This is just a reminder that Episode 1 Rewatch for Hospital Playlist is this Saturday, May 8.
The Rewatch Open Thread will be posted at 9:00 am, my time. A password will be needed to access the Rewatch Thread.
13:00pm UTC
09:00am EST
06:00am PST
09:00pm Singapore, Philippines
08:00pm Indonesia
03:00pm Greece
12:00am Sydney (Sunday)
08:30pm India
This blog is a safe space for Flower Gardeners.
Question: How do you know you’re not a Flower Gardener?
Answer: Three telltale signs:
One, when you think you’re a minority on the “Hospital Playlist” threads. NEWSFLASH: The Flower Gardeners are the minority. You’re only feeling sad and lost because the FGers have congregated here.
Two, when you feel the need to defend Jang against criticisms. When you’re gritting your teeth, rolling your eyes and writing a tract to “correct” us whenever you read us, then you aren’t a Flower Gardener.
Three, when you don’t understand our sense of humor.
Lurkers, newcomers, and viewers who are interested in joining our merry bunch for our HP rewatch are encouraged to comment on these “Throwback Thursday” posts.
Please don’t worry about grammar. There are so many ways to contribute to a robust discussion BUT having a correct grammar isn’t one of them. 🙂 Don’t be shy. I want to see you interact with current Flower Gardeners. I want to see how you blend in with them. More importantly, I want to see whether you can be trusted when they share their opinions on the drama.
The material in this blog may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed without my express written permission. The Flower Gardeners will pay close attention to leaks of “Hospital Playlist” contents on social media by Winter Gardeners known for harassing, bullying, and doxxing our members online.
@Miracle23 and @nrllee are the gatekeepers since they know who the legit FGers are from the WG fakers. They’ve already emailed the password to the FGers.
If you think you were left out, please send your request to bodflowergarden@gmail.com.
It takes a lot of guts to be a Flower Gardener. But it’s also more fun to be part of an intrepid minority. We’re not going to give up on our belief that Songhwa is the best match for JW.
We’ll have a cookie bar at the reception.
Thank you PM3🥰🥰🥰
See you tomorrow, ladies and gens!
TGIF! Yippee, so happy to get the invite to the most exclusive rewatch party on the planet!!! Cheers and see you tomorrow!
Thank you for this re-watch PM3
Hi Everyone! Yay yay yippee yay!
I went into the rewatch thread and tested it already. All’s good!
Thanks for the well designed invitation @Miracle23!
I would like to thank our fellow Fgrs who have helped me a lot in separating between the fakers and the genuine when I was facing roadblocks. You know who you are. 😉🤭🤭🤭
Yuhuuuyyyy!
Thank you your invitation @nrllee and @miracle23
Thank you @packmule3 for rewatch
See you tomorrow!
Hey ladies!
Thank you for the Invitation! See ya all tomorrow!
Kalinixta!
Thank you @packmule3 🍪🍪🍪
Thank you for the invitation …. see you Flower gardeners 🌸🌸🌿🌿
Thank you for the invitation.. See you tonight…
Many thanks for the invitation. Will luv to join you guys for the rewatch, too bad I can’t make it. Enjoy yourself tonight! Waiting for more easter eggs after tonight rewatch. Lol. 💕💕🤗
Damn-it. I missed the rewatch.
Something came up, I couldn’t be there at that time.
😂 Wenchanteur!!
I’m now in a vineyard waiting for my pineapple and prosciutto pizza and my Chardonnay. 😂 Let’s see how this goes.
My background song? A folk singer just finished singing Madonna’s “Crazy for You.”
@pm3, hey! Hi.
You are lucky. I didn’t have time to shop. Everything is closed now. I wanted to make a sausage sandwich, but I don’t have any bread. I wan’t a pizza now, and can’t have one.
Yes, it’s a bit of an ironic fate. I forced myself to watch the episode, basically to enjoy the rewatch. I even made it to episode 5!
Here I give a spoiler about ep5 : there is a scene that lasts 5 whole minutes.
39:00 to 44:00.
5 minutes with characters playing a “mafia” game.
It’s supposed to be comedy, but nothing is funny.
Or it’s supposed to reveal the mother’s character at the end, or whatever.
The only aspect it has while watching is a 5 minutes filler.
Somehow, this drama never ceases to surprise me, pushing some… boundaries.
🙂 🙂 🙂
I think to award it the title of “worst drama of all time”. And frankly, it’s a compliment. There are bad dramas, but they are just bad. They don’t shine for exceptional quality and don’t deserve a title. It’s always better to be the best at something, even if it’s at the worst.
If someone tells me “This is a bad drama”, maybe I wouldn’t want to watch it.
But if someone tells me “This is the worst drama of all time”, of course, that makes me want to watch it! I’ve come to that point. T__T
Okay, I can still change my mind later. When I get a better sense of the qualities of the drama. How the scenes are connected, how the writer scatters her clues. Some scenes still manage to make me react emotionnaly. How. But not better than scenes of this kind in other medical shows.
After further review, I came to some conclusions.
In particular, why the writer never shows anything, but only uses conversations between people, about what’s going on elsewhere.
It’s used so much that it’s not a coincidence.
I thought it was unintentional clumsiness at first. Since she’s had success with it in the past, no reason to improve. There is also the possibility she write a puzzle first. (and look for triggering fan wars)
Now, I have the impression that there is a more voluntary part. She is not interested in the various plots and scenes that the characters talk about. She prefers to show the reactions of the characters, when they talk about something else. Well, at least I will understand the motivation.
In my opinion, it doesn’t work either. The overly extensive dialogue makes the conversations seem robotic. For large chunks, the acting doesn’t add anything. Showing the situations makes it easier to feel the involvement of the characters and their motivations. In the end, with less screen time focused on these characters talking, their reaction will be better conveyed when the time is right.
I don’t regret watching this. It’s incredibly informative.
In my drama script, end of episode 2, I have a rather long conversation scene.
And just so! Two characters talking about something else.
Exactly like the dialogue in HP!
Where I was a bit lax and content with the scene as is, this now blows a whistle.
Thanks HP!
My estimate of length is two minutes.
(Just read the dialogue while trying to play the characters, while timing).
