I’m going through some questions on the blog, and posting my answers.
From newbie poster Jane M:
This is my first time posting here so I want to tell you how much I enjoy eavesdropping on your conversations and how happy I was to find a group of people talking about this drama other that saying how bad the ratings are etc etc. It does seem this writer expects a certain amount of effort from the viewer to fully enjoy the story.
My enjoyment of a kdrama isn’t dependent on polls and plebeian opinions. I’m too old and too wise to care.
I stated my initial interest in watching this kdrama with my friends here:
Link: Should we watch this, Bitches?
But I was “forced” to defend the writer KES against criticisms EVEN before her show started. That’s the reason I took on this kdrama and started reviewing.
Link: Give the show a chance before criticizing it
In a nutshell, I was pissed off by an article that WEnchanteur posted here. I thought the writer of that article was virtue-signaling and pontificating on what he/she deemed a “worthy” kdrama. The article was condescending and elitist. And pure horse manure.
I alone can determine for myself whether KES’ drama was worth my time or not. Thank you. If people don’t get her, that’s their problem. Not mine.
One thing has been bothering me for a long time, though, and I haven’t seen it discussed anywhere else. How can Lee Gon only be the 3rd king of the Kingdom of Korea? Do their kings have really long lifespans?
No. Lee Gon came from a long line of kings.
Remember the flute that they’re arguing about is the Manpasikjeok. According to their legends it came from a king during the Silla era.
Then, in Episode 2, 50:00, he explained how the history of the Corea and Korea diverged in 1645 when the Crown Prince Sohyeon was murdered by his own father, King Injo.
TE: What did you do in the library?
LG: I read about your world’s history. I wanted to know how different it is from my world’s.
TE: So how is it different?
LG: The history of this country separated since Prince Sohyeon. In your world, he passed away early, while in my world, he remained in history as King Yeongjong. He stopped the Qing invasion. The history of the two worlds started to go separate ways since, and ended up here now. It seems that in your world the country has quickly grown through intensive industrialization since the war and division. I was impressed.
Later, Lee Gon went to the museum to see the “Exhibition from King Taejo to the last King Sunjong.”
He stood in front of the portrait of the last King. See his reflection on the glass?
To me, he was contemplating on the fate of the last King Sunjong and wondered about HIS own place in the history of his Kingdom. According to King Sunjong’s museum plaque, “as the Joseon dynasty was invaded by Japan in 1910, he was forced to issue a proclamation yielding up both his throne and his country.”
To me, that’s the significance of his visit to the museum. He was the current king of a parallel universe looking at a deposed king. King Sunjong’s removal was a cautionary tale for him. If Fate didn’t have a hand in his own history, AND if he didn’t do a good job of defending his nation from his enemies, he could end up like King Sunjong.
But I’m sure many viewers thought that that scene was a waste of time. 🙂
Then in Episode 3, at 36:14, that’s when Lee Gon mentioned his grandfather. I guess that stuck in viewers’ heads.
TE: You said it’s a parallel universe. But why is the capital Busan?
LG: It’s the cultural capital. The central government is in Seoul, the political capital. Pyongyang is the economic capital. You call it South and North Korea, but we call it the southern and northern region. And the King and Queen stay in the main palace in Busan. In case you’re curious.
TE: That’s nonsense. Why would the King stay in Busan and not Seoul? I’m not curious.
She was referring to LG’s joke that she’d be interested where they would be staying if they were married as King and Queen of the Kingdom of Corea.
LG: Since 1952, we’ve had a political conflict with Japan. We’re always at the brink of war. So my grandfather, King Haejong, announced a constitutional monarchy in 1945, leaving the parliament in Seoul and moving the palace to Busan. It was to show the royal court’s pledge to stand at the front to face our enemies first. That’s why the statue of Adimral Yi Sunsin is in Busan. The statue shows that no one can cross our Kingdom’s seas and invade our Kingdom.
Questions about Yoyo Girl.
