The thread is open!
From @GB:
14:00 UTC is:
07:00 am PST
10:00 am EST and Venezuela
03:00 pm London
04:00 pm France
10:00 pm Singapore
05:00 pm Greece
12:00 midnight SydneySuggested Rewatch Schedule
Liar Game Season 1
Ep 1 & 2 – 8 Oct 2022
Ep 3 & 4 – 15 Oct 2022
Ep 5 & 6 – 22 Oct 2022
Ep 7 & 8 – 29 Oct 2022Break – 5 Nov 2022
Break – 12 Nov 2022Ep 9 & 10 – 19 Nov 2022
Please note that Eps 11 & 12 are 45+ minutes long and Ep 13 is around 55 minutes long.
Ep 11 – 26 Nov 2022
Ep 12 – 3 Dec 2022
Ep 13 – 10 Dec 2022If we want to finish the series q week earlier, we might still squeeze our watch of Ep 11 and 12 back-to-back on the same day, but that will take us 1.5 or more hours to complete with our chat time included.
All are welcome to join us!!!
Cheers!
Enjoy the show, @GB, @WEnchanteur and company.
Thank you @pkml3!!
We’ve decided to end one week earlier, so if you don’t mind, please amend the last bit of the schedule to:
Ep 11 & 12 – 26 Nov 2022
Ep 13 – 3 Dec 2022
🙂
🍪🍨🥛 🍪🍨🥛 🍪🍨🥛
Hello!
See you later. 😉
See you later @WEnchanteur!
@WE, @FGB, @salteddust
I may suddenly need to do ‘taxi-service’ to fetch my daughter who does a late work shift. She just started work, hence this time didn’t enter my scheduling. What I propose to do is post below, my 2 cents worth of thoughts, regarding Episode 3.
You can respond to me earlier or during the rewatch. I’ll come back to read you and reply.
I should be back around 15:20 UTC and be with you as you head into the middle of Episode 4. So I should still see you later!!
With this new ‘taxi-service’ I may be needed to take on, I’m wondering if you’re okay with making the rewatch earlier ie, we start at 12:30 UTC instead of 14:00 UTC?
12:30 UTC is:
8:30am in Caracas
2:30pm in Paris
8:30am in Singapore
If some other time like 13:00 UTC works better for you, that will be ok with me too. Just let me know if you have any other preferred time. Otherwise we can keep to 14:00 UTC then I’ll do what I plan to do today.
😃 📝 💻 ⏰ 📬 🚗 🌃 🏡 😁
Dear @GB, how are you? congratulations on your daughter’s first job!!! 😀
I am still in Episode 1 and the setup is horrifying. I will try to get pass of the very beginning.
@WEnchanteur, how are you?, I am kind of sorry for not watching “W” along with you but life got in the way and I lost my footing on that one. I am still stuck on the first episode due to the horrifying setup.
Hi @FGB, thanks for your congratulations. Yes, she got a job finally, at least to tide her over until she can find the work she really wants to do. Or she may choose to work on her own interests part-time and online, with this current job supporting her.
Don’t worry about the set up. It’s all deliberately over the top, over acted and unfair to begin with. It’s probably an anime sort of set up and look. The colours and the artificial feel to everything tells us that this is not happening in reality… at least not in the way it’s portrayed.
I was asking about the timing for this rewatch. Can you manage if it is earlier?
I’ve just got confirmation that I have to provide taxi-service, so here are the first of my thoughts on Episode 3.
= = =
Show gives us quite a thorough recap of the first 2 episodes
The music seems to hold dark portents! The masked game master is always scary and intimidating. It gives me a sense of relief that Akiyama Shinichi has managed to join the game.
The colour is deliberately saturated in reds. The characters have set/fixed expressions of worry/fear/shock… stylised so that I think of Japanese Kabuki for some reason, although they look nothing like Kabuki characters.
Is this also an anime ‘look’?
The explanation of the game is quite clear, but I never bother to figure out how they calculate the money in the billions/millions or hundreds of thousands of yen. Do you bother to check on the figures?
It’s interesting that unlike others who deplore Kanzaki Nao’s naivety, the expression on AS’ face is one of worry. KN says she was tricked into being at the Liar Game Round 2… he says: “Again, huh?” without frustration.
We see a flashback of some tragedy that is not entirely clear. At least someone has a backstory in this strange show.
