Hindsight is always 20/20. I should have known that the writer and director would make JW ditch his faith. As early as Episode 1, I was already pointing out the soft anti-Catholic bigotry of this drama.
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Another Catholic Drama
In a scale of 1 to 10, what pisses me off to a high of 9.99 in kdramas is the disingenuous depiction and outright ridicule of Catholic traditions and tenets. “Angel’s Last Mission: Love” was one such kdrama. The ignorance was so willful that I gave up correcting the screenwriter’s prejudices and misrepresentations writ large.
Seriously, I wish kdrama writers would accord to Catholics the same respect that they do to Buddhists, Muslims, and atheists. Similarly, I wish Korean Catholics would protest whenever they see these writers and dramas sensationalize practices and scandals of their Church.
So when @nrllee warned me that there were Catholic references in this kdrama, too, I prepared myself for another round of religious bigotry.
So let me discuss how the Catholic family is portrayed here.
1. The father
I was about to give him a pass because I don’t want to speak ill of the dead, and I’m not 100% sure he was Catholic. Here’s how the directors in the hospital spoke of him.
Hospital Director: (referring to JW) That punk who’s still wet behind the ears is about to inherit the hospital.
Mr. Ju: He’s 40. He’s not that young.
Head of Neurosurgery: Will the hospital fall into the hands of his youngest son who’s a doctor? I bet he hasn’t written his will yet.
Hospital Director: Even if he has one, the board will have to vote to make the decision.
Head of Neurosurgery: But they may vote to appoint Mr. Ju to the position.
The Hospital Director explained the politics of the board.
Hospital Director: All the board members are Chairman Ahn’s people. The other members tend to follow Chairman Hwang’s lead. He’s Chairman Ahn’s friend for 30 years. Chairman Ahn’s wife just needs to make one phone call to him. Then it’s game over.
He meant that Mr. Ju’s chances for chairmanship were slim.
Head of Neurosurgery: Chairman Ahn’s such a wonderful person. But he too is a greedy man after all.
He implied that Chairman Ahn was materialistic enough to want to leave the foundation to his own blood and kin. But the Hospital Director rejected this notion.
Hospital Director: You can’t call him greedy for this. He’s donated most of his assets.
This told me that JW’s dad was regarded as philanthropic. He didn’t acquire assets to keep for himself; but he donated them to charities. His children weren’t the primary beneficiaries of his estate because even JW’s hyung was asking him for money for the wine, and Brother #1 was content to gorge himself out in an ordinary, one-star restaurant. As to whether or not the dad wrote a will leaving the foundation to his youngest son, this action was probably to ensure that his charitable causes continue after his death.
On a personal note, I’m not a chaebol, but my will has stipulations that a portion of my taxable assets be donated to the Church where it won’t subject to income tax and it can do the most good for the people and initiatives I care about, like battered women, youth education, and prenatal care and pregnancy assistance for mothers in need, and so on. I think it’s never to early for Bitches like us to plan our deaths.
In general, I liked how the father was portrayed here. For one, he wasn’t like the stereotypical chaebol fathers who demanded that their offspring follow in the family business. He consented to four of his five children entering the religious order.
For another, his children, including JW, were probably influenced by his philanthropy. The children most likely saw how he donated most of his assets, and they in turn emulated that by donating their time in service to others.
2. The mother
The mother’s an interesting figure.
First, when the Hospital Director and Head Neurosurgeon went to see her, she greeted them with hauteur.
Director: Hello, how are you?
Mom: Not well, obviously.
The first impression here was that she was rude, snippy. She refused to meet their eyes. Couldn’t she tell that the man was observing proprieties and following normal corporate custom?
Director: My apologies, ma’am.
Mom: No need to apologize. It is what it is. Don’t worry about it.
But then her answer here indicated that she was merely blunt spoken, not rude. She sounded brusque because she said things “as is,” without observing the usual niceties.
Then, Mr. Ju introduced the two doctors to her. Her eyes remained downcast. “This is the director of the hospital and he’s in charge of the Brain Center.” She replied, “Is that important now?” then she stopped as looked at the Director, “Right. It’s nice to meet you anyway.”
To me, her comment “Is that important now?” could be interpreted in two ways.
A. She could mean that she didn’t care to see them there in a time like that, and their introductions were unnecessary. They didn’t have to dance attendance on her because she was the Chairman’s wife.
B. (I prefer this one) She could mean that the presence of a neurosurgeon was superfluous. His medical opinion wasn’t required anymore since her husband was beyond any surgical intervention. She already knew her husband was dying.
But she stopped herself when she glanced at the Director. To me, she caught herself sounding ungracious so she allowed the doctor to do the prognosis.
Mom: (continuing) Will he not make it?
Director: Frankly, it won’t be easy. But we’ll do our very best.
Second. She has a weird way of showing affection for her family. She was distant to them.
Mom: (talking to her lawyer) I called them a while ago. Why aren’t they here yet. I taught them wrong.
Her attorney: (seeing the first son arrive) There he is.
Son #1: (carrying his rosary beads) Hi.
Mom: You came.
Son #1: Mom, are you okay?
Son #2 walked in with a prayer book and joined Son #1 in prayer.
Her attorney: (bowing to Daughter #1) It’s been a long while.
Daughter #1: Dad…(covering her mouth to stifle a sob)
Mom glanced at Daughter #2 who was also praying for their father.
Meanwhile, Dr. Neurosurgeon was wondering why Chairman Ahn left it to his son and not the eldest son. “Did the elder ones cause trouble or something?” The Hospital Director was surprised that he had no idea since even little kids would know the answer to that question. “As for his eldest son, he’s too busy with his current job.”
