One of the things I want us bitches to distinguish ourselves from other forums is our ability to critique a drama without getting personal. There’s already enough “makjang” (or soap opera-ish emotions) going on in kdramas without us having to engage in histrionics of soap operatic proportions in our discussions as well.
Wenchanteur had this to say:
As a lover of Song Jae-Jung’s thrilling, stimulating and mind blowing stories, my opinion shouldn’t surprise you.
Kim Eun sook is the worst drama writer on duty. Besides, to love these two writers at the same time seems to me to be an impossible brain contortion. I suspect the people who manage to do so are suffering from a serious problem: schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, or Alzheimer’s disease.
In the past, she’s done good dramas, “on air”, “secret garden”. And even “the heirs” wasn’t so bad.
Then it’s the descent into hell. “Descendants of the sun”. Since drama was popular, I watched the first episode with a friend who was unfamiliar with drama. I, for one, hadn’t seen it either. I felt ashamed. That friend hates drama now.
“Goblin” is the most dreadful piece of crap ever produced, totally boring and deadly. If you feel like laughing, I’ll cut and paste a funny review I made of it on your blog. The worst part is, it works! The slowest, most boring, most redundant, most forced drama, it still works. Somehow this writer has some kind of genius.
“Mr. Sunshine”. Now, it’s clear I wouldn’t even go for even 10 minutes. A friend of mine reviewed it on her blog. She liked it, but it was “slow and soft.” Well, there you go. Of course it’s flabby…
To understand this writer’s hateful philosophy, refer to this article:
“The King Monarch of Eternity”: No use trying.
To make matters worse, the lead actor will be Lee Minho!
The favourite actor, inexplicably, of a whole bunch of young chicks.
Inexplicable, maybe not, considering how handsome he is.
Except that as an actor, this guy is completely flat and makes the same face from start to finish.
I don’t dare say he’s completely lame, because on some dramas he surprised me.
It’s normal, you see his flat head for hours, and then SUDDEN… Something’s happening!
OH! An emotion appears on Lee Minho’s face! He’s in pain, he’s crying, it’s beautiful.
Is he capable of that? At times? When he really wants to?I realize that my comment is not very sympathetic. But should I say that or censor my sincerity?
Your objection is noted, wenchanteur.
There’s no need to censor your comments because there’s only one opinion in this blog that matters to readers here, and that’s MINE. 😂 It’s my blog, after all.
So when I let a comment stand as is, it means that I tolerated it. My toleration does NOT mean endorsement, however. I tolerated other people’s opinions, even those I disagree with, for a variety of reasons, including but not limited to:
a) I believe in the free exchange of ideas;
b) It costs me less time and effort to ignore a post than to debate a post;
c) As a self-preservation, I avoid fools;
d) I don’t subscribe to a “one world, everybody in lockstep” conformity;
e) I’m not “Catcher in the Rye” trying to save children and lemmings;
f) And finally, it’s a small kindness that I can offer: to let people have a say.
I understand that, for many posters here, it takes guts to come out and express an opinion in a language that’s probably not their native one. As long as they aren’t trolling for attention, I let them be.
Now, who’s Song Jae-Jung?
For kdrama newbies here: Song Jae-Jung is the writer of two hits “W” and “Memories of the Alhambra.”
I didn’t have time to “W,” but I liked MoA. Although MoA was panned by some viewers, it made perfect sense to me. And as I said, that’s all that matters to me.
And who’s Kim Eun Sook?
She’s the writer of blockbusters like “Heirs,” “Goblin,” “Descendants of the Sun,” and “Mr. Sunshine.” I gave three of these a pass, but I watched “Goblin.” Again, I liked it because it made perfect sense to me.
See the common thread there? I don’t mind what others think about a drama because ultimately, I’m the arbiter of my personal taste and I judge dramas according my own worldview.
That’s why I find articles about a show’s ratings and rankings rather spurious. If you notice, I never post about news on how a kdrama is faring on TV. Too often, these statistics are used to influence viewers to watch (or not watch) a show when I believe that popularity shouldn’t be the reason for watching a show. People aren’t lemmings jumping off a cliff because all the other lemmings are doing so.
But citing statistics isn’t the only method of persuasion.
Quoting an article is another way to persuade the readers to watch (or not watch) a show. You linked an article from seoulbeats, wenchanteur, which was also making the rounds in Dramabeans (Thanks to our resident informant, nrllee, lol). I was surprised that nobody called the writer out on it.
I read it, and frankly, I can’t tell whether that critic is sour grapes or not. lol.
Let me go over the article, okay?
1. Viewers’ reception
The seoulbeats guest writer criticizes KES’ primary objective of pleasing the viewers…as if it’s a bad thing.
The main reason for her success is her awareness of what the viewers want. In an interview this year, Kim Eun-sook stated “if the viewers can’t accept it then it isn’t a good script. Dramas should be pleasing to their viewers.” This realization marked a turning point in her career after City Hall, her lowest rated yet a highly praised drama. Kim Eun-sook said that she “contemplated on whether to write a drama that benefits the world or one will garner good ratings” and decided to “abandon the depth showed in City Hall”. Instead, she decided to write “an easy, light drama for the whole family”. She wanted it “to be fun”. That drama was the extremely successful Secret Garden.
For Kim Eun-sook, it is about the viewers and their feelings and opinions rather than depth or critical praise. Her dramas since have all displayed this belief but the best example of this is her 2016 drama, Descendants of the Sun. In a country with conscription and the threat of North Korea next door, the military theme resonated with the people and tapped into patriotic feelings, leading to the show being a major success with a peak audience share of 38.8%.
