The thread is now open for spoilers and discussion.
Note: Ha Ram’s instincts to protect her were there from the start because he was the one appointed to walk with her on her journey.
When she was born, Samshin said to her, “To think that he made you blind. Then again, Mawang has always been mean. Baby, I cannot life your curse, but I will match you with someone who will protect you from the curse.” Then Ha Ram was born.
That’s why this scene when he accompanied her to the Painter’s Hall wasn’t just a filler. It’s supposed to foreshadow the story of their life.
Then, they ran away from the scary woman in the peach orchard, and he bandaged her wound.
Also, his protective instincts surfaced when she hid from the storeowner in his palanquin.
Pics from dangermousie’s tumblr:
source: dangermousie’s tumblr
Even when he was in pain, his first thought was to protect her.
Pics from dangermousie’s tumblr:
source: dangermousie’s tumblr
He caught her and saved her from falling.
Pics from myfavoriteskdrama’s tumblr:
source: myfavoritekdrama’s tumblr
And he sensed it when she was feeling bothered by the Prince’s teasing. He sent her away to rescue her from the uncomfortable situation.
Gifs from surii’s tumblr:
And lastly, he appeared just in the nick of time to rescue her from the same storekeeper who was going to abduct her.
Gifs from liveasbutterflies’ tumblr:
Nice red cane tassel.
Do you see what I mean about Ha Ram protecting and caring for her? 🙂
Let’s enjoy the show.
Thank you, @packmule. Didn’t the stills of Ha-Ram looking out of the palanquin look like an oil painting? Caravaggio or de La Tour? I loved the protective shadows – where Hong Cheon-Gi was hiding.
Kalimera ladies!
Let us enjoy the show!
@Fern you are right. They remind us a painting indeed!
Brand New Release from the Soundtrack!
Yang Da Il – You and I
I’m sorry but I can’t join you in viewing this show. Not enough time… however, I still read the posts and listen to OST. Enjoy!!!
This drama is wonderful so far but I can’t stand Ha Ram. Bad actor (trees are better at emoting than he), those ugly contacts don’t look blind but cross-eyed and his bushy brows are ugh. He only looks passable in his Flying Jack Sparrow form. Prince Yangmyeong’s much better character and actor and made Ep 4 so dynamic even though it was just a painting contest but the episode was great cause Ha Ram was backgrounded ha ha. So we got Annoying One, Obnoxious One and Long Face dynamic plus Hong Cheon Gi and Yangmyeong duel of words. Pity that they are flirting with the love triangle when it’s way too obvious that Divine Painter and the Bushy Brows are the endgame. The number of endgame tropes (met as kids, are the dyad in the Force) is too great to have any suspense about whom HCG will choose. Of course it’s going to be the Bushy Brow Tree.
pwahahaha. You had me laughing at “bushy brows.” I thought I was the only one who got distracted by those extra long brows. The stylist needs to trim those, especially the eyebrows closest to the glabella.
It reminded me of this monkey’s eyebrows.
https://media.glamour.com/photos/56959dca93ef4b09520d837b/master/w_1600,c_limit/beauty-blogs-girls-in-the-beauty-department-2008-12-22-1222-long-eyebrow_bd.jpg
In my opinion though his stiffness is appropriate for his blindness. If he contorted his face or moved his body too much, he’d look spastic and that would me guffaw.
The spirit of spring fills the mountain as we walk among the peach blossom.
I keep waiting for the peaches and search morning and night.
I liked how show connected CG to HR in the end of the episode. ☺️But there were times where I thought he was looking at her. 😁
Prince Myung officially likes CG now. Those butterflies landing on her painting was cool.
If I were ChungKi, I’d snub Prince3 and make Prince3 grovel. 🙂
Ohhhh I’d like that. 😁
@packmule3 HR’s bodyguard wins when it comes to brooding sexiness. 😂. He flicked those beans and took out those goons surreptitiously. Strangely enough I also like HR’s manservant ManSoo. I think this actor played SongKang’s bestie in Navillera? I like his sincerity. Still not sure about AHS. I tolerate him. 😂. When everyone started to swoon as he walked past the judging section, I wasn’t exactly convinced that he was all that they said he was… now were he Cha EunWoo…I would nod my head furiously. 😂
Loved, loved, loved the painting comp. Time just flew by during the watch. ❤️
@nrllee,
I like the Annoying One. He always acts exasperated with their antics but ends up helping them. I’ve a brother like that.
And I don’t know how the bodyguard was able to flick those beans so hard they hit the target like a BB gun pellet.
AHS… 😂 He did nothing much this episode so I ignored him. His character really couldn’t stand up on the table and shake his hindquarters for attention, could he? I can’t judge his acting when he’s supposed to be just an audience.
But yes, I don’t know why the guests were swooning when he walked on stage. Was he supposed to have an aura or something? 😂😂
Yes. Loved the painting competition. I was going to explain the Prince’s words, but will post it tomorrow instead.
Kalimera everyone!
