The thread is now open for…resolutions and conclusions.
I also want this drama to end strong. And by “strong”, I’m not referring to the fight scenes, but the romance department. I want Taesul to look hot and sexy, not cute and cheeky.
No open-endings, please!
After all the bloopers and Easter bananas, red herrings, contrived plot twists, time loops, non sequiturs, and nonsense (e.g., Taesul gloated that the bunker he designed had exit doors that would always open and close under Seohae’s control, and then he sealed the glass door on Seohae by busting a control panel. What the heck?!) I want to be rewarded for sticking with this drama, with a DEFINITIVE happy ending for our couple.
And if we’re going to have a happy ending, here’s my laundry list: I want Jaesun alive and dating Bingbing (lol), Hyunki to forgive himself and turn himself in, Taesan reconciled with Taesul, Eddie Kim married to another woman, Mr. Park reunited with his family, SeoJin getting a real degree in psychology, and Seohae’s family alive and well.
Let’s enjoy the show!
Thanks @pkml3. That’s my laundry list too!! Actually I kind of like TSul being cheeky rather than sexy. Instead, let’s have SH surprising him with some woman moves LOL. The Woman-child should grow a bit!!
I watched the actor’s interview for Swoony (?) and IIRC, he said that he wanted to be viewed as sexy not cute. hahaha. So I’ll allow him that opportunity to be “sex-uh.”
Whenever he leans in as if he’s about to kiss her, I’ve come to expect an interruption or a misdirection. lol.
LOL @pkml3… I think I only associate CSW as the prosecutor with a wooden expression in Stranger and don’t put him together with ‘sexy’.
I made a mistake in the other post, I meant I watched Ep 15 with subs.
An episode on pre-destination according to plan?
So we get confirmation that Sigma lied and that the war didn’t just happen because it was going to happen. It was planned.
Unless TSul’s idea of everything now going according to his plan means that Sigma is supposed to think that everything is actually going according to Sigma’s plan, I can’t say Tsul is doing too well. Of course we have all of Ep 16 to turn the tables.
One of our hopes in the laundry list will not materialise. I did fear it would be too good to be true that every one of them could work out.
However we see that more changes are taking place that will upset the way things always unfolded, and I’m pleased to see that my prediction about forgiving Jung Hyeon Gi is starting to pay off. I believe we will see him again in Ep 16.
Fatalism is taken a step too far by Hwang. I can’t understand how he needs to follow the reports on what happens to the letter, without once trying to change outcomes. I wonder whether he’ll turn up next Ep, going crazy because he won’t know what to do next since there’s no report to follow.
Show has nicely given us the full circle explanation of how Seo Hae manages to get onto the uploader. In the endless loops, it was pre-determined, to suit both her plans and Sigma’s. Even where she should end up on the ‘last day’ was fixed from the start.
We even get to know why everyone was such a bad shot! (Except for Jung Hyun Gi… he really had not excuse to have missed SH so many times!)
Now if only show would explain or confirm our guesses on why SH on top of the train was invisible to the ICB and vice versa, or why SH and TSul could have seen each other at the train station but TSul disappeared. And why although planes are in so many of Sigma’s drawings, it’s trains that turn up often in this show. Perhaps with trains, there’s the concept of speeding through time, while still being grounded?
The show has done a good job bringing closure to many questions.
Sun has played a role in helping SH, Jung has made a turn for the better, and it remains to be seen how Eddie fits into the final picture.
Interesting that the motivation of CB chief Hwang was also to save his family so Sigma used that to manipulate him, too.
SH and TSul have already had several chances to kill Sigma, but hesitated each time. They’ve acted according to Sigma’s plan based on their desire to save their loved ones. I am hoping for a happy ending but wonder if one or both will have to make a sacrifice to save the world.
So that explained why ICB is so incompetent! As @packmule3 said these are attacks effectively push Tae Sul to build the uploader.
I saw a glimpse of the wedding scene in the preview so hopefully they can explain that in ep 16.
@GB I see there are two groups of people in the show. One is thinking nothing can be changed so surrender to “fate”. The other group shares or is influenced by Seo Hae’s thinking. Hwang’s behaviour is very consistent the first group, follow the report even if it means his death thinking it is all pre-destined. May be that’s why he was chosen to work for ICB. He would fit the recruitment criteria? 🙂 We see Mr Park was in the first group and have moved to Seo Hae’s camp. We didn’t see Hwang in the future pool side party back in ep 13 and together with that report we knew he was dead in the last life cycle. Glad to see another change from the future because Hyeong Gi’s better decision this time.
I am still waiting to see why Tae Sul asked for a sniper rifle from Mr Park.
I also hope for a happy ending! I know Tae Sul always come back for Seo Hae, and always said to her I will find you. That gives me some hope that no matter whenever wherever Seo Hae is, Tae Sul will find her.
Episode 16, mostly watched without subs until the end. Wow, talk about twists … this show gives quite a few whoppers. So it’s good and the solution was both ingenious and obvious. The question is, is it possible or just a paradox too many?
It’s going to take a while to wrap my head around it and to unpack what that was. But it was good. LOL.
Okay I was very excited about Episode 16, until 15 minutes till the end.
Then I got kinda WTH…
I will write my thoughts tomorrow…
Same here @Cleo! I felt a bit trolled. 😂
I need to rewatch these last 2 eps with a keener eye.
The best redemption story for me is Mr. Park’s.
@Janey,
They should end it before the last plot twist.
Because now, It means that we are being pranked…
You are right about Mr. Park!
What happened to Mr. Park?
Did he marry Bingbing?
Or was Bingbing his long-awaited daughter?
Kalispera @packmule3!
You got it, (2), right!
I am still in a WTH mode…
lol. When I saw that he was waiting for his family, it dawned on me that Bingbing’s curiosity about the money he was sending to an anonymous individual was not just about an employee being nosey about company finances, but she was somehow the recipient of the missing funds.
I was hoping she wasn’t the wife as a teenager, though. 🙂
GB said it was a happy ending. Was she being ironic? haha.
I’ll watch the two episodes tonight.
I have to write it down, before my brain explodes…
My analysis will be written on the morning
Episode 16 is epic…Until, the last 15 minutes.
I would prefer it, if they ended it in the goodbye scene, but no…
They wanted to mess with us.
To show us that a sinner will always be around. Someone else would become Sisyphus…
The scene in the airplane is dreamlike. Check the lights.
This means it doesn’t / cannot happen in reality. I will call it just a brain function.
Argh, I am so frustrated atm…
Tomorrow more ..
@Packmule3,
It is happy and bitter at the same time.
I will be waiting for your thoughts…
Kalinixta for now!
And not just that last 15 min twist – the last, last part of the epilogue is the lamest trolling. Not sure what it’s trying to convey there with Sigma (painter) having notes on the whole uploader conspiracy and then acting/looking like TaeSul. Sorry but he will not be able to do genius. SMH…
🙂 You made me look at the “last, last part of the epilogue,” Janey and I had to laugh.
To me, Sigma was fanboying Taesul!!
There was no way he could do the time loop again (right? the uploader wasn’t built, right?) So even if he had all the notes (where did that journal come from? is that his version of Seohae’s diary?), he might as well just copycat Taesul.
🙂
@PM3 – he looked sinister while reading that journal and looking at the mirror so I was not sure if it meant something more. I got paranoid with the last 15 mins plot twist. He was always obsessed with TSul so I guess the writers wanted to show that has not changed.
I’ll take the fanboying explanation! 😂
I laughed because TS never liked that pic. He was always complaining that he didn’t look so good bec it was a lab shot or something.
But there was Seo Gilbok trying to copy him, complete with the Navy sweatshirt and the black-rimmed glasses. 🤣 Who was he kidding?
Perhaps he hasn’t changed in his obsession. But without any “future” that he could manipulate, he was just a minor-league fanboy.
Loopey
Heheheheh this show. In the end I was thinking that everyone was Sisyphus, forced to repeat the same events forever. For as long as Tae Sul (and / or Seo Hae) refused to do the one thing that would end the looping, they were destined to forever loop in favour of Sigma. ICB existed for the sake of Sigma (I couldn’t believe it!) according to what Hwang said. They had to keep the reports just the same for every loop and for the next Sigma. They existed to perpetuate the loop for all their various personal reasons.
