Do you know that I AVOID reading @GB’s posts? They’re an irresistible catnip and I get sucked into replying to her posts.
The loose ends that we’re happiest over, when they got tied up. These still leave much to be desired!
1) Finding out who Chief Park’s Solitude is.
2) Finding out the reason (maybe?) that LL seemed to eat meals with Song Jeong Hye in ROK. Anyone wants to hazard a guess?
3) Finding out if 🪀 Fate is a boy or girl (did we?!?)
4) Guessing what made the Imaginary/Resurrection Lilies grow.
5) Finding out that JY is actually loyal to the end, although he never reported (never knew?) that he saw LL in the photos of the rowing race taken by Seung Ah.
1. Chief Park’s Solitude
This is actually a small vignette that I liked in this kdrama. I know most people thought it was a waste of time but I’ll tell you what I thought KES was trying to say here.
It’s this: Little acts of kindness may have a big impact on changing a stranger’s destiny. We don’t all have to be Lee Gons saving the world. We can be like Chief Park and do as well.
Netflix translated his solitude as “Loneliness,” and I think it actually works out better as loneliness.
We first heard it mentioned in Episode 5. Chief Park and his wife, the Forensic Doctor were out shopping late at night. Because of the nature of her job, she tend to look at the world with a cynical eye.
Park: Did Squad 2 find the weapon used in their murder case? Chief Choe is begging me to help him out.
It seems to me that other detectives were asking Chief Park for a favor since his wife is the head forensics.
Doctor: I just handed the information over. It’s a common kitchen knife. (she picked out a knife) It’d be about this size. (she started demonstrating the stabbing attack) Here, here, and here. And made sure the victim would die.
She used our favorite word, “yeogi.” Wasn’t she just fierce?
Park: Why is the world so dark? Let’s live a bright life. As bright as a light bulb.
Doctor: I can’t possibly be bright when my husband is leaving home at this hour.
Park: Come on, I don’t want to leave. But I can’t help it. Sinjae asked for just one glass…
Doctor: (grabbing his butt) Don’t make me work after work hours have passed.
Meaning, she’s good at investigative work. So he should think twice about cheating on her because she could figure it out in no time.
Doctor: (continuing) I can check your call records within ten minutes. (squeezing his butt and spanking it)
Park: Honey, wait. I’ll push the cart.
Doctor: No, I’ll do that.
Park: Honey, then could I put that in the car and take a taxi in front of the building?
Soon after that, Chief Park texted Sinjae because he made Sinjae his alibi.
Park: I’m having a drink with you today.
SJ: Who are you actually meeting then?
Park: Loneliness (or godog in Korean)
But by Episode 16, the Doctor still hadn’t discovered who “loneliness” was. lol. She thought it was TaeEul.
Doctor: It’s not you, right?
TE: Pardon?
Doctor: You’re not the one who keeps calling my hubby out.
TE: (pausing for a second) It’s me. I did that.
Doctor: Leave.
The funny thing here is that Chief Park’s friends seemed willing to cover up for him. They had implicit trust in him, so they were circling their wagons to protect him. The wife only became more suspicious because of their wall of silence. Once, TaeEul left her office, she examined Chief Park’s credit card statement.
She noticed that he went to “Circle Mart, Ilsan City Branch,” and he bought backpack and sneakers for 110,000 won. She thought to herself, “The person who keeps calling my hubby to come over must be starting school next year.”
Next scene, Chief Park strolled down a narrow lane calling, “Bogyeong!” He had a small bag of food. He opened the door, and spotted a little girl with a pink schoolbag and shoes. This must be Bogyeong who received the items from Circle Mart. His wife was there too, too.
Park: Heeju, when the snow piles up, it can make some roofs collapse. The weight of the snow can be unbearable to some 16-year-old kid.
Doctor: Is that your loneliness?
Park: Yes, you can say that.
What he meant was those times that he said he was out with “loneliness” he was actually attending to the needs of these grandmother and the child. He explained the situation.
Park: Do you remember Seongmin’s friend?
Doctor: Yes.
Park: That’s his grandmother and sister. As you can probably guess, his grandmother is very ill. He couldn’t pay the hospital bills, so he stole money from the safe at his job.
Doctor: And?
Park: And he asked me for a favor before he got arrested. He asked me to buy his sister a bag of steamed buns. And he also asked me to remove snow from their roof. That’s when I started visiting her, and here I am. She needs hope to get through it all, you know?
And the Doctor must have felt a host of emotions: shame, relief, guilt, sadness, embarrassment, pride and love. She thought he was cheating on her when all along, he’d been helping out a stranger’s family in his usual humble and self-effacing way.
He didn’t want to draw attention to his Good Samaritan deeds.
Park: (switching topics) But I had no idea I’d see you here.
