supported by beautiful background musics adapted to the touching moments.
@Packmule3, about the ultimate plot-twist you mention. I hope it’s not that, because I have something similar in my script. By the way, it’s not the only joint idea. My episode 13 (not released yet as photo-drama) have two similarities. 😉
As an interesting plot-twist with Sigma’s origin, I have this one:
Sigma is Tae Sul’s brother! There is a birth secret in Tae Sul’s family. Either an additional brother, or outright an incubator reversal! This would generate a shocking irony in the story: the brother Tae Sul loves so much is not his real brother. This would generate a shocking irony in the story: the brother Tae Sul loves so much is not his real brother. And the man who is his enemy becomes his real brother. It also put the two enemys on a same level.
The scenes with the phenomenon of time ghosting.
The drama drifts towards the fantasy. In particular with the use of a door to change time (the “time door”). This can be seen as a dreamlike state where the psyche directs the faculty of perception, and thus the places and times visited. Hence the appearance of an active symbol.
At the beginning, the ghosts have the possibility to interact with reality (Tae Sul talks with children), then they lose this ability quickly (Seo Hae is invisible but manages to push a glass), until they lose it completely. From then on, they can only interact with other ghosts.
Impossible to find rational explanations on why Tae Sul manages to find Seo Hae in her memories. I just notice that all these scenes work well regarding the narration.
Since the drama was written from 2016, I suspect the writers saw W and thought “Oh great! We need to use a dynamic like that”. I would have the same reaction. So, we have people disappearing in Sisyphus, while changing space-time by saying Farewell. 🙂
This is not detrimental because the drama brings its own touch of originality to the process.
The scene of Tae Sul saying goodbye to Seo Hae (concluded with a kiss) does not have multiple meanings, like those of Song Jae Jong. What I awkwardly call “multi-contextual scene triggered by the fantastic process”.Refer to W episode 7, police station scene, or MOTA, hospital parking lot scene, or 9 times travel, phone booth scene.
But this scene in Sisyphus uses, in the same way, the fantastic process to trigger the emotion. Which is still extremely powerful, as we noticed at the end of episode 8, when Seo Hae finds her grave. It is very hard to place, and of course, almost impossible in case of multi-context (just one would be great, and two a miracle). You understood it, this kind of thing is for me a kind of holy grail of a scenario ***. 🙂
In compensation, the scene comes with a double plot-twist, so double difficulty to be inserted in connection with the rest of the scenario.
– 1st plot-twist : Seo Hae is saved but Tae Sul remains a temporal ghost (we don’t know if he can survive after the death of his physical body). Superb scene of tears as only Park Shin Hye is able to perform them.
– 2nd plot-twist : Tae San appears and saves Tae Sul (we don’t know if he is a ghost forever and if his physical body has disappeared). Authors with not too different writing styles can have similar ideas. Tae San says that this was where he was hiding. The same strange idea is used in Memories of the Alhambra. And there, it is unlikely that Sisyphus was inspired by MOTA. Or maybe the script has been reworked in the meantime, but the rewriting implications are far-reaching and I doubt it. I readily accept that different authors have similar ideas, in a short time span. A connexion of minds beyond space-time, created by the actual common imagination background.
*** About how an author can create these multi-contextual scenes: I’m leaning towards a combination of flash idea, altered state of consciousness (story flow coming from itself), and/or forced anticipation: the plot-twist(s) of this kind are created before the global structure of the story, and are connected to it either willingly or by force. This favors the emergence of other whole parts of the scenario at a preliminary structuring stage. So, you create the preliminary triggers after the main idea. 😉
Agree @Cleo. A very emotional episode to watch which ended in a good way.
It is heartbroken to see the child Tae San cried. I am glad that Tae Sul finally got to apologise to his brother. I hope Tae San finds peace in whenever timeline he is at. I am not sure if we will see him again in the future episodes.
I felt the leads have delivered the emotions very well. Cho Seung Woo on his regrets and goodbyes – it is very moving. Park Hye Shin on almost losing Tae Sul. Heartfelt crying there.
It is nice to know that Tae Sul loves West Sea, it is a nice connection to Seo Hae.
I am also glad that Seo Jin regretted about her past and I felt it redeemed her character a bit. She probably felt shameful but didn’t think it can be changed. I like that Tae Sul didn’t agree with her.
