The thread is open for discussions. Watch out for spoilers.
Gifs from yeorims’ tumblr
source: yeorim’s tumblr
I saw this rehabilitation of the image of Heedo’s mom coming a mile away from this screenwriter. I said the mother was just another careerwoman caught in the times. She had to do what she had to do. WE all did. And like her, I make no excuses. That’s why I wear the label “bitch” like a badge of honor and named this blog for bitches.
And shame on those who try to obfuscate, deny, dismiss and erase what it means to be a woman. #DefineAWoman #ImAWoman #WomensHistoryMonth #Biology
This show might not deliver on the romance department, and so be it.
But I appreciate its spotlight on women, especially mothers and daughters, and sisterhood. It’s what we need to see, especially now when our hard-fought rights, privileges, accomplishments, and spaces are being threatened.
Enjoy the show!
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Couldn’t agree more queen @packmule3
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
I can imagine how great it would be if you could write what you’ve highlighted on the spotlight for women in this drama.. (in case some of lurkers here failed to see it)
🤭🤭
You nailed it @packmule3,. I’ll be frank. In all of the recent media reports nobody is mentioning menstrual changes, cramps,weight gain, the possibility of thrombosis when using birth control. Neither are they discussing menopause, post partum depression, endometriosis, cervical,ovarian and breast cancers. And up until recently women were treated like smaller men when it came down to conventional medicine. The very word hysterical is a pejoritive for women,
And if we are mother’s and work outside the home we are guilted.
And given all of the emphasis on looks, heaven forbid if we’re fat, plain, and do not meet standard beauty conventions.
We need to remember that HeDo’s Mom is a widow who must support her family. I am sure that in S Korea at the time, working women were expected to be single and that like today in that culture were expected to work long hours. Her Mom had to show an icy demeanor at work to survive in a public facing job. Our other women including the other moms also had varying degrees of hardship while adjusting to societal norms. Ultimately this drama showed women helping each other and making brave decisions.
You done aood @packmule3!
Well said @PM3!!! I especially love how the mother-daughter relationships and dynamics were shown here. Yurim and her compassionate mom; Heedo and her professional mom; Seungwan and her kickass mom. They may not realize it now (Seungwan eventually did) but they have something of their moms in them.
And even if the love story does not end the way we want it, the nostalgia romance is memorable and for keeps. Looking forward to the weekend!
Thanks @pkml3! I second what you all say!
Yes @Janey, we have the nostalgic romance to enjoy, regardless of the present day situation. 🙂
I wrote previously about how to raise a child you need a partner to fill in spots you’re unable to. Always sticking to traditional male/female roles isn’t necessary, it’s just that one person can’t be everything. If the partner is absent, there’s usually a village that can step in. Although MC has a mother and father, he seems to be absent with work. when she’s not in a good place with HD, she has her grandmother to run to.
Have they mentioned why it’s only HD and her mom? I assume they’ve moved for mom’s work, I wish she had a mother or mother in law or brother or anyone that could’ve moved in with them to help carry some of her load. It seems to me HD’s mom and BYJ are not only coworkers but comrades in “raising” HD. I actually wouldn’t mind seeing more of their interactions. Since everyone is throwing out theories, maybe BYJ falls in love with the mom and she declines and that’s why it’s awkward when she brings him up in present day 😂😂
@Birdie007, I think that the whole
@Birdie007, I think the incident of the gift dress showed how out of touch MC’s Dad was. Her Grandmother, HeDo’s mom is a far better grandmother to MC that a mom to HeDo. Although I agree with @packmule3 about Mom’s working outside the home,I am still troubled by her relationship with HeDo. Mom is definitely not affectionate. Even when she is doing right(the chairs), Mom is wanting to HeDo.She too feels absent even if she’s there. Coach seems to be more maternal, but she,too,is problematic. We have an absence that also makes HeDo a somewhat problematic mother. That’s why MC ran away to her softened grandmother.so we have history repeating itself but affection skipping a generation. Mom becomes a better grandmother. That’s where this drama is so realistic. So my romance is that of moms and children…
thanks @packmule3… That’s true, the mother-daughter relationships on this show are so touching. The slow burn of HD and YJ’s romance and the friendship formed by the five characters are wonderful to watch but the mother-daughter scenes are the ones that made me cry.
Ep 12 ended Jan 1, 2000 so HD and YJ are now 24-20 so I guess we’re getting the part where they “hurt each other”? I hope that narrative happens in like a quarter of an episode so we can move to the 25-21 phase. LOL.
@OAL, you’ve hit on what has kept me feeling not as happy as I could have felt about Hee Do and Mum. “Mom is definitely not affectionate.” – definitely. She loves HD, but her love does not extend to finding a more diplomatic way to speak with her girl or even to communicate at all!
Maybe it’s the ‘old school’ way where the parent is always right, ‘just do what I say and accept what I do for your good’? But over and again, with a smart thinking child like HD, Mum could see that there was misunderstanding and she chose to remain silent. Even over something ‘caring’ like the chairs … there could have been explanations about the chairs instead of silence. Imagine how much grief could have been avoided if she’d only left a little note to say she’d taken the chairs to be fixed.
Yes she is an absent mum even when she’s present. She’s not giving her full attention to her child’s needs, expecting instead that the child should grow up and understand HER needs. I found that part jarring.
It’s fortunate that HD is as forgiving and warm-hearted as she is.
Hee Do seems to be a better mother than her mother was.
Episode 13 – It feels like a lot happens, but perhaps not. We have funny and fun youthful stuff and troubling vacillation. What we have foreseen is starting to come to pass. Sadly even at beginning, we foresee the ending and we are already in the present so we know the now.
At least the national team coach gets to change.
LOL Yi Jin being jealous. I have to watch that part again.
@GB yes the jealousy of Yijin is awesome to watch. The comedic side of Yijin is refreshing and fun in this drama. I also loved the part when YJ mistook HD’s removing the thread on his coat as a potential kiss. The way she shoved all the buns in his mouth and he shouting after her with buns in his mouth.
I’m glad they kept with the comedic side of this drama. It keeps it light-hearted.
I also loved at the part where MC comforted her mum/HeeDo and scolded YJ like how we would do so. She represented us 😀
On YJ, he is trying really hard to keep his distance but as per his sunbae’s and HD mum’s advice. He really didn’t want her to be hurt because of him. He tried to get out of his department but it was rejected. He is a complicated situation to be in. Hearing HD feeling hurt at his rejection tipped him over on his wavering. He definitely has feeings for HD but is holding back as hard as he can to protect her.
We are reminded by YR and HD that nothing lasts forever.
I have a bad something will happen when they are 25-21 to tear them apart, which is why it is so significant. Sigh…I prepared for tears in the next two episodes.
Well said @Packmule3!
I just finished watchoing Episode 13. I also agree that Back Yi Jin tried to keep an distance with HeeDo because everyone was telling him so.
The thing is that Hee Do didn’t want that. That was the reason he was wavering towards it. I am not sure how this story is going to end.
I liked that Hee-do and Yu-rim could overcome their slump and fight for the team in the team competitions. It was great to see the team reunited for the last time – even the fencer who left.
I am not looking forward to Hee-do and Yu-rim going to different teams and being competitors again, although at a certain level it’s inevitable.
So will YJ get into big trouble with YBS sports, with HD or both? I’m nervous.
I’m happy for the drama to end at ep13! Waver and throw the cap to the wind/snow! But it’s not 25-21 yet. Bracing myself for the tough times to come.
I appreciated that the show did some work about defining “love” in episode 13. I think there was a belief that when YiJin tells HeeDo that he loves her, that it was a confession. I don’t think he looked at it that way, given how conflicted he acted with that New Year’s Eve kiss. And HeeDo contrasted his love with her version of love. Then to close the episode, YiJin states he will be pursuing HeeDo’s version of love. I’m curious to know how this type of love looks in Ep. 14.
@Skayt – I also like the different types of love presented here between HD an YJ. At the bridge, he did not say saranghe which is normally what we know as “I love you” but something like “I have love for you”. Something that is from his side and does not need to be reciprocated. Something pure and with deep affection. And as they get closer, it has morphed into a romantic love.
Kiss scene analysis – shot in a narrow alley, with high walls, kind of boxing them in and barbed wire even on the right side. All foreshadowing how tough it will be. But a gate closed can be opened, a kiss given can be returned and shared, maybe a challenging relationship can be overcomed.
HD YJ fighting!
@Skayt, @Janey, that’s what I thought too. So I guess when he told her he loves her during that bridge/rainbow scene, he really meant it when he said he was not asking anything more than to make HD happier knowing that there’s someone who loves her. As YJ has shown, he is someone who roots for her and wishes the best for her, someone who wants the best experiences and the best life for her. Could young love be so pure?
“Nothing lasts forever” gets thrown at the viewers again, but this time it’s the 20-year-old HD that mentions it. And Yurim agrees adding that “It’ll probably hurt if you lose it all. But what matters is that you’ve had it at one point.”
So the kiss in the snow happened, and it’s beautiful but it’s kind of sad too.
I agree with you @Janey.
I think YiJin developed romantic feelings for HeeDo the more he was interacting with her. He had also in his mind the warning both his Sunbae and HeeDo’s mother gave him, but also others from work, with the last one being the Coach.
I think Yi Jin was holding back himself. HeeDo though, cannot understand yet the complications. If they fall apart this time, it would be that.
HeeDo wants it all and doesn’t hold herself back. HeeDo has learn to act first and then think.