Doctor: (standing up) My goodness. Come on, I thought you were here to plow snow.
Park: (chasing her) Honey, should we hold hands? Well? How about I build a snowman for you?
Now, why I thought “loneliness” was better word than “solitude”? It’s because Chief Park was warding off loneliness. The grandmother and the child were lonely and isolated people. And out of the goodness of his heart, he began visiting them to keep them company while the grandson (and brother) was in jail.
I’ve said this so many times already. Lee Lim acquired followers because he promised them something society wouldn’t give them: attention. He targeted marginalized women like Song Jeong Hye, Mrs. Baek the mom of the lame child, ShinJae’s Corean mom, and the pregnant lady. Since they didn’t have a support system, they easily fell prey to his manipulation.
But if these people met good individuals like Prince Buyeong who intercepted SinJae’s mother from harming SinJae, and offered counsel,
the PM Koo’s mom who took in Luna under her wing and saw the child’s remarkable honor code,
and Chief Park who spent time with the grandmother and granddaughter, then their lives could have turned out differently. The unsung acts of kindness of Prince Buyeong, PM Koo’s mom and Chief Park towards a stranger in need are what we need nowadays to “make things right” (as Lee Gon would say) and change lives.
That to me is the overall message of KES with these minor characters and their vignettes.
2. LL eating meals with Song Jeong Hye
Updated 6/15/2020 to add @kuroshio’s comment. Thanks!
The relation between LL and Song always confused me. At first, I thought Song is LL’s love that he never had. They eat together like an unhappy couple. But then I noticed that Song always ate before LL and she picked a little bit of each dish, and ate all of them up in one bite. My theory is song is actually LL’s taster, people taste food beforehand. Like LG only eats what had been tasted, so does LL.
No matter how tenuous the link between the two of them, Lee Lim considered Song JeongHye his only connection to the family he destroyed.
Song JeongHye was like the vibrant paint that he used to repaint the old buildings.
From Episode 2:
Monk: I’m sure you have a good car, a secretary, and other better things to do. Why are you doing tough work like this?
Uncle: This dancheong has 300 years of history. Painting over it like this is as if I’m covering it with another history. A history of my own.
Monk: I see. That’s why your color seems to have depth.
Similarly, Song JeongHye was his (meal)ticket to reinstate himself in the Royal House of Corea.
SJH: It must be you. Lee Lim’s nephew. The same face as Jihun. If JiHun were alive, he’d have grown up like you.
SJH: (cont) But JiHun died because of you. And it seems like you’ll die because of me. Lee Lim said that’s why he kept me alive.
Sure, on one hand, I’d like to imagine him as a normal man craving for normal interaction. He got along fine with Nari, didn’t he? He could be civil with Song JeongHye, too, if he wanted to.
But I’m well-aware that, in Song JeongHye’s eyes, he had one and only one use for her. And that’s why he ate with her. He was ensuring that his calf named Song JeongHye was fattened and ready for the slaughter.
Her guard attacked but Yeong easily disarmed him.
LG: Will you be okay?
SJH: (nodding)
LG: It’s my mother’s death anniversary soon. I believe Lee Lim is planning on taking you there that day. If you go there, you can’t come back. I’ll help you.
SJH: Then will you come and save me? Come two days before the anniversary. I know the date, too.
LG: Your son –
SJH: There’s no point saying that. The fact that he died because of you won’t change.
This whole conversation struck me as prescient. The two of them shared a knowledge of events even before they took place.
SJH: Don’t die because of me. I’m not your mother.
And she walked away in a ghostly vision of white.
To me, I find her a tragic character. Because she had a moment of laughter, Lee Lim punished her with 25 years of sorrow.
I’m glad she had her last laugh when she died on Lee Lim when he least expected it.
3. Finding out if Fate is a boy or girl (did we?!?)
The character was played by a female child actress, but the Yoyo Kid/Fate was a boy.
Let me explain something this Yoyo Kid. He said, “I thought this would break. But it sprouted instead. The door will close, and only the memories will remain.”
As I’ve written elsewhere, the red string of fate can signify life, in kdramas. Meaning, when the string is cut, then life ends. But this red string of fate has another meaning. It can also represent the connection between two lovers. It’s believed that it’s better to have red string is severed when one of the lovers dies so that the surviving partner can continue living his/her life after the death of the lover.
But Yoyo Kid noticed that the red string didn’t break. That meant that the bonds between Lee Gon and TaeEul would continue.
Then, the Yoyo Kid was shown to be one of SinJae’s tormenters that TaeEul confronted.
Then, the Yoyo Bully Teenager thought, “Should I break it?” while the Yoyo Kid wondered, “Or just let it be?”
To me, if the Yoyo Bully Teenager had gotten his way, then TaeEul would have ended up with SinJae. lol. That was the purpose of that Yoyo Bully Teenager. He was there to ensure that TaeEul and SINJAE met.
