When I said let’s not be distracted by the hype for this episode, I should have said let’s not be distracted by the red herrings.
Violin’s brother: (talking about his GF) We were friends long before we started dating. My mother knows her very well, too. We became friends in college.
Songhwa: My gosh. Then how did you suddenly start seeing each other?
VB: She professed her feelings for me out of the blue one day. Last year. She told me that she liked me. I rejected her at first. We were best friends, so I didn’t want things to get awkward. I told her, “I want us to stay best friends.”
VB: That night, I came home and mulled over what I said to her. Then I realized I hadn’t really answered her question. She told me she liked me, but I told her I didn’t want our relationship to get awkward. My answer didn’t make sense. So I started seeing our relationship in a different light. As a man and a woman, not just two friends. Well, I really liked her. When I’m with her, I feel so (chuckling) happy. When I’m with her, I always feel I feel great. Do you have a friend like that too?
Songhwa: Me?
Then, Ikjun the scene-stealer walked by with iced coffee. Songhwa waved at him, and IkJun accidentally poked the coffee straw up his nostril. She stared after him, then laughed.
The way I see it, there are three ways to interpret the VB’s story.
A. Ikjun is the endgame because Songhwa’s “No” = “Yes”.
Sigh. This is how much the IJ’s shippers respect her choice. I can outline their beliefs.
Belief # 1. Songhwa will have a change of heart after listening to the brother’s words.
They want to overlook that Songhwa reflected on IJ’s proposal for weeks, then waited in her car for hours to tell him her answer. Look here: her time is precious but turning down IJ’s proposal was of prime importance to her that she wasted hours sitting in the garage to deliver him her response without delay.
What should her action tell us?
IkJun’s a hard pass for her.
To me, IJ’s shippers must think that Songhwa’s a stupid woman who doesn’t know her own mind, and can’t make up own mind, since they expect her to rethink her decision simply after the Violinist Brother came to visit her, like an archangel, and showed her the “true” path of happiness.
lol. No. I say her feelings for IJ remain the same.
Belief # 2. Songhwa truly likes IJ, and she only rejected him because she felt uncomfortable about their relationship.
They think Songhwa should get over her feeling of discomfort for IJ. If she doesn’t reciprocate IJ’s feeling, then she’s a villain of the love story.
They ignore that the reason Songhwa is laughing again at IJ’s antics is because she doesn’t feel threatened by another declaration of love from him after her rejection. She expects him to respect her decision.
Should he renew his courtship, she’d clam up again.
Belief # 3. She could be persuaded to see IJ as a man.
Serious question: How could she see IkJun as a man when he does these lame and childish jokes?
Follow-up question: Does this look manly to you? 🤮
Belief # 4. Songhwa finds IJ supremely funny and being funny is enough for her to override all their incompatible lifestyle and different values.
Okay… in the past two episodes alone, there were at least four scenes when IJ made her laugh:
a. his Daddy-Long-Legs joke that she has short legs
b. the bronze mask
c. the missing pelvis
d. the straw-in-the-nostril. This is so juvenile.
But there’s a difference as wide as a circus tent between laughing AT somebody and laughing WITH somebody. Songhwa’s laughing AT IkJun because he’s a clown, and he puts on quite a show. But she isn’t laughing WITH him because they aren’t on the same page.
Being friends with the clown isn’t the same as marrying the clown.
More importantly, viewers shouldn’t conflate “funny” with “happy.” Just because she laughs at IJ’s funny jokes doesn’t meant that she’ll find her happiness — and its variants: joy and bliss — with him.
This is happiness.
And this.
Belief # 5. Her “no” is NOT an actual “no.”
IJ’s fans think her “no” is a negotiable and flexible “yes.”
They think he only has to act like a goofball 24/7 and she’ll find him lovable. Never mind the fact that nobody clowns his way to love. I expect more wisdom and maturity from the writer and director. But then, I’m not Korean, and maybe they have a different idea of what “no” means.
Belief # 6. IkJun’s accident with the straw going up his nose is a momentous event for Songhwa.
Don’t they get how preposterous, and gross, it is to view IJ’s straw-in-the-nose moment as THE gamechanger? That somehow Songhwa suddenly realized how much she loved IJ because he had a straw up his nostril?
Just imagine this conversation between Songhwa and her grandkids —
Grandkids: Grandma! Grandma! Tell us again when you finally discovered that you love Grandpa?
Songhwa: Well, kids. I realize he was my greatest love when I saw him with that straw up his nostril.
Do you get me? 🤪
This moment is a red herring.
By trolling the viewers with the appearance of IkJun, the director was able to distract the viewers from the main reason Songhwa was looking pensive as the Violinist’s brother spoke about his girlfriend.
Here’s the real reason for me.
B. Songhwa is inspired by the courage of the GF.
Listening to the brother recount the story of his GF’s love confession, Songhwa realizes that she can take a page from the GF’s playbook and also profess her feelings for JW “out of the blue one day.” To rephrase the brother’s words, Songhwa needs to make JW see their “relationship in a different light. As a man and a woman, not just two friends.” Deep down inside, she wants JW to realize the same thing that the Violinist’s brother did when his Girlfriend proposed. Songhwa wants JW to realize that she makes him happy, and that they’re great together.
We’ve been saying here all along that the Daddy-Long-Legs’ project is just an outward manifestation of their feelings for each other. It’s JW’s “heart” and he gave it to Songhwa for nurturing when he thought he was leaving. Songhwa has expanded the outreach program, and JW is proud of her successes. In his mind, he’s still very much a part of the project.
In more ways than one, “this” is a good direction for them.
That’s why watching the JW’s scenes with Maggot doesn’t bother me. There’s no heart in that relationship, and I don’t see Jang “expanding” the “program” at all considering that she didn’t want their relationship revealed. There’s no originality as they’re merely crossing off the checklist of “First” tropes, e.g., first backhug, first umbrella sharing, first dinner date, first car ride, first hand-holding, first “sweet dreams.” It’s perfunctory like they’re following a script (it’s meta!).
Now, here’s the third interpretation.
C. She didn’t really respond to SeonBin’s question.
Just like the Violinist’s brother, she realizes that her reply to SeonBin didn’t make sense.
Songhwa: Why would I go on a blind date with my patient’s brother? (shakes her head) I told her I’m not comfortable with it.
SB: Nevertheless, she probably won’t give up. Just tell her that you have a boyfriend.
Songhwa: Do I have to lie? I don’t care.
SB: But it’s annoying. Just pick one of your friends and say he’s your boyfriend. Tell her you’re getting married soon.
Songhwa: (smiling at the thought)
SB: Otherwise, she really won’t give up. (suddenly getting a bright idea) What about him? The owner of Yulje Medical Center. A rich heir.
Then came the JW interruption. After he left, they picked up the conversation where they left off.
Songhwa: (correcting SB) Jeongwon doesn’t own this hospital. This hospital doesn’t have an owner. Look here. I’ll take care of it, okay?
SB: Then, what about him? If it’s him, they’ll believe you. Your best friend who always makes you laugh. Professor Lee Ikjun.
Songhwa: Ahhh.
SB: If you ask him, he’ll totally do it for you.
Songhwa: He’s busy, and so am I.
Do you see it? This is another red herring. She dodged Seonbin’s question about JW as a fake boyfriend, and diverted the attention on JW as a rich chaebol.
I’ll simplify the dialogue:
Seonbin: What about asking JW to be your pretend boyfriend? He’s rich.
Songhwa: He’s not rich.
Seonbin: What about IJ? He’s your best friend.
Songhwa: He’s busy and so am I.
Just like the VB, she didn’t really answer the question, “Why not ask JW to pretend to be her boyfriend?”
Instead of answering SeonBin’s question, she focused on correcting SeonBin’s misconception. Why couldn’t she have given a straight answer like she did with IkJun? She easily rejected IJ with a simple fact. They were both busy. She could have said the same thing of JW.
To me, the reason she couldn’t ask JW to be her pretend boyfriend is because she liked him for real, but he was already dating Jang.
Which brings me to the “I like you” confession, the biggest red herring there was in this episode.
This is a red herring for me. Do you know why?
Because the title of the song isn’t “I like you.” I searched the lyrics and there was no mention of “I like you.” The title is “나는 너 좋아” or “Naneun no choa.”
아직은 사랑을 몰라 몰라
그래도 우리는 좋아 좋아
알수 없는 너의 고백이 내 가슴을 뛰게 하지만
그런 말은 너무 어려워 싫어 싫어
남들이 나에게 말하기를
귀여운 웃음이 좋다나요
그러나 이제는 안 그래요
나만의 비밀이 생겼어요
하지만 나는 너 좋아
사랑일지도 몰라
하지만 나는 너 좋아
사랑일지도 몰라
남들이 나에게 말하기를
귀여운 웃음이 좋다나요
그러나 이제는 안 그래요
나만의 비밀이 생겼어요
하지만 나는 너 좋아
사랑일지도 몰라
하지만 나는 너 좋아
사랑일지도 몰라
라라라라라라라라
라라라라라라라라
라라라라라라라라
라라라라라라라라
Source: Musixmatch
Songwriters: Cho Yong Pil
Songhwa translated the title, and said it in English in order to trick JW that she was just saying the title, instead of declaring her feelings.
It’s also the director’s red herring. This was a big clue to the endgame but the director wanted to distract our attention and mislead us to think that:
a. Songhwa was innocently answering JW’s question,
b. JW understood which song she was referring to,
c. JW just had to ask HER (of all people!) for the name of the song when he could have easily found it out on the group chat.
This was an inside joke from the director.
SB: What about him? The owner of Yulje Medical Center. A rich heir.
Then, the fanfare played.
I know Flower Gardeners are quick to spot that this was the same background tune played when Songhwa knocked out the abusive dad Jang was chasing with a water jug. This fanfare is called “Charge!” (or the “Hero’s theme”) and played in stadiums during a baseball game just before an important move. Note: when IkJun appeared in the straw-in-the-nose accident, there was no fanfare. He wasn’t “charging” anywhere with Songhwa. hahaha.
It’s these six notes.
source: wikipedia
JW: (bursting into the room) Songhwa. What’s the song for this week?
Applause soundtrack.
Seokmin: (making a gesture towards JW) Hello.
JW: Oh, hello.
Songhwa: (touching her glasses and smiling at him) “I like you.”
JW: (sighing) Who picked it?
Songhwa: Ikjun. (looking down)
JW: Is he trying to kill us or what? (closing the door behind him)
Comments:
1. We knew about her tic, right? She was about to be sneaky here so she felt uncomfortable for a second.
2. If you haven’t noticed it yet, Songhwa doesn’t use English colloquially. She doesn’t readily integrate English words in her conversation like IJ does.
And she didn’t know what “flex” meant…which is rather funny because I said that Korean medical world must have been “flexing” when the famous violinist chose to return to Korea for her brain surgery instead of staying in Germany.
To flex is a power move. It’s to show off, or to make a move that shows one power, bravado, or superiority.
For Songhwa to translate the title of the song “Naneun no choa,” and to quip “I like you” to JW is a “flex” for her. It’s a power move which was cute.
3. This is the second time that Songhwa made it known to JW that she liked him…in a joking fashion. This was the first time:
It’s often said that there’s truth in humor. With Songhwa’s case, she expresses her feelings jokingly, with a smile, rather than saying then directly in order in order to test the water.
The lyrics from “Rain and You” was a foreshadowing of a break-up, I said.
4. Two words: Reply series.
I told you all this before: Deoksun (Reply 1988) and Trash (Reply 1984) both proposed with a joke. Then in Reply 1988, the girl always thought the guy was joking about liking her.
5. JW was breaking the fourth wall when he said, “Is Ikjun trying to kill us or what?” He was talking about IJ’s villainy, just to Songhwa, but to the audience as well. There’s a double meaning to this as you all know.
So, there you go. My take on Episode 3. Take it or leave it. I’m sure however that the FGers have come to the same conclusion as I have that we’re our little canoe is doing well.
