As you probably know, there’s a situation right now in Washington DC where I work and in many cities across USA. I condemn the violence of these protests, and my colleagues and I are working to make sure that these people involved in looting, arson, destruction and lawlessness are brought to justice.
Do you get now why I don’t watch political and legal dramas? When you live in the “belly of the beast,” it’s exhausting to watch amateurs do it for entertainment.
I’ll try to catch up and watch Ep 13 during my downtime tonight. Take care, everyone!
*******************
New poster @azrien_jibral asked a question.
I only have one major question with regards to TKEM:
How did ORIGINAL Lee Gon survive the ordeal with his Uncle Lee Rim?
Now that it has been confirmed that adult Lee Gon went back in time to save his 8 y.o. self (episode 1). I may be adding confusion by using the adjective ORIGINAL to describe Lee Gon here, so let me just rephrase that into Lee Gon 1.0 (the Lee Gon who survived w/out the help of his future self, and presumably the one we also saw at the end of episode 10, crossing the universe and the time-space continuum to see Tae Eul). The one we are now following, allow me to just name him Lee Gon 2.0 — the one who can hopefully end the time loop, defeat his Uncle Lee Rim before bringing chaos upon both worlds, and save (even possibly marry!) his future Queen Jeong Tae Eul. Maybe I’m just nitpicking but I’m confident some of you have already figured this out, or maybe it was indirectly explained in the show but I just wasn’t able to catch it.
He also emailed me:
How did Lee Gon 1.0 (the Lee Gon who was not saved by his future self) survive his first encounter with Lee Rim?
I’m assuming we are watching Lee Gon 2.0 (the one who was saved by his future self), and his journey to free himself from the time-loop, defeat his Uncle Lee Rim (presumably in the past so that he won’t cause so much chaos in both worlds), and finally reunite with Jeong Tae Eul, his beloved future Queen.
In one of my first posts, I said we don’t know how many times Lee Gon has been looping back in time to save himself.
I assumed that this story started “in media res.” “In media res” means “in the middle of things.” It’s just a fancy way of saying “Sorry! You’re late to the party. You don’t get to hear the beginning of the story.”
Here, I made a diagram for you.
We’re so used to linear stories because that’s how we encountered fairy tales and legends when we were young. We always started at the beginning: “Once upon a time in a faraway land, there lived a beautiful princess in a beautiful castle with her Mom the Queen and her Dad the King.” There’s a hero and heroine. They start at Point A, then move to the middle Point B with their problems, and then end at Point C when their problems are resolved.
Now, this drama didn’t start off like that. It only APPEARED to start at the beginning.
But the fact that TaeEul’s November 11, 2019 ID existed, was an indicator that the Savior was a traveler from the future who went back in time to rescue the young Crown Prince. We weren’t given who, what, when, where, why, and how this Savior popped up. He was just there.
Finally, after 13 episodes, all the viewers have been shown that there was indeed a time travel from the beginning. And this is the reason I found @azrien_jibral’s question very interesting. While many of us are focused on time loops and the future, he was the only one who asked about the VERY FIRST TIME.
It’s bothersome when you think about it.
How would the very first Crown Prince survive his first ever encounter with Lee Lim if there was no Adult Lee Gon traveling back in time to rescue him?
Do you get the question?
If Adult Lee Gon was the Savior, then in the very beginning, he couldn’t have saved himself because he only existed as an 8 year old boy.
So who saved him back then from being killed by his Uncle Lee Lim?
That’s @azrien_jibral’s question and I said we should approach the problem from a different perspective.
This is a fact: Adult Lee Gon goes back in time to save his young self.
This is *one* theory: Mine —
If Lee Gon doesn’t go back in time, either one of these two things can happen:
A. Young Lee Gon doesn’t survive his uncle’s attack and he dies.
B. Young Lee Gon barely survives his uncle’s attack and he lives. This young LG grows up, finds the alternate universe, falls in love, finds time travel and goes back to rescue himself for the first loop.
Now, logic tells us that option A is not possible. The fact that Lee Gon exists as an adult is proof that he didn’t die in the past. So…B is the only possible answer. That is, he survives the attack on his life and lives.
But how did he survive the attack? Why Lee Lim didn’t kill him off entirely?