I already wrote about Lee Gon’s acceptance of her existence here. I said Lee Gon didn’t believe in superstitions but now he did. He assumed that the Yoyo Girl was trying to warn him about something.
Link. Is the lightning good or bad?
And I think that’s what he confirmed when he checked the travel log of his deceased uncle Prince Buyeong. He realized that the only place he visited in Busan was “The slums, Eosu Bookstore.”
LG: What could this mean? This move Uncle Buyeong made…
Mr. Seok: I’ll look into it immediately.
LG: (suddenly standing up) “The footsteps you take by risking your whole life is what’s fate.” He knew I’d check the daily log.
Now, there are two interpretations when he said, “He knew I’d check the daily log.” He could be referring to his uncle Buyeon, that is his uncle Buyeon would know that he’d check the daily log.
But the second interpretation here is he figured out what that Yoyo Kid (aka Fate) was looking at the camera. Yoyo Kid knew that LG was going to check the daily logs. And that was why the Yoyo kid looked at the camera and why the lightning and thunder struck at the same time.
At this moment, Lee Gon realized what WE’ve already realized here on this blog. Yoyo kid was warning him. (That’s why I keep on saying that we’re ahead of Lee Gon and the script…actually WAYYYY ahead of the script. We can take our time and wait for the story to unfold because we’ve covered the possibilities.)
I also explained Yoyo Girl’s motivation here.
Link: King Arthur and the Yoyo Girl
I said that, based on her fascination with King Arthur’s legend, she was going to be sympathetic to the Lee Gon and not Lee Lim.
When she told Lee Lim, “It seems that the things in your world keep changing,” she was commenting on Lee Lim’s plan to replace and hide his loyalist bookstore owner with his Korean driver.
As for TaeEul’s conversation with Yoyo Girl:
TE: What are you doing here? Get out of here!
Yoyo: I warned people about the danger and beat the enemy.
Here, the Yoyo Girl was simply answering TaeEul’s question, “What are you doing here?” The Yoyo Girl answered that she was there in the warehouse with TaeEul, because her job was to warn people about danger and to help her beat the enemy.
I suppose the “warning” Yoyo Girl was referring to here is the “premonition” that people get when something bad is about to happen. A premonition, intuition, or a foreboding feeling is how people are guided by fate to do or avoid something for their own survival.
Yoyo Girl is FATE personified. She’s not a time traveler in the sense that time has control over her. Fate is BEYOND time. She can “bend” time to suit her needs. And she on TE and LG’s side in their conflict with Lee Lim. She’s warning TE of danger just like she warned LG of her danger through the laptop.
TE: What did you say? By the way, you’re in this world, too.
lol. This one confused a lot of viewers, didn’t it? I don’t know about the subs but what TE meant to say was “Hey, kiddo! I didn’t know you biked around this part of the world, too. What are you doing here?”
Remember, she encountered the kid outside the library. (Was it the national library?) She didn’t expect to see the child at an abandoned warehouse in some isolated place in Seoul (Republic of Korea).
But the Yoyo Girl didn’t try to explain that she was in Corea. Fate/Yoyo Girl probably thought TaeEul would figure it out soon enough anyway and it would have been a waste of precious time.
Yoyo: There’s only one of me. I went to the other world.
Meaning, there’s only one Fate. Logically speaking, there can only be one fate. Can you imagine if there was more than one??? They’d be fighting about who has the ultimate decision on life and death.
But Fate can be found in both worlds. Yoyo girl took on the appearance of the Bike Kid when she was in the Republic of Korea.
Yoyo: (cutting the rope and handing the switchblade) I’m trying to correct the balance. There are too many enemies.
Fate/Yoyo Girl had been working with Lee Gon and TaeEul who had NO CLUE that Lee Lim had been gathering up an army.
I told you, right? I told you when we were doing the number theory. I said the prevalence of numbers suggested that the Lee Gon and TaeEul were ALSO surrounded by Lee Lim’s men but they were oblivious. The enemies were within their midst but they didn’t know there were the bad guys because the enemies blended well in the background. Both Corea and Korea were infiltrated by Lee Lim’s bad guys.
