Before I start with my highlights, I’ll post an excerpt of @growing_beautifully’s rants in the comment section because I agree with her.
Testing Man Wol
And Ma Go 1 takes the cake for being hypocritically benevolent on the one side but unconscionably indifferent and even evil on another. She deliberately planted ideas that could be misconstrued and left it ambiguous to test MW who was not in any right frame of mind to be tested. The price for failing this test was much too high. Why bother to set up so much for MW’s redemption, only to pull the rug out from under her feet?
Previously we were thinking that her test would come when evil befell her beloved and we’d see whether she’d take revenge for that or not. But Hong Sisters have one upped that by merging both perpetrator and victim in her beloved, to see if she’d still take revenge. So really, MW failed the test!!!
She was given insufficient information and of course she flunked it!
Once she had the memories of her comrade and enemy, once she was told how to call forth CM, she gained the needed information to make an informed choice. But MG refused to let her have this!!! How unfair was that?
MG deliberately refused to remove MW’s doubts and in so doing, was as culpable of any harm that MW could and almost did cause, as all those cases before about allowing evil while doing nothing. Why bother to put MW in the hotel for her redemption or bring CS to her, if in the end MG was going to engineer such a terrible situation that could well have resulted in CS’s death. In effect what we said about CS receiving the lily in advance, as a child holds true… he was meant to be sacrificed if necessary in order to test MW!!!
So after 13.5 episodes we are left with unnecessary grudges and lots more to be punished for. MW should actually have gone on her knees before CS to be forgiven and should have been punished for giving that hairpin to Jin Woo. She risked so many innocents who would have been possessed by him and possibly died. The only great thing about that CS-Jin Woo fiasco was having the Hotel 3 Amigos doing the cool slow-mo walk in the mist, to help CS.
Then in the end if all Jin Woo could do was turn and run and get easily throttled by Grim Reaper… what was all that talk from MW that GR had his work cut out for him with JW becoming an evil spirit? Did he not make use of the power in the hairpin? The ending was surprisingly and disappointingly lame for Jin Woo after 3-4 episodes of him being bad-ass evil.
To give show it’s due, it was still a compelling watch although a watch in which I face palmed a few times. What added conflict can we hope for in 2 more episodes, other than: ‘will she or won’t she come back’, or ‘remember’ (amnesia trope warning!!!) or will we have a time skip of years?
I refuse to entertain the thought of her going off across the bridge with CM… anyway ep ended with her turning her back on him. Hope she keeps walking away from that insect.
1. Shut up, Mago 1!
MG1: Jang Manwol, why are you leaving?
MW: I don’t want to see you. Admire the flowers you have wanted as much as you want and just leave.
MG1: Thus, will you let him just pass by? Will you pretend to be clueless?
Duh! Why was MaGo1 asking the obvious? Couldn’t she tell that Manwol was avoiding her because she’d reached her limit with their schemes? MW wanted to stay in her “safe zone” so she wouldn’t commit a mistake that would send MG4 flying to her side. MW was exercising caution in the interest of self-preservation.
MG1: You have met him. (MW turns) You can’t run away from it. He’s already by your side. I finally get to give this to you. (hands MW the hairpin) It’s yours.
Shut up already, MG1!
Her doublespeak is causing confusion. Mago meant that Manwol already “met” the Captain when she hugged Chansung’s body outside the tunnel. Manwol also recognized the Captain’s touch when he cupped her head. But she felt Chansung’s chest and ascertained that it was him alright.
However, because of MaGo’s ambiguous words, MW began to doubt herself again. Moreover, handing MW the hairpin confused her since Chansung said earlier that he dreamed of a hairpin with a moon, and he wasn’t sure how he had that vision. Manwol tried to bring up the time when he wondered whether he had a past life that he didn’t remember. Back then, Manwol was so certain that he wasn’t the Captain.
MaGo’s words was messing with Manwol.
At least the Herbalist MG2 admitted the truth to Chansung when Chansung later searched her out to ask, “Am I really the man from JMW’s past whom she hates?” MG2 said, “There’s no way my unni said those exact words. Because that man is right here.”
MW: Is it Chansung?
MG1: If it’s Chansung, will you be able to accept it?
Answer the question, MG1. Stop answering with a question of your own.
MW: (shouting) Is Chansung that person?
MG1: That man you have been waiting for over 1000 years has finally showed up. But you don’t seem happy. You were so sure of yourself that once he came to this world, you’d kill him and extinguish yourself. Are you second-guessing yourself now?
Manwol said that she was prepared to kill the Captain and pay the price for it, which was her complete extinction (with no possibility of reincarnation). Mago1’s hypothetical argument,”If he came as Chansung, will you still kill him?” only serves to reinforce the suspicion in MW’s mind the Captain came in Chansung’s body.
Mago1 was being disingenuous here. She was calculating on Manwol to be wary of deception. Mago1 knew that the Captain wasn’t Chansung but she encouraged Manwol to suspect that their a physical connection.
MW: That’s why I’m asking, is it Gu Chansung?
She asked three times already and this god refused to answer her.
MG1: You have fed the hatred of yours for a long time. Why don’t you let go of your hatred with the love you’ve received at the end of this long time?
Darn it, Mago1. Answer the question!
Manwol couldn’t let go of the hatred for the man and for her horrible fate because the MaGos continue to play these dirty tricks on her.
MW: (exhaling) I’ve hated the man for over 1000 years. But you made me see him as a man whom I fell in love with?!
MG1: I’m also curious to know which man you’ll see in Chansung. Whether you see Go Chungmyung and kill yourself or see Gu Chansung and redeem yourself, that’s your choice.
GRrrr. Was it that difficult to respond to Manwol’s yes-or-no question? She left without giving an answer. More importantly, didn’t the MG1 know that whenever Manwol was forced to decide between two alternatives, she uses cunning and resourcefulness to come up with a third option?