I am really enjoying the painting competition, especially the divine painter part. The Nabis coming to Hong Gi’s painting was amazing cinematography.
What make it an excellent scene was the usage of black and white in the beginning that led to the return of the colour in the end. It gave substance to what was going on at that time.
As for the actor Ahn Hyo-seop, I am lenient to my critique since he has a disadvantage. It is not an easy thing for someone who has not a disability to play one that has. Especially of the hearing impaired or in our case his character lacks visability.
I grew up with an grandmother who was able to see and gradually her eyesight was failing, until an accident took away all that was left.
Those who were able to see and then cannot see, follow the sounds and their eyes are moving as well. There were times that she was looking at me straight to my face, because she “knew” where I was standing.
So, what was being showed yesterday is a well written scene, I can confirm it.
Man Su was talking to Ha Ram and writing into his palm the words. Kinda like Braille.
At the same time, I have to analyze the scene where Cheon Gi was leading Ha Ram. This one is indeed another excellent scene. A blind person’s companion doesn’t goes as he / she pleases. The person with the disability is the one who leads, always.
I have met several persons in the metro, where they don’t want someone else to touch them. And that is a code of conduct that exists and we should accept it.
I have done research on the matter and I have met not only people who are blind but also people who are deaf.
I have even watched theather with actors who have disabilities and I can say that they can do what we can do, as long as they have an outlet to express themselves.
So, for me Ahn Hyo-seop is not a bad actor.
He is more than decent in LotRS and does his best in a situation that we cannot even understand, because we haven’t experienced it at all. What we think we know, we don’t know at all.
I have watched the Behind The Scenes clips and the director is always there giving intel to him how to look or not look at Kim Yoo Jung. If we think that is easy for him to pretend he cannot see, when his own eyes betray him, via unconscious movements, it is not.
Also, during the shootings he is not wearing red lenses, the effect is CGI added later on.
That’s all from me. Let us enjoy tonight’s episode!
“ I like the Annoying One. He always acts exasperated with their antics but ends up helping them. I’ve a brother like that.”
@packmule3 high 5! NaDo (Me too) 👍. He caught my eye the first time he appeared with CG. Sensible but kind. I can’t hate Prince3. I know he’s been set up to be the competitor for her love (not that we’re in any danger of CG swaying), CG’s impudence at being disqualified could’ve resulted in more dire consequences had he been less forgiving. But he let her speak. Did I detect conflict in his eyes when he realized it was her that forged the painting? 😂
@Cleo I loved that about the B&W and then colour as the butterflies made their way to her painting. And yes AHS did admit that he found it hard acting as a blind person. It’s hard not to look at a person when they are speaking to you or move your eyes when you hear a sound. He’s not doing a bad job of it. Certainly not cringey. But he doesn’t hold my attention. For me he lacks screen presence.
Hey @nrllee,
It is my first time watching a drama that AHS is playing. I wanted to watch Dr. Romantic Season 2 but I have put in in hold for HP. So far, I am waiting to see more, since the real action is not out in the open yet.
I like him though. He has good articulation and good insticts.
From what I have gathered, AHS seems to be an introvert.
For that reasons, so far he holds my attention.
If that changes in the future, I will say so!
As for the actor portraying the Third Prince, I have watched him in “The Bride of Habaek / The Bride of the Water God” and he is nice. I wanted to see if he has evolved since then!
So far, I can tell that the role suits him, because the 3rd Grand Prince is funny at times and then serious when he has to be. Someone has to light up the atmosphere, since we know that angst is going to come later on.
That’s why they also introduced us to the Obnoxious one and the Annoying one. Stress relief!
@Cleopatra, My impression of Ha Ram, is that he is a character who has to show restraint at all times. Not only because he has a secret agenda and can’t afford to let his feelings show, but also because of his disability. He knows that others are are communicating through silent body language – gestures and facial expressions – that he can’t see to understand. I think he keeps his body language minimal to prevent people reading what he can’t. That is to say, if he is still and keeps a ‘poker face’, he can try to level the playing field. I didn’t understand why Man Su writes in his hand when he could whisper in his ear. I might expect a deaf person to have that sort of communication, but perhaps it’s only more of the secrecy he wishes to keep.
Ha Ram must have asked Man Su to keep a bit behind because Cheon Gi believed he was unaccompanied. I believe he did it on purpose to keep her near him for a while. It meant that she could show her concern for him and his safety against ‘those men’ who worked for Wolseongdang. It was a contrast of the time they met when he had sight and tried to help her. When he says here that he had a good mentor, he might mean his body guard, but he might also mean her at their first meeting.
After Ha Ram is seated, his hearing lets him understand what the 2nd prince is commenting about. That is useful. He doesn’t trust the 2nd prince for good reason. The second prince is subtly trying to influence opinion against Ha Ram and against the 3rd prince by his comments. I wouldn’t be surprised if Ha Ram has asked for a seat in that position.