TE: (looking at the knife then the child) You… What’s going on? Who are you?
Then the bad guys enter the warehouse.
TE: (protecting the kid) Run.
TaeEul didn’t know that she’d been transported back into the Kingdom of Corea. She thought she was in the Republic of Korea because she recognized the kid as the bike boy outside the library. She thought the bike boy was biking all around the place while unattended by his parents.
The story is coherent.
As for Luna’s conversation with Yoyo Girl:
Yoyo: (handing Luna her blade) This was in the pocket.
Luna: I didn’t come for that. You can keep it. Use it to protect what belongs to you.
This is interesting. Luna said to use the blade to protect what belongs to Yoyo Girl. Yoyo Girl then use the knife to cut TE’s rope and she gave it to TE. To me, the, Yoyo Girl was protecting TE because TE was “hers” or “one of her people.”
Luna: (handing the car key) You know where my car is, right? You can have that too. And everything inside the car. All I ask for in return is that you feed Luna.
Two interpretations: either Luna didn’t expect to return from her mission (aka she was staying in Korea) or she didn’t expect to survive this mission. She was giving away all her possessions.
Yoyo: Are you stealing something again?
I think she intends to steal TaeEul’s identity in the parallel universe. She wants TE’s family and friends. She wants to stop running. But I’m sure her scars would give her away.
Luna: Do you believe that God exists?
Yoyo: (nods head)
Luna: Then, I’ll be punished. (looking at the yoyo) By the way, that yoyo…Why is the string red?
Because when a red string breaks, it means life ends.
Yoyo: I hooked it up myself.
Luna: Who taught you that expression? Hook it up again? It looks like it might break. Bye.
Yoyo: Alright bye.
The White Truck of Doom
Who else was frowning at the white trucks of doom?
This white truck rammed the police chasing Luna.
I thought Luna escaped it but then a silver car of doom crashed into her.
But that wasn’t enough for this director apparently. TaeEul was nearly mowed down by a white truck of doom, too.
The director thought that trope was funny. I still remember this @$#@# truck from “Goblin.”
But you know what was funny? Lee Lim’s minions met White Horse of Doom. Lady Maximus just rammed through the crowd, too, like a wrecking ball. Sweet!
Dies Irae by Verdi
Thanks, Snowflower! I had a brain freeze and couldn’t remember the name of the music. “Dies Irae” means “Wrath of God.”
The day of wrath, that day
Will dissolve the world in ashes
As foretold by David and the Sibyl!
How great the tremors there will be,
when the judge comes,
investigating everything strictly!source: https://www.liveabout.com/verdis-dies-irae-lyris-and-text-translation-724035
.
Swoonworthy Moment of the Episode
This was a swoon-worthy moment. I’ll have to give the Shallow Islanders credit for this one.
Thank you, @packmule3. The conversation between Tae-Eul and Fate makes more sense in your interpretation.
“King Sunjong’s removal was a cautionary tale for him.” I have been wondering how his actions will be remembered. He may have been thinking of this when he was rejecting the PM when she said that he ‘owed’ her. He had no idea how strange his life/history would become and how his actions in eps. 9 and 10 have changed him. Even LL mentions that LG is no longer benevolent.
Great as always. Quick question:
How do you think it’s gonna play with the people of the KOC the whole beheading thing? Will they change their views on LG?
@Alxmar97, yes the view will change. For better or worse depending on how this is presented to them. It’s fiendish, because if the King says it’s due to a parallel world/time travel, etc., they will think him not just whimsical but criminally insane.
@Fern the idea of a disgraced King is music to my ears. Don’t get me wrong, I love LG and that’d be a great challenge for him. Sadly, I don’t think there aren’t enough episodes for that.
His is a constitutional monarchy, so I would think that such things as ‘due process’ would be necessary except if war was declared. I’m confused as to what he actually, legally can or can’t do. Now there is to be a beheading(!) and there have been many other deaths due to his own orders (which he says are law). Monarchs perceived to over-reach their rights have been ousted or executed in history. We have the Russians, French and British (Charles 1) among many others. It will be interesting.