2. Killing Chansung
In her imagination, she killed Chansung. In her imagination, her hatred for the Captain surpassed her love for Chansung that she ran to stab Chansung with her hairpin. In her imagination, too, Chansung would have willingly accepted death from her hands, “I told you to trust me.”
And that’s when she realized that she couldn’t kill Chansung even if he was the reincarnate Captain. No matter how deep her hatred for the Captain, she couldn’t harm Chansung.
Hence, she told the housekeeper??
MW: I just killed CS in my thoughts. It’s possible that he could be the reincarnation of the man I abhor the most.
Housekeeper: It couldn’t be him. Mr. Gu also said it wasn’t him.
MW: Right. It might not be him. But as long as there’s a possibility that it could be him, there’s no way I’ll be able to face Chansung.
Housekeeper: Now what will you do?
MW: (looking at the hairpin) I can never kill Gu Chansung. Mago shin told me that I have to completely empty myself. I have to think hard how I’m going to empty myself.
lol. I had to laugh at the next scene, though. In the next scene, Chansung is preparing a meal for her.
She want to empty herself of her bitterness and hatred =/= he wants to fill herself up with sweet food.
3. The blood on the hairpin
MW: This blood is probably filled with my hate.
CS: Why would MaGo Sin give you such a scary thing? Give it to me, I’ll hold on to it.
MW: I’m going to get rid of it. If it’s a moon that is tainted with blood, it needs to disappear. MaGo Sin said that the moon that is filled with hate should be emptied.
I’ll have to agree with Chansung. Why would MG1 give her that hairpin? It’s like giving a handgun to a suicidal man? Sigh… Hong sisters!
CS: Can you do that?
MW: I’m going to have to. I’m going to try to call for the blood-stained moon.
4. Manwol talking to her young self
This reminds me of Gyeong Ah who was a figment of someone’s imagination. An illusion.
MW: Seeing that it has a moon symbol on it, he must have really had it made to give to you. You would’ve received this and been really happy. (looking at herself) For me, that is the most dreadful thing you did.
MW: When he came, I was going to throw him into the hell that you made and make both of you cease to exist.
She meant that before Chansung, she had nothing to lose. She was reading to throw herself away if that meant getting rid of the Captain.
MW: Because of the trickery of the gods, I can’t do that anymore. I – even though it’s humorous – have fallen in love again. I was trying to pretend not to know you by relying on that love. (meaning, the love she had for Chansung would have made her forgotten her hatred for the Captain)
She meant that the MaGos deprived her of her chance to get even because she couldn’t kill Chansung. She tried to set aside the grudge she’d borne because she had fallen in love again. She tried to ignore the hatred she carried for a thousand years because she found love.
MW: But memories of you are dragging me down to the bottom again. I’m going to put you in here (the hairpin) and put you in a trash can somewhere here. You’re going to go crazy, and that’s how we’ll cease to exist together.
It was like the curse she made for Mira.
She had put all the sadness and loneliness in that spirit of the child, and had Mira embraced that spirit, she would have overwhelmed with despair.
This time, Manwol transferred all her grudge, resentment, and hatred into the hairpin. And whoever found the hairpin would be filled with her bad emotions and grow in evilness.
Manwol chose to self-destruct with the hairpin as the trigger.
5. Her plan
MW: Gu Chansung. MagoSin said that you’re THAT man. (aka the Captain. He’s stunned.) I have to kill you but I can’t. Because I like you too much. But I’m not going to protect you either. I’ve been waiting over 1000 years to kill you. If I were to protect you now, the resentment I’ve held would become a joke.
Bingo! It essentially was a joke.
The way the Captain was rehabilitated by the Hong sisters, most viewers were convinced that he was guilty of NOTHING and that he had NO CHOICE but to put MW through hell. They see him as a tragic and romantic character who did it all for ~~love~~.
He was a poor little victim of circumstances. Here, I’ll give him a pat on the back.
Grim Reaper: If that vengeful ghost turns into an evil ghost, you, who helped him gain that strength, will also dissipate.
The Reaper meant that Manwol was an accessory to evil. She became complicit when she gave her accessory her hairpin to Jinwoo. But…but…but what about Mago, too? Didn’t she give the hairpin to Manwol, too? Shouldn’t she be held accountable, too? lol. See that logic fail of the Hong sisters.
MW: That’s alright. (Chansung looks at her) Since you’re a human that the Grandmothers adore, they’ll take action before the vengeful ghost kills you.
CS: And then…you’re going to dissipate?
MW: (avoids his eyes) In the end, I did use you. It’s sad that this is what love is.
Edit. 8/29/2019 There was a comment about Manwol deliberately endangering Chansung.
@oli had explained that Manwol didn’t really plan on getting Chansung killed.
I got the feeling MW made a setup in which CS’s life would be in danger but only she’d be destroyed because of it. Nothing would happen to him.
She was sure MaGo will intervene and save him so she made it seem like she made a plan to kill him but the actual plan was not that, but to destroy herself who wanted both to kill and not kill him. And couldn’t settle on neither.
To give MaGo4 a reason to destroy her.
And here’s my take on it, too.
Yes, Manwol was COUNTING on the MaGos to intervene because Chansung is a “special child” but even if they weren’t going to step in the final moments, she would have a contingency plan…like the hotel employees and the Grim Reaper. lol 🙂
To me, that would explain why all three showed up. She was banking on them (and the Grim Reaper) to come in and protect him. As the Grim Reaper said, he was a perfect bait. lol.
Chansung was supposed to stall and delay until the GR arrived to catch Jinwoo. Chansung would have been fine.
But since Jinwoo would have used MW’s hairpin to commit the crime, MW expected to be hauled in by MaGo4 and punished. She would have been deemed guilty right away.
But her plan was botched because Chansung arrived too soon. Hence, she insisted on MaGo4 to go through with punishment even though Chansung already halted the proceedings and showed the hairpin as proof that she didn’t aid and abet Jinwoo to commit evil.