This critic’s perspective is value-laden. He (or she? For expediency, I’ll just assume the writer is male) is insinuating that it’s wrong of KES to want to write a drama that’s:
a. easy and light for the whole family,
b. fun, and
c. a ratings success.
He also suggests that KES should disregard the pleasure the audience would derive whenever she writes her screenplay. Instead she should go for “depth showed in ‘City Hall.'” (“City Hall” is a 2009 kdrama; I didn’t watch it.)
But what really takes the cake is this comment, “For Kim Eun-sook, it is about the viewers and their feelings and opinions rather that depth or critical praise.”
Snort.
Don’t you see the blatant snobbery here?Those two paragraphs imply the following:
a. ordinary viewers aren’t capable of depth
b. the approval of ordinary viewers is nothing like critical praise
c. KES dumbs down her kdrama when she focuses on the daily concerns of ordinary viewers like…hmmm… the conscription and military service depicted in “Descendants of the Sun.”
d. KES isn’t maximizing her literary potential when she caters to these lowbrow people with their pedestrian opinions, and she eschews profundity and critical acclaim.
Oh vey!
So what if KES writes for the masses?
I’m not an elitist, Wenchanteur but it’s egregious to assume that the mass appeal of KES’ dramas precludes them from appealing to the intellectually superior as well. I’m here am I not?
lol.
I was invested in finishing “Goblin” because I wanted to see what KES had to say about life, afterlife, reincarnation, karma, punishment, and heaven. A lot of viewers didn’t watch the drama with an eye on those issues. But that’s their choice, not mine. A lot of viewers were also content with just the romance, the “chemistry,” the characters, and the angst. But that’s their concern, not mine.
No matter what these viewers were looking for in “Goblin,” let there be no misunderstanding here. Her philosophy on life and death was there in that drama for the viewers to contemplate on, if they choose to. If they missed it or skipped it, then that’s their problem, not KES.
For me, there are two levels of interpreting a kdrama written by a professional like KES. A viewer can watch it for the “feels” which the appearance of the characters and the makjang-ness of the plot can deliver. Or a viewer can watch it for “substance,” that is, KES’ mindset.
You also should have known this, wenchanteur, being a writer yourself. It’s impossible to separate a writer’s values, belief system, and convictions from her work. All these distinct characteristics constitute her “substance” which gives life to her art. These seep into her work whether she’s aware of it or not.
Now, it’s the viewers’ decision to focus on either “feels” or substance. It’s their decision to disregard one and not the other.
To me, this seoulbeats writer’s assumption that KES is a one-dimensional screenwriter simply because she caters to the masses totally misses the whole picture. It’s not KES who determines how her work is received. It depends on the audience to get what they can get out of the show.
2. Spotlight on the heroes
Now, aside from that myopic diss on KES catering to the great unwashed, this seoulbeats critic writes:
A reason for her success, proposed by some, are her male leads. Certainly in the industry, there is great emphasis placed on having attractive, popular male leads. But Kim Eun-sook’s male leads are pivotal to her dramas. This is displayed by her pursuit of Gong Yoo — the star of Coffee Prince — for five years until she was able to cast him in Goblin. Her characteristics skew very heavily in favour of men over women leading to dramas where the heroes are often glorified, to the point in Goblin where the male lead was a god. Kim Eun-sook with her “Prince Charming-like” male leads creates boyfriend fantasies strictly targeted at women. And looking at the statistics, it is clear that the majority of her viewers are women. The largest proportion of viewers for Descendants of the Sun and Goblin were women in their 40s accounting for 29 and 19.2 percent, respectively.
Cue in the reaction gif:
Let me deconstruct this in simple terms.
The complaint: KES spotlight on the male leads.
My response: So what? What’s wrong with that?
Nota bene: Most kdrama screenwriters’ understanding of male heroes have evolved from 10 years ago. So should critics.
The assumption that a “strong male lead shortchanges the female lead” is tiresome and sloppy.
Speaking for “Goblin,” the drama that was referenced here, the male lead was a god BUT he was entirely dependent on the woman. His whole existence had been spent waiting for this woman, his bride, to arrive and rescue him from his solitary life.
She first appeared to him as a teenager. Next, she grew up. Then, she died. And he had to wait for her again to reappear. The female lead was the one with a trajectory – she matured and developed – while he remained constant.
So…inquiring minds want to know: what good was it then to be a god when his whole reality was contingent on his human bride? What’s the point of being eternal when without her, he was merely marking time?
See that? That’s the philosophical conundrum.
If I watch and analyze the other kdramas she wrote after “Goblin,” (what were they? “Descendants of the Sun?” “Mr. Sunshine?”), I’m sure I can make the same case that the women are in fact the superior ones in these stories. Sure, the men in KES’ dramas may be admirable, eternal, noble, godly, supreme beings. But they’re next to nothing without their harassed, overworked, jealous, younger, poorer, and very much flawed female partners beside them.
And THAT’s the point of KES’ dramas. It appalls me that many of KES’ critics (and it’s not just this writer for seoulbeats) just don’t understand what they’re flogging to death.
I’ll explain: Her dramas tell us that women have the RIGHT to be loved and accepted for who they are — as ordinary and as imperfect a human being that they might be. That’s why the men in her dramas are the idealized ones and the women characters are “normal” ones.
Furthermore, just because KES creates a strong hero does NOT mean that she’s indifferent or insensitive to women’s needs. No.
In fact, when we look closely at KES supposed “glorification” of male heroes, it’s plain to see that the characteristics of her heroes actually REFLECT the ideals of her female audience. She’s writing to please her audience, remember? Women are getting the hero that they want. The hero is catering to women’s needs and fantasies.
