WEnchanteur said:
I liked that final hug scene. The emotion was there.
I haven’t analyzed why, but the last part of your article gives clues.
Reading a few comments on another site, viewers were disappointed, because the sentimental story didn’t seem natural, too fast. So why does this scene give me emotion, others don’t?
The audience got used to standardised romances, “slow burn”. Maybe that’s what’s unnatural. Or maybe it doesn’t fit the personality of TKEM’s characters.
Thanks for letting me know WEnchanteur that there was dissatisfaction among viewers that the writer didn’t write a “slow-burn” for the couple.
I’m not KES but here’s my simple explanation why I thought it was ILLOGICAL to expect a slow-burn for the couple.
They’ve met before.
A “slow-burn” only works for a couple meeting and falling in love for the first time. But Lee Gon and TaeEul have met and loved each other for — gosh! — who knows how long.
You see, if Lee Gon had gone back in time (one time, two times, three times,…)
to rescue himself and to find her (one time, two times, three times,…)
wouldn’t it be logical that TaeEul met him in all those times and re-lived the same cycle together with him (one time, two times, three times,…)?
🙂
LG has always been constant. He hasn’t changed women. Without exception, it’s been Lieutenant Jeong TaeEul. Regardless of how many number of times he’ll go back to the past (or future), Lee Gon, the ETERNAL King, will search for her.
Since LG keeps on looking for her, he’s bound to leave an impression. She won’t remember everything, true, because she kept zero keepsake. But in time, her unconscious mind will have a “residual” memory of him. She’ll sense déjà vu in their first encounter.
However, she’s a skeptic. She’s a self-avowed flat-earther. She doesn’t believe in science unless she can see and prove it to herself. So, despite recognizing him subconsciously, she’s going to reject any intimations of being familiar with him and dismiss such feelings as her delusions.
Look at the first encounter. To me, there were three hints that she recognized him albeit unconsciously.
One, she backed away from Lee Gon when he strode towards her. lol.
We’re talking about Lieutenant Jeong TaeEul here. She’s no shrinking violet.
I reviewed all the other times she confronted criminals and I saw that she never ceded ground. When facing a suspect, her body maintained an upright stance or her “ready stance.” She was prepared to drop a kick or punch a face. Even when she was young and facing ShinJae’s bullies, she never BACKED AWAY.
But she didn’t do that with Lee Gon.
In their first encounter, when he was coming fast at her, she actually leaned back as if she was shying away from a physical contact with him.
In fact. somebody here in this blog commented about her “passive” stance. She was a veteran cop who often took down violent offenders, so why didn’t she push LG away when he pulled her in for an embrace? Or kick him in the groin.
Then, he pulled her in his arms for a tight embrace. She looked shocked. She allowed herself to be hugged for a moment.
Then, she pushed him away.
At first, I thought she was merely caught off-guard. She was taken aback at the sight of him striding purposely towards. But then, in Episode 2, she did it again: she avoided him. He took a step and entered her Personal Space, and she leaned back, and rotated her face away from him. Then she sighed and moved her head to meet his eye.
😂😂😂
I realized then what she was unconsciously avoiding. Can you guess? Here look at the screenshots.
Both times, she thought Lee Gon was going to KISS her. 💋💋
That’s why at their first meeting she leaned back, instead of kicking him in the groin like she would have done to any other stranger. She was unconsciously avoiding his kiss. 💋
Then in Episode 2, when he stepped in closer to her, she again expected him to kiss her so she moved her lips where he couldn’t reach them. 💋 To the side. When she realized that it was awkward to converse with him with her head tilted like that, she faced him. Actually…she braved *IT* by tilting her head up.
Do you see it now?
But why was she expecting a kiss? From a “stranger”? lol.
The second hint was her fiddling with her hair. I previously said that Lee Gon confirmed it was her when she tossed her hair back and tied it in a careless pony tail. She looked like the girl in the ID then.
To me, the action of tying her hair back was her unconscious response to his presence. To me, her body was acknowledging him although her brains couldn’t recognize him.
She tied her hair whenever she was exasperated with him.
She was upset that he was spouting nonsense about parallel worlds.
LG: It looks like you don’t understand what a prallel world is. Did you not study science? (This is where the “Liberal Arts” digs first entered the conversation.)
TE: Who is this half-crazy bastard?
LG: Is this what your personality is like?
TE: Yes. My personality has been like this for about 30 years now. (and she tied her hair.)
Then, at the police station, Lee Gon refused to answer her questions. She was upset because her investigation wasn’t going anywhere. Thanks to Lee Gon. /sarcasm
Then, later that at night at the lobby of his hotel, she again tied her hair. This time she was upset because LG temporarily stabled Lady Maximus at her courtyard without informing her.
Pulling her hair back in a ponytail is her unconscious response whenever she was exasperated with him. You could call it a self-calming or a self-soothing trick. Of course, she wasn’t aware that she did it. Lee Gon noticed her quirk and told her stop. She of course defied him and snapped her pony tail place.
But at the park she was in good mood. He arrived so he could stay and watch the car.
This was when time stopped and he was able to study her face for a long moment.
To me, her unconscious habit of tying her hair in a ponytail whenever he came near her is a behavior acquired from a previous lifetime that she was unconsciously repeating in the next cycle.
Look: When he wasn’t around, she didn’t need to tie her hair back. She typically wore her hair down.
Example one: in Episode 4, when he returned for the first time. It was November 11. Hair down.
Example two: Episode 7, when he returned to bring Jo Young with him. Her hair was down.
To me, her 1) odd kiss-avoidance and 2) her self-soothing ponytail are signs that she knew Lee Gon.
And now for the third hint.
They stared at each other in the police station. (At 18:36)
TE: Do you know me?
LG: I was curious about you, and I thought about you a lot. YOu also look better in real life. That young man is the Captain of the Royal Guards in my world. Some people don’t exist in both worlds, like you and me.
TE: So is this a parallel world? Prove it.
LG: The proof is right in front of you. I came from the other world.
And then they stared at each other.