@packmule3 Very fitting music that! @Snow Flower: Thanks😊LG looked like the wrath of God personified! I got goosebumps just watching him **swoon** Just when all hope seemed lost…that rescue..so cool! and that guttural shout by LMH 😍😍😍
If attack labeled a terrorist attempt to destabilize the country, beheading would be tolerated. People will rally around their favored king.
He can always announce a wedding to distract his people, too.
I think what’s more serious here is that *something* (I don’t what it is, I’m not psychic 😂) will push him to time travel.
You see, the LG who kissed TE in Ep 10 is from the future. It’s not THIS current LG.
So….something will happen in Ep 12 or 13 that will compel Lee Gon to look for time travel. 🙃 Maybe TE’s death. Maybe political chaos. But definitely something huge.
Thanks @pkml3. Am summoning energy for tonight. Did you get my 2 emails on the photos, by the way? There are photos aplenty in this episode, not all of them new.
This episode gave me a chance to stop the scene at P Buyeong’s family so that I could look at those faces. None look familiar. One commenter (elsewhere) mistakenly said that the granddaughter was the psychiatrist, but no, I don’t think so. 🙂
Thank you @packmule3 !
More anxious for today’s episode now 💕
@pkml3
My thoughts on the enigmatic Prince Buyeong.
This is very interesting. Prince Buyeong spoke in ciphers and is a cipher (as in code, not as a nonenity or zero).
(With help from @Welmaris’ write-up on characters) Prince Buyeong (PB) is cousin to King Lee Ho and Lee Lim. He has at least 1 son (but the family photos show us 4 people of mid generation ie 1 is PB’s son with his wife and they have a daughter, Se Jin, then there’s another couple which I’m guessing is PB’s younger daughter and her husband. They seem to have a son.
There is a troubling ambivalence about him. I believe that even though he chooses to do no evil, it’s possible that he knows of evil and is letting it continue unchallenged. He gives mixed signals.
PB is adamant that his son should not come at all to visit him in Korea. Upon his father’s death, the Son, Lee Seong Hoon, is disapproving of how his father had dedicated himself to the royal house, practically disowning his own son, and seeming to covet his father’s position. But it’s interesting that PB disapproves of his own son, choosing to be loyal to LG. The one who is to be next in line is Se Jin, Seong Hoon’s daughter.
For reasons he never elucidates except to say that he wanted to save the Royal House that was in chaos, he hid the fact that LL was alive. He kept it a secret for 25 years, allowing his cousin to proliferate in power and manipulate many in both universes. He only tells LG the truth when he has no choice.
He is obedient to the law that says he and his family must stay out of politics. But he still has followers who want him to take a stand.
He takes and keeps the ring that LL had worn. He says that it is the King’s ring and he and LL should not covet it. But he did not return it to the King either. And ends up on his dead finger possibly as a mockery by LL, as sign that PB might have coveted the throne but hid this very well.
He can be found in nice cafes or in his study, but suddenly decides to visit the Eosu Bookstore, the only place in Busan that he ventured into, and it was in the slum. It is strange that he should expect a slum bookstore to have medical books. It is more unusual for him to venture into the slum area because he was also class conscious, when he spoke of the class disparity as a comment against PM Koo.
LL had not seen Buyeong in over 25 years, but when PB went to Eosu Bookstore, LL said it was not a coincidence but destiny. Or, it was a deliberate move on PB’s part.
LG refers to the visit to that bookstore as a move his uncle made. He recalls his Uncle saying: “The footsteps you take by risking your whole life is what’s fate.” And he realises that that’s what PB had done. He had risked his life by going to that Bookstore. He had found out that LL’s den was at that Bookstore, and he had drawn attention to himself by speaking with the store owner and saying that he looked familiar. It would be fated if this move brought trouble upon him.
