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76 Comments On “Sisyphus: Eps 3 & 4 Open Thread”
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The thread is now open for spoilers, theories, and discussions.
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Let’s enjoy the show.
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Hi @pkml3. Thanks… but I believe you mean Episode 3 and 4 Open Thread. We’ve only had 2 episodes so far.
I got confused too as I’m trying to watch 4 different shows, and I can’t remember which episode I’m on. 😉
😂 Thank you. What will I do without you, agdr03, nrllee, miracle23, fern, Grace, Cleopatra, and the other ladies here?
I want some of SeoHae’s powers. 😂
The actor playing TaeSul isn’t bad looking. I know he’s supposed to play some sort of rakish, swagging playboy. But I don’t think he pulled it off. 🙂 To me, he looks harmless, boyish.
Heh @pkml3, I just watched Episode 3 without subs. He was telling some jokes at the conference and had the audience in the palm of his hand. It was less a conference than a show and tell of what his Quantum and Time machine could do (basically it moved a sugar cube through the air).
As drama would have it, there were so many minutes in which Tae Sul could have been shot, but it only happened when Seo Hae (late as usual) barged into the auditorium. She really needs to manipulate time to be some minutes earlier than the killers!
We see that those who arrive through time travel take a pretty great risk. The trip can kill them. They also actually look more like dead people. I wonder if they made too many trips or whether they are dying from radiation. Loss of hair is one symptom of radiation sickness.
Interesting that suitcase’s interior has been changed. If that’s Tae San’s suitcase, TSul has been busy.
And we get to see that Tae San is indeed around but keeping himself hidden from his brother. I agree and I did say earlier, that he’s the one who warned TSul not to look for him.
Not a bad episode, with some great stunts in the escape scenes and with PSH showing off her warrior moves and managing the zip line. I was amused that Tae Sul was the one screaming in fear. He was so calm under pressure in the plane, but probably suddenly sliding down the outside of a building and zip lining are not his thing.
Now to wait for Hello Me! which also aired today!
BTW are you going to open threads for Hello Me as well or shall we just use 1 thread?
Okay you guys got me with this. Still keeping silent for now but I see you. Another excellent analysis already packmule, as always you blow my mind with how you see these shows, how you explain about them too. Thank you for always doing so.
The bodyguard is not dead!
@GB Seohae looked really bada$$ in Sun’s leather jacket, but then she pulled out her flower gun haha. The chase scene was intense but comic with Taesul’s screaming (don’t know if that was intended or not but it was amusing).
That guy who tried to shoot Taesul had a human body but the face definitely did not look human. Reminded me of Voldemort from Harry Potter. Either too many time travel trips messed him up or he’s an alien, or maybe a mutated human from the future…
An interesting question from the Control Bureau chief – how did the shooter miss from such a close distance?
Episode 3
The episode went by too fast!
I was captivated from the very first scenes which are excellent.
Appearances of deformed beings in the building.
Visibly, the download goes badly because they are in an unstable organic state.
Or they appear halfway in solid obstacles, such as cables.
All in all, the episode gives more answers than questions.
Fighting scene: always good, the fight in the upper hall uses a few cuts, otherwise it’s Gunfu!
Stunt scenes: that’s too much. I don’t believe it, and it’s badly done.
1 – Slip on an upper roof: with the momentum gained, the couple of heroes should be thrown far into the void. Out of it, we see them bounce and fall on the lower wall, which is much more vertical.
Terribly badly filmed and very bad idea, especially since there was a way to make the scene logical. There is a railing at the bottom of the sloping roof, and it was easy to show the heroine grabbing this with one hand, to slow down the fall, and sticking to the other wall.
2 – Slipping on the vertical wall: With the previous fall + the height of the wall, it was impossible to get out without damage. The only trick used to slow down the fall: stick the gun to the wall. No, this really doesn’t work.
This whole scene is a fiasco. One had to find something else, like hanging a cable on the railing between the two roofs. The execution is bad.
3 – Aerial scene hung from a cable: one could believe it more, if the directing wasn’t so ugly.
Since I’m talking about the things that don’t work in the episode.
The killer with the sniper rifle:
He arrives early in the room and gets into firing position.
Tae Sul arrives on the stage and begins his presentation.
It is totally illogical that the shooter waits for 3 minutes, while during the time Tae Sul is making his presentation, the shooter has a clear view of an open target with little movement.
Finally, the sniper shoots when there is already movement, and the manager comes to control Tae Sul after he has seen his brother.
For a better scenario, the sniper had to be brought into his firing position just after Tae Sul’s demonstration of quantum teleportation. And thus show that the Sniper really intends to kill him without wasting any time.
Tae Sul Wounded by Bullet: It would have been better to stage a short event, jostling, missed shot, than to show Tae Sul wounded. This is too much of a miracle, and can only be explained if the story has an inevitability factor: Tae Sul alone CANNOT die. The bullets of this kind of rifle are the most powerful bullets that exist. So ok, here the bullet didn’t hit the target, just grazed it, but even so, it doesn’t go well.
Apart from all these shells, the drama is still as effective and exciting.
The story don’t sleep, and move fast. No one second boring. Addicting.
points of note
– Okay. So Eddy Kim and SeoJin (psych) are an item. 😂 So much for my theory of them being insidious spies.
– Ugly malformed beings are being downloaded to the conference site to assassinate TSul. With super strength. But not all of them seemed to be downloaded “completely”? There were some that seemed to have been incomplete in the process. They weren’t functional. Only one made it and was the assassin.
– TSul really is a showman isn’t he? He had the audience eating out of the palm of his hand with his presentation.
– it’s hilarious how TSul was inept whilst SH was Lara Croft. With a floral camo gun 😆
– none of the Police even looked at the deformed security guard assassin who was knocked out cold. They didn’t need to ALL catch her. No one bothered to check on him.
– that slide down the glass of the building with just the butt of the gun to somehow slow them down…okay… 😂😂
– and all the while poor hapless TSul is trying to get the attention of the Police to help him 😆
– TSul faints mid zip line and SH shakes him awake just in time for the landing 😆
– CB is a legitimate government agency. They took care of the aliens who didn’t download properly and the guy who did but was knocked out.
– :😂😂 😂😂 😂😂 😂😂 that’s all I did for the rest of the ep. I am strapping in for the ride. Just for the fun of it. To hell with the science and making sense of it all. CSW and PSH and SDI are making it all worthwhile.
I am to the point of just abandoning all effort to figure it out and just hang tight for the ride.
@nrllee,
Hang tight on to the cable, we’ll wake you up for landing! 🙂 🙂 🙂
Hi @royangi, this show has got its comedic moments, and the scenes you mention are some of them. This show has got a nice casual feel to it, in spite of the tension and the mystery. We can enjoy the action without too much stress, knowing that Show is not taking itself too seriously either.
From Tae Sul’s stage performance (man is certainly full of himself and likes the attention) on stage to Mr Park’s easy going style with that kidnapping and business transactions, show has been more entertaining than anything.
True about the Voldemort look-alike. I did think he looked familiar!! Looks like their skin pigmentation has gone kaput and blood vessels are visible in areas, not to mention that parts of the body don’t seem to have reassembled in the right places. I was guessing at too much time travel and the radiation or whatever energy that goes with it. We see that everyone wore those sleeveless jackets (almost like life vests) before the arrival of the new immigrant. I assume that was to protect their upper bodies from some radiation. They should have totally suited up and protected their heads as well!!
Precisely the question that I think most of us have asked. What took him so long to shoot when he had first aimed at Eddie Kim, then checked the photo and saw that it wasn’t the right man.
It was a very expensive mission to send 4 killers, in the hopes that at least 1 of them could complete his mission, but his mission amounted to merely winging Tae Sul in the ear. How could he miss? Very strange.
Also so in the close quarters shooting with the killer when he came out of the door to attack Seo Hae, how could she miss?!
What’s more, I slowed down the action and could see that Seo Hae released the attacker’s gun cartridge which dropped to the floor. But he was still able to shoot. Are bullets left in the gun even without the cartridge?
@GB : Tae Sul performance was gold!
About the fight.
So, very good enjoyable fight, but I rewatched it right now.
What I know about firearms :
You can remove the cartridge, and there is one bullet left in the fireroom.
So the killer can shoot 1 more times.
Problem here : he shoot 2 times !!!
We need a specialist about that if we want to know more.
Here, it look like a glock gun with something like 17 or 19 cartridge bullets. So the bullets are not one under the other in the cartridge (like Colt .45 ones with 7 bullets cartridge). There is a overlap, because else, you couldnt put as much bullets in a standard cartridge size. Most of modern handguns are made like that today (polymer + high capacity cartridges).
There is a chance that there is another one more bullet in the gun, ready to enter the chamber, plus the bullet already in the chamber.
Look at this picture :
https://www.quora.com/Is-it-possible-for-a-Glock-design-drop-safety-to-fail-and-discharge-if-the-slide-is-hit-by-a-gunshot
You see : there ONE bullet in the fireroom.