I still dislike Hwang. Like @GB said, I not sure why he wants to help Sigma.
I guess the numbers (101 for Mr Park, 811 for Seo Hae) indicates how many people has come through. Not that many really in 20 years. Jung Ki probably has an important role if Sigma mentioned him. Wonder how.
@Viva
Numbers and 811 for Seo Hae: ‘811’ are the last 3 numbers on her arm. The 6 digit number was 250811.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/14-PkQB9jn3kAz2uhUjlH4VjDeftStJKr/view?usp=sharing
When Park asked Seo Hae what her number was, she said she was in the 250,000s, whereas Park said his minions had come early and they were in the 10,000s. Now we hear that his number is 101. Since he came in the first batch of Uploadeders, we take it that he was literally number 101. SH is 250811, but Sigma may have referred to her by shortened number, as just 811.
When Sigma refers to them by their numbers, he deliberately dehumanises them. It was a pointed thing as well because Park in the cage says to Sigma: “Come on! Don’t do this to me. We’re like partners.” And Sigma might have been responding to that false bonhomie of Park’s.
“You, 101. I told you I can’t stand people who don’t keep their word.”
Sigma refers to him by serial number, instead of by name. It was probably to belie what Park says, ie they are not partners. In fact Sigma despises Park so much that he won’t even be on formal name basis with him. He does after all call Seo Jin, Agnes, instead of by her number.
So Sigma reserves his contempt for some individuals, in this case, for Park whom he says did not keep his word. We would like to know in what way Park failed to keep his end of a deal.
As for names, yes … it’s interesting that Seo Hae means West Sea and that’s the part of the land that Tae Sul happened to choose for his foundation. It’s also interesting that Seo Jin became Agnes (why a Western name?)
Tae San
Show is not entirely consistent. Tae San was last seen by SH at the August party … and now we see him like a ghost, traveling through time. It’s not certain how long he’s been ‘hiding’ in this state, but Tae Sul was in this state for a few hours only and his heart stopped. I’d imagine that Tae San has been in limbo much longer but he’s still ‘alive’.
If show wants to give a happy ending for the brothers, then I guess TSul could always go back into ghost time to his past and try to bring the antidote to his brother.
Regrets
The regrets of Uploaders was one of the main points we noted. It’s a driving force behind actions and choices. TSul’s working out his regrets, with the opportunity to offer his apologies, would be good in that he will have no reason to go back to save his brother. His brother had no regrets and said goodbye with a smile and a word of love. Tae Sul should not try to undo all that by going back in time.
Hwang
How lame it is that Hwang turns out to be nothing more than a minion of Sigma, in charge of other minions. Does he not have any conviction of his own and any life other than catching illegal entrants.
Jung Hyeong Gi
You said: “Jung Ki probably has an important role if Sigma mentioned him.” – I’ve been playing around with the idea that it is Jung who will have a hand in making or breaking Sigma’s plans. He seems to be a wildcard, and the one who is adding little changes into the time loop. He seems to have been used as the weapon to kill SH. However, he’d done unexpected things like come back from the future (ICB had to clean up after him), he’d given warning and information to SH, and we see that he steals his gun although he’s been suspended.
Since he’s always up to something, and has his own agenda, he’s definitely an important side character and one who can make a difference in how the plot twists.
@Miri
I didn’t see the preview. I guess we’ll see tonight if the men know each other. Sigma did ask TSul if he remembered him, so there’s some history there.
You wrote: “Why does he though need new code added or written to the uploader? Is that for when he leaves that it will be more successful?” – I thought it was merely that he wanted to ensure that the uploader got built and to get his own set of blueprints from TSul’s completed coding.
Irony – If Sigma and company hadn’t come back from the future and met Tae San, Tae San would not have hidden the blueprints to the uploader. I believe Sigma had come back to get the blueprints to ensure that the uploader would always be built and that anyone could do it. However because he came back, he caused the very situation that he finds himself in now. Tae San got alerted to the real situation, and got harmed in the process, and as a a result, Tae Sul will no longer complete the coding for the uploader.
Moving things as a ghost – This aspect is not consistent. Sometimes ghostly SH could touch objects and sometimes not. One time people could see Tae Sul as a person although he was a ‘ghost’ and later on, not.