I agree that both PB and Fate knew that something would likely happen to PB after this, and when that happened, they knew that LG would check the daily logs and note PB’s unprecedented visit. Because Fate had drawn attention to herself and the bookstore in the video clip, LG would pay more attention to that place, and discover the hideout of LL’s minions.
I’m guessing that PB never wanted to turn his cousin, LL in. He would have kept the secret to his grave if LG had not dug for an answer. He considered LL and himself to be ‘Uri’ ‘We’. But LL only saw PB as a weak fool, and did not consider him equal.
He chose to kill him because his death would bring despair to LG. (Koo also liked to see LG in despair. And she wanted to crush his heart. Koo and LL would be great as allies against LG).
LL for his part, counted on PB’s staunch loyalty to the Royal House. Also, once PB had lied, he could no longer go back on his word and say that the corpse was not LL. So LL stayed safe. I assume that over the years, PB had made enquiries or noticed familiar faces (they were Royal Guards) that had become traitors, and traced them to Eosu Bookstore. The other possibility is that Fate had a hand as well, in leading PB to the store.
Aside – it occurred to me that LL had also counted on LG being benevolent, according to the image that LG had kept up. His surprised: ” Who knew my nephew could be such a blood-thirsty tyrant?” made me LOL That was really the Pot calling the Kettle black! He had forgotten that in the same way that LG in KOC picked up the sword, even Ji Hun in ROK had picked up the rebar/crowbar to attack LL with. LG and his parallel would not be benevolent when it came to treason and murder.
Lol. I thought yoyo kid is boy 🤣
So i called yoyo kid as He🥴
Why you guys call yoyo kid as girl? 🤣
yoyo kid always wearing boy clothes. Im so Confuse 🥴
Same here, I was confused. But somebody here said that Yoyo Kid was a female actress and I just went along with it.
Probably the casting director had a number of children try out. Perhaps she was the only one who could work a yo-yo properly. 😊 I assume that the character is supposed to look like and be a young boy nonetheless unless we hear differently later. Rather like Maximus is supposed to be a mare.
@ Lovebangwon @packmule3 – that was me who clarified that it was an child actress as Yoyo-id based on this –
http://asianwiki.com/The_King:_Eternal_Monarch
http://asianwiki.com/Kim_Bo-Min_(2010)
KES may be going after presenting Fate as something asexual.
@packmule3 – am glad am not that all wrong in my initial interpretation of the interaction between YY Kid & TE. I posted in the open thread and was not able to come back for this new thread. So yeah, thanks
@GB – I have shared my ambivalence about PB before. Some things just don’t add up. Despite his death, i feel that there are more revelations to dig into. But I have to say, his son is some piece of work (looks to the sky!)
—————–
Meanwhile, am intrigued as to how things will shape up wrt what the producers said about “JY disappointing LG”. That may be revealed in the next couple of episodes.
1.5 hours for me to see Epi 12. Usually Saturday epis are better than the Friday’s so am really excited!
Sorry – I should have said
KES may be going after presenting Fate as something GENDER NEUTRAL (not asexual)
Animal biology seems to be taking over my thoughts
Thank you packmule3. I wish I could watch this drama with all of you over a glass of wine or tea as it is unfolding. These discussions in real time would be epic! I do love reading these intricate, well-reasoned articles, though.
Thanks for the explanation of the music that was playing on the radio. When LL’s minion couldn’t get it to change, I knew it was an important plot point and was frustrated that Netflix didn’t bother to comment on it.
About my question on how LG could only be the 3rd king, you said ‘No. Lee Gon came from a long line of kings.” I agree with that, but in the 1st episode during his coronation, it is stated several times that he is being coronated as the 3rd king of Corea. This little fact has been nagging at me for awhile, and I wondered what you make of it.
@Packmule3,
You’re right. And I quickly reread what I posted.
Damn-it!
I was a pain in the ass. I reacted viscerally.
When I say that I’m often painful… 🙂
Basically I was more angry at the hype, a lot of people who are Goblin fanatics. It annoyed me so much when I saw how boring the drama was.
