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Let’s enjoy the show.
43 Comments On “You Are My Spring: Eps 5 & 6 Open Thread”
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The thread is now open for spoilers, analyses, and discussions.
Gifs from liveasbutterflies’ tumblr
Let’s enjoy the show.
Comments are closed.
Yay! Thank you, pm3!🤍
Excited for this week’s episodes! Cannot wait to learn more about the “twins” and see more of the development between our leads!
Ahh I really like episode 5. Is it just me or this episode was really sweet? (Of course not to mention seeing another cop get stabbed, is he dead? I hope he won’t 😖).. We finally see the flashback and that JYD and DJ were once connected. And there we know the origination of that lollipop candy, YD’s signature gift for the ones in need.
Thank you so much dear @GB for your mini recaps on the previous episodes. Also for the explanation in opening credit animations. I like your note about YD being a human side mirror. He is indeed the side mirror for DJ.. they’ve been closer than what they expected.
Why do I had a feeling that Ian Chase has already in Korea before the date he checked in the hotel where DJ works at. It’s just the flashback in 2003 when Ian Chase met his twin after years of separation, seems eerie for me.
IC: Don’t forget how far I went for you. A shadow.. shouldn’t covet the light. Because it’ll vanish.
If there is someone between them who has a personality disorder (not just a sociopath, but a psychopath because his crime was covered really smooth), I think it must be the “Ian Chase” who left for the USA.
I’m not really sure what happened 12 hours ago before this conversation, but it seems that they both exchange the clothes (which what @011sn said could be in line with it, in 1994 they might exchange their clothes and pretended to be each other). The one who goes inside the house was Ian Chase and the guy who seems drunk mistakenly address him as JeongMin. I don’t think that this guy is mentioned in the Suicide Letter of Jeong Min though.. Is he another victim? But I think “Ian Chase” killed him accidentally, he seems to have been fallen and hit his head with sharp wood or something. But we see when the guy wanted to reach his phone, “IC” run and got it first, he let him die on purpose.. The real JeongMin was outside and peeking through a window. He was shocked I think.
So much to discuss so little time. Will be back to read your comments and analysis..
Much thanks @pkml3 for a new thread for Ep 5 and 6.
@jingangie and @moonstar512
Once again an episode that was enjoyable, funny, thought-provoking, full of backstory and info that pushes the plot forward. It also had warm and touching moments that made it sweet. So yes @moonstar it was really sweet!
You’re welcome @moonstar! It’s a pleasure to transcribe and give my thoughts when I know they are read. Knowing that you’re reading them gives me so much motivation!
You are right in that now we see more than ever how true it is that Ju YD is DJ’s side mirror. He’s much closer than he appears in more than one way. They had unknowingly made a childhood connection (so refreshing in that they didn’t even meet each other, but both touched each other’s hearts with the warmth of the signs they left behind!!) and although officially they are not a couple, by their sharing their thoughts and experiences, they are closer than even ‘real’ couples.
I’m wondering if we can compare them to Ga Yeong and Patrick and to the lovey-dovey spoilt brat gf with over-indulgent bf couple. A great compare and contrast!
That 2003 flashback was really informative.
1) When he says “Don’t forget how far I went for you.” I ask … did he come all the way from the US to help the ‘twin’? And on top of that, to face the abusive ‘father’ on his behalf… and leave ‘father’ for dead? No, he was not mentioned in the suicide letter.
2) It means that when in the present he pretends not to know Jeong Min, that he is lying.
3) My questions that I’m hoping will be answered in time …How many times has Ian Chase traveled back to SKorea? Were the killings done by him or the ‘twin’ or by both of them at different times?
Yes, so many thoughts arise from this episode. I need to gather them to make some sense of what we’ve watched before the next episode!
I figure that odd numbered episodes may be filled with light and funny, but even numbered ones may have more that is scary or ominous and leave us on cliff hangers.
Oh and the show is still beautiful to watch with the consistent camerawork, that hides and reveals in bits. I wonder if they used a snow making machine for that last scene LOL.
Episode 5 and 6 random thoughts
I love how show gives us pointers in what to do under some situations, like how to help little children with the scenes of the unhappy and angry Aiden, or the boy with the torn Teddy Bear.
I like that show treats mental health in a respectful, informative and most hopeful way.
The parent and child relationship issue
I was struck by the fact that there are 3 (or 4?) sets of children with issues due to their parents.
Little Aiden in Hotel Child-minding Services was angry at being ‘abandoned’ at the hotel as his father went about his business, while his mother was away. I really liked how DJ consulted with Ju over Aiden’s drawings, and then made use of her penchant for re-interpreting stories (as she had done to comfort herself and her brother) to assure Aiden that he had been heard and understood. He didn’t need food, he needed an understanding person who’d acknowledge how he felt, and accepted it. Once he received the right kind of attention, he was happy and able to eat.
The boy with the Teddy Bear was upset because his bear had been torn and the stuffing was coming out, but he could not articulate his fears. Instead of fixing the bear, the mother wanted to fix her child. It’s so sweet that Ha Neul, the vet, fixed Teddy, and was himself so touched at the comfort this gave the little boy.
(This reminds me of how when I deal with little children, I always have to ask myself, not what I want them to do according to my schedule, but what it is that they need at that moment. It’s not to indulge them, but to meet a real need. After we are sensitive to their needs, we find quite often that the fractious child is cooperative and amenable.)
Perhaps not surprisingly, Jeong Min and Ian Chase who were both around that church in Christmas, 1994, were likely children at risk. Jeong Min who remained in Korea seems to have been abused by a ‘father’. Immediately this moves our ‘villain’ from being black into the grey. What he did was evil, but we start to want to understand why. He was perhaps not a mindless sociopath that turned into a killer. Maybe he started as a kid who was acting out, protecting himself or protecting someone else, because his issues had not been resolved, his pain had not been fixed, etc. As an adult, this way of fixing his life may have continued. As a person with ASPD, he’d be less remorseful if he killed, and being intelligent, he’d be able to continue to kill without being caught. (However we bear in mind that just because a person has ASPD, does not mean they will be criminals or killers, and that lots of criminals do not have ASPD.)
The other kids who came from a household with an abusive father were of course DJ and Tae Jung. Their mum had left the father in time, so that they had not been subject to physical harm. They were the more well adjusted of the kids, but DJ had not actually grown out of her habit of dating hopeless guys, while trying to fix them.
Ju Young Do’s relationship with his mum is not clear. She was in grief over the loss of his brother, but she was not able to or didn’t want to receive or give comfort to her other son, Young Do. I’d have thought a more natural thing was to have welcomed her remaining son who came to her at the funeral wake, or to comfort him too, but she turned away from him.
We need more backstory of Ju Young Do. According to the blurb on the show, he too is supposed to have issues … ” He is smart and looks into people’s wounded heart, but he also has a wounded heart. He has never been comforted by anyone.” So we wait to know how DJ helps Ju while he helps her.
The Childhood Connection
In my notes, I remarked on the patterns that DJ made. I noted that her mum made a heart shaped pattern with tangerine peel, but where DJ was concerned, she made crescent shapes or almost circle shapes with things on the ground like cigarette butts and dried leaves.
We see that she made the cigarette butts into a ring around a lone flower outside the hospital where JuYD’s brother’s funeral wake was. She turned trash into something pretty, that gave pleasure.
When Ju saw this, he augmented the concept by removing the butts, but replacing them with pebbles. DJ’s response to this was to leave the lollipop in the ‘flower bed’ as a sweet gift.
These 2 characters have in common, the ability to see the good that can be made out of something that is not obviously nice. DJ was a trash magnet who wanted to convert the ‘trash’ into good people, and Ju literally helps those with mental health issues to start transforming themselves.
And like @moonstar noted, we see the genesis of how lollipops came to be part of Ju’s first aid kit for stress. We see that as a child, he found and kept the lollipop with a smile, and that as an adult, he still indulged in one now and then. So unknowingly, both DJ and Ju had once comforted each other without ever meeting.
It becomes natural that as adults they continue to gravitate towards each other.
The Water Connection
Ju DJ and water. Their encounter with water in Ep 1. He turned on her shower and the water pressure was so great that the hose moved around looking like a snake. Ju fell and got wet and water got sprayed on DJ as well.
In Ep 5 at the beach in Nangjeung they both end up in the water because Mum pushed Ju. They splashed around in it trying to get up and to maintain their balance, while Mum looked on taking photos of them LOL.
They are connected by the water leak. The drips of the water are mysteriously coming from somewhere in between DJ’s floor and Ju’s ceiling, but the source of it cannot be found. The water flows quietly, pooled from somewhere, but when it drips, it makes a ‘plop!’ with impact and splash. Might this be saying something about their relationship?
I noted somewhere that Ju deliberately (in Ep 2?) decided not to bother to fix the leak… a strange decision, since water was dripping into his office/consultation room! He didn’t mind his patients seeing/hearing that dripping leak. I felt that the water drops were a sort of connection to DJ that he wanted to retain.
I mentioned before that there were scenes where the camera focused on water contained in glasses. There was a glass of water on the table of the mysterious person in a white coat (could be Ian Chase?) and the glass of water that fell and broke in DJ’s home, when she was troubled by the attentions of Chae Jun.
