83 Comments On “Red Sleeve: Eps 5 & 6 Open Thread”
Cleopatra
Bring it on Tiger! LOL
Facebook Status: Crown Prince is determined in the location Palace.
Kalimera @Packmule3!
Let’s see what will happen tonight after that cliffhanger!
GrowingBeautifully (GB)
Thanks @pkml3.
Hmmm usually the lipstick is not so obvious but these gifs make Junho look overly lipsticked!! I still like his crooked smile!
grace
My weekend shows are here!! Of all the dramas I am watching, I am loving this most so far, taking notice of Junho a bit more. I love how the colour tone is so pink because of the young court ladies attire, coupled with the green lush planting. Secret Inspector Joy has a more earthy colour tone.
Yes. Episode 5 is out and it’s 98% subbed. Woohoo! I’m glad I sent everybody out today. hahaha.
Cleopatra
@packmule3,
Daebak! I will saw it later…!
I need to finish something first… ๐
Phoenix
I just watched episode 5 and a lot of couple moments in this one๐ This drama is growing on me with its slowly developing forbidden romance. I liked the interactions at the beginning on the road when the prince confesses, and I really liked the poetry reading at night with just the screen separating them. Junho’s acting was spot on when he was describing why he is enduring his grandfather’s behavior. Is it just me or does the prince’s secretary seem untrustworthy?
I’m going watch to re-watch parts of ep.5 now – I already feel the beginnings of angsty slow burn romance๐
Cleopatra
Anneyong!
What a great episode! JunHo tonight was amazing! I am very impressed with how he is expressing himself and how he is holding back too.
I agree with @Phoenix his confession was amazing. He is smitten with Deok Im and it shows. At times, she has him in her palm.
The politics in the Palace are a mess. Head Court Lady Jo doesn’t want San because of what his late father did. Princess Hwawan and her son are plotting against him as well for their own reasons. Basically a lot of people are against him with different agendas.
Even his own mother, in a way, is plotting against him. She knew that Deok Im was happy to see the Crown Prince and she basically ruined DI’s Special Day by forcing him to say in front of her, that he won’t take a Concubine of poor background.
@Phoenix, I don’t trust the secretary as well. He ordered to kill our girl in the spot and HE KNEW exactly who she was. He is a mean man and he has his own plot. The way he asked her if the Crown Prince has feelings for her is to be noticed.
I am impressed by Deok Im and the way she went into the Crown Prince’s chamber, even though she knew that if she was found in, she would be sentenced to death by the King himself.
Deok Im is San’s perfect match from Heaven. She used as an excuse that she will reveal to him what is in her heart. She basically comforted him with the only way she could. She sworn her allegiance to serve and protect Yi San. Those tears in his face showed it all.
I like how their romance is progressing. From a touch of frienship to a touch of mutual understanding that will become deeper as time passes by.
It is happening already! What a great story to watch!
Phoenix
Absolutely agree with you, @Cleopatra. I think they will find that they can depend only on each other when everyone else around them turns out to be traitorous. It’s such a beautifully unfolding closeness, when they both know they can’t have any sort of relationship because of the difference in their stations. Can’t wait for tomorrow’s episode.
Cleopatra
@Phoenix,
They can. As long as the King gives his permission it can happen. Also Episode 1 was a foreshadow.
Their characters are based on the real King and his Concubine.
I think @nrllee posted information about it.
Same over here! I am watching that last scene. What a scene…!
Phoenix
Yes, they did get married in the end, as per history, though DI does die some time after marriage. Their love story was dramatized in old another Korean drama – Lee San, Wind of the Palace (2007) where Ha Ji-min played DI’s character. It was of course much before I started watching kdramas in 2016, but I read about it when Red Sleeve Cuff was announced.
By the way, I liked the poem at the end so much that I did my research on ‘The Book of Odes’. ‘The Book of Odes’ (or Shi king/ching, also translated as ‘The Classic of Poetry’ or ‘The Book of Songs’) is a collection of poems written by various anonymous authors over several centuries. The poem DI was reciting is from The Odes of Bei. Here is the internet translation of the Chinese poem:
Cold blows the north wind;
Thick falls the snow.
Ye who love and regard me,
Let us join hands and go together.
Is it a time for delay?
The urgency is extreme!
The north wind whistles;
The snow falls and drifts about.
Ye who love and regard me,
Let us join hands, and go away for ever.
Is it a time for delay?
The urgency is extreme!
Nothing red is seen but foxes,
Nothing black but crows.
Ye who love and regard me,
Let us join hands, and go together in our carriages.
Is it a time for delay?
The urgency is extreme!
The drama translation of the poem as per Viki is slightly different, through the gist is the same:
The north wind is chilly,
the falling snow is thick,
If you are affectionate and love me.
I will hold your hand and go with you.
You are so modest, you are so slow,
but oh, there is urgency!
Are foxes only red and ravens only black?
If you are affectionate and love me.
I will hold your hand and part with you.
The north wind is cold
the falling snow is voluminous
If you love me and are affectionate
With the one I love and who likes me
I’ll hold your hand and part with you.
Why do you hesitate so? Oh, there is urgency!
The north wind is chilly
the falling snow is thick
If you are affectionate and love me
I’ll hold your hand and go back with you.
Are foxes only red and ravens only black?
If you are affectionate and love me.
I will hold your hand and go in your carriage.
I loved this joint recitation of the poem by both of them – it felt like a confession from them, voicing their feelings through the words of the poem.
On another not, I really feel for Yi San, it’s like the sins of the father are visited on him, for no fault of him. Everyone suspects him of descending into madness and killing people like his father, and hence deems him to be unfit for the throne. I think he has to doubly prove himself in everything that he does, just to demonstrate that he is not like his father. It becomes more difficult as he is the splitting image of his father and obviously people expect him to turn out just like his father. I think he is too serious and disciplined because of this, and holds himself in check all the time. DI is like the only ray of light for him, possibly the only time he smiles.
Good Twin
Any thoughts on the elder court lady who came in during the ceremony? There was some obvious tension between her and the head court lady. Who was the pupil she was mentoring? She had a limp but I wonder if it was age or an injury inflicted on her by the mad crown prince? The tension between the two may be related to the mad prince or court intrigue. The poem was beautiful – thank you for printing it out. I like the Viki translation better but maybe because of Junhoโs voice. While I think she enjoyed his favoring her to that point – she fell in love with him when he said what kind of king he would be.
GrowingBeautifully (GB)
@Phoenix, @Cleo, @Good Twin
Thanks for the 2 translations of the poem, @Phoenix. Yes, it sounded like a confession, and when recited by both, a mutual confession.
It was a poem that DI chose, so, she was possibly giving him a message. He’d told her that he was captivated by her. Choosing to do the night shift and to bring that book to read was her response. She was saying that if he had regard for her or because he did, (she would go with him/stay with him) she would support him as best she could. After the king left them, she went in to look San in the eye and to lay out the sentiments of the poem, or rather her own sentiments, in no uncertain terms.
Yes as @Cleo says, it was to comfort him and to let him know that despite his mother and other intrigue, that she was on his side.
When she noted that the fraught relationship with grandfather king had been going on for some time, I wonder if DI remembered that she’d met San when they were children, and how afraid San had been at being found in his grandmother’s room.
Grandpa does not know any better way of bringing up his beloved grandson than to punish him into being different from his dad. Poor San’s life has been blighted by his father.
I agree that he’s in the position where he’s constantly doubly trying to prove that he’s not like his father. He is always under stress, knowing he has to excel, and to be above criticism. Poor chap does not seem to have had a happy-go-lucky day in his life.
He needs to skip some stones on the pond with DI!
GrowingBeautifully (GB)
Adding further to why DI entered the Prince’s quarters to pledge her loyalty to him.
It was to make up for what had happened in the beginning when he’d saved her from being killed.
Before the secret meeting DI said to San : “I came all the way here under Princess Hyebin’s command.”
San : “Have you gathered what sort of place this is, what I am doing here, and why?”
DI : “All I know is that you’re attending to work of importance. I failed you, Your Highness. I shall not make the same mistake twice.”
San goes on the floor where she sits to hold her up by her shoulder, so that he can look into her eyes : “Since when have you relied on my mother’s patronage? I believed you were under mine. when Princess Hwawan was going to do away with you, I stood in her way. Were you even then, serving my mother?”
DI is silent. She was beholden towards his mother for keeping her and her brother alive. San was more concerned that he did not have as much influence over her as he thought. And particularly concerned that she was with him because of his mother and not for his own sake. He was hoping for loyalty to himself.
He speaks of her death being the means to silence her but she does not react.
San : “Why are you not afraid? I can cut short your life this very minute.”
DI : “Yes, you hold my life in your hands. I should be scared, but I do not know why I am not fearful.”
He tries to sack her as a court lady and tells her to leave the place grounds. This elicits more response from her than a threat to her life LOL.
DI : “Your Highness!” โฆ”Truly, my lord? Please forgive me. It was only on my firm belief that you would save me from my fate. I believed in my heart that my lord does not wish to see me die, but that I would, were I to forsake the wishes of Princess Hyebin. I did not want to die.”
(LOL in other words, his mum was more scary than him! So it sounded like she was more loyal to his mother out of fear.)
“Why did you not inform me of this? You followed my mother’s commands while turning your back on me.”
(This is a question of whom she was loyal to again. He stressed from before, that he would be the one to decide what happened to his own people, the ones who served him. He would take care of them but he expected unflinching loyalty in return. Hence he broke the rules to hunt the tiger on his own, without the king’s permission, in order to keep his people safe.)
So at the end of the episode, when DI chose to do the night shift, she brought the poem to read to profess her loyalty to San.
grace
Catching up with your comments when I can, currently only watching halfway through episode 5 and bringing kids out to play before I come back and finish the rest of the episode.
The prince’s secretary is certainly suspicious. Historically, I think the Prince got rid of his secretary much later on. I didn’t like how he looked down on the court maids, that their opinions do not matter. And it probably reflects a majority of nobles in their view of the lower class.
I loved the Prince’s confession to DeokIm. Not your usual “I like you”. Historically, he confessed to her 3 times, before she accepted him. There were strong reasons why she couldn’t, I can’t remember for now, will go find out later.
GrowingBeautifully (GB)
Yi San and Deok Im: The Signs of Yi San’s Feelings for her
It’s sweet that San does not try too hard to hide his feelings or to lie.
1) It immediately becomes obvious that DI is a favourite of San’s, since he took time to speak with her before the secret meeting, and even allowed her to sit in to listen. She ends up being a member of the “The Dongdeok Order”.
2) As a sign of how meticulous Yi San is, he has looked into DI’s background and memorised her family’s name, and her friends’ names. I was impressed. It shows he is extremely careful about whom he trusts. It also shows that he’s interested enough in this lowly court lady to have bothered.
I wish he’d double check on his friend Hong Deok Ro as well, since the Hong clan are constantly out to get him.
3) He bothered to go on a book shopping spree and to bestow precious texts on her, deigning even to offer to explain difficult passages. San was under the impression that he was showing her great patronage and that she’d be impressed to have him as her teacher. She, however thought of this as punishment LOL.
San : “You don’t look very happy.
DI : “Yes, I am very.”
San : “Truly?”
DI : “Truly, my lord. My shortcomings today were great, but received a light rather than heavy punishment. I am moved by your kindness.”
San : “What punishment? I present you with these priceless texts and offer to explain difficult passages. How is that punishment?”
She’s taken aback that this might be a reward. LOL
โฆ
San : “Enough of that. It pains me to see you waste your time on senseless stories, so this is my special gift to you.”
DI : “I once escaped the claws of a tiger by reading a book (a novel).”
San : “The circumstances were dire and you had to gather the court ladies. Something as little as a drop of honey will help gather in the bees or ants, wouldn’t you say?”
DI : “Are the ladies of the court a colony of ants? Gyeomsaseo, that’s a bit offensive โฆ”
They stopped when she realised her mistake.
San : “A few moments ago, even when I said I could have you killed, you were not fearful. Now I know why.” (It was hard for DI to be scared of someone at whom she had been throwing salt and kicking out of the library LOL) “To you, I am still the gyeomsaseo from the past.”
Instead of getting angry, San sighs : “I still wonder why I pretended to be a gyeomsaseo. At first, I saw no need to correct you. But as time passed, I lost the will to tell you. That’s because the moments we shared in the library were special to me. The moments we were together there, I thought you were captivated by me.”
(I wonder why he should think so, since much of her behaviour towards him had been rude. She’d argued with and grumbled at him.) “But I’m not sure anymore. Did I captivate you? Were you really captivated by me? Or was it that I was captivated by you?”
Isn’t an honest man, making a sincere confession, just so hot!!! (*fans self*)
4)Yi San is aghast to see DI dressed up in ceremonial garb. Regardless of his retinue, he runs across to her and grabs her arm.
“Why did you tie you hair up like a married woman? Did you by any chance come into the favour of His Majesty?” (He was afraid that he’d lose her to the king who’d accumulated many concubines.
He had just made a fool of himself, over a girl, in front of a bunch of retainers. His personal bodyguard said to the Eunuch : “I feel a personal affinity towards His Highness today. He just made a clown of himself.”
(Bodyguard Kang Tae Ho felt that the Crown Prince was relatable, when it came to making a mistake. He’d been made to feel like a fool when he questioned San over DI before, so now it’s like karma, that San made a fool of himself, and over the same girl).
5) Princess Hyebin engineers that DI should be disillusioned should she think that she can become San’s concubine.
San to his mother : “Don’t you know, mother? I’ve never even once known a lady of the court.”
Princess Hyebin : “That may not be the case in the future.”
San : “You are mistaken, mother. As for me, I have no intention of keeping a woman of humble status beside me. (These are the words that he contradicts at the end of the episode when he asks DI to just stay by his side).
When the curtain is raised and San sees that DI has heard what he said and looks upset, he feels bad for her. He is mindful enough of his servant’s feelings, to understand that she’s been hurt on her special Coming-of-Age day.
6) When DI came to serve him the night of his punishment, he did not mind that she saw him at his worst and he was open with her.
San : “I thought you were angry with me from the day of the ceremony.”
DI : “How could I ever be angry with you, my lord?”
San : “The one day set aside for you, I ruined it for you. I know you were unhappy.”
DI : “No, my lord. It was for the better, for now I know where my lord’s true heart lies.”
San : “You do not know where my true heart lies. While neither do I know where your true heart lies.” (This is harks back to the unanswered question on whether he captivated her or not.)
These words and what he had said earlier to her when he confessed that he liked her might have remained in her mind. They are interrupted by grandpa king being violent in an effort to beat the ‘mad father’ out of poor San.
After the king leaves, DI : “May I ask a question, my lord?”
San : “You may.”
DI : “Do you bear it because you have no other choice?”
He’s trembling with emotion as he replies : “I hold back to attain my aims, and I bear it to get what I want. I know what pain is. And I know how many others are also suffering. I am the Crown Prince of this land. One day I will have the strength. with that strength, there are so many who I can help. I have so many plans in store for the future. Do you know? As for you, just stay by my side. That’ll be enough.”
(Meaning both to physically stay close as well as to be loyal to him. It rather contradicts what he said about keeping a low born woman by his side.)
She thinks about what he said as enough, and decides that it’s not enough. She goes into San’s room.
DI : “There is something I must tell you, my lord. It is what is in my heart of hearts.” (An answer to his saying he did not know where her true heart lies.)
She looks up at him : “Until the succession day to the throne, my lord may rest assured that I will be a loyal assistant and protector. (This is partly to fulfill what Prince Hyebin ordered her to do.) I believe my lord will achieve his ends.”
San : “You’re merely a lady of the court, how will you protect me?”
DI : “I am merely a court lady, but I am your servant. I will remain by your side until the very end as your loyal servant. Until the day life leaves me, I shall assist and protect you, my lord.” (As a servant, she has better access to him than others of higher status.)
She offers him a formal bow (of obeisance?) and looks him straight in the eyesโฆ something that is not required of her by Hyebin, or even by San. San is very touched as evidenced by his tears.
Phoenix
Thank you, @GB for recapping those interactions in such detail. I too find an otherwise controlled man expressing his feelings honestly, instead of the MLs like Chief Hong who are overly extroverted. I’m totally hooked by Junho’s portrayal of future King Jeongjo, his acting shows so much depth of unspoken emotions. I’m still not impressed by the FL here, but maybe she will grow on me. I liked her better in this episode, though Junho’s recitation was far more emotional than hers.