As long as SH kept coming back to the past, and having TSul fall in love with her, and as long as she refused to kill TS and kept him from being killed, the Uploader would get built. That’s the irony. SH failed to see that by coming to 2020, and even by changing everything else, but by not letting TSul die, she too was perpetuating the loop. If there wasn’t Sigma, there’d have been someone else (in this case Eddy!) who’d use her to force TSul to code the Uploader.
So that explains why future Sigma/Gil Bok in the arty-farty getup was willing to let her go back. He needed her to continue the loop. I always found it funny that he pretended to forget her name, and even Eddy’s name. SH, especially, was absolutely necessary for Sigma’s loop to succeed.
Gil Bok
After being found and helped by SH’s dad, and seeing a different look in his eyes, Gil Bok didn’t only paint destruction but sketched nice portraits too. However his childhood of abuse and the rejection by TSul still remained with him. In this new 2020, he does not seem to have stalked TSul by working as a cleaner though. And yes, as @pkml3 says, he remained fascinated with TSul and was such a fan boy.
Interesting point about Gil Bok’s home. The bust is still there and it has the bullet hole in it. Although this Gil Bok should not have become Sigma, he has all the names of the people in his diary. So the loop we watched and the present time has merged?
I did think more than once that TS should have taken a leaf from SH, and written a journal to give himself a heads-up. Even Gil Bok has notes. However, I guess TS was the one person who never actually traveled far enough back into his own time.
Who’s to know how matters might have turned out, if child TSul and made a friend out of traumatised Won Ju and looked at him a different way. There might have been a still more different Won Ju/Gil Bok and a different 2020. Then also those paintings with eye gouged out would probably never have existed.
Oh, and I still like the ending. We can understand it in more than one way.
Re. Sigma/Gilbok’s artsy-fartsy getup
He reminded me of Hugh Hefner, the “Playboy” magazine founder. HH wore a decadent velvet robe. And he’d host parties, too, like that swimming pool party SeoHae and her father stumbled upon. But HH was into women. With Sigma, I’m not sure. 🙂
I was confused about the plane scene, but I think @Cleo is right, it was a dream, just an imagined scene as I can’t see how it would make sense otherwise. The last scene with Sigma was weird…I would’ve been satisfied with it just ending after the church scene and showing everyone happy and oblivious about the war.
I felt a bit sorry for Sigma and was glad that he was shown some kindness and that small act was enough to change his future actions.
Sisyphus was a wild ride and it was fun reading the discussions here. Now I have to figure out what to watch next…
Kalimera everyone from my part of the world…
I am frustrated at the moment, but it will pass since I am going to watch “Strong Woman Do Bong Soon” later on…
Let me explain more about what happened in the Chapel. Even in that scene they are messing with us…
Okay the war was averted, the world was saved and we are on the goodbye kiss. For me, it would be nicer if they ended it there.
But nope, they wanted to troll us a bit.
So, they brought Eddy, as the new sinner. He had to come to the time loop’s rescue. (Sic)
But they messed the scene up on purpose, so make us think that the loop continues to exist in another form.
TSul is holding the gun in his right hand in his right temple.
We hear the gunshot only.
Then we are watching that the Future indeed has changed, so the illegals tourists are all disappearing one by one and TSan wakes up.
Then we go back to the Chapel and were watching a glitching crying Seo Hae, who is talking to the dying / dead TSul who has NO wound in his right temple. Instead the blood is on his left side. (Let’s remember that for later on).
All those scenes are happening simultaneously.
The Airplane Scene.
What we are actually seeing in the plane is :
TSul’s last brain sequence / function.
It is known that the brain shuts down last. For some minutes it has activity until it stops.
So, TSul was dying and his brain was still working. He heard what Seo Hae was saying to him.
So, his brain built a new dreamlike sequence. His last dying wish / dream: TSul and Seo Hae are heading to Hawaii together.
Hence we are watching the replica of Episode’s 1 plane crash, but with differences.
Han Tae Sul is wearing the same clothes as he was wearing in Episode 1. But now he is not near the window in that one VIP seat, we see two seats and Seo Hae is talking to him. He had asked for water to take his medication, but now that the SH is with him he is dropping them down. In Episode 1 he took them and he saw his Hyung. He was hallucinating…
And that is all we got. They were a doomed couple and couldn’t be together outside the loop. I would be okay with that.
Now that the Future had changed, Seo Hae could not go back. She was not going to be the same person as before. Also, there won’t be any grave to find her diary.
Except, if her Father took her to the bunker and TSUL has left her a chronicle of the Sigma Loop.
And that’s what I have to say about the Chapel scene.
Let’s revisit now the actual (crime) scene.
TSul had no wound in his right temple, so what happened?
My guess is that Eddy shoot first by mistake and TSul didn’t kill himself. Hence, the blood on the left side of his face in the carpet.
Lastly, about Sigma’s scene.
The Forbes magazine’s cover IS NOT the same as before. When SH had her birthday in the future , she came across the magazine and in that one TSul is wearing a suit. She didn’t pay attention because she found a BTS article.
In the last scene, in the magazine TSul is wearing a hoodie and glasses.
They are totally messing with us again…
Some Notes on the Airplane Ending
When Tae Sul ended himself in the last loop, time was more or less reset but with the memories and happenings merged in a time paradox.
We see TSul in the plane, but in a different seat from where he’d been in Ep 1, with several passengers around him. The difficult passenger is about the same but TSul does not interfere.
Like in Episode 1, he suffers from delusions and has medication. His delusions were of people he regretted being separated from. When he was not at rights with his brother, he kept seeing Tae San. In the new 2020, we understand from Gil Bok’s notes (and we saw TSan wake up), that Tae San is alive. However in TSul’s new memories, the one TSul regrets now, is Seo Hae as he knew her.
It seems he must have asked for water for his medication. Then he opens his eyes to find Seo Hae beside him, but this is the Seo Hae of his memories, and the one who was innocent and didn’t know wines or what naengchae was. The air stewardess brings him his water, but TSul looks at his meds and then at SH and decides.
Seeing her, even if she’s not really there, is such a joy and comfort to him that he chooses to avoid his medication and to live in his delusions.
In his chosen ‘reality’ we see that there is always a light on Seo Hae and finally a beautiful light from the cockpit cast on SH, as if she’s an angel, and the seats all around TSul are now empty. To him there’s no one else in the world but her.
Maybe it’s better that he continues his delusions without meds than has meds that allow him to be gaslighted. In any case he chooses to remain mentally ‘unwell’ than to be ‘sane’ and to face a reality without SH.
Show brings us to a white out to the Title in Korean and “The Myth”. A very apt name for how TSul chooses to live: in the myth of having SH near.
@Cleo – I just checked. there are 2 Forbes magazine covers of TSul!!! The one on the plane in ep1, he was in a hoodie and eye glasses which is the same cover as what Sigma was copying in ep16 ending. The one with BTS article, he was wearing a suit and no glasses in ep4. Maybe taken in another time loop since TSul hated that cover with hoodie. 😮
@Janey,
Thank you! I remember the second version!
As I have said before I was watching L.U.C.A back then and I wasn’t that active over here.
Still, I have to rewatch it again to see all the little “presents” here and there!
@Cleo
That’s a nice idea also that TSul was dying and the airplane scene was him living his dying wish and then dying (flying into the bright light!). However because of the way show bothered to light SH, I felt it was more the case that she’s the imagined figment of his mind. Instead of only being a couple inside a loop, Tsul could only be with her in his mind.
Yes, the future has changed. There will no longer be a need for a diary or for SH to have a grave in 2035. SH of 2020 will grow up in a world where there is no nuclear explosion and she may never get to know TSul personally. Her father may have recollections of the merged loops and know what TSul and the adult SH had done.
It’s possible that Eddy shot TSul instead of TSul shooting himself, but the important thing is that whether TSul entered a coma or died, that he never made the Uploader. That was the one thing that got the loop going. Once there was no more time travel, all versions of future selves disappeared in 2020.
Good catch on the Forbes cover… I too was puzzled about why it looked different. Yes there was more than one photo, and now I’m wondering if there were 3 different photos because we saw that cover at least 3 times. I have the same take on that cover as for the other similarities and differences. The time paradox still had to happen, so there were changes and some knowledge and memories of the previous loops merged with the present loop. So the Forbes cover was different and Gil Bok’s bust still had the bullet hole.
There are too many articles to read and respond to, I am overwhelmed!!!
I have seen the last two episodes.