As for the second son, the director said that “he assists someone who’s very high up.” Dr. Neurosurgeon asked the daughters, and director revealed that she entered the religious life, too. At this point, Dr. Neurosurgeon guessed that she the second daughter followed the footsteps of her older siblings.
Mom: Is the maknae (the title for the youngest of the family) coming or what? At this rate, he’ll get here after your dad’s funeral.
Son #1: Mom, Andrea is in the elevator now.
Attorney: Finally! Your brothers and sisters are all here.
Son #3 went over to the mom and hugged her tight around the neck.
Mom: (voiceover) Maknae-ya, spare a second.
What did this scene tell me? Three things:
First, the mom complained that she’d raised her children wrong. But from a Catholic perspective, she must have raised them absolutely right because four of her children were all called to serve the Lord, and her last child was secretly helping out the poor.
I thought she was being ironic. She was complaining that what was good for God turned out to be detrimental for her (and her husband). He couldn’t pass down their foundation to their children because four of their children renounced wealth and took vows of poverty.
Ha! From the looks of it, her children followed her husband’s attitude towards money because she admitted to liking money. Didn’t she joke that she married for money? “You might have forgotten it, but I married for convenience. It was a loveless marriage, but I was happy in my own way.”
To which her son replied, “Mom. TMI.” The mom didn’t understand what he said and Netflix didn’t sub it because TMI was English for “too much information.” JW was protesting that he didn’t need to hear his mom talk about her marriage.
Second, the emotional one in the family is JeongWon. Although the others felt distressed because at their father’s impending death, they didn’t show their grief in an exaggerated manner. They hid their emotions in their prayers.
It was only JW who gave his mother the physical embrace that she needed at that moment.
Third, it became obvious to me that she didn’t love her husband when I saw the way she sat near her husband when he was dying. (Newsflash! She didn’t sit by his bedside.)
Look: This is how Mr. Joo sat at his wife’s bedside while she was ill.
And this is how she sat when her husband was terminal. She kept her distance from her husband.
It was her daughters who prayed over her husband.
Her sons performed the ablution.
She stayed away from her husband. That behavior wasn’t normal.
On a side note: I don’t know what those two priests were doing with that washbasin and hand towel. The writer must have known that Catholic priests give the Sacrament of Anointing of the Sick (or what was formerly known as Extreme Unction). But the writer was mistaken if she thought that a basin and a towel were needed. In Anointing of the Sick, the dying person isn’t going to be laved in water. The priest only anoints the dying with a bit of oil on the forehead and the palms of the hand. That’s all.
I wish the writer studied about this sacrament before incorporating this in the story or deleted this misinformation. To me, this writer confused this with another Catholic tradition, the washing on the feet on the disciples, performed on Holy Thursdays.
Third, the only time she was shown caring for another person here was when she brought Mr. Ju food. I find it curious that Mr. Ju wouldn’t ask favors from anyone,
but he asked her to cook for him.
She said it had been 30 years since she last packed a dinner.
Oddly, too, she was more animated when talking about Mr. Ju than her own husband.
No, I don’t believe she had an affair with him. But their relationship deserves a second look later.
All in all, I think this mom is a strange one. She must have done something right if four of her children joined the orders. But she didn’t appear to be a warm and loving, and reverent sort of parent.
3. The children
This optics of this scene was funny.
It was alluding to the confessional box. Brother #1 really looked like a priest in a confessional box while sitting in the small confined space of a bus shelter.
To me, it was doubly funny because he was shocked to discover that JW smoked. Being a doctor, JW should have known better than anyone about the “evils” of smoking. In today’s world, smoking is considered a “social sin.” Smokers are much reviled as the Devil himself. But as it turned out, it was their mom who “corrupted” JW.
There was also the dig about one of the brothers asking for money for wine.
JW: Oh, Hyung. I don’t have any money. I barely got enough money to cover the bills for a kid with heart disease. I’m completely broke. You’re a priest. Why do you always ask for wine? Have a life of non-possession. You should be happy if you are as respected as Bopjong. Whatever, I don’t have money. You’re a priest, not a sommelier.
This joke is bigoted. I don’t like the insinuation here that his brother is an alcoholic asking for money to pay for his private and personal consumption of wine. “Why do you always ask for wine?”
As far as I know, a priest may ask for a donation to defray the cost of the sacramental wine used for communion. The purchase order would be made by the parish and the wine would be used during mass.
Sacramental wine can be expensive. They’re not the regular wine sold in stores. The Vatican has guidelines about wine used in masses.
“The wine that is used in the most sacred celebration of the Eucharistic Sacrifice must be natural, from the fruit of the grape, pure and incorrupt, not mixed with other substances. Great care should be taken so that the wine intended for the celebration of the Eucharist is well conserved and has not soured. It is altogether forbidden to use wine of doubtful authenticity or provenance.”
source: http://www.vatican.va/lettera-su-pane-vino-eucaristia
The only valid alternative to wine is a grape juice called “mustum.” It can be served to an individual who cannot have alcohol.
That’s the reality of wine in a Catholic mass.
But this writer unfortunately smears JW’s brother as a wine connoisseur with an expensive wine drinking habit.
This “joke” is particularly of the comparison to Bopjong, a Buddhist monk famous for advocating non-possession. Like, hello, writer?? Have you ever heard of St. Theresa of Calcutta? What about St. Francis of Assisi? St. Ignatius of Loyola?
If JW was truly written as Catholic character, he would have referred to any number of apostles and saints who all renounced material possessions for spiritual richness.
To me, this is precisely the kind of joke that insidiously taints the reputation of Catholic religious men and infiltrates the consciousness of the general viewers. It added no value to the script but to make fun of priests and the Catholic tradition of using wine in the Eucharist.
Unimpressed.