Think about this for a second. The reason SinJae ended up at her Taekwondo school was because he was beaten up by the Yoyo Bully’s gang, and TaeEul showed up to fight for SinJae. After that TaeEul told him to sign up for her class. That was their “fated” meeting and it was the Yoyo Bully Teenager who facilitated their meeting. In the Kingdom of Corea, the Yoyo Bully seemed to have gotten his way since SinJae and Luna would end up as the “fated” couple.
But in the end, the Yoyo KID just let the string between TaeEul and Lee Gon be. He didn’t cut it; he didn’t cut the link between TaeEul and Lee Gon.
4. Guessing what made the Imaginary/Resurrection Lilies grow
I already wrote about this in another thread, but I’ll repeat myself here. Remember, this is *my* interpretation.
TaeEul had always expressed faith in the supernatural element of the No Man Land. Lee Gon told that the place couldn’t be explained scientifically, and that there wasn’t wind, rain, sun, and a different time existed in there. But TaeEul insisted that a plant would grow in there in spite of the harsh condition.
The plant that sprouted in Episode 14 didn’t come from the seeds that she planted. Remember: it grew when her photograph fell to the ground.
Also, the plant that grew in her flowerpot at home in Episode 16 didn’t sprout because she had been watering it all that time. No, it just grew when she thought all was lost.
To me, they grew out of hopelessness.
When she felt that her love was most hopeless, and when she reached the nadir of her misery, that was when the flowers bloomed. The flowers mean “hopeless love.” They wouldn’t bloom when there was still of a vestige of hope remaining.
So, you’re seeing the paradox of the flower. It blooms only when love is hopeless, and because it blooms, there’s hope for love.
5. Finding out that JY is actually loyal to the end, although he never reported (never knew?) that he saw LL in the photos of the rowing race taken by Seung Ah
Actually, there’s no disloyalty in Yeong. He’d been the Unbreakable Sword from start to finish.
He didn’t recognize Lee Lim in the photos of the rowing race for the same, simple reason that Lee Gon didn’t recognize him when he was searching the video clips. They were both expecting a frail, old man.
There you go, @GB. I hope I put your heart at ease.
This is why I love you and your perspective so much! Your thought and the way you see things and situations are wide which leads you able to enlighten people on this drama which most people take it very lightly.
KUDOS!
Lovely! @pkml3 I loved how you brought back all the stuff on Chief Park and showed that KES had a bigger message than I was able to see. Thinking this now, makes the show better … like we didn’t waste our time watching something that promised a word of wisdom but then retracted. Thanks for having the helicopter view and sharing it!!!
I really liked that Park’s friends trusted him and that he was so self-effacing, but I can’t help also thinking that it’s something he could have shared with his wife, rather than lying to her to hide a good deed.
Those vignettes of good deeds somehow got buried. If show could somehow have given them more time or focus, they’d have been more appreciated by the audience instead of being thought of as ‘unnecessary’ side stories without bearing on the main plot.
The only biggie that stood out for me was because it involved LG, and how he’d have turned out to be a tyrant, if he’d not had a good upbringing with HCL Noh and P Bu Yeong. Then again … we see that perhaps it was because without P. Bu Yeong doing his fatherly best for his own son, Seung Hun, the latter ended up following LL and got himself killed/shot in 1994 by LG (whom his father had brought up!! So ironic and sad). Taking what you say about the ones who are marginalized, who were good targets for LL, perhaps Seung Hun followed LL because LL paid him attention when his own father was too busy with LG, to do so.
The meals with Song Jeong Hye – I agree with you and also there was a more chilling thought. I’ll reserve that for tonight since I said I’d post that later.
Yoyo Boy/Girl – Yes I like the red string significance for the couples … seems Yoyo in his/her duality was also in 2 minds about which couple to promote Heh! Again, there was not enough link up between the Kid and the Teen so that we could appreciate the tension in which couple would work out. Show once again failed itself here.
It seems that the sequence of events was that Yoyo bully brought his gang including SJ who’d join the gangsters at that age, past TE’s window. SJ had gone into the Taekwondo Centre on his own after this and started with a white belt. Later on, SJ had been the victim of Yoyo’s bullying and TE had recognised the gang and came to the rescue. TE offers SJ to start at the yellow belt if he returned to the Centre, since he had displayed perseverance in the time of the bullying.
At Ep 16, I thought with the short shots of Yoyo, we’d get some answer as to him/her being whole now that LG and TE had resolved the flute and time/space conundrum. Show just assumes we got it, but I didn’t! In what way is Yoyo whole again or is he/she? 🙄
(Oh… I’m SOOOO 🤭 tickled to be the catnip commenter LOLOL. Couldn’t stop giggling for ages. 😂 Do you end up reading your posts 🧐 gingerly and scanning quickly past anything that has 😬 @GB on it? LOL.)