There are some dialogues that need correction, but this one has already been corrected. The flow and meaning are correct. At the moment, I don’t see much possibility of shortening it. I have already shortened dialogues that I regret having shortened, having made the mistake of removing a good line.
The main purposes of the dialogue are:
– Comedy! These two guys are clowns. Some of the lines have to be funny. This is not a scene that is supposed to cause a laugh, but at least make people smile or have surprising interactions.
– Character Reveal. These are two new characters. They will trigger events connected to the main plot. Anyway, everything is connected to the main plot, I never put anything unnecessary, except clumsiness, and of course, comedy! Because comedy is never unnecessary. But for the moment, the viewer doesn’t know what. In the meantime, the story reveals their personalities, not very difficult to understand.
– Information transmitted to the spectator. The scene sends a lot of information. All this is disguised as comedy to avoid the boring and obvious side. The first 3 episodes are part of the exposition. I have to reveal the new situation of the main characters, and this is scattered in a lot of scenes, whether they are present or not in these scenes.
– Advancing the plot, Suspense and cliffhanger. The two characters make a plan that could harm the main characters.
– Like most TV content, this relies on tropes. It’s all about using those tropes well. Going to tvtropes.org, I realized this. Almost all content is a trope. I could list some of the tropes on the site, then analyze my scenes, and see that I was naturally using a lot of tropes. Which is not a bad thing in itself. Even some clichés can be interesting, especially to give the feeling of a Korean drama. And I just have difficulties to put enough of them.
Here, my conclusions are:
– There is dialogue, but there is no action. What can be added to make it more attention-grabbing? No idea yet.
– Allusions to other facts. Here, I already have ideas in my correction list. Can’t leave things as they are. This is an opportunity to include lots of very short montages and mini-flashbacks. That way, the dialogue will be connected to images, I can show what they are talking about. It print into audience memory. Immediate understanding and assimilation of the context, others characters, sets.
I was already aware of the lack of context, and was thinking of improving that. But after seeing HP, it became a must! This leads me to practice proofreading differently, by being focused on this point. I can easily notice “look out, here the characters are talking about something else, will it be understandable?”.
The advantage, this is the kind of flaw that is related to scenes, not to the construction of the story. Because on this point, there is hardly any possibility to go back.
@WE, we missed you, but never mind, we can still read you and you can read our comments.
It seems that HP, by being so bad, is able to ‘instruct’ you in much of what to look out for and to avoid in your own writing. A little teasing of the viewers is permitted but not repeated frustration. We get fed up if we are constantly unsure how to interpret the music or the lighting, or facial expressions, or when something is obviously going on and we are also obviously deliberately not shown. As you have said before, it is artificial suspense… not flowing directly from the story, but inserted clearly before our eyes. And we have to bear with it and wait to be enlightened.
Your points are worth remembering for the Ep 5 rewatch, which will be in 2 week’s time.
ヾ(*▼・▼)ﾉ⌒☆
A little housekeeping:
To our S1 FGrs, please email us for an invitation to the rewatch session to be sent your way. We do not have everybody’s email address since not everyone in our member’s list have requested for a password to the S1 protected posts. But we have you listed, so no worries😉
Join us for the rewatch! Hope to hear from you soon!
Cheers!
P/S: Happy Mothers Day❤❤❤
Send your password requests the gmail account BODFlowerGarden
@GB, Hi.
I’ve given up enjoying the drama. I’m just watching it in retrospect. If a scene surprises me pleasantly from time to time, so much the better. If there’s something positive in it, I’d like to find that too, but that’s been unsuccessful so far. I need to understand a little bit more what is going on. But I have no motivation. The drama is supposed to give me this motivation, and it doesn’t give me anything.
Here, reading subtitles is a heavy penalty for the drama. Independent of its interest. Just like the difficult assimilation of Korean names. I keep this in mind so as not to overwhelm the script further.
I fail to make sense of the scenes, most of the time. A meaning related to the rest of the story of course. Succession of scenes jumping from one situation to another. It makes me think of TKEM which also had this problem. It makes it more difficult to acquire the characters and plots. Besides in HP, we have characters that disappear quickly. Like the priests’ mother. She comes back later, episode 5. A lot of intermittent characters this way.
A scene should already be enjoyable to watch for what it provides in itself. But this is rarely the case. There are some examples though. Like the child crying in front of the doctor and his mother asking the doctor to scare him. Even the request for a divorce stands out from the rest, even though it’s not much.
For the tasteless scenes, why are they here? Does it foreshadow something later in the story? At the time of watching, we don’t know yet. It will happen, or not. Without any pleasant side, it just gives a moment like any other. Rather boring. You have to watch and bear it, without feeling anything. Maybe the scene bounces off a previous event? On some, I certainly must not see it. On others, it’s more clear.
For example, we learn that someone is going to have a liver transplant and that the son is the donor. Nothing very exciting at the moment. Except that there is a mystery, maybe the son is compelled. So a minimum of plot, at least. Later, it will be solved. Just a scene with two guys in a room. The real resolution comes during… a dialogue! Between two doctors, explaining the case.
Even for something that is just about right and understandable, what do I take away from it? Not much. Was I upset? No. Amused? No. Just something happened. Oh well. In English, the right word is “dull” if I’m right.
In addition to this, the scenes are prolonged. Either we arrive too early in the scene, or we leave it too late. Or the scene is extended for the most part, looking like a filler, even if it contains a point or two to notice.
About the songs: as a joke, as if the drama wasn’t full of verbiage enough, you have to deal with the lyrics of the songs too. lol!
When I look out the window at the rain, that moment of inner peace gives me more satisfaction than watching the drama.
Hi @WE, actually, I understand well how you feel. My friendly suggestion is to not force yourself. You’ve given it a valiant effort, having reached at least Ep 5. It is a show that does not offer enjoyment in itself in terms of a clear plot or series of plots that we can follow along.
What @nrllee said in one of her posts is that she sees this as a mystery to solve (almost like a who-dun-it without a dead body?). It’s not a show in the normal sense of drama. The verbiage, song lyrics, almost unnoticeable little details, MVs, posters on the walls etc are clues and some viewers (ie at least BODers) are playing a game by looking for those clues, to figure out who the couple(s) will be by the end of the Season(s) (we’re not sure if we’ll end at S2 or S3).