That’s why I say, “Brava! More power to her!”
I’m personally tired of watching films written by men, directed by men, made by men, and geared for male viewers. I don’t know about others here, but I’m not interested in lead male characters who are into guns, wars, violence, bloodshed, and women running around with their ta-tas hanging out. KES’ heroes aren’t like that. If ever they have to fight, (eyeing Song JoonKi’s character in “Descendants of the Sun”), it’s for a worthy cause.
So please don’t give me this specious argument about KES’ male lead being superior to the female lead again. It’s rubbish.
3. Cinderella Syndrome
Also, I question this writer’s take on the Cinderella trope in KES’ dramas. To be fair, this Cinderella trope is found in many other kdramas written by other screenwriters.
Her dramas are often described as Cinderella stories, and in an interview she said that “there is always a Cinderella in my work. Cinderella is the most entertaining story. [I know this because] my non-Cinderella plots had low viewership rates.” Her female leads are often much poorer than the male lead and, due to this, they tend to be lacking in agency and independence. This of course is a source of controversy particularly in the case of Goblin with the fact that the female lead of tends to be unable to escape the Cinderella stereotype particularly due to her male partner being such an almighty. But the Cinderella story remains effective since it is well received by female viewers because viewers are generally drawn to escapism in times of social and economic woes.
Although some might say it is another unrealistic story, a drama is a drama. I just want to make people enjoy the fantasy.
This creation of a fantasy, as stated by Kim Eun-sook in an interview, extends to other parts of her dramas in particular — the display of wealth through characters and settings. The majority of her dramas are preoccupied with the lives of the rich and wealthy. In Heirs, we see the lives of wealthy teenagers; in City Hall, we see the lives of the political elite; and of course the very wealthy male leads in the majority of her dramas. In this, she has been a pioneer, setting a trend for having foreign locations being featured in dramas with her Lovers trilogy. All of this provides escapism for the viewer drawing them into a world that very few live.
The Cinderella trope is a misleading cliché about KES’ drama.
I know that “Heirs” and “Goblin” DID feature rich heroes and poor heroines. Did the lead characters in her later kdramas, “Descendants of the Sun” and “Mr. Sunshine” also have a disparate financial status?
I don’t know and I don’t really care. 😉
You see, that’s NOT the point of these kdramas. It’s not about the poorer female lead character lacking “agency and independence.” It’s not always about a dominant man lording it over the poor little woman. I do wish critics would stop viewing everything from the perspective of gender inequality.
To me, it’s about the heroine realizing that she’s worth it.
In many kdramas, the story begins with the heroine being constrained by circumstances beyond her control, like Cinderella. But as the story progresses, she discovers that her resourcefulness, ingenuity and spunk can save her. She’s not helpless. When she’s knocked down and killed by a truck of doom (cough. cough. “Goblin”), she resurrects on her own merits.
The heroine in KES’ dramas always realizes in the end that she’s worth the trouble, angst, sacrifice, and even the hero’s noble idiocy. She’s no one’s victim and she works to earn her happy-ever-after. She deserves her happiness wherever that may be.
So no, I wouldn’t put down the works of KES — and, for that matter, most of her contemporary screenwriters — as mere “escapism.” On the contrary, I’d say that a well-written story is actually empowering to female viewers. It reinforces the idea that a woman’s experience and journey from poor Cinderella to triumphant Princess Goblin’s Bride are compelling and relevant.
Female lives matter.
4. Cheesy dialogues
OMG! A kdrama writer is writing cheesy lines! Call the police!
It is also notable that her writing is punctuated by wit and fast flying talk and she is famous in the industry for producing quick scripts under pressure and giving them to actors with only a short window before shooting. Moreover, she is notorious for her cheesiness, something that she embraces as her specialty. It does sometimes make for uncomfortable viewing and there are many stories of embarrassed actors.
One interesting story comes from Lovers in Paris, her 2004 drama. Park Shin-yang shared his experience with the famous line that hit South Korea in 2004, “Let’s go, baby”. In an English speaking setting, calling a loved one “baby” is a very common thing to do. But in Korea, it was a fresh new term. It was unthinkable. The actor said,
Honestly, the first time I read that line, I was like, “What? What in the world is this?” I really thought it was a joke at first… I was quite embarrassed.
But the cheesy nature of her writing has not stopped her from getting the biggest actors and stars like Lee Min-ho, Song Jong-ki, Gong Yoo and Lee Byung-hyun in her casts. Furthermore, her shows often become pop culture sensations where catchphrases and memorable scenes are parroted and parodied endlessly.
Seriously, cheesy dialogue in kdramas is no big deal.
And if Shakespeare knew how many of his lines, like “To be or not to be,” “Et tu, Brute?” and “O Romeo, Romeo, wherefore art thou Romeo?” have been “parroted and parodied” for CENTURIES after he died them, he would have turned in his grave. lol.
KES is in good company.
5. Commercial success
I, for one, am glad that KES is not a starving artist. lol.
Over the years, she has created a distinct brand for herself in a competitive industry, making dramas that are distinctly hers. You know when you are watching her dramas and you know that when her new drama comes out, everyone will be talking about it, whether they like it or not. In one interview, she summed up her philosophy quite nicely. “Drama is not an art but an hour long entertainment. I don’t believe I should try to do art with other people’s money.” This philosophy is what has brought her the success she has today.
I know these two things to be true:
One, a screenwriter who can’t CONNECT with the audience has no NO BUSINESS writing a drama for the television and wasting everybody’s time and money.
