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lol. This sidekick speaks the truth, but it’s crude the way he says it.
Let’s enjoy the show!
57 Comments On “Red Sleeve: Ep 11 and 12 Open Thread”
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The thread is now open.
lol. This sidekick speaks the truth, but it’s crude the way he says it.
Let’s enjoy the show!
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Thanks @pkml3. This thread is up super early.
Thanks to @grace who gave us the link to this other blog that subs clips and BTS, here’s a sneak peak into tonight’s episode 11.
https://jlml718.home.blog/2021/12/17/eng-sub-2pm-junho-the-red-sleeve-episode-11-sneak-peek/
Thank you pk3. The sidekick definitely is jealous of the attention and care that the crownprince is showering Deok Im and he does not like it. Also, he is extremely aware that she is very capable of handling issues and has a lot of talent in par with him or even better. Also, the sidekick is an attention seeker and wants to be recognized for any thing that he does, like going to get the army when they needed it. he wants to get all the information from the court ladies, but does not disclose anything to DeokIm.
SO looking forward – here’ is the wonderful Whee-in singing one of the best OST songs… in anticipation!
Thanks @Kate. I enjoyed listening to that OST. Yes, I’m waiting for the Show but I may not get it with subs for another 4 hours.
@GB – yes me too. I hope you enjoy it. I’m in the UK and it’s a bit of a wait. May be tomorrow before I can see it. I have to say that it is spoiling me for other shows!
Kalispera everyone! Thank you @Packmule3!
I hope you are ready for this! The way he said was awful indeed!
@Kate, I recall we (a bunch of us viewers) used to say ‘Healer’ spoiled us for other shows too. No other show would do for a rather long time.
@GB – you are making me want to watch Healer again! Perhaps I’ll wait though. I don’t know about you but I find it hard to cross ‘mood zones’ when i am really caught up in a drama.
I also loved Vincenzo recently and lost my taste for other shows for a while.
@angelwings – you have summed up ‘sidekick’ beautifully. In fact I am surprised how overt he is about his motivation given his strategic skills and intelligence. I think he was stung to see the CP with Di in his arms and blurted things out!
Seriously, Yi San’s Grandpa? Are you out of your mind?
@Cleo IKR. We see the great danger of having in high office, someone with such great insecurities and an unsound mind, and no way for anyone to counteract his orders when he goes beserk. So far King does so in his own palace and his bad decisions have not overtly spilled over to the common people, but he really needs checking.
I was thinking how in our time we have in theory this concept of governance…. not that it’s implemented all that well. “In nutshell, Good Governance entails effective participation in public policy-making, the prevalence of the rule of law and an independent judiciary, besides a system of institutional checks & balances through horizontal and vertical separation of powers, and effective oversight agencies.” From https://highcourtchd.gov.in/sub_pages/left_menu/publish/articles/articles_pdf/goodgovernance.pdf
It’s never a good idea that one deluded person’s commands determine the fate of others.
What is lacking in this King’s process is proper investigation. It’s amazing to me that no one traces back how the food got onto the tray and by whose orders. How is deciding in advance to blame a particular someone ever a guarantee that you’ve got the right culprit out of the way.
What an excellent tension-filled episode! (Ep. 11)
Well said @SnowFlower and @GB. I would put him into a territory called the “Mad King”. He forgets all the love he has for San and just trusts the ministers and court lady who come and complement him with out a second thought. He was suspected of killing his brother which has adversely affected his morale and is devoid of self esteem. Without his father or anyone else to support him and having to deal with a lot of court issues as a young person, must have been extremely difficult of him. Next he had to deal with his son having mental issues and having a father like him, it would certainly not been easy for his son Prince Sado. He would have passed on his abusive behavior to his grand son too, punishing him as and when he pleased or when some one brought in lies and tattles to him – as I would not be surprised if his grandson carries on his legacy. It would take a great deal of political correctness to live in such a time period. What an awful family. I would think death would be better than living in such an environment.
The king is supposedly the smart person in the room. How could he not have thought about who else could have sabotaged his food. Why would he think it would be the daughter-in-law? Is it because he loves his children and hate others ? the crown prince – in order to protect his mother snatched the iron rod. The king did not seem to be a smart person but an idiot. How could one tell from the looks?