The entire show is the PD’s and Writer’s new ‘guess-the-spouse’ game. Hence the fan wars, because rival viewer parties are choosing different couplings, possibly based on deceptive clues which are laid to troll those viewers.
So unless you’re already familiar with the PD’s and Writer’s style and way of presenting a show, with the advantage of having watched their Reply Series and liking more of the same, or unless you like to ‘play their couple pairing game’, you will likely not enjoy the show. On some level, if one could get invested in the main characters, one can still enjoy the show just as a slice-of-life showcase of what goes on with doctors in a hospital, and in their private lives, but I fancy that this is not your cup of tea either.
Still, feel free to drop by here if you feel inclined. Or you can reach me on MDL for a separate rewatch of what we’ve liked before.
(*≧∀≦*)
I’m talking about the meta aspects here, so I won’t have to do it during a rewatch and be a pain about it. And just be focused on the content itself and the characters during the rewatch.
Maybe I’ll end up dropping it, but not really wanting to. Just because I don’t have the time or I can’t get into it. Already, I don’t watch the episodes in one sitting. I am forced to do poses.
I understand better the interest of the drama for many people now. It’s a big puzzle game, with hidden objects ^^
With some friendship/relationship stories to make it warm. It can work at times. But it’s in small doses. I like the slice-of-life much better as it is done in Start-Up. 😉
I don’t have the patience to get into the game on this drama, unfortunately. This goal alone is not enough to motivate me.
I can however predict 95% that the users of this blog will certainly win the game. 😉
The level of analysis is higher here than elsewhere. I don’t know if packmule3 had seen the drama before. Apparently not, judging by her recent posts. This will further increase the level of analysis. Ah ah!
If the solution of the puzzle found here is the one of the Flower Garden, the other teams are in serious trouble! 🙂
@WE
She has and she’s written so much on it but they are mostly hidden as protected posts. Only those that pertain to the rewatch are being copied and re-posted where all can read them. So what you have been accessing are throwback posts from 2020. As you’ve done before… you can see on the right frame that there are 110 posts on HP from last year. You’ll need another password in order to access those old posts.
῍̩̞(∗ɞ⌄ɞ∗)◞
Episode 5 seems to me to be one of the slowest.
I did find one good scene, though, where the dialogue is light and direct.
57:00 – Ahn Chi Hong makes his confession to Song Hwa.
So I was right about why the guy was the only one who came to the campsite in the rain. Hey hey. There are plethora of scenes with Song Hwa and flowers around.
In this scene, Song Hwa is not interested in Chi Hong.
However, she still has a slight reaction.
1 – Chi Hong’s sincerity is disarming. She is forced to see that this guy really loves her.
2 – She remains thoughtful and touched. Not touched by Chi Hong directly I think. It’s more like this man just reminded her: Hey, love exists. I remember that she had put aside that aspect of life.
GB, It’s writed “throwback”, yes.
I didn’t really know what it means. I didn’t pay attention.
But I get it know. “Throw”, jeter, envoyer. “Back” from the past.
The high-kick scene is fun too.
The shots on IJ are interspersed, and there, it is finally effective!
IJ’s dialogue is directly related to his sister, seen in the other shots.
However, the scene ends with dialogue that drowned me out from the beginning.
Can’t find a connection, they’re talking about an actress and a wedding.
No idea why they are talking about this.
@WE Yes, that’s right. I too am looking up the word ‘throwback’ as in belonging to a former time. The posts belong to last year, we are ‘sent back’ to the past posts.
HP used to air on Thursdays at Korean time 9pm, hence the posts are on Thursdays and it’s called “Throwback Thursday”.
Interesting point that @pkml3 brought up, on Thursdays, the traffic from Korea visiting this blog also increases. So there are more readers from there coming here in preparation for S2. What do you think of that?
Σ(-᷅_-᷄๑)
@GB, I will give a haphazard answer, but quite complete.
In the West, the way to watch a series or a drama is more general.
I have the impression that the Korean audience is much more receptive when it comes to writing a drama. That they are ready to invest themselves on the script and the screenplay. Already because there are dramas that focus on screenplays very loaded with references and details. Smart people, that’s my positive bias.
There is already a difference between the Behind the Scenes of dramas, and the “making of” of western movies. A making of is often loaded with storytelling, oriented. The BTS of dramas are raw. We see more the mechanics of the shooting, without as many cuts. Except for some jokes added with texts, it’s natural.
As for the interest in scripts, I have only one example in mind.
But particularly decisive.
I’ve seen every episode of The Penthouse, including the specials and Hidden-room.
In “The Penthouse Special”, the presenters only talk about one thing: the script!
They do this on a mainstream show!
Can you imagine a show like that on a western TV channel, in prime time?
And how do they talk about the script?
Exactly the same way as the BichesOverDramas articles!
Although it is not obvious at first, The Penthouse is full of details and references. I didn’t pay much attention to all of that while watching. But I was very surprised to discover all this in the special episode. I already talked about it, it’s a makjang drama different from the idea people might have of this style. The scenario is very structured, planned, the plot-twists do not come out of a magician’s hat. Therefore, it is possible to anticipate the reactions of the audience, to guide them in advance, or to deceive them in advance. With Foreshadowing and Easter Eggs.
The advantage is that in such a program, it is possible to broadcast all excerpts concerning the details that have been found.
They go quite far in the analysis, even though a one-hour program is quite short. For example, they find the trigger of the drama, in a side scene that nothing seems to predict.
Not only that, but the presenters of the show don’t do this alone. They read all the ideas sent by the fans of the drama. The Korean viewers have invested themselves to decipher the drama. All this gave a lot of material to prepare the TV show.
Moreover, even in other special episodes, the script is considered more important than any show. The presenters always have the script book with them. And every time, they tease the viewers, because they have the script of the next season. They read a scene or two, or act it out. The writer is always thanked on the show. And she comes in and says a quick hello in one of the special episodes. But she leaves very quickly, because appearing on the show may make her feel shy.
If this blog is known in Korea, at least by a small number of people who speak English, then I think it is logical that they come to visit it.
The last part of episode 5 is good.
Finally something worthwhile!
Various scenes following each other, confession, high kick, second confession, intern who fell for her teacher, heroine doing a biopsy.
As if by magic, it becomes good as soon as certain principles are respected:
– There is a plot! Or even several plots, clearly.
