The thread is now open for spoilers, discussions, and analyses.
Gifs from chanikang’s tumblr:
I like this actor Song Kang, but at the moment, Jang KiYong’s Mr. Fox is more my style.
Enjoy the show!
40 Comments On “Nevertheless: Open Thread”
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After watching the first two episodes I’ve decided to hang this one up. Although I can’t pinpoint exact reason why, it leaves me feeling too unsettled. I love kdrama because I love the wide range of emotions it makes me feel since I’m usually a closed off person. However, I’ve no desire to open up this anxious feeling. ✌🏻
I will like to check in on this thread just to see how things are playing out though.
I don’t have time to watch this drama for now, but it’s on my watchlist.
The pitch look good and I like the main actress. 😉
I was interested in finding out about the webtoon on which this is based. SPOILER ALERT: I don’t think this “romance” will go Na-Bu’s way. I’m in this for the ride. For K Dramas, it’s pretty erotic-given its rating. I like the female lead. I didn’t see World of The Married, where she won an award. Her performance here is understated as I think it should be. And Song Kang had me at Navillera(The man is giving us lots of butterflies). What is disconcerting to me at my age is that all of these actors save the grandpa roles could be sons or grandsons(think Cha Seung Won).Does this make me a dirty old lady?
Getting back to the drama, I think it says a lot about reactions to failed romances. Heartbreak is a real thing and does have medical implications. It will be of interest to see how Na-Bi comes through. I am on her side, knowing the pain of failed relationships and faling for the charming. Perhaps it will be a lesson in finding love without the flash. There is also fun in looking at beautiful people. My prediction-I’ll be screaming at my TV at the finale.
Kalispera!
I started watching “Nevertheless” and I am enjoying it very much.
As I have written in another thread, there is a female director on board. The aeschetics are very airy. The vibes are hot and steamy.
I really like it, because it is realistic.
As @Janey said, it is contemporary romance, in a realistic view, I will add.
Some people find it exciting, others not. I can understand.
It is okay to like modern fairytales, but we have to understand that it is okay to be able to watch what is really happening in human relationships.
Especially when you are in the university in your early 20s, people tend to experiment with several things.
We need to know in order to be careful or as my Management Professor told us in our of his Lectures and I still remember it:
“Fairytales hide a warning. You need to be afraid of the big bad wolf.”
So, who is the big bad wolf in this modern world? If we come across one, are we going to be afraid of him?
Or
Are we going to be excited by him and do whatever it takes to have this thrilling feeling by being next to him? Becoming voluntarily its prey?
What do we really want from a sexual partner?
What do we really want from ourselves?
Aspects like that are a taboo in some societies. Yet, young people are trying to finding answers.
As we grow older, we learn by our mistakes.
We learn why we are attracted by certain people.
We learn and if we are wise enough, then we start to avoid them.
If not, we will continue to date them and we will be hurt every single time, until we find the strenght to stop doing so.
So, yes I get why these series has mixed comments.
We don’t like to see the mirror of truth right in front us.
Those that say: “I wouldn’t be in such a position / relationship “, are most of the times, prone to be in one. Sometimes, smart people fall for stupid things.
The thing is to realize that big bad wolves are around us.
You have to decide who are you going to be, how are you going to treat your significant other and try to accept yourself, your decisions and your life in general.
As I wrote few hours ago…
“Je ne regrette rien” > “Δεν μετανιώνω για τίποτα.”
I am curious if it will depart from the webtoon. Spoiler alert: the relationship shakes her confidence in herself and makes her suspicious of other men so it is heartbreaking in that way. The “nevertheless” is she knew he was trouble but nevertheless…. It’s also sad that she goes from a manipulative relationship with an older man when she was 19 to a maybe toxic relationship with a play boy.
Started watching this last week and I have mixed feelings… partly because I’ve been in a similar relationship in the past. 😅
Initial thoughts…
– Song Kang is hot! And the role fits him. Didn’t like him much in Love Alarm and I haven’t seen his other dramas.