Anyway, hope ep 12 will be a relief after this tension filled episode.
According to Soompi the CP becomes king tomorrow or today depending on your time zone! All hail King Junho!
LOL @Good Twin, we want to crown Jun Ho and not necessarily Yi San, don’t we? Yes… I’d like Jun Ho to get a whole bunch of awards. I felt for his Yi San all the way. He had to act all the myriad emotions without another actor opposite him, for that scene where he imagined Deok Im was with him in his lonely throne room.
@angelwingssf As far as we can tell, San did not behave like his grandfather or father. At least in the area of kingship, his reign saw reforms and progress, even enabling capable people from lower classes to gain government positions.
It seems though, that King Yeongjo had a great chip on his shoulder over any doubt of his and Yi San’s legitimacy to rule. This Show portrays him as one who over-reacts over the slightest slur or suspicion, to the extent that he fails to see the real issue, the danger Yi San is in.
I tended to agree with Deok Ro, the Royal Physician and Bodyguard, that it was time to take the King at his word and to do the difficult job of removing the King before he caused irretrievable damage.
It seems from this Show, that at times the King was more himself and could see the danger he posed. At those times he should have put down in writing a proper procedure to enable his own peaceful removal from the throne.
I just saw the likely answer to the riddle of where the Document of Truth is hidden. However, I’ll not post it yet until more have watched Ep 11.
Wow! What an episode!
***Guess of the location of the letter starts ***
I’m guessing the day (interpreted as sun), moon, 5 mountains is the description for the screen behind the king in the Royal court? Would that be where the letter is hidden?
**** Guess of the location of the letter ends ***
San’s character is a decent person. I thought what he said about the King was very touching. And yet that’s the King’s response?!
The only good thing is the king is not entirely foolish, he can see through HDR. He is a polarising character.
How did Wol Hye manage to steal the names of that secret club? Who is the insider there?
DI’s explanation of refusing to be the concubine – We have guessed it all along but we hear it first hand this round. She is under no illusion. She is not fooled by the title, nice food, nice clothes or adoration from Junho (Ah I mean San). She does not want to share her husband.
However she is so desperate when Crown Prince is in danger. She has very little that she can do to help the Crown Prince. That’s the point of this love story. What makes her change her mind to knowingly share? My guess is
1.San is a great person. He has great inspiration for giving people a better nation. Even in this episode, he is brave to take the blame. He shows mercy to his unreasonable grandfather. In DI’s eyes, he clearly is the right person to lead the nation. However he got a lot of enemies. DI really wants to help him to implement his visions.
2.She probably exhausts all the avenues as a court lady to help and protect San. To effectively protect the San, she can’t have the likes of HDR blocking her to even see San. Loving from a distance doesn’t work. She needs more influence.
Let’s see how the rest of the episodes can convince her. Also, how would they deal with the inevitable that San will need to choose someone other than her to be the Queen?
@Good Twin @GB lol 😀 All hail King Junho!
@Viva That guess is a good and likely the right one. Were you able to see the 5 mountains? I couldn’t make them out.
Ah yes, reasonable fans of Jun Ho, unite to applaud his enthronement LOL.
@GB to be fair they blocked it with the King’s chair around timestamp and 58.32. However the sun and moon can be seen. I think I saw the mountain in another drama (Moon Embracing the Sun) I am guessing it may be the standard setting of a royal Court.
Yes lol 😂
Lol @GB I’m one of those very reasonable fans of Junho😛… as once again Junho’s emotionally restrained acting in that scene where Deok Ro was inciting him to revolt is so powerful**All hail King Junho..err King Yi San**🙏🙏🙏
I really liked the actor (forgot his name) playing Deok Ro’s acting in that scene too. How he hits his fist ineffectually on the ground because in spite of being power hungry, he can’t do anything till Yi San consents. That scene showed his anger at his powerlessness so well.
I think the show juxtaposes very well Deok Ro and Deok Im as two service/non-royal class confidants in Yi San’s inner circle – how both feel powerless to help Yi San but how their motivations and basic ethics on how to help him are completely different.
