By special request.
The thread is now open for spoilers, comments, analyses, and eye candies!!!
lol. This guy reminds me of Ok Taecyeon. He’s Kwak Dong Yeon.
This is Ok Taecyeon. No oppa-ing now.
This thread is curated by @Janey, @grace, and @Fern. Ha! They’re THREE MOTHERS representing three continents (“The Triad”) so please mind your P’s and Q’s.
Enjoy the show!
Thank you, @packmule3, for the thread and also for the reminder to be respectful, polite and NO FAN WARS.
Just email me if I need to delete a post. 🙂
I’ll try to screen them but once they’re in, they’re in. Just let me know when there’s problem. Probably none, but you can never tell when there are three actors with their own fan base.
Have fun!
I only finished Ep1, first impression this drama is the dramatic OTT kind with it’s characters and storyline.
but I’m not expecting fanwar from this one though lol..
I can’t ‘oppa’ them, they are doensaengs!!! LOL. I did watch 1 and a half episodes. I’m not sure that I’ll continue, but I’d love to read your take on the show. ∩(︶▽︶)∩
I just decided to give this a pass after a bleh of ep 1 didn’t pull me in, and then I saw Kwak Dong Yeon! Ajsksjasjksajjsjsjsjajsjskkkk…. he exudes more charisma than SJK in that gif alone 🤧🤧 urgh, I am in doubt. Hmmm…. hmmm…. I am really not buying both leads’ comic timing despite loving the FL in Be Melodramatic. SJK … something is just off. Hmmm …. hmmm…. KDY vs the leads… stressssssss
I agree with @Miracle23: Something is off in this drama. I saw 1.5 episodes and I’m not sure if the atmosphere the director and writer is aiming for is thriller/crime or comedy. There are many inconsistencies – for a super smart mafia lawyer, how can SJK’s character get conned into losing his luggage and money the moment he lands in Korea? That taxi driver looked suspicious even to me. I thought he deliberately did that to put the Italian mafia off his trail, but then he went and did a public campaign on social media. I always thought mafia types were super secretive. I don’t like the characters in the apartment – I’m not sure if they are meant to be weird, scary or funny. I’ll stick to checking out Sisyphus and am going to drop this one.
I found it hilarious that the driver who robbed the lead the moment he landed in Korea was played by SJK’s cast member in his recent Netflix movie Spacesweepers.
If the ratings increase I wonder if Lee Kwang Soo and other friends of SJK will make a wacky cameo appearance?
I immediately became attracted to Vincenzo when I worked out the irony of the breakfast on the terrace music. It’s the “Intermezzo” from Mascagni’s opera “Cavalleria Rusticana” (“Rustic Chivalry”). The nasty mafia boss who calls Vincenzo “ragazzo” (little boy) can’t be feeling very chivalrous, nor can Vincenzo himself, but the music suits the surrounding pastoral landscape – until Vincenzo changes it at the drop of a cigarette lighter. I liked that.
In fact, Western music punctuates/interprets the action throughout the first two episodes. There’s a shock/horror motif, taken (I think) from a violin partita of JS Bach, there’s a disruptive/disturbing three-chord motif taken from the beginning of “The Chorus of the Hebrew Slaves” from Verdi’s opera “Nabucco”, there’s a reference to the tender aria “Il mio tesoro intanto” from Mozart’s opera “Don Giovanni”, and the giggle-worthy use of part of the overture to Rossini’s opera “The Thieving Magpie” which becomes clear in the light of what follows. This is a comedy, after all, even if it is in fact dark, which it is.
Why include these direct references to the Western musical tradition? How many people will pick them up? I only do it because I worked in music for a number of years and I have a reasonably wide listening experience. But to a general East Asian audience, as well as a general Western audience? I think most of the references will just pass by. I can’t see the point.
However, I can see the point of casting the two main leads as they are. Fresh from “Space Sweepers”, Song Joong-Ki does tremendously well as Vincenzo Cassano, a name which naturally becomes changed to Casanova (the noted womaniser and father murderer) by those who don’t know. I think I’m going to enjoy this character, which the actor plays with such style and aplomb, together with an excellent garroting technique. I was taken completely aback by the ease with which Vincenzo sweeps the gang leader through the open window. Congratulations to the stunt team.
I wonder if Jeon Yeo-Bin practices her running style, or does it come naturally? Whichever, it’s rather brilliant. She builds her way of movement effectively into her character, and her range of small-muscle expression is wonderful. I’ll enjoy her character as well, I’m sure.
I had to work just a little bit to get my dark comedy hat on, but after the first visit to the security agency, and the business with the absent agent’s arm and the bread knife, I realised that “Vincenzo” won’t be an ordinary Mafia drama.
Which is just as well, perhaps. Depending on the next couple of weeks,
and my time commitments, I might just replace “Hello, Me” with “Vincenzo”. However, I’d like to keep them both.
Thank you @Juriel for the names of the famous music & tunes that I recognized but couldn’t remember the titles or at least have not gone to search for the titles till this show. I have heard the classical music and opera arias in the background before and love the grandeur of it. The shower scene was pretty hilarious, it was not your usual shower scene.
I have not watched much black comedy but any comedy attracts me. I loved the stark contrast this drama is bringing on.
Some notes off my disorganized brain in the middle of the night when I should be sleeping…
– The contrast of Vincenzo as being a powerful member mafia in Italy and being reduced to a vulnerable guy in Korea.
In Italy, all his moves are well calculated. His predicts his assassins, and hides before they could kill him in his room. He is one step ahead of his brother and knows to flee before they come after him. He is like ultimate cool and mafia like.
In Korea, he is laughed at for his name, falls into the trap of the fraud and was robbed, got his hand stuck to chewing gum, is at the mercy of the sputtering shower head, disturbed by the pigeon at his window.
THIS contrast is the basis for what makes his situation in Korea feel like he is a fish out of water, especially with that mish mash party of tenants in the building. A Korean who is a stranger in his own country. From such a high position, almost brought low with all these unfortunate incidents when he returned to his homeland.
The other contrast is Cha-Young. I know a lot people find her character (or acting?) over the top, loud and exaggerated. I personally find her really fun. She is smart, in your face and not afraid to speak her mind…though a bit too much. She gives off a vibe of rebellious teenager with her dad though. She is such a huge contrast to the cool and collected Vincenzo. I look forward to what their characters will do to make sparks fly through their contrasting personalities.
