52 Comments On “Destined With You: Eps 5 & 6 Open Thread”
Welmaris
Should we add the on-one-knee-and-holding-her-hand pose to our vow list for this couple? SY looks like he’s proposing marriage to HJ. Anyone watching from a distance would think so. And HJ reacted as if she was fully aware their pose could engender misunderstanding.
Fern
@Welmaris, good idea to add that! Thank you for the updated thread, @packmule3.
🙂 Thanks for spotting the error on the Episode numbers, @Fern. I corrected it.
Cleopatra
Kalispera…
Why why why do I have to watch a cariture of HJ in front of the SML…? 🙄
The first time someone tells you who they are believe them… ☹️
Cleopatra
The more I see this drama, the more I am Team Shin Yu. He maybe be under the influence but he is definitely honest with what he wants and why.
So far, Hong Joo is lying to herself and finally she is taking responsibility for what she did.
I didn’t like that she was running around only telling SY to change their destinies. Like it is easy for him to do so…
I don’t like that SY is in disadvantage in their situation.
Also, his “fiancée” is a snake. And Shin Yu knows. The knock off watch is not Hong Joo…
Fern
@Cleopatra, Nayeon certainly doesn’t know when to back off and give SY room. I wonder what happened after he came to the celebration site? We may learn more tomorrow.
I think that Kwon Jae-kyung will get more interested in HJ simply because SY showed up and said some really intriguing things about HJ.
What do you think is the reason for the chicken blood? In the 1st episode, HJ recognised the dead fish as being part of a ritual. Is this a similar thing? Whoever did it didn’t make their reasons obvious.
Cleopatra
@Fern,
Do you think Nayeon has changed her ways? She is spoiled and does whatever she likes just because her father let’s her.
Shin Yu’s mother doesn’t like her. I would not dare to say to my future mother in law that she is cute! Of course, she would be offended.
Also, SY’s Omeoni is not pabo.
I don’t like Jae Kyung you know. He seems too pretentious for my liking. He is judgemental and is being harsh to people he shouldn’t be.
As for what you think that is not entirely wrong. He will stick around just to see how HJ will react. I think he likes the attention he gets.
I strongly disliked that Hong Joo took responsibility and kinda apologized to Shin Yu when her crush was implicated.
The way she was treating SY was awful. We can say many thing’s about Shin Yu’s behavior before the potion and we are going to be right, but afterwards, HJ is in fault and does not care at all.
I don’t like double standards.
If the story was in reverse, then we would have been writing long essays about SY being a complete a$$.
Cleopatra
@Fern,
Regarding the chicken blood, could it be the stalker?
Fern
@Cleopatra, I’m glad that HJ took responsibility in front of Jae-kyung for SY’s condition, even though she didn’t explain it. It was a very interesting interaction for the three of them.
No, I don’t think that Nayeon has changed. She has become skilled at acting nice in public, that’s all. She is trying to paint SY into a corner. The meal was a product of her plotting.
I keep wondering what SY’s mother will make of HJ. I feel that they will have an affinity.
Good Twin
I vote for plant guy as being behind the chicken blood. He said he had heard about it and then said “there are a lot of lunatics that appear perfectly fine from the outside”. Was he referring to himself?
Who are the other lunatics who appear perfectly fine from the outside? JK? he has admitted as much – that he is broken inside. SY? He is fine (some would say VERY) from the outside but haunted by a bloodied disembodied hand – so he’s a lunatic too. FL is her own kind of crazy but she is pretty guileless. So far what you see is what you get with her.
The editing of this episode was very abrupt – I am assuming that some of the missing pieces will be revealed tomorrow.
Welmaris
I’ve never before in a Kdrama seen a death day commemoration done the way HJ does it in Episode 5. I’ve see visits with flowers to a graveside or columbarium; sometimes soju is poured out on a grave. Usually we see alters with food, drink, and incense set up in a home, survivors dressed in black kneeling to the deceased’s memorial. HJ does her father’s death day commemoration in a practical, but heartfelt way, treating his memory to a nice dinner out. I wonder if this was of her own invention because she’s a sole survivor, or because it better represents the relationship she had with her father, fun and comfortable.
Welmaris
After watching all of Episode 5, I better understand why HJ observes her father’s death day unconventionally: his body was never found, so she wasn’t able to hold a proper funeral. I’m curious why after saving two children who’d fallen into the river, why he disappeared. Was he swept away in the river’s current? Had he expended all his energy saving the children so that he couldn’t drag himself out of the water? That HJ was told to look for her father in the sea, not in the river, suggests his body was swept all the way downstream and into the ocean. But what if he isn’t dead? What if, as in many Kdramas, a near-death experience left him with amnesia, and he started a different life after having almost drowned. His being at sea could be him now working on a fishing boat.
I feel sorry for SY’s mother. She seems like a vivacious person, and appears to love her son, but her husband does not respect her and speaks to her in an emotionally abusive way. Her suggesting to her husband that they go out to look at the stars together gives me the impression that she’s willing to work on rebuilding romance in their marriage. Hubby could’ve said yes, as soon as he’s done on the potty, but he completely shut her down. Her unhappiness in the relationship, and her decision to end the marriage, are the result of a cumulation of many small hurts.
Welmaris
One of the recent episodes of Behind Your Touch had a reference to chicken blood in relation to shamanism. The lovesick girl went to the MacArthur shaman to get talismans made to force Detective Moon to fall in love with her and to cause disaster to befall any possible romance between Detective Moon and Dr. Bong. The shaman started to write the talismans using a red pen, and was called out for cutting corners. His lovesick client said he should at least be using chicken blood. It is implied he did so, because we see a live chicken being delivered to the shaman’s business, then later we see him eating chicken for dinner.
In Goblin we see that goblins are repelled by horse blood. As a prank, Grim Reaper, wrote a semi-threatening message to Goblin with horse blood on a floor mat, causing Goblin to jump away from it in horror when he almost stepped on it.
Fern
@welmaris, there was a similar funeral in the k-drama Chocolate. A friend sat on a dock or a walkway by a pond or lake and had offerings and soju set up. It wasn’t that the deceased didn’t have another funeral that time, but that the friend wanted to say goodbye privately. Yes, in this case it seems that HJ’s father wasn’t found, so there may have been no funeral. But I think he’s dead because the shaman said something about because he saved the lives of 2 people, he would go straight up…but I can’t find that scene now and can’t remember the exact words. I wonder about HJ’s mother. Is she still alive but not a sympathetic character?
I agree with you about SY’s mother. It’s like the death of a marriage by a thousand cuts.
Good catch on the chicken blood. I was wondering about it and it made me look it up. I found pig blood and lots LOTS of other interesting things as well. There really are MacArthur shamans (and other generals and leaders from over centuries). You may know this already (Wikipedia):
“Each mudang will have their own personal pantheon of deities, one that may differ from the pantheon of a mudang they trained under.[65] This individual pantheon is the chusin,[66] and a mudang may add new deities to it during their career.[66] Some of these will be considered guardian deities,[67] each referred to as a taesin.[38] These deities bestow myŏnggi upon the mudang, enabling the latter to have visions and intuition that allows them to perform their tasks.[68]
The deities are called janggunsin.[69] The pantheon of deities, which has changed over time,[70] is termed sindang,[17] with over 130 musok divinities having been identified.[70] The deities can be divided into those embodying natural or cosmological forces and those who were once human, including monarchs, officials, and generals.[70] Some derive from Daoist or Buddhist traditions and others are unique to Korean vernacular religion.[29] They are deemed capable of manifesting in various material forms, such as through paintings or statues,[71] or as inhabiting specific landscape locations, such as trees, rocks, springs, and stone piles.[72] The anthropologist Laurel Kendall suggested that the relationship that mudang had with these spirit-inhabited sites was akin to animism.[73] The gods appear in human form.[74]”
Fern
@Good Twin, when I looked for chicken blood in relation to Korean shamanism, I found the bit I posted above in response to @Welmaris. It made me reflect that rather than lunatics, we are getting hints about current and past lives from these people.
There’s the plant guy – could he be an active shaman whose deity or deities are trees? He seemed to direct plant choices, whether the geraniums or the trees for JK’s garden. I haven’t looked up the meaning of the chrysanthemums, but white ones seem to be used for funerals in SK, which is why JK made that remark. The direction of the plant choices may or may not be sinister. He almost seems more interested in HJ than in her plant orders.