While Yi Jin on the other hand, is thinking first and then acts. Hence his line “You are driving me crazy.”
They were both miserable, but Yi Jin was suffering more, mostly because he was the one denying his feelings with HeeDo and what HD brought to his life. I think he will suffer more when they will put that distance between them…
While waiting for Episode 13…
Fun Thoughts
We see that despite all warnings from HD’s Mum, Coach Yang, Sunbae Jung Hyuk, and in spite of his own good sense, YJ is not proof against the temptation to give in to his feelings when HD keeps presenting herself before him. I believe that his initial fear was not that she’d kiss him again, but that he would not be able to stop himself from kissing her back. It was hard enough for him the first time.
Then we are given the saga of JW and his Mum’s car. Ji Woong took the car out to impress his friends, without his mother’s permission and I wonder if he had even passed his driving test, since he couldn’t park.
1)It was the wrong time, when JW was not yet ready or competent to drive.
2)He only managed to drive slowly, got scared and had to go back home.
3)He lost his parking spot and had to wait. (He emotionally blackmailed HD to wait with him so everyone stayed waiting for the whole day!)
4)JW tried multiple times to park, but failed every time. YJ was not available to help him.
5)The parking of the car required thinking out of the box (by Hee Do).
6)The successful parking was accomplished by a large team of people working in unison.
Might this be an analogy?
1)For instance might Hee Do, and even YJ still be unready to date? Actually I feel the answer is yes, since their situation raises much disapproval even before they start dating.
They may start the car and drive (begin their relationship) but they will need to embark on an agreed destination and park successfully (enter into a committed relationship) in order for it to be a success.
2)In parallel with 2) above, although they may go slow, they have to come home to the fact that she’s an athlete and he’s a sports reporter, whose job it is to report news about her.
3)Although they want to park (stay together for the long-term), there is no guarantee that the parking lot will be there (there will be challenges that will get in their way).
They will probably have to wait for something to change, in the hope that they can be together.
4)The saga of JW and his Mum’s car shows once again that no matter how many times they try, they will not be able to park (be in a long-term relationship). Even their friends will not be able to help.
5) and 6) may not happen or may yet be revealed in later episodes. We do not even know at this stage, if adult Hee Do and her husband are still together.
It would be interesting to see if 5) and 6) might play out in the OTP relationship. 🙂
Being In-between
– Yi Jin wavers between being a reporter and a close friend with HD. Gone is the time when it was HD who was confused about their relationship (she had said she was jealous of him, she liked him, she hated him, LOL) while he was so cool about it. He knew even then that he loved her, although he didn’t require her to respond in the same way.
Now, he’s the one caught in between. Somewhere in the early episodes he said that HD reminded him of himself when he’d been 18 and reckless. So now we see his reckless side that has lain dormant for a while, arise to disregard the warnings against getting too close to his subject.
– YJ’s other dilemma is whether to be just a friend or a boyfriend.
– HD is in between being a child and an adult. In age she is considered legally an adult, able to drink alcohol. However she’s still very much a child as is obvious in how she delights in collecting her stickers with each bun she buys.
Unlike YJ, the adult with many considerations, HD, like a typical ‘child’ does not waver. She’s a straight shooter when it comes to what she wants (don’t we often see kids making direct demands). When she kissed him she said it wasn’t a mistake. She wanted a change for herself. I wonder if she meant that she wanted to change their relationship as far as she was concerned.
– She proceeds to gamble and is in between either winning all or losing all. But she does not consider that her winning to have YJ as her bf, means he loses in the area of his professionalism. But people in their early 20s with little life experience don’t think of that!
– However even when she wins, she and YR agree that it will not last. No matter what the situation, they are in between having, and losing.
YR declares that to have had a relationship at least once was something in itself. We know that they probably only have until they reach or just pass the ages of 25 and 21 to be ‘together’. I imagine that Hee Do chose ‘2521’ for her workshop in memory of the year which was a watershed in their lives.
Although I’d like their couple happiness to last longer than just a few months, I’ll settle for a short but good run. I hope that Show will give us a true and intensely meaningful relationship for the little time that they have together. At least I hope we won’t be privy to many fights and separations (which is possible because they are so young and HD has a temper!) 😬 🙄 😅 😂
@Cleo and @Skayt – yes, it started as a pure youthful love.
@GB – what a great analogy on the car vis a vis HD-YJ relationship… slowly navigating the streets (scary!) and the ultimate challenge of parallel parking. I laughed so hard (I do not like parking cars myself). There will be many tries but it takes a village (many people) to give them the lift they need to park in place. Ah, I am turning hopeful now for the ending and then I remember that YJ is not in those parking scenes. So if this goes bad, the memories of the relationship will be in its right place but only as a memory.
I forgot to mention on the ep13 kiss scene – Heedo wears a cap that says “every moment is special”. Ok, Show! Thanks for underlining this again and again. It’s not even subliminal messaging anymore!
@GB, One overriding theme of this drama is the effect the IMF crisis had on the people of Korea. YJ experienced it full out in his family bankruptcy. He had the majority of responsibility as the oldest child and had to sacrifice college, his family and his youth. His family separation weighed heavily on him. He could not even think of romance. He was also well aware of cultural norms and wouldn’t dare get entangled with a minor. For him, the stakes were too high. Coupled with that, even as a reporter he could not show favoritism and was walking a thin line between his first good job(as a rare high school graduate) and his close c relationship to HeeDo. We see what her mother has to do to keep her b livelihood. YJ must contemplate doing similar things. We can see how conflicted he is. 9f course we feel for HeeDo. She is our heroine. But, in the scheme of things, the conditions of the time take precedent and are beyond the control of our characters. In the end they have to face reality and make choices that they cannot like. Even in these episodes, we see that HD, her daughter and her mother have gone on. We do not yet know what happened to YJ and the others. I am sure that we’ll find out in the last episodes, where I’m sure, that in some cases we’ll be left in tears.
Hi @Janey @OAL
Yes, I noted the words on the cap as well. Don’t we just know the special moment LOL.
I did wonder about the whole bunch of people moving the car. Just the 4 friends together couldn’t manage anything if they lacked the skills to drive. Having a car means nothing, when one cannot drive or park.
Although YJ and HD love each other, it’s not meant to be.
@OAL, I agree that the circumstances make it most inadvisable for YJ to do anything to jeopardise what he has gained. He also has the goal of reuniting his family. That will be unlikely should he lose his job.
Yes, we wonder why we only see Hee Do and get the story of her past through Min Chae’s reading of the diaries. At times I even wonder if we are seeing a garbled version of the past filtered through the understanding of Min Chae, or whether what we see happening in 1998-2000 did happen.
I’ve presumed that only Shin Jae Kyung remains in the old town and that the younger generation went their separate ways after college. Even Hee Do may not be living all that near her Mum. I have no clue. In any case, it seemed normal to not see the other friends, except that even with YR there seems to be no sign of maintaining contact.
We prepare for all exigencies for the end of this series, since a lot can happen in 20 years.
TVN just released a video.
No things will turn for the worst. Most likely History will repeat itself. HeeDo will follow her mother’s footsteps.
Prepare your self. Poor Back Yi Jin…
Ep14 epilogue- we knew it but it still broke my heart to hear it. Big sigh…
This ep is gut wrenching for Yurim. This is her story arc and ep14 is hers just like ep12 is Seungwan’s.
So much to unpack but I need to grieve a bit for our 1st leads.
Episode 14 – I was just saying that a lot can happen in 20 years, and it has started happening in 2000. I thought it was a great episode overall, although the tears will fall.
*SPOILER*
*SPOILER*
It’s good to know that what we see of the past really did happen and the event were not re-interpreted by Min Chae. We get a lot more with this episode although MC could not find the next diary/journal to read.
In 2009 (when HD is 29) she’s already married. That makes Min Chae at the most 13 years old, because YJ of 2009 said he was congratulating HD on her marriage late. She might have been married since 2008. This show’s present day is 2021.
@Janey, I loved the HD-YR interactions. How I’d cry over Madrid too!
@GB – it was good to see YJ and HD on the peak of their respective careers in 2009 video. But was it with a price? I am glad that YJ did not die though and I feel strongly that he is still alive in the present time. We will see in the next episodes how their relationship move to 25-21 (I assume – ha! We get only 1-2 ep of the actual title!). Then a wrap up to the present day.
I saw this video on his interview with Esquire, NJH said to we have waited long for this “movie”, pls keep the expectations up and look forward to it (4:49). The translation says “movie” vs drama but i think it’s 25/21. What do you think?
https://youtu.be/6ocdkrwbSjA
@Janey, he references the movie “Remember,” which he was in that aired in 2021. I wonder if this interview was done in 2021?
@skayt – I think it’s recent interview but you’re right, the movie “Remember” has not been shown yet. Dang, I knew I was grabbing at straws. LOL!!!
So if that’s going to be released after 25/21, then he’s following his cadence from “Start Up” which was followed up by “Josee”. Not a bad strategy since the his name recall right now is high.
Just finished watching Episode 14.
Things always come with a price. That was the message for us here.
Yu Rim had to take action in order to save her family. People don’t get that. They are easy to characterize someone as “traitor”, but YR was right. The country didn’t suffer. She does / did.
Anyway, it was sad to have validation that HeeDo married another person. I saw a mini video on my timeline earlier and it was a shocker. That’s why I wrote my previous comment above.
The good thing, Yi Jin seems to handle himself way better in 2009 timeline. He is more sure about himself and it seems he has built a name for as a sportscaster. Their inner and spoken thoughts showed that they are indeed supporting each other.