Episode 15: as I expected, there was a fast twist spiral. But instead of being in the last episode, it was at the end of episode 15. And it wasn’t the hero but the villain telling it. During this scene, a lot of uncertainties, strangeness, potential plot-holes are settled, explained.
Episode 16: I much prefer this ending to a happy ending. It’s much more moving: The scene where Tae Sul and Seo Hae cry together, where Tae Sul wants to start the timeloop again because they failed once more.
The story could end after Tae Sul’s death and Seo Hae’s disappearance, it makes sense. Yet there are a couple of scenes after that that are cryptic. These scenes are good emotional feedback to the previous shock. It bitterly prolongs the emotion felt by the viewer.
Do these scenes have a meaning?
Tae Sul is on the plane with Seo Hae. But he has changed his place from this scene at the beginning. The plane will not crash this time, we can assume.
The changes in the time frame caused by the travelers from the future seem to have been erased from the beginning to the end. So we have to imagine that in 2001, time resumes its course in the way it should have happened without the existence of time travel, and people from the future. A big cascade of butterfly effects.
As a result of these changes, Tae Sul certainly hasn’t lost his brother. But what is he? Why is Seo Hae there? It looks like a hallucination of Tae Sul, as he had with his brother. Why does he see her? Is she a last memory, a time ghost, brought to disappear?
Or are Tae Sul and Seo Hae timeghosts in this scene? In this case, it is an earlier scene before the end? In the scene at the beginning of the drama, those two seats were empty. Also, a timeghost could sit there, invisible to the outside eyes.
@GB,
The reason I believe this theory than him having hallucinations is because of Sigma’s last scene.
TSul was shot in the head.
How did he go back to the plane? I mean in time.
If he didn’t die back in the Chapel, but he is in a coma then he is dreaming of her in his comatose state. And that makes sense.
What doesn’t make sense at all is him to be alive and having hallucinations of her.
How did he create Seo Hae in the first place, if all those happened in his mind?
Was he a lunatic? No, I don’t think so…
@Cleo
What do you mean ‘because of Sigma’s last scene?’
It’s because he is dead in the time loop that all of the loops disappear and time resets to the single time line as it should be. However, this single time line now holds the merged realities of the many loops.
So with the reset, we are brought back to the time just before TSul became aware that there really was time travel, ie to when he was in the plane, and before the suitcase first hit.
@Cleopatra, @GB,
I gladly take both of your explanations.
The dream before dying, or the illusion of a Seo Hae.
But if time has been reset, why does Tae Sul seem to know her?
Does he remember her when in theory he has never met her?
Are there hidden and persistent repercussions of these temporal concepts, even able to go beyond the limit of the downloader, which explains Sigma’s drawings as well?
For the scene itself, even without explanation, I’ll take it!!!
I had goosebumps and a shiver down my spine, when the interior of the plane flips to white and the end call sign “sisyphus” appears on the screen, with the sound scrambled. It’s the kind of intense, nostalgic, bitter, genuinely moving emotion that I love in sad endings. And making that I prefer sad endings. What it makes you feel is much deeper, with or without explanation.
Then there’s the scene with Sigma, but I would have preferred it to be after the end credits (Or put that scene before the plane scene, but I don’t know how well that connects).
@GB,
What I meant is that last scene where Sigma had the diary and he was watching the names of the people involved in the time loop.
That shows that the time loop did happen and the Sigma had intel about the whole time loop thingy.
I agree with @WEnchanteur about what he said about the time reset.
If time has been reset then, TSUl shouldn’t know Tae Sul at all.
If he didn’t know her at all, but he was dreaming about her that makes him a mad man.
That’s why I don’t go for that explanation. Sigma had information for all of them.
Why? Because they are giving us The Myth explanation.
Once upon a time, a time loop was repeating itself time over time. But in the end, Han Tae Sul and Seo Hae won Sigma and they managed to prevent everything while they sacrificed themselves.
P.S. @WEnchanteur, I think I found you on MyDramaList.com!
DAMN-IT!!!
I think I just figured out the ending, it’s even more moving.
And that explains the final scene with Sigma.
Sigma has healed to some extent, he doesn’t want to destroy the world anymore. And he has all these notes with him. Tae San probably has the plans with him (the ones that were supposed to be in the safe). One possibility, the uploader will be built, but this time, not for a loop leading to disaster.
And the Seo Hae of this future is sent to the past, which explains the plane scene in another way. Seo Hae is really there with Tae Sul. That’s why he can lean over and rest his head on her shoulder.
All this may be a happy ending, but with the emotion of a sad ending, well both at the same time.
GOOSEBUMPS!!!
@WEnchanteur,
I like your theory, although I cannot embrace it, explain to me the following:
Why does Seo Hae returns to the past this time? For what reason?
The disaster didn’t happen, she doesn’t have any recollection of Tae Sul.
Her life has changed. Why does she has to go back?
We don’t have the WHY here.
@Cleopatra, you-re welcome! I shouldnt be hard to find, same picture and same link to my blog. Send me friend request please. 😉
MDL is place for more “feeling” or crazy fun comments and here more analys ones. (can be fun too, because comedy is all).
I don’t think there’s a time reset so the ending of TSul and SH on the plane was a dying memory. It was a good ending and touching one. The scenario if they win against Sigma and the present continues without the war, there’s no way for them to really be together as future SH will disappear. So they were ready to say goodbye and all.
Eddy shooting SH does not matter anymore. Disappearing and dying are the same outcome for SH. It was not purely regret that TSul keeps going through the loop but because he wants to be with her. That’s the only way they can be together is through the loop. It was selfish of TSul to keep bringing SH back over and over and she is obviously spent and tired of it all. So that’s the ultimate sacrifice he did for SH so that she does “survive alone in the world” and be unhappy in the future.
I looked closer on the head wound and there’s blood on the right temple of TSul but the wound is hidden by hair. The exit wound on the left will be the outlet of more blood.
Thank you @Janey,
For looking closer the Chapel Scene. I couldn’t rewatch the episode again last night.
What saddens me the most is that because of the last 15 minutes, we didn’t get to say how brilliant TSul’s plan was all along. The Writer-nims did a stellar job.
I am so glad that Jae Sun wasn’t killed by Hyeon-Gi. I was so shocked in the beginning, but when I saw what really happened I was relieved!
All the sub-stories closed in a very touching way.
Even Hyeon-Gi decided something else for himself and I am glad for him too.
The only man that has regrets is ICB’s Hwang Hyun-Seung.
Still, that was an emotional rollercoster.
Additional information about the “New timeloop” ending.
The ending scene with Sigma must have a purpose and this is it.
Sigma has healed partially. And at the end, he puts on the glasses to look like Tae Sul. Which suggests that he will develop the uploader. He wants to be the new Tae Sul.
As in the first episode, someone from the future appears in the past during the plane scene. In the past, Tae San’s brother, in disastrous conditions. And here, Seo Hae. All this seems to me logical concerning the narrative links and the usefulness of the scenes. With, of course, the surprise effect. The plane scene is told before the Sigma scene. Already because the emotional link is stronger with the previous scene. This is incomprehensible at the time. The scene of Sigma arrives then to provide the explanation of what could have happened.
Since there is a new, completely unknown timeloop (we see nothing of it), it is difficult to tell the mental state of Tae Sul at this moment, and why he seems to already know Seo Hae before she appears. A previous merge effect, or a previous appearance of Seo Hae is possible, or a previous appearance in timeghost. Why does Seo Hae play the game? Since there was a new timeloop, she also got information somehow, making her return for Tae Sul. She comes from a future that was not devastated by war, and she comes back for him only this time, not to prevent a war.
Put quickly: she comes back for love, not war.
Additional additional informations (If I was thinking more before posting, I shouldn’t have to do this, but Hey!!!).
Also, Tae Sul throws his pills on the ground. Not because he prefers to live with the illusion of having Seo Hae by his side (one supposes that he uses these pills to cancel his hallucination, as he did with his brother in the previous timeloop). He throws away the pills because Seo Hae is finally there with him, in real life, and not as a hallucination.
I am thinking one way to interpret the ending is that the copy of Tae Sul (the version that time travelled to the past) is dead, but the present Tae Sul is still alive. It is like the copy of Sigma (the version that time travelled to the past) is dead, but the present Sigma is still alive.
As Sigma is healed somewhat, history around the present Tae Sul would be rewritten.
Seo Hae said she would find him. So we can take it on face value that the future Seo Hae managed to find him somehow. (open to our imagination as to how).