However in the conversation with Sigma, it was Sigma (and not Tae San) who admitted that he’d entered TSul’s home. This is a strange twist. TSul asked him how he got in and he refused to say how he managed to enter without the alarm going off. Perhaps he has a fancy downloader which could download him safely directly into TSul’s home. 😉
@WEnchanteur
About the music of the new music director (or whoever is new) I don’t the title OST as much as the original one. The rest of the music is OK for the heightening of tension, etc. I have to watch it again for the touching moments to see if I felt more touched because of the music.
(′ʘ⌄ʘ‵)
You certainly come up with the most elaborate and unusual plot twists!!! No, I do not believe Sigma is a hidden brother of TSul’s, but what @Miri suggests (that the brothers and Sigma knew each other as kids) is plausible, given that there was some scene of it in the preview?
I’ve got to do a re-watch!!!
My dear @Cleo, Happy Independence Day!!! I looked it up and saw some photos of it up on the Internet. Such interesting military costumes and I’ve always been in awe when I look at photos of the Acropolis.
I’ve been more tied up and unable to watch or think about the shows much. I hope to do better tonight or tomorrow. At the same time, there’s Start Up to catch up on!!!
You said: “Also, I really liked that he saved her first. That speak volumes from the man with the big ego we were first introduced, to the man that Tae Sul is becoming because of Seo Hae. His realizations was the best part of the episode, imo.” – Yes I agree. He was always too full of himself and I felt his brother inadvertently was enabling it, by doing so much for him and letting him have his way, because he was so smart. Tae San was trying to be both father and mother to his brother, poor kid.
I do recall however that Tae Sul always had a soft spot for those who helped or served him… like his long forgotten body guard. So I’m not surprised that he bothered about SH. However the element of being in love with her, certainly helped!!!
♡✧( ु•⌄• )
You said: “We also, figured out the thing that Seo Jin and Mr. Park did to TSan was to make him a wandering ghost that he was travelling in time, until Tae Sul came along and TSan saved him with the antidote.” – Now this is very interesting…. how would TSan, who’s say, captured and defenceless, be able to get hold of the antidote, and hang on to it all through being unconscious and wandering through time for days or weeks (I’d guess). Surely they’d miss an antidote syringe… wouldn’t they have checked on TSan? Or did they perhaps give him a chance. They gave him the syringe and a choice. Stay like a ghost forever or return and give them the blueprint. He chose never to return so that Tae Sul would not be killed.
Or… Sigma and company did not know that Tae San was wandering in time. They did not expect that the brothers would be able to meet in their shared past and that Tae San would administer the antidote. This was another unexpected change in their plans.
Then the only way that Tae San was able to voluntarily hide and have the antidote is if Agnes was helping him. She had angrily whispered to Park that he was ruining everything… she had a plan and as she did not say it out loud, I assume she was keeping that plan from Sigma.
Sigma thought the injection was part of the plan to put TSul out of commission, but Agnes may have had a counter action to this.
You said: “So, Seo Jin / Agnes said that she was a bad person herself. I am glad she admitted that. The regrets regarding to what she did to Tsul might have broken her down.” – Yes this concept of regrets again. It seems to be a big mover of our protagonists. To undo the regrets they make choices, and hopefully better, more generous ones. I was saying above that as TSul resolves his regrets with TSan, he will have no reason to want to go back to his past… so he won’t need to make the uploader.
We need that decision to be made, and some definitive act, so that he will never be able to make the uploader, and then Uploaded individuals will presumably disappear (as SH assumed she would), and time and history should go back to the way they were meant to be.
@pkml3 Yes, that one definitive thing that is needed to ensure that TSul never makes the uploader… he has to die. And the only way to ensure this is that SH has to kill him. What TSul couldn’t do to Sigma (he couldn’t shoot him), SH may be required to do to TSul. But we know she has difficulty shooting innocent bunnies for food or the guy who was younger than her. It’s going to be a tough call for her to save her mum and S. Korea.
=͟͟͞͞٩(๑☉ᴗ☉)੭ु⁾⁾
Thank you my lovely @GB!
Yes, today in the parade they also showed the customes the Greek people were wearing during the Revolution in different areas too.
You must have seen the Euzones, which are the Presidential Guard.
Whenever you will be able to visit Athens, just let me know! We can go to the Acropolis and the Acropolis Museum!