There ONE another bullet ready to enter fireroom after that. (horizontal position).
Then you have the others bullets in the cartridge. (tilted position)
Wenchanteur, GB,
Re. the gun. To me, there was no error there.
It’s the “time dilation” I explained about the train in Episode 1.
The alien is the NEWEST alien to arrive.
He’s running.
His clock is SLOWER (or delayed) than SeoHae.
SeoHae’s clock is faster (or advanced) than his time.
One pistol = one magazine (its the container or chamber that holds the cartridges)
One magazine = 10 to 15 rounds (bullets or cartridges)
You replace the magazine when you require more rounds.
In SeoHae’s faster clock (or advanced time), she removed the magazine. It dropped to the ground.
But in the Assassin’s slower clock (or the delayed time), she hadn’t YET removed the magazine. The magazine was still in his gun, and he could still shoot.
🙂
This was like the drone hovering on top of the train I explained in Episode 1.
That time, it was Seohae who was the newly-arrived alien and she had the slower (or delayed) clock.
The drone had the faster (or the advanced) time.
The drone could NOT see her sitting on top of the train. In the drone’s advanced time, she had NOT yet climbed on top of the train.
So Seohae could sit on top of the train because the drone was always AHEAD of her in time. She wasn’t there YET.
Do you get it? 🙂
I think this is one of those “Easter eggs” you mentioned, WEnchanteur.
Just wanted to say Hi!
I will return later on!
@PM3,
-I-don-t-know- 🙂
For sure, I need time dilatation for watching next episode right now !!! 😉
About previous post : translation error, by “cartridge” I wanted to say “magasine”.
I hope the drama won’t give us too much work for separating “Easter eggs” and “Rotten eggs”. Or even, magicaly turn “Rotten eggs” into “Easter” in the end.
Ep 12 : The diploma wasnt an error ! And in this episode, we know why ! Wooo!
@Cleo Hi back to you!!
@WEnchanteur… ‘Woooo’ to you too LOL. Eerie supernatural hints with that diploma. We shall not ghost each other though!
@pkml3, For the sake of discussion (because I dislike argument), I don’t mind your idea of the ‘time dilation’ but I’d like to call it ‘time distension’ instead, because the term ‘time dilation’ has an outcome, ie…that the subject who is moving faster ages relative to one who doesn’t. My husband will argue up and down that it should not be called time dilation (you may know engineers). Therefore, I’m renaming it so that we can discuss without argument LOL.
Gosh, with things like guns still being able to go off after it’s magazine has been removed, it’s hard to know when one is safe!
So the conditions for this to work is that the time distending person has to have just arrived and run, so his time will be behind those ‘around’ him.
But then, it does not really work with how he saw and aimed at Eddie Kim first and then at Tae Sul, but did not press the trigger. The timing was exact when he was shooting at Tae Sul and the bodyguard and into the smoke.
Unless we are saying that he can manipulate time (we did say that Seo Hae slowed down time…) to be faster or slower at will. But then in arm to arm combat, he can choose to be so much faster, so that he can see Seo Hae as moving in slow motion, and be able to beat her in a fight.
So I don’t know … I’ll wait and see.
@GB I decided to leave my brains at the door after that death defying slide down the glass panels of the Conference building. 😂. Time dilation? Time distension? You say Toe-May-toe and I say Toe-Mah-toe. Whatever. But hey I am all for marital harmony. If we must use Time distension in our conversations henceforth to maintain peaceful marital relations then I am all for it. 🙂 Time distension it is.
I’ve been a silent lurker for quite some time now but due to Sisyphus I couldn’t help but comment about it. Show continues to be entertaining which makes me a happy camper.
Episode 3 reminds me of classic popcorn flicks where action and humor goes hand in hand to deliver pure entertainment.
@GB
I’d like to comment about TS being calm under pressure during airplane incident. I think it’s because he knows he could fix the problem as long as he’s capable of. He’s already given his will via video call so he was thinking he might not make it. He’s just not giving up that’s all.
Whereas sliding down a tall building without any protective gear would make any random person scream/shriek in sheer terror or just plain black out and lose consciousness. It wasn’t just done for comedic purposes. At least that’s my take.
As for PSH’s character she is still an enigma as of now.
Can’t wait for episode 4.
@nrllee LOL it’s a term I concocted after referring to the thesaurus, yes all in the name of having a peaceful married life. I can imagine real physicists giving me the eye and a dismissive sniff were I to attempt using ‘time distension’ anywhere outside this place.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
So Sisyphus 1 is being punished by death after he enchained it essentially (taesul) those weird people sent to kill him are a result of his actions that lead to that future, he opened the suitcase and cheated death so just like the tale when death was enchained the first thing it searched for was him. I’m guessing his actions have led to consequences where people from the future also want to get rid of him to stop his pandora actions, whilst Seohae wants to prevent him from doing so so he can survive and the apocalypse world doesn’t happen. Whatever he did to cheat death, whatever he invented it wasn’t good, so there are consequences, people beings sent back to find him and kill him.
@GB Agree about the show’s balance between tense and casual. The airplane scene with Taesul trying to fix the plane had me laughing in ep 1. 🙂
@royangi @M
Those scenes which lighten the tone … it’s true that not all of the scenes were necessarily played to be funny, but they came off that way when juxtaposed against the serious situations that our characters were in. Even how Tae Sul pointed out the gun that SH trained on him and kept trying to call for Police help by waving at them while being dragged away by SH was amusing.
That slide down the outside of the building was a hoot … she merely held on to his collar and off they swooshed, then landed, she rolled over and was up on her feet. It took only about 20 seconds of play time. That was so impressive and at the same time it looked so ‘easy’ that is was funny. Especially since TSul was screaming in fear all the way down LOL.
I know that the actor CSW is a good actor who if needed, would have played that scene differently and given it a different vibe. However his overall rendition of this cavalier character and his expressions are probably calculated to keep us balanced between the serious and the light/funny. That was one improbable and very ‘fun’ building escape.
I just watched episode 4!
There’s a lot of dialogue or scenes with something to say about it.
But I’ll need to revisit the episode and take notes.
For now, I can only say a few generalities.
Already, I liked the episode!
Some of the chase scenes are long, maybe too long. But I have observed that during these scenes, some of the dialogue and shots gave other information as well. So it wasn’t 100% action without other interest.
Among the various qualities of the drama, I had noted that the direction was one of the best so far. Picture quality, movie aspect, and more, a lot of different sets and situations never seen before in dramaland.
From the very beginning of the episode, we have this: a post-apocalyptic future. With even some overviews! No drama has done this before. We also have other visually incredible scenes, such as the chase on the bridge under construction.
The only real weakness of the director is the chases or stunts using the green screen technique. I’m only pointing this out because the fight scenes are better than successful. We have a new example of this in episode 4, Seo Hae’s first fight in the episode (in the street), which was sequence shot.
However, the chases always have flaws. Here, the pursuit with drone, we see too easily the green screen, when both characters are in the car, or some shots on the drones. It’s very uneven, because the subjective views of the drones, or the car exterior shots are successful.
I remember the director did “Legend of the blue sea”. And in the first episodes of the drama, there was a motorcycle chase that was so hideous, that I was about to give up on the drama. This director makes grotesque chases, where there is no tension, where no dramatic effects occur to scare us. And as a comedy, it’s too exaggerated to be funny.
End of the drone chase: the last drone is about to shoot the couple in their car. Suddenly, Seo Hae, who was hiding behind Tae Sul leans over, holding her gun, and makes a joke before eliminating the drone !! Ok, it’s already seen 100 times in various blockbusters. One line joke.
It’s all about the impression of danger you want to generate. I prefer dangerous and dramatic chases. Here, the scene deserved to end differently :
Tae Sul much more scared, and when Seo Hae appears, it’s shot in slow motion, to show that it’s very fast! No two cent jokes.
Technique of time travel.
It works like in the movie Primer. Maybe not entirely, because there are no dooplegangers in Sisyphus so far. There is even a dialogue about a fusion effect if an identical person meets each other. But for the rest, it’s the same, time travel can’t send someone anywhere in time. Such as prehistory or the Middle Ages for example.
You need a point “A” (downloader) and a point “B” (uploader). Two machines connected in time by a quantum process. This makes Sisyphus’ time travel principle one of the most realistic so far (if it is really possible to talk about realism for a SF element).
Later in the drama, in 2020, or maybe 2021+, Tae Sul will invent the downloader and uploader. This will allow time travel between this point (2020, 2021, or year of creation) and a future moment. However, the drama already shows us time travel! How could point “A” exist, when Tae Sul hasn’t invented the time machine yet, in 2020, when we see the drama?