I don’t remember Tae San from Tae Sul’s memories can physically interact with Tae Sul. Whereas Tae Sul could lean on Seo Hae and held hand with her. I would imagine It would be hard to do that with imagination or illusion? So, I am more leaning on the interpretation that Seo Hae is real. Also to make myself feel better.
If you recall, ICB agent shot Tae Sul in ep 2 and Tae Sul managed to wake up in his house. I don’t know if it has any link as to how Tae Sul managed to wake up from another gun shot in ep 16.
Emotionally rollercoaster indeed. At the beginning, it was so light hearted with all the usual bickering and sweetness. We even got to see Jae Sun come back alive. I was all hopeful for a fun ending. I wasn’t expecting to go through all this sad ending again.
The saddest thing is that Tae Sul can’t seem to get out of the cycle unless he killed himself. His “sin” almost is having bad friends. He might be self-indulged and self-centred, but we can see he has changed! He reconciled with his brother. He has asked Seo Hae’s dad to take care of the present Gilbok. In my view, it’s Eddie who is another twisted person. He wants something in return from Tae Sul. He wants to get rich by putting up with Tae Sul. True friend would not seek benefit from another friend. I know he complained about Tae Sul not remembering his birthday. Look, if that friend is not nice to you, move on to find a new friend! Why stick around and complain?
Logically Seo Hae disappearing makes sense. It was very heart-breaking to watch when Tae Sul and Seo Hae saying goodbye. As there is no uploader, she would have disappeared like other time travellers. Tae Sul may live but would be very miserably. So plot wise, he “kind of” have to die. The plot twist at the end is how the show tries to give us a happy ending. As my view above, there is enough space for me to interpret they get to go to Hawaii after they saved the world.
It’s so interesting to read all the explanations here. I’m not good at coming up with those myself so am relying on this blog to help. 🙂
@Cleopatra Good observation about the location of the gunshot wound on TSul. If Eddie did shoot him, that could be why he was kneeling in repentance. Either that or he was kneeling in defeat that TSul was dead and couldn’t finish the uploader.
I was wondering about TSan when he woke up in the room with all the TV screens…I thought Sigma had built that room; if so, how can it exist if he wasn’t around to create it?
Did Sigma have a fallback plan in case he failed? Could he have manipulated Eddie and left his present self the notebook? It seemed like SGB was not psychopathic anymore but he still had hang ups and a weird obsession with TSul. Seems the show wanted to leave us with an open-ended impression and generate discussion that SGB could either still end up as Sigma or someone similar, or that he’s really just a harmless obsessive fanboy plus adding a bit of sly humor as @packmule3 noted…SGB fanboying over the geeky-looking photo that TSul himself hated.
Could it be possible that the notebook actually belonged to TSul or someone else and somehow fell into the hands of SGB? Or it could be, as mentioned in this blog, that Sigma was clairvoyant and he wrote all that stuff down because of some foreknowledge, or it could have been the merging of timelines as mentioned by @GB and that’s why he had those thoughts and wrote down those notes.
Hi everyone.. I just finished the last episode and running here to find all of your theories and comments. Thank you all for the explanations and the theories.. I am happy reading them all.
I know that I shouldn’t have expected a “happy ending” for this kind of drama. But I lose my defense, and I expected the happy ending. Despite all questions that still hanging in my mind, I think I kinda same with @Janey for the ending scene..
It’s touching because we all know that they couldn’t be together.
What Seo Hae said when she’s dying.. she told TSul to stop because if not, they have to repeat them all over again, really hit me. Tsul know that he’s the one that selfish, he’s the one that wanna be with his love, again and again even for a short period of time. It was his punishment afterall.. He knows how to stop but he didn’t want to. But when I thought that he’s finally ready to end it there, he told SeoHae to come and find him again.
And here, as the audience, we are freely to interpret the after ending. Whether TSul just said his final final goodbye and told Seo Hae to find him in “another universe” or “after reincarnation”, or maybe he’s not really dead there and later he would still make the uploader somehow, to make SeoHae find him again.. and repeating the punishment all over again with another “scheme” of Sigma..
P.s: same with @Cleopatra, I’m glad that JaeSun is still alive.. I was so sad when Sun fainted 😓 hope to see this actor more in another project/drama..
oh and I also like the Mr Park scene with his daughter..
@Cleopatra
That notebook is SHs dads. Kind of makes you wonder if a new loop is going to start. Either an obsessed sigma or a distraught older brother.
Why it Looks like a Reset with a Time Paradox
Why I feel that the airplane scene shows a reset of the time, including time paradox of the merging of time loop realities. As we noted in past episodes, in all the times when scenes had props that changed. Some of us decided that it was the show’s way of telling us that the realities of other time loops had merged as a result of a time paradox.
Well, I choose to stick to that decision.
We see in the airplane that the there are some differences:
1) where Tae Sul sat
2) what the complaining passenger said
3) Tae Sul did not video record the passenger or get up to interfere.
4) the glass of water was handed to him instead of being placed in the cup holder
5) he sees Seo Hae instead of Tae San
We also see that the passengers were about the same and that TSul was wearing the same hoodie as in Episode 1. This means that we have reset to the same day and same flight. However, the fact that there are differences means that we are in a merged new reality or seeing the reality with a time paradox.
In a merged reality, Tae Sul will ‘remember’ Seo Hae and the emotions he had regarding her.
@WEnchanteur, I’m sure we’re happy to take your perspective of the ending and to celebrate SH returning to TSul in the plane.
However when we first see TSul in the plane, there is no one beside him. He is just opening his eyes, after having called for water.
SH was exactly like the imaginary Tae San, ie, she talked to TSul as if she’d been there all along and was continuing a conversation. TSul was stunned to see her but she continued without explanation as to why she was sitting beside him. Both SH and TSan complained and asked why TSul was not responding to them. That’s why she seems to me to be a figment of TSul’s imagination. He put similar words in the mouths of his hallucinations.
TSan kept mostly silent except for 2 words spoken softly. He knew better than to respond loudly, because he would have appeared to be speaking to himself. He should normally have asked SH many questions and shown off his knowledge of wines, if SH was really beside him.
Cinematically with the lighting and the business class seats suddenly empty, show has indicated that what we are seeing isn’t true, but likely what Tae Sul would be happy to believe.
Hey @Pale,
I think that you are right, Dong Gi was writing down some stuff on a notebook, when he went to Hwang Hyun-Seung’s daughter’s house.
Still, if that happened, then Gil Bok stole that notebook from him?
I don’t want to think about it, because that makes things even worse.
If we accept that possibility, then the loop cannot break at all.
That means they will fight and die over and over again.
I prefer to think that TSul sacrificed himself to end the Sisyphian loop, than to think that they continue to repeat this cycle endlessly.
I re watched the plane scene. The left hand side of the door is all bright. Unlike episode 1 where there is just the cockpit.
Another interpretation like what you said @moonstar512, they are heading to another universe, another time and space, somewhere bright.
Like @Janey, @GB, @WeEnchanteur @ Cleo theories, it could be illusion (supported by not taking pills). It could be last memories (supported by how they can remember each other without history being rewritten), it could be Taesul alive and Seo Hae found him again (support by how they can interact)
As a viewer, I feel the show gifts us the last scene of Tae Sul and Seo – that they are together. Tae Sul is happily falling asleep on Seo Hae, holding hands and heading to a bright place.
P.S. I like how Tae Sul leans on her. Very consistent to their relationship, not the usual guy protects girl type. I think the best part of the show is to watch their non cliché relationship grows and how CSW and PSH convey the very raw emotions T_T, It is always very moving to watch.
@GB, just read your comment. I rewatched and yes the seat was empty next to Tae Sul, but the only thing I am not 100% is how Tae Sul managed to interact with Seo Hae?
@Viva, I’d think in the same way we interact by ourselves, by imagining it. Show of course needs to show us what’s in TSuls thoughts, and therefore we ‘see’ him leaning on SH’s shoulder. But he could just have been leaning against the next seat and imagining it to be SH, or in his case, hallucinating it to be SH.
@Cleo, if that notebook belongs to Gang Dong Gi, then it was in the pocket of the jacket that was given to Gil Bok. That’s how come he takes it from his jacket pocket and puts it back there as well.