TE: Why…do you look at me like that?
LG: How else should you look at you?
TE: Make sure they don’t give me the wrong idea. Right now, your eyes are those of a criminal. A petty criminal.
To me, TaeEul lost her train of thought.
After LG finished explaining that he was from another world, it should have been TE’s turn to parry or to debunk his assertion. But she stopped. She just stopped and stared into his eyes.
And she lost her train of thought.
People say that eyes are windows of the soul. And I’d like to think that, for a brief moment, what she saw in his eyes left her dazed and confused. So she asked why he was looking at her.
I think the expression of HER face is more remarkable than the expression on his.
Then she went on offense: she accused him of looking at her with criminal intent. Ha!! I doubt she saw that in his eyes. Lee Gon looked sincere, not scheming. Besides, she would have been frowning back at him if she really thought he was up to no good. I think she was only upset with herself for almost falling for his sincerity. She was almost tempted to believe in him but snapped out of it quickly.
So there you go.
Her physical shyness, her fussing with her hair, and her refusal to fall for his charms are signs to me that she unconsciously remembers him. She’s done all these before. There’s already a link between them formed by the repetition of their life cycle. They’re simply carrying on where they have left off in the last cycle.
I once compared the lives of TaeEul and Lee Gon to a scratched vinyl record of a phonograph. When the vinyl record is damaged by a scratch, the phonograph needle gets stuck in the same place and repeats the loop over and over again. The listener of the record music has to manually pick up the needle and replace it on the vinyl record PAST the damaged track for the music to continue.
That’s what LG has to do. Since he’s stuck, he’ll have to “unstuck” his metaphorical needle in order to continue a life with TaeEul. He needs to JUMP over that break in the track that makes him repeat history.
So no, a slow-burn wouldn’t make sense. It would be redundant in my opinion. 🙂
I like your explanation. I re-watched parts of the first 3 episodes last night. LG said he knew Tae-Eul and had a photo of her for a long time. I thought, why, if she thinks he’s crazy, would she have anything at all to do with him, much less walk into empty woods in his company? She calls him crazy and a weirdo, but she feeds him and lets him keep his horse in her backyard when she could have insisted that the horse go to a proper stable. Instead of eating with Shin-Jae and Eun-Sup, after remembering his query about his existence in her world, she retraces her steps. She returns to him.
It didn’t make sense to me weeks ago when I first saw it. Thank you for putting this into words, @packmule3.
I saw about the ratings in Korea and the new director. I believe that this plot is hard work for most of us, so am grateful for this forum. I think that WEnchanteur was right about the plot being too crowded. A clear hint of a time-travel element may have been introduced too late for people to accept what might seem to be illogical behaviour.
I’ve always wondered why she would tie her her during those first two episodes and now I understand. I thought it was just a way for us and LG to be reminded about her ID card exactly with her hair tied up but I was wrong.
I loved those vinyls before while growing up. I was always the one to put it in for Dad or for the music that I liked.
Thank you. ☺️
@agdr03, I thought she was pulling her hair back as an “enough of this nonsense” move. 😊 I do it for that reason. She did it when she and Sin-Jae were getting down to the business of fighting the gang. But @pm3 has a point. She doesn’t wear her hair in some police scenes when I would expect it.
I didn’t want to mention it, but a woman posing with her elbows up and hands behind her head is a classic cheesecake pose. Perhaps subconsciously on Tae-Eul’s part? LG certainly appreciated the opportunity to look carefully. 😉🍰
I loved this post, @packmule3. Explains so much about how LG and TE grew close so quickly and why the progression of their relationship felt so natural.
I never realized the significance of those hair tying scenes of TE’s.
Now I’ll need to go back and watch those episodes again, like @Fern😊
Now I’ll be nodding unconsciously every time I discover something that you have pointed out on this blog😝
That too @Fern, 😊 personally if I’m a policewoman, I’d never late my hair down unless it’s unofficial business 😄 Is just be irritated with my hair going everywhere.
I learned another thing today, a cheesecake pose. ☺️ It was a beautiful shot when TE did that when the time stopped.
@agdr03, cheesecake is a retro sort of expression. I first heard it when describing the sort of pin-ups and calendar girls seen in the early mid-1900s. It is suggestive, but quite chaste compared to the current era.
Hmm certainly didn’t work for Hubby whenever I tied my hair 😉😂 I’ve never heard it before so I’ll remember that. Thanks 😊
Wrong post, but the words above made me reflect.
“Right now, your eyes are those of a criminal. A petty criminal.” This may end up being one of those balancing items. Someone may say this to Tae-Eul if she is mistaken for Luna in the KoC. I only hope that Tae-Eul keeps her hairstyle! She could cut her hair, but Luna can’t naturally grow hers.
@agdr03, maybe you have to do it really, really slowly. 😉🤣🤣🤣 Or un-do it really, really slowly. Even better.
Ayaaa. Why do I like this scene so stupidly?
To see the heroine crashing in slow motion against the hero’s shoulder, certainly! 😀
“Suddenly, in the street, a stranger gives you a hug.” Ah ah!
During the hug scene, she does a fish-eye, by the way. 😉
When LG approaches, I don’t think she’ll kick him.
But she should at least have a professional reaction.
More than that, she should have a high level martial arts practitioner reaction. 4th Dan is huge. At this level, the reflexes are so ingrained that any reaction is immediate, instinctive, and properly executed.
In his case: it means a step slid backwards, without losing balance.
So, standing still and leaning backwards is the exact least plausible movement. Exactly what it takes to get pushed or hit by a suspect. There’s no way she’d let herself get caught for a hug, either.
So far, I’ve found that despite my regular complaints about the story, one thing is impeccable: there are no logical errors in the script. And maybe no inconsistencies in the story in general, we’ll see when it’s finished. In previous comments, I had been surprised by the care given to logical details.
As TE’s reaction is illogical in this scene, there is reason to suspect that indeed, it is desired, that it makes sense.
What conclusion can be drawn from this: I don’t know.
I note the anomaly, and I expect to be surprised when the story comes to the point where it makes sense.