Timestamp 7:40
I wonder, at this stage, if the girl sitting outside in anguish that she lost her 100,000 won was a genuine player who also had been tricked, or whether she was planted there to get AS to enter the game. If not for her still hanging around outside in despair, AS would not have been able to get into that building. (I only find out the truth later.)
I like that AS gave KN hope that together they could get out of the Liar Game.
The question about whether one was a man or woman is a good one… it shows KN that people do not answer truthfully but according to what they think will be the minority answer. Perhaps it also gives us a clue that the ‘woman’ who is X (the one who stole 100K yen from the girl outside) should be reconsidered. But it is not clear at all at this stage.
I’m back, but I wonder if I will be alone here.
@GB, I just see your message now, so too late. I will read your comments of episode later.
@FGB, some scary details in Episode with the mysterious LGB organization, but you’ll find soon that is not a violent drama and there aren’t murders, people fighting to death, etc. It’s very colorful and sometimes funny, but on top very cerebral and a main thematic about loyalty, honnesty, and how work the world (metaphor).
The Liar Game seems such an evil game since it involves “deliberately deceiving others and forcing them into the majority.” In other words, it forces a good person to choose to do something bad or become unfairly indebted to the game controllers.
The interesting thing is watching how the good KN retains her goodness (or not) throughout the trials of the game(s).
@WE,
I’m still here but I have to leave home soon. Generally if traffic is light I can get back pretty quickly but will still take about an hour for the round trip plus maybe waiting time.
= = =
My final comment for now:
The game only mentions the control of time to be important in the game strategy, but it’s what is done with the time that is crucial. Also it seems that it’s team forming and trust that is the necessary winning strategy. So conversely, perhaps the game is not actually evil but a challenge to individuals to get out of being self-centred only, and to cooperate with others to win as a team. Individualistic characters will lose.
Hi all,
I will likely have to leave early today again as this is the last weekend before a big road trip we are taking (and the last weekend before I retire — good grief!). It will by my oldest son (who decided to join us at the last minute — with his dog…) and my husband and I. Anyway, I have lots of laundry to do and bills to pay, groceries to buy, etc.
I did want to comment on the money. When I was in Japan (a LONG LONG time ago, 100 yen was ~ $100). I will try to check on the current rates. Also, at the time, I had a long conversation with my host father about numbers. Money (and maybe all numbers?) are not usually presented the way we think of them, i.e., xxx,xxx,xxx that is, lumped together with 10^3: $100; $10,000;$100,000; $100,000,000 but as 10^4. And they have terms for each ‘unit’ that (which I totally do not remember). So 100 yen is common (and 1000 yen), but after that (or so I remember) it is 10,000 yen (but he would have written this 10000), and so on. We did discuss larger numbers because we were discussing the relative cost of college tuition in the U.S. compared to Japan (at the time a huge, huge difference); I just do not remember the units.
Hi @salteddust. Have a nice trip! Let me know if an earlier time slot for our rewatch is possible.
@WE, same question to you!!
@FGB4877. So lovely to have you back. I agree about the first episode. I did not even finish the first time. It is much easier watching with a group. Have we started?
Hi salteddust, yeah start.
@GB, yeah, ealier time slot is ok for me.
About one of your previous comment, there was an error: you said to watch “Final Stage” after season 1. But this movie is the final conclusion. So to be watched after Season 2!!
I accidentally had the episodes set to #2 instead of #3; listening to Akiyama’s description of ‘cognitive dissonance’ I can see (possibly) how the next round has to play out (you have to stay as ‘B’ in the force of everyone thinking ‘A’) — or so I am thinking. Akiyama should be good at this. We will see if I am correct.
Thanks @GB. Hopefully it will be a good trip. It will be nice to see the ocean again.
I can make the earlier time (just don’t expect me to be out of my pajamas, ha ha… I may or may not make it the next few weeks anyway. It will depend on whether or not there is internet and whether or not our plans require leaving right away. Earlier might be better for that.
Getting the rules and then the strategies about that game could be complicated, but what’s great about LG. Even with complex stuff (both intellectual and psychological manipulations), explanations are always cristal clear. With some additional inserts to help.
I think episode 3 is clear enough, so it doesn’t need to rewatch a to understand all at once.
@GB, you pointed it out. Psychology used in the drama is real. And sadly it’s how work the world sometimes, when there is a bad leading. Making nice people bad ones. Using manipulation, deception, pressure, ignorance, etc. We can take a look at the famous “Milgram experiment” about that.