@Everyone…
You know that scene where Gil Bok closes the notebook and wags it at TSul’s portrait with that look on his face? What does that expression mean? Here is the screenshot.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1h_XF53uZK5bPWLb0-EZa83GxpRDNHxVg/view?usp=sharing
What’s with that look… does it say:
1) Here’s looking at you kid.
2) Don’t look at me like that!
3) What have you been up to?
4) Naughty, naughty!
5) Guess what I have here!
I’ve been trying to figure it out.
@GB,
That’s why I said before that we are being pranked. The Writer-nims tease us big time…
You are right that SH’s dad gave him his jacket. I thought he took his things before he gave the jacket away, but that means what he actually took was his wallet and handcuffs.
My theory for that look, after looking that notebook is… another start of the Sisyphian Loop.
The painter wants Tae Sul to cry blood…
So, he will try to create the equation with other parameters this time.
In the end, the loop doesn’t break and it continues for ever like a punishment from the Gods…*Shudders*
I don’t like this even as a theory…
@GB, you have here a perfect example of a successful download on a plane in mid-air. And honestly, a lemon yellow sweater like hers can only exist in the future. 🙂
I forgot to mention the passengers who disappear at the end of the scene.
This scene is there to break our heart a second time, but also, everyone can take the end as they want, with a merge of emotions of the different possible ends. It’s quite an inner turmoil!
I just listened to the BGM from the Various Artists disc, and it’s horribly disappointing. There’s tons of music that wasn’t included, especially several from the first half of the drama. I’ll have to listen to more to get the lay of the land, and rewatch the drama.
If Tae Sul is on this plane, it is because he is on his way to his company meeting. But if his company succeeded, it’s because Sigma had invested in it. So, strong chances of a new timeloop. Otherwise, Tae Sul would certainly be in his cabin at this hour, or fishing at the beach with his brother.
I interpreted Tae Sul is Sisyphus. He cheated death so he needed to go through the endless cycles. He wanted to cheat death so he can be with Seo Hae. He has to accept that he can’t cheat Seo Hae’s death to be with her. It breaks my heart to hear all those points in time he mentioned that he thought they can go back to: to kill GilBok at his studio, to stay in the bunker, to back to when they haven’t met. None of them would work because if there is no uploader, Seo Heo will disappear. It is fruitless! Ultimately, he realised he didn’t want Seo Hae to go through the nightmare again. He couldn’t have the world ended again. He finally made a better choice and accepted his and Seo Hae’s deaths were final.
Bong Seon said “Do you really want to beat Sigma…even if you will die?” I think that is what it means.
Eddie’s appearance just means that Seo Hae will always die, even Sigma didn’t do it. Because you just can’t cheat death.
One way to look at the ending is to go back to Seo Hae’s initial mission. She managed to save the world, and Tae Sul might have lived. There is no longer a future Seo Hae. Only Seo Hae in Tae Sul’s memories. That’s what keeps him going.
Another way is look at Sisyphus. Tae Sul accepts his and Seo Hae deaths as final. Seo Hae as promised, found Tae Sul somewhere in time and space, heading to a brighter place together. She would find a way, as she doesn’t give up trying.
Now I will go to the corner and T_T.
@Packmule3,
Finally, this was the strongest possible ending, but also open.
Sorry!!! I hope you shed a tear to stand in solidarity with Viva and I, and everyone else this overwhelmed. T_T
Can there be a better ending than a genuinely moving one?
I’m curious to read your interpretation. But this is a lot of work. I read reviews everywhere, nothing conclusive, my own reviews included. 🙂
I thought it was a happy ending, WEnchanteur. 🙂 But then, I’m rather simple-minded that way.
Happy ending, yes, yes, that’s what I’m trying to convince myself to get better. And then all the logical evidence points to that. Except that… when we see the completely depressed attitude of Tae Sul when he leans his head on Seo Hae’s shoulder, it’s not really what we feel… T_T
He’s too happy, it’s probably why he look so sad. ಥ_ಥ
It’s the best ending it could be under the circumstances and I am happy with that (minus the trolling). I celebrate that they saved the world, they fell in love and became better persons and they were able to positively influence some characters to the path of redemption.
Like TSul, we are also rooting for a winner-takes-all ending but if we’re really honest, it’s not logically gonna happen for both of them to win and be together. Even SH knows this yet she comes back time and time again because her main goal is to save the world. And there’s the rub. It was up to TSul to realize it and be selfless and he stepped up. So he gets big points here.
I really like Sisyphus, the sci-fi/fantasy part made my brain hurt at times but totally enjoyable and on that aspect it was actually better than TKEM. The romance part was better on TKEM though vs Sisyphus.
I am actually more touched by the romance here in Sisyphus than in TKEM. 🙂 With TKEM, I personally couldn’t catch it. With Sisyphus I can totally feel the subtle shifts all the way.
Yes I too am very gald to see Tae Sul finally become the hero. This show is one that I remember very well with bittersweet fondness.
LOL @WEnchanteur, I have to agree. That was the most peaceful and comforted, sad and depressed look on TSul’s face when he rested his head on SH’s shoulder. I felt it terribly!!!
Ah, you remind me that Sigma was the one who invested in Quantum & Time in the old loop(s). I was thinking about this … and figured that just as in the way, without Sigma, Eddy too could take up the ‘evil course’ to force the Uploader to be built, so too without Sigma’s money, there could have been others who’d invest in Quantum & Time. So the company was probably really doing well even without Sigma, since TSul was flying in Business Class in that airplane.
Happy Ending
@pkml3 I thought it a happy ending too. That’s why I said it was good. To me, endings have to make sense. If it made sense for TSul and adult SH to be together in physical time/space, then that would be the happy ending. To me, SH of 2020 was a 9 year old child who could never be with TSul as his ‘sweetheart’.
An adult SH would only exist in 2031 (Korean official adult age of 19) when TSul would be 49 years old. If we get to see a future with older TSul and SH, that would be fine too. That’s another happy ending for me, because it makes sense.
The other thing that makes it a good ending is that the war was averted. On the one hand it was due to SH and yet on the other hand, the loop would not have happened if she hadn’t first gone back.
I said in my other post that SH was mistaken in thinking that by going back in time, she could avert the war… well yes and no. Because of her being used as the bargaining chip, and because of TSul’s stubbornness, she caused the loop together with TSul.
Without adult SH in 2020, we’d have the time like what we get in the end, where TSul is alone in the plane with his memories, and there’d be no nuclear bomb.
However after umpteenth loops, TSul finally figured it out, that he was the one who had to end it for good. And he did it mostly for her sake, so that she wouldn’t have to go through it again … so yes, in that way, SH was right that she also helped to end the war. So this was another reason to consider this a happy ending.
Other reasons and conjectures: SH’s 2020 family is intact. Her dad probably ‘remembers’ the events of the loops and is grateful that his daughter does not have to grow up to be a heroine risking her life.
Sun Jae, Hyun Gi, Park and family, Hwang and family, Seo Jin’s dad don’t have to go through what they did in the time loops. Maybe Eddy gets to marry Seo Jin and is happy enough that he’ll not try to appropriate Quantum & Time as well, LOL.
Won Ju still bears the scars of his childhood (and we do remember that he caused his family’s deaths without remorse), and he remains a psychopath with a grudge against TSul whom he both loathes and hero-worships at the same time. But at least, he doesn’t only paint depressing scenes of destruction and death. He has ‘lost’ his ability to predict or make happen the future where everyone who mocked him dies. Or, and this is truly what makes it a happy ending, … he has lost the desire to kill everyone, because somewhere in his merged memories, he has looked into the eyes of someone who did not look at him with contempt or disgust.
We can only know what appears to be the case, up to the present, and as of now, Won Ju as Gil Bok, the artist, seems to have been redeemed from being the megalomaniac villain. What he might still become in the future, is not determined. So another reason to say it’s a happy ending.
In terms of a positive or moral message: Show also had a good vibe throughout, because the good people, although flawed, made mistakes and forgave. With all the justification in the world, SH decided not to kill Hyun Gi. And he repaid her forgiveness by not killing Hwang.
If SH and/or TSul had killed Gil Bok in 2020, the show and its ending would have been NOT good. The future could always change and give a different outcome. There is nothing than can justify killing a person now, for a future good. SH’s desire to kill Gil Bok in 2020 was also out of the desire for revenge … a selfish reason. And this would have tainted her future irrevocably.
It was only right to kill Sigma after the chaos he had caused, and was still trying to perpetuate. Hence his ‘execution’ was justified. Actually, if only TSul had died earlier… even this execution would not have been necessary. All the future chaos would have been erased (we saw how everyone of the future disappeared) including Sigma.