The other reason why the story can’t be slow burn, but it’s more of a script imperative. It’s a story that has to set aside most of the time for plot development. In this context, it is hardly possible to tell a slow burn. But all this is a perfect tangle, and the sentimental story becomes perfectly coherent with the rest.
Too slow is too much effort, I’ll just leave it 😂
🙂 How’s the Chinese drama coming along?
🙂
Were you the one, Phoenix, who asked about Arthur and the book? I’m working on that, too.
I’ve a few posts on queue for today. 🙂
Wow! You’re a psychic 😆 because I’m watching it now. I’m on episode 3, so far so good. ☺️
GRRRRRRRRrrRRRRRR, agdr03! 🙂
I’m not psychic. Watch it, I’ll get you for that one day.
But kidding aside, is it good? Just post your review on the Open Thread so I can follow your “breadcrumbs” later.
Where’s a ducking for cover emoji? 🤔😜 I’m just teasing you. 😄
Yeah I’ll post there soon, I’m just trying to watch more episodes. The thing with this drama is it’s pretty straight forward, so forward to the point where the FL can just jump on the back of the ML because she was happy that he gave her another chance to work. 😂
I’m still trying to familiarise the names, as usual. 😬
@packmule3 No, I didn’t but I had the question about references to Kimg Arthur too. Not only is LG called Kimg Arthur by ES, he also has an Excalibur like sword. I don’t think that’s simply a coincidence, is it? Will wait for your post😊
Am laughing hard imagining a bunch of us doing this! And all because of a Kdrama!
@mychoiyoung, you’re more than welcome to try it and just update us if it works. 😂
Which Chinese drama are you watching, @agdr03? My problem with C-dramas is that they are just too long to sustain my interest. I started Dr.Cutie too but left it as I got distracted by some other drama. 32+ episodes is too much for me and I lose steam mid way 🙄 Love O2O was the solitary exception I made and we all know why😜😜
Am thinking the same thing.
I also think the production house made a mistake marketing this as a romantic drama…
@mychoiyoung I too was imagining of us all trying to tie up our hair in very very slow motion..lol..in cheesecake pose, according to @Feen🤣🤣
*@Fern
I too learned a new word 😝
Yes, I agree Phoenix
There’s King Arthur.
Excalibur
Launcelot
and Guinevere
And the lake.
@Phoenix, it’s Love Is All. @pm3 has an open thread for it here already. It’s only 26 episodes, Dr Cutie was 27 if I’m not mistaken. It’s on YouTube and Viki. I’m watching it now because I just want to take it easy and I guess my priority for now is TK:EM and HP. This cdrama is very easy to watch and I find the couple here cute together too. ☺️
@Phoenix, it is only one of many cheesecake poses. Dear oh dear. This could result in younger siblings, like Eun-Sup. What would they be called: Cheesecakians? Monarchials?
Cheesecakians? Monarchials?
😂 Good words there but it has to be cheesecakians. 💁🏻♀️
Yo! @agdr03, I second Cheesecakians too🙌🙌
Let’s form another club, because why not?😝😝😝
The Cheesecakian Club🙆♀️🙆♀️🙆♀️
Aah @packmule3 I was thinling of silent lovelorn SJ as Lancelot too. And TE is Guinevere?
Is there a lake too? Where? In that land between 0 and 1? So we are comparing LG’s mission to defeat LL to an Arthurian quest? Will wait for your post🙏
Please leave me out of this! 😝😝😝 🙆♀️ 🌋 👨👩👧👦👨👦👨👦👨👦👨👦
Thanks @agdr03 Will also check our Love is All after I finish Dr.Cutie after our TK:EM is over..whew!! So many dramas to watch and so little time😥😥
Yo! @Phoenix! High five 🙌🏻
I’m cracking up here 😂😂😂 how many fan clubs are we gonna make here?
Xiao Nai
Maximus
Cheesecakians
So funny 😂
Lol…Why @Fern? You coined that word😎🙆♀️ 🤣🤣
@packmule3 is fed up of us forming these weird clubs here 😂😂🤣🤣
Ref Arthur; the once and future king. I just saw this on Wiki among many other theories: “An alternative theory, which has gained only limited acceptance among professional scholars, derives the name Arthur from Arcturus, the brightest star in the constellation Boötes, near Ursa Major or the Great Bear.[38] Classical Latin Arcturus would also have become Art(h)ur when borrowed into Welsh, and its brightness and position in the sky led people to regard it as the “guardian of the bear” (which is the meaning of the name in Ancient Greek) and the “leader” of the other stars in Boötes.[39]”
Bright; shall I shoot down a star for you?; bear. Nice coincidences.
Are you familiar with the Welsh accent? It is very melodic with lots of ups and downs in pitch. I thought of it when listening to Eun-Sup’s satoori in relation to standard Korean.
@packmule3 I get your idea and I think it is very beautiful.
But I have a question: I get the idea that TE does not remember they have met before, but how about LG? Does he remember?
Love to know what do you think!
I’m working on something. But YOU tell me what you think.
From Ep 2, when they were talking while eating chicken.
LG: Why do you never believe anything I say?
TE: Is that how belief works? Am I supposed to believe nonsense just like that? I’m the type of person who still can’t believe the world is round. But a parallel universe? Pre-meal bakery? Stop your nonsense and eat before it gets cold. Just do one thing before we get your DNA test result. Do nothing.
LG: If you don’t believe me, why do you help me? Is this some kind of a sense of duty?
TE: You need that (a sense of duty) only when you have to save the country.
LG: (insisting) Then why?
TE: There’s no reason! I just do it. I’m a police office of the Republic of Korea.
LG: (persisting) Anything else? Is there any other reason? The reason why I have to stay in your world? Could there be a reason?
What do you think LG meant by that? 🙂 He’s correct, you know, in demanding to know the reason for TE’s altruism.
Why do you think he persists on asking that question?
@packmule3 you’re pretty amazing!
It just hit me that when time stopped at the park and LG looked at TE from a few cm away, that was basically what he had been doing for 25 years but this time with the real person, not the photo. Dreams come true, I guess.