And if you ask me why did she do this, I’d say it was because she was hoping that Chansung would BELIEVE that she had discarded him, left him unprotected or endangered him. She was giving him an “out” so he wouldn’t grieve her death. 🙂
But as I said (in another post), one of Chansung’s admirable qualities is his faithfulness. He would keep the faith and remain steadfast even though it would seem that all hope was lost.
6. The Goblin homage
I agree with @GB that the slow-mo walk of the Fab Three looked cool.
The only great thing about that CS-Jin Woo fiasco was having the Hotel 3 Amigos doing the cool slow-mo walk in the mist, to help CS.
It reminded of the “Goblin” parade.
7. Saving Manwol
Chansung interrupted MaGo4 as she was about to punish Manwol.
CS: You can’t. I found it and brought it back. There’s no reason to extinguish her now. Please leave.
That’s my man! And that’s why he’s way cooler than that Captain. He doesn’t give up fighting for her. He even told MG4 to leave.
MW: (stubbornly) Just extinguish me.
CS: (stares at her) Alright, then do that.
He went up to her to stand in front of her, within arm reach.
CS: (continuing) If you must be in that hell, then I’ll also go in there. I’ll become that man for you.
He handed her the hairpin and didn’t move away.
That’s what the Captain should have done. The Captain drew his sword and parried her attacks. Then, when he lost his sword and she had him pinned, he ran into her sword.
Chansung gave Manwol the choice to kill him or not.
CS: Kill me. I promised to be by your side, resolved that. If I end up dying trying to stop you, then it’s too bad.
The Kissasian sub was better, “Fine. Go ahead and have what you want. If you must torment yourself like that. I’ll become the guy that you keep thinking that I am. (puts the hairpin in her hand) Kill me. I’d promise to stay by your side even if have to die for getting in your way.”
What he meant he’d do the “uncool” thing of holding her back from killing herself…even if he should die attempting to obstruct her. They would die together then.
Note this: He could have told her that he wasn’t the reincarnated Captain. But he let her think that HE was the Captain while she decided whether to stab him or not. He was taking the place of Capt. Firefly and he was willing to die for that silly Capt Firefly if that was the only way to be beside her in her hell.
CS: The one you’d been waiting for is really here. (holding her shoulder firmly) If you’ve come this far, then you should listen to what happened to that blood-stained moon. That’s how you’ll let it go.
Thank you!!! While the MaGos were doing stupid shit, Chansung was offering her closure the right way. And Manwol could trust him because he’d never play tricks on her.
And she started writing the invitations. I like that he held her hand while she signed her name. True, he was giving her strength. But also, he was letting her sign the invitation on her own, unlike before when he forced her to sign on the departure delay for the Blind Ghost.
BTW, did anybody notice that she didn’t have manicured fingers in this episode?
8. The Captain’s Decision
Here, I’m using the subs from Kissasian because it made sense. In the Viki subs, there was no distinction between the rebels and Manwol’s gang of bandit. Also, from my experience with Viki subs, when some subbers have a bias, their work becomes slanted. lol. I still remember “The King in Love”….
Princess: ChungMyung. My father is looking for you.
Capt: Why is he looking for me?
Princess: We received a tip that you are in league with the rebels in Mt. Dongmo. You will die if you go see my father now. So I gathered some soldiers. I told them to go capture everyone helping the one you’re waiting for.
In this Kissasian sub, the Princess knew he was waiting for Manwol and referred to her as “the one you’re waiting for.” She wanted Manwol’s people captured. The Viki subs short-cut it to “I gathered some men. They are waiting to kill those thieves.”
Capt: What do you mean?
Princess: Those bandits are remnants of Goyurgeo. If you capture all of them and take them to my father, he will no longer suspect you.
Capt: They’re just wandering thieves that steal from peddlers.
Good! At least, he tried to argue for his bandit friends.
Princess: If you are executed as a traitor, all your subordinates as well as everyone who is related to you will die. Even if there are hundreds of people, my father will kill them all as he is afraid of a coup. Go and capture them all.
Then, in the forest scene:
Yeonwoo: You just have to capture those who steal, so why are you dragging even the villagers?
Capt: I’m not here to capture bandits. I’m here to crush a rebellion.
Yeonwoo: What?
Yeonwoo didn’t understand that Captain was using them as collateral in a fight between the King and the rebels. The Captain had been caught fraternizing with the rebels. So to save his own skin and his people, Manwol’s people, that is, the bandits and the villagers were going to be killed. He offered up Manwol’s people so he wouldn’t be executed as a traitor, and his people wouldn’t be harmed.
He had to pick one or the other.
Interestingly, the viki and the Kissasian differed in subs after this.
Viki:
Capt: So you want to try to have Manwol stay alive? In order to do that, half your people would have to die.
Kissasian:
Capt: I’ll try my best to help you so that you can survive as a slave. And to do that, all your men must be killed as rebels.
See the difference? The Viki didn’t say that he tried to save Yeonwoo. The Viki said half would die, while Kissasian said all. That’s a big difference between half and all.
Yeonwoo: But you…tell me, why are you doing this?
Capt: I tried hard to find a way we could be together. In the new country that you want, I too want to be there. I got caught. And even if I must risk your life, I need to cover it up. If I cover it up safely, then I’ll repay my debt with my life.
This is important. He was covering up his ass because he got caught with the REBELS. The ragtag gang of bandits was his sacrificial lamb. The Kissasian sub was very clear on this, “But I got busted. And now, I must take your lives to cover it up. After I bury all of it (he presumably meant after burying their dead bodies), I’ll pay for what I did with my own life.”
Can you believe this guy?!
Yeonwoo: Don’t pay it with your life. But save Manwol. In order to do that, don’t give those lame excuses that you gave me and just live as a traitor. Then Manwol can live.
The Kissasian sub was blunter, “No, don’t. Just save Manwol. And to do that, you must live as a traitor instead of listing all the excuses that you gave me. Then, Manwol will live.”
I like that Yeonwoo called him out. Yeonwoo was the one who pointed out that Manwol was top priority. LOL. It wouldn’t surprise me if he even forgot that he was supposed to meet Manwol at the lake.