4. JW’s confession
“Father, a girl went to heaven today…I’m his child but I can’t stop resenting God. I hate him. And I resent him too. It’s so hard to move on with my life, Father. What should I do?”
I’m not a priest, and I don’t know what priests normally hears in the confessional box, but to me, this isn’t a confession. You see, the first requirement in a confession is a contrite heart. To be contrite means to be sorrowful because you know you’ve done something awful and wrong.
Contrition is more than guilt. And here, JW was merely expressing his emotions — not even remorse — for resenting God. He was looking for somebody to blame for the child’s death and God was the convenient target. JW was venting.
And of course, he didn’t see the irony here.
He was saying that he blamed God for taking away his patient to heaven when heaven was a much better place for the child who’d been suffering on earth because of the mother’s desire to keep her alive. He resented God because he didn’t get to have his own way and prolong the suffering…errr…life of the child for the selfish needs of her mother. He thought he knew what was best for the child; God was just a cold-hearted idiot.
So yes, as absurd as his Hyung’s written message was to meet him at the fried chicken restaurant on the police station alley, JW’s confession was even more absurd. He wasn’t there to confess.
Really, if I were the priest, I would have done the same thing as the brother — just invite him out to drink so he could unburden himself.
He didn’t want to confess his sin. He just wanted to whine about how tough his life had been. He was in search of commiseration rather than forgiveness. He wanted to wallow in his sorrows, not to confess his sorrows. He didn’t need a confessional box; he just needed a good chicken-and-beer restaurant. He required a work-related stress therapy and counseling.
See that? And his Hyung gave it to him.
JW: That’s why I told you I wasn’t going to be a doctor. I told you I was going to be a priest, too, didn’t I? Remember what you guys told me? That I could be a priest whenever I wanted, but that’s not the case for a doctor. I worked all these years as a doctor because of you, guys. Starting now, I’m going to do what I want with my life, okay? Did you get that?
His brother just slurped spaghetti.
JW: I don’t…I can’t…I can’t control my emotions. I empathize too easily. Other doctors tell me that once time passes, it becomes like nothing. You know what. I care too much about my patients. I completely go nuts for them, you know? I didn’t cry even when our father passed away. My father recently passed away, you know.
Brother #1: Is that so?
JW: But when Minyeon’s mother thanked me for treating her today. Damn it! My patient’s mother comforted me. But I’m the doctor! But then, to tell you the truth, it was the most wonder feeling, it was a kind of feeling that I couldn’t experience in this world. I was so grateful and I was sorry at the same time. Anyway, I don’t deserve to be a doctor. No. It’s too hard. I won’t do it. I’ll quit being a doctor. As a matter of fact, I was going to quit after this year. I was planning to hand off things I do to my friend anyway.
Remember what I said about his phone call to Songhwa? Yes. I said that he was going to tell her about his Daddy-Long-Legs program.
JW: (continuing) It’s over now. I’ll quit my job tomorrow. Damn it.
Brother #1: Andrea, if that’s how you feel, I’ll tell you to quit later. So why don’t you hang in there for one more year.
lol. This is funny to me for two reasons.
The obvious reason is because his brother, the priest, ignored his whiny complaints. He told him to hang in there for a year, knowing that “little” brother would come around and change his mind anyway.
Then, the other reason JW’s drunk talk was funny is because JW was clueless about priesthood. If he wanted to quit practicing medicine because he wanted to stop being too emotionally involved with his patients, then he shouldn’t enter the priesthood either. Did he really think the religious life was a sinecure?
Being a priest is just as emotionally exhausting, if not more so, than being a doctor. Priests are on call 24 hours. They administer to their flock nonstop. And, unlike a doctor who can cry in his beer and have a breakdown whenever he had a difficult time, a priest can’t. If JW was already receiving odd looks from strangers in the restaurant when he was bemoaning about his job, can you imagine if he were a priest wearing his clerical outfit?
Another big difference between doctors and priests is their type of patients. While doctors worked in a hospital for the sick, priests, too, worked in the hospital, that is, a hospital for the sinners. Both their patients require healing, with doctors looking after the physical health and priests tending to the spiritual welfare.
Furthermore, another major difference between doctors and priests is God’s calling. JW can’t become a priest if God wasn’t calling him.
Overall then, Episode 1 of this kdrama is on par with other kdramas who ridicule the Catholic Church or put the traditions in a negative light. I grade it an F.
Now, a lurker might think that I should lighten up since this kdrama isn’t meant to be a religious film. Ha! Nice try deflecting with that strawman argument. I care enough to speak out because I know very well the power that popular shows and movies wield in framing public opinion. The constant negativity and distorted stereotypes serve to polarize public trust and corrode the believers’ faith in the Catholic Church.
I’m obliged to speak out. 🙂
I can’t help about the drama being anti-Catholic or not.
But if you think dramas are more Buddhist friendly, you are wrong!
Everything about Buddhism in the majority of the dramas I’ve watched is also absurd.
Just one thing: countless times we see people praying Buddha in a temple.
Does this have any logic?
Buddha is neither a god, nor a jesus! He is not a supreme being that we can pray to obtain anything. The very foundation of his teaching is the search of our mind by ourselves. And the demands and beliefs to other figures, including himself, are exactly the causes of perdition preventing the realization of the spirit. Even during his lifetime he said: never believe what people will do with my teaching.
About the drama… I have hard facts showing how badly written this drama is (for episode 1). It would definitely make people in different gardens agree, winter, spring, summer, or anything. They would have a poor guy like me to get mad at, rather than fighting each other. It makes me wonder, why do people fight so hard for such a bad drama?
Do I have to list all the scriptwriting horrors in this thing?
