Are we on this Saturday, Ella? 🙂
A. Yes
B. No
C. Maybe
Join us for the rewatch of Episode 6 on Saturday, February 13th.
13:00pm UTC
08:00am EST
05:00am PST
09:00pm Singapore, Philippines
08:00pm Indonesia
03:00pm Greece
12:00am Sydney (Sunday)
08:30pm India
Gifs from kyeomshine’s tumblr.
Since it’s the eve of Valentine’s Day, here’s a fun Trivia Game. You may google the answers if you want. But since this isn’t graded, you don’t have to sweat it.
1. On Valentine’s Day in South Korea, who buys the chocolates to give to the Special Valentine?
A. The Man
B. The Woman
C. Both
2. In “Romeo and Juliet,” what was Juliet’s surname?
A. Capulet
B. Montague
C. Kim
3. Follow-up question:
There’s a city in Italy, that handles about 1000 letters mailed to Juliet on Valentine’s Day. This tradition began almost a century ago when a guardian of Juliet’s tomb decided to reply to the letters left at her grave. Now, volunteers answer and archive these letters. Here’s the link if you want to know about this interesting phenomenon, or read some of the love letters: http://www.julietclub.com
Name this city where the letters are sent.
A. Rome
B. Florence
C. Verona
4. St. Valentine is a patron saint of lovers and beekeepers. He was beheaded under the orders of emperor:
A. Napoleon
B. Maximus
C. Claudius
5. Who created the first Valentine’s Day box of chocolate shaped like a heart?
A. Milton Hershey
B. Domingo Ghirardelli
C. Richard Cadbury
6. What fruit was called a “love apple” because it was believed to be an aphrodisiac?
A. Tomato
B. Durian
C. Mango
7. Who was the Benedictine monk who invented champagne?
A. Veuve Clicquot
B. Dom Perignon
C. Perrier Jouet
8. What major invention was patented on Valentine’s Day?
A. Telephone
B. Refrigerator
C. Typewriter
(Those couples in a long distance relationships are grateful to the inventor.)
9. What other gift often comes with the bouquet of red roses?
A. Chocolates
B. Condoms
C. Lingerie
10. Cupid is the cute cherubim who flies around shooting arrows to make people fall in love. His parents were:
A. Malakas and Maganda
B. Ask and Embla
C. Mercury and Venus
11. What country has a holiday on the 14th of every month?
A. Peru
B. South Korea
C. France
12. When somebody texts you 143-637-823-247, the numbers mean?
A. Your credit card has been charged.
B. A death threat.
C. I love you always and forever thinking about you 24/7.
Hi @pklm3 Thanks! I was about to remind you of opening this thread. I’m certainly up for the re-watch. I hope @Ella will confirm it.
It’s the first day of the Lunar New Year for me, and though we have chosen to not go visiting during this pandemic, we will still start our year with our annual Holy Mass (online unfortunately and without nice, blessed tangerines being given out).
Catch you later!
Normally, I would be there to watch Start-Up with you.
Sorry for the questions.
The only type of board game I don’t like are trivia games. 🙂 🙂 🙂
I can answer this though (without cheating and without looking on the internet) :
1 – In Japan, girls offer chocolates to the boy they want. I learned this in the Japanese movie “Vampire Girl Vs Frankeinstein Girl”.
I guess it’s the same in South Korea.
10 – Cupid aka Eros. None of the answers.
He is the Greek god Eros, son of Ares and Aphrodite (Mars and Venus).
Aphrodite is jealous of the beauty of Psyche and orders Eros to shoot an arrow at her to make her fall in love with the ugliest of men. But by accident, Eros hurts himself with his own arrow, and it is he who falls in love with Psyche.
(I read several articles of Greek mythology a few weeks ago, for the needs of a script, that’s why I still have that in my memory).
11 – The holiday every 14th of the month is not in France! But I would like to. 🙂
Hello @ GrowingBeautifully (GB),
春节快乐 chūnjié kuàilè. Happy Spring Festival (Happy Chinese New Year) !
恭祝新年吉祥，幸福和欢乐与你同在。(gōng zhù xīnnián jíxiáng, xìngfú hé huānlè yǔ nǐ tóng zài). I wish you auspicious New Year, happiness and joy !
I would love to rewatch Start-Up ep. 6 with you, unfortunately I will be home later.
1/The daughter? (otherwise, it’s not funny)
2/Juliette Capulet
3/ Their city (Romeo & Juiette), C. Verona?
4/ Claudius, but it is in fact a pre-Christian feast/holiday. Lupercus Faunus (also called Pan), the god of fertility, celebrated in Rome, whose name comes from the Latin “lupus”, the wolf.
Now that I think, I have to look for the connection between Chinese New Year and Lupercus Faunus, both celebrate the arrival of spring (fecundity, change of season)!
5, 6/ I don’t know
7. Dom Perignon
8 You have given the answer. The telephone?
9. Lingerie disguised as a chocolate box!
10/ Yes, @WEnchanteur, I too did some research a year ago about Greek mythology and I found that in Greek there are more than 300 words to say “love”.
In Greek mythology, in a first version, Eros is the first God born from Chaos, and his birth favored the birth of others. In other variants, he is the son of Aphrodite.
The Aphrodite’s suite includes the Erotes (Eros in the plural), who are gods, each responsible for a type of Love:
– Eros, the god of erotic love and fertility;
– Kharites (Charites) (Χάριτες, Khárites, Charites) (graces are also a kind of muse). The first meaning in Greek mythologie was pleasure of life. It becomes the word charity (Christianism), benevolence, kindness, but also favor;
-Hedylogos (Hedylogus), the god of sweet speech and flattery;
– Hymenaios (Hymenaeus), the god of the wedding ceremony, of the hymen.
– Etc.
From the union between Eros and Psyché is born Hêdonê (Pleasure) (hence the hedonistic word…). This myth represents the union between the human soul and divine love. If Eros represents the desire, the energy of life, Pyché becomes the soul, the spirit, the breath of life.
9/ France – no, it’s absolutely sure
12 Certainly C – since it ends in 247 but I don’t know the logic. 1 is I… 8 is infinity, so forever…
Hello @Packmule3 and everyone!
Happy Chinese Year to all those who celebrate it!
I am in for tomorrow !
P.S. I will try to answer to the questions later on!
@lululatortue Thank you for your many auspicious greetings. I’m definitely all set to have a great year!!