Maybe it the subs or simply too subtle for me: Ha Ram tells the 2nd Prince he is there because he received a revitalisation fortune which meant the heavens willed it and it allowed him to sit near the 2nd prince. The 2nd prince replied, I am happy to hear someone as dignified as you speak such words to me. As Ha Ram walks away, one of his retinue says, What (a) mischievous man you are! and they all have a laugh. Is it a way of the 2nd prince saying that Ha Ram is flattering him but he doesn’t believe it? Or something else? I loved the 2nd princes little twitch of a snarl when Ha Ram says good bye. I’m impressed by Kwak Si-Yang’s acting.
@Fern,
I totally agree with you!
Ha Ram doesn’t want everyone to know what Man Su is informing him. Man Su is Ha Ram’s eyes figurativelly, where Cheong Gi is literally HaRam’s eyes. Ma Wang’s eyes.
I also believe that the reason Man Su was writing on his palm, is that he has mustered pretty well the hearing aspect of what is going on around him! That’s why we saw that flashback. He remembers what CG taught him when they were almost 9 y.o.
As for the scene with the 2nd Prince, what you trascribed it was subbed on Viki as well. In Episode 4, the courtesan found out and informed Il Wol-sung / Ha Ram that the 2nd Prince would attend the Painting Competition. So, HR said so, as the Royal Astrologer to flatter him indeed.
What made Ha Ram cringe though, is that one of the 2nd Prince’s retinue is the killer of his parents and Ha Ram heard him laugh that made his blood boil.
Hence we had another flashback and the revenge scheme came in play.
I haven’t encountered Kwak Si Yang before, but I have heard that he plays bad guys pretty good. The 2nd Prince is ruthless and he portrays that aspect of his character pretty well. He is the total contrast of the 3rd Prince. That’s why his brother is more loveable from the Court and the people.
P.S. If it was a modern kdrama, a deaf person could use sign language, which I know that it is different from country to country. For example, Greek sign language is different from the American one. I haven’t checked but the Korean one might be different as well.
In our case, this cannot happen, since Sound is pivotal in the drama’s development. It is a vehicle, not only to what Cheon Gi taught Ha Ram, that made Ha Ram as @packmule3 said to become involved with information, BUT also to make us understand that (seeing and) hearing is a blessing indeed.
Kalimera, @Cleopatra. I guess what I was wondering about the 2nd prince’s exchange of words with the prince is why someone said it was mischievous?
About sign language, American SL is different from that used in Britain, too. So strange. Britain has two sign languages, British sign language and Makaton, which is based on British sign language, but used in conjunction with speech as an aid in communication. It is used by the school I work for by all of the children at times, especially in singing. It is thought to be helpful for children with special needs who have a difficult time speaking as well as to support children whose first language isn’t English.
When I looked up sign language on Wikipedia, there seem to be as many sign languages as there are countries or more.
Kalimera @Fern!
I think that Ha Ram is being diplomatic. Don’t you forget that he is the Royal Astronomer and that he is the King’s favorite. Since we haven’t seen the Crown Prince, but only the 2nd and 3nd Princes, we had to know where HaRam stands and with whom.
Since, in Episode 3 Ha Ram went MIA in Winter’s Solstice, the King ordered only the 3rd Prince to go and look after him. In yesterday’s episode, the 3rd Prince said to the participants that Ha Ram is his friend.
So, I think that Ha Ram knows where he stands with the 3rd Prince, but not with the 2nd one. So, in order to be in good terms with him, he tried to compliment him, as a royal subject would do so.
Regarding sign language, I wanted to learn Greek SL as well, but I couldn’t do both with my second major. I had no time. Maybe in the future.
@Fern,
Re. the comment of the 2nd Prince’s minion, “What a mischievous man you are”
I think it’s known to Prince #2’s group how he really felt about painting, calligraphy, literature, astrology, and other fine pursuits. He saw them as pasttimes of the effete and weak like younger brother.
So when Prince 2 said that he was “happy” to hear someone as dignified as HaRam speak flowery language to him, he was really being ironic, sarcastic, mocking. He really didn’t care one bit about “revitalization fortune” and “heaven’s will” (lol. Not after Mawang eluded him…) and Ha Ram sitting near him. He knew Ha Ram was just flattering him as was required of courtiers.
Of course, he didn’t realize that the joke was on him. Ha Ram, by being unctuous and flattering, was actually mocking him, too. He was sitting near the Prince 2 so he could “keep an eye” on his treachery.
Thank you for this explanation, @packmule3. So the flattery and the ‘acceptance’ of the flattery were both disrespectful in another level.
I re-watched the scenes with the 2nd prince. The actor is very good at micro-expressions, almost like tics, that for me seem to mark his character’s instability. But I think he will be surprised at some point by the 3rd prince, who may be stronger at fighting than he imagined. In RL the actor has a bit of bulk hidden by the court robes.
Regarding the verses that the 3rd prince wrote, do Long Face and Cheong Gi not know how to read, or can’t read well – maybe only common characters?