– Deliberately did not watch World of Married (to avoid stress) but I am curious about the actress and hoping this drama will not give me anxiety.
– How can Nabi kiss Song Kang right after he made out with one of their classmates in the dark alley?! Yuck!!! 😂
– There’s so much tension between Sol and Jiwan. Sooo obvious they are into each other. Too bad the coffee guy is cute but looks like Sol is oblivious and is just being kind to him.
– What does butterfly symbolizes? Super curious on the back story and the girl from the airport who seems like an ex but Song Kang considers his fate. Ugh! What a player!
Nevertheless, can’t wait for the next episode this weekend.
Song Kang is a good bad boy. He is a player. And Nabi’s voice over says it all. She is walking into the lion’s den. Her last boyfriend was a creep, but at least here, she’ll get some hot sex. Just hope she gets these guys out of her system. I think this drama will make us voyeurs (your fault Song Kang). To be honest, I’m hooked.
I watched a few episodes. I also am wondering if it will depart from the webtoon. Also, I’m wondering who, between Jae Eon and Na-bi, is ultimately the butterfly? Will their roles reverse? Will they learn from their relationship?
@cleopatra
I agree that modern fairytales aren’t necessarily real life and I’m glad a show like Nevertheless exists for that reason. I think the actors are doing a great job and I find the story very intriguing.
Personally, I enjoy watching dramas of all types for enrichment and/or shallow viewing pleasure.
I think this particular show won’t work for me because while I’m past the age range of the characters I can still identify with how real it is. I find it especially uncomfortable because I dread the day when my children are in that age range. I feel like I might be doing a bit of ostriching and I’ll cross that bridge when I get there. I also think it’s producing more anxiety because I don’t know where it’s headed. Perhaps once it’s finished airing and I find out the ending, I’ll be able to watch and glean some wisdom to file away.
I do hope you all continue the discussion here so I can read your thoughts and glean from you all as well.
Same with u, unnie!
For a moment, jangkiyong is hot trend.
I love mr pox 🦊
Finished watching ep 4. But the story keep pushing nabi to think her relationship with jae eon is wrong, even ppl arround her think same.
So i prefer nabi with her childhood friend. If jae eon still act like that, and doesnt change.
Jae eon is cute, i want to know more about him, but he still draw line with nabi……😈
I got drawn in by the first episode. The contrast of Na-bi in white and all the other visitors at the gallery were in black. Plus the sculpture of her was in white. That stood out powerfully because it contrasted with how different she is from the rest of the people.
The other part that captured me was how her ex-bf’s face was hardly shown in full profile. It was usually a side view or a back, sometimes just his eyes, or his nose or mouth as he speaks. It is as if he is not revealing part of his true self, hiding a part of himself from her. I thought those parts of cinematography was captivating and it drew me in.
I am essentially curious of what will happen to both of them. She is stuck in a very confused state between her rational self and emotional self. And it has become very hard to say no to a guy who could press all the right buttons and say the right things.
@Grace – another way to show that the ex-BF was shady!
I mentioned in another thread that I am curious to compare and contrast this with the “sanitized” kdramas we normally see.
The other aspect that I am watching for is how Nabi will recover from her gaslighting experience with ex BF. I wished she reported this guy especially with the sculpture she did not consent to be displayed. She only ended the relationship when there was a 3rd party involved. TBH, she was a doormat in this relationship but there’s also power dynamics involved so it’s messy. One thing is for sure is that the guy was scum.
She feels like her character judgment is off and her self confidence is shaken, even her school work is not at its best. she thought the junior guy was nice and normal but he turned out to be an opportunist and insincere. And then here is Jae Eon who seem to care about her (calling 911 and taking care of her when she was sick) and so she succumbed to the attraction. Will she continue this cycle of “.toxic” relationships? She doesn’t seem happy with being alone either. It will be interesting to see how she will grow from these experiences as a person and an artist. Will she metamorphose like the Nabi she is named for?
I hope Song Kang will also mature here. He said he has to set his butterflies free – hmm foreshadowing on Nabi?