If KES can’t reach her intended audience, then what the heck is she doing writing for television? Remember: “The medium is the message.”
KES uses television because she wants to reach a wider audience for her drama. If ALL she aspires for is this “depth or critical praise” then she can simply write an esoteric play for private viewing, stage it in her backyard with relatively unknown actors, and invite critics to judge it. There! Mission accomplished. She doesn’t need to show her dramas on SBS (“Heirs”), KBS (“Descendants of the Sun”) and tvN (“Goblin” and “Mr Sunshine”).
The fact that she writes for television means she wants public consumption. Duh.
Two, kdramas are expensive to produce. How much was the production cost of her “Mr. Sunshine”? 30 billion won according this article: Kdramas budget
Whether a screenwriter acknowledges it or not, her finished product is an economic venture. KES has a duty to her producers, backers, underwriters, and investors, to come up with a drama that’s a commercial success.
Now, if a screenwriter insists on creating art simply for art’s sake, then she can put in her own money and produce her own show. No one’s stopping her from investing in her work. But as long as she’s using other people’s money to televise a show, as crass as this may sound, then she has a responsibility DUTY to ensure that her drama isn’t a flop.
*******************
That’s why I say let’s hold off any judgment until the actual drama is out. And let’s stop circulating this article, please. It’s poisoning the well.
Thanks for this @pkml3. I’ve become pretty sporadic on the blogs and didn’t see the article, nor, I confess, do I feel a need to read it in detail, even now.
From a simple viewer’s point of view, I’ve never judged a show without watching it first, and I’ve also never judged it by its writer. The reason, very simply, is that people change and experiment and have good days and bad days. Just because there were works that I think were not great, does not mean that every work by the same writer will be bad. And, how unfair to be judged when one’s work was not even watched, heard and experienced yet.
I place myself in the writer’s shoes. Surely I am not out to write something vain or bad on purpose, but will do my best and wish to touch many hearts with each new work. I would hope that ‘my audience’ does not come prejudging my work with prejudiced minds, determined to not give me a chance to even show what’s new.
“For Kim Eun-sook, it is about the viewers and their feelings and opinions rather than depth or critical praise.”
So what? Isn’t that how it should be? If a writer writes a drama that critics love but not viewers many see, does that serve the purpose? Who decides that depth of critical praise should be the objective?
I believe when we are using a mass medium, we need to write for our audience. As someone whose chosen profession is communications and media, I face this same choice many times, though of course not at the scale at which KES must face. I can write a news article using metaphors and the kind of English sentences I would like to write, and some pseudo-intellectual reader may write back to me saying how much they enjoyed it (no guarantee though). But how many masses who read it will understand? And if the article in not popular enough in terms of page view statistics, how will I justify the return on investment to my stakeholders in our next meeting?
We choose what we do because it fires our passion. When I’m writing, I’m not writing for myself or a few so-called intellectual critics, I’m writing as a means to an end. I’m writing to convey my ideas and influence people’s minds towards some larger vision. The more people understand my vision, the more people I can reach. Not only does it put the bread on my table (which one can’t ignore as I refuse to be a penniless bitch!), but it also gives me a sense of purpose. Isn’t that a choice every artist, writer, film maker or author has to make?
Quoting @packmule3” here:
“Don’t you see the blatant snobbery here? Those two paragraphs imply the following:
a. ordinary viewers aren’t capable of depth
b. the approval of ordinary viewers is nothing like critical praise”
Exactly my point. It’s like if I love Murakami, I’m intellectual. However, if I’m reading Mills and Boons, I’m a brainless bimbo. Says who? It’s MY choice. I enjoyed Descendants of the Sun very much, as well as Goblin. They may have been illogical and melodramatic in parts, but only I have the right to choose what I want to see as a viewer. Who makes the judgement that if I enjoyed those, I’m a brainless bimbo? Or for that matter, if I enjoy eye candy, I’m not intellectual enough? I may choose to balance deep dramas which make me think with some light fluffy ones where I don’t need to analyze things as deeply (though my brain will keep ticking away somewhere noting things, I may choose to give it a rest :P). Again, it’s my choice.
I think this is a wonderful post on International Women’s Day! This year’s theme is #EachForEqual – it’s about promoting equality not just in terms of gender but across regions, cultures, views, opinions, and I feel, dramas too.
Happy Women’s day to everyone out there (whatever gender you may choose to identify with)!
Let us come together to accept everyone’s different viewpoints without judging anyone on their choices, let us be open and encourage debates and dialogues, because we are all equal in our love for Kdramas on this blog 🙂 🙂
I guess success brings a lot of critics.
I like KES dramas :
1) The backdrop is different in every drama.
2) She pays attention to all her characters and not only the ML and the FL.
3) She balances very well the humor and the sadness.
4) Bromance or sisterhood. The unlikely trio in Mr Sunshine was really great to watch.
5) She knows how to surround herself with professional PD, actors, etc.
6) Her dramas have good OST.
I don’t care the use of usual tropes in a Kdrama ( I mean it’s why I watched Kdrama too) but the way they are used can make a good or a bad drama.
Okay well I’ll play devil’s advocate along with Wenchanteur. I too disliked the same shows as her/him, and I gave all of them a good run. I found them boring and unlike the majority of these shows’ audiences, I didn’t feel anything at all for the characters (but I did for City Hall (loved it)). I think when our opinion is so at odds with the mainstream we start wondering why. I definitely don’t get snobby – I am an English literature postgraduate who enjoyed Boys Over Flowers lol! I always put it down to the pacing, and wonder if most viewers who enjoyed those shows are also soap opera or daily drama fans who don’t mind such a slow pace? But let me just say that there are cinematographic masterpieces that literary people love that I also find boring. That goes for novels too.