I noticed too that DI was surprised by the fact that YS had looked into her background, she didn’t expect him to be so interested. I have a feeling YS will now trust DI with more weighty state-related tasks, knowing that she is intelligent and has an opinion about things.
YS doesn’t dismiss DI’s feelings as insignificant, as a prince surely can. He takes time to explain things to her and even almost apologizes for spoiling her ceremony day. This is in sharp contrast to how the secretary and others view her – as a lowly servant beneath attention with no will or say of her own, whose opinion doesn’t matter. This is what I like about their relationship- let’s face it, the crown prince has all the say in this power equation and this could so easily have been an unequal relationship because he can force her to do anything. But we never feel that she is compelled. DI feels it too on a subconscious level, and that’s why she wasn’t scared of someone who is actually her master and the all-powerful would-be king holding her life in his hands. This aspect is very unique and shows how considerate YS is as a person.
Phoenix
@grace I didn’t know that historically King Jeongjo had confesses to Deok Im three times begore she accepted. Thank you for that interesting info๐
Phoenix
@Good Twin: Yes after reading your comment, I’m wondering why the old court lady was introduced to the narrative suddenly unlessshe has a role to play later. Maybe there will be some flashback on why there is that enmity between the current leading court lady (who opposes Yi San by the way) and the old one. Interesting point to note, thank you for that๐
GrowingBeautifully (GB)
@Good Twin @Phoenix, About the aged Court Lady Park, I recall she appeared once before in another episode also looking very doddering. I wondered then if it was to remind us of what Head Court Lady had told DI, ie that the Court Ladies aimed to be able to die in the palace and to have a nice send off. Perhaps Court Lady Park, who looks to be on her last legs, is to bring this point into focus once again. The difference between her send off and the one DI had witnessed may be a catalyst for something.
As for the backstory of why Head Court Lady had that look on her face when she saw Lady Park, we’ll have to hope to be told or shown.
What we gathered from this episode is that Lady Park is the mentor of DI’s friend, Young Hui.
Cleopatra
I really enjoyed all your comments!
@GB Unnie thank you for trascribing those scenes. I would also do so but you got me first!
I have watched three times the confession scene and more than five times the last scene.
@Phoenix, I am feeling that in this episode Yi San had the lights upon him. That’s why JunHo was amazing. It was revealed to us how is the Crown Prince’s life. How he is being treated by his grandfather the King. Even how his own mother treats him! He heard why he wants to be a King. What is in his mind.
Until know we didn’t know. He was unreadable. We only knew that he is attracted to Deok Im.
I believe that Lee Se-Young will shine tonight. Mostly because she has given us plenty of moments of her good acting. They are a good match and I am enjoying their chemistry.
For instance, in the last scene after the poem reciting, she got emotional as well after having witnessing what the King did to the Crown Prince. While she asked him that question, San answered to her sincerely when he was hearbroken and emotional. His guard was completely doing and he was crying and Deok Im knew that.
That sequence of events in such a short time changed the way she was looking at him. @GoodTwin has a point. She fell in love with him at that moment exactly. Deok Im was in pain herself, even though she hid it behind her stoic persona, but her glance revealed it all. Because that she was trained to do as a Court Lady.
That for me is great acting from Se Young. As I said to someone a few days ago, you can have a pockerface, but your eyes reveal it all.
Hence when moments later, Deok Im swore allegiance to San, she was able to saw his tears herself.
Another moment of great significance as @GB Unnie wrote above. The whole scene strenghtened their bond: Firstly as San’s servant, then as library friends and lastly as potential lovers.
GrowingBeautifully (GB)
@Cleo,
I really like what Show is doing so that San does not remain a cipher. It has humanised him so much so we can forgive his fussiness or when he’s high-handed with his servants. He was very patient with DI when she first had to serve him. Yes, I liked that Show has given us the moments and transitions from stranger who dissed him but yet who could speak stoutly with him, to affronted servant, to court lady and companion. We can see why they would fall in love.
I only felt that the camera may have got the wrong angle for Lee Se Yong when she was staring supposedly at San on the street. It didn’t look as if she was looking at him, for some reason, but like it was a vacant stare. She tends to have small irises, therefore if she opens her eyes wider, there’s too much white and she looks like her eyes are popping out. However, I’m fine with her acting. She’s balancing the being spirited and yet being restraint and respectful quite well.
About when DI fell in love with San. I actually felt that when he spoke to his mother, it was a more impressive recital. He said “I’ve known nothing but the comforts of life as the Crown Prince. But as I ate rare foods and wore expensive clothes of silk, I grew a sense of responsibility. That I shall dedicate my life to the good of the Joseon Dynasty. And put its interests above those of my private life.” However at this time, DI was already upset at hearing him dismiss the low born ladies.
But later, when he told her very emotionally that he wanted to help his subjects and that he was bearing with the ill-treatment in order to be able to put the interests of Joseon above his own, then DI decided to see him face to face. Yes, it might have been then that she confirmed she could fall in love with him, but she might have been moved already much earlier.
Cleopatra
@GB Unnie,
You are right about that scene, but it was not Se Young’s fault here. It was the director’s and photograph director’s who didn’t noticed how she was being filmed.
I really like Se Young as an actress. I have watched her in the “Korean Odyssey” and in the “Memorist”. She was a bundle of joy in the first one and a respected and solemn Profiler in the second one.
I think she fell in love with him before that. The exact time would be when she went to the King to ask him to forgive the Crown Prince. She wanted to save her Nari at that time, but she did it for Yi San without knowing who he was then. That means she liked him from that time and forward.
Also, he saved her life when his cruel Aunt – Princess wanted to kill her. Then, she had to face his Mother – Princess, who almost got her killed again! I mean let us be honest. Who in his / her right mind would be okay after all these incidents that in a span of few days his / her life would be in danger twice, like she was nothing.
Deok Im is a brave girl / woman who got herself involved into the Palace politics. Even the Head Court Lady is plotting against the Crown Prince, but at the same time in court, she is trying to play matchmaker. She wants Deok Im to be the Royal Concumbine.
As for the old Mammanim Park, I agree with @GB Unnie, we saw her before and she seems to be at odds with the Current Head Court Lady. I do hope she has power in her hands even though she is frail because of her old age.
Unfortunately, Viki didn’t translate tonight’s preview. We only know that Deok Im will take all measures to clean Yi San’s name using not only “DongDeok Order”, but getting help from the current Queen.
grace
@GB I loved that scene when San confronted DI, I felt she was really smart in being able to turn his ‘scoldings’ to a praise. And later on from the book shopping to his confession to her.
Their closeness grew from the library meetings and although DeokIm was upset with San for ‘tricking’ her, we all understand why he didn’t want to reveal his identity. That will create a clear master/servant line between both of them which he can’t bear to because he must have enjoyed her company a lot, to be able to converse comfortably.
I like how @phoenix describes the dynamics of the San and DI, it is really a special one and obvious that her mind and opinions attracted him. It was when they were able to converse as somewhat equals, did their connection begin. There was no barriers like how a court maid and a king would converse.
Historyically, one of the reasons why DeokIm rejected San, I read someome’s post on twitter, that it was because Queen Hyui (Yisan’s 1st wife) and DeokIm were close; and that Deokim was Yisan’s mum’s court lady since she was 10.
I’m not sure about the validity of the source so I’m kinda reading up a little bit from more proper sources. DeokIm was the only one whom San chose for a concubine. All the other concubines and the queen were chosen by the palace (more like for his duty as a king to produce a son).
ok off to finish the rest of the episode, looking forward to the poetry scene. *heart eyes*
grace
Some back story on the poem called “North Wind”. It is from the Book of Odes, the oldest existing collection of Chinese poetry from the 11th-7th BC. A classic book of 300 poems/songs, it is a revered Confucian classic.
Some explanations of the poem describes the political situation of the Zhou dynasty and how one side wants to make an escape together. Wind and snow are metaphors for the unstable situation, as if really dire.
The fox and crow are metaphors for the incompetent or evil people in charge that has caused the chaos. And we know how the fox is usually sly; and the crow brings to mind, a sinister bird, usually a harbinger of misfortune or death.
Of course other interpretations include what we see in the translations in the drama. About a man and woman eloping because they are not embraced by the people around them.
Actually because this was such an old book and there was a period when Emperior Qin Shi Huang burned many books, the original story of Houyi who shot down the 9 (red) suns and Houyi’s wife Chunhu (Black) fox, got lost. So it is said that the original should be referring to the black fox and the red raven. I thought their translation “Are foxes only red and ravens only black?” seemed to relate to the idea of the original poem.
Nonetheless, to me it was a poem with two meanings. Of how DeokIm feels about her situation with YiSan, that she would want him to be clear with his intentions but also reading her feelings in the poem. 2. Of the political situation in the palace.
When Yisan admitted how his words has ruined an important day for DeokIm, he did not ignore her feelings but acknowledged them. He is one who is able to empathise and see others point of view. He is not selfish and self-seeking. THAT is probably what DeokIm saw, and admired.
grace
Oh to clarify about the red sun represented red ravens because when Houyi shot down the 9 suns that burned the earth, 9 3-legged ravens (for each red sun) fell.
Cleopatra
After that ending are we supposed to wait until next Friday?
More tomorrow…
GrowingBeautifully (GB)
Still on Episode 5 … Thank you @Grace for the background and the interpretations of the classic poem, ‘North Wind’. It has brought greater clarity and insight into what Deok Im might have been thinking. It reflects the situation (both political and personal) that we are watching, and it resonates with our characters. Hence alternately reciting the lines between them, DI and San can be speaking of more than one thing at the same time, and neither may know exactly to which interpretation the other refers, or that they both meant the same thing or not.
It might have started off as DI wanting to give San comfort, since his books were taken away, and as San wanting to just hear another human voice to keep him company, in his boredom. But interspersed with their honest conversation in which, as you say, San showed that he did not dismiss her feelings, and interrupted by the king’s outburst of grandfatherly fears, the poem took on an added significance.
Taking from the translation that @Phoenix’s posted above:
“The north wind is chilly
the falling snow is thick
If you are affectionate and love me
Iโll hold your hand and go back with you.
Are foxes only red and ravens only black?
If you are affectionate and love me.
I will hold your hand and go in your carriage.”
San told her that he would continue to endure whatever it took to reach his goal to be a good king, and asked that she remain on his side, by his side. This reflected the sentiment of the poem, while it told DI what was in San’s heart of hearts.
I agree with you that:
Nonetheless, to me it was a poem with two meanings. Of how DeokIm feels about her situation with YiSan, that she would want him to be clear with his intentions but also reading her feelings in the poem. 2. Of the political situation in the palace.
So DI wanted to ensure that they were on the same page, and that there were no misinterpretations (of the poem, of what San had asked her about whether he captivated her or not, and what had transpired in their conversation that night).
DI insisted on entering into his presence, to see him face-to-face, to state what was in her heart as well. She promised to literally and metaphorically hold his hand, go away with him, enter his carriage and to love him as her king.
She would be his servant, ie she would take his lead. We know San’s intentions as the future king, now we have to see if he will make his intentions clear regarding DI in his life.
Phoenix
Episode 6 made me giddy๐ฅฐ..Yi San called Deok Im “You are my person” twice, and gave me flashbacks of 4th Prince/Wang So calling Hae Soon that in memorable scenes from Moin Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo.
I’m starting to hate that weird creepy smile of the secretary..he’s very weird.
Snow Flower
Thank you everyone for the poem, its history, and interpretation.
I agree that tutor/librarian/secretary Hong is creepy. I have not seen the actor before, but he is doing a good job. I remember Lee Se Young from The Crowned Clown and Kairos. I have never seen Junho in anything. I am impressed by his portrayal of the Crown Prince. The actor who plays the old King Yeongjo is outstanding as well.
Phoenix
@grace Thank you for the explanation of the raven and the fox. I was wondering what that line meant in the context of the poem because YS asked DI if she understands the meaning, the way he teases her about being naive๐
@Snow Flower I agree, the actor playing the king is great. I found the queen in episode 6 interesting too, she seems to be another important part of the palace politics. I was impressed how inexperienced DI was able to navigate the politics and free YS.
The fall at the end was a bit clumsy though ๐
Snow Flower
@Phoenix, I was rather surprised by the Queen’s portrayal in this drama. In other dramas about King Jeongjo (Conspiracy in the Court and Eight Days) that same Queen is shown as an enemy of Yi San.
Phoenix
@Snow Flower Interesting info, I didn’t know that. Well, dramas do take liberty with history, hence the disclaimer at the beginning. Wonder historically if the queen qas for or against king Jeongjo’s ascension to the throne. Here they may have put up the princess as the antagonist instead of the king, because she wants to make her adopted son the king.
Phoenix
*instead of the queen, I mean. The queen seems to be a sympathetic character so far.
GrowingBeautifully (GB)
@Phoenix, I always am hopeful that the characters who look nice are really trustworthy, especially in court intrigue, but I’m also not surprised at the betrayals.
So far DI has been fortunate.
– The King was friendly with her as a child, and although displeased with her request to forgive San when she was almost of age, he didn’t carry out his threat to have her killed. He turns at a drop of a hat.
– The Head Court Lady seemed to like DI’s honesty, her courage, etc and to look favourably upon her, hence she had the opportunities to meet the crown prince and king. But Head Ct Lady is out to get rid of San, and so will be DI’s enemy.
– The Queen is another one good at playing the waiting game, and at making use of people. She does not do favours for free.
San says of the Queen : “The Queen is forminable. She seats a naรฏve maid in front of her, and disarms her with games of riddles to pry out the information she is looking for.” So she appears nice but one cannot trust her entirely.
By contrast, someone so out and out against DI and Yi San is easier to deal with. Immediately San gives instructions to watch Princess Hwaran and her son. However it’s not evident that he ever considered Deok Ro a possible traitor.
It’s interesting that Deok Ro tells DI not to befriend his sister. It’s like he’s determined that they’ll be on opposite sides and it is best they do not complicate matters by becoming friends at all.
GrowingBeautifully (GB)
Deok Ro, the Gyeomsaseo and his performance on the bridge
DR’s family seems to be poor. He did not have new court robes, only ones that had been mended. DR asks his sister, Dan if she likes the palace. She does and he says good.
DI who is listening wonders why he said ‘Good.’ (There is perhaps a plan to get his sister to enter the palace?)
DR to DI : “I never thought my sister would come with you, my lady.”
DI : “I was surprised. I never thought she was your sister.
DR : “Thank you. she’s a timid girl and she would have been deeply discouraged.”
DI : “I didn’t think you’d ever thank me.” (He’d looked down on her before.)
They are on a bridge over a pond, clearly visible to any person who happened to be outside.
DR : “But next time, don’t ever do this again. Don’t ingratiate yourself to my sister.
DI is surprised : “I didn’t ask for your gratitude.”
DR : “Don’t even think about being friendly with my sister. Such a relationship is inadvisable.” (He does not want to be on a friendly footing with her or for his sister to become attached to DI. He is looking ahead to when they will be enemies?)
DI : “I doubt that I will ever see her again.”
DR gives a smile (the creepy one) that looks like trouble : “Don’t be so sure about that. In order to repay my sister’s debt, I will give you a piece of news that you may find interesting.”
The performance on the bridge – DR grabs DI’s shoulder to draw her very near and says close to her ear : “Her Highness the Queen secretly persuaded His Majesty to lift the Crown Prince’s confinement order. (He leans back to look closely at her face) Oh my. You were already aware of this. So, was it you that persuaded the Queen?”
He refused to let go of her shoulder when she tried to move away.
“I’m truly impressed with your talent. I worry that you could replace me as His Highness’ closest confidante.”
San had seen this meeting. It’s likely that DR knew San would be walking about there at that time, and deliberately pulled DI close to him, to look like they were intimate. This was another of his tests for both DI and San.
Before this, while shooting arrows, San and DR had already spoken of the Queen being the one who got him out of confinement. So his pretending to tell DI some news was to test her and to put on a show for San. He already knew that San liked DI above all the Court Ladies, and was starting to manipulate him.
