The thread is now open for spoilers, discussions and analyses.
Let’s enjoy the show!
83 Comments On “Doom at Your Service: Eps 11 & 12 Open Thread”
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The thread is now open for spoilers, discussions and analyses.
Let’s enjoy the show!
Comments are closed.
Thanks @pkml3. I look forward to this very try-hard show. It tries so hard to be obscure, and we try so hard to understand it LOL. I was chortling over the reactions of these 2 Korean girls who didn’t understand what was going on. Love hearing their comments. I want to replay one of these, because something the girl on the left (Mi Hye) said sounded like it was new to me ie the subs didn’t make that clear. But I’ve forgotten what it was that struck me … when I have the chance to, I’ll watch it again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F37vKxZnkjw
Kalimera @Packmule3 et al!
Let us enjoy Episodes 11 & 12! I have to check those girls @GB, I didn’t have the time, yet!
Thank you for this, @packmule3. I’m looking forward to the show tonight.
I caught the show raw, and there’s so much to transcribe!!! So many long conversations. So Cha is being outed as the son of the building owner and DK becomes aware of who LHK is. I really want to know what insinuations she was making in front of him with both LHK and SK wondering what she was going on about.
Once again it’s the girl who has to make the decisive moves whether it’s DK or NJN or Auntie, and even GD. It’ll interesting to know for sure what the clear and blue marble stands for and what it means when it gets passed, etc.
The story of the ghost doctor crops up again and Auntie needs to de-stress. The choice she tries to enforce and maybe the choice GD sets before DK gives us the cliff hanger for tomorrow’s episode.
I just finished watching Episode 11. It was a nice episode, until the last minutes that changed it all.
We were waiting for that. I am not surprised. Obviously we will having a death or two in the next episode.
I am just curious what will happen next to the first main triangle.
We won’t have a Goblin like deus ex machina over here.
As @GB wrote above there are some parts that need to be transcribed.
We also need to analyze the usage of the marble. I don’t know if we have all the answers.
I have this gut feeling that something we are not aware of.
The story progresses for the second triangle, even with the new changes.
So, If the deity girl finally revealed the truth to DK and fate is predetermined. Then what we have been told so far it was not valid!
Philosophically speaking that is something that the Epicureans and Stoics talked about. If human beings had free will or it was all predetermined. This issue was further discussed by John of Damascus for the Christian Dogma. I have written a paper about it.
Tomorrow, I will write some more.
Correction: something is not revealed, we are not aware of.
Dear Friends, right now I am really digging “My Roommate is a Gumiho” and I am waiting for “Hospital Playlist 2”. At this moment I want my Dramas funny, well thought and heartwarming. My question is… ¿is this Drama any of these?, ¿would you recommend it?, ¿is it so good as to grant a rewatch in the future?.
Thanks in advance!!! =D
No. No rewatch for this kdrama, @FGB4877. 😂
Heheheh! I agree with @pkml3. @FGB, this drama is not one that can be rewatched. It requires work to figure it out and viewers will keep asking: ‘Why? What did that mean?” It is not light or fluffy, although it is entertaining, and the plot is the back and forth type, based on an unusual worldview, but those of us who’ve followed the trajectory of the characters, are all in to see them emerge in a garden of flowers.
I’ve done a watch through with subs, but have yet to get deeper into the episode. I felt it was an episode that started off a new season of growth for the characters.
Well, although I did say I hoped that the first reset so early in the series, would not mean it would happen again, I take it back. *Heh* yes, there’s another one and I feel a more drastic one, and a step that is needed for new growth.
I can’t exactly fault the logic here, because if there was any way to end the contract, that would have been the right thing to do. Life and death was going on its normal path for DK and her family/friends and the contract messed it up. Her added stress was because she wanted to save everyone’s life including her own, but she was in a no win situation.
I do feel though, that it was good that DK got to meet MM and that he came to love her. This was likely GD’s goal. Although she said before that MM was made for DK and humanity, I always believed it cut both ways, and DK was made for him. She was after all the only one who could see his ‘real face’. He needed to be injected into her life for his own growth. It was telling that when DK said in this episode, that she was still growing, he was elated, and he felt that he was no longer alone.
As expected from having another 5 episodes to go, there’s still time for lots of frustration and a doing over, but this time with the wisdom of hindsight. In the way that Ji Na and Lee HK try a do-over of dating to see where it takes them, MM and DK too get a fresh start, and without that tiresome contract that tied them up in knots. Pragmatically speaking, I am for it. It’s good if the contract can be broken without a penalty (like Cha offered to break his contract with NJN without any penalty) so that DK can make her decision unfettered by external forces.
As for NJN, she has to figure out what she is really feeling and who she really loves. She has to grow to understand that being attracted by looks is not the same as loving a person. The 2 guys cannot actually do very much to win her over. She has to make the decision herself. I enjoyed the scene where DK gives Lee the long, meaningful look (more like a glare) and gets him to admit that the jerk who broke off by ghosting the girl was a mere coward. He is another one who has not grown. He should shake off being under Cha’s wing and fly off on his own.
As for Cha, he still seems to take on the ‘parental’ or ‘deity’ role, in that he is the one who offers to make or break the contract, who starts off something and then let’s it take it’s own course without interfering too much. Like GD he will plant his own plant in starting his own company. And I expect that all the writers who do not wish to renew their contracts with LifeStory will go to Cha’s side. 😉
I just finished watching Episode 11, and haven’t had time to mull it over for overarching themes, but here are some of my immediate reactions:
I liked how NJN took charge and told LHK she’d go on three dates with him in order to determine her feelings. I thought that a clever solution. She’s giving herself opportunity to demythologize him; or is it a romance version of curing by exposure, like becoming desensitized to an allergen.
I like how NJN practiced proactive truthfulness with CJI. He’d hidden from her his longtime connection (and current living arrangements) with LHK, but she was upfront about her intention to date LHK. There are many signals in this scene we should heed. CJI is carrying the green umbrella again. And if I remember correctly, it is the first snow, which NJN experiences with CJI, not LHK. When CJI didn’t offer to share the umbrella with NJN as they talked, then walked away from her, I thought, “That’s it for this potential romance.” But CJI came back and gave NJN the umbrella for the second time, making sure she connected his doing so with their first meeting, in the rain, and their first kiss. His cold exterior hides a passionate heart; he’s never forgotten that kiss.
The conversation between DK and her Anglo uncle is poignant and funny. They’re both speaking about deep topics and expressing sincere emotions, but neither one understands the other’s language. Haven’t we all experienced such a thing even while speaking the same language but not connecting on the meanings behind the words? Here, both are pursuing their own train of thought, but they meet where it’s really important: love and family.
Little brother, SK, has his moments of wisdom. He’s smart to have noticed and point out to NJN:
– wanted to kill = past tense
– wants to kill = present tense
He knows from experience that NJN usually says she wants to kill those she likes.
During the dinner scene in the aunt’s Jeju Island house (DK’s & SK’s home with her during childhood), watching everyone put food on DK’S rice made me tear up. Food = love. Giving food = wishing well. When Aunty placed a piece of food in MM’s rice bowl, it signified acceptance. MM eating that piece of food–when he usually doesn’t eat–showed respect, and his face showed that he was touched by her gesture.
When GD is lying in her bed after a health setback, and MM is visiting her, he voices regret that he’s allowed himself to love and be open again to hurt. GD says, “The things humans create are always grand, whether it be sins or love. They always shake up the world.” I don’t yet grasp her meaning behind this statement, because GD and MM are supernatural, not human despite their outward appearances. Perhaps she’s acknowledging that by opening himself to love and be loved, MM is moving closer to experiencing humanity. I don’t disagree that love, and sins, can shake the world; I question GD’s premise that earth-shaking love is a human creation, creation being the key word. Yes, humans experience love, but do they create it? DK couldn’t talk herself into loving anyone so they’d die in her place.
DK coming into the cafe and asking LHK cryptic, loaded questions, and even making a pun with NJN’s name was genius. I’m sure by the end LHK got it, because he assured SK his sister was fine, not suffering from aphasia (loss of ability to understand or express speech, caused by brain damage).
DK and MM are standing outside his house, talking. DK says, “If I’m born again, I want to be born as that moon. Sun, star, moon, wind. Things like that. Not living, but just existing. I want to be born as something like that.” She’s moving closer to MM’s mindset of being afraid to love because of the potential to be deeply hurt. MM spent a long time just existing and hated it to such an extreme that he wanted to die. Is that what DK really wants? She’d already asked herself, while writing in her bucket list journal, whether separating herself from all she loves can be called a life.
MM realizing he’s no longer alone is such a beautiful moment. GD giving DK the choice to thrust MM back into that crushing loneliness–especially knowing that her own (GD’S) time is short and MM will grieve for her–seems cruel. How could a mother be so callous about her son’s emotional needs?
The marble rolls out of MM’s pocket and shatters on the floor. DK placed the marble–the universe–into Doom’s hand saying and repeating that she’s no longer afraid. The marble was in Doom’s possession, but is it DK’s choice that is earth-shaking, universe-shattering? Was DK’s choice love, or sin?