If we want to be funny and ‘crazy’ and informative with the quiz:
1) “Traditionally, women give men chocolates as a sign of affection. And rather than be economical with their purchases, women may actually benefit by spending a lot on men. How? A month later, on March 14th, her man will reciprocate on so-called White Day when he is expected to observe the ‘Rule of Three’ and reciprocate with a gift three-times the value of what he received in February.” Now that’s what I call an investment… however, there’s a whole lot of unspoken messages in what the guy gives back.
“That means he has to spend three times what she spent on him. And not only can he give candy, but also flowers, stuffed animals, lingerie and even jewelry. How he responds signifies what he thinks about the relationship. If he doesn’t give her a present, it means he thinks he’s above her. While if he gives a gift of equal value, rather than go to the power of three, the relationship is over.” https://bigthink.com/philip-perry/singles-in-south-korea-celebrate-their-own-kind-of-valentines-day-and-its-inspiring
2) Capulet
Had to look most of the rest up.
3) Verona which has an inn turned into ‘Juliet’s House’, which is amazing since she never existed!!
4) Claudius (The name Claudius the Cruel certainly suits the guy. Wouldn’t people get married!!!)
5) Cadbury (I’d have thought it would be Ghirardelli just because ‘Domingo’ sounds so romantic!! LOL)
6) Tomato (because it has a heart shape when cut open? I need to observe my tomatoes more!)
7) Dom Perignon (it might have been invented accidentally)
8) Telephone (most appropriately the instrument of communication and comms are most important for any romance!)
9) Chocs (although @lululatortue’s idea of hidden lingerie is interesting … Edible lingerie, anyone?)
10) Mercury and Venus (Other sites had it as Mars and Venus. We know it would have to be one of those Roman gods)
11) S.K. (Probably the place that is most hung up on romantic signs/superstitions/observances)
12) C. (Never knew that this number language had been around for yonks!)
See you later @Cleo!! Am about to have my 2nd big dinner for the Lunar New Year. I wish I was hungrier!!!
Hey my lovely @GB!
Have a beautiful dinner for the Lunar New Year! My best wishes for this day!
We will talk later!
xoxoxo
Hi Everyone,
A. YES
Happy Lunar New Year for everyone who celebrate, this is my first virtual lunar new year doing family greeting through video call. We don’t have big family dinner as well this year.
I’m transferring all the Chinese greetings to the other thread. 🙂
1. B. The Woman
2. A. Capulet
3. C. Verona (what I remembered from Letters to Juliet movie)
4. B./C. definitely not A.
5. C. Richard Cadbury because I think Cadbury is the oldest from the three
6. A. Tomato because it resembles apple the most
7. B. Dom Perignon is the only one I’m familiar with lol
8. A. Telephone because of the hint
9. A. Chocolates if they keyword often
10. C. Mercury and Venus
11. B. South Korea, I think couple celebrate 14th each month
12. C. I love you always and forever, thinking about you 24/7.
Oh! Was it MARS and Venus? Lol. I thought it was Mercury because of the wings. Cupid got the wings from his Dad. 😂 Oh well. Venus didn’t need to prove paternity; she was one of the original “badass” goddesses.
Heck Yes!!! See you all on the rewatch tomorrow.
Fun trivia quiz and thanks for the other insights.
#3 reminded me of the movie “Letters to Juliet”. Love that one!
I thought #10 was a trick question. 😉
I will wear red for V-day and lunar new year!!! Happy Friyay!
I believe “Letters to Julia” increased the number of letters they received.
I really thought it was Mercury and Venus. I had to look for the other couples, “Malakas and Magandba” are from the Philippines’ mythology and “Askr and Embla” are from the Norse mythology. But I took for granted that Mercury was the dad.
You see, there’s this painting by Correggio with Venus and Mercury, and the baby Cupid. Mercury had matching wings on his shoes and helmet. And the baby Cupid had wings on his back. 😂 When I saw the painting, it crossed my mind that the baby inherited the wings from his father’s genes. And it stuck in my head all these decades.
added this:
https://allpainters.org/wp-content/themes/paint/paintings/full/venus-with-mercury-and-cupid-the-school-of-love(2).jpg
source: allpainters.org
It’s difficult to say for sure what are the exact family threes of greek mythology because there is different cosmogony, homere one, orphic one, etc.
From one to the other, some points are contradictory. I don’t remember Aprodite got a love affair with Hermes. As it could be a good choice, because he move very fast and can quickly escape by the windows. But Aphrodite got several love affair. Ares for example, as she was supposed to be maried with hephaistos. And she had some others love affairs.
What I can say is Zeus is by far not only the king of olympians god, but also king of adultery. Each time Hera is looking elsewhere, you can be sure Zeus is having sex with any mortal woman, minor goddess or beautiful mythological female. So, there is a lot of gods/goddess child of Zeus, as well as demi-god heros, and random childs hidden everywhere.
Hermes and Aphrodite did have a sexual relationship at some point, WEnchanteur. That’s how we got the word, “hermaphrodite.” He’s supposedly the offspring of Hermes and Aphrodite.
But whether Hermaphroditus = Cupid, I don’t know anything about that.
@WEnchanteur, I’m feeling more and more ‘educated’ as I read BoD. The god of adultery, indeed! And all the half blood relations make for treacherous couplings. But RL probably trumps fiction … I heard of a horrific case of a father marrying his daughter (after they got rid of her bf)! So her sister is her step daughter?!?!
Packmule3 : Ah yes, that’s right! But their son is hermaphrodite then, not Eros. In one version of the mythology, Eros shoots an arrow at Aphrodite to make her have a love affair with Ares. So it’s contradictory with the fact that he is their son. But in another version, it’s the other way around!
If you research Greek mythology, you can go crazy! There are too many variations and permutations from one version to another.
I chose the mythological story that went with my script (Orphic tradition). I wanted the god Chronos (god of time) to be very different from the titan Cronos (the crazy man who eats his children, aka Saturn). So, it’s quite practical 😉
All these extramarital relationships would be less problematic if on top of that the Gods were not always jealous! While those who are deceived deceive just as much, a strange thing that we find IRL. But it’s good for dramas 😉 Mythology is like an interminable Makjang drama. 🙂 🙂 🙂 It’s normal that it was very successful at the time. 🙂 The Greeks had Temptation of wife, world of the maried, love in sadness and the Last empress without the need of TV. 🙂 🙂 🙂
And whenever a God is jealous, it is always the mortal involved who pays. It’s pretty disgusting. Not to mention all the stories where it doesn’t even take love affair to make a god jealous. If a mortal does something better than a god, the god will always be jealous! Even Athena, the famous goddess of justice. She doesn’t mind turning a mortal into a spider after a weaving contest she lost.