I am also not very sure if Deok Ro is acting out of his own motivation to gain more power by becoming the future king’s right hand man or is a spy planted by the enemy camp who was deliberately trying to gain Yi San’s trust while waiting to leak his secrets to rival clan. That may just be a theory of mine but who knows..only future episodes will tell..
Spoiler: Saw the preview snippet (I think of the 13 the episode). Jun-ho is wearing the King’s robes. Here is a link to it on twitter. https://twitter.com/mbcdrama_pre/status/1472119441676648449
I just saw episode 12 and he does become king. Another happening, tense episode. There is a time jump of three years too.
Yes @angelwingssf @Phoenix, Episode 12 was a great watershed episode. I like that Show did not immediately cut to San on the throne, after that amazing, dramatic, denouement of Yeongjo’s reign (it was everything one would hope for in a public, cathartic handover of power), but that it gave time for a fitting farewell, and a fitting grieving and acceptance of the new state of things.
We see that there are changes in the palace as well as among the court ladies, and that the country is at peace. The ground has been laid so that 3 years after settling the most urgent state matters, San can turn attention to his personal life.
In the area of their romance, so much rests on Deok Im’s response to his request. I thought it was the sweetest thing that he minced no words, and confirmed his intentions when he told DI: “I want to make a family with you.”
I felt the full weight of the burden of office when San sits alone in the throne room and vows to himself that he won’t hide or run away, but from then on everything would be his responsibility. What a crushing weight on the shoulders of a young man. Kudos to Show for the music and the camera work as it zoomed out from San. How terrible and lonely.
@GB, @phoneix, I saw the preview of 13 on twitter at that time and had not seen episode 12 yet. I loved episode 12. The interaction with his grandfather was so beautifully done by both Junho and the grandfather, I could feel like I was in there with them.
I could not understand why the court lady ran in and held DI down to not speak to the king – is it that she was also aware of the Document of truth that the king had hidden and that she did not want it to be revealed. Is that so?
What was the significance of the kings’s burnt robe in Court lady Jo’s palace on the steps of her throne? I think the roll she burnt was the list of ladies who had signed up or made to follow her. What a jealous creature she turned out to be. It felt like I was watching fatal attraction. She killed herself and wanted genuine tears from the King. Why would she not live somewhere far away and just be. Did she want to make the King feel sorry for not choosing her too to be the concubine? I really could not understand her.
It was just act by San with Jung (?) the royal secretary who was Princess Hwawan ‘s adopted son. I would have also loved if he would have sent the princess to one of the temples and to become a monk and repent for all the havoc she caused.
@GB – as you said, I loved how they did not rush the death of the old king or San taking on the role of King. As you said, it was a fitting farewell. It felt right that he mourned for the late King for 3 years. But governing with other people – you can see how those responsibility has weighed him down.
Would DI accept to be his concubine? In the preview I see girls coming in signaling his betrothal to one or multiple girls. I think one of them is DR ‘s sister. I don’t think that DI would accept this time and will still be a court lady. I wonder what would change her mind to become one.
Good to read all of your comments and thank you for making it more enjoyable than to just watch it and not be able to discuss with like minded people.
Just finished watching Episode 12 and I have to say, I am enjoying Seyoung’s acting more than I thought I would. Near the end of the episode, she looks so wornout. Gone was the DI that’s always cheerful around San. In the preview, DI said that she now feels suffocated when she’s around San, which is sadly ironic, since it’s the other way around for him. He feels most comfortable and at peace when he’s with her. I wonder what would make her agree to become his concubine.
@angelwingssf,
About the Head Court Lady Jo: I don’t think she knew about the Document of Truth, unless Ct Lady Park had been tortured into telling her about it, but I’d guess that if she knew of it, she might have slowly turned the palace upside down to look for it.
My guess is that she did not know exactly what Ct Lady Park was going to tell San that day when she kidnapped her. What she knew was that Deok Im was hiding and caring for old, Court Lady Park. She might have guessed that as DI was able to bring in the Queen herself, that Ct L Park must have revealed something that supported Prince Sado’s interests. Furthermore, her role as head of a secret organisation against the Crown Prince was likely to be revealed soon. She wanted to prevent anything from coming out through DI out of self-preservation.