So what is sin in the universe of this Kdrama? The general definition of sin is transgression against divine law. But this Kdrama posits that humans repeatedly call GD into existence, so are humans also the highest moral authority? What a hopeless mess that would be! If I, a human, decide I will do something and I’m the highest moral authority, what’s to stop me? Morality devolves into survival of the fittest. Anything goes, as long as you’ve got power backing you. If I choose to utilize the Death Star to vaporize the planet Alderaan and all its inhabitants, then that’s neither good nor bad, it just is because I–maker of rules–made it so. And if another human comes along and vaporizes me, it’s neither good nor bad, they and the rules they made are just stronger than me. Ad nauseum until everything falls into chaos and/or is annihilated. This is why I reject this Kdrama’s view that humans create the divine. I acknowledge that humans create mythology, trying to explain the world they experience; but I believe the truly Divine is outside human’s capacity of creation.
Thanks @PackMule3 and @GrowingBeautifully… 7w7 . I will give it a hard skip XD .
Dear @GB, hope you and your family is OK in Singapore. On another note, do you know if Barbrey is OK?. Both you and her introduced me to this Blog and I am still grateful to both.
Dear @PackMule3, even if I think that “Natsuko’s Sake” is a nice Drama, now I get that the more nuanced storytelling had a positive effect on my experience, but also it played to the Foodie and the Chemical Engineer in me ;p . I liked it a lot but the video quality is as dated as any VHS rip from 1994 could be XD. I still recommend it though.
Also loved “Marry Me!” thus far (thanks for your recommendation), the FL is the kind of girl I would like to marry myself: she is cute but more importantly at the end of the day character trumps looks by far and she has wisdom well beyond her years.
Kalimera from my part of the world.
There are many things I can say about Doom At Your Service. It might not be anyone’s cup of tea, and I understand that. Still, for me DAYS is a very good series talking about life and death and the choices -we – the people – should make in how to live our lives in the fullest.
I enjoy immensely the fact that it has me guessing what is told, what is being transpired and what is important to understand in the end.
The problem we all have is that we cannot understand the Drama-Universe, its laws and how it works.
Let us see what the Deity Girl told to DK in the end of the Episode, mark 1:05:11
DK: It’s too difficult.
DK leaves a big breath. She is stressed with what happened to her Aunt.
DK: Help me. Please help me. I don’t know what to do.
I don’t know how to explain that I’m going to die no matter what I do.
If I didn’t know that, If I didn’t know that at least, I-“
TDG: I will help you.
DK: Are you going to save me?
TDG: No. I can’t save you. That was your destiny.
But, I can change the two of you’s fate slightly.
I will be erasing both of you from each other’s fate. As If it didn’t exist from the beginning. Then you will die according to your destiny, without knowing anything.
Like a normal patient, you will get treated and work hard and slowly face death like that. You both will have no memories of each other, and the contract will become void. But because of your choice, the world will not be doomed, or the person you love won’t die. Do you want that?
My Note: From Episode 12’s preview, DK is the only one who has forgotten. For MM something is off, we don’t know yet. I think that he remembers her. If that the case then @Welmaris is correct, what kind of mother is so cruel to her son?
Here is another piece that give us intel about this Drama-Universe that contradicts what the Deity Girl said to DK in the end of the Episode.
When Myul Mang realized that his Deity Mother is going to die again, he rushed at the Hospital. Here is their conversation.
Around 35:23 mark, there is also a name written at the hospital bed, if someone can take a print screen in order to find out her name that would be great!
TDG: You’re here?
MM: Why didn’t you tell me?
TDG: It’s fine. This is all just part of the plan.
MM: I remember why I tried so hard not to love.
If I love, I get hurt. Because if the ones I love disappear, it’s too hard.
TDG: The things humans create are always grand.
Where it be sins or love. They always shake up the world.
MM: Should’ve not loved at all, no matter what.
MM is heartbroken because the time DK and his Deity Mother are going to die is pretty near. The deity girl caresses his hand.
TDG: It’s okay. It’s all okay. I’ll be born again.
MM: What should I do? You should know the answer.
Don’t act like you don’t know. Just tell me.
TDG: God lives for humans. That’s what I was made for.
I live for humans, then I disappear for their sake. That’s our job.
So here we have a paradox. In this drama-universe we have a predetermined world, with fatalism. That means that people will meet their fates no matter what they do.
So, where is their free will?
This is a huge philosophical issue that has been started back in the 4th century B.C. with Epicureans and Stoicism. The same subject was discussed later on from John of Damascus for the Christian Dogma, and by the philosopher Gemistus Pletho of the late Byzantine era.
I don’t want to write more about it, but I will keep it simple, and you can search if you want to read more about it.
If we have a predetermined world and fatalism people cannot do whatever they like.
They don’t have free will.
They just follow their predetermined path in life.
So, people cannot by any means be above the Deity Girl and Myul Mang.
God exists and is outside the system. People are part of this system.
So, the Writer-nim didn’t do a good job in that part of her research, hence our difficulty to understand what is happening with Shins and their powers, Human and their free will or lack therefore.
Still, we have a Special Being, Myul Mang being at a loss because he knows that he will be hurting again.
A human being that is going to die. DK, that doesn’t know what to do to ease everyone’s pain around her and how to protect Myul Mang, because she loves him that much and she doesn’t want him to die.
There have both matured.
They have loved truly each other and they are not afraid for themselves.
They are both afraid for those who they love and they won’t be able to console.
I would like to add regarding Na Ji Na, that she is indeed in denial.
Everyone can see that she likes Cha but herself.
The conversation that she had with Tak Sun-Kyung was very enlightening for us, but herself. Even DK knew it and after she was invited to Cha’s home she validated herself.
Also, her Aunt is in denial as well. Deep down she knew that DK is about to die. She knew the moment she found out the truth that the neurosurgeon doesn’t work at the hospital, but she cannot accept it. That’s why she is was under stress and wanted DK to seek treatment.
Gah…I am in it for the second couple. 😂. I just like their interactions more that the main couple. There’s angst and tension but it’s level headed. Even the first love guy. The 2 men are obviously at loggerheads but they fight fair? 😂. First snow trope? And the passing of the umbrella scene as an act of care for her. I like how Cha relinquished his hold on her by unilaterally canceling the contract. With no repercussions. Unlike first love guy who’s desperate to keep her tied to himself. Cha respects that it’s her choice in the end. And how about that for a love letter confession? A love story penned straight from her heart to his. He’s the male lead now 🥰
Another twist at the end? 🤔
Questions about this DramaVerse
– I thought everything that was fated would happen? That’s what GD said? Yet MM saved the little boy because he didn’t want DK to witness the accident. It was the same with that man who wanted to take his own life. His life was extended because of MM’s intervention? So is it fated or is it not? 🤔
– I honestly do not understand why there is a necessity for GD? Even if mankind prayed fo her, she doesn’t bother to do anything? Apart from shouldering the “sins of the world”. She really is superfluous? And what does that (sins of the world) even mean? If she’s not around the world functions just as well? Unless she’s necessary for life? 🤔
– as for human responsibility in anything at all, MM seems to imply (with the fate of the endangered dolphins) that humans can “do something about it” (to some extent)? Even though he’s the one who causes their ultimate demise/extinction? Huh? If they are fated to die at some point, then why bother? It’s going to happen anyway? Fated? No matter what we do? Might as well just keep eating tuna from wherever. Forget dolphin safe tuna. 🤔
– is there reincarnation or no? DK talks about being born again as a moon or some inanimate object (Little Prince became a star?). Is it just a “nice thought”. For all she knows she could come back as a rock. Or wood. Just like when MM says that we all kinda come back together again in the end. Circle of life? He doesn’t know does he? So it’s all speculative?
I think I will just stick to the second couple because at least their situation I can possibly wrap my mind around because it doesn’t involve me having to make sense of a metaphysical world where the rules aren’t clearly set. GD seems to be making it up as she goes along too. Creating MM for DK and then revealing herself to her. If GD dies, who is going to look after the pot plant? What does she come back as? A baby? If so, then the pot plant will surely die unless MM keeps watering it.
Hey @nrllee,
I will try to answer to your questions based on Logic, what I know and what I have understood so far.
The Writer-nim takes elements from several religions to makes her Drama-Verse.
1. So far, we have been introduced to a predetermined world with fatalism.
So, yes everything is bound to happen.
As for MM saving the little boy, I have this idea since last night I haven’t shared at all, that the deity girl wants MM to intervene when someone is about to die changing that path.
If that is the case, then the Byzantine Philosopher Gemistus Plethos was correct.
There could be determination and free will, as long as human beings would be wise and have prudence, so as result, Gods will be on their side and have mercy on them and their life. [Gemistus Pletho wanted to revive the Olympian Pantheon, let’s stay focused on what is important.]
(I am saying it, as I remember writing about this on my PH – essay.
*With your question @nrllee you joggled my memory and I remembered this information!*
2. If we believe what the Sophistes told back in the 5th century B.C.: Human beings created God(s) because they couldn’t believe that they were alone in the world. So, they wanted a Higher Being to make them lenient, to escape from the law of the jungle principle and be civilized.
I believe that if we combine what Gemistus Pletho said, then Gods are indeed needed whether or not are interfering with the Cosmos.