Might the water symbolise the emotions? Is there a difference between the water that is free flowing and water that is contained?
Trope Checklist
I didn’t think to start this, until I watched Ep 5, since I felt that the show was not all that tropey to begin with, but I need help. I only noticed these few tropes.
1) Childhood almost meeting
2) First snow and running back to be with the ‘one’ while it shows
3) Rain but it was DJ who carried her own umbrella and protected herself.
There must be more!
Yes @GB I read them all (your transcribe), I try to read all of the comments here in bod because you all so awesome. And it’s good to practice my english since english is not my first language.
Your point in number 3 is my question too!!! I think that between the twin there is the one who have a real affection towards other people (in this case: DJ). I had this thought at the scene of YD had a flashback when he saw Ian Chase at the police station (after he’s being interviewed by Det. Ko) like he compared the different gaze between Ian Chase and Jeong Min (there were the real smile vs the gaze without the blink of eyes).
I also thought that the odd numbered episodes seems more light and heartwarming, the even numbered episodes are when we have to wait for another week so yes they made so much cliffhanger for us. Haha..
I like the soundtrack of this episode too. The one that played as background music when YD and DJ had ramen together in front of the convenience store.
The title is: Still Wonder by Ha Hyun Sang
Here is the youtube link:
https://youtu.be/-Q9v74-Ce2E
(Hope there are some of you who will like this song too..)
🌷🌷🌷🌷
Thanks for the link @moonstar. Such a suitable song for this couple, so full of hope and speaks of a happy ending.
I think there were some other instrumentals that I found fun. I need to re-watch to catch them again and to transcribe a bit.
If you don’t mind my asking, what is your first language? I find your English pretty fine.
Reinterpreting the Words and Ramyeon Invitation Teasers
We noted that DJ reinterprets stories to suit the situation, to comfort herself, and to acknowledge a situation without sounding preachy. It was Ju’s voiceover on this in Ep 1 that drew attention to her talent in this area, so we know that Ju also knows about it.
In Episode 4, DJ and Ju had talked while walking up the slope to 99 building a few nights previously. They walked in unison, with steps synchronised left foot then right foot.
DJ had said : “There’s a movie called ‘The Double Life of Veronique’. It’s not some raunchy movie.”
Ju : “I didn’t say anything.”
DJ : “Two female characters are born at the same time and look identical. One is Polish and the other is French. They are neither related nor have met, but they can feel each other. When one of them dies, the other bursts into tears without knowing why.”
DJ looks at the twins toys in her hands : “‘Doppelganger’. Do you think they exist?”
Ju : “Maybe.”
She smiles at this : “I expected you to say that people mistake one for another and lecture me about the brain structure.”
Ju : “Once you’ve lost someone dear to you, you’re willing to believe anything. Things like souls, heaven, reincarnation. Everything. … Now that they’re free from pain, they must be flying anywhere they want. (Suggestion of butterflies??)
They must be enjoying all the food they craved down here and feeling joy. If I pine for them, they may come back as the wind and brush by me.”
She looks at him. He is nodding to himself. Perhaps she is comforted.
They walk up the slope in unison, steps still coinciding.
In Episode 5, after Ju meets Dr Chase, he’s out next morning waiting for DJ with coffee, to apologise to her. He walks her towards the bus stop and we see them walk down the same slope, in the same frame.
Ju : “I saw Ian Chase yesterday. I’m sorry.”
DJ : “For what?”
Ju : “I think you were telling me it’s hot but I told you a cup of warm tea would be good for you. When you mentioned doppelgangers. I didn’t think they’d look identical like that.”
DJ smiles and walks down: “No. When I told you it was hot, you said, ‘I’ll carry it with you.’ That’s what I heard.”
DJ has reinterpreted Ju’s words that he felt had been dismissive, into something positive.
Ju looks at the side of her face and smiles too. I like that their conversations are against a background of green trees.
DJ : “Hey, you’re not following me to the hotel, right?”
Ju : “No, but …” He looks at Gmart24 which is just beside them. “What if you were ten minutes late?”
DJ : “Then I would work ten minutes less today.”
Ju : “Ramyeon, meogeok-leio? / Would you like to eat ramyeon?”
DJ stares at him in surprise : “Heol! / No way.”
Ju looks back at her expectantly and without comprehension.
DJ : “How could you ask me that so easily?”
Ju looks blank, wondering what she means.
DJ teases : “I see. this is why people call you a flirt.” She shakes her head at him in mock disapproval and gives him a pointed stare as she walks off. LOL
Ju is still blank for a while and then comprehension dawns on his face. He realises what it sounded like he meant.
More Teasing
A few days later after he receives the squid from Mum, Ju tries on a pink helmet. DJ sees him through the shop glass wall and teases him.
DJ : “You have cool undertones. You look good in pink.”
Ju : “It’s for your mother. In return for the squid.”
He insists on helping her to carry the helmet and her bags to her house.
DJ : “But do you think you can handle it?” … “… If you give it my mum, she might send an entire boatload of squid to Gangneung to your house.”
Ju : “I should move to a bigger house, then.”
They smile.
DJ : “Right. So did you eat ramyeon that day?”
Ju : “By that day, do you mean the day you treated me like a pervert and left me on the street in the morning just because I suggested having ramyeon together?”
DJ : “A pervert? Gosh, no way. I just said you were a flirt.”
Ju : “I’m never going to live it down, am I?
DJ : “You think it only pertains to this life? There’s the afterlife and your next life.”
Ju : “I didn’t eat it.”
DJ : “Meogeok-leio, ramyeon?”
He looks at her with a sigh : “This is why you’re a flirt.”
DJ : “I used another expression. “Feel like having ramyeon?”
Ju : “I see. This is exactly why you’re a flirt.”
She laughs, and they cross the road smiling broadly.
They are outside Gmart24 and she holds out her hand.
Ju “It’s not drizzling, right?” (It will snow!)
DJ : “No, but I think it will soon.”
DJ tells Ju why she didn’t have dinner. It was too expensive to order delivery for just 1 person.
DJ : “I mean, if they’re going to charge me that much, shouldn’t they take me for a ride in Pungji-dong instead of the food?”
Ju teases her : “Why didn’t you ask them if they could give you a ride? They probably will.” He smiles cheekily.
She gives him a look and rebounds : “I listened to the radio show.”
He chokes LOL.
DJ : “You must frequent Gangneung.”
Ju : “Me?”
DJ : “You said you went there with a sweet lady. Obviously, I’m not the sweet type. You must have gone there with another girl.”
Ju : “Let me explain. I picked the song and left the booth. Seung Won did that after I left.
She looks a little disappointed that the message was not from him : “Ah.”
Ju : “That bastard, I swear, I’m going to get him one day.”
DJ : “Why? It was nice.”
Ju looks up at her in surprise.
DJ : “It feels good to listen to the song you like on the radio, you know.”
Ju : “Ahh” he nods. He’s happy that she took it the right way.
Little did he know that the song was playing inside her fridge because she was too embarrassed to listen to it. LOL.
The Butterflies Flew
In Episode 4 and 5 the fluttering like butterfly wings started to be felt by Young Do and Da Jeong, although for her, she did not really know what she felt and did not make it obvious that she was attracted to Ju. From the flashback, however, we get to see that DJ was flustered to hear that dedication to her on the radio. So much so that she had left her speaker in the fridge and had forgotten to take it out. She obviously felt more than she was willing to admit.
Their butterfly theme of being in a crazy, heart fluttery situation began when DJ hummed the melody of ‘The Butterflies Flew’, as they walked home after successfully getting Dr Hollow. It was strengthened when Ju requested the same melody to be played over the radio, which Seong Won craftily turned into a dedication to DJ, then it was reinforced again when DJ approved listening to the song he had chosen, in the midst of their chat about crazy, unseasonable happenings. It was confirmed in the drawing of the 2 butterflies and upon Ju meeting her on the roof in the crazy Spring snow.
DJ After they have ramyeon and go home. It starts to snow.
Ju is looking at a lollipop while in his car, and smiles as he recalls how he found the first lollipop with the flower in the time of his brother’s funeral. It had sweetened a time when he had been rejected by his mother.
When Ju sees the snow, he runs back to 99 Building. and recalls part of the conversation he and DJ had about the Magnolia tree blooming out of season.
Ju : “Right? Does it have to bloom at the same pace as the others? It can feel tingly and excited. It’s understandable. Right?”
DJ : “Of course.”
Ju : “Right.”
(Young Do and Da Jeong were a little embarrassed to be in a relationship with each other. They wanted to make light of it, and so called it a crazy thing. But at the same time they acknowledged that it was okay for the Magnolia to feel tingly and excited and to bloom when it was warm. The warmth that they had generated between them since Gangneung, was making them bloom as well.)
DJ’s voiceover “You know, I think that’s what snow is about. It excuses our crazy behaviour.”
And so we have Ju running back to 99 Building, exhibiting some crazy behaviour because he feels tingly and excited. LOL.
Ju runs up all the stairs to the roof.
DJ is on the roof amazed at the snow and looks up to see Ju. He approaches her.