The rest of the episode was easy to follow. JWan and Iksun’s relationship hit a rough patch; we expected this, didn’t we? I mentioned this in my notes. But as much as I don’t like IkSun’s character and I wanted somebody for JWan, I expect this relationship to overcome this misunderstanding. It’s just a hiccup. I think it’s rather too late to add another character to replace IkSun in JWan’s corner…unless the character is already here.
Have a good weekend! And to my fellow Americans, Happy Fourth of July!
Yes. All of this. It’s what I tried to say in my comment on the alfresco thread but you made it sound much smarter.
@pm3 i love how well you explain this!!!
I am so irritated with the ppl saying that songhwa’s no to IJ doesn’t really mean no. She is shown to be wise and sensible throughout the series and she did took a long time decide how she’s going to break the news. It didn’t make any sense if she suddenly sees the spark with IJ after the convo with violinist’s brother… especially with that lame joke😂😂😂
You also elaborate it perfectly how i like you as the title of the song was a red herring. I didn’t realize it until you pointed out how it’s not that common for songhwa to speak english (first by asking the meaning of the word villain, then flex). Now it makes sense why the writer sneaks in that part where she asked seonbin about what flex means.
I agree with what PG said, they’re in a good direction now. We just have to be patient. I remember after PG said the word “us”, IJ tried to steal the spotlight again by joking. I don’t know if he did it on purpose or not 😂
@Birdie007, I’ll respond to you in the Alfresco thread.
THIS. thanks @pm3 for putting it out to everyone (yes, for everyone).
shinlee might want to litter our eyes with those scenes (yes, the cringey ones), but you can not unhear songhwa’s not flashy confession.
👏👏👏🍪🍪🍪
I do see LeeShin trying to provide character growth for IJ this ep. He seemed different this ep? He had moments where he seemed gallant? 😂. He stepped up when SHwa asked him about doing the MokPo surgery. He went over and beyond in his response to his rival. It’s LeeShin’s attempt to make him level up 😂 and present him as a “worthy suitor”. But yeah, red herring. Diversion. The straw in the nose did it. He bought coffee for Jang? Ice Americano? 😂 Even though he said it was for the nurses, he passed them over to her?
@packmule I want to say sorry in advance. I wrote my comment regarding red herrings and reply 1988 in the alfresco thread for ep3 before reading this! I didn’t do it intentionally! Songhwa is definitely going to be the one pushing the relationship. She has always been more aware of her feelings. JW’s relationship with Jang is good as a first relationship. The VB love story is definitely used as a tool to push Songhwa forward; I think she’s slowly building up the courage to be proactive with JW.
Hear, hear 🥂🥂
Thank you @packmule3! The hidden message in the scripts, their links. LWJ… I am watching you 🥸
Thanks @PM3! I Like Ep3 because of the things you pointed out. It was tricky with so many red herrings and trolling but FG canoe is paddling on the right direction. I am not worried at all. Cheers and happy 4th of July weekend!!!
Right, Janey?
Don’t you think so, too? I get why IkJung’s fans think this Violinist’s Brother is a catalyst for change.
But to say that Songhwa is going to cancel her decision because she had epiphany after their discussion that IJ is not just a best friend, but THE man for her is just plain bullshit. Like, what was she doing all that time in the car? Twiddling her thumbs?
This is so insulting to thinking women. 🤦♀️
Thanks for this pauckmule3!
To be very honest I feel chastised reading this, until now I haven’t noticed just how much I and kdramas in general really do not take a woman’s no as no. Like you rightly pointed out, she deliberated on this for a very long time before she gave Ik Jun her answer, so why am I doubting that she will change her mind in a split second.
Rejuvenated and paddling the FG canoe with all my vim!
No matter how annoying I find IJ for his grandstanding and his interference, I can’t fault him for his medical skills. I’ve always thought he was a good and dedicated doctor.
That coffee scene with Jang, and that scene when he bragged about the Quiz show: Jang converses more naturally with him.
Thank you @packmule3, you summarized it well 🍪☕
Good catch on SHwa answering SB’s idea to have a fake bf. She didn’t really gave her the answer yeah. After she told SB that SB is busier than her, the convo ended by her did that tic again, like dropping all the nervousness in the convo that made her answer obviously directing to another way.
Were you one of those doubting Songhwa’s decision, @Esst3? 😂 That’s okay.
I’m didn’t read the comments, to be honest. I came back from a trip and started writing my commentary as soon as I got home.
But yes for me it’s bad messaging from the writer and director (but when have they been good, really? 😂) to show a grown-ass woman suddenly changing her deliberation because she heard a love story from a stranger. I should think Songhwa is long past that impressionable age. 😂😂
100% agree with you, @PM3! No means No.
The violinist brother’s story is a catalyst for SHwa to (someday) admit her feelings to JW. To mirror the story, SHwa = the girl (now GF for the brother) who has a long time romantic feelings to someone and confessed out of the blue. If that someone is Ikjun, then she should not have turned him down. It’s not SH who she turned down already. Not Jwan either so that leaves JW. Just because Ikjun confessed does not make him = the girl in the story and SHwa = the brother. Wrong parallelism, I think.
“Which one of these does not go with the others?”
What writer Lee did with her scripts, and Shin PD with his directing remind me a lot of when I played with IQ tests. The key in resolving them is to find the exact matching element or similar patterns. In Looney’s case,
1. The girl confessed vs The boy (Ikjun)
2. Looney’s best friend confessed DIRECTLY vs Ikjun’s hypothetical confession
3. Looney told her right away that it will be awkward between them, that he wanted them to remain friends vs Shwa was taking longer to think before she dropped the bomb.
4. Looney only recalibrated his thought AFTER he gave his answer vs Shwa thought FIRST before finalising her answer. She never recalibrated again because it’s, well, FINAL. lol
These are already the biggest anomalies/ deviations from the whole pattern in Looney’s love story which is the basis to follow.
Happiness vs Fun. Who would think they are the same? lol
P/S: That’s another deviation from the Looney’s basis kekekekeke
Hi @packmule3! I thought that scene with the violinist’s brother, Shwa and Ikjun appearing in the end as red herring too! Time and time again we see Shwa’s wisdom and character shine through since S1 with her interactions with friends, patients, and colleagues..I didn’t think she would suddenly change her thought just because somebody, let alone a stranger told her something, right?! Besides she’s known Ikjun since med school days, if she made a big decision to turn him down because she doesn’t like him romantically, that wouldn’t change overnight.
this post couldn’t have arrived at a better time @pm3! and i sure miss celebrating 4th of july in the states, and not just bcoz of the fireworks..
a question for everyone here including you @pm3: do you think shwa’s gonna make bigger moves now (like confessing her feelings) that she’s encouraged by the violinist’s brother’s girlfriend? or is she gonna wait until WG breaks up and continue dropping hints like her cute “i like you”?
and btw just to add to the definition of happiness aside from songhwa managing DLL & eating cake, i do think that shwa’s beautiful expression while seeing jwon eating risotto last season is the perfect example of what her happiness looks like. and she said it herself, “lastly, there’s you: seeing others enjoy good food makes you happier than when you’re eating it yourself.”
The writer and director has been trolling us big time with the first few episodes. They have to provide a huge fan service first to satisfy the majority of the audience and get them hook, line and sinker before they drive their point home.
Thanks for this @packmule3!
Lol @pm3 you really have a great sense of humor and i love it!
Well, you know how ikjun fans are. They think “No” means “Yes” and “Get lost” means “Take me I’ m yours” 😝
Thanks @pkml3 and everyone! I think I was sniggering whenever it occurred to me that the contrary shippers were being trolled. I wisely read no other posts on HP2, therefore I’m only guessing that there must be volumes of posts going around in self congratulations. This PD-Writer duo are ‘evil’!!!
@GB, if Ikjun+Songhwa are indeed the endgame, then what’s the point of dragging JW into the fray (esp when he already has a girlfriend), and writing that “I like you” line for Songhwa? In this sense, the director and writer are “evil” because they take perverse delight in trolling the audience and sowing confusion and anxiety among the shippers.
Nobody except for us here in BoD, nrllee’s soompi, and @miracle23’s reddit, is actively rooting for Songhwa and JW anyway. Nobody except for us will read much into that “I like you” remark of Songhwa. That’s why being a FG is only for the patient and forbearing. 🙂 We get only crumbs, and even then, we have to beat back the bigger teams. Oh well. It’s all for fun anyway.
When I first saw this scene, I thought it was going well for FG…and then IJ showed up at the end and I felt thrown off. Like he’s still in the picture? The show isn’t letting go of him yet even after SHwa said no, continuing to let viewers think she might change her mind. But yes, it was a red herring and this post explains everything!
Good observations about SHwa’s conversation with SB. True, why would she say the title in English? After all, it’s a Korean song with a Korean title. And SHwa’s reply to SB after she suggested JWon as a fake bf seems like she wanted to defend him from others’ view of him as a rich chaebol heir. She appreciates his non-materialistic character and wants others to see him that way too.
I am just assisting in reddit, @pm3. 🙂 Our captains of reddit @daerli and @parker, I am sorry reddit has been rather quiet since months ago. Many of us are busy with life commitments. @parker is back with us here, though. Hope to see @daerli soon! I know she is probably watching S2 in the comfort of her home. ;P
Thank you @pm3 you really make ep 3 bearable to rewatch now. ❤️
I can’t help but noticing PG green sweater with OLIVER on it, I search that in a musical “Maybe Happy Ending” Oliver and Claire are 2 old Robots that create fake love story.
They make up their fake backstory of how they met and fell in love. running under the umbrella in the rain, hold hands like normal people do.
That makes me think that’s why in the drama WG looked like robots when holding hands LOL
This is the link for one of the musical song “my favorite love story”
https://youtu.be/unu8PYjQ2b0
And what a coincidence that Mido the actress is performing the same musical (Korean version)
@pkml3
Precisely, … the level of trolling is ‘malevolent’! Viewers who just want an easy watch without thinking so hard will be expecting the obvious, but are going to be gobsmacked by the denouement. Personally, when a Show does that to me, I get very annoyed LOL.
And especially, as you say, because OD-Writer take a “perverse delight” in doing this. That’s so mean.
About how SHwa deflected when responding to SB’s suggestion that JW could be the fake boyfriend, I felt that she could never have given a straight answer to that, because she does want him to be the true boyfriend, but cannot make it obvious.
If she’d said ‘sure’, then she would be lying that it was acceptable. She wouldn’t want to fake-bf zone him.
If she’d said ‘no’, it was almost admitting that she wanted him to be the true bf.
The only answer she could give was a non-answer, in this case a deflection on the misunderstanding that JW owned the hospital.
Yes, it’s certainly fun to be watching this show, daring to stand firm as the minority, and having a ‘helluva’ time enjoying it!!
*Applause soundtrack* for @packmule3 !
You really write and explain well what we in the alfresco thread keep on blabbering about. Thank you, as always. FGs canoes, as you said, have to be like swans/ducks– serene on the surface but intense beneath the surface! Aye! Aye!
I like how you emphasized that SHwa translated the title into English– that was a villane-y move from her! Smart SHwa ready to troll viewers just like ShinLee is doing in these s2 episodes.
Wow @Letta thanks for another aha-moment.
Ah, yes,@Packmule3…you don’t read comments until you’ve written your analysis/es, so you missed my Monty Python reference on the latest Alfresco thread. I thought you’d be amused, even though I’m sincere in my belief ShinLee knowingly (nod, nod, wink wink) employed timeworn symbolism but, as encouragement to us FGers, kept the train and the tunnel separate. (And I couldn’t help but snigger when I saw that.) As @Fern pointed out in response to my comment, Hitchcock set the standard for using this imagery as sexual innuendo at the end of North by Northwest; Directornim ought to be familiar with Hitchcock’s oeuvre, you’d think. So Directornim showed us a twist on the train/tunnel cliché, and I interpret it as notice this train is on a different path.