P.S. I am watching the Acropolis everyday and I am still mesmerized by the monument. 🙂
P.S.2. I am on my phone so, I will hop in later on to comment on what you write above!
Happy Independence Day @Cleo!!! Beautiful Greece is in my bucket list… someday.
@GB – thanks for the posts! It’s like you’re submitting your full homework after a sick leave. I hope you are feeling much better and fully recovered.
When TSul noticed the syringes were marked Test-02 and commented on it, Agnes said the first one failed. I was suspicious of this immediately why it needed to get mentioned in the dialogue. Just did a rewatch and saw that Tsan’s syringe is marked Test-01.
Agnes must have given it to Tsan. Other than Thru ICB, Agnes has the means to make Tsan a “ghost” to hide there and provide TSul the syringe. Maybe part of Agnes making amends for her past.
I’ve been most curious about Tsan’s role in all of these ever since and seeing his backstory with TSul has been heartbreaking. Even in the end, his role was to give up everything to save his brother. And TSul, being used to this did not even protest when his brother intended to use the injection for him. I would have asked more questions like is Tsan still alive in the real world, what about him, how did he get the syringe, etc.
There was closure with TSul which was good, saying sorry to his hyung. One less regretful person in the cast, I hope. I still have questions though on how this all came out to be since we saw a scene with Tsan bound and gagged with Sigma watching the screens.
TSul is back in character once he is revived. His trademark smirk/smile is there even before he opened his eyes. I get that he is happy to be back with SH but he just lost his hyung. Sigh… I have this love/hate feeling with TSul.
Thank you @Janey!
Hey @Viva, @GB and @Janey,
What lovely insights!
@GB, what you said about the numbers and dehumanization unfortunately reminded me what was happening in WWII with the Hebrews that were in the concetration camps of the Nazis. They were all given a tattoo with a number.
So, from that aspect I really shuddered because Sigma doesn’t care about humanity. He just see them all as numbers, which explains his sociopath behavior.
As for Seo Jin / Agnes. I believe that when she came back because of her sins and regrets she became a Nun. Park called her Sister. So, maybe that was the name she was given?
About Jung Hyeon-Gi. I believe what you wrote partial truth. So far, his regrets are his driving source and I think that he will be the one, that will try to kill Seo Hae in this timeline. If he has a change of heart, then Gang Dong-Gi will be the reason? We shall see…
As for Sigma entering Tae Sul’s house. I kinda expecting it. I didn’t believe that TSan would do something like that. He was not the type that would live red paint in a wall.
Red as a colour has several meanings like anger, aanger, passion.
Since, Sigma is a painter as well and if we use what we know about the Abstract Painters, they use their colours as a way to express their emotions. Check Jackson Pollock!
My lovely @GB,
I think that TSan used his genius to cover his psychological scars when he was younger. Tsul was in awe of his little brother’s smartness. I mean he even said the Second Law of the Thermodynamics when they were spreading their Parent’s ashes.
TSan did everything he could for TSul, but after a while, Tsan was manipulated to believe that his brother was unstable. Remember that Seo Jin was treating TSul back before he died for the world, but he was locked up in a mental ward instead by Seo Jin.
She made TSul believe that TSan had a drinking problem. There are times that we fight with our siblings, and yes money can make you feel like the King of the world for a while, covering your emotional wounds very deeply.
What really broke TSul down as a wandering ghost was witnessing as a spectator and with his wisdom of today, his younger self being a pompous a** and not recognizing that TSan basically gave up everything for him. That’s why he disappeared and Seo Hae had to make him calm down. It is not easy to witness with your own eyes what you did wrong.
Our brain has the ability to rewrite a memory as we want it to be and not as it really happened. We can even omit parts of an incident.
I also saw the puppy glance Eddie gave to Seo Jin at that damn party.
He was in love with her from back then. Still, it was his friend’s gf or whatever at that time.
As for how TSan escaped.
I think that TSan might look as a dummy to some, but he was smart enough to hide the Uploader’s blueprints with him. After the tortures he had to endure from Seo Jin and we all have seen what she did to TSul, I believe that they were just sloppy.
Today I am thinking that he didn’t go because he was forced, rather he chose to go there by himself. He knew where the medical equipment was and he took the shot voluntarily and he STOLE the antidote from Agnes / Seo Jin.