DJ’s voiceover : “That night in late spring, the night crazy spring snow fell. With the crazy weather as an excuse, some spread their wounded wings again. (That’s DJ) And some fluttered their wings that had been folded for a very long time. (Ju) And the butterflies flew. (We see the 2 yellow butterflies that DJ had drawn on the board.)
The end title shows us the Title with the little red Heart ❤️ in the middle.
What a nice cliff hanger.
@GB,
It’s really nice reading your mini recaps. I smiled from ear to ear, reconstructing the those scenes in my mind.
1. Yes it is good that this show teach us how to handle some situation with people who have mental issues. The case with little Aiden was one of my favorite, I’m glad that DJ knows that he has a problem and she asked the expert on how to approach him. In this episode, I also learn that DJ is a people person. She is happy when she could help her guests, she is happy when greeting them. (Maybe this is also why she is a trash magnet, she believe she could change the trash behavior, she truly wanted to help those ex boyfriends.)
And the kid with the teddy bear. Omg, I was laughing when YD vet friend Haneul looking at the kid walking home from his office, then Haneul put his head on YD’s shoulder. I rarely see the guy doing this. YD too even if he might be a little bit uncomfortable (remember when Det. Ko touching his hair), but he let him be, he even hugged him in the end after reading his text..
2. I also agree with you that DJ and YD have something in common and it is also the core of their personality. Both of them wanted to bring out the best from the worst situations they were facing at. Maybe this is why I see their interactions were so natural. Both of them also have the same sense to help other people. What I remembered that in the previous episode when YD take DJ home, he asked her friends (Eun Ha and Cheol Do) to accompany her but then DJ told Cheol Do to go with YD instead. Even at DJ’s most horrible situation, she is still thoughtful.
3. Actually the water leak at YD’s consultation room is kinda strange. Sometimes it’s leaked sometimes it’s not. (?) Does it have any connection with previous crime that happened in that building, maybe there was evidence hide somewhere in the ceiling, related to the murder case.. Speaking of water and sea. I am curious about the pictures that DJ’s mom took when YD was pushed and fell. Haha maybe she will share those pictures in the group chat. Omg what an awkward situation… 😂😂
4. I also curious about YD’s wound. The reason why he married Ga Yeong (Did he just want to help her?). Also his relationship with his mother. Hope we’ll see more in this episode..
PS. Dear @GB, thank you for your kind words about my english. I speak Bahasa as my first language. The thing about learning second language is that it would fade away if we’re not frequently use it. So I’m trying to use is as often as possible.
Hi @moonstar!
You raise pertinent points.
Yes, DJ is a people person. You’re right that she also bothered about Ju when she was still in shock over the suicide. She’s other-centred and generous. No wonder she attracts those who want to get more out of their friends.
I liked that Ju let Ha Neul sob on his shoulder LOL. Then he patted him on the back before walking out. This is something he’d never do with Seong Won, I think.
I like your point about how the water leak may mean that something is hidden in the ceiling. I wonder if that’s possible. Ju’s office was the site of the murder, but it was refurbished, maybe renovated. I’d like to know what spaces lie between the 4th floor and the ceiling, that allows the water to drip on and off. The pail that catches the drips never looks full, and Ju does not seem worried that the leak may become bigger and flood his office. So strange.
Thanks for the reminder about the photos that DJ’s mum took. LOL, I wonder if she’ll use them to blackmail Ju or DJ later on!! It’s so appropriate that DJ calls her the Security Camera. She’s the one with the photos that no one will want to have publicised. I’d like DJ and Ju to agree to join her group chat room and to just chat comfortably with each other. I thought it was so cute that the minute the radio show played the dedication for DJ, mum created the group. The fact that she calls DJ everyday and was quick to want to befriend Ju, makes me think that she’s lonely and wants more friends.
Yes, I’m wondering about Ju’s wound… usually it’s something from childhood. And the earliest that we are shown, is him being maybe slightly older than DJ in 1994… and the main trauma then was his brother’s death and his mum being so cold towards him. That could be considered a wound, although it was slightly allayed by the lollipop he found next to the flower.
In 2003, we see him in high school when he sees Jeong Min? washing blood stained clothes. But that’s not a wound.
Yes, there’s a mystery about why Ju married Ga Yeong at all. She seems to think that he did it out of pity. He behaves kindly towards her, but not as if he loved her romantically, and she claims that she did like him a lot.
I was thinking about her relationship with Patrick and wondering if that would last. I can imagine that she’ll be running to Ju quite often to let off steam, if she is abandoned by Patrick.
On the other hand, Patrick’s agent may make it very unpleasant for her, so that she is the one forced to give Patrick up. Usually the one who is ‘weaker’ is blackmailed or bribed to give up and disappear. In separate notes, I was writing that GY probably feels she’s not a good ‘deal’ for Patrick, and that’s why she is hesitating, and not responding to his calls/texts. So that is already makes her the weaker of the 2, and she may give up more easily than Patrick, who is younger and more headstrong. I feel she may be afraid to drag Patrick down by dating him publicly.
I was thinking that by virtue of her being 10 years older than Patrick, any rumour about them getting together would automatically cause a stir and possibly a scandal. She’ll be accused of robbing the cradle and what the agent says is true … many fans will leave Patrick and possibly GY as well. At her age, she may not want to risk losing her popularity.
I’m also waiting impatiently for Ep 6 to be subbed so that we’ll know more. I’m not sure that watching the unsubbed episode will be much help because so much comes out only with the dialogue. I guess I’ll have to be patient.
I like Bahasa! At least I know a few words!!! LOL.
Ian Chase
Some odd thoughts about the assumed villain. When Ga Yeong gets into his car by mistake and scolds him for driving someone else’s car, he exercises restraint in merely staring at her without telling her off.
He assumes that she got into the wrong car and thinks there are many weird people in that hotel. LOL.
It’s interesting that when Ian sees little Aiden take the hotel flowers to give to DJ, he indicates to her where the flowers are to be returned. When Aiden runs towards Chase and Dr Bale, he falls. It’s Chase who goes to him to ask if he’s alright.
So is this the real Chase? The relatively nice guy as long as one does not cross him?
And what of detective Park Ho who was tailing Chase? We may assume that Chase stabbed him, but he didn’t kill him, which is strange. In the previous cases, all the victims died so there were no witnesses. Then we may have to ask: who really stabbed the detective?
Kalispera!
I wanted to say Hi! I have internet access at last!
See ya all tomorrow! I want to catch up with the new episodes!
Hi @Cleo! I look forward to reading you soon.
LOL Episode 6… the crazy things our leads get up to.
The question really arises about who Ian Chase is. As I was mentioning, one of the ‘twins’ seemed to have been a victim as well, as a child, or maybe both were. Show is still making us wonder which twin this is.
We are being reminded that Ju is a recovered heart patient who has to take it easy. It’s easy to forget because he looks well.
Gotta go now, will be back later. 😉
Agapimenes @GB, @moonstar, @jingangie and @Cleo!!! I just finished ep5 and I’ve been so focused on the OTP that I’m kinda glossing over Ian and crime related events for now so it’s great to read your notes and comments about it.
I like the “flirting” conversations and the encounters between the 2 to be so heart fluttering. Like the crazy magnolia blooming out of synch with the season. Thanks @GB for the transcript. This is falling in love as adults and I’m as giddy!
Great insights on how to deals with children, too and that childhood connection of the OTP, though currently unknown from each other manifests through their habits even now as adults. Soon they will remember this link.
Correction on the Tropes and first snow. Although the trope is that one wants to be with one’s true love while it is snowing, it’s supposed to be at the first snow that falls that year. In this case, in Ep 5/6 it was not the first snow, but a Spring snow that fell out of season. Also, an earlier snow had fallen in a previous episode which DJ had seen as she stared at her skylight.
So the trope is not a first snow trope, but maybe one that is just being created as we type??? LOL.
My dear @GB,
I wanted to write earlier about Episodes 5&6, but I didn’t find any time. I will try to write some points but I will return when I have more time! Your summaries helped a lot!
Regarding your question about the water and emotions, I have written something on the previous thread about it. I will only quote the first part of the sentence, because where I am at the moment, I don’t have my back up document with me.
The part I wanted to write more about is the following:
I am not pretty sure about Ian Chase being the killer.
I think we have a case of an “unreliable narrator”, as it is known in Literature.
The person with the hat and mask that stabbed the police officer is NOT Ian Chase.
Ian Chase was in that café at the time. The Police Officer noticed that man that was tailing both Ian Chase and himself. So, he followed him in that alley. If you noticed the attacker had different attire from Ian Chase’s. I checked the scenes twice and the attacker’s shoes are athletic, while his hair was restless. I think that the attacker is slightly shorter than the Twins. I cannot say for sure, mostly because he was humping.
In my opinion, the culprit of the murders is the man that stabbed the police officer; we don’t know anything about yet. We have seen him again in that internet café, being shocked by the resemblance.