Just one example, which has been repeated tons of times during the episode :
Timecode: 01:04:30.
The concrete example of the lamest dialogue imaginable. Speaking of other things that viewers have never been subjected to. Incomprehensible, impossible to digest. It’s a shame, really a shame for a writer who has already done 6 dramas before this. When I say that Kim Eun Sook is good compared to this, I’m not kidding. Not even first time writers make something this bad. Kim Eun Sook may make mistakes about the outline or preparatory choices because visibility is difficult, or she lacks inspiration, and she’s not superhuman, but she doesn’t make screenplay mistakes.
The entire episode is made up of verbiage like this.
And of course, without any plot.
The writer has NOTHING to say. Verbiage. Blah-blah-blah. Woody allen puck.
Again, I’m sorry for being a pain. But… by now, I think you know me a little? When I have to say what I think, I can’t help it but do it.
I never picked this up before. For me, I was influenced by the positive reviews to start with and attracted to the heart-warming interactions between the friends later. To me, friendship that sustains that long from university to workplace is hard to see. I didn’t pay much attention to the details and the build up for the first episode and just thought the time spent as initial investment/sunk costs to know the characters. I am really quite shallow on this 🙂 !
I wonder viewer like me has built up a tolerance without knowing, as long as there are heart-warming (despite realistic or not) stories to watch, suddenly flaws can be overlooked.
Hah! Great that you’re addressed this @pkml3. The same thought struck me. ‘What’s this with the ostentatious portrayal of things/characters Catholic!’ And yes, they are made to look ridiculous, instead of being portrayed with accuracy at least, and a degree of respect, which would be preferable.
My mind skipped too far ahead, … I was already guessing what might be the dilemma for the sole layman Catholic son with siblings in religious life and Holy Orders. And to make it more dramatic, I was guessing he’d probably give up the faith. But I have not watched ahead to find out if I’m right or not.
Thanks for speaking out!
@packmule3, Assomebody who will always be ina religious minority in all butone country in the world, I find that so muchnof the media presents minority religions instereotyoical, humorous, ignorant and in highly insensitive ways. Even many writers who are coreligionists of the minority religions will pandrr to the prevsiling culture in presenting the characters. I can goback to The Merchant of Venice and Shylock to Fagin inOliver Twist to express how these characgers contributed to the perception of Jews and the religion and in many ways codified the anti-Semitism that led to the modern day Holocaust. Therefore, your critique about the presentation of Catholics and Catholicism in HPL,even when played for laughs,can have sinister interpretations and unexpected bad consequences. You do us a great service by expressing your problems with this program. I would hope that future writers don’t inadvertantly end up villifying entire religions. But take it from me, Catholics are not alone in these presentations.
And toall the BODers whoibserve Ramadan,Ramadan Mubarek.
I agree with nrllee. It’s best to watch the dramas of these PD-Writer duo in full to see them in a more whole view instead of ep by ep on weekly basis where many of the subtleness were lost in that moment of over one-hour watch. Their strengths are in the nostalgic, family, friendship, everyday lives story and the details they embedded in those. Of course, coming from a variety show background they definitely have their weakness in, among others, developing the characters consistently and their ‘touch and go’ way of dealing with their story. From my view, character development is still their biggest weakness i.e. how easily for them to ditch an initially well developed character for the sake of their own jokester agenda. It’s their thing, I guess.
For me, after completing all the reply series and prison playbook, the worst CHARACTER (to make it clear to lurkers) they have created and developed thus far is Dr. Maggot. Written as the human calendar, the gossiper, the avid fangirl, a resident princess of GS, the ‘smart’ resident, yet all I could see from that so-called tough girl, is continuous incorrect ways of handling her patients, making medical judgement, her being downgraded to a mere immature doctor of late 29 y.o. who chose to ogle her professor while she is working on her patient. What did she actually pick up while following her ’13 professors’ when doing rounds for that whole 3 years??!! And she was written as a doctor who is passionate at patient care! Huh?? All the other residents were given a much much better growth in their respective fields and story. She was stuck in her two errors of judgments (and many more if this is the kind of personality she has since she became a resident), one small surgery, her one explanation drawing and her one crush. And she is a 3rd year SOLE resident of the GS! One would wonder what has she been doing all this time. This ain’t what I would say a cute character. Dense is most likely.
So, that’s that about the duo.
@WEnchanteur, here are some of the details hidden in the drama that our good friend, @thunderraven, have compiled – My friend, I hope you are doing well.
https://dinosaurridge.tumblr.com/post/621524409795133440/parallels-between-songhwa-and-jeongwon-as-doctors
https://dinosaurridge.tumblr.com/post/621485196196331520/when-the-guys-came-to-check-on-songhwa-she-only
I am not a filming graduate but I used to write simple stories. And I am impressed still on how this is being carefully done. Hospital Playlist, mainly the story of the five friends, was written based on the music Canon in D by Pachelbel. Like the music, it contains imitations and variations as well as parallels. ShinLee are taking full advantage of their previous dramas to formulate these elements.
https://ourpsychicfg.tumblr.com/post/649007214058668032/hospital-playlist-reply-1994-redux-part-1
So far, being a true variety show/ games experts, they remain consistent in the outcome of the same formulas used in their past projects. As for HP, we’ll see how it goes with the final outcome from those variations. However, like Canon, the point where it all began and where it ends shall remain the same. I hope we can see that at the conclusion of S2.
ShinLee are no Kim Eun Sook. Their comfort zone is ‘slice of life’, not too overly melodramatic, and of course, the games in their variety shows. With their skills, I would be intrigued to see how they would create a mystery thriller without butchering their characters development. A tough call for them, I guess but a challenge nonetheless. ^^
Test. kekeke… sorry… my previous comment was not visible so, I am testing this.