By Jove! You did it again! I am in awe of your clarity and wisdom. Thanks @Packmule 3. That was an excellent explanation! It opened my eyes so to speak.
And here I was simply playing the poll with nary a care😳 Thanks @GB for your clever poll, bet you didn’t realise that @Packmule3 would pick on it or maybe you did?!
I knew Show was just showing us that Chief Park’s solitude was helping out a poor family. But I didn’t dwell further into it until you explained that little acts of kindness can change someone’s LONELY destiny juxtaposed with LL’s manipulative way for acquiring followers. Isn’t he like the devil darn it😈
Oh and YoYo boy/man flashbacks especially that bully which I thought ahh just another school bully but of course he (fate) had to orchestrate the “fated meeting” for SJ and TE ..for LG to win the final battle with people who supported him all the way!
I am still curious with what you said
“this whole conversation struck me as prescient. The two of them shared a knowledge of events even before they took place”
Would you kindly explain that when you have time please? I was puzzled with their conversation.. why 2 days before the memorial and how Song jeong hye managed to procure poison for the meal! You don’t think LG had a role in that do you?
I am so glad you are writing all this in the English speaking world. I only hope that there is someone who would also explain so well the sublime and subtle meanings of this one K drama in korean and other languages so that it wouldn’t be dissed so much.
I really “HAN”(💟) you. Thank you.
I just read your post @GB! You and @Packmule3 are both in tandem! Love it. I “HAN” you too 💟😁
You wrote “KES had a bigger message than I was able to see”
Ditto.
Friends of mine always laugh at me for just sticking only with K dramas. But I find great joy and better appreciation for life and people by observing the tales they tell us. There is always a moral story behind it and Good always triumphs over Evil.
And I have @packmule3 to thank for her explanation of “HAN” moments in K dramas.
LOL @Carolstar, it’s because @pkml3 and I are not in tandem that I’m the catnip commenter LOL. I say such preposterous things that she finds herself 🤔 😐 😳 😬 😓 🤓
I don’t do it on purpose, I’m just wired that way!!! 🤯 😂 🤪 😎
Thanks for your ‘Han’ sentiment, although I’d like to qualify that if it means “…solidarity through a sense of “shared suffering” that’s fine, ie we think we went through quite a bit with this show together.
However if according to Wikipedia it also means “resentment, hatred, or regret” then no, please don’t Han me LOLOL. 😅 😂
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_(cultural)
I still dont understand about the Royal Ancestral Shrine 🤡 The one that Lady Noh mentioned kekekeke
Oh @GB no no no 😱
I meant well of course!
Yes “Solidarity through a sense of ‘shared suffering'” and having you all explain subtle details to us is so appreciated therefore I “heart”
💟 you both but I played on the “Han” word ‘cos it was difficult deciphering this K drama! I suffered sleepless nights!
Hehe yeah tandem may have been the wrong word more like.. you both are like the spark to the firecracker 😁🧨🎆
@Carolstar I knew what you meant. I was just teasing you! 😆 😃
Luna Lee, I had the feeling that the mentions of the ancestral shrine were a code for producing heirs to the throne since Lady Noh mentioned it in tandem with finding a partner. 😉😂
@packmule3, thank you for pointing out the little acts of kindness that change destinies. There are many examples of random acts of kindness, kindness to strangers and the power of kindness to change the world. If only we can be inspired by them and brave enough adhere to them.
Thank you for your beautiful interpretation. I am finally feeling better after watching the final episode.
The relation between LL and Song always confused me. At first, I thought Song is LL’s love that he never had. They eat together like an unhappy couple. But then I noticed that Song always ate before LL and she picked a little bit of each dish, and ate all of them up in one bite. My theory is song is actually LL’s taster, people taste food beforehand. Like LG only eats what had been tasted, so does LL.
I actually approve of the Final Episode.
But I was letting people rant and get it out of their system before I come in and clean up after them. 🙂
That seems to be my appointed role in this blog: sweeper.
So you will grade it yeah? ☺️
Why? Do you want me to grade it? 🙂
But first let me go through the supposed plotholes. I’m seeing that some of them don’t qualify as plotholes….
Yes please. 😊 No rush with grading as I know you’re still busy. Do tell us about the not so plotholes. I’m deciding whether to have a late snack now as I didn’t have a proper dinner because I went to the doctor.
To eat or not to eat? 😬
Thanks for the explanations, @pm3. Things make more sense to me now.
Doctor? For your blood pressure? Take care of yourself now. Remember, we still have to be grandmamas. 🙂
You’re welcome, Table122000.
The ending isn’t really that complicated but it needs “finesse-ing” because we don’t have a narrator to explain what was going on.