I agree with pkm3 that the article writer makes a lot of explicit and implicit assumptions about the audience that are prejudicial. It’s better to stay away from critiquing the audience and just critique the show. Even though I just don’t get why these shows became hits – are you all nuts?? ;)) lol.
Also, I don’t fault the writer for writing what people want to watch. I do fault the writer of W though. She did a very arrogant interview where she said she didn’t care about her endings. For a thriller type mystery like W that’s just garbage. That’s why I didn’t watch Alhambra. Some writers deserve a loyal following, others do not, and by this I mean there should be a certain measure of professionalism and responsibility to the audience.
This made my day, packmule3. Thank you.
Thank you, PM3, for your eloquent and logical writing.
I always get annoyed at the assumption that critical and popular success are mutually exclusive.
I am curious if the writer if the article you quoted has an example of an intellectual kdrama writer who has not committed the terrible sins KES has been accused of. Until such impeccable writer is proclaimed, I will remain a shallow ahjumma who enjoys shallow dramas written by shallow writers.
Hello Packmule!
I don’t know if my opinion deserved to be taken back. It’s a humorous pamphlet like I sometimes do when I don’t like something. And as I take a step back from it, that’s why I make it funny. The anecdote about my friend who saw the first episode of DOTS is true though! But honestly, I don’t think he likes kdramas in general.
I’ve often wondered about the reasons for KES’ success, regarding her recent dramas. There’s bound to be a talent for appealing to the widest possible audience. If I were a professional screenwriter in South Korea, I would study this closely to be so successful. But I’m afraid in this case my approach would be insincere.
Regarding your article, I can only comment on parts 1 and 4.
Indeed, I did not find any interest in what the author of the article on male roles says, and I did not remember it.
I just have a short opinion on that. Most writers are women. Often in dramas, women suffer a lot, while men are cold or are jerks. Like in Memories of Alhambra, for example, where the heroine loves the hero, while he neglects her. This doesn’t surprise me, because I observed it the other way around when I wrote my screenplay. I tend to make the male character suffer in the same way. This is due to personal experience: we have all found ourselves in a difficult love situation, even one-sided. In this case, it’s easier to express what we felt on our own, while the character of the other sex remains a mystery. Perceived as insensitive and heartbreaker. In the drama “Love Story in Harvard”, the writer is a man (assisted by a woman). The male lead is having a hard time! It smells like lived experience.
What interests me is KES’ approach to successful dramas. Reaching the audience first and foremost.
“If the viewers can’t accept it then it isn’t a good script. Dramas should be pleasing to their viewers.”
I don’t have a problem with that.
That being said, some scenarios will always be reserved for a more limited segment of the population.
This is the case with Song Jae-jung’s scenarios. Not out of elitism, but because she’s doing real sci-fi.
It is a somewhat suicidal approach, which condemns her to a lack of success compared to KES. But if she does, I guess she wants to be sincere and tell the stories she really loves.
She produces a layer of kdrama that will appeal to regular drama audiences, but many of them will be disappointed because they’re hermetic to the SF aspect.
On the other hand, SF fans who might appreciate her work don’t watch kdramas. They might also not appreciate the kdrama layer.
However, she does everything possible to make her dramas accessible to as many people as possible.
If you really want to see a pure SF story that is not trying to please everyone, you can see the movie “Primer”.
Now, that loving the two writers is incompatible is derision. You only have to look at a few random ratings to see that a lot of spectators do it. It’s mostly for me that it’s impossible.
“For Kim Eun-sook, it is about the viewers and their feelings and opinions rather that depth or critical praise.”
That’s where the problem arises.
There is no choice to be made between “pleasing the audience” and “depth”.
And if she bothered, she could do both at the same time. Other writers do it.
As far as “critical praise” is concerned, your article sums it up well. Like you, I don’t see any point in producing a snobbish screenplay that appeals to critics.
The drama “secret garden” is cited as the first drama she wrote with this philosophy.
Still… it’s still a good drama. So there was a time when she managed to combine her new philosophy with a certain quality.
The drama is funny because the humour is based on the comic of the situation and the psychology of the characters. A fairly natural form of humour.
My favourite example of a drama that is both mainstream and finely written (which I define as having depth in the writing) is “Master Sun”. The first 20 minutes of the drama. The Hong sisters have the same quality at the beginning of the drama “Greatest Love”, and probably in others. Globally, they are scriptwriters who manage to combine quality, depth, rhythm and progression of the story.
For KES, this problem becomes real afterwards.
Maybe her stories have a message? All right, then. Maybe I could have enjoyed it if the drama had been good enough to hang on to. That’s sad for me. Besides, it’s sad for me in general. As long as I have to do it, I’d rather love a drama than reject it.
But as you might have guessed, I focus more on the narrative, and everything that makes a drama exciting from start to finish.
I blame the writer for not being sincere and inspiring about the story’s unfolding. Exactly the same artificial way blockbuster writers in Hollywood proceed.
That’s something I feel very strongly about. It’s as if the drama becomes “hollow”.
For Goblin, when comedy loses its fine and natural, deeply funny side. It is replaced by forced situations that come out of nowhere, without any basis. Characters who overact, who scream, too. Does the word “Cheesy” sum this up?
Or in the case of DOTS, a very shaky scenario, full of unrealistic details and a static sprinkled web of procedural events. As if nothing is important to make it credible at all.
For Goblin, the absence of plots, and a static situation, barely filled this time. No rhythm and a snail’s pace. How can I not sink into total boredom with all this?