My answer: the shattering of the glass ceiling. 🙂
The shattering of the glass ceiling is the ONLY event that happened that night that was independent of Lee Gon’s arrival. Meaning, it happened on its own.
If you believe in divine intervention, then the shattering of the glass ceiling was God’s hand reaching into time and saving Lee Gon.
People always assumed that the Adult Lee Gon shot the ceiling…or there was a second shooter.
I said no.
For one, the ceiling was the wrong angle from where Lee Gon stood by the entrance of the hall. For another, the ceiling was too far from the shooter. A bullet must obey the laws of physics. A bullet can’t bend nor swerve to avoid hitting one of Lee Lim’s bad guys as it travels up to the glass ceiling.
I’d proposed that the glass ceiling shattered on its own because of science. The flute was emitting a sound. Remember? The young Lee Gon told Lady Noh that it was deafening. When Lady Noh said the flute was silent, he said firmly, “That’s not true. I definitely heard it. That’s why I went to Cheojongo. I couldn’t hear anything because the flute was so loud. I couldn’t hear the gunfire.”
At a certain frequency, glass shatters. To me, that the flute found the right frequency that made the glass ceiling vibrate. Then, as the flute played so loudly, the glass vibrated itself to smithereens.
The sound waves cracked the glass ceiling.
If you replay this scene again, you’ll hear the flute playing as the young Lee Gon closes his eyes, and his hand drops to the side. Then, there’s a popping sound as the glass breaks off from its steel frame and shatters.
Lee Lim turns around to see what the noise is and young Lee Gon drops to the floor.
The adult Lee Gon enters the hall.
He hasn’t fired a single shot but the alarm already activates because of the shattered ceiling.
All of Lee Lim’s people rush to the center with their guns aimed at the ceiling. They’re expecting an intruder to rappel down from the sky ceiling. But snow falls down from the open ceiling.
Lee Gon starts shooting.
In the confusion, the young Lee Gon reaches for the flute. On the walkie-talkie, the palace guards have been ordered to Cheongjongo for an emergency. Lee Lim and his men flee.
When you take away the adult Lee Gon from the equation, the shattering of the glass and the sounding of the alarm would be enough to force the Lee Lim and his men tp vacate the area quickly.
Young Lee Gon lives because he’s saved by the gods.
🙂
That’s my theory. On the very first encounter, he’s delivered by divine intervention. The gods step in as the King has forewarned. And Lee Lim should have started worrying about the punishment from the skies the moment he picked up the sword to kill his brother for the flute.
Wow, this makes total sense @packmule3! I’ve been wondering about the same thing – if Lee Gon has to break thr cycle of his afult self going back to save his younger self every time, how will his younger self actually get saved without him coming to the rescue? If he has to survive till adulthood, his younger self needs to be alive. This is a conundrum but you gave a perfectly logical explanation. It could have been the intervention of Fate who we know favors LG and could have been vibrational frequency caused by the flute which only LG could hear. Brilliant 👌👌
I love that in this series, there is truly a God at work. While at the ended HP, God was taken away by a girl. Pfft!
Thinking of you as you work your way through the current crisis in your part of the world. I’m with you, there’s other ways and means of protesting. Take care too!
@packmule3 A few bad people don’t make a nation. Wherever there is evil and injustice, there are those like our Lee Gon to stand up for the right. For every such incident of intolerance that occurs, there will be multiple others in US who condemn it, like you. May their voices drown out the inhuman ones who perpetrate such heinous crimes. Ultimately we are all humans, feeling the same emotions, fighting similar battles in life….and watching the same ldra3mas and swooning over the same hot heroes😝😝😝 This blog is a perfect example of such unity in diversity😇
*watching the same kdramas
By the way, in ep.13, I didn’t really understand how LL reached the conclusion that the adult LG had saved the younger LG by travelling back in time🤔🤔🤔 He suddenly looked at LG’s poster on an exhibition placard and seemed to arrive at that conclusion out of the blue after all these years!
Well this certainly removes that awful time travel paradox. Thanks @pklml3!
I believe your conclusion is right. But, if the original LG would have survived either way, then, he’s been looping back in time with other intentions. Not actually to save himself, but to make sure he’s going to meet JTE in the future, perhaps? I don’t know 😂
@pm3 please accept some 🍪 for your efforts in explaining this drama and towards keeping law and order in the real world. Please take care.