@Birdie – I have a daughter soon to be in her twenties so it’s scary to think of them in situations like these. Good topic for discussion though once they are of age on how to take note for red flags on toxic relationships and have a healthy sense of self. We often watch movies together and dissect the characters especially the male ones (we diss a lot of them Hahaha).
@Janey, Such good points. This drama brings visceral feels to identifying toxic relationships. Check off all of the controlling behavior that the ex and Jae eon engage in and you have a road map for avoidance. Today’s young women have it all the more bad because of social media. This drama showed how rumor affects reputation. Many are besmirching Nabi’s reputation, e f en though they know how Jae eon operates. I think in so many cultures the women are easily labeled bad girls. It is very disconcerting.
I am a child of the sixties, and lived through 5he sexual revolution of the time. I remember that I couldn’t wait to lose my virginity. Most of my friends did not have a good first experience. For most, it was at best mechanical.i was lucky when it happened because it was the week-end before I graduated with a faculty member who knew what he was doing. He asked me out again but I said no because I knew I didn’t have the emotional fortitude for it. I did it because I thought U’d never have a chance to do it again. I didn’t use birth control and for the better part of a month and a half feared unwanted pregnancy. I was lucky again because I had I irregular periods. In retrospect I acted recklessly (the guy actually carried the overweight and unconfident me to bed). But I think it was almost like I was checking off a bucket list item. That’s how young people lack judgment. I was 21.
Korean freshmen are 20 years old. They are older than American college students and have been through the grueling academic pressure to get in that also involves cram schools. My impression is that they are ill-eqipped for social relationships, judgmental and immature. Nabi fits this and has the added problem of having at least one horrible role model;her mother. My sympathies are c with her. I just hope that in the end she is not poorly judged.
I am not looking for Jae eon to be redeemed. He has been the cause of a lot of damage. If there is a higher power he needs to spend lots of atonement time. I think most of the damaged young women are faultless like Nabi.
Hi @OAL! Thanks for candidly sharing your experience. We are influenced by our times but I agree that women continue to bear the brunt of judgement on these types of relationships, even made more vulnerable by social media in today’s world.
I am not judging Jae eon yet if he is good or bad egg. The bad egg was the ex BF gaslighted, for sure!!! He may be too friendly, keep options open, no commitment type of guy but these may be impressions and rumors also because of how he looks and how he interacts with girls. we will have to see how he is with a relationship with Nabi.
Because she doesn’t trust him she is very guarded so she pushes him away at certain points. I think it leaves ambiguous as to what would happen if she allowed herself to be more vulnerable? In some ways I wish she went all in because it would force him to be clear one way or another. Right now she is the one who is rejecting him in small ways and understandably to protect her heart. It’s a bit of a toxic stew. I know that kdramas portray a certain prudishness but would a college student really be labeled in this manner irl for sleeping with a charming boy even if he is a player?
Hi @Janey, Based on my reading about the webtoon on which this is based I don’t have a good feeling about him.Nabi is also narrating this drama and I think she is retelling this story in the future. When she started sleeping with him she said something to the effect of entering hell. I think this is a cautionary tale that she doesn’t leave unscathed
I hope I am wrong The writers could also change the adaptation but right now I’m thinking not.
For those of us in western traditions, women have always been wrong. After all were it not for Eve we:f be in the Garden of Eden.
I want to see how this is played out. It won’t be long, it’s ten episodes.
Hello everyone! I was intrigued with the hype so I check it out for myself.
3 episodes later and I decided to shelve it because like @birdie007, there’s a reason I can’t exactly put into words. Jae eon is a walking red flag and cautionary tale, the visuals is beautiful but the central theme is familiar. I realize that this is a contemporary romance, young adults coursing through life outside their parental homes and their sexual explorations..and I no longer feel I belong to the same demographic.