However with the Queen there, it was unlikely that she’d have been able to prevail. The Queen as head of all court ladies could have just shut her up, I thought.
In any case, as Show would dramatically have it, HEAVEN spoke out loudly, LOL with those peals of thunder and dramatic lightning. It was a sign that heaven was condemning her actions and inciting the King’s memories. It was enough to distract her so that DI could go forward with her 3rd story to tell the King. Another story to jog his memory and to save a life. Each time either she or San was falsely accused before the King, she was in position to tell a story that changed their fate.
It was such a relief that the King remembered on his own, without further prompting. It gave greater validation to DI’s insistence that there was a Document of Truth which he had hidden.
About the royal robe – it was mentioned in the story of the fairies of Gwanghan Palace that the King had betrayed his servants by throwing off his ceremonial robe and running away to save himself. Worse, when he returned, he chastised them and chased them away. The King’s robe was a sign of his betrayal and the reason the ladies had grouped themselves as a secret organisation, to take care of themselves and to direct from behind the scenes, only individuals of their choosing, to become King.
Yes, I believe you’re right about the roll that was burnt: it held the names and hand prints of the ladies. Without the list of names, and if the court ladies kept silence and were loyal to each other, no one would know who was actually in the secret organisation.
Well as the saying goes… hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. She was the scorned woman who had waited faithfully, but who was ignored in the end. She probably preferred to die at her own hands than to wonder when she might get killed in the future (I’m sure she did a lot of harm with her assassins and there’d be revenge. She’d not be safe outside the palace.) Also it’s possible as you say that she wanted the King to cry real tears of regret over her, which he did.
About Royal Secretary Jung – He was exiled and his mother was spared. She was exiled too later. However history suggests that after some time he and even his mother (at age 70) might have been poisoned. I guess it was the usual court politics in play even after decades.
About DI’s refusal to be concubine – I’m wondering if the count of 3 times refusal to be concubine is counted only when she refuses San directly, or whether the times she refused Hd Ct Lady is to be counted as well. If we say that she refused twice already, and now San is asking her, then her refusal here will be her 3rd time. 🙂
Excellent anslysis, @GB, as usual. As @angelwingssf says, it’s so good to watch this together with you all here because sometimes there are clues that I have missed and when someone here points them out, they immediately make sense.
Show hasn’t yet mentioned any of King Jeongjo’s other consorts, maybe because the novel it is based on focuses on the romance with Deok Im and also because I read that the king clearly was interested only in one concubine, Deok Im, as per history.
By the way, I think the back story of the Head Court Lady and the old king was a sort of lesson on what a relationship between king and court lady should not become and what the consequences of the rejection and bitterness might be. Remember that fishing scene between San and his grandfather where San mentioned to himself that he is not like his grandfather and he will not make the same mistakes. He may have meant that he will not use and discard a court lady he loved just because he needed emotional support at some point, without giving her official recognition, which Kimg Yeongjo never did with the Head Court Lady.
@Phoenix, Thanks for your kind words. 🙂
Yes, I believe you’re right about the parallels to be drawn from King and Hd Ct Lady Jo’s relationship. San did not want to love in the way his grandfather had done.
This Show has decided to not mention any of the other wives and concubines, thus far, but maybe we’ll hear of them in the future, since San is established as King and needs to produce an official heir and a standby heir as well, probably.
Seeing @Welmaris’ list of kings and their issue, and the high incidence of their premature deaths, it looks like the palace is not a safe place to be born into or to live in.
Kalimera everyone,
I wanted to say that Episodes 11 & 12 well so full of emotions between Yi San and his late Grandfather the King. Between Yi San and Deok Im.
I feel that Se Young is doing a great job to show us that Deok Im who loves so very much Yi San is burdened by this love and that shows to her face.
In the end of Episode 12 we saw that 3 years passed and how this changed our protagonists.