– No overloading in dialogue talking about other people. Mostly direct dialogue.
@WE, did you see the chasing scene? That is one of the writer’s favorite i.e. creating fate/ future prediction of sort. Assuming the one being chased is PG and the chaser is the one crushing on him, Shwa is destined to be the one to get him, saving him from that chaser. 😊 There is another one in Ep. 4. whereby Shwa drove in at the carpark, met Ikjun and told him she will be a chauffer if she quit being a doctor. Right at that moment PG drove in asking them to help him park his car. Fated.🤭🤭🤭
@WE did you watch You Are My Hero? At least 5 minutes filming nurses and doctors filling syringes with a drug that will save the pediatric patient. For whatever reason it worked and created the right amount of tension but I also thought no American show would be this patient. I enjoined the Mafia scene because of the joy and familiarity amongst the older (cough cough) generation. They were having fun and it was nice to see a depiction of the parent/grandparent generation laughing with each other rather than the typical K drama trope (trauma or plotting). I really enjoy your unvarnished opinion!
@WEnchanteur Regarding the offhand remark by IJ about his previous actress gf that you mentioned in Ep5? It’s a clue. It links back to the plot in Ep1. The clue is the show Good Doctors.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KI-kjXNkYzwkO7Sdwauib3NEd0djq4H5ZcbxJQQuLuM/
@WE Since you enjoyed the deconstructing of the Penthouse in the Specials, you might start to enjoy better HP with the many posts and discussions going on here. The concept of allowing the viewers to play along seems to be a thing in the Penthouse too, although of course the storytelling is ‘better’. You’re suffering so much because you are just watching without having read BOD yet (yes I know you don’t want spoilers).
A thought came to me that HP’s PD-Writer duo (Shin-Lee) are deliberately separating the wheat from the chaff ie, making show so difficult to navigate for the uninitiated, so that only certain viewers will watch til the end. They have made a success of their brand of teasing and causing of fan wars, and it is this audience who enjoys being teased whom show is cultivating. They do not mind that others who’d like a more conventional way of storytelling from the beginning, drop out of watching. So for you it’s only at the end of Ep 5, after much pausing that you start to find that there is a plot or several and things start to come together.
The 5th ep is usually too late to have snared one’s audience, but Shin-Lee do not seem to care. They already have their faithful audience who want more of the same that they’ve been giving in the Reply series, and Shin-Lee are catering mainly to them.
@nrllee thanks for the link to your doc. The text says the cameo of Go Ara was slotted in but I didn’t see Go Ara in your doc. I know there was a cameo of her later… so hard to remember and link her back to this time with IJ.
Why did your doc have “And later on we find out that coincidentally (?😂), IJ was also on the show Good Doctors when talking to IS/JWan about Go Ara.”
And immediately you have: “And look who showed up as the resident in charge.” (It was Jang, and not Go Ara LOL.) I was confused (actually I seen this doc before and was confused then too. Thought I missed something). Why do these 2 sentences come one after the other?
@Miracle23,
I don’t know who PG is. This acronym means Propylene Glycol to me. 😉
I remember the long chase scene in the hospital.
When I watched it, without cheating, I understood this.
(cheat: watch the episode again or read articles or comments that explain).
– Gyeo Wool puts a lot of effort and time into catching someone. She fails and at the last moment, in a quick and unexpected way, Song Hwa succeeds.
– Song Hwa is shown as someone superior to Gyeo Wool. I understood here why the two characters had some things in common. Even Glasses, for example.
– The drama shows these two characters in competition, it will be for other issues too. And Song Hwa is shown as the winner. I remember another scene where someone explains to Gyeo Wool about Song Hwa’s outstanding qualities.
– Why does Gyeo Wool want to catch the man who beat his children so badly? This insistence is suspicious. There is something bothering her, perhaps a trauma from her past.
Gyeo Wool: how is this character shown?
A bit like JP in Start-Up. I mean, the writer is ruthless with the character. The maggot scene. Then when she gluttonously eats the cookie in the meeting room. Another doctor gives her his cookie by the way. I don’t think it was out of sympathy but more out of charity or contempt. We also see her eating a croque-monsieur. The way she eats is pretty terrible. Even for a glutton. She fills her mouth like a bag and keeps everything inside! We also see Kim Jun Wan’s military girlfriend eating a croque monsieur, and even though she’s a glutton too, she behaves better. In episode 6, she has a weird allergic disease, and her face is awful. She’s a character that the writer martyred to make her repulsive. She do a good job about that. Merciless writer ! 🙂
@GB,
By now, you should know how I watch a drama?
Honest spectator. 🙂
Or “simple spectator”. Alone with the drama. The drama alone must be enough to give me joy and the desire to see the follow-up. The content must stand on its own. If I decipher something along the way, it is by chance. First, only one thing prevails: do I like the drama? is it fun or addictive? or in the best case, does the drama hook me naturally?
Only then can I find interest in deconstructing, reading articles. But this activity is not what will make me like the drama in the first place. I do not have to rely on that.
Example, with Sisyphus. Once I’m won over by the drama, I observe that the story contains a lot of situations that are difficult to understand. I want to analyze or know more, because the drama has motivated me. But never an external and compulsory explanation will allow me to like a drama. And this drama is enjoyable, even without reading any external explanation.
On The Penthouse, the reason why I tried to decipher as little as possible (and I avoided reading fan theories or analyses during the drama), is that the drama is much more intense and satisfying when you are surprised. And from the first viewing, I know that either way, I’ll want to watch the drama again entirely. And at that point, dig a little deeper.
Even if I read the hospital playlist spoilers on BOD first, I’d suffer just as much, I think.
At the end of episode 5, there are indeed a lot of plot-lines. These situations don’t come out of nowhere. I had detected the few isolated scenes foreshadowing these elements. And by the way, they were rather good scenes, because they finally told something, with a thread.
Example: Chu Min Ha getting the wrong idea about Yang Suk Hyung, when he asks for a newborn to be silenced. Followed by the scene explaining this, rather moving. Then the girl who falls in love with the character when she understands his reasons.
I’m not that picky.