Manwol realized then that Yeonwoo made him promise. “So, it was a promise with Yeonwoo.”
To answer @flying_tool’s question:
After the drink with the moon tree flower and MW seeing his past, what does YS know with his mind vs with his heart? Why the tears?
Given that YS already had some special senses, did his mind see their past – YW and MW and CM? Or just his heart?
I’m not sure. I think, because of the special moon tree flower cocktail, Mira had no recollection of that moment, a 1000 years ago, when she warned the Captain of danger. However, it’s possible that Yeonwoo retained his vision of the past when the Captain ambushed his gang, and confessed that he bungled up and needed to kill them all.
9. “Put your head on my shoulder.”
There’s no comparison now.
Pre-Hotel del Luna, this was my favorite put-your-head-on-his-shoulder scene. Gu Weiyi and SiTu Mo’s couple moment. hahaha.
Post-Hotel del Luna, this is my fave now.
I’m not really into noona romances, but I’m giving this couple a pass despite the 970-year age gap between them. It must feel good to have a guy like him patiently waiting while she settled her affair with her first love. He wasn’t even jealous.
I like how her head rested on his shoulder and her hand nestled in his.
10. Waiting for Manwol
We already knew that the Hong sisters have a checklist of tropes which includes Time Jumps, right?
So let’s just hang in there.
Good catch with the manicured fingers or lack thereof. A similar thing I noticed was as the romance progressed in more recent episodes, MW’s style has gotten less extravagant to the point when she says goodbye to CS at the end of episode 14, she is wearing relatively simple clothing and has a “natural” appearance without heavy makeup (I’m sure IU had a crapload of makeup on since actors have that when filming, but you know what I mean) – in a way, she looks the closest she’s been in 1300 years to her original appearance. The symbolism here is pretty obvious, she no longer needs the materialistic lifestyle to fill the void.
And, if we recall what CS said early on, when he and MW were discussing his dreams, about how all he saw was a happy young woman in love, with the camera zooming in on the ‘natural’, simple, smiling MW – this is the closest he is to witnessing that in the present. He’s helped her get over a nasty breakup with her first jerk of a boyfriend and she can live again.
Anyways, I agree that shoulder rest was damn cute and touching. It was quiet and silent, yet more intimate and meaningful than any hardcore sex scene could’ve been, no matter what some fangirls (and fanboys) might think. The two of them “get” each other now.
Actually, on the age gap, despite MW’s age, she still seems kinda like a 20 something to me. Given how flustered she gets when CS flirts back hard, she is also ironically kind of innocent despite her age, though to be fair being holed up in that hotel with ghosts and that grudge for 1300 years doesn’t offer a lot of good opportunities to date. So for all I know, this isn’t just a love story involving a 1300 year old mass murderer, it’s a love story involving a 1300+ year old mass murdering *virgin*. And to be honest, I don’t mind that either way, because I really enjoy MW and CS chemistry.
Lastly, as an obscure aside (given my degree is in history), if the translation is correct and the Princess was talking about the remnants of Goguryeo, then MW would be 1300 years old and not 1000 years old, and it would therefore be a ~1300 year age gap and not a 1000 year age gap. The kingdom of Goguryeo fell in the mid 600s to Silla and Tang China, but remnants survived for a few years, but by 1000 it was gone. Anyways, as a random tangent, at the start of the series MG1 asks if MW is Mohe or Khitan when they first met, and I thought this indicated MW was from the 900s and not the 600s, as Balhae, the main state of the Mohe, was collapsing in the 900s while the Khitan were on the rise, whereas in the 600s the Khitan were relatively minor groups, though the nomad revolt MW refers to might be the rise of the Balhae state. The Mohe are ancestors of the Jurchen, who were ancestors of the Manchu, while the Khitan were related to Mongolians – all groups who played their role in Korean history. But I digress.
Excellent posts, both yours and GB’s.
We could well be channelling MW because it hasn’t escaped my notice she has little respect for Mago!
But there’s another retrofit by Ma Go that also really bothers me. At first I was thrilled when she said there was one flower branch (golden bough) left as it fulfilled all my predictions based on The Golden Bough ritual. I don’t know if that was here or another site, but I specifically predicted the tree would become barren again but that one bough of flowers, or just a flower, would be left and with this Chang Sun could revive,resurrect, go the underworld and return with Man Wol.
But we’re told she stuck this in CS’s heart. Now we know why he always clutches his heart. But doesn’t it take away from the love story? Does CS want to protect and love her for herself or is he forced to do so because of those flowers? Conversely, is the reason MW is unable to kill CS directly because she loves him, or because killing him is killing herself because of those flowers?
I really expected a last branch to make its appearance but I don’t like how this unfolded as some kind of deus ex machine on the part of Mago.
The worst part of 14 was realizing MW was okay with CS dying if she didn’t have to kill him directly, and she actually schemes to have that happen. But she also says Ma go loves CS and won’t let him die. It would have been wonderful to me if we got a repeat of Ghost 13, and MW got the deities to punish CM, send serial killer to help and save CS. If we knew she had set it up, I’d feel better but except for that one line there’s nothing to say she was doing that. And anyway CM had the worst punishment of all already. Self inflicted. What an idiot.
Hey scholar-gentry, you’re not Kiara are you? She and I had a lot of fun during Moon Lovers delving into Korean history.
A translation was posted on the soompi forum regarding the history of MW, CM and YW. It was apparently extra info from the tv station. The history is the Silla Tang alliance against Goguryeo, hence MW is 1300 years old as Goguryeo collapsed then. Man Wol and Yeon Woo are Goguryeo natives forced into banditry when their country was conquered. CM is also a Goguryeo native, but his nobleman father betrayed Goguryeo to side with Silla Tang during the conflict so retained his noble status. The princess is a princess of Silla.
I have wondered, because Man Wol seems to be “special” in some way, if she is not a descendent of Jumong, founder of Gogoryeo and semi-divine.