But that is not so immoral if one considers that the gods are only the great archetypes of the features of the mortals. Whether these traits are considered positive or negative. It is a broad painting of the human soul. An inexhaustible source of inspiration for the script.
Yes, @packmule3 and @WEnchanteur,
In fact, there is not one Cupid, but several, each with its precise “function” (what I was saying this morning, I think).
In fact, Erotes is the Greek word (plural of Eros) but in Latin it gives Cupidons.
Hermaphroditos or Hermaphroditus, the effeminate hermaphrodite god is the son of Hermes and Aphrodite and he is part of the Erotes.
For Eros, there are two versions concerning his birth: either he is a primordial god, coming directly from Chronos, or he is the son of Aphrodite, thus the brother of the other Erotes.
Yes, the Greek gods used consanguity and they practiced incest too.
Like the pharaons: the Ptolemies (from a Hellenistic dynasty) married their sister or half-sister or they practiced incest… Besides, this type of relationship lasted until late in the world, I think the cousinhood/ cousinship is still alive in some parts of the world.
It was awful, I admit it. Why am I talking in the past tense, they’re supposed to be alive!
Yes, the Greek gods have influenced the real world, they can do it a little with dramas, to work the climax.
But I confess, from time to time, if there is a creative sublimation somewhere and the c, kdramas and Bollywood become a model of chastity, I’m not going to complain! There are enough violent passions in the real world!
Hi Anybody here yet? I’m here and waiting. (´∇ﾉ｀*)ノ
I’m here! Ella’s here, too.
And yooohooo, @ agdr03. Are you still awake?
And 2uke’s here.
I’m here too! ☺️
@GB! 👋🏻
Hello! … (｡◕‿‿◕｡)
Great to see us all up and ready!! ೭੧(❛▿❛✿)੭೨
What the —? Since when have you started using @ GB’s emoji’s WEnchanteur????
Glad you’re here.
You’re wide-awake, eh? @ agdr03? Let’s see if Janey will wake up. It’s 5 am, California time. lol.
LOL @Wenchanteur @pkml3 … they’re not MY emojis … but yeah, that’s cute @Wenchanteur. Did I maybe inspire you to use them?
I’m here let’s start in 3 minutes
Okie dokei @Ella!
I don’t know, it’s weird, I was looking on this site :
http://asciimoji.com/
After posting, I see GB did the same.
We were connected beyond space and time, probably.
^ ^
But I can’t post more things like that during the watching, not enough time to do this.
Hello,
Everyone. I am really happy that you get to discuss about the Greek Mythology.
As greek myself, I have read a lot. I will agree with @WEchanteur that there many cosmogonies, as for the Orphic one, we know the Humns dedicated to every God.
What I would like to pinpoint though is that there is one Eros (Έρως) as an entity / deity. What is more are the stories about his origins.
To be honest with you, as an academic, I prefer to read the actual written sources. So, I prefer reading Homer’s Iliad and Odyssey and Hesiod’s Theogony.
Especially Hesiod’s Theogony reflects what the first philosophers first quest in Asia Minor was. How the Cosmos was created? Cosmogony.
The fact that the poet Hesiod says [116] “Verily at the first Chaos came to be, but next wide-bosomed Earth, the ever-sure foundations of all the deathless ones who hold the peaks of snowy Olympus, and dim Tartarus in the depth of the wide-pathed Earth, and Eros (Love), fairest among the deathless gods, who unnerves the limbs and overcomes the mind and wise counsels of all gods and all men within them.]
A poet gives an answer to that question of those times. [Read the ancient text translated here: https://www.theoi.com/Text/HesiodTheogony.html#2 ]
We must not forget that we tend to think about those matters with what we know that, and we cannot understand who those people were thinking at that time.
Also, the ancient Greeks were the first ones who made their Gods to have human characteristics, the so called anthropomorphism or ανθρωπομορφισμός.
This conversation is so huge. I have a lot to say, but unfortunately, I cannot write down all the things I can say about the matter.
I have to say that @Packmule3 : In Hellenistic times there was a statue about an Aphrodite with Hermes. Hence the story about their union and Hermaphroditos / ερμαφρόδιτος.
As for God Hymenaios. I have studied the bridal customs in Ancient Greece. God Hymenaios was the god responsible for the union between the couple. There was a song called Hymenaios (Υμεναίος) that they were singing to the bride to be. Do you want to know why?
Υμεναίος > Hymenaios > Υμένας > Hymen. Virginity Hymen of the young bride to be.
As for Charites / Χάριτες. Homer said that they were daughter of Zeus and a Oceanid Nymph Eyrimone.
I didn’t know that they have categorized them under Aphrodite’s territory.
That’s all for now! 🙂
Vroom vroom vroom. I’m warming up the engines of my keyboard.
Hello Ladies,
I am ready for Episode 6 as well! I am really tired, though.
So, I will try to comment as much as I can…
@pkml3, my hand on my mouse is getting sweaty out of the blue! Must be the stress of starting… and it’s 9.00pm SGT!!!
And Gents!
Sorry @WEnchanteur, I didn’t see you before!
I’m wide awake for now? 😂 I have to have a Start Up rewatch, otherwise I’ll break tradition 😆
Hi Cleopatra, and everybody of course.
So it’s launched.
@Cleo, sure, take it easy!
Thanks for the info on the gods. Will read in detail later!!
≧(´▽｀)≦
And so SamSan Tech is on Sandbox!
I’m here!!! Getting my cup of coffee and ready to start up the weekend (literally)!
Hah! JP took the opportunity to run off … coward!
And it was DS who covered for him with such a ‘good’ reason but a lie.
My lovely @GB,
Thank you! <3
That face Dosan made, in his eyes he only sees Dalmi like no one else exist lol
If I remember, JP is not really sure is in love with Dal Mi here ?
Or he don’t know..
Hey @agdr03 and @Janey!
Hi @Janey!
Wish I had some coffee too, but I’m trying to eat less. Too much eating this festive season!!
LOL DS and JP are so unlike ‘bros’.
@Wenchanteur I think at this stage JP is still in denial that he likes DM.