I just ask the writer: Hey, tell me a story, instead of drowning me in crap. 🙂
About the writer’s philosophy that you explain to me: now that’s disappointing. I mean, not you! But the writer’s philosophy. These are additional arguments that develop my allergy. 🙂
Here, the opinion of Tom Williams, a pro screenwriter, among a list of tips. I’m always careful when reading this kind of thing. Here his opinion makes sense to me:
“See it from an audience’s point of view. Don’t signpost for an audience, but don’t give them two fingers, either. Your job is to present a piece of drama for an audience to appreciate, on whatever level they choose to do so. You job is not to confuse them, or show off, or be deliberately obtuse. Which is why, as you rewrite and rewrite your script, and recut and recut your film, you must always consider the audience. What do they know, at this point? What do they want to know? What do they care about? Where do they want this to go and how will I take them where I want them to go? You have a responsibility to your audience, and it is the worst form of creative arrogance to forget that.”
On this subject, this short section dedicated to confusion, commented by Tarantino:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSpqFn5TRCk&t=184s
I think it’s great that he uses Pulp Fiction as an example, because it’s a movie with a non-linear timeline. Like a puzzle timeline. This could lose the audience, and yet, as he says, the movie is immediately understandable. As well as attractive by its scenes.
@nrllee,
Even reading your very well done piece, I don’t remember the allusion. I remember a mention about Good Doctor without remembering the meaning (drama I saw and enjoyed otherwise). Impossible to connect this scene from episode 1 to the one from episode 5 at this point. It’s forgotten quite easily. That’s the worry of the overdose of various content, the split, the general confusion. Nothing sticks in the memory. We need an emotional content with a meaning, to assimilate.
On the other hand, in episode 5: the way the conversation starts about the actress is incomprehensible (bad subtitle or translation?). However, we still manage to understand that Lee Ik Jun had a difficult relationship with an actress. And very good thing, this is connected to the plotline very quickly in a following scene very close in time. So here, I feel that despite the confusion of the beginning of the conversation, the dots are well connected. The fact that the two characters meet again is interesting. I was happy to see that. 😉
@Good Twin,
Yes, that’s quite a shower! But I won’t bother anyone on a rewatch, I assure you. If I find story-specific elements that can help, I’ll go ahead and mention them there. And of course, I won’t bother the Flower Gardener because I have no interest in shipping couples. Plus, what I see of the drama so far does not present Winter’s theory as valid. If I go there, it’s to find the positive things and the good mood. 😉
“You Are My Hero” is a Chinese drama and I have too much trouble finding the raws to watch. I’ve only seen one, “King Avatar”, and they don’t do things the same way. No cliffhanger, almost no plot-twist (and the only ones there were failed). The story was still exciting though, because it’s a sports book, and a typical linear story of this genre.
If you tell me that a 5 minute suspense scene is exciting, I’ll take your word for it. I’ve seen this kind of thing in movies or other dramas.
About the mafia game, that’s not all, if I line up all the scenes, it’s really very long. First, Ahn Jung Won is eating vegetables with his mother. We learn that he is hesitating to become a priest, and his mother wants him to find a girlfriend instead. Good point. I remember her feeling that she failed to educate her children so that at least one of them would take over her business.
Then there are other moments, like when they peel anchovies and then eat the anchovy soup. I don’t really get that or understand why. Boredom is growing fast at this point.
I was already exhausted just then.
After the mafia game, I paused the episode, and continued it the next day. 😉
Why do I fail to perceive this scene as a warm moment? Strange, isn’t it. I would like to, but can’t. Why is it that a breakfast scene in “I hear your voice” is successful in this area, and not here?
The length of the scene ? its lack of attractiveness ? Ordinary dialogues? The lack of plot-line? Characters disconnected for too long from the others? or the accumulation effect, in the middle of an episode full of other unattractive scenes?
😈Oh no, WEnchanteur! Now you’ve done it. You’ll have the fans of GyeoWool Jang (I call her Jang bec it’s easier to remember) on you too. Protect your blog.
I said exactly the same thing about Jang. The running scene was hilarious because she chased the abusive dad all over the place (shoeless, mind you) and wrestled on the ground, only to have Songhwa effortless knocking the man unconscious with an easy strike to head with a water cooler bottle.
And that scene you mentioned when the senior doctor explained to Jang about Songhwa’s outstanding qualities, I said that Jang was envying Songhwa because Songhwa was described as “perfect” and naturally “pure-hearted.” Jang asked, “Is that possible at her age?” (Ep 4 at 14:30)
To me, she was being cynical that somebody as *old* as Songhwa could have remained pure. I dislike her insinuation that Songhwa was merely putting on an act and feigning kindness when SHE herself was more inclined to be two-faced than Songhwa.
Also I didn’t like it because that was the second time she dissed an older woman her age. She did it too with that cutie-pie doctor who was always putting on the wrong make-up. 🙂
Anyway, I’ll re-post some of what I’d written on Jang. I heard the Winter Gardeners are buzzing around this blog so… 🤷♀️ I might as well be hanged for a sheep as for a lamb.
@WE, wait until you read that runner’s character’s description and compare it to how she was portrayed by the writer, from the script. Writer Lee is ruthless and merciless, I would give her that.😎 She wrote runner as rejecting a warm cookie offerings with an excuse that she doesn’t like sweet foods, yet after that she gobbled up all those chocopies like no tomorrow. Writer Lee wrote that runner always the first to arrive at the ER during emergency call, that she was a sprinter yet she was shown swanning herself into ER when the pretty Dr. Bae was the one making the run. The only time runner actually ran was to chase a criminal. Maybe she has mistaken identity, thinking she works for a police force. That is not trauma. That is making useless judgment to gain acknowledgment from her crush. Her allergy episode is questionable. A doctor who frequents a menstrual pain and its meds did not know she is allergic to it? 🤦🏻♀️
By the way, PG is Ahn Jeong Won, runner’s crush.🤭
I was having a good discussion with a friend last night on Ep. 12. Will write about it when we are at Ep. 12 rewatch.😊
It may not be sufficient, but here some good foods to keep you company during boredom and motivate you to finish HP😂 🌭🍕🥪🌯🍿🍝☕🧁🍻🧋🍻🍷
You can do this @WE! 😆😆😆😆
@WE, I think I can understand HP on comparison is very uneventful. Over the weekend, I rewatched ep 1 of HP, and at the same time watching ep 2 and some of the ep 3 of Memories of the Alhambra, then rewatched some part the plane scene in ep 1 of Sisyphus to compare. I find myself a lot more engaging to watch the later two. I then remember that excellent article you wrote on MDL – Sisyphus has used a new way to narrate a story and generate contrasting effects. It has a lot of stunning visuals and gun fu. HP belongs to the traditional genre focus on relationships and heart-warming moments. The writer here is somewhat repeating the what worked in the past. And yet the HP writer doesn’t lose any audience. It is still very popular.