If you noticed the stabbing scene, he did it while he was totally calm. The police officer was trying to catch his breath, but that man stabbed him once and with force. Definitely he has done it before and it was not his first time. If Dr. Ju had seen that video would agree with me! (lol)
I think that Ian Chase feels that he is being followed. We watch this part in a weird way, hence my unreliable narrator comment. I think that those weird scenes are just his gut feeling telling him that he is in danger. Also, we get to witness that his intuition has the form of his dead twin. Still, his persona is shady for a reason. As it seems, he has suppressed some bad incidents that happened to him. Lastly, we have seen that he is taking some sort of medication.
I watched again the incident with the abusive dad and the boy that was in the house didn’t kill him. The drunken and abusive dad tried to hit the boy and he missed. The staggered and he was killed by his own stupidity by that wooden chair part.
So back in 2003, we don’t actually have a murder. It was just Divine Retribution.
Consequently, I am not pretty sure that the Twins have committed any murders. I am pretty sure that the culprit is the third man, we haven’t seen his face yet. Also, as it seems the police officer that was murdered and Dr. Ju has his heart, was investigating the case with that Cult Church. So, my guess is that they are all involved in that case, but they don’t know it.
Lastly, I wanted to write something about Young Do’s mom.
His mom was abusive as well. She was mourning for her ill younger son and she was putting YD into tremendous pressure to save his youngest brother.
As his father shared, YD the kiddo has done everything his mother has asked for. She was sacrificing her healthy son, in order her youngest one to live, but what she did was in vain. That’s why his father was hiding him away. As it seems, she needed treatment herself, as she was mentally unstable and with her behavior has marred YD deeply.
I agree with you @GB, these series show us with a respectful tone about mental diseases, trauma and how you can overcome it. I have pinpointed that message in one of my comments in the previous thread!
Hi @Cleo, I’m quite tied up too so I understand.
I did see what you wrote on the water meaning feelings, and it fits with the repeated appearance of water as a connection. I see that you linked up the water drop falling into the pail of water and the ripples with Ju realising that he’s in trouble ie his heart has been breached. (It’s an interesting parallel that the man with the heart transplant is the Dr Hollow figure who gives his heart away to others, and at the same time, Ju has romantically given his heart away to DJ.
It’s interesting that you said that he needed a new heart, maybe because he felt so much, that his heart was broken, and needed to be replaced. I wrote something else about YD’s heart in line with his wound, below.)
In Episode 6, we get the backstory that explains Ju Young Do’s wound (wounded heart).
Yes, the water in movement ties in nicely with feelings. When the feelings were contained (water was in a glass) nothing much happened, but when let loose as in when the water sprayed or dripped, the feelings were shown to be flowing between them too.
The broken glass and spilt water (when DJ was troubled by CJ) might mean that DJ and CJ were not meant to be. It was a ‘bad omen’.
Ju Young Do and the Tunnel
Ju inadvertently overhears and sees his friend Det Ko getting a dressing down for putting his partner in danger.
Police Chief to Ko: “You did the same to Det Park as well. You were hell-bent on finding the killer, so you made him tail that guy by himself! You neglected him because all you cared about was Jeong Beom.”
This triggers in Ju memories where it had been similar with his mum. All she cared about was to save his hyung. She neglected Young Do and worse, wanted to harvest his organs for Young Jae, without much consideration for the pain he had already gone through and would go through again, let alone the risk to his life.
In an effort to keep YD safe, Dad had taken him by taxi that went through a narrow square holed tunnel to the Nahum Jeil Church orphanage. It was a place that frightened YD. I wonder if this is the genesis of why he hates tunnels, as we heard from his guy friends when they first meet DJ on the roof. They were surprised that he drove to Gangneung through tunnels (for a girl) when he had avoided them like crazy in the past. Ju might associate going through tunnels with this traumatic time he had been ‘abandoned/hidden’ at the scary orphanage, while his brother died.
Dad to YD : “I need you to stay here for a few days.”
YD : “Can’t I just stay at the temple we went to before? This place frightens me.”
Dad : “No one will find you here. I’ll come back for you very soon. Look at me, do you think I’m lying?” Dad looks at him earnestly.
(Could that be why he believes that a person who is lying will look at one to see if one believes them or not?)
YD : “Dad, what will happen to hyung if I stay here?”
Dad: “He’ll be okay. I’ll take care of him.” Father looks away.
YD : “No. You’re lying. I want to save him.” (This time he interprets the looking away as a sign that Dad is lying.)
Dad hugs Young Do.
Young Do had wanted to save his hyung, but hyung had died and his mother had turned away from him at the wake. In the present, Ju seemed to be remembering his past sadly.
Siblings: How Far Are They to Go for Each Other?
This is a question that the show raises.
<bChase and Chae Jun –
To separate them, Chase = JM/Chase
His younger brother = Chae Jun/JM
We are led to believe that JM/Chase went all out to help his brother in 2003. He replaced him in that dangerous situation where the ‘father’ would beat him up/throw things at him. However his help amounted to letting the father die, instead of calling for help. We do not know if Chae Jun/JM was already sociopathic at that time, but there would have been a psychological impact if there had been guilt and having to hide the ‘crime’ of letting a person die. We saw that he had been horrified to have been complicit in his father’s death. JM/Chase seems to have been able to take it in his stride better. Maybe he’s the true sociopath.
We are waiting to see if there was give and take between the brothers. Were perhaps killings done by Chae Jun/JM on behalf of JM/Chase, or did JM/Chase go out of his way to get rid of troublesome people for his brother.
With Det Park Ho’s stabbing, the question arises about whether the assailant was just following Det Park by chance or had been set upon him by someone. As @moonstar noted, there is a 3rd person, a man who was shocked that JM/Chase was identical to Chae Jun/JM. The assailant may have been following Chase as well and Det Park got in the way. On the other hand, Chase may have set the assailant to attack anyone who followed him. We have to wait and see.
Young Do and Young Jae – Young Do as the younger sibling was expected by his mother to give everything necessary to save his brother. We see that YD as a child was willing to help. He was sincere in wanting to save his brother, but his father wanted to keep YD safe. So with this backstory, we understand the wound that YD carries with him. It is a complicated emotion where he loved his brother but was not allowed to save him, and he had to live with survivor’s guilt, plus the blame and resentment of his mother. I’d like to see what his mum is like currently, and whether she still resents him.
The interesting thing is that YD himself couldn’t have been all that well. He needed a heart transplant by the time he was an adult. In line with @Cleo’s previous comment on his heart, did Mum’s favouritism cause YD’s heartbreak so that he needed a new heart?
If his parents knew that his heart was weak, all the more, it was a terrible thing that his mother wanted him to donate his kidney as well. I don’t know what his brother suffered from, but it might have been leukaemia since they took YD’s bone marrow. It feels like YD’s mother essentially wanted to take from a child who could have been weak, to save one who was probably already very close to dying. What kind of emotional upheaval does this leave in one’s wake? It’s wonderful that JuYD continues to be the warm-hearted and giving person that he is.
Eun Ha and Cheol Do – We get confirmation that Eun Ha and Cheol Do are fraternal twins, but EH bullies Cheol Do. They seem to be able to cooperate on the whole, although EH is fault-finding and CD is slower on the uptake and gets the shorter end of the stick.
Da Jeong and Tae Jung – DJ took care of TJ when they were young and they are still friends and support each other as adults. Theirs’ is the most healthy looking sibling relationship.
Hi everyone.. @GB, @jingangie, @Cleo and @Janey
I just finished episode 6.
So we finally got glimpse of JYD’s childhood story. I was heartbroken by this. It reminded me of My Sister’s Keeper book.. (I was crying hard at the end of that book). So JYD mother loved her sick son so much, she wanted to save him no matter what but she didn’t seem to think about JYD’s feeling too. JYD is her son too, like what the father said to his mother. And JYD, oh poor him, he truly wanted to save his own brother. I think, JYD has a complicated feeling, he still feels guilty about his brother death but at the same time, he wants his mother to acknowledged him too. I don’t know about now, but back then, she was too immersed with her own grief. Yes @Cleo his mother needed treatment herself indeed.
I also think that the one who stabbed the police officer was not Ian Chase. But somehow, I think, the culprit has a connection with Ian Chase/Jeong Min. A long term resentment maybe.. that’s why the culprit put all the blame to Jeong Min. If, the culprit is the one who was shocked at the internet cafe, he might have been following Ian Chase too at the same time with the police officer, because he is afraid that his crime would be uncovered. I also thought that the culprit may be related to the Cult Church too.
Seeing how Ian Chase took the pills, his bad dreams and tried to strangle DJ’s neck after waking up, I think he’s suffered with PTSD too.
@GB, I’m about to write regarding Ga Yeong and Patrick and you already did that 🙂 I remembered the scene when Patrick visit gym to find Ga Yeong and her instructor friend told him that not only does Ga Yeong hate to get hurt but also hates hurting others. She’s definitely the weaker one, however I think that Patrick is really in love with her. If he’s convincing enough, Ga Yeong might do the “crazy things” too with him. Of course they have to go through the rocky roads first. There are a lot of things that they should have considered (most importantly their careers).
I like the scene where DJ put the magnolia flowers on JYD’s hair, he realized that when he touched his hair, but he let it be. And later on, we know that he put that flower on a vase next to Mr Hollow toy. (It is like the “DJ’s corner”..) This is why I’m attracted to his character. LOL. He does the sweet things subtly, effortlessly.