JK seems to have an affinity with animals, particularly dogs.
SY’s mother could be stars, or constellations.
The director of the Haum construction seemed to have an emperor complex, as though he could do anything and not have to apologise, a ‘droit de seigneur.’
Nayeon said she felt comfortable around palaces – a past life princess?
-The stone pile near the shrine/haunted house could have been a spirit-inhabited location.
Cleopatra
Kalimera Ladies,
@Welmaris & @Fern,
I read you both. I think someone is casting spells as well and I am not talking about Hong Joo. Maybe that’s why she is also the chosen one. She has to stop the one who does evil spells?
@Fern,
Nayeon, could be a princess in her past life that ordered for Hong Joo’s head. If she had an obsession with Shin Yu back then also, then is it not weird at all.
Fern
@Cleopatra, that is what I was thinking about Nayeon as well. SY or Jang Mu Jin – his name at the time – was upper class and HJ/Aeng-cho was poor. Jang Mu Jin was more likely to be matched with Nayeon’s past princess.
Having heard HJ’s drunk/sleepy speech about her father’s death, I (and SY) understand more about her sarcasm when she re-met Nayeon. Nayeon said she also suffered – from a lack of friends when she studied overseas. Was Nayeon sent away after doing something particularly bad? “Ah, you were lonely because you went to study overseas?” HJ asked sarcastically. SY played into Nayeon’s ploy by defending her and blaming SY for being the cause of her own loneliness. The shaman understood HJ’s loneliness was due to the death of her father and the present continuing bullying by her co-workers.
If Hong Joo has to stop someone else, she will have to be very careful about how she uses the remaining spells. She may also have to gather allies. It seems like she is contemplating using a spell to reverse the Love spell and/or also the spell for good fortune, if she’s looking for a shaggy dog. There was a shaggy dog in the background of one scene, but I can’t find it now. It was the same as the one in the book – an English sheepdog or bearded collie type.
Cleopatra
@Fern,
I think that in this life Hong Joo is having allies already. I mean she has the Halmeoni Shaman on her side.
Shin Yu even though he doesn’t want to, but I think he has fallen for her. He is not stupid at all and he had realized the facade NaYeon is using. After listening to HJ’s side of the story.
One ally that hasn’t met yet is Shin Yu’s Omeoni. I totally believe that SY’s mother will be by her side and will try to boycott the marriage. The only things that needs to be done, is to watch them together. If she realizes that her son doesn’t actully love Nayeonk, she won’t let them marry.
Also, I felt his mother’s sadness all the way. To want to watch the stars and not to have that someone with whom you will. As it seems, SY’s father wanted some woman to bear his offspring regardless of their hereditary condition / the curse.
SY’s father seems not to take into consideration her feelings at all. I do hope she will proceed with the divorce. She might be more happy and do things she likes more.
I agree with you that she has to be very careful about how she uses the remaining spells. The complications will be all over the place if she doesn’t.
Welmaris
Did we all appreciate the humor of the scene in the taxi in Episode 5 when drunk/drowsy HJ puts her hand by SY’s face and SY mutters to himself that he’d prefer the Red Hand at that moment.
Cleopatra
@Welmaris,
Yes of course…”My precious…” 😂🤣
Fern
@Cleopatra and @Welmaris, SY told HJ that if he drank, the consequences might be worse than a kiss to the person sitting next to him. When SY tells HJ that he has never drunk, she asks if it’s because of his illness. He denies that – he says it runs in his family, but the others didn’t avoid it (drinking). “My father thinks it’s due to a curse. I didn’t want him saying that to me, so I didn’t drink.” It seems that his father may have had an experience when drunk that made him think he was cursed. Did he get SY’s mother pregnant whilst drunk? She is an actress or celebrity who in retrospect thinks she married too young.
At the end of the episode when SY does get drunk, he discovers that kissing someone near him is indeed his drunken habit.
Fern
Here’s a bit of research on the plants HJ got for the garden outside of JK’s door:
Regarding the plant man, on re-watch I noticed that he said, “If you’re buying that (chrysanthemums), sacred bamboo’s on the house.” It was a conditional offer, so why would sacred bamboo balance chrysanthemums?
Nandina domestica (the name of sacred bamboo) isn’t really a bamboo. On the internet I see that “The roots and stems are antitussive, astringent, febrifuge, stomachic and tonic. A decoction is used in the treatment of fever in influenza, acute bronchitis, whooping cough, indigestion, acute gastro-enteritis, tooth abscess, pain in the bones and muscles and traumatic injuries.”
In addition: “- Helps us stay grounded in our divine identity especially during spiritual growth spurts. – Helps increase flow of kundalini energy via the shushumna, the etheric spinal column through which light energy flows.” This seems to be Hindu-based lore, so I’m not sure how relative it is.
The berries turn into Hydrogen cyanide when ingested and the leaves and stems are also poisonous to animals and livestock.
“It is considered a symbol of good luck in Japan and China.
Ancient ben-cao mentions the planting of sacred bamboo in gardens to prevent fire.
Historically, it has also been planted next to wash-basins in Japanese gardens to protect against evil.”
@Fern super interesting. Here is a link to the Korean Ministry of Culture which explains the significance of bamboo and chrysanthemums during the Joseph period. These along with the plum and orchid are called the Four Gracious Plants. “The seonbi spirit is also represented by the chrysanthemum which blooms late but lasts a longtime and overcomes adversity. And lastly the righteousness of the bamboo, a heart that never loses faith and courage, also manifests the seonbi spirit.”
“Seonbis” were the wisemen scholars of the era and seonbi spirit refers to their virtues or values which were embodied in the four plants.
With this definition, I would say HJ embodies the seonbi spirit of overcoming adversity. It also makes me think that the plant man is himself an ancient wiseman. Who knows where the writer will take us though?
It’s a bit late for the SML to act jealous…You had your chance and you blew it, pal.
@Fern as you said above, just because he is threatened by another male, the SML started to stick around Hong Joo.
So, Hong Joo started to like SY as well…
How many spells are they going to use?
In this episode, they used the Disaster Spell that ended in Disaster.
The Florist guy aka the stalker, I think he even stole her pijamas. *gross*
Totally Team Shin Yu in this one…
P.S.Did you notice it as well? Wook and SY’s Omeoni? 🧐
Good Twin
@Cleopatra – so it was the plant guy? I haven’t watched the episode yet but I’m with you on the second male lead. (Plus SML is BORING)
Getting back to the ruminations on chrysanthemums being a symbol of overcoming adversity. In that link above they say the Joseon scholar who embodied the spirit of the chrysanthemum was Jeong Yak-yong whose pen name was Dasan. Interestingly, just like HJ, Dasan was a civil servant and he had to overcome loneliness and despair after becoming exiled. He was known to sip chrysanthemum tea.
Fern
Thanks for the follow-on research on the plants. I tried searching for those plants linked with Korea, but I must have used the wrong words. Very interesting about the civil servant Dasan. I’ve seen chrysanthemum tea in shops but haven’t tasted it.
agdr03
Weren’t we discussing about Christmas decorations just the other day? Episode 6 has Christmas trees already. 😂
Cleopatra
Kalimera @Good Twin,
He was the one who sent her the roses. If he delivered them as well, he would know which hours she and JG are not at home. Her pj’s are missing. So, my guess is that he is the stalker and the one who was following her the other day.
Fern
@agdr03, I noticed the autumn colours in the parks and landscapes, but I was surprised to see the Christmas tree in the background in episode 6. I don’t think they were trying to show the passage of time, because all of this drama seems to play out in quick succession so far.
@Good Twin, I’m not sure that the SML is boring so much as he is quite a perfect bureaucrat. Also, I don’t trust people who describe themselves as boring or having a bad sense of humour because they may be hiding something or wish to be seen that way. He’s efficient and not swayed much by personal emotions so far. I haven’t yet really seen him show anything but general, neighbourly concern for the FL. Even when SY showed up drunk, he said, I told you to date a nice guy, not a guy with a girlfriend. Although he is protective, I don’t think he is attracted to HJ, although it could develop. I actually think the actor is quite good. He portrays the thinking process of his character quite well. He may be that type of person described by the CEO of Haum who said poor people are more likely to tolerate bad practices in business.
The previews make it look like he will learn about the spells and participate at some level.
Cleopatra
@Fern,
Ha-Joon, the actor who plays the SML is a pretty good actor. You should watch the drama “Missing: The Other Side”. I have watched both seasons.