I think we have stablished the time loop hypothesis as a theory. Now the question is: This is attempt number…? Could it be attempt 17, since they keep repeating that number?
“I definitely hope it’s not attempt 16890 😂
By the way, I was one the people who asked for the King Arthur reference so I’m dying to read your post about it.
“Why do you think he persists on asking that question?” @packmule3, yes, he has perceived her inconsistency in her treatment of him. The insistence is him prompting her for her consciousness, in the same way a psychologist might prompt a patient to explore a topic. I can only think that he has a more complete memory or impression than she does or is somehow more in touch with his subconscious. I don’t think that he has complete recall and therefore wants her side of the equation as well.
Later he berates himself for focusing on the beauty rather than on the problem of his uncle as a reason for his existing there.
@packmule3
I would say half-half(not the chicken)
LG told the truth from the very beginning. If it were me to get myself into the parallel world, I might hide my identity until I feel safe. But somehow, it seems that he determined to reveal himself from the very beginning. In fact it is the best way to earn TE’s trust. And, yes, he keeps telling TE that all the evidence is on the table, just have a look!
It does look like he had calculated every movement he took.
But on the other hand, LG seems surprised by many things too. For example, time-stopping, LL might be alive, what the flute is capable. Also in the police station, LG said that TE looks better in real life, which means he thought that was the first time they have met. And he checked if SJ were his savior.
The dialogue in the fried chicken restaurant confused me a lot, too. It does sound LG was saying to TE “you know me, don’t you?”
My theory “WAS” TE’s mother came from a parallel world, too. TE somehow has that kind of idea, but she was small, so she just keeps these things deep in her heart. Now when LG came from nowhere claiming he is from the parallel world drew her attention. Also, the reason she decides to be brave and to be a detective is to figure out what happen to her mother.
So back to the question, if LG remember? I would say he does not. It would be too sad if he remembers and knows he is trapped in the time loops.(sorry no theory here)
King Arthur’s book. It’s a visually striking detail.
Since I’ve memorized the drama very poorly so far, I wouldn’t be able to say much.
It’s a scene from episode 8, and the reference may be more explicable afterwards.
It’s not necessarily a strong, complicated reference, just an allusion.
The cover of the book shows a sword, and there’s the word “King”. Intuitively, I think those are the two key elements of the reference. I’m targeting something simple, something that any viewer can detect and understand easily, knowing a little bit about the legend of King Arthur. Because otherwise there are really too many possibilities. My feeling is that it has nothing to do with Lancelot, Guinevere, etc. I think it’s a bit too much to do with the legend of King Arthur. Maybe the round table at the limit.
So it’s about King LG, and how he gets his sword.
To put it in parallel with King Arthur and Excalibur, and the sense there is in the story, when Arthur takes excalibur off the stone. What is the meaning of the sword in the story, how it makes Arthur a king, how the sword helps the King in his reign. I have read a book about this, but it was a long time ago (the saga of the writer Marion Zimmer Bradley). It’s also a story that has had many different books and versions, sometimes old. So there again, the reference should be explained by what is most emblematic, the main and common meaning of all these stories.
This gives a clue to the importance of the sword in the story, whereas until now, the flute seemed to be the most important object. I vaguely remember Packmule3 talking about this in an article.
Other clues include the context of the scene, what’s before and after (the meeting with Luna). There are also papers hanging on the wall in the background. But these details may just be false leads. I don’t see the point, apart from a little hidden joke from the writer or the director.
@agdr03 and @Phoenix, here’s another word for you: beefcake. It’s the male version of cheesecake. Think fan service shower scene… although I believe beefcake is mostly used to describe still photo poses.
Ahjummas on Shallow Island know it when they see it.
“ What do you think LG meant by that? 🙂 He’s correct, you know, in demanding to know the reason for TE’s altruism.
Why do you think he persists on asking that question?”
I have changed my view about the romance being “too fast”, given the new information that he’s probably known her (and she him) for a thousand lifetimes over. I think he’s trying to get her to “remember”. To trust her gut feel that there’s something more than just what’s before her. That there is a possibility that they had been lovers in times past and she’s responding the way she is subconsciously (by trusting him and helping him) even though her head won’t admit it. It does however require a “leap of faith” for a flat-earther though. She took that first step of “faith” in following him to his world. She gave him a chance to show her his world. I watched a clip of the Imaginary Flower seed scene in no-man’s land. She planted the seeds there yeah? Despite LG telling her nothing grows there. It required a leap of faith on her part? I don’t think it mattered what the seeds actually were. It was the physical act of planting that was important. It was the act of planting a seed (an act of faith) and willing it to grow (belief) in spite of the facts (nothing grows here). Proustian moment to remember all that has happened in the past between them maybe? For TE, it is what will change her perspective of what’s “real” and what’s not. Confronted by things that “don’t make sense” in her Flat-Earth dictionary, she will have to start adding new words into that lexicon. I think she will need those words and change of belief system if she is to presumably rescue him in future. It would require that she believe he can “come back from the dead” (speculation). She’s like doubting Thomas (from the Bible) who cried out to Jesus, “I believe, help Thou my unbelief”. Faith is not the total absence of doubt but it is believing/trusting in spite of it. Sorry for rambling. 😂
Thanks @Welmaris! Another new term today. 🙂 I agree with the shower scenes because that shows a lot of muscles. heheheh
This is what google said about beefcake.
Search Results
Dictionary
Search for a word
beefcake
/ˈbiːfkeɪk/
Learn to pronounce
nounINFORMAL
attractive men with well-developed muscles.
JTE [in her head]: “It took me a long time to realize this. When it’s fate, there are no coincidences. Your fate is determined by the choices you make, but there are times when your fate chooses you … Things that are bound to happen are taking place even at this moment. I was struck with a sad premonition that this will be short-lived, but I decided to love my fate that chose me.”
JTE: I love you.
.
.
.
LG: Ditto.
LOL.