San had said to DR : “So it was the Queen who persuaded the King to lift the confinement order.”
DR : “Yes.”
San : “She’s not one to help without a reason.”
DR : “Someone must have moved her to act.”โฆ “I hear that Court Lady Sung is serving at the Q’s Palace. She could be the reason for the Q’s kindness.”
San : “Why do you hold a mere court lady in such high esteem? I trust her, but I do not think highly of her talent.” (Sam is actually speaking truthfully, although he does not disparage her too much to her face and even praised her.)
DR : “Is that so? I myself think highly of her talents, but do not trust her.” (This is played out on the bridge when DR speaks in DI’s ear.)
This gives San pause.
DR : “I think that Court Lady Sung had something to do with it. If we use her, we could find out more information. Shall I meet her alone?” (DR was testing San. He wanted to see if he could get under his skin by saying that he’d meet DI alone.)
San’s arrow hits the board (I thought he’d miss actually! LOL He didn’t let what DR said, get to him.)
DR : “I thought you would miss. You always miss with the final arrow.” (Is this a comment on what DR thinks of San? That he would appear fine, but at the end, he would fail?)
San : “I hit the target thoughtlessly. I should have been more humble. (I’m not sure what San is referring to here.) Forget about Court Lady Sung. There’s no need to meet her alone. I will talk to her myself when she returns to my palace. (From this DR can guess that San will be jealous if DR met with her. Hence, the performance on the bridge to push San’s buttons.)
Phoenix
Yes, @GB, In true Sageuk fashion, royal courts are ride with intrigue, treachery and backstabbing. So you are right, one never knows who is on which side. The outright villains like Princess Hwaran and her son are probably easier to target and counter, than the hidden enemies pretending to be allies.
I think this is also why Yi San treasures Deok Im so much, he knows she is the only person he can truly trust in a world of duplicitous relationships where everyone is out to use the other for their personal gain. I also think that’s why he calls Deok Im as “his person”, the one closest to him. It must be difficult living such a life where one doesn’t know who to trust, and to find the one person to rely on can seem like a sanctuary.
Interesting that Yi San doesn’t fully trust Deok Ro too, because Yi San kept his interactions with Deok Im a secret from him, that he knew she had enlisted help from the queen. When in the bath-house Deok Im informed him of the secretary’s behaviour, he didn’t dispute it saying his secretary could never behave like that. He accepted Deok Im’s eord over his secretary’s. This proves who is truly trusts over every else.
grace
I believe being able to speak with her almost like a equal previously when they first met at the library has helped built their relationship.
It is commendable, what Yi San bore to achieve his aims at being king, not for selfish power but for the good of his own people.
“I hold back to attain my aims”
“With that strength there are so many who I can help.”
I realise that this is a side he doesn’t seem to reveal or make known, and we see the revelation he makes to DeokIm.
I wondered what DeokRo wants. If he is not for the other side, then he is also not for the fall of the Crown Prince then what? as @GB pointed out of the incident at the bridge, it seems that he will be jealous that DeokIm will replace him as the Prince’s confidante.
I was reading parts of this translation which is really quite bad but I can make out some parts and that as the Crown Prince’s right hand man, he seems to want power of influence.
@GB, if the drama follows what is known historically, as King Jeongjo right hand man, Gyeomsaseo was able to make his younger sister (we saw her in episode 6), the concubine of King Jeongjo but she died suddenly within a year (poisoned?). It writes that he is hoping that she would produce an heir but she seemed to not be favoured by Jeongjo’s mother or his official wife. He was eventually exiled by the king and died young for some other issue. https://m.blog.naver.com/duqhdigmlwns/222113352032?s=09
So it seems that DeokIm is and will be YiSan’s confidante, unwavering support and soul mate. He is able to open up honestly to her and I believe because they share similar values and admired each other, it is inevitable love will blossom.
GrowingBeautifully (GB)
@Grace, thanks for more background to what happened in history. Knowing that, we hope we can look forward to a nice love story amidst all the intrigue.
@Phoenix, true that San has kept his dealings with DI from DR. I hope he remains cautious.
The weak link might by his forgetful bodyguard who unguardedly tells all to DR.
Phoenix
@Grace, thanks for that background. Maybe that’s what his plans for his sister are. He does seem power hungry, maybe because of his poor upbringing.
@GB I agree, the secretary is an unknown equation. I’m happy Yi San and Deok Im do get together at the end, though for dynastic sake, it is understandable that he will need to take a chief wife from a noble family. I think that’s also what he meant when he was telling his mother this – he doesn’t mean to shirk hos duty because he knows a royal marriage and heir is expected of him, but he doesn’t mean to toy with Deok Im and abandon her either. She will always be in nearest one at heart, even though because of the mores of the time, he can’t make het chief royal consort.
GrowingBeautifully (GB)
The DI and YS Conversations (Broken into 4 parts)
Before San was confined, DI had been transcribing in the library and listening to San speaking from the next pavilion : “The fate of the kingdom can be determined by my actions. I can never let myself go. Nothing of mine is private.”
DI said to herself or to the cat on the wall hanging : “Doesn’t your hand just extend out to someone like that? All for the good of his future subjects. Even though the Crown Prince won’t need as much as a whimper from a mere Court Lady.”
Conversation 1
However she became the Court Lady who did more than whimper in order to help him. She attended the Dongdeok Order meeting and conveyed San’s instructions.
‘Keep an eye on Lord Jung, Princess Hwawan’s adopted son. He is a master of intrigue and deception. He must not be taken lightly.’ (Seo Kyung Joong in the Dongdeok Order said he’d do this).
‘I need someone’s help to lift this confinement order. Tell them to find someone who can speak candidly to His Majesty.’ (No one could be found to do this.)
DI wondered why no one thought of the queen as a possible person, and ended up taking on this task herself as goaded by DR.
Deok Ro had spoken to DI. He noted that the most unanticipated thing was that a woman would enter the Dongdeok Order, “a lowly 9th ranked court lady, no less, but a very bold court lady. We men would never have thought of approaching her (the queen). Such a thought is a blasphemy. We wouldn’t be able to persuade her in secret. By my lady (Deok Im) is different from us. Isn’t that right?” He bent over at her patronisingly to look her in the eye.
DI reports to San that his instructions were delivered and that she may have found a way.
DI : “Send me, my lord. I shall approach the Queen, and ask for goodwill towards my lord. This is something only a woman can do.” (We learn later that it went a roundabout wayโฆ Princess Hyebin had been asked to send DI to the Queen. That way, DI could get a private audience with the Queen.)
GrowingBeautifully (GB)
Conversation 2
After her talk with the Queen, DI reports to San, mentioning the riddles.
San : “So, you got them all wrong?”
DI : “The Q didn’t tell me the answers, so I asked Lady Seo and she said none of my answers were right.”
San : “Were the Q’s riddles so difficult?”
‘What’s the world’s deepest recess?’ – The human heart.
‘Which of the world’s summits is the hardest to scale?’ – The Boritgogae Summit (literally ‘barley hill’, used to denote a time of famine.)
‘What is the world’s most precious flower.’ – The Cotton flower.
DI : “I’m ashamed, my lord.”
San : “Don’t fret. It’s alright.” “Why didn’t you give her a riddle yourself? A hard one.”
DI : “I did and the Q wasn’t able to solve it.”
San : “Really?”
DI : “Name the king who had three different kinds of bells.”
San : “King Sejong?”
DI : “Yes!”
He hits the door between them : “You call that a riddle! It’s not that the Q couldn’t solve it, she didn’t/wouldn’t.”
DI : “Your Highness, the last question the Q posed was a grave one.”
Cut to the Queen : “One final question, how does the Crown Prince view me?”
Back to San : “The Q is formidable. She seats a naรฏve maid in front of her, disarms her with games of riddles to pry out the information she is looking for.
San calls her familarly by her name : “Deon Im-ah.”
DI is pleased : “This may be the first time my lord has called me by my name.”
San : “You did well. I need the Q’s help. The throne will be out of reach for me without her support. Knowing that to be true, I wasn’t able to find a way. Thank you for helping me.”
DI : “I never thought that I would see the day. You praised me for my actions.”
San : “Credit must be given when it is due, because you are my person.”
Hearing San say that gets DI flustered but she comports herself : “It’s my honour, my lord.” She leaves and San laughs, remembering her childish riddle.
In actual fact, I found her answers to the Queen’s riddles pretty good. Those riddle questions seem to admit of more than 1 answer.
DI’s answers to the riddles : “I believe the world’s deepest recess is the universe that houses all creation, while the hardest summit to scale is the summit of fate. Heaven decides man’s fate, and man cannot change his fate without heaven. The world’s most precious flower is whichever one is most precious to a person. Panicles would be most precious to the hungry, while the flower of the licorice is to the herbalist, and the cotton flower would be for the one in need of clothing.
The Q looks at her with interest and checks her name again.
Q asks the formidable question : “How does the Crown Prince regard me?”
DI : “As a mirror. A mirror always emulates what it sees. As vital as my Q considers the Crown Prince, so too does the Crown P view the Q. As much as the motherly love the Q has shown the Crown P, as the Q’s son, the CP too will assume his dutiful role.
When she was alone the Queen said to herself : “A mirror always emulates what it sees. Will the sun rise as usual from the East?” (Or will there be a great upset in the order of things.)
GrowingBeautifully (GB)
Conversation 3
Afrer successfully getting San released, DI ends up for a while at the Q’s palace.
San to DI : “You can’t return to my palace for a while?”
DI : “The Queen has commanded that I stay with her a few more days.”
San :”Why?”
DI : “I don’t know. My apologies, Your Highness, but I must go run the Queen’s errand.”
San : “So, you’re going to leave?”
DI : “Unfortunately, the Queen is of higher rank than you.” (LOL and she goes off happily.)
San to himself : “I hope the Queen doesn’t keep her permanently.”
Conversation 4
No one wants to serve the grumpy, fault- finding San. DI is the sacrificial lamb, pushed into the Prince’s bathroom to serve him.
San is surprised to find that it’s DI who’s with him and gets a bit more dressed so that she can turn towards him and he can see her face.
San to DI : “I thought you were at the Queen’s Palace. When did you get here?”
DI : “I came here on a quick errand.”
San while giving her a long look : “Really?” DI gets self-conscious. She pours in the herbs and mixes it in the water.
San practically snorts : “You were alone with the gyeomsaseo last night, weren’t you?”
DI: “Pardon?”
San : “The gyeomsaseo and you. You were so intimate with him! What if someone saw the two of you like that?”
DI : “Did you see us?”
San : “Yes, I did!”
DI : “Then you should have scolded him for harassing this court lady! Why did you just watch?”
San looks puzzled.
DI : “Weren’t you aware that the gyeomsaseo constantly harasses the court ladies? That he makes them tell him secrets that they see in the palace?”
San just looks at her like he wants to protest.
DI : “You never scolded the gyeomsaseo, your right-hand man, but chose to lash out at this powerless court lady instead.”
San : “I don’t care about the other court ladies. The only one I care about โฆ” (His finger is already pointed at DI.) is โฆ my person.”
DI : “Were you worried about me?”
San : “Yes.”
DI : “I apologise for causing you concern.”
San : “That’s fine.”
DI : “Let me pour the water.”
San gets up to help her with the water, but of course she gets distracted by his bare chest and falls into the water in his arms. (I agree, it was a clumsy looking fall.)
Her hand was not at first on his shoulder, but in the last edit suddenly it’s on his shoulderโฆ LOL.
Unfortunately the preview only has her scrambling out of the bath so we do not know if any beyond long looks took place LOL.
Good Twin
@GB these are great notes. The mirror answer was quite clever. She revealed nothing. The Queen could project what she wanted into that mirror.
Phoenix
@GB Thank you for the couple interaction recaps. They helped me relive this nice episode๐
I do think Yi San underestimates Deok Im’s intelligence, unlike Deok Ro who sees her as a worthy threat for Yi San’s attention (hence that conversation between YS and DR during archery practice). It’s almost like YS wants DI to grow more intellectually, which is why he explains things to her (remember he also gave her his favorite books and asked her to make notes). Because he is interested in her as a person, he wants to mentor her into an intelligent partner. I’ve noticed Yi San doesn’t usually lie, he may lie by omission but not directly. So if he told DI she is naive, he does believe she is naive. I truly like how considerate he is about her – even though she is a servant and he is the master, he tries to help her carry the heavy pail of water, which should have been unthinkable for a crown prince.
birdie007
A few notes:
1. I feel like DR has plans for his sister to marry the crown prince
2. Iโm surprised DR is showing his antipathy towards DI so blatantly. If DI ever asks San why he trusts DR and he replies with the time he saved his life by tearing the pages, she can easily nullify that claimโshe even kept the torn pages as proof. I realize he doesnโt know sheโs the one who was behind the curtain/wall but it just seems like a loose string that could easily be pulled to unravel his false loyalty.
3. The actress playing DI had finally started to not bother meโฆ and then the whole bath scene ๐๐๐ I mean, I donโt blame her one bit for jumping in, but I probably wouldโve take off my hanbok?/robes before leaping. Can she really not make a tumble look more convincing? Physical comedy and facial expressions are definitely her weakness. Maybe sheโd be more suitable in a Japanese manga?
birdie007
Also
@GB thank you! ๐ช๐ช I so enjoy reading their interactions especially the riddle question/answers.
@Grace thanks for doing the history lesson footwork.
And on shooting the arrow in the bullseye:
the scene played like a rollercoaster on my emotions.
First I was nervous for him being goaded while shootingโthat he would miss and show his unease. I felt relieved that he hit the bullseye despite the goading and THEN it was disappointment because he actually DID show his hand by hitting the bullseyeโApparently he usually misses in order to seem more humble.
GrowingBeautifully (GB)
@birdie007 You’re welcome and thanks for correctly interpreting what San said about hitting the last bullseye. I was puzzled.
Yes, it’s strange that DR does not hide his dislike. He began before by trying to charm her, as he does all the other court ladies, but he seems to have stopped the moment she stumbled upon the Dongdeok Order. He’s openly stating that he sees her as a rival for the Crown Prince’s regard.
LOL the falling into the water scene. I’m thinking the director is also at fault. Instead of getting her to fall from a sitting position, they wanted her to fall from a standing position, so that she’d end up more in the middle and in San’s arms. It was awkwardly done and edited, however, but we know we’ll end up waiting for 2 weeks and probably will only get a scene of embarrassment and awareness of each other at the most, as the end to this bathroom outing. ๐
Welmaris
I think the only loyalty to which Deok Ro holds fast is to himself, and possibly to his family. He stays close to the Crown Prince because it serves his purposes. Being from a poor family, and from a clan that is known to oppose the king, hanging onto San’s coattails is the most expedient way he can climb the social ladder and ingratiate himself within the court. From what DR said to his sister, I suspect he will try to get her into training as a court lady. That will eventually get him a trustworthy channel to insider information. There may be a limit to how much useful information he can tease out of enraptured girls daily serving him water at the well. And from what DI tells San in the bath, DR regularly pressures court ladies into giving him information. I suspect San didn’t doubt that, because he’s been the recipient of that information from DR’s reports.
Being a female servant in a patriarchal society must be close to being invisible. They come and go as ordered, not expected to have their own thoughts, personality, personhood. They’re flesh-and-blood robots, overlooked as long as they’re functioning as expected. When they do get noticed, it is as sexual objects with no option for consent.
Young women from noble families are only valued as a means of forging alliances and expanding power, traded like prize cattle for childbearing.
It was natural that DI thought San was entering a courtesan house in order to have a liaison with a gisaeng. As she says to San, most men of their culture have extra-marital affairs, not adhering to the same standards of chastity and virtue as women. San is unusual in his refusal to entertain physical lust in any way that appears shameful; however, he was blind to the impression he would generate by repeatedly entering a courtesan house under cover of darkness. He may have thought he was fine as long as he didn’t have contact with any women within the house, but didn’t realize that rumor can be as damaging as fact. He was naรฏve.
At the second Dongdeok Order meeting DI attended, after she delivered the Crown Prince’s message and tried to present her idea on how to end his confinement, she was interrupted and ignored by the men in the room. Her existence didn’t register in their worldview. She had no value, in their thinking. And that’s what will make her valuable: her invisibility to others will allow her to observe, gather, and pass information without generating suspicion, because she’s not expected to have or use a brain.