In the opening animation there is a quote: Un diavolo scaccia l’altro – One devil drives out another.
I have been wondering about the character development. Vincenzo is powerful and savvy in Italy but not in Korea – the contrast is stark. From what I could see, he seemed to have a bond with his adoptive father, not just as a son, but had a similar temperament and way of doing business so that the father trusted him. He disagrees with his brother, being against involving women and children in ‘business’ activities. He rather gently shoos that annoying pigeon away from his window using his phone. But he’s no saint.
The gold is the issue. Allegedly the Chinese tycoon who had him advise on how to hide the stash of gold is dead. Vincenzo asked the building owner if he would like to join him in retrieving the gold for themselves. He advised the building owner to ‘get rid of’ any witnesses to the construction and hiding of the gold. He is breaking trust with the Chinese man if he succeeds in claiming the gold. He hasn’t consulted about a will or trust document to do with the tycoon as far as I can tell. Yet for himself, Vincenzo repeatedly asks the tenants and their lawyer for their trust. He says he represents the owner of the building but yells ‘Questo edificio e mio’ which none of the bystanders seem to understand. He is saying that it’s *his* building.
Cha-Young’s character has gone from being a fairly normal, happy looking child to being quite a ruthless attorney who can overlook innocent people being killed or injured if they don’t get out of the way of her corrupt client. Why did she change? Was she like In-Jae in Start-up, fed up with a father who can’t provide for his family? Yet in ep. 2, she breaks down and runs to save her father when she thinks he might be killed.
Hong Yoo-chan, Cha-Young’s father has a reputation for fighting for the underdog. He explains that his law firm is called Jipuragi because he is the last straw for people to clutch when all else has failed. I don’t get the impression that he is very successful. He has one public defense client who seems to be Vincenzo’s birth mother. He feeds Vincenzo – the only time we see V. getting a full meal and relaxing in public. He seems unperturbed by V. dangling the ANT leader out of the window. Is he a bit of a Robin Hood type?
The owner of Babel Pharma. seems odd; rather distant. If he is the head of the company, who is punishing him in the hockey rink? It seemed almost S&M, but the show probably won’t go there. (I hope.)
I don’t know what to think about the other woman Choi Myung-hee, who joins the Woosang law firm as a Senior Partner. She seems to dislike everyone. She understands bad morals but seems to be able to overlook them if she has enough freedom and pay.
Does anyone have any other perspectives on these characters?
@Juriel, thank you for pointing out the classical music. I enjoyed it but didn’t get the themes. I suppose some people might get it as others understood Alice through the Looking Glass references in The King Eternal Monarch.
@grace. Oh goodness, yes. The shower scene. I too howled with laughter as the original idyllic melody was transformed to suit the rhythm of of the water delivery. I wonder who thought of it; I never would have, but it’s good.
I like the point you make regarding Vincenzo being out of balance in Korea, because that’s exactly what has happened to him. In Italy he has been in a very powerful position (when his adoptive father was still alive), to the extent that he can express his poor opinion of his adoptive brother, Paulo. He’s clever enough to know what Paulo is likely to do, and is ready for the death-dealing night visitors. He’s also powerful enough to arrange for Paulo’s favourite car to be blown up by remote control from the first-class compartment of an aircraft already speeding towards Korea.
I’ve had one question in my mind since the beginning. Why did an Italian Mafia boss adopt an eight-year-old Korean boy in the first place and rear him to be a consigliere and possible contender for the top seat? It’s just not what a real Mafia family would do, with their belief in the sanctity of a “pure” bloodline. (But is there a history between Vincenzo’s father and Vincenzo’s mother?) And I can’t help agreeing with Paulo on one point. You just don’t destroy a whole vineyard, no matter how vengeful you might be feeling.
And thank you @Fern for pointing out the phrase shown in the opening titles. It’s pretty clear what it means. Also, you mention the head of Babel Pharma and his punishment in the ice hockey rink. His face seems to show that he accepts the extreme treatment as being what he deserves. Very odd. The figure of an ice-hockey player is shown in the opening titles, and like you, I’m curious to know what place it takes in the overall storyline. There should be more to come on this character.
I do agree with you about Choi Myung-Hee, who moves with too much alacrity from being an (rather questionable) public prosecutor to the Wusang Law Firm. She seems to want to deal with corruption, but she herself appears somewhat unbalanced, and I’m looking forward to seeing what comes out of this sub-plot.
Looking forward to the next episodes.
I thought this was a serious, broody and drama heavy mafia story. It did start that way with the burning vineyard scene but after Vincenzo is back in SKorea, things are flipped. I think I saw @GB mentioned being whiplashed! And that’s where I found the fun (dark comedy) in this fare! It’s like a tongue-in-cheek parody of sorts and I am curious to see how it goes.
@Grace and @Fern already mentioned how different Vincenzo’s situation is in Italy vs SK. From being top Mafia in Italy, he is now with the underdogs in SK and even going against the SK “mafia” of Babel and Wusang law firm! Hmm, maybe he can turn be one of the good guys and be a lawyer “representing people” and not representing money. He seems to respect lawyer (he also represents the lady prisoner who May turn out to be V’s mother) Hong Yu-Chan and they make a good team.
Hong Cha-Young – she has flipped from being a happy but unsophisticated child to a hard-as-nails competitive lawyer. She thinks her dad is a loser (he does not win cases) and doesn’t want to be like him. The father denouncing his daughter with a legal memo is so flippant and hilarious. FL acts OTT but she carries it with an attitude. I like her facial expressions, I can see how her brain is clicking with her facial expressions – like when she starts to get fascinated with Vincenzo and how deep inside, she cares about her dad. I hope she flips back to a lawyer who fights for justice.
Thanks @Juriel for the music insights. I like the way they use the music to further exaggerate some scenes like the shower one was so funny. And to hilight how quirky the tenants are!
The 15 tons of gold in the safe room under the building… the monk’s comment “he felt a strong presence of Buddha from beneath the temple” is literally true. It’s a golden Buddha!
I have the impression that the Italian mafia provides “consultancy” to others kingpins like the rich Chinese businessman. Maybe that’s the reason why there’s a SK link and why a Korean boy was adopted? I am not sure if the Italian Mafia arc will be injected again in the storyline or will just remain in the beginning of ep1.