Man Wol is inspired, by the way, mainly by Diana the virgin moon goddess, and therefore it’s no accident that she and Chang Sun (based on her companion and protector Hippolytus) come across as chaste. Once she enters the human world fully (good catch on the transition) and leaves behind her mythic limbo, she and CS should be rather more inclined to “shake that moon tree”. Or at least that’s what I hypothesize. Lol.
@Barbrey, I am also curious of Man Wol’s origin. Aside from the obvious fact that she seemed to be treated way more special by the deities, the writers can make up some interesting stories about her ancestry if they wish to.
My curiosity about her bloodline grew a bit more when in episode 12, it was the first time that MW openly shared to CS something sentimental about her past. That when she was very young (not sure if young kid, toddler, or a baby), she was dying in the wilds when she was found and saved by a merchant and YW’s mother took her in.
I don’t know much but I guess it’s possible that MW can be a descendant of Jumong. Whichever, I don’t think it will matter that much now given that there are already 2 episodes left.
On the side note, Kim Soo Hyun will be making a cameo in the finale and it’s said that his role will be an important one. I don’t know what they mean by “important.” How important? Is he gonna be somebody’s reincarnation? I doubt. Is he directly connected to the past, present future of one of the main leads? Could be. Or a fresh role like bringer of good news to carry out that plot twist.
If you guys can make wild guesses what his role’s gonna be, I’d be really pleased to read them. So that I could get rid of this silly thought of mine: What if he came as Do Min Joon? Giggles. 😁😁😁
Kim Soo Hyun?
My guess is he’s going to reprise his role as PD in that Kdrama “Producers” he co-starred with IU. 😂
Dear community, personally while I disliked the ManWol-MaGo exchange and all that happened because such a misunderstanding, please let me play the Devil’s Advocate:
Man-Wol has 1,300 years of hatred, so she had to get a catharsis.
If we follow through the lens of Alejandro Jodorowsky’s “Psychomagic”, then we can see that she needed to perform a ritual, a theatre act capable of uniting her conscious desires and her inconscious ones (who were in disarray, even conflict) to relieve her trauma. That ritual was to do her best to indirectly destroy Chang-Sung and to trust the MaGos and her staff to protect Chang-Sung.
For her to relieve herself she had to go with real stakes: Chang-Sung’s life. So at the end, she ended up using him (to have this catharsis).
Then, after her grudge was relieved, she could *finally* think clearly and be reasoned with. So she *nicely* asked the actors of that event and to discover the hidden truths behind the people she thought knew their motivations.
Like a parent having the patience to see his/her child to go through a tantrum to finally reason with him/her.
I think that even if convoluted it still thick a lot of boxes =)
Test
@Barbrey
“MW was okay with CS dying if she didn’t have to kill him directly, and she actually schemes to have that happen”
I got the feeling MW made a setup in which CS’s life would be in danger but only she’d be destroyed because of it. Nothing would happen to him.
She was sure MaGo will intervene and save him so she made it seem like she made a plan to kill him but the actual plan was not that, but to destroy herself who wanted both to kill and not kill him. And couldn’t settle on neither.
To give MaGo4 a reason to destroy her.
“at the start of the series MG1 asks if MW is Mohe or Khitan when they first met”
Actually she asked if MW is from MuJu (Zhou Dynasty under Empress Wu). All English subs messed this up. Re: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhou_dynasty_(690%E2%80%93705)
Wow, finally my butt light can be seen.
I agree.
I think she was COUNTING on the MaGos to intervene because Chansung is a “special child” but even if they weren’t going to intervene, she would have a contingency plan…like the hotel employees and the Grim Reaper. lol 🙂
To me, that would explain why all three showed up at that time. She was banking on them (and the Grim Reaper) to come in time. As the Grim Reaper said, he was a perfect bait. lol. Chansung was supposed to stall and delay until the GR arrived to catch Jinwoo and Chansung would be fine.
But since Jinwoo would have used her hairpin to commit the crime, she would have been deemed punishable by immediate death by MaGo4.
But her plan was botched because Chansung arrived too soon. Hence, she insisted on MaGo4 to go through with punishment even though Chansung already halted proceedings and showed the hairpin as proof that she didn’t aid and abet Jinwoo to commit evil.
Hmm… I’ll add this comment to Ep 14 highlights so I don’t have to look for it.
Thanks, Oli.
@barbrey @Storm Moon
Lol I’m not Kiara I guess, as I’m a he. :p
But thanks for the new information, it adds a lot of relevant historical context and gives us some insight into MW and especially CM.
Having MW as a descendant of Jumong would be funny. Why? Because Jumong’s family name (and the family name of the Gogoryeo ruling dynasty) was Go, written using the Chinese/Hanja character Gao. Who else has the last name Go, written using the Chinese/Hanja character Gao? CM. While I don’t think there is a “CM and MW are actually siblings separated at birth lolololol” cliche plot twist, it would be hilarious. Though most likely they’d be distant cousins which is fine for me – MW would then fit in the archetypical, mythology tale of a great hero of high birth who was abandoned at a young age and raised by a humbler family.
Still, either way, there’s a good case that CM might have a connection to the Gogoryeo ruling house. This might explain why he, a random nobody of a military captain, could marry the princess, if her father wanted to establish political legitimacy by symbolically integrating the Gogoryeo elites into Silla.
Even if he isn’t connected to their royal family, his father’s betrayal, and his background as a Gogoryeo native, explains why he is okay with the bandits at first and why he considers joining MW and her people later – it’s not just because he thinks MW is cute, he may also be feeling guilt for himself and his father. When YW tells him to live as a traitor, the funny thing is, in a way, he’s *been* a traitor since his father switched sides to Silla – in those days in old Asia, if you’re a traitor, your whole clan is. It doesn’t justify his stupidity, indecisiveness, and fuckboy behavior, but it does help me better understand him.