It is interesting that San, who cherishes DI, says he trusts her but doesn’t think much of her abilities. He was raised with prejudices against women, against servants, against people of low social status, so he underestimates her despite having experienced her intelligence during their chats when he was incognito. On the other hand, DR acknowledges DI’s abilities, but distrusts her. He may recognize that her intelligence will make her difficult to manipulate. She’s made it clear to DR that she is suspicious of him: to her, he’s a scary person.
Welmaris
Show gives us some dialogue explaining why the father of Crown Prince Yi San, Crown Prince Sado, was punished by his father: he cut off a eunuch’s head and carried it on display around the palace; he beat and sexually abused court ladies, causing some to die of their injuries and some to commit suicide from the trauma. His horrific behavior was attributed to insanity. That his behavior toward those who served in the palace is considered appalling, in a culture where servants were considered lowly, speaks to how far Sado crossed the line. Crown Prince Yi San is steadfast in his fidelity to his father. In history, King Jeongjo tried hard to clear his father’s name and reputation. Did he believe his father was framed?
Reading the Wikipedia article on Crown Prince Sado (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Prince_Sado), some of the information based on the book written by his surviving widow Lady Hyegyeong, I suspect the real Crown Prince Sado was a violent, brutal man who not only took out his anger on underlings, but subjected his wife, concubines, and children to physical abuse. He also threatened violence against other court members. Lady Hyegyeong and Sado’s mother witnessed Sado threaten to kill his sister Princess Hwawan. This alone may have soured Princess Hwawan on Sado and his line, but there was more bad blood between them:
“Late in 1757, Sado took another secondary consort, Pingae (Royal Noble Consort Gyeong), who had been a lady-in-waiting to his grandmother, so his relations with her were considered to breach the incest taboo…When Yeongjo found out, he berated his son and Sado eventually jumped down a well, but a guard pulled him out. Lady Hyegyeong had, by this point, managed to have Pingae hidden in the home of Sado’s sister, Princess Hwawan.”
“In 1761, Sado beat Pingae in a fit of rage. He left her on the floor, where she died. Lady Hyegyeong prepared her body for the funeral rites, but, on his return, Sado reportedly said nothing about Pingae’s death.”
These deaths, injuries, and threats are not what resulted in Sado’s execution: it was rumors he attempted to enter the upper palace to kill King Yeongjo.
“Fearing for the safety of her grandchildren, Royal Consort Yeong begged Yeongjo to deal with Sado…By court rules, the body of a royal could not be defiled and, under the then-common practice of communal punishment, Sado’s wife and son (the family’s only direct male heir) could also face death or banishment if he were executed as a criminal…As a solution, Yeongjo ordered Sado to climb into a wooden rice chest (roughly 1.3m square / 4 feet square) on a hot July day in 1762…According to Lady Hyegyeong’s memoirs, Sado begged for his life before getting into the chest, though he attempted to get out again…
Along with her children, Lady Hyegyeong was taken back to her father’s house on the same day. After two days, King Yeongjo had the chest containing Sado tied with rope, covered with grass, and moved to the upper palace…Sado responded from inside the chest until the night of the seventh day; the chest was opened and he was pronounced dead on the eighth day…Yeongjo then restored him to the position of crown prince…
Although the Wikipedia article attributes Sado’s death to starvation, I suspect he died of thirst. An otherwise healthy person might survive 8-21 days without food and water, and up to two months with adequate water intake. Sado climbed into the rice chest on a hot July day, so I imagine he died of dehydration.
Because King Yeongjo wished to protect his direct male line, he never declared Sado to be a criminal. In 1764, to further protect the legitimacy of his grandson, Crown Prince Yi San, as heir to the throne, King Yeongjo ordered Yi San’s posthumous adoption by the deceased Crown Prince Hyojang (King Yeongjo’s first and illegitimate son, who’d died 34 years prior at the age of nine, seven years before his half-brother Sado was born) and the deceased crown princess Hyosun (who’d married at age nine, was widowed one year later, and died in 1751, thirteen years before she was declared Yi San’s adoptive mom).
Being that Yi San never met either of his adoptive parents, both dead by the time he was born, it doesn’t surprise me that on assuming the throne, he publicly declared, “I am the son of the late Crown Prince Sado.”
Welmaris
SPOILERS FROM HISTORY
One thing Show hasn’t mentioned yet, is that Crown Prince Yi San is already a married man, having been wed to Lady Kim in 1762 when he was age ten and she age nine. When Yi San ascended the throne as King Jeongjo, she became Queen Hyoui. They did not have any children together, but Queen Hyoui adopted the sons of Royal Noble Consort Ui (whom we know as Deok Im) and Royal Noble Consort Su.
We hope this show gives us a happy ending, with Deok Im becoming San’s most beloved consort. In real life, things did not go well for them. Yi San became King Jeongjo on 27 April 1776. Deok Im became a Royal Consort on September 7, 1782, and the next month (13 October 1782) gave birth to a son, Yi Sun, who was given the title Prince Successor in November 1782. Her next child, a daughter, died shortly after birth in 1784. Prince Successor Yi Sun died at age four, on 11 May 1786. Four months later, on 04 November 1786, Royal Noble Consort Ui died of liver cancer during her third pregnancy, the full-term but unborn child dying with her.
King Jeongjo suddenly died under suspicious circumstances on 18 August 1800, at age 47. He was succeeded by his only living son, Yi Gong, by Royal Noble Consort Su of the Bannam Park clan, who became King Sunjo of Joseon. (When King Sunjo died on 13 December 1834 at age 44, he left no heir to the throne despite having fathered two sons; his eldest son Crown Prince Hyomyeong, preceded him in death by four years, and his second son died as a baby.) King Jeongjo’s only other surviving child, Princess Sukseon, also by Royal Noble Consort Su, lived until 1836. She was married in 1804 at age 12 and had one son in 1813 with her husband, Hong Hyeon Ju.
GrowingBeautifully (GB)
@Welmaris Thanks for the great summary history of King Yeongjo, CP Sado and CP Yi San (King Jeongjo). It makes more understandable the sentiment of various members of the court. It becomes clear that Head Court Lady is so against Yi San’s enthronement, (and why the grandad King is so afraid of any signs of San’s disobedience) because it is believed that the apple won’t fall far from the tree. She fears he might start abusing the Court Ladies like his father did.
I presume the rest of the plotting of the court is to do with swaying power the way they want, so as to be in position to successfully, politically manipulate.
At the moment Head Court Lady has aligned herself (or vice versa) with Second State Councilor Hong. If they make a further alliance with Princess Hwawan, they will be quite a formidable force of enemies for Yi San to reckon with.
Welmaris
Hah! After poking through some information on Korean royal lineage, I’ve learned that Park Bo Bum (who played Crown Prince Hyomyeong in the 2016 Kdrama Love in the Moonlight) and Kim Min Jae (who appeared in a cameo in the 2018 film Feng Shui as Crown Prince Hyomyeong) are thus both the “grandson” of Lee Jun Ho, who plays Crown Prince Yi San.
grace
@GB I enjoyed reading your comments and quotes of the scenes โคโค
@Welmaris, thanks for the detailed back story! And the connection to the other dramas. I am getting to know Korean history a bit better ๐ ๐
A TMI, infertility and infant deaths is common in the 1700s.
DeokIm who managed to get pregnant 3 times was quite revered because a queen or concubines value is based on their ability to give birth to a future heir. Actually she had 2 miscarriages before delivering the first crown prince.
Also as a sign of how much King Jeongho valued and loved DeokIm, when married, her residence was close to his office. He tried and found ways to raise her status by creating a surname for her legitimately.
Kuroshio
@Welmaris @GB @Grace @Cel WOW! I have learned a lot today. Thank you for all your interpretations, recapping, historical background. I have a good time.
About the riddle that DI gave: Name the King who had 3 different kinds of bells?
The answer is King Sejong.
It was a pun. Se-is 3 and Jong is Bell.
Yes, It was quite childish.
GrowingBeautifully (GB)
@Grace and @Kuroshio (and again @Phoenix, @Good Twin, @birdie007) you’re most welcome and your appreciation is much appreciated LOL. Only some shows inspire and get me going, and to have events/conversations clear my mind, I transcribe them. In the process patterns may pop up or something I forgot comes back to inform a future scene.
I love it where anything is written with care and layers to enrich future parts of the plot, ie the writer allows us to catch clues earlier, and to play along to figure out the end, if we can pay attention and remember those clues!! Putting things into writing helps.
Your appreciation also inspires me. I’m happy to share my notes and hope they’ll be useful to add joy to our drama watching.
Cleopatra
Kalimera Ladies!
Thank you to everyone @GB Unnie, @Grace, @Phoenix, @GoodTwin, @Birdie and @Welmaris who posted about the poem and its meaning, the scenes trascription and historical events. It was amazing to read!
I want to differentiate myself from what you have written so far about how Yi San thinks about Deok Im.
From their first encounter, Yi San is captivated by Deok Im by her character. Then by her brain. She is his favorite and we know it and his Gyeomsaseo figured it out. The fact that Hong Deok-Ro wanted to kill her without Yi San’s order means a lot for me.
I am pretty sure that Yi San knows pretty well how cold Gyeomsaseo is. I also believe that Yi San may have know that he learns intel from the Court Ladies, but at the same time, he didn’t know in what extent he is doing so.
So, when the curfew is lifted we get to see that scene where Yi San is shooting arrows and Gyeomsaseo is talking to him. When I watched the scene, I realized that Yi San doesn’t want Gyeomsaseo to be near Deok Im at all. That’s why he dismissed her in front of him, about what she did with the Queen.
I don’t take for granted what he said below, TY @GB Unnie!
San : Why do you hold a mere court lady in such high esteem? I trust her, but I do not think highly of her talent.
While at the same time, Yi San got information from Gyeomsaseo what he thinks about Deok Im.
DR : Is that so? I myself think highly of her talents, but do not trust her..
As I have said on Saturday, the fact that Gyeomsaseo asked Deok Im to tell him what is in the Crown Prince’s heart was not insignificant and should be noted. Since we now know that he wants his sister to become the Prince’s Consort that shows how he will treat Deok Im from now on. Deok Im is his enemy.
As for why Yi San told her “naive” after her encounter with the Queen.
My interpretation is that Yi San called Deok Im “naive” because she doesn’t know how the Palace Politics work. For a novice herself, she did an excellent job not only with her answers pleasing the Queen, I agree over here with @GB Unnie, but also with finding the most profound reason where the Queen could punish Princess Hwawan in front of everyone and could get away with it.
We all know that Yi San is attracted to Deok Im. He confessed himself in the beginning of the episode and he is wondering about her feelings.
At the same time, Deok Im earned Yi San’s trust because she has proved herself many times now. Hence she is also his confidante. That’s why he has called her twice Deok Im-Ah and that she is his person.
He is worried about her, because he knows that his right hand man the Gyeomsaseo Hong Deok-Ro is envious of her. While at the same time, she is also a target for Princess Hwawan.
I believe since we don’t have subs for the preview of the next episode, that he will ask his Grandfather permission for Deok Im to become his Concubine.
Firstly, because he loves her and as it seems Deok Im told her friends that she likes Yi San and then to protect her from all that danger.
Lastly, the actor Kang Hoon who plays Gyeomsaseo Hong Deok-Ro is the one who played Kang Tae-Jeong in “You are my Spring”. He was the brother of Kang Da-Jeong.
GrowingBeautifully (GB)
Hi Doensaeng @Cleo! That’s interesting. I didn’t even notice that Kang Hoon acted the part of the brother of Da Jeong! I just find him two-faced, hence sinister, in this show, and didn’t really think if he looked familiar.
Did San call her her Deok Im-Ah twice? I know he called her his person twice.
Thanks for giving us your thoughts. Your words brings to the fore again, how dangerous a place the palace is. One just has to be favoured by somebody, to suddenly have several enemies. At the moment DI may not be aware of all of them, just of the obvious ones.
Is your elbow better yet? Read ya again!
Cleopatra
@GB Unnie,
I thought he was familiar, but in this one, he is transformed to a sinister character from 0 to 1! I agree with you!
As for Yi San: I remember that he called her Deok Im-Ah twice!
The first one was when DI was giving him information about the Queen’s riddles. The scene where he called her naive.
I thought that the second one was in the Royal Bath, but I have to check. I agree with you that he called her twice “his person”.
When I started watching sageuks (with Faith: The Great Doctor being my first one) I realized that the palace politics are so very dangerous. In “The Red Sleeve Cuff” is so obvious from the very beginning.
Yes it is better, but because it is humid, I am being conscious about it!
See you in another thread! :*
Welmaris
How interesting that an actor can do a fine job with a character in a good drama and still be forgettable, then inhabit a different character in a different drama and make a huge impression. I suspect playing Gyeomsaseo Hong Deok Ro will be a turning point in Kang Hoon’s career. Good for him!
About the Queen publicly reprimanding Princess Hwawan: DI gave her a reason–wearing Chinese silk at an event meant to promote the Korean silk industry–but Yi San’s response to the Queen’s question about his opinion of her, which DI passed along word for word, provided the Queen with the explanation she used before the King to explain why she took such action. She couldn’t look petty and vindictive, or she’d lose the King’s favor. Without explicitly using Yi San’s mirror analogy, she impressed on the King her desire to lead by example for the benefit of Joseon and her children by marriage. Deok Im, Yi San, and the Queen all worked as a team to take down Princess Hwawan a few pegs.
Phoenix
@Welmaris and @Grace: Thank you for the actual history surrounding our characters. It will be interesting to see how closely our drama adheres to the historical events. Not sure if there are any Korean native speakers here who have read The Red Sleeve Cuff novel from which this was adapted.
BethB
I have been surprisingly charmed by this show. It is my favorite historical drama this year. It’s a simpler story than either LOTRS or King’s Affection (i.e., there is less peril/consequence around every corner in the plot), but I think it is better written than either of them. There seem no empty moments where past scenes are endless repeated or the almost-lovers make long moony eyes at one another. I have found myself eagerly rewatching scenes just to trace certain story arcs–not because I am confused but because it seems to increase my viewing pleasure. (So far I rewatched all the scenes in the library, to see their earlier interactions and to see how the misunderstanding of his identity began).
I’m so glad to have this blog where you all have done all the historical research for me, especially the text to the odes that Deok Im read to the prince. As to what happened historically, as it says at the beginning of each show, it’s based on history but the characters are fictional. So I can imagine a long and happy life for them…
Cleopatra
Kalispera!
I have been looking english subs for the next episode and I found them on You Tube.
Please check in the comments section the User: Orange Is .
He / She posted historical information regarding the historical even @grace posted. Yi San asked three times Deok Im to become his Royal Concumbine. He / She explains it pretty well. I thought you would love to read it.
Welmaris
Here’s another Kdrama tie-in to this show: Sungkyunkwan Scandal (sorry, @Packmule3, I know you wouldn’t recommend this show because its male lead, Park Yoo Chun, has since gotten in trouble with sexual assault accusations and drug use.) Actor Jo Sung Ha, age 44 when SS aired, plays King Jeongjo in the later years of his reign. King Jeongjo was age 47 when he died.
grace
Just a bit more TMI…which will not be quite related to this show but was really interesting for me.
King Yeongjo’s first son died possibly of measles, not chicken pox as said by commenter Orange Is in the YT video. There was an epidemic during that time and King Yeongjo did a lot to create reforms to manage epidemic and help the poor who do have access to medicine or medical care. Also, from some records, it is said that his son recovered from it but still died. In the same year, DeokIm passed away, while it is written that it was due to cancer, it was also written that she was so sad from the death of her son that it was also hard for her to recover from her grief.
GrowingBeautifully (GB)
Ad Hoc Notes on our OTP
– First meeting as children, they bicker but help each other. DI hears his name but he does not know hers.
– Second meeting (meet-cute), she not only falls on him, pushing him into the pond but is totally the opposite of being helpful in getting him out when he was standing up in the water just fine, but she drags him back into the water again and again, in the name of saving him. I watched this at least 3 times and still couldn’t help laughing. No wonder he made her write the apology letter 5 times. They don’t even see each other’s faces.
