The thread is now open for Ep 4 rewatch.
I’ve heard it said that people rewatch old shows, instead of watch new shows, because
a. they enjoy the predictability and
b. the task requires less effort on the brains.
But from what I’ve seen from @Growing_Beautifully, @WEnchanteur, @Cleopatra, @Welmaris, @Janey, @Fern, @FGB4877, and @Carolina, rewatching a kdrama entails a lot of work and research because they want to appreciate the episode better by discovering new things that they previously missed.
Their rewatches are deep dives. 🙂
Option A: 14:00 UTC
10:00 am EST
07:00 am PST
10:00 pm Singapore, Philippines
09:00 pm Indonesia
04:00 pm Greece
04:00 pm Paris 03:00 pm Paris* Daylight Savings doesn’t start till tomorrow, March 27.
10:00 am Caracas
Enjoy the rewatch!
Gosh, @Packmule3, you got this thread up earlier than ever. You’re making me worried you’re doing it because 1) You expect to be swamped at work before Friday afternoon, 2) You’re going off grid because of a business trip, 3) Both 1 & 2. But rather than worrying, I should be impressed and grateful for your superior display of administrative function.
LOL @pkml3, thanks for the thread. Yes, I feel I work harder at rewatches. It all adds to the fun of course, especially getting so much in answers and insights from my fellow Watchers, to my many questions.
I’m taking it more easy with ‘W’ actually. For one thing, I don’t have the time to double, triple watch it and transcribe, and I always had an issue with the logic, so why confuse myself again… I’ll just let the inspiration hit if it does and ask for help when it doesn’t. Sounds like a real deal!! 😉 😆
In this episode…
Kang Chul’s incompetent security guard.
Two rather long dialogues, one of them very important.
Kang Chul making a sharp business decision that we rarely see.
Less comedy but events that precipitate things.
And a major event… that leaves you on your ass! The last 10 minutes of the episode are astronomical. When I first saw this, I was like… but this can’t be happening! This kind of stuff is supposed to happen at the end!!! Wahaa wahha, what is going on here?!!! It’s like the end of episode 15!!! With of course a lot of pleasure because it meant that the writer had such a huge package of stuff in reserve, that she could without problem accelerate like crazy.
First dialogue: 7 minutes and a half.
It says a lot about Kang Chul’s progress in his investigation, his outstanding intelligence and the way he suspects every detail. The monotony is broken by various lines, and of course a lot of flashbacks. Although referring to past events, most of the flashbacks reveal new things (new scenes). It’s exciting in the “smart” sense. Very useful for the audience a little lost in the story, and very pleasant for those who have understood more or less what is going on. Indeed, every little detail has been taken into account with logic, in the past events. Once again, one feels in good hands. I was just thinking… yeah, I did fall into one of the best series of all time! My new darling, after years and years.
Second dialogue: 8 minutes. It sounds short, but it is long. At least in a drama like W.
Here, no artifice used to disperse the attention. On the contrary, there is a clear will to stay on the characters, in order to increase the pressure. It is tense. As the denouement cannot take place easily, it passes by convolutions. A lot of ideas so that the audience can accept the conclusion of the dialogue. And is therefore riveted on the dialogue, by the suspense … so? so? so?
In the script, the episode stops at the end of this dialogue, this indicates how important it is! With more screen time, we could also use another important event a little later. For the drama, it wasn’t late enough, and the cliffhanger goes for another important event. I couldn’t say which was the better choice. I tend to prefer the cliffhanger of the drama over the cliffhanger of the script although it’s impossible to say which is better. Except that it was nice to respect the vision of the writer, but impossible for production reasons. What makes me prefer this is just that the drama cliffhanger would fall in the middle of the next episode instead. W is very handy for cliffhangers, you can easily find a scene that can serve that purpose every ten minutes if not more.
@Pm3, you’re hearing weird things. I don’t want to know who is telling you! ^^
There are many reasons, the most important of all for the general public is probably… the magic!!! The magic, the emotion, the feeling of being at home, the love of the characters and the story. It’s like children: when a child loves a story, he wants to be told the same one every evening.
Otherwise, there’s the reason you give, and also, the analysis… how it’s done, why it’s so good. Very useful if you write yourself. It is better in this case to focus on specific works rather than to disperse. This is in order to do an efficient and in-depth work.
And also, for directors or just audience loving cinema, how good are the scenes, we never get tired of it. When we like a song, we listen to it regularly, right? A painting, we can look at it often. It’s the same for the cinema. There is the art in action, the shots, the direction, the atmosphere, the aesthetics, the spectacular, the actors, the quality of the dialogues, etc.
@GB, You found the right deal!! Just enjoy, that’s all. It looks like you’re working instead of having fun. When I comment, you think I’m working? ahah, at least not on W. Not really it was on Sisyphus either. But on some dramas, yeah, I also felt like I was working instead of having fun, when I wanted to force myself to rewatch the episode to take notes, especially if the drama wasn’t really what I liked.
There are dramas where I wouldn’t have liked to comment every week. Like Flower of Evil. I really liked this drama, but I was happy to binge-watch it without trying to analyze everything. Except of course what jumps out at me, but without trying too hard. I say it many times, I don’t want analyze anything when I watch a drama, just an ordinary spectator who is there to enjoy it. What I get is just because I use to spot many things naturally.
And then, on W, it’s not like you’re all alone to have to think about everything. Let it go, Welmaris gives detailed comments, I write down a few things quickly during the rewatch, and then some more complete comments before, or after to figure out all the questions. I’m just avoiding spoilers for people whose first watch it is… But everything will be clarified at the right time. I have very few blind spots on this drama. almost none.
LOL thanks @WE! Your post is very comforting. I’ll just sit back and enjoy watching like a normal viewer and keep asking my questions. You can let me know if the answer will come up later so we don’t post spoilers. 🙂
Hello. This is my first time posting on this thread or any. I googled “poetry in I’ll go to you when the Weather is Nice” and came across this site. I have been utterly consumed by Korean and Chinese dramas for the last two years with no one who will listen to me discuss them (at least not more than once), so imagine my pleasure at finding this site. And I had been contemplating re-watching ‘W’ (or ‘Dr. Stranger’ for the third or is it the fourth? time). So I jumped in and have been listening in, as it were, reading the prior posts and watching episode 3 at the same time as you all last week. I have been fascinated this run through with the nature of time. Especially with watching the nature of time and of reality play out in the drama – the little hints of some larger theme- much of which you have touched on already. Even to the point of taking home a book from the library today solely because I opened a page and the ‘mathematics of time’ popped out at me. I even dashed off paragraphs in the last couple of days, thinking aloud. But as is no surprise, I couldn’t help myself and I watched further ahead than episode 4 so I will wait until tomorrow to post anything further just in case I wrote of something that happened in this coming episode (or even a later one). Assuming I am brave enough in this august company.
Hi @salteddust, welcome to Bitchesoverdramas and to this thread. You’re welcome to join us for the rewatch later today/tonight. (The rewatch party will start in 9.5 hours!!!) All you have to do is keep to the guidelines set out in the link below, and you’ll be fine. 🙂
https://bitchesoverdramas.com/welcome/
I won’t be able to join you tomorrow! Enjoy this episode and will catch up with everyone later. Cheers!
OK @Janey! Read you later!
(7 hours and counting!)
Hello salteddust. So you were among those people reading the blog and all of a sudden… a hand grabbed you… and now you are…. IN THE BLOG!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂
I’m not sure about your sentence… you’ve watched W three or four times already?!
About the nature of time, or reality, without saying too much to avoid a spoiler… we have here a concept that is more in line with a series like “Twilight Zone”. The concept is absurd, but its developments are applied logically. It is a bit different from high-concept like for example the well known movie “Inception”, which can be considered as scientifically possible (but very unlikely). Or at least the scriptwriter is able to provide an explanation to make it plausible. I place the dividing line on the fact that nothing can explain the concept of W. There are disappointed spectators because at the end, they have not been told how it was possible. We just know how it happened, without the origin and the why. But it’s impossible to answer that. And from the beginning of the drama… I knew that the script would not give any answer on that.
Here I put SPOILER!!! ————————–
(just for people who haven’t watched the whole drama yet).
…About nature of reality.
Here is an excerpt from my script W season 2, episode 52. It’s pretty badly written, in the sense that it’s unnecessary in a story to be heavy at explaining philosophy. Too much text, long line, poorly worded, need to check if it’s really fit Kang Chul voice, and mostly, is it exciting to have that in a drama or is it boring. The classic flaws of a first or second draft. Maybe it will stay like that or close, or not, no idea for now.
Someone learns how the concept of W works and asks this to Kang Chul, who is now severely grounded in this… The adventures of season 1 plus all the crazy new phenomena of season 2. (KCH = Kang Chul).
RSB – This is all absurd. Even though it all overlaps, I find it hard to believe.
KCH – The real world is also absurd.
KCH – We just try to reassure ourselves by stipulating it comes from a Big Bang.
KCH – But the question of the existential condition remains, and seems insoluble.
KCH – And why would this world have such well defined rules?
KCH – It’s the same for manhwa, except that the rules are of a different nature.
KCH – With experience, I have come to consider that this is no stranger…
I’m not sure Kang Chul would take the time to say that. The drama one probably wouldn’t. But here, it is a more humanized version, which has been confronted with an ordinary life and its inconveniences. This seems to me in his lexical register. He is a rational person, who thinks first of the context and its logic. He doesn’t bring in religious explanations, etc.