Episode 4 gives a reason: Tae Sul has not yet invented this machine, but he already invented the Downloader, 10 years ago. The episode doesn’t give any more indication on how it works. It’s not a technology created to receive people from the future in the first place. But its use may have been hijacked for that purpose. It’s likely that in the future, when the uploader is created (this time with the intention to use it for time travel), someone found that he could use the original downloader, rather than using the time travel downloader that Tae Sul will create later, at the same time as the uploader, in 2021+ or 2020 if Tae Sul works fast.
A character traveling 10 years before 2020 (it’s impossible to travel to a time before 2010), then improved the 2010 downloader to make it a better adapted technology, with less risk of error. To do so, this character can use the plans of the downloader that Tae Sul will have created later.
I’m getting a wee bit tired of the car chases particularly the last chase before the end of episode four.
For the first time while watching an action scene, I felt a slight headache during the drones chasing them.
So I was hoping for some breather or quiet time and save the next car chase next episode. Sigh.
The cola stunt was a nice one though.
Ep4 as I see it. (Spoilers)
– Park asks SH what her number is. SH said she’s around 250,000. So they are assigned a number which depicts the number of people downloaded into the past. The number on her arm is her unique ID. She’s number 250811. Park mentioned the henchmen were around 10,000 (so they were the earlier ones).
– there’s only a 10% chance of success when downloading (I guess those mutant ones in the convention were the failed ones). About half of those successful are caught by the CB. Which means only 5% of the 250,000 that were downloaded remain in existence.
Thanks to TSul for asking all the relevant questions for us 😂
TS – what is that (the guy is about to inject a hypodermic into the neck of the new guy who was just downloaded)
Henchman1 – Atropine. They are taught to run as soon as they arrive.
TS – why do they come only in their underwear?
H1 – they need to transfer the least amount of information to prevent errors.
TS – what’s in that suitcase?
H1 – stuff they want to bring. Stuff like money.
TS – you said they need the least bit of information…
H1 – they can’t come emptyhanded. They need to survive.
TS – right…but what if someone’s future self comes here? Won’t there be issues if there’s a same identity and information?
H1 – time paradox. Their bodies and memories get mixed. And eventually one side disappears.
There are still lapses in logic but I am done with nitpicking the science of stuff so whatever. TS saves the new dude because he tells him he knows where his brother TSan is. 😮 My logical brain is also suffering lapses because the new dude who arrives is conveniently ripped. 😂. Anyway, TSul being the intelligent man that he is, leaves SH (aka Lara Croft) to handle all the MIB on her own. You go girl! Kapow. Take that you nasty extra with no name. Meanwhile, TS calmly builds an app so he can commandeer an electric car (which doesn’t belong to him). Then TSul yells out mid scripting in Perl, “Stop fighting and come here!” 😂😂😂. She gets overpowered and yells back valiantly (just as he starts the car with the new app), “just go!” TSul looks appalled at the thought of it, “Go? Really?” But he obeys. And SH is caught by the CB.
Just when you thought that TS is scum for leaving his partner like that, as rude CB MIB man (who has lines, ala right hand man of CB chief) slaps SH (you so deserve to die for hitting a woman, how dare you) and threatens to kills her, “do you want to die?”. SH repeats her line, cool as a cucumber, “not today”. And their van gets jackknifed by…wait…an electric car. It can’t be…but it is…TS to the rescue. See, he learns fast. 😂. He chastises her (and I melt), “didn’t I tell you to hurry up?”. She’s just as petulant in her reply. “How could you abandon me?”. And takes her hand. 👍❤️ Love is in the air.
We get a flashback (I think?). Ripped dude is a Police officer (I guess that’s why he’s ripped) who has an ill mother that he has to care for. He doesn’t do a good job of looking after her. He meets a man who was newly downloaded (faulty) who is missing an arm. And later on his arm materializes. So I guess this is why Park asked TSul (TSan) during the phone call if all his limbs were intact? Anyway, he is taken away by the CB together with the new download. Presumably because he’s been contaminated?
Eddy Kim talks to the Chairman (Old dude who told him he could take over from TS) and CB Chief arrives. They talk about the text Eddy was supposed to have received from TS. Chief and Chairman seem to exchange knowing glances (so they obviously know something that Eddy doesn’t). Eddy checks his phone for the text message but it’s not there! Dun dun dun. 🤔. Chief tells Eddy that he’s seeing things because he’s stressed.
TS asks SH pertinent questions about the uploader/downloader which he deduces is his creation. The teleportation device that he used. He asks what’s with the radiation spikes in the Geiger counter. Then he none so subtly tells her to stay on her side of the car (away from him) 😂. He brings up the wedding photo. Then reveals that she’s not exactly his type. 😂 She says ditto. So they make a pact NOT to get married in the future. His jibes at her just crack me up. “Why are you here? Is there some secret to your birth? Am I your dad?” 😂😂😂😂.
Eddy signs document of dismissal of TS. Date 15Aug 2020.
SH tells TS that everyone is trying to kill him. CB and Sigma. She tells him Sigma is trying to kill him because of his uploader invention. She’s here to protect him and stop him from inventing the uploader. New dude says his final farewell to his mom. Then gives them TSan’s address. Tells TS not to go to the study on the second floor. Tells SH not to go outside. He’s the sniper whose first mission (by CB) is to kill her. Tact team (TT) from CB swarms in. And SH with her spidey senses realizes in the nick of time and they hide? She tosses a smoke bomb and tact team unleashes multiple rounds everywhere. It’s a miracle they don’t kill each other you know? Thanks be to Kevlar. SH singlehandedly takes them all out. No need for ripped dude to intervene. Wait…tact team has infrared technology but for some reason, SH remains undetected. She’s a cold blooded killer. My word, someone in the TT has brains. They use a simple fan to clear the smoke to reveal SH in all her leather clad glory. TS tells her to come over here. What a man. Good thinking. SH rushes into the kitchen, opens the fridge door which acts as a shield against the rapid gunfire from TT. TT yell out their warning, “surrender now. it’s over” Like hell it is. Because TS morphs into MacGyver once more. He’s mixing cola with something. Product placement I see you. Meanwhile Chief is watching remotely from HQ (through someone’s body cam I guess), probably cursing at their ineptitude? TSul explains the whole science around his escape plan. Thank you. I so needed that. And launches glass coke bottles into the faces of TT! Why didn’t I think of that? Last man standing takes pot shots at the fridge door. Succeeds only in hitting eggs. TS launches another coke bottle into his face and he too is out for the count. Now that’s the way to impress a woman. Way to go TS. SH is a goner. She’s fallen head over heels for sure. Ripped dude stumbles out from the bedroom where his mom was, he’s been hit. Who would’ve guessed? His number was up. But not before he asks them to forgive him for his deeds (later on?) and he gives them his car keys. Of course he does. Second Unit who has been waiting outside all this time whilst first unit was taken out by coke bottles, decides just at that moment to head inside. And TS and SH jump out of the side window and escape just in the nick of time. They get into a cute red car and speed away. TT2 sifts through the mess inside. Takes a good couple of minutes before it dawns on TT2 leader that the window was open and that was how they escaped. Reports to a frustrated Chief who screams at his surveillance team, “Find them!” And decides that humans are imbeciles so decides to utilize technology and sends drones in pursuit instead.
TS wonders how they found them and realizes his phone GPS was the culprit so he decides to just get rid of it. But not before he tries to take out a drone with it in the process. What a man. If you’re going to toss a phone out a car window why not use it as a projectile to take out an enemy drone? It worked with coke bottles. But no, he misses. The car chase is just…hilarious…suffice to say the drones have machine guns strapped to them. And they cause a lot of damage to public property. The streets are strangely deserted but hey maybe it’s lockdown. Then by sheer luck (I want to think it’s deliberate on TS’s part – his driving is worthy of a stunt driver), 2 of the drones get taken out. With the 3rd one out of commission care of the car door. Hey, whatever works. But what about the last one? Better just stop the car and let it find us you know? And it falls into the trap. Loads up ready to fire at TS who just stares like a deer in spotlights. SH shoves him aside and shoots. Bullseye. Screen greys out for CB Chief. Take that you loser! But it’s not over. Chief heads out with everyone in HQ and they continue the chase. They must’ve just been around the corner because before you know it, they are right on the tail of the little red car (Elon eat your heart out). They enlist the police to help who set up a barricade. Which appears to be set up wrong because everyone just zips past. 😑 The road ends for them and they get out of the car. TS tells SH to take her leather jacket off because it absorbs water. Chief gets out of his car all smug thinking he has them caught now. Meanwhile, TS asks SH how much she weighs (he needs to calculate if they will survive the jump). She refuses to tell him. He conveniently aims high, “55kg?” She retorts, “50!” So he rambles on about how she will end up 7m under water from that height. Then he grabs her hand (so smooth 🥰), “so don’t let go of my hand.” 😂. She gets shot on her arm mid flight as they leap off the bridge and she lets go of his hand. O No! She loses her diary which opens to a page and voice over reads the entry from herself. “Happy birthday SH. By the time you read this, I’ll be dead. Save HTS and you will save the world. If you save him, the war can be stopped. Only you can do this.” The writing fades as she opens her eyes to see TS swimming towards her. She revisits her father’s warning to her before she left the future.