You gave us a timely reminder, @Packmule3, that our titular Wise Doctor is SHwa. She deliberated long and well before giving IJ her answer to his question. She is not a flag, flapping in every breeze. Her reasoning behind her verdict was solid. And we’ve been told that once Shwa decides something, she’s unshakeable.
Aahh! Nice connection, @Letta! Great research there!
Yes, that Oliver sweatshirt JW had on got me wondering what he was advertising. This makes a nice link to Jang and JW going through the motions of dating like robots creating a fake love story.
Thank you for sharing!!
Brilliant @packmule3. These implied action/reactions by SHwa are clear enough it’s Jwon who she wants. We only need to wait for a little while before Jwon comes to his senses with his childish escapades w/ Maggot. I knew all along that SHwa’s meeting w/ the patient’s brother would be a catalyst to her long, held-back feelings. She was contemplating on the similarities of the circumstance she’s in. Although it’s painful to watch Jwon’s cringy moments w/ Jang & this current stage with her is his biggest low, I said it before that he might be given a pass considering he’s the inexperienced among the five. The others have already experienced what it’s like to be in serious relationships, break-ups, divorce, etc., while here he is basking in the exhilaration & the novelty of new-found puppy love. Honestly, what I’m really excited about is SHwa’s moves, on how she will navigate her rapport w/ Jwon as she decides to become vocal of her feelings for him.
@pm3 You are most welcome, you can read the full plot here and maybe make a lot better observation:
https://koreanmusicals.tumblr.com/maybe-happy-ending-info
Oliver is trying to find his previous Owner in Jeju who had seem to forget about him. Anyway At the end the 2 robots agreed to erase each other memories.
“It’s a pity to delete all those memories
Those memories which shine
What we need to forget, need to erase
Is how much be both loved and treasured each other
Thank you for knocking on my door
Thank you for opening the door for me
You’re welcome
Bye Oliver
Bye Claire”
Flower Garden keep sailing let’s go!
Yes @GB @packmule3 watching this duo’s dramas is NOT for the faint of heart. We’ve had to be EXTRA patient this time because of the seasonal format. Usually it’s over and done with in a few months? This war has stretched for over a year. And we’ve had to bunker down for longer than usual. Frankly I am glad it’s just 2 seasons. Had it been 3, it would’ve been even harder 🤣.
@Letta 😂😂😂 that is so apt! Oliver and Claire! It would fit perfectly with the whole MIB neutralizer nod. Erasing it from our memories. I can totally see this duo doing that. From that kiss in Ep12 on the whole PaBo character arc just didn’t make sense. If we erase it all, and leave us without WG scenes and references to them dating it would make total sense. He stayed because of the kids, not because of a woman. And he remained single till SHwa and he decided to tie the knot. 😂😂😂
@Letta what a finding! Great job! And @nrllee the neutraliser lmao….hahahaha…. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Thanks @Letta, for that ‘Oliver’ reference. I watched the clip you gave the link to and the following video was excerpts from the Korean original musical with Jeon Mi Do. We can see her her version of Claire at timestamp 3:39. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPCyNOczSjg
It’s one of those Easter Eggs again, I feel. A very obscure reference to something entirely outside HP, that sheds light on what is going on. And the only link we are given is an Oliver jumper worn by JW!!!
It’s too much of a coincidence that the robots who are not supposed to be able to fall in love are referenced, in the episode in which SHwa is asked to choose a fake boyfriend, and while JW and Jang are behaving strangely robotic. Plus the Dutch Angle kiss and the weird setting for it all. It felt so intentionally wrong in so many ways. As if hiding a fake in plain sight.
@packmule3 as always I feel so enlightened after reading your posts – I find it so amazing each time how you dissect every single moment whereas for me it’s more about the big picture. While I initially read SHwa’s expressions to be those of guilt for maybe not answering IJ properly, your analysis makes so much sense considering IJ confessed to her in such a roundabout manner himself. SHwa just returned the punch back
again, this plot line is all about Songhwa’s choice and it is exasperating to see how so many viewers undermine her agency, or seem to think she’s some clueless teenage girl waiting to be enlightened herself. I think many shippers forget that Songhwa is a 40 year old woman…and very much independent and intelligent. It’s really a shame to see viewers patronise her for not liking IJ back…
With JWon, ShinLee are definitely going to have FG get together with a bang after slowly planting the seeds…when JWon finally gets his wake up call, it’ll be a glorious moment indeed.
@GB aww thank you for the link, I have not seen this one. Oliver holds a pot of plant (flower?) another easter eggs yay
@miracle @nrllee @pm3 this blog taught and train my eyes for little things in the drama.. thank you right back at y’all
You’re welcome @Letta! And if anyone managed to watch more of that Korean version of the musical, you’ll see surprise, surprise! Jung Moon Sung (Dr Do Jae Hak) singing (timestamp 10:43) as well!!! Moon Tae Yoo (Dr Yong Seok Min) is supposed to be in the revival performance.
This is the YT ‘blurb’ that goes with the musical highlights:
“Binge-watch ‘Maybe a Happy Ending’ Highlight Numbers [Stay At Home Theatre]
16 Apr 2020 • The tvN drama ‘Hospital Playlist’ is really playing it’s part for viewers.
Showing their presence, the stars are originally musical actors! (Are you watching the show? 😆)
Among them, Jeon Mi-do, Jung Moon-sung, and Moon Tae-yoo. When you see these three, there are works that keep stepping on landmines… It’s the musical ‘Maybe a Happy Ending’ about the love story of old robots.”
@GB As soon as @Letta mentioned Maybe Happy Ending, I remembered watching one scene where the robots kiss. And it reminded me of the WG kiss in Ep3. Where Jang pecks PaBo and then giggles…and they repeat it.
And there’s an umbrella scene 😂😂😂. No wonder WG were bouncing up and down in that umbrella scene. Man MiDo’s voice is phenomenal.
https://youtu.be/3Q5QgVoNsO0
Here she is with JaeHak 😂😂😂. Oliver holds a plant. 😂😂😂. Must admit it felt weird seeing her kiss JaeHak. The metas though… 😂😂😂.
https://youtu.be/NIh8cYB7muU
And in the video @GB linked, Claire put on a beanie underneath the umbrella. Jang. 😂😂
This would fit with why the WG dynamic seems so cheesy and over the top cutesy. It’s like that in musicals. But of course specifically in this one Oliver and Claire are robots. And I am waiting for when Shin will erase WG. Neuralized. And for Oliver to return to Jeju in the end. With his flower… 😂😂
@nrllee IKR? Metas, metas everywhere and I wonder if there’s a WG to notice them LOL.
✨✨✨ thank you @pacmule3 as always … I agree with you. And @letta Aha! thank you for sharing the info about Maybe Happy Ending … good finding ✨✨
Wow thank you so much @packmule for this post and @Letta for the maybe happy ending references.
@GB
I don’t think WG shippers would notice everything that we discussed here in BOD. Their eyes and mind are clouded by how romantic and cute WG relationship are now. Hahaha..
Let’s keep sailing everybody
🛶🛶🛶
Great meta findings on Oliver and the Maybe Happy Ending musical!!! Wow! These are not obscure references given the writer-director works. Well done FGers!!!
I’ve been watching the links and it’s awesome to find several actors in HPL doing theater and singing. Mido sings so well and so did the other 2 doctors.
Good morning,
Wow, the discussion here is a gold mine. I just finish watched ep 3 last night and even though I’ve watched before without subs, I still believe on FG.
It was annoying to watch all those lovey dovey scenes with Maggot and Pabo but when I looked at it again, their kiss next to rail, tunnel and by the side of the road was really like teenager who are afraid their parents would know that they know how to kiss now. There is no elegant, classy date as expected by a 40 yrs old, respected doctor. (sorry I don’t mean to be age-ist here.).
But overall, I think Hp S2 faces the problem of seasonal series. The repetitive themes and repetitive cases in the hospital, we can feel that it is hard for them to keep it fresh, so now I feel like they heavily rely on the couple storyline, thus the strange kind of editing and red herrings everywhere to keep the shippers confuse and keep on guessing. When I lurked into twitter, there are obviously some fears from both bigger shippers. They could sense that there is something strange about WG (it’s too good to be true but they don’t want to admit it). The fear is bigger now after “I Like You” scene.
So basically, I am not worried about FG. Specially after reading @PML3. I am very much convince that FG will sail.
The storyline aside, @Miracle list of Fab5’s development is very clear, which character has been growing and developed well. But then again, I had a feeling that LWJ wanted to create a complex three-dimensional character through all the lacking 5.
So far, IJ, SH, JWan and Shwa have been smoothly and seamlessly developed through their interactions with people around them and we feel that all of them are perfectly unperfect. They are human after all. BUT PaBo, It seems like they want to make PaBo even more complex character (priest wannabe, chaebol, DLL, childish, phylantropist, etc) as ML, with more complex story line (live off of his friends, dating his resident). It’s a messy character development and ShinLee have difficulties to weave this mess, I guess. OR they wanted him to be like that. I just hope they have a reasonable explanation later.
@packmule3 FYI Can confirm that the other side are coming to lurk and read and are getting all riled up 😂😂😂. Despite all your warnings about it not being good for their mental state. They just can’t help themselves can they?
Jang referred to PaBo as a ticking time bomb. When he goes off…😂😂 it’ll be carnage for WGrs.
Happy 4th of July to all Americans! Have a great weekend!!
Thank you @packmule3 🌷🌷🌷🌷
And great catch @Letta, Something off when they date. I really miss ahn jeong won character in season 1. Yeah, they are robot couple and they will erase their memories each other.
I surprise when the title of song band not english. And shwa make a smooth move (confession not flashy) when she said “i like youu” 🥰
Funny and happy are different for shwa. She always laugh and smile at ikjun jokes, but when seobin suggest ikjun to be her fake boyfriend she look hesitate. If she like ikjun, she must shy and blush.
Until now, what made shwa happy were camping stuff, succes operation and DLL. And after this episode, i think she will take a action to show her affection to jwon.
When WG breakup, she will take action like she going to sheld in 1999. She will make a “coincidental moment”
😊
@Letta, thank you for pointing that out, I am watching it now in Youtube. I love Jeon Mi Do. This makes me want to watch her theater performance
@Letta Very interesting about the Oliver connection! Thanks to others too for added info and insights. IJ’s shirt during band practice said something on it too (living in the city). Wonder if there’s any significance to that? I can’t think of any except for the fact that he said loves city life which is the opposite of SHwa.
@BulmaGoku Good observations, especially about JWon…seems they are making him too complex to the point of being confusing. I’m also waiting for a reasonable explanation.
@BulmaGoku, good one there on creating multi-dimensional character. We’ll see if his complexities will be reveal later.😉
YYS x MIDO’s relay cams have been subbed.
https://youtu.be/QsH10p4W_Gc
https://youtu.be/FIWCzYT1NwU
Enjoys!
@pm3 thanks for the much needed post, as another poster on this thread said, I too can now rewatch the episode in peace 😌
I understand the flex part better now. Initially, my thought was that when SHwa asked the meaning of flex to SB, it showed that she was a generation behind from the present one, so inspite of being a renowned doctor in a male-dominated field, she still *may* have had reservations about her gender esp. when it came to love – case in point being it may not have hit her in her teenage years that a girl can take the first step and confess, as, in the 90s, men/boys were known to take the “first step” first (being a 90s kid myself, this was pretty much the norm growing up). That was my original thought process, but your rationale also fits.
@Letta thanks so much for the explanation on Oliver, so suited to the blah outing he’d just had with Jang lmaooo
@nrllee great to see lurkers still get their feathers ruffled when their “ship” is actually actively sailing lol But our villain SHwa will bedazzle the whole fandom, and they ain’t ready 🥰
@Miracle23 aaaaa thank you for linking the subbed relay cam interviews ❤️ Wonder who’s going to be next because Mido didn’t do the segment of passing on the relay cam. I want to see Dae-myung oppa’s interview next 😀
Wohoho..so the song title is actually in korean… echoing @felixthecat, smooth move, Prof Chae 🥰🥰🥰
@Miracle23 – Thank you for the links to Relay cams. IT was fun seeing them on it. It is just me, all these stuff are pretty superficial. Are they really like that in reality. Probably not. Or maybe they are. But it was still fun seeing them.