Other flips: Babel Chairman Jang – perceived to be young and powerful but gets beaten by a hockey stick wielding person. This hockey guy is an important character since he is featured in the intro graphics. The prosecutor turned Wusang lead lawyer. She has some beef with the prosecution’s head honchos, not so sure of her piece in the overall puzzle.
So far, this show is a comic counterbalance to the serious RWTMR and detailed dissection of Sisyphus. Still a Vincenzo gelato to me so I’m having dessert!
@Janey, yes, you’re right. I did mention feeling whiplashed with the change of ‘genre’. If show now settles into being a dark comedy, or parody or satire, I guess it will be fine. It’s one of those shows with characters that are hard to get on board with our obvious antihero (and anti-heroine?) who are not likable by a long shot. However I expect that kdrama magic will somehow soften them in our eyes to make them more and more sympathetic, so that by the end of the series, we’ll be rooting for them. 😉
Yes, @GB, we may be rooting for them at the end, so they will need to go full Robin Hood by then. I’ve been thinking of future scenarios and have come up with some spoilers.
@Janey, yes, that golden statue of Buddha carefully placed on top of the ingots. What does the older monk know? At least V offered to pay for an electric heater rather than have them install a new hot water boiler.
I think we’ll see the mafia attempt revenge. Between his brother and the vineyard owner, V has serious enemies.
@ Juriel, I missed that V was 8 when adopted. That might explain why he is so fluent in Korean (I guess). It doesn’t make loads of sense for a mafioso to adopt someone so clearly not famiglia – there is already another son – so there must be some other reason. Also, V’s Korean is good enough to pour through legal documents in Korean, so either we have to suspend disbelief or think he is a language genius as well as quick thinking tactician. (Where’s my measuring tape? – ha!)
Another fun flip: the social media used by V to start the buzz on the Sicilian street party was “Outstagram”, opposite of “Instagram”. LOL! Which was successful but it reached global spread too, so he kinda “outed” his location to his enemies in Italy. Not sure if that was a smart move. So I agree @Fern, the Italian mafia will come for him.
@Janey, yes, that was funny. I didn’t know if Outstagram was a real thing or not. His little face spreading not only all over Seoul but the whole world. 😄 I have to think that he planned it that way. Either the bad mafiosi will join forces or will end up pitted against each other somehow.
@Janey, the Outstagram was so strategic! He did warn Pablo not to come find him else the car will explode with Pablo inside. Though it is the other family he might need to be afraid of. I hope that with him being so smart, he would have an exit strategy wrt avoiding his Italian enemies.
@Fern, I also question his amazing ability to speak and read legal terms in Korean. If i grew up in a foreign country, I would lose my mother tongue if there isn’t anyone to speak it to me. Sadly that was what happened to my neighbour, they barely spoke english but assimilated so well that within a year, they were not speaking their mother tongue much to their parents. Maybe V was continued to learn Korean so he can have a larger influence for his mafia family?
Some references picked up
– The mask chair that Vincenzo was sitting in the dance studio was in Dreamcatcher’s Odd Eye mtv
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QD0FeZyDtQ
– The ending scene in Episode 2 was like The Great Gatsby scene
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN183rJltNM&t=59s (see 0.44s)
Contrast
– I was really attracted to his luxurious hotel bedsheets…they were white. When he came to Korea, he lived in residential building and the sheets were dark coloured. It is just colour but it just emphasizes the difference between his life in Italy and Korea.
This contrast is important because Vincenzo changes. While he upheld his principles of not harming women and children.
He said to lawyer dad Yuchan “For the past two days, I experienced first hand how the weak suffered. I couldn’t do anything. So I became even more furious.”
Yuchan replies, “Those who are truly weak endure the feeling of helplessness and rage until the day they die.”
I don’t think Vincenzo will do that…he will fight to the end…and I wonder if Yuchan will be his last straw.
Yuchan says of the name of his firm, “I become their last straw, a jipuragi. When they don’t have anyone to lean on, they can still grab onto me. I am their last straw.”
Btw, there is a dream where he had or a recall of the people he killed in Italy and he wakes up in a daze. In the same scene, there is also the second flipped vertical frame (the first was the scene in Italy as he was walking out of a building). Not sure what to make of it though it will get revealed soon I’m sure. Also why the vertical frame?? It’s the first time I have seen it used in shows.
Half way through episode 1 – it is interesting. I will probably watch it till the end 🙂
jo3edc
@Josephine Tedesco, I was a bit amused by the translations from Italian in the 1st episode. I only know a bit of Italian but I think that some of the words from Emilio at Grecco vineyards were more derogatory or crude than the translation said. Likewise some of Vincenzo’s rants.
I hope that your enjoyment continues.
Hello🤗
HDL was my last visit here bec i started to watch Cdrama by following 2 great actor n singer. Anyway i hope I’m still welcome here😊 it entice me when i saw Vincenzo thread here. It may inappropriate to say but I’m not a loyal fan of SJK but it always attracts me whenever i saw his aloofness n lazy facial expressions on screen n that started back in Innocent Man.
Regarding his ability to speaks and read legal terms in Korean. Well IMO a Mafia lawyer must have studied multi languages as his work is to deal with multi personelle since Mafia’s organizations are all over the world.
Same thought with_there must be a connection with the man who adopted V with his mom in the past. Like what she said i’ve done wrong “many things” in the past which means not only by abandoning her son..
On the prison scene..i smiled when she said they may thought I’m your secret wife which made me think she may be a mistress or his son was an unwanted child. Y on d other hand jokingly said…you may be a good mother to her! Who would know that they would become family lol
Lots of scenes i enjoyed watching.
*The bath scene was rare n unique 😂
*the agent that eyeing V
*lord at least u wash ur hair first..no wonder he finally decided to disown u lol
*Y enjoyed watching V using fist
*the con chef! Looking forward how he will improve!
Q_ a tape measure can use to hang a male one? I let it slip bec of the pinky scene which is V purposely push his thump to the man’s thump. He is calmly smart..can’t wait for the next eps.
See u next week every1.
Hi @SeanZhan! You’re always welcome to BoD. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on V! I’m not a big fan of SJK also but I’ve seen mischief in his eyes from previous kdramas so I think he suits this role. I also have an inkling that his mom may lead to connections in his past. He had definitely kept tabs on her and was there 5 years ago for her trial while doing “business consultancy” on that safe. That tape measure can’t be used again, it’s been stretched!