So I’ve lost confidence in this writer, and I fear wasting my time watching the dramas she wrote afterwards. It would be better to spend this time watching “Jewel in the palace”, one of the great classics that is still on my watchlist.
The two main qualities I expect from a drama are: to be addictive, not to be boring. So it’s a story that’s full of twists and turns in its progression. A progression that goes from A, B, C… to Y, Z. Not a motionless frame on which are taped events of short duration. Not being boring can also apply to slower dramas, when the scenes are so rich and authentic that they are exciting.
Comes immediately afterwards, being authentic, and providing strong emotions. Give enough credibility to take the story seriously, and thus really feel the emotions. It also requires a delicate acting style. The exaggerated and artificial reactions quickly get me out of a story.
Then comes logic, realism. Normally I give it more importance in western content. But in a kdrama, I’ve gotten used to accepting a few flaws at this level.
My answer here is really very long. But to express my sincerity in a peaceful way, I can’t help but explain my nuanced feelings in depth. And also: I’m a king of cobblestones 😉
As you mention the role of bloggers: One thing I particularly like about your blog is that it focuses on the analysis of the script, rather than the opinion. It’s a gold mine. I would have liked to have discovered it before writing my script, because some writing tricks are unknown to me, I don’t always pay attention to all the details.
However, on other blogs, there is mainly an opinion or a notation on dramas. We can therefore say that these bloggers have an influential role.
When I started looking at kdramas, around 2012, I sometimes went to this kind of blog. I was inevitably very disappointed because it wasted my time. One drama is rated well for the wrong reasons, while the quality of another is not detected by people who position themselves as experts.
If my comment sounded like I was influencing the other way around, I apologize for that. If I were to play that role, I would start a blog. But I have no interest in that, and I prefer to write a story.
So, there’s that “Lemming” side you’re talking about.
That’s not what bothers me the most. I don’t question the sincerity of the audience, even on dramas that I judge to be of poor quality, or for which there has been excessive publicity.
I blame them more for their blindness. As I said humorously : that comes down to 10/10/10/10.
Even on my favorite piece (“W”), I can criticize and say that choosing a syrupy romantic rock song for some kissing scenes is a bad choice. Or that, despite being among my favorite screenwriters, “Vagabond” screenwriters are not as good as usual, especially on the credibility of some action scenes.
When I see this excess of “Hype”, it sometimes annoys me. I shouldn’t because after all, it’s hardly new, but I’m human too. That explains my reactions in the diametrically opposite direction.
“So what if KES writes for the masses?
I’m not an elitist, Wenchanteur but it’s egregious to assume that the mass appeal of KES’ dramas precludes them from appealing to the intellectually superior as well. I’m here am I not? ”
I forgot this, and I’m not sure I answered it in my previous comment.
It’s an important question!
Already, intellectual superiority is not at the heart of the subject, even if sometimes some works require using the brain a little more than usual.
It’s about artistic sensitivity and the evolution of tastes. I know the elitism about the level of study, it’s obvious. I think that can also apply to the arts. But not an intellectual elitism.
When I was a child, I remember enjoying a very famous film “Indiana Jones, the Last Crusade”. I saw it again a few years ago, and I found it catastrophic, completely “hollow”.
It’s just that in the meantime (30 years, hum hum), my tastes had evolved greatly. Exactly in the same way that an oenologist learns to better discern and appreciate good wines.
This evolution of taste is an important step. For some people, it is inevitable, at a greater or lesser speed. It depends on curiosity, and the dissatisfaction to stagnate. When one no longer feels pleasure in front of a type of work whose codes one knows, it is natural to progress towards something else. Something finer, more accomplished, more artistic, which satisfies the need for artistic sensitivity. Perception becomes sharper, and the pleasure that goes with it.
The process is the same with music and other art forms. The same goes for cooking, where the difference is made between the food of a fast food restaurant and that of a good restaurant.
If that’s elitist, I’m willing to be elitist!
But I don’t forget where I came from. Originally, I wasn’t much better dressed than anyone else, except in terms of music because of a favourable family environment. Wisdom would dictate that one should accept the artistic choices of others, knowing this. Still, I wish them to evolve. In fact, I should wish it to myself first of all.
I would like popular works to have a certain appeal, a certain authenticity. Unfortunately, this is less and less the case. It’s all about production, reasoned choices, artifice.
Is it moral, for an author, to comfort the greatest number in productions without inspiration? After all, the author only offers what people ask for.
I thought I had become a realist and pragmatic person, but I see that I still have a certain idealistic background. I would prefer a world in which the level of artistic sensitivity goes up, not down.
My post was a preemptive strike. 🙂 It was meant to set the tone of this blog. It’s one of those “housekeeping” posts I occasionally write when I foresee a topic to be contentious.
I’m hardly a KES apologist. I’ve watched 1 out of her 4 latest dramas… or if you want to include her dramas for the last 11 years, starting with this infamous “City Hall” (2009) of hers, I’ve seen only 1 1/2 of 7 dramas, “Goblin” and half of “Secret Garden”. But I’m willing to give her a break. As you said, it’s unfair (and it smacks of condescension) to paint her in broad strokes as an evil hack/commercial writer simply because her writing style, subject matter and philosophy don’t agree with you, personally.
I’m willing to give her a try… and THEN I’ll
panbitch about her. 🙂Shhhhhh, Phoenix!!
As one of the denizens of Shallow Island, you cannot let other people know that you’ve brain matter. lol. Happy International Women’s Day to you, too.
I gather that she’s a hit-or-miss with viewers.