Hi @WEnchanteur,
There is a doppleganger in Episode 4. It’s the Office Jung who got strangled by the bald arrival and they were taken by the ICB. In the meantime the future Officer Jung arrived where SH, TSul and Park were. Future Officer Jung gave TSul the address to a party where he is supposed to be able to find his brother.
TSul asks the broker kidnapper : “What is someone’s future self comes here. Won’t there be any issues if it’s the same identity and information?”
Kidnapper: “Time paradox. Their bodies and memories get mixed. And eventually, one side disappears.” Looks like the future Jung is killed but the present Jung also disappears after ICB took him.
Jung gave the party address: the home of Chairman Kim of Quantum & Time. This makes sense in that I feel Chairman Kim is in the know and may be helping ICB. He was present in the meeting between ICB Hwang and Eddie Kim Seung Bok, and he introduced Hwang as from the National Intelligence Agency. He looked like he knew what was taking place – he and Hwang exchanged looks twice – I think that they knew that they were going to make Eddie think he was imagining stuff (gaslighting?) when he said he had seen the location message from TSul. It may have been deleted by Chairman.
Chairman wants Eddie to take over Quantum & Time and for TSul to disappear.
So now we hear of Sigma being another party that wants TSul dead. At last we know why there’s the Sigma alphabet/symbol in the title. The logo on the card that SH shows TSul looks something like a Crescent with the Sigma interwined in it.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dh_x_Pqo081hQ4BRo5XOvP-ikdTKL1ap/view?usp=sharing
I hope you’re right and it sounds scientifically right. The conversation around timestamp 34:00:
SH : “There are uploaders in the future. I don’t know how it works, but it’s like a copy machine. They copy stuff and send it to the other side. They go inside a huge machine.”
TSul : “It’s a quantum teleporter. It teleports objects by controlling the time value. That’s what I demonstrated at the conference. But controlling the time of humans or other objects with a huge amount of information is technically impossible.”
SH : “I’m not sure but it was around 2021 when the uploaders appeared.”
I liked the transitions of scenes when SH spoke of why people came back…it was out of regret.
Cut to Eddie looking pensive and signs the paper (DATE August 15, 2020!!) to but is regretful
Cut to Seo Jin looks at the photo of herself in foreground and TSul in the background and looks regretful too.
Officer Jung lays his mum down gently, knowing that she’s going to die. He apologises to his mum.
However in the car to the mum’s place, the date is August 19, 2020.
LOLOL @nrllee thanks for that great commentary on the ridiculousness of the show, it was soooo funny. ٩( ๑╹ ꇴ╹)۶
I wonder if that Police Officer partner/friend of the ripped Officer Jung will play any future part in show, because he’s stunned that he sees the ‘robbery’ address as Jung’s address and the car that is the getaway car he’s supposed to stop (but they put the barricade in the wrong place!) is Jung’s car.
I’m thinking we should see some attempts by viewers to try that stunt with Coke bottles. Coke and butane gas missiles … so cool!
SH and TSul – I loved their bickering. He deliberately speaks like he does not care for anyone except himself (and he did look like he was going to abandon Jung), but actually he bothers about people and saved SH from the ICB when he could have gotten away (at least temporarily?)
He sounds like one of those kids who just insults for the sake of riling up the other party, but it hides a heart that cares.
I’m interested in the fact that his bodyguard genuinely likes him, and Eddie seems really loyal. He did not relish taking over the company. He did not want to sign until after he was gaslighted into thinking that he’d just imagined the location message from Tae Sul. He seems to have dated the document as the 15th Aug, although we are told that the phone turned on, on the 19th. So time is still going crazy.
Also it was day time for Tae Sul when he was with Park and gang, but it was night time for Officers Jung and his partner when they apprehended the new arrival.
Let’s see if TSul can get to the party to meet his brother by the 27 Aug!!!
Wow! Thanks for this, nrllee!! I was snickering at your side comments!
It’s worth reading your post despite my migraine. 😵
Hi @pkml3 Have a rest and get over the migraine! Will coffee help or just a dark room and some rest?
Overview after rewatch.
Beginning of the episode: Splendid! The reconstruction of the post-apocalyptic Seoul is magical. The detailed backgrounds, wide, with finally a general view.
What is a cute warrior girl with a heart of blue flower?
She uses assault rifle, wastes ammunition and strafes a glass bollard to get her teddy bear! LOL! I think a rifle butt would have been enough. Fun as a simple walk can be enriched (thanks to the quality script) to build the character.
The tattooed numbers are simply similar to an incremental computer ID number. Unique ID number, the upload number, in order.
Park’s acolytes arrived a long time ago because they have a number of 10000. Seo Hae has the number 250811.
This means that so far, 250000 people have been sent in the past!
But we can imagine that there are more people than that in 2020, coming from the future, it depends on how the time travel principle works.
– Either the time difference is invariant (e.g. we can only go back exactly X years), in this case, 250000 is an exact number.
– Or it is possible to go back whenever you want. This means that a traveler being uploaded 3 months after Tae Sul could go back in the past before Tae Sul appears.
I’m leaning towards the first solution, just by instinct.
Then, 10% of downloads succeed. This gives us 25000 people coming from the future.
Then, 12500 of these people were imprisoned or eliminated by ICB. But perhaps less than that, if we take into account that ICB was not put into service as soon as the downloads started. (it would have been put into operation in 2019).
12:00 : a lot of information. We know why Seo Hae came barefoot! Avoid download errors.
The acolyte wants to drug the newcomer, because he doesn’t want him to “run”. Seo Hae was also informed by her father that she should “run”. It is assumed here that “running” is using the strange ability to make timeshifts.
If there is the same person twice: body and memories are mixed up. The appearance of the brother from the future is the same as in 2020, not the appearance of the (older) future. Same for the young policeman. As for Seo Hae, has she also merged with herself? Or has she not been born yet? Do the two characters have to meet each other? The policeman is going to die, but everything indicates that his alter-ego is still alive. Mystery.
Maybe that’s what happened in The King Eternal Monarch when the character was the same age. Except that it was never shown or explained in episode 14 or 15. Here we have at least one indication, from episode 4.
20:00: Seo Hae says “I will not die today”.
Added to this the previous episode “the future cannot be changed”.
I wonder if there is not an inevitable side to events.
Since Seo Hae and Tae Sul have a picture of them (marriage) in the future, they must necessarily survive until then. That’s why the sniper wasn’t going to shoot Tae Sul at the conference before he missed. Or that the characters get away with it in a spectacular and incredible way. They can’t die, because events will always make it impossible.
To be more exact: the events in the current time loop depend on those in the immediately preceding loop.
Traveller without arms: this shows that the download is incomplete, but can be completed a few seconds later.
29:40 : ICB is an organization supervised by the NIS, since its leader has an authorization to present himself as a member of the NIS.
33:00 : I may have made a mistake before (or translation error). There, he coded the downloader in 2001, not 2010.
Then, Seo Hae says that the uploaders appeared in 2021. If Tae Sul invented the time machine, it would be in 2021 (or late 2020).
Ramyun mother: this plot is appalling.
The son goes back in time to make his mother eat ramyun. This is forbidden to her because it is dangerous for her health. The mother eats the ramyun, then she dies … Well done, the son who takes care of his mother! LOL!
45:00 – We learn of the existence of a mysterious individual or organization called Sigma. Probably the toughest villain in the drama, and the most frightening. ICB look like nice guys in comparison.
Seo Hae’s answer is vague: who is trying to kill Tae Sul? EVERYONE! lol! But Sigma a little more than the others. Re-lol! And why is that? Because he invented the uploader. Actually, no, he hasn’t invented it yet, but they don’t want him to. Is it really possible to stop him? That would be a paradox…
Seo Hae is the only one who wants to protect Tae Sul, but there’s no way he will invent the uploader. At least everyone agrees on that! Good guys and bad guys alike.
45:55 – the policeman comes back to say thank you. Ok, thanks for helping me kill my own mother with ramyuns, lol!
47:00 -> end of episode: Fight, Fight, Chase, Chase.
– ICB command center. The hunt is shot like the CIA hunting down Jason Bourne. Lots of nice visuals, high tech, movie like.
– Cute Pink Kitty on the smoke grenade. 🙂
– A stray bullet kills the policeman… Karma doesn’t drag its feet for people who kill their mother !!
– Shots in the refrigerator door. The main problem here is that you can’t see the bullet impacts (the holes). Then, is it enough to stop the ammunition? Here 9mm probably, since they use PDW and not assault rifles.
– ICB: perhaps this organization would be more efficient, if they hired competent people, rather than models. ^^
– An answer to people who wondered: ICB erases its compromising traces, with the power of an official organization.
– End of the drone chase: I said something wrong before, there is a slow motion!
– Entrance of the bridge: the camera insists on the chief of police. Wouldn’t that be Seo Hae’s father?