3. Humanity bears responsibility for what it does to beings that are not up the pyramid. This is something we all know. I guess what MM said makes sense.
Also, predetermination doesn’t happen to animals, only to human beings.
4. DK is using what she knows from the human realm.
I mean just because it is a Drama-Verse they haven’t shown us that the known religions are not there. Confucious and Buddha existed, so are their teachings.
If she is taught that reincarnation exists, then she used that to say her wish.
I hope I kinda helped.
Corrections: *As a result, *their lives.
Thanks @Cleo for your explanation. It’s an interesting take 🙂
You are welcome @nrllee. I am glad I helped.
I have to read again my essay and what Gemistos Pletho was saying to remember more clearly. 🙂
Still the conversation regarding predermination and free will is endless in Philosophy. I remember what I have studied, but there are obviously more.
Episode 12 raw was interesting. No matter what, the red string of fate still connects our OTP and GD is still on hand to push matters along a bit.
Although head memory has become dim, the heart still remembers the emotions.
GD actually tells MM that the plant is him and we see hope for it.
It’s time to sleep and that’s a good way to wait for the subs. LOL.
There were several times when I wanted to throw the towel on this drama but I go here and read the thoughtful (full of thoughts, literally!) threads and get pulled back in.
Life and work interferes so I will be late in viewing the latest episodes… catch up with you later!
I am coming back after reading my Philosophy Essay in greek, to correct what I wrote above and I am translating it, summarizing the parts that are of importance. So bear with me.
Pletho believed that there was predetermination in the world, if that was not the case, things could be worse because Gods will changing their decisions for the worst!
Zeus was the only one that was not participating in that predermination because he was (ο απόλυτα αγαθός) the absolute good and benign.
Since humanity is the creation of Zeus and is part of that predetermined world, at the same time humans have free will, because they have prudence.
Prudence is THE element of Physis that makes people free (i.e. have free will).
Prudence is given by the gods to mankind. While it makes them free, humans are bound by prudence to Zeus / god as the highest power (among other gods too), whilst making them not free.
My note:this is not a paradox, because Zeus is the ultimate power of goodness and that connection makes them to be good and taking the right decisions to life, following their divine nature.
So to summarize it, If I got it right, Myul Mang is a lesser god to the deity girl.
The deity girl is the ultimate power.
There is predetermination in the Drama-Verse, but people have also free will.
The more good they do, because they are follwging their divine (given) prudence that means humanity can do good and become better.
DK’s fate is predetermined to die. Her decisions might be based on other people’s needs but she is a good person at heart.
She used prudence whenever she was deciding something.
So, her free will made her change her Fate slightly (we are going to see more in Episode 12), but at the same time, she is bound to that fate of hers, i.e. to die.
@Cleopatra, it is commentary like yours that keeps me loving the Bitches over Dramas community. Thank you for sharing with us your expertise in logic and philosophy. Two of my favorite Master’s level classes focused on logic. I wish the subject was taught to students throughout their schooling.
Yes, I think a lot of our frustration with this drama comes from the writer’s inconsistency with the rules of the metaphysical universe. But, my friends, I appreciate that we’re wrestling with these issues together. Doing so makes this watch a lot more fun and rewarding than it would be if I was on my own.
And let me say that the cinematography caught my breath in the scene in Episode 11 with MM standing on the rocky cliff by the sea.
Dear @Welmaris,
Thank you so much for you kind words. You are one of the persons that I really enjoyed reading your comments on TK:EM when I came across this blog.
I agree with you, I wish that Logic and Philosophy were taught in school. They can help us in simple tasks in everyday life up to difficult decisions. The thing is that we need not to procrastinate with the fear of what to do.
I also agree with you that we can talk about our frustations in B.O.D.
I am trying to find the answers from the knowledge I have acquired through Life and my studies and communicate with the rest of you.
I always wait for your thoughts and I am glad that I am reading all of your ideas making this journey more meaningful and enjoyable.
If we agree on some ideas that makes me happy that we understood the same things. If not, then I am trying to understand your point of view.
Pondering is a marvelous thing and I am glad I can use my mind in this way. The process is giving me satisfaction, backed up by the notion that I have a community of people that actualy feel the same with me and we share the same passion.
I agree with you that specific scene was marvelous. The Director knows his craft!
As for Episode 12,/i>, Myul Mang and DK are meant to be.
Even the deity girl realized that was wrong and that some things are inevitable. So they are repeating their previous steps, minus their memories.
As @GB said above, their love is there, they don’t remember it, but they can feel it.
I’ve never thought that “prudence” is related to free will. It’s often used for being careful (with money) and pragmatic. But it makes sense – to use reason and good judgement is about choices and free will. Thanks @Cleo for this insight and what you have written.
Echoing what @Welmaris said about this commenting community! You are all awesome kdrama companions especially on mind boggling ones like DAYS.
Hi Everyone, just jumping in quickly (before I have to do my runs) to say I love what you’ve been contributing, your thoughts and thoughtfulness and I’m verty grateful for you being with me on this journey. It also occurred to me when reading @Janey that with the mind boggling of DAYS we are happily in a DAZE together! LOL.
Catch you later when I have some long moments. Will be busy for some time. See you!
I have given up on DAYS despite my love of Seo In Guk The pretentious/opaque? pronouncements of the deity just killed my interest. I love these threads though and feel like I get more from the interesting and thoughtful comments her than I did the drama. Is any one watching Imitation? The deity actress Jung Ji-soo is the FL and there is something oddly mesmerizing/compelling about her as an actress.
Kalimera everyone!
@Janey thank you for your kind words. I am glad I helped.
There are things that connect like dots and we can finally see a picture.
If one of us can help with some dots, then is helpful for all of us.
Last night I did an immediate translate of the greek word: φρόνηση / (Phronesis) to prudence. To be accurate though, I found the philosophical term in English.
Aristotle in Nicomacheian Ethics was the one that initiated the term.
I found on Stanford’s Encyclopedia of Philosophy, how Richard Kraut translated the term phronesis as “ practical wisdom .
For Aristotle, the combination of ethical virtue and practical wisdom can make one ethically virtuous and practically wise.
If you want to read a summary: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/aristotle-ethics/
For Plethon, Ι found in the doctoral dissertation of George A. Papacostas that he translates the world phronesis as prudence in chapter 4.
More Here: https://www.academia.edu/45638182/GEORGE_GEMISTOS_PLETHON_A_STUDY_OF_HIS_PHILOSOPHICAL_IDEAS_AND_HIS_ROLE_AS_A_PHILOSOPHER_TEACHER_A_Doctoral_Dissertation
Yes @GB, we are in a daze together and I like it!
P.S. My academia OCD showed up. LMAO!
I’ve been looking at posts from here for a while and never really joined.
This is my first time commenting and it took DAYS to get me to do it. Lol.
I hear that the ratings in Korea are very poor (2%?) but I honestly think that’s because it’s not run of the mill and it’s pretty deep. That being said… I have issues with the inconsistencies of the writer. But maybe I’m not seeing the full picture? Or is the point the coexistence of fatalism and free will?
Thinking about it though, this second time around, since they’ve not made the deal, does that mean the world doesn’t have to end and there doesn’t need to be choice between saving self vs saving world vs saving MM? If they fall in love again, it would just be MM loving the dying DK. Just the two of them without a contract… which… ok. Seems like the drama-verse was superfluous in that case.
I think that DK is predetermined to die (ehm the previews?!) — but I don’t know what MM’s end-game is. I think I’ve given up on a happy ending. Usually I watch the releases right away, and couldn’t make myself do it this time… for some reason this show takes an emotional and logical toll on me, haha. Why am I trying so hard? Is the writer even trying as hard? Heck, is the deity even trying?
The part where MM says “the garden isn’t yours.” What does that mean? Is there a higher deity than the deity and is she basically the drama’s (not direct parallel) version of Jesus, whereby she dies for our sins but does not predetermine our fate? But then with her comment to the plant that “things are predetermined,” who determines it, then? Doesn’t “determination” imply there’s someone doing the act of determining something?
Like help, I am so confused!
Hey @GoodTwin,
Despite the deity girl, the drama is a good written one and well executed by the actors / actresses. Someone has to be the “bad” guy, right?
I am not watching Imitation.
To be honest with you the actress Jung Ji-So is so good as this Oracle like deity persona, that I don’t like her at all. So, I cannot watch anything else with her at the moment.
Stick around, we have more to say here and there, about DAYS.
Hah to the deity of obtuseness! Hi @Cleo and @Good Twin, since I accept that the deity’s worldview is rather shaky and changeable at times, I’ve taken to interpreting what is said at face value as true for that moment in which the character gives their opinion for whatever thought or event they are commenting on.
I’m thinking that if MM is right, and there is only 1 life and no afterlife, then the belief in reincarnation is mistaken, except in the case of GD. It occurred to me to wonder if GD takes on all the hassle of reincarnation to save humans from going through it themselves. Rather than everyone having to live many lives to little effect, the Deity does it all and humans just get to live 1 life to the best of their ability.