I agree that Kwon Jae-Gyeong is a bureaucrat. Still, I don’t like that he comes too strong towards Shin Yu when he doesn’t know that he is under a spell. BTW, I am still not okay that Hong Joo is not taking full responsibility for what she did.
So far, the people who have drunk the love spell potion are:
1. Shin Yu
2. Na Joong-Beom – the plant guy.
3. Mr. Gong might have drunk, but not a very big quantity.
He clearly has feelings for Mrs. Ma.
So, Hong Joo who wants to be loved badly, didn’t really think what would happen if things could actually go wrong. She believed that everything will turn out as she wanted and there was no chance that someone else could drink the potion, instead of her crush Kwon Jae-Gyeong.
The ramifications of her actions were reminded to her by Shin Yu, when the plant guy came to pursue her after the disaster spell went wrong, aka Flowers 😛
The thing we have realized and she hasn’t is that HJ is also attracted by Shin Yu, regardless of what she says. She is swayed little by little…
Fern
@Cleopatra, *personally* I didn’t think Jae Gyeong came on too strong with SY. SY is drunk, engaged to someone else, lying about the address and looks like he’s behaving badly by two-timing. There is no reason he should be less annoyed with SY when neither SY nor HJ tell him the reason for SY’s actions. And even if they told him about a spell, would he believe it right away? It would most likely seem ridiculous to him, or even that both of them are very psychologically suggestible to believe a spell would work.
I agree that HJ should own up to her irresponsible use of the spell. She has caused turbulence with several people. (Could this have happened in the past as well?) I’m especially uneasy about the plant guy. Hey, I wonder what would happen if SY gave HIM the red paper?
Yes, HJ is getting swayed by SY. The worst thing she could say to him about why he’s not her type is he’s too tall and too handsome? LOL. Partly, as he said earlier, she may be swayed because she likes anyone who is nice to her. Even SY is starting to wonder how much of his affection towards her is due to the spell…
Nayeon’s crocodile tears then admitting to HJ that she apologised because she would be working at the same county building. What a dreadful person!
grace
Just finished episode 6! And @Cleopatra, HJ is definitely slowly being moved by SY.
The thing is SML is a crush to HJ. She IS head over heels for him but there is a kind of shallowness in the crushing. But with SY, she has gone though challenges with him, shared with him a very raw and personal part of her life: her Father’s death. I felt that even though SY has appeared again and again at HJ’s house, other than the time he was drunk, he has been rather respectful to her. He expresses his feelings matter of factly, but is not manipulative. I’m not sure how to put a finger on it… and while I pity him for being under a spell he doesn’t want to, I’m glad he is struggling with liking her. After all, he is engaged (kinda against his will) and he knows she is crazy over SML.
The flower guy is a different obsession isn’t it? If he was the one who stole her PJs…it feels creepily obsessive. If he was the one who threw the chicken blood to get her attention, that will be also insanity. It’s just a wrong way to get attention.
Maybe the spell works on the kind of connection and desires they originally have for HJ and amplifies it. So if like what someone said earlier maybe SY did have something or curiosity for HJ earlier.
Cleopatra
@Fern,
*personally* I don’t think the SML is that close to HJ, in order to react like this. He was the one who told her he doesn’t like her in that way in the first place. So, for me he had lost his chance and now it is not his job!
Just because Shin Yu is coming to see Hong Joo and JG doesn’t know their relationship, he came to say to Hong Joo “I told you to find a better man, not one with a girlfriend.” At the same time, JG doesn’t know that SY broke up with NaYeon in the first place and his father begged her to return!
Hong Joo by not taking responsibilty for casting the love spell with SY as her first victim and now we also have the plant man as a second, she continued to pursue JG, which made him to take such liberties.
So for me, Hong Joo is the one who is at fault and then JG.
Scriptwise, the jakkanim made her that way in order for her and Shin Yu to overcome those hurdles in order to be together.
Do I like that HJ acts like this? Not at all. That’s why I am also frustrated with the fact that there is imbalance in their relationship. She doesn’t understand SY’s pain and she brushes it off so easily.
But when the plant man kinda ambushed her, she finally realized what she had done? Why? Because he did it in a rough way, while SY was handsome?
We are currently in the 21th century and still we have female characters who are kinda caricatures and we call that cute. That’s why I am frustrated with the jakkanim who built Hong Joo that way.
It is not okay to have female characters who act childish and immature, while they are not taking responsibility for their actions.
It is another thing altogether, for someone to be lonely and have traumas, whether is a man or a woman. But let me see that trauma and the person who has it, as a real person does.
Regarding NaYeon, we have discussed that she is a spoiled child and a manipulative person. I was not amazed by her crocodile tears.
Fern
@Grace, you are correct about the shallowness. HJ likes Jae Gyeong’s image but not him as such. She heard and internalised the other council workers’ words about him. He wrote a commendation for her and it spurred on her first positive image of him as a dog shelter volunteer. She couldn’t adequately explain her crush on JG to SY when he asked. Neither could she explain it to JG well. She started to use the other women’s description of him, but realised that and re=phrased it.
Cleopatra
Hey @grace!
Good to see you here! I agree with what you are saying about the shallowness in the crush. Especially after hearing him killing the buzz in several occasions.
Would you say to someone that wanted to beautify the garden *for you* that these are plants for a funeral?
Or just because he forgot to cook the rice, just go upstairs and come again in 30 minutes in order to eat?
I agree with you about what you said about Shin Yu and how he has already connected with Hong Joo, due to the time they have had together.
Regarding what you said in the end, I believe that since Shin Yu had the Red Hand aka the curse aka HJ’s previous reincarnation, he was attracted to her from the very beginning, even though he didn’t notice it in the beginning.
I also believe that the night SY had the car accident, it was the same night Hong Joo conducted the love spell. He almost fainted from pain or his disease because he felt two powers at once, targeting him.
1. The Red Hand tried to caress him and he said no.
2. Hong Joo was doing the love spell.
Basically one soul in different time space was asking for his attention.
In one way, we could say that the Red Hand (that is kinda missing after the second spell) aka Hong Joo in this reincarnation was asking from him to love her, although she didn’t know it at the time. She was asking for SY specifically to come to her and not the SML.
As for the plant guy, he kinda seems unstable. Most likely he is mourning for his wife and his emotions are turning into a stalkish love for Hong Joo.
Fern
@Cleopatra, we shall just have to agree to disagree about Jae Gyeong’s interactions here. I think he’s in the dark both about the spells and about the state of the relationship between SY and Nayeon. To me JG is acting with good intentions as a neighbour. If I were a single woman living alone, I would want a neighbour of mine to question the situation if such a thing arose.
We are in accord with all of the rest.
agdr03
All I want is for the love spell to be broken and for SY to break off the engagement.
I am feeling like they are cheating whenever they are together even though it is mostly the spell that’s bringing them together.
I don’t know why but I can’t just accept that SY has fallen for HJ. Maybe likes her yes but he used the word love.
I thought the dog hunting scene was cute especially when HJ asked for the paw and she got two. ☺️
I was cringing for HJ with the house warming party. Oyster! 🤣
Fern
@agdr03, HJ couldn’t get oysters off her mind. 😉😆
Yes, SY falling for HJ is just another Cinderella story unless they go through some more experiences together. Of course there is the Shaman saying, even before the love spell, that their destinies are entwined due to their past lives, but is that enough to cause love? It’s true that she is generally nicer to people than his fiancee, but so are very many others. Is SY just as lonely as HJ and just as vulnerable to someone being nice to him?
Yes, we’ll see if the ‘love’ survives the end of the spell because it’s hard to tell if his words are true or not.
grace
@Cleopatra, I’m finally catching up with a drama with enough time to join in the conversation “real time” as the drama comes out. Finally! 😛 Glad to talk about this drama with everyone here!
I also don’t think SML/JG is that close the HJ. But he is being a gentleman and doing the right things, like welcoming a neighbour, standing up for injustice, speaking up truthfully. I wasn’t sure he looked too excited to have HJ as a neighbour. So I presume him being a neighbour is pure coincidence?
I find his character a rather empty of emotions, probably wearied by life, politics and family issues. Maybe it would be HJ who can potentially draw the emotions out of him, naturally. Except that she did that to SY…through the love spell!!!
@Fern, I need to go back and see what she said about liking JG!
Then again, to see it in parallel, the love spell is an artificial (aka shallow) means of falling in love also isn’t it?