– Third and subsequent meetings in the library, they rub each other up the wrong way and she’s totally rude towards him, until she hopes to get his help in her letter writing. It was fortunate that he never put on his Crown Prince hat in those situations, or it would have been ‘off with her head.’ DI is misled as to his identity and he discovers that the librarian maid is the same girl who pushed him into the water.
– After the tiger hunt, DI is finally undeceived as to San’s identity, and they move from bickering strangers to master and servant, and to trusted confidants.
By the time we get to the meeting in San’s bathroom, we’re all set to bookend their 2nd meet cute as DI once again falls upon San, near water, and they get embarrassingly wet together. This time they look at each other’s face. A new baptism that heralds a new turn in their relationship? ๏ No apology letter required this time!
GrowingBeautifully (GB)
About Yi San
In Episode 1/2, it seems boy San had asked his mother to find the young court lady who’d helped him.
San : “Did you find that girl?”
Princess Hyebin lies : “That girl you’re looking for already left the Palace.” (Actually Hyebin must have found out that the girl was DI whom she’d helped to keep alive by having her trained as a court lady.)
San : “What do you mean she left? How? She said she was a young court lady. How could she have left when I’m still alive?” (Although so young, he was already well versed in what was due to him as Crown Prince and King. All retainers were practically slaves of the royal household until death of royalty or death of retainer.)
Princess Hyebin looked away : “Let’s just think that she left. It’s better than being dead.” (There’s a warning in her words, that Deok Im might have ended up dead if it was discovered she had helped to hide the Crown Prince.)
Princess Hyebin continues : “What if the King finds out you went to see your Grandmother? You would both get into trouble.”
San becomes aware of the gravity of the situation and is solemn.
Princess Hyebin : “Don’t look so sad. You’ll soon forget about your Grandmother. I’ll look for that girl then.”
San : “It’s okay. You don’t need to. You’re right. What’s the point of me seeing her? I’m the Crown Prince. She’s just a lowly court lady. 1)We can’t even be friends. 2)We can’t even sit in front of each other. Since you say she left the Palace, 3)I’ll believe you. 4)I won’t ever look for her.”
San actually has to eat all his words because:
1) he did become friends with DI
2) they did sit opposite to each other (later in the library)
3) he did not believe his mother because
4) the second he thought he saw DI, he ran through the rows of young court ladies to look for her
San was disappointed that he didn’t find her, but at the same time acknowledges to himself : “But it’s better for you if you are away.” He says aloud : “When somebody is with me it can get dangerous for them.”
Poor lonely San. This was something he knew and accepted when he was a mere child. He did not want to endanger others, and hence held them at arm’s length for their protection. This was maybe why he was such a curmudgeon and difficult to serve. However DI got underneath all the protective layers to inadvertently become his friend.
Unlike with anyone else, San was able to see DI’s true attitude towards him, because he’d known her while she wasn’t aware of his identity. He was later able to see that despite knowing who he was, she did not change. She still spoke her mind, daring to argue with him. She remained sincere. It is understandable that he would ultimately want to keep her with him always.
GrowingBeautifully (GB)
DI and San’s Interactions
It’s laughable that what DI accidentally did to San (when they first fell into the pond) would have landed her in prison for attempted murder, but that subsequent times when she deliberately pushes, or sweeps San out of the library, not to mention when she threw salt and the map into his face, San was impotent to take action, because he lied about his identity.
LIBRARY INTERACTION 1
San had just received an anonymous letter that rejected him as the future king. He was out looking for spies when he came across DI in the Library. He makes the mistake of looking down on her and offering her a pittance for information.
DI looks at the coins San dropped into her hand with a sneer.
San arrogantly : “So you’re finally inclined to answer my questions.”
She gives him a look of disdain : “This is not even enough to bribe a court lady.”
San is miffed : “Five nyang is not enough?”
DI : “Of course. I’m worth more than this.”
She throws the money at him, hitting his body LOL.
DI : “This is the East Palace library. It may be too old for His Highness to frequent, but it does belong to the royal Crown Prince. That applies to me too. I may be a young court lady but I belong to the East Palace. How dare you try to bribe the Crown Prince’s person?”
San has been speechless for a while.
San : “Hah, you are the Crown Prince’s person?” (Once again words he’ll have to eat, since it will be he, himself, who’ll call her his person.)
DI : “I said I belong to the East Palace.”
San : “What loyalty could a court lady have?”
DI gets upset at this : “Get out immediately.” (She usually gets upset when looked down upon.)
She literally pushes against his chest to get him going, but falls backwards herself. (Ooh lalaโฆ so much physical interaction in that day and age?)
San ignominiously gets literally swept out of the library with a dusty broom.
DI to herself : “He is so weird for someone looking handsome.” (She acknowledges that he’s handsome here, but later we find that she does not consider him as handsome as the lecturer is rumoured to be.)
LIBRARY INTERACTION 2
San is back in the library, still looking for the sply. He focuses on DI’s having an ornament, as if she’d been bribed.
He grabs her wrist : “This? After acting all high and refusing to take money from me?” She tries to get her wrist free but he won’t let go.
San : “It was foolish of me. The spy was right nearby, but I was totally off guard.”
DI : “What are you talking about?”
He grabs her right shoulder with his free hand : “How dare you call yourself the Crown Prince’s court lady?” (He’s strangely physical with DI.)
DI : “Let go of me. Who are you? Tell me your name first.”
San : “Why must I let a mere young maid know of my name?”
DI : “Don’t look down on me for who I am. In the future, I could be a senior fifth-rank consort.”
San : “Really?” (San suddenly remembers that the little girl court lady who had helped him, had said the same thing.) He says to himself : “She was a court lady too.”
Seeing him distracted, DI frees herself from his grasp. They proceed to sit opposite each other while DI shows him her handwriting.
San continues to look down on DI although she proves that she’s able to transcribe the “Extended Meaning of Greater Learning.”
San is amazed : “No way. How could a young maid โฆ”
DI : “You keep thinking lowly of a young maid. Who do you think you are? Is being an official that great?”
San : “An official?”
DI : “No wonder your voice sounded familiar. You are one of the lecturers that assist the Crown prince, are you not?”
San sighs. He decides to lie and let her continue in that belief : “Yes, I’m a lecturer.”
DI : “What is your name?”
San lies : “My name is Hong Dong Ro. I’m the Crown Prince’s teacher.”
DI : “The Crown Prince’s teacher.? You’re lying.”
San : “Why?” (He’s surprised that she should penetrate his lies.) “Why? I am his teacher.”
DI : “I heard the Crown Prince’s teacher is very good-looking.”
San is stunned : “What?” (LOLOL. Sucked the wind from his sails there.)
DI : “I heard he is the most good-looking man in Hanseong, that so many women admire him.”
San is practically stuttering : “Are you disappointed to see me?”
DI dismisses his chagrin : “That is how rumours start.” (I loved this!)
This encounter ends up with DI being so incensed with San that she throws salt at his back and shuts him out of the library. When he insists she opens the door, she does so and throws more salt at him, but this time at his ‘handsome’ face LOL. San can only sputter impotently.
Seeing Deok Ro immediately after this, San notes cynically : ” Oh, the most good-looking man in Hanseong.”
GrowingBeautifully (GB)
DI and San’s Interactions continued
LIBRARY INTERACTION 5
San has just frustrated DI’s 5 attempt at the letter of apology and says to himself with satisfaction : “I said it was going to be tough.”
The 5th time that DI met San in the library, DI complains loudly to him, about himself LOL : “Having my pay cut is much better. I would rather be caned. I’m sick of writing letters of apology.”
San : “What is so bad about it? It gives you a chance to realise your wrongdoing.”
DI : “A chance or whatever. Even a worm will turn. When I think about the Crown Prince, I wake up from my sleep. Will someone who tortures his subordinates so much become a good king?”
San snaps a book shut and comes up to where DI is.
San : “How dare you speak ill of His Highness?”
She rudely throws a map at San’s face, LOL and it’s the map that helps them locate the tiger.
While she looks for more maps, she loses her balance, but San is there in time to stop her fall by pushing her face into the bookshelf LOL. Now that’s poetic justice!
LIBRARY INTERACTION 6 – The beginning of a change in attitude
DI has to write a different letter of apology for being insincere in her other letter, LOL and totally loses it in the library much to San’s amusement.
Later, she gives him water to drink again, not because she wants anything from him but because he was taking it upon himself to catch the tiger.
This time with a different sentiment, DI says : “You are great.” He looks at her in slight surprise. “I mean it. You are great.”
He smiles his crooked smile.
DI : “Why are you smiling?”
San : “Now that I think about it. I have only seen you in the library. What do you usually do?” (San is finally showing an interest in the person of DI.)
DI : “Well it’s nothing special. I transcribe a book or read it to people. I do not sew often because I do not like it.”
San : “Do you still read folktales to people. I told you not to read them.”
DI : “What do you care whether I read a book to people or not?”
San : “It’s my order!”
DI : “Exactly. So why do I have to follow your order? You are not my master.” He is silenced.
When he hears that she’d be reading that night during the festival he gets her grounded in night duty and unable to go for the festival. (It only confirmed to himself that he was indeed her master, but that was really too petty and most unfair!)
At the Court Ladies’ rehearsal for their festival, San had witnessed how DI was able to command the attention of all the court ladies, by offering to read a story. He saw that the girls gathered around in an orderly manner and could be commanded to cooperate.
This inspired him to get DI to save the court ladies from the tiger on the night of the festival.
LIBRARY INTERACTION 7
San enters the library and literally pulls DI outdoors. She shakes her hand free to insist on knowing what was going on.
San : “I know it will be dangerous, but you are all I have. Only you can do it.” (A reference to her being his person?)
DI : “Pardon?”
San : “Read a book. Please. Read a book in front of people.”
This is the first time he’d made a request, instead of issuing an order, and it was a sign of his trust in her courage, good sense and abilities.
Cleopatra
Kalimera @GB Unnie,
Great comments as usual! I enjoyed reading them!
Tomorrow we get to see the new episode! Yeah!
GrowingBeautifully (GB)
Kalimera Dongsaeng @Cleo, thanks. It was fun re-watching those scenes.
I, too, am excited about tomorrow’s episode. The aftermath of the bath LOL It even rhymes!
Cleopatra
Kalimera my agapimeni @GB!
You are right it is fun re-watching those scenes!
The aftermath of the bath! LMAO!
Let us see what will happen…
GrowingBeautifully (GB)
Sorry this is so long.
I looked back at my previous episode comments and realised that what I’d hoped for has come to pass in this Ep 6. I wanted DI to have the opportunity to save San, after he’d saved her twice. And she did.
She saved him from boredom by taking the initiative to read from the Book of Odes. At the same time (as noted above on the significance of the interpretations of the poem) the choice of poem assured him that she was on the same page with him, literally and figuratively.
She saved him from hopelessness by assuring him of her support and protection, and she saved him from wasting too many days in confinement.
In the course of the action, Writer-nim is commenting on the role and rights of court ladies.
Theme of the Status of the Servant (and the Role and Attitude of the Master)
For a change, we get a Show that gives us more of a servant’s perspective of palace life. Show has been harping quite a lot on the status of servants in the palace who are often invisible and looked down upon by their masters. At the same time, those same servants, like the court ladies who get to live in the palace, are revered as fairies by the common folk. It is an irony highlighted by Hd CL Jo.
In Episode 2, DI had noted their lack of freedom. She’d explained to Kyung Hee why she let her friends join in the transcription parties. “We can never leave the palace for the rest of our lives. Whether we gain a profit or have a loss, do you not think it is useless? There is nothing much I can do as myself. I do not mind even if it is minor. I want to make choices. I decided to let Young Hee and Bok Yeon in because it was my choice.” (In a situation where much is rigidly controlled, DI reveled in being able to exercise her own discretion in the simplest things, such as determining who got to work with her.)
DI had had a hard time trying to transcribe the book, “Extended Meaning of the Greater Learning.” But it was from this book that promoted the rights of the common people. San quoted is for his role as future King: “To support people is the highest priority.”โฆ
DI hears the question posed to the Crown Prince : “Have you ever wanted to be a commoner instead of being the Crown Prince?”
San : “Never.”
Question : “Has your Crown Prince title ever felt heavy?”
San : “How could I complain when I was destined? I was born as the Crown Prince and read as many great books as I want. I can also order around many talented people. The fact I can use my talent solely for this country is worth more than anything.” (The problem with San is that he didn’t think of his servants as the ‘talented people’ whom he ordered around. They were merely creatures to do his will, until he befriended DI. Of course the dull bodyguard didn’t improve San’s opinion of minions.)
The Hd CL Jo had mixed feelings over the coming-of-age ceremony, since it marked the young girls as servants for life. They were essentially enslaved, having to forego a personal life like having a family of their own. This gives added poignancy to how the young girls admired the handsome gyeomsaseo, but would never be able to marry him. That was probably the reason also that Deok Ro said that he had to keep a distance from DI, because she was a court lady.
We know that upon coming of age (18+) the girls entered as 9th level officials. DI aspired to rise to at least the 5th level. Hd CL Jo had highlighted the fate of a court lady of the 2nd level. Only a favoured court lady, who was a royal concubine, could die inside the palace. An old and infirm court lady would have to leave the palace (I guess because she might die any time). I’m thinking that this was the reason for the look that Hd CL Jo gave the very old Court Lady Park. We discussed this before. It was a matter of time for poor CL Park to be retired and this was a source of pain for Hd CL Jo. No matter how much authority she may have had before, her end would be ‘shabby’.
Throughout the Show, DI balks at being looked down upon. In Episode 4, upon getting notice that they were to be official court ladies, DI had been depressed, knowing that she’d be assigned to the East Palace.
She thinks about how the Crown Prince had deceived her: “Even if I’m there, I’ll still be a servant. You’ll get a pretty dress, attend the ceremony and become an official. Even so, we’ll still be servants that serve masters. We can’t even object if our masters wrong us. If we make a mistake, we’ll be thrown out of the palace. We’ll always live in fear as servants. You can’t think too much if you’re a servant. But I keep having frivolous thoughts.”
She had called San out on his attitude towards her: “You may think of me as merely a lowly servant. However, I will be serving you as my master all my life. So you mustn’t treat me with such contempt and ridicule.”
DI to San : “So you want me to hold no grudges because I am but a lowly servant. Did you come here to tell me that? All you had to do was offer me a sincere apology. But you don’t know how to apologise.”
San : “So you want me to learn how to apologise to my inferiors?”
DI : “Yes. All the people of this kingdom are your inferiors, but someday they will become your subjects. Therefore, please learn how to apologise to your inferiors and also to your subjects. They say a true monarch must learn to recognise his faults and bow his head in contrition. The fact that you do not understand this has been of great disappointment to me.” (We get to see in recent times, that people in authority bow in public to make an abject apology for their wrong doings. It will be even better if they cried tears in public, as a sign of their sincere contrition.)
However, the lowliness of the status of servants can also be used to their advantage.
In Episode 4, when Princess Hwawan wants to get DI beaten to death, the King orders San to practise giving a fair punishment.
San: “As I see it, were a minister to willfully touch the path, they would certainly be killed. but were a commoner to touch the path, they’d be sent to prison to be set free again after a period of confinement. I do think it is right for me to take the god-given life of a subject. That would be my judgment. However, if a court lady were to touch it, I’d rather not waste my time on something so trivial.
San : “Aunt, if a leaf falls onto the path, palace attendants must schedule a time to remove it. If the path freezes over, they’ll spread hot ash to melt it, before then removing the ash. (In other words, the servants will have to step on the path to keep it clean and safe. So debating the punishment for stepping on the path by a servant like DI was a waste of time.) If it is slippery, if the King were to slip, would that not be terrible? Palace attendants are simply our helpers and debating their punishment is beneath us.”
So DI got away with a lighter punishment, although any punishment at all was unfair. Such was the lot of the palace servants, who would be arbitrarily punished depending on the politics of the court and the mood of the master.
San had been a little goaded by his mother and spoke of having a woman in his life : “You are mistaken, mother. As for me, I have no intention of keeping a woman of humble status beside me. Only a daughter of a dignified family would qualify to be by my side. Only such a woman can produce a rightful heir, and producing such an heir is my only intention. โฆ”
Seeing however that DI had heard and had been offended, San took the trouble to acknowledge that he had ruined her special day for her.