I don’t trust Agnes / Seo Jin. I believe that she has an agenda, but she cannot defeat Sigma and she is afraid of him.
If she wants to help TSul. She has to disclose some information about Sigma or how Seo Hae and TSul were ambushed in their Marriage Ceremony.
Episode 12 – More backstory on SH and dad and at last we see Bong Seong (the forgotten!) (17minutes of it!), on Park, and most importantly, on Sigma (12+ minutes?), whose name is Seo Won Ju. The childhood trope is used for characters other than the OTP (refreshing).
We find out what kind of life he lived, what he did, and to an extent why he ‘likes’ Tae Sul. He was a psychopath through and through. Is that enough reason for doing what he wants to do? In more than 25 years, is it possible that his thinking and single goal never changed? He retained his anger forever? How sad.
I continue to be in awe of how Show creates scenes of big swathes of destruction in post apocalyptic Seoul. That’s some great CGI there.
I wonder why after 10 or more years, Seoul is still in such disrepair. Is there no international aid, … no organised help for the people who survived? Why are firearms so common that every person has them?
The choice between saving SH and saving the world remains. If SH hadn’t come to the past, TSul wouldn’t have had to make the choice. If, as Jae Sun suggests, TSul is not around (ie dead) the uploader won’t be made. If TSul does not make the uploader, SH would not be with him in 2020, but then, neither would Sigma.
The only way TSul would not be forced to make the uploader, or conversely, make that decision to save the world, is if Sigma or he were dead.
My dear @Cleo,
Yes, you remind me that Seo Jin and Tae San knew each other too and that she was his therapist. Her gaslighting started back then, when she made TSan appear to be of unsound mind or an alcoholic. The question of the time and what she knew comes up.
At what stage did she know that Tae San was not hallucinating, but speaking the truth… had Sigma already approached her family and offered the blackmail deal which would keep her mum alive?
Yes, realising what Tae San had given up for him, sobered TSul up. He hadn’t fully appreciated his brother’s sacrifice in all his life up to their last meeting. Perhaps he had been partially justifying his attitude towards his brother, while at the same time regretting what he did to push him away.
I wonder if Eddie will turn up again, more as a force for good than for his own gain. As noted in Ep 12, side characters who ‘disappear’ for a while, can turn up again and contribute greatly to the progress or otherwise of our protagonists.
We find out a bit more from Park (I hope he’s telling the truth) about his ‘business’ relationship with Tae San. In Ep 12, I was trying to figure out why Tae San was sitting there with Park while he made the call to TSul. That means that Park had managed to pick up TSan after he downloaded, but that the suitcase which got caught up with the airplane landed somewhere else. Park had been calling the burner phone in the suitcase 100 times, hoping to find it and the key.
Something that Agnes said in Ep 11 about the antidote… did she say that there was no more left? Why would there only be 3 syringes of antidote.
I still have to do a slower re-watch to figure out what I missed!!!
@GB – I had the same question! It was mentioned that only the Korean Peninsula was affected by the nuclear war yet no international aid to rehabilitate it? And the men who followed them were not military.
Shouldn’t they use the gas mark during sand storm to at least cover their eyes vs a scarf? Not good for visuals, I guess. So the dad caught up with SH and he will let her take the uploader similar to the first scene in ep1. Glad to see TSul’s body guard is back (in the future)!
SH also confirmed that things are changing indeed! She was supposed to be shot instead of Mr Park’s minion. I hope this encourages Park to make good choices also… like throwing a rock to his doppelgänger for beating up his wife. His future self was the one sending money to his wife in the past. Why do that when he knew his doppelgänger will be jealous? Doesn’t make sense.
I’m sad for the Sigma kid. The role was well executed by the child actor… I got chills. He seemed to be clairvoyant though but he followed through his evil thoughts.
The preview to ep 13 gives us more glimpses. It showed the uploader machine is already built (with Eddy there) so maybe it’s the code that is incomplete? There was also a gathering of Korea’s top people and it was noted that they were all part of the advanced team – and Eddy was there!
@WEnchanteur I remember the Eddy – Sigma plot twist!. LOL!
And @PM3 – SH drew a gun at TSul
In the preview. I have a feeling he lied about the uploader.