First, my bad about the double post. Second, I know this post is about LG & JTE, but I’m more interested in the secondary romance. Who’s getting KOC and who’s getting ROK’d?
Jo Young vs Myung Seung-A (KOC)
Jo Eun-Sup vs Myung Na-Ri (ROK)
In both cases, it seems like MSA & MNR are interested in their respective male counterparts. However, the prized partner is different. JY is handsome and leads the Royal Guard that protects The King. Nari is a business owner that seems have a fleet of super cars at her disposal.
Who ends up with whom? And which couple ends in tragedy? Couple doppelgangers kill each other, right?
@Welmaris Thank you for that word😊 I didn’t know that one too, @agdr03🙌
So when we see WDH under the Waterfall of Shallowness, we can exclaim in a very shallow way, “What a beefcake!!!”😍😍😍
I’m not so sure now if I would prefer to be a cheesecakian or a beefcakian 😝😝
@John L 😂👍. LG said “Na Do” which I think translates better as “Me Too”. Ditto works too but sounds too flippant? But I like what you wrote about what’s running through her head…
Beefcake. So that’s on the menu? I must hustle over to Shallow Island for a bite or two. Doc did mention that my iron levels were a tad on the low side and I need replenishment. One cannot survive on a diet of Carrot and Wheatgrass Juice (courtesy of Maximus).
Lol @nrllee: Come on over for a quick visit to Shallow Island anytime..iron deficiencies should not be neglected 🙌
I think @packmule3 likes LG a little too, though she is still on Cynical Island 😝
Agree.
Who in the heck says, “Ditto” as a response to “I love you?”
You’re already down to three words I + Love + You = 3 little words
and you still want to shorten it to “Ditto” = 1 word???
If a guy’s too lazy to express “I love you, ” then he probably doesn’t love her anyway.
“Me, too” is how normal people would say it.
Or “Love you more.”
Maybe he was just listening to her instruction, no cheesy line while I’m hungry. So the least cheesy response, ditto!
Wow this post is making me rethink my own criticism of the execution of the romance. Thanks Packmule!
I don’t know about John, but I’m making fun of the subber.
LG said “nado” and it’s conventionally translated as “me too.” (Even google translate says, “me too.”)
But this subber decided to be high-falutin’ and wrote “Ditto.” Like who does that? Weirdo. 🙂
I’ll give LG a break bc he just started dating 🤣
I like your take on this. But if the current Lee Gon, who remembers everything and does the time loop, he will still be living a lonely life in his time space. While the child Lee Gon will grow up and find Tae Eul again. So what happens to the current Lee Gon? Become the great and lonely goblin? And then the child Lee Gon grows up and does his time loop. So how many time loops exist?
The subber also messed up on the air/wind presence in the in-between place. Now everyone’s making fun of it that how can they breathe there if theres no air.
Whether the Netflix subber fu with the translation with “Ditto” or that the correct translation is “Me, too”, my take on LG’s “Me, too” was he was humoring or flirting with TE.
You reap what you sow, right? Cos during the date in the chicken house, LG was being all romantic when he was saying he would like to talk to her on the phone more, he misses her, etc,… and TE’s reply “Me, too”
TE could not give back a proper response cos the waiter is already coming with that humongous chicken platter! On a side note – do they ever finish that?
I have a question. That part isn’t covered in your article here but still. Why do you think Jeong Tae-eul is being so detached in her interactions with him even after her visit to the Kingdom and when we know what shes thinking. She seems to have developed feelings for him. Why not kiss him back, give a more whole-hearted confession. The hug at the end of Episode 6 was convincing, but not the rest. I get that her character is also like that. But I’m just not understanding what makes him different to her than someone like Shin-jae. She does actually have better chemistry with him, and clearly has affection for Shin-jae too. I get the reasoning for why shes warmed up to and started liking Lee Gon. Also the placing of scenes is an issue. Or maybe not. I don’t know at this point. It’s just that her confession seems more like shes given in to fate and shes just so nonchalant in that confession scene. Even if they are going through the millionth time loop, she doesn’t know it and shes still feeling it like it’s the first time right? So why so detached?
Sorry for the extremely long question.
“Jo Young vs Myung Seung-A (KOC)
Jo Eun-Sup vs Myung Na-Ri (ROK)” @John.
I’m not certain about their history, but I don’t think Na-Ri is really interested in Eun-Sup. She was too surprised to see ‘him’ with his hair done and dressed well. (funeral, ha, and not standing out in a crowd?) I think she falls into the mentioned group of people who have never considered that Eun-Sup handsome and if they did, they mightn’t say so (sort of brother/friend-zoned) despite their obvious affection for his sunny personality. So Jo Young may be a catalyst for a perception change with Eun-Sup, both for himself and for others.
I really liked the scene when JY asked Eun-Sup about Na-Ri. JY used his visual memory of Seung-Ah rather than Na-Ri to describe her, so it’s safe to say JY is on his way to losing his heart in KoC.💞 Then it didn’t take even a fraction of a split second for Eun-Sup to say ‘Na-ri’. JY persisted adding the super car. ‘Myeong Na-ri’. “Do you have a crush on her?” “Who wouldn’t?”
So what will happen JY meets Na-Ri again? I said earlier that both women would prefer JY at this point because he’s handsome, cool and charismatic. Love 📐. Unless Eun-Sup shows some further quality beyond an ability to fold laundry without whinging, of course. I hope he does.
@packmule3
Thanks for this thread, all the comments have been really thought-provoking. What a gold mine this blog is for helping us viewers understand and appreciate TKEM more. 🙂
I just wanted to add that yes, LG and TE don’t have a slow-burn romance. When TE said (in her head) that “It took me a long time to realize this. When it’s fate, there are no coincidences. Your fate is determined by the choices you make, but there are times when your fate chooses you … Things that are bound to happen are taking place even at this moment. I was struck with a sad premonition that this will be short-lived, but I decided to love my fate that chose me.”
“LOVE MY FATE that chose ME” was an affirmation to love LG (her fate). This is similar to the Latin expression Amor Fati — a love of fate. It is embracing everything about one’s fate that one has no control over but in losing control, one gains control of his/her self and actions.