@Miracle, I want to understand PaBo’s character.
@Packmule, do you have a hidden article about PaBo that you haven’t share ? Could you please kindly share it with us? .
Maybe I am wrong, but here is what I thought about him.
Admittedly, 4 of the lacking 5 so far we know that they are not what they seem. SH is different when he wears his white coat. JunWan is feared by his patient because he is fierce (tho he is getting better thanks to Jae-Hak). IJ is a clown, a goofball, but we know he has another side of him that hidden behind all his jokes. And Shwa, although she looks perfect inside out, nice to anybody, she can be very assertive too. she is basically detached when it comes to her love life and maybe some other thing too. And all of them, their development, always in line with their personality, on whatever situation they were in. They are consistent with their character.
Now PaBo. PaBo is a strange kind of animal.
Not in a good way like Take who was also an exotic kind of character in KDrama world.
One of the reasons why I was attracted to Reply 1988. Because he is a unique ML. Taek has all the characteristic of ML, rich, quiet, keep his thought for himself. but he was presented with different angle and turned the cliché upside down. He is kind. Very polite. Not tsundere type. Looks like a kid. He has a weird sense of humor when he teased Deok-Sun. No over the top show off of usual ML. And Taek was presented mostly through other character’s POV, so nobody paying attention to him. People thought he was just one of the kids and they are more focus to JungPal because most of the time it is JungPal’s POV that we saw.
Back to PaBo. He is a new kind of ML, with ML characteristic too, but supposed to be a more advance and more complex prototype from Taek,
He is a chaebol. He is a philanthropist that we can understand by his chaebol background.
He is poor because of his philanthropic cause. (super cool)
He wanted to be a priest (that’s unique), we can still understand that he wants to serve, it also matches with his philanthropic adventure.
But he also lives off of his friends (staying in Junwan’s house. Got the car for free from Shwa. Buying coffee with IJ’s cards.) In another words, his philanthropic activity is supported indirectly by the whole gang.
What is the point of giving all your money to help while you have to be dependent on someone else? He cannot calculate his own needs. It’s good that he has good friends who are willingly to help. Personally, I really don’t like rich people who pretend they are poor. Specially if it shown i.e a rich boy who came to school wearing worn out clothes, ripped pants or sweater and acting like a poor kid just to look cool while there is a real poor boy who must save every penny to buy decent clothes).
He has childish tendency. (Ok, everyone has an inner child within, that’s cool too).
And then He abandoned his priesthood for a woman, that’s what he said. And the whole building up of his character crumbling down.
Combine all of that in one man, he is an abstract patchwork at best. He can be a Frankenstein monster who will hunt down his creator.
@BulmaGoku, that is why I asked above if he is a psycopath 🤭🤭🤭
If you see these 99ers, they either have two or more sides of them. E.g. ikjun can be goofy one minute and serious next.
PG has this childish nature in him where he throws tantrum when he feels unfairly treated by his family, and friends. He is devout, humble and live frugally. He does not like attention unto him.
Maybe he finds it ok to live off his friends but until when?🤷♀️
He also has this very cool side of him when he become the chaebol guy, the charismatic guy and when he is dedicated in fulfilling his endeavours. If you notice his tones of voice also changes between characters.
He can be sneaky/ sly i.e. Hawai threat to get Jwan. He lies too.
People don’t expect him to remember the most mundane of things for years but he did. E.g. Shyeong’s dad. And he is a very good keeper of secrets like Shyeong and Shwa.
One would think he will be a good judge of character but he fails with fangirl.
Unfortunately, the biggest thing that is lacking for PG is his pov. The reason to stay that came out from his mouth contradicts what was written in his character description. I can’t explain why it is so. We are not given his insight. Maybe it will be revealed in the later episodes.
To me, if YYS/PG was meant to be the main OTP, ShinLee will hold on to his pov as long as they could. If until the last ep, we do not get our answer on his pov, I would just decide that ShinLee have gone loco with developing characters cos they can’t pick a struggle and stick with it. They will go straight to my blacklist. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@Miracle and @BulmaGoku, you’ve hit the nail on the head on why I’ve never been enamoured of JW, although I could never say why. Especially, when most others praise him sky high. His character’s rationale is not given to us. I felt it too with Jang Gyeoul, but JW is supposed to be one of the 5 leads… and a contender for SHwa’s heart, so it’s sorely lacking.
I can’t say that much is revealed to us about Jung Wan either, except that he seems consistent, and therefore there are less question marks around his character.
Dear Friends, first what is first:
Happy 4th of July for all our American Friends!!! =D
Second, I found this in the Korea Times about “Maybe Happy Ending”:
https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/art/2021/05/690_292680.html
That said I haven’t read all your Posts, but to go piece by piece,
1.- There are no feminine characters that can “absorb” (tolerate?) IJ’s energy. My bet so far is that he will end up as a devoted father.
2.- Dove is a really funny character but she is an @ssh0l3. Sorry. She is playing with JWan and that is not good. Even worse if you consider that they have known each other since middle school. It is said that one of the worst things about becoming old is that you will be incapable to add friends that will eventually become old ones.
You don’t destroy good relations for fun, and she does not take him seriously.
There is a thing, I do not see a person JWan can end up with.
3.- Love the Bears. Min-Ah is so adorably quirky… she will end up percolating into his heart.
4.- Hope that JWon snaps out of it. He is, along SHwa the most evolved character. They complement each other and share the same goals… Maggot seems like the Eternal Mentee. TRhat is an issue that worries JWan’s overemotional friend Do Jae-Hak but at least he understands his limitations and puts an effort to work around them… unlike Maggot. Also Jae-Hak’s compassion and “gift of people” (older folks in my country says “don de gentes”) has started to rub possitively on JWan. I smiled like crazy when he said in this episode to the worried family members that everything went right. Way to go from the JWan season 1!.
BTW IJ is a great sidekick. He enhances DLL to almost poetic levels. Loved how he asked his Head of Department to scrub in a remote hospital… my bet is that he will change his Chief’s fate just by introducing him to an alternative. One of the things older folks I’ve met complains the most is that after they retire/childrens leave the nest they feel useless.
In general I love the state of our canoe. It is small but well designed and well built. Am I too malicious in waiting for WinterGardeners to discover they are aboard the unsinkable Titanic? XD .
Will read your comments now 😉
Hi @FGB, good to see you here!
Your comment reminded me about a thought I had about Do Jae Hak. What a lovely person he is! He passes by and sees a bedridden patient without visitors and just because they catch each others’ eyes, he smiles and befriends her through the glass door. How lonely she must be to not have anyone to see her (except a nun) or anyway to move. And Jae Hak, although so busy, finds out about her situation and tries to look in with a smile.
I liked how previously he was trying to rent a place where his wife could join him, because they’d not been used to being apart for long.
He’s the most affectionate among the bunch of residents (and maybe among all!!) and I’m glad he has rubbed off on JWan so nicely. Yes I noted how JWan now begins with the good news to give relief to the guardians, before saying anything else about the surgery, a tip he learnt from Jae Hak.
@FGB4877,
I want to hear your point of view. What if you were JWan, and you found out that your GF’s roommate (or dorm mate) was male, and she never told you. How would you react?
Mind you, she was going on a trip with him, and a couple of friends of his. When I first heard of the arrangements, I suspected right away that the “couple” meant GF & BF, and IkSun and her roommate would form the other couple. What were the odds that they were all single females, in their late 30s, going on an overnight, right? 😂
@BulmaGoku, JWon IS basically a Priest.
If you look at him he has a POVERTY VOW (I laughed like a hyena when Director Ju fabricated a situation where they basically delivered how selfless was JWon compared to his mercenary children, Rosa didn’t want Ju to talk about JWon and being a Priest, and then JWon demonstrated how poor he really was by telling her that he would sell the terrain she offered him and ask for a loan to make her a cute home. Rosa cursed him because ¿how was it possible for him being so poor while being a doctor? and we see Director Ju sarcastically smiling and giving JWon a finger heart… God he knows her pressure points XD . He made his point crystal clear while also trolling her). <– BTW That is a good script in all levels. The point came across regardless of culture or language and was delivered with a sardonic smile (by Director Ju). It was comedy gold while being totally relevant character and plot-wise.
He has a SERVICE VOW expressed by DLL. He decided to stay were he was needed the most instead of following his desire to become a Chatolic Priest, and that counts as an OBEDIENCE VOW.
He is letting slip his CHASTITY VOW, which is at the end of the day a good thing.
@packmule3, thank you for sharing this here. You are insightful as always and happy Independence Day to you.
For me SHwa rejected SH and she didn’t look back, she rejected ChilHong and she didn’t look back so when she rejected IkJun I knew she will not look back because she clearly knows what she wants. She is steadfast in her choice and I totally agree that SHwa is inspired by VB’s girlfriend.
Dear @PackMule3, I can answer as a man very quickly: I would HATE it with a vengeance. Please let me explain in detail and also please be free to moderate me if necessary.
Ladies know when a baby is hers. They feel it. They carry it inside and deliver after 36 weeks. We men really don’t know if a child is ours, that is why we stress fidelity so much. Commercial DNA tests are a thing from the last 25 years if memory serves well. The only thing we can do is trust and cross our fingers.
My girlfriend living two flimsy doors to another male???. For all I know they could be having a “fun time” in all their free time just sparing time to bath, go to the bathroom, eat and sleep… and sleepy “fun time” is utterly delicious.
And she also hide it from him. I would smell a rotten fish!!! DX .
On the other hand I have been also that trustworthy male friend. But the biggest difference is that I was that friend BEFORE the now husband of my friend even met her. Her now husband understood that if I didn’t try anything before, and even more if I did my best to mend things between them then, that helped them get together, then I was no menace, since I even ceased to do things like walking hand in hand with her from my own initiative in order to avoid gossips. So sometimes when he went out of town I slept on their couch because he knew I would take care of her and nothing would happen.
And of course, being the steadfast friend put me in an advantaged situation for all her female friends to decide they could date me 😉 . For a time it was a gold mine of good women to go out (I sincerely believe that a beautiful woman is a trophy but a good, reasonable one is a blessing). It was an unexpected but very welcome side effect 😉
But going back to your question, I would be jealous as hell if I were JWan. She did hid it and she sent back a symbol of compromise. She did not want for people to see a symbol of her being taken.
She would hit me as a person that wants to be single but also wants all the perks of being married. She is wasting JWan’s fidelity and even worse she is smearing onto his loyalty.
I heard a long time ago the grandparents of a friend the two advices they gave to their son when he was to marry:
Grandma: “If you want to behave like a single person while being married then do not marry”
Grandpa: “Never change good cook from home to eat sh!t in the street”
And as I said before, she has known him for at least 25 years. He is not someone she can replace easily.
Sometimes I have the feeling that IJ knows. He trolls him (and us) a lot with his supposed ignorance of the event. My clue is that he showed concern when JWan told him that he considered his relationship with Dove seriously. It strikes me that yes, IJ is having a boatload of fun by pretending not to know…
But more importantly, I think he wants to be isolated from a trainwreck he sees coming from several continents away. One he really can’t take a side because he loves them both.
To say she is a teaser is… benign DX .
Dear @GB, to say that I always enjoy your Posts is something you can check just by seeing how mindful I am of them =D .
That said, and speaking about the orphan lady with the lumbar vertebrae broken and the arterial wall separation… could I ship her to JWan instead of Dove?. She has no family, tried to lead a healthy lifestile (her accident found her riding a bike). Enter the dashing cardiosurgeon that will save her life, a good recovery from her back injury (sponsored by DLL) and we probably have a good lad to marry our favourite curmudgeon.
Because JWan is Loyalty, Responsibility, Selflessness and Honesty incarnate. The person that would take a bullet for you. I would find hard to get along with him in real life, but also would trust him with closed eyes.