However, in Episode 6, we still hear San speak to Deok Ro of DI: “Why do you hold a mere court lady in such high esteem? I trust her, but I do not think highly of her talent.” He still does not regard her as smart enough to be a cause for worry, but Deok Ro is more perceptive than San. It might be also that San refused to acknowledge his regard for DI to DR, in order to protect her from DR’s scrutiny.
By giving DI a voice and having not only San, but also the King, the Queen and Head Court Lady find favour with her, while DR becomes wary of her, Show has elevated DI.
By San’s coming around to follow DI’s directions regarding advising the King to not eat the rice cakes, and then having San acknowledge that DI had saved him, Show appears to promote servants as smart persons deserving of greater respect and better treatment by their masters.
Welmaris
@GB, it is wonderful when a drama grips you so much you want to study, isn’t it? I count it double pleasure: the enjoyment of watching the show itself, and the engagement of analysis and research. The Red Sleeve has inspired me to take on a project that has kept me busy for many hours over several days. I’m doing it for my own benefit, but am willing to share once it’s done. It may be a few more days before I can unveil it.
GrowingBeautifully (GB)
Hi @Welmaris, LOL yes! If it’s fun and gives the brains a bit of workout, so much the better. I applaud your diligent research. I know you’ll go into great depth and detail and round up your ideas beautifully. I look forward to reading you analyses! ๐
GrowingBeautifully (GB)
Here’s a BTS on the first splash. Lee Junho is interesting. He’s not the light-hearted, playful kind of person in real life (like Lee Jun Ki who keeps playing around between takes) but is rather serious. He sounds like he feels a bit sorry for himself LOL.
Welmaris
While doing other research, I stumbled across this in the Wikipedia entry for Queen Jeongsun, the second queen consort of King Yeongjo:
“After the death of Queen Jeongseong in 1757, King Yeongjo held bridal selections to choose his second queen. His father had banned former concubines from becoming queen, so King Yeongjo could not elevate one of his concubines to queenship, as many former kings had done.”
“On 9 June 1759, Queen Jeongsun was chosen as queen. During the bridal selections, Yeongjo allegedly asked the candidates what the deepest thing in the world was. Some cited the mountains or the sea, but she cited the human heart, capturing his attention. When asked about the most beautiful flower, she answered, ‘The cotton flower is the most beautiful flower, although it does not exude fashion and scent, but it is the most beautiful flower that warms the people by weaving thread’.”
“On 22 June 1759, Queen Jeongsun formally married King Yeongjo at Changgyeong Palace. This marriage was considered the oldest marriage in Joseon Dynasty history as Yeongjo was 66 years old, and the Queen was 15 years old at the time of the marriage. She was also 10 years younger than her husband’s son and heir, Crown Prince Sado, and his daughter-in-law, Lady Hyegyeong.”
How about that! When her husband, King Yeongjo, died, Queen Jeongsun was honored as Queen Dowager Yesun. When Jeongjo died, she was raised to the status of Grand Queen Dowager Yesun and acted as regent for King Sunjo, who was ten years old when he was enthroned.
GrowingBeautifully (GB)
Ah @Welmaris, then at least Show has kept this little bit of the Queen’s age right. She did say that when she came and became queen at age 15, she was 7 years younger than Princess Hwawan, hence did not have the confidence to be her ‘mother’.
Bring it on Tiger! LOL
Facebook Status: Crown Prince is determined in the location Palace.
Kalimera @Packmule3!
Let’s see what will happen tonight after that cliffhanger!
Thanks @pkml3.
Hmmm usually the lipstick is not so obvious but these gifs make Junho look overly lipsticked!! I still like his crooked smile!
My weekend shows are here!! Of all the dramas I am watching, I am loving this most so far, taking notice of Junho a bit more. I love how the colour tone is so pink because of the young court ladies attire, coupled with the green lush planting. Secret Inspector Joy has a more earthy colour tone.
Yes, the weekend shows are here! Weโre spoiled this fall with all the kdrama offerings. ๐
@packmule3,
I just noticed that the code is messed up…๐
Can you fix it, please? ๐๐บ๐ช
Which code, @cleopatra?
Kalispera @Packmule3,
I wanted only the FB status on bold. I thought I got the code right.
My phrase that starts afterwards “Kalimera up to cliffhanger” I wanted to be in normal font.
๐ Give me a few minutes. I only have my iPhone with me. Will switch to laptop
@Packmule3,
Take your time! Thank you in advance! <3
Done!
You’re welcome. ๐
Yes. Episode 5 is out and it’s 98% subbed. Woohoo! I’m glad I sent everybody out today. hahaha.
@packmule3,
Daebak! I will saw it later…!
I need to finish something first… ๐
I just watched episode 5 and a lot of couple moments in this one๐ This drama is growing on me with its slowly developing forbidden romance. I liked the interactions at the beginning on the road when the prince confesses, and I really liked the poetry reading at night with just the screen separating them. Junho’s acting was spot on when he was describing why he is enduring his grandfather’s behavior. Is it just me or does the prince’s secretary seem untrustworthy?
I’m going watch to re-watch parts of ep.5 now – I already feel the beginnings of angsty slow burn romance๐
Anneyong!
What a great episode! JunHo tonight was amazing! I am very impressed with how he is expressing himself and how he is holding back too.
I agree with @Phoenix his confession was amazing. He is smitten with Deok Im and it shows. At times, she has him in her palm.
The politics in the Palace are a mess. Head Court Lady Jo doesn’t want San because of what his late father did. Princess Hwawan and her son are plotting against him as well for their own reasons. Basically a lot of people are against him with different agendas.
Even his own mother, in a way, is plotting against him. She knew that Deok Im was happy to see the Crown Prince and she basically ruined DI’s Special Day by forcing him to say in front of her, that he won’t take a Concubine of poor background.
@Phoenix, I don’t trust the secretary as well. He ordered to kill our girl in the spot and HE KNEW exactly who she was. He is a mean man and he has his own plot. The way he asked her if the Crown Prince has feelings for her is to be noticed.
I am impressed by Deok Im and the way she went into the Crown Prince’s chamber, even though she knew that if she was found in, she would be sentenced to death by the King himself.
Deok Im is San’s perfect match from Heaven. She used as an excuse that she will reveal to him what is in her heart. She basically comforted him with the only way she could. She sworn her allegiance to serve and protect Yi San. Those tears in his face showed it all.
I like how their romance is progressing. From a touch of frienship to a touch of mutual understanding that will become deeper as time passes by.
It is happening already! What a great story to watch!
Absolutely agree with you, @Cleopatra. I think they will find that they can depend only on each other when everyone else around them turns out to be traitorous. It’s such a beautifully unfolding closeness, when they both know they can’t have any sort of relationship because of the difference in their stations. Can’t wait for tomorrow’s episode.
@Phoenix,
They can. As long as the King gives his permission it can happen. Also Episode 1 was a foreshadow.
Their characters are based on the real King and his Concubine.
I think @nrllee posted information about it.
Same over here! I am watching that last scene. What a scene…!
Yes, they did get married in the end, as per history, though DI does die some time after marriage. Their love story was dramatized in old another Korean drama – Lee San, Wind of the Palace (2007) where Ha Ji-min played DI’s character. It was of course much before I started watching kdramas in 2016, but I read about it when Red Sleeve Cuff was announced.
By the way, I liked the poem at the end so much that I did my research on ‘The Book of Odes’. ‘The Book of Odes’ (or Shi king/ching, also translated as ‘The Classic of Poetry’ or ‘The Book of Songs’) is a collection of poems written by various anonymous authors over several centuries. The poem DI was reciting is from The Odes of Bei. Here is the internet translation of the Chinese poem:
Cold blows the north wind;
Thick falls the snow.
Ye who love and regard me,
Let us join hands and go together.
Is it a time for delay?
The urgency is extreme!
The north wind whistles;
The snow falls and drifts about.
Ye who love and regard me,
Let us join hands, and go away for ever.
Is it a time for delay?
The urgency is extreme!
Nothing red is seen but foxes,
Nothing black but crows.
Ye who love and regard me,
Let us join hands, and go together in our carriages.
Is it a time for delay?
The urgency is extreme!
The drama translation of the poem as per Viki is slightly different, through the gist is the same:
The north wind is chilly,
the falling snow is thick,
If you are affectionate and love me.
I will hold your hand and go with you.
You are so modest, you are so slow,
but oh, there is urgency!
Are foxes only red and ravens only black?
If you are affectionate and love me.
I will hold your hand and part with you.
The north wind is cold
the falling snow is voluminous
If you love me and are affectionate
With the one I love and who likes me
I’ll hold your hand and part with you.
Why do you hesitate so? Oh, there is urgency!
The north wind is chilly
the falling snow is thick
If you are affectionate and love me
I’ll hold your hand and go back with you.
Are foxes only red and ravens only black?
If you are affectionate and love me.
I will hold your hand and go in your carriage.
I loved this joint recitation of the poem by both of them – it felt like a confession from them, voicing their feelings through the words of the poem.
On another not, I really feel for Yi San, it’s like the sins of the father are visited on him, for no fault of him. Everyone suspects him of descending into madness and killing people like his father, and hence deems him to be unfit for the throne. I think he has to doubly prove himself in everything that he does, just to demonstrate that he is not like his father. It becomes more difficult as he is the splitting image of his father and obviously people expect him to turn out just like his father. I think he is too serious and disciplined because of this, and holds himself in check all the time. DI is like the only ray of light for him, possibly the only time he smiles.
Any thoughts on the elder court lady who came in during the ceremony? There was some obvious tension between her and the head court lady. Who was the pupil she was mentoring? She had a limp but I wonder if it was age or an injury inflicted on her by the mad crown prince? The tension between the two may be related to the mad prince or court intrigue. The poem was beautiful – thank you for printing it out. I like the Viki translation better but maybe because of Junhoโs voice. While I think she enjoyed his favoring her to that point – she fell in love with him when he said what kind of king he would be.
@Phoenix, @Cleo, @Good Twin
Thanks for the 2 translations of the poem, @Phoenix. Yes, it sounded like a confession, and when recited by both, a mutual confession.
It was a poem that DI chose, so, she was possibly giving him a message. He’d told her that he was captivated by her. Choosing to do the night shift and to bring that book to read was her response. She was saying that if he had regard for her or because he did, (she would go with him/stay with him) she would support him as best she could. After the king left them, she went in to look San in the eye and to lay out the sentiments of the poem, or rather her own sentiments, in no uncertain terms.
Yes as @Cleo says, it was to comfort him and to let him know that despite his mother and other intrigue, that she was on his side.
When she noted that the fraught relationship with grandfather king had been going on for some time, I wonder if DI remembered that she’d met San when they were children, and how afraid San had been at being found in his grandmother’s room.
Grandpa does not know any better way of bringing up his beloved grandson than to punish him into being different from his dad. Poor San’s life has been blighted by his father.
I agree that he’s in the position where he’s constantly doubly trying to prove that he’s not like his father. He is always under stress, knowing he has to excel, and to be above criticism. Poor chap does not seem to have had a happy-go-lucky day in his life.
He needs to skip some stones on the pond with DI!
Adding further to why DI entered the Prince’s quarters to pledge her loyalty to him.
It was to make up for what had happened in the beginning when he’d saved her from being killed.
Before the secret meeting DI said to San : “I came all the way here under Princess Hyebin’s command.”
San : “Have you gathered what sort of place this is, what I am doing here, and why?”
DI : “All I know is that you’re attending to work of importance. I failed you, Your Highness. I shall not make the same mistake twice.”
San goes on the floor where she sits to hold her up by her shoulder, so that he can look into her eyes : “Since when have you relied on my mother’s patronage? I believed you were under mine. when Princess Hwawan was going to do away with you, I stood in her way. Were you even then, serving my mother?”
DI is silent. She was beholden towards his mother for keeping her and her brother alive. San was more concerned that he did not have as much influence over her as he thought. And particularly concerned that she was with him because of his mother and not for his own sake. He was hoping for loyalty to himself.
He speaks of her death being the means to silence her but she does not react.
San : “Why are you not afraid? I can cut short your life this very minute.”
DI : “Yes, you hold my life in your hands. I should be scared, but I do not know why I am not fearful.”
He tries to sack her as a court lady and tells her to leave the place grounds. This elicits more response from her than a threat to her life LOL.
DI : “Your Highness!” โฆ”Truly, my lord? Please forgive me. It was only on my firm belief that you would save me from my fate. I believed in my heart that my lord does not wish to see me die, but that I would, were I to forsake the wishes of Princess Hyebin. I did not want to die.”
(LOL in other words, his mum was more scary than him! So it sounded like she was more loyal to his mother out of fear.)
“Why did you not inform me of this? You followed my mother’s commands while turning your back on me.”
(This is a question of whom she was loyal to again. He stressed from before, that he would be the one to decide what happened to his own people, the ones who served him. He would take care of them but he expected unflinching loyalty in return. Hence he broke the rules to hunt the tiger on his own, without the king’s permission, in order to keep his people safe.)
So at the end of the episode, when DI chose to do the night shift, she brought the poem to read to profess her loyalty to San.
Catching up with your comments when I can, currently only watching halfway through episode 5 and bringing kids out to play before I come back and finish the rest of the episode.
The prince’s secretary is certainly suspicious. Historically, I think the Prince got rid of his secretary much later on. I didn’t like how he looked down on the court maids, that their opinions do not matter. And it probably reflects a majority of nobles in their view of the lower class.
I loved the Prince’s confession to DeokIm. Not your usual “I like you”. Historically, he confessed to her 3 times, before she accepted him. There were strong reasons why she couldn’t, I can’t remember for now, will go find out later.
Yi San and Deok Im: The Signs of Yi San’s Feelings for her
It’s sweet that San does not try too hard to hide his feelings or to lie.
1) It immediately becomes obvious that DI is a favourite of San’s, since he took time to speak with her before the secret meeting, and even allowed her to sit in to listen. She ends up being a member of the “The Dongdeok Order”.
2) As a sign of how meticulous Yi San is, he has looked into DI’s background and memorised her family’s name, and her friends’ names. I was impressed. It shows he is extremely careful about whom he trusts. It also shows that he’s interested enough in this lowly court lady to have bothered.
I wish he’d double check on his friend Hong Deok Ro as well, since the Hong clan are constantly out to get him.
3) He bothered to go on a book shopping spree and to bestow precious texts on her, deigning even to offer to explain difficult passages. San was under the impression that he was showing her great patronage and that she’d be impressed to have him as her teacher. She, however thought of this as punishment LOL.
San : “You don’t look very happy.
DI : “Yes, I am very.”
San : “Truly?”
DI : “Truly, my lord. My shortcomings today were great, but received a light rather than heavy punishment. I am moved by your kindness.”
San : “What punishment? I present you with these priceless texts and offer to explain difficult passages. How is that punishment?”
She’s taken aback that this might be a reward. LOL
โฆ
San : “Enough of that. It pains me to see you waste your time on senseless stories, so this is my special gift to you.”
DI : “I once escaped the claws of a tiger by reading a book (a novel).”
San : “The circumstances were dire and you had to gather the court ladies. Something as little as a drop of honey will help gather in the bees or ants, wouldn’t you say?”
DI : “Are the ladies of the court a colony of ants? Gyeomsaseo, that’s a bit offensive โฆ”
They stopped when she realised her mistake.
San : “A few moments ago, even when I said I could have you killed, you were not fearful. Now I know why.” (It was hard for DI to be scared of someone at whom she had been throwing salt and kicking out of the library LOL) “To you, I am still the gyeomsaseo from the past.”
Instead of getting angry, San sighs : “I still wonder why I pretended to be a gyeomsaseo. At first, I saw no need to correct you. But as time passed, I lost the will to tell you. That’s because the moments we shared in the library were special to me. The moments we were together there, I thought you were captivated by me.”
(I wonder why he should think so, since much of her behaviour towards him had been rude. She’d argued with and grumbled at him.) “But I’m not sure anymore. Did I captivate you? Were you really captivated by me? Or was it that I was captivated by you?”
Isn’t an honest man, making a sincere confession, just so hot!!! (*fans self*)
4)Yi San is aghast to see DI dressed up in ceremonial garb. Regardless of his retinue, he runs across to her and grabs her arm.