The only time we had a narrator telling us what was happening was when Yoyo Kid explained to JiHun’s mom was what was going on. The rest, we had to figure out on our own.
Aww grandmamas 😍 true that! Thank you 😊 Actually I’m nursing a sore throat just last night, it’s painful to swallow and it’s on and off. I’m taking antibiotics now.
good point about being food taster. I’ll edit my post to add that. Thanks. 🙂
@Kuroshio and @pkml3 Yes!! Food taster. That was what I was going to post tonight after my online meeting.
In my notes: Reasons for LL eating with Song Jeong Hye
Yup, those are my guesses about our horrible LL.
@Growing Beautifully (GB), at first I thought he might have been using her as a wife, in a really creepy retribution to his dead brother, even the brother’s double. Thank goodness the script didn’t go there. Bad enough.
@Fern Errr…. Ewwwwww!!!! No, thank goodness, no. LOL. I feel LL is one character who has been written to be the most ‘inhuman’ in not needing anyone. That was the reason that his words to Song JH in one of his earliest visits to her, that she should eat by herself or go out … struck a weird chord with me. It sounded almost like they were ‘family’, expected to eat together.
But now that we’ve (hah! Bitches that we are!) determined that he was not at all being familial, we can have the ‘relief’ of knowing he was just biding his time and keeping a closer watch on her than on any others that he was planning to use.
We know that he was keeping an eye on all those whose photos he kept. But Song JH was special. She was going to be his ‘proof’ that he was ‘god’ over time and space.
Packmule this is amazing! The finale episode reveals just felt too convenient and that Chief Park’s solitude reveal just annoyed me as it had nothing to do with the main story. This makes so much sense now. You really understand KES’s style, its lost on most of us. I’m more curious to watch Goblin and Mr. Sunshine now, I have only watched Heirs.
my fav quote
Park: Why is the world so dark? Let’s live a bright life. As bright as a light bulb.
thank you packmule3 on the explanation.:)
Thank you so much for this @packmule! (and thanks @GB for always asking the right questions!) Understanding that little vignette of Chief Park was so helpful. I also took his loneliness to refer to him having to carry that burden (of helping out that family secretly), just like how Lady Noh was lonely keeping both her and LG’s secrets.
This bit on loneliness reminds me of my bits of steak theory that I mentioned over in the Ep 16 open thread, which I had more time to chew on. @GB, @carolstar, @Fern, remember I mentioned LG’s root symbol was his problem of endlessly having to make right all the wrongs LL had done, as well as his endless cycle of loneliness that results from him trying to go about doing it on his own? He was trying to solve the problem by being the ONE to right the wrongs, and he said TE had the power to release him from the root symbol because she was the ZERO. Initially, I suggested that the solution would have been 1/2, since it ends up that both of them solved the problem. I realize I was wrong. LG’s answer should be TWO: BOTH TE and LG killed LL solving the first problem, and the TWO of them being together solves LG’s problem of loneliness. Mathematically, any whole number can be released from it’s root symbol if you add a TWO as a superscript to it, since that squares the number.
The number TWO can be written as 이 in Korean, which I thought was so apt: TE’s ZERO and LG’s ONE are combined to give a TWO. And I realize LG’s solution to his problem was actually shown to us within the show: When TE opens LG’s unidentified persons case file, she types in his name 이곤. LG’s answer to his problem was hiding in his name all this while!
@JT7 What a lovely post! Yes I believe the Lee in Korean looks like a zero and a one (01) 이 TE’s zero and LG’s 1 together make them 2 or rather you’re squaring the root which removes it LOL. Our romantic and interesting Maths for Bitches right here. 😂
@GB @JT7 Hey I was the one who suggested the 이 – the zero and one and the place holder link. But I think the comment got buried somewhere. No matter. I wasn’t very useful in discussions anyway because I dropped out in Ep5. I remember commenting and then PM3 said it actually made sense. 😂 and I felt like I joined the illustrious halls of fame for serendipitous scientific discoveries…like Fleming with Penicillin 😂
@nrllee Yes, I remember that you were the first to give us the Korean ‘Lee’ character as zero and one. Yeah, I won’t know how to search and find all the comments I want to refer to as well LOL.
I was looking at my own notes just now and noticing that I’d mention bit and pieces of stuff that did come to pass but I really don’t know where I posted those and it hardly matters. It’s good to know that we managed to hit on (some of) the beautiful solutions from time to time. 😆
@nrllee Oh you did! Cookies for you for seeing that symbolism so early on, along with the significance of ginkgo trees! I thought it was cool that both actors playing LG and LL are also 이s in real life.
@GB Yes! And we have so many gems coming from all the discussions here.