To know the audience point of view – it is a very hard question. What sort of audience? What do they want? Are they ready?
As for me – it is always funny to read your take on HP! I was giggling in the office when I read your “analysis” on Jwan/ChiHong.
@WE
What you say resonates with me too. I’m also the very ‘basic’ “honest” and “simple” kind of viewer. I want the show to do this particular job ie:
That is why our friends here rallied around to console me when I made complaints about not being engaged or invested in the show.
@Miracle23
Thanks for the info on how merciless Writer Lee is. I kind of pity the actress who has to play that role where she ends up so despised.
Actually, to be fair, I’d like to have some backstory on Jang. Why does she appear so mournful? Why is she so unkempt? Does she have any justification for being ‘sad’? Or is it just a show? What does she get out it?
@pkml3
Looks like you’ll have to increase vigilance over here on this thread as well since we are baiting the you-know-whos.
@Pm3, Miracle23,
Thanks about little events I had forgotten:
– First she said she didn’t like sweet foods. And very funny your comment. That’s exactly right! She eats like it’s the end of the world.
– That’s why when the doctor (wasn’t it Ahn Jung Won?) gives her his cookie, it sounds like: poor girl who eats disgustingly. Are you listening to what we say in the meeting? Are you that hungry? Did you come to pig out or to participate in the meeting? Here, I’m throwing my cookie at you, to let you know that I noticed your bad attitude. Cookie that she then puts in her pocket ! LMAO!
– The explanation why she runs: ah yes, that would be even funnier. She just wants the guy’s attention. 😉
– In the conversation, I had forgotten that she didn’t believe that someone could be pure, at Song Hwa’s age. Translation: Jang must certainly be carrying a lot of impurities with her.
– The reference to the run, with Dr Bay. Here, impossible to remember.
– The reason she is allergic. I didn’t finish episode 6, so maybe I haven’t seen that yet.
I notice that the actress is rather good on this character. Just look at the maggot scene I commented on before on another thread, and her strange fascination. There is always something awkward and slightly sickly about Jang. She smells like a messy girl from a mile away. She looks like she doesn’t take care of herself, she’s never made up, careless, not very attentive to her surroundings when she behaves a little rudely (cookie scene). She gives the image of a girl who is a bit dirty, who has gotten used to her own stench. Not a fundamentally bad person. Her attraction to Ahn Jung Won looks delusional to me, slightly obsessive, adolescent.
It’s a good portrayal, one had to have the idea to put someone like that in a drama. It’s not something we see often.
It makes me want to rewatch the scenes with this character. It is a interesting one. Just like JP was in Start-Up.
It’s easy to identify with a character like that. It has flaws that everyone can have, all proportion wise, not the full package. It is a character that we feel a little unhappy somewhere. We would like her to find some happiness or change for the better. It does not surprise me, again, that some fans of the drama plebiscite her.
The character is successful, it makes people react. It seems that you don’t like her? As if you met her in real life. 🙂
As a character, I like her though. I would pay more attention to her next scenes. It spices up the story. That gives me one more reason to stay in the drama. 😉
I’m always curious about the slightly nasty stuff a writer uses to taint a character. The next time she does something a little disgusting, it will make me laugh a lot. 🙂
Oh, I dislike the character, that is true. She is written to not be in my good book – as a doctor. I am very merciless on that since medical dramas is my cup of tea. Stupidity, foolish idolising of your own professor instead of working to fix your incorrect ways of handling your patients are not what I would tolerate in the medical profession. Her being described as the only Princess of the GS department with 13 older Professors vying for her favors, eating from her very hands would make you think she at least learnt some basic in her three years as resident, no? But what did we see? Gossipping, continue on her blunt ways, looking down on her senior? Sad case.
Her motivation has been set in stone since Ep. 3. She said she still has chance to woo PG. As a human calendar of HP (writer Lee made sure we have special scene to further clarify this position of hers), her purpose is to get PG to look at her, leave God and stand in front of her cause without seeing him, presumably she will just oust herself. The drama 🤣🤣🤣🤣
You may notice her unsheveled way… but she appeared full on make up when she first met Dr. Darth Vader 😏 Her character was told to not wear makeup cos doctors are too busy for cosmetics, said Shin to her. 😏 I don’t see Minha had any issue with putting on makeups though. My bet is he was bluffing and she believed him lmao.
I better stop… wish you happiness in your newfound interest, @WE 😆😆😆😆 please kidnap her from Yulje while you are at it🤭🤭🤭🤭
@Viva, Hi!
I answer you at the same time as GB.
I’m using the quote bit: “Your job is to present a piece of drama for an audience to appreciate, on whatever level they choose to do so. ”
Here it’s the “whatever level they choose” that I’m picking up on. The idea that a drama is acceptable on several levels of reading. You can even choose the level of reading.
And since you mention MOTA, that’s exactly it. The drama is more complex than I know, you have to read Pm3’s articles. I’ve only watched it 3 times (or rather two and a half times).
It’s an “Iceberg” type of drama. It has an accessible reading level and almost anyone can enjoy it. The screenwriter focuses on the story first. And behind it, there are also several other, more in-depth elements. It’s the kind of thing I can relate to easily. Enjoy the intensity of the story as a simple spectator. Then digging a little deeper afterwards, because I liked the drama. The in-depth elements are not there as embellishment, but are supposed to support the story subliminally, if done well. It’s not a game. Probably it’s my favorite kind of dramas. Because there is both levels. Also, if there isn’t a good top level, it’s almost sure I won’t like.
But if for a strange reason, you don’t like so much the top of the iceberg and you don’t care about that, you could maybe enjoy the deeper reading level.
It’s making the content accessible. There is no guarantee that everyone will like it, but the screenwriter respected the audience by allowing it. When MOTA writer said that the audience is ready, it’s because people have evolved and are able to accept more complex content for SF/Fantasy. Making it accessible is easier, there is no need to explain everything from scratch.