Based on this 1 life only concept, it then sort of becomes understandable that the Deity can do resets within that life. It’s not something that is given to everyone however. This Deity picks and chooses who gets born for a special reason or for a certain other person, and these are the ones the Deity meddles with. They get snatched (kidnapped) and face resets etc, until they stumble upon the path that helps develop their full potential.
It’s a messy, haphazard sort of job that this Deity does, where there’s free-will to some extent, and then no free-will when things go South.
Which makes me think about Cha Joo Ik. He was rather like that. He has his protege, he gives him freedom most of the time, but he quietly hides information from him or circumscribes events that will affect him. He also does that with NJN. He picks and chooses just these 2 to meddle with. I like that in Ep 12, he’s more upfront with NJN and is pretty clear. He sounds less wish washy than GD.
We assume that GD agrees to DK’s decision to stop the contract and to erase memories, but she still points DK to the rooftop where she’ll meet MM again. No matter what, GD has planned that the lives of MM and DK should get entangled and entwined. So she gets involved even after resets.
It will be fun to see how she continues to help and to hamper the OTP, and how love will win out despite GD, despite resets and despite death!!
@Growing Beautifully, your take on non-reincarnation and interference calms my mind a bit. 😌 Thank you. I wonder if the deity allowed the Human contact to remain on DK’s phone?
I like how Cha Joo Ik keeps changing from one part of the triangle to another. Clever. I recall him telling LJH that he has his own protégé now (DK’s brother). I wonder if DK could be considered to be MM’s protégé?
@Cleopatra, good morning. I am not so deeply into this as you, but thank you for involving me in philosophy. It is new to me and very interesting.
@Growing Beautifully, your take on non-reincarnation and interference calms my mind a bit. 😌 Thank you. It helps to take this with a grain of salt. Did the deity allow the Human contact to remain on DK’s phone? 😉
I like how Cha Joo Ik keeps changing from one part of the triangle to another. Clever. I recall him telling LJH that he has his own protégé now (DK’s brother). I wonder if DK could be considered to be MM’s protégé?
@Cleopatra, good morning. I am not so deeply into this as you, but thank you for involving me in philosophy. It is new to me and very interesting.
@nrllee, I’m with you in your interest in the second couple. I look forward to their scenes. Shallowly, too.
@GB I have had a mull about the whole suggestion about reincarnation and the fact that MM said there’s no afterlife. And I think it means there is no “other place” people go to after they die. They just rebirth (like GD) into the existing Universe as something/someone else? Although who/what determines what you rebirth as is debatable. That’s how I tried to make sense of the 2 statements. 😂. Or it could be as @Cleo suggested, that DK was just thinking out loud and (with her Buddhist roots) surmising that it would be nice to return as something like the moon (which has no feelings). And there is no reincarnation/rebirth. You get one chance at life as a human and that’s it.
Original MM seems to be interfering a lot in Ep12. Delivering his own vigilante type justice to mankind.
I like how Cha once again took on all the risk of the relationship with JiNa. Either he resorts to stealing her from First Love or he lives with unrequited love. Both which require effort on his part. All in. He who dares wins. 😂
Hey my lovely @GB,
I think that you are right about the deity girl:
I am not 100% certain that what she says is entirely true though. I think that she is being evasive and omits the truth, because she is not a perfect being. (I have posted my Aristotelean Logic argument in another thread.)
I think your comparison with Cha Joo Ik is a valid one.
In Episode 12, he came absolutely clean about what he is actually feeling towards Na Ji Na.
Cha: I’m going to ask you something important. Do you like me?
I wish you’d answer me clearly.
Na: Why?
Cha: So I can act clearly.
If I should steal…
Na: Or forget?
Cha: No. Or love by myself.
You propably need some time to think. Think about it and let me know.
So, Cha wants a clear answer from Na Ji Na. He admits that he loves her.
What is important here is the mirroring of this scene with another two very important scenes that already happened in the beginning of the episode.
After the Reset #2, while at the Hospital, we get information about our main OTP.
The scenes happen simultaneously. We have two conversations with two main couplings.
One is the Doctor with DK, the other one the Mother and Son duo.
In the first one, we finally get to see what person DK is and her doctor is the messenger, after she gave him the apples.
Doctor: You’re so considerate.
DK: Sorry?
Doc: I want to tell you to live selfishly.
But that doesn’t just happen. Just live as you want.
If you want to help someone, help him.
If you want to be at a loss, do that too.
DK: So I don’t regret?
Doc: No. I like that you’re always nice.
At the end, being nice always wins.
Nice Tak Dong Kyeong, let’s win this.
(He used the word: Uri, the one DK always told to MM.
In the second one, Myul Mang after the reset is more savage and cynical than before. I guess, he is more in pain now, than before.
TDG: You’re here?
MM: The humans that you love keep becoming more tiresome.
Look at you. Do you really think it’s worth that?
The deity girl just nods.
MM: They don’t know. They don’t know anything.
TDG: You don’t know either.
MM: I know. I heard so many times, so I know.
That the garden isn’t yours. And that I’m just a butterfly in that garden.
TDG notices a change in Myul Mang and adds sadly,
TDG: Right.
MM: A butterfly is different from a gardener. He doesn’t sit on any flower.
I’m saying that your and I are different. There isn’t a single flower that I like.
TDG: Not a single one?
MM: Not a single one.
TDG: Aren’t they pitiful?
MM: Not at all.
TDG: And not lovely?
MM: Not even one.
The deity girl finally realizes that her drastic ways made more harm to MM, than before.
TDG: Right.
MM: I’m off.
TDG: I’m sorry.
MM stops and looks at her.
MM: After all this?
This specific scene is a mirror one. If you remember in Episode 1, the deity girl was saying to Myul Mang that he is a butterfly / nabi.
In this scene, he is the one who is telling to the deity girl that he is a butterfly.
Hence, her interference later on that she told to DK to go to the roof. MM is more miserable than before.
What really touched me though, it was that Jeju scene, where MM caressed DK’s cheek and he teleported back to his home. There he realized that he cried.
DK cried too in the elevator.
Which proves us right, they don’t have the memories, but they have the emotions behind it.
DK still remembers that she was happy with someone at the beach. She doesn’t remember who he was. She still has Kim Sa Ram’s phone at her cellphone and MM has the mobilephone DK bought for him. So, I have hope about the ending.
As for Episode 13’s preview, DK is going to die. MM is going to be very sad crying, and DK’s soul will be near him, but MM won’t be able to see her and hear her apologize to him.
So, let us see what happens with that part, shall we?
@nrllee, yes, MM was scary. And he described his actions to GD as ‘having fun’. His personality seemed different – more abrasive, bitter and angry. Almost demonic. I took it as him subconsciously missing DK and acting it out.
Dear @Fern,
You are welcome. I realized with all this conversation, the reason why I couldn’t warm up to the deity girl. Subconsciously, I couldn’t accept what she was doing, because it wasn’t adding up to what I knew. So, all these is new and interesting to me as well.
@nrllee, we are about to find out, what happens after someone dies.
I mean we will get to see what happens to DK. If she is an exception to the rule, then it will be mentioned.
I agree that MM was more humane before reset #2.
He was angry, but he didn’t know why. As he was looking at the clock that day , wondering about the remaining minutes until midnight and why it was of importance, a knowledge he was missing from his life. He didn’t knew and that was so sad to see.
@Cleo, hello. I had the same thought as you about MM’s new actions. I liked your reference about the butterfly. At the end the MM plant was reviving, but I wasn’t sure if the GD was happy about it or not.
Ref Cha Joo Ik, the subs were a bit different on the site I watched.
I want a clear answer.
Why?
So my stance can be clear.
Either to steal you from him…
Or get over me?
No. To be in a one-sided love.
It seemed more like an absolute declaration that Cha would love her, whether or not she returned the love and that it wasn’t trivial – that he would not get over her.
Hey @Fern,
I think that the plant aka DK with MM proved her wrong.
Their vain / hopeless love is right and she was wrong.
That’s why the deity girl said some things are inevitable.
She interfered much but she cannot change their fate in the end. They are meant to be, regarding what she does.
Yes, I know about the subs too. I have seen that they are different on Viki.
Cha already loves her. I believe he did for the past nine years, but he was doing that in silence. He hadn’t forgotten her, which that makes him a questionmark for me. I mean, he said to DK that he pitied Na Ji Na that’s why he kissed her.
In this drama-verse, the writernim has this peculiar notion about pity and love.
I haven’t encountered anything like that before.
I would like to add the most EPIC META / trolling / foreshadowing scene where our favorite and irritating Park Young asked DK about that story and the heroine’s dilemma…
Is Park Young going to write down the story of DK and Doom? *Winks*
Park Young: How did that end the other day?
DK: “That”?
PY: You know, how you said that if you choose the person you love, the world is doomed.
If you protect the world, then the person you love dies. Was the ending decided upon?
DK: What? I asked you that?
PY: What? You already forgot? Gosh, I was so curious I thought I’d die.
I thought about it deeply. This is the perfect material for a regression story.
You rewind time, then you avoid the moment, so that you never have to make that choice.
Maybe, no matter what you do, even if you avoided it, you fall in love, just like fate.
You might have to make the decision even then.