In the drama, all the characters go through a moment of disbelief when they learn the phenomenon “What? But such a thing is impossible?”. However, they don’t have much time to question why. And even in the case of Kang Chul, he is not interested in the why, but rather in the how, from the moment he accepted the situation. He already makes assumptions about a parallel world in episode 3. In episode 2, Soo-Bong is excited, asking why, how. And Yeon-Joo has already accepted quickly and is also wondering more how than why. She is a woman already very much immersed in the fiction, and the scene in episode 1 shows that she runs first. In the later discussions between Yeon-Joo and Kang Chul, I don’t remember them mentioning the “why.”
@WE @salteddust
Do I understand you to mean you’ve watched the other show with Lee Jong Suk, ‘Dr Stranger’ 3-4 times and ‘W’ is a first rewatch?
Episode 4 *SPOILER*
@WE
Me… I’m a disappointed viewer but I think we know why, ie the main character in his greatest moment of need reached out his hand…like a prayer… and dragged his ‘maker’ into his world to help him. We see this again in Ep 4… in his moment of need, the portal opens for him to enter the world of his ‘maker’.
However, Show never tells us how the manhwa are alive in a world of their own, when to Soo Bong and Sung Moo they were just drawings. Unless we make a leap and imagine that the ‘maker’ Oh Yeon Joo, loved Kang Chul so much, (as a fan who wanted him to have a happy ending) that he became real, and all his manhwa world with him.
Then by the same logic, there should be many other living manhwa characters in their own worlds as they are beloved by their makers.
If you liken the origin of the life in the world of W, to how our world began (Big Bang?) without a reason outside of faith of some kind, then the question becomes ‘why’. But since we have discussed the possible ‘whys’ without Writer SJJ ever confirming one thing or another, we’ll just go with ‘our guess is as good as any’.
While KC goes through his existential crisis, we too question our whys and hows.
Kalimera Everyone,
Something urgent came up and I might not be able to be online for our rewatch party!
If I don’t make it ! Have fun!
@GB, Ooops, that wasn’t clear.
When I say “Why”, it’s only about the primary explanation. The impossible side in the scientific sense. Of course, one can then ask several things, was the phenomenon facilitated by Yeon-Joo? Kang Chul? But I put all this in the “How”. This never gives the overarching explanation, which is by nature unknowable. Yes, it’s just a problem of term, whatever. That’s what I meant by that.
If I take your example, you place the first event when Kang Chul reaches out for help. But in reality, the phenomenon starts much earlier. The exact moment when it starts is when after losing his family, Oh Sung-Moo decides to commit suicide by proxy. And he uses Kang Chul to die in his place. Only… Kang Chul wants to live, and paradoxically, it is because he wants to live that he will also help Oh Sung-Moo to live too. Just the idea is great. It is this exact moment that triggers the metaphysical incident. Before that, Kang Chul does not exist as a being conscious of his own existence. We don’t even know if he is real somewhere, in another universe, or if this is still just a manhwa. Just as if we had no reflexive consciousness, we would be unable to know that the universe exists and that we exist… and maybe nothing exist. (See the following in the “SPOILER” section).
The first time I saw the drama, you can be sure of one thing… I understood even less than you !!! But since I noticed so many things that made sense, I just thought I missed things here and there, or didn’t really think about many things. Yes it’s true, zero thought, just…. I was so fascinated that I watched the drama again and again. And as I had identified the scenes explaining a bit what’s going on, I went to look closer in the subtitles.
I made mistakes in understanding until several rewatches. Things that I thought were weird. Even little things like at the beginning at the shooting competition. Kang Chul’s father gives him advice “focus”. Then afterwards, he panics “shoot! shoot!”. Only a good coach would never do that, he wouldn’t risk upsetting his shooter like that. Then one day, the evidence of the scene came to me… Of course, this is Oh Sung-Moo’s manhwa!!! He writes very badly. It’s normal for his story to have things that don’t make sense like that.
——————————- SPOILER!!! ——————————-
The drama has several such personality disassociations (we’ll see that in due course). Oh Sung-Moo loses his family and the drama emphasizes this, especially Oh Yeon-Joo (he thinks significantly less of his ex-wife)… who is involved in the inspiration of Kang Chul’s character. By a mirror effect reflecting the impacts, it is thus Oh Yeon-Joo who saves her father, through Kang Chul. And this also corresponds to the reality of Oh Sung-Moo. He doesn’t want to live anymore, but he still has to live for his daughter. And he will continue to sacrifice himself for her, as we will see later.
We can go on like this, and see how he acts in the classic way as a father who refuses to let his daughter date a man. The possessive side of the father who doesn’t want his daughter to become the adult woman (while precisely Yeon-Joo is partly immature). Or can he accept that his daughter stays in a fantasy world instead of growing up and meets an imaginary character. It’s impossible to know what he wants in this regard, but I may have missed something. It gets even more scabrous when you know that her future man comes from her father (Ouch!!), and a father wouldn’t want to marry his own daughter. It’s complicated and tied to a lot of issues like that. The daughter’s admiration for her father. The fact that a woman is looking for a part of her father in the man she’s going to find, etc. Except that if the character doesn’t come from him… he might accept it… but in this case, we still have something just as crazy… a girl crafting the man of her dreams. And not the real, independent man she’s supposed to meet. That’s why the story is going to play the dream romance part first, in the wonderful, fantasy world as it comes from her mind. And it all helps in the episodes, until the middle of episode 8. A lot of Yeon-Joo’s lines give this sense. You remind me of that when the time comes, I’ll underline those lines.
But in episode 8, Yeon-Joo understands that all this is a big mess and not what she wanted. Hence the very important situation at the end of episode 8… Kang Chul goes back two months and becomes a blank page again. No more fantasy romance… from then on, she has to meet the real man. This is I guess the reason (conscious or not) why the scriptwriter doesn’t invent a process to give him back his memory, or rather, to make him have a new dream he remembers. An event that could only take place at the beginning of episode 13, the only time when Yeon-Joo would have time to draw on the tablet.
As far as depth psychology is concerned, this drama is really crazy. It would take Karl Gustave Yung to be alive to tell us about that. And it’s not entirely intentional on the writer’s part. There are a lot of elements that pass through the filter of his consciousness and come raw into the story. Even an important scene in episode 6, after reading the script…I found that she gave another reason for the scene. If she had been aware of what she was doing, she would have explained the deeper meaning. Deep meaning…which gushed beautifully onto the screen thanks to the director, who perhaps saw that meaning, either consciously or instinctively.
As far as depth psychology or existential questions are concerned, this drama is really crazy. Karl Gustave Yung would have to be alive to tell us about this. And it’s not entirely intentional on the writer’s part. There are a lot of elements that pass through the filter of her consciousness and arrive raw in the story. Even an important scene in episode 6, after reading the script…I found that she gave another reason for the scene. If she had been aware of what she was doing, she would have explained the deeper meaning because she does it when she needs to. Deep meaning… that sprang beautifully to the screen thanks to the director, who perhaps saw this meaning, either consciously or instinctively, by adding to the scene a detail… a second mirror, so strange. And everything in the previous scenes contributes to this, it’s really strange that she didn’t write this clearly. I don’t know the truth, but that’s my guess here. It’s the kind of thing that is written, but you find the meaning after you write it.
As for how a manhwa becomes alive in a world, it is said in episode 12. But certainly that’s easy to miss, there’s maybe a line of dialogue or two on that.
And if there’s a translation problem, it’s even harder. As I use FR subtitles, I compared several versions on some scenes bringing explanations. And there, unfortunately, all the dialogues were different.
A brief note on waking. This will be my 2nd re-watch for this part of ‘W’. I watched it until somewhere in the middle and let it lay for so long I had to re-watch it to remember it, at which point I watched it all the way to the end. ‘Doctor Stranger’ I have watched 3-4 times and could easily watch again. I am a sucker for the hidden hero (King Arthur, the Gladiator, etc.). And for Lee Jong Suk’s smile…. Back in a bit.
@Cleo, ok and thanks. I hope you can clear the urgent stuff and still make it. If not, we’ll read you later! 🙂
Good morning!!
welcome @salteddust
came late cause of kiddos woke up early =)
oh wait i’m early LOL LOL
Yup @carolina, you’re early! Daylight Savings gets us confused!!
I just know I have to start at 10pm. That’s a bit more than half an hour from now!
Hi Carolina, and people I missed before, cleo, janey.
Coffee ready! I just stay here until it begin soon.
I’ll post later some key scenes so well rendered in the screenplay. And the feeling on the screen is the same, when the writer give mostly things we don’t see on the screen but related to the mood and the feeling of the character.
I made a small sleep, so wake up as you, saltddust.
When I was lying before… I got in a flash a whole scene with dialogs for Alien Surgeon (I don’t work on it currently and wasn’t expecting that). It’s such a pain to get this at that moment. I should have gets up and note all but I was so tired. It’s a small bit of the kind of hell it’s when being immersed in a story, and it happens everywhere everywhen. Just I was able to note that after waking up. But probably not with a so good flow, just the main ideas.
@WE, okay. I’ll remind you of it when we get to episode 8.
I’ve also been thinking of the Pygmallion effect in this show… that the maker falls in love with the ‘subject’ that she made. It sounds better than saying that she fell in love with something that came from her father LOL. The points you brought up are definitely interesting. Whether SJJ knew of the ramifications is a mystery.
This gives us a different framework through which to view the happenings in this Show.