But I also believe that our expectations can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. If we anticipate KES to write cloying romance, then we’re already predisposed to nitpick her work. There must be balance between positive and negative expectations. I’m not going to pre-judge her work before even seeing it. Sure, I’ll joke about Lee Minho because it’s fun to provoke his (lurking) fangirls (insert my evil laughter here) but you can expect me to give this drama a fair shake when it comes to my reviews.
I would have ignored that article if it wasn’t for that dig at the hoi polloi. “For Kim Eun-sook, it is about the viewers and their feelings and opinions rather that depth or critical praise.”
That was foul.
I’m surprised no one called the writer on that.
And you’re right. It would have been a far more convincing argument to actually critique the shows individually than to make a blanket statement about the writer by cobbling her past interviews.
Well, you know what they say, “No prophet is accepted in his country.” Even Shakespeare was accused of bad writing — bawdry humor and all — for the masses. 🙂
@packmule3 Thank you 😊 I know I have said this multiple times before – how much I enjoy the discussions we have on this blog 🙌 This is the only blog I feel like I want to contribute to as you make all of us feel welcome (minus rabid fangirls of course😛)
In the spirit of universal equality of bitches, we do have the bridge between the two islands so that we (@agdr03, @Snow Flower and other denizens of Shallow Island) can walk over to Cynical Island too and bitch about the drama, if we choose to. Right now we don’t really know which way the drama will go and I prefer to keep all avenues open 😛 We will, of course, return and resume our shallowness on Shallow Island to admire His Hotness’ eyes, lips etc.as and when desired 😜😜
In the spirit of universal equality of bitches, we do have the bridge between the two islands so that we (@agdr03, @Snow Flower and other denizens of Shallow Island) can walk over to Cynical Island too and bitch about the drama, if we choose to. Right now we don’t really know which way the drama will go and I prefer to keep all avenues open 😛 We will, of course, return and resume our shallowness on Shallow Island to admire His Hotness’ eyes, lips etc.as and when desired 😜😜
Hear! Hear! Couldn’t have said it any better @Phoenix 🙌🏻☺️ I’m excited for the drama all the more because we’re here on this particular blog. It’s cool. 😎
😂. I can’t say I am qualified to offer an educated opinion about her works. I finished none of her dramas. The only one I even tried to soldier (pun intended) through was DOTS (I think I got to ep7 and bailed?). And that I started because of the much hyped real life fairy tale marriage of the OTP and I thought I would try to guess which episode they “fell in love for real”. That and the fact that I was partly reliving my youth and picturing Maverick Cruise and Goose in place of JoongKi and his wingman (wait…that was Iceman?). Slow mo beach volleyball with tops off didn’t make the cut 😤. Neither did JoongKi do the fist punch astride a motorbike whilst rocking “highway to the danger zone”. And the biggest disappointment for me? No “you lost that lovin’ feeling” off key. 🤪. Sigh…good times. Never gets old.
@nrllee we are always betraying our ages! I still like Tom Cruise, despite the scientology, scandals, mental health denial,etc. Everyone who has ever worked with him praises him to the skies, and I just find him personally likeable. He’s a good actor too, shares that dynamo energy with Al Pacino.
I like Lee Min Ho if he’s got the right haircut. And he can be really funny. He’s got great comedic timing. So despite my bewilderment at the popularity of this writer’s work the last few years, I will give the show a few episodes’ chance to bore me or intrigue me. I can almost guarantee I’ll be bored though.
That’s why we’re on Cynical Island and the rest are on Shallow Island. We know how to resist ~ the ~ dark ~ side.
For one, I’m dying to see how KES incorporates fan service in the opening scene of LMH. Wasn’t he surfing in “Heirs”? So it must be the horseback riding in “Eternal Monarch.” 🤣
@pkm3, ha, my daughter and I agreed that the best part of Heirs was the beginning in the US; it set us up for a completely different show! I also liked the beginning of City Hunter when he’s in the jungle running from bandits.
I rather wish Korean drama could pull itself away from the suits and uniforms and overly manicured hair.
@Barbrey I agree about Tom Cruise. That megawatt smile. 🙂.
@packmule3 Yes to the first episode of Eternal Monarch (May his name endure forever). KES likes to wow the crowd doesn’t she? So it should be pretty “amazeballs”. My daughter was chuffed to learn a few years ago that “amazeballs” was officially added to the Oxford dictionaries Online. To which the little urchin asked in jest, “Does that mean I can use it in my English essay? That would be amazeballs!” I shook my sage head, “Somehow I don’t think Mr Henry would approve.” 🤣
I do so enjoy your sermons!
🙂 Better my sermons than Fire and Brimstone op-ed from that critic, eh? “KES is going to artistic hell for writing for the masses!!! Burn her at the stake, she’s a hack!! Her kdrama is doomed, I tell you, doooooooomed!”
@packmule3: 😀 🙂
Her dramas condemn us all…
It’s the punishment! …
Do penance! …
The end of time has come! …
https://orbis-1278.kxcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Philippulus.jpg
We are doooomed tooooo !
It’s the end of the wooooorld !!!
To be honest, I really do not understand why this writer elicits such negative opinions from some people. I mean, there are plenty of other writers who use tropes, cheesy dialog, or what have you. They don’t seem to cause such intense reactions.