However the most important reason that the ending was good was that events more or less went back to the way they were, before time was tampered with. Our protagonists continue like us in an ordinary life, coping with mental health and obsession, and possible pandemics LOL, but really, it’s still life to be thankful for.
I liked this show. It was entertaining and I thoroughly enjoyed reading all the theories, predictions, and commentaries on this site.
My only complaint is that, while I realize this show isn’t supposed to be a romance and not centered around the romance, I never saw ANY of it. Apparently TS kept carrying on his Sisyphean task of going back because he wanted to be with SH and that was the only way (I guess you could argue that he was mainly going back for Tsan) and SH kept going back with her Sisyphean task to save TSul (and the world) because she reads in her diary that she loves him but when did they actually fall in love? I saw her saving him and him being smart but it felt more like friends/comrades not lovers. And yes I know it happened in another timeline but like, I saw zero spark- even the kissing felt friendly. The scene in the chapel was great but it just didn’t seem like they were sacrificing this great love to save the world. To me it’s like, duh, We both just need to die because you’re great and all, but I just don’t have enough fun on our dates to keep coming back and one/both of us dying/running/starving/hiding in a bunker. Does that make sense?
@WEnchanteur
If we have more interpretation on Tae Sul is dead or alive, it could help to conclude the ending. Currently my interpretation is he is dead. Other time travellers all disappeared in gold sand, but the dead body of Tae Sul did not so that can be interpret as his present self. If we run on the Sisyphus principle, he must accept death to avoid the loop. Now the loop has stopped, that means he is dead. It is possible to interpret Tae Sul comforted face as he is not punished anymore and can be together with Seo Hae, heading to someone brighter and better, or if afterlife is a concept in that universe. Wherever they are heading, Seo Hae and Tae Sul are happy and peaceful finally without any goodbyes. That is one happy ending I can interpret.
Lots of good comments here and thanks to everyone for sharing your thoughts freely.
I quite enjoyed the show, I find it to be mostly put together well although I do have to park the science part of the brain outside the door to have a good ride.
I find the relationship between Seo Hae and Tae Sul pitched at the appropriate level, there is this awkwardness which was present because they were thrown together quickly by circumstances and that got a bit less as they became more comfortable with each other, but it remained for most of the show. Maybe one can argue about the lack of passionate moments, but it sort of came across right to me considering the setting. That however did affect a bit in terms of how vested the viewer was in the relationship – I did not feel as much sadness as I thought I should when both of them gave their lives to create the outcome that can break the loop.
The show did have a fairly ambitious scope; time travel shows are never easy to do because the “rules” can really constrain things so I’m glad the writing mostly use it as a guide rail and was not too rigid. I was quite willing to overlook some of the embellishments like how you need to be jabbed before going into the machine, cannot have metal when the suitcase is full of those things, what is the purpose of having downloaders since it’s really the uploaders doing the work etc and that helped with the viewing a lot.
I was a bit puzzled by the ending at first, but reading comments here I ended up in the camp of folks who believe both of them are gone, and what existed was a state in Tae Sul’s mind before he died, and him forgoing the medication was him accepting that even if people think he is delusional he was quite happy to live it with Seo Hae. It’s got an “Inception” feel to it where some people ended up preferring to live in their dreams than to be in reality, and in a way similar to the ending there when Cobb just left his spinning top be and went with the flow.
I wasn’t sure if the writers could have got to the same point without having Eddie taking over from Sigma to force Tae Sul to die, but I suppose that’s what this Sisyphean outcome is, Tae Sul has to be the one to end it.
I did wish there were more Seo Hae badass moments, the segment where she beat up the hapless Control Bureau guys in Jae Sun’s apartment early on was awesome, but that increasingly gave way to cat and mouse type of games later on.
The concepts of temporal phenomena in Sisyphus are not easy to decipher. Naturally, we tend to think in terms of cause and effect, linearity or recursion. But here, as the sentence in the drama says “the future is already here”. There is no question of who comes first, the egg or the chicken. In the time of the time bubble, everything is intertwined and almost simultaneous. Not entirely, because that would not allow a story to be told, and according to their importance, the phenomena spread or reverberate more or less quickly.
The word “Paradox”: here I will use this word in its original meaning, not the meaning used in the drama.
An easy example:
You are at home and the postal service comes to bring you a letter. You read the letter, and the sender says that he is yourself from the future. The letter contains the plans for a time machine. Years later, you build the machine, travel back in time and write this letter, then send it to your former self.
Explanation: interpreted in a linear way, this is paradoxical. It seems impossible. But yet, there is always a cause and an effect. Everything can be explained, it’s just that it’s explained in an infinite loop. We can also see the thing in another way: the entanglement and the past-future simultaneity. In the time of the Sisyphus time bubble, the future is always already here. The very choice of the narration to show scenes from the future from the beginning reminds us of this vision of things. The drama uses this paradox many times, in a shocking way. We could write the list of such events, I think it is long.
Especially in the last episode and in a very short time gap: when Tae Sul and Seo Hae face Sigma in the church. It is their version from the future that kills Sigma. But on the other hand, in order to reach that future and go back in time, they need to defeat Sigma first.
Where things get severely complicated is when events that were supposed to happen one way turn out differently. First, it is believed that a new cause is produced. We then imagine that this cause will produce an effect. And then our understanding collapses and falls back into the linear framework. Indeed, there will be a consequence, but this consequence will also be a new cause, with a repercussion from the future to the past. A paradox. There is then a new global event frame, replacing the old one. However, this frame is also paradoxical.
Since there is a “delay” in the application of these phenomena, it becomes difficult to trace. The trap of thinking linearly is pervasive, when the whole bubble should be considered. Currently, I am unable to see clearly the successive overlays of change in the time bubble. So much happens in the last two episodes, especially the last one. Between people disappearing at one point, people disappearing later. All the details built up in the story.
Just one example: the scene where Seo Hae’s father gives his jacket to Sigma. At least, the Sigma painter, currently traumatized because nobody has ever given him any sign of affection since he suffered the attack at home. We observe that Seo Hae’s father does not forget to check his pockets because he removes his radio before giving the jacket. The theory is that in this jacket, there is a notebook describing the events of the time bubble (I do not remember when we see this notebook before that, it is to be verified). We can already wonder if: is the notebook in the jacket? Did Seo Hae’s father forget the notebook inside? Did he give the jacket because he wanted to give the notebook with it? It is important to note Sigma’s attitude at this moment: the expression on his face indicates more than relief, the release of a deep suffering.
Now, let’s study the way this scene is inserted in the episode: precisely between two events taking place in the church. The other Sigma confronts Tae Sul is Seo Hae. Then, cut. Then, the jacket scene. Then, cut. Then, back to the church: just then, Sigma suffers a time glitch and half disappears.
How do I relate this to the rest? Very difficult right now, I have to rewatch too much content to give any conclusions.
In the last scene, Sigma is wearing that same jacket? And he does take out the notebook. Please confirm me if this book and jacket are really Seo Hae’s father’s, I don’t remember it. But if it is, we can easily get lost in incorrect explanations.
Already, it is assumed that, since Tae Sul has ended the time loop, or that he is no longer there to code the uploader, everything will be erased. And that is retroactively. According to the mode of diffusion that I have already mentioned. From the past to the future, then from the future to the past, complete rewriting of the loop. And the disappearance of Seo Hae confirms this, as do the disappearances of the nuclear missiles. However, there is certainly a trap. Because in this case, the notebook that the Sigma painter possesses would also have disappeared! Hence the fact that this scene is at the end is very important.
The disappearance of Seo Hae or the missiles does not come from the fact that the uploader has been “cancelled”. And even, somehow, it will be built. Probably by Sigma, with the help of who knows who (Eddy for example, who could be consumed by remorse, or the plans that Tae San has). I think of Sigma as a leader because we see him putting on glasses to look like his idol Tae Sul. This gesture says a lot about a change in Sigma’s mindset. The character has changed in depth, but towards what?