@WE, often one’s best inspiration comes in the in-between times of sleeping and waking. It’s a real pain to record it before you forget LOL. Do what @pkml3 does… put on the recorder on your mobile phone and record yourself talking about it.
1 minute to go!
OK, it’s time! Let’s start!!!
Ready!!
Good morning, Watchers! I haven’t had time to read all the comments above, but hello to all who are here.
Starting now!
I also watch the “previously in…” ^^
NOW busan port.
Hiii welmaris. SO busan port scene, first of the 2 dialogs I mentioned before.
Not easy point to get here… the truck was in Seoul, but drived until it reach busan port and disapear here. It’s why instead to go to new york directly, kang Chul go to see his mentor, the only man he talk a lot about himself.
The voiceover recap is always useful.
Aside from her initial rendering of KC as a smart, good looking character, YJ didn’t actually place him in the role of a guy who was into romance. Since her dad treated the manhwa as am action story, KC does not even know what beauty in a woman is.
And all the clues are absurd… effect of the bad script of Oh Sung-moo who wanted only to kill Kang Chul in any absurd way without any reason in the script.
Then Kang Chul drops a word he like so much the… “context”!!
We get also the stabing scene, it hurt a lot to see that.
The unknow killer is used again by Oh Sung-moo to kill Kang Chul, after 10 years.
KC has a wonderful mind that can leap from the impossible to accept and understand to the right conclusions. He figures that YJ is from another ‘world’ and he sees that everything in his life is without context.
The stabbing was very savage. He should have died.
I am still preparing a “sancocho” for breakfast, how have you been? 😀
This long chat with mentor is long exposition, but does not feel so bad with all the flashbacks and because we needed to hear it.
I’m great @FGB! Have a good breakfast!
KC, with gun loaded, raised, and pointed at YJ: “I’m a person that can do this.”
I’m a person.
I can.
I can do THIS.
KC is declaring his existence, his ability, and his choice. He isn’t just a construct of someone else. He’s flesh and blood and can determine his own course of action whether or not it is right.
@GB yes, in some dramas we gets so called smart lead but don’t really see it so much. But here, this guy is amazing about how intelligent he is. Thanks to this scene, we know all he know about the situation, very far. Well not all, there is still mysteries, like “key of life”.
Appart that, we can see Yeon-Joo is also very smart in the story. So 2 smart lead, and they challenge a phenomenon so crazy difficult that they will fail often. It’s like the writer has always 2 step ahead, so she make react her character to their max potential first, then traps them in the plot-twists.
Hi FGB.
Now a romance comedy scene. Just the way Yeon-Joo take the phone. I will publish this scene because how she act is a creation of the actress when she does that, the script just say “hesitant” and here she’s rather “I try to get confidence”… making it more funny when she lose all confidence 3 seconds later.
Hi Everyone!!
@FGB sancocho mmmhh now i’m hungry =)
I’m trying to catch up on your comments. I went ahead a few episodes and i’m still confused as i was the first time.
“I love you”, another useless attempt to escape the world of W. But after that, Kang Chul reaction (with romantic background music)… Maybe it could work one more times.
Jump to Soo-Hee with the feeling the SFL will do a bad trick.
As is his character, KC makes all of the logical connections, even between the illogical events. …”Everything that happens to me has no logical connection.” ; “..it was just like back then, 10 years ago.” In some sense, KC ^is^ the plot thread.
Soo Hee love to drink wine in any circumstance. We could see in Kang Chul appartement, there is a whole wall with many wine bottle.
Now the incompetent bodyguard, haha.
Yeon Joo understand quickly that Soo-Hee put her in a trap.
KC’s feelings for YJ progressively change. As a person he can change. I believe this is why he has become self-determining. And with the high intelligence and intuition he’s been given, he’s capable of pursuing a successful course despite the odds stacked against him.
I still find it odd that KC doesn’t seem to have the ability to recognize YJ’s physical beauty. He can’t understand why her facial features are pleasing to others. He says he’d be unmoved by her nudity. Yet he does sense he responds to her words, realizing he might be swayed if he hears her say “I love you” often enough.
SLOW MOTION X3!!! throw the phone. ^^
@WE
I just caught what he says at the end of that “I Love You”
Makes sense now! I didnt catch it the first time.
@Carolina, ask any question you want, you-re welcome. 😉
I like this small dialog with the goosebump music. Faaaar away… “who have no identity”… “I don’t have”.
Soo Hee saying lies about why she put Yeon Joo in a trap, when all she is it’s jalous.
Next Yeon Joo will end to make Detective Park mad, as she can’t answer anything, even if she wanted.
@Welmaris I see. I wondered why they bring that up so much. Is it a clue?
First time watching I just put is as denial.
@Caro @Welmaris, we already saw that. It’s because the manhwa isn’t a romatic one. The truth is Kang Chul know nothing about women. He can’t have the ability to understand if a woman is beautiful. But he still like the charm of Yeon-Joo. So I suppose is more attracted by her personnality than her physical.
Now, the harsh bussiness decision, quite surprising… Kang Chul FIRE the SFL!!! Of course, kind of thing that could have an impact later.
Poor YJ can’t even bear prison for a couple of days. So she will definitely not want to stay there for the rest of her life. The only circumstance that could get her to reveal the truth that brought KC to his knees.
Ahhh that’s now, the long important dialog. enjoy!!
One of the reasons KC is highly intuitive is that he has a finely tuned sense of logic. He recognizes that the events happening to him and the actions of others around him lack context. This means he has self awareness, situational awareness, and awareness of continuity (or lack of it).
“Murder needs a culprit and a motive.”
“I think there is someone there [from outside KC’s world] who is hostile towards me too. The bastard who’s fabricating all these incidents without logical connections, the one who’s dying to kill me…all this is that bastard’s doing.”
With his superior intelligence and understanding of logic, KC is able to develop an educated guess about the string of out-of-context (lacking motive) things happening to him. He’s profiled the nature of the culprit, even if he hasn’t yet discovered the culprit’s identity.
@GB, yeah, and Kang Chul understand that. He’s not really kind with her. Really not. He want to know the truth by any way. So, here, he’s not the nice ML with an interest for the FL, he do everything to pressure her.
I love KC’s rationale and how it leads logically to firing So Hee.
KC sure has a bling-y sense of fashion, at least when it comes to shoes for YJ to wear.
Yeon Joo is the one with the cold head here, not Kang Chul.. “I don’t know what it could trigger”. Kang Chul don’t see more than what he want absolutely. Of course he don’t have the information to take the good decision, and like she say… he will regret it.
@WE I like that he just gets the logic … he’s so sure that if she tells him the unpalatable truth, she’ll disappear. But at the same time, I wonder how he makes these deductive leaps.
“to be continued”…. AHHH HHHAAA so good final of the scene, with everything. Kang Chul get an absolute proof, first time he see her disapear. So all the things he presume about dimensional stuff is true. But… still… can he really believe the thing about manhwa? Not yet. But… very soon…
@GB, we’ll get flashabcks in next episodes so we know how he have a start to think about so weird things.
Good point here for Soo-Bong… he gets also proof about the phenomenon. Now the poor and coward Soo-Bong is implicated in the kind of crazyness that will make him mad, and so more funny.
I am still at the very beginning of the episode. Chul has already gave his PD his take of what is happening and I concur with @WEnchanteur, it is a good way to expose what the main character knows and thinks he knows.
The lady has such an ugly duckling mentality, she squirms about being attended.
@Carolina, yes the sancocho is good 😉
lol
“Oh gosh. Oh my.. my.. kissing again?
You got your wishes fulfilled. Arent you having fun?”
She was not having fun and ended up blurting out the truth.
So the portal opens because KC is self aware? Does KC make it happen?
Why is everything frozen?
OK @WE. Poor Soo Bong. He’s fortunately around still and can help her. What a diff between Soo Bong getting an outfit for YJ and KC doing it LOL.
Useless to ask things to Kang Chul… he never answer.
Only one he speak is his mentor, father friend.
So Hee in her blood red dress certainly looks the part of a femme fatale, except that her intended victim is YJ. What she doesn’t realize is that her plan hurts KC, and ultimately herself, as well. She does not have the intuition and awareness of context that KC has.
Why does KC have so much awareness of actions that don’t have context? “I was someone whose life was almost shattered due to the same type of public decrees. Did you forget? I was a victim of that too. They said that it didn’t make sense. They asked why I went to school at that time instead of watching soccer. They said I was stuttering because I had nothing to say. I was turned from the victim to the culprit, in that short moment…Because it doesn’t make any sense. No one looks at the context and they only look at what can be seen outwardly. And they think that that’s what makes sense.”
I like very much Soo-Bong line “we are good for psychiatric asylum and you worry for an comics character”.
You are charming in an idiotic way… ¡¡¡bullseye!!! XD XD XD XD XD XD
Series of flashback for Kang Chul, the way he connect the dots and start to think it’s not only a dimensional stuff, but really the truth, he’s a manhwa character, gosh!!
In an earlier episode, while KC was in the hospital recuperating for two months, time compressed for YJ while she sat at the bus stop outside the hospital. She realized that while the manhwa’s main character was “offstage,” the manhwa’s timeline raced ahead because the only things that mattered in W centered on him.
Now we have KC in a plane on his way to New York City, but YJ is not experiencing compressed time. I believe this is because the decisions and actions of others impact KC, even if he is not in their presence.