Ooo spider imagery. I am watching LG for the first time as I found the first episode to disturbing. And I have to say with some trepidation. I am afraid I am only clever enough to understand the strategy not to figure out it’s flaws and clearly there must be some (obviously another clever person could come up with the same strategy.
I have confidence in Akiyama-san but not that I understand (fully) what his plan is.
Clearly the team chosen by Kanzaki-san is very good at telegraphing their intentions, unfortunately. Like her, they seem a bit simple.
Hi @WE, I’m back!!!
OK Final Stage will be for later. I was getting confused.
You must have started Episode 4 already.
Episode 4 couldn’t hold my attention at first rewatch. Maybe I was too tired.
Interesting that AS wanted his vote to be counted last. He anticipated what was going to happen. He wanted Fukunaga to make a spectacle of himself?
Fukunaga Ueji is extremely unpleasant, such an obnoxious, repugnant, goading character and deliberately over-acted. However everyone is made to appear ‘weird’ and extreme except maybe AS. Even KN is extreme in her niceness and naivete.
Hi @salteddust and @WE, thanks for accommodating the sudden change in time. My daughter’s later shift happens in a stretch of 4 days with a day break and then it’s an earlier shift the next 4 days. I don’t want to confuse everyone by the fact that her late shift will therefore alternate.
🙃 🤪 😵💫 😅
Back to Episode 4 – Generally Fukunaga makes too much noise and laughs too soon. He’s so full of schadenfreude that I really want to see his downfall. However he’s an interesting character.
I was shocked to see him back again and again. He’s probably not a bad actor except that this role is so over-the-top!!!
He looks okay in his normal photo. I dislike the mushroom hair.
I post you an extract from the movie “I comme Icare” with famous french actor Yves Montand, but with english subtitles!! It should be instructive (2 parts):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yznmn5kHXBI
I’m lost in this rewatch. Are which point are we?
So I can jump here.
@WE, I somehow find myself at shirtless AS scene on phone with KN.
How am I going to watch the French show in 2 parts at the same time? LOLOL. I’ll watch it later.
So the losers can come back to watch the rest of the game through a one-way mirror!
@GB, ah, episode 4, you found that scene hey hey.
So your opinion… beautiful guy? ^^
Fukunaga is one of the famous characters of this show. Nicknamed “mushroom”. 🙂
@WE, no, he looks better with a shirt on. LOL
Useless having him without a shirt for any scene. Made no sense and didn’t help in any way.
Generally Fukunaga makes too much noise, too loud… and laughs too soon. He’s so full of schadenfreude that I really want to see his downfall. However he’s an interesting character.
@salteddust, your point about cognitive dissonance could well be. I think I suffered cognitive dissonance from time to time while watching this show. I thought I knew but didn’t know and didn’t know that I didn’t …. you know? Heheheh!
Fukunaga’s tirade and egotistical talk about how great he is at the expense of the others goes on for too long. I got tired listening to his strident tones.
As we can see, overall the opponents aren’t as smart as Akiyama. So from now, it needs some kind of very smart opponent, to create a challenge. Fukunaga is quite a good one. I don’t know at what point of the rewatch you are. Did he explained his moves?
@WE timestamp 19:40 Fuku is explaining his moves to KN.
Fukunaga is indeed smart, but too blinded by his pride. It would be a smart move to get him as a team member rather than a rival… as we shall see.
The tougher opponents to AS came in Season 2, I believe.
I just started Ep 4 and will have to quit soon. Saw the Akiyama-san was last to put his ballot in, again.
@GB, I don’t know if I was tired of Fukunaga in my first rewatchs (years ago). But after many other rewatchs, I ended to like so much the actor skill and fun way to play his character. Of course over the top, but so many details about the way to be bad and show it.
We can also see filming/editor techs, like when he immitate a feminine voice (with a slight echo effect), and we see his mouth moving, when the sound is probably a real feminine voice instead of the actor one. It’s a very flashy “sound” effect.
@salteddust, AS’s putting in the vote last or first or whenever is part of his strategy as well. It’s a psychological game that’s going on together with the Liar Game. Or rather, the Liar Game is a psychological game and one has to have a very flexible, logical, creative mind to play it.
KN is horrified by violence and bothers to protect Eto Koichi from further attack by Fukunaga. This is one of several moves she makes that earns her respect and trust.