@FGB4877 there’s a hint in the “next week” trailer that JWan and the orphan may connect. The last image is a view from the back of someone looking in the window to her room, and that someone’s back looks like JWan’s to me. His spindly neck is rather recognizable from all angles.
@Miracle23 and @BulmaGoku, JWon strikes me as a person that was tainted by his mother’s selfishness. He learned very early on to hide his true intentions to avoid Rosa deflating them. He comes from two extremes, and Rosa is unbalanced as hell, also very aggressive. Do you remember in Season 1 when she and Director Ju are trying to take a selfie with Go Ara and she snatches Director Ju’s phone?. You could see in Go Ara’s face that this gesture was so rude she felt Rosa was slapping her (Rosa almost did).
SHwa is the steady, centered person he needs since she knows herself and knows him. The drinking scene with his brother in episode 1 or 2 shows me a person that falls prey of his own feelings and lacks in perspective. Sometimes I think his friends know JWon more than he does himself…
Maggot is the selfish, out of place, unconfortable and odd person that while competent in her work that’s it for her. She is a Mary Sue that fulfills a lot of viewers rescue fantasy.
JWon is the rich, handsome, capable, sensitive, selfless and dashing man they would love to marry and Maggot represents them as the odd cinderella that magically wins the heart of Prince Charming. But as usual in real life, once attraction ends you are left with a flawed person… and if her flaws are unsurmountable, he had not learnt to love those flaws or there is nothing going on for that person from the beginning (Maggot does not work to change, she just wants the correct answers) then it is game over.
Please moderate or move me if you need so, @PackMule3. I know this Post is really harsh and could be taken personally very easily.
@FGB4877,
I say let it rip! I’m not going to moderate you. 😂
I told you remember that I found Rosa aggressive. Remember that Mafia game when she smashed Director Ju’s paper cup on his face while he was drinking?
I’m sure 99.99 percent of viewers found that slapstick funny. I didn’t. I was appalled. I thought she was a psycho. Look: if a guy did that to a girl, we’d be up in arms. So why should I find it comical when Rosa did to her childhood friend of 50 something years? Because she’s Rosa and her character is played by a respected thespian? 🙄
But yeaaah, I get it. I have to make cultural allowances. But I tagged Rosa as hot-tempered with aggressive tendencies when thwarted or frustrated.
@GB, yes, I understand why people are not getting PG. His POV is withheld. There’s nothing much to work on to better understand him, while the others were given more perspectives. I will let him experience life in his own time. Yes, fangirl is just an experiment. He will realise it sooner or later that she is demanding and selfish, only think about herself. He needs to experience failure to bounce back stronger than ever. The time will come. 🙂 Didn’t Jwan go in and out of relationships within months? This is one very committed guy, a family guy searching for the right one to settle down. And we knew he is quite the touchy BF style too. Perhaps it is true that Jwan x PG have swapped body. lol the meta hahahahahaha
@FGB4877, thank you for your insight. I am nodding and grinning when I read them. It’s always nice to read a different view from a male counterparts. 😉
@PackMule3. I hated that moment too. It was mistreatment. Hell, I wouldn’t do that to anybody. And also a liquid being pushed near his respiratory tract could be very dangerous. Rosa could have seriously hurt him, even kill him.
But even in my Latin American culture what Rosa did to Go Ara was totally alienating. It was so gratuituous, dangerous, out-of-thin-air, inconsiderate that I would not want to see that person again. There is also the issue that they could get a photo with Go Ara because all of them knew IJ. Rosa made IJ lose “face” in front of Go Ara.
Were we supposed to laugh???
And coming from a Senior in a society were seniors are respected because they are supposed to be wise…
I would avoid Rosa at all cost. Our friends in this forum slander JWon as PaBo, but when you think that such a random, aggressive, conniving (her manipulation of Maggot was for me her using Maggot’s weakness for her own advantage), miserable (using someone’s infatuation is really low), boisterous… then you get why all her children abandoned her and got their habits. The only one that tolerates her is JWon, and Director Ju. But JWon learned to hide a big part of him. He did that so good that he doesn’t seem to recognize that part of him.
JWon deserves a lot of credit when you consider that, like Buddha, he is a (relatively) pristine flower stemming from the mud that is Rosa.
Hell, he deserves a lot of credit in general. But knowing he comes from such a (monster) mother makes me want to build a pedestal and put him besides José Gregorio Hernández (a Catholic Blessed who was a MD Doctor here in Venezuela). BTW the correct word is “Beato” which is the step between “venerable” and “Saint” just if it is not the right term.
@Welmaris, it would be nice, but my main point is that JWan is in the losing end of a toxic relationsip. A big problem about them is that such destructive relationships even turn our best virtues against ourselves. They are horribly painful because they even destroy our sense of selves since there is no refuge, even our best behaviour and brightest parts become suspects: “was I good/nice/understanding enough?, what could I have done differently?”. The absolute answer is that all of us generally do what we think is the best given our knowledge and circumstances.
Personally I enjoy the humour and the ship wars in this show, but mainly for all the principles and values in the script. Why?, because I am convinced that we do the very best due to the information we have at every moment. But what if we could see more into the situations in front of us?… then probably we would take a different approach and get a better result.
That is why knowledge is power. That is what I seek with this Hobby (BTW thank you all for being my companions and completing me!!! =D )
Back to this Drama, that is why I want JWan to move out quickly and for someone that values him. If Dove cannot value him for who he is when she has the magical opportunity to date someone that knows her not only intensively but also extensively (over 25 ears!!!)… then he could do better.
And she deserves to be alone, or worse: with someone as lacking as her.
Poor IJ watching a delayed trainwreck between his sister and one of his best friends. He is right in the middle and all he can do is to know the less possible for him not to be involved by any side =C . I see him splattered in these two’s rift.
My dear @pkml3, I trust that you’re having or starting a lovely 4th of July. We missed you on the Healer thread yesterday. Take care!
Good morning, and happy happy 4th of July @PML3 and to my fellow Americans
@FGB thank you, your comment starts to make JWon’s action a bit redeemable. That Priest quality that you mentioned is exactly why we love him so much in S1. And yes I agree 100% with you that he is the embodiment of devoted Catholic Priest.
What bothers me is the fact that he is letting slip his Chastity vow by jumping into a relationship without a second thought and kissing the girl who asked him to choose her instead of God. That’s what we tried to understand. What are the odds ? And not to mention the lies.
I don’t know anything about priesthood, so I see it from simple human observation, As a long time priest wannabe, shouldn’t he wait a bit ? You know, like a soldier who was just relieved from his duty? 😀 Or maybe it is my FG bias that made me questioned his action.
I want to have a reasonable explanation of his character development which I haven’t got so far. And as @Miracle23 mentioned, we don’t have enough Jwon’s POV.
For now, I will hold on to your point by thinking that maybe that’s the result of being a son of Rosa. But I need more background to appreciate him again.
About JWan. I agree, he is in Toxic Relationship. He should get out from it as soon as possible if he doesn’t want to get hurt, badly. Jwan deserves better. His interaction with Jae-Hak is always scene stealer. I prefer him to be with Jae-Hak instead of spending his energy with a selfish girl who doesn’t bother at all with his devotion to her.
@FGB, Many thanks for your consideration and warmth, I gain insight and joy when reading your thoughts.
What a lovely idea that JWan may find a new love interest in the poor likely quadraplegic patient. It will be a challenge, but not impossible, if he and IS break up.
It’s interesting that you find “… JWan is Loyalty, Responsibility, Selflessness and Honesty incarnate.” High praise indeed! We now only need to find out what happened with him in Hawaii, that JW was able to blackmail him over!!
Ep4/5 is the time when Dr Bae from ER enters as a foil to Maggot. Bae did everything right and Maggot was lacking when it came to the abusive dad case. I wonder if that’s why she’s introduced in S2? It seems too coincidental that she was the one who grabbed PaBo’s arm and asked for coffee. And she’s pretty too. Just like Dr Bae was. 😂.
O Happy 4th July for all our American friends! 🇺🇸🎉
Happy 4th of July for our fellow Americans here in BoD!
Thank you @miracle23 @FGB and others for elaborating PG’s character. I agree that the lack of his POV is challenging us to rationalize his choices at times. Especially the sudden switch from wanting to be a priest into a teenage boy with puppy love.
I am also confused with how pushy and agressive mama rosa can be. I think even though she is close with PG, they don’t really open up about what PG wants and loves… just like DLL that is close to his heart. In s1 she never wanted to hear about his priest dream.
@FGB @GB when i first saw bidulgi couple i like them because we get a little bit more background about Iksun’s trauma and how she opened up with Junwan. But after that package accident i agree that Junwan deserves better. I don’t know if the writer will pair them together as endgame, or the orphan will get closer with Junwan but for now i can say Junwan DEFINITELY DESERVES BETTER😭😭my heart is hurting for him. I hope he gets the support he needs for future eps.
Thanks Packmuke3!
Songhwa’s choice has always been JWon. Don’t know why others think it is anyone else.
Absolutely agree she has tried to tell JWon with her actions and words that he is the one she likes. Wonder if she will wait until WG break up to be even more direct because he doesn’t seem to get it.
Really think ShinLee are milking the IK-Song and WG relationships for the fangirls. So many official BTS clips this time around, feel like they are feeding the public what they want for viewership ratings.
Early on I stopped watching those (thanks for sharing about that) and am trying to focus on the story itself.
Sorry I meant PackMule3!
Also agree with the others that JWan and Iksong and in deep waters. Relationships are built on trust, and if she cannot be truthful to him I hope he breaks up with her before he gets hurt even more.
From the previews it looks like that might be what he plans to do, and as a result, he will suffer for a bit.
Thanks @Welmaris for your insightful comments. Like you and others have said, the train passing when WG kiss symbolize that the WG relationship is fleeting, or will pass soon. All the professors and other hospital staff think WG is unimaginable.
As much as I like Minha, I hope she and SH don’t get together until she finishes her residency since it’s not appropriate…
Nrllee, I also wonder if the new fellow will come between WG. Is the JWon character so weak now he’ll take any girl who throws herself at him now? Really hope they show more character development for him because he seems like a different person in S2.
@FGB4877 I agree 100% with what you said about Dove. I don’t think she’s as invested in the relationship as Junwan is. He is head over heals for her, but I don’t feel that she is for him. He deserves someone who is just as crazy about him as he is for her. I also agree with what you said about JW. I’m getting tired with his relationship with Jang. I do think problems will arise because they do not gel well together; the end otp is JW and Songhwa. JW and Jang are uncomfortable to watch though. I look forward to see what ShinLee have in store for us.
Kalimera everyone!
Happy 4th of July to all those who celebrate it!
Thank you @Packmule3 for writing this post!
I agree with your train of thought! I felt the same!
@FGB4877 I agree 100% with what you said about Dove. I always felt that Junwan is more invested in the relationship than Iksun is. She seems to have cold feet regarding fully committing, and they seem to be in different places in life. Junwan is head over heals, and he deserves someone who is just as crazy about him as he for her. Regarding JW, I think his relationship with Jang is meant as a time of maturation for him. He has never been in a relationship, and I think he is learning.
I’m sorry, my comment refers to much earlier posts :-“> but thank you to @Letta and everyone for the meta Oliver discussions, and to @GB for the lovely YouTube link showing Mido singing! <3 Two seasons in, and I guess I'm still amazed at how great a singer she is. I know we get to witness her talent in the HP-realm through the OST and Mido and Falasol. Still is funny (and a bit of a waste, tbh) that SHwa the doctor is an awful singer lol.
Hello, I’m sorry for commenting so late on this thread. Many thanks to all the previous posters for insightful comments.
Thank you @packmule3 for this post. It’s so on point, as always, I like especially the focus on female lead’s agency, that it’s all about Songhwa’s choice and her conscious, well thought decisions.