@nrllee and @GB, I don’t know about doing this on an Apple computer system, but with Windows I can use the “find” function to look for key words in these comment streams. If you want to find something you’ve written, once you pull up a comment stream on your screen, click on the ! in an orange circle at the upper right corner of the screen, then click on Find… You’ll get a drop-down box. Type your screen name into the box and it’ll search for it. That will highlight your screen name each time it appears at the top of your posts. Hope this helps.
@packmule3, we weren’t far into this drama before I began thinking of Yoyo Kid/Fate as being the voice of writer KES herself. Kinda like how Hitchcock would insert himself into his movies.
Chief Park is a caring, sentimental guy, isn’t he? I recall how he told SJ over their Korean BBQ dinner, “I really like snow. I get teary when it snows.” This comment is even more poignant when we learn that snowy conditions means it is time for him to go shovel snow from the roof of a ailing granny’s home. I just wish Chief Park hadn’t lied to his wife, and made others complicit in his lies, to do his good deeds.
To be honest, I wasn’t really paying attention to Chief Park the whole time he was talking about his loneliness/solitude. 😂
I knew he was being secretive. I knew he was going somewhere that he wasn’t accounted for. But he didn’t strike me as a dishonest person or a cheating husband so I ignored him. Then when he remembered the license plate of the car spying on SJ, I knew he was one of the good guys.
This writer is consistent in that sense. 🙂 Her evil characters are all bad; no half measures. Just like that king’s counselor/the ghost in Goblin.
But her side characters, she makes them either black or white, and then, she sticks with that. She doesn’t have time for moral “conversion” with her side characters.
For instance, Luna. It was clear she wasn’t going to be bad because she was kind to kids and stray cats. 😂😂
Sinjae. It was clear to me that he was going to be trustworthy till the end because TaeEul said so.
I was worried about Nari because she was friendly with Lee Lim. But it turned out that Nari was just a friendly person like Eunsub.
So KES’ side characters are written as static characters. Once she pegs them as siding with good or evil, they don’t switch around and suddenly become a turncoat.
So with Chief Park, I actually assumed that he was doing a sideline to augment his income. Something harmless.
huaaaaa just cryin to see this analysis from you @packmule3, it really hit me how KES make a message in this drama that most of us didn’t know about it…. i hope many people read every analysis regarding TKEM in your blog because it’s so beautiful …. sadly not many korean people aware about this 🙁 thankyou so much for your patiently answer our question and write many post analysis about TKEM. stay healthy @packmule3 !!! glad to found your blog.
Chief Park was one of my favorite side characters. I knew he was on the good side from Ep 7, 58:55 when he was having dinner with SJ.
CP – Why? Is something outside? Is it snowing?
SJ – Do you still like snow at your age?
CP – I really like snow. I get teary when it snows. Well, it’s not snowing that much this year.
SJ smiles a little.
How can he be bad when he gets teary eyed from looking at falling snow? He’s a romantic at heart!
Hey Ladies!
@Packmule3 Thank you for this post!
I have to share with you that I didn’t like the conversation between Song Jeong Hye and LG.
For me, in 1994 LG was just a 8 years old boy that he almost died that night his uncle murdered his father / his brother / the King.
I cannot accept so easily that it was not Lee Gon’s fault that Ji Hun died.
That was LL’s fault all along. He murdered everyone in her family, not LG.
I can understand that the writer did that in order to make LG’s decision solid so as to go back in 1994 for the suicide mission, but still.
It is unfair to the man that LG has become, to hear to say such a thing from his mother look alike.
LG is not LL. SJH should have known that.
*rants over*
thank you for this wonderful post. It makes me enlightened of some questionable scenes. More posting please.
You’re welcome.
Didn’t know there were still people reading the TKEM posts. I was going to close the comment section. 😂
If the comment section hasn’t been closed, I’d like to ask some questions. When folks are referring to Yoyo kid/Fate, is that how he is listed in the credits–as Fate? Did the author refer to him as Fate? I ask because I was struck with a sudden epiphany the other night. What if Yoyo kid/Yoyo bully (teen) is actually a human avatar of the Flute?
The Yoyo teen is the version that LL has in his possession since LL is older and it would indicate the greater time LL has spent between worlds to stay young.
Yoyo kid is LG’s half of the flute and when he says he warns others of danger it made me think of when LG said he heard the discordant notes of the flute the night his father was murdered, and after LG recovered from being poisoned.
When Yoyo kid is explaining to Song JH what had happened (narrating) it’s because as the Flute he *knows* what has happened and is going on.
As he goes back and forth between Yoyo kid and Yoyo teen could that be the flute finally merging back together and becoming whole?
I’ve no idea why this idea occurred to me other than I’ve often wondered if they’ll go into that character more in Season 2–which I’ve read online might be a possibility even if JE/JY’s actor is doing his mandatory military service.