I was afraid JYD would collapse when they ran, realizing that they were late to return the hanbok.. but Thank God no.
P.S. @GB I found that several instrumental backsound are nice too. Have you found the title of these tunes?
Hi @moonstar! It looks that both you and I have cottoned on to the same significant points about YD’s childhood wound, the unknown person who stabbed Det Park and how the mystery man who recognised Chase could be following him.
Yes I’m about to post a looooong post on Ian Chase and his possible PTSD.
I liked how DJ in Ju’s office looked around and saw the Dr Hollow figure and the flower in the water. She must have recognised the significance of him keeping the 2 articles that are associated with her together and carefully. She had a look of awareness in her eyes and a small smile after she noticed them.
I have to wait for some kind soul to put up the OSTS on YouTube so that we can get the instrumentals as well as the songs. I did note that the music with Ga Yeong is the very cute music that sounds like Wii music. It’s the kind of music that tells us we cannot take her too seriously. However although she’s one who adds comedy to the show, she is also a pathetic figure. I have yet to post my thoughts on GY.
Catch ya later!
Kalimera my darlings @GB, @Moonstar512, @Janey, @jinangie!
Yes, @GB things are hectic at the moment.
When I wrote my comment on “The Third Twin” book by Ken Follett in the past thread, I was thinking that we don’t know the whole true. It was early on to add guesses so I kept my comment minimal and I told so answering to @moonstar512.
Still, I think that Chae Jun/ JM had a mental disease, since Dr. Ju made a diagnosis on him.
As for JM/Chase he is indeed suffering from PTSD as @moonstar512 said, along with something else we don’t know anything about.
From his data, we know that he is a neurosurgeon. He is also an active doctor; he performed the surgery to the stabbed police officer when the hospital didn’t have an attended General Surgeon.
IF Ian Chase has a more severe mental problem, could he be able to attain his medical permit in the States?
@Janey , @Welmaris can you help us on that matter?
Since we don’t know their whole story yet, it is understandable just to guess if one of them or both of them did or not any killings. After watching Episodes 5 & 6, I am not sure about that.
I think that Chae Jun / JM might be a psychopath, but not a killer. At the same time JM/ Chase seems off, but I don’t think he is a killer as well.
@Moonstar512, as I have written in the previous YAMS thread:
That man is the one who stabbed the Police Officer in that alley. Since he was dumbfounded about the second one, then he started tailing JM / Chase too. The fact that the police officer noticed him, shows that he is careless.
I continue to believe the stabber / culprit is genetically involved with the Twins and he is the one doing the killings. We have previously discussed so with @Jinangie.
The late Chae Jun / JM knew who the man was. It is remaining to be seen if JM/ Chase remembers him as well.
I am going to repeat myself but the Cult Church is the core problem and the solution of the problem we are facing.
That’s all for now. 🙂
Dr Ian Chase
I’ve been putting the word ‘villain’ in inverted commas when it comes to him, and in Ep 6, this seems more appropriate than ever because Chase appears to have been a victim, and perhaps an observer, but it’s not clear if he was a perpetrator. He may have once deliberately allowed a person to die, a sin more of omission than commission perhaps, although it may not make him any less culpable.
The complication with interpreting the character of Ian Chase increases because:
1) We do not know if his hallucinations are what he ‘normally’ has, ie whether he’s always been someone with mental health issues or not. It’s likely that he has them but he may not have been officially diagnosed, because he’s a high-profile neurosurgeon. Definitely he is distraught by the suicide of his twin, and it’s taking a toll on him.
2) Chase and Chae Jun, were not just siblings but identical twins, and it’s not clear if they had a psychic connection. There’s I believe, no scientific proof, but there seems to be anecdotal evidence that each twin can sense a lot more going on with the other.
3) We do not know if a multiple personality disorder is also being hidden.
So for example, at the columbarium as he leaves his brother’s ashes, he again has auditory and visual hallucinations of his brother as a high-schooler ordering him to follow him. Or, is he in the personality of his brother now, speaking to himself in his mind?
We are given a simple parallel of Det Park Ho, where the stabbing already has him traumatised. We hear Ju telling him that: “You may see afterimages for some time. If it continues, you should get therapy, take medication, and get treated.”
Park does not think he is that weak, but Ju points out that policemen can feel fear as well. We see that the sight of a knife bothers Det Park.
Ju continues : “Some people try to brush it off with a strong sense of vocation. But that will only cause PTSD. It means post-traumatic stress disorder. It’ll become chronic if it accumulates.”
Chase seems to be seeing lots of afterimages, from his childhood. So he needed therapy, which he might not have received. We are also perhaps asked to consider how much PTSD, Dr Chase himself may be having/hiding, which since it started from childhood has likely become chronic with him.
The Identity of Ian Chase (Part 1)
From Ep 6, we are shown that Chase claims that his name is Choi Jeong Min. When he was taken from his brother, he asked about his doengsaeng (younger brother) ie Chase is the older of the twins. He even asked about his mother, which means, he was not really an orphan without parents, but may have been a victim of kidnapping or the twins had been abandoned. He was also deemed to be able to elicit a good price when he was ‘sold’. So he could have been forcibly taken and sold by the child traffickers of the fake Nahum Jeil Church.
BACKSTORY
Timestamp: 1:03:45
It’s night and Chase is sitting in the hotel room looking at the photo of the Nahum Jeil Church on his laptop, and the photo of his brother on the table.
He takes medication with alcohol, – not advisable – which a doctor should know better than to do! These photos together with the medication puts his mind in a state open to memories that have been triggered and to multiple dreams.
MEMORIES
The NJChurch woman that we saw in the background when Young Do’s Dad brought him to stay looks pleased to see JM/Chase as a child : “Hey, you’ll sell well. You’ll sell much better together with your twin.”
People are invited into the orphanage. Chase as a child is hiding and he hears the voice of the man that Young Do’s father had spoken to, say of the twins : “We’ll send this one to the US today.”
There is the ominous sound of footsteps. Young Chase is still hiding and peeking out from somewhere. There’s an image of fire and wind fluttering a flag or banner.
Chase sees an adult in a dark jacket walking (approaching?) he turns his head (each time we see him turn his head or look around, we anticipate something bad about to happen). We see that he’s in a room and he’s been looking out the window. He backs away as the footsteps approach him. We can’t see what happens in the dark corner as the man goes after Chase. We only hear the sound of breathing that indicates resistance and a struggle.
After these series of memories, we are back in the present and see adult Chase eyes closed and head back on the sofa.
THE DREAMS/NIGHTMARES
Chase finds himself lying on the floor. He gets up and looks around.
There are figures from his past (we do not see their heads) standing before him in the dark while he stands in the light.
Voices from his past come at him :
“Hurry up!
“This is your sibling.”
“Come here! What’s wrong with you?”
“What’s your problem?”
He turns and sees a light streaming through a hole. He looks through the peephole.
(Because they were twins, it’s possible also that he is able to tap into what his brother might have been feeling. This part of his dream brings him to what he either guesses or imagines happened when his brother killed himself.)
We see Chase dressed as Jeong Min, he seems to be able to relive the last moments of Chae Jun, standing at the edge of the upper floor. He closes his eyes and deliberately falls forward, but instead of landing on the ground to die, he enters water. The music is suddenly muted as the water mutes noise. We only hear the bubbles he emits.
We cut to him as a child in a place that looks like a prison with a barred window high up on the wall.
His child’s voice asks :”Where am I? Where’s by dongsaeng/younger brother? What about my mum?”
Cut to Chase as an adult in the water, unconscious.
Voice of a woman : “Is he that kid with no name?”
Boy’s voice : “My name is Choi Jeong Min.”
Man’s voice : “Do as I say and stay here. And he’s no longer your brother.” Chase’s body falls backwards in the water.
A woman whispers :”They’ll definitely like you.”
Man’s voice : “You could get a new mum.”
With the nightmare still fresh in his mind, Chase wakes up suddenly to DJ calling his name.
DJ : “Dr Chase. Can you hear me, Dr Chase? Are you okay?” He seems to see her through a film of water.
DJ becoming concerned : “Can you hear me Dr Chase?”
Another voice says peremptorily : “Open your eyes.”
DJ : “Dr Chase!”
He suddenly wakes and draws breath as if he’d really been holding his breath underwater.
He attacks DJ, choking her against the floor. He does not seem to recognise her. His face is scarily demented.
The closing credits has no heart shape in the title.
Epilogue? : Chase in a cap looks menacing. He turns to look at himself/his brother? in all black but without a cap. The glare of light in the square tunnel entrances shines behind each of them. They look at each other unsmiling. Then Chase is alone in the tunnel, in which a small fire burns.
Ian Chase (Part 2) and DJ and YD as Children
Chase seems to have given his name/identity to his brother before they were fingerprinted for registration. His brother’s fingerprints elicited the name Choi Jeong Min. This means that we do not know if Chae Jun was his brother’s real name or not. They both claim to be Jeong Min.