Do San has the right to be mad as JP, but instead he says he isn’t mad at him. Because they are like “bros”.
Do-San-i you are a good person indeed!
Being brothers look like a trap from Dosan…
JP look not feel good with that.
SO Dosan can’t be angry toward JP now, he say.
Look like it bother JP even more…
So cringey this scene where DM wants to preen in front of mum but pretends otherwise. Those poor tourists LOL… can’t even speak English and she’s accosting them for her own purposes.
DM beat In Jae to boasting to mum. Hah!
Some people are saying that JP was in denial about his feelings here. When he told Grandma that he didn’t love Dalmi, he was lying to himself.
So either, he really wasn’t sure.
Or he was sure, but he didn’t want to admit it.
I tend to think that he was in denial because it wasn’t cool to love her of all people. His penpal from his “loser days.”
@Packmule3,
I agree with you about JP being in denial.
Thks GB.
Oh french people here.
“je te jure” he say.
(I swear you)
In Jae has a chip on her shoulders over mum not supporting her as much as DM.
Hah DS is shocked that he got the algorithm to work LOL.
I like that JP just had to go because he saw the hug.
Dosan is the bearer of good news while JP is the cranky pants. 😁
Geeky Do-San with those dorky glasses!
Did Dalmi came to see her mother because she wants to show off or also because she misses her mom?
Anyway JP is denial as a whole. 🙂 🙂 🙂
Denial incarnation.
Does that suit belong to dad?
He was going to tell dad the truth but was interrupted and then couldn’t.
Hah, dad is petty!
They look so good and happy going into Sand Box but what a diff when they walked out…
New Hopes theme music, yooooo!
I like this outdoor amphitheater. It was a site of many open and dramatic conversations…just like what it was meant to be.
I like that Dosan was seated higher than JP. To me it was symbolic of his character. He was taking the “higher ground” in their fight, unlike JP who wanted to be petty.
@Ella, I feel that because of that Networking party, she felt that she had to make good on her bluff. Her mum warned her not to be like dad. DM wanted to prove that her choices were always good to her mum.
Love it! Denial incarnation. 😂 He kept dilly dallying that of course he would lose the girl. He’s so confident about everything else except for his supposed feelings for Dalmi.
Accomplishment ! We did it ! Great ! We are a team !
Accomplishment music please.
Don’t put heart beat on this !
@agdr03 For a guy who was so good in investing in companies, he was lousy in investing in people or even in himself to make himself a better person.
Woo Woa Wooa, crazy ! it’s a chair !
We can sit on a chair ! Woa wooa ! And it’s free !
I wished DS wore those glasses more! 🤓
His happiness at getting the right code to work… “coding has never been this satisfying”!
And being dressed up by the parents on first day of work. LOL!! My parents also think the same. I work in tech so I always dressed down. Working from home further extends that. 😊
This one I don’t get. Why didn’t JP tell Dalmi that Samsan Tech was accepted into SandBox as a finalist? Wasn’t he on the committee?
If he had told her, she would have been grateful to him, and probably hugged him in joy.
But Dosan said it first (lol. Foreshadowing) and he got the hug.
Yeah @Wenchanteur I like the OSTs of this show a lot.
Oh dear foreshadowing of their own meltdown later. They now talk about teamwork so complacently but they are going to do the same thing.
And did you see that hug, @ agdr03? At 1:47?
I like it when the director shot the scene from afar, showing Dalmi dangling from Dosan’s neck, and her feet off the ground.
She looked like Jane swinging from the tree.
No… like that girl on Sandbox logo. Swinging. But she’s swinging from a tree, like Jane, instead of a playground swing.
And that shark wall hanging – that reminded me of their “sailing without a map” theme.
#Sailwithoutamap
So this short scene of the guy leaving, is just here to make caracters say “how can it be possible”.
And then, they will the same error.
So when they do the error, it’s even more surprising.
The desk is a successful product placement in my opinion lol
There are 2 people I don’t care too much for… one is the entitled Sa Ha and the other is shoot the mouth off Chul San.
Hahaha! Thunder appropriate.
@Ella yes that was great PPL for Desker.
I really like Dir Yoon, she soothes without making anyone look bad or small. She gives Dong Cheon a good chance.
They both have a chip on their shoulder.
I thought it was funny when Dalmi was eyeing her sister’s office and wondering if it was bigger than hers. She hadn’t even gone into her office to look around so how would she know the size difference?
The boys ran ahead of her, and she stopped in front of her sister’s office.
Disagreeable Saha and this “cat” sounds!
True @GB. He didn’t have it in him and if it wasn’t for Grandma, he probably still won’t learn about it.
So JP the guy who do nothing is life is giving harsh advice to people about what they should do. ^ ^
@pkml3 IKR, DM was more intent of finding out if she was losing out and wanting to crow over her sister, than she was in setting up office properly.
jp was ruffled by Dosan’s remark and he took it out during work meeting on his assistant.
Precisely @WEnchanteur, ironical isn’t it.
Can’t stand Sa Ha who walks out so unprofessionally.
Chul San is also silly over a girl but he accuses DS of it after this.
The contrast in the scene between JP and his yelling and Director Yoon’s advice.
Sa Ha believes that she above them. But she fell for Chul-San, the guy who thought is silly.
But I like the way that Dosan came out running and asked her if she was okay, the second they heard the crashing sound from one of the newbie Start Up.
He just doesn’t see anybody else other than Dalmi. lol.
@JP has not really gone past being that boy with a huge chip on his shoulder.
And here’s IJ with her dad chip on her shoulder. She’s right about that step dad though.
@Ella, Oh right ! I didnt realize that.
Damn, JP is worse when rewatching the drama.
Thanks JP, you are a so fun and good paintball target !
🙂
Here is when IJ steals the memory of Dal-Mi and uses it as her own to enter Sandbox.
Yes @pkml3, he was the only one to ask where DM was and then they heard the crash.
Here’s IJ stealing the memory of her younger sister. Brazenly.
Alex is confused LOL 2 fathers!
Heheheh! @Cleo I said almost exactly the same thing!!
I think, Ella, she went to see her mom primarily for her Dad — to show off that Daddy’s Daughter didn’t do so badly for herself, so the mom should take back what she said during the Networking party that her dad was a “bluffer” who didn’t have any plans.
She was fighting for her dad’s honor, too.
But of course, she probably missed her mom, too, and wanted her mom to be proud of her.