Let us see one how happy the next episode will be. I am not waiting for a present HEA. The way the story is going for some time now, shows us that is not the right choice.
As for HeeDo’s fire. In 2009 timeline she still had it.
Did you see that @Fern? When did she lose it then?
@Cleo – agree that HD’s fire was still there in 2009 and she and YJ have already parted ways and they seems happy for each other’s successes. You can still see their connection in that TV video even if they are not there FTF. It’s the eyes of KTR and NJH that spoke volumes in those scenes.
But her present persona is so flat. So this may be part of the wrap up as you’ve previously stated before. I still want a squad reunion even as friends.
What made HeeDo marry? Who and Why or how did she fall in love with someone else if there was still the lingering emotions for YJ. This is the part I can’t quite get.
Still, she would have moved on, met someone she really loved. And YJ is part of the memory of her beautiful past. Don’t we IRL, move on from our past boyfriends, if we had any?
Many movies has been made of youthful romance where the couple do not end up together. On Your Wedding Day is one, though I loved the Chinese version My Love instead.
Nonetheless, it is a realistic portrayal of the times they had to grow into. The struggles they had to face because of the situation their family is going through. Sometimes love needs to be given up to survive and protect.
Still, I have some lingering hope for a logical plot twist. Can’t wait to see how the last two episodes will pan out.
Agapimeni @Janey!
How are you? I do hope you are okay!
I agree with you about that 2009 interview where YJ and HD’s eyes showed volums. It was too obvious that they still have had feelings for each other. Even though, Yi Jin had a professional persona on, he turned to explain to the audience that they have had a history together when he was a rookie reporter and HeeDo started to make a name for herself!
They both said about supporting each other, keeping at least one thing from their youth. That they will always support each other.
So, how are you supporting someone when you are not near of him / her?
@Janey I talked with one of my friends and she was okay the way the story was going, while I was saying that I am not. We agreed that we disagree.
I also don’t like that the adult HeeDo is so different from her younger self. It is okay to become mature and handle some difficult situations in life, but a trait you have had since you are younger stays with you. Even though is dormant, it becomes active from time to time.
Mama Shin’s icy persona can validate that. She lost her husband who was also her loved one. What thing did HeeDo lose in order to become like this?
I don’t know what the Director told the actress who plays adult HeeDo, but the way she is portraying HeeDo means that was asked from her.
So, we now have an idea why the Squad is not in the present time hanging out together. Still HeeDo and YuRim continue to be friends. I am sad that we didn’t get to see at all JiWoong and Seung Wan or even being mentioned at all.
What did happen to all of them? I think everyone wants to learn if YuRim and JiWoong managed to endure this long distance relationship or not.
Did Seung Wan manage to enter college? I do hope we will get to see that in the next episodes! I don’t like to have questions unanswered. I do hope they will answer to us…
@Cleopatra, yes we will see how and maybe when Hee-Do loses her fire – or hides it.
The move of YuRim to Russia was something I wasn’t expecting. It looks as though Hee-Do beat her at the Madrid games. HD said it was the most difficult win. I wonder how that affected Yu-Rim’s status in Russia? HD knew that YR was dependent on her wins to pay her family’s debt. Both had to be thick skinned to compete against each other – in the same way that YJ had to be thick skinned and do the report on Yu-Rim in order to do his job. I wonder if we’ll see that it devastates HD as YJ was devastated?
Am with you @Grace. I wonder how HeeDo Ends up marrying another, what causes her to part from YJ, what became of YJ and the others, and what happened to HeeDo’s daughter regarding ballet. I think that this is a sign of a good drama when we as an audience become so engaged with the characters(not only the main ones).I think we are not getting a sugar coated ending. Will definitely prepare myself…
Premature Review LOL. Heading into the Final Stretch
Now after our squees and squeals, compliments and complaints, I look back upon this series before the last 2 episodes. It’s premature to do a review and it will be interesting/funny/frustrating if the penultimate and final episodes totally upend my point of view, however I’d like to put down the thoughts that come along before I forget or change my mind (at BOD we can happily admit our mistakes and change our minds!!)
One thing we found odd in this Show was that we didn’t know what the Writer/PD wanted us to think or know. We were sure that there was a message somewhere, but we didn’t get it or we got conflicting messages and we were/are confused. That sort of marred our viewing pleasure. However the youthful storyline is so engaging, that most of us continue watching.
The other thing that might have set our teeth on edge, and was a source of conflict (to watch or to drop?) was the apparent ending of 2021 which was already set out for us from at least Episode 2, if not Episode 1, which we could tell, contradicted all the sweet stuff going on in 1998-2001.
I was not as bothered as I might have been, because at this stage I still feel that:
– Show didn’t lie. So I don’t harshly berate Show for trolling us… not to the extent that ‘HP2’ trolled or ‘A Poem a Day’ did, etc. I felt that from the beginning, we were warned, and clued into the ending or near ending… that HD did not marry YJ. As I mentioned before, even the song ‘Twenty-five, twenty-one’ gave full warning.
– Show has remained consistent (in all except 1 point). What it has consistently done is to portray the sweet growing up scenes of young adults and their possible relationships with their parents, family friends, each other and at the same time, juxtaposed these sweet reminisces with the practical, objective reality of now. In effect this reflects what we do when we remember our youth… where we’ve had relatively good times in our adolescence and young adulthood, we remember with greater intensity (we noted the intense colours of 1998 onwards) and through rose-tinted lenses. We also look at ourselves now and see that the people we were then, have made us the people we are now, and it’s not all rosy but not all bad.
– The message could be precisely that: ‘this is life’ … It seems to say that the bright, fresh, colourful times of our youth, will hold promise and hope, even in the face of crisis/loss/failure. We will have the opportunities to make our choices, some of them painful, to live and to love and also the opportunities to take the consequences of our decisions. We do not know what will happen as we start off, but we make the best we can of each moment, and it’s only from hindsight, 20 years down the road, that we can look back and see the path we took and how windingly it went.
– Show has also consistently given us the premise for each change that is taking or will take place. In this area, the writing has been good. We could see a mile away that YR and her parents were ever at odds over sharing the care and protection of the family, and that now that she’s 20 years old, she can expect her parents to respect her decision, as she makes the most difficult, unwanted choice to leave Korea and save her family.
We applaud her for growing up so well, and for her self-sacrifice. This makes up for much of her nastiness towards Hee Do when she acted out of fear/insecurity. Like HD said, YR was sometimes, surprisingly so mature.
The saddest scene for me was when YR had to face HD in Madrid. I’d like to have watched that match and to have seen them shake hands at the end of it.
We also understand that JW never wavered as far as YR was concerned. His determination to stick with her, to earn enough to visit her in Russia, etc was true to his character. We have only to see if that effort was indeed put into action and if it bore fruit.
Similarly Seung Wan remains in the background but consistent, bucking the trend of being the good, smart kid, who would follow the expected route. We have yet to know how she turned out, and whether she is no longer ‘bored’.
Mum-Anchor Shin has from the beginning foreshadowed the plight of Yi Jin. Her relationship with Coach Chan Yang Mi was continually highlighted and then juxtaposed with that of YJ and HD/YR. We knew that if YJ could not change his job or his department, that he would have to continually do what Anchor Shin did. After HD had suffered so much distance with her own mother, it was fitting(?) that she should not also have to suffer that distance from her bf/spouse. We hope that she’s on good terms with her husband or was!
Min Chae has become so engaged and sucked into the story of her mum’s youth, she empathises with her. But she also has to realise, that if her mum had married Yi Jin, Min Chae herself would not exist.
The greatest mystery among the few unanswered questions, that remain is: what happened to HD between 2009 and 2021. I looked up the oldest age for fencers, and it seems that one can keep on competing even into one’s fifties, if one so wishes. In 2021, I’d estimate HD’s age to be 41 years. She’s still remembered even by young people, which means she might have retired only in the last 5-10 years, after Min Chae was born.
She does not seem to have suffered any major injuries or be in ill-health, therefore she has voluntarily opted to leave the fencing circle, to pursue a quiet life making chairs, while taking care of Min Chae. It was also probably the right decision to make, since she knew the negative effect that her own relatively ‘motherless’ childhood had on herself.
I gather from the tone of the present day scenes, that HD and her mum look back with fondness rather than with regret. The sharp edges of pain have been smoothened, and even some good memories have been lost. So too it is for us.
Our joys and pains of now may be transformed twenty years in the future. We live with our present, regardless of what our youthful hopes and dreams might have been, understanding that gaining or losing our dreams will not equate with success or failure or even determine our future contentment. Not a grand message, perhaps, but still hopeful, in the face of our uncertain times. 🙂
ahhh so beautifully written @GB :’)
like I also wrote in the previous thread, the messages of this drama might be too much, up to the point we as the viewers don’t really understand what they want us to focus on.
I seriously don’t know what to write or to think now. I just finished watching eps 14, with tears. I felt the vibe of “it’s the end of the era” between the squad.
What I think I want is the squad reunion for the ending. It is just so sad if they are not keep in touch in the present timeline..
unimportant note: i think i need to watch taemo and hari to boost my mood.. lol..
@Growing Beautifully, Like you 5his is beautiful, powerful and Heartfelt. Thank you so very much…
Hello @Cleo! I’m doing well, thanks for checking. I hope you are doing fine yourself and that your elbow is not bothering you anymore.