When I think of that, the way she crush on JG is different from the way SY ‘crush’ on her. We don’t hear her say about her heart beating when JG comes close, or those close encounters that makes her go nervous, or missing him terribly.
grace
@Cleopatra, I just had to laugh at the ‘funeral’ flowers for her new neighbour. She also said ‘sacred bamboo’ which JG misinterpreted as “boyfriend”. The netflix translation was quite off from the original…but I applaud their effort to make it a pin english word (Sacred bamboo – Sacred baby boo)
I am assuming the Korean words are somewhat similar to Chinese words, I went to check the Chinese translation.
“Sacred bamboo” “南天竹“ sounds a lot like “男朋友“ meaning “Boyfriend”. All the more sounding so similar for the Korean words! (on a side note, if I say it in the Hokkien dialect, it sounds similar too)
In other words, she is saying she’s planting a boyfriend in her garden??? But with the chrysanthemum planted in front of her ‘boyfriend’…doesn’t that look like she is paying respects to her dead boyfriend? :O
grace
A “pun” on the English word, I meant!
Fern
@grace, paying respect to the boyfriend planted in her garden is just too funny! Thanks for the more accurate translation.
Yes, I’m going to re-watch episode 6 now to see if I missed something.
Good Twin
@Grace I read that the word play is very clever in the drama in addition to a lot of references to pop culture. Thank you for interpreting that scene. I have another question for you if you know. When she was talking to JG at the convenience store and she was talking about the full moon. He told her that she should be eating round bread rather than triangular kimbap. Was that a reference to moon cakes? Something else?
Regarding the setting in December – I think this is going to advance the plot to something happening around or on lunar new year. Just a guessing here. I also think the road construction is going to relate to their ancient history. Maybe something will be uncovered during construction.
I am really enjoying this drama. I thought the love confession when he was drunk was moving (we can debate whether it is sincere or not – I’m just judging the quality of the confession.) I laughed at him dancing gleefully in the car while driving when he thinks he is over the spell only to splash her. And I liked the ending where he he said “Apparently I am in love with her.” That he said it out loud to JG. So now the three main characters have to deal with it – at least they’re all on same page. Also the dog scene was funny. They must have had a blast filming it. What did ML have on his face to keep the dog licking him?
Welmaris
I would not say the SML JG is emotionless: we saw him speaking angrily on the phone with his father. Being boring and humorless are likely side effects of repressing emotions. I get the impression JG’s father frequently demands money, to the point of JG giving up his nice home in order to give his dad a large cash payout. And with that, JG tells his father he is done: not only refusing to give any more money, but saying there will be no future contact. I predict Daddy Dear will show up at City Hall and JG will blow up in public, shocking everyone who sees JG as perfect. In a situation where JG is shunned, I believe HJ will stand with him, knowing how painful it is to be an outcast.
NaYeon admits to chasing after SY to make him her boyfriend. Even SY’s friend and former law office colleague, Wook, knows that the pursuit was one sided. SY tried to break up with NaYeon when he learned his health was severely compromised. Maybe it was noble idiocy, trying to spare NaYeon pain and the responsibility of caring for a sick person. But it could also be that in learning he had an incurable condition that could kill him suddenly, SY’s priorities came into clearer focus. Why spend his potentially final days following the agenda of someone he doesn’t love? He acquiesced to NY’s persistence before, but now that every minute has become precious, he doesn’t care to maintain the charade.
NY knows that SY doesn’t love her, which is why her behavior is escalating after he told her he wanted to end their relationship. She shows up at his home with gifts, including couple slippers and pajamas, inferring intimate overnight stays. She orchestrates a big proposal, luring SY to the site with news that something bad has happened to her (knowing he’s too nice to refuse to see her when she’s in need), and tells him she’s tired of waiting for him to propose. Take note: He had not proposed to her, and even she is clear on that fact. They are not engaged. NY uses her connections (her dad being mayor) to get a job at City Hall, so she’ll be at SY’s workplace. NY is a brazen stalker.
We get a hint about NY’s beef with HJ in high school. NY accuses HJ of stealing a friend’s boyfriend, and when HJ says that wasn’t the case and tries to explain, she’s cut off. NY isn’t interested in the truth, but seems to relish having an excuse to bully HJ. NY also demonstrates that she’s two-faced, saying she was never HJ’s friend, but only thinks of HJ as her maid. For HJ to decide to drop out of school, the bullying must’ve gotten much worse after the soup-on-seat incident.
Fern
@Welmaris, good points about NY. I think that something really awful happened after the soup incident because to me it sounds like NY was expelled and sent overseas. Somehow, despite not finishing school then, HJ managed to pass the civil service exam.
I also don’t think SY breaking with Nayeon was noble idiocy. My impression was that he suspected she wouldn’t be the type to sincerely and lovingly care for him if he were dying – it would really bother her.
On another topic, regarding the model of the Titanic, suddenly SY’s dad has turned into a caricature in episode 6 and his mother isn’t far behind. I’m a bit disappointed in the script writer. Are SY’s parents just for comic relief?
Good Twin
@Fern I wonder if all of the modern characters will appear as their 300 years’ prior counterparts. If the mother is given the role of courtesan or concubine in Joseon times I may throw something at the screen in protest.
Anna A
Red hand replaced with HJ hand.
In the first episode, he told his friend he has not seen red hand’s face. In the taxi scene, we got to see HJ’s hand moving across his face like how red hand does it; the difference is we get to see that it is HJ.
Spell or no spell, SY is drawn to HJ right? When she asked him for Shaman’s address, he seemed to be affected by what HJ said but being lonely and wants someone to eat with her. He calls her at night to check on the opening of the box. He thought about her reaction when he caught her confessing to JG. The spell just magnified those feelings?
In episodes 5 and 6, he seems to be aware that he does like her even if there is no spell and is trying to find out HJ feelings for him. That’s why, he asked if she had ever felt something for him at the end of episode 5 and he was able to be honest with his feelings at the end of episode 6 when HJ shared that she was affected by him.
I just don’t understand why he doesn’t break up with NY officially.
Fern
@Good Twin, maybe most of them will appear. Especially the Haum CEO, Lee Hyun Seo, who does entitled evil pretty well. In the scene at about 24.06 episode 6 he points his finger and commands SY to sit, like a dog. SY excuses himself and tries to leave and he points to the chair and says, “That’s why I’m telling you to sit.” The mayor finally picks up on the atmospheric rudeness and requests SY to sit more politely. CEO Lee’s little self-thrilled smile then gave me the shivers. Good acting.
It was an interesting scene because the reason SY accepted the position at Onju City Hall was to be able to prosecute Haum Construction and its ilk. CEO Lee just pulled the rug from under his feet. I don’t believe for a minute that the 3.7 billion won would be less than the benefit of development preference to Haum. It seemed to me that CEO Lee and the mayor negotiated this in advance without input from SY or JG.
I’m sure we’ll get more of the earlier times but I don’t know how or when. I’m a bit nervous about it. 😰 If the people stay in character, the Mayor would be the local ruler and SY and CEO Lee competing court figures?
As an aside, during the dog hunting scene, did you hear them calling all of the common Korean last names? 😁
Fern
@Anna A, I wondered why SY didn’t break up officially as well. I think it was @Good Twin who criticised him for his indecision after an earlier episode. SY did break it off, but Nayeon didn’t accept it nor did SY’s father. I feel that she didn’t tell anyone else that he wanted to break up and then kept manipulating the situation until he attended the proposal site. I re-watched the end of the proposal scene. At the end, Nayeon was hugging SY and he didn’t react at first and then slowly he put his arms around her as well, showing acceptance of the proposal, even if reluctantly. So frustrating.
I think we’re supposed to believe that SY is drawn to HJ and visa-versa even without the spell. They both admit that parts of the spell have been good. She says was less lonely and now blushes around him. He enjoyed the sensations. I want to see how much of the feeling is left if the spell can be broken.
Good Twin
@Fern I hadn’t thought about it but you’re right. Much like he can’t escape HJ because their destinies are intertwined, he can’t easily escape Haum likely for the same reason.
I was not troubled by SY’s relationship with Nayeon. He is under a spell with HJ. He is unsure of his feelings. He tried to break up with Nayeon and she refused. If it continues after he becomes more certain of his feelings toward HJ then it’s a problem. I do think that she is going to unleash on HJ when she discovers relationship between HJ and SY.