However, this is not a drama I could compare with HP, it’s far away. It would be better to choose a drama with slice-of-life elements, which is accessible and engaging.
@Miracle23,
Sometimes it’s hard to keep up with you. 😅
I am a noob! I need things like “HP for dummies”.
I don’t know why Ahn Jung Won has PG as acronym.
I don’t know who Yulje is! No character with that name on the cast.
You have a very good memory of the characters and the drama.
How many times have you watched it? 🤭
Indeed, your analysis is relevant. This girl should concentrate on her studies and do things seriously! A hospital with people between life and death. She looks like she’s at summer camp. Does she have her head in the clouds? 🙄
Instead of a BTS poster in her room, she has Jung Won’s picture? Maybe in season 2, there will be a scene like the ones you see in psychopath dramas: her room is covered with Jung Won’s pictures and her kitchen is full of maggots. 🤪
Foolishness: it was insane to start running around the hospital like that. She went without thinking. lol! Nothing is funnier than characters acting stupid. 🤭
I had read a doctor’s comment that said the drama was unrealistic, that there were inconsistencies about the hospital layout.
I read a comment from another doctor saying that the drama was very realistic, about the diseases, operations, etc.
What is your opinion about this?
Episode 6.
As I don’t know where to post this, I do it here.
I noted some nice scenes, with Chu Min Ha and Jang Gyeo Wool.
I like Chu Min Ha, she is cute and funny.
A bit like Gyeo Wool, she has a crush on her teacher.
The two girls have a conversation in front of the elevator. Although they seem to be buddies, the two of them throw jokes at each other, but neither of them pay attention to it, and they don’t get angry with that. It’s cool, they are not the kind of people upset for everything.
Chu Min Ha – She points out to Gyeo Wool that she always uses the same clothes.
Gyeo Wool – She points out to Min Ha that her makeup is so shiny that you can see yourself in it like with a mirror (it’s true that in many scenes, this makeup oozes moisture or grease).
Then, Min Ha is the only one at the bedside of Gyeo Wool. She slept while waiting for her to wake up. When Gyeo Wool wakes up, she does one of those unsightly little noises that she has a secret for:
“ROOOOO ROFLRRR”
A pig snoring! 🙂
Then, the friendship of the two girls is strengthened, when Min Ha becomes accomplice and confirms that they both have an attraction for their teacher.
Gyeo Wool is making movies in her head because her teacher sent her a message with a smiley face. Min Ha tells her that if she really meant something to him, he would be there.
The subtext in this line: Min Ha is there for Gyeo Wool. She matters to her, unlike the teacher.
@WE I see that you’ve started to enjoy yourself. 😉
@GB, indeed. 🙂
There are less and less flaws, more and more plotlines and interesting situations. More accentuated dialogues, character reactions.
The hard part was really until the second half of episode 5 and all the way to the end of the Mafia game. It’s a bit of a litmus test to see if the fed upness gets so high that the drama is dropped.
End of episode 6, the plotline with the baby who needs a liver. This was well delivered with multiple twists and turns, including the cliffhanger of episode 6.
As long as the drama doesn’t get lost in boring or confusing side scenes, it makes sense.
In episode 7, I can say that the first 20 minutes are overall successful and easy to follow.
The first situation with Min Ha, who scolds one of her colleagues because she’s tired of doing the job alone, and the other one spends her time chatting with a visitor.
From 16:30 to 20:00, there is a rather long conversation. The kind that were rather boring in previous episodes.
However here: there are few unintelligible hints to other things. It is possible to follow the thread of the discussion. Only one difficult moment, when they talk about Ik-Jun, Jun-Wan and Song Hwa. So, the same flaw as before, except that here the audience has had time to get used to these characters. So we understand what it is about. There are several good repartees or funny shots in this discussion.
I cross my fingers that the drama continues in this direction. I expect to see some boring and confusing scenes again though. Besides, looking back, some interesting scenes in episodes 1-4 were certainly drowned in the general torpor of the drama. The Cookie scene for example.
@WE, sorry … hahahaha… my answers as follows (it’s lengthy, I apologise in advance):
1. PG is a penalty I gave Ahn Jeong Won for his foolishness. It can be psychic guy or pabo (fool) guy, whichever fits 🙂
2. Yulje is the hospital they all work at, owned by PG’s family.
3. How many times I watched HP? Hmmm, see, once live stream no sub, once Netflix with sub, multiple times for science. lol I had to do the timeline so, I got to go back and forth scrutinising every dates and timestamps available in each episodes. Zoom, ffwd and rewind buttons were my best buddies that time. 😀 I don’t really do full watch post-HP. Just revisited few selected episodes to take clips for my write-ups. The re-watch session helps a lot in taking a new look at the episodes.
4. Runner is an army by the way. An Army is what fans of BTS boy group called themselves. So, she has been established as an avid fangirl.
5. The hospital layout is inconsistent because they used multiple locations for Yulje. The underground parking lot is at Ehwa University Hospital. Some areas indoor are Ehwa as well. Yulje building set is not that high in actuality. The set was built and is located in the middle of nowhere, deep in the mountains. Not in the city center as you saw in the episodes.
https://ibb.co/f0QwB3j
6. Realistically speaking as a viewer who enjoys medical procedures especially surgeries, HP did not give me the satisfaction I looked for in a medical drama. Having to deal with a dense resident who appeared in every episodes with the slowest ever character development doesn’t help either. Runner is a sole resident of the GS department where there are 13 professors. Imagine the amount of works she would have to do. Yet, what did they show us? Residents have a dedicated gossiping session with an ER Professor. Was it believable to me? Nope. She has been sole resident for 3 years, presumably, yet she failed to console and explain to guardians, communicate properly to erratic patient, and diagnose an abuse case. I watched a Korean doctor said that child abuse is a textbook case. So, how the heck did she miss it when PG already sensed something was wrong with the abuser’s story and saw the bruises once he removed the boy’s shirt. No, don’t give me he’s a prof but she’s just a resident crap. She was the first to look at the boy. *sigh* So, sole resident working for 3 years and not a single abuse case coming into Yulje under her watch? And writer expects me to believe that? Yeah, good luck with that. I am getting headache talking about her character’s inconsistencies. lmao.