But I needed a debrief of ep14 and the posts here have been helpful. Thanks for writing them beautifully unnie @GB! 💗💗💗
Thanks @GB for summarizing ep14. It wasn’t that surprising, we knew we had to brace our hearts for what is to come for YJ & HD. I like what you say that
“understanding that gaining and losing our dreams will not equate with success or failure or even determine future contentment.”
It is probably the message among all messages.
I think it is an encouragement for us whose youth may have been bright even when not all things have gone perfectly well. But we have overcome them to be contented with what we have now.
YJ & HD have worked hard to be where they are, it is not without sacrifices. You gain some and you lose some. Sigh…saturday come soon please.
You know the writer/director has successfully kept us on our toes with this drama, there was not one moment when you felt like it was slow or boring. It is ending and we still have so much to angst and talk about.
watched ep 14. It was sad and admirable to see such youngsters make huge decisions to save their family. Loved the interaction between Heedo and Yurim. Felt sad about what Yujin was going through and as @GB said, it was mirroring of coach and Mrs. Shin’s friendship. Yujin seemed to have moved somewhere else (?) did not really catch that, but he looked good but both seemed to be still having feeling and supporting each other internally.
As @GB and @moonstar517 says, the drama became confusing to me too. Is this a romance till 25-21 or is it a life drama and what they took at that age or what is the moral of the story.
@moonstar517 — waiting for Taemoo cooking dinner for Hari to let my mind of YR’s sad and bold movement to Russia to save her family take a back burner.
wonderful thoughts @GrowingBeautifully(GB) thank you…
We were expecting the heartbreak but somehow watching that 2009 TV broadcast with their sorrowful eyes and unspoken words still hurt. Who would have known the words “Congratulations on your wedding” can make my heart skip a beat? Their interaction seems to convey that they may have broken up but they still root for each other.
It’s true the show is trying to send many messages to its viewers that it can be confusing but I’m glad we get to see not only a love story but stories of mothers and daughters, friendships and mentors. One message that somehow resonates with me is that the love you had when you were young may be radiant and intense during that time of your life but that love also fades and you’re content with the knowledge that you once had it and with the memories that remain. It also reminds me of these lines from a poem:
Though nothing can bring back the hour
of splendour in the grass,
of glory in the flower.
We will grieve not, rather find
strength in what remains behind.
@Growing_Beautifully, thank you for that poetic reflection!
I had a deluge of feels from ep14, but one of my favourite moments, both uplifting and poignant, was the trick which the two girls played on the paparazzi waiting for YR. the idea to stuff a mannequin – what a classic prank from HD. it would be the last time they would be a team, of one heart and mind: the sequence showed them enjoying themselves and each other’s company – thoroughly in setting up the mannequin, escaping hand in hand and hiding out in the photobooth and beach other’s company to the fullest. all these before the slow descent to a sombre ending at the jjamppong restaurant and at HD’s house. :’-(
another favourite moment of mine, though emotionally hard to swallow, was the honest talk that YR had with her parents regarding her decision. YR herself said that her family “lived for her”, and many points of the show showed that her attitude and behaviour was attributable to the burden she carried as a star athlete. I recall a previous conversation with her parents where she felt resigned to exaggerate her gratitude and appreciation for the portable CD player and mobile phone gifted to her by her parents – the only person she could be truly honest was with JW. at the ep14 dinner talk, we see that she is done being sheltered- she questions her parents, she makes the decisions, she will protect her family inspite of the scandal it will cause her. :-‘( she removes the veneer singlehandedly.
on YR’s decision to compete for Russia – I guess such offers are part and parcel of a star athlete’s life. where I’m from, there are many foreign-born athletes who fly the national flag as PRs. their “origin” stories are never published, or spoken about, and there are always noises from the populace (especially if these athletes win medals) about the value of such wins, the money pumped into procuring these athletes, and apparent traitorous behaviour. at the end of the day. YR’s decision and her response to the jjamppong guy shines a little warm light on such athletes and their pains, and nudges the rest of us toward more empathy.
Thank you for your kind words @OAL, @Janey, @moonstar512, @angelwingssf, @Laura zZZz, @swiss_postscripts
Yes the heartbreak has begun. If it’s any consolation, it takes place a small crack at a time until the break is complete. Life just happens and the things of childhood will fall away, unfortunately taking some friends along with them.
@grace If the hallmark of a successful Show is that it keeps thoughtful viewers (like Bitches) engaged, compelled to watch and discussing positively each episode with interest, then 25, 21 is likely to be considered a successful work. Kudos to all the actors who’ve brought to convincing life and rounded out their characters so well, that we want to know how they are at various moments of their ‘lives’ and even their future prospects, as if they are real people.
@moonstar512, yes I hope to see the whole gang again, but the thing is, they will be played by different actors. What I’d like Show to do, is to show us the older actors playing the 5 young friends together, and then revert to our current young actors, like how in Goblin they showed the souls of the people who entered Reapers’ teahouse as their previous young selves. That would be lovely.
What a nice excerpt of poem @Laura zZZz. Very appropriate for the possible message of this Show.
@swiss_postscripts, your comment reminded me that I was noting the funny portrayal of HD as the out-of-the-box thinker and problem solver. At first we noted that more than once, her schemes could be quite hare-brained (her foray into gang fights, the night club, spending the night in the school and trying to re-draw the Full House missing page). YJ was the adult who had to help, protect and cover for her thoughtless plunging into action regardless of safety. But this was also her strength. Her never say die, make your own joy and fight for what’s right attitude inspired YR and YJ, won her the respect of Mum and coach, and got her gold medals.
In episode 14 her amazingly creative brain helped get JW’s car parked and saved YR from the paparazzi. I liked that she has also become mature, as seen from how she spoke to the gloating rival fencer who bad-mouthed her to her face. She behaved like a real adult then. YJ witnessed it and was proud.
Perhaps we’ve begun to see the more sedate, wise-thinking Hee Do already as she becomes the adult of 2021.
Dear @Fern,
I agree with you. If she hides her fire that means is she in depression?
I think your train of thought is correct. HeeDo might be devastated after winning YuRim in Madrid, but that won’t take away her Fire. I am curious if we will get an answer about it!
@Janey, I am okay myself and my elbow is fine! Thank you for asking! 🙂
I have taken a seminar that is interesting and needs my attention for the time being. So, if you don’t see me around here, that means I am busy!
@GB Unnie, As it seems we are in tune about our assessment on the show! Great points as usual!
I was rather disappointed in the wording of YJ’s exclusive report on YR’s choice to join the Russian team. I know that an editorial view can have a bias, so the choice of words were his.
I felt that his report was not unbiased for a couple of reasons. Most of his report was factual and level.
1. His last sentence: “It will be a huge disappointment for the Public that rooted for her.” That is telling the public how they should feel about it.
2. He said “…financial reasons seemed to have been the key to why she had made the decision.” Thinking about this – why couldn’t she have found a sponsor or sponsors in Korea so she wouldn’t have had to go? But she DID have a sponsor – YJ’s family – and we know what happened to them. In a sense she was let down by them, so to me YJ shouldn’t be broadcasting this interview. It is a conflict of interest in a way, even if he doesn’t mean it to be. It’s also possible that because her father was at fault in the accident, no reliable Korean sponsor would support her because of potential bad association.
I feel that YJ may have slanted the interview to support public indignation, where he could have just stated the facts that were known and left it at that. He has enough EQ for that. I felt the same way about HD’s mother’s interview when she included the phrase about the medal being stolen. There are ways to give a level interview with minimal inflamation of the public – let them make up their own minds or let another broadcasting channel make those sorts of statements.
YR did ask YJ what he was planning to say, so perhaps she gave him permission – it cut out on that part of their conversation before the reporting.
Hi @Cleo, I know that you’re busy, so thanks for dropping by to chat with us. I’m glad to know that you are well. Please remember to take time to rest and relax as well.
Hi @Fern, I agree with you. The choice of words are on the inflammatory side. The fact that reporters exploit the situation/people being reported on was mentioned, and the reports were exploitative instead of just objective. I don’t know if it was something that was done to please the boss, but it is disappointing that the YJ who reported to protect HD’s win is now reporting to pander to or to stir up or escalate negative public sentiment.
P.S. I’m not saying that YJ should have necessarily declined the exclusive report – he may not have told the company that his family was so involved in Yu-rim’s funding, so he may have been protecting his image and family. I just thought it was a bit rich that he would mention her reasons ‘seemed’ to be due to finance, given his family history with her. I’m probably being too critical, but I was a bit shocked at his coverage.
It must have been salt in the wound for HD to see first her mother and then YJ covering the news around YR. Mrs Shin broke the new then let YJ do the commentary. I don’t think the others know that Mrs Shin is her mother yet? Maybe YR may have guessed, from the days of their online conversations.
@Fern, I’m wondering of both Anchor Shin and YJ are over-compensating for the fact that they are close to the subject(s). They did not have to couch the reports in a negative way.
@GB Unnie,
Thank you for your concern! I am taking good care of myself, don’t worry. I do hope you are okay too!
I am trying to be online as much as I can. Sometimes, I can read you all, sometimes I can’t. The conversation is interesting and there are a lot you can say about the plot. Let us see how they will wrap this!
@Growing Beautifully, good point about over-compensating. I understand had they reported in a sympathetic way, it could have been detrimental to them, but a level report would have been good. There’s a saying, “It’s not what you say, it’s how you say it.”