– Final stunt : I want to watch the BTS!
Scene in the water: the abominable song of the drama. (what an atrocious voice!)
A message from Seo Hae to herself… Looks like she’s the only one who knows that if Tae Sul survives, the war can be stopped.
Apparently the Lieutenant that was Officer Jung’s senior? Someone in the other forum mentioned he looks suspiciously like SH’s dad?
“I will not die today” sounds like a refrain.
Thanks for the breakdown, WEnchanteur. This will save me time looking for things in the show.
You’re really loving this kdrama, I see. Will this finally replace “W” in your heart?
I’m in a dark room now. Turning the background of my phone black also helps . Less eye strain.
Taesul is not the swoony time male hero but I’m sold. There’s something about his bickering/nagging that’s endearing.
They sound like an old married couple. 🙂
I like how he looks like he has two left feet and will trip over himself while running alongside her.
@nrllee,
He looks a lot like him.
Same eyebrows, same nose, same mouth, same cheek folds around the nose. Same wrinkle between the two eyes.
Packmule I think this episode proves again your Seohae slows time theory (I can’t remember how you explained it) but basically the reason why she was able to shoot the drone and the guy hesitated was that he wasn’t hesitating she was again controlling the situation and making his reaction time slow or something, so that’s why he didn’t shoot immediately. Don’t know if I’m saying the right things.
Um there’s a lot this episode that I’m still trying to figure out, you know sci fi, and logic of shows aren’t what I see easily however I’m just stating some ideas since now I’m using the greek myth as my base/ outline for the show’s storyline
So Seohae I think keeps repeating the time loop like packmule said but before she does she’s always having an opportunity to meet her other self? (I don’t know how) But I think that’s why she’s always forgetting her memories or just knowing some things but not. There’s a foreshadowing quote this episode that if you meet your self your memories mix and only one side remains, maybe that’s what’s she’s doing, maybe she uses the uploader the first time to go instead of the past to the future to make her other self return to the past to save TS. But I’m so confused with this theory and I don’t have enough evidence just that quote and the way she doesn’t remember some things, like I can’t tell how much she remembers each loop, there must be a reason why she has left her self instructions each time she repeats, it could be she does remember even knows that they’re married later (which I think is a big day that leads to everything happening including why TS makes the uploader)m and she’s just pretending but she really does seem surprised by some of his comments, and she doesn’t seem like she truly knows this guy who she would give everything up for because of love. I just think her memories are mixed between her self who knows him and remembers their time and the next self who has to go back and save him.
That’s her Sisyphus punishment i think. to constantly keep going back preventing him from making the mistake but always failing.
As for taesul he does admit everything about his invention however is his company going to be involved in causing the war? or using his invention to do something. There must be a reason chairman who sees him as a son wants him out, either to prevent him from creating the time machine (like everyone else is trying to do but I don’t still understand the aims of the ICB or sigma to be honest) or to use it for their own good. so the question now is what war? why does the time machine cause a war? and how is taesul’s death leading to this war that ruins everything
Jung is an interesting character, he’s being lied to, to become the person he regrets later in the future that leads Taesul to dying, so what’s his role in this, does he end up being the one who shoots Seohae in the wedding?
Seohae’s father is adamant that she shouldn’t try to save TS this means he knows and has seen her do this constantly every time she goes back, everyone is repeating their time and their actions and they don’t know but Seohae’s father probably remembers everything when she always goes back, he always warns her but he probably knows it’s futile she’ll always choose taesul.
So yeah I guess we’ll soon finally get to see why TS and SH love each other much because as of now, I’m so surprised that their love is probably what is causing this whole situation we’re in, i think TS always saves her over the world and invents the thing to save her life, I always think she goes back always to save the world but also to save him because of her love. So they’re both being Sisyphus for each other, and basically being punished for that. TS is being chased by Sigma a result of his actions I’m guessing, and SH is always forced repeat failing to prevent him from doing this (which I think her punishment is her doing it with bits of memory constantly watching him die)
It’s hard for me to analyse this show because like I said when it comes to the sci fi or the scientific explanations I’m not good at doing so, I don’t get the lore/laws of the show, however I feel like the original myth has helped me understand/ guess what may be happening to the characters in a metaphorical way. So now it’s just me piecing together everything. I still don’t fully get the rules of the show,
and I’m guessing Taesan is here as well to stop TS from creating the time machine (I won’t be shocked if he’s part of Sigma if they’re like doing all this for the good of the world he basically destroys by his actions not just for control or power)
Sorry this is a upload of my scrambled thoughts about the show.
I like that Seohae is a fan of BTS. She’s even has “Spring Day” on her phone.
Does that means she was already alive when BTS was around or that BTS is like the new Bach — you don’t have to be alive during their time to know them?
WEnchanteur, lol. She wasted ammunition on that claw machine. But I’m glad there was no claw machine trope where the guy plays it just to win a stuff toy for the girl. I like this one better. She helps herself to the toy without anybody’s help.
I’m watching the episode using your write-ups as guide. Thanks.
@nrllee @WEnchanteur
Yes, it looks like Seo Hae’s dad. Take a look… same eyes and nose?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/16DGVS31Fa3XP5KUAsTXq-e8ONrdr9Vqg/view?usp=sharing
@Packmule3,
No, it is far from W, or even from Memories of the Alhambra.
It’s too much of a departure from the tone, already. How can I say, MOA had the same serious content from beginning to end, and the comedy was always welcome, subtle. So, we believed in it and we never got out of the story with incongruous details. And the tone of W was from the beginning focused on the comedy coming from the meta aspect. Here too, the drama has a coherent tone from beginning to end. More deep and mind-blowing anyway. It’s the kind of drama you can watch x12.
There are too many shells in Sysiphus now. The most unfortunate thing is often a problem of directing, or wanting to do too much show, to the point that it’s sometimes silly. I’m not as cynical as nrllee, but I’m cured of my excessive enthusiasm. I’m ready to see some badly done scenes in the episodes and be disappointed by some details. Or even laugh about it. After the first two episodes, I was hoping for something more serious, more dramatic, something you can believe in from start to finish!
For the plot and the ideas on the other hand, it’s excellent. An original and dynamic time travel story. The script is good in the way it disperses the mysteries. It’s never boring, the action is clear, and there’s a lot of unexpected, hard to know what will happen in the next episode. I guess you could see that, and you had a lot of fun analyzing the episodes.
And about other part of the directing, it’s wonderfull, plus never seen in a drama fight scenes, and very good background music.
@GB, 🙂
You just take the exact same screenshots I was looking at.
Yes, should be him…
That’s an interesting surmise, @Beingwritten, that both TSul and SH are Sisyphus, destined to keep going back to saving each other and so causing the war and so on and so forth, looping through time.
It is possible (even likely, because this show is good in giving us nuggets that it will show us again, in a more significant moment) that Jung will be the one who shoots SH. I’m intrigued by what he says.
Timestamp 51:31 Jung comes out of the room, dying from being shot and tells them to use his car. He tells SH “No matter what I do from now on, forgive me. That’s the only way you can win.”
I’d really like to see what forgiving him will change to enable SH to win.
When you suggest that Tae San could be part of the brains of Sigma, I felt that, it’s possible too. He seems to be up and about but refusing to show himself to his brother. We ‘know’ he’s the one who sprayed the red paint message to tell TSul not to look for him or he’d die. It could be from foreknowledge that he warns him. How true that will be if Tae San himself will be the one to kill his brother.
Just as in the same way SH and others claim that they will not die ‘today’, we expect that they know when they are supposed to die.
@GB @WEnchanteur it makes sense if he is SH’s dad. He was regular with the Lotto numbers. So that’s how SH knew.
Woah! Yes, it all comes together! @nrllee @WEnchanteur. That’s right. She was tuned in to know Lotto numbers because her dad avidly bought them and repeated the same number 10 times!!!
It’ll be interesting to see what will happen when SH meets dad in the present. Of course they are going to meet!! Then will she meet herself in the present as well, and will she be younger? If they are all about the same age, we are dealing with parallel universes then.
@nrllee, there is a sequence during ep 4 where he do loto ? Damn, I watched this x2 and don’t remember that!
@GB, my idea is… It’s Jung who shoot Seo Hae during the mariage scene.
Remember ? The scene don’t want we see the face of the shooter.
@WEnchanteur he was marking Lotto numbers in the convenience store around 24:03
@nrllee, you I checked.
It’s not fair for the drama, we guess too much. At first the drama was strong enough for lurring us, even that. Now, it become more difficult.
I would be watching it alone, I wouldnt see all that. In a way I would be more surprised and maybe enjoying it.
So, Seo Hae know loto number because the dad… and not because a quantum intrication phenomena. AH AH! It’s better like that because I feeled it was not accurate with the others “run” phenomena.
Hello ladies, thank you all for all your brilliant inputs in analyzing this drama so far. I still enjoy watching this show after 4 episodes.