Fern
@Good Twin, I agree with you about Nayeon. She is so good at playing the good girl and victim, but she’s also such a manipulator. You know the quote: “Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned, nor Hell a fury like a woman scorned”
Should we add the on-one-knee-and-holding-her-hand pose to our vow list for this couple? SY looks like he’s proposing marriage to HJ. Anyone watching from a distance would think so. And HJ reacted as if she was fully aware their pose could engender misunderstanding.
@Welmaris, good idea to add that! Thank you for the updated thread, @packmule3.
🙂 Thanks for spotting the error on the Episode numbers, @Fern. I corrected it.
Kalispera…
Why why why do I have to watch a cariture of HJ in front of the SML…? 🙄
The first time someone tells you who they are believe them… ☹️
The more I see this drama, the more I am Team Shin Yu. He maybe be under the influence but he is definitely honest with what he wants and why.
So far, Hong Joo is lying to herself and finally she is taking responsibility for what she did.
I didn’t like that she was running around only telling SY to change their destinies. Like it is easy for him to do so…
I don’t like that SY is in disadvantage in their situation.
Also, his “fiancée” is a snake. And Shin Yu knows. The knock off watch is not Hong Joo…
@Cleopatra, Nayeon certainly doesn’t know when to back off and give SY room. I wonder what happened after he came to the celebration site? We may learn more tomorrow.
I think that Kwon Jae-kyung will get more interested in HJ simply because SY showed up and said some really intriguing things about HJ.
What do you think is the reason for the chicken blood? In the 1st episode, HJ recognised the dead fish as being part of a ritual. Is this a similar thing? Whoever did it didn’t make their reasons obvious.
@Fern,
Do you think Nayeon has changed her ways? She is spoiled and does whatever she likes just because her father let’s her.
Shin Yu’s mother doesn’t like her. I would not dare to say to my future mother in law that she is cute! Of course, she would be offended.
Also, SY’s Omeoni is not pabo.
I don’t like Jae Kyung you know. He seems too pretentious for my liking. He is judgemental and is being harsh to people he shouldn’t be.
As for what you think that is not entirely wrong. He will stick around just to see how HJ will react. I think he likes the attention he gets.
I strongly disliked that Hong Joo took responsibility and kinda apologized to Shin Yu when her crush was implicated.
The way she was treating SY was awful. We can say many thing’s about Shin Yu’s behavior before the potion and we are going to be right, but afterwards, HJ is in fault and does not care at all.
I don’t like double standards.
If the story was in reverse, then we would have been writing long essays about SY being a complete a$$.
@Fern,
Regarding the chicken blood, could it be the stalker?
@Cleopatra, I’m glad that HJ took responsibility in front of Jae-kyung for SY’s condition, even though she didn’t explain it. It was a very interesting interaction for the three of them.
No, I don’t think that Nayeon has changed. She has become skilled at acting nice in public, that’s all. She is trying to paint SY into a corner. The meal was a product of her plotting.
I keep wondering what SY’s mother will make of HJ. I feel that they will have an affinity.
I vote for plant guy as being behind the chicken blood. He said he had heard about it and then said “there are a lot of lunatics that appear perfectly fine from the outside”. Was he referring to himself?
Who are the other lunatics who appear perfectly fine from the outside? JK? he has admitted as much – that he is broken inside. SY? He is fine (some would say VERY) from the outside but haunted by a bloodied disembodied hand – so he’s a lunatic too. FL is her own kind of crazy but she is pretty guileless. So far what you see is what you get with her.
The editing of this episode was very abrupt – I am assuming that some of the missing pieces will be revealed tomorrow.
I’ve never before in a Kdrama seen a death day commemoration done the way HJ does it in Episode 5. I’ve see visits with flowers to a graveside or columbarium; sometimes soju is poured out on a grave. Usually we see alters with food, drink, and incense set up in a home, survivors dressed in black kneeling to the deceased’s memorial. HJ does her father’s death day commemoration in a practical, but heartfelt way, treating his memory to a nice dinner out. I wonder if this was of her own invention because she’s a sole survivor, or because it better represents the relationship she had with her father, fun and comfortable.
After watching all of Episode 5, I better understand why HJ observes her father’s death day unconventionally: his body was never found, so she wasn’t able to hold a proper funeral. I’m curious why after saving two children who’d fallen into the river, why he disappeared. Was he swept away in the river’s current? Had he expended all his energy saving the children so that he couldn’t drag himself out of the water? That HJ was told to look for her father in the sea, not in the river, suggests his body was swept all the way downstream and into the ocean. But what if he isn’t dead? What if, as in many Kdramas, a near-death experience left him with amnesia, and he started a different life after having almost drowned. His being at sea could be him now working on a fishing boat.
I feel sorry for SY’s mother. She seems like a vivacious person, and appears to love her son, but her husband does not respect her and speaks to her in an emotionally abusive way. Her suggesting to her husband that they go out to look at the stars together gives me the impression that she’s willing to work on rebuilding romance in their marriage. Hubby could’ve said yes, as soon as he’s done on the potty, but he completely shut her down. Her unhappiness in the relationship, and her decision to end the marriage, are the result of a cumulation of many small hurts.
One of the recent episodes of Behind Your Touch had a reference to chicken blood in relation to shamanism. The lovesick girl went to the MacArthur shaman to get talismans made to force Detective Moon to fall in love with her and to cause disaster to befall any possible romance between Detective Moon and Dr. Bong. The shaman started to write the talismans using a red pen, and was called out for cutting corners. His lovesick client said he should at least be using chicken blood. It is implied he did so, because we see a live chicken being delivered to the shaman’s business, then later we see him eating chicken for dinner.
In Goblin we see that goblins are repelled by horse blood. As a prank, Grim Reaper, wrote a semi-threatening message to Goblin with horse blood on a floor mat, causing Goblin to jump away from it in horror when he almost stepped on it.
@welmaris, there was a similar funeral in the k-drama Chocolate. A friend sat on a dock or a walkway by a pond or lake and had offerings and soju set up. It wasn’t that the deceased didn’t have another funeral that time, but that the friend wanted to say goodbye privately. Yes, in this case it seems that HJ’s father wasn’t found, so there may have been no funeral. But I think he’s dead because the shaman said something about because he saved the lives of 2 people, he would go straight up…but I can’t find that scene now and can’t remember the exact words. I wonder about HJ’s mother. Is she still alive but not a sympathetic character?
I agree with you about SY’s mother. It’s like the death of a marriage by a thousand cuts.
Good catch on the chicken blood. I was wondering about it and it made me look it up. I found pig blood and lots LOTS of other interesting things as well. There really are MacArthur shamans (and other generals and leaders from over centuries). You may know this already (Wikipedia):
“Each mudang will have their own personal pantheon of deities, one that may differ from the pantheon of a mudang they trained under.[65] This individual pantheon is the chusin,[66] and a mudang may add new deities to it during their career.[66] Some of these will be considered guardian deities,[67] each referred to as a taesin.[38] These deities bestow myŏnggi upon the mudang, enabling the latter to have visions and intuition that allows them to perform their tasks.[68]
The deities are called janggunsin.[69] The pantheon of deities, which has changed over time,[70] is termed sindang,[17] with over 130 musok divinities having been identified.[70] The deities can be divided into those embodying natural or cosmological forces and those who were once human, including monarchs, officials, and generals.[70] Some derive from Daoist or Buddhist traditions and others are unique to Korean vernacular religion.[29] They are deemed capable of manifesting in various material forms, such as through paintings or statues,[71] or as inhabiting specific landscape locations, such as trees, rocks, springs, and stone piles.[72] The anthropologist Laurel Kendall suggested that the relationship that mudang had with these spirit-inhabited sites was akin to animism.[73] The gods appear in human form.[74]”
@Good Twin, when I looked for chicken blood in relation to Korean shamanism, I found the bit I posted above in response to @Welmaris. It made me reflect that rather than lunatics, we are getting hints about current and past lives from these people.
There’s the plant guy – could he be an active shaman whose deity or deities are trees? He seemed to direct plant choices, whether the geraniums or the trees for JK’s garden. I haven’t looked up the meaning of the chrysanthemums, but white ones seem to be used for funerals in SK, which is why JK made that remark. The direction of the plant choices may or may not be sinister. He almost seems more interested in HJ than in her plant orders.
JK seems to have an affinity with animals, particularly dogs.
SY’s mother could be stars, or constellations.