@GB,@Fern, I think we have a case of parallelism here.YJ and HeeDo’s Mom and HeeDo and YuRim and Yurim and YJ on a variety of levels. YJ and HeeDo’s Mom must make compromises to survive in their industry-he, because it’s the best job he can get after his family fell on hard times and because of the responsibility he has because he is the eldest son.She because she is widowed and now a single mother supporting her family. They both have to leave out their primary relationships to survive in their fields.YJ tried to cover another sport,essentially trying to recuse himself but it fell on deaf ears.What we also see is that in the land of broadcast journalism, there really is no such thing as impartiality in what is a cutthroat world.These two actually face more constraints on their behavior than we can imagine.
YuRim and HeeDo are both talented fencers but fall on the opposite side of the economic divide, where YuRim must be cognizant of the economic sacrifices her parents are making from the horrible loan to the accident and their sacrifices so she can fence. HeeDo may have faced an absent mother and the medal controversy and has lost her beloved father but she is relatively unscathed by the crushing economic losses befalling the families like YJ’s and YuRim’s. HeeDo is saved from making the extreme choices faced by YuRim.
YuRim and YJ are the victims of the econiv crisis and both have to atone for the “sins of their fathers”. It seems to me that what both must handle are troubled beyond their years that require,to them,extreme solutions.
As to the others in the friendship circle we see what seems to be a continuum of problems they all face as adolescents under the cloud of the economic crisis.
All of this plus what others have commented on makes this drama so compelling. From the outset we saw it as a sports drama with what seemed like a budding romance. What we got is so much more. It was the in depth, personal stories that mirrored the very human cost of the crisis. It is what the writers set out to do without making it easy on us. That’s what makes this drama so good and why I think it will not be tied up in a pretty bow.
Hi @Cleopatra. I hope your elbow heals well. I know about these things having crushed my radius years ago. I now have plates and pins but have full range of motion. And for you,been know the humerus is part of the elbow. Named the funny bone it really is the opposite and can hurt.Sending healing thoughts.
Please enjoy your seminar and the rest of 2521.
@Fern, Agreed but I think their newsro wanted that editorial slant and they were doing what was expected of them for their own reasons . I think that they know they are making unconscionable compromises that make their lives all the more tragic. YJ strangely congratulated HeeDo on her marriage but you saw in how sad their eyes looked(great acting by the way). Just cut to the bone.
@Fern and @GB,
I actually had this thought regarding the job of reporter/journalist. I don’t know whether it is what it is, but why do I think that the writer made the job of reporter somehow could be like a villain job. I remember watching the drama about journalist and I was captivated by that. A real journalist is not a just a usual job but it is a calling, they seek for the true information, and they will publish them so that people know the truth even though their lives are at stakes. Not the otherwise. But nowadays, as we may know, many people use media to elevate their business or political agenda, or whatsoever.
We have to be critical when watching the news, because every news could be fabricated for the sake of their owner or some people who “sponsored” the media. By what this writer show us regarding the job of a reporter (be it for Heedo’s mother, or even Yijin), I saw that this job is kinda scary. This job seems have to exploit other’s misfortune for the company’s rating. But it is different from what I learn about the true journalist. This job should be more than rating or money. They have to dig deeper until they could show public the true information. And I agree with @Fern, “how you say” is very important because every word matters in shaping public opinion.
I know that the english translation in this Drama proven to be misleading in some previous scenes, therefore I actually want to know the proper translation of Yijin’s exclusive news regarding Yurim. Moreover, I thought that if there is a conflict of interest between the reporter and its subject, a reporter could declare that they could not cover the news. I just don’t understand what the writer want to show us regarding this job especially in the scene when:
1) Heedo’s mom still prefer to do her job knowing her husband was critically ill.
2) Yijin knows that he will hurt the people he loves but still cover the news anyway.
@OAL,
their eyes acting when videoconference in 2009 are so amazing. I saw not only sadness, but also acceptance (the hardest one maybe). Yes great acting for sure.
@GB,
Yes I also want the reunion scene shot between the young squads. It will be different for sure if it happened between the different actors. Therefore the goblin style for this reunion scene would be amazing!! It would also feel kinda poignant..
While we grieve for the OTP (or not) from ep14, here’s the fun atmosphere of their BTS (ep13-14 with the kiss – both the bao kiss and the true kiss)! I don’t even understand anything but I just kept on smiling while watching this. May it tide us over to this final weekend!
Dear kdrama gods, pls give us a good ending and closure.
https://youtu.be/BU9bEeTvg44
@Janey, thanks for that. The actors are having a lot of fun in that selection of scenes.
@Fern – my favorite was the car 🚙! They actually lifted it up to park. I saw this same scene as a mentos commercial way back. Very memorable. Heedo doing on the spot problem solving with creative solution.
@Janey, same here, the parallel parking part had me rolling with laughter as if I was seeing myself from afar. That’s totally me. And I did that before. In the end I gave up and parked further away. I didn’t have to pass the parallel parking of my driving test so….never quite learnt it…not sure why it wasn’t required. But after a decade, I could quite made do without being able to parallel park.
Heedo really has quick thinking and interesting solutions to sticky problems. (i.e. getting Yurim out of the gym when she was hounded by reporters) I wonder if she will be able to solve YJ’s problem of keeping a distance from her because of his job.
There are theories all around for a happy ending and I think the story will just surprise us. So I will patiently wait for this weekend. So many dramas ending next weekend!
@AOL, @Fern, @GB, @moonstar512,
On YJ’s reporting, I thought that he may have been forced a script that he didn’t want to say but had to. But there were many times when he did not nod to authority, like in going against the producer’s idea in producing the documentary, or even how he described the final team match in a poetic way (and got scolded by his boss). If keeping to his character, I believe it was his own choice of words. He may have been gradually conformed into the culture of his work and knows how to work the words to gain viewership. When he does that, he gets recognition.
It is really a conflicting thing, because he is doing it to really climb up that career ladder. I wouldn’t say he is ambitious but his ambition may be driven by the need for survival, to bring his family back together. Plus, with his qualifications, it will be really hard for him to land in another good job anymore. (They made a point to tell us how difficult it was for him to get a job after so many interviews). I don’t think he is going to jeopardize it, plus he has gained recognition where he is. He really did it knowing the repercussions which is why he is in so much pain, because he wouldn’t choose otherwise, I think.
I guess on the plus side if it is true that HD married someone else (this is the most rational explanation for the story arc), then NJH gets to experience (as he has done this whole drama thus far) the adulation that “Good Boy” received in Start Up. 😂. Of being the man who didn’t get the FL character. Shoe is on the other foot. 👍
I still haven’t brought myself to watch episode 14 although I’ve basically figured out what happened.
I feel it will be happy ending just because this writer seems to take pleasure in taking her audience on a rollercoaster. She’s probably filled with glee knowing there’s so much confusion at her trickery and can’t wait to say “gotcha”. It’s my own way of rebellion to refuse to imagine end game.
I feel that it would be a happy ending too. The congratulations is a misdirection. If you watch BYJ’s reaction carefully after he congratulates her, you can see a split second where he raises his eyebrow and smiles slightly. Like it it is an inside joke between them and that they are secretly married. Also at the start of the interview, you can hear a child’s voice saying appa in the echoey background. Could it be KMC recognising her dad on the screen?
Okay… tell me @MY how do you explain MC not recognizing Baek YiJin in the photo as her dad then?
@packmule3 I agree. That’s a huge plot hole if MC doesn’t recognize her own dad in the pic. Unless she’s like their love child or something. 🙄 But we already figured that the dates and MC’s age don’t match up. Perhaps the underlying message in the drama is as @GB suggested, to let the past stay in the past. Relishing the beautiful times that it was but opting to live in the present reality. And perhaps that’s why the 25-21 sign in the workshop. It’s a tribute to the past and it stays as a plaque. Like a framed graduation certificate. Because to wish for what was or “could have been” would detract from the beauty that it was? As if to say that somehow it wasn’t quite enough and there was “unfinished business” to be dealt with? The plaque acknowledges the beautiful time that was 25-21 and to walk away with no regrets. I have just been reading comments. I stopped watching at Ep8 because I was tired of the “trolling” and the fantastical theories swirling around the internet about how YJ and HD would have their “happy ending” as a couple.
I think they will use another older male actor in 2021 to explain why she couldn’t recognise him as a youngster.
Earlier in the episode, when she googles and finds the clip, you see she’s initially confused and then her eyes light up. Did it click and she recognises him finally?
Why else would the writer go through all the trouble to cast another older actress for NHD. Taeri is such a wonderful actress, she could have definitely pulled off a 40+ year old version of NHD.
I’m not sure how the writer will explain her surname being Kim though. Maybe he uses a professional name to hide their relationship?
@MY
My take on why dramas deliberately use a different actor for the later timeline is to keep viewers guessing about the spouse/partner that the main character will end up with. They used it in the Reply series for ‘guess who the husband will be’. Even when we see the husband, we see no resemblance to the youthful character, we do hear him called by name, and we are kept on tenterhooks, guessing which chap that husband is.
In this show, the principle is the same but instead of multiple guys to choose from there’s only 1: is it YJ or is it not YJ. We are deliberately given NO family photos anywhere to even give a hint. The husband is totally hidden except that we know he exists/existed.
The production team is using a different actress in HD deliberately, because if we see such a different HD, then we expect a very different YJ. It’s to keep us guessing and coming back.
It will be a complete troll if YJ turns up as the husband when all the clues have pointed to the fact that the husband is not YJ. YJ is not MJ’s dad. No matter how different he looks 20 year later, unless he had drastic plastic surgery, he would still look recognisable as his 24 year old self. HD is definitely not married to YJ in 2009.