JP was not a good manager at all! No ounce of constructive feedback. Ms Yoon placating his employee by explaining why he sounded like that but she has never reprimanded JP – ah! That’s my beef with Ms Yoon!!! She tolerated JP’s toxic attitude in the workplace.
Yeah @GB! 🙂
Alex’s shock LOLOL. I just like to watch his eyes bulge out and all the expressions mimed.
Dalmi is the apple of his eye since meeting her and reading her letters.
Yeah, that hug scene was just as you described! Dalmi being shown as the little girl on the Sand Box profile. For me, she’s dangling from a tree that never let her go. ☺️
Hah! JP has no clue that in DM’s eyes he’s quite the good guy. DS has done him such a big favour by painting him as a great guy in DM’s eyes.
At least she had the right guess that JP might have liked her. A woman usually knows.
Dalmi – I want you JP… I WANT YOU.
O o
oh oh oh she want me.. bobom bobom.
🙂
After he get angry, isnt it noble idiocy or something like that ?
Or he is angry because he don’t want to admit what he feel even more ?
I think the suit was new but I could be wrong.
It’s cute that he said nobody dressed up in suits at Sand Box…and then Dalmi walked in wearing a suit, too. lol. So Dalmi and Dosan’s dad thought alike. You have to look professional at work.
But yeah, for programmers I know always dress up like it was casual Friday everyday. At first, it drove me nuts, but hey, they weren’t meeting clients and as long as they get their job done right and efficiently, I don’t mind anymore.
Yes Janey, I feel the same way at first I just feel she was nice and they want to show his contrast to jp, but the way she excused and let everything slide was not actually good for jp because he would never learn what’s wrong. She’s an enabler.
LOL the guys can’t believe she passed up 2STO for the local guy who is actually NOT Family!! LOLOL.
lol lol
I will be your sherpa, and you will suuuuuuuufer !
🙂
Heheheh! what a painful family meeting between bros JP and DS … and the lightning and thunder strikes again. Much foreshadowing LOL.
Even my manager dresses down terribly everyday.
JP is being an a**…But Dal-Mi doesn’t understand it.
LOL
Chusan like “you could choose gold, why did you choose shit” ?
This guy has no manner, and always giggle nervously.
Agree. I thought that desk — Desker — was a product placement. But it was well-integrated into the plot. Coming from their cave, this was a major upgrade.
I like how Dosan, who suffered from (what kind of neck?) didn’t think of buying himself better chair or desk for work. There was no money to spend on himself.
But there was a coffeemaker. lol. And game station, right? for the team. And air-conditioning.
We have the bottle of milk and lightnighs.
Foreshadowing what will happen next…
@Ella – yes that’s the word, Ms Yoon as enabler!
DM explaining why she chose JP as mentor.
Here, she has “mentor-zoned” JP already. 😂
Though JP always give harsh advice n mean words, he was only really stating the facts.
Haha, JP looked petty n a bully here, hard pinching Dosan’s face 😀
@Cleo LOL that the bro does not know the name of DS’s family members Heheheh! DM should have guessed.
Oh that horrible ad!
@Janey LOL mentor-zoned!!! Dir Yoon is so generous!
Hah the talk on staying together forever – like married couples that get divorced … they didn’t last the next 10 minutes as a team together.
@GB,
I think Dal-Mi thought that they were teasing each other.
But for the rest of us it was so obvious…
He was mad being there. @2uke JP states facts but with an awful way.
He could do it much better, like Director Yoon.
JP festival. You are so stupid, you say alwyas stupid things.
He like so much to play the intelligent guy by making other people stupid.
@Cleo yup, there’s always a better way to say things but JP never bothered.
That’s also what gets me fed up with Chul San… he didn’t have to mouth off in such a crude way.
@GB,
Chul san was awful in this scene.
JP Walking out like that when the guys are fighting is not right. He should have given advice in the room instead of having DM run out after him.
CS and YS sigh… In Jae kicking sister when she’s down.
In Jae is a bully as much is JP.
Ok the plot twist.
JP do nothing for helping except to say : Dal Mi, you are the problem.
Thanks for the advice mentor. 🙂
JP was a bully. That pinching of the face?
There should be HR rules about touching colleague’s faces. I wouldn’t even touch my staff’s shoulder if I want to get his/her attention. 🙂 But then I’m a stickler for rules in the office.
And did you notice the THUNDER and lightning? Well, somebody on twitter said it was the god’s sign of favoring JP (ergo the writer favored JP as the endgame).
When I was told of that theory (where’s Diane?), I laughed. Because all along, I interpreted the rain and thunder as signs of JP’s jealousy and envy for Dosan. I even wrote about it.
No need to say who was right…
Yes Desker is a PPL, Nam Joo-hyuk is their brand ambassador. It was successfully integrated and actually my friends is looking for similar stuff in ikea because of it lol..
@Cleo
I’m glad that DM shows her mettle by getting up and working it out on her own. She asked JP so many questions but he was sleeping instead of mentoring.
I like the advice on filtering out noise. True for many things that we do.
Both DM and DS say that they do not want to make the other regret their choices. Like-minded!!
And in a way, JP also created the problem by giving his advice about parts without preparing the situation, and possibles issues…
@Cleopatra I think JP is not the Mr Nice Guy but the Nasty superior that ppl generally dislike. Yes, agree that Director Yoon is much more empathetic and friendly.
Both Grandma and JP say that DM was looking for answers that do not exist. Wonder if JP got that idea from Grandma.
@GB,
Do-San always has Dal-Mi’s back.
That was a mentoring advice. “Don’t listen to the noise. Filter it out.”
Because some things stresses us out and they shouldn’t.
The money plant represents DM in that scene. Although the plant is in his apartment, it and DM does not belong to him. It was a gift to DS. She’s really like a plant that’s growing well as she works out a solution.
@WEnchanteur – I agree! Instead of logically explaining what can be done on the stock distribution, he had to intersperse it with “stupid” and condescension. Hence, the situation became rife with conflict and finger pointing.
That’s a good point @Cleo … DS acted more like a mentor than JP did.
@2uke,
I agree with you. He is not Leader material. As I have said many times before, he is money oriented.
He believes that people who are Vision are losers, like Dal-Mi and Do-San.
In the end, he understood though, that Vision-Oriented people are the ones who make the world spin a bit more…
I hated that part, WEnchanteur.