Not only Yi San as the King is inaccessible. Deok Im seems to long for him. This combination won’t be good to her health. She is burden by the fact she is in love with someone who shouldn’t love and that she misses him very much. She only watches him by far. They don’t spent time together as they used to and that is something has broken Deok Im.
Se Young is doing a perfect job. Those tears in her sad face. She has done a brilliant job and we have to recognize it.
I am not that sure this story will have a happy ending. We have already seen 12 episodes with snipnets of good times, but the politics are always present.
For all those who haven’t watched Episode’s 13 preview :
https://jlml718.home.blog/2021/12/19/eng-sub-2pm-junho-the-red-sleeve-episode-13-preview/
Catching up with you all soon after I finish episode 12! I would say there is no boring moment. The emotions and build up, plus the music, plus the acting works so well. The story telling is riveting and exciting. Really deserving of a 12+% ratings.
I also thought with @GB that San should take the throne before the king is not mentally sound to be able to. I did not understand why San was so upset about that till I realised that San came from a point of love for his grandfather and not of taking over the power. It really makes San a respectable character.
I felt chief court lady and the old King story is a contrast to San and DI.
1 Chief Court lady helped the old King to the throne, wanting to be his concubine. DI also helped San to ascend to the throne but she doesn’t want to be the concubine.
2 Chief Court lady’s idea of happiness is to become a concubine. DI’s idea of happiness is not to share her husband. She doesn’t want to be a concubine.
At the end, all Chief Court lady had of the King is his regretful tears. The old King’s guilt probably is the final blow to his failing health. Is that how a court lady love for the King end up with?
After San become the king, have you noticed they are not so playful anymore? Especially in the preview 13. San’s eyes are colder.
My favourite scene is the medicine drinking part. The scene is oddly intimate. When feeding him the sugar coated ginger, I noticed DI’s fingers crossed San’s lip. Is this part of the court lady job description? Lol. Afterwards I think San bit his lip. The relationship between his court lady and the King is always so odd. The intimate level is like a couple, but yet they are not.
Lovely to be able to chat with you all on this! It’s getting late here, I will read and share more later. Ep 12 is so full of emotions, more on the loss and regrets side.
Deok Mi is growing on me, first two episodes she looks like a deer caught in the spotlights with her eyes wide open and if the drama is following history it will a sad ending indeed.
Thank you @GB, @phoenix, @viva, @grace et all for clarifying a lot of stuff I just glossed over. Will go back and check it out especially about the fairies. To me it felt demeaning (looking for a better word here…) when the King’s robe was thrown on the ground like how they showed. The king is nothing without the robe. The robe is what gives the person the title and the honor at the top of the pedestal.
You were all right as to how LSY did a great job at the end of the episode. The weight of being a court lady along with not being able to be with him would be traumatizing for her. Even though she does not want to share him with others, she might have no choice as that might be the only way to spend time with him.
Is his bad boy attitude of episode 9 coming back again?
Phew! Episode 12 would be the Enthronement episode. So many meaningful scenes, even the scene with Princess Hwawan and her son was so sad…Her son, the Royal secretary was not really a bad character except that he was working under his mother, his filial piety towards his adopted mother was tear jerking.
I feel the heavy weight of Yisan’s responsibility on his shoulders. It is arduous task. I loved the scene where he says he is the sky. I have not watched many Saeguk dramas but this really brought me to understand the heavy responsibility of a king towards his people. It is not a desirable position even though there is power.
What is the purpose of Gwanghan palace in protecting themselves when they no longer served with a pure heart? They sounded like they do not want to serve the current king. They that the palace cannot do without them, but I do not see how they were mistreated other than in YiSeon (Yisan’s father killing courtmaids and mistreating them). Did they buy in the belief that Yisan will be like that because his father was like that? By getting rid of Yisan, what benefit will they have?
Junho is shining in this episode. That kingly walk into the palace was beautifully filmed. Of course Junho held that walking pose so well.
Btw it is LeeSeYoung’s birthday today! 😀
She has been acting since 1997 :O that is like 25 years already?!!?
More contrast of the story between the old King/the chief court lady and San/DI:
3. Old King promised her to marry her, but he didn’t go ahead after being the King. Old King betrayed her. San hinted he will marry her at the right time in the garden, he did offer after being the King. San sticks to his word.