Seo Hae disappears in the church, because in the new state of the entire new time loop, it was not during these events or for these reasons that she had to return to the past. The nuclear war was avoided! To know the state of the new loop, one has to imagine what happens in the future, how time travel will be used, how the travelers will change the past. But this must be done in a discreet way. Then one must immediately abandon this mode of reasoning and return to the paradoxical mode of reasoning. The notebook has not disappeared, because the entire new time bubble is self-explanatory in a paradoxical way. In this new temporal loop, we can expect this: the Sigma with the notebook has returned in time. The new Sigma painter is not attacked by Seo Hae. So why would he run away bloody, and how would Seo Hae’s father give him a notebook?
Because of the existence of this notebook, I reject the explanation that the final scene on the plane is a kind of “last dream before death”. I think if we can explain why and how Sigma has the notebook in the last scene, we can explain almost everything. But it is already difficult to place this event, and to know to which stratum of the time bubble it belongs.
There are also other burning questions: why does Tae Sul remember Seo Hae? Or does he remember her, or is he hallucinating a different Seo Hae? And why? There is too little information available, but I guess if you pay more attention to other scenes in the drama, there is something to fill in.
And finally, the hottest question: is the Seo Hae we see in the plane real?
Other points of the drama: against all expectations, the drama was exemplary in its way of giving answers. Around episode 5 or 6, the answers started to fall, and then more and more regularly, until the super swirl at the end of episode 15. Hey hey, I told you a long time ago, a super whirlwind was coming, like the end of the first movie “Saw”! ^^
However, there are still some unanswered questions, such as: the scene on the roof of the train, episode 1. The bullet in the head, episode 2.
We notice that this bullet in the head has the same narrative mode as other scenes, such as the bullet in the head at the end. Tae Sul is shot and then he wakes up. I had imagined that the first bullet in the head was a juxtaposition of two time bubbles. That one ended badly (BANG!), causing a reset, then the one where Tae Sul is released. I take the final scene in the plane in the same way: time reset, with unknown past factors.
@GB,
Reading your comment about the happy ending…
It sounds like you just watched a Walt Disney movie. (❁´‿`❁)*✲ﾟ*
(ﾉ^_^)ﾉ
It’s stupid, but I think I gave the explanation why the Notebook doesn’t disappear. I forgot to think paradoxically, as I was insisting on it. 🙂
The Carnet does not disappear because its presence is justified in the new paradoxical configuration. Since the time machine will be built and used in the future, then the notebook that was used to make it is there.
We have seen that some events have a propagation and a retroactivity modifying the temporal frame. When Sigma is killed, Seo Hae starts to disappear. Either Tae Sul will not build the machine, or if this machine exists, it will not cause the war, and the justification of Seo Hae to be there does not exist anymore. On the other hand, as soon as Eddy arrives in the church, Seo Hae stops disappearing. It is the possibility that Eddy will build the machine, but not only that, that it will lead to war and the justification for Seo Hae’s return.
On the other hand, without Eddy, just the Sigma-Painter with the notebook, the war is no longer on the agenda. Hence the unexpected twist of using Eddy, not only as a plot-twist, but also as a stand-in for Sigma. However, after Tae Sul’s death, I think Eddy comes back to a better footing and has remorse. You can see it in this scene, he falls to his knees on the floor.
I’m struggling hard with this, I think I should just rewatch the drama or episodes. LOL!
I just re-watched the second half of the last episode. There are quite a few unknown points.
Eddy threatens Tae Sul, and he programs the uploader. The uploader starts! Then, Tae Sul gives the laptop to Eddy, who asks “Is it finished?”. Tae Sul does not answer. We do not know if the program is indeed finished (which seems to be the case because of the startup of the uploader).
Possibly, Tae Sul could have cheated at the last moment, and corrupted his code?
But people will disappear and the missiles will stop after Tae Sul committed suicide. (We don’t know if the code was good or not).
Before the suicide, Tae Sul insists and asks Seo Hae to come and find him. He knows that there will be a next loop. His suicide seems to be there to prevent the war not the time loop.
I also noticed that Seo Hae said that his favorite color is pink, but the one we see in the plane is wearing a yellow sweater.
I forgot a valid hypothesis: If Tae San has the plans of the uploader, it’s logical that it’s him who is at the initiative of the next uploader or that he wants this machine to work to save his brother who just died.
I just figured out even more things, and why the next loop doesn’t have a war.
Chances are the uploader code Tae Sul gives Eddy is correct. But since Tae Sul committed suicide and chose the world over the girl, Sigma changes too. Hence the scene at the end, where he disguises himself as Tae Sul. Sigma has no more reason to create a war, Tae Sul has finally chosen the world, and has become a hero again for Sigma.
Welcome to the blog, redbean_bread.
Hello everyone,
I wanted to say that the Series ended in a very good way.
They wrapped all the sub-plots that were open and I got to see how the loop created in the first place. So, I am more than okay with this!
I cannot compare Sisyphus to TKEM because the Series all totally different. First of all, the Heroes are opposites.
On TKEM Lee Gon prefered to leave his girl and go to battle and die in order to save the Cosmos.
On Sisyphus, what we were told by Tae Sul himself is that he wanted so badly to be with Seo Hae, so he was just initiating the loop endlessly.
In my book that are two different approaches of life.
I really enjoy Sisyphus and I am okay with its ending too.
The Writer-Nims wanted to say that we have to be careful because one might become the Sinner for several reasons, greed, power, envy, etc,
and can create havoc in the process.
I am glad that even in the end, they were together. If we believe the greek mythology they even went to Elysium together!
🙂
From my viewing experience, I was very touched by the romance part so my heart aches to see the chapel scene where they both gone. Not that I don’t expect that in a time travel love story, but when seeing it happens it just break my heart into pieces.
I felt I witnessed how Tae Sul first pronounced that Seo Hae is not his type to asking her “Don’t go” at the end. I saw Tae Sul opened himself slowly, starting to care for Seo Hae. The love usually conveys through his facial expressions and his eyes. Or speak through the rescuing actions.
There are many moments that got me. In ep 10, the frustration, the urgency Tae Sul showed when rescuing Seo Hae, shouting at Mr Park that Seo Heo is not well. That one longing look he gave to Seo Hae before giving her the only jab to go back, how he has changed and willing to die for her in ep 11. I saw how Seo Hae led Tae Sul going through his past that he could not face alone. That face of Seo Hae when kissing Tae Sul goodbye (which I thought it was beautifully shot). In ep 12, the almost kiss scene gives us a glimpse of their domestic love life could possibly be without the far fetch circumstances. Later, the sad look of Tae Sul face in the school when asking Seo Hae who her favourite person is, telling us regretfully that he didn’t have much time left to spend with Seo Hae. The bunker back hug scene in ep 14, when Tae Sul pondered if they can just stay there to avoid the inevitable. Seo Hae told him how she made all the way from the future to meet him and believe he can do it. The way how Seo Hae begged Tae Sul not to go without her desperately. In ep 16 the departing scene. Seeing Seo Hae and Tae Sul crying, Tae Sul asking her “don’t go” came across so genuine, so desperate and so raw. Then after the unexpected Eddie shot, Tae Sul agonisingly trying to work out which point in time they can go back to try to stay together. Lastly, the frustrated and trying to be brave look on Tae Sul when asking Seo Hae to take care of herself and find him before he shot himself.
I can totally cry again when writing this. To see Tae Sul has grown from a selfish person to sacrificing himself for the others. Too see how Seo Hae be such a positive light to Tae Sul and made him a better person. Yet he still cannot avoid death and Seo Hae still disappeared in gold dust. I am in the camp that I can resonate with the struggles, the limits and regrets they faced in their time travel love and makes the ending very impactful for me.
@WEnchanteur Thanks for all your hard work!! I read and re-read you and appreciate the depths of thinking you had to go through and your awesome choice of words to make the logic understandable.
I actually like your last ending where Sigma changes. Yes, why not.
About the puzzles that remain and the question of the jacket…
As I cannot ever pretend to explain it well in detail even to myself, I stick to what is simple. I find it easier to stick to the one piece of logic that explains several things, which is, because of the many versions of realities from the loops, and regardless of resets, the overlays of all that happened, will still affect the current time line. Some things are visible and some invisible, some things are seen but are not really there, etc because they belonged to a different or past loop, but are seen by people of a future loop. This is perhaps show’s version of ‘time paradox’, so I’ll use that phrase as a short cut to describing the event of the jacket.
I was thinking that the ‘time paradox’ could even explain why SH on the roof of the train appeared to not see the ICB below her and vice versa. Yes she had run to that same spot in the past, but previously she had hidden under the train. The ICB and their drones that we saw were in the past loop, looking under the train. SH only appeared to be running from them in the current loop, maybe because she’d always had to run before (and her dad told her to run). However in the new time loop, she chose to sit on top of the train rather than under it, and the ICB people of the past loop were invisible to her.