Fuku counted his chickens before they hatched.
So again, a complex setup of Fukunaga strategy, on top of the previous one. But we understand in one go all this.
A line from Fukunaga “I was the master of the game”. It’s a line that’s come back many times during the show. Because many opponents have too much pride and think they are the most intelligent. So they are proud to say that with arrogance. Notice that’s even Akiyama say that sometimes and have some kind of arrogance too.
@WE, arrogance and intimidation seems to be part of the psychological game. Getting opponents to feel insecure, to lack confidence and to make mistakes.
AS is naturally arrogant but he does not keep rubbing people’s face in it like Fukunaga. He’s just super sure after thinking things true, and his confidence comes off as arrogant.
I like how AS dismisses KN by saying he knows she’s special LOL. (Another sign of his arrogance.) IE she did not come back to ensure he did not run off with the money, but because she wanted to cheer him on, unlike the others.
When the game woman intendant say “YES”.
yes (echo) yes (echo).
Mouahahaha, Fukunaga talked a lot with arrogrance. Now it’s Akiyama time.
There was a trap in the trap in the plan in the plan for X reasons… a perfect logic and reason for absolutly everything!! WaAAhhAaaHhHWAAA!!!
After all the noise Fukunaga made, AS’s reasonable explanations sounds so calm and coherent, and Fuku came off as deranged.
The game resets but now everyone knows what kind of person Fukunaga is. The next episode (Ep 5) becomes more interesting because of all the altercation they had in Ep 4.
So the girl that AS is playing as proxy for, was a genuine player who was cheated by Fukunaga. It was a fortunate thing then, that AS was able to meet her and enter the game.
I like AS’s strategy. He shows his vote immediately. It’s a psychological test now. Can the remaining 3 team up or not.
I’ve come to the end of Ep 4.
So next week we start at 12:30 UTC!!!
@GB, Akiyama showing his vote is really a big plot-twist to make unlock the jaw to anyone… other players, Nao, drama audience. Gaaaaaah!!
How could he win now? It’s like he made the sacrifice of a precious information, and gave up about one of his key possibilities to win now.
Dear @GB, thanks for taking me in!. Any hour you decide will be OK. As you know I watch with a lot of pauses so it is better for me to watch at my own rhythm (also, would not like to interrupt your flow 😉 ).
@WE, thanks for your review on the themes. I usually gravitate to lighter stuff so it will be interesting for me.
@SaltedDust, it is a pleasure to meet again!, was it during “Hotel del Luna” or “My Roommate is a Gumiho” the last time I did read you?
@WE, by showing his answer in advance, he was taking control of the game… it pushed them to do the only likely obvious thing to save themselves, and so put the game in his hands.
@FGB, come along any time… just keep coming and leaving comments so that @WE and I can read you. I come to BoD every day, several times a day and I get notifications in email when anyone comments on a thread I’m interested in.
The show retains it’s OTT feel, but it gets a bit better in that we get used to it, the characters actually do develop and the reasoning behind decisions becomes clear. At least the explanations come along. 🙂
@GB, of course, we guess there is a trick with that move. On first sight, it’s a move that give him disavantage. So we are dying to know why and how he will take advantage of this instead. AHHHAHH!!! Welcome in this world of ultimate masterminds. 🙂 🙂 🙂
@WE, with such a twist, it is hard not to go straight to Episode 5 to find out what happens LOL (That’s what I did earlier!!!)
I sort of knew but forgot. That was a good move … his ‘shirtless’ decision when he was on the phone with KN.
Thanks for the fun rewatch @WE, @FGB and @salteddust!
See you next week at the earlier time! 🙂
Yes I told you, once you watch that… The hook make you watch everything. What I did last week. I rewatched all the first season already. And there is indeed a point I don’t understand in the last game. I think in the past I was clear with that (I remember I made a drawing and clarified it), but today I don’t remember. Damn-it.
Maybe I will rewatch the whole season 2 now If I have some time.
See you soon.
@FGB, just take the time you need to enjoy. 😉 🙂
Hi all. I couldn’t help myself. I had to watch to the very end of episode 4 (I am slow). Now for the cleaning. Gaw… it was just so interesting to watch it all play out. And I liked the contrast between Akiyama-san’s calm reasoning and Fukunaga-san’s raving.
I might have to peak at episode 5 before I leave next week..