@agdr03 and @Phoenix
Yesterday I skipped my midnight dishwashing to visit Shallow island.
I was so very worried about the world as I stared in to the darkness outside my kitchen window. My country is grappling with COVid (a lost battle and too many friends and family as first responders). My sister is a doctor in the US (worry) who got all four tires of her car stolen yesterday (what?! More worry). She sounded so frightened over the phone, “Do you think they’re still out there? I really need to get to work.” I was lost as to what to say. I couldn’t be with her. I couldn’t protect her anymore (a given since I was six and she one).
So instead, I got out a giant tub of ice cream and had it straight from the tub as I watched LMH romance JJH (it was good to remember LBS yesterday). Then I watched him romance KGE till the light announcing the dawn streamed from my window. It was nice.
When I frist came to Shallow island, I thought to be accompanied by HB. But ah. I stand corrected. It’s LMH the first whose works I saw to see the man himself. Not the story. Not the drama. Another reason I feel glad to have found BoD.
Your article is interesting for the details that I hadn’t seen, despite the fact that I’ve seen this scene several times, such as the sound of the flute when the stained glass explodes.
I consider things more simply concerning the survival of Lee Gon as a child: he can’t survive without the intervention of the adult Lee Gon (but I admit, your theory is very attractive, and I don’t see anything that could contradict it).
So it’s a classic paradox, as there are in some time travel stories. At least not so paradoxical, because for the moment, nothing stands in the way of these events. This is used in several films I’ve already mentioned (Nimitz, the Knights of Apocalypse, and others).
For this reasoning, I avoid a linear view of things.
A B C.
Because here, “A” takes place because of “C”.
This seems impossible only according to our linear notion of time.
Time can also be an illusion. Nothing contradicts the fact that everything that happens is actually a single instant. This is metaphysics.
Physics already considers time as a dimension posed as space (Einstein’s famous space-time, in which time is the 4th dimension).
For a story of time travel, we can consider this: in addition to space-time there is an additional dimension (5th dimension) which is the one in which the modifications linked to time travel are deployed. A higher dimension.
Note that this theory could prove to be right! Physicists already speculate on lower dimensions, cf string theory.
However, I avoid speculating on all this in TKEM, because for the moment, I don’t know what time travel rules are used.
@Arihsi I understand. I also escape to Shallow Island when I have so much work that I don’t even have enough time to sleep, when I’m fed up of being confined within four walls of my house without anyone to talk to face to face, when I’m depressed that there seems to be no end in sight of this lockdown situation. I want to get out and travel, to take a break, to meet my friends, but these things are no longer possible in today’s world, for how long no one knows. So the only thing I can do on weekends is re-watch tender moments between LMH and TE and think of possible theories of how they can come together in a happy ending.
I’ve been a regular on BoD for more than 1.5 years, but I think I’m thankful of this blog now more than ever. I’m glad we have Shallow Island and Best Boyfriends to discuss, over glasses of Min-Grin Margaritas, when the world outside seems to have gone slightly mad and at times, frightening. That’s why I said in whichever part of the world we are, both our islands are safe places for us to take a vacation when reality gets too much to bear 🙂
Here’s to Shallow Island. 🥂 A safe refuge where you know EXACTLY what to expect. Shower scenes are the norm. Damsels in distress are always rescued in the nick of time. And accidental kisses never result in chipped teeth or bruised lips. Where kisses happen and first snow falls on cue. And happily ever after really does exist. Where men look like gods with perfectly sculpted bodies. And horses are so dazzling white that you need sunglasses to gaze upon them. Yes, here’s to Shallow Island. Long may she exist in everyone’s world.
“Here’s to Shallow Island. A safe refuge where you know EXACTLY what to expect……………Long may she exist in everyone’s world.”