4. The last scene when chief court lady was alive – Old King and her both turned their back to each other on the screen. I thought there is a lot of sadness, guilt and regrets there. Not only literally they have turned their back on each other. Emotionally they have, until the very last moment of her life. Compare to the last scene in the ep 12, San wanted her to be the family and they are facing each other. He gave her a small assertive nod.
Agree @GB, the ending line saying he wants to be his family is quite something. DI is emotionless about the concubine offer. However, her face shows she is quite moved when hearing the word family. Will that thought lingering in her mind and eventually move her?
Looking at their faces, they have come a long way. Remember their faces when they were bickering over the letter of apology? He ran to her when seeing her married woman hair do? DI is so quiet now. San is too busy.
Where is HDR? What are factions? San talks like a King in the conversations. He has 4 new faces. Judging from their conversations, San is still quite well balanced, and his new team also seems sensible.
A quick search on factions:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_factions_in_Joseon_dynasty
@angelwingssf Has San turned into a bad boy again in ep 13? I guess it is part of him? That’s what he does when he can’t refrain himself from his longing to DI? I wonder if they will just troll us. I felt San’s character would do what is respectable at the time so I tend to think he will not do anything reckless.
@Cleo, poor DI. She is in the same room waiting from afar, until her hand is shaking holding the medicine for too long. Is loving from a far have a different take now?
Regardless of motives, pure hearted (DI) or self-interested (chief court lady) the drama makes me feel it is tragic for a court lady to love a king. Yet, they are still drawn to it. The cycles would keep going because of the intimate interactions between the court ladies and their masters. The very fine line is too delicate to draw between lovers, masters and servants.
I am giving my 2021 award for Best Supporting Actor to Lee Deok Hwa without any reservations.
I love this drama because of the self-controlled, and the restraint affection between the two lead actors. But episode 11 and episode 12 are a little bit too emotional and the tempo is too slow for me. Both the acting of the old king and the chief court lady are amazing, but still, it was too emotional and exhausting. Am I the only one feeling this way ?
@Kuroshio, although I didn’t find it too exhausting, I did feel the emotions quite strongly. I did also find it a bit slow, but then that’s because I’m most invested in the OTP romance and not in the palace intrigue LOL.
The episode did – to its credit- still manage to give us 2 OTP moments (one was a memory and the other a current moment) so that we were not left high and dry with nothing sweet and romantic at all. 🙂
@GB 👋🏻 I thought I wanted to complain that we didn’t get a lot of OTP scenes for the two episodes but those two were actually enough. When they get together their emotions/connections are there and I really wonder how long can DI say no to King YS.
Hello there my dear @agdr03!! Yes, I was in 2 minds about the lack of OTP sweetness scenes, but I rewatched and found that they weighty with the strength of their regard for each other, and were sufficient to slake the thirst LOL.
@Viva I forgot that I wanted to reply to you about your point 4)… Yes, that was a lovely counterpoint, where San and DI faced each other to consider if they could have a future together, compared to how the King and High Ct Lady had their backs to each other and no more future to anticipate. It was literally turning their backs on each other in rejection.
@Snow Flower – I could not agree more re best supporting actor for the Grandfather King – a powerful, nuanced performance. Without his performance as one of the main drivers – this would not be the same show.
@agdr03 @GB yes agree. I would love to see them more but also found it sufficient to keep it going. When I rethink about the episodes, I thought the emotional exchange between the grandfather and grandson helps shape the character growth of San later on. It makes me “know” San more. The weight of the country, the many lives he will take. How would that sit on one’s conscience? One thing is someone else’s decision, it is their fault. Another thing is your turn to make the decision.
Also I found there is a hollowing sadness between Old King and Chief Court lady which they beautifully act out. I find the fairies palace plot a little stretched, but their heartfelt honest exchange, which @GB beautifully sum up offsets it.