DK: You do talk as expected of someone who became a top ten writer with regression stories. What a waste of your talent. You really don’t want to keep writing?
PY: I do.
DK: You do?
PY: But, I’m going to write in secret. So I don’t get caught.
What do you think? I truly believe that he is the one who will write that story…
@Cleopatra, yes, it seems that way. 😊 He is far too intrigued by the topic to let it drop.
Did anyone else think that MM acted more juvenile than PY when he met him in the hospital lobby?
@Cleopatra, regarding pity, yes, it is used unusually in this drama. I think in real life, pity can lead to attraction and love. Not uniquely, though, but as in one of many emotions that might make a person begin to pay attention to another. I am recalling charity or fostering advertisements featuring children, animals, people with disabilities, etc.
I had the impression that Cha felt pity first and was surprised his reaction didn’t include only exasperation, impatience and scorn, which would have more normal for him.
Welcome to the blog, @Mikka.
Let’s see if @GB or one of the ladies can help you. 🙂
Thanks for giving us the transcription @Cleo. I’ve no time to watch the show properly or to transcribe. Yes… from what Park Young says, he may write the story himself. However, this is a meta for from this episode, because this is in a sense what has actually happened to DK since the last time Park Young met her.
Her memories have been “rewound/regressed” and she is starting again and so the moment was avoided when she doomed the world, but once again she meets MM and they have their conversations, and the strange feeling that they know each other… and of course they’ll fall in love LOL. I just hope that they do NOT end up having to make the same ‘doom world’ choice again!!!!
Hello @Mikka and welcome on board.
First of all, we don’t look at ratings. Mostly because we have our own ideas about a story we the B.O.D.commentantors like and comment over here.
Also, take into consideration that people are watching DAYS via other outlets (like Viki or the internet) than via national TV.
The writer is writing in a literary style. Her language is such and not colloquial.Even SIG And PBY have commented on this in their interviews and how hard it was for them to do their scenes.
I am not mad at the writer-nim. As I have said before it is her second script. I really like what she had crafted so far.
Look at DAYS, like a difficult book to read that is shining on the outside but have some deep thoughts in the inside. Everyone here does the same and tries to decipher the meaning of it.
After the reset #2, the contract is not valid because it didn’t exist in the first place! MM’s birthday have passed and cannot grant a wish to DK. So, this awful scenario is erased!
They love each other even after the reset #2. They don’t remember it, but they have the supressed feelings. That’s why there were shed tears in that Jeju beach scene.
After 12 episodes, I have come to realize that the deity girl did an experiment that started in her past reincarnation. Her experiment was to give MM a companion.
So in her garden she created DK who is meant to be for MM.
@GB posted her thoughts about it and I agree with her. DK is doing service to MM, as MM is doing service to humanity. Since is @GB’s idea I would like her to write more about it.
As for the phrase : “The garden is not yours.” It has to do with the Cosmos. The cosmos was created before the deity girl. She admitted so herself!
So, technically speaking she is only the gardener and not the one who made the garden in the first place.
So, what MM said is valid.
If that is the case, and I am using again Logic and what I have learned from Philosophy, there is an even Highest Power out there who doesn’t intervene in the world.
So, there is the system = the cosmos and God outside the system.
But, inside the system there is the deity girl and Doom.
Hope that I helped you!
Hey @GB,
MM wanted to make the deal at the beach, but this time around DK didn’t take his hand. The deal is off on this timeline.
Hence, the tears later on and the sad preview that DK 100 days later is going to die.
@Fern,
I understand what you are saying about pity. I guess you are right.
Still, Cha didn’t know Na Ji Na nine years ago. So, why would he feel scorn towards her? The only one who was at fault here is Lee. Na Ji Na was just a girl who was ghost by her immature boyfriend.
Hello everyone.. i missed the previous thread because of the hectic last week back to the office drama. It’s good to read all of your comments here..
Thank you @Cleo for your insights regarding the Philosophy. I never learn anything about Philosophy before, so it is nice to learn more from you.
I didn’t expect that one of the restart scenarios : memories erasing will be happened in the last two episodes. I agree with @Cleo, about the Jeju Scene. It was a sad scene for me. I recalled the idea of Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind,, yes the memories might be erased but the emotions lingered.
I believe GD had known that DK-MM love is the important factor to grow the plant. Therefore, she keeps leading DK to the rooftop and meet MM again. So far we as the viewers have witnessed how DK has pushed away her real wish. She finally cried and admitted that she wants to live with her loved ones, therefore to avoid the heartbroken she wants to push her feeling and the people away. MM said, he remembered that he doesn’t want to be in love because it is hurt to see their loved one died. He still think about his security when loving someone. But I see it is different for DK as she always care about others first, it is very hurt for her imagine that the ones that left behind will be sad when she left this world. She’s more hurt because she sees her loved ones hurt. 🥺
Looking at the preview after the ending credit, I think I need to prepare tissues for the next week episodes though..
🥺
On the other side, I’m happy with the second couple stories. I agree with @nrllee that the guys will have a fair fight. And looking at how the first date of LHK and NJN goes: which more like old friends reunion, compared to how Joo Ik treats NJN lately and how clear his statement towards NJN, I think we all know where NJN will anchor her heart in the end. Yes yes she still in denial phase of acknowledge her own feeling.
P.S:
@Cleo
I think it is possible that Park Young will write the story about DK and MM. I’m excited to see how it will be.. his encounter with MM always funny. MM can’t really talk back to him in the end. Lol..
by the way, I’m attracted to his performances (he also played in Start Up as the young HJP). I’m looking forward to see this actor playing the main cast in the near future.
@Mikka @pkml3 @Cleo @Fern
Like sure @pkml3, this time you can happily assign responding to us LOL (I’m still having a headache over work!!!)
@Cleo, yup, I sort of saw that part raw when DK refused to take MM’s hand. I hope it stays that way for their relationship, without any No-Win contracts getting in the way.
@Mikka you said:
Yes, and this is the ‘story’ that Park Young suggested. There is a rewind and despite the lack of contract, they still end up together and fall in love. This show is trying out different scenarios, they way we and NJN try out different partners on dates, and GD tries out different interventions to make things work. LOL.
The thought that has struck me now … it seems like GD’s plan was this … get them involved over a contract so that they’d spend time together and fall in love. @Cleo speaks of experimenting. And it sure looks like it.
When it didn’t work out the way it should because MM had to push his ‘world doom’ agenda, with the ‘most beloved doom’ rider, GD changed tacks twice (kidnapped MM, then kidnapped DK) to get them to realise that they didn’t want to be without each other. But that blasted deal to ease DK’s pain was still in the way. They/DK couldn’t tell if they wanted to be together because of that deal. It wasn’t ‘pure’ love so to speak, since they had an agreement with a penalty.
So I liked Cha’s willingness to break the agreement without a penalty. He is showing us the way MM should go. Because he didn’t do it, GD did it partially ie she broke the contract for them, but there was a different penalty: they could not remember each other.
Me too. I’m pretty fine with shows that way. If a person is meant to die, and it is logically sound in that dramaverse, then by all means, that person should RIP. However we keep in mind that this is a fantasy with a deity who seems to be changeable. One thing she said that stuck in my mind is that she asked MM: ‘can’t he change DK’s fate.’ He didn’t reply. It sounded to me like he maybe could? And remember, we saw him save that little boy from being hit by a vehicle. Of course, getting the tumour to become benign may be outside of his capability, but it’s an interesting speculation. And one more reminder … GD was able to make the wilted tulips fresh again. So the end is still open.
At one time I was positing that in the absence of any other deities, it seemed that the highest power was Fate. So if there’s no higher power above and beyond GD, then I guess things happen as pre-determined by fate.
It’s a great catchall actually. If DK dies, it’s because it was predetermined and no one, not even GD, can do a thing about it. If DK manages to live in spite of everything, it’s also fate, because fate has the upper hand!!! 😉
@Cleo Hmmm “Service”? I once began thinking about the title: Doom at Your Service, and started asking if MM was really serving DK or humanity or was it vice versa. My general idea was that it was a mutual thing. MM came to DK’s door thinking he was going to serve her by granting the wish. In so doing he was serving himself (what she wished for was his wish as well).
In their interactions, they started serving each other to highlight what was lacking in each other, how to be human, how to confront one’s fears and feelings, how to be joyful even in the face of doom, etc. I wrote:
@Fern @Cleo didn’t we say before that Deity’s garden and the animation of the opening credits was likely the Show’s take on the Garden of Eden. Since GD is not the Christian God of infinite wisdom, love and congruence (LOL) her Garden is flawed. She created MM and then DK as his companion (@Cleo reminded me of it with her post). In the Garden of Eden, there was meant to be service in harmony. Creation served humanity (it offered a source of food, etc), as humanity worked to serve creation (man could partake of the fruit and would later till the soil) and man and woman were meant to serve each other in mutual self-giving.
GD’s take on this (a pale reflection LOL) is that she made MM to serve humanity (all the flowers) and to serve DK. So DK should love him. Even without a contract to bind MM to serve DK, we see that it was GD’s plan. My take on the reciprocity of it, is that DK was made specifically for MM, because she’s the only one who can recognise his true face. Even in Ep 12 he’s struck by her remembering him. He really did not expect that.