“Why did you tie you hair up like a married woman? Did you by any chance come into the favour of His Majesty?” (He was afraid that he’d lose her to the king who’d accumulated many concubines.
He had just made a fool of himself, over a girl, in front of a bunch of retainers. His personal bodyguard said to the Eunuch : “I feel a personal affinity towards His Highness today. He just made a clown of himself.”
(Bodyguard Kang Tae Ho felt that the Crown Prince was relatable, when it came to making a mistake. He’d been made to feel like a fool when he questioned San over DI before, so now it’s like karma, that San made a fool of himself, and over the same girl).
5) Princess Hyebin engineers that DI should be disillusioned should she think that she can become San’s concubine.
San to his mother : “Don’t you know, mother? I’ve never even once known a lady of the court.”
Princess Hyebin : “That may not be the case in the future.”
San : “You are mistaken, mother. As for me, I have no intention of keeping a woman of humble status beside me. (These are the words that he contradicts at the end of the episode when he asks DI to just stay by his side).
When the curtain is raised and San sees that DI has heard what he said and looks upset, he feels bad for her. He is mindful enough of his servant’s feelings, to understand that she’s been hurt on her special Coming-of-Age day.
6) When DI came to serve him the night of his punishment, he did not mind that she saw him at his worst and he was open with her.
San : “I thought you were angry with me from the day of the ceremony.”
DI : “How could I ever be angry with you, my lord?”
San : “The one day set aside for you, I ruined it for you. I know you were unhappy.”
DI : “No, my lord. It was for the better, for now I know where my lord’s true heart lies.”
San : “You do not know where my true heart lies. While neither do I know where your true heart lies.” (This is harks back to the unanswered question on whether he captivated her or not.)
These words and what he had said earlier to her when he confessed that he liked her might have remained in her mind. They are interrupted by grandpa king being violent in an effort to beat the ‘mad father’ out of poor San.
After the king leaves, DI : “May I ask a question, my lord?”
San : “You may.”
DI : “Do you bear it because you have no other choice?”
He’s trembling with emotion as he replies : “I hold back to attain my aims, and I bear it to get what I want. I know what pain is. And I know how many others are also suffering. I am the Crown Prince of this land. One day I will have the strength. with that strength, there are so many who I can help. I have so many plans in store for the future. Do you know? As for you, just stay by my side. That’ll be enough.”
(Meaning both to physically stay close as well as to be loyal to him. It rather contradicts what he said about keeping a low born woman by his side.)
She thinks about what he said as enough, and decides that it’s not enough. She goes into San’s room.
DI : “There is something I must tell you, my lord. It is what is in my heart of hearts.” (An answer to his saying he did not know where her true heart lies.)
She looks up at him : “Until the succession day to the throne, my lord may rest assured that I will be a loyal assistant and protector. (This is partly to fulfill what Prince Hyebin ordered her to do.) I believe my lord will achieve his ends.”
San : “You’re merely a lady of the court, how will you protect me?”
DI : “I am merely a court lady, but I am your servant. I will remain by your side until the very end as your loyal servant. Until the day life leaves me, I shall assist and protect you, my lord.” (As a servant, she has better access to him than others of higher status.)
She offers him a formal bow (of obeisance?) and looks him straight in the eyesโฆ something that is not required of her by Hyebin, or even by San. San is very touched as evidenced by his tears.
Thank you, @GB for recapping those interactions in such detail. I too find an otherwise controlled man expressing his feelings honestly, instead of the MLs like Chief Hong who are overly extroverted. I’m totally hooked by Junho’s portrayal of future King Jeongjo, his acting shows so much depth of unspoken emotions. I’m still not impressed by the FL here, but maybe she will grow on me. I liked her better in this episode, though Junho’s recitation was far more emotional than hers.
I noticed too that DI was surprised by the fact that YS had looked into her background, she didn’t expect him to be so interested. I have a feeling YS will now trust DI with more weighty state-related tasks, knowing that she is intelligent and has an opinion about things.
YS doesn’t dismiss DI’s feelings as insignificant, as a prince surely can. He takes time to explain things to her and even almost apologizes for spoiling her ceremony day. This is in sharp contrast to how the secretary and others view her – as a lowly servant beneath attention with no will or say of her own, whose opinion doesn’t matter. This is what I like about their relationship- let’s face it, the crown prince has all the say in this power equation and this could so easily have been an unequal relationship because he can force her to do anything. But we never feel that she is compelled. DI feels it too on a subconscious level, and that’s why she wasn’t scared of someone who is actually her master and the all-powerful would-be king holding her life in his hands. This aspect is very unique and shows how considerate YS is as a person.
@grace I didn’t know that historically King Jeongjo had confesses to Deok Im three times begore she accepted. Thank you for that interesting info๐
@Good Twin: Yes after reading your comment, I’m wondering why the old court lady was introduced to the narrative suddenly unlessshe has a role to play later. Maybe there will be some flashback on why there is that enmity between the current leading court lady (who opposes Yi San by the way) and the old one. Interesting point to note, thank you for that๐
@Good Twin @Phoenix, About the aged Court Lady Park, I recall she appeared once before in another episode also looking very doddering. I wondered then if it was to remind us of what Head Court Lady had told DI, ie that the Court Ladies aimed to be able to die in the palace and to have a nice send off. Perhaps Court Lady Park, who looks to be on her last legs, is to bring this point into focus once again. The difference between her send off and the one DI had witnessed may be a catalyst for something.
As for the backstory of why Head Court Lady had that look on her face when she saw Lady Park, we’ll have to hope to be told or shown.
What we gathered from this episode is that Lady Park is the mentor of DI’s friend, Young Hui.
I really enjoyed all your comments!
@GB Unnie thank you for trascribing those scenes. I would also do so but you got me first!
I have watched three times the confession scene and more than five times the last scene.
@Phoenix, I am feeling that in this episode Yi San had the lights upon him. That’s why JunHo was amazing. It was revealed to us how is the Crown Prince’s life. How he is being treated by his grandfather the King. Even how his own mother treats him! He heard why he wants to be a King. What is in his mind.
Until know we didn’t know. He was unreadable. We only knew that he is attracted to Deok Im.
I believe that Lee Se-Young will shine tonight. Mostly because she has given us plenty of moments of her good acting. They are a good match and I am enjoying their chemistry.
For instance, in the last scene after the poem reciting, she got emotional as well after having witnessing what the King did to the Crown Prince. While she asked him that question, San answered to her sincerely when he was hearbroken and emotional. His guard was completely doing and he was crying and Deok Im knew that.
That sequence of events in such a short time changed the way she was looking at him. @GoodTwin has a point. She fell in love with him at that moment exactly. Deok Im was in pain herself, even though she hid it behind her stoic persona, but her glance revealed it all. Because that she was trained to do as a Court Lady.
That for me is great acting from Se Young. As I said to someone a few days ago, you can have a pockerface, but your eyes reveal it all.
Hence when moments later, Deok Im swore allegiance to San, she was able to saw his tears herself.
Another moment of great significance as @GB Unnie wrote above. The whole scene strenghtened their bond: Firstly as San’s servant, then as library friends and lastly as potential lovers.
@Cleo,
I really like what Show is doing so that San does not remain a cipher. It has humanised him so much so we can forgive his fussiness or when he’s high-handed with his servants. He was very patient with DI when she first had to serve him. Yes, I liked that Show has given us the moments and transitions from stranger who dissed him but yet who could speak stoutly with him, to affronted servant, to court lady and companion. We can see why they would fall in love.
I only felt that the camera may have got the wrong angle for Lee Se Yong when she was staring supposedly at San on the street. It didn’t look as if she was looking at him, for some reason, but like it was a vacant stare. She tends to have small irises, therefore if she opens her eyes wider, there’s too much white and she looks like her eyes are popping out. However, I’m fine with her acting. She’s balancing the being spirited and yet being restraint and respectful quite well.
About when DI fell in love with San. I actually felt that when he spoke to his mother, it was a more impressive recital. He said “I’ve known nothing but the comforts of life as the Crown Prince. But as I ate rare foods and wore expensive clothes of silk, I grew a sense of responsibility. That I shall dedicate my life to the good of the Joseon Dynasty. And put its interests above those of my private life.” However at this time, DI was already upset at hearing him dismiss the low born ladies.
But later, when he told her very emotionally that he wanted to help his subjects and that he was bearing with the ill-treatment in order to be able to put the interests of Joseon above his own, then DI decided to see him face to face. Yes, it might have been then that she confirmed she could fall in love with him, but she might have been moved already much earlier.
@GB Unnie,
You are right about that scene, but it was not Se Young’s fault here. It was the director’s and photograph director’s who didn’t noticed how she was being filmed.
I really like Se Young as an actress. I have watched her in the “Korean Odyssey” and in the “Memorist”. She was a bundle of joy in the first one and a respected and solemn Profiler in the second one.
I think she fell in love with him before that. The exact time would be when she went to the King to ask him to forgive the Crown Prince. She wanted to save her Nari at that time, but she did it for Yi San without knowing who he was then. That means she liked him from that time and forward.
Also, he saved her life when his cruel Aunt – Princess wanted to kill her. Then, she had to face his Mother – Princess, who almost got her killed again! I mean let us be honest. Who in his / her right mind would be okay after all these incidents that in a span of few days his / her life would be in danger twice, like she was nothing.
Deok Im is a brave girl / woman who got herself involved into the Palace politics. Even the Head Court Lady is plotting against the Crown Prince, but at the same time in court, she is trying to play matchmaker. She wants Deok Im to be the Royal Concumbine.
As for the old Mammanim Park, I agree with @GB Unnie, we saw her before and she seems to be at odds with the Current Head Court Lady. I do hope she has power in her hands even though she is frail because of her old age.
Unfortunately, Viki didn’t translate tonight’s preview. We only know that Deok Im will take all measures to clean Yi San’s name using not only “DongDeok Order”, but getting help from the current Queen.
@GB I loved that scene when San confronted DI, I felt she was really smart in being able to turn his ‘scoldings’ to a praise. And later on from the book shopping to his confession to her.
Their closeness grew from the library meetings and although DeokIm was upset with San for ‘tricking’ her, we all understand why he didn’t want to reveal his identity. That will create a clear master/servant line between both of them which he can’t bear to because he must have enjoyed her company a lot, to be able to converse comfortably.
I like how @phoenix describes the dynamics of the San and DI, it is really a special one and obvious that her mind and opinions attracted him. It was when they were able to converse as somewhat equals, did their connection begin. There was no barriers like how a court maid and a king would converse.
Historyically, one of the reasons why DeokIm rejected San, I read someome’s post on twitter, that it was because Queen Hyui (Yisan’s 1st wife) and DeokIm were close; and that Deokim was Yisan’s mum’s court lady since she was 10.
I’m not sure about the validity of the source so I’m kinda reading up a little bit from more proper sources. DeokIm was the only one whom San chose for a concubine. All the other concubines and the queen were chosen by the palace (more like for his duty as a king to produce a son).
ok off to finish the rest of the episode, looking forward to the poetry scene. *heart eyes*
Some back story on the poem called “North Wind”. It is from the Book of Odes, the oldest existing collection of Chinese poetry from the 11th-7th BC. A classic book of 300 poems/songs, it is a revered Confucian classic.
Some explanations of the poem describes the political situation of the Zhou dynasty and how one side wants to make an escape together. Wind and snow are metaphors for the unstable situation, as if really dire.
The fox and crow are metaphors for the incompetent or evil people in charge that has caused the chaos. And we know how the fox is usually sly; and the crow brings to mind, a sinister bird, usually a harbinger of misfortune or death.
Of course other interpretations include what we see in the translations in the drama. About a man and woman eloping because they are not embraced by the people around them.
Actually because this was such an old book and there was a period when Emperior Qin Shi Huang burned many books, the original story of Houyi who shot down the 9 (red) suns and Houyi’s wife Chunhu (Black) fox, got lost. So it is said that the original should be referring to the black fox and the red raven. I thought their translation “Are foxes only red and ravens only black?” seemed to relate to the idea of the original poem.
Nonetheless, to me it was a poem with two meanings. Of how DeokIm feels about her situation with YiSan, that she would want him to be clear with his intentions but also reading her feelings in the poem. 2. Of the political situation in the palace.
When Yisan admitted how his words has ruined an important day for DeokIm, he did not ignore her feelings but acknowledged them. He is one who is able to empathise and see others point of view. He is not selfish and self-seeking. THAT is probably what DeokIm saw, and admired.
Oh to clarify about the red sun represented red ravens because when Houyi shot down the 9 suns that burned the earth, 9 3-legged ravens (for each red sun) fell.
After that ending are we supposed to wait until next Friday?
More tomorrow…
Still on Episode 5 … Thank you @Grace for the background and the interpretations of the classic poem, ‘North Wind’. It has brought greater clarity and insight into what Deok Im might have been thinking. It reflects the situation (both political and personal) that we are watching, and it resonates with our characters. Hence alternately reciting the lines between them, DI and San can be speaking of more than one thing at the same time, and neither may know exactly to which interpretation the other refers, or that they both meant the same thing or not.
It might have started off as DI wanting to give San comfort, since his books were taken away, and as San wanting to just hear another human voice to keep him company, in his boredom. But interspersed with their honest conversation in which, as you say, San showed that he did not dismiss her feelings, and interrupted by the king’s outburst of grandfatherly fears, the poem took on an added significance.
Taking from the translation that @Phoenix’s posted above:
San told her that he would continue to endure whatever it took to reach his goal to be a good king, and asked that she remain on his side, by his side. This reflected the sentiment of the poem, while it told DI what was in San’s heart of hearts.
I agree with you that:
So DI wanted to ensure that they were on the same page, and that there were no misinterpretations (of the poem, of what San had asked her about whether he captivated her or not, and what had transpired in their conversation that night).
DI insisted on entering into his presence, to see him face-to-face, to state what was in her heart as well. She promised to literally and metaphorically hold his hand, go away with him, enter his carriage and to love him as her king.
She would be his servant, ie she would take his lead. We know San’s intentions as the future king, now we have to see if he will make his intentions clear regarding DI in his life.
Episode 6 made me giddy๐ฅฐ..Yi San called Deok Im “You are my person” twice, and gave me flashbacks of 4th Prince/Wang So calling Hae Soon that in memorable scenes from Moin Lovers: Scarlet Heart Ryeo.
I’m starting to hate that weird creepy smile of the secretary..he’s very weird.
Thank you everyone for the poem, its history, and interpretation.
I agree that tutor/librarian/secretary Hong is creepy. I have not seen the actor before, but he is doing a good job. I remember Lee Se Young from The Crowned Clown and Kairos. I have never seen Junho in anything. I am impressed by his portrayal of the Crown Prince. The actor who plays the old King Yeongjo is outstanding as well.
@grace Thank you for the explanation of the raven and the fox. I was wondering what that line meant in the context of the poem because YS asked DI if she understands the meaning, the way he teases her about being naive๐
@Snow Flower I agree, the actor playing the king is great. I found the queen in episode 6 interesting too, she seems to be another important part of the palace politics. I was impressed how inexperienced DI was able to navigate the politics and free YS.
The fall at the end was a bit clumsy though ๐
@Phoenix, I was rather surprised by the Queen’s portrayal in this drama. In other dramas about King Jeongjo (Conspiracy in the Court and Eight Days) that same Queen is shown as an enemy of Yi San.
@Snow Flower Interesting info, I didn’t know that. Well, dramas do take liberty with history, hence the disclaimer at the beginning. Wonder historically if the queen qas for or against king Jeongjo’s ascension to the throne. Here they may have put up the princess as the antagonist instead of the king, because she wants to make her adopted son the king.
*instead of the queen, I mean. The queen seems to be a sympathetic character so far.
@Phoenix, I always am hopeful that the characters who look nice are really trustworthy, especially in court intrigue, but I’m also not surprised at the betrayals.
So far DI has been fortunate.
– The King was friendly with her as a child, and although displeased with her request to forgive San when she was almost of age, he didn’t carry out his threat to have her killed. He turns at a drop of a hat.
– The Head Court Lady seemed to like DI’s honesty, her courage, etc and to look favourably upon her, hence she had the opportunities to meet the crown prince and king. But Head Ct Lady is out to get rid of San, and so will be DI’s enemy.