@Fern,
The characters are written in Chinese, not hangul, so Long Face and CheongGi do not know how to read them.
Remember CheongKi — when she went to give the list of painters to Prince3 — couldn’t read the sign post of the mansion. That’s because it was written in Chinese. 🙂
They only know how to read hangul which was specifically designed and invented for the commoners. Their friend, Obnoxious One, however, knows how to read Chinese.
@Packmule3,
Thank you for this explanation to @Fern!
@Fern,
I believe the same with you! I think that the 3rd Prince hasn’t forgotten what happened 20 years ago with his Huyng, before the 2nd Prince freed MaWang. If you remember the scene, the 2nd Prince kicked the 3rd Prince and he passed out.
The 3rd Prince might be better prepared than his Hyung / the 2nd Prince believes.
The 3rd Prince won’t be an easy opponent! I am waiting for that as well!
Count me in in the Team Annoying One, Team Bodyguard and Team Man Soo. The first 2 are hot, the last one is adorable. Annoying One looks like the child of SJK and LDW, lol.
Sorry Ha Ram fans but the actor is terrible. I’ve seen 100s of great disability performances (including the terrific child actress from this very drama!) and this ain’t it. Also, they should fix his make up (on top of trimming his brows as already discussed). He always looks oily-skinned.
I’m impatiently waiting for Viki’s upload of Ep 6. Painting competition was so exciting.
I do not care about Kataro’s revenge. I call him Kataro cause he’s a water-bender or something lol. Speaking of, where did that power go? And can someone explain to me why he LARPs as V for Vendetta in his spare time?
Episode 6 was amazing for all the right reasons!
More tomorrow!
Ep 6 was fantastic! Romance is dull but fortunately there isn’t much of it. Painting contest and all the meaningful dialog about paintings and metaphors are absolute ace.
Prince Yul is the best character hands down. He better become the King.
The only downside is that we came this close to seeing Flying Jack Sparrow again but no cigar. #bringJackback #justice4Jack #forgetitJack #youdontknowJack
Favorite moment: Prince Yul figures out the meaning of butterfly painting. ♥♥♥
Please don’t ruin this drama in the next 10 episodes!
@Anonymous Johnny Depp. My first thought of Evil HR was Edward Scissorhands 😂. But Flying Jack Sparrow works too.
Johnny Depp said he channelled Keith Richards for Flying Jack Sparrow.
Kalimera,
I really enjoyed Episode 6, because it was used by the director as a vehicle for the actual action to get started.
Scriptwise, Episodes 5&6 are true to Aristotle’s Poetica and I am pretty glad we get to see an event with beginning and ending that led to a cliffhanger.
Also, the mirror scene where the adults HaRam and Cheon Gi said the exact lines in reverse in comparison with the children’s one, was beautiful filmed and executed.
As for the ART contest and execution, I read that Kim Yoo-jung after finished “Moon Embracing the Sun” promised to Writernim Ha Eun to learn to paint in order to take the role of Cheon Gi when the book would be made a tv series.
I really liked how the 3rd Prince explained CG’s third painting.
Real art lovers and art enthusiasts can feel and understand more about the artist’s intention even from a single stroke. If you have studied History of Art, then this is more focused and profound and it leaves an impact.
Since the 3rd Prince is a Patron himself, and at the same time a very good painter and excellent in calligraphy, we can understand the depth of his character by understanding and explaining CG’s intention in her Navillera frame.
As @Packmule3 pointed in her thread “The meaning of Butterflies” it seems that the Nabi / Butterfly is a symbol of great power and significance.
The most known one is that the nabi represents the Goddess of birth, SamShin.
If we add to the conversation, what @Packmule3 wrote about what Navillera means for Koreans, back in the Navillera’s threads, then we even have a deeper meaning to that symbol.
I will also add the ancient greek interpretation that a butterfly is psyche.
My Interpretation on her painting:
Cheon Gi painting that Navillera painting, in order to express how her heart beats fast when she is with HaRam. She was paying a Homage to their spend time together.
She used that painting to expressed her feelings when she is / was with him.
That’s why before she started she was thiking and talking to him silently. She started to fly like a butterfly herself. That is how HaRam is making her feel.
I could add more to my intepretation, if I had a print screen of the shot in order to see which colours she used and how she painted each butterfly that are different from each other. I can only comment that she used her thin brush to sketch those nabis that shows refine taste and skill. She didn’t fill the whole canvas, only the space that was needed.
Overall, her painting gives the audience a warm feeling. It captures her true feelings for HaRam the boy she misses, since the adult HaRam doesn’t let her near him.
That’s all for now…
I like the music playing in the background of Episode 5, starting around timestamp 8:00, as the painters set up for the competition. The phrase “Hey ya jihwaja” is repeated, and it reminds me of Bollywood music. I wish I could find it on Spotify or YouTube.