And now… the huuuugge plot twist of the episode!! It’s now, kang Chul understand he’s a fiction… as soon as it happens….
TIME STOP! He’s the only one aware, so the only one moving in this frozen world.
@Carolina,
Here we get a new phenomenon, basic one, whose rule is : the first time a fiction character become aware to be a fiction, the manhwa stop and a big portal to real world opens. Impact in the real world… white screen on the tablet. All is stopped.
Goooooosebumps!!!!
Lee Jong Suk is great in this scene, the best he can.
All make sens because as the chararter know he’s a fiction, in the same way, he’s aware, and become more real, so.. obviously, he can access to reality, thus the big portal. Unlike small portal we got episode 1, the big portal allow to walk in and… reach the other world.
Note how Kang Chul think about everything. Ok I have to go there… but first.. let’s take a weapon!
Flashback with the small portal, so we understand why Kang Chul is so suspicious about the whole inter-dimensional stuff.
A point difficult to spot… on the roof of the hostel, there is half broken Tablet. It’s the hostel where Oh Sung moo took an fire extinguisher and broke the tablet.
End on that, Kang Chul now in the real world. Now I think best cliffhanger than in the script.
Already at end of episode 4… the hero can go in the other world… So what will happens next, with 12 more episodes?!!
YJ has realized for awhile that KC is a living, breathing person and not just a cartoon character, but I think her experiencing first-hand the discomfort of being held in prison in hot weather, no relief from the high temperature, gives her greater empathy for what KC had to endure during his year in jail. Manhwa fans could read through those scenes in minutes, but KC had to live through every moment of that hell.
KC warns YJ of the horrors she’ll face–possibly for years–if she remains silent. He encourages her to share the truth with him, even if it is a difficult one. YJ wants to protect KC from the truth of his existence because she’s afraid it’ll make him unhappy. KC: “I don’t think I’m that happy right now either. I even can’t sleep well because I don’t know when I might die.”
Both times the portal opens, YJ became worried for the character of KC. As YJ once again fears for KC, the portal comes back. He recalls the small portal before that brought YJ to him and realises it is the way to YJ’s world.
He appears in the place where SM’s drawing laptop has been thrown away and once again ends up walking in the rain to start a new episode of ‘life’.
@Welmaris, about Kang Chul line in the car, it’s because he mentions the phone!! yeah, it’s why we get SlowMotionx3 on the phone Yeon Joo trows. It’s the proof Yeon Joo don’t want Kang Chul have problems because of this phone. So, anything she can be, she’s not someone who want to hurt Kang Chul but help him. What he was already knowing at start of the episode and saying to his mentor. “she want to help me, but there is someone else who cause me all these problems and want to kill me”.
It is interesting how the Deux Ex Machina trope is showed through a mirror in this episode: an external will imposing over the tight logic of reality in this world.
sorry had to step out to start breakfast for the kids. i feel like all i do now is ask questions lol
@carolina, join my club!!! I mostly ask questions with ‘W’, whereas I do try to analyse stuff for other shows. If I had more time, I might do more, but like I told @WE, I’ve got a good deal going here because he and others like @Welmaris are on hand to answer questions. LOL So sit back and enjoy!
Poor Soo Bong. Poor actor, Lee Si Un, who plays him. It looks like his trip and fall at the bus stop when YJ appears in her prison garb is not scripted. It also looks like it hurt! But he stays in character.
And that bang on the head when he’s trying to get out of the car in a hurry. Poor guy really beat himself up trying to get to his noona. If all that physical abuse was scripted, Lee Si Un was committed to the role and convincing in his desperation. If it wasn’t scripted, Lee Si Un carried on without pause despite pain because he was committed to the role, and in doing so convinced viewers of SB’s desperation. Same result.
That conversation between Chul and the babe assistant seems very logical. Kind of remembers me Sir Arthur Conan Doyle’s take on Sherlock Holme’s logic.
@Welmaris, I particularly like Lee Si Un in this role. He delivers in every role he plays. Pity he’s always relegated to 2nd or 3rd lead.
@Welmaris… Soo Bong fall at the bus stop is in the script. Just he does this kind of clownerie so well. 😉
@FGB: there is 2 references to sherlock holmes in the script. One was cut (scene removed) and the other one during the Montage of episode 3, when Yeon-Joo mother watch the TV.
when Do Yoon asks KC how YJ escaped, KC remains silent. He is aware that the truth will be incomprehensible to DY, but I think KC also wants to spare DY the shock of knowing the truth about being a manhwa character.
I like So Hee less and less. She may have been KC’s friend since high school, but she was disloyal when she–his employee–directly disobeyed his orders and orchestrated YJ’s arrest. She suffers the consequence of her choice by being fired from her job as KC’s secretary. How can he continue to trust her? He was generous by offering to remain friends with her. But rather than owning her mistake, SH blames the termination of her employment on YJ. That girl’s trouble! Honestly, it would be best for KC if he distanced himself as far as possible from SH from now on, but we know that won’t happen because…Kdrama.
@Welmaris… not yet. At this point Kang Chul didn’t fully accept the idea to be a manhwa character. He don’t answer to Do-Yoon because anyway, he never answer, and also, he need to think very hard about what Yeon-Joo said.
About Soo-Hee, you will probably change your mind later, but I don’t give Spoiler. 😉
Nearing the end. As KC realizes the his world is not real, time in his world stops and the voice over (YJ), “As if it were a punishment for the person who realizes the truth.” One of the things I do love about this drama is all these seemingly throw-away lines — my mind leaps to make connections that may or may not be intended.
Also this time when viewing the final scenes, I noticed that through good lighting or excellent sharp cinematography in the scene where KC sinks to the floor in a daze near the prison balcony railing, he briefly looks sharp and clear and for a second like a manhwa drawing, even though it we are still in his world and so the camera is still rolling. I would guess that the entire scene with the 3-D takes on coffee spilling and bubbles rising would not have been possible 10 or 15 years ago, but very effective here and effortlessly moves from that still scene to KC moving and sinking down.
“If we end this, what about Kang Cheol? What’s going to happen to Kang Cheol?”
SB wants to protect YJ from being dragged back into W, where she’s now a fugitive, by ending the W manhwa series. He believes YJ does go into the manhwa, but hasn’t wrapped his head around KC being a living person. To SB, KC is still just a comic character.
Director Son, when on the phone with KC after YJ’s disappearance, at least entertains the idea that she vanished into another dimension. He listened to what KC had said to him during their conversation in Busan. Director Son kept his mind open. He’s a good man, and a good supporter of KC. I’m glad KC has someone in his life with whom he can be transparent. Director Son is also quick to piece together cause and effect, surmising that YJ’s “escape” while KC is visiting her will be used by Prosecutor Han to attack KC.
Prosecutor Han is not a character that learns. His sole purpose in the manhwa is to persecute (not just prosecute) KC. He is not created as a just character, even though as a prosecutor he’s supposed to seek justice. He’s not interested in truth. He is an antagonist, incapable of change, as his character is a one-dimensional creation, a plot device. Unlike the faceless culprit, Prosecutor Han at least has a name and identity, but the two characters have the same ultimate purpose: to put an end to KC.
Dear Friends, it is said that for some writers there is a distinct moment where their characters starts having a voice of their own and separate themselves of the original plot. This is where things become interesting as the story gets more nuanced.
I am sorry, but the reference is so beautiful I couldn’t resist:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djV11Xbc914
Take On Me – AHA
“The reason for my existence. That’s the real problem.” KC, with his intelligence, is able to discern the core issue at hand despite the noise and chaos around him (not just in the prison, but in all of W).
The nuances shown in Lee Jong Suk’s face as he speaks on the phone with Director Han, essentially delivering a soliloquy, are remarkable acting. A tear glistening in the eye. A cheek twitching. An almost-imperceptible sigh. Lee Jong Suk is able to make himself look both vulnerable and determined, crushed and capable.
“Everything that could not be explained in my life…If I fit them together according to Oh Yeon Joo’s nonsense, all of those things make sense…Things that had no logical connection suddenly have a connection. A logical connection that can explain everything.”
When KC admits to himself that his world is a fabrication, his self-awareness separates him from that world in which no-one else shares that awareness. (The only other character that comes close would be Director Son.) Everything in W freezes. This also happened when KC was threatened by the truck of doom and came to the conclusion it only existed to kill him: no license plate, no driver.
The reason the world of W continues to be frozen at this point, instead of becoming reanimated like after the truck of doom incident, is that SB removed the “to be continued” from the last panel. By doing so, he implies an end without changing any of the previous plot. In the manhwa, everything, even time, stops because the creative force has been withdrawn. But KC’s self-awareness and desire to solve the problem behind the reason of his existence overrides SB’s attempt to end the world of W.
In a voiceover, we hear YJ say, “The moment the main character realized the lie, the world inside the comic came to a screeching halt. [As it had previously, when KC had the intuition that the truck of doom was purely a device being manipulated by someone outside his world.] Only Kang Cheol, in the world where time stopped, survived alone. As if it were a punishment for the person who realized the truth.” I wonder if KC didn’t have self-awareness and the manhwa story ended without “and they all live happily ever after,” if the entire world of W would have disappeared. Perhaps its fate was to fall into a state of stasis when the story ended as long as the previous story continued to exist in the real world. This makes me think of a belief of ancient Egyptians, that as long as someone speaks the name of a person, that person continues to live in the afterlife.