@sph_7 Thanks for the clarification (also are you the person on the Reddit thread?) That makes sense too and fits in with the timeline, and actually means we can pinpoint the events of MW’s past fairly accurately as having occured between 690-705, the years of Empress Wu’s reign in China, meaning assuming she is in her 20s at the story start, that she was born sometime around the 660s to the 680s which is around the time of the fall of Goguryeo was c. 660s.
I also think in a way when MG asks that question, since Khitan and Chinese aren’t the natives in the area, it’s like MG is asking symbolically, “Are you an outsider? An outcast?” MW has been one all her life. First as a native of a conquered land turned to banditry, then an outlaw and mass murderer on the run, and then after the lonely, bitter, jaded owner of the hotel.
Greetings everyone.
(Previous response was after many tries so I didn’t bother with introduction. Stalker for weeks. Posting into limbo for a while. I guess I had bad karma. I enjoy the reading despite unable to express myself. Thankfully I can say something before the show is finished.)
@The scholar-gentry – Yes, I’m on reddit. MW has always said she’s 1300, and that’s the years of rice cakes CS had to eat to catch up. Many times the dialogue simple says 천년 (cheon nyeon) and it gets translated to one thousand years. It’s actually not a specific number, more like “as many years as into the thousands”.
Here goes on random points:
1) From the day Mago 4 told her Chan Sung will pay a price to send her off, she started devolving into a hot mess. Twice she didn’t do her nails and everytime it was because of CS. First time I noticed the lack of fancy nails was when she thought CS died and touched his chest to check his heartbeat. MW’s wardrobe has entirely coordinated to match her relationship with CS. There was a docu-variety that interviewed the art director of the drama. Everything she wore when she started falling for CS had florals. From the moment she decided to kill him, she shifted to solid
2) I believe Man Wol really tried to kill Chan Sung, but I don’t blame her. When she met Mago 4 at Sanchez’s house, she said straight to her face that their system is despicable (viki translation understated her detest by using “petty”). She believes that they are ethically and technically capable of screwing her over with a perfectly disguised CM reincarnation, especially after learning that they hooked up YW with the princess that killed him. That plus Mago 1, usually the nice one, kept giving her half ass responses that she can easily misinterpret as either “She’s f*cking with me” or “She doesn’t want to break it to me”. She convinced herself that CS in CM.
3) I also think Man Wol tried to save Chan Sung from being killed by Man Wol. In the order of events happening, I think when MW thought of the plan to empty her old grudgy spirit into a hairpin to make Jiwon more powerful, she had full intention to kill CS. At this point she was roughly 50% love CS and 50% hate CM. She wanted him dead but couldn’t bear the pain to kill him. Once she handed her hairpin to Jiwon, the trash, she essentially removed most of her hate already. So when she saw CS and GR, she naturally wanted to save him. IU’s expression was already softer than when she saw him bring her sweets. She gave him a heads up, maybe thinking even if he survives at least she’s no longer here to face him. When CS walked in with her hairpin, MW suddenly felt urgency to be extinguished, because of her pain. While they both don’t realize her hate is still residing in the hairpin, Mago4 probably sees she has no will to hurt CS anymore. We see her brows twitch but displays no anger.
4) I don’t think Man Wol asked anyone but GR to help Chan Sung. I don’t think MW will risk the 3 staffs’ souls to fight a vengeful spirit. Stakes are too high, if her spirit was that powerful. She can’t trust the right Mago will appear either, since, well, she saw how Room 13 didn’t end how she expected. GR was the one who she trusts and he still owes her a favor. So at the bar, she hinted that he be alert of the ghost’s newfound powers. The staff was Chan Sung’s backup. He knows better than to fight a ghost with living flesh. He also seemed to be expecting their arrival.
5) I do have to say, Jiwon’s defeat was too easy. Why didn’t he consume the hairpin like Man Wol told him? I think if he did he would definitely become something more powerful than Room 13. The only reason I think can think of is that he didn’t know what to do with it. He felt stronger already just by holding it and thought that was it. Like the bartender said, he’s a baby ghost. He is ignorant of the ghost world rules. That’s how Chan Sung fooled him.
6) Finally, agree with everything @The scholar-gentry said about CM and his backboneless genes.
@barbrey Speaking of Moon Lovers, would you recommend that? I heard it’s not that good, but if it’s passable mindless entertainment I might consider it if only to see IU act, even if it’s not as good as in HDL, since I’m really enjoying her portrayal of MW. Otherwise I guess I could watch Producers, I heard that one was decent.
Also, on your point about the Virgin thing, I’d forgotten about your guys’ earlier discussion of Diana/Artemis. In light of that, my joke about MW being a virgin actually wouldn’t be too farfetched then. Of course, even without, uh, shaking that moon tree, MW has already been less virginal than Artemis simply by having an actual relationship lol. The idea of MW coming back “reborn” as human, and no longer mythic, sounds like a great one.
Funnily enough, when I was younger, even though I’m a guy, Artemis was the Greek deity I liked and was inspired by the most, because she always seemed super cool. I liked Athena, Persephone, and Hades too since they were generally the least douchey.
@The Scholar-gentry @packmule3 I was just about to go back and double check on her nail when I saw the post above! It occurred to me that it would look odd if MW was in such throes of distress but still had time to paste on fake nails!!! But I didn’t really notice it at the time.
Yes, she became more sober and simple in her dressing as befits the seriousness of her situation.
@Barbrey Ma Go 1 irritates me. I had hopes that MG1 would be a wise oracle of sorts and a true mentor but all the ‘good’ she did before was upended when she baited and deceived MW by withholding information. MW had been desperate and asked her repeatedly but she refused to answer. All her appearance of being sweet and kindly but insidiously handing out a lily to young CS should have warned me.
I like your idea of how the issue was solved with Ghost of Room 13. I don’t really find being a firefly absolves CM’s guilt or so much, or that he ever made any restitution that gets him a lily and special company to bring him to the Sanzu River bridge.