Before the interchange between Ha Ram and Prince2 at the painting competition, two of Prince2’s retinue talk about Ha Ram as if they haven’t seen him, only heard about him. One mentions being curious because Ha Ram is favored by the king. Ha Ram had been warmly greeted by Prince3 and it was clear they are friends; it could be that there is little, or no, overlap of the circles around Princes 2 & 3. It is likely this gathering was a rare opportunity for Ha Ram to be in the presence of Prince2 and his sycophants in an informal setting. ManSoo recognized Grand Prince Juhyang on sight, calling his presence to the attention of Ha Ram. This may have been a bit of theater Ha Ram arranged for the benefit of Prince2, setting the stage so he could use the Obfuscating Disability trope: highlighting his blindness so he will be underestimated and considered harmless. He speaks in a mildly ingratiating manner with Prince2, who is snarky with his response, “I am happy to hear someone as dignified as you speak such words to me.” It is clear to the others that Prince2 is neither happy with Ha Ram’s words, nor considers Ha Ram dignified; that is why one calls Prince2 mischievous. They don’t realize Ha Ram is positioning himself to gather intelligence on them to exact revenge for his parents’ deaths.
During Grand Prince Yangmyung’s greeting and introductions at the contest’s start, painters “clapping” using their painting supplies reminded me of orchestra string players tapping their music stands with their bows. This detail was a nice touch to give the impression of etiquette that had developed in the history of painting contests.
In episode 5 we are told that a green-eyed goblin, named Hwacha, liked to paint and would visit nightly with painter Shim Dae Yu (Straw Hat) to engage in a painting duel. Back in Episode 1, after the old king’s portrait was completed and moved outside to the ritual, both painters who remained in the building where the portrait was done had their right arms overtaken by a green energy force that caused them pain then knocked them unconscious. While the ritual outside became a battle between Ma Wang the the head of the Taoist bureau, Ha Seong Ji (using a sword that looked borrowed from TK:EM), the two painters woke in the room, but painter Gan Yun Guk’s eyes had emerald green irises with slit pupils. He turned away from Hong Eun-O, walked through a screen and dissipated. At the end of Episode 4, when CK is locked up in the Shed of Truth, a man clothed in black and wearing a loosely woven rattan hat came to collect the painting he commissioned. When Chun Bok told him the painting was not ready, the man’s irises turned emerald green and his pupils became slits. He telepathically asked the question, “Where is the painter I designated?” Chun Bok’s irises briefly turned green and he looked toward the locked shed. The green-eyed man in black also looked at the shed. When Chun Bok blocked him, he was pushed aside by the green-eyed man who then magically broke the two iron locks and moved aside the heavy wooden bolt. He asked CK for his munbae (gate guarding) and sehwa (New Year’s painting). His irises were still somewhat green, but the pupils looked like a human’s. CK gave him a sehwa she painted while locked in the shed. It looked like him. As he peered at it, his irises again became emerald green and the painted image appeared to flow toward his face. He smiled, and said he likes it. CK then made her escape from the shed, and the green-eyed man did not try to stop her. We later see, in explanation of how Straw Hat became known as magic painter, that the green-eyed goblin, Hwacha, who had painting duels with him was the one who visited CK in the shed.
Oof! Where did the time go? I started this comment hours ago, and suddenly it is 2 a.m. I’ll call it quits for now and go to sleep.
I thoroughly enjoyed ep 5 & 6! I especially loved the whole painting contest. I like the 3rd Prince’s character. He was very firm in his decision (though biased) but when the all pass tile was used, he still followed the rules and he didn’t take what his teacher did personally. At the 2nd round, I can sense that the 3rd Prince was still being biased with CG but he then softened when he learned about her past. I loved the part when he realized CG’s interpretation of the prompt on the last round. It’s a relief for CG that someone actually appreciates her interpretation and saw through what she was trying to portray. I also appreciate how the 3rd Prince did not just let what CG did (making imitations) go. He had a talk with her and gave her a piece of his mind. CG was hurt yet she also knows that the 3rd Prince’s words hold value since her father also believes the same. It also shows how the 3rd Prince is not only into art but that he really respects and values the whole process of creating art.
I enjoyed how they showed nature through colors when CG was telling them that she used to be blind. By now, HR must have realized that she gained her eyesight the same day he lost his. It was also only in ep 6 that I realized that CG’s butterfly mark was actually based on Samshin’s butterfly form – the first thing CG saw when she gained her eyesight.
In ep 6, we have confirmed how dangerous things can get when CG and HR are in contact with each other, more so when being intimate. Although HR denied that he was that boy, I like how CG did not take his word for it and recognized him regardless. I also find it amusing that when they were kids, HR was the one that was friendly to the cold CG. But now, HR was the one being cold and CG was the one reaching out to him. That scene when they paralleled their conversation to the one they had when they were kids simply showed that for the both of them, the memory that they shared was something that they never had truly forgotten. HR keeps telling himself that he has already let go of CG yet he still can’t stop himself from being concerned, even bidding for her painting. CG was right. Just like a brush stroke already drawn, their relationship can’t be undone – especially if it’s one that’s arranged by Samshin herself.