I mean why would a statement such as “I write with the viewers in mind” be such a bad thing? Isn’t keeping her viewers in mind a major part of any drama writer’s job? I’d rather have a screenwriter who cares about me than one who doesn’t. The subtext for this article (and maybe some of the negative views of people) seems to be that KES is actively restraining herself or consciously changing her writing style to appeal to the masses. In essence. compromising her artistic integrity for monetary gain. I disagree on that viewpoint. I believe she has a certain style that clicks with a lot of viewers. Her older dramas like Lovers In Paris, or even to a certain extent, Lovers, have the hallmarks of snappy dialog between the main leads that she is known for in the later post City Hall dramas that the article talks about where she supposedly changed her style to be more commercially viable. The thing is she’s had hits from the very beginning of her career starting with groundbreaking Lovers In Paris in 2004, and to me the formula she is using hasn’t changed.
But even if she did change her writing style, then so what? Writers do evolve over time. I mean you don’t hear people critizing Song Jae Jung for not writing comedies anymore. From her recent works, you’d never guess that she’s the same writer of the hit sitcom High Kick. Talk about a different style.
It feels more like professional jealousy except those who are criticizing are viewers rather than fellow drama writers. I thank you, @pm3 for this post that takes on some of the blanket statements to give a thoughtful response.
I haven’t seen all of this writer’s works because I tend to watch only dramas whose plotlines interest me. That said, I also will check out a drama if I really like the actors, but if the storyline gets boring to me I will drop it. I have enjoyed most of the KES dramas I have seen. Were they perfect? No, but I did enjoy them overall. I’ve seen Secret Garden, Lovers, Descendants Of The Sun, and Heirs. I didn’t like A Gentleman’s Dignity. I haven’t watched Goblin or Mr. Sunshine as those plots didn’t interest me, and I haven’t seen any of her other works. I have heard that City Hall is the drama to watch for people who don’t like KES dramas.
I wish people wouldn’t just jump to preconceived notions and let the drama speak for itself. If the plot sounds interesting, if the cast intrigues you, give it a chance instead of tearing it down. I try to do that myself as I can be just as guilty of preconceived notions. I have not been a fan of Park Ji Eun in the past, but I saw the trailer for CLOY and decided to give it a try because it looked cute and I like the lead actors. And I enjoyed it for the most part (not going to talk about the ending). It’s the first drama by that writer that I haven’t dropped after 1-2 episodes.
I just common kdrama viewers. I watch lovers in paris.. but i skip her drama after that, cant finish “on air” never hear about city hall. 🤣
I watch heirs but its not worthy to rewatch bcs the story🤧 the worst is dots🤣
I feel like “come back mister” should be the one that worth the hype.. it was really funny and sad 😭
this two drama airing at same time.
but i honestly think kim eun sook really good making goblin and mr sunshine, it was very different from her past project 🤣 i feel somehow it was meaningful project from her..
Or her writing team getting better.. i heard she has second writer.. ( that why i love crash landing on you writer than KES, bcs park ji eun nim working alone and make it buzz worthy, while KES has second writer. Its mean someone help her)
I dont care about male lead casting or main lead casting.. bcs if you want to watch meaningful drama that worth to oscar level..
Its mean writer taking high risk the drama lose commercials deal, sponsor, and viewers🤣
While when they produce drama they need alot of sponsor, main actor that attracts commercials deal and has alot of fans, not only in SK… but worldwide..
That why i sometimes dislike criticism about cast. Especially we will see it soon 🤣
Sometimes second couple fans or supporting cast fans…
will start to underestimate main couple.. its either bcs they think main couple story boring, or they think one of main couple cant act in their opinion..
Well the worst.. is.. they think supporting cast is the one who carry the drama..
They forget… main couple is the one who attract sponsor and mostly viewers.. and fans who will buy stuff from the drama..
Oh im sorry ive been so fuckin annoying lately with some of this ppl. 🤣
I’m *sure* she has an assistant writer. If the drama is bad, KES can blame the assistant. If the drama is good, her critics can praise the assistant. 😂 The assistant or ghost writer is very convenient excuse to have around.
Seriously though, many US judges delegate the task of writing judicial opinions to their law clerks. The law clerk researches pertinent case laws then drafts the opinion. After submission of the draft, the judge edits it extensively, adding her own opinions and subtracting other details.
I assume that *if* KES had an assistant, her task would be to research then outline a scene or write a side story/vignette, which could be inserted as a filler or bridge or rewrite. But it would be KES’ task to edit and approve the addition to reflect her style, match her purposes, and flow with her story.
Lol. We watched “Because it’s my first life,” didn’t we? The heroine was the one in charge of the product placement scenes. 😂😂
Oh! This is Lee Minho’s second kdrama with KES. And this is Kim Go Eun’s second as well. 😂
@Lovebangwon, don’t apologise for your post. I liked it, especially your opinion on criticism of cast and why certain people would be hired.
🙂 Fern, @lovebangwon lurks here. She and I go a long way back, like @agdr03. We were avid soompi commenters back then. lovebangwon was actually my first follower on this blog. I told her and mslee1107 (who was my second follower) that I was starting one.
She isn’t shy at all about stating her opinions.
Good woman!
I like her fresh point of view.
KES wrote On Air?!! Omo! That is one of my favorite drama! I watched it because of my favorite actors and actress and I like the story too cause it’s finance related. So now, I have watched two of her works? hehehe…I am never one who pays attention to writers when picking up kdrama. Oh well kekeke.
I am having so much fun doing some back-reading of Monarch-related posts in preparation for the launching. I am laughing so hard my stomach hurts. 🙂
Anyway, what you said about her writings with regard to female role is true. I can see that she did the same with Mr. Sunshine. Both female leads, Go Ae Shin and Kudo Hina were strong characters. The three males are just there to support Ae Shin and ensure she achieved what she was meant to achieve.
Ok, back to reading 🙂 ~~
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