I have a question about Seo Hae. In the beginning of Ep4 in which the setting was back to the future world. SH was in a store searching for battery (?) and there came 2 men with guns trying to stick that uploader flyer onto the glass/wall and 1 went into the store to check if anyone was there. He was just right next to SH but managed to miss her – apart from the different time loops theory, I wonder if SH also has the ability to make herself invisible? I have this question because she was in the future world at that time but maybe she was just lucky and got misses out by that guy?
@nrllee, I almost dropped my phone while reading your hilariously accurate summary of Episode 4. “Conveniently ripped”😂😂😂!
It looks like CB is blackmailing people with regrets into doing some dirty work.
And who is/are Sigma?
@nrllee – thanks for the fun recap of ep4!!!
Other observations:
“Bring The Soul the movie”, a documentary on BTS, was released in august 7, 2019 and SH was playing ”Spring Day”. Uploader was created in 2021, after which there was a war and a lot of people perished. So BTS is a pop culture reference to pre-dystopian SK. SH was happy to get a poster!
As per Google (since I’m not BTS Army), BTS’s 2017 hit “Spring Day” is a reflective, passionate tune about love, loss, and yearning for the past – related to a sad event or tragedy. Ah, very fitting for this episode, where regrets are main motivation to go back to the past.
It doesn’t say what year was SH in the future. Dystopian SK has bad air but does not seem to require gas mask 100% of the time. Plants, vines and weeds are growing so I assume life can still grow from the soil. Not sure how contaminated this world is. They showed plastic water bottles, still there after many years. Money (at least the paper bills) doesn’t seem as important since SH threw it away.
Mr Park said “we arrived early, theirs were 10,000 (the 2 young men)”. So he was an early adaptor? If he runs his business by hijacking time travelers driven by regret, he should know they will not have money in the suitcases but mostly memorabilia or lots of noodles! Not a sure-fire revenue stream.
“The future is a mirror of the present that can’t be changed.” Is the perfect adage for a Sisyphean task like what SH and TSul will face. Especially if fueled by regret. What Officer Jung said about forgiveness is key. Forgiving him (for shooting her), forgiving themselves for the regrets and misgivings they have done/not done in the past. “ That’s the only way you can win.”
Last one: I think Officer Jung’s mother, in the past, died on the same date. That’s why he wanted to come back and not fight with his mom, instead indulge her on ramyeon and apologize and be with her.
@Janey,
Yes, you are probably right about the mom. Anyway, it was the date of her death.
So as well eat a last ramyun before as a last cigaret.
I explained it otherly mainly for joking. 🙂
@WEnchateur – I know. 😉 😂
I was thinking of what food would I want as a last meal and ramyeon doesn’t sound so bad. Steak and eggs or burger and fries may be the common comfort food from my side of the world.
@Janey,
I have a little anectode about ramyeons.
I saw the Kkondae Intern drama, and that was the last straw.
All the dramas make me envy this common dish, and in Kkondae Intern, the story is about a company that produces ramyeons! In the drama, a character creates a new brand of ramyeon, super spicy. In the beginning, it’s a fiasco, because a video is put online on the internet, showing an old man eating the ramyeons, then falling down. Everybody believes that these ramyeons are dangerous. In reality, the old man falls backwards because the ramyeons were so good.
So I ordered some ramyeons on the internet. All the brands among the spicy ones. I’m used to eating spicy food, and I thought it would be just a joke, that the ramyeons couldn’t be that spicy, if they were sold so widely in supermarkets.
I was really surprised. My mouth was on fire. And the next day, my butt hurt when I pooped! That’s actually a line from a drama I saw recently (I can’t remember which one), in which the heroine eats spicy ramyeons, and someone tells her that tomorrow her ass will hurt.
The drawings on the bags of spicy ramen are very funny, and promote the spicy side. We see chicken characters with their beaks wide open and spitting flames like a dragon, with tears in their eyes, so it stings. Or things like that. The advertising is there to say: it’s going to hurt a lot, you won’t be disappointed!
I just finish back to back episodes! Ok, first thing, I hereby declare this pair as My Same Same Couple. ^^
Secondly, man this director. *sigh* he misses a lot of momentum. The bunch of police leaving unconscious criminal lying on the ground, the CB agents not alert enough, those future agent didn’t notice SH’s hiding in that shop etc. The car chasing in the small alley just a tad too long, man. It became anti-climatic(?). But I laughed so hard when drone #3 found its death. Those young bums at the CB HQ … Grrrr…. my only saviors through this ride are the witty lines between Taesul and SH. As TS said, “In short, don’t let go of my hand” hahahahhaah
I am gonna leave a bit of logic behind for now and let the show unravel itself. My Same Same Couple better get married as planned. 😛
P/S: Sniper guy only decided to shoot when TS moved towards TH. So they don’t want two brothers to meet…Hmmmm… So when future self returns to present time, one has to die for the world to stay in balance, hence the recent arrival died since his present self is with CB being recruited as agent.
@WEnchanteur – that was hilarious anecdote!
There was a spicy ramen challenge going on in YouTube sometime ago and my family actually tried it. I am not sure if it’s the same brand as what you had but by golly, it was extremely spicy. I only got one spoonful in and gave up! There is some truth in advertising. 😂
Yes, I can see the headlines, WEnchanteur. Man eats spicy ramen, poops fire.
It’s true, but we just don’t talk about it. 🙂 You get the same effect when you eat really hot buffalo wings. And that’s why I avoid Tabasco sauce and sriracha sauce.
It’s because of:
A. the capsaicin, which is found in chili peppers, is also found in Mace.
B. and receptor cells found in your mouth, your gastro-intestinal tract, your rectum and your anus.
Alas! Capsaicin and these receptors cells aren’t really meant for each other.
Doctors say that the capsaicin isn’t completely absorbed by your body, so what comes in, must come out the other end of your body.
https://www.medicaldaily.com/why-does-it-burn-poop-after-eating-spicy-food-pain-receptor-your-anus-partly-414052
So I went to YouTube to try to get a handle on Quantum Teleportation. The Dummies version. These videos were helpful. He talks too fast for me though. I have to watch it a few times to make sense of it.
https://youtu.be/d3zTfXvYZ9s
https://youtu.be/dAaHHGHuy1c
there’s a gadget/wheel icon on YouTube. Click on it then click on the “playback speed.” Then adjust the speed to slow down the speech.
Lol. I do this all the time. I find that the “younger” generation — the millennials! — speak at a rapid pace too so I’m always looking for ways to playback at a slow speed or read the transcripts. 🙂
Thanks heaps @nrllee and @pkml3, I watched the videos plus the one he mentions by CGP Grey on Startrek teleportation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQHBAdShgYI&t=0s
That was very interesting. I was trying to write out what stuck with me and started tying myself up in knots again, so I won’t post it.
The fact that unlike TK:EM, this drama is supposed to be based on doable quantum teleportation, is what makes it most exciting to me. Of course we will look for (and likely find lots of) holes in what is supposed to be the science in this show, and have a barrel of fun doing it.
ᕕ(⌐■_■)ᕗ ♪♬
Kalimera to everyone,
I finally managed to watch these episodes.
As it seems we have matter teleportation as the way they are downloading people in the present / past.
The thing is why Seo Hae’s mom told her to save Tae-Sul at all costs, while her father told her not to?
Is Seo Hae’s mom working with Tae-Sul? How does she know that?
Also, imo Kim Han-Yong was manipulating Tae Sul in order to create the quantum teleportation device, in order to spread havoc. That’s why they (KHY and the Control Bureau guy) gaslighted Kim Eddie to believe that he is losing his mind.
Still, the time concept is messed up. I believe it has to do with the quantum field.
Hi my dear @Cleo,
You said something interesting but I re-watched Ep 4 and could not locate this part.
In which episode and which part (if you remember) did she mention her mother or where did this info come from?
Yes not just teleportation but with time travel, which adds a greater complication to the quantum physics of it, I should think.
Yes time is all messed up. The people who reported the new uploader who was in just his underwear, stealing from them (he grabbed a bottle of water from the ladies?) couldn’t agree on whether it was half an hour or 1 hour earlier that it happened.
The Concept of Later
Policeman Hyeong Gi’s mum didn’t want to eat bland food and said she’s going to die anyway (later) … and it actually becomes prophetic. She also says to him: “I’ll see you later“. This comes true but it’s the son of the future whom she sees later.
Present Hyeong Gi rejects her call and tells his partner that he hates her. Partner says: “You should do better, Hyeong Gi. You’ll regret it later when your mother is gone. Just like I did. Be good to her while you can.”
So this will later play into Hyeong Gi wanting to kill Seo Hae for ‘killing’ his mum. This is from the preview but I believe HG will be gaslighted into thinking that Seo Hae robbed and killed his mum.
And yet this ep, we get the pathos of the later/futuristic Hyeong Gi, who comes back just to give his mum her last meal, and then to die in the present.