On the contrary, I prefer Romantic Dr. Teacher Kim Season 1 (RDTK S1) in terms of characters development, technicality and lesson learnt as a doctor. Daily life as a doctor and medical staff is what HP is about. The simple and warmth story of friendship, family and of course the bait of husband hunting lol. Plus, Shin PD is more on creating a world of good people. He said so himself. No villainous villain.
The actor who played PG also played as the male lead in RDTK S1. After one point, he proceeded to perform surgeries on his own and became the hand double for the older actor who played Teacher Kim. In HP, he was not required to use those surgical skills. That’s the difference between the two. 🙂 Despite the same theme, their contents and objectives are different. They are not as 100% comparable, technically, as one would think. 🙂 Lurkers on the other camp, take note. 😛
Here is a review that considers both dramas. The doctor echoes my mind, mostly, with regard to HP and RDTK S1.
https://www.hancinema.net/documentation-or-fun-the-truth-asked-about-korean-medical-dramas-144897.html
My fav all time picks of medical procedures dramas are RDTK S1, New Hearts and Beautiful Mind. HP is a slice of life drama, so it didn’t make the cut. It will join the other group under that tag such as Be Melodramatic and the Reply series lol
Ranting kkeutt! hahahaha
@WE the fact that the PD-Writer can indeed put together something of a good drama in the later episodes, rather supports my theory that the initial episodes were deliberately made uninviting for the uninitiated and impatient non-fans of this duo.
@GB, I still hope your theory is wrong.
This duo would really fall down if it were so.
I don’t appreciate extreme philosophies like that.
Either cynical “everything to satisfy the public, without sincerity”.
Or arrogant “voluntary hermeticism to push away a part of the public”.
I’m not sure about the actor for the role of the guy who is always at Kim Jun Wan’s side. I’m guessing it’s him:
Do Je Hak [Thoracic Chief Resident]
Whenever I see this guy and his attitudes, it immediately makes me think of the actor Yoon Sang Hyun. (Ms. Temper & Nam Jung Gi, and many other dramas)
Episode 7
I’m not sure if the information that Jang Gyeo Wool heard is accurate.
About Ahn Jung Won inviting nurses for one-on-one dinners. It could be a bad joke.
In any case, she has the nerve to try. It’s really direct.
Please invite me to dinner for two. In other words, date me! 🙂
We don’t have the answer from Ahn Jung Won. I guess it failed.
And that a later flashback will give the result of this conversation.
If I had to mate Jang Gyeo Wool, it would be with Do Je Hak.
There is a short scene in this episode that foreshadows that.
Ah no, I forgot, this guy is married. Well, we’ll see.
Episode 8 (beginning)
Laziest excuse from a guy. Very funny.🤭
JGW – Invite me over this weekend for dinner.
AJW – Ok, let’s get together with the entire group.
JGW – No, just the two of us.
AJW – I was planning to go see my mom, sorry. 😬…
Crazy logical error right in Gyeo Wool’s face! 😅
He really doesn’t make any effort. 😝
@Miracle23,
I’m feeling a little silly now.
We see YUL JE over and over in the shots showing the hospital.
I realize now that I haven’t seen that many medical dramas.
Dr Jin, Dr Stranger, Good Doctor.
In these dramas the heroes almost have Marvel superpowers.
If Dr. Kim relies on dramatic events and a plot, it seems to me more appealing than Hospital Playlist. Unless… Could it be the writer of Vincenzo? In that case, it also falls into my “Slapstick” or forced comedy allergy. 😉
Do Je Hak got cheated for all the money he saved for so long. And yet, the drama makes him partly at fault! There was an earlier scene where his colleagues advised him to be careful. He laughed in their faces and acted pretentious: Ok guys, I’m smart enough to be a doctor, I’m not going to get screwed over for a real estate deal.
Karma comes back in his face. 🙂
@WE, imagine Jun Wan x 100. That is Teacher Kim 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 He is the best Prof of Doldam. Well, he’s the only one there, plus the Director who no longer going to surgery room because err he is the Director😅. Director is fatherly nicer than Teacher Kim. Nope the writer for Viscenzo wrote Fiery Priest, hence the dark comedy. But Teacher Kim has its own fun moments.🤭🤭🤭 The info runner heard is accurate. Show has established PG has no issues treating his staff one on one, except for her. Perhaps he knew she errr, had a thing for him lol. Ms. Cute Nurse clarified he did it without any romantic inclination. So fangirls should not jump into the rabid hole lol. The nurse will reappear in a flashback, WE. Remember her🤭🤭🤭🤭
@GB, runner’s backstory? A princess adored by her 13 daddy professors, brother looks like chaebol, she looks like his maid’s daughter. Ikjun and Jaehak narrated her ‘backstory’. That’s all about her. A fairytale princess. I have no idea which part of her is the princess. Perhaps the haughtiness or having the power to pick a surgery. Yet her first ever surgery was that minor surgery under the supervision of PG 😂😂😂.
Even if they wiped out that character, life goes own in Yulje without any issue 🤭🤭🤭🤭 Hesh, show needs to make this role worth my time. At the moment, she is just there with her fangirling antics to fill that extra time in each episode. A filler. No value added. It took her past ep 7 to finally learn something, properly. 🙄 perhaps S2 will write more about her.
Runner said to GS fellow and nurse that she likes prof. Ikjun. Ikjun admitted he’s her manager/supporter. A match made in heaven? Now I am worried for Uju 😐 if dr. stepmom doesn’t even remember she is allergy to the med that she, presumably, consumed on monthly basis due to her monthly errr issue, will she forget that Uju has allergy too🤔🤔🤔🤔
Hey, everyone! I just watched the teaser, and it seems Sunbin has a love story in season 2. I wanted it to be Chihong! Who do you think it will be? There also seems to be other new doctors on board.
hello everyone!! i’ve commented on the hiatus thread before 😅 I’m sorry i’ve been inactive here on bod, but i’m trying to catch up. Looking forward to hp season 2 with y’all. thank you!
Hi there, @britney.
Are you using a new name or email address? You’re being flagged as a newbie to this site. I need to search for your comment on the hiatus since only veteran and/or active HP posters will be given the password for HP Season 2 threads.
hello @packmule3! sorry for the late reply, i’ve used my new email but same name. Although i forgot on what thread i’ve commented on :-((