That clinched it for me. JP was a lousy mentor.
1. He can’t be a mentor if he believes his mentee has no room for improvement. What’s the point of the whole mentorship?
2. He can’t be a mentor if he spreads negativity in his meetings. A mentor presents POSITIVE experiences as valuable teaching, not negativity.
3. As a mentor, he should know that negative attitude BRINGS DOWN the performance of others.
Who were the doofuses on twitter saying JP’s behavior was normal. They were normalizing toxicity. Geez.
“Know the problems, giving the solution.”
Dal Mi is so scholar.
Here she s reading the basic useless web site about vague consultants leitmotiv. I never found any good content on this kind of web site. It’s just promo blabla.
LOL the shivering and trembling. I wondered if it was so cold that they’d not be able to get up LOL.
That was so unfair that the company pushes the blame on the new young guy with no power, who is then forced to come up with 100 million won.
LOL that 6 Million Dollar man sound of super strength!
@Packmule3, the more I rewatch this drama, the more JP is becoming my favorite character ! It’s too fun to watch him doing the wrong things.
It’s not surprising to you if I say I liked so much the movie Whiplash.
My problem with Director Yoon is that she was so clueless about JP’s behavior. She was the type of director who only saw the good in people, and thus, she really wouldn’t be a good “manager” of people.
She’s lucky that she had “doormats” as employees. If she had been working here in the US, she would be in deep shit, too, for condoning JP’s behavior and turning a blind eye to it simply because JP was one of her top performers.
The guys are such good friends to each other, but when they fight, they are like kiddies pulling hair and biting each other LOL. Cant’ imagine that they’re in their 20s.
Was it the JP’s assistant that said JP playing mentor is like asking a Professor to teach elementary ABCs… JP definitely not Mentor material cos he only sees money 🤑
I like this transition scene where the bare room became and office for 3 guys.
@pm3 – JP is the anti mentor!
What does pig symbolize (it was on the laptop image” in their altar? Prosperity?
I like flashback on how Dosan helped his friends and was there for them. Now he’s there for Dalmi. CS and YS trying to protect him from perceived collusion of DM and JP on the stocks.
@2uke Yes it was Dong Cheon who said that. It was like getting a professor to teach an elementary kid. He was over qualified (or he wanted to be believed to be over qualified). But Dir Yoon said that he inspired her to be a mentor too.
Hey, where’s @ Diane??
Diane, Just want to tell you that I’m about to buy a product from a kdrama. A book of illustration from the kdrama “W: Two Worlds.” It’s on kindle.
And I stand corrected. I do in fact buy something from kdramas. Songs from itunes!!
But if ever I start merchandizing for dramas, I know the very first person to sell them to. You.
🙂
End of the twist, they reconciliate.
At least, this painful didnt last long.
I’m stuck on the 4th episode after the FL loose taste feel in Jewel in the Palace. (in a chef food drama, main caracter always loose taste at one point).
In the interim of the night when CS says he does not trust DM to the morning when suddenly he says he trusts DS … seems that CS suddenly changed his mind or did so only when DS was telling him to.
What the time segment of this “pig,” Janey?
Yes. I like how Dosan helped Chulsan’s ransomware.
See this is why I don’t get why they thought JP should be with Dalmi. If I hear a man speak the way JP did, that’s lots of warning bells going off. 😆 He even said he was mean to SamSan Tech to Yeong-sil.
I really didn’t like Dalmi’s sister too especially after claiming to be the little girl in the Sand Box.
jp was lucky Dalmi never saw how he actually treated Dosan.
@WEnchanteur… lost their sense of taste? Hmmm have not heard of that before. Sense of smell, yes.
And here we see that SH is doing what will lose her the 7% later.
The flashbacks of SST also showed that they had fights/scuffles like these (kind of childish in reality but the exaggeration in the kdrama makes it comedic) and DS always the peacemaker or finds a way to calm them down.
Ah! Still here, JP gave an advice I liked about “how to be a President”.
Even if before that, he make his usual theatral role “blabla your book is so useless”… Make choices.
CS being the foolish childish lout gets it good in his eyes.
Actually I didn’t know milk would explode like that.
He’s getting it back for being so mean the day before.
Yes. Same here, @ GB. I like how that transition scene was edited.
As more and more coding was done, more and more furniture was added to Dosan’s spartan office space.
It meant that two friends were being integrated into the company and becoming part of Samsan Tech, not only as stakeholders but also as family members.
They were Samsan Tech family.
@GB I took Director Yoon’s words in another way… hahaha becos there are so many mean money-minded VCs like JP, there have to be some good Sherpa? so there she is
When Chul San reacts like a child.
“Don’t open the milk”, Do-San told him. Because he is childish and selfish he does!
@pm3 – the pig at the altar offering/blessing of Dosan Tech at 49:43
Overthetop comedy scene. Not my thing. But the idea of milk was good.
There is a reason for that scene, or maybe more than one.
At least, it lead to elmoeny going out and we learn she become blind.
@pkml3 Yes, DS is good in being and forming family, but JP in spite of years being cared for by Grandma never considered her family or made a family for himself even with nice Dong Cheon.
Dont’ know whether to pity JP that his only friend is Yeong Sil.
Lol that kiss on the doctor.
True.
I like this flashback.
Youngsan quit his job and took his severance pay. And sold his scooter. for Chulsan.
He was doing it as a sacrifice.
But as soon as he heard that Dosan already solved the problem anyway, he began fistfighting.
It’s a different take on “fair-weather friends.” lol. They were there for each other during the bad times, but the good news got them fighting.
We were crying from laughter in the scene on the doctor…
@WEnchanteur yes the milk explosion was so that DS would meet Grandma coincidentally in the day time before he again would see her that night. That was the only way that they’d recognise each other and her blindness could come out in the open very economically in terms of time in the episode.
I like the DM stare down against SH. Love this scene.
Big cold girl will learn to obey to president. Ah ah !
Stop your snobish attitude now !
“seriously” ? She like to put some english wording to be more stilish.
I hope Dosan had extra scrubbers for grandma since he used the red one for CS’s face! LOL!
Chulsan is easily triggered but i think after he calmed down he can think more rationally. He’s also thinking for Dosan and what if Dalmi found out later about the letter. At the end of the day he knew he can trust Dosan.
The friendship is solid right from the beginning even with the fighting. ☺️
Dosan is a savior too right from the beginning.
Ah. Thanks Janey.