However, I watched episode 4 last night and I spotted a good egg. Nabi’s childhood friend, the actor from Sisyphus. I’m a wuss for nice guys! Choi Taek in Reply1988 made nice guys worth spazzing for me again! I hope his character shall serve as a foil to highlight Jae eon’s deficiencies as a man. And if he continues to be a good one throughout the show, I want Nabi to end up with him if Jae Eon don’t get his acts together.
Also, I like that Nabi was straightforward enough to ask Jae eon if he has sexually transmitted disease, this show is bravely experimental for touching stigmatizing topics like casual sex and std’s. I admire the show’s intention and the message they’re trying to impart to the younger generation so I guess I’ll be sticking around every Thursday night😊
@Lei – JaeSun actor from Sisyphus is also my reason for continuing to ep4. Glad to know he seems to be a good guy.
New episode drops on Sunday here. Now that we have a thread though, I plan to stick around. Thanks for joining the discussion!
i read on twitter, most ppl want nabi end up with songkang, bcs in the webtoon, nabi will end up with her childhood friend, a good man.
So far im not convince that jae eon will change 🤣
Esp the way he talk about butterflies that he doesnt want to let go, yet.
Sound like he cage nabi. 😑
I wish they change the ending, thats mean they have to change jae eon.
Dont make second guy appear to much, he is too good.
its make me want to compare them😑
@Janey it’s not Thursday but Saturday. ✌ New episode drops here every Saturday. Is Jaesun his name from Sisyphus? I haven’t watch it yet. Yes, I find him clumsy and cute..I’ll be rooting for him!i hope I didn’t spoil you though. Enjoy Episode 4!
I am 50% on board with watching this drama after it ends. I’ve seen tweets and videos exclaiming how Song Kang’s character is a walking red flag. And that Nabi is such a doormat they say.
To be honest I was not interested in watching this drama at all because I can’t relate much to the experiences shared (sexual/romantic relationships as what is mostly depicted in the drama from what I’ve seen so far) as someone who just got out of college. I only know 1 or 2 people who are sexually adventurous and the rest of us in college are focused on studying and working.
But our second lead guy right here, Chae Jonghyeop his name, makes me looking forward to this drama. I guess I have to wait a few more weeks, I think it’s best to watch this drama in one continuous go. Nevertheless, I’m gonna read future discussions here and see how the drama progresses.
I just watched episode 1 and I’m hooked.
The story is simple for now, and it’s slow paced, but in a good way.
It’s well rendered with many close-up, slow shot on eyes, expressions.
So we feel the tension, attraction, feelings. It go deep.
Main actress is bewitching, very pretty, and I like how she portray the character.
Main actor is good too. Many little steps and details.
I suppose things will get a bit less dreamy next. I’m curious. Anything can come in the story, if it’s depicted with this quality, should be captivating.
It make me think a bit about Love Alarm (not because it’s the same actor), but I can be involved far more in this. Again, we get an heroin passing her time questionning herself, lol ! Let’s see if she’s as nerve wrecking than the one in love alarm. 🙂
I still wonder some elements, how Na Bi is in this school ? From what she live ? Yes, making sculpture isn’t really what get you a future job. Look like she have a appartement. Who pay for that ? Same about other characters. It’s quite on-the-ground questions. 😉
I started watching this and there were a lot of times where my head kept saying ‘NO Nabi! No!’. 🤦🏻♀️😂
I’m watching it because there is a physical tension/connection between Nabi and Jae-eon but definitely the no commitment for me is definitely a BIG NO too. I’d never give this guy a chance if it were me. I grew up conservative and so I can’t relate to this type of relationship but still I want to see if Nabi will be able to find the right guy for her. I’m eyeing Do-hyeok! Yes! I’m rooting for him too. This is the first time I want the SML to be with the FL. ☺️
Hi @PM3! I was looking for this thread in the list of postings but it was uncategorized. Can you pls put a “Nevertheless” category so it’s easy to find it? Thanks so much (with virtual cookies). 🍪 🍪 🍪
I’m watching it for the same interest as @Agdr03. someone posted that in the webtoon, Nabi ended up with her childhood friend. However, his screen time so far is limited so there may be a change
In the storyline? I’d like to see how it unfolds.