@M, thanks for the tip that Tiger Park was the limo driver! I had to rewatch to notice.
@jo3edc – enjoy! Let us know what you think.
@Grace – In ep1 I also paused on that flipped vertical frame. I thought it was to show the beautiful structure of building, I noticed the X on the floor as he walked. I have to check ep2 for that dream scene you mentioned, I didn’t notice the camera work there. Did you also notice how different the architecture (at least on what was shown, the buildings were mostly uniform and organized urban planning) is in Italy when his plane was departing from Rome and then landing to Seoul? Another contrast there.
Hello @SeanZhan. I was wondering if V will teach that chef how to properly cook Italian dishes — or maybe the chef will go back to Korean food if he is better at cooking that.
I pitied V for never getting fed in Korea. He went from probably having a skilled cook in his beautiful home in Rome or dining out – to living in that unattractive apartment in Seoul and being primed to eat Italian food only to find that the chef not only lied, but couldn’t cook Italian food. His tteokbokki at the cafe was spilt; Cha Young took his soup away before he was finished. If I had jet lag, a hang-over and hunger pangs, I probably would have wept. 😭🤣
I hope someone can offer a theory about what was going on in the 2nd episode, about 21 minutes in, when V comes into Yu Chan’s office and asks for a favour – to see the Babel documents. He offers to be an ally. Yu Chan looks at him very closely for a few seconds and then his face changes. He looks at him again and then moves away as though overcome by some feeling.
I wondered if he was reminded of someone else or some other situation? Maybe I’m overthinking, too. 🧐🤨🤯
Does anyone else find it interesting that the Pharmaceutical company is named Babel? The only other Babel I know of is from the Hebrew Old Testament and refers to a towering structure doomed by the hubris of its builder/designers who understand each other at first. Later (with God’s interference) they can’t communicate so the structure can’t be completed and the people scatter.
Hello to @Fern. I also wondered about this scene, and how Yu-Chan calmly hands over the Babel papers to Vincenzo, especially since Nam Joo-Sung, his assistant has been putting the case to rest in document boxes only moments before. I think you definitely have a point regarding the close look. Perhaps Yu-Chan suddenly realises that Oh Gyeong-Ja, in prison, could in fact be Vincenzo’s mother. Another interesting part of this scene is how Yu-Chan seems to wash his hands of any responsibility for the documents, apparently going to sleep during Vincenzo’s scrutiny of the papers and allowing him access to others when Vincenzo asks for them. Perhaps he’s admitting Vincenzo’s right to know. I like the fact that when Vincenzo leaves and Joo-Sung offers him all the case papers to take with him, Vincenzo simply shows him the abstract he has made, which can be held in one hand, thus demonstrating his competence as a lawyer.
And I think you’re absolutely right regarding the Babel name. My own connection with this story is from my childhood Sunday school experience, when I learned that Nimrod was “a mighty hunter before the Lord”, challenged God and built the Tower of Babel, for
which he and his people received God’s punishment. The word “Babel” apparently simply means “confusion” in Hebrew. But like you, I have the feeling that a power theme may be developed around Babel E&C in “Vincenzo”.
Yes, one comes to feel for Vincenzo. He hasn’t managed a decent meal since he arrived in South Korea.
Thanks🤗
The flashback V siting on the court room thought its just a mind setting. So possibly he come n go in SK?
D’con chef will eventually improve by receiving disgrace from V.
D main female lead i don’t know her tho😅 but her acting is on point. Entertaining. Loved how she walk through without knowing its the wrong way🤣🤣which represents she will get back on track maybe after few weeks.
For Fern’s concern_i think YC acknowledge V potential to deal Babel bec a while ago tho he seemed distant from V but his expression from V’s stunt he seem amused. And for that he’s giving him chance to prove his ability..u see he even loved/got entertained his stunt vineyard fertilizer buy one get two 🤣
20 episodes..wondering how much twist they could offer. Surely i want more backstory of V..
20 episodes?!! Oh I did not know that. Seems too much. For sure the mafiosi will come looking for him for payback.
Yes that’s for sure. All tenants on that building would be the hostage or its just my mind is too advance 😅
Spoiler!!
I have just read from soompi that jjw will join forces to V n our female lawyer to take down villains who cannot be punished by the court of law..
Ahh can’t wait the romance will form. Its been a while since sjk’s last kiss on screen. Lol he’s one of the best kisser actor in SK!
Yes, @Janey, 20 episodes seems like more than needed, but we’ll see. About the mafiosi coming in, the FL was instructing V about all of the corruption at all levels in Korea. She was making it seem like Italy is still in the sandbox in comparison. There is the Chinese element, too. I wouldn’t be surprised if an organised crime from China gets involved as well as the Luchino and the remainder of the Cassano family. There is our ‘Babel’ perhaps?
@SeanZhan, I shall have to look up that Soompi article. Thank you.
@Fern,
The italian was crude, but then I think the Mafia guys are stereotypical
(I suppose … there used to be an old joke: Have you seen the Godfather or just the movie?)
I don’t know if I made the comment, but I thought the tower of Babel was a story to explain how the many different languages came into the world? So maybe the Babel corporation will have something to do with that (too early to tell how the Italian connection will play out.
@jo3edc, I think the mafia guys are stereotypical, but I couldn’t say how typical or frequent the swearing is in Italy. My Italian has declined to a rudimental level, sadly.
Yes, I agree that the story about Babel was about the origin of languages, but was the punishment of hubris and competing with God which led to the formation of the languages. The end result was chaotic inefficiency. I would never name a company Babel.
Apologies for not giving you credit for thoughts on Babel. I looked for your earlier comment above but couldn’t find one. Do you post under more than one name? Or maybe it was on another thread…
I am intrigued by this show so far, but not sure if I will ultimately like it to the end. I agree that the opening scene was well done and impactful (felt cinematic in a Western way, which seemed intentional), though I got a bit distracted by SJK’s very, very slow Italian in that scene. Thanks @Juriel for your analysis of the music. I recognized much of it but could not place it or recognize its specific relevance.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but I wish Kdramas would just get rid of the shower scenes. This one did have some humor in it, but I always feel uncomfortable watching them as they are always there just to show the actor’s bodies and feel exploitive. It is like scenes in western shows where the woman is in lingerie (or on HBO, often topless) but the men in the same scene are fully or mostly clothed.