So the likely paradox… if Hyeong Gi had not returned to the present, would the current HG ever blame Seo Hae for his mum’s death? No … he’d have been filled with regrets, blaming himself,… but the repeated cycle is that then he’d take this trip back into the past.
However he gave Tae Sul the info that would bring him to the 27 Aug party.
Then by coming to the present, did Seo Hae cause the future catastrophe that Hyeong Gi apologised to her for (we guess it’s him shooting her at her wedding)? This is likely.
If Seo had not returned, would ICB have caught on to TSul as early as they did in this present time? Probably not, since they only heard of him first through her call to Quantum & Time.
Seo Hae told TSul that people come back out of regret, that although they cannot change what happened, they regret not doing something or other. However, it seems that there’s no way they can come back without changing happenings. For one thing, time gets ‘warped’ and we are no longer certain if the time is flowing linearly so that we know what date or time it is.
For another thing, knowledge that the present folks should not have keeps seeping through to them who would not have otherwise known it.
Scale of Show
The scale of show is quite impressive. Even from the previous episodes, I was marveling at the great number of extras they must have hired for the Uploader scene, the Conference scene, the pedestrians, etc… and of course the large teams of ICB.
The set for the post apocalyptic Seoul is very impressive too. The scene of the aftermath after years when nature has returned to overrun the city is heartbreaking and awesome at the same time. That was some seriously good CGI to create such a detailed and wide expanse of post-destruction landscape.
Another anomaly
I’m not making a list of the weird things like the ‘double buying of bananas’, however another anomaly that struck me is that although Seo Hae’s wrists were tied together in the ICB van, after TSul rammed his car into it, the cords just dropped off and we see they land on the floor of the van. Can’t explain it except that a collision between the present and the future loosened bonds! LOL.
@GB I am getting muddled up with all the permutations of multiple loops. 😂. Also I want to know how TSan remains so young and changes so little when he loops back? If the photo of TSan’s reflection is to be believed then he should be 10 years older from when we first see him at the shareholders dinner. His hair is still the same. 😂 At least the dad of SH looks older in the future? Officer Jung also looks pretty much the same but hey Koreans look forever young so okay.
Hey @GB,
It was in the last scene, while she was sinking in the water. We hear Seo Hae mom’s voiceover, what it was written on her agenda, while the ink is being erased because of the water…
I agree with you about the Ex Officer now CB man in black, that he was being lied to about the death of his mom. The weird stuff is how did they identify her during the chase? Is she born at the time?
I think that although they say that they cannot manipulate the future, they actualy do. It has to do with matter and space. But since I am not into physics that much, I cannot explain the laws as I would love to.
While we are talking about this I remembered Einstein’s Philadelphia experiment back in WW II. But I cannot find something credible for you to read…
Hi @Cleo, I re-watched that part… my subs translate the Diary Entry when SH sinks in the water as:
That voiceover was from herself, I believe. So her father, knowing the past, tells her to avoid Han Tae Sul. Probably it was (my speculation) because her being with TSul leads her to meet Hyeong Gi and get shot. However, for reasons not clear to herself, she writes a message to herself to save Tae Sul, while her other objective seems to be to keep him from creating the Uploader.
I’m thinking it is another paradox here, because there’s no way to keep TSul alive and well, and in control of himself and his funds, and at the same time stop him from building the Uploader, or going as far as his genius can take him, … especially if it will bring back his hyung. the only way to save mankind, from ‘the war where everyone dies’, will be to kill Han Tae Sul. Seo Hae, by keeping TSul alive is likely contradicting her own instructions.
@nrllee, IKR … I did try and got myself in knots so I stopped. What you say about the ages or ageing may be yet another anomaly. Or it may be real time dilation at work (not my fabricated time distension). Tae San may have been in a ‘realm’ where time moves slower for him. He may think he’s been away for a few days but when he returns it is 10 years later. However if that’s the same for him… then also for Hyeong Gi? And how about for Seo Hae whom we know went to the past more than once? Hmmm. I want to know if Seo Hae already exists in the current timeline.
For SH’s dad, Kang Dong Ki, it looks like he never time- traveled/teleported maybe? He just aged normally. I was wondering in my other post if we’d see a current Seo Hae… 10 or more years younger. If so, then she grew normally until whatever year it was in the future.
However is we see an adult Seo Hae as well (the way we see the adult Hyeong Gi… unless the HG we see is meant to look years older) then are we to think that adult Seo Hae went into the future and then returned from it to the past? (I don’t think so, based on her attitude in the future apocalyptic time. She looked like she really belonged there and was happy to find her BTS poster but not particularly nostalgic.) Or are we to think that there’s a parallel universe of another adult Seo Hae? (also unlikely based on how people are remembering things linearly). So I’m back to thinking that Seo Hae grew up in the future world post-war ‘where everyone died’.
ヽ༼ຈʖ̯ຈ༽ﾉ
From what we gather from the diary entry… Seo Hae returns to the past more than once. She dies on her return (and she possibly knows roughly when, but it’s never ‘today’!!!). But before that, she engineered a way to get her diary to return to the possession of younger self who would then grow up and follow instructions and do the whole cycle of time-travel again. That’s as far as I’m able to reason it out!!!
But then again we have the time warp thingy, so who knows!!!
(◔_◔)
@GB see that’s what I don’t get. How old would present SH be in 2020? If her birthdate is the suitcase combination (120930), then she’s born 2012. Which would make her about 8yo now. How can she NOT know to peel a banana before eating it? If she had been say a toddler when the Holocaust happened and didn’t know how to do it herself then yeah I would believe it? Like you said, she seemed pretty at ease in the Future world? Where everything is destroyed? Almost as if she grew up in that world? And that was all she “knew”? I think we need to keep watching to fill in the blanks. 😂
I am off to watch RWTMR for the next 2 days.
@GB @nrllee yeh I think there are two SH and when she meets her self she loses her memories due to the paradox foreshadowing quote in last episode I don’t know how but she keeps repeating the loop because she never remembers anything but what she writes down as she goes through her last words that’s why she constantly writes in the diary to her future self to save Tsul. Now I would expect that this might mean that it is her younger 8yo self in the present that has to repeat that loop somehow she finds her memory warped and affected (hence her reason for not eating banana well or something) and finds her self somehow in the future pro apocalypse or if she uses the uploader before she dies and goes to her future self and starts the loop that way, either way I think she’s constantly canceling her self out, meeting another version, taking the risk to do so to always drop the diary. I think her father knows this that she will be shot and risk her life yet again hence he tells her to always stop futily knowing she’ll do it all the time. but it’s hard to connect the dots so I’ll wait for the next clues we receive. there’s a current SH being taken to her wedding and falling for Tsul till she dies and another that will start the loop again, if we will be forced to repeat it or maybe like TKEM this time we have entered a loop that will change and she will finally save Tsul it’s complicated
Hey my lovely @GB,
I cannot re-watch that part at the moment. Is the voice on the voiceover SH’s? I couldn’t place it yesterday.
After watching how she reacted when the Broker took it from her, I thought that it was a present. It looks old and something a girl should have. Also, we need to find a photograph of the letters to see if they are they same from her other notes.
That’s why I thought it was more logical the messages was not written from her. If we continue to add with paradox then we will have a huge paradox in our hands.
I enjoy it, but still the Office turned into CB minion, had regrets about his mother but also to what he did to her.
So, when he realizes when he was manipulated to kill an innocent person?
Because he was that determined and he shoot her at least twice. In the upcoming party at 27th August and later on on their wedding.
Still, if we find the mechanics of this, we will be okay. So far, something is missing.
For example Han Tae-San is a vague person. He is not talking at them, when he knows what is at stake. He also knows that the cryptic message he left to his brother wall would have the opposite effect.
Tae Sul is determined to find him at all costs. Later on, he will have as his top priority Kang Seo Hae.
GB,
I just saw the scene again, and really, really it was hard to see.
Just as Tae Sul’s car crashes into the ICB car.
There is a very short shot (a tenth of a second) where we see Seo Hae’s links falling on the ground. That means that the fact that Seo Hae was tied up has not been forgotten!
However, I don’t know by what miracle the shock unties these ties. One can notice however that they are not handcuffs, but a cloth headband.
The rest of your post is stunning in detail, it’s as if you saw the episode x4 and then read the subtitle file.
For example: when the police interrogate the villager who saw the underpants downloaded guy. I think this is a dialogue that would have been shortened under normal circumstances. It would be an acceptable dialogue in another drama, but not in this one, which is very dense, which has not a second to lose, because 20 episodes were contracted in 16. So if the script takes the trouble to go through the dialogue, it’s certainly to give the information you noticed: people don’t know if it was half an hour ago or an hour ago.
I continue to read your others comments.
@Cleo,
The diary is writed by Seo Hae, it’s like that I understood it when watching, and it’s why this scene gave me an immediate goosebump, dispite the bad background song. And it’s no doubt PSH voice in the voice over.