Let me look for it.
oppsss sorryyyyy… ok I will wait. Can you deleted the second one above, please. Thank you !
Done. 🙂
aigooo… Thank you packmule3! I am sorry for the trouble. TT
Happy to be of help. 🙂
I was typing something for the blog and saw your incoming post.
Here it is.
Thank u very much packmule3 for tis catholic tradition/sacrament write-up.
Yup, I agree with your views,and I also feel tat a lot of tis misinformation could mislead audience, putting our catholic religion in bad light. Thus, am so happy tat you speak up, clarified & put back all these misinformation into its proper perspectives.
Good job!👍👍👍. Luv it 🤗
Ironically, the scene that introduces the hospital president’s children was one of the most understandable.
After some obscure dialogue, a character names the children. Since the beginning is unclear, I still missed the first one. And yes, like most dialogue, it starts out talking about things or people off-screen that we have absolutely no idea about in the first episode.
This is followed by several sequences in which we see each child enter the room where the president is. (screenshot in this article). Unlike most of the dialogues in the episode, this allows us to visualize what is happening and who we are talking about. We see the president and the children. Okay, finally some visibility.
The viewer is surprised because all the children are priests or sisters. Does this make sense? No idea. As a comic effect it is successful, but highly unlikely.
If this episode considers the church in a bad way, good news, none of it manages to really stick in the memory or become acceptable to the average viewer that I am.
The last two scenes shown (the confession and the restaurant scene) were also irrelevant.
The character was supposed to be devastated by the death of the little girl. This segues into the confession. More blah-blah about things we don’t see.
Then the restaurant, a scene that turns into a forced comedy. Bad acting based on fake tears. More dialogue disconnected from a situation lived, shown and felt.
We don’t get the emotional feedback of the little girl’s death, since the connection between the doctor and the child is not shown. It is made fun of. Perhaps a tragicomic side was intended, but it failed.
I sometimes have trouble dropping a drama, I try to know more, to give it a chance. But this one, ah ah, it was so easy. With only one episode, it gave me the full extent of this boring, wordy, storyless nightmare, where everything sounds fake.
I said I didn’t like slice-of-life, but that’s not entirely true. I can like it, when it is not the main structure of the drama.
I’ll take a random drama that is particularly good in this. “While you were sleeping”. By writer Park Hye Ryun. All the scenes of daily life are tender, funny and heart warming. In her drama “I can hear your voice” also, during the couple scenes in the FL house. All this is more successful and sounds true.
@Miracle23:
You say that the drama is written based on a musical canon and a formula?
To me, this is even more disappointing. The use of a theme always has an artificial effect. It’s just an intellectual game. This is fatally felt, even for a drama like Start-Up, which tries to stick a theme to each episode. Probably one of the reasons why I quickly felt that the story was less visceral than the writer’s previous stories. The story alone must express its truth. If a theme comes out, it is accidental. It is bound to happen because every story has it. But forcing the story to fit into a preplanned theme is destructive.
This is a subject I’ve been thinking about a lot, because I had read, a long time ago, a piece of advice like this:
“a story must always have a theme and a message”.
This kind of advice immediately made me uncomfortable and I didn’t accept it. The message is often overdone, or even deviated for ideological purposes.
Later, I was able to follow a conversation of scriptwriters about this, and I realized that it was a very divisive topic. Not a “in-the-stone” advice. My instincts were right. I think now it’s a bad advice.
Once a message or theme has been determined, or characters determined, just write and follow the predeterminants. Only, nothing exciting happens in the story, because the story is like a horse with blinders on. And then the scriptwriters come in for feedback. Why isn’t my story working? Why do people say it’s boring? It is a linear writing. I call it like that, I don’t know if there is an official word. And it would be too long to explain differences between linear writing (predeterminants) and recursive writing (organized chaos).
As time pass, and as I observe this in dramas, movies, or writing, this become more and more revelant. It has an impact on dramas/writers I prefer. Maybe I’m not enough precise on these notions, because I have difficulty to spare the differents kind of stories. But at least, I can easely spot artifices.
Applied to Start-Up, one can say that it is nevertheless an achievement, because the writer has to follow her general story, and on top of that, almost miraculously, apply her theme of the episode. All this is sophisticated and difficult to do. But for all that, not really effective. It immediately feels like a nice garnish over a hobbled story. Instead, the most effective scenes are going to be the ones that hit hard with their own energy. Like the elevator scene, which is basically similar to the one you see in dramas with a lot of conflict. There is a certain irony in that, what works best is not what the drama was intended for.
I give an example, the movie “Parasite”, written and directed by Bong Joon Ho.
All the critics talked about a film with a social theme, the rich, the poor and blah blah blah.
But what did the screenwriter say? He doesn’t care about all that. He never wanted to exploit any theme or give a message. He focused on his story. Telling the best story he could. Nothing else.
Occasionally, the theme resulting from a story built only for itself is going to be much less explicit and artificial. Carrying many meanings, in depth, like a groundswell. No judgment or lesson given to the spectator.
Personally, when I want to give a message, I write it in a short page, like this one. I don’t embroider a drama around it. If I want an essay, I read a philosopher’s book.
Ah, I have another example.
This is not from a drama, but I think everyone knows this.
The Avengers movie where The Marvel superheroes face Thanos.
Here we get a very clear idea of how a message screws up a movie.
The writer wants to give Thanos a motivation, to explain why he is killing half the lives in the universe. He’s an environmentalist! Ah ah!
And bam, a little bit of padding based on that. Only, it’s totally nonsensical. Life reproduces so fast that in a few years all this massacre will have been for nothing! Half of an ant farm disappears? Look at how fast the ants will replenish their population. Human beings are killed? Just look at the example of the Baby Boom after the Second World War. And the dumb Thanos sacrified his daughter for that !