When she said “I love you” and not “I like you”, it was a telling sign that she had thought about things and realized that the only way to survive the reality she was in and be better for it, was to embrace the fate that chose her.
Their meeting was not a coincidence, it was destiny. CLOY feels. 🙂
Also to answer why LG persisted in asking “Anything else? Is there any other reason? The reason why I have to stay in your world? Could there be a reason?”, I think he wanted to push her buttons and make her realize that fate is the reason why he has to stay. Just as LG is TE’s fate, TE is LG’s fate. A line in ep. 9’s preview says “You’re chasing your destiny, aren’t you?” — I think this was meant for LG and his pursuit to move through time and space just to be with TE in this lifetime.
@Dewdrop, yes, as confessions go, it was very laid back. Even LG was having a hard time digesting it (from 2 meters away). I can only think that if she was more interactive she would never make it to that stakeout.😉
I know that she had the feeling whilst in KoC, after seeing the PM and knowing that she wasn’t a part of that world, that she was the wrong person for him. That’s what I deduced when she said she would always lose out to anyone who was from there, despite his reassurances. Also when LG said that if she spent the night there, it would be in his bedroom. She didn’t show surprise, shock or any other emotion – I think because she was already planning to leave before then.
I think that the time that passed between that scene and LG’s return was important in her acceptance of her feelings. I think that their relationship will escalate quickly in the next episodes.
I get what you mean about her and her ‘friend-zoned’ Shin-Jae. He seems more compatible with her in a realistic way. If he survives, I wonder which world he will end up in, having a foot in both.
Not even friend-zpned. TE looks at SJ as a brother since their teens. Even in the real world, that is hard to overcome. Then you have The King as the rival? It may be more logical with SJ but with love and fate, how can you fight that?
Good points, kdramakat. 👍
🍪🍪
Bravo!! You got the conundrum of the time loop.
Will answer you on the blog.
Short answer (or at least MY short answer) is the “Red King’s Dream.”
@mychoiyoung, I forgot that she called him brother. You are right.
Thanks @Fern, @Packmule3 and @mychoiyoung,
How can I get the password to access the article? I will read everything before asking questions in case they repeat.
@Dewdrop
Yeah, I totally get you when you say that TE was so detached when she confessed and even @Fern mentioned it was totally laid back compared to other kdrama love confessions. I do know that it was completely her personality to suddenly change the topic not because she wanted to be flippant about it, but more because it was a statement of a “fact” that doesn’t need to be argued nor expounded. She was sure about herself, and about the way she felt. And….she had a stakeout. Hahaha!
There’s also the fact that LG has been absolutely honest about how he feels for her to the point of cheesiness. I think she didn’t want that kind of declaration given her no-nonsense attitude and I’ll-believe-it-when-I-see-it personality. Her “I love you” strikes me as more sincere because of this. 🙂
@Kdramakat, I agree with your idea that LG was honest with her to the point of cheesiness. He even said upon arrival in the KoC that he had imagined bringing her there many times. He’s had 25 years to think about her compared to a few meetings in a couple of months and a VERY long distance relationship for her. He was ready, waiting and willing to accept his fate, but she wasn’t, yet.
Once she was ready, she came straight to the point. It may have been a more viewer friendly scene if she didn’t have the stakeout. 😉 ⚡
This is my first post ever about a drama. My english is a little rusty but I hope a made myself clear if not let me know. I really like reading all your comments and analysis that make me want to participate.
After reading this post. I start thinking about Tea-ul reaction toward Lee Gon and the explanation I come up with is that “body memory” allow her to accept “fate”.
A read a lot about “body memory” and how the body remembers certain movement, person or feeling and not only the brain. It’s a physical reaction that you don’t notice. Same people call “gut feeling”, you’re attracted or repulsed by someone. The theory is that the body remember way earlier than the brain and unconsciously.
I’m not sure if someone mentioned before but I’m very intrigue with the scene in episode 4 when LR 27.15 visit the bookstore (NV). The book he pickup with the message is between a collection of Plato. If you see clearly that book doesn’t belong to the collection. How Plato is link to the story line? Any relevance? What do you think?
Yes. I think there’s a connection to Plato. However, let’s hear from other voices in this blog, okay?
I want others to have a say, too. Plus I’m sure you’re all getting sick and tired of my interpretation.
Episode 08.
I was also disappointed by the lack of emotion in the confession scene.
However, I also suspect a mistake that I made many times while watching the drama: the lack of attention.
So I revisited this scene from the beginning. I detected some new indications. For people who doubt the sincerity of the romance in the drama, this could be helpful. It’s up to you to make up your own mind. I am contenting to dissect, trying to speculate as little as possible, and without taking into account other correlations in the drama.
00:25:08
The scene starts with the beautiful background music on the piano, with a soft sound, a bit sad and nostalgic (yeah, this love story will end badly…). Now, I consider the appearance of this music as a strong scene indicator about the characters’ feelings.
LG – Eight minutes and forty seconds. I came down right away.
LG – Yeong wanted to follow me, so I–
Bing! LG starts to say something trivial and gets cut off abruptly by TE. You’re not the king here, my poor friend, and your girlfriend has no sense of protocol. ^^
Besides, she’d already caught you “declaring common courtesy” in the first-kiss scene. Ha ha! He’s gonna have to take his clothes off again…
TE – The very first time you came here, would you still have fallen for me, even if I had never helped you?
LG – I would’ve understood. And that understanding would’ve led me to fall for you.
TE – What if I was super rude to you? Still the same answer?
LG – (teasing) You were super rude. (serious smile) Yes, still the same answer.
TE – Why?
LG – Because you must’ve had your reason.
During the first part, it is a love confession from LG. Particularly deep lyrics reflecting unconditional love. Does it make sense to the audience? Unless you’ve been through it before, with difficulty. Otherwise, direct memories and feelings come to mind.
Did TE understand what he is saying? I don’t know, but even if she didn’t understand, she is definitely affected. She has proof of his commitment. Even without understanding, it’s the kind of statement whose real meaning is unconsciously perceived.