After that opening scene the tonal shifts were a bit jarring, but I am approaching this as a comedy (probably a dark comedy.) With that approach, so far so good.
I also speculate that the hockey player is the real person in charge of Babel and the young chairman is his (or her) pawn.
It may early to ask but do u sense of sad or tragic ending?
@Wreckgirl, I know what you mean about shower scenes. If there isn’t one, there’s probably a swimming scene and yes, it’s a double standard. It’s okay if it is really part of the story, but mostly they seem like tropes.
In the hockey scene, the hockey player doesn’t say anything. The chairman does all of the confessing of his errors. To me, that is even stranger. It seemed at first that the CEO was inviting the punishment, but by the end, the look on his face was that he was enduring it and trying not to show how much it must hurt. My impression was that it was not the first time. I would have expected the hockey player to do the accusing if he were in charge. Could it be that the hockey player is directed by someone else to do the punishment? And why hockey? That’s rather novel for me.
@Fern, it seems to me shower scenes might be passe as in the last few days I’ve seen MLs in dramas emoting in a bubble bath which just doesn’t have the same feeling as the shower scenes we’re used to. Regarding the hockey scene, I think the hockey player is the CEO’s father and the real chairman. I do have a question for everone though, when Vincenzo set the fire and calmly walked out why didn’t one of those heavily armed men shoot him???
“it seems to me shower scenes might be passe as in the last few days I’ve seen MLs in dramas emoting in a bubble bath which just doesn’t have the same feeling as the shower scenes we’re used to.”
@NoelaFarley Preach it sister. Only sensitive new age guys (SNAGs) do their thinking in bubble baths. You can’t possibly take them seriously. Real men take showers. Nothing like a man in a proper shower scene to lend credibility to his thinking prowess. 😂
Nuela_when he ignite the lighter he already exited on d gate and thrown it behind, from there the flames came as tsunami so naturally they could have been caught of guard since the boss’s vineyard were about to wipe out.That was epic scene.
This boss is bound to aim V’s head for sure. Counting V’s enemy..there are three.
@nrllee, you made me laugh over my breakfast. 😂
@Noela Farley, I wondered the same thing about V’s escape from the vineyard. I had thought that he was still within the gates and I was just going to go along with ‘willing suspension of disbelief.’ @SeanZhan, yes, it was epic. Only 3 enemies?
Spoiler alert:
I count Emilio, with the Lucano family backing him up,
His brother
Babel
The agent from the organised crime bureau
The allegedly dead Chinese man or his triad
–I wouldn’t be surprised to find that the gold is missing once V manages to get the vault open.
Thanks @SeanZhan I thought he was still inside the gate just below the stairs which is why I was thinking they were pretty lousy mafia. I’m with you @Fern, I think he is building a nice coterie of enemies, maybe he has to get rid of one each episode to last for 16.
@Noela Farley, I think that if he is strategic, he will pit them against each other. But, yes, one per episode is more likely.
The name Farley triggers good memories of a family at my primary school.
@Fern, yes to the usual unfinished meals he’s had in Korea. I thought the only complete meal he probably had was with YC. Or maybe it was mostly rice wine and side dishes.
I thought he came to SK 5 years ago to deal with the secret stash of gold, when they bought the building to hide it. Unfortunately this time when he came back, it is at a time when the building was going to be bought. So he now need to deal with not just the tenants but Babel.
Some background, I’m quoting from purekpop.com so we know what the screenwriter is heading towards,
‘ “Vincenzo” shows the ironic righteousness of a villain. This is what sets Vincenzo apart. For what reasons and in what context a brutal mafia lawyer turns to justice will be an interesting point. ‘
‘The key points for ‘Vincenzo’ are the trial of a villain named Vincenzo who is exterminating the real villains and the exciting pleasure you get from watching that trial. The various comedic elements that adorn the brutal plot like toppings are also important points.’
Just for the fun of it, I came across this reaction video to SJK speaking Italian. He did an ok to great job!!
@Growing Beautifully, that was so funny. Well done to SJK for doing so well.
@Fern, I don’t know Italian to save my life, but I found his slow Italian so cute somehow.
ヽ(*´□｀*)ッ
Yes, I agree. I think he was trying to articulate and to portray slow and deliberate speech. The breathiness may be a nod to actors playing mafia members like Marlon Brando?
Thank you for the Youtube link @Growing Beautifully. It does appear that SJK has got his Italian lines pretty right, so congratulations both to him and his Italian coach. I thought his delivery was was fine, but it was nice to have confirmation.
I don’t quite know what to say. This series is becoming increasingly rich and fascinating, and we’re only up to the end of Episode 4! What next? There’s so much that I’d like to share, but I’ll restrict my comments to just four points.
1. Choi Myung-hee is a really nasty piece of work, and I’m glad that the CEO of the Wusang law firm seems possibly to be beginning to doubt her methods and motives. She is very twisted – like her dancing. But a truly dark villain adds to the power of the storyline
2. I’m very sad to lose Hong Yu-Chan, but the series is a dark comedy, and the death of one of the most sympathetic characters is perhaps only to be accepted, if not expected. What a whopping bit of cinematography, when the truck comes crashing through the window! Director Kim Hee-Won really has a remarkable imagination.
3. Another person who is distinguished by the a truly appealing imagination is the screenwriter Park Jae-Bum, and if his style seems somewhat familiar, I know why. I discovered only today that he wrote “Good Manager” and “The Fiery Priest”, both of which are on my repeat list.
4. One of the complete delights, emerging from my curiosity about the music used in the series, is my discovery of Sunghoon Choi, the highly gifted and very versatile Korean countertenor, who sings the aria “Ombra mai Fu” from Handel’s opera “Serse” (“Xerxes”) at the moment of Hong Yu-Chan’s death. Best known, perhaps, as Handel’s “Largo”, the aria seems to be sad. However, it’s anything but, and opens what we would call now a romantic comedy, where everyone’s wanting everyone else’s wife. The aria would have first been performed by a castrato singer, but then the countertenor appeared…
I’m so agog for episodes 5 and 6.
@Juriel, so am I!! I will collect my thoughts and come back soon with more thoughts.
Lots of people are complaining about the comedic part of it but it is black comedy and I really loved it, especially the shocked bartender in ep3. Did anyone notice that?