@Letta thank you for the Maybe Happy Ending reference I’m not familiar with Lee/Shin previous works but what I gather from the previous disussions on BOD is that this kind of intertextuality would be just in sync with their method. We all came to the same conclusion that the WG is just to robotic and to tropey. So maybe this is also some kind of a meta level in the story. Not only are the characters supposed to realise themselves that this relationship wont’ work but also the viewers, even the WGers, as well. And from Wgers reactions to WG’s scenes we can assume it’s working.
My take on the cafe scene is not different. I strongly believe it’s a red herring. When Songhwa was listening to VB’s story and reflecting on her feelings the viewers got to see IJ joking around as always. And of course this could be another trope when the female lead realises her true feelings and her earlier mistake of rejecting the man of her life. But, but:
1. we know that this duo doesn’t rely on the common tropes and would rather establish their own patterns to convey their message,
2. as I wrote earlier trying to console some of the posters disheartened by this scene – what we (and Songhwa) saw during this supposed realisation moment was narratively just too absurd. IJ is famous for his acting, and some of the were more silly than others, but seriously are we supposed to believe that Songhwa had this realisation and saw THE MAN OF HER LIFE in a guy sticking a drinking straw into his nostril? I totally agree it just doesn’t make any sense.
And lastly, as many of you I also think ep3 was much IJ centered. He was shown as a very good specialist and caring doctor towards his patients. Also somebody who would always put his patients life and health above all else (even above some quality time with his son). He can be very petty on everyday basis but when it comes to peoples life and health he always wants to help and doesn’t care about some previous rivalry with a fellow student, now fellow doctor.
So summing this up I would say that ep3 confirmed the status quo for this character:
1. very professional and caring doctor,
2. a loving father that is trying hard to spent time with his son (although as we see it doesn’t work sometimes),
3. but NOT THE RIGHT MAN for Songhwa – neither objectively or considering her own choice or even narratively (he was shown many times as a third weel in FG scenes).
So I’m waiting now for some kind of a breakthrough.
Dear Friends, there is a thing… we men are SUPPOSED to know when a girl likes us from very flimsy things that can be plausibly denied at the drop of a hat.
And JWon is not used to think himself as a great catch. A funny thing is that we humans tend to think that everyone is more or less like us and we are normal. We men only get “clues” that sometimes ladies wants us to interpret and to be honest a lot of them flies under our radar. And no, we are not dumb, we are just wired differently and for us praise is unusual.
Maggot was the very first person to tell him unequivocally and unmistakably that she liked him in a way that she could not take back. Kudos to her character for being so brave, ladies are usually not upfront about their feelings and wants us to “read their minds”.
You may believe it or not, but there must be millions upon millions of couples that would have been fantastic if they got together, but that moment of sincerity never came. Or the girl said “no” hoping we “step up” our game but finding afterwards that we respected their “no” so much that the opportunity evaporated… Oh regrets!!!.
That is why I respect that part of Maggot that put herself over and over again in a bad place (and rejection hurts!!! – someone is basically telling you that passing his/her genes along yours is a hard pass, it is almost erasing you and your legacy from the Tree of Life). That is why I liked so much the coffee conversation between SHwa and the Pharmacy Chaebol. His friend took a chance on him and it paid!!! =D .
SHwa has always been indirect and subtle while JWon has always been consistent and steadfast about her. SHwa needs to step-up her game like Maggot did. That is also why I liked SHwa’s “I Like YOU” so much.
@FGB4877 I think this is an interesting point you’re making. Maybe this is what it is about. As the OST says The REAL confession is not flashy. So maybe JW’s growth is supposed to see those unflashy but true confessions of Songhwa (she made two up till now) bc right now he only could see and act on the flashy one.
I’m sorry for joining this thread so abruptly without saying any thanks but I made several attempts of posting my general take on this red herring thing and refering to the prevoius comments but I couldn’t see it getting through. So I just tried to comment on a new post and it worked.
BTW, Happy 4th of July for all our American Friends!!! =D
I’m late to read this post because I just have a little time for open the website. Thank you @packmule3 for this post always amazing with your interpretation
Also, thank you @Letta for sharing your finding at Oliver top that JWon’s wear and the connection with Maybe Happy Ending musical. I love Mido’s voice and performance in Maybe Happy Ending musical even I don’t know the meaning…
Happy 4th of July for FG American friends <3
@letta your finding on the oliver easter egg is remarkable!!!
@hatlady yup i agree, i think SH won’t start anything until after she finished her residency. But for now i am enjoying the slow burn and how they open up to each other❤️ It is much deeper than all WGs moment combined
@FGB yup i agree with how songhwa needs to step up her game. I have a theory that the reason nothing happened before was because of PG’s dream as a priest. Just like how she told PG never mind when they talked, i think she respected him so much to asked him to stay.
While i agree that Jang’s bravery is there, i still don’t like the words she choose. If she said something more soft that doesn’t offend or belittle his religion, it won’t bother me as much.
But to have the audacity of asking him to choose to be beside her and not God… oh wow.
This also connects to the moment they hold hands. at first we can’t see his rosary, but then we can… i think this is a reminder to the viewers that their relationship wasn’t built by sincere feelings, but selfishness from Jang’s confession to ask him to choose her.
@Sasa13, I have noticed that in all the closeup views we’ve had of JW being physical with Jang, his wrist rosary has been prominently displayed. With as carefully blocked as these scenes must be, that can’t be a coincidence.
I’m on my phone to type this comment, and can’t paste a link, so I encourage those reading this comment to look online for information on blocking in film.
On SHwa’s “no means no” — I was just watching HP clips and came across the scene in Episode 1 of Season 1. This was where SH said he wanted them to form a band as a condition for him to work in the VIP wards, and SHWa and JWan refused. JWon was only worried about SHwa (not JWan), because, as JWon said, when SHwa says no, she means it.
So yeah, this is indeed consistent with SHWa’s character. I agree with everyone that SHwa is an intelligent, mature, and self-assured woman, already in her 40s. Her decisions are carefully thought out, and in the case of IJ’s proposal, I don’t think she is the type to say no on a matter as important and sensitive as this when she really meant an inflexible yes.
Good one there @pandamilktea, it has been established from day one that Shwa is very much strict about her NO(s). Only Ikjun is the one being shown to ignore this (re. Biopsy in Ep. 6) while the other guys understand this part of Shwa and gave her the space she needed. That shows a lot in how the other boys respect Shwa, and not so much for Ikjun because what is important to him is what he thinks and wants.😑
@welmaris nice catch! At the moment i just thought it’s a constant reminder of how selfish she is asking him to choose her, or to remind us how PG lose himself in a way, when he’s with her. Looking to hear other interpretation on this as well!
@pandamilktea @miracle23 i agree with what you two says.in the moment Songhwa told everyone about the biopsy, everyone made an initiative to butt in. seokhyung and jeongwon wanted to get the result early, while junwan wanted to come with her. When she said no, they all immediately stop. So i agree everyone that Ikjun is the only one who didn’t respect her no.
I saw someone on twitter pointing out she didn’t say NO. She just asked him not to confess, but i think it is still the same. I mean, it was obvious she’s not interested and uncomfortable, yet at the same time she still wanted to be friends. So that’s the strictest yet softest way for her to rip the bandage.
@pandamilktea good catch, also in S2E2, it was JWon that said how resolute SHwa was once she was put in charge of something. Two inherent character traits that the writer has got JWon to mention (and no one else), which may be THE contributing factor to her romance arc on the show. It is no coincidence IMO. People may choose to ignore or twist it, but the script is VERY clear – her no is a no and she goes head first behind what she wants. THAT is who she is, not what Ik/Song shippers make her out to be.
@Welmaris Thanks for the reference! I couldn’t agree more. They show us what they really want, hence we really don’t know what JW was thinking. He remains a mistery of sorts.
However, nothing is what it seems…maybe that’s why there is a 30% discount in the new optician’s shop at Yulje!! 8)
@Sasa13, I see your point. Even before knowing about DLL, Shwa had deep respect for JW. If JW was indeed his first love, she would have been devasted back in 99 to know about his dream to became a priest. Thus, her holding back her feelings out of respect at that time, same as we saw in ep.10.
@FGB4877,
It is interesting how you mentioned that Jwon is likely unaware he may be considered a “catch”, even just at the hospital. This makes sense as, from what little psychology that I am aware of, it seems that people who are excessively giving tend to have poor self-esteem and a sense of self. They are often negligent of their own needs and desires & are essentially people-pleasers, no matter how noble their cause may be. There must be a balance (as you see in someone like Shwa, who is acutely aware of what she wants and how to make herself happy). It is because Jwon is lacking that balance that he has blindly entered into his relationship with Gyeoul. He has no idea what he wants – he isn’t used to thinking about that. I reckon his choice to stay at Yulje was likely one of the few times he actually aligned with with his true self. Even his initial decision to become a doctor, correct if I’m wrong but iirc, was because his siblings pushed him into it, telling him he would like it.
I agree his relationship with his mother has influenced him greatly. She has an extremely dominant personality, to the point where she has few close acquaintances left at this age, as you have pointed out. In order to preserve their relationship and – more importantly – to keep her happy, Jwon is accustomed to sacrificing his own needs. This has unfortunately bled into other areas of his life, much to Rosa’s dismay, as we see.
This was mentioned in many posts ago (about one of their dinners iirc) but it links to his perception of his relationship with Shwa too. I think part of the reason he never pursued her is simply because he doesn’t think that it is possible she would actually think of him that way. He feels she prefers the other boys’ company (currently, Ikjun) over his. It bothers him, but in some ways he doesn’t question it anymore (unlike Rosa, from last season). He’s “settled” for his relationship with Gyeoul because he doesn’t think he can do better.
It’s never been touched on in the show directly, but his level of selflessness can be unhealthy. As has been mentioned by others, he is selfless not only to his own detriment but to the detriment of others (his friend group). As a small example, the fact that he has no intention of saving up for himself begs the question – what will he do when he has kids of his own? He believes he doesn’t need anything for himself, including material wealth, not realizing that fulfillment of his own desires can also make other happy simultaneously (e.g. his decision to stay back as a doctor instead of a priest). Because he is neglecting a very human part of himself, i.e. his personal fulfillment, he seems like he is disconnected from reality.
This is just to add on to your comment(s), of course. Thank you for sharing your insightful commentary, as I believe we are all lacking in understanding his POV currently.
Dear @Noodles, JWon is in some ways damaged goods. People don’t notice it since he is so selfless when they are used to think that a damaged person is selfish, arrogant, hard to please, etc. But the big roadblock that does not let him interact with people in a win-win (or give and take) way, lets him enjoy the rightful fruits of his work nor fulfill his own dreams is there.
His mother psychologically castrated him.
He is a lovely character and I love what he represents, but he must find a balance between his own dreams and the greater good.
Loved your Post, it completes mine 🙂 .
@Noodles @FGB4877 your discussion here is gold. Combined with @Welmaris’ in the other thread, Now I can have a better picture on how to understand JWon’s character. I will keep this discussion in mind and not to hold a grudge against JWon anymore, except if he ends up with Maggot (please NO) …ehehehehe.
Thank you FGers !
Sigh… he is lovable, almost perfect at one setting… yet like human, he is proned to make mistake and it hurts to see him going down that path. But this is how he will learn and bounce back to better understand himself and give himself a chance to open up and really be happy. He deserves it just like anybody else. Thank you FGB4877 and noodles for your very insightful thoughts.
@BulmaGoku, @Miracle23, @Noodle, he saves everyone else by starving himself. That is not healthy. Maggot on the other hand is more selfish (chocopie in season 1). It could go in two ways:
1.- Maggot exploits him, he feels used and breaks up with Maggot.
2.- He and Maggot have a heart-to-heart where she reveals that she is as selfish for X reason and she recommends him to have his own personal world to fill with whatever he likes. It makes him think that he has been living for others and the greater good but… what does JWon need and want?. Then I would feel satisfied with Maggot, since she would have been an agent of change for JWon.