The director of the Haum construction seemed to have an emperor complex, as though he could do anything and not have to apologise, a ‘droit de seigneur.’
Nayeon said she felt comfortable around palaces – a past life princess?
-The stone pile near the shrine/haunted house could have been a spirit-inhabited location.
Kalimera Ladies,
@Welmaris & @Fern,
I read you both. I think someone is casting spells as well and I am not talking about Hong Joo. Maybe that’s why she is also the chosen one. She has to stop the one who does evil spells?
@Fern,
Nayeon, could be a princess in her past life that ordered for Hong Joo’s head. If she had an obsession with Shin Yu back then also, then is it not weird at all.
@Cleopatra, that is what I was thinking about Nayeon as well. SY or Jang Mu Jin – his name at the time – was upper class and HJ/Aeng-cho was poor. Jang Mu Jin was more likely to be matched with Nayeon’s past princess.
Having heard HJ’s drunk/sleepy speech about her father’s death, I (and SY) understand more about her sarcasm when she re-met Nayeon. Nayeon said she also suffered – from a lack of friends when she studied overseas. Was Nayeon sent away after doing something particularly bad? “Ah, you were lonely because you went to study overseas?” HJ asked sarcastically. SY played into Nayeon’s ploy by defending her and blaming SY for being the cause of her own loneliness. The shaman understood HJ’s loneliness was due to the death of her father and the present continuing bullying by her co-workers.
If Hong Joo has to stop someone else, she will have to be very careful about how she uses the remaining spells. She may also have to gather allies. It seems like she is contemplating using a spell to reverse the Love spell and/or also the spell for good fortune, if she’s looking for a shaggy dog. There was a shaggy dog in the background of one scene, but I can’t find it now. It was the same as the one in the book – an English sheepdog or bearded collie type.
@Fern,
I think that in this life Hong Joo is having allies already. I mean she has the Halmeoni Shaman on her side.
Shin Yu even though he doesn’t want to, but I think he has fallen for her. He is not stupid at all and he had realized the facade NaYeon is using. After listening to HJ’s side of the story.
One ally that hasn’t met yet is Shin Yu’s Omeoni. I totally believe that SY’s mother will be by her side and will try to boycott the marriage. The only things that needs to be done, is to watch them together. If she realizes that her son doesn’t actully love Nayeonk, she won’t let them marry.
Also, I felt his mother’s sadness all the way. To want to watch the stars and not to have that someone with whom you will. As it seems, SY’s father wanted some woman to bear his offspring regardless of their hereditary condition / the curse.
SY’s father seems not to take into consideration her feelings at all. I do hope she will proceed with the divorce. She might be more happy and do things she likes more.
I agree with you that she has to be very careful about how she uses the remaining spells. The complications will be all over the place if she doesn’t.
Did we all appreciate the humor of the scene in the taxi in Episode 5 when drunk/drowsy HJ puts her hand by SY’s face and SY mutters to himself that he’d prefer the Red Hand at that moment.
@Welmaris,
Yes of course…”My precious…” 😂🤣
@Cleopatra and @Welmaris, SY told HJ that if he drank, the consequences might be worse than a kiss to the person sitting next to him. When SY tells HJ that he has never drunk, she asks if it’s because of his illness. He denies that – he says it runs in his family, but the others didn’t avoid it (drinking). “My father thinks it’s due to a curse. I didn’t want him saying that to me, so I didn’t drink.” It seems that his father may have had an experience when drunk that made him think he was cursed. Did he get SY’s mother pregnant whilst drunk? She is an actress or celebrity who in retrospect thinks she married too young.
At the end of the episode when SY does get drunk, he discovers that kissing someone near him is indeed his drunken habit.
Here’s a bit of research on the plants HJ got for the garden outside of JK’s door:
Regarding the plant man, on re-watch I noticed that he said, “If you’re buying that (chrysanthemums), sacred bamboo’s on the house.” It was a conditional offer, so why would sacred bamboo balance chrysanthemums?
Nandina domestica (the name of sacred bamboo) isn’t really a bamboo. On the internet I see that “The roots and stems are antitussive, astringent, febrifuge, stomachic and tonic. A decoction is used in the treatment of fever in influenza, acute bronchitis, whooping cough, indigestion, acute gastro-enteritis, tooth abscess, pain in the bones and muscles and traumatic injuries.”
In addition: “- Helps us stay grounded in our divine identity especially during spiritual growth spurts. – Helps increase flow of kundalini energy via the shushumna, the etheric spinal column through which light energy flows.” This seems to be Hindu-based lore, so I’m not sure how relative it is.
The berries turn into Hydrogen cyanide when ingested and the leaves and stems are also poisonous to animals and livestock.
“It is considered a symbol of good luck in Japan and China.
Ancient ben-cao mentions the planting of sacred bamboo in gardens to prevent fire.
Historically, it has also been planted next to wash-basins in Japanese gardens to protect against evil.”
Credit to https://www.healthbenefitstimes.com/sacred-bamboo/
@Fern super interesting. Here is a link to the Korean Ministry of Culture which explains the significance of bamboo and chrysanthemums during the Joseph period. These along with the plum and orchid are called the Four Gracious Plants. “The seonbi spirit is also represented by the chrysanthemum which blooms late but lasts a longtime and overcomes adversity. And lastly the righteousness of the bamboo, a heart that never loses faith and courage, also manifests the seonbi spirit.”
“Seonbis” were the wisemen scholars of the era and seonbi spirit refers to their virtues or values which were embodied in the four plants.
With this definition, I would say HJ embodies the seonbi spirit of overcoming adversity. It also makes me think that the plant man is himself an ancient wiseman. Who knows where the writer will take us though?
Anyway here is the link – really interesting stuff. Thank you Fern for pointing the way deeper into the symbolism. https://www.kocis.go.kr/eng/openVideos/view.do?seq=27205&page=5&pageSize=10&photoPageSize=6&totalCount=0&searchType=&searchText=#
*Joseon (iPhone!)
Anneyong!
It’s a bit late for the SML to act jealous…You had your chance and you blew it, pal.
@Fern as you said above, just because he is threatened by another male, the SML started to stick around Hong Joo.
So, Hong Joo started to like SY as well…
How many spells are they going to use?
In this episode, they used the Disaster Spell that ended in Disaster.
The Florist guy aka the stalker, I think he even stole her pijamas. *gross*
Totally Team Shin Yu in this one…
P.S.Did you notice it as well? Wook and SY’s Omeoni? 🧐
@Cleopatra – so it was the plant guy? I haven’t watched the episode yet but I’m with you on the second male lead. (Plus SML is BORING)
Getting back to the ruminations on chrysanthemums being a symbol of overcoming adversity. In that link above they say the Joseon scholar who embodied the spirit of the chrysanthemum was Jeong Yak-yong whose pen name was Dasan. Interestingly, just like HJ, Dasan was a civil servant and he had to overcome loneliness and despair after becoming exiled. He was known to sip chrysanthemum tea.
Thanks for the follow-on research on the plants. I tried searching for those plants linked with Korea, but I must have used the wrong words. Very interesting about the civil servant Dasan. I’ve seen chrysanthemum tea in shops but haven’t tasted it.
Weren’t we discussing about Christmas decorations just the other day? Episode 6 has Christmas trees already. 😂
Kalimera @Good Twin,
He was the one who sent her the roses. If he delivered them as well, he would know which hours she and JG are not at home. Her pj’s are missing. So, my guess is that he is the stalker and the one who was following her the other day.
@agdr03, I noticed the autumn colours in the parks and landscapes, but I was surprised to see the Christmas tree in the background in episode 6. I don’t think they were trying to show the passage of time, because all of this drama seems to play out in quick succession so far.
@Good Twin, I’m not sure that the SML is boring so much as he is quite a perfect bureaucrat. Also, I don’t trust people who describe themselves as boring or having a bad sense of humour because they may be hiding something or wish to be seen that way. He’s efficient and not swayed much by personal emotions so far. I haven’t yet really seen him show anything but general, neighbourly concern for the FL. Even when SY showed up drunk, he said, I told you to date a nice guy, not a guy with a girlfriend. Although he is protective, I don’t think he is attracted to HJ, although it could develop. I actually think the actor is quite good. He portrays the thinking process of his character quite well. He may be that type of person described by the CEO of Haum who said poor people are more likely to tolerate bad practices in business.
The previews make it look like he will learn about the spells and participate at some level.