So forcing a message or theme just destroyed the storyline and made it terribly stupid.
In comics, the idea is much better. Death is a force with a female incarnation. Thanos is in love with death. And he can’t conquer his love. So to conquer her, he decides to make an offering to her, to give her half the lives in the universe. All this is not only more meaningful, but also more poetic. Even if it is sinister, the motivation of the character does not lead to logical errors, and does not annoy us with a painful theme, when we came for entertainment and to be captivated by a story.
Wow! There are so many information 🥰. I enjoy reading them so much. Thank you again. I will rewatch the 1 EP again tonight because now it’s 11:40 am in Thailand. 💻💻💻
Thank you again 🌷
I’m relieved that you write this up thoroughly packmule. Since the very beginning I have been feeling uncomfortable regarding the religion parts in this drama. Moreover on the last episodes on how JW finally decide to ditch his faith especially how audiences might see it in a way that a person (in this case: the winter) has the right/power to make another person abandon his dream to be a priest. I just can’t digest this.. 😔 — maybe this is why i’m not very fond of winter character..
I’m not a catholic myself but I do feel that someone who understand has to explain and speak up, it is very dangerous how a drama or movie could misled many people about a religion. But I do wonder, if it’s maybe because not many religious people in S Korea, therefore some dramas / movies could keep doing this. Because they don’t have enough information/knowledge about this religion and they might thought it’s not a serious problem when putting certain scenes/ dialogues there..
After all, hospital playlist is a heartwarming drama for me. My only uncomfortable feels are only regarding the religion and the winter. I hope that in the future dramas/ movies creators in S Korea will be more thoughtful when writing the stories regarding certain religion. Because it is a sensitive matter for some people and for me it is not something that could be joked on.
@WEnchanteur, the theme and the formulas are what we have realised, as viewers, after looking closely at all of their previous projects, and/or what the director has hinted in his IV. When you said it like that, yes the story became predictable. Nevertheless, how far is the predictability given the variations & how they got away with it, I am intrigued, still.
For this duo, I am watching their drama with a handicap in mind because they are not truly the best creator of fiction. Though they do make good family and friendship stories. The idea of a band of doctors is somewhat unique though. The hospital story is predictable yet has its warmth. The story of the five friends are the main pull, at least for me. When it comes to comedy and friendship, my pick of their works is always Reply 1994. But I will drop the handicap when it comes to thrillers and mystery. Those will need more critical thinking, and my expectations are unusually high, hehehehe.
@moonstar512, perhaps it’s the culture there – something’s happening in the community that reduces the respect towards religions, in general.
Note: New FGrs who have sent us an email before and commented here at BoD, please send us your BoD un. Thank you.
Aahh! @Moonstar512… So I guessed correctly?!? Drama has made Ahn Jeong Won turn away from his faith? And for a woman, ‘Winter’ right? I was guessing it, just because when shows blow up focus on the Catholic faith, it’s to prepare to do some such dramatic turnaround. I was prepared for that, but ‘being right’ does not make me happy. *pout*
He is still with his faith GB, but he is letting go of his first dream i.e. being a priest to stay as a doctor. I won’t accept other reason for staying than that. He was only shown to be either devoted to priesthood or passionate in caring for his patients. Choosing to stay for a dumb girl is just… dumb. Not to mention, making it hard for his mother too, in the process… and all for a girl who doesn’t know better? *shrug*
Thanks @Miracle23, I’m getting the lie of the land as we chat about bits and pieces. Easier than trying to watch and re-watch sometimes!!!
I’m even taking to reading a recap just to figure out what on earth was happening!
Is that not also a sign of a show executed poorly? Or is it deliberate as @pkml3 suggests? Unnecessarily adding mystery when there’s nothing to be mysterious about? *frown*
@GB, I think of it as simple story, jumpy a bit from scene to scene at ep 1 but I don’t have hard time understanding the flow of the episode. Probably the method of this director. He is trying to hide that the youngest in that Yulje household is the PED. Earlier, some streaming sites spoiled viewers by putting his name on the subtitle when he hugged his mom. I am mostly focused on the five friends😅😅😅
I zoomed in onto them and immediately disconnected their story from the hospital ongoings because as much as I love medical dramas, the struggles of these doctors in their job in HP does not give me a lasting impression (except a few of them), unlike the medical dramas that I watched before. Romantic Doctor Teacher Kim S1 and Beautiful Mind are still my fav to date. 🤭🤭🤭 The pd and writer worked too hard to hide their hints. These game master. Obviously the majority does not even bother to look beyond the surface. Efforts wasted. 🤣🤣🤣
@Miracle23, if it’s already become the culture of them, then it will be harder to change their perspective on religions in general, don’t u think 😞😞..
btw, I love Romantic Doctor Kim Sabu too. I heard they’ll make the 3rd season this year.. or next year.. and the cast in first season except maybe Yang Se Jong since he is in military duty, will make appearances haha
@GB, the winter girl “seems” like the reason of JW to stay as a doctor and not becoming a priest (you’ll see these on last episodes) I mean.. it’s like the duo creators made the audiences (us) to think it that way. Well, I don’t think so though.. there must be a stronger reason for a person like him to choose his path on being a doctor, and I am hoping it’s not because of a girl like winter. Duh.. (but to be honest I need a couple of weeks to digest the last episodes of season 1, with everyone around me clapping that they think JW stay because of the girl. I found it really hard to accept, so I let myself believe that it’s not because of winter that he stay, or else I would go crazy lol)
but we will know the real answer maybe in season 2 or season 3. I don’t know too..