So, actual Seo Hae will write this AGAIN, and LATER in the young Seo Hae diary. The loop is looped. And as “future can’t be changed”, Seo Hae say the ICB member “I won’t die today”. Of course she can’t, she have to write the diary later. Time don’t allow her to die until all we know she will do will be done (so, write the diary, go to wedding).
BTS. I know a lot of adult women probably listen to this music. So I apologize for the following remark. For me, this is music for young girls. A boy band, the idols that schoolgirls like to have on their bedroom wall. I’m not saying this to be unpleasant, but because it seems to me to be something appropriate to the script. When Seo Hae finds the band’s poster, it’s something from her childhood, before the destruction of Seoul. It’s like a relic. It helps to understand that Seo Hae was a child before the disaster.
So there is a child Seo Hae somewhere. And probably the adult Seo Hae will meet her, or leave her a diary. I imagined that the diary might even contain information such as: this is not the first time I have written this diary, another Seo Hae before me did it, and wrote that it happened an infinite number of times.
For the mystery of people who do not grow old. Now I can see a little more clearly, but alas, for only one character: Tae Sul’s brother. My current hypothesis is that the Tae Sul we see in the drama is the one who pretended to be dead. He is not a traveler from the future. But he has information from the future. So he’s taking all those pictures. And once in the future, he will return to the past to deliver the suitcase to Tae Sul. The photos and especially the key. By doing so, it’s likely that he will sacrifice himself because he won’t survive a 10,000m fall. And it’s likely that he knows that too, that his life will end like this, in the sky.
@Cleo @WEnchanteur
@Cleo, you’re right in that the diary looks like something belonging to a girl. We see that she likes to add flowers and cutesy stickers/stuffed toys to her stuff (although stuff is so paradoxically military things like gun, smoke bomb, etc). That diary looks like it was hers since she was a younger girl.
@WEnchanteur is right, the voiceover is her voice.
Paradox – After I wrote and thought it through again … I’m thinking that this time travel is the endless loop kind of time travel…
Everything that we have seen now tells us that Seo Hee grew up in the post apocalyptic world and does not know how to eat bananas. We see her dad as the police officer partner, therefore we assume that if she’s already born, she’s a very young child in the present, and that the war takes place in the not too distant future.
Her diary is lost in the sea in this timeline, but we assume that she will find/buy the same diary, nice and new and write in it and somehow leave it for herself later, because that’s what she’s done before (always done?)
Good question about when did Officer Hyeong Gi realise that he was being used to kill Seo Hae… I think it was in the car when he looked out and saw that Seo Hae was fighting the ICB by herself, while TSul was trying to get the car to start. HG pointed out the girl to TSul, because he recognised her as his target. He speaks of her as the one he was meant to kill first. Seeing that she was with TSul on the day that his mother dies, he realises that she’s not the ‘robber-murderer’, and that ICB has used him.
Hyeong Gi is also in a time loop. He is speaking of the past… he has already lived through it all. He knows about the 27 Aug party, warns TSul not to go to the 2nd floor, tells SH that there’ll be a sniper outside. His 2020 self is going to be doing all the things to SH in the future again.
His future self who is with SH now, dies so the paradox disappears for him. I wonder how it will be for SH, if she’s just a little child!
@Beingwritten
We are on the same page about SH looping back in time with that diary of hers.
I can accept her not remembering things like her wedding, because it hasn’t happened yet to this future SH.
However, not knowing about peeling bananas, is something else. She knew how to do all the usual stuff in daily living, but she had never encountered a fresh banana before. Therefore I’m starting a new train of thought that she was not yet born in 2020, and the code to unlock her suitcase starting with 120930, might not refer to her birthdate at all.
As for her diary, she loses the one she carried from the future, but she (I think) will get the same diary in this timeline, will write in it, and will leave it to herself through her 2020 father-to-be, because she will recognise him, even if he does not recognise her.
Yup … I’m thinking that each time they loop back, although the essentials remain the same, there are enough changes being introduced to change the trajectory of some events, so that ultimately SH will be able to fulfill her mission (as stated in the diary)
Thinking about Tae San
I was thinking about Tae San whom you noted does not come out to talk to his brother, although he knows that TSul would be searching desperately for him. My guess is that, he does not want TSul to get any knowledge of the future from him. TSul will ask so many questions and TSan will have a hard time evading every one of them or being able to hide whatever TSul’s sharp eyes will observe.
He knows how meticulous and smart his brother is, that he’s a little OCD (as in how the paint can being differently placed, was noticeable only to him). Therefore he hides himself away.
The last time we saw Tae San, he was worried about TSul. He said that people from the future were looking for him and would keep coming. It looked like he may have wanted to get TSul away with him to hide him before something happened to him.
However, whether it was by design, out of coercion or accident, TSan seems to have been the one to get Uploaded to the future. He seems to have returned to 2020, but he’s no longer desperately trying to get his brother to know about the people he had warned him about.
However what he had warned his brother about before he disappeared ties in with what SH says. Everyone is out to get TSul (and kill him), the ICB, other unnamed adversaries and Sigma. We were conjecturing in one of the posts that Sigma might even be Tae San!
Assumptions: All we can tell about TSan, is that since the photo of the wedding was in Tae San’s camera, and we assume he took the photo, and the wedding is in the future, then we assume he survived and will be alive in the future that is to unfold.
“ The last time we saw Tae San, he was worried about TSul. He said that people from the future were looking for him and would keep coming. It looked like he may have wanted to get TSul away with him to hide him before something happened to him.”
I am going to assume that this TSan who appeared at the shareholders meeting rambling is one of the iterations from the future? And the present TSan is none the wiser about time travel and could very well be passed out drunk at home?
The other question I have is how (or if) they can decide when they loop back to. Or is that just random? Officer HyeongGi seemed oblivious to his arrival time? Or maybe he looped back to the day his mom died and was passed out and disoriented so he was confused? So he needed to make sure he made it back on time? If future SH knew from the diary that she had to warn TSul not to open the suitcase on 13Aug, then why wouldn’t she give herself some breathing space and loop back a week or even a month in advance? Why just come back the day before? 🤔. Or maybe they can only loop back to the actual date they depart from the future? Officer HG arrived 19Aug 2020 and SH arrived 12Aug 2020. So they can only loop back to the same date (excluding the year) they leave from the future?
I think Tae Han is in hiding because if he shows up, either his future self or his present self will be eliminated to keep the balance.
When SH said it’s yet her day to die, does it mean she will be leaving (die) on the actual day she was born? Again, to stay consistent with the balancing principle. We saw how future officer Hyeong Gi was eliminated, as if it is fated that no two same individual from different timeline can co-exist. So it brings back to the question, how about TH. His present and future self seems to be regularly co-existed. Or, did he skip death by going to the future and alter things? To keep himself alive? Or he was captured and eventually got away some time in the future post apocalypse, so he is coming back to try to change it?
30 sept… could it be it was her first trip to her past, @nrllee? Something related to origin of her family. It has to be an important date. Or…. 1982 to 2012, TS was around 30 y.o. Was it when his innovation finally successful? Or it was its beginning?🤔🤔🤔
Annyeong everyone. i am truly behind as i just finished this show and am just reading your comments now.
@WEchanteur, i laughed when you mentioned the river jump scene and the abominable song/atrocious voice regarding Sumi Jo’s rendition of “Fight for Love” coz as i listen to the OST, i felt the same way. omg. can someone else sing this song please?? coz it’s a really beautiful song. the thing is Sumi Jo is a coloratura soprano so her voice is opera-tic which is not bad, but i just felt like this song shouldn’t be done in that style. such a waste.
@packmule3, thanks for explaining the connection between capsaicin and receptor cells – why eating spicy ramen leads to pooping fire hahaha. you guys, i have tried eating those x2 spicy ramen and survived. i don’t remember the pooping fire part, but i’m sure it happened hahaha. i’ve forgotten now. it’s been so long. haha. maybe drinking milk after helped with the side effects???
anyhoo, thanks everyone for all your analysis and funny commentaries. 3 months later… 🙂 After finishing DAYS, i resumed this show and loved it.
Hi @HK_Lady LOL the pooping fire. I don’t think I eat food so spicy that, THAT happens.
Sisyphus was great fun to comment on together. You’ll continue to enjoy yourself, I’m sure. 😉
PS
i know the song “fight for love” is an ARIA and it’s supposed to be opera-tic. i love the idea of an aria, but when i hear this song, i just have to laugh. maybe i need to hear more opera music to appreciate Sumi Jo’s rendition.
@GB, do you like spicy food? pooping fire is comic. only happens in comics. but the BURN. i have felt, for sure 🤣
I can that Sisyphus thread had so much comment. obviously it was fun. i feel like it’s gonna take me forever to read through everything haha. just like TKEM. haha
@packmule3, i was laughing at @nrllee’s side comments too. i also agree with you that even though taesul is not the swoony male hero – i am sold haha. i became a fan of him coz of this show and will watch his other shows now. i like his character, even though he’s not a BOD bf candidate haha