Yes, I was wondering about that ‘Golden Bough’ in CS’s chest. It really was more like a bough since there were twigs of flowers and not just a flower. Yes to how it’s leading up to CS being able to go and return from the afterlife – however it did not help him before in the tunnel – which gets me worried.
With that bough in CS – In the usual ambiguous way of MG, we don’t know if EVERYTHING was engineered even ‘lurve’, in which case why go through all this trouble for over a 1,000 years. I guess they want to leave us thinking viewers a chance to guess and interpret it any way we like. Ordinarily I’d not be thinking quite this much about a show and I’d have gone along with ‘it was true love’… or something like that.
@sph_7 So glad you made here afterall and before the series ends! I like your thoughts and contributions!
@sph_7 Your username looked familiar. 🙂
As to a couple of your points:
4) Interesting point about MW actually trusting the Grim Reaper. In a way, it makes sense – even though he’s a supernatural powerful being like MG, he’s never really tried to screw with her (from her POV) the way MG has. Even the most benevolent interpretation of MG is not as reliable as GR. GR just does his job.
5) Agreed with you on the oddity of Jiwon not eating the hairpin, that was a huge plot hole to me. If he was being stupid, then MW’s soul is literally saved because of a serial killer’s stupidity.
@scholar-gentry, I have a hard time recommending Moon Lovers because it was such a hot mess that it’s not like everyone would enjoy it. The editing was shit, plot holes galore, some of the acting excruciatingly bad, the ending anticlimactic – but I cried over this one more than any other kdrama. Mainly because of IU. Complaints about her acting were biased as she was going through a scandal at the time; also the director did weird close-up work with her. She did a bang-up job and broke my maternal heart.
The one thing the writer and director did really well was add mythical elements and symbolism to the cinematography, theme and plot. They played heavily with the Yuhwa – watermaid – daughter of the river God founding myth for Gogoryeo, and I actually wrote a few pinned essays for Soompi on this as I was the first to realize what they were doing. DRamabeans got into it too, we stretched the comments out to 1200 an episode sometimes,and I’m pretty sure that’s why there’s a “watermaid” category of user at dramabeans now.
Anyway, as with Hotel del Luna, this extra layer of myth and symbol, so rare in kdrama, added a dimension to Moon Lovers for me that actually made it a somewhat different drama than the one most people saw. So once again, don’t know if you’ll see or appreciate it like I did.
I will say this – the show doesn’t drag at all. There’s always something going on. I am notorious at home for hating slow shows. I didn’t like Goblin, Mr Sunshine or Descendents of the Sun, for instance, and one reason is not enough happened each episode and they bored me. So Moon Lovers shouldn’t bore you if you can suspend your disbelief over both the plot holes and bad editing (I mean – wtf?),and turn a blind eye to some of the bad acting (idols) and fan service. There’s sheer gold beneath the dross often, making me wonder if the writer was going through some kind of mental health “break” at the time.
MaGo tells MW to help CM to the afterlife as her final punishment. This requires MW crossing the River on the bridge of forgetting.
Reminds me of the Grim Reaper’s oblivion tea, in Goblin.
Gods/goddesses (writers) seem to be locked on the idea that forgetting is necessary. Even part of forgiveness?
Does MaGo see MW forgetting her past as punishment or reward?
Just thinking it’s not just CM who’s delusional.
I just read this post by someone on DB who says that maybe the name of the hotel was deliberately ‘Del’ instead of ‘De La’ Luna because of CM.
His last words to her had been: ‘Man-wol. I will carry you with me and become a restless moon, watching over you’
@Bogummypipeu says: “I think this is the reason why the drama is Hotel Del Luna instead of De La Luna. The hotel was built because of CM and he became the moon that have been watching over her since its inception thus the moon is masculine.”
I only noted that this could have been why she hated the full moon so much, but if ‘del’ is masculine, this could also well be correct. Someone should interview the Hong Sisters on the name of the hotel!!
About those horrid last words… made to sound so ‘caring’ but actually a curse!! It was not enough that he’d already robbed her of family, self-worth and choice in killing him, stupid firefly had to go and take MW’s name as well, curse her with stalking her all her life and spoil her enjoyment of the moon!
It turned out true in the end that there would be ‘carrying’ done, however it was not CM who carried MW, but the other way around, with him weak and useless in a jar, not even able to pass over without help. Again, he had done it to himself: gotten himself stuck in the hotel, doing no good whatsoever, until he finally popped up in the tunnel in time to save CS. No one knew or cared that he had been the first guest for a millenium. Way to go to have a total failure of an existence CM!
@GB I was just responding to that comment regarding the hotel name. Man Wol hated him and never even knew he was a guest. She also looked completely confused when he rambled about the moon and only took it as another bullshit confession. She resented it so much that she hated seeing the full moon even though that’s her name. (My name has Wol too and I can’t imagine myself hating the site of the moon). So it’s really a stretch to say the masculinity refers to CM. I think it’s just a simple mistake by the oblivious but trendy CEO-nim.
I’ll repost this on the blog, @growing_beautifully! Thanks for sharing!!
@GB, if you only knew how pleased I was seeing you sooooo irritated you with CM! Lol. I can feel your annoyance in here:
“About those horrid last words… made to sound so ‘caring’ but actually a curse!! It was not enough that he’d already robbed her of family, self-worth and choice in killing him, stupid firefly had to go and take MW’s name as well, curse her with stalking her all her life and spoil her enjoyment of the moon!”