@Kate @Snow Flower. Agree. I dislike the grandfather on his irrational treatments, emotional and physical abuses to people around. However, when I saw he was confused, broke down and admitting his faults makes me forgive him a bit. Hands down Junho does a brilliant job (his face when he noticed grandfather thought he was Sado!) but so does the entire cast like Se Young, Old King and Chief Court Lady etc! Even the princess and her adopted son give us a softer side and make them a little more human. The cast, with their rather natural performance makes me know that they are just human who are not 100%, but just made many very bad choices when they have power and chances to cover it. They are not corrected and swayed by bad influence out of their weak spots, like insecurities, desires to be loved when fighting for survival in the palace.
@Viva, I also find the fairies palace plot a bit stretched. But re-reading what @GB wrote on how they want to be able to choose their own king whom they think will rule well gives us a hint of people’s desire for a democratic society through these women. Of course, this one had a lot of schemes to ensure their plan worked.
I was rewatching episode 2 and the part where DI eavesdropped on Crown Prince’s lesson from the “Extended Meaning of the Greater Learning”. San answered a handful of questions about his role as a Crown Prince, I type here:
San: Supporting people is the highest priority. Nothing is more urgent than supporting people in terms of governing a country.
Teacher: This phrase from “Extended Meaning of the Greater Learning” is the virtue you must keep in mind for the rest of your life.
San: I will keep that in mind.
T: Have you ever wanted to be a commoner instead of being the Crown Prince?
S: Never.
T: Has your Crown Prince title ever felt heavy?
S: How could I complain when I was destined? I was born as the Crown Prince and read as many great books as I want. I can also order around many talented people. The fact that I can use my talent solely for this country is worth more than anything.
T: Still, is it not tiring?
S: There are people who are starving. How could I possibly complain? If I complain when I can have precious food in silk clothes, I am not different from a shameless petty man.
T: That is a wonderful answer, Your Highness.
S: The sky has commanded me and I will eventually be in charge of this country’s fate. I shall never hide or run away from my destiny.
This scene is ties in with Episode 11 & 12 we saw over the weekend because it is all about who Yisan is meant to be, the next king. And despite many people trying to take him down, having the Document of Truth, (in addition to the lighting and thunder boom when finding the document was resisted), it all points to Yisan being the rightful king.
I’m reading up on the Five peaks screens and suddenly I’m also realizing how important that scene is too, from the mystery of the words, to his father’s involvement in having the king write that document of truth to hid in the screens.
Notice that it was hidden under or near the red sun. The red sun represents the king and the white moon represents the queen.
I am a little super wowed now how this is all connected so well together. Discovering a little bit of history and how they are manifesting it in a drama is really very exciting for me.
@Grace thank for writing the conversation down. If I recall correctly San said he is the sky in ep 12 and that links back to what you said above.
Think about it, San and DI’s love story also starts when the love story between San’s grandmother and old King ends. They seem carefully lay down openings and let us discover the closings as the drama progress.
I think this is a drama worth rewatching so we can appreciate its connection. 🙂
@Viva @Grace and Everyone,
Yes, as you have said. This Show is thoughtfully made so that if we choose to, we can find the symbolism.
Thanks for giving us San’s words @Viva about how San believed he was mandated by heaven
It’s so apt that San believed “The sky has commanded me…” and at the crucial moment, the sky actually does make a loud noise to affirm his legitimacy as king. He becomes the ‘Sky’ for his subjects, but at the same time ‘the almighty/heaven’ has spoken.
This is similar to the European concept that the right to rule is given by God.
“In European Christianity, the divine right of kings, divine right, or God’s mandation is a political and religious doctrine of political legitimacy of a monarchy. It stems from a specific metaphysical framework in which a monarch is, before birth, pre-ordained to inherit the crown. According to this theory of political legitimacy, the subjects of the crown have actively (and not merely passively) turned over the metaphysical selection of the king’s soul – which will inhabit the body and rule them – to God. In this way, the “divine right” originates as a metaphysical act of humility and/or submission towards God.” From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_right_of_kings
I like that Show displays how full of integrity San is. He says he shall “never hide or run away” at his lessons, which pleases his teachers, but it does not stop there. Upon the death of his grandfather, he shows reverence for the office of the throne by bowing towards it, and taking the throne himself, he repeats those same words, when there is no one to hear him. It was a sincere promise he made to himself and to ‘heaven’.