@salteddust, it gets hard to let go until you come to the end of the Round 2 game, doesn’t it? LOL. Been there, done that!! 😊
@FB. I first watched the rewatches with ‘W’; first time on BOD also. But I think we exchanged some comments on ‘Prayers for OldAmericanLady’. Hope to ‘see’ you in a few weeks (or earlier, I will watch the new time if I can, trip-wise).
I share 2 short videos about liar game.
Fukunaga saying “Ok”:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86J3kVXhHd8
A reading of the manga (a chapter we saw in episode 2):
Thanks @WE for the liar game videos. I didn’t know that it was adapted into an English language reading of the manga.
🙂 👍
Thanks for the 2 part video links to “I comme Icare”. It was definitely interesting.
It got me googling for info and here’s the experiment in real life.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
So the justification for why a million usually reasonable, ‘good’ individuals took part in genocide???
@GB,
Yes, this is explained quite well in the last part. The first part shows that 63% of people submit to an authority even when it is unethical. As with cognitive dissonance, this shows a real deficit of awareness in most people. It is therefore easy to manipulate people, in the absence of education or individual introspection leading to an understanding of the processes. Reading a serious book on manipulation is also helpful. For example, in the excerpt there is this case: a person who has made a choice tends to persist in that choice, even if it is a bad one, to justify that decision. This is a phenomenon that is already penalizing in itself, many decision makers persist in this way. It can also be used for manipulative purposes, by forcing a decision on someone, and then exploiting that.
In relation to drama, there are also two types of intelligence, in my opinion. The individual intelligence, allowing to obtain gains, even at the expense of others. A selfish gain then. Apparently, only the rest of the society suffers, but this is illusory because deteriorating the others ends up having a negative feedback (not to mention the law of karma, if one knows it). Nao’s character has a low individual intelligence but has a higher level intelligence (level in the sense “seen from above”), taking into account the general gain. Being aware that the general gain, if it is less for one person, is greater than the addition of the individual gains.
I give a simple example taken from everyday life, and two possible attitudes: a traffic circle that is experiencing a traffic jam. Vehicles are stuck in the center and have difficulty getting out because new vehicles are entering. A selfish person thinking only of his/her individual gain will try to get in as fast as possible, thinking that he/she will overtake the others and have a better chance of getting out. A higher level of intelligence would be to consider the situation not just for oneself, but as a whole. Therefore, do not enter the roundabout, so that those in the center have time to leave gradually. For this action to work, other people must also have this level of intelligence. And if this is the case, no one will lose out because the time it takes for the traffic to flow will be quick. In the end, these people will enter and exit the roundabout faster than those who made the individual choice, while solving the general problem.
Everything is like that in this world. This drama is a good representation of the world and people reactions. Thinking on this higher level isn’t just for moral reasons (don’t harm others, don’t be selfish), I think even someone selfish can find out that’s a better organisation. Just the intelligence to consider there is higher gain overall. But most of the time, selfish people don’t have this level of intelligence.
@WE good insights!
This we see in many dramas. A most reasonable situation is proposed and one is to gain from participating in it, so one does so willingly,… only to find out later that one has compromised oneself, and is trapped into continuing the ‘evil’ or admit to colluding with it.
Yes, this is a winning and overriding characteristic of Nao’s. Over and over again, she highlights the good of the group while she appears to sacrifice her individual good. But she sees it as a gain for herself as well. That’s a real gift: to rejoice in the good for the majority, regardless of the cost to oneself.
Concerning not entering the roundabout where there’s a traffic jam… In this situation, the problem I see are the ‘Fear of Losing Out’ (FLO) individuals. These are the ones who fear that if they don’t take advantage of the situation quickly, they will lose out to other individuals who do. When one FLO starts acting selfishly, several others who might have been willing to wait for the situation to ease, change their minds, and jump into the fray as well. So the jam gets worse.
I like that this is possibly the high concept of this work. If I may attempt to put it into a sentence… ‘An experiment to find out if individuals will rise above their own self interests for the greater good through a series of games, that tests their resolve over indebtedness versus the gain of money.’
Added to this may be the experiment to see if the example of one ‘weak’ person who consistently opts for the communal good, is powerful enough to cut through the more common sentiment of selfishness, to change others for the better.
Hi @pkml3, please move this thread from ‘Uncategorized’ to the ‘Liar Game’ Category. Thanks!