My most favorite parts of this drama are the friendship scenes between the 5 main casts. I am so happy looking at them laughed at each other in the variety shows and the interview video. Seems like they’re getting closer to each other..
And I do wonder what will you think about the story, GB.. I hope you’ll finish the first season sooon.. here’s some power snacks to accompany you watch it back to back.. heehee
🍿🍩🍪🍿🍩🍿🍩🍪
@moonstar512 episode 12 on last season made me looked worst than broken heart by a boyfriend, I had no energy at all 😢. I didn’t even finish that episode.
Hi, thank you @Packmule3 @Nrllee for inviting me on this throwback 😆 well, I’m kind of re-watching it alredy because I really thought it’ll be this may… but I think it’s okay
I just notice something about Ikjun x Jang
When Jang was chasing the thief and when songhwa and ikjun went back to the hospital because songhwa had an ER patient , I noticed that the background music
**the time when ikjun was closing the door of his car while raining
to be honest, I don’t know what it signifies but the scene after that as we know and as was reavealed in the next episode, Jang and Ikjun are talking and, when Ikjun asked Jang to pretend that she has a boyfriend
Also the kiss doesn’t make sense! If you’re going to look at it on WG lens, we knew that Jwon was kind of jealous about the boy [which turns out that its her brother]
Now, here’s a thing, no one told jeongwon, that its her brother so how come he’ll knew about it?, also, Ikjun doesn’t tell it to him?
So it’s like for me … how come he’ll kiss her if in his mind he knew that jang has a bf
And, good thing I read about the dream kiss [don’t know if I get the title right] but at least because of that it made sense to me why that kiss was kind of absurd and, why it feel so unreal.
When taek and deoksun kissed it feel surreal but, here! Meh! And yuck!
This post has me thinking. It was the Catholic overtones that had me against a wintergarden pairing in the first place, because to me, it never made sense. (When I heard that Song-Hwa was Protestant, I firmly became a flowergardener, so when the storyline went winter, I was perplexed.) I figured if the writer wanted to have a wintergarden endgame, there needed to be some more plot adjustments in later seasons to make such a pairing understandable. However, after reading your post, it seems that the writer planted those seeds earlier.
I have been interested in religion in kdramas because that topic seems to be handled differently than what I’ve seen in western culture. I look forward to reading the archives on your take.
omg @Kanaya.. I wish I could virtual-hug you at that time.. Because I myself was shutting down from talking about HP after the last episode. My friends (who are wintergardeners) wondering why I kept silent, not talking to them about HP for a while. I didn’t know what happened to me at that time, it never happened to me while watching dramas — feeling at dark and hopeless.. Only after reading this website I finally see a new light and getting my sense back.
@Miracle23 and @Moonstar512 Thanks for the information on JW and for the encouragement. I’ll certainly need all those snacks to help me power through the show. It’s getting better now that there’s some arc to follow from Ep 4-6. Almost half way through!! I’m guessing from comments and the perpetual fan-wars that the ending was deliberately left open and confounding. Should be a barrel of fun! 🙂
In thinking about Maggot’s brother in the fancy car, is messy maggot a rich girl? Just wondering if she is from a chaebols. Was that pick up a clue to her origins and why, perhaps some of her social interactions come from a privileged cluelessness. Just putting out a strange theory.
On the subject of JW, I am really curious how he becomes the center of so much romantic intrigue. The over the top antics with his pediatric patients (which a mom would either appreciate or find a little creepy) and the crying scene in confessional and over dinner – seemed either overacted or overwritten. (I did laugh when his brother turned out to be the priest in the confessional and somewhat unmoved by it all). I get that he is a good doctor with lots of empathy but frankly the grumpy/mamma boy OB/GYN seems more appealing at this point. Also actress playing JW’s mom mom is the MIL from Full House correct? I like this actress!
*Correction, she is the MIL in Marriage not Dating
https://ourpsychicfg.tumblr.com/post/649200375806689280/hospital-playlist-reply-1994-redux-part-2
Final part.
Caution: If you haven’t watched Reply 1994, these are spoiler-ish in nature. Read at your own risk kekekeke…
Enjoy!!
@Old American Lady, firstly thanks for the warm wish. ^^
Secondly, even if she is from a rich family, it doesn’t make sense for her to be that clueless. In the beginning, she looked down at people i.e. the ER girls who kindly offered her the cookies. Her excuse: She doesn’t eat sweet food. Then we saw her eats all that chocopies. Duh. She also runs around with her mouth talking to the juniors i.e. strangers on Minha’s dating habit and well as gossiping about the professor i.e. Shyeong to his staff. Well, that is not clueless. Ignorant? Or just vain or whatever. Then towards the end they made her a clueless chit, in between talking mindlessly to her patient, again. Yeah, right. As if that is cute. *roll eyes*
Hi, Rosa is played by Kim Hae-sook who was also the grandmother in Start Up. She has been in so many dramas and films since her debut in thev1970’s. She can be a real scene stealer. She is another example of the depth of talent in Korean dramas and films.
@moonstar512 me too, I kept silent after that episode and my friends looked at me like weird. I couldn’t process all the things, but then again this safe space saved me 😊
@Old American Lady – 💯 yes! She was made to look so much older in Start Up that I overlooked that it was the same actress. She is so good! It does strike me that there are lots of meaty roles for character actors in Korean television and I enjoy seeing the same actors show up time and again in different roles.