Immediately, voice-over.
TE ~ It took me a long time to realize this. There are no coincidences. Your fate is determined by the choices you make, but there are times when your fate chooses you.
This voice-over is “in the future” type and does not reflect TE’s thoughts during the scene. The first sentence indicates that she didn’t necessarily understand everything LG says. Then, that at the time of the scene, she doesn’t know that a true love always has this “weight of destiny” effect (there is no need for time loops, that’s how it is in real life). So this is the first time she encounters true love. Or at least, a love of this intensity, which often tends to fall quickly and violently. All this is not only compatible with the “anti slow-burn” romance, but also perfectly realistic and well rendered for a “fast” romance. Again, the viewer’s understanding may be challenged. It all depends on their personal experience.
LG – Why do you ask?
TE – In the beginning, you have to ask about everything. We just skipped too many things.
Here we notice that TE is involved much more than LG imagined. She has a pragmatic approach, like many women, she needs proof. LG has a man’s approach, he doesn’t need proof. He’s there, patient, until she’s won over and makes up her mind. Like any man, detecting the hidden messages of women’s language is not always easy. He doesn’t notice the meaning of the last sentence, which says it all.
TE – I have to go on a stakeout. I got to see you, so I’m off.
She’s talking about something else apparently. Technical problem: I can’t understand the translation. So to say what’s going on here. She seems to have something to do, and she has to go.
TE – Did something happen?
LG – No, not at all.
TE – It’s been a quiet, peaceful day. This is probably the most eventful moment of the day. You came to see me despite the traffic jam.
TE – I haven’t eaten yet, so I’m irritable now. I’m adding 1 more into the 17 rules. No cheesy comments when I’m hungry.
TE – Anyway, I’m glad everything is good. I’m off.
Here, I’m just taking the temperature of the scene. It looks like a conjugal scene of a couple already married. When the man comes home, the woman asks him “How was your day at work?”.
LG does a private joke that TE can’t understand. His day has not been quiet, as he has been involved in a street fight a few scenes before. Why isn’t he telling the truth? Huh? You know that, don’t you? Me, I don’t know. Maybe he doesn’t want her to worry about him. Or maybe he’s afraid to admit all the crap he’s created in a world that isn’t his own! For the viewer, this is a particularly funny dialogue. I smiled!
Then, voice-over from the future.
TE ~ Things that are bound to happen are taking place even at this moment.
TE ~ I was struck with a sad premonition that this will be short-lived, but I decided to love my fate that chose me.
TE is moving away from LG at the time of this sequence. We don’t know her thoughts, but…
First sentence: At the moment when TE thinks this, a serious threat will appear imminently.
Second sentence: As the sentence is in the past tense, this is the thought that TE has at the moment of the scene! Even if it was put in a voice-over from the future. So she has this thought when she walks away from LG to go to her car.
Meaning: she has no time to lose because she guesses that her love story will be short. Relate this to the previous dialogue “We just skipped too many things”. TE faces a dilemma. Living a love story that will be destroyed quickly. Should we start living it? Or should we run away from it for fear of suffering? Fate has decided that love has fallen on them, but she has a final wiggle room with this decision. The voice-over clearly indicates that she has chosen to experience this. Which naturally leads us to … Tadam …
(Intro to the song)
TE – I love you.
(Paf! start singing)
The spectator was expecting it instead: lovers running into each other’s arms. A long wet look exchanged. A maximum of rosewater. Something vibrant and passionate. A kiss. The whole thing. ^^
The scenario surprises everyone, including LG (see the rest of the scene)!
Why, how can such a declaration of love take place in a drama?! Scandal!
I think that during another scene, there will be an additional confession, more passionate, but here it is not the meaning in this scene.
– TE’s love hasn’t had time to grow yet, but she has the certainty that it’s present.
– The scene has been constructed in such a way that there is a physical distance between the characters. So it’s not a time for frolicking. Unless she’s running towards him, but why? While they were talking quietly. Besides, she has to go.
– Why is she saying it like that, cold? Because she had very little time to make up her mind. She just got proof that LG was serious on her side. She feels strongly that she has no time to waste. So, at the last minute, by the time she takes two steps to her car, she makes up her mind.
– Immediately decided, immediately said! Fuck violins and little angels in heaven. It’s too serious to be delayed, it’s urgent.
– The temperature of the scene: it’s not a languorous statement and it’s not meant to be one. Already because love is in its embryonic stage, she just knows it’s there. That’s the advantage with a drama heroine who manages to see into herself quickly. And it’s also a sense of urgency. LG needs to be warned and informed, as soon as possible, of what she’s feeling. But this is just the beginning.
In a classic story, often one of the two characters is unable to read its own feelings. And after a long and difficult journey comes the confession scene. The amount of repressed feelings is important, so the confession is directly passionate.
Here, the first confession (because I suspect there will be others, perhaps tragic) becomes this one according to the logic of the scene, combined with the personality of the heroine. Remember the “everyday life” atmosphere at the beginning of the scene, pragmatism. The story will evolve, the two lovers are now informed, everyday life now has its imperatives, like that of an ordinary couple.
TE – Yeong is in the hotel room, right?
LG – Hang on. I’m still mesmerized by what you said earlier.
LG – Yeong went out. He just walked by. Didn’t you see him?
LG – He has to… No. That’s not important. I mean, you just said–
TE – I told you he can’t go out. Find him and go back in.
LG – Jeong Tae-eul. Ditto. (Me too)
I’m having a hard time seeing this part. In just the temperature.
TE is taking the fall for her own statement. Her line smacks of restlessness, nervousness. Oops, I went too fast, let’s talk about something else now… Diversion. ^^
Nervousness and feverishness at LG. Difficult because let’s not forget that he is the King. Can he respect his standing? He tries at first, then messes up like a teenager. Good performance as an actor of Lee MinHo here. Like that, when he wants, he can!
In conclusion:
Can the audience understand? Even so, was it the best choice for this scene? Was it necessary to put this confession later, in another context? Or here, otherwise?