Thanks Grace for pointing out how one love story ends before the other begins. It’s like Show gives us the resolution of one, so that we get closure, before opening up the next scenes of push-pull that will take place.
Show does the same by resolving the main controversies hanging over San’s kingship, before we embark on a different set of challenges.
Aside from the Hd Ct Lady intrigue, the Queen is shown to be reasonable. Although as San says, she’ll not do anything without it benefiting herself as well, she’s not out to do anything illegitimate or unlawful. Now that she’s stood up for San, she’s gained herself approval, ratified her position and has some influence over San who will always be grateful towards her. She will not be seen as only the Dowager Queen who embroiders quietly in her chambers.
The Princess Hwawan saga is also partially or completely ended. And I guess the ex-Second State Councillor will soon be despatched. Then there’s Deok Ro who may or may not continue in San’s favour.
If we’re interested to watch more shows based on Korean history, besides @Welmaris’ great list, I saw that The Talking Cupboard has an extensive timeline of Korean rulers into Independence and she lists the Shows that cover each year or period. https://thetalkingcupboard.com/resources/sageuk-timeline. My mind boggles at the number of shows there are!
🙂
Sorry, I meant thanks for San’s words, @grace. 😖 😬
@Viva, @Grace, @GB … also finding the court fairies plot a bit far-fetched and your discussion above was helpful – about what it symbolised.
And of course we keep getting the court lady and the woman’s perspective so powerfully represented in this story – from Sidekick’s diminishing of Di to her fear of growing old as a Concubine and experiencing the fragility of a woman’s value at that time – to the struggles of the various royal women.
The grandfather king’s betrayal of the senior court lady – because he recognises her strength and cannot relax with her – her strength leading to her rejection ultimately – is another facet of this.
Just rambling here but this drama is rich in things to reflect upon!
Hi @Kate, ramble away!!
Hi back @GB – thanks for your encouragement!
@pkml3 Please open a thread for tonight’s or this weekend’s Episodes… Would that be Episodes 13-15? I’m getting excited.
Here are the funny BTS, fully subbed, up to Episode 12. It’s amazing how the actors can ham it up BTS but be fully in the emotion during the shoots.
https://jlml718.home.blog/2021/12/24/eng-sub-2pm-junho-the-red-sleeve-episode-11-12-behind-c/
Many thanks to jlml718 for subbing and sharing!!
The lines in ep 14 that link back to @Grace’s post above from ep 1 to 2:
King Yeongjo: some day when you sit on that throne, you will truly understand me.
San: Now, my sky has fallen, and I have become the new sky. I am so scared that I can hardly breathe. Still, I will never hide or run. From now on, everything is my responsibility.
@Kate, yes and sadly, that’s how fickle a King’s affection/attention is, and the sadness is always the imbalance position of the court lady.
@GB thanks for posting the link 🙂 Watching jlml718 subbed BTS, at around timestamp 8:35, Se Young commented, if you give everything, you’ll want everything from that person, too. His Mastery cannot do that. Even as much as San loves DI, it is always imbalance like that.
Merry Christmas @pm3 @GB, @angelwingssf @ Good Twin @Kate @Cleo @Snow Flower @Phoenix @goldenashes97 @AhjummaF4 @Kuroshio @agdr03 and everyone else! I may not be able to watch these important episodes right away as it will be Christmas day for me when it is available. I will join you as soon as I can find a gap!
Merry Christmas @Viva!
Here’s a Christmas gift for fans of Junho. This is the BTS of his shoot for the ad for L’OCCITANE.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx07WPyOgww Yes, he looks nice in red.
Kalimera and Hronia Polla!
Merry Christmas to @Packmule3 and to all the B.O.D.’ers!!!
Merry Christmas @Viva! No worries, we will watch and comment when we can!
Merry Christmas my @GB Unnie! <3
Hi @Cleo! Merry Christmas to you too!!
Junho has his own Vlog and posted the rehearsal for the fight scene. He did the action scenes rather well. His dance training together with his commitment to physical fitness makes his movements both quick and elegant.