To bring about this troll would require everything we’ve seen thus far to have been only in the imagination of Min Chae or something like that. I don’t think the production team will want to deal with the ire of the viewers if this comes about. Although, of course, there are those who will rejoice since they want it to be YJ no matter what.
@nrllee
I like your take on 2521 just being on the plaque, a fond memento retained without regrets to mar the present.
@PM3 – that’s also what’s stopping me from joining the HEA secret married wagon.
I wonder how they will pull it off if that’s the case.
@MY – It’s noticeable though how personal their greetings are to each other in that 2009 interview. Actually, Heedo started it to the point that YJ had to explain their history when he started as a journalist. The connection and their support for each other are still there. And that’s what I like about this show and this pair. Whatever the ending is will not diminish that.
I think the whiplash I received during the beach episode-she said she’d remember forever and then cut to present day and she says she doesn’t remember-completely disenchanted me on the writer. I can’t figure out her message. If she keeps the plaque to relish the past and live in the present, why have HD act that way, why not smile at MC and say “oh yes I’d forgotten that was so much fun!” ???? As of 2009 everything still seemed pretty fresh in her memory during the telecast.
.**** potential My Mister spoiler!!!*** Although I secretly hoped for romance and in my fan fiction daydreams I imagine the main leads ending up in a relationship eventually, I was completely satisfied with how it ended and I don’t even mind thinking of him still being with his wife and keeping his family together and JiAn living alone and happy with her independence.
*******
My imagination can’t come up with any scenario that can take place in the next two episodes that will make me feel satisfied. Sorry for being a negative Nancy.
@GB yes I agree. The story telling would dive into the unbelievable territory if MC somehow didn’t recognize her father from young photos. She obviously recognized her mother? Nobody changes that much that you can’t recognize them straight away. And YJ was in his early 20s in the photos, his facial features were set. I recognize my mom and dad in their old b&w photos from their University days. It’s not that hard.
@birdie007, I feel the same, no matter what ending I imagine, they all make me sad.
With how the story has been shown so far, the most logical ending would be that YJ and HD broke up in their twenties and we will just console ourselves with memories of their love.
If, however, the story somehow reverses and YJ is revealed to be Minchae’s father and/or HD’s husband, it would be very disappointing since that would be possible only with many plot holes. It ruins an otherwise memorable story. This arc also toys with the viewers by deliberately misleading them since the start.
If YJ and HD broke up in their twenties and HD married another man but ended up getting divorced, there’s a possibility of them reconnecting. That might be a great plot twist but then what a waste of 20 years being apart.
P.S. I re-watched the ending of “My Mister” a lot of times to try to understand if it gives clues that the Ahjussi and Ji Ahn will eventually end up together but I did not get to the conclusion that they did. Still, I’m fine with that ending because I see them both happy, even if they’re not together.
@birdie007 I completely understand where you’re coming from. Problem with the writing here is that there was so much time spent building up the OTP? Everything was fine and dandy in the past and the present seems so dour and strange when it comes to HD’s cryptic responses in the present? It was a major trolling session? As I see it, the writer has written herself into a hole. She presented their past in such glowing terms and dragged it on for so long that no matter what resolution she gives us it’s going to fall short. She hasn’t given the audience enough time to mourn the inevitable. If she gives us a happy ending somehow, some would be massively angry with all the trolling, others would be saying she was disingenuous with all the red herrings (MC not recognizing her dad from old photos, HD’s mom pointing out YJ in old photo and then saying that she saw him recently – that alone is a giveaway? If my hubby was “seen” by my mother I would be full of questions? Where? With whom? In what capacity? 😂. I wouldn’t just shrug my shoulders as if it were a non event?). And if she writes that HD married someone else, is there enough time for us to even believe that she would? The mysterious Mr Kim who has yet to appear? Waltz right in and take the place of the person she’s so consistently shoved in our faces the whole 14eps? Massive troll.
@nrllee, massive troll indeed. But come episode 15, I’m one of those who’ll be watching to see what happens next. Gahh! Does this mean this trolling approach of the writer helps somehow in bringing in viewers? The guessing, the endless theories… But I’ll remember to avoid shows by this writer from now on. LOL.
out of topic: I now understand what you mean when in episode 10 of “The Light in Your Eyes” everything sort of clicked. I’m in Episode 11 now.
@LaurazZZz. It was brilliant wasn’t it? I remember laughing and crying at almost every episode but it was cathartic? It wasn’t a drama that left you bereft or in hopeless despair? I loved that about it. It was quite the opposite. It left me full of hope with new understanding and wanting to live life fully? I remember being so angry and confused about the “dad” of the show, how he was so detached and emotionless. But it all came together at the end of Ep10. Prepare yourself for more tears. But they are good tears. 🙂.
There you go, @MY.
You know yourself that it doesn’t make sense. The different surname. Her not recognizing her own dad in the photo. Heedo not remembering the beach week. 🤪
Casting two different actors/actresses for the same role underscores the fact that the young Heedo and the young Yijin have grown up. As adults, they’ve become different, LITERALLY, from what they were in high school.
It has nothing to do with Minchae not recognizing her dad because a different actor was used. 😂😂🤪
Same here. I’m fed up with kdrama writers who think they’re all that.
Yes. That’s how I understood the wooden plaque too. Like a frozen rose in a glass case. Frozen in time. Something to remember. It’s the time they grew up and let go of childish things.
I’ve stopped earlier. Episode 4. 😂😂 As I said in my post about Mental Gymnastics, the theories of a YJ and HD happy ending are too preposterous, too convoluted to entertain. None of them can explain the existence of KIM MinChae, and her inability to recognize her own dad. 🤦♀️🤦♀️
A couple of times I check the ending of the episode. But I couldn’t be bothered to spend an hour with it when there are other dramas to watch.
The writer is a Reply series copycat. The makjang version.
I’m withyou@packmule3,I can’t see YJ being Minchae’s father. I think HD actually remembers the years that she fenced and the pivotal year she became 21. I don’t think she chooses to share the details of that year with her daughter. To me, given what we’ve seen so far, adult HD is very private and not at all the exuberant person of her youth. My guess is that in the next episodes we’ll understand why she changed and how YJ factored into that change. As an adult HD seems to get along with her mother;someone who has considerably softened. Do we see trauma coming when she was 21. We do know she fenced well beyond that year. But in her interview with YJ we also see that she is subdued. Both his and her eyes show that some form of hurt remains. And HD looks different and not because she lost the bangs. It almost seems to be that a cloud has to emailed over her.
The writer, I think, has given us the golden glow of nostalgia captured by the fleeting image of a 🌈. We know that those times were never as good as we hoped. The joys and discoveries of youth were captured but we also see all the underlying problems that our young people faced. As we probably know when we receive those emails about hi ow great the good old days were, as adults we know that it really wasn’t so. When I get them,usually from women friends, if I decide to troll them, I remind th we mof all the constraints women and girls faced from being ashamed of gigantic kotex boxes to girdles not to mention women employment want ads and being second class citizens who couldn’t get loans without a father’s or husband’s permission.
If this writer is consistent, we’ll meet Minchae’s Dad (obliquely) through references and he won’t be YJ. We’ll probably find out if HD is still married or if she’s divorced. If the latter is the case maybe it will be an opening for a romantic reunion with YJ OR NOT. I think that what we will get is an idea of what happened to the friends. But there will be ambivalence. Maybe we’ll see a YJ HD reunion as we saw in the movie, The Way We We’re, and we’ll cry for what could have been. Life will go on. We won’t get a rekindled romance. But HD’s daughter will have a new found appreciation for her mother and that will be our happy ending. Get that tissue box ready…
I agree, @OAL.
It was obvious to me that Heedo preferred NOT to discuss with her daughter about her past memories. It isn’t because of a medical amnesia, but more of a selective memory. Do we really share our most romantic moments with our kids? Nope. That would be “TMI” or Too Much Information. Some personal things are meant to be private and confidential.
🙂 I doubt I’ll need a tissue box. I wasn’t really emotionally invested in the show. I was more into it because I wanted to see how this writer thinks. Once I figured out that she’s “soap opera,” I lost interest. She hasn’t written anything or done anything that I didn’t know when I was in my 30s.
Yes! I agree with all of that @nrlee @laurazz
@OAL such a good point and it seems the most logical conclusion.
My main take away: drop once you feel annoyed and wait for it to finish airing to decide if it’s worth a binge.
My confusion is where YJ gets in trouble for knowing and being involved with HD and not a word about YR and her involvement with YJ. I kept wanting to yell out, “Hey, YJ was actually more tangled up with YR! His family supported her financially and YR had a major crush on YJ.
I absolutely loved the part of the drama where YJ was jealous and spun the umbrella! I wish it was with this energy and show of affection that the drama would keep YJ and HD together at a happy ending! But, I am a sucker for happy endings.
I happened to chance upon on insta story feed of someone who talked about the production company Hwa and Dam pictures on their goal of the show. I quote “We wanted to reflect on the meaning of first love that remains in the faint memories of Na Heedo and Back Yijin from the moment they met and then parted.”
If so, it is what we have expected all along.
3 more days!
@Grace,
And that’s precisely why I say this drama is ultimately makjang.
If the message is “to reflect on the meaning of first love,” then this reflection has gone on for far too long. This is no longer “reflecting.” This is “wallowing.” Wallowing in and glorifying the first love.