Come to think (and this is a great point against WinterGardeners), we have seen SHwa camping, we see the friends playing, SH watching Journey to the West, IJ making dance steps and spending time with U-Ju, JWon forfeiting a race due to an emergency, JWan golfing and forfeiting golf due to an emergency… but with the exception of Maggot description where we learn (not even in a voiceover – but with some measly paragraphs in the character description OUT OF THE ACTUAL SHOW) that she is a sprint runner… nothing, NADA. We see her fighting in a car with a young man and after that we learn that he is her brother who sells luxury cars. Maybe that her wardrobe is so limited that people can guess the seasons because she starts to use another particular piece of cloth. Ah, and that she is a big eater.
Hell, MinAh that belongs to a secondary ship is way more fleshed out: she has a perk for unconventional makeup, she had a crisis for overworking, cares and fights for her patients (she was yelling to the father and grandmother baby this 3rd episode!), is compassionate (she paid a lot of attention about how a simple change of doctors produced such a vastly different prognosis and treatment), and also that she is an adorable goofball: her solo date on Christmas was funny and significant character-wise, since she does not let herself to fall into disheart easily. She is also interested in becoming hoow to be ta better doctor not only from a technical point of view but more importantly what mindset creates a great doctor.
Food for thought indeed 😉
@Miracle23 I really like your take on the not so perfect JW. And the other characters in the series, thought calling him a Buddha and seing his best qualities, could also see some of his not so perfect sides. Only Jang idolized him without any reservation, like a true fangirl, and in the end of ep12 even a saseng I would say. Her gossip sessions with dr Bong reminded me of MYSELF checking the Soompi site for some celebrity news LOL
@FGB4877 I agree with you that Minha character is so much more fleshed out in this show. She is a fictional character but she appears as a real person, while Jang is so cartoonish to me that I’m having a really hard time trying to connect with her at any level. All we know aout her is superficial in the same manner as her relationship with JW.
Btw thank you for reminding us about her being a sprint runner. That is an indication of a short distance and quick speed – which would symbolize the WG. And how many times were we reminded of the idea of marathon in the last eps? Jang is not a marathon runner.
@Linnea, I thought the same while I was typing it 😉 . But I am personally watching this show considering the characters as persons, I am not watching it as a script being played (like that side of it from a literary point of view and to try to understand the writer’s philosophy, dear @WE). Why?, because I am more interested in this show’s life lessons. I think that if all the principles and values shown serves as a blueprint on how to read events in our day-to-day dealings then we could respond better, or to be exact, more wisely. That is, I watch this show to try to become wiser, a better person.
I love the ship wars as a fun competition, but I don’t let them derail me from what is the marrow of the show =D .
Did anyone here mention why everyone keeps telling IJ that his jokes are “lame”? It’s because it’s like “dad jokes”. And they are notably “lame”. Another clue there that IJ is going to stay single and return to his “little universe” UJu.
@BulmaGoku, @Miracle23, I’m delighted to chip in!
@FGB4877,
I am also in agreement with you about Jwan and his relationship with Iksun.
To add onto your points, I think brushing over Iksun’s lack of desire to get married is a mistake. Not to mention her potential lack of desire in having kids as well. Remember her comment on how she felt sorry for her brother to have to dedicate so much of his time to his kid? It is common in our society (particularly Asian ones) to assume that a woman who doesn’t want to have kids will “come around” eventually. But this is an overgeneralization. And to me, Iksun seems particularly career-oriented. In fact, she didn’t perceive herself to be the marriage type even before the fiasco with her ex-boyfriend. So to pair her up with someone who clearly does want to get married and have kids, is to inevitably ask her to compromise greatly on her own goals in life. This could be why she returned the package and lied about her male friend. Perhaps she wants to keep Jwan because she likes being in a relationship with him, but isn’t willing to go all the way. She isn’t being honest with him and she isn’t being honest with herself. This is a problem and I hope the show addresses it.
I too would be interested in seeing Jwan with the bedridden orphan. As someone who never had a family, she is more likely to want to get married and start a family of her own. Jwan may realize he does not want to compromise on marriage and having kids. That is what I’d bet on being the deciding factor if he were to end the relationship, though I could very well be proven wrong in the next few episodes.
In IkSun’s defense, she did clearly say more than once to JWan that she was not interested in marriage and having children. It is possible for career military personnel to have a family if their spouse and children can adjust when necessary, so IkSun’s reticence about marriage is more a personal choice. JWan convinced IkSun (and himself) to stay in their relationship by saying he wanted to be with her long-term despite his wanting to marry and have children. JWan may need to come to terms with his true feelings, not what he’s forcing himself to accept for her benefit.
Yes, she didn’t want to have marriage and children. I sounded the alarm in my Notes for Ep 1 that her “return to sender” might be intentional, and not accidental, as viewers assumed.
However, that’s NOT a defense against lying by omission. Her nondisclosure and her misleading statements were intentional and deceitful.
And that makes her a jerk. If she were male, viewers would be calling her out. But because she’s female, viewers are still making allowances for her semblance of impropriety and hoping that this would clear out in an episode or two.
For me, her story could be written off or rehabilitated or reconfigured. I don’t care. 🙂 Her character is a plot device for JWan to grow, and if JWan finds another partner from the already existing list of characters, that’s fine with me.
I don’t know why, but I’m not worried about the Bidulgi couple so much. The cliffhanger in the end looks like a minor hiccup. Do they have problems in their relationship? Sure. All par for the course in any LDR. The shock value in JWan finding out that IkSun’s roommate is male, I don’t think, will threaten their relationship as much as we’re making it out to be – remember that JWan himself said in S1 to SHwa’s ex-bf, Prof. Jang, that the latter was “old-fashioned” to think that a man and a woman can’t be best friends. If he overreacts in IS’s case *without giving her a chance to explain herself* then that would be hypocritical on his part. From the preview, I do think that he is going to give her a chance to tell him her side of the story and then they clear things out between themselves. They seem to be the SunBora couple of the series – temp break but reconcile in the end, stronger than ever.
They have their differences, but I feel like they have it in themselves to give the other enough space to work through their issues and then they’d be in sync. We did hear IS say that she was turning 40 soon, so who knows, maybe her priorities will change, which may lead her to relinquish her insecurities regarding her past relationships? I mean, if they weather this LDR then it is more than enough evidence to show her that she’s struck gold. JWan has also grown leaps and bounds since he met her, so her presence in his life can also not be diminished.
@Dashman1010,
I don’t think being best friends with a guy is the issue raised by the writer.
For one, SeokBin the neuro resident was called out by the twins for thinking that a man and woman can’t be best friends. For another, we FG believe that Songhwa’s relationship with IkJun is a great example of friendship between man and woman (until he tried to move out of the friend zone).
So, I doubt the writer would make JWan be the bad guy at this late stage of the story.
I think the issue here is IkSun’s lies and deception. JWan is well within his rights to react negatively to IkSun’s nondisclosure of her relationship with her roommate. If she had informed up front that her roommate was male, and Jwan raised a big stink, then yes, it would be right to call him out as hypocritical, sexist, old-fashioned, and controlling.
But here, Iksun was the one who misled him. She wasn’t transparent from the beginning. She lied by omission. She was the one who didn’t TRUST him to handle the truth. Of course, he’d suspect her of cheating on him. Of course, he’d doubt if she ever loved him. He ain’t stupid.
If their relationship breaks up, then it’s on her. She’s the one to blame bec she lied, and blindsided Jwan.
Honesty and trust are fundamental in an LDR. And Iksun broke the two.
This is different from SunBora because neither of them lied in their relationship. In fact, Bora was honest to the point of being brutal.
On seeing all of your comments I have a feeling that Jae hak’s personal life has influence on Jwan.The reason behind change in Jwan’s attitude is partly Jae hak . We have seen Jae hak as a loving and caring husband .In epi 2 it’s shown that he doesn’t want his wife to stay far and taking loan to rent an apartment nearby.Im not sure if there will be new loveline with bedridden girl but this girl is introduced to Jwan by Jae hak only.
@dashman1010, I have the same thoughts as you, and commented similar SunBora observations in the Housekeeping thread. 🙂
Do I think IS intentionally kept from JWan the gender of her UK friend? Yes. Do I think IS intentionally returned the package? Actually, also yes. (Back in Season 1, I was surprised when she said she did not. I was expecting that with her type of personality she would be more upfront in telling she JWan she wasn’t ready for a more serious relationship. )
Do I think these are irredeemable flaws? In the context of the show, no. Because I think they are like SunBora, and even Bora realized her mistake when she broke up with Sun Woo, and she learned her lesson, and she “earned” back Sun Woo’s love by doing/saying all she did/said during their 1994 date.
So I think all these relationship problems are written in to give their characters the opportunity to grow, but I don’t think their flaws and mistakes are intended to be deal breakers.
I thought it was a trust issue for Dove couple? Yes I know IS had some bad trust issues with men because of her previous bf. Still, trust works both ways? If she opts to be dishonest and conveniently “forgets” to inform her bf that her best friend in UK (?) is male, she’s not thinking about him is she? Or giving him any assurance that she is to be be trusted? How he would have thoughts swimming through his head about possibilities of cheating? She’s in a foreign country, away from family and friends, away from structures of security, all too easy to gravitate to the familiar (in this case a Korean man). Using her old cheating bf as a benchmark for all men hereafter is her undoing.
So I agree with @packmule3. IS and her laissez-faire treatment of the trust that a relationship is built on isn’t winning her any fans. Dishonesty and lies (even if well intentioned) destroy relationships. The WG dynamic is built on lies. Lies to each other, lies to the public. It won’t take much to topple. Conversely Bear couple have been brutally honest with each other. To the point of being totally exposed and vulnerable. That’s a bond that has depth and good foundations. It’s likely to go the distance.
But I also agree with @pandamilktea that this writer doesn’t like dragging out problems too much. Apart from the end game couple 😂. She is likely to deal with it by the end of Ep4. I don’t think JunWan will suddenly fall in love with the quadriplegic (?) girl. But I do think that seeing her that way would cause him to worry about IS and the possibility that she could end up like that. See what IS’s refusal to be totally truthful does? It seeds doubt in her loved ones. Not just in the relationship but also with her current state of health. Running through the back of your mind is always the thought, “what else hasn’t she told me because she doesn’t want me to worry?”. 🙄
I always thought SunWoo and Bora were like FG. 😂. Up until PaBo JWon appeared. SW was my favourite character in R88. Upright, loved his little sister, manned up when his father passed, loved his mom (he ate all the omelettes she made in spite of the eggshells without once complaining to her 👏🥰 – that’s when I knew he was a keeper.). Bora was a lot more vicious (but she was kind where it counted underneath that brusque appearance) than SHwa but they had the same drive. SW was the only one who saw her for who she really was. Kind inside that prickly exterior (she’s a lot like what JunWan was in S1).
I think this time around they mixed up characteristics of pairings in previous Reply series to the pairings in HP. So we ended seeing similarities on one pairing that comes from a few pairings from the older series. FG have that some elements from characteristic of taek x deoksun, Trash x Najung, Yoon Jae x Siwon, SW x Bora. They seems to be the definite endgame because they mainly emulate the main pairings’ criteria and most of their personality traits, stories. We’ll see.😊
I agree @miracle23. Variations on a theme. Like different arrangements for musical pieces.
@pm3 @nrllee all good points. IS has definitely made her fair share of mistakes. But JWan isn’t a saint here either. I don’t want the writer to paint him as the bad guy. He’s been completely invested in her so far, and I acknowledge how sincere and dedicated he is in this relationship. However, like I said before, IS was straightforward with him way before she left for the UK in that she’d told him that she didn’t want any jewellery from him as gifts, yet he went ahead and sent the couple rings without asking her if she now felt differently. Not justifying her lying by omission, which is a red flag in itself, but I can’t condone what JWan did either. We have elaborate discussions about women and consent when it comes to SHwa, why should I look at IS/JWan any differently? Look, IS already has trust issues, JWan is no stranger to that fact. He needs to be incredibly careful how he treads waters – did his action (of sending the ring) throw her off guard from trusting him with other details of her life in the UK? Maybe. We have been shown the good parts of their relationship, with a few serious dialogues thrown in. And it may all come simmering to the surface in Ep. 4. I like that, it will show me if this couple can talk to things that really matter in a longterm relationship.