In the same way, when SH saved TSul at the conference, in the previous loop, they might have run in another direction chased by the police. That’s why when the police came running into the hall and TSul tried to get their attention, they ran in the opposite direction, appearing to not see SH and TSul at all, although they were running in the open, and as large as life.
About the jacket Gil Bok wore. I couldn’t get a good screenshot of Gil Bok in the jacket except from the back. But yes, it’s the same jacket. If you increase the contrast, you can see that the folds/pleats are the same. The front pockets too when I strained to see the front but I only saw the top pockets when Gil Bok was shown seated at the easel, and from the front. The lighting is different in the screenshots, so it’s hard to tell that the colour is the same.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/18BHHWeDyiHX7M5OOXezshgXNOm5yFUi1/view?usp=sharing
So Gil Bok and Gang Dong Gi’s jacket.
If we are in a single linear timeline – we are seeing Gil Bok after the Church shooting and death of Sigma. Gil Bok had been helped by Dong Gi and now still kept and wore his jacket. He would then have experienced been shot by Seo Hae, and we see that the bust has the bullet hole in it. Therefore his feelings towards SH and TSul would not be at their warmest to say the least.
But because of the ‘time paradox’ we need not understand the time with Gil Bok in Dong Gi’s jacket as single or linear.
The Jacket question crops up because if TSul had reset everything, then why should there have been a time when Gil Bok was in hiding and had to be found by Gang Dong Gi, and received his jacket.
It might mean that regardless of what TSul did in the last moment of the last time loop, he couldn’t change what had always happened in other time loops. The ‘time paradox’ again. As in the case where without Sigma, there’d still have been Eddy to shoot SH, so too even in the new merged timeline, there were some events that would happen even if SH was not present.
TSul told Sigma that he had seen the future in which he would win. This means that there was not just many loops of time up to the time that Sigma won and forced TSul to make the Uploader, there was at least one other time loop (and possibly several others) after the Church incident, when TSul saw himself win or saw that he was so close to winning that he knew what he had to do, to make the win a reality.
THAT could mean that there were other loops in which Gil Bok pre or post the church shooting could have received the jacket and notebook, and under different circumstances. He might still have borne a grudge against TSul, but he might never have known SH except as a name in the notebook.
Kalimera,
Felicity Queen is back with a very touching FMV for Tae Sul and Seo Hae..
Enjoy!
https://youtu.be/c-l-6-0r2cY
How I see the unanswered questions are:
Is there a reset? Or is there another loop?
Is Tae Sul dead?
Is Seo Hae real?
Why Gil Book has a note book?
The plane scene happened on 15 July 20. Tae Sul’s death was 31 October 20. So if there is another loop then he has gone back to 15 July. Or one can interpret if there is a reset, it started back on 15 July.
If the interpretation is there is a reset and loop. Tae Sul is not dead.
However, Tae Sul would start fresh and would not remember Seo Hae. As there is no war, there will be a Seo Hae, but it is not the same Seo Hae that has been through the war and clueless about the menu.
Therefore my current thinking is the Tae Sul and Seo Hae are “time ghosts” reunited in the time and space that they could both exist, which starts from 15 July 20. I assumed Seo Hae has arrived before 15 July because in ep 1 Seo Hae took the uploader before the plane scene. If that theory fails, as my view is Tae Sul is dead so he can break the cycle, they are in some form of afterlives heading to a brighter place like Elysium as @Cleo mentioned. 🙂
As the show always promotes there is one world, two futures. I think there is only one future with no war now. If there is no uploader on 31 Oct, that is when the impact of no uploader starts. The traces of the time travellers that happened before 31 Oct remain. Sigma could still fund Tae Sul as he is still on the magazine. The room where Tae San woke up still has the TV screens Sigma has set up. The note book Gil Book has, could potentially be something Sigma left for him to read up on to develop into Sigma, but there is no use for Gil Book anymore.
Having said that, I am still open for the possibility of another loop. If you recall, the uploader was built in 2021, not 2020. With the limited information we have, it is hard to be conclusive.
@Cleo thanks for the video link. It was a nice watch.
@Viva yes those are the questions and your theory is as good as any we’ve got here. So if the there is still the possibility of building the Uploader in 2021, (as SH said), then there could be people from other times coming, but we just won’t know it yet.
@GB, you are right, I just checked.
The bust still has the hole in the head! Another detail left on purpose.
I enjoyed your post as well as Viva’s. But now I’m not in a state to go further, my brain is really overheating!
I’m posting a little something though.
There are two ways to see, even if the uploader is not built, and the time loop stops. I take the hypothesis where Tae Sul commits suicide and only he knows the way to build the uploader. Without him, the device will never be built.
– The moment it stops, time resumes its course at that moment. So past events do not change from that point on. People from the future disappear as well as objects from the future. However, there is a problem. Why do the missiles in the sky disappear? They are not objects from the future. They were launched after a bomb from the future, but that event has already passed. Therefore, it cannot be undone anymore. There may be other elements that contradict this theory, I didn’t have time to think about it further.
– When it stops, all the changes created by the future disappear. This leads to a reset, necessarily in 2001. At this moment, Sigma does not appear, as well as all the following travelers. The time frame has been rewritten from there. Here, any suspicious thing having a link with the time travel should be eliminated. So the hole in the bust and the notebook are highly suspicious, unless it is a continuation of the previous timeloop and the reset has not been applied yet? But for the scene of Tae Sul in the plane, it looks like an event that followed the reset. As we see the scene with Sigma afterwards, I don’t know if it’s supposed to be post-reset, or pre-reset. And here too, if the missiles disappear, why not the notebook?
My theory is that only Oct 31 is reset or part of the day up to when the uploader code is finally incomplete due to TSul’s death. I would like to think that although the airplane scene has similarities to the July 15 event (complaining passenger), TSul and SH are on their way to Hawaii after winning against Sigma on Nov 1 as his gift of tickets and cabins indicated… and these occur in some other liminal place that the 2 can be together again.
Hello!
If you are interested, I found Episode 16’s BTS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQGcltLtn4M
Check what they write in the video’s info.
It ends with a “To be continued…” What is that exactly?
Hi @Cleo, thanks for the BTS link. I used Google Translate. Looks like the “To be continued” refers to the BTS… they are saying that this is not the last BTS and to look out for more BTS video clips.
“Today is not the end of making.
Last making To be continued…”
I laughed when PSH grabbed Kim Byung Chul’s wrist and ran off with him. Now there was chemistry if ever we wanted it. LOL.
LOL, This BTS shows that PSH really cries easily even in real life.
If you are interested in the BTS with Eng subs, look for withyakyu on Twitter. Oh yes they really cried in real life that’s why the emotions are so real to me. I watched their BTS and there is a lot of chemistry between CSW and PHS.
Hope the link comes through:
https://twitter.com/Withyakyu/media?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
Was there even an ending? Lol, it ended happily in another spacetime for our leads, and Jaesun is alive! But did the time loop stop?
Sigma, Taesun, Seohae… they are all Sisyphus in a way, wanting to change the world, trying to outsmart the other — that with such great passion committed themselves to a Sisyphean loop. That’s the message my simple mind got from the drama.
It seems to me that Taesun n Seohae have successfully altered events in time, like Sisyphus has arrived at the viable solution, breaking small pieces of the boulder each time until it is no more. Then in the final seconds, we saw Taesun in the mirror image of Sigma 🙂
Hey @GB!
I did the same with google translate, but I wanted your thoughts as well!
@Viva,
I have heard about Withyakyu as well! 🙂
Hi here!
I wrote an article on sisyphus and more general subjects around it.
It’s not yet published. It will be on MyDramaList website.
It was also a good stuff to propose here, and I’m sorry I didn’t, but I have a main reason : the drama have a low consideration on many websites. So I thought it was nice to publish on a website where some people can have quick or wrong opinions, because they readed bad reviews or things like that. It’s better to give additionnal information about the drama there and to put the drama in relation with history of dramas. Note that it’s not a opinion article about how I like or not the drama. It’s more a stuff in the packmule3 style, but with different thematic and general overview.
Can you post the link here when it’s up? I’d like to read it @WEnchanteur. I don’t go to other sites, only BoD so I don’t know where to look. 😊