Hear! Hear! Couldn’t have put it any better, @nrllee! 🙂
#GoShallowIslandGo
#ShallowIslandForever
@Arihsi, many hugs to you. That’s a lot to think about and carry with you. I’m so happy you were able to forget it for awhile with ice cream, happy moments from LBS and LG&TE. 🥰
I might rewatch LBS too as I really liked it as well. I understood the reincarnation there better than with all the maths here. 😆
#ShallowIslandIsTheBest #TeamLGForever
@agdr03 @Arihsi While LBS wasn’t height of good storytelling, LMH looked really cute in that in a boyish kind of way. Different from how he looks in TLEM though, I think the two years in military have made him look more mature, in a better kind of way😍😍
@Phoenix, LMH was casual but still handsome as a con artist and a jealous boyfriend in LBS. But as a King, he really turned it on. 😉😍 I’m glad he’s able to do his service and yes, I think he did mature too. ☺️
I totally agree that LMH has moved up to the next level of acting performance in TKEM. LOTBS also suited his personality as a handsome con artist but his role in TKEM was something else, he became more passionate! I wonder if KES had also prepared this role for LMH while he is in the military. I heard that in Descendants of the Sun, KES waited for Song Joong Ki to finish his military service.
It’s easier to understand this drama with @pm3’s theory of having a God controling LG’s fate than having two savior. For someone who believes in the power of a Supreme Being, it’s more realistic to assume that evil will not succeed in the end. I can somehow expect that HAPPY ENDING and beautiful solution is on it’s way! Maybe the royal babies too!!!
@agdr03 and @Phoenix thank you so much for your kind replies 🥰
@nrllee you describe Shallow Island so well ♥️ Here’s to its presence in everyone’s lives 🥂
And yes, because I watched LBS and TKEM together, the difference in performance is more glaring. It’s not just maturity,I’m quite sure he’s worked really hard on his emoting skills. Like maybe actually studied or something,it’s that much better. Especially scenes that depict desperation or sadness. Even laughter. He’s much more convincing in TKEM. At some points in LBS, you can see that it’s acting, and less “becoming the character”. Whereas with TKEM, even scenes that are showing “regular life” aka nothing is happening/status quo, you can see that the character is maintained.
Being with other Bitches on Shallow Island has been my safe haven, as well, these past difficult months. And I love that moving between islands can happen without restraint: @packmule steps over to Shallow Island from time to time, or we join her on Cynical Island to enjoy her view. No border control. And the bridge between islands is strong, able to bear all that wish to tarry there.
I keep thinking about Lee Gon’s statement that a face is just a symbol. If, by Fate, I was in proximity to @packmule3, @GB, @nrllee, @Arihsi, @Phoenix, @WEnchanteur, @agdr03, or any others I’ve come to know through their commentary in this forum, I’d walk right past. But if any of them spoke the code word Shallow Island, the bonds we’ve forged here would instantly become obvious.
And on the matter of code words, I wish our beloved characters of TKEM would establish code words between them to verify identity.
That said I’m holding onto hope that Lee Gon’s physical reaction at the end if ep. 13 was emotionally based, not from poison.
-He’s spent his life being aware of the danger from poison.
-He was aware LL drugged TE in ROK, as she told him it was the water she drank at the taekwondo center.
-We saw TE succumbed quickly to whatever she consumed.
-HCL Noh told him the chickens who test food just had to be replaced: recent poison attempt at the palace.
-He had a conversation with SJ’s KOC mom where she disclosed she’d been tasked by LL to poison him.
-We saw SJ’s KOC mom succumb quickly to the poison she consumed.
-When TE asked LG after her rescue how he’d know it was her, not her double, one of the distinguishing traits he listed was TE’s preference for alcohol over other beverages.
-He and TE had a minor tiff over her wanting to drink alcohol while she was on antibiotics and healing from her injuries.
-LG knew from examples he’d personally seen that LL was replacing people: Lee Sang Do, Prince Buyeong’s eldest son (their conversation gave away the imposter), the bookstore owner.
-LG was sitting at the table when TE warned her father not to open the door even to people he recognized, so LG overheard.
-LG knows the stakes are life and death, and he must remain vigilant.
We saw an open beer can when LG collapsed, but that may have been a red herring. He was up and moving around a length of time before he choked and fell. He’d wondered all his life why his savior had never shown himself, whether he’d unknowingly already crossed paths with his savior. The realization that he, himself, was the savior was huge, and brought him to tears. Then as we see adult LG gasp for air and collapse, flashbacks of child LG being strangled and collapsing are interspersed. Adult LG and child LG are one. Savior and saved are one. That’s what I believe we were being shown, not the delayed effects of poison.