Oh, and just a quick edit–I kept wondering if Yoyo kid was LG and TE’s child and he was able to time travel, and then I remembered what Yoyo kid said to TE when he was rescuing her. She mentioned that he was “in this world, too” and he replied, “There’s only one of me.”
What is there only one of? The Flute. Sure it got chopped in half, but it was supposed to be one. Hence the kid and teen. Two halves of a whole, separated by time spent differently by two different men.
@Silverthorne Over here on BOD, we welcome all kinds of theories, that have at least some support from the script, and the way the show played out.
Yours is a novel and interesting one and while I cannot recall any direct connection to the flute, neither is there anything that says the boy cannot be the embodiment of the flute. That always was the problem with TK:EM. Too much was left to us to ‘guess’ and make sense of by ourselves. Still that has opened up lots of interesting theories like yours.
I vaguely recall that we associated the Boy with Fate because of the East Asian belief and kdrama motif of the red string/thread being the ‘Red thread of fate’. This is more often associated with destined lovers who are tied together by an invisible red thread.
I checked in Wikipedia, about what was said about the Yo-Yo Boy, and it has a one line description: “The mysterious boy with a yo-yo who controls the parallel universes (Ep. 3-11, 14, 16)” and no mention of ‘fate’. That description was rather a great deal more generous than I’d give for the Boy. We do not see him controlling the universes, but he was concerned with what was happening to them. However this Wikipedia description could actually support your theory, because possessing the flute while it played summoned the portal and enabled travel to the universes. The traveler carried the piece of flute with him.
The boy might have been the flute that accompanied TE to LG’s universe when she was kidnapped, and so turned up to help her. However, if we go by your reasoning, I’d have expected to see the older teen version as the Yo Yo person we see with kidnapped TE, as that would have been the flute that LL minions would have used. Also LG had the teen Yo Yo Boy with him in the rowing I think, so maybe the ages don’t matter.
In any case, it does not matter. For all we know the flute, being ageless, might/would just keep popping up looking like a differently aged person at different times. Certainly the comment on sounding the warning makes us think of the flute, and your idea that the back and forth between boy and teen (in the tunnel?) was the flute reconnecting, is an interesting thought.
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Hey @GB and @Silverthorne,
To answer to your question. In the beginning I believed as well that the Yoyo Boy aka Girl is the human avatar of the flute and that he was whole in the end.
I have read all @packmule3’s TK:EM blog threads and the commentator’s conversations afterwards.
After all this time, I have watched TK:EM this past September, I am tending to agree with @packmule3 and another commentators – sorry I cannot recall who said it – that the Yoyo kid, the Bully and the grown up person that was rowing along with Lee Gon are the Moirai or Three Fates, the ones that were found in Ancient Greek Mythology.
From Britannica’s Article: “Their names were Clotho (Spinner), Lachesis (Allotter), and Atropos (Inflexible). Clotho spun the “thread” of human fate, Lachesis dispensed it, and Atropos cut the thread (thus determining the individual’s moment of death).”
I will agree with @GB and the red string / thread as well. What I think is that the writers combined parts from the ancient greek mythology, along with the East Asian beliefs in order to create something new. The writer-nim didn’t reveal much about the mechanics of this Universe. We don’t know what else to expect, so we speculate !
What I believe about TK:EM?
There are Forces in the Universe that are unseen and in TK:EM were personalized in order for us to understand that human beings are not alone in times of need.
They are around us always, even if we don’t realize it.
(The same thing was happening in Ancient Greek epic songs like Homer’s Iliad: Gods were fighting in the battlefield along with the greek soldiers who were loyal to them aka believers and they favorited them for it. Hence the discovery and usage of Deux Ex Machina motiv that was used in the ancient greek tragedies three centuries later.)
For example, Divine Intervention was present – check @packmule3’s explaining more about it in the second timeline where the vitraeux glass ceiling cut LL’s hand vs the first timeline that his hand was cut by Lee Gon’s attempt to hit him with the 4 Tigers Sword.
I really liked your insight! It seems that minds are working alike, even if are separated some klms apart !
More information for Moirai / Three Fates on the link : https://www.britannica.com/topic/Fate-Greek-and-Roman-mythology
Thanks for sharing your interpretation on the 3 Fates as personified by the Yo Yo Boy and Teen and was the rower an Adult?
As always, interesting and thought provoking. And surprise, surprise! Or maybe not, if you’ve been doing research. I found this write-up in MyDramaList which actually connects the 3 Fates with the Yo Yo Boy and with the Flute!!!
https://mydramalist.com/discussions/the-king-the-eternal-monarch/49209-yoyo-boy-explained
Most interesting!
Hey my lovely @GB,
Thank you for the link! I will read it, because I really don’t remember If I have found this article before!