Hi @Miracle23,I agreewith youabout our maggot woman. Thecharacter is whatwe’d call atechnician, but is lacking in bedside manner(empathy) and sheseems dishonest. Thechocopie incident says a lot,asdoes herchase down thatended inher failure to impress. Unless the writers give her a character arc that shows real growth, I would place her in the category of the fatal,y flawed female rival who may at times seemto getthe guy, but who ultimately fails as a result of her bad acts. As a floeer gardener, I think the clues are there. She seems to have too many bad qualities that would insure redemption. I am also interested to see if they give her a makeover. If that happens, the winter gardeners will be in heaven. I’m ready to take the ride-but my interest will stay on our heroine, SHWA. I want to see her ivercome her health crisis while receiving the support of her male friends. In some ways, she is the glue that holds themtogether as is our obstetrician(who inmany ways has been under the radar. And correct me if I’m wrong, didn’t he confess to SHwa in their youth and didn’t she turn him down..Lots to ponder.
And I hope that for thise ibserving Ramadan, thatthe iftar meal helps sustainyou during this holy time.
@OldAmericanLadies, thanks. Usually I just drink like 900 ml water in the early morning to cover for the whole day. 😅 I got used to it already. When I was in Glasgow, we had fasting month in summer, so it’s over 20 hours of fasting😅. I have trained myself🤭🤭🤭
I found something in Reply 1994. It relates to that running flashback of PG. Lmao. An imitation. No wonder he rejected maggot afterward. It’s because it was not romantic. Just like what Najung did to Chilbong. 😅
@GoodTwin
“ Correction, she is the MIL in Marriage not Dating”
Yes. And you will notice that her costar is the same here too 😂. Parody. This writer/duo draws their inspiration from everywhere. Just like in Marriage Not Dating, Rosa is doing the exact same thing here in HP with her son JWon. And the focus in HP should be on Marriage NOT dating. So pay attention to who talks about marriage as the episodes unfold. 😂. It’s a running joke with this pair. Through all their dramas.
Ahh highfive @annp18 🙌🏻🙌🏻
yes this safe space had saved many lost souls out there 😅😅. I am so looking forward to how we’re in BOD getting stronger together welcoming season 2.
Dear Ladies (and Gentlemen), it is always a pleasure to read you. I haven’t read all the posts yet, but some comments:
@WEnchanteur, I think I haven’t coincided with you in a Drama viewing, so it will be a pleasure. I practiced Buddhism a long while ago, and still love it. Your points on how they represent Buddhism and Catholicism stands: since they are fairly tolerant religion a lot of writers mock them. I still remember a post in DramaBeans about a Drama including a mocking view on Muslims when they still had the upvote/downvote buttons. Man that was the equivalent of a Saloon shooting D= .
@PackMule3, same as above, but I would NOT call the mother’s plight to save her child at all cost selfish. It is said that a powerful merchant once asked a Zen master for him to write a blessing for his home. The old man just wrote “The grandfather dies, then the father dies, then the son dies”. Bewildered, the merchant asked what kind of blessing was that, to which he replied: that is the natural order of people to go away. If the grandson dies before his father or the father before his parent then suffering will be immense.
Personally I come from such a family. A person that should have been my uncle died while still a child drowned in a country club pool (days before he had won a swimming competition and at that time my grandfather was one of the persons cleaning the last remnants of the dictatorship of Marcos Perez Jimenez, so it was probably a political execution). My grandfather was having a drink in the bar and as a medical doctor he was called to save a person that had drowned in the pool… only to find his very son. Years later a friend of mom that didn’t know them at the time recall the horrible moment when the medical doctor turns into a desperate father.
Growing up in the very same block than my grandparents was a lovely experience, but there was something off. Now as an adult I see that there was an acute loss: that of my uncle. So for me ghosts are more the absence, the longing for something (or someone) irrecoverably gone than a malign presence. A sadness a young child can feel but can’t pinpoint… and he died over twenty years before I was born.
My grandfather painted a portrait of him and put it right across his bed, so his dead son was the very first thing he saw when waking up and the last thing he saw when going to sleep… for over forty years that he survived him.
My point is that a parent cannot be considered selfish for not wanting to let his child go. So far I have learned to do my very best in any situation (work, relationships, friendships) mostly because even if things go south at least you should be able to be in peace with yourself.
Also the existential vacuum Andrea found himself (his recurring “dark night of the soul”) resonated with me since that was the view of God my grandpa expressed to me when I still was a college student and we spoke about the topic. So my sympathies goes for the mother this time, dear @packmule3.
“The power that popular shows and movies wield in framing public opinion” –@pckmule. I couldn’t agree more. Look what Hollywood has done. The examples are abundant.
HOnestly I don’t know much about Catholic (and due to the sensitivity of religious matter, I tend to avoid talking about it) so I missed out a lot of details in HP. But I really like people who could talk about it with ease. I wish more people could read this post with open mind. When it comes to religion, the image that pops out in my head is always the one from the movie by Coen Brothers, A Serious Man when the boy (Danny Gopnik) is preparing for his Bar Mitzvah and went to see a Rabbi for some words of wisdom and instead of giving him a long lecture about being Jewish, he just said to the boy : Be a good boy. Though the movie is about Jewish community, but that simple sentence (even cliché) in the movie among the preparation of religious ritual really capture the essence of every religion for me.
@Kanaya indeed, the last episode of HP made me have an heart attack, worst than a broken heart. *big group hug*. But my mood is better after reading everything here.
@WEnchanteur kamehamehaaaaa…I agree some parts of your comments, about the message of a movie/drama/book. The fiction writer most of the time is focused on the story she/he wanted to tell. It is the audience/viewers/readers who revealed the message from their story or from they way they show/tell/write. Like you said, forcing a message or theme just destroyed the storyine. I remember watching one of Bong Joon Ho’s interview about Parasite. Most of the time he was smiling when the interviewer started to explain about the message of his movie.
And why am I talking about this ? I don’t know. I am going to continue read another HP Throwback Thursday. CHeers