Can’t wait for the next installment!
Kalimera @GB and @Janey!
@GB,
I think that Seo Jin knew the truth after that first shot Sigma gave to her father and she then brought Eddie in that sinister world of hers.
The whole story with Sigma just shows that he is mentally disturbed from a young age and the child actor did justice to the depth of his role. He was creepy!
I just rewatched Episode’s 13 preview (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSXi5dfILf0 ) and what we got to see is that Sigma is holding as a hostage his younger self, who is locked up in a painting room.
In that room are : younger Sigma who seems to be in a mental break down – total different vibes than the Sigma we have seen so far, Seo Hae, TSul and Park.
I think that SH believes that if she kills the younger Sigma, then the older Sigma will die? Park warns them that what Sigma wants.
The thing is: Since younger Sigma is a hostage and not in a good state, he cannot become the way Sigma from the future is.
Also, we get to see Tsul’s bodyguard Yeo Bong-Seon that came from the future! It is good to see him again! He gives intel to Tsul about Sigma.
@Janey
I think that TSul didn’t lie to Seo Hae for the uploader. When he was shot in that conference, he did a little experiment with that sugar cube if you remember.
I think they have proceeded with the research, but something is missing in order to be completed, hence they wanted the blueprint that TSan took with him. Also, Eddie or any from the scientist team is not that bright and cannot get it started.
The problem is that little meeting with all those lunatics from the future that came back to create havoc in the present.
I agree with you @Janie about the sandstorm. They should wear those masks.
Also, what you both told about the catastrophe is true.
Where is that humanitarian help from the other States?
I mean the United Nations should something about it.
This is a loophole.
We know that they couldn’t go at once in Seoul because of the radiation, but still, it seems that nothing was done 15 years later. People were left alone.
The only thing that makes sense is that Sigma started a nuclear war all over the globe?
Still, what else did we got in Episode 12 ?
TSul was trying to kiss Seo Hae and she killed the moment by finding that painting. Also, Seo Hae is cute while she is being jealous… *winks*
As for the date we are now? Three (3) days before the Nuke hits Seoul.
That was a pretty long conversation between Sigma and TS in the beginning of ep 11. Sigma’s demeanor was polite and soft-spoken, and he almost seemed like a nice guy except when he said certain things such as threatening to kill Mr. Park’s family… Ep 12 finally got into Sigma’s history; makes sense he would’ve had an awful childhood to turn out that way.
It was interesting when Sigma said that even if everyone was going to die, people would still put themselves, their families, and money first. This has been true of the characters until now with both brothers saying they just want to save each other, and SH even called TSul selfish for not caring about the war. SJ and her father went to great lengths to save her mom, hurting TSul in the process. The fund manager said to Sigma on 9/11 that it was a good day because they made it big from stocks, not thinking about the victims of the attack. He was looking at the photo of him and his wife at work, suggesting his motivation is to provide for his family. The show keeps focusing on family photos and scenes of parents with their children, seeming to make a point that we need to think beyond ourselves for the greater good, and putting the question out there – would you save the world at the cost of your loved ones? – the ultimate question that TSul must face.
Some random things I’m wondering about:
Is travel to the future possible? If there’s a downloader in the future, then I guess it could be. Is that what Sigma wants to do? Also, Sigma said as a child that TSul would save the world, so then he is trying to change that future?
About brokers – how do people actually contact them for help from the future?
@GB I’ve been wondering about TSan…he hit the plane’s windshield in ep 1 and I don’t know how he could have survived falling from the sky and hitting a plane. I was thinking it might have been a future TSan from a future where he didn’t get stuck wandering through time, and that future TSan may have died while being downloaded. Then, the present TSan would be the one wandering through time and also the one who was sitting with Mr. Park when TSul called, though not sure why he would have been with Park at the time. I still hope TSan can come back. Not sure if SH and TSul can have a happy ending in Hawaii, but I’d be satisfied if the brothers could be reunited and young SH can just grow up living a happy life with both parents and no war.
I was also wondering why no other countries had seemed to help Korea after the bombing. However, SH and her dad could somehow access future medicines and firearms so they must have been supplied from somewhere… The firearms are interesting because they’re banned for civilians in Korea but somehow everyone’s able to get them in the post-apocalyptic Seoul.