YJ realizes that her having revealed to KC the reason he exists, that he and his life are a story for the entertainment of others, has had profound impact on KC and his world. She had been afraid of that, and feels responsible for anything bad that happens to KC and his world because of that revelation. I believe it is her empathy, her love for Kang Cheol, that allows a portal to develop between W and her world. Without realizing it, she draws KC to her.
I love how when KC stands in front of the computer-screen portal, from one angle we see the frozen live action, and from the angle through the screen the world of W becomes a manhwa drawing. Fabulous storytelling, Drama!
KC had seen a similar, smaller portal appear next to him when he’d been dying of stab wounds on the roof of the hotel. At that time, incapacitated by his injuries, he’d only been able to reach through the portal and grab onto whatever was on the other side, hoping for help to survive his wounds. This time, the portal is large enough to step through, and he has the ability to do so.
Writer Oh’s computer screen is KC’s portal to exit the manhwa. It doesn’t matter that the screen is smashed and not powered. In the past, KC had been able to change and create manhwa content while Writer Oh’s screen and Writer Oh, himself, were in sleep mode. There is a force greater than electricity that powers the portal. Could it be love? KC’s love for his family, driving his desire to find their killer and his reasons? KC’s love of justice, giving him strength to endure all sorts of tribulations? KC’s love of his world, even though he has suffered much unhappiness while in it? KC’s love of truth? Or the love of YJ, his greatest fan, for KC?
I had noticed this earlier, but again noticed it when OSM’s screen is seen fading out: the appearance of the damage on the screen looks very similar to the drawing OSM made of the water closing over KC’s head in what was to have been his death scene.
@FGB, The writer talks about this in an interview, and of course it happens to her. I would add that it’s not just the characters, but the whole story. For the Aha clip, I remember that in the making of, they mention the idea of paying tribute to the clip (portal scene).
@Velmaris, your last comment has some very good ideas.
I didn’t see any conflict between the ending Soo-Bong wanted and the TimeStop. Soo-Bong just has time to delete the “to be continued”, but not to finish typing the ending. What he does does not influence the phenomenon, but the coincidence is amazing because the manhwa is effectively at an indeterminate stage, with no continuation or ending, at the moment the screen goes blank.
The previous moments of self-awareness also cause anomalies, but temporary, because Kang Chul does not know the truth definitively. So he changes the plot, as he does from the very beginning, when he escapes suicide. But the first time that what he changes becomes noticeable is when he triggers the mini-portal to catch Yeon-Joo. For phenomena involving access to the other world, the tablet is involved, as a means of transit.
One line actually suggests that before revealing the truth (and afterwards as well), Yeon-Joo fears that something weird and supernatural will be caused, as she can see that she is dealing with a paranormal phenomenon with unpredictable consequences. And she also worries about Kang Chul.
The fact that the tablet could have been used as a portal, even when turned off. This is true in the case of an event of this kind (complete self awareness + large portal), but not in other more minor cases. We already know that from the real world, the paranormal phenomenon is able to influence the reality of the manhwa world. And here we see with amazement that this is also the case in reverse. The phenomenon can subvert the physical laws of the real world. It was already doing so in a discreet way before this, by changing the image on the tablet, when Kang Chul made a different decision than Oh Sung-Moo. However, now it becomes more important.
Here I am not really looking for a reason, it is just the nature of the phenomenon. But there are other factors that may come into play, the ones you mention, Kang Chul’s desire for emancipation, the strange metaphysical association/dissociation between the character and the author Oh Sung-Moo, like at the time of the failed suicide. I retained the idea that the phenomenon was facilitated if there was a potential love between two characters each in their different worlds (like in the Aha clip). Although this is not the only truth about the phenomenon. It’s just an absurdity without a knowable cause, that a set of reasons trigger. A creation ex-nihilo.
The scene where Yeon-Joo is in the hotel bar.
To the line:
“YEON JOO – Oh, that’s, (embarrassed) I didn’t know.. Is this the place?”
Here with little, we can see in the drama everything that the actress Han Yoo-Joo invents. On this line in particular, she is a bit of a ham and a talker. And during the scene, compared to the script, she puts a lot of life into it, much more than the script suggests. It contains several lines of type “…!”. So empty expressions, giving freedom to the actor, depending on the general meaning of the scene.
In the line:
“Yeon Joo, …?!! That’s when I realized that Soo Hee had hit me in the back.”
The idea is not really rendered in the drama. But I don’t see how it could be done. All the actress can do is to show that she feels trapped. While having in mind the reason, if it can influence and help for an expression.
The scene is slightly different when shot at the end. We don’t see Yeon-Joo running away to the kitchen in the scene. Instead, the director takes advantage of the shot on the waiters, and then shows an empty seat. He passes the escape in ellipsis, and it is more effective. So, in the drama no need for:
“Yeon Joo gets up and goes straight to the kitchen.”
We see from the next scene Yeon-Joo running into the kitchen, so we know which way she ran away.
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#28. Sky Lounge + Entrance (Night)
Sky lounge with good atmosphere and great view.
Yeon Joo enters, but bodyguard 1 stands at the entrance.
BODYGUARD1 – (to enter, gesture)
WAITRESS – (Coming out) Come this way.
YEON JOO – (Glancing and following the waitress)
BODYGUARD1 – (Standing at the entrance and looking at Yeon Joo’s movement)
Yeon Joo, sits by the window with a nice view.
When you go out, you feel like you are living, the music and the view, the tension is relieved.
I’m watching Guard 1, Yeon Joo, and when the phone rings, I answer it with a Bluetooth earphone I put in my ear.
BODYGUARD1 – Yes. took a seat. (Do) Yes.. Yes? (expression)
Meanwhile, the waiter comes with a glass of water and a menu.
WAITER – Are you two?
YEON JOO – (looking at the view) Yes.
WAITER – (putting down the menu and glass of water) Uh…?
YEON JOO – (Seeing?)
WAITER – (Looking at Yeon Joo’s face) Maybe… aren’t you?
YEON JOO – Yes..?
WAITER – (Eyes are stinging) At that time, on the roof, CEO Kang, the doctor when he was stabbed with a knife,
YEON JOO – (..!!!)
WAITER – Are you right? At that time, everyone looked for them, but they suddenly disappeared, and the police just found
You didn’t know that? It just appeared on the news, so why are you here now?
YEON JOO – Oh, that’s, (embarrassed) I didn’t know.. Is this the place?
WAITER – Wait a minute, (I’m going somewhere later)
YEON JOO – (!)
Waiter, obviously you’re going to call the police…
It’s ridiculous that Yeon Joo and Soo Hee caught a place like this, but if you look at the entrance in a hurry, bodyguard 1 is missing. Yeon Joo, …?!! That’s when I realized that Soo Hee had hit me in the back.
At the counter, the waiter is talking to the staff. She glances at the counter staff, Yeon Joo, and immediately calls… Yeon Joo gets up and goes straight to the kitchen.
On the other hand, the counter
COUNTER – (on the phone) Yes, come up now. I’m sure.
WAITER – (whispering) Call the police too. She said she could be an accomplice, she’s a suspect, not just a witness.
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Cliffhanger planned in episode 4 of the script.
In the drama, the scene falls halfway through the episode.
This allows to see the length on paper of a scene of 8 minutes in the drama.
There are a lot of didascalies (parenthesis) giving ideas of attitude to the actors.
Then they do their best to reproduce it, or they invent what they think is best, or according to the director’s direction.
As usual, the translation is very rough, with mistakes.
As a curiosity, at the end, we see written :
“Yeon Joo, …!!!”
Even in a line of description the writer can point out a character expression in this way, it’s quite amazing.
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#50. Detention Center Visiting Room (Afternoon)
A meeting room with glass partitions lined up with visitor booths.
Kang Chul, standing around waiting for the door to open…
Yeon Joo in a shroud enters through the glass wall.
KANG CHUL – (….! My heart fluttered at the sight of Sue wearing it, and compassion) ….
YEON JOO – (Feeling like meeting the only acquaintance on a lonely star)
KANG CHUL – (Smile for nothing)
Two, sitting with a glass wall in between
KANG CHUL – I’m sorry it’s too late. It only takes two days to go back.
(with) How are you doing?
YEON JOO – It’s hot.
KANG CHUL – Oh, yes, it’s hot. (Like a joke) I know because I’ve been here for a long time.
We had four seasons, but in the summer it was so hot that it made me cry.
YEON JOO – (At that word, the tears I had been holding back suddenly burst out)
KANG CHUL – (expression)
YEON JOO – (I try to wipe away my tears, but I can’t control myself and it pours out)
KANG CHUL – It’s hard..?
YEON JOO – No (I do) Yes, (I laugh, but tears keep coming) It’s kind of ridiculous, ah, really, I can’t get used to it, this is a bit too… I’ve only seen this in movies,
KANG CHUL – …….
YEON JOO – I never imagined that I would come to this place, I’m just an ordinary citizen
KANG CHUL – Ordinary small citizens come here.
Few people know how to come here.
.
KANG CHUL – (E) Suddenly, one day, when you come to your senses, you are sitting in a solitary cell in a detention center.
YEON JOO – (Face)
KANG CHUL – (Looking at the guards and looking down) Listen carefully. Now the situation is bleak.
I have no cause to help, and there is only bigger work left to do.
Illegal stay on charges of attempted murder murder teacher, background investigation, investigation and investigation for all kinds of reasons, confrontation, trial, investigation, trial again, there will be no end.
KANG CHUL – That’s how life is ruined.