@Fern,
Ha-Joon, the actor who plays the SML is a pretty good actor. You should watch the drama “Missing: The Other Side”. I have watched both seasons.
I agree that Kwon Jae-Gyeong is a bureaucrat. Still, I don’t like that he comes too strong towards Shin Yu when he doesn’t know that he is under a spell. BTW, I am still not okay that Hong Joo is not taking full responsibility for what she did.
So far, the people who have drunk the love spell potion are:
1. Shin Yu
2. Na Joong-Beom – the plant guy.
3. Mr. Gong might have drunk, but not a very big quantity.
He clearly has feelings for Mrs. Ma.
So, Hong Joo who wants to be loved badly, didn’t really think what would happen if things could actually go wrong. She believed that everything will turn out as she wanted and there was no chance that someone else could drink the potion, instead of her crush Kwon Jae-Gyeong.
The ramifications of her actions were reminded to her by Shin Yu, when the plant guy came to pursue her after the disaster spell went wrong, aka Flowers 😛
The thing we have realized and she hasn’t is that HJ is also attracted by Shin Yu, regardless of what she says. She is swayed little by little…
@Cleopatra, *personally* I didn’t think Jae Gyeong came on too strong with SY. SY is drunk, engaged to someone else, lying about the address and looks like he’s behaving badly by two-timing. There is no reason he should be less annoyed with SY when neither SY nor HJ tell him the reason for SY’s actions. And even if they told him about a spell, would he believe it right away? It would most likely seem ridiculous to him, or even that both of them are very psychologically suggestible to believe a spell would work.
I agree that HJ should own up to her irresponsible use of the spell. She has caused turbulence with several people. (Could this have happened in the past as well?) I’m especially uneasy about the plant guy. Hey, I wonder what would happen if SY gave HIM the red paper?
Yes, HJ is getting swayed by SY. The worst thing she could say to him about why he’s not her type is he’s too tall and too handsome? LOL. Partly, as he said earlier, she may be swayed because she likes anyone who is nice to her. Even SY is starting to wonder how much of his affection towards her is due to the spell…
Nayeon’s crocodile tears then admitting to HJ that she apologised because she would be working at the same county building. What a dreadful person!
Just finished episode 6! And @Cleopatra, HJ is definitely slowly being moved by SY.
The thing is SML is a crush to HJ. She IS head over heels for him but there is a kind of shallowness in the crushing. But with SY, she has gone though challenges with him, shared with him a very raw and personal part of her life: her Father’s death. I felt that even though SY has appeared again and again at HJ’s house, other than the time he was drunk, he has been rather respectful to her. He expresses his feelings matter of factly, but is not manipulative. I’m not sure how to put a finger on it… and while I pity him for being under a spell he doesn’t want to, I’m glad he is struggling with liking her. After all, he is engaged (kinda against his will) and he knows she is crazy over SML.
The flower guy is a different obsession isn’t it? If he was the one who stole her PJs…it feels creepily obsessive. If he was the one who threw the chicken blood to get her attention, that will be also insanity. It’s just a wrong way to get attention.
Maybe the spell works on the kind of connection and desires they originally have for HJ and amplifies it. So if like what someone said earlier maybe SY did have something or curiosity for HJ earlier.
@Fern,
*personally* I don’t think the SML is that close to HJ, in order to react like this. He was the one who told her he doesn’t like her in that way in the first place. So, for me he had lost his chance and now it is not his job!
Just because Shin Yu is coming to see Hong Joo and JG doesn’t know their relationship, he came to say to Hong Joo “I told you to find a better man, not one with a girlfriend.” At the same time, JG doesn’t know that SY broke up with NaYeon in the first place and his father begged her to return!
Hong Joo by not taking responsibilty for casting the love spell with SY as her first victim and now we also have the plant man as a second, she continued to pursue JG, which made him to take such liberties.
So for me, Hong Joo is the one who is at fault and then JG.
Scriptwise, the jakkanim made her that way in order for her and Shin Yu to overcome those hurdles in order to be together.
Do I like that HJ acts like this? Not at all. That’s why I am also frustrated with the fact that there is imbalance in their relationship. She doesn’t understand SY’s pain and she brushes it off so easily.
But when the plant man kinda ambushed her, she finally realized what she had done? Why? Because he did it in a rough way, while SY was handsome?
We are currently in the 21th century and still we have female characters who are kinda caricatures and we call that cute. That’s why I am frustrated with the jakkanim who built Hong Joo that way.
It is not okay to have female characters who act childish and immature, while they are not taking responsibility for their actions.
It is another thing altogether, for someone to be lonely and have traumas, whether is a man or a woman. But let me see that trauma and the person who has it, as a real person does.
Regarding NaYeon, we have discussed that she is a spoiled child and a manipulative person. I was not amazed by her crocodile tears.
@Grace, you are correct about the shallowness. HJ likes Jae Gyeong’s image but not him as such. She heard and internalised the other council workers’ words about him. He wrote a commendation for her and it spurred on her first positive image of him as a dog shelter volunteer. She couldn’t adequately explain her crush on JG to SY when he asked. Neither could she explain it to JG well. She started to use the other women’s description of him, but realised that and re=phrased it.
Hey @grace!
Good to see you here! I agree with what you are saying about the shallowness in the crush. Especially after hearing him killing the buzz in several occasions.
Would you say to someone that wanted to beautify the garden *for you* that these are plants for a funeral?
Or just because he forgot to cook the rice, just go upstairs and come again in 30 minutes in order to eat?
I agree with you about what you said about Shin Yu and how he has already connected with Hong Joo, due to the time they have had together.
Regarding what you said in the end, I believe that since Shin Yu had the Red Hand aka the curse aka HJ’s previous reincarnation, he was attracted to her from the very beginning, even though he didn’t notice it in the beginning.
I also believe that the night SY had the car accident, it was the same night Hong Joo conducted the love spell. He almost fainted from pain or his disease because he felt two powers at once, targeting him.
1. The Red Hand tried to caress him and he said no.
2. Hong Joo was doing the love spell.
Basically one soul in different time space was asking for his attention.
In one way, we could say that the Red Hand (that is kinda missing after the second spell) aka Hong Joo in this reincarnation was asking from him to love her, although she didn’t know it at the time. She was asking for SY specifically to come to her and not the SML.
As for the plant guy, he kinda seems unstable. Most likely he is mourning for his wife and his emotions are turning into a stalkish love for Hong Joo.
@Cleopatra, we shall just have to agree to disagree about Jae Gyeong’s interactions here. I think he’s in the dark both about the spells and about the state of the relationship between SY and Nayeon. To me JG is acting with good intentions as a neighbour. If I were a single woman living alone, I would want a neighbour of mine to question the situation if such a thing arose.
We are in accord with all of the rest.
All I want is for the love spell to be broken and for SY to break off the engagement.
I am feeling like they are cheating whenever they are together even though it is mostly the spell that’s bringing them together.
I don’t know why but I can’t just accept that SY has fallen for HJ. Maybe likes her yes but he used the word love.
I thought the dog hunting scene was cute especially when HJ asked for the paw and she got two. ☺️
I was cringing for HJ with the house warming party. Oyster! 🤣
@agdr03, HJ couldn’t get oysters off her mind. 😉😆
Yes, SY falling for HJ is just another Cinderella story unless they go through some more experiences together. Of course there is the Shaman saying, even before the love spell, that their destinies are entwined due to their past lives, but is that enough to cause love? It’s true that she is generally nicer to people than his fiancee, but so are very many others. Is SY just as lonely as HJ and just as vulnerable to someone being nice to him?
Yes, we’ll see if the ‘love’ survives the end of the spell because it’s hard to tell if his words are true or not.
@Cleopatra, I’m finally catching up with a drama with enough time to join in the conversation “real time” as the drama comes out. Finally! 😛 Glad to talk about this drama with everyone here!
I also don’t think SML/JG is that close the HJ. But he is being a gentleman and doing the right things, like welcoming a neighbour, standing up for injustice, speaking up truthfully. I wasn’t sure he looked too excited to have HJ as a neighbour. So I presume him being a neighbour is pure coincidence?
I find his character a rather empty of emotions, probably wearied by life, politics and family issues. Maybe it would be HJ who can potentially draw the emotions out of him, naturally. Except that she did that to SY…through the love spell!!!
@Fern, I need to go back and see what she said about liking JG!
Then again, to see it in parallel, the love spell is an artificial (aka shallow) means of falling in love also isn’t it?