Dosan wasn’t born in the year of the pig, was he?
I thought the pig represented money, wealth and good luck. Maybe they had the pig because they were praying for money, wealth, good fortune, and success of Dosan’s venture.
That’s my take. 🙂
@WEnchanteur the actress Stephanie is really from the US I think. She speaks American English.
Loved how proud DS was of DM when she stood up for her decision like a CEO.
And here she does the same with JP. Tells him to his face … that she decided and too bad that he’s the one who is the only critic.
JP advice come back in his face like a boomerang. lololol !
lol. I didn’t even know that spoiled milk exploded. Did you, WEnchanteur?
1989 (Dosan’s year of birth) is the year of Snake not Pig.
Just like DS, DM is also into family and being one team. So now it’s time for DS to meet Grandma. It was going to be a good move to fix the bug before it cropped up … but Grandma had other plans.
Actually, why can’t Grandma just let DM know she’s going blind. It would have shortened the drama, but in RL, one should tell one’s family and not hide something like that.
I said the same thing @pkml3 … I didn’t know milk could explode like that.
Now for that long look full of meaning from the wonderful actress who plays grandma.
The three guys were true friends.
Dal-Mi showed character to everyone.
And the RBG sponges!
Agh!!! This scene made me mad.
Dosan is the only guy to take the right decision about letters, but…
– JP don’t want, maybe because it’s a chance to get Dalmi later.
– WOrst : Elmoeoni ! Elmoeni is so annoying, perpetuating the lie. Damn Elmoeni. She’s already blind.
Goodness.
I was laughing because Dosan couldn’t help smelling his fingers. lol. If that was spoiled milk, the smell would be nasty.
I don’t think I ever worried about milk spoiling in the fridge. Growing up with brothers, and raising sons, we were always running out of milk.
@pkml3, I believe you’re right. I’ve not looked it up, but I believe that the head of a pig is ‘offered’ during the prayer that asks for blessings on a new enterprise. Even kdramas have the booting ceremony, with also I think a pig’s head on an ‘altar’. Being hi tech they used a tablet with a drawing of a pig LOL.
DS+DM = team, no matter what. Even defying JP at times (many times!)
Dosan was gagging though lol.. I love that OTT reaction in front of the doctor’s office. These boys are just pure fun together.
@WEnchanteur, yes I feel that Grandma caused quite a bit of problem when she wants to shield DM. *sigh*
Did you go back and watch all the epilogues that you missed?
More thunder!!! Fore warning.
Oooh. You’re good, Ella!! Do you have a dossier on Dosan and Dalmi?
No wonder you’re our president! 🙂
@packmule3. Huh ?
Sorry I didnt understand what you said about spoiled milk exploded ?!??
If I know that before ?
I had a pack of milk opened then I let it for week and week like that. When I opened it, there was a geyser, but not as big as in the drama.
Now , this bootle is not a pack but real bootle + exposed to sun. So I can believe that.
Director Yoon witnessing the suicide fall should be so shocking for her.
@Ella, I love that detail in the acting that the smell was bad and it was not forgotten for the scene.
Hey @Ella! *waves*
The ruckus that they made at the clinic 😂 but it got them on the back right track! 👍🏻
Dalmi the CEO making a stand and taking it up with Saha! Loved it! 🙌🏻
@agdr03 yup that standing up to SH was my fave scene of this episode. Can’t stand characters who are entitled and arrogant.
@GB, no I forgot to watch end scene episode 1 to 4. I should. Some work!
😉
Yes. Stephanie Lee is American. I have a soft-spot for her. She said that when she had to speak English for a role in a drama, she always had to drawl her accent her because directors expected it. 🙂
Did Ms Yoon witnessed the suicide at the bridge or was that just her imagination?
LOL @WEnchanteur, you’ve got homework before next Saturday!!
Poor Stephanie! I’ve seen her in one other show before. She spoke English too there.
@Packmule3 : note one thing about end scene here.
It’s river han bridge.
Remember W episode 3, there is a paper in Oh sung Moo documents saying it’s the bridge with most suicides in korea. And same bridge using by Kang chul for comiting suicide.
😉
@Cleopatra 👋🏻 hahaa..
I watched their scenes only mostly when I rewatch 🤭
@Janey, I believe she did see the suicide take place. So she’s not surprised to see the white chrysanthemum tied with a black ribbon there one year later. It was the anniversary of the guy’s suicide.
Wooof, an episode is so short when watching with you here !
I feel more drama hunger now.
LOL @WEnchanteur, yes, the 1.5 hours passed quickly. Watching alone it felt a bit long.
Thanks everyone for this fun Watch Party!!
We’ll see each other next week, yes?
About Stephany : thin and tall girls like that are not my type, but I enjoy her caracter, and she’s so classy and beautiful. She would miss to the team. Also, it’s a bit more comedy. Natural situation or interaction comedy, just what I like.
Yeah, to this rewatch party !
@GB, I am in! 🙂
I am enjoying our company so much! Have a nice morning / evening / night everyone!
It’s funny that you mentioned pigs on an altar.
I’ve been to dinners (I won’t mention the country) where a roasted pig would be served to the guests. Sometimes the severed head of the pig would be displayed in a prominent place.
The head of the pig would always remind me of the scene in “Lord of the Flies” when the pig’s head was stuck on a stake and the lost boys were supposed to pray to it like it was god (actually the devil, in this book).
Now, I can look at decapitated pig’s head with a poker face. I even had a taste (just a small bite) of the crunchy tip of an ear. lol.
But I’m glad that no actual pig was injured in the making of this kdrama. hahaha.
@GB
Yes, next week I would be able to contribute more. I’m on the road now using my phone so can’t type much.
@pkml3 I Googled it: https://www.dramasrok.com/2020/07/modern-gosa-korean-shamanic-ritual-with-pigs-head/#:~:text=%EA%B3%A0%EC%82%AC%20Gosa,wishing%20for%20a%20successful%20business.
“This ritual involves arranging food on an alter as an offering for the spirits. The essential part is a pig’s head and traditionally guests put money in the pig’s mouth. Then they bow at the alter to the household gods wishing for a successful business.”
So, yes,…pretty much what we said it was.
WEnchanteur,
I’m on Episode 8 of “W.” I’m trying to catch up as fast as I can so I can open a thread.
And you’re right! It’s the same Han bridge! It didn’t register on me till now. lol.