They’ve already made up their minds that you’re the culprit.
I’ve been so tired for two months. So you have to be the culprit.
YEON JOO – (Face)
KANG CHUL – I will do anything to make that happen. They insult, scare, and destroy the mentality. It could turn into weeks and months, and it could turn into years.
After going through that process, it is not easy to live as a small citizen again.
YEON JOO – (Face)
KANG CHUL – So, I’ll answer you now. to my question.
YEON JOO – (…!)
KANG CHUL – I believe what you said is true.
So that’s the only way to avoid what’s to come.
You answer my questions and disappear from this place.
YEON JOO – (…!)
KANG CHUL – Where’s Oh Yeon Joo from?
YEON JOO – ……!
KANG CHUL – …….
YEON JOO – Here… if I disappear, there will be a riot.
KANG CHUL – That’s right. But you don’t have to worry about that. Because the Oh Yeon Joo scene is gone and it’s enough to go home. I’ll fix the rest. This is the world I live in.
YEON JOO – (Face)
KANG CHUL – Answer me.
YEON JOO – (I’m shaking) I can’t. I told you, you’d be unhappy.
KANG CHUL – (Laughs) I don’t think I’m very happy right now.
I always can’t sleep well because I don’t know when I’m going to die. You know?
YEON JOO – (Face)
KANG CHUL – You too. Does it matter if I’m stuck here for the rest of my life? 10 years or 20 years?
YEON JOO – …… No.
KANG CHUL – (Looking at the watch as the visit time decreases) Answer me. I don’t have much time.
YEON JOO – I don’t know what’s going to happen..!
KANG CHUL – It’s already happened. Look where we are now.
YEON JOO – (Face)
KANG CHUL – Where does Oh Yeon Joo live..?
YEON JOO – …… (only) Seoul…
KANG CHUL – Same Seoul..? But what’s different..?
YEON JOO – (Voice trembles) That’s where I live… Here you live…
KANG CHUL – But how do you know everything about me..? I’m not there.
YEON JOO – …….
KANG CHUL – You said you saw it all. about me.
YEON JOO – (I can’t speak at all)
KANG CHUL – Where did you see about me..?
YEON JOO – (Forcing a joke) I’d rather have a nude show.
KANG CHUL – (laughs) Because your nudes don’t work for me.
YEON JOO – …….
KANG CHUL – Answer me (slightly).
YEON JOO – (Anxiety towards greater catastrophe) You will regret it.
KANG CHUL – No regrets.
YEON JOO – ……
KANG CHUL – What is the world you live in..?
YEON JOO – ……
KANG CHUL – ……
YEON JOO – (eventually) a cartoon…. cheating.
KANG CHUL – (?) What…?
YEON JOO – ……
KANG CHUL – (I don’t understand) You mean Oh Yeon Joo is from a cartoon?
YEON JOO – No..
KANG CHUL – Then
YEON JOO – I’m here..
KANG CHUL – (?) What is that…
YEON JOO – ….. this is in a cartoon.
KANG CHUL – (expression)
YEON JOO – I see… a cartoon.
KANG CHUL – (expression)
YEON JOO – You are… the main character of that cartoon…
KANG CHUL – (expression)
Silence flows for a moment.
It’s unclear whether Kang Chul understood these words or what he was thinking.
Yeon Joo, I want to say something more, but the words immediately popped up in front of my eyes.
Yeon Joo, …!!!
In front of Kang Chul, Yeon Joo disappears like smoke.
Kang Chul, facial expression.
Police standing behind and guarding, startled
POLICE – ??!! uh, what?? uh, where did you go???!
KANG CHUL – (sitting still, no movement)
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#51. Bus Stop (AM)
Yeon Joo is back,
He sits on a bench, wearing a robe.
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#52. Detention Center Visiting Room (Afternoon)
When the emergency bell rang and the police rushed in and out, there was a commotion,
Kang Chul is still recalling the words he had heard a moment ago.
There is no expression on his face, but Kang Chul’s eyes are subtly trembling…
End of the 4th.
Episode 5 in the script.
Yeon-Joo comes back to the real world, right after the visiting room scene.
Soo-Bong falls apart.
In this scene, the way Yeon-Joo is completely lost. She has just spent a tiring week in the manhwa. The return to reality puts her in an almost catatonic state. This is what the actress manages to do in her own way. We feel strongly the atmosphere of the scene in the drama. Atmosphere imagined beforehand by the scriptwriter. It is her choice to illustrate this.
The actors add little things that improve the scene: Soo-Bong makes a hand sign in front of Yeon-Joo’s face (and that doesn’t help her more to put her feet on the ground).
Then before the last line, since before the writer indicated (dazed, I just stare) but here she just indicates “…..”, the actress chose to look at Soo-Bong at that moment, while being absent, a bit tragic, and unable to talk to her.
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#4. Bus Stop (AM)
Yeon Joo, unable to escape the tension of the conversation a while ago, sitting motionless in that spot… where the car horn sounds.
SOO BONG – (E) Noona!!
YEON JOO – ….. (looks around slowly)
Soo Bong hurriedly got out of his light car parked nearby.
SOO BONG – Noona!! sister!! (Surprised, he jumped up and fell and fell in front of Yeon Joo as he got caught in his chin) Oh!
YEON JOO – (Because I’m dazed, I just stare)
SOO BONG – (Lying on the floor and looking up at Yeon Joo in a shroud) Noona, I guess… Did you really go to jail right now?
YEON JOO – ……
SOO BONG – (Amazing) Really…?!
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The discussion between Kang Chul and his mentor Hyun Suk.
Which as Welmaris pointed out is very well acted by Lee Jong Suk.
In case some people would claim that he is just a tall and handsome guy, but he is overated as an actor. The proof of the contrary is here. Lee Jong Suk has a few small flaws that I observed, but it’s more on certain expressions in comedy scenes, and that doesn’t happen often.
The scene contains few indications and the actor must really invent most of himself, in short, interpret the character thoroughly. A profound work of acting.
We can note some details, which have been noted, and well restored, such as the (laughs to hide tension) :
“KANG CHUL – The first impression of the woman was right. Hey, you’re a crazy woman. (Laughs to hide tension) He was uttering utter nonsense… ”
On top of that, the actor manages to put in there a sense of derision at the absurdity of his situation. So even with a hint, he makes it into something greater.
In the end, when Kang Chul reaches the end:
“KANG CHUL – ….. (I can’t even spit it out) This world…”
The actor adds a bit of rage and a trembling voice.
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#23. Broadcasting station editing room + detention center visit waiting room (afternoon)
Hyun Suk enters the editing room with the door locked
HYUN SUK – What Happened? You said you disappeared when we were together?
KANG CHUL – Yes.
HYUN SUK – The words you said to me that day, are they the same?
As Kang said, he didn’t escape, he went to another dimension.
KANG CHUL – Probably.
HYUN SUK – (!!)
KANG CHUL – ……
HYUN SUK – How could that be… (Amazing but unbelievable) How could it be?
KANG CHUL – …..
HYUN SUK – (distressed) This is a huge accident.. Now he’s very determined and biting, you know Han Chul Ho was always looking for opportunities, right? Election is next year! At the very least, I’d drive the raid into a self-made play.
KANG CHUL – That’s right… But Han Chul Ho isn’t the problem.
HYUN SUK – What…?
KANG CHUL – It’s nothing like that. The reason I exist… that’s the real problem…
HYUN SUK – (?!) What did you hear from Oh Yeon Joo?
KANG CHUL – I heard it.
HYUN SUK – What are you talking about..?
KANG CHUL – Totally crazy.
HYUN SUK – (…?)
KANG CHUL – The first impression of the woman was right. Hey, you’re a crazy woman.
(Laughs to hide tension) He was uttering utter nonsense…
HYUN SUK – But. Why do you care about that bullshit?
KANG CHUL – But all the things I didn’t understand in my life…
If you try to fit in with Oh Yeon Joo’s nonsense, all of a sudden it’s all goofy.
HYUN SUK – What…?
KANG CHUL – Things that didn’t even have a context… All at once, a context comes into play.
A context that can explain everything.
HYUN SUK – (Fearful knowing that Kang Chul is really embarrassed) The context… What is it?
KANG CHUL – …… this is really…
HYUN SUK – ……?
KANG CHUL – I never really even imagined it.
HYUN SUK – What’s the context..?
KANG CHUL – ….. (I can’t even spit it out) This world…
HYUN SUK – (Tense)
KANG CHUL – The whole world is fake. (and) a completely fabricated world.
For a moment, the siren sound cuts off. The news cuts off.
The murmuring of people, the sound of crying babies, and the noise of the fan stopped all at once.
Kang Chul, realizing the absolute silence, stopped. In Kang Chul’s view, who was looking at the wall and talking on the phone… The fan that was running next to him stopped partially coming in…
I feel like I’m standing on my head with a strange horror coming over me…
Kang Chul looked back slowly, then his expression.
Do Yoon, who was standing around behind, and the people watching TV, all were frozen like ice.
The police guarding the entrance, the TV, the fan, and the clock all stopped.
Kang Chul, …..!!!!!
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One scene later, the rest of the situation.
Due to the topology of the set, and/or by choice, the sequence of events is slightly different in the drama. Or what Kang Chul crosses in what order.
The main thing is Kang Chul’s psychological state at that moment, surprise, disbelief, fear. And how he reacts to all this. At what point he panics (after touching Do-Yoon for example). At what point he collapses.