Here is what I have found about the Actor Kim Wook that portrays both the Teen and the Adult:
https://metro.style/people/celebrities/kim-wook-in-the-king-eternal-monarch/25651
Good Midday to you @Cleopatra! Thanks for the link too. I read the post and went down to check out Kim Wook’s visuals. Very nice. He reminds me of someone but I can’t recall whom at the moment. The little bits of information on him was nice to know as well. He’s serious about his religious beliefs and is frugal – those are not some of the usual stuff one learns about a celebrity.
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@GB,
I read that thread on Mydramalist. If we take into consideration Greek Gods and how they were perceived in Homer’s Iliad and Odyssey, what the yoyo boy / teen / adult / deity did then it makes sense.
Here is my insight on TKEM:
Yes of course, the Yoyo boy favorited Lee Gon and Tae Eul.
Lee Gon was the rightful owner of the Manpasikjeok.
Lee Gon took very difficult decisions regarding not only his human life, but also saving the Cosmos than staying with the woman he loved.
BUT the Deity favorited him, because he answered to his call. He did his duty, because of his selfishness. He completed his quest. Let’s say it was equivalent to a Herculean task.
The decision Lee Gon took destroyed the world as he knew it, but at the same time solified that the worlds will continue to exist and thrive. Hence he was worthy. He became a Hero ( ήρωας ), or a demigod.
In Ancient Greece the Kings were saying that their lineage from long lost ancestors that were Heroes or even Demigods For Example: Theseus and Heracles / Hercules.
Lee Gon was The King Eternal Monarch but also a Hero.
At the same time Tae Eul took the same decisions Lee Gon took. She followed her path / duty as well and she was brave enough to stand with Lee Gon in that battle in the in between world.
She was favorited by the Deity herself as well, that’s why he initiated for TE to lose her officer badge – the one LG has in his possession since the beginning of the time-loop – and then to save her in order to restore balance against Evil as portrayed by LL.
Therefore, their award was to find again each other.
Since the Deity favorites both Lee Gon and Tae Eul, then they didn’t just spent only two days per week for the rest of their lives.
The Deity would and could make it possible for them to be truly together as husband and wife, as a King and a Queen.
On the link you shared with us, a commentator said that Kim Eun Sook, without naming her, is a bad fanfiction writer.
I disagree. I think that in order to understand TK:EM we have to be familiar with how Gods or Deities were used in world’s literature and mythology in order to connect the dots.
But that is the magic of these TV-Series and after today I will be enjoy watching it even more!
@GB,
Good midday to you as well! I have to check thoroughly the visuals and the information *lmao*
@PM3 said no binge reading of past posts so I’ve started reading TKEM bit by bit. So that’s when Shallow Island came to be!!! This is the only site where I try to read all the comments, too so that was fun. 🤩 And those were just the teasers…
@GB and @Cleo – I noticed your new posts on TKEM and can’t help but comment on the great exchanges of thoughts and ideas. I watched Goblin as I started TKEM and the writer used a deity/god there as well with similar purposes. It’s interesting to know that this has roots in mythology. As a newbie kdrama watcher, I thought this was a Kdrama trope of fate given the 2 data points. LG will fail me in math!
I like TKEM (I discovered WDW and KGE here!) and my group of friends had fun dissecting it. Would have been more insightful if I discovered this blog then. Better late than never.
@Cleopatra What a great interpretation of LG and TE as demi gods with Homer’s Iliad as a background. The way you put it, it sounds so plausible. Yes, certainly, a greater knowledge of literature does help us appreciate shows more, especially with cryptic writers who leave it to viewers to make sense of the symbols and metaphors strewn about.
( •᷄ὤ•᷅)？
Σ(♡＠﹏ ＠☆)ﾉ”
❀.(*´◡`*)❀.
I found a typo on my comment above I need to correct it:
Lee Gon was unselfish!
[…] because of his UNselfishness… […]
Hey @GB and @Janey!
I am happy that we can share our thoughts and insights trying to understand how TK:EM world’s mechanisms work.
@GB, as you said symbolism and metaphors are not easy to decipher and I am content if I have found something that is helping others to understand!
P.S. I am thinking to write an article about TK:EM I have some other ideas too. I will ask @packmule3’s permission If I can post the link for you to see and she can erase it later.
Hi @Cleopatra, I believe it should be no problem posting a link to your blog or document here. As long as the contents are decent and relevant to this blog. 🙂
I’m happy that you’re a literature ‘academic’ so to speak and with us here on BOD. I do very basic research but miss the finer points of many references to great classics. Your point of view and vast store of literary references will be invaluable! See you!
♡✧( ु•⌄• )
My dear @GB,
I call myself a historian of the greek civilization which is precise to my humanity studies degree.
Thank you for your encouraging words, mostly because I am realizing at the moment, how my overall studies have affected that point of view.
So these past two days are quite revealing for me 🙂
Have a nice day ahead!