Will watch ep5 today,… will the breakup hold?
Done, @Janey. 🙂
Episode 5 summed up: “Nabi, you in danger girl!”
Taking it from @Goodtwin…
Ep. 6 summary: “here’s a good guy for you, Nabi”.
Ep. 7 summary: “Uh-oh, here we go again…”
@Janey, This is one drama where I think nobody wants to see a kiss scene with the two leads and most are hoping that the second male lead wins out.
I feel For Nabi. She has been taken by the bad boy again. You take someone on the rebound from a bad relationship and pay her some attention, know her weaknesses and who gets blamed in the end but the poor girl, whose head is messed up to begin with. And when the guy looks like Song Kang…
I don’t think Nabi is intentionally hurting her childhood friend as so many are accusing her. My take on her is that Jae=on is an addiction that’s hard to break when the guy is such a manipulator. We just know we’re watching a train wreck in the ma,ING.
Let’s hope Nabi gets out of it with non lif threatening jnjuries.
@Janey 😂. @OAL – agreed. He it catnip to her and they have great chemistry as portrayed on the show. I think she will have to engage in this dance with him a couple of times before she decides it is a toxic relationship. The show is departing from the webtoon a bit. In the webtoon, he pursues a dating relationship with Seoula (sp) and Nabi says something to her that causes her to end the relationship. Here it seems to suggest that Jae-on is interested in dating Nabi. BUT this is why he is so manipulative. He presents it all as her decision. So she is the one who has to compromise and accept less than if she wants to be with him. He hasn’t said he wants her to be his girlfriend and that he won’t date other women. That’s why he is toxic for her and probably addictive as well because he is letting her know he wants to be with her but he is not saying what that means to him. With regard to the childhood friend – I don’t think Nabi has done anything to him. People are disappointed in love all the time. He knows that there is something going on between Nabi and Jae-on. Just because he is a nice guy and smitten doesn’t mean she has to date him.
Thank you @ Good Twin, I dislike the Nabi haters. It seems to me that even in our relatively enlightened times, the woman/girl who falls for the bad boy while a good guy seems hurt by her choice gets blamed. You have seen Jae_on’s selfish manipulation purely for his pleasure. He is very aware of his impact on women. Look at how he zeroed inon childhood friend’s cousin. And it has now been established that he’s a rich boy, Maserati and all. It is my sincere hope that other women will give Nabi a break!!!
Episode 8 summary: nothing really happened or everything that happened the night before gets undone. Childhood friend confesses and Nabi rejects him. Next day he tells her something along the lines of he won’t take no for an answer (disapprove). Nabi proceeds to give him some mixed signals (also disapprove). Push pull with Jae-on continues. She is basically being stalked by two men. Second male lead who had a scandal irl is only shown blurred or part of his face as he and Bitna break up. Ji-wan forgets confession to Sol then remembers it but retreats. A series of reversals. Filler episode still leaving in doubt who Nabi will choose. (Choose yourself Nabi) And whether that relationship will be a happy one or one in which she has lingering doubts.
@Good Twin, this drama is about the lure of the bad boy. Many of us have been burned by the bad boy. The pain an be excruciating but if you get through it, you might end up l loving yourself. Here’s hoping Nabi gets through it and ends up as you said. Interesting detail is 5hatJae-on comes from wealth. His birthday gift is a Maserati(product placement,eh). Nabi and her friend don’t so their world views are different. Nabi is not sophisticated the way Jse-on is with a famous mother, security-so he can collect people and butterv,butterflies, He doesn’t know or care about everyday survival. Note-Nabi takes thebusback to campus. She rides around her town in an o ld bike. She has a nice place to live e but it belongs to her aunt. Jae-on is no prince and Nabi 2on’t be Cinderella.
I’m hate to admit that I would like Nabi to redeem this bad boy. In the webtoon Nabi ends up as the one wounded. She rejects J but then can’t trust her childhood friend bcs she is affected by her toxic relationship with Jae-on.