Thanks, @Welmaris. That scene when the painters were clapping with their painting instruments reminded me of something but I couldn’t figure it out until you pointed out that it was like the orchestra strings when they applaud.
Yes, that little bit of detail added to the excitement of the competition. It’s not only a competition, but a pageantry. If I had been a spectator of such event, I’d be impressed with Prince3. He did an awesome job hosting the tradition.
I am in danger of SLS (Second Lead Syndrome) after Ep6. Gah I am in love with Prince3 and his graciousness. He let HR take the painting. He did not yield to Prince2’s demands of a coup against the sickly Crown Prince. I much prefer Prince3’s straightforward character to HR’s duplicity. 😂
Ep6 flew by as well. The painting competition was a treat. I liked Annoying One’s horse painting best. 🙂
https://i.ibb.co/F8RN0g3/AC413-F46-76-B2-40-A5-8-BD0-C156-FCD3-EAE7.jpg
I replied to @Cleopatra, but it hasn’t shown up. Thankfully some of my queries were answered in the last comments.
@nrllee Prince 3 is such a likeable character ❤️ I can see that he truly values his relationships. He yielded to HR for the painting without any grudge and he is also loyal to the Crown Prince. I really hope that the three of them (P3, HR, CG) would be able to become good friends and allies. I don’t want to see some toxic love triangle in the end.
At first, I thought that they would portray P3 as someone who only loves to enjoy and does not care about state affairs. But I now know he’s much more than that. He was able to see CG’s mark in the painting. He then changed the 1st prompt in order to catch the imitation painter. He was also able to immediately catch on to what P2 was telling him. He is working with his teacher to find a divine painter and the king trusts him enough to ask his assistance in finding HR. Like @Anonymous said, I also would want him to be king. He does not act like it but he can be regal if he truly wants to.
@Fern, I checked in the pending, spam, trash boxes. Your post isn’t there.
Maybe you posted in the “Meaning of the Butterflies” thread? 🙂
@nrllee,
🙂
I warned y’all NOT to fall in love with the Prince3, didn’t I? Didn’t I? I knew this was going to happen as soon as I saw the actor. He always exudes this “lovable but friend-zoned” vibes.
Friendzone/love triangle is totally unnecessary in this drama. HCG doesn’t care for Prince Yul. Her mind is set on HaRam so there’s no drama since she isn’t in a dilemma about whom to choose. She only wants HaRam full stop. While Yul’s interest in HCG is part of his character development – learns to be a just (future) ruler because he now understands how the lower class lives – that could be achieved without making him the third wheel. He could be a compassionate royal rather than compassionate due to love for a commoner.
HaRam hates him anyway and just pretends to be his friend. He only wants revenge so pretty toxic character if you ask me.
I loved Ep 5&6 but it really annoyed me that no one has told HCG what really happened to her father, plus Haram keeping secrets from her. All that “for your protection” crap only gets people killed, never protects anyone.
I think that Yul’s Hyung-nim will be shocked when it turns out that Yul is the rightful King that came to see the painting, not him. After all, it was 2 Princes and the rightful one is never the one who wants it and tries to do the power grab.
@packmule3, 🤦♀️. You are correct.
@Anonymous, I don’t think that Ha Ram hates the 3rd prince. He does want revenge on the King – he’s sure that the King is the person responsible for his parents’ deaths.
In the current King’s eyes, the rightful King is the one next in line – the crown prince who is ill and possibly recovering. The current King thinks that the people won’t accept anyone out of the correct order of ascendancy. I would be willing to bet that the Crown Prince never gets the chance to wear the crown, or wears it only until ‘illness’ claims him.
The conversation between the two brothers was interesting. I think that Prince 2 went to his point too quickly; but his logical questions about the legitimacy of his grandfather and father pushed Yul into a corner. If Yul had said that they were traitors, he would be accused of treason and damned by the court and all who supported the king. It would also mean that he wasn’t a prince. Then the 2nd Prince threatened Yul. Bad moves, because now Yul will never trust him.
I’m disappointed that they went with Prince 2 threatening Yul cause it seemed that he cared for his baby brother. But I guess they want a mustache-twirling villain, without any redeeming quality, as if Steppenwolf and Jack Sparrow ain’t enough.
They better not kill Yul.
“ I warned y’all NOT to fall in love with the Prince3, didn’t I? Didn’t I? I knew this was going to happen as soon as I saw the actor. He always exudes this “lovable but friend-zoned” vibes.”
Indeed. 🤣. I just want him to live and not die some gruesome death because he sacrifices himself for the OTP. He is kind. He listens well and isn’t afraid to proffer counsel for the other person’s greater good. Like he did to CG. So yes he would make a good king. He even attempted to do this with Hyung Prince2. This actor is doing a marvellous job of playing villain. There’s an underlying malevolence about him and his sneers hit the mark every time.