Ep 3 and 4 thoughts:
Lots of quotable quotes in these episodes and also spoilers…
1. Han YuChan knows that V is the son of his client. She said “I stopped caring about getting justice a long time ago. Don’t complicate things.” It’s ironic though that both mother and son share the same belief as V tried to dissuade YuChan to stop his fight with Babel since he will not win and he should cut his losses. But as a lawyer representing people, he is not deterred.“Smart people may rule the world but reckless and stubborn people like me protect this world.”
2. Unna scaccia l’atro – these are the Italian words in the intro graphics. “It takes a devil to drive out another devil”, “Only monsters can beat monsters.” YuChan admits he cannot be a monster but can V be one? V does not respond in ep3 but with YuChan’s death in ep4, his resolve is firmed to fight for his cause. There was an excellent shot of V lying on the hospital bed with a vertical split screen of YuChan dead on the morgue. That broke my heart.
3. “All criticisms children give their parents will come back as regrets”. V said this to ChaYoung after a father-daughter argument where she accused her father of abandoning her mom, of being too focused in helping others. The mom’s death brought a wedge to their relationship and most likely what drove her to Wusang. This was a foreshadowing of YuChan’s death, but I did not expect it to happen like that – I screamed so loud and disturbed the whole household. We don’t know the full story here but I have a hunch that it may be related to Babel and meds (if the mom was sick) and may be the driving force why YuChan was determined to bring down Babel. CY and V join forces!!! Visual cue – there are now 2 pigeons in V’s window as he worry about CY.
4. Mafia style intimidation begins! And it has brought out the hockey guy in the intro who is the real head of Babel – it’s Taekyeon’s JoonWoo! Makes sense that hockey guy is young and has western influence. JW is then spying Wusang as an intern but has a soft spot for CY. Ms. Choi was astute to pick up that Chairman Jang is just a figure-head. That was a good reversal when a similar truck almost crashed the laundromat where Ms Choi dances since she was the one who ordered the elimination of YuChan using the same means. “Burn all the drugs”, YuChan said and V, CY and his clients staged a glorious fire and explosion at Babel’s factory with Puccini’s “Nessun Dorma” playing climactically in the background.
Ep 3 and 4 episodes are not as comedic as the first 2 but I continue to be fascinated with the story-telling of this kdrama and how it deals with the heavy topics of drugs, cartel, corruption, justice.
PS. V most likely has a stash of lighters! He threw another one away to start the fire just like in the vineyard. He said playing with it helps him think. Hmmm, there’s a back story for the lighter for sure.
Gosh just started ep 3 and I’m having a good lol
Love has no reason? Its my first time seeing this sentence🤣😅 V prefer love has no reason so could i be “Relax”!!😅
I’m loving Vincenzo even if it’s over 1 hour every episode! LOL!
Awesome comments @Janey. 🙂 I like the nickname, V. Those Italian background music are good. 🙂
I was sad to see Lawyer Yu Chan die but V respected him as a mentor and as a lawyer for those who needs their last straw of hope. It was nice to see that those people whom he helped, helped too with the destruction of the warehouse. That was nice.
I liked that Cha-young told V that they can get their revenge without killing another person. Thank God for Joo-sung’s talent. hehehe
I was so wrong with Ms Choi. I thought she wasn’t evil but nope.
I wonder what’s the relation between Chairman Jang and JW if any at all?
@Agdr03 – yes, I liked that they drew the line on no more killings even if it’s not directly from their hands. Good job CY!!! Coz V can kill and has killed before.
Personally, I do not believe that you have to become a monster to fight a monster. Call me naive but I believe that good will always triumph over evil. In this case, they are now more devious than devil. Joo Sung’s talent is also a fun and creative spin to their deviousness. I am curious to see how far they will push the envelope on this.
Chairman Jung and JW can be brothers, they have the same last name. Maybe one is illegitimate? JW was given the visual cue of the devil with the red eyes and dark look in the end of ep4. And he beats the other guy with a hockey stick and puck!
Oh they might be brothers, that makes sense. That beating by Chairman Jung was awful though. 😬 But yes, JW is definitely the evil evil one.
Let’s see how he interacts with CY after the warehouse fire.
I want to see V falling in love with CY. 😁 She is very smart in that her hunches of him are correct. 😊
With YC gone, I’ll assume that he’ll have time for his mother now.
Ep 3&4 are well paced.
Lots of secrets to be reveal.
Who would think that the intern clumsy assistant became the boss!? The dancing queen is unexpectedly heartless!
Ahh Vincenzo setting fire is indeed his expertise. I wonder how many lighter he have when he leave it every mission?
JW on d other hand seems the right hand or son of the big boss… Since he grew in US,perhaps he’s one of high profile or representative of Mafia in US_just like V himself?
But one thing got me thinking. When JW offered her immediate boss to join the planning firm to be establish in Korea as he had mentioned “his group” from US…🤔
Also, why did CY take her mask off before the trucks even left. Stupida!
Brilliant that those who were helped by Yu Chan lit the fire.
@Fern – I agree on CY removing her mask 😷. Rookie mistake! But she should know better with all the CCTV around and her being a lawyer. Also it took them too long to leave. I know that’s for dramatic effect but I was like hurry up, c’mon!!! Pronto!
@Fern, CY couldn’t breathe through the mask! stupida indeed! 😂
I’m about to drop this show after watching 3 episodes but glad i gave episode 4 a chance because omg it’s a life changing episode. Been a fan of sjk after Arthdal Chronicles and he never disappoint me in every characters he portray.
@Janey, Any idea what they could have done to the guy he strangled in the toilet? I noticed that V didn’t reply her on whether he will kill or not. Besides the one in the toilet, the rest were spared.
Some notes
1. I figure the idea of threat is quite prevalent here. List of threats:
– threatened the Chairman with the bloody pillow full of syringe
– threatened Lawyer Choi with the truck of doom
– the 2 detectives(?) with death
– the driver of the truck that killed Daddy Hong
– The head of Babel investments or something with his affair and the real estate agents that he secretly took bribes from.
Lots of threatening here!! Now this also means that keeping a clean record matters, because when JoonWoo dug up info on V, there was no past criminal records on V. So…in terms of integrity and actions he does not quite do anything that gets his name dirty.