There is only 1 reason for anyone to be able to recognise someone else, it’s so that they can have a relationship. It might be a good / bad / short-term or long-lasting relationship … but we need to recognise a person to have it. MM was depressed because he had no one to talk to except GD. However with DK who remembered him, he had a companion. I remember his joy in Ep 11 when he thought he was no longer alone.
So GD’s Garden is a garden of service. GD serves in her own strange way, MM serves the flowers, and it’s DK’s job as a flower to serve by blooming fully and beautifully until she wilts. It’s telling that MM is a plant only in the pot of GD and not in her garden. He’s under her special care. Until he could accept his role to serve the flowers well, and fulfill it ‘happily’, he was nothing but an un-germinated seed. But when DK (as the water sprayed on the plant) refreshes him, and he decides to serve her, instead of just himself, (and here I quote myself) MM finally broken through the soil of hopelessness, of self-deprecation and self pity and became a cute seedling with a flower bud.
The next episodes will showcase the ups and downs of that plant, and we may be tearing our hair out over the to-ing and fro-ing of the story, but if we consider Doom is to be served even as he serves, maybe we can be more at peace over GD’s intent, although not over her abstruseness.
Continuing on from @GB’s suppositions, I think the world which is governed by overarching Fate. No one escapes it. (@Cleo spelled it out for us). Although it seems MM can intervene and alter it somewhat – at whim. But everyone dies. There is no afterlife. There is also no attempt to rid the world of evil either. It coexists with good. Whilst we have seen some attempts by MM to enact his own version of vigilante justice and alter Fate, he by no means does it consistently. Evil persists.
GD I think actually loves the world/humanity. Her willingness to “bear their sins” and dying repeatedly in a Sisyphean loop seems almost futile. But I think her creation of MM and also her tinkering with his relationship with DK is her experimental attempt to try to make the best of the world determined by Fate? She is trying to get humanity to live well within their assigned fates? MM is the dark side of fatalism – everything is pointless. Humankind will never learn. There is no meaning to life as it is. DK on the other hand always responds to everything thrust at her with kindness. Which seems to be the other extreme. I think they balance each other out. And we get realism? 😂 So not all Gloom, and not all rainbows and lollipops, but some happy median? GD seems to be experimenting and working that out via her interventions. First by creating MM, then by initiating contact between the pair of them. All the while working within the confines of Fate. Utilizing MM (misfortunes/bad luck) as a foil to highlight the “blessings” we have in life. Maybe this is where Prudence comes in. Choosing to live well regardless of misfortunes and evil and the hand that Fate has dealt us. MM without DK is quite vindictive and I think hasn’t quite “grown up” to grasp the reason for his existence. So I guess it’s similar to the conclusion that @GB came to above. He needs DK (as a learning experience) so that he can learn to do his job “happily”.
That’s the best I can do so far in making sense of it. 😂. I don’t know if it made any sense.
Hie. Stumbled here when The King Eternal Monarch was running and loved it though l never commented. I am enjoying DAYS and thought of joining this family here if you don’t mind 😉.
Growing Up and Stepping Forward
@nrllee
Thanks for developing the ideas for us. Yes, this is roughly what I have in mind as well, as the ‘logic’ of what GD is doing and what is happening. It makes sense to me!! 😉
I feel that both DK and MM have to ‘grow up’. They’ve been kind of stuck in place. DK with her ultra kindness, balances out MM’s unkindness beautifully, but she has to also be kinder to herself.
Taking the Pinocchio and plant metaphors again, GD is waiting for MM to be a real boy (more humane) and a grown man (a plant that bears flowers/fruit).
I was wondering what the wilting plant that starts righting itself means at the end of Ep 12 … it was MM who was suddenly interested in one member of humanity. It was MM who was willing to call out to one person, to call her by name, and instead of judging, bargaining or baiting, it was an MM who wanted to make a connection with a human person, when he had only thought to despise humanity. I like the reciprocity and balance of it all because he was calling out the name of the one who had named him.
And I like what the director did with the last scene.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DkCXVuL8UfvwgsLPgGH5DRhWWLLQq3TQ/view?usp=sharing
The camera angle makes DK look pale and tiny in the lift while MM stands looming so dark and tall, against a clinical white wall. He looks almost too big/tall for the lift. We wonder if he will enter the lift to fit himself into DK’s mortal life, or whether she’ll come out to accompany him in the barrenness of his everlasting existence.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1G6XNgvSbfFRUrTNoDY8Hw_eKAsutpu8Q/view?usp=sharing
We see a real mirroring. MM is reflected in the wall still against a cold, barren backdrop, looking smaller this time, …
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KP-na7RuHAOcC0Cr4IsUV5lynpJbpFhw/view?usp=sharing
then DK is shown to us in close-up, large and reflected in the mirror behind her. She looks warm, inviting and close enough to embrace.
They had each called the other by name, so to speak. They can each take a step forward, to move into the life of the other, and like what @nrllee @Cleo, and many others and I have been conjecturing, they can start growing up.
Welcome @CinnamonV, we’re always happy to have more join us to share their thoughts. Do tell us what you think of DAYS and why you like it. Catch ya later!
hi ladies… Wow this thread is moving fast, took me a while to get through all the comments! Thank you for this wonderful discussions!
Episode 12 gave me mixed feelings, primarily because of the way ‘reset’ was handled. I think I agree with you @cleo and @GB that GD took away memories, but the feelings are still there.
I love the little touches where they go through the motions they acquired by being together, but don’t even realize it.
When DK collapses in pain in the elevator, she reaches out her had instinctively to MM. Even though in this reset there is no way for her to know that he can take the pain away. After the fact, he actually has to point it out to her.
And when he automatically gets up a few minutes before 12 and starts walking determinedly, only to stop and realize that he doesn’t know where he’s going.
When in Episode 11 GD said that she’ll erase them from each other’s fates, I thought it would be something like the erasure in “It’s a wonderful life”. Or like in the version she created for MM when noone remember DK at all when she pulled DK to her garden. People’s lives were actually changed significantly by the erasure. But in this case it seems that she only tampered with everyone’s memories, without even removing the associated artifacts? It does seem to me a bit inconsistent –> The entries in the diary are removed, yet the number in the phone is saved, and judging by preview, so are the pictures on his. Her brother having faint memory of DK dating someone, and the writer remembering what he told her about the story would not have happened had DK and MM not met, so they must be experiencing memory blanks too? I.e. this reset doesn’t seem all that thorough, even by GD’s own standards.
Then GD did not really erase them as if they never happened, but only erased memories. (thanks @moonstar512 for mentioning ‘Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind’ – i had a nagging feeling during the scene at the beach that it reminds me of something, and now I know what that was!) Which, honestly, seems possibly even more cruel to me. As you girls mentioned on the thread, they feel the pain but don’t remember the cause.
I’m wondering now if GD loves humans in the abstract, but doesn’t really understand them on an individual level herself. She may mean well, but her methods are crude because she herself has never been human. She really isn’t that different from MM, when he thinks he understands humans just because he hears them… She pities them, but is pity really love? Isn’t pity condescending? Maybe it’s something lost in translation? Like ’empathy’? When MM actually fell in love with DK, he didn’t just pity her. He was happiest when he realized he was not alone, and that implies that he thought of her as a partner. Pity may stir feelings, but I don’t think pity itself is love.
It would explain why GD cannot predict what’s happening or is surprised by different effects her actions have on MM. She doesn’t really know what she’s doing. She sees symptoms, like the growing/wilting flower in the pot, but she doesn’t feel the nature of the process. She meddles, but cannot predict the outcome because she actually doesn’t know what the feelings she stirs actually feel like…
Hello Ladies!
So many things were told already! I feel like we finally found our way out of the loop like, laser cut abstract design of the Labyrinth the Writer-nim made us go in without Ariadne’s String!
BUT ! We have found our way out! *grins*
@GB and @nrllee:
We have found indeed, the fundamental base we were all wondering about!
@GB, pointed the “Service” principle, while @nrllee made a very good summary of the points we were discussing the past days.
I am going to add some strokes here and there to our abstract painting to hang it, above that huge living room Myul Mang has! LMAO!
…
Voila, this drama-verse starts to make sense!
Yes, @nrlee and @GB, this is a predetermined world with fatalism portrayed by the demonic Myul Mang and the kind and stoic DK.
There is balance even in the extremes. We have yin-yan.
@Vasilisa, since the deity girl was created by the cries of humanity after the cosmos and humanity was built, then as have said in another thread using Aristotelean Logic, she is not a perfect special being.
You are right @vasilisa, that the deity girl cannot understand in depth human feelings. Hence that Oracle like, apathy like, Persona of hers, that we -the viewers- cannot understand!
She is the Gardener after all. She tends to the garden’s needs. That doesn’t mean that she can fully understand how the garden feels. She may listen to its cries, but she cannot fully connect.
@Moonstar512, I really liked your point about the “Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind”. I really love this movie and what it tried to tell us.
So yes, if we combine your comment with @vasilisa, the deity girl as an imperfect goddess did a sloppy reset where the memories were gone/erased, but not the facts.
But why did she do a sloppy reset #2?