I forgot to add to the above list that while TE enthusiasticly drinks beer and soju, Luna has been shown to drink water. @Packmule noticed that. When I was visiting Seoul last October, I learned that chicken and beer is essentially the national dish (or meal) in South Korea. Not chicken and water, as we see with Luna. That’s unusual.
The scene when we see ?? laying in a van, writhing, sweating, and crying, I’m convinced is Luna. We see a medication packet from a pharmacy next to the water bottle. We’ve been told she’s terminally ill. (But could LL have used his minions to create that diagnosis to spring Luna from prison early?) I also think her behavior can be explained by deep emotions. She’d experienced family for the first time in her life, living those few days with TE’s dad. As soon as TE returned, that was taken from her. Always, Luna has acknowledged the depth of family connection. She knew it is what made the man who betrayed her vulnerable. She said it hurts to think of TE having a family. Luna put the stars on the ceiling of the van to connect her to those brief days when she experienced family.
Dang it, I wish Luna wold come to TE’s dad and tell him, “I look like your daughter, but I’m not your daughter.” I believe he’d welcome her with open arms. We saw how he treated those three rude boys smoking cigarettes: he firmly conveyed his disapproval of their behavior, but willingness to accept them as students.
@welmaris
LR getting her a wrong diagnosis… now that would be some twist!!
All the reasons listed make sense but if one were to look at the preview then LG is in hospital. either because he collapsed due to the anxiety/emotional stress attack (he does shed a tear) or poison, we get to know on Friday.
Emotional stress makes sense as he did suffer in the car after the naval funeral because of the collared shirt. I hope what you are saying is true!
And one question: doesn’t beer count as alcohol? I thought the van was a beer can but I tried googling and couldn’t find it.
Just like @pm3’s theory about the ceiling being broken due to sound frequency makes sense.
@wenchanteur I like your theory too.
@iamastonished I have added the red balloon to my watching list. I at some point thought of the balloons as markers or the Cheshire Cat who shows Alice the way. But the French film sounds nice.
Agree with you Welmaris. To me, the person in the van is Luna. And she either copied the “stars on the ceiling” from TaeEul’s room or she had the stars already affixed to the van’s ceiling BEFORE she saw that TaeEul had the same thing.
And I’m not ready to write-off Luna as a lost cause. Probably because she’s a cat person, and she’s kind to kids.
@Welmaris I love what you have written about code words. If by fate, we do pass by our friends here, we won’t know them by face but if we mention the code word “Shallow Island”, we will instantly connect🙌
@Welmaris
hmmm… Though I gravitate towards him being poisoned, I believe what you are saying makes sense. I’m just not sure it’s emotional stress. He deals with that very well. Japanese war, numerous attempts to kill him, an alive and unaging LL, alternate universe 😂, TE and her antics, a missing TE who might be in mortal danger, being surrounded by enemies etc etc countless incidents to prove that he’s not shaken easily.
I wonder if it’s a higher element at work just like thunder and lightning and the yoyo girl. Being marked by the flute, it warns him when LL is upto something really sinister using that half of the flute. Here too, LL realises right along side LG that LG saves himself and LL might travel into the past to change the course of events. The use of flute to tavel in the past by LL may have triggered it’s effects in LG (like Harry Potter. Harry’s scar warns him whenever Voldemort is going crazier than usual) Although these effects being so great by themselves so as to render him unable to breathe and in a hospital is slightly counterintuitive. Let’s say his own realisation had a role to play as well. He does look exceptionally healthy (and fit to run miles) to be poisoned in near past.
Whatever it is, I want to TE to mollycoddle LG. Surely, he’s earned it. Not least because the poor man is lying in a threadbare hospital with barely the medical attention (or any type of attention) that he needs. He really craves it from her and though it might not be her style, it’s time she indulges him (and us) a bit.
Interesting.
So the first LG found the portal, crossed and met TE at the exact spot we saw in chapter 1 but didn’t hug her? His falling for her developed slowly?