2. The song V sang at the end while watching the factory explode in flames.
Tramontate, stelle! (Set, stars)
All/alba vinvero! (At dawn, I’ll win)
Vincero, Vincero! (I will win, I will win)
We know he will win in the end, his name says it all but…at dawn. Which also means the battle is in the night, a time of hiding, mystery…I’m not sure what else but we will get it as the story progresses.
3. The hidden identities
Who is Lawyer Choi’s Crystal ball?
JoonWoo = CEO of Babel. I knew he was going to be a villian because it was announced last year during the casting but his detail intentions of being in Wusang as a spy is still unclear for me. It is clear that he likes ChaYoung
4. Good and evil
Here we are fighting evil for evil, eye for an eye. I am still digesting how this will take a turn. Babel is not a battle V wants to fight, not his business. He just wants his gold. Lawyers are supposed to know what is right and wrong, based on the law. This also means they know how to get around it and skirt the law without getting caught. Is this how V gets away with a clean record? How is he going to get away without being caught after burning down the factory?
Nonetheless I’m excited for this weekend! The storyline is getting more interesting.
@Sean Zhan, my reply to you got lost!
It’s an interesting idea that JW’s friend from Boston who planned to open a law firm in Seoul might be part of US organised crime. It sounds like he could be planning to align himself with that firm in the future and would want Cha Young to come with him.
Cha Young consistently patronises JW and doesn’t take him seriously. This is worrisome because it seems like she doesn’t respect him. The only consistent thing that she said was that she was on the side of her client and loyal to her employer. Knowing his identity now, that was probably reassuring to him. But she very clearly exposed her face after the fire while the rest kept their masks on. Hmmm.
You may know the saying, “Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.” The same could apply to JW: how will he react when he sees her face on the cctv footage?
@Grace Tan, I thought that the man strangled in the toilet passed out but wasn’t killed. Wasn’t he one of the two who were photographed as ‘dead’ for lawyer Choi? I shall have to rewatch.
Yes, I noticed that V didn’t outwardly agree to the no killing rule presented by Cha Young. I also noticed that the truck driver had some record of being a pedophile. Since we know that Vincenzo doesn’t tolerate violence against women and children, I think it was put in to make his death more palatable.
I thought it was funny how Vincenzo kept wriggling out of having to touch or carry the unconscious men. Like he didn’t want to get his hands dirty literally or metaphorically.
Hi Fern. How will they react if they both find the truth…well at least JW knew that CY collaborating with V. Do u think JW growing fond with CY? He joked towards her but it seems has its deepest meaning. Jw may have all info about his enemy so its possible that he got info about V’s background..
Hi Juliel. I came to watch V bec of SJK without knowing that same writer of good manager n The Fiery Priest! Wow. I’m a number one fan of Fr KimHaeil in the TFP. If u r looking a good series that makes u laugh each ep then this one is a must! No wonder CY’s character seems familiar and even those tenants🤣🤣
I expect more revelations that d writer would bring. More hilarious for sure!
I looks like it’s an eye for an eye in each episode! I’m shallow and I am quite enjoying the over the top fashion show and grand entrance. Quite impressed with the tactics Team V is doing against Wusang. It is quite creative and hilarious. The hornet!
Btw, Wusang is in Chinese words 友像 in the boss’s office. They don’t translate the Korean meaning of the word but from the Chinese translation it means “like a friend”. Not a friend, but a better phrase would be “as if a friend”.
Honestly I am not sure how this will play out with each team throwing one fire ball after another. Where is this story going to go?
Same here @Grace!!! Vincenzo continues to be funny and irreverent. It’s my shallow and happy weekend pill. The hornets 🐝 in the courtroom was hilarious, the OTT antics matched by “The Flight of the Bumblebee” in the background is the cherry on top of this Vincenzo gelato.
I will post more my thoughts on ep5&6 later. Work is getting in the way.
Hello, @Grace Tan. The aria “Nessun Dorma” from the opera “Turandot” by Puccini always irritates me. Admittedly, it’s a wonderful showpiece for a tenor, with that penultimate high note, but it’s sung by a man who knows the woman whom he desires (the princess Turandot) will be his, when morning comes, despite the fact that she definitely doesn’t want him. So to me, it’s a sort of gloating song. I think, in this version, we could be hearing the Korean tenor Yonghoon Lee.
Now I understand the look of fear on Chairman Jang’s face when he is getting beaten up on the ice rink earlier in the series. He knows his brother is mad, but he has to go along with his sibling’s actions to prevent worse things happening.
@Juriel, you got me curious with the song and Yonghoon Lee who sang it. His voice made my hair stand, there is a warmth and depth in his voice that isn’t as sharp as Puccini.
I found the song so suited for that scene. Really quite smart. Interestingly it was when Vincenzo said the words of this song while he watches the factory burst in flames, we viewers realize what his name really meant, victory. (Hmm..reminds me of his recent show Space Sweepers where their space ship is named Victory. What a coincidence!)
I didn’t realise that about the name Vincenzo. My only knowledge about the name is St Vincent being the patron saint of wine growers in Burgundy, France. His image is popular there and the name is common in wine-growing families. There is a big festival each year in January.
I don’t know if he’s the patron saint of wine in other places/countries as well. If he’s the patron saint of vintners in Italy as well, that would be ironic after that blaze.
I have to watch ep 6.
I have a few questions about ep. 6. Who could Joo-sung’s blind date be?
I hope it’s not Myung-hee digging for an inside scoop.
Who is Gilbert the homeless man with information? A post on another site suggested that he wrote the word Babel before entering. Whose side is he on and does he know something interesting about Babel or perhaps the gold?
I liked how the senior monk seems to have more connections than would seem likely; he must know enough about the local Christian church to understand that they would be grateful for a used cross. Like a Passion re-enactment, he dragged the cross through the street and asked for help when it became too heavy – Vincenzo playing the part of Simon of Cyrene (a foreigner) bemusedly helping him out. The monk’s advice to fight feelings of anger seems out of line with Buddhism, but I am ignorant of all but the basics for this religion, so I could be completely wrong. Perhaps someone who knows more about this could help me understand. Maybe there is different advice for different types of anger.
@Fern, I’m curious as well as to who is Mr Name’s blind date. I doubt it’s Myung-hee because he knows she’s the enemy. Maybe it’s Myung-hee’s minion. Hopefully not as I like Mr Nam. 😁
Gilbert, yes, who is he? They just cut his scene after he entered the restaurant. But it’s right after all tenants agreed to what V proposed. Interesting indeed.