I don’t know at all !!!
It happened like that, I was first interested to know if this scene was coherent.
If it happened in episode 08, it was certainly impossible to place it later. Only the continuation of the drama will allow us to see more clearly. I think the strength of the characters’ feelings will evolve. It remains to be seen if the drama will show that, and with conviction. I’m betting on a later confession scene, much more intense. But I don’t have the prediction skills of Packmule3, so don’t count on me too much. 😀
Last thought.
It’s a good reference to know how a 4th dan Taekwondo heroine makes a love confession: high kick!
More seriously, the speed and simplicity of her confession also makes you think of her personality, several times in the drama. Remember the scene at the shooting range “Shoot before you look”. That’s what she did here. A spontaneous response. It doesn’t take a lot of thought, it’s like a combat reflex.
@WEnchanteur, bravo for both posts! Yes, it’s almost like the conversation went in reverse, the mundane conversation about the persistence of his love, how the day went and then the love declaration. Sort of like a back to front courtship and marriage. Well spotted.
Your site is again recommended at the soompi forum thread. So glad to be able to read more about your insights on The King. To be honest I thought I was the only one weirded out by Tae Eul’s reaction when LG walked towards her the first time they met. For a tough police officer that was really odd. Your thoughts on why she acted that way was hilarious. Can’t wait to see your take on the next two episodes.
Take a good look at the camel coat LG is wearing in the pictures @packmule3 posted here. There’s something going on with it.
In ep. 3 starting at time mark 46:58 we see LG wearing this coat. He has it on throughout the day while he:
-Drinks coffee at Hero Taekwondo Academy.
-Comes to help TE after her car breaks down.
-Experiences a time stop, during which he looks at TE putting up her hair in a ponytail.
-Drives to the bamboo grove in TE’s car and tests the appearance of the portal using his Manpasikjeok riding crop.
-Joins TE and SJ outside the murder victim’s hardware store, participates in the fight against the gang run by SJ’s schoolmate from high school.
-Is left walking behind TE and SJ, and gets offended when he’s not included in the ice cream treat.
-Joins TE and SJ for dinner.
-Says goodbye to TE.
-Is driven back to Maximus’s stall by SJ. SJ asks about the flower emblem on the horn of Maximus’s saddle.
Later, at time mark 1:07:22, we see LG standing by bookshelves in TE’s home. He’s wearing the blue velvet (now buttonless) riding jacket he wore when he arrived in ROK. He’s no longer wearing the camel coat. Perhaps he put it, and all the other clothes he bought while in ROK, in storage somewhere.
LG takes the book of selected poems of Kim So Wol off TE’s bookshelf. Then we see TE coming home from her grocery shopping trip with Na Ri; we know it is the same day LG said goodbye to her because she’s in the same clothes. She finds the stall in the yard empty; Lee Gon has gone back to KOC as he said he would. We see him leave ROK through the portal in the bamboo grove, wearing the blue buttonless riding jacket. Note that there’s no sign he’s carrying anything bulky with him back to KOC. Maximus hasn’t been fitted out with saddle bags.
Ep. 4, starting time mark 1:03:50. LG has come back to ROK and is waiting in TE’s yard with Maximus. LG is wearing a black coat. TE drives into the yard, she and LG talk, LG lifts TE onto Maximus, and together they ride to the bamboo grove and through the portal, arriving in KOC. LG is still wearing the black coat. Again, there’s no sign of Lady Maximus carrying anything other than LG and TE.
Ep. 6, starting time mark 26:12. It is later during the night LG picked up TE, who’d gotten herself stranded in KOC Seoul, and flew her back to Busan in his helicopter. The naval crisis between Corea and Japan has begun. HCL Noh is helping LG dress in his white uniform. They’re in LG’s wardrobe room. Directly behind them, on a mannequin form, is a camel coat. It is smack-dab in the center of the scene. It looks identical to the one LG was wearing his last day in ROK. What could this mean?
1) The set designer chose it at random. The director didn’t notice or didn’t care that it was in the middle of the scene. It doesn’t mean anything.
2) LG has two identical coats, one in KOC and ROK. Either he already had one in KOC and bought one like it in ROK, or he bought one in ROK and liked it enough to have another just like it tailored for him in KOC. The set designer and director have it in the center background during an important scene so we see LG is consistent in his choice of fashion. It means LG reeeaaally likes that coat.
3) Director wants us to notice the camel coat because it gives us an important clue, a sign of connection between the parallel worlds. It is the same coat, not just identical, in both worlds. LG has made another trip between the worlds, either as part of a time loop, or another visit in this timeline that we haven’t been shown.
I’m going with option 3.
I have screen catches, @Packmule3, if you want them.
How I have missed this blog post? Ladies your insights are amazing!
(I really enjoyed @packmule3 @nrllee @KdramaKat @Welmaris @Wenchanteur and @EequalMCsquare posts! *salutes to all*)
@Packmule3 I haven’t thought at all why Tae Eul behaved like that. But as we now know the end, in episode 15, TE changes their first encounter because of the memories LG implanted when he was travelling from 1994 to 2020, and in the current Time Loop she hugs LG…and he is kinda shocked about it.
I really enjoyed how their romance was shown. I have come to the conclusion that their Love is pure and deep that we – the audience – are so used to the context we were shown so many years on our TV, that makes us question it.
In TKEM though, what we get to see is a romance from another age.
A love that was not rushed at all, regarding the universe and rules scriptwriter KES wanted to show to us. We get to see what is / was LOVE for them and not what “love” has become. If you know ancient Greeks had different words in order to distinguish love between lovers and love between siblings etc.
That is the reason, in my opinion, why some cannot get it.
Because we are not familiar with it. Because we may want a love like this, that’s why we may “envy” the couple in that show, because we cannot have it and so on.
I will agree with @packmule3, in what she said in another blog entry, that KES has a specific notion about Love and she explores it in the Series she writes consistently.
I am really interested to see the plot in Goblin. It is in my k-drama must watch list.