“Reflecting on the meaning of first love” means devoting about 6 to 8 episodes on the first love. A reflection would have entailed the writer showing RESOLUTION and ACTION after the first love has ended. If reflection was the goal then for the second half of the drama, she should’ve shown the viewers how Heedo and YiJin have MOVED ON after their first love. Instead, we get snippets of conversations between Minchae and Heedo, Minchae and grandma, Mom and Heedo.
But each episode is 90% about first love and other maudlin stuff, and 10% percent about reflection of first love. It doesn’t help at all too that an anemic actress was hired to perform Heedo as an adult.
I just have to laugh at the “wallowing”. Yes it has gone on so long it is creating lots of angst. It’s a Kdrama thing isn’t it, that glorification of FIRST love. It wasn’t Yijin’s first love though….considering he had 2 girlfriends before HeeDo.
Pwahahaha. It’s not his “first love”? What??! That’s too funny.
See? If this kdrama were my “daughter,” I’d tell her to get a grip and get over it already. I can understand reminiscing about a first love, and talking about it to get it off her chest. But episode after episode, this kdrama circles around the first love theme. I’d get impatient if my fictional daughter were still crying over her first love after 7 weeks. (lol. Maybe that’s why God gave me sons?? No drama.)
So yes…this is wallowing, not reflecting.
And then, as I said, the kdrama is all over the place. It introduces topics and themes but it doesn’t carry through with them. Bullying? Sponsorship? Professional women? Careers in television? IMF crisis? Missing fathers?
Random Thoughts after finally watching Episode 14 last night:
–Someone on another blog has predicted that 2521 will have a “La La Land-type ending”–meaning that the two main characters will have been there to support one another through their earlier struggles and then will part on good terms, with fond memories of their time together. I think this is this probably the most likely ending, so I’m already prepared for (my own!) heartbreak.
–I really feel for BYJ, since I was a reporter myself, decades ago. I was embedded in an area office and came to know the people in the towns I covered as neighbors and friends. But someone in the local government, with whom I was on friendly terms, royally screwed up and I had to write about it. “I don’t know how you can live with yourself,” the person told me over the phone after my story printed. At that point I wondered this myself and ultimately decided I couldn’t keep doing it. But I had the option of going off to graduate school and pursuing a different career. BYJ doesn’t. He is lucky he was hired without a college degree. Plus I imagine, even without the financial crisis, that it might be harder to switch career paths in Korea, unlike the USA, where people often re-invent themselves and are given second and third chances. It shows that he is a good person because he struggles with his decision, and he feels guilty afterwards. He isn’t yet hard-shelled and cynical (and maybe he never becomes this way…).
In other discussions, some people have said that BYJ is a terrible person, because he is taking advantage of NHD, and that he shouldn’t have reported about KYR’s defection. But he is the sports reporter who reports on fencing. Not doing so might have put his career in jeopardy. Plus if he hadn’t done it, someone else would have anyway. He knew why KYR was going to Russia but didn’t report it, because he didn’t want to embarrass her family.
Both characters had to make tough choices, but she has the support of her family and friends; BYJ doesn’t. So I feel sorry for him for having to do it.
–I truly wish Kim Tae-Ri could play her adult self. I’m thinking it could be possible still. We’ve seen Kim Min-Chae’s adult mom through her eyes—and she sees her mom as old and dull. After realizing that her mom was cool when she was young, they could do some kind of fade-in, showing young Hee Do walking out of the room as KMC reads about her, and then KTR walking into the room, dressed as her mom.
I will finish the last two episodes. I really want to know what happened to the rest of the gang. It will be very disappointing if the writer does not tell us. As for HD and YJ, I agree with @pm3. Getting over a first love instead of wallowing in it would have been a better story.
Lol. @Beth. Whoever is on that blog is ten episodes too late. We called it here as of Episode 4 that this isn’t the happy ending people expected to be, and that they’ll go separate ways.
This ain’t “La-La Land” either. “La-La Land” at least had the courtesy not to waste 14 hours on a “reflections of a first love” genre of a story when 2 hours sufficed.
@packmule3, it isn’t about YJ’s first love because it was established from the famous school broadcast tape that he was confessing to a girl. It was HeeDo’s first love. In the present we don’-t see HeeDo spending any real time overly reminiscing over it, even when her mother mentions that she’s seen YJ recently. It wasn’t like those advice column articles about people “hooking up” with their high school romances after any break up with spouses, being widowed or divorce, t h at does not pan out. I happen to think that because it’s a K Drama, most have a tendency to default to the romance storyline. To m see, in retrospect, I think the greater story was about the friendships and competition among the fencing team and their schoolmates. Yup, our leads are big stars, but their interactions with the significant people in their live s, coworkers, teammates, parents, teacher,coaches, are so much more important. That’s why the romance may have makjang elements but the main story is so much more. If we were brutally honest, let’s say HD and YJ got married. If it was a true makjang, we’d be dealing with infidelity and revenge, with a side of it affect on the kids(See Love ft, Marriage and Divorce). In this drama Minjae is clueless about her mom’s past. For all we know, mom is sort of a stage mother to the kid and dad must be away on business a lot and is clueless about his daughter’s everyday life(e.g., the gift of the ballet dress). And if we look at the entire drama, we are actually seeing it from 13 year old Minjae’s point of view.
I don’t think we have c seen mom and daughter discuss mom’s adolescence because they are somewhat estranged. We do get daughter’s interpretation juxtaposed on a third person’s view of the events. We see several lives depicted with the impact of the IMF crisis as a sort of catalyst. Viewed this way, if you parse out the romance, it becomes a different drama.
@Snow Flower, we see that HeeDo has married and that YJ is in a different place from the TV interview. We see that they seem to view each other with some nostalgia but for present day HD we don’t see any acknowledgement that it ever happened. Her daughter just found out about it and HeDo’s mom mentions him in passing.
I see @packmule3’s points but I differ with her in my interpretation. I 5hink much is open ended as life is. We also see that in real life. The only way it all ties up is in inevitable death. I like you also hope we’ll know what happened to 5he friends. YuRim’s story especially interests me. Does she get back to Korea (and is no longer Julia). We’re her family debts settled. Didcshe end up with her boyfriend. If we don’t see that I would be disappointed. However, was I engaged with the story. I certainly was. In American TV, was I engaged with the Sopranos or Lost-you betcha. Was I happy with their endings-no way. So I’m preparing myself for an ending marked by ambiguity.
@packmule3, Thanks for putting BYJ’s work in context and sharing your experience as a reporter. You perfectly expressed the compromises that ethical reporters must make in order to keep their jobs. Hacks will do whatever they need to do to keep working and Moreno, rise in their organizations. We’ve all seen the cutthroats. 8’m happy that BYJ is a good guy. I hope that they show that he’s had a good life.
I also hope we get TaeRi. She is a wonderful actress who has that it factor. She is luminous. I think of her roles in the Handmaiden (a fascinating and disturbing movie) and Mr. Sunshine. Given those roles, HeeDo is such an awkward innocent and a real departure from her prior roles. She nails all of them. She elevates her costars and has helped NJH improve his game.
@OAL,
Stop!
There’s no need to pile on without looking at the context of the original post. 🙂
I was reacting to @Grace’s comment. She wrote this,
I happened to chance upon on insta story feed of someone who talked about the production company Hwa and Dam pictures on their goal of the show. I quote “We wanted to reflect on the meaning of first love that remains in the faint memories of Na Heedo and Back Yijin from the moment they met and then parted.”
I answered thus,
@Grace,
And that’s precisely why I say this drama is ultimately makjang.
If the message is “to reflect on the meaning of first love,” then this reflection has gone on for far too long. This is no longer “reflecting.” This is “wallowing.” Wallowing in and glorifying the first love.
“Reflecting on the meaning of first love” means devoting about 6 to 8 episodes on the first love. A reflection would have entailed the writer showing RESOLUTION and ACTION after the first love has ended. If reflection was the goal then for the second half of the drama, she should’ve shown the viewers how Heedo and YiJin have MOVED ON after their first love. Instead, we get snippets of conversations between Minchae and Heedo, Minchae and grandma, Mom and Heedo.
But each episode is 90% about first love and other maudlin stuff, and 10% percent about reflection of first love. It doesn’t help at all too that an anemic actress was hired to perform Heedo as an adult.
Pay attention, @OAL, that I zoomed in on the quotation. It was the quote that mentioned the FIRST LOVE that remains in the memories of Heedo and YiJin.
@Grace then answered this,
I just have to laugh at the “wallowing”. Yes it has gone on so long it is creating lots of angst. It’s a Kdrama thing isn’t it, that glorification of FIRST love. It wasn’t Yijin’s first love though….considering he had 2 girlfriends before HeeDo.
I wrote back,
Pwahahaha. It’s not his “first love”? What??! That’s too funny.
See? If this kdrama were my “daughter,” I’d tell her to get a grip and get over it already. I can understand reminiscing about a first love, and talking about it to get it off her chest. But episode after episode, this kdrama circles around the first love theme. I’d get impatient if my fictional daughter were still crying over her first love after 7 weeks. (lol. Maybe that’s why God gave me sons?? No drama.)
So yes…this is wallowing, not reflecting.
And then, as I said, the kdrama is all over the place. It introduces topics and themes but it doesn’t carry through with them. Bullying? Sponsorship? Professional women? Careers in television? IMF crisis? Missing fathers?
Do you see that @OAL?
Whether or not it was first love for YiJin, that isn’t the bone of contention.