Mostly because the deity girl is dying herself!
Her Special Powers are not as they were used to. That’s why she told DK to hurry. Her Life Force, should I say her battery, is at the lowest part, below 30%.
She is drained and she did what she could. That’s why, she didn’t finish the job, though. If she was better, the reset would be absolute.
P.S. @Moonstar512 thank you for your kind words. I am still a novice in Philosophy, but what I have known I have learned it well. I am glad that I helped.
Also, I am waiting for that Novel Park Young is writing.
Yes, MM was more childish than PY. I love their bickerings and I am waiting for that actor to shine because his acting capacity is superb!
Thanks @Vasilisa @Cleo and everyone who’s contributed ideas. Yes, I do believe we’ve more or less ‘got it’!! LOL. We’ve been like detectives looking for clues about what is happening with the main plot and what we’ve come up with together, makes a lot of sense.
To add to all that you’ve said (I agree that GD is probably not well clued into what humans will do and is taken by surprise herself and that GD is too sick to do a good job of the reset… or she could still want her plan to work by leaving some clues behind) here’s yet another way of summarising what GD is doing… keeping in mind that my premise is that she acts like a ‘mother’.
The deity who loves all humanity, good and evil alike, finds paradoxically that her ‘offspring’, MM, hates all humanity. MM in all arrogance and righteousness, cannot find even one individual whom he considers beautiful, pitiable or special. He also harbours a great resentment that he is alone, constantly abandoned, forced to serve humanity whom he despises and is angry that no one can love him (he says they only want him to use him, or they resent him or fear him). Hence GD’s experiment to teach MM to grow away from his anger and self-centred point of view, by bringing him into the life of one human being who is his antithesis. What a lesson he has to learn, as he comes to care for at least 1 other person besides himself and GD, who is everything he isn’t.
So we are likely watching a flawed deity’s trial and error parenting in progress LOL (I wish we could check our theory with Writer-nim). What a pedestrian way to deconstruct this show!
“… a flawed deity’s trial and error parenting in progress…” OMG @GB, this is so awesome on so many levels 🤣. I think I’m going to order this on t-shirts for my kids!! 🤣🤣
Hi Cleopatra. I thought I answered this but can’t see it.
Regarding Cha feeling pity and pity turning to love, I think I wrote clumsily, so I’ve made an edit:
I had the impression that Cha felt pity at first. I believe he was surprised that his reaction afterwards didn’t include such emotions as exasperation, impatience and scorn. Those would have been more normal for him. Instead, his attention was caught and he felt attraction.
Why might he feel scorn towards Ji-an when he first encountered her? I think that seeing her sitting crying in the rain for hours over someone who wasn’t worthwhile might have seemed foolish to him. His character isn’t one to suffer fools. He felt pity and attraction and it still puzzled him so many years later when DK asked him if he ever fell in love with someone he hated. He replied, ‘No. I’ve kissed someone I hated though…I hated her because I pitied her but I ended up kissing her because I pitied her.’
I really liked that scene because the honesty, rapidity and oddness of his response meant that Ji-an is on his mind.
@vasilia and @GB, if those T-shirts are ever made, I would like one, too. 😊
Kalimera everyone!
@GB, your phrase is so brilliant! I think we should make our DAYS community that T-Shirt! I am in myself!
#DAYS logo placed in the heart.
Below: “… a flawed deity’s trial and error parenting in progress…”
I wish we had someone designing it for us!
P.S. Here is a treat. I found this DAYS edit by MsSweetSerialKiller!
“It is soft and warm” as Lee DAm said to Mr. Fox in My Roommate is a Gumiho!
Enjoy!
Dear @Fern,
I understand why do you like that scene.
To be honest with you, I believe that Na Ji Na should stay alone and found another male lead. I don’t think that any of them are suitable for her.
One of them lied to her and ghosted her like a coward.
The other one played God and contributed to the misunderstanding.
Na Ji Na should love herself first and just find someone that doesn’t have the looks or the character, but both. They are both toxic for her, but that is my opinion.
Still, in this drama-verse, we can see that, she will choose Cha.
Dear Everyone, and @vasilisa the T-shirt is a wonderful idea. LOL. It would be our inside joke and ticket to an exclusive DAYS club where we enjoy cool drinks while we do beach chair (as opposed to ‘armchair’) drama deconstructing on make believe Jeju Beaches. What a hoot it would be. It’s actually possible since we are able to organise ourselves into live rewatch parties eventhough we are all over the globe.
@Fern, yes I believe you’ve read Cha right. He started out pitying NJN, but somehow did not forget her. I felt that it could have been because:
1) he was the mentor and he was ‘messing’ with his student’s girl, so she would have been unforgettable.
2) I’ve said this twice before … he must have been attracted to her from the start because he could have found another way to make her go away, other than kiss her. Kissing as a chase away measure, is pretty drastic to me!! My belief is that he’d seen her hanging around, knew the situation with Lee, knew that Lee was not good for her and pitied her for that. He’d also been attracted to her so that when she sadly complained that she’d never even had a kiss with Lee, he took his chances and stole the kiss (naughty boy!)
3) I think he would have liked to have not pitied her, but to have been in the position to date her himself. Cha was fed up with her hankering after Lee who was such a loser. He didn’t think it wise for them to stick to each other, and like a ‘parent,’ took matters into his own hands to keep them apart. He was also probably conflicted because with his attraction to NJN, he would have suspected that his motives might not have been pure.
He probably hated her because he hated himself for liking her, pitying her, and for making that decision to separate them. On top of that, because of the loyalty code among guys, he could not even take steps to win her over to himself.
All in all, whether he admits it or not, any exasperation he felt, might have been directed more at himself. But you’re right, his attention had been caught and she remained on his mind.
@Cleo thanks for the link to the Video Clip. That was some AWESOME editing done by MSSK. She found the dialogues where the words were repeated, or the scenes with similarities and brought them together. She even cut and placed the dialogue over different shots where they made sense. What a lot of thought and work went into that 4:40 minutes clip!
Hey my lovely @GB,
I vote for that t-shirt to make it happen! 😀
You are welcome, I came across it and I thought it was too pretty for us not to watch it!
By the way, the Episode titles are:
Ep 11 – A Date with Myul Mang
Ep 12 – The Forgotten Ones
😉
Here is my design contribution to our #DAYS community.
I tried my best! lol
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oKAiD4zPJb8C0Ak-AsUY2BI3phBvrypx/view?usp=drivesdk
Hi! Just dropping by to say I’m still
following you guys 🙂 I thought It’s a good thing that i watch DAYS while it’s still airing because if I binge watch this series, the likelihood of me dropping it would be much higher. Watching each episode takes a lot of mental work! But that was before I stumbled upon this thread and read all your brilliant insights which also saved me a lot of research btw. Hehe. You guys are amazing..all of you. I’m actually looking forward to your comments more than the upcoming episodes. I wish I can join the fun discourse but I’m not sure if I can articulate them beautifully like you do. So I hope you don’t mind a silent lurker on your threads 🙋♀️ I truly appreciate you all. Thank You.🙏
LOL @Cleo. Thanks! I like it. You chose the egg shape for the Show’s logo. Which is appropriate because the words together and outlined offer an oval outline.
We could maybe also have another version with a butterfly motif or joined hand-in-hand motif since this show has so much hand-holding. 🙂
Hi Lei, welcome to BOD and to this thread. Certainly you can lurk, however we’d love for you to do what you’ve just done and pop in now and then to say ‘Hi!’. You don’t have to be eloquent or write long posts. Any thoughts that you’d like to share will be welcome too!
I’m glad you’ve enjoyed reading us. That’s the aim really, to have fun with a community while watching a show that gets us discussing it avidly. I hope to see you popping up again!
Hey @GB!
I am glad you liked it!
I wanted to make it a heart but it was not showing right so, I chose the oval instead.
Yes, we need to find a Nabi.
Do you remember if we have seen any!? 🤔🧐
I don’t recall such a scene…
As for holding hands there are plenty of scenes to choose one!
Hey @Lei,
Welcome on board! As @GB said, you can post anytime!
We will be waiting for your thoughts!
@Cleo, there was no actual butterfly shown, except in the animated opening credits. It was mentioned only in the talk between GD and MM. Any generic butterfly shape would be fine.
The other image we get is that of the garden of flowers. However that does not go so clearly with a parenting image.
A better image, actually is that of Geppetto with Pinocchio where he is a puppet. GD is trying to manipulate her ‘child’ like a puppet. And MM is resentful because he feels he has little choice, but to destroy, even when he does not want to. He goes to GD to ask if she did anything to him, ie did she pull his strings.
On her part, GD probably does not see herself as Geppetto but as the fairy who helps Pinocchio grow into a real boy. 😉
Kalimera my lovely @GB,
I vote for the last one. There is a Fairy and Pinocchio scene we can use.
Still, I am not into Photoshop, I just found an online site that you can add a picture and I played around a bit.
🙂
Hi @Cleo, great idea for the t-shirt. Not that you have to take the trouble to do up the design, but which is the Fairy and Pinocchio scene you have in mind?
@Cleo and Everyone
Here’s another reaction video from the Korean girls to Episodes 9 and 10. They are a hoot to watch. I was laughing so much.