To differentiate them:
Chase = JM/Chase
His younger brother = Chae Jun/JM
In the childhood meeting trope, we keep returning to the time of 1994, when the NJ Church was trafficking in children. In Christmas 1994, DJ aged 7 and brother, TJ (likely around 4 years of age) went to the NJ Church to get bread to eat, but only received books. The Choi twins were also there. Chae Jun in the grey shirt was friendlier and liked DJ. JM/Chase was the older twin in a black jacket. He was generally hiding away, peeping out.
In the car that drove away, DJ saw that it was JM/Chase in the black jacket who had been in the backseat.
Unknown to them, Young Do who was 11 years old, was either also somewhere around that NJ Church or soon to be there, because his father hid him away from his mother at that orphanage. He might have seen or heard some of the criminal activities that took place there as well. Perhaps later we’ll see that he also met JM/Chase or Chae Jun/JM there.
Sometime later, maybe in early 1995, Young Jae dies, and DJ’s brother has an appendectomy. Young Do and DJ are at the same hospital but in different parts. I wrote previously of their comforting each other without ever meeting.
In probably 2003, JM/Chase returns to S Korea and helps his brother who’s been abused by his ‘father’. In March of that year, Kim Myeong Ja is killed. We see a memory-hallucination of JM/Chase following his brother who looks to be in the blue jumper that he wore after the father had died. Chase appears to be an observer as Chae Jun/JM rings the doorbell and we hear the sound of KMJ screaming.
The adult JM’s voiceover reads the suicide note: “On March 13, 2003, at 9pm. I killed Kim Myeong Ja.”
We hear the question : “Are you saying you don’t know who Ms Kim Myeong Ja is?” It’s Det Lee Jeong Beom who is questioning a neighbour.
Neighbour : “No one knows who lives in that house.”
JM’s voiceover continues : “On June 3, 2018, at 2:00pm, I stabbed Lee Jeong Beom in a back alley at Pungji -dong, because he knew too much about me.” We see LJB turn around with a look of surprise and fear, and next moment we see that he is lying, stabbed, his notebook on the ground.
JM’s voiceover : “And on December 18, 2020 at 2:00am, I killed Cho Gwang Hun. Since I knew that the building was vacant, I could carry out my deed without feeling rushed.”
I’m wondering if Kim Myeong Ja and Cho Gwang Hun worked at the NJ Church. As @Cleo and @moonstar have pointed out, the church is the starting point of a lot of evil. (Trust a kdrama to vilify the church yet again) and it may well be where we have to end up for the resolution.
We have yet to find out:
– Why and how the twins ended up with child traffickers
– Who Chae Jun is and if he was adopted or living with his own parents ie they sold one son and kept the other? (Almost what YD’s mum wanted to do to him.)
– Whether when JM/Chase sees the killing of Kim Myeong Ja happening, he is doing so as a 2nd party observer, or if he is remembering that he himself committed the crime. If the latter, then whether he committed it as himself, or as a separate personality.
– The original question of whether JM/Chase was in Korea during all the killings.
– Who else is following JM/Chase.
Hi @GB!
Omg yes, we highlighted the same points..
I will wait for your post regarding Ian Chase and his possible PTSD (and also about Ga Yeong). I agree that Ga Yeong is a pathetic one. Previously I thought that her existence purpose was only to give us the laughter (as balancing scenes of this show).. but I sense that she is also lonely. Especially when she said that she doesn’t have anywhere else to go and she had to lie about Punga-dong ..
I noticed too when DJ put a small smile after seeing the flower and Dr Hollow toy. We already know how Dr Ju’s feeling towards her but as @GB said, DJ did not really know what she felt also not make it obvious that she was attracted to Dr Ju. But her smile there is a good sign, right 🙂
@Cleo, @Moonstar512, @Janey
We seem to be on the same page about our protagonists. We are agreeing that:
1)JM/Chase has at least PTSD. I wonder he is able to hide it so well that no one knows. However the stress of returning to SKorea in the face of his brother’s suicide may be pushing him over the edge. He’s also taking some tablets/pills… I’m not sure if they are meant to help him sleep or drugs of some kind that can warp his thinking.
2) YEs, at this stage, all we can make are educated guesses. Maybe in the end, Chase and Chae Jun are not the killers but were made to be the fall guy(s).
3) Both the twins’ personalities are off. I wish we had a real psychologist among us who could point us in the right direction.
4) The #1. Someone at an Internet café who might be the culprit as in the one who stabbed the Police Officer and maybe the one trying to pin the murders on Chae Jun.
Since the suicide note was added to the locker and the music box later, CJ probably did not write it. So we don’t know why he killed himself after succeeding in getting DJ to go out with him.
The locker number was known by this mysterious person, who passed it to the homeless man. We are guessing that CJ knew this man because the man knew the locker number?
He was probably the same person who took photos of CJ and DJ.
There is a #2 mysterious guy in a white coat who received these photos.
Your point on
By genetically involved do you mean related as a family member?
5) The Cult Church is likely at the centre of the crimes and the mysteries.
My agapimeni @GB,
I agree with you that Ian Chase has at least chronic PTSD. Since I don’t know how the medical occupation works in the States.
I want to ask @Janey and @Welmaris
1. Do doctors get psychologic evaluations annually or not?
I know that those who have a narcissist syndrome or they are sociopaths can effectively hide it. I got this feeling though that Ian Chase is just an introvert person. I don’t think he has multiple personalities for instance.
I think that is the case. In Episode 4, Young Do tried to tell Officer Ko Jin-Bok that Chae Jun/JM was not the guilty one and if you remembered Jin Bok got mad in the beginning. That was before the twin reveal on the telly.
Yes, I strongly believe that #1 is the culprit and the attacker of the Detective.
I agree with you. Chae Jun / JM was under duress when he was writing those numbers DJ found later on, on that paper flower, some hours before his suicide.
Most likely Chae Jun / JM was being blackmailed for something.
My Wild Guess: The only thing that someone could use against him could be his / their (?) father’s death.
If I continue my train of thought, Chae Jun / JM might have a different idea of what happened that night. Ian Chase / JM didn’t tell him exactly what happened. The audience only saw that light vs darkness line.
So, after all those years it is plausible that Chae Jun / JM could believe that his twin killed his / their (?) father in 2003, and with that letter and suicide Chae Jun / JM tried to protect Ian Chase.
That #2 could be Ian Chase. We only saw his back in Episode 1, but maybe he was keeping a tab on his younger brother because he was unstable and he knew it?
As for your question. Yes, I truly believe that they are all blood related. Hence #1’s reaction when he saw Ian Chase on the television in that Internet café.
Here is another guess of mine:
a. #1 didn’t know that Ian Chase was still alive and after dealing with Chae Jun / JM, he might have thought that he was free at last. Since someone else got the fall for him.
He is tailing him because he wants to find out if Ian Chase knows the truth about Chae Jun / JM. So far, Ian Chase is looking for #1 and it seems that he doesn’t remember him.
Lastly, I wanted to write down again, that Ian Chase follows his younger twin is an allegory for his Intuition. It is like his dead brother is leading him to find the truth. I believe they were connected as twins.
As it seems, the Twins, #1, the late police officer that gave his heart to YD, the man that was killed in the 99 building, YD and DJ all have been near Nanum Jeil Church / Cult Church one way or another. So, we will be waiting patiently the connection to be revealed in order to be sure about our guesses!
@Cleo, I’d like to know how you connect #1 as one genetically related to Chae Jun (and Chase) but yet that he should be surprised to see Chase alive. I’d have expected someone who is ‘close’ to Chae Jun like a family member to know.
I’d guess that he should have known Chase was in the US and could come back to Korea at any time. But the level of shock of #1 who jumped out of his chair in the Internet Cafe suggests that he didn’t even know a twin existed.
I’d also like to know what happened to their ‘mother’. But I’m not too hopeful that Show will give us much info on her.
My lovely @GB,
This erratic notion that are genetically related has to do with “The Third Twin” book! LMAO! As I have said, the fetus is were fertilized in vitro.
They were more than two, hence the title! There is also a movie, but I cannot recall if it is that good.
I believe #1 didn’t know or he didn’t expect him to be alive, if Ian Chase was taken away from them many years ago.
Is it their “mother” or a woman who raise them? I do hope they will show us, though!
Hello ladies and gents! I just finished ep6 and YAMS is now one of my favorite dramas haha I love everything about this drama so far so good. I hope they will maintain the momentum, I don’t care if ep5&6 hit the lowest rating, I really enjoyed these episodes.
Thank you so much pm3 for opening the thread for YAMS. It helps me understand some of the scenes that I didn’t get haha thank you dear GB, moonstar512, cleo and janey for the transcripts, notes. I enjoyed reading them all and I learned a lot from your discussions.
About the twins, so we got their stories here and I’ll just comment here what I noticed. Please, correct me if I’m wrong.
**December 1994
ChaeJun (CJ)
-The twin who’s wearing a grey/brown long sleeves.
-The one who patted DJ’s head.
-The one who’s hiding under the Christmas tree.
-The one who’s in the group photo with DJ.
https://ibb.co/VvMSmL5
JeongMin (JM) / Ian Chase (IC)
-The twin who’s wearing the black jacket.