I’m confused about what SH said in her journal, that she must save TSul in order to save the world because if he lives, he’s supposed to create the uploader which will cause the war.
@Cleopatra You make an interesting connection with Sigma’s artistic leanings and the spray-painted message in TSul’s home. Sigma was cryptic about how he got into TSul’s home. He said as a child that whatever he draws comes true. So if he does have that kind of supernatural ability, maybe he drew himself breaking into TSul’s home… That would be a convenient device for the writers to explain the break-in, or there could be a more logical explanation.
@royangi,
I don’t think that Sigma has any supernatural power. He was a little boy that got abused and as a kid he just wanted to believe that everything he was painting was happening.
TSul provided him with the idea of the Time Machine, but Tsul at that time wanted the time machine only because he wanted to went back to time and avert his parents’ death.
I like to simplify things as I have said above.
The only logical explanation is that the future Sigma that is in the current timeline went in because of Seo Jin. Seo Jin provided Sigma with the password or even helped him get in, if he has a fingertrip recognition as Seo Jin has in her medical office.
@GB ahh that’s right! Forgot about the numbering system. Thanks! 🙂 I thought it is nice to know that West Sea is Tae Sul’s happy place. Agree the show is not very consistent on Tae San. I hope it will explain more later. Also, apart from Hyeong Gi, do you think Sun is getting more suspicious? Talking about taking Seo Hae with him and kill the person who creates the Uploader.
More thoughts on ep 11
@Janey I thought the kiss scene is beautifully shot. I noticed TS looked so hesitant. He thought no one is going to miss him. Seo Hae’s first reaction when she saw him in the drifting state wasn’t that happy. She actually pushed him away! So it makes sense that he wasn’t very sure. In fact I wasn’t sure too and I thought he was just going for a hug. Lol. At the end I think he did it because he knew he wouldn’t have another chance. Beautiful scenery and background music. The glittering disappearance.
I am thinking that “wilderness” scene just before the West Sea scene is the future. Has Tae Sul time travelled to the future? Seo Hae covered his breathing so I guess the air is polluted. Also, before he disappeared from the press conference, the light was flashing to the extent that the past Seo Jin and Tae Sul could notice. Quite similar when Sigma did the first time travel and causing the light went out.
@pkml3 @GB, if Seo Hae is one who shot Tae Sul and that could explain why she is the only one who can do it (save Tae Sul), by working out how not to shoot Tae Sul this loop.
You can do it – seems appear time after time. Tae Sul said that on their brief goodbye. Future Seo Hae told herself that. I like that optimism. I guess that is one of the messages from the writer.
OK back to ep 12.
In the future timeline, we see the sandstorm in day time. To me, it looks quite similar to “wilderness” scene mentioned above in ep 11 but just in day time. May be Tae Sul did briefly travel to the future then? Or they just reused the props.
@Cleo I remember Eddie knows Tae Sul’s pin number to his safe. He told him during the plane accident. Would that be anything to do with a plot twist re Uploader. Yes a lot of cute moments. Tae Sul is trying very hard to collect all the memories of Seo Hae. He wants to remember her. So sad. Is he thinking he can’t have both Seo Hae and peace? On 72 hours left.
@royangi, agree that’s the deeper meaning of the show. Sigma is banking on people would choose to save their loved ones. Despite the weakness of the show, I found the message of the story interesting. To be fair, it is very easy to make a choice just to save the loved ones. Will we all make a heroic choice if it is right before us? Do we just want to see the past as how we perceived but won’t admit it? Are we happy to just accept it as “destiny” and live with regrets?
I have been thinking if Tae Sul can travel to future to meet Seo Hae. However that theory won’t work because that Seo Hae wouldn’t have shared the same experience with Tae Sul. Tae Sul would be a stranger to her. If they success this time, would Tae Sul live another 15 years to meet the grown up Seo Hae?
@cleo – from the preview, I did not realize SH, TSul, Park and Sigma doppelgänger are all in the same place. SH then wanted to shoot Sigma and TSul intervened. Ah, that makes more sense! Thanks!!!
@Cleopatra Yes, that’s a good realistic explanation. Sigma got help getting in from someone and SJ is a good candidate.
@Viva Good point that Sigma believes everyone will just make the “selfish” choices (as you say, it would be hard to make the heroic choice), but this time will be different…