And the great thing I got from this was a double confirmation that when Dong Kyung was called Dong Kyung-ah by MM (as opposed to Tak Dong Kyung), it demonstrated the significant change in their relationship, their intimacy and his wanting to be part of her life, so that her defenses broke down and she admitted her real feelings at last. Calling her familiarly, like family, was the ‘straw’ that finally broke her silence and got her to be honest.
Hey my lovely @GB,
I am going to work on it and I will come back with you okay?
As for that “Dong Kyung-ah” I wrote it down on my trascription, because it reminded me that Dalmi-ya!
I thought it was important! I am glad we got the validation we needed from the Korean girls! I have to watch those videos and come back!
Hey everyone,
I finally caught up with the last two episodes. Before I read your comments 😊, I thought I would jot down my fresh thoughts. The highlight for me is the date of HK and NJN. Like the food in the restaurant no longer tastes as good for NJN now, feelings from memories do not live up to present. NJN keeps referring HK as an athlete. HK remembers only what she used to like and not know her present habits. I think they are quite ready to move on. The love from their youth has passed the expiry date. So, the memories from the first love may seems unresolved, to preserve that nostalgic sentiment, it may be best left it behind in the past.
Is recurring fate a popular theme these days? I remember in our comments/discussions we guessed there would be a reset. Here we go again. Let’s see how they can regain their memories in the next episode. I guess the theme here is that pain, comes along with love is unavoidable. People who love each other will choose to love each other and go through the pain again.
OK let me read your comments now 😊
@Viva You’ve made good points there.
I feel that NJN and Lee are at the stage where their teenage romance is to get its closure. The problem was that instead of ending it properly with understanding and acceptance, Lee ran away. You’re right in calling it ‘unresolved’. It’s only because of this lack of closure that NJN is uncertain if there could have been something to work with, which would have maintained the relationship. They will need to realise that mere attraction based on looks will not be enough to see them through. I hope that they exercise a clear letting go and come to see each other as acquaintances.
You said:
I feel that when a theme or series of words/actions recur, the Show is pointing out something to pay attention to. That’s why @Cleo and I have been mentioning that some words keep getting repeated, like ‘run away’, and when something happens with the secondary characters it’s likely that they will be mirroring or showing a parallel trajectory with the main characters.
So you’re right, there’s a trial dating and a reset with the main characters, and NJN also gets to choose to try things out with Lee again.
It’s likely that among the themes and sub-themes of living authentically, dying well, figuring out what love is, being at peace with one’s lot (Doom hated his life) and being able to grow in compassion and real care for life, the idea that no matter what, we should still choose to love, will be raised. 😉
Finally caught up with ep 11 and 12 including reading this thread. Whew! I want to say that I agree with the conclusion made here and would like a tshirt pls! LOL! BTW, we should change the title of DAYS as “Do-over, at your service”!
Poor OTP, another do-over. Hopefully 3rd time is a charm since you are running out of time. This “meet cute” and succeeding encounters and conversations seem more organic than before. They bicker like an old married couple unknowingly. The plant is revived at the end of ep12.
The 2nd pair is clearly becoming a known triangle. The 1st date of go-back couple (also another do-over in a sense) is very telling how their knowledge of each other was aged-old. It was painful to watch how this realization is sinking in. 1 out of 3 dates – 3rd time’s a charm, too maybe? I hope not, I’m #teamCha.
Mr Cha did a confession but did NJN get it? DK and her brother see that she likes him. Subconsciously she does but she can’t admit to that yet. He is the new ML is her story. They had some do-over with umbrella – I’m waiting for the do-over kiss!
Happy Sunday. hope I’ll be at pace with you all on the new eps.
@Janey
That’s a good one! “Do-over at your Service” is becoming a more appropriate title!! That’s GD offering her free services ad nauseam or until she ‘dies’, whichever happens first.
I was diligently trying to figure out the before and after trajectory (if that’s the right word) of our OTP’s “yes-together” – “no-not-together” / push and pull dynamics from Ep 8. Strictly speaking, of the Resets where:
1] MM got kicked out, then
2] DK got kicked out and
3] they both forget each other,
… only 3 was a ‘real reset’, ie the memories were more or less wiped.
1] and 2] were just ‘Mummy GD’ teaching MM how to grow to become a real boy and then an adult (as per the Pinocchio tale, in the book she pointedly left open at that page for him to read). So she didn’t wipe memories yet, and MM did benefit from realising what it meant to him that DK disappeared, and to make both of them aware, what it might mean to DK that his existence brought grief into her experiences. Finding out that DK loves MM enough to accept him as the purveyor of both the beginning and the end of things, and the bringer of rain, that is necessary too, gave GD, MM and DK their valuable lesson. I’ll call it their ‘Love Lesson 101’. GD had to learn that lesson too… she admitted to MM that she was wrong, that DK does love him.
One might argue that making them forget kind of negates the lessons that GD wanted to teach. I’m thinking that number 3] was not a lesson but more to help DK instead of MM. GD, being the deity who loves humanity, did not turn her back on DK who asked for help. She helped in the way she could or in the way she thought to be wisest, to minimise the pain that DK and MM would experience from a separation.
At the same time, I feel that because of ‘Love Lesson 101,’ GD also put in place, or left in place, enough vague memories and emotional memories to help get MM and DK back together, in a more organic way, as you say. From ‘Love Lesson 101’, it became apparent that when she had made DK and MM for each other, their Fate was inextricably intertwined, and they would get together with minimal interference from herself, even at drastic Reset 3]. And so, the plant gets revived remarkably quickly.
I suppose the symbol of true success with that plant is that it grows bigger and the flower blooms. We have another 3-4 episodes for them to work on this. Unlike netizens who are frustrated by the to and fro of this couple, I feel that this will be so much fun: watching them fall in love again, despite themselves!! This is the love story I came to watch. The first 12 episodes were just prologue LOL.
Yes, I love watching the love triangle that is and isn’t with our 2nd leads. You’ve got a point that the 3 dates are also Do-overs 1 – 3. I’ve always felt that Cha was the interfering ‘deity’ in this triangle.
1. He lied to NJN 9 years earlier when he said Lee was in Japan.
2. He took advantage of her vulnerability and kissed her.
3. He offered himself as the new male lead and entered her personal orbit (her apartment!).
4. He hid from her as long as he could, that he and Lee knew each other.
It was like he’d done Reset 1] and 2] with NJN and Lee as well, by keeping them apart from each other, but in the end he has to let go and let NJN decide. I guess… that is also a kind of Reset 3] without the memory wipe. Instead, NJN and Lee discover that their memories are nothing much to cling on to. All those memories of lingering feelings or hurt or longing, probably dissipate when they meet up face to face … that’s more powerful than Reset 3]!!! LOL.
I’m thinking that she’s in denial, but that she very clearly heard him say that he’s prepared to either steal her from Lee or be in an unrequited love. The ball is in her court. She has to go through her 3 dates, maybe, and make up her mind.
Watching NJN decide that she is indeed in love with interfering Cha will be a hoot as well. 😉
@GB – wonderful addition and details to the do-overs!!! Thank you. ❤️❤️❤️
Thank YOU @Janey. It’s because you shared your thoughts that it gave me the ideas to write what I did. It wouldn’t have occurred to me, I believe, until I read what you wrote. This is the joy of community sharing and discussion (and why I humbly ask all commentors to sometimes make a PEEP.)
I’m glad we cottoned on to the Do-over motif. We can probably see more parallels as we go along. ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
✧♡( ु•⌄• )♡✧
Hey my lovely @GB,
Great points over here!
Thank you @Janey as well for your contribution!
<3
@Cleo, thanks for sharing your knowledge on philosophy. It is a very interesting read.
@nrllee and @Fern, I also enjoyed watching the second lead couple. I like Cha’s response about staying as one-sided love and the giving her the umbrella scene.
@GB, @Cleo, isn’t it interesting that Park Young remembers the details? Whereas other people around DK cannot remember the reference of the boyfriend. Also, why Human’s number is in DK’s phone still? I share the same thought as per @vasilisa. This is very Goblin like, from memory, Eun Tak also wrote down she was Goblin’s bride but she couldn’t make sense of her writing later on.
I also agree with you @GB that GD wants them to fall in love without the conditions of the contract.
I felt that the show makes us think – Dying is not that bad. Doom is not that bad. It’s part of life and makes us treasure our time with our loved one. Without the bitterness of Doom, we would not be able to appreciate the sweetness of love in life. And it’s also about the GD’s trial and error parenting in progress 😊
Catch you all later!
Hey @Viva,
I am glad you enjoyed it! You are welcome!
As I have said above, I believe that since the deity girl is about to die, her reset was not absolutely successful.
So, some of them remember some of the clues, that will bring them again together, since their Fate is to be together. I also believe that Park Young will write their doom and gloom story. It remains to be seen, If I am correct.
Since the Writer-nim Im Meari was Kim Eun Sook’s writing assistant it is obvious that she is familiar with her work and has been influenced by it, especially from Goblin and TK:EM. The thing is that she made a new world where she is using known tropes.
Let us see how she will end this story, shall we?