As for Prince3’s frivolity and “wastrel” ways, I think it’s his defense mechanism. As a Grand Prince, you have to toe this very fine line of staying “under the radar” lest you inadvertently portray yourself as “throne worthy”. So he attempts to stay away from politics by becoming Patron Prince of the Arts (which include dancing Gisaengs 😂).
I thought we didn’t need to see the younger kids’ kiss but they showed it anyway but maybe because they wanted to show it leading up to the adults’ kiss.
Anyway, no need to question why HR kissed CG, he paid for it with 300 seoks? It’s his farewell chuchu kiss. hehehe
Annyeong!
It is good that it is out in the open where the 3rd Prince stands.
The 2nd Prince has underestimated Yul.
I also agree with @Fern that HaRam doesn’t hate the 3rd Prince.
I wouldn’t call HaRam toxic @Anonymous.
His story is a tragic one and I could say that in this aspect, HaRam has similarities with a character from a ancient greek tragedy.
HaRam’s father was betrayed twice. The first time, after he gave his Taoist services to the previous King. The second, after the Shaman Lady sacrifized HaRam in order to rain in the kingdom. The rain happened, but HR lost his eyesight in the process. That is the known story to the humans involved. Let’s add Samshin’s plan to the mix. Then, the King ordered to kill his parents and he was a witness to all, in order to have HaRam as a trophy-talisman in the palace.
I could use that word on the 2nd Prince. He is not only toxic, but also poisonous. He has no remorse or any other (loving) feelings for his siblings. He even tried to assassinate the Crown Prince and threatened his younger brother in a blink.
He will create havoc and we know it. It will just unravel in the next episodes.
Regarding the Scene with the Princes talking alone. If you notice they are sitting the one opposing the other, this is a foreshadow for what it will happen next. I was expecting the 3rd Prince to decline when I saw the sitting arrangement. When he uttered the words, it solified that the 3rd Prince will oppose his brother’s plans boldly.
Since the tv-series korean name is actually Hong Cheon Gi and not the translated “The Lovers Of The Red Sky”, we get to Cheon Gi’s story and how she was evolved in politics and a “war” between not only humans but also Gods, even before she was born. The same applies for HaRam and the Royal Princes. They are all descendants of the people who were involved in the exorcism ritual 20 years ago. They just have to finish what it was started long before MaWang was split from SamShin.
@Cleopatra, I agree with your ideas about Ha Ram. Clearly he knows he contains Ma Wang and now, how Ma Wang might be triggered. Both he and Cheon Gi know that their sight changed at the same time. I agree with @Anonymous in this one topic, his kiss and his high bid for her painting are his goodbye to her. He has said that he is a dead man. He anticipates that his act of revenge, when it happens will result in his demise. His rejection of Cheon Gi is noble and logical.
I wrote in an earlier thread, The meaning of the name Hong Cheon Gi:
Hong remans Red; Cheon means Sky; Gi has many meanings but Cheong-Gi means a mysterious and deep twist of fate.
(Credit to Seafood Spicy Seaweed Ramen on d-beans)
Cheon Gi has been an agent of change already. I’m looking forward to the next episodes and how they will attempt to protect each other.
@Fern,
I don’t think that HaRam knows about MaWang. He might think it is the water demon inside him. Surely not MaWang the Demon King. The one who knows for sure is SamShin. The one who suspects it is the Shaman Lady. She wants to be certain before she reveals that to the 2nd Prince.
I know that HaRam’s rejection is noble and logical but his words will bite him…you know where. HaRam won’t be able to stay away from CheonGi.
Apologies to @agdr03; it was she who said about the goodbye kiss and not @Anonymous.
Ah, I thought he perceived Ma Wang after he kissed Cheon Gi and had a vision of himself in the water. Yes, Sam Shin knows.
Yes, of course Ha Ram won’t be able to stay away; she is his fate. Sam Shin will make sure that they stay together.
No need to say sorry @Fern. I wasn’t going to unfriend you or anything. 😂
I thought it was Mawang that HR saw too but I think @Cleopatra is right, it’s the water demon that’s what he thinks.
So now CG said in the preview, she will protect HR instead. Can’t wait. 😁
Oh and the kisses will probably stop for now. It’s fine.
Just like @Cleopatra, I also think that HR does not know anything about Mawang. In the last scene of ep 6, CG’s father mentioned Mawang and I think it was the first time that both HR and CG heard of the name. CG may dismiss it as something his father said because of illness but HR may find it suspicious since his father was also mentioned.
The 2nd Prince definitely knows about Mawang but does Yul (3rd Prince) also know? He seemed to have passed out before any of the action happened when Mawang was released. Lol. If this is the case, it seems like only the 2nd Prince knows about Mawang in their generation and the rest (CG, HR, Yul) are still clueless as of now.
@agdr03 They gave us a kiss scene in ep 6 because there won’t be anymore in a while. Lol. When HR realizes what triggers his inner demon, he’ll probably wouldn’t want to have physical contact with CG. It will be such a dilemma for them 😂 I also can’t wait to see how CG will protect and help HR out.