I feel exactly the same! Full moon is supposed to mean something beautiful for Man Wol but because of him, it has become a stigma. I honestly cooled down a little bit knowing that he saved CS from totally getting lost in the tunnel. But in Episode 14 ending scene, I can’t help but get annoyed again as he extends his hand to Man Wol. I was like, “Really? Is he trying to lure MW to go the afterlife with him? Wow! The nerve! He had stalked MW for 1300 years so more than anyone, he must have known better! He was there from the beginning of her punishment so he had seen firsthand how miserable MW lived for a millennium. Even her luxurious life was just recent. They were broke for a long time. (Remembered the lollipop, now I’m giggling. And the other time where she had to dig the ground to have a fill.) 😅
I tried hard to balance my impression of him. Told myself, okay, maybe, he thinks MW is so tired living for such a long time. “You want to rest and have peace now? You can come with me. It will be good to go together. Isn’t that sweet? I’ve loved you for 1300 years.” 🙃
But my question is, “Is he really that insensible?” 🤔
Because I only viewed his actions as selfish but now I’m also wondering if he’s a totally unaware jerk. Without a doubt, he’s in love with MW but his common sense is so questionable. If the ending scene in Episode 14 really turned out like it appeared to be, that he’s trying to tempt MW to go with him, I think his character would be the only second lead male that I ever hated in a KDrama. So I hope he meant it when he said “It’s the end for us.” And that his hand signal meant “Off you go. Go back to CS now.” (.01% chance)
I could only wish his way of thinking goes like…
“I’m fine now. MW is finally happy again. That’s what matters most to me. After having a life of hell for so long, she can now have a piece of heaven with CS by her side. She has found a love that is pure and brave. She has become a new moon, a kind moon, a happy moon, a loving moon. Even if their situation is unusual and there’s a high risk that it will be cut short, it’s still best that she gets the most out of it while they’re both alive. They better share as many beautiful memories in this world while they can. I need to go now. For good. Just me. Alone.” 😏
But some of you guys here noted how dim witted he was and the clear proof of that was his lack of preparation over the whole situation in the past which then led to the loss of so many lives. And I totally agree. The plot wanted us to sympathize with him for he was just cornered and left with no other choice. I think it’s @pm3 who said he crossed the boundaries despite knowing he and MW were on the opposite sides of the law. Yeah. If he dared to be that bold, he must at least have a contingency plan. But crazily, he was so unprepared. What a fool! 🙄
Now I’m ranting again. Bwesit! 😤
@sph_7 Yes, I read you on DB and laughed. I’d really like to know if hotel name was just a mistake on the writers’ part (seems unlikely) or on purpose … which then gets me wanting to know the reason why.
@Storm Moon LOL… somehow I thought my rant should have divested you of the need to rant as well, but I see you’ve written yourself into a rant after all!
The stupidity of CM and the cupidity of MW might have done for a title – obviously a twosome who should go their separate ways! However no one would have wanted to watch a show named in this way. 😆 😂
= = =
Something else I just read on DB by @OldLawyer: “…
To me the more important piece of symbolism in this episode is when Ma-go implants the last moontree flowers into Chan-sung’s chest. The Moontree flowers now live on in his heart says Ma-go- so the tree itself cannot be dead. That has created a deep connection between Chan-sung and Man-wol. That is why, when Chan-sung breaks down and cries in anguish at the thought that Man-wol may not return to him she stops walking across the bridge- and turns back, leaving Chung-myun behind. She may not remember Chan-sung at this moment, but his heart can still call to her. Nor does she need to be possessed by a ghost to be guided back- Chan-sung’s heart is guiding her just s a lighthouse guides a ship in from the sea.” – Such a nice thought!!! 😌
@GB, thanks for posting Old Lawyers thoughts, I love it if it’s true, and fits with my prediction based on myth in a slant way. I’ve always felt he would bring her back with the golden bough, but thought maybe the HS already used that plot vaguely and anticlimactically when he went after her once already. But it would be a great twist if he doesn’t physically but emotionally brings her back because of the bough connection. I hope that’s it.
See, this story keeps hooking me, not because of the love story (I’m not particularly emotionally connected except to the Yeon Woo/MW love/family/friend relationship), and in spite of the plot holes, because the writers are really so damned clever.
@Barbrey: I’m fine with plot holes and bad acting, but if it’s dramatic and sad I don’t think I can handle it lol. It’s a miracle I’m even watching HDL as it has many things I avoid (horror, angst, sad themes, wild jumps in mood and tone, bittersweet love stories, etc.) – I don’t watch much of anything, much less Kdramas, and when I do I prefer stuff that is relatively fluffy and relaxed (though not vapid – people, especially those in the West, often confuse fluffy and relaxed with that). Pulling on older mythology, though, is always nice if done right and lends undertones of gravitas to things, and it certainly has been for HDL.
I do agree that despite the plot holes and issues, and despite HDL not being my usual thing, I’m hooked too. I do like CS and MW’s relationship, but besides that, the story has been clever and thoughtful at times. For me as a writer, looking at what it’s done right has been delightful, especially the tight writing, nice use of parallelisms and symbolism, and so on (other than some fuckups like the first half of episode 14).
As an aside, the Kdrama to.jenny, if anyone’s watched that, is probably the closest to my ideal story: thoughtful if you look carefully, but fairly light and sweet (the male lead reminds me of a CS with less courage and leadership).
@Storm Moon: I was annoyed at the Captain holding his arm out too – I thought he let go of his feelings too and moved on! The least negative interpretation of that I can think of is that he’s forgotting all that’s happened, and thought MW was also moving onto the afterlife as well and just wanted to offer a hand to help her continue that process, which would fit if you see him as kind of a dumbass than genuinely malevolent.
@GB: I hadn’t thought of the possibility that MW turned back when CS was crying – I just thought we don’t know “when” that scene with MW and CM on the bridge happened since it’s in some other dimension – but that makes more sense now if CS is a “lighthouse” for MW. It would make sense if that’s how MW returns and perhaps our ray of hope for a happy ending.
@Barbrey, I still hope to see that golden bough played out either literally, figuratively or emotionally. True about the hook being the clever writing. That’s what’s keeping us here and having stuff to say. Show has been a real exercise in honing my observation skills and trying to catch every metaphor, parallel and foreshadowing LOL. Too funny and fun!
@The Scholar-gentry … Me too and I really should go and re-watch and see if that’s what @Oldlawyer means exactly. Since I can’t get Ep 15 yet (I think it’s airing now), I might just do that!