Yes I also thought the breaking stained glass was divine intervention but I didn’t think that the sound of the flute as the cause. Good catch. Also the white snow delicately falling down from the ceiling looked angelic to me, like a blessing. Stepping back, I see an evil leader who rallies men to do his bidding, even to the point of justifying the murder of a child, as a political act. It is amazing to me that leadership can brainwash people into believing that crimes so horrible are a justifiable means to a political end. Justice has nothing to do with it. LL wants to achieve a police state that will benefit him no matter how many children and adult children are going to die. I’m sure God and his angels are not going to think very kindly about that.
@packmule3 – Thinking of you guys out there in the other side of the world. Stay safe!
@JT7 @Welmaris
I noticed something couple of days back when I went through TKEM at ungodly hours but forgot to write here…
In EP 4 as @noone mentions, explanation of why LG never wears collared shirts or ties is given as in it reminds him of his strangulation as a child.
However, in the 1940-1950 spoilers that we see, he is wearing the same type of buttoned shirt complete with a tie !
So is that Lee Gon the different?
Dear @Packmule3, really like your theory, but a character trait in Lee Gon’s family is their obsessiveness. Lee Gon keeping those two mementos (half the flute in the crop and Tae-Eul’s ID – his ANSWERS) of a moment he couldn’t wrap his mind around (Being saved). Prince Buyeong keeping the ring (after giving a correct ANSWER for the moment) as a memento of not having the real SOLUTION (sorry @Packmule3, I see Buyeong keeping the ring in a different light than you 😉 ).
Your theory of Lee Lim running after the alarm only works if Lee Lim is a coward that ran for his life with just half of what he came looking from… which is very possible. Otherwise he would have completed what he started (due to this detail-oriented family trait).
Lee Lim abuses the trust of others and avoids direct conflict when he could be involved unless he is confident in having the upper hand. He was confident on Lee Gon not knowing he still looked 45 to get near him and observe his nephew (the confrontation was due to his miscalculation – but he still had a “B” plan so he pulled out). His minions (especially No Name) carry his dirty work, and he usually engineers situations so he can have an advantage. But we have seen him killing a child, his own brother when he was alone, his paralyzed twin, his unknowing brother’s doppelganger, abusing an innocent woman, corrupting the poor and downcasted, etc.
The Korean book merchant killed in Corea and his twin No Name understood that. He might be formidable and yes, he is a compelling villain due to his intelligence and the way he thinks his movements ahead. But he is a coward.
Lee Gon is a hero that can fend multiple thugs with a riding crop and one hand on his back.
**********
Dear @Arishi and all Forumites, we might not be in the same room, the same country or even have similar conditions of life. But if we look in the same direction and suffer all the ailments normal to human condition then we are one in our diversity.
I am sorry to hear what your daughter is going through. Feeling vulnerable can really get inside your head, the word “intimidated” comes to mind.
I am confident she will be OK. If she has lived alone for sometime then she must have gotten more independent, resourceful and with perspective. She will pull herself together.
On the other hand I hope you are OK, because sometimes hearing that is worse for the person worrying, unable to go out and solve the problem or at least to soothe your loved one. If you can help it please don’t do that.
Lots of love to you and the other Forumites having difficult times (and you all),
FGB4877
@FGB4877 “If we look in the same direction and suffer all the ailments normal to human condition, then we are one in our diversity.”
– So beautifully put and so true of BoD. Sending love and happiness your way too🙂
@packmule: Pls take good care! Thank you for keeping BoD running even while you grapple with all these work issues.
@arihsi, Big hugs to you. How is your sister now? Here’s praying that things will get better, hang in there!
Also, interesting point about the 1940s Lee Gon. Perhaps this is another time cycle when LL is dead, & the child LG was not hurt by LL?
@phoenix, Shallow island has been a refuge for me too. I’m very new to this whole kdrama thing as well as to BoD, but during this period of lockdown & uncertainty, being able to escape into the realm where heroes ride white horses & trucks of dooms never win, has been a respite for me. Very thankful for the community here!
#TeamLGforever
Aww you guys… You are so sweet. Thank you.
@JT7 @FGB4877 my sister is okay 🙂 and yes, she’s indeed old enough to handle herself but it’s more a case of me being a worry wort and she being a baby to me forever. Thank you so much for asking and praying. ♥️
This has been my nagging thought from the start. Made worse in ep 15 when LG told SJ over beer that he broke the dome glass to trigger the alarm. Omg, maybe there’s just no simple explanation. So frustrating