When I think of that, the way she crush on JG is different from the way SY ‘crush’ on her. We don’t hear her say about her heart beating when JG comes close, or those close encounters that makes her go nervous, or missing him terribly.
@Cleopatra, I just had to laugh at the ‘funeral’ flowers for her new neighbour. She also said ‘sacred bamboo’ which JG misinterpreted as “boyfriend”. The netflix translation was quite off from the original…but I applaud their effort to make it a pin english word (Sacred bamboo – Sacred baby boo)
I am assuming the Korean words are somewhat similar to Chinese words, I went to check the Chinese translation.
“Sacred bamboo” “南天竹“ sounds a lot like “男朋友“ meaning “Boyfriend”. All the more sounding so similar for the Korean words! (on a side note, if I say it in the Hokkien dialect, it sounds similar too)
In other words, she is saying she’s planting a boyfriend in her garden??? But with the chrysanthemum planted in front of her ‘boyfriend’…doesn’t that look like she is paying respects to her dead boyfriend? :O
A “pun” on the English word, I meant!
@grace, paying respect to the boyfriend planted in her garden is just too funny! Thanks for the more accurate translation.
Yes, I’m going to re-watch episode 6 now to see if I missed something.
@Grace I read that the word play is very clever in the drama in addition to a lot of references to pop culture. Thank you for interpreting that scene. I have another question for you if you know. When she was talking to JG at the convenience store and she was talking about the full moon. He told her that she should be eating round bread rather than triangular kimbap. Was that a reference to moon cakes? Something else?
Regarding the setting in December – I think this is going to advance the plot to something happening around or on lunar new year. Just a guessing here. I also think the road construction is going to relate to their ancient history. Maybe something will be uncovered during construction.
I am really enjoying this drama. I thought the love confession when he was drunk was moving (we can debate whether it is sincere or not – I’m just judging the quality of the confession.) I laughed at him dancing gleefully in the car while driving when he thinks he is over the spell only to splash her. And I liked the ending where he he said “Apparently I am in love with her.” That he said it out loud to JG. So now the three main characters have to deal with it – at least they’re all on same page. Also the dog scene was funny. They must have had a blast filming it. What did ML have on his face to keep the dog licking him?
I would not say the SML JG is emotionless: we saw him speaking angrily on the phone with his father. Being boring and humorless are likely side effects of repressing emotions. I get the impression JG’s father frequently demands money, to the point of JG giving up his nice home in order to give his dad a large cash payout. And with that, JG tells his father he is done: not only refusing to give any more money, but saying there will be no future contact. I predict Daddy Dear will show up at City Hall and JG will blow up in public, shocking everyone who sees JG as perfect. In a situation where JG is shunned, I believe HJ will stand with him, knowing how painful it is to be an outcast.
NaYeon admits to chasing after SY to make him her boyfriend. Even SY’s friend and former law office colleague, Wook, knows that the pursuit was one sided. SY tried to break up with NaYeon when he learned his health was severely compromised. Maybe it was noble idiocy, trying to spare NaYeon pain and the responsibility of caring for a sick person. But it could also be that in learning he had an incurable condition that could kill him suddenly, SY’s priorities came into clearer focus. Why spend his potentially final days following the agenda of someone he doesn’t love? He acquiesced to NY’s persistence before, but now that every minute has become precious, he doesn’t care to maintain the charade.
NY knows that SY doesn’t love her, which is why her behavior is escalating after he told her he wanted to end their relationship. She shows up at his home with gifts, including couple slippers and pajamas, inferring intimate overnight stays. She orchestrates a big proposal, luring SY to the site with news that something bad has happened to her (knowing he’s too nice to refuse to see her when she’s in need), and tells him she’s tired of waiting for him to propose. Take note: He had not proposed to her, and even she is clear on that fact. They are not engaged. NY uses her connections (her dad being mayor) to get a job at City Hall, so she’ll be at SY’s workplace. NY is a brazen stalker.
We get a hint about NY’s beef with HJ in high school. NY accuses HJ of stealing a friend’s boyfriend, and when HJ says that wasn’t the case and tries to explain, she’s cut off. NY isn’t interested in the truth, but seems to relish having an excuse to bully HJ. NY also demonstrates that she’s two-faced, saying she was never HJ’s friend, but only thinks of HJ as her maid. For HJ to decide to drop out of school, the bullying must’ve gotten much worse after the soup-on-seat incident.
@Welmaris, good points about NY. I think that something really awful happened after the soup incident because to me it sounds like NY was expelled and sent overseas. Somehow, despite not finishing school then, HJ managed to pass the civil service exam.
I also don’t think SY breaking with Nayeon was noble idiocy. My impression was that he suspected she wouldn’t be the type to sincerely and lovingly care for him if he were dying – it would really bother her.
On another topic, regarding the model of the Titanic, suddenly SY’s dad has turned into a caricature in episode 6 and his mother isn’t far behind. I’m a bit disappointed in the script writer. Are SY’s parents just for comic relief?
@Fern I wonder if all of the modern characters will appear as their 300 years’ prior counterparts. If the mother is given the role of courtesan or concubine in Joseon times I may throw something at the screen in protest.
Red hand replaced with HJ hand.
In the first episode, he told his friend he has not seen red hand’s face. In the taxi scene, we got to see HJ’s hand moving across his face like how red hand does it; the difference is we get to see that it is HJ.
Spell or no spell, SY is drawn to HJ right? When she asked him for Shaman’s address, he seemed to be affected by what HJ said but being lonely and wants someone to eat with her. He calls her at night to check on the opening of the box. He thought about her reaction when he caught her confessing to JG. The spell just magnified those feelings?
In episodes 5 and 6, he seems to be aware that he does like her even if there is no spell and is trying to find out HJ feelings for him. That’s why, he asked if she had ever felt something for him at the end of episode 5 and he was able to be honest with his feelings at the end of episode 6 when HJ shared that she was affected by him.
I just don’t understand why he doesn’t break up with NY officially.
@Good Twin, maybe most of them will appear. Especially the Haum CEO, Lee Hyun Seo, who does entitled evil pretty well. In the scene at about 24.06 episode 6 he points his finger and commands SY to sit, like a dog. SY excuses himself and tries to leave and he points to the chair and says, “That’s why I’m telling you to sit.” The mayor finally picks up on the atmospheric rudeness and requests SY to sit more politely. CEO Lee’s little self-thrilled smile then gave me the shivers. Good acting.
It was an interesting scene because the reason SY accepted the position at Onju City Hall was to be able to prosecute Haum Construction and its ilk. CEO Lee just pulled the rug from under his feet. I don’t believe for a minute that the 3.7 billion won would be less than the benefit of development preference to Haum. It seemed to me that CEO Lee and the mayor negotiated this in advance without input from SY or JG.
I’m sure we’ll get more of the earlier times but I don’t know how or when. I’m a bit nervous about it. 😰 If the people stay in character, the Mayor would be the local ruler and SY and CEO Lee competing court figures?
As an aside, during the dog hunting scene, did you hear them calling all of the common Korean last names? 😁
@Anna A, I wondered why SY didn’t break up officially as well. I think it was @Good Twin who criticised him for his indecision after an earlier episode. SY did break it off, but Nayeon didn’t accept it nor did SY’s father. I feel that she didn’t tell anyone else that he wanted to break up and then kept manipulating the situation until he attended the proposal site. I re-watched the end of the proposal scene. At the end, Nayeon was hugging SY and he didn’t react at first and then slowly he put his arms around her as well, showing acceptance of the proposal, even if reluctantly. So frustrating.
I think we’re supposed to believe that SY is drawn to HJ and visa-versa even without the spell. They both admit that parts of the spell have been good. She says was less lonely and now blushes around him. He enjoyed the sensations. I want to see how much of the feeling is left if the spell can be broken.
@Fern I hadn’t thought about it but you’re right. Much like he can’t escape HJ because their destinies are intertwined, he can’t easily escape Haum likely for the same reason.
I was not troubled by SY’s relationship with Nayeon. He is under a spell with HJ. He is unsure of his feelings. He tried to break up with Nayeon and she refused. If it continues after he becomes more certain of his feelings toward HJ then it’s a problem. I do think that she is going to unleash on HJ when she discovers relationship between HJ and SY.
@Good Twin, I agree with you about Nayeon. She is so good at playing the good girl and victim, but she’s also such a manipulator. You know the quote: “Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned, nor Hell a fury like a woman scorned”