I thought it was so cool when they drove to the courthouse in that sports car. That’s style! 😂
The scene was funny when he told CY about the gold bars. 😂
I felt that when V carried the cross, he was still heavily burdened by his Mother’s abandonment and that he felt guilty too in telling her that that will be his last visit. I agree, his Mom knows that she’s her son. I can’t comment about the advice of the monk as I’m not familiar with Buddhism.
Hi, @agdr03! Yes the scenes from the prison visit and the aftermath were interesting to me. He lit a cigarette, but didn’t smoke it. The camera kept going to the ash which was getting longer and longer. It made me think of the scenes where he was scolding the boys for smoking and threatened to tell the cafe owner mother. I think there was a recent reason for V quitting his smoking – perhaps in Italy – did one of his adoptive parents die from smoking?
The show keeps giving us scenes from the bible; the painting covering the wall safe showed Christ being kissed by Judas. A strange image to have in an attorney’s office, right? And now the cross, with the idea of a burden of guilt that you mentioned.
With Gilbert, it was interesting to see how the tenants reacted to him. The chef didn’t want him there, but others welcomed him in. Afterwards, there was that odd shot of the tenants lined up on the bridge/walkway staring at the building.
I’m enjoying this almost as much as Zombie Detective. I also liked the finger flick scene. One of those moments.
Knowing the writer romance isn’t his genre but alliance…but hoping V is special.
His last project before V was the fiery priest which gained many awards.
@SeanZhan, I haven’t seen the Fiery Priest, but I shall have to look at it. I have read so many good things about it.
Yes, I don’t know if V will become a romance or leave us with a friendship with potential, like the Zombie Detective. I think it will depend on whether V decides he could live in Korea or not. I don’t see him dragging CY back into his world – she might become a target for his enemies back in Europe. He said he would return to Malta rather than Italy, but that’s only a short flight to Sicily. (Having been there, I can’t picture him in Malta long-term.)
Thoughts on ep 5 & 6:
My theory on the homeless man – in ep2, 12:00 “eliminate” all the people involved in the construction of the safe. There was a guy in the mask who hushed. Is he that man? Did he tell them about the gold under the building? The gang was looking at the building in a peculiar manner and was noticeably absent in the 2nd hearing.
@Fern and @Agdr03 – I also noticed the bible scenes as visual cues. The painting of Judas showed how the lawyer is a traitor to his clients. V helping to carry the cross showed his willingness to carry the burden of the fight with Babel and hopefully to also come to terms with his feelings for his mom. She does not have much time.
The puppet strings are out! JW revealed the true king and real owner of Babel to Wusang through that tacky powerpoint presentation and dance sequence. LOL! My hunch that they are brothers and that the other is illegitimate turned to be correct. Isn’t this like a chaebol trope? V knows the chairman is not the real head. It’s interesting that V and JW’s methods to probe people are similar. This gym scene was back to back with JW’s conversation with CY when he surmised that CY started the fire at Babel’s factory. I hope V finds out about JW soon. CY will not be able to guess this because she has pigeon-holed JW already, even his romantic undertones are ignored.
The courtroom juxtaposed with casino scenario and how mafia tactics can be applied was a hoot! The courtroom drama from the entrance of the car, the protest action, to the leaky room, to the hornets were perfectly scripted. I like V and CY’s thought process and contingency planning. I hope they have a good plan for the second hearing since Ms Choi aka “Zumba snake” is now openly fighting dirty.
V revealed the truth about the gold to CY, which means there is trust between them now…. But she did not believe him! Hahaha! Our OTP is moving along with fluttering moments like the finger flick scene. Sweet!
Hi All.. i’ve turned out to enjoy vincenzo much.. it is funny. And i cried at episode 3! I always like the movies/series where everyone team up together to fight for something. And in vincenzo i see it a lot. Yes, people hold power.
As for @Grace’s question: where is the story going to go.. i think it is a “bad guy gone good” story. We learn that CY father was the most righteous person.. while V and CY not really.. and the quote of: Only the Devil could defeat the Devil. I think it will tell us that to fight The Evil, we must think and do like the Evil too. So the purpose of V and CY is to win. The victory against the evil corporation.
It is fun to watch because I see many irony that actually happens in actual life. Just how far an evil corporation would go for the money, and how the system already bought by them. It is like a wishful thinking of the writer that maybe “so sick” of them all, and create a fiction to win this fight in its own way.
About Gilbert: i hope he is not one of the workers that Chinese richman hire to build the building. If he told the tenants that there are gold that buried under, will they still support V? Haha
About the date of Mr Nam: hahaha lets pray that it is not the minions of Myunghee..
My question is: how cruel Taecyon will be in this series.. Is it his first series that he became the bad guy?
Checking to see if my comment is going through. I posted a long one and I did not see it. I was using my phone so I may have flubbed something.
Oh, it came through! Thanks @PM3!
@Fern, yes the references to Buddhism and Christianity / Roman catholicism. Do you know in Episode 5 when they were confronting Stinking So at his office, there was a statue or a picture on the wall of the building behind, of Mother Mary praying.
@agdr03, I was worried about who Mr.Nam was meeting too, hopefully it would be someone useful and all the suspense was to make us suspect that bad things will happen them…like the bugged plant.
@grace, just tell me when you need me to open a new thread for Vincenzo. If there are many comments, then it’s tedious scrolling down.
🙂
Hi admin @ parkmule3🤗
A new thread please 😊
Looking forward your analysis about V…but it seems you’re not into it. Still thanks for this thread.
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@pm3 thank you for opening a new thread! will be great for the coming weekend and likely the next 6-8 episodes?
@Fern,would glad to know ur thoughts after watching TFP. Same 20 eps! FYI there r 3 characters that has have cameos on V.
As V helping carrying the Cross may apply later. Tho he seemed hesitant at first but he had no choice but to embraced that cross which is according to Monk they would grateful (Church)for giving it to them… How cruel our young villain could be? I’m curious too.
Bydwy,anyone here watched previous drama of SJK;the innocent man/nice guy? It’s too heavy that i can’t move on from replaying tho i have been watched multiple times already! Any recommendation as heavy as it this. Wanna binges while waiting V every weekends. Thank u.
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