About @nrllee saying that IS is alone in the UK now and can do what she wants – she has been in the military all her life. It’s a plausible assumption that she has been alone all that time. She could have strayed even then – living alone gives you the same privileges regardless of whether you are 10 miles away from your loved ones or 10,000 miles. Her mind is by now trained to handle loneliness, so I don’t buy the cheating dimension. If she does cheat, then alright, I will stand corrected, but attributing that to distance doesn’t feel right to me at the moment. If they break up, then they BOTH are at fault, takes two to tango and all that. JWan has been fairly passive in his approach to the relationship. He has vowed that he will wait for her and all he wants is to be with her for life, and this was when she gave him an out. So, bottom line is that, with LDR, both are now being selfish and self-preservatory. I am expecting that to change in the next episode – JWan needs to decide whether he is willing to give IS the space and respect she is asking for and IS has some cold hard truths to face, like lying to her boyfriend + opening up to him.
Lastly, they are still dating in secrecy – what’s up with that? When are they going to have “the talk” about letting their family in on their love story? That is the biggest red flag for me at the moment – it leaves a lot of confusion in my mind regarding their future plans.
@dashman1010,
I actually forgot that Iksun told him she doesn’t like receiving jewelry as gifts. I also remember finding it odd he wanted to send the couple rings – while he seems ready for a long-term commitment, I don’t ever remember learning that Iksun was feeling the same way. From what we learned form Chihong, she is still recovering from her previous relationship.
I get the feeling she wants to take things slow as she has just gotten back into the dating scene, while Jwan is looking for a serious commitment (seeing as how is trying harder with both his relationship with herand even his ex-gf despite being a known playboy prior). To me, they are at different stages in their life. So I think this is something they need to be honest with each other about. As @Welmaris has mentioned, Jwan needs to actually come to terms with Iksun’s reluctance towards any type of long-term commitment and whether he is truly okay with it.
@dashman1010
Just a little note on the rings being sent to IS… I was under the impression that after Jae Hak advised JWan to ask her first, he did. We were not shown the scene with him asking, but we do see him telling her about the package. Therefore I was under the impression that she had agreed to receiving the rings. That’s why she didn’t have to open the package. It was returned unopened, because she knew what was inside, and she pointedly rejected the gift which would have been a sign of commitment and fidelity. Then she lied that it had been sent back but not by her.
About the secrecy of their dating. JHwan had wanted to tell IJ on more than one occasion. I felt that he should have just spat it out rather than wait for IJ to be willing to give him even 10 minutes. We however did not hear if IS wanted to tell IJ or not.
However it is definitely a red flat that after months of dating, the families and JHwan’s closest friends, have not been given this piece of ‘good news’. Good news is meant to be shared. But this piece of news is treated like something that has to be kept under wraps, as if there’s a high chance that they’ll break-up, and so it’s more convenient that no one knows… just in case.
In this sense, JW’s attitude to dating Jang is actually better. He is rejoicing in his good news, and shares it with his friends and family. He is unembarrassed, childlike in his enthusiasm and eager to do his best, albeit in an inexperienced way.
@GB Oh, did JWan take Jae-hak’s advice on the rings? Hmm, I’ll have to rewatch that scene. If he asked her and she still returned it unopened, then that changes things a bit. We still don’t know in canon if she lied about not receiving the package though, that’s our theory for now.
Yes, dating in secrecy for these many months is suspicious imo, but not new to ShinLee, they did it with the SunBora track too – IIRC even their parents and friends were oblivious to their dating, then break-up, and subsequent reconciliation (which spanned YEARS lmao). Only Taek knew right from the beginning because he “caught them in the act” (hmm, parallel with JWon chancing upon Bidulgi video call in S2E1? 😉).
As of now, I hold them both responsible for making their fair share of mistakes, but as @pandamilktea pointed out, in the context of the show, these are not irredeemable.
Hi everyone,
I see valid points here for bidulgi couple. I do think that if they are endgame, Iksun needs to meet Junwan halfway. I remember them talking about iksun’s past relationship, so the possibility that Iksun is not ready and indeed return the package should be something Junwan can comprehended. Regardless of that, Iksun made several mistakes here by choosing to hide the truth from Junwan. We’ve seen how mature Junwan can handle the hiccups before, but to expect him to keep tolerating that is unfair.
I just realized here that there are two hidden relationships here, WG and Bidulgi. I forgot whether bidulgi ever discuss on telling everyone like WG did. It is not a good sign for bidulgi to hide it, since they’ve been dated for a while. While Bidulgi and WG both almost get caught by others have some comedic purposes to it, it should be deeper than that. I wonder if IJ will found out in the next ep.
“You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free.”
If you are in a romantic relationship, and even months of dating you don’t want your family and friends to know about it or are not honest about it (WG and Bidulgi), then it is problematic. Relationships are built on trust, honesty and transparency. That’s the issue I also have with both WG and Bidulgi–their relationships are built on secrecy.
Until Iksun is completely honest with JWan, he will always love her more than she loves him, and he will always be suspecting something is going on…it’s too painful to live like that so I hope JWan breaks up with Iksun in E4. If she comes back to him then great, if not, it was never meant to be.
Same for WG, Jang must know how inappropriate her relationship with her mentor is that’s why she wants to always keep it a secret.
I can see them breaking up in Ep 4 and then getting back together later in the season.
I’d prefer that, because I don’t think they’re on the same page at the moment. I guess Iksun will come back where she is in a different chapter in her life and open for a more serious commitment (maybe even marriage).
I think it’s too late to introduce a new love interest for Jwan, and since she is Ikjun’s sister and Uju’s aunt, Iksun’s character is bound to stick around.
@noodles agreed, and when they reconcile, it will be on JWan’s terms, like how SunBora got together only after Bora agreed to SunWoo’s conditions. It makes the most sense to me right now.
Kalimera everyone,
These days I have a lot on my plate and I cannot follow up the HP thread as I want to. I noticed in my notifications that you were talking about the Bidulgi couple and I would like to add my thoughts, saying beforehand that I haven’t being able to read all the comments around here.
I love JWan. He grew on me, since the first season. He is the tsundere type that hides a heart of gold.
Regarding IkSun, I have written it before in another thread, I wanted the return of the rings to be a misunderstanding.
I wrote that but deep inside I felt that if she did it on purpose, after JWan told her about it, as @GB mentioned above after the talk he had with Jae-Hak, then it is a direct message that she doesn’t trust herself and doesn’t value that much this relationship.
The problem, as some of you have mentioned, is IkSun and not JWan. I haven’t watched the Reply series, but we all have dated and some of us got hurt. That’s how we learn from Life itself, who the right partner is for us.
IkSun is hurt, but it is HER job to solve her issues and not JWan’s.
He is there for her indeed, but JWan is not her ex.
JWan is a person that IkSun knows since she was younger. He is one of her brother’s best friends. He is not a stranger. He has heard about him and she finally discovered more about him during their shared time together in S.Korea.
So, I agree with @Packmule3, that she told lies by omission. As a result, JWan feels betrayed. Of course he would be, since he opened his heart to her. The one who is being hurt this time around is definitely JWan.
IkSun on the other hand, is in this relationship and she isn’t. That’s why I said it is HER job to fix herself. She should go and see a specialist and try to heal her wounds.
Since her move in the UK, she has been toxic to JWan. First with the return of the ring, second with the lies she told him and third by the fact that she doesn’t listen to him. She only wants to be heard, but she doesn’t listen how JWan feels or doesn’t say aloud.
We are all talking about the lack of Jang’s empathy, but here we have another case of lack of empathy.
So, I don’t know if they will break up. If they do, I don’t think that they should reconcile. IkSun has to do a lot of work, in order to be able to trust a man again and she needs to be brave about it.
Bravery is not knowing 7 types of martial arts and kicking a$$**.
Bravery is to understand that you are wrong and you are hurting someone and stop it.
Bravery is to apologize that you did that.
Bravery is to love yourself and being able to understand when someone else does love you and you don’t have to “burn” him, because you have trust issues.
Noone deserves to have a partner like that and that’s my thoughts on the Bidulgi couple.
I have posted something here, but it didn’t go through…
Found it. 🙂
Thank you @packmule3 💋🌹❤️
@Cleo @packmule2, did IkSun told IkJun that she is dating JWan? Iirc, Last episode she said that they are always talking about anything. I don’t remember Bidulgi discussed about telling or no telling IkJun. I know that JWan is trying hard to make time to tell IkJun, but just like her sister, IkJun is not interested at all with JWan’s obvious problem. Bidulgi is indeed mirroring WG, both women want to hide, both men want to open up about their relationship. They are the epitome of Emergency couples
@BulmaGoku,
It is not clear. So far, I think that JWon has realized who Bidulgi really is.
That’s why in Episode 2, he started a conversation that JWon’s girlfriend in the UK infront of IkJun.
I am not sure that IkJun really knows. JWan tried to tell him three times that I remember but he was always busy. As for IkSun, we haven’t witnessed or heard about telling her brother about her relationship.
@BulmaGoku there is indeed mirroring. You don’t understand it at first, but if you notice here and there the little details you will get it.
We should see how it will go for both of them.
@Cleopatra, beautifully explained. You echoed the thoughts of many of us here and added more perspective. Thank you. Iksun does have to sort out her trust issue before she can be fully committed with Jwan. And Jwan needs to bring this up with her and not just keep it within himself. The mirroring is also true although there are distinct differences as well between both girls with regard to their personality, and their approach to the relationship.
@miracle23,
You are welcome! When I saw that you were discussing this, I tried to find some time to write down some of my thoughts! Of course, there are differences. Still, both ladies should find out where is they are lacking to become better.
As we grow up, we need to hug our inner child, love ourselves more, stop criticizing and overblaming what we did and when. Let’s embrace who we are and be happy for the experiences that shaped us to who we are today!
I am glad you are discussing those things!
I am just sad that I cannot participate in the conversation as I used to… 🙁
I’m late in catching up with the series but I’m updated now and I thought that fan fare when Jeongwon entered Songhwa’s office was a big bang to say, it’s him. 🎉 He’s the guy that’s for her. ☺️
I didn’t think it was funny too, straw up IJ’s nostril. 😬
Beautifully said, @Cleopatra. There might not be much hope for IkSun’s rehabilitation. She is, after all, Auntie Terminator. She kicked JWan in the face then teased him when holding the mirror as he applied salve to his wound: that showed a lack of empathy. Another time when JWan visited her on her Army post, she pushed him to the ground and laughed. Even if she never meant to inflict physical harm to JWan, her behavior immediately following the incidents shows she’s mean spirited, not adverse to inflicting emotional harm to JWan. And you’re right: IkSun doesn’t make the effort to listen to JWan. She’s self-centered. She’s like her brother in many ways.
Clear as day. I DON’T want your love for me 😂😂…just in case you missed it…
I DON’T want your love for me (once more for the dummies)
https://www.instagram.com/p/CRFen03n4dT/?utm_medium=copy_link
@Welmaris,
So very true. We seem to not notice red herrings, but they were there all over the place. Those were not funny scenes to watch.
She even told JWan that they lie in their family! *shivers*
I am very disappointed not with her. I am disappointed because JWan goes through hell for a person who doesn’t deserve it.
@Cleopatra, we also should remember the beginning of the Dove couple: IkSun asked JWan to give her a week to decide if she’d enter a relationship with him. She made a decision with her brain, not her heart. That’s not necessarily a bad beginning, but if her heart never followed, she wasn’t being loving toward JWan to continue. Look at her track record: she wanted to keep their relationship secret from others, she had close emotional bonds with other men (ChiHong, the London best friend), she didn’t tell JWan she was going to London for three years, she assumed her going to London would be the end of their relationship (already wanting to give up before she’d even left), she turned down JWan’s offer to resend the package with her ring. Yes, much evidence was given us that IkSun was not as committed to JWan as he to her.