The argument is that this drama, according to the quote, purported to be a REFLECTION on the experience of FIRST LOVE.
I said it’s not a reflection when all it did was to “wallow” in it.
That’s the whole reason many viewers are still coming up with ludicrous theories trying to figure out how the two lead characters will end up together. You cannot “PARSE” out the first love (or pseudo-first love) of the main characters when that’s the WHOLE PREMISE of the drama.
I tried.
I was the one of this blog who, from the very beginning, (read my first impressions) said I didn’t care if they ended up together or not. I was the one too who tried to explain the
fencing and it’s metaphors,
bullying in sports,
professional women in male dominated fields, and
this writer’s and director’s trolling, and
mental gymnastics.
But by Episode 4, I knew that it’d be a losing battle to divorce first/pseudo-first love from the plot because THAT’s the hook of the battle.
Look, @OAL, if the writer really wanted viewers to focus on other issues and relationships, then she would have stopped teasing the viewers about Adult Heedo’s marital state. Just show Minchae’s Dad by Episode 8 and end the guessing game.
But she didn’t.
She knows the guessing game is driving the views. Her other subplots (e.g., Yurim’s financial worries, Heedo’s rise to fame, Heedo’s mommy woes, YiJin’s career track, SeungWan’s school choice) are all weak side stories. They could have been edited out and it won’t affect
a. The main story
b. The viewer ratings
Why?
Because they don’t have substance. They’re not essential to the drama. The selling point of this drama is first love of Heedo and the quasi-first love of YiJin.
That’s why you suggested that, at this late stage, perhaps Heedo is a stage mom and Minchae’s dad is away on business. You’re not given the particulars of their family relationship because this will give away the Mystery Husband and spell the end of FIRST LOVE narrative.
So no. From beginning till end, the single controlling issue of this drama is first love. It’s been the SINGLE driving force of this drama.
Also, I don’t mind if you want to define makjang as plots with infidelity and revenge, @OAL.
My standards of makjang are different from yours. Makjang (or soap opera) to me is excessive focus on “feels” of the characters, not brains. It’s not the subject matter that makes a kdrama appear makjang to me, but it’s the never-ending spectacle of melodrama, sadness, grief, melancholy and lamentation.
This drama fits my criteria to a T.
Seriously, I’m repulsed by it in the same way I’m repulsed by “The Young and the Restless” and “Days of Our Lives,” and “The Bold and the Beautiful.”
@packmule3, Got it. I understand what you are saying. My question to you, having followed this blog and enjoying the commentary very much, is do we need more ground rules for discussion? I did not think I was piling on. I just thought I was showing plot points and making a case for what I saw as omitted.
I hope that I’m not too old to learn how to determine the points in question. I’ve gotten into trouble before for not following the train of thought and for what are extraneous ideas. I own up to my errant ways. I appreciate your help.
I grew up on soaps. I’m old enough to remember As The World Turns, The Guiding Light, Ryan’s Hope and my favorite, the departure from the genre, Dark Shadows. My senior high school English teacher actually brought the leading actor from Another World to our class to read Dickens and Shakespeare to us. Those soaps gave a lot of actors work. Given the titles of those shows(American mmakjangs) I understand your meaning.
Thank you also for being gentle with me.
@GB wrote: “…we wonder why we only see Hee Do and get the story of her past through Min Chae’s reading of the diaries. At times I even wonder if we are seeing a garbled version of the past filtered through the understanding of Min Chae, or whether what we see happening in 1998-2000 did happen.”
Yes, @GB, we have to be careful of getting the story from a potentially unreliable source. But Writernim makes it confusing by switching between the view of the past reported in Hee Do’s diaries and interpreted by Min Chae, and an omniscient point of view in which we’re privy to others’ private thoughts and experiences that Hee Do didn’t witness. In episode 14 we get a lot of the story from YuRim’s point of view. Some of it she may have shared verbally with Hee Do, and some by computer chat. Of that, we don’t know how much Hee Do recorded in her diary.
@grace, you ask, “What made HeeDo marry? Who and Why or how did she fall in love with someone else if there was still the lingering emotions for YJ. This is the part I can’t quite get.” I wonder if we heard foreshadowing from YuRim when she explained to Ji Woong that the only way a national athlete could live outside the training facility is if they are married. The moment I heard that, I wondered if a door was being opened for the contract marriage trope.
I think it is safe to assume Shin Jae Kyung, Hee Do, and Min Chae live relatively close to one another since grandma and mom go to the same medical facility for their simultaneous colonoscopies. And let me just say my opinion here that I found it unbelievable, Writernim, that a child would be allowed by the medical facility to be the guardian for both her grandmother and mother when they’re both under general anesthesia, even if it was light. A colonoscopy may be a routine procedure, but there are dangers: polyps could be discovered and complications arise during their removal; cancer could be discovered; drugs used during anesthesia can cause a bad reaction, etc. Is a minor legally able to make decisions as a guardian in emergency situations like these?
Episode 14 showed us that YuRim’s family was backed into a corner financially, and YuRim did what she could to save her family. She was open with HeeDo that her preference was to stay in South Korea and compete on the South Korean national team. YuRim maximized her earning power using the skills she had, setting aside her feelings to focus on the practical. But I harbor a little suspicion that YuRim also feared a career of playing second fiddle to HeeDo if they both competed for South Korea. YuRim has become a good friend to HeeDo, but is realistic about HeeDo’s winning attitude prevailing over her technical mastery.
I will admit I was impressed with what Writernim did at the end of episode 14. The storytelling via high-schooler HeeDo’s diaries has come to an end. It seemed organic to me to have Min Chae discover the video clip that revealed the state of Na Hee Do and Back Yi Jin’s relationship in 2009. The big time jump in their story makes sense when viewed through the source material available to Min Chae.
Previews at the end of episode 14 seem to promise that we’ll see more of Hee Do and Yi Jin’s developing romance in 2000. I wonder if Writernim will keep Min Chae as our eyes and ears, revealing a new source of material for her to discover their story, or if Writernim will switch to the god view and abandon Min Chae’s point of view for a time.
Reporter Back Yi Jin belatedly congratulating Na Hee Do on her marriage shows that he’s aware of what is happening in her life, but they have not had direct contact (at least since her wedding). As a reporter Yi Jin may have felt it necessary to publicly disclose that he and Hee Do had history, although he was careful to present it in purely professional terms relating to reporter and athlete. I wonder why, when he released his exclusive report about YuRim choosing to fence on the Russian team, he did not publicly disclose his history with her (that his family’s company had sponsored her, and that he’d been acquainted with her prior to his becoming a sports reporter). This almost appears to be deception by omission.
I wonder why, if a public backlash was expected after YuRim’s decision, she wasn’t given an interview opportunity to explain her reason for fencing on the Russian team. Perhaps the news media didn’t want to highlight that sports is business, preferring to present athletic success as an expression of patriotism.
@moonstar512, you wondered how Shin Jae Kyung could chose to keep working while her husband was critically ill, when he was dying, and during his memorial at the funeral hall. Writernim made sure we saw that she was threatened with the loss of her job if she gave the station’s management any reason to question her abilities. Writernim didn’t bring up the issue of medical expenses, but from watching other Kdramas, I’ve seen that in South Korea hospitalization and medical treatment can push people into financial hardship and ruin. (That’s very much the case in my country, as well.) YiJin was also made aware that his position as a reporter was hanging by a thread because he was not a college graduate. Others with better qualifications (on paper) were lined up to take his place any time he faltered, and some of his superiors were eager to see him gone because they disagreed with the culture-defying opportunity through which he’d gotten the job.
@BethB, I love your idea of the adult HeeDo being lackluster because we’re seeing her through the eyes of Min Chae.
We meet Na Hee Do when she’s 18. She’s portrayed by actress Kim Tae Ri, who was age 31 when she played this role. That’s a 13 year difference. Adult Na Hee Do is around age 42 in present day, which is only 11 years more than Kim Tae Ri’s age. The problems with having a youthful face… Although I will say KTR is excellent at conveying youth through believable mannerisms, not just her looks.
@OAL, it was BethB who shared her experiences as a reporter, not @Packmule3. But you’re right on target with your assessment that Kim Tae Ri nails her roles and elevates her costars.
Overall I’m happy with this drama. The acting has been excellent, even if the writing has flaws. Would I watch it in full again? Probably not. Would I watch any other dramas by Kwon Do Eun? Maybe, depending on the premise and actors involved. Writernim is still at the beginning of her Kdrama career, so has room to grow.
🍪🍪🍪🍪🍪 @welmaris!
My only quibble: “depending on the premise”I feel like the synopsis was quite misleading but the premise was not. The very title indicates it won’t be a happy ending since there wasn’t one in the song. I just find it annoying that getting to the premise of the drama didn’t happen until 7/8ths of the way in.
I hated the finale of How I Met Your Mother only because they spent an entire season convincing us Barney and Robin were meant to be and invest in their marriage only to have them divorce in the last episode. Why waste a whole season on it?
SO sorry about my error @BethB
@birdie007,The synopses on a lot I f these dramas are misleading. I think we’re not lost in translation and I think these things are deliberate. Perhaps they want to put eyes on the dramas. I thinkmI now understand one reason for viewer drop out-un met expectations.
I have a some streaming services and find c strange synopses on some. Some descriptions are pretty strange but there are patterns to them like the I ver u see Actress name stuns in designer name on red carpet. So funny. Lots of cliches out there.
Thank you all for teaching this old dog new tricks.
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