I pursunly want her to end up with her childhood friend i just watched eposide 8. Hes nice to her and when something bad in their relationship he doesn’t try to savle it with sex unlike jae-on. Jae-on also gives of the vibes of someone who always lies and is demed untust worthy. However if he some how later in the show starts to show more of his soft worid side for na-bi then maybe and the fact we know literly nothing about him is sus.
@ABC123, Just hoping Nabi gets through the inevitable pain of her unrelationship with Jae-eon, who may turn out to be just another selfish rich kid who can turn on the charm. I think Song Kang is a very charismatic actor and plays a villainous role quite well. I think we were all taken in by his charm, but ultimately he is a manipulative jerk. And I don’t care about his back story. He should not get away Scott free.
You won’t like the ending, but the series is realistic. Some people cannot pull away from toxic relationships or people.
I wonder if they plan on making a S2. Toward the end, Nabi is walking hand in hand w/ Jae-eon and she spots Do-Hyeok in a cafe. She pulls her locked fingers away from Jae-eon’s; only for him to reel her back in. I read that in the webtoon series Nabi and Do-Hyeok were suppose to end up together.
@JohnL, the ending to me was almost satisfying but not quite. NaBi and Jae on are not only defined by their love life, but also by their work,NaBi was in an artistic slump throughout the drama and found her footing after her original sculpture was destroyed. She was able to create something superior with Jae-on’s help, gaining new skills in metal work. In this regard he is a true colleague and partner. As far as the romance goes, it would not be unheard of for them to grow closer after intensely working together. I also feel the script was flipped at the end with jae-on showing his nerdiness for NaBi while she was actually forward.
What is left up on the air are our lovers future plans. Jae-on got an exchange program but NaBi didn’t
However her professor agreed that she should go to Paris. I would imagine we could have a future.drama with a reunion of the two and ask.about ifll they have had professional success, complicated by physical separation and possible intervening relationships. .
@JL in the WEBTOON she ends up with Do-Hyeok but as he becomes increasingly popular because of his YT channel Nabi starts to become paranoid because of all the attention he gets. She starts distrusting him – all as a result of her toxic relationship with Jae-on (and also likely her first boyfriend too). So even though he is a good guy she starts to sabotage the relationship. Jae-on destroyed Nabi’s confidence by leading her on only to pull back aggressively in order to get revenge on her because he was angry about what Nabi said to his girlfriend Seola. The WEBTOON was bleak.
I liked the ending of the drama. I wish Jae-on would have declared himself more loudly. Also wtf the professor who told her to watch out about getting a reputation earlier then at the end told Nabi to do what she wants. I agree that Nabi should do what she wants – she’s an artist in her early 20s after all! But the professor’s earlier comments are part of the reason Nabi felt she couldn’t be with Jae-on. I thought the drama was filmed beautifully, great leads, good and evocative soundtrack and much different from the typical K-drama.
Jae-on has grown as a human being, released his butterflies and in the end, sees Nabi as more than a conquest but as an artist colleague. Nabi, who has always been self-aware but whose confidence has been shaken by her despicable ex and Jae-on does become a stronger person and owns up to her true feelings to her childhood friend who she does not lead on. We see the temporary temptation in the hand holding scene, but is shown to think better of it. Ergo, she does not become a female, version of the old Jae-on.
We may still have questions about her relationship with Jae-on, but we can see her becoming more self-respecting and for me, that’s real progress.
My final thought is that as a whole, this is a drama I would rewatch, enjoying the character growth and bumps in the road. They also did a nice job with the secondary characters. I was so happy to see that they were not caricatures. I definitely loved the leads although I would not like to think of our female lead in The Workd of the Married ( even if she won an award for that role).
I was disappointed that JH didn’t end up with Nabi but I get that part too where if you like him, you like him, if you don’t, you don’t.
I’m not sure if their relationship will last but this is what I’m taking from this drama.
https://youtu.be/nqDgqusxs3Y
Nevertheless.