However, I didn’t erase it, unlike Kill Me Heal Me.
I can still watch it. Right now, I’m really enjoying Kim Go Eun’s performance as an actress in TKEM. She’s a very good actress, which makes me want to see more with her.
Oh! That part!
Lee Gonis considered the “3rd king” because his grandfather change the system of government from “absolute monarchy” to “constitutional monarchy” in 1945. So Lee Gon is, strictly speaking, only the third king in this current form of government. 🙂
Mychoiyoung: i guess yoyo kid character has no gender, just like the Butterfly/the God in goblin. But The butterfly always possessed boy/man body.
Then i will still assume yoyo kid as boy, since she dressed like boy here🤣
Hi bye mama writer also love to casting actors to play opposite gender.
But is “fate” supposed to be female or masculine? I thought it was gender neutral so I thought it was creative that Fate looked like a boy but was played by a child actress. It’s “gender-bending.”
The horse?? The way it was cavorting with Lee Gon/Lee MinHo on the set, I should have known it was female. lol. He’s irresistible, isn’t he?
Ah, thanks so much packmule3 for “Lee Gon is considered the “3rd king” because his grandfather change the system of government from “absolute monarchy” to “constitutional monarchy” in 1945. So Lee Gon is, strictly speaking, only the third king in this current form of government. 🙂” I will now quit obsessing over this!!!
Lol @@packmule3 Lady Maximus should become a resident of our Shallow Island too🤣🤣🤣 She will fit right in!
I don’t think it was a truck of doom but Lee Rim’plans to get Luna. If he can kill a girl in prison, he can kill a cop…
“This was a swoon-worthy moment. I’ll have to give the Shallow Islanders credit for this one.”
HAHA, yep, thanks
I’m a shallow islander all right. Everyone and their mother is hot in this drama. Even LR :))
Anyway, when Fate helped TE I wondered, if this is iteration number 137 (or another number, definitely not 1) in the time loop, did Fate help every time, or he/she/it started helping only now?
And I had another thought, but this is more of a laugh than anything serious: there could have been iterations where all the things we’re tolled about in the previews to next episodes happened exactly the worst way they could and not the benign way they ended up being (Eun Sop getting shot without a bullet proof vest, TE dying when chased by LR’s men before LG can save her)
@packmule3, justa piece of fun information for you-if you want agood visual ofKoreanroyal history juxtaposed on Asianroyal history and compared toEuropean royal histories, check out the YouTube channel Useful Charts. My husband found it and it has provided uswith hours of information from fa ily histories to virology to thecomparisons of writing systems. The visuals and narrative are very clear. After reading your wonderfully detailed posts, I think this would bejust up your alley. And given what I think is your busy life full of curiosity, you’d find this enjoyable. Bitches is now my go-to site in my email feed-I can spend hours reading you and your regular contributors. Perfect forgetting through quarantine and sure beats the never-ending cooking/cleaning cycle.
Can you tell me about the poems that Lady Noh’s reading?
Thanks for the explanation regarding TE and yo-yo boy conversation. That’s what I thought too, that TE just stated that he is there too, in the warehouse. It’s nicely done that Luna’s knife was the one to set TE free.
Yes, I’m working on the poems.
But first, I’ve to write something for the other drama I’m watching, Hospital Playlist. But a compilation of the poem is already on my “To Do” List. Thanks for being patient. 🙂
I have been thinking of HCL. She said she left her village in 1950. She could only be brought over by the then king who was the one with the flute. At the time Prince B would have been 9 years old. Wasn’t the traitor born in 1951? She would have been 18. What if HCL is the traitor’s mother? What if he understood the power of the flute from her. When the king returns from ROC with En Sup she is sewing talisman’s in the lining of a jacket. We have not seen the king wear that color jacket yet. It could be the lining for the jacket that he visited TE in to give her the flowers. She also was staring at the four tiger sword in its new location in the King’s bedroom. It may have more significance to her than we realize.
Just a thought