-“It wasn’t me who patted you on the head.”
-The one who’s hiding and peeking on the stairs.
-The one who’s in the car and got sold/went to USA.
https://ibb.co/RS2Hkdk
*(I just base these according to what they’re wearing.)
I think originally, the twins will be sold together but Hong SeGeun kept CJ. Or he was scammed by Kim MyeongJa? I agree with GB, the twins were kidnapped.
https://ibb.co/2ZKNzZk
**MARCH 2003, Seoul
Here we saw the twins switched clothes. JM/IC just got back from US and he went to look for CJ and saw him from his house with nose bleed. Definitely abused by HSG. JM/IC wore CJ’s uniform and enters his house.
https://ibb.co/sRz4YJX
12 hours after, in JM/IC’s place, they had conversation. He said to CJ “Don’t forget how far I went for you. A shadow… shouldn’t covet the light. Because it will vanish.”
*Wild Guess*
I agree with Cleo, the twins didn’t commit any murders. I also think that there is a Third Man or a “Third Twin” (?) and I think he’s the one who was in Internet Café. Maybe he was also the “Homeless Man” (?) When I rewind the scene where Officer Park Ho saw the suspicious man who also monitors IC, he kinda has an unkept hair like the homeless man’s hair.
My guess is this Third Man is the one who commits all the murders and made JM the killer or wrote/typed the suicide letter. Then CJ was blackmailed so he went to abandoned building and killed himself (?) or was pushed.
When IC is reading JM’s suicide letter, it looks like he was just reading it or investigating it.
I also compared the shoes of the killer at 99 Bldg and the man who stabbed Det.Park Ho but no luck hehe it’s different >_<
https://ibb.co/tXt8ygN
Hi @011sn
Yes, isn’t this show intriguing? It started off on such an ominous tone of darkness, frightening footsteps and a suicide. It had a troubling sociopath stalking DJ, but it’s become such an interesting study of aspects of psychology/mental health issues, what children with trauma/PTSD could end up as, as adults and interesting, funny relationships.
Thanks for all the comparison screenshots. Until you put this one together, I didn’t know it was the same man!
So this guy might actually have been the kidnapper, or the ‘father’ who sold one twin away. I was thinking he might have been the ‘father’ because at 18 years of age, CJ/JM was in school uniform, and living in the house rather than at the orphanage. He was free to come and go from the house, so it didn’t seem that he’d been held there against his will.
Of course, he could have been kidnapped when much younger, and was stuck, living with the kidnapper.
Yes, I feel you got the events in the years right, or I too have the same things down in my notes. But you made a good point. The twins exchange clothes. So based on the black jacket alone, we think it was JM/Chase who was sold to the US. It might have been that everyone thought they were selling the younger twin (Chae Jun) but it was the older twin who took his place.
The words that JM/IC says to his brother:
Seems to suggest that JM/IC considers himself the ‘light’ and that CJ/JM is the shadow who will vanish. The twins do not seem close, ie they don’t hang out together at the church, and these words don’t sound friendly. Now I wonder if JM/IC actually wanted his twin to be around him or whether he preferred to be the one in the limelight, and pushed his brother into the shadows.
The Wild Guess is plausible. At one time I was toying with the idea of triplets! Yes the suicide with the murders mentioned in the suicide note seemed too pat. Det Ko and Ju YD both have the hunch that CJ was not the killer.
Thanks for the shoe comparison. Actually the shoes look similar to me!!
This reminds me that there were several times we see feet in shoes and hear footsteps. Perhaps we need to take note of all the different shoes!!!
DJ’s and Ju’s Craziness
Ju says the Magnolias probably do not recognise him when compared to his 20 year old self, because he had been habitually drunk.
DJ : “I don’t think I ever saw you drink.”
Ju : “I’ve been sober for a few years.”
DJ : “Not even one sip?”
Ju : “No.”
DJ : “Why? I mean it’s not wrong to stay sober, but …”
Ju : “Because I need to do my utmost best to live as long as I can.”
He has not told her about his heart.
We may recall in Ep 5, that when he went back to the radio station to accost Seong Won for making up the song dedication from Ju to DJ, that Seong Won had told him not to do anything that would affect his heart.
I just looked up how long on average a heart transplant recipient can live, and I am surprised that it’s not that long. 10 years on average? Some individuals manage to live much longer but it seems most do not. That’s kind of sad. Will that mean that Ju won’t really want to get into a relationship? Is that why he was in and out of the marriage with GY within a year?
I thought it was poignant that he didn’t drink any alcohol at all so that he could live as long as possible. It is a very responsible decision, stemming from respect for the donor of the heart, and possibly because of knowing the pain of losing his brother. He does not want to irresponsibly shorten his life and inflict that pain upon others.
DJ to Ju : “What crazy thing do you want to do?”
He’d said that he’d already done it ie he’d run back to her…
Ju : “I rarely run, but today I ran with all my might. If I do more crazy things, then I’ll become a lunatic. Not just someone who does crazy things sometimes.”
(This is sweet. He took a risk to run back to her, which he’d never have done, if he hadn’t cared about her. He cared enough for her to want to do something crazy, associated with her, or in her company, and with no one else. First time dressing up as a ghost ever sounded romantic LOL.)
DJ stares at him, gathering that he’s admitting something that is serious.
She starts saying : “What else do you …” Then changes her mind : “Nevermind.”
(I believe she might have wanted to ask him what else he did not do, but felt that she would have been prying. She’s surprised that he does not drink, and does not run.
He may not want to tell new friends about his heart, because it could be a source of worry. He cannot strain his heart. I wonder if Eun Ha knows, because her brother, Cheol Do is also a close friend of Ju’s.)
Ju says he can’t believe that seeing the Magnolia tree was the crazy thing DJ wanted to do.
She points out it is crazy since she has to work the next day but she still came all the way to see the Magnolia tree. Two strangers, youngsters come running by, the girl chasing the guy for taking her shoes. They illustrate what being really crazy is. Ju and DJ laugh.
DJ : “When I was their age, I thought I’d become a true adult once I turned 30.”
(She didn’t think that doing silly or crazy things every day of the week was what it was to be an adult. However she is actually not silly or crazy, and she’s very adult or mature.)
DJ : “Do you think being an all round loser is what an adult is?” (Such a negative way of looking at it.)
Ju :: “You now think it’s crazy to do something that you did for fun back in the day. You did what you liked back then, but you think it’s foolish now. So when you want to do something really crazy, this is all you can do.” Ju puts it in perspective and teases her at the same time.
(It’s not exactly wrong to do what we like at different times in our lives. When we look back in some years time, we may also consider what we did as adults as silly … just the way that DJ is now considering that her adult life is being a loser now. I feel that he means that she should just do what she likes regardless of how it will look in the future.)
DJ : “Gosh, you make me want to prove you wrong.” She wants to prove how crazy she can be so they end up renting traditional costumes. DJ is dressed like a scholar in black, while Ju ends up as a long-haired ghost in white LOL.
They attract attention, especially from tourists much to Ju’s embarrassment. He claims to not be having fun but she does not believe him and stares into his eyes.
DJ : “Someone said those who are lying look you in the eye to see if you believe them.” (Those were the words that Ju had written.)
Ju : “So this is why they say those who have read only one book are terrifying.”
DJ : “And you’re the one who wrote and lent me that book.” LOL DJ loves throwing his words back at him. But they are quite at peace and end up going home in the bus together amidst much speculation from the other passengers!
Later on, we get lovely editing of split screens with such smooth transition between Ju and DJ’s homes as they go about doing the same things separately, that it looks like they are together in the same space. For instance, we see Ju walk out of his bathroom and it turns into DJ walking out of hers. Their respective mugs are joined perfectly in the middle of the screen, looking like 1 mug, as they both pour water separately. What a great visual way to make them 1 in mind and heart.
Hello dear..
It’s nice to see some of your comments and analysis.. THANK YOU SO MUCHH!!
I really like You Are My Spring, @011sn, the fact that the rating was hitting the lowest this week has brought me down. I don’t understand why there are so many shows that I think were interesting but got the low rating. I hope the production team, actors and actresses keep their spirit high, despite the low rating.
So far, we’ve kinda walking in the same direction regarding the killer or the culprit. Thanks @GB for summarizing that.
I just suddenly curious, was the man who fell and hurt his head (the one that @011sn got the picture), really dead? What’s his name, Hong Se Geun (HSG)? Did he live with the “mother” of Jeongmin/CJ in 2003?
We don’t know the exact date when IC and CJ met in 2003.. We only know that it was happened in March 2003. In the same month with the death of Kim Myeong Ja. Also, 2003 was the year when young JYD met CJ/IC for the first time in a bar. CJ was washing his clothes that covered with blood, I assume that this was happened maybe after the death of Kim Myeong Ja. In the suicide letter it was wrote “While doing so, her blood splattered on my clothes, so I was very annoyed.”
I also thought that the footsteps IC heard when he was a child (the scene after HSG told “We’ll sell this one to the US today.”) was coming from HSG’s shoes. So this makes me think, did IC realize that he was being followed by two persons (the culprit and the police) or only by one person that the sound he already familiarized with..?