Transferring a post from a newcomer, @irmar. –pm3
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About the Crown Prince and his sickness. Remember, originally the novel was based on historical figures. King 1 was Taejong, King 2 was Sejong the Great (great patron of astronomy and all the sciences). The crown prince was indeed sickly and his younger brother did usurp the throne, not from him because he died, but from his young son. Read here:
Sejong was blinded by diabetes complications that eventually took his life in 1450. His successor was his first son, Munjong (Crown prince in this drama). Sejong judged that his sickly son, Munjong, was unlikely to live long and on his deathbed asked the Hall of Worthies scholars to look after his young grandson, Danjong. As predicted, Munjong died two years after his accession, and political stability enjoyed under Sejong disintegrated when Danjong became the sixth king of Joseon at the age of twelve. The new emperor was too young to rule the nation, and all political processes were controlled by the Chief State Councillor Hwangbo In and General Kim Jongseo, who was Left State Councillor. Kim Jongseo and his faction used the chance to extend the power of court officials against many royal family members. This created tension between Kim and Sejong’s second son, Yi Yu, Grand Prince Suyang (evil Prince 2 in the drama). Not only Suyang himself, but his younger brother, Grand Prince Anpyeong (romantic prince n.3 in the drama, also sought an opportunity to take control of the kingdom.
Eventually, Suyang usurped the throne from Danjong in 1455. On 10 November (10th day of the 10th lunar month) 1453, he killed Kim Jongseo and his faction, thereby taking the reins of power into his own hands. After the coup, he arrested his own brother, Anpyeong, first sending him into exile, then sentencing him to death.
Finally in 1455 he forced his powerless young nephew, Danjong, to abdicate, declaring himself seventh king of the Joseon dynasty under the name of king Sejo. Later he demoted Danjong to prince.
When the six ministers were implicated in a plot to restore Danjong to throne, Sejo abolished the Hall of Worthies, ordered Danjong to be poisoned after his younger brother, Grand Prince Geumsung and several ministers who had served during Sejong’s reign.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sejong_the_Great
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sejo_of_Joseon
Understandably, since it’s a fantasy drama, the drama writers decided to change all the names, but the original novel writer followed history – demons withstanding.
In reviewing eps. 5 & 6 before the next two are released, I was reminded of an important tidbit that was dropped. During the banquet attended by Princes 2 & 3 following the first day of the painting contest, talk turns to the Crown Prince. We learn he doesn’t have a Princess Consort and has declined having one selected for him, yet he has a son. My assumption is that the Crown Prince had a child with an unofficial partner, perhaps one only recognized as a concubine. Why wouldn’t that partner be his Princess Consort? Probably because she doesn’t meet the qualifications of connections, money, social class, etc.
As Prince #2 makes his grab for the throne, not only will he need to remove the Crown Prince, but he’ll need to eliminate the Crown Prince’s son too, legitimate or not. So I expect that son to make an appearance later in the drama.
This quick mention also brings to mind what might be CK’s future if Prince #3 did wish to make real his joke of her being his consort. It is unlikely she’d ever be accepted in the palace as anything other than a concubine, since she lacks noble status.
Kalimera Ladies!
@Packmule3 you were right!
It is Chuseok tomorrow, so no new episodes this week.
Finally I can join you in watching and commenting on LOTRS! I managed to marathon all the 6 episodes and I like the story very much.
The painting contest was very fascinating, especially the interpretations and the evaluating process which gave me lots to think of abt how different the art traditions in West and East are.
The part involving the demons and deities and their influence on royals and peoples’ lives was quite convoluted but luckily I had managed to read some of the threads here on BOD which prepared me for that.
I like also that the usual love triangle seems to be less dramatic. I think the 3rd prince already sensed that there is something going on between Ha Ram and Cheon-gi so I hope, although smitten by her, he is going to support their relationship instead of trying to separate them at some point (I don’t know abt the revenge part bc Ha Ram and the prince are friends now but what will happen when the prince learns abt Ha Ram’s plan and has to pick sides?).
The 2nd prince seems to be a great villain – as well as the actors’ appearance and performance is great so far, although he’s only plotting for now.
As to the male lead, I saw some criticism, but for me he is really doing quite well. I can only refer to one of his prevoius projects that I’ve seen. It was a simple and fluffy modern college romance (he was ok there but the role didn’t required so much nuance). But in the LOTRS he has a totally different aura so I’m positively surprised. IMHO at least, it’s not like he doesn’t suit the sageuk genre which I was most afraid of when I first saw the casting news. I’m glad he took this challenge to improve his skills and try something new, probably aware of the criticism that he may meet.
As to the bushy eyebrows LOL, well, surely he would look better with another styling but I thought that bushy eyebrows, in contrast to lets say the 3rd prince’s mild and boyish appareance, are supposed to add some meaning to the ML’s characterisation, ie. his (now) dark and ambigous nature, hidden motifs and so on. I think it would be weird for this kind of character to have a flower boy appareance.