In the script, Song Jae-Jung makes Kang Chul fall when he comes across a frozen policeman by surprise. But in the drama, the director chose to make Kang Chul fall only because his legs are cut off by the stupefaction. He can’t stand upright anymore when he sees the frightening and supernatural event.
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#25. Detention center visit waiting room (afternoon)
Again in Kang Chul’s frantically shaking eyes…
The person who was drinking was still drinking, the crying baby was crying, the bag of the person who dropped the bag was still in the air as it fell, and the curtain blown by the wind was blown in the air…!
Kang Chul, ……!!!! I can’t figure out what I’m looking at right now
I can’t believe it, I stand there for a while and then approach Do Yoon
KANG CHUL – Hyung…?
DO YOON – (without moving)
KANG CHUL – (holding out trembling hands) Hyung…?
Kang Chul, Do Yoon getting his hands on him and squealing.
Do Yoon just hardened. It is as cold as a stone, and it cannot even breathe.
Suddenly, an uncontrollable and violent fear came over me…
Kang Chul runs, pushes the police blocking the entrance and opens the door
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#26. Detention center hallway (afternoon)
Kang Chul, came out in a hurry and the moment, …..!!!
The face of a police officer just about to enter the waiting room seems to touch Kang Chul!
Unfocused pupil, staring at Kang Chul like a stuffed animal.
Kang Chul falls to the floor in shock and surprise…..!!!
At the gaze of Kang Chul, who sat down…
On the other side of the long hallway, a policeman with a police dog is stopped in the hallway.
The police dog was still stuffed. Kang Chul, facial expression.
The hand holding the phone is trembling.
KANG CHUL – (only picks up the phone) Sir…?
Hyun Suk over the phone, no answer.
KANG CHUL – (The only hope) Sir.. are you listening..? answer!
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#27. Broadcasting station editing room (afternoon)
Hyun Suk, who was on the phone, was still there. The light disappears in the pupil.
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#28. Newsroom (afternoon)
Even the anchor who was running the breaking news about Kang Chul stopped talking.
_________________________________________________
#29. Penthouse Living Room (Afternoon)
Soo Hee, who was watching the breaking news on TV, one bodyguard, and the roommaid who was serving coffee stopped without putting down their cup.
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#30. Detention center hallway (afternoon)
Kang Chul, if you look at your phone late, your phone is also turned off.
He realizes that no one is alive and no machine is working.
Kang Chul had never in his life been so frightened and frightened.
Even the day the body of the family was found at once was not such a shock.
YEON JOO – (E) The moment the main character realized the fiction, the world in the cartoon stopped like that.
Only Kang Chul survived in a world where time stood still.
Like a punishment given to those who awakened.
Kang Chul, unable to even dare to get up, sits on the floor.
_________________________________________________
The end of the situation, until the portal is crossed.
There, the script is incredible. While usually everything is quite short and factual, the scriptwriter takes the time to describe all the internal states and the atmosphere, because the scene is very important. The writing becomes a bit more romanticized, while still avoiding flowery language.
Incredible lines everywhere, such as at the end:
“Kang Chul, ….!!! That feeling at that time comes to mind…
be sure right away That there is Yeon Joo’s world beyond that frame.”
Or again:
“All the truth is out of that frame. It was clear.
No, now Kang Chul has no choice but to go to the other world.”
In the script, SJJ insists more on the methodical side of the hero: he grabs two guns, not just one! However, the second gun has no use in the rest of the story. The director chose to make the scene more clear, more focused on the main subject, to not waste any dramatic energy on an extra shot.
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#33. Detention center hallway (afternoon)
I see Kang Chul sitting still and not moving.
At first glance, it seems that Kang Chul is also stuffed.
But when I get close to the camera, my pupils are shaking…
A world where the concept of time has disappeared. I don’t even know how much time has passed.
But let’s accept this situation now.
I barely have a slender will to do something.
Kang Chul gets up and sees people still standing still…
I looked away to go somewhere and stopped…!!
A thin black line appears at the end of the dark hallway.
Kang Chul, facial expression.
Yeon Joo , which was only visible to the eye, a sense of space like a three-dimensional image like subtitles Unfamiliar, one black line became two consecutive lines, and a square frame was created in an instant..
Kang Chul, facial expression.
It is a black frame that means a cartoon cut.
Kang Chul, …!!! He slowly walks towards it as if possessed.
There is only a line in the space, and beyond that, the walls of the detention center are visible.
Kang Chul, approaching an unknown frame, carefully stretches out his hand, but as he enters another dimension, his hand is not visible.
Kang Chul, ….!!!
That’s right, this feeling, this was definitely not the first time. It certainly was then.
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#34. Reminiscence – Hotel Rooftop (Night)
The situation right before the 29th scene of episode 1.
Kang Chul is stabbed to death.
A black frame floats through the night sky in the blurry vision of losing consciousness…
Without knowing what it is, I reach out my hand like my last hope.
Hands going into the wormhole…
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#35. Reminiscence – Sung Moo’s Workshop (Afternoon)
Episode 1 in 28 scenes
A short cut with Kang Chul’s outstretched hand coming out of the tablet and grabbing Yeon Joo’s hem.
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#36. Detention center hallway (afternoon)
Kang Chul, ….!!! That feeling at that time comes to mind…
be sure right away That there is Yeon Joo’s world beyond that frame.
Kang Chul pulls his hand out again. Seeing that his hands are fine…
Looking back, the world is still still…
All the truth is out of that frame. It was clear.
No, now Kang Chul has no choice but to go to the other world.
As soon as I made up my mind, I approached the stiffened policeman and pulled out a pistol from the holster… I also pulled out another police officer’s pistol and put one behind my back and one in my hand…
I still stare at the floating black frame as if seducing…
Just walk right into it.
Kang Chul, disappearing through space in an instant
Thank you @GB Unnie,
I will read you first and then I will write my thoughts.
I have been caught all weekend and the prior week with image of Goya’s Saturn eating his children and in particular with the thought that Saturn=Cronus. Enough that I missed an exit while running an errand this weekend and had to circle back; enough that I attempted to write an “Ode to W”… I read in Wiki last night that Cronus was not Chronos, chronological time, but still am struck by the idea of how eating one’s children stops the future, i.e. stops time. And the very clear exposition of ‘time’ in this drama. KC does not worry much about time until the very end of episode 4 in spite of that earlier point where the truck almost hit him and time stopped, but YJ does, she is constantly thinking about how much time has passed in each world. And time is such a tricky concept; is it an intrinsic aspect of reality or is it our imposition on the world, an intellectualization, a mathematical construct that allows us to impose order on the world, allows us to understand reality. Phenomenon without an ordering principal is randomness, chaos. KC talks about this both at the end of episode 3 and at the episode 4, hence my confusion about which episode I had seen it in.
Episode 3: “Just because you say it isn’t a lie won’t make it the truth. Miss OYJ, You’re skillfully talking only about this phenomenon, while leaving out the truly important,the logical connection behind that.”
Episode 4: “Everything that could not be explained in my life in all those things make sense .. Things that had no logical connection suddenly have a connection. A logical connection that could explain everything…”
I was struck on this re-watch with how KC’s time did not stop until he put his thoughts into words. We could tell he was thinking about this, but only when he doubted the reality and spoke that doubt aloud (“it is a completely fabricated world”) did time stop in that world.
Anyway, its words like ‘phenomena’ and ‘logical’ and the importance of the spoken word (or really written word since it is a comic) that has taken me down that path. Of course, I am relying on the subbing but still, it has been fun to think about things like the pre-Socratics and the nature of time again…even if I do not remember much of what I used to know… Thanks again for the opportunity.
@salteddust,
No, the two words are not connected. Saturn is the latin form of Cronus as you wrote. The greek word is Κρόνος. Although Chronos is Χρόνος. I don’t have my lexicon with me and I cannot look it up on the Internet, but I don’t know such a connection and I am Greek myself.
I read your comment about Saturn eating his children in order to stop future / time. This is a first time, I come across such an explanation. The myth says that Κρόνος was eating his children because he didn’t want anyone to take away his power and authority.
Is that the same? I don’t think it is. It has more to do with status quo and not about time.
As for W, in my opinion, the world came to a stop, when a secret that shouldn’t be told was revealed.
It was like the άρρητα / unutterable came into light when they shouldn’t. That’s why the Mystics / Μύσται in Eleysinian Mysteries didn’t reveal anything to the world about them. In order to learn, you should earn your right to enter the Temple of the Goddess Δημήτερ / Δήμητρα / Dimitra. The same άρρητα existed also for the Pythagoreans and what the ancient greek philosopher Pythagoras was teaching them. We do know that they were “listening” to these teachings and that higher Math / Geometry was also involved.
Kang Chul became aware of a truth that was not ready to hear. He was not prepared for it. He was not a mystic yet. The World stopped because of that. The realization that he was not a human being but an art structure made him stop everything.
Aristotle was the fist one to make logical constructions using a sentence.
And your comment reminded me of such a structure. I was reading about it on my Philosophy module. You are trying to decipher W’s unutterable / άρρητα by making a logical structure in an sentence. It is good to see that on B.O.D. I like your train of thought!
P.S. The pre-Socratics philosophers said many things about Cosmogony / Κοσμογονία. I would like to know which one you read that said things about the nature of time. Are you talking about Heraclitus and what he said about Change?
@Cleopatra and @salteddust,
You’re both right.