@GB,
I think you pointed out what I’ve been noticing about the split screens. Yes it was great and lovely to visualize them like becoming one.. I’ve seen this before, when DJ called her mother, they did a nice editing of split screens too. They make the left screen and the right screen like connected. The viewers saw that the acts in the left screen as if it was affected the acts in the right screen. Like when DJ turn on the flashlight in the left screen, we see that there was a light shining on the mother’s back in the right screen. I expected more split screens editing for the coming episodes..
and thank you for your recap on their conversation after seeing magnolias. I’ve been thinking what exactly DJ wanted to ask JYD but changed her mind and said never mind instead..
About them wearing the ghost clothes. I was laughing when the tourist wanted to take a picture with them. DJ happily taking their picture together with JYD. Fortunately that JYD wearing a long hair, so that the embarrassed JYD can cover his eyes with that hair.
Hi @moonstar
It’s true that we are never shown without a doubt if the man, Hong Se Geun really died or not. I was wondering what happened after that… like whether the police were called in, if so surely the woman (I assume she was only unconscious) would have been questioned, and would they have questioned Chae Jun?
So if both those adults are still alive, we have the possible #1 or the 3rd person using the twins as camouflage.
Thanks for summarising this here. I need to keep it in mind:
Who is Kim Myeong Ja? I thought that she was the woman we saw unconscious ( or dead) in the twin’s house when Chase showed up and beat up ( or killed) the abusive father.
I also agree that the fake church and its misdeeds in the past are the key to solving the mystery. It seems that both twins are victims, so there must be either a third party or multiple personality disorder involved.
I am intrigued by the mystery, but I am getting bored with anything that’s not related to it.
Hi @Snow Flower
Kim Myeong Ja is the victim of the 2003 murder.I have not compared her with the lady who was unconscious on the floor to see if they are the same person.
I like this show for the snippets of info on interpreting the ‘weird’ behaviour of those who are mentally unwell, for the characters interactions and for the mystery. I appreciate the effort Show makes in it’s camerawork and editing, and the music is appropriate.
Does anything about this Show inspire you to compose a piece of music?
@Snow Flower, I believe you’re right. Kim Myeong Ja is the same woman who was knocked out and on the floor in 2003 and the one who opened the door and was killed. Does she look the same?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1DeltfDAB3tdM1U8bOzG1MhU19S0xQW-g/view?usp=sharing
I thought that the unconscious (or already dead) woman was in that state before Chase showed up as his twin to beat up the abusive father. I am still not sure how or when she died. The abusive father must have survived because there was nothing about him in the confession letter. We still don’t know much about the third victim (the man killed in the empty 99 building) or how he is connected to the other two murders.
I just completed episode 5. I adore this show. The thriller part is interesting but it’s the characters that I enjoy. I like his friends, his ex wife and her “hello”, her mom, her female hoobae. The dialogue is so zippy and I thank you so much GB for your transcriptions. I even looked up the writer…has anyone seen bubblegum?? I haven’t even heard of it. Anyway, just chiming in to say I’m watching too and thank you for the discussion.
Just finished episode 6 and studying all of your timelines and theories. A few questions/thoughts:
1. Who had it worse? Ian in USA or CJ who was left in SK. When he says “remember all I’ve done for you” it felt like he sacrificed himself to go to USA but it didn’t look like the situation CJ was left in was anything to covet. Is their relationship contentious because one went and one stayed or was it already contentious because one was a psychopath. Or is he strictly referring to killing (or watching die) the abusive ‘father’. Also, how did he get to SK and know how to find his brother?
2. Using that term ‘psychopath’ reminds me of the lecture we heard at the beginning on the difference between psychopath and sociopath. I wonder if that will come up again?
3. The theory of the water dripping without knowing the cause—-Maybe the water will play the part of the black cat like in the Poe story? It will allow a truth to be revealed
4. Speaking of, where is the cute little black cat the vet was showing pictures of?
5. I usually get annoyed when there’s so many characters and stories but I’m finding I’m interested in all of them. From his ex wife, her gym coach/friend, the man who gave the mom slippers, the girl twin breaking up with her bf and her awful blind date. I haven’t found myself wanting to hit the FFWD button at any part or storyline. And the receptionist/nurse doing the idol dance?! Funny!
6. At first I thought they showed the homeless guy with the skin condition to explain why the prints might be off on the envelope but now I’m wondering if he’s the guy in the Internet cafe? Is he a homeless guy or in disguise??? I can’t decide.
7. My favorite split shot was the flashlight/headlight. It was just cool.
8. Is Ian Chase a neurosurgeon? Did I make that up? I need to go back and check. If so, I can’t imagine having a neurosurgeon performing abdominal surgery in a hospital. Something about that whole situation just threw me off. Maybe just too much hospital playlist.
9. Was Ian the guy that came to visit the doctor (what’s the ML name?) ju? Or was it CJ the whole time. That part still confuses me.
10. What did the dr see when he was watching the tape?
11. Why did Ian get so upset when she said the thing about moving a guest because she felt uncomfortable. Isn’t that why he offered in the first place? Was he looking for reassurance? Was he pleased when she said she didn’t think CJ would hurt her?
I think that’s all for now 😉
Hi @birdie007
It’s good to know that there are more of us enjoying this show. It is able to capture interest in all areas so that every side story is engaging while the mystery hovers.
I did watch Bubblegum which was a friends-to-lovers show with the complication of a mum with dementia. Not as engaging as this one although the characters were interesting.
About your thoughts:
1) We’re still guessing about who went to the US and who stayed in SKorea. At first I thought it would be clear cut ie Chae Jun whose fingerprints tells the police that he’s really Jeong Min stayed, and Ian Chase was the one in the US.
But we are given Chase’s backstory in his memories/dreams and he claimed to be Jeong Min. So did Jeong Min (the older twin I think) do a favour for the younger twin by going in his place to the US? Nothing is conclusive. And if we take Chase’s memories as correct, then if he is Jeong Min, what is the real name of Chae Jun?
We have loads of questions to ask like what does he mean by: “Don’t forget, how far I went for you. A shadow shouldn’t covet the light. Because it will vanish.”
I was commenting on the word ‘far’… did it include literal geographical distance? Did it also include him not only going to the US but returning to help his brother against a violent Hong Se Geun?
Was Chae Jun regarded as the shadow who should not covet being noticed like his brother? If so, why should he be considered the shadow? Did those words mean that when the light (Chase?) came back, the shadow should vanish so that there is only one of them? Was the suicide CJ’s part of the deal, ie to vanish?
2) Thanks for reminding me about Ju’s lecture. We can keep it in mind to see if it gives clues as to Chase’s personality, ie whether he’s just a little weird and traumatised or if he’s the sociopath. We are told that Chase arrived as part of a medical team, but we do not know if he had actually arrived earlier and been the one to visit Dr Ju, and been diagnosed as a sociopath.
Ju’s Lecture in Ep 2 around timestamp 40:03: “Those with antisocial personality disorder, also called sociopaths, are different from psychopaths. There’s nothing wrong with the structure of their brain. however, studies have shown that their cerebral cortex reacts differently to the average person’s.
When average people read ‘mother’ and ‘strictness,’ they become more sensitive to the former because it is related to their emotions. When this individual reads the word, ‘mother,’ blood flow increases in their temporal lobe.”
Such a reaction usually happens when you’re calculating numbers. In other words, sociopaths need to recognise and calculate before expressing emotional reactions to look like a normal person. The problem here is that they’re quick. So much so that they often look much more empathetic than most people.”
I didn’t really notice Chase looking empathetic. His expression is generally hard and cold.
As for the rest, I too am surprised that there’s no sign of the black cat. It was just a ‘prop’ unless it turns up again.
Yes, Ian Chase is supposed to be a neurosurgeon and yes it was weird that he could do surgery on the abdomen at a pinch.
10) I thought Ju was watching the recording to see if the gait of the men could lead to recognising them or if their gait was similar.
11) I didn’t interpret Chase as being upset. I though that when DJ admitted that he did make her uncomfortable, he saw it as a good time to leave. Granted he did leave quite abruptly.
Thanks @GB for clarifying!!
10) it seemed like he noticed something while watching. I just couldn’t figure out what it was
@GB, the line “Would you like to eat Ramyeon?” is like a pick up line to the Koreans. When DL ask JYD if he is following her to the hotel and JYD replied with “would you like to eat ramyeon?” I think DJ can’t help teasing him.
Pick up line explanation here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Fine_Spring_Day.
I am back reading and thank you for the analysis and transcripts, they help me pick up many things that I missed out on my first watch.
Hi @Feifei, Thanks for the link.
Yes, that pick-up line has a very ‘strong’ meaning, as confirmed by wikipedia. LOL.
Even when said most innocently, as by JYD, it is deliberately misinterpreted so that the innocent speaker gets all embarrassed. DJ cleverly rearranged the words in that sentence so that it does not sound like the pick-up line.
I hope the analysis and transcripts give a accurate ‘reading’ of what’s going on. I always declare that they are just my take on what’s going on based on my understanding, therefore others may gather more or different ideas from the same scenes. 🙂