@Ella are you in a bus, car or train?
lol. Thanks, GB, for googling this.
We were right on the money. 🙂
The episode was about the beginning of the friendship, Dalmi deserving to be the CEO and JP being his usual self, that is rude.
Thanks for the rewatch everyone! Good morning/afternoon/evening!
😊👋🏻
@pkml3,… practically every kdrama with a jumping off the bridge in Seoul scene … will make references to the Han River bridge. It’s such a busy driveway as well and such a common spot for suicides.
But @ agdr03, who was the “key man” in this episode? That’s the title, right, and the whole point of JP.
JP believed that Dalmi should be the key man. But Dalmi knew that even if she was the CEO, Dosan was really the key to the whole team.
And this episode proved it. 🙂
BTW, this is when I received a couple of hate emails from JP fans for siding with Dosan. lol.
@PM3 and @GB – thanks for the references on the pig’s head!
Thanks again for the rewatch everybody!!! Looking forward to next week, it’s ep7 ( the rooftop kiss 😘).
Happy Valentine’s weekend!
Yes. I’m watching “W” and I’m not sure if the subbers on Viki were translating or annotating/commenting that the bridge now had encouraging words written on the railing to dissuade would-be jumpers.
Happy Valentine’s weekend, Janey!!
lol. This is fun, isn’t it, Janey? Worth waking up for at such an early hour on a weekend.
Yes! 100% that Dosan was the key man because he was the key to put everything back in place. Even Dalmi trusted him and totally ignored JP’s advice. That says a whole lot.
No wonder you got hate mails. 😂
Safe travels, Ella!
Same time next week then.
@pkml3 Good old Google has stuff on the anti-suicide messages too.
http://koreabizwire.com/slogans-for-suicide-prevention-removed-from-mapo-bridge-after-7-years/146427
Seems that they may not have done much good and were removed. A 2014 article claims that the number of suicides increased rather than decreased after the messages were put up.
So kdramas with the messages in them might be before 2018.
I’m in the car @GB
@packmule3
They sent you hate emails? What did you do with it? Trash it right away or did you read it first? Was any of the argument supported by logical explanation lol
Happy Valentine’s Day! ❤️❤️❤️
@PM3 – yes, couldn’t agree more! Love the company. Saturday early mornings are now my kdrama time while the whole house is still sleeping 😴
@packmule3, the whole drama is very very dense. In one episode, it tell what take 4 episodes in another drama. Episode 3 is cut in so many scenes, including a giant panorama of flashback/montage scene, when they read Oh Sung Moo notes. It’s made like a movie. A giant movie of 16 episodes, and a fast paced one on top of that. Even what I call the “calm down” episode, aka episode 6 is amazing for density, and get one of the best scene of the drama, when OYJ go to the restaurant toilet. Very psychological scene as she plunge into the water (symbol of subconcient) looking for a real desire : Kang Chul. Just before she was on the way to look for other guys, and it was weird to see her doing that, then we get the answer short after. At the end of the scene, she look herself in the miror, and there is smaller miror where she’s also reflected. OH sorry, I’ve have to stop here, I could comment every scene of this drama with lot of details about what is so good, why, how.
Episode 8 was my favorite for long. The kang chul report scene about the killer was genius. The real killer… ITA (exist). Then he figure what is this guy. Just the best killer of all time, If you compare it to other fantastic killers like hallowen, friday 13, etc. Just because he’s purpose for killing is just because… It’s his function into the story. So he don’t need another background, motivation, explanation. It’s totaly meta. Well, of course, when I watch that, I become crazy about the show and fall in love for this piece of art. Everything is always deep with a two or three reading level. Even for comedy scenes, playing on meta too.
But one day I figured out that episode 9 was quite as good.
Bye @Cleo! See you!! °˖✧◝(⁰▿⁰)◜✧˖°
WOrds on the bridge.
Yes, it’s an official directive from korean governement, because there is too many suicides in korea, and on this bridge particularly.
So, they engraved words of hope on the bridge, to help people find hope instead of jumping.
I don’t really have lots of time to read emails and posts, Ella. Most newbie posts would end up in the spam box waiting for moderation. I usually read the first sentence (or as much as gmail or wordpress would allow me to preview) and then I either skip or open it.
Sometimes, the newbie gets lucky because his/her email is on top of the pile (I read from the top to bottom or latest to oldest)
I only give myself 10 minutes on new mails/posts every morning, so unless the poster is saying something to grab my attention, I must skip.
So for these two hate emails, I must have read the emails because I remember what they were protesting about. It was actually too bad for them that I opened their emails. Their emails boomeranged on them because they just hardened my position that Dosan was meant to be the endgame. lol.
Opps, GB answered as I was writing.
Yeah, they discovered that it wasnt really effective for prevention, sadly.
Oh? The real killer really existed, WEnchanteur? He’s not the politician, is he?
I’m still at the very beginning of Ep 8. Kang Cheul was listening on the phone to someone saying that he’d put a hole in her head. But his words were being written in the air as the stranger spoke.
Thanks for the heads-up.
Damn, sorry ! I gave you a spoiler.
You’ll see, it’s a simple scene (with the piano goosebump music).
Kang Chul just type a report on his computer.
I let you enjoy the show and I shutup now !
Bye bye everyone.
lol. Don’t worry about spoilers, WEnchanteur.
I don’t mind spoilers.
Besides, “W” was televised 4? 5 years? ago. It’s my problem if I haven’t finished the show by now. lol.
I’m rewatching episode 8 right now, just for fun.
Anyway watching it 21th times or 20th times, what does it change ?
When I rewatch that, Im just like children, able to reread endlessly the same story.
^ ^
Kind like an improvised rewatch. 😉
Hi All! Huhu I missed both the Twitter and BOD watch parties. Was out of town and signal was weak then hubby surprised me with an advance valentine’s date so no mobile the whole night.
I love reading all your comments. I remember this episode all too well. I hope there’s another rewatch party. I’ll make sure to join!
@pm3 I remember the thunder and the Gods theory. Haha!
On kdrama merch, knew it! For a big fan like you impossible that you don’t have at least one item. I bet even president Ella has a lot. *wink*
Sorry I missed the rewatch episode- I am near the end of Korean Odyssey – which again is about the interaction of the Heavenly sphere and the Mortal realm. It kept reminding me of Euripides and Shakespeare’s play with Pyramis and Thisbe. Packmule3 – taking your advice and getting to know screen writers