In the mythology, Saturn eats his children so none of them will grow up to wrest his power from him. He can reign supreme forever. However, the Goya painting itself has many interpretations partly because the painting itself was never named by Goya. He wasn’t the one who called it “Saturn.” As far as I know (and I know little), his estate called it “Saturn” for the purposes of easy identification after he died.
@salteddust’s concept of Father Time is one of the many interpretations of the painting. Father Time is eating one of his own to stop time.
Another interpretation of the painting is it’s about Spain eating its own children by embroiling itself in so many unwinnable wars. Yet another interpretation is the children represent the people of Spain being eaten by a much bigger foreign power.
If you ask me — and in context of this kdrama “W: Two Worlds” — I say it’s about the creator destroying its own creation because it’s threatening to take over his life. Before his creation consumes him body and soul, the creator will destroy and finish it.
But then, I can also interpret the painting as political. It’s about an ideology which begins to “eat” and destroy its own supporters. Like the French Revolution claimed its leader and proponent Robespierre.
So the painting itself has many interpretations.
This is a common mistake to confuse Chronos with Kronos, though.
Chronos = time, opposite of kairos.
Kronos = Zeus’ father, one of the Titans. The Roman co-opted Kronos from the Greeks and renamed him Saturn.
It’s similar to us Americans confusing:
Deutsch = Germans from Deutschland
Dutch = Dutch from Holland/Netherlands
There’s this region in Pennsylvania that’s known as Pennsylvania Dutch, although the original settlers are from Germany. It really should be called Pennsylvania German.
@Cleo, @salteddust,
It is simpler than a relationship with Saturn and besides Saturn, as you found it is not a god of time, it is a Titan, father of the Gods of Olympus, who by fear that they do not exceed his power devoured his children.
Everything is based on the main element in W to know, never to be lost in the story. The real world and the world of manhwa are similar in terms of physical laws, space and time. However, the main phenomenon subverts the physical laws by more arbitrary laws which are those of the logic of a story, of a manhwa.
At the exact moment when Kang Chul fully accepts the idea that he and his reality are a fiction (he says it out loud, so the audience can understand it)… Time stops. But truly… it is the story that stops, it is not a stop of time in the physical sense. Its revelation triggers a law from the fiction. The paranormal phenomenon generates effects that have a meaning, unlike physical laws that depend only on calculations.
The laws of the manhwa have thus multiple ways to manifest themselves, but always according to a logic of narration. And once a phenomenon has manifested itself, it then does so in the same way and under the same conditions, unless an unknown variable intervenes, of course.
For this one: If the main character understands that he or she is from a fiction, the story stops, a large portal opens to reality.
We can understand the logic of this. If the hero knows that he is a fiction, his awakening and independence no longer allows him to act as a fiction, the story stops. If he awakens, he becomes more real at the same time, he ceases to be entirely a fiction. And a portal to reality opens. This is the way that the paranormal phenomenon chooses because it is what corresponds most to its logic. I do indeed say “chooses”. Causality is produced by an interpretation, instead of a physical and mathematical determinism.An interpretation that normally belongs to the field of psychology, philosophy, and mainly of storytelling.
The same was for Yeon-Joo time acceleration, truly it’s “move the plot forward”. Else, she couldn’t see her watch become mad, accelerated, while she’s not accelerated herself. An arbitrary choice in the phenomenon. As she’s real in the fiction, unlike Kang Chul, the phenomenon chooses to makes her in the situation like a reader. She don’t live these two months, she jumps to the next comics box. While Kang Chul lives two months in the hospital.
And any crazy plot-twist or weird things we get in the story always have an explanation you can make deduction from this kind of logic. Knowing that, the writer push all this to extrem limits, to surprise even the most hardcore spectators.
Dear @Packmule3,
Thank you for your comment and setting things straight.
I would like to make myself clear, if that was not the case yesterday:
I was only talking about the mythology aspect and not about the painting. The reason I didn’t say anything about Goya’s painting is because I haven’t done my research about it!
The things is that in W: the creator we know so far is not the true creator per se, but a pseudo one! 🙂
@WE,
I agree with you that the story stops and not the W world per se.
Later on in the story several parameters are entering the Logic of W world and we get to see more variables in the equation. I am more of an algebra person. I like equations very very much.
I would say that when Kang Chul realizes that W world is a manga world a portal opens to reality or to make things interesting:
A link is opening in order to connect two different realities / worlds / dimensions.
Yeon Joo is an example of how a person who is not from W’s world, but from our dimension, is entering W’s world without her own volition and the paradox, it entails. She has to adjust in a way that for the viewers reflect as time accelaration something we would logically expect from a webtoon.
I really like this Writernim because she defies many theories in order to explore her ideas. I believe she is a true pioneer.
@Cleo, Hi!
We can indeed say that Song Jae-Jung is a pioneer. I give some points why :
– Around 2010-2015, there were a lot of kdrama with time travel. It was the fashion! Except they all had the same principle: someone travels in time at the beginning of the drama, then comes back to the original time at the end of the drama. She broke that to make dynamic time travel stories, with multiple trips and time impacts. Nothing new for sure, but unheard of at this time in kdramas. After that, kdramas with elaborated SF of this kind were numerous.
– For Nine Time Travel, however, she incorporated an additional idea, the memory recall (thanks to which she produces a lot of emotion).
– With W, a groundbreaking concept. There are not many films with this type of mise en abyme. None with a comic book, and not with such a logical and thorough exploitation of the system. Otherwise, my favorite is the movie “The Last Action Hero.” It’s a 90’s movie with Schwarzenegger that pushes the delirium far. With the director John McTiernan, who made the biggest cool movies that everyone knows (predator, die hard).
– With Memories of the Alhambra, it’s again a new concept. We had stories taking place in a video game world, or an artificial reality (like Matrix), but not this principle of juxtaposition of augmented reality.
– There are of course the famous “multi-contextual” scenes that I often talk about and that are her signature.
– Finally, a good balance between intellect and emotion. The problem with these complex and cerebral stories is that they lose emotion. Generally, the emotion that we manage to keep is of course all that is around the “smart”, “mind blowing”, “plot-twists”, “suspense”, finally what makes the jaw drop. But she also manages to keep the soft emotional aspect, romance, scenes that make you cry, drama, etc. And in the case of W, with a big dose of comedy, which does not short-circuit the dramatic intensity.
@WEenchanteur I will have to try to find more of Song Jae-Jung’s dramas. Very cool to hear about her.
I was thinking as I showered this morning about the comments about story, story line, Logos and I realized how often Korean dramas honor books and make them integral to the story. To keep myself from binge-watching ‘W’ again I looked for a Lee Jong Suk drama I had not yet seen and started watching ‘Romance is a Bonus Book’. Of course since it takes place in a publishing house, books are everywhere (libraries), but it took a couple of episodes for me to realize that the book cut-out at the end also contained and commented on the story. And of course in that drama the emphasis is not just on the words of the story or the plot of the story or the poetic introductions to books, but the art of the book cover. There are the gorgeous cut-outs of the fairy tales of the preface to ‘Its OK to not be OK’, and the poetry in “I’ll go to you when the weather is nice” and in ‘Goblin the Great and Lonely God’, and probably lots more that I cannot think of or do not know of. I can think of no American TV series or movie that makes books or poetry an integral part of the story (very possibly reflecting my haphazard knowledge of film). One of my entry dramas was ‘Rookie Historian Goo Hae-Ryung’ where in one of the early scenes a crowd of young women are excitedly waiting for the newest of a serialized novel to appear. That scene struck me enough that I looked up a little history where I discovered the amazingly early high literacy rate of early Korea due to the alphabetization of the spoken language (80*+ I believe). Perhaps that’s why. I have not watched as many Chinese dramas but I do not think I have seen this there; paintings sometimes play a role (the map in Love in the In Between, the portrait in Princess Weiyoung), but more as a plot device. My Japanese drama watching is very limited since I cannot stand the high-pitched moshi-moshi voice the female actress seem to adopt, but when I think of the movies I have watched (by Kurosawa or Itami) or the anime (Miyasaki) the gorgeous visuals often take precedence. Anyway, I was just thinking about the role of story line and books in Korean drama (based on my limited viewing).
@Cleopatra: I have not read the Pre-Socratics since college. Although I have a book somewhere and can ‘almost’ picture the cover, ever since we redid the floors in the living room and I let my husband and youngest son put the books back in the bookshelves I have not been able to find books. (I should not have done that, they absolutely ignored my careful labeling of which self on which bookshelf every box should go!) So I do not even know where to find that one. Probably buried in the second layer behind the visible books. I was not thinking of Heraclitus per se, more of the pre-Socratics in general and the huge role they played in modern scientific thought (hence ruminations about the nature of time). But when I think of them more specifically I do think of the ‘koan’ of not being able to step in the same river twice and what that says about reality. (Although I would not have been able to come up with his name, I am terrible with names and it has been too long…).
@packmule3:
When I watched ‘W’ the first time I had a lot more sympathy for OSM. “The creator ^should^ be able to destroy what he/she creates!” And the idea that he is fighting against the deadlines imposed by having to put out the comic and the alcoholism around that (so fighting for his life). This time I have gotten sucked in by the nature of time (in the drama — thank you @WEnchanteur — and The Nature of Time), so I am not thinking so much about OSM, but I do not look at him the same way this time through. I just don’t have much sympathy for him. He looks as deranged as the Goya figure. The creator as destroyer controls too much I think, at least as a concept (Shiva-like) if not in this drama, and is frightening.