– The Queen is another one good at playing the waiting game, and at making use of people. She does not do favours for free.
San says of the Queen : “The Queen is forminable. She seats a naรฏve maid in front of her, and disarms her with games of riddles to pry out the information she is looking for.” So she appears nice but one cannot trust her entirely.
By contrast, someone so out and out against DI and Yi San is easier to deal with. Immediately San gives instructions to watch Princess Hwaran and her son. However it’s not evident that he ever considered Deok Ro a possible traitor.
It’s interesting that Deok Ro tells DI not to befriend his sister. It’s like he’s determined that they’ll be on opposite sides and it is best they do not complicate matters by becoming friends at all.
Deok Ro, the Gyeomsaseo and his performance on the bridge
DR’s family seems to be poor. He did not have new court robes, only ones that had been mended. DR asks his sister, Dan if she likes the palace. She does and he says good.
DI who is listening wonders why he said ‘Good.’ (There is perhaps a plan to get his sister to enter the palace?)
DR to DI : “I never thought my sister would come with you, my lady.”
DI : “I was surprised. I never thought she was your sister.
DR : “Thank you. she’s a timid girl and she would have been deeply discouraged.”
DI : “I didn’t think you’d ever thank me.” (He’d looked down on her before.)
They are on a bridge over a pond, clearly visible to any person who happened to be outside.
DR : “But next time, don’t ever do this again. Don’t ingratiate yourself to my sister.
DI is surprised : “I didn’t ask for your gratitude.”
DR : “Don’t even think about being friendly with my sister. Such a relationship is inadvisable.” (He does not want to be on a friendly footing with her or for his sister to become attached to DI. He is looking ahead to when they will be enemies?)
DI : “I doubt that I will ever see her again.”
DR gives a smile (the creepy one) that looks like trouble : “Don’t be so sure about that. In order to repay my sister’s debt, I will give you a piece of news that you may find interesting.”
The performance on the bridge – DR grabs DI’s shoulder to draw her very near and says close to her ear : “Her Highness the Queen secretly persuaded His Majesty to lift the Crown Prince’s confinement order. (He leans back to look closely at her face) Oh my. You were already aware of this. So, was it you that persuaded the Queen?”
He refused to let go of her shoulder when she tried to move away.
“I’m truly impressed with your talent. I worry that you could replace me as His Highness’ closest confidante.”
San had seen this meeting. It’s likely that DR knew San would be walking about there at that time, and deliberately pulled DI close to him, to look like they were intimate. This was another of his tests for both DI and San.
Before this, while shooting arrows, San and DR had already spoken of the Queen being the one who got him out of confinement. So his pretending to tell DI some news was to test her and to put on a show for San. He already knew that San liked DI above all the Court Ladies, and was starting to manipulate him.
San had said to DR : “So it was the Queen who persuaded the King to lift the confinement order.”
DR : “Yes.”
San : “She’s not one to help without a reason.”
DR : “Someone must have moved her to act.”โฆ “I hear that Court Lady Sung is serving at the Q’s Palace. She could be the reason for the Q’s kindness.”
San : “Why do you hold a mere court lady in such high esteem? I trust her, but I do not think highly of her talent.” (Sam is actually speaking truthfully, although he does not disparage her too much to her face and even praised her.)
DR : “Is that so? I myself think highly of her talents, but do not trust her.” (This is played out on the bridge when DR speaks in DI’s ear.)
This gives San pause.
DR : “I think that Court Lady Sung had something to do with it. If we use her, we could find out more information. Shall I meet her alone?” (DR was testing San. He wanted to see if he could get under his skin by saying that he’d meet DI alone.)
San’s arrow hits the board (I thought he’d miss actually! LOL He didn’t let what DR said, get to him.)
DR : “I thought you would miss. You always miss with the final arrow.” (Is this a comment on what DR thinks of San? That he would appear fine, but at the end, he would fail?)
San : “I hit the target thoughtlessly. I should have been more humble. (I’m not sure what San is referring to here.) Forget about Court Lady Sung. There’s no need to meet her alone. I will talk to her myself when she returns to my palace. (From this DR can guess that San will be jealous if DR met with her. Hence, the performance on the bridge to push San’s buttons.)
Yes, @GB, In true Sageuk fashion, royal courts are ride with intrigue, treachery and backstabbing. So you are right, one never knows who is on which side. The outright villains like Princess Hwaran and her son are probably easier to target and counter, than the hidden enemies pretending to be allies.
I think this is also why Yi San treasures Deok Im so much, he knows she is the only person he can truly trust in a world of duplicitous relationships where everyone is out to use the other for their personal gain. I also think that’s why he calls Deok Im as “his person”, the one closest to him. It must be difficult living such a life where one doesn’t know who to trust, and to find the one person to rely on can seem like a sanctuary.
Interesting that Yi San doesn’t fully trust Deok Ro too, because Yi San kept his interactions with Deok Im a secret from him, that he knew she had enlisted help from the queen. When in the bath-house Deok Im informed him of the secretary’s behaviour, he didn’t dispute it saying his secretary could never behave like that. He accepted Deok Im’s eord over his secretary’s. This proves who is truly trusts over every else.
I believe being able to speak with her almost like a equal previously when they first met at the library has helped built their relationship.
It is commendable, what Yi San bore to achieve his aims at being king, not for selfish power but for the good of his own people.
“I hold back to attain my aims”
“With that strength there are so many who I can help.”
I realise that this is a side he doesn’t seem to reveal or make known, and we see the revelation he makes to DeokIm.
I wondered what DeokRo wants. If he is not for the other side, then he is also not for the fall of the Crown Prince then what? as @GB pointed out of the incident at the bridge, it seems that he will be jealous that DeokIm will replace him as the Prince’s confidante.
I was reading parts of this translation which is really quite bad but I can make out some parts and that as the Crown Prince’s right hand man, he seems to want power of influence.
@GB, if the drama follows what is known historically, as King Jeongjo right hand man, Gyeomsaseo was able to make his younger sister (we saw her in episode 6), the concubine of King Jeongjo but she died suddenly within a year (poisoned?). It writes that he is hoping that she would produce an heir but she seemed to not be favoured by Jeongjo’s mother or his official wife. He was eventually exiled by the king and died young for some other issue.
https://m.blog.naver.com/duqhdigmlwns/222113352032?s=09
So it seems that DeokIm is and will be YiSan’s confidante, unwavering support and soul mate. He is able to open up honestly to her and I believe because they share similar values and admired each other, it is inevitable love will blossom.
@Grace, thanks for more background to what happened in history. Knowing that, we hope we can look forward to a nice love story amidst all the intrigue.
@Phoenix, true that San has kept his dealings with DI from DR. I hope he remains cautious.
The weak link might by his forgetful bodyguard who unguardedly tells all to DR.
@Grace, thanks for that background. Maybe that’s what his plans for his sister are. He does seem power hungry, maybe because of his poor upbringing.
@GB I agree, the secretary is an unknown equation. I’m happy Yi San and Deok Im do get together at the end, though for dynastic sake, it is understandable that he will need to take a chief wife from a noble family. I think that’s also what he meant when he was telling his mother this – he doesn’t mean to shirk hos duty because he knows a royal marriage and heir is expected of him, but he doesn’t mean to toy with Deok Im and abandon her either. She will always be in nearest one at heart, even though because of the mores of the time, he can’t make het chief royal consort.
The DI and YS Conversations (Broken into 4 parts)
Before San was confined, DI had been transcribing in the library and listening to San speaking from the next pavilion : “The fate of the kingdom can be determined by my actions. I can never let myself go. Nothing of mine is private.”
DI said to herself or to the cat on the wall hanging : “Doesn’t your hand just extend out to someone like that? All for the good of his future subjects. Even though the Crown Prince won’t need as much as a whimper from a mere Court Lady.”
Conversation 1
However she became the Court Lady who did more than whimper in order to help him. She attended the Dongdeok Order meeting and conveyed San’s instructions.
‘Keep an eye on Lord Jung, Princess Hwawan’s adopted son. He is a master of intrigue and deception. He must not be taken lightly.’ (Seo Kyung Joong in the Dongdeok Order said he’d do this).
‘I need someone’s help to lift this confinement order. Tell them to find someone who can speak candidly to His Majesty.’ (No one could be found to do this.)
DI wondered why no one thought of the queen as a possible person, and ended up taking on this task herself as goaded by DR.
Deok Ro had spoken to DI. He noted that the most unanticipated thing was that a woman would enter the Dongdeok Order, “a lowly 9th ranked court lady, no less, but a very bold court lady. We men would never have thought of approaching her (the queen). Such a thought is a blasphemy. We wouldn’t be able to persuade her in secret. By my lady (Deok Im) is different from us. Isn’t that right?” He bent over at her patronisingly to look her in the eye.
DI reports to San that his instructions were delivered and that she may have found a way.
DI : “Send me, my lord. I shall approach the Queen, and ask for goodwill towards my lord. This is something only a woman can do.” (We learn later that it went a roundabout wayโฆ Princess Hyebin had been asked to send DI to the Queen. That way, DI could get a private audience with the Queen.)
Conversation 2
After her talk with the Queen, DI reports to San, mentioning the riddles.
San : “So, you got them all wrong?”
DI : “The Q didn’t tell me the answers, so I asked Lady Seo and she said none of my answers were right.”
San : “Were the Q’s riddles so difficult?”
‘What’s the world’s deepest recess?’ – The human heart.
‘Which of the world’s summits is the hardest to scale?’ – The Boritgogae Summit (literally ‘barley hill’, used to denote a time of famine.)
‘What is the world’s most precious flower.’ – The Cotton flower.
DI : “I’m ashamed, my lord.”
San : “Don’t fret. It’s alright.” “Why didn’t you give her a riddle yourself? A hard one.”
DI : “I did and the Q wasn’t able to solve it.”
San : “Really?”
DI : “Name the king who had three different kinds of bells.”
San : “King Sejong?”
DI : “Yes!”
He hits the door between them : “You call that a riddle! It’s not that the Q couldn’t solve it, she didn’t/wouldn’t.”
DI : “Your Highness, the last question the Q posed was a grave one.”
Cut to the Queen : “One final question, how does the Crown Prince view me?”
Back to San : “The Q is formidable. She seats a naรฏve maid in front of her, disarms her with games of riddles to pry out the information she is looking for.
San calls her familarly by her name : “Deon Im-ah.”
DI is pleased : “This may be the first time my lord has called me by my name.”
San : “You did well. I need the Q’s help. The throne will be out of reach for me without her support. Knowing that to be true, I wasn’t able to find a way. Thank you for helping me.”
DI : “I never thought that I would see the day. You praised me for my actions.”
San : “Credit must be given when it is due, because you are my person.”
Hearing San say that gets DI flustered but she comports herself : “It’s my honour, my lord.” She leaves and San laughs, remembering her childish riddle.
In actual fact, I found her answers to the Queen’s riddles pretty good. Those riddle questions seem to admit of more than 1 answer.
DI’s answers to the riddles : “I believe the world’s deepest recess is the universe that houses all creation, while the hardest summit to scale is the summit of fate. Heaven decides man’s fate, and man cannot change his fate without heaven. The world’s most precious flower is whichever one is most precious to a person. Panicles would be most precious to the hungry, while the flower of the licorice is to the herbalist, and the cotton flower would be for the one in need of clothing.
The Q looks at her with interest and checks her name again.
Q asks the formidable question : “How does the Crown Prince regard me?”
DI : “As a mirror. A mirror always emulates what it sees. As vital as my Q considers the Crown Prince, so too does the Crown P view the Q. As much as the motherly love the Q has shown the Crown P, as the Q’s son, the CP too will assume his dutiful role.
When she was alone the Queen said to herself : “A mirror always emulates what it sees. Will the sun rise as usual from the East?” (Or will there be a great upset in the order of things.)
Conversation 3
Afrer successfully getting San released, DI ends up for a while at the Q’s palace.
San to DI : “You can’t return to my palace for a while?”
DI : “The Queen has commanded that I stay with her a few more days.”
San :”Why?”
DI : “I don’t know. My apologies, Your Highness, but I must go run the Queen’s errand.”
San : “So, you’re going to leave?”
DI : “Unfortunately, the Queen is of higher rank than you.” (LOL and she goes off happily.)
San to himself : “I hope the Queen doesn’t keep her permanently.”
Conversation 4
No one wants to serve the grumpy, fault- finding San. DI is the sacrificial lamb, pushed into the Prince’s bathroom to serve him.
San is surprised to find that it’s DI who’s with him and gets a bit more dressed so that she can turn towards him and he can see her face.
San to DI : “I thought you were at the Queen’s Palace. When did you get here?”
DI : “I came here on a quick errand.”
San while giving her a long look : “Really?” DI gets self-conscious. She pours in the herbs and mixes it in the water.
San practically snorts : “You were alone with the gyeomsaseo last night, weren’t you?”
DI: “Pardon?”
San : “The gyeomsaseo and you. You were so intimate with him! What if someone saw the two of you like that?”
DI : “Did you see us?”
San : “Yes, I did!”
DI : “Then you should have scolded him for harassing this court lady! Why did you just watch?”
San looks puzzled.
DI : “Weren’t you aware that the gyeomsaseo constantly harasses the court ladies? That he makes them tell him secrets that they see in the palace?”
San just looks at her like he wants to protest.
DI : “You never scolded the gyeomsaseo, your right-hand man, but chose to lash out at this powerless court lady instead.”
San : “I don’t care about the other court ladies. The only one I care about โฆ” (His finger is already pointed at DI.) is โฆ my person.”
DI : “Were you worried about me?”
San : “Yes.”
DI : “I apologise for causing you concern.”
San : “That’s fine.”
DI : “Let me pour the water.”
San gets up to help her with the water, but of course she gets distracted by his bare chest and falls into the water in his arms. (I agree, it was a clumsy looking fall.)
Her hand was not at first on his shoulder, but in the last edit suddenly it’s on his shoulderโฆ LOL.
Unfortunately the preview only has her scrambling out of the bath so we do not know if any beyond long looks took place LOL.
@GB these are great notes. The mirror answer was quite clever. She revealed nothing. The Queen could project what she wanted into that mirror.
@GB Thank you for the couple interaction recaps. They helped me relive this nice episode๐
I do think Yi San underestimates Deok Im’s intelligence, unlike Deok Ro who sees her as a worthy threat for Yi San’s attention (hence that conversation between YS and DR during archery practice). It’s almost like YS wants DI to grow more intellectually, which is why he explains things to her (remember he also gave her his favorite books and asked her to make notes). Because he is interested in her as a person, he wants to mentor her into an intelligent partner. I’ve noticed Yi San doesn’t usually lie, he may lie by omission but not directly. So if he told DI she is naive, he does believe she is naive. I truly like how considerate he is about her – even though she is a servant and he is the master, he tries to help her carry the heavy pail of water, which should have been unthinkable for a crown prince.
A few notes:
1. I feel like DR has plans for his sister to marry the crown prince
2. Iโm surprised DR is showing his antipathy towards DI so blatantly. If DI ever asks San why he trusts DR and he replies with the time he saved his life by tearing the pages, she can easily nullify that claimโshe even kept the torn pages as proof. I realize he doesnโt know sheโs the one who was behind the curtain/wall but it just seems like a loose string that could easily be pulled to unravel his false loyalty.
3. The actress playing DI had finally started to not bother meโฆ and then the whole bath scene ๐๐๐ I mean, I donโt blame her one bit for jumping in, but I probably wouldโve take off my hanbok?/robes before leaping. Can she really not make a tumble look more convincing? Physical comedy and facial expressions are definitely her weakness. Maybe sheโd be more suitable in a Japanese manga?
Also
@GB thank you! ๐ช๐ช I so enjoy reading their interactions especially the riddle question/answers.
@Grace thanks for doing the history lesson footwork.
And on shooting the arrow in the bullseye:
the scene played like a rollercoaster on my emotions.
First I was nervous for him being goaded while shootingโthat he would miss and show his unease. I felt relieved that he hit the bullseye despite the goading and THEN it was disappointment because he actually DID show his hand by hitting the bullseyeโApparently he usually misses in order to seem more humble.
@birdie007 You’re welcome and thanks for correctly interpreting what San said about hitting the last bullseye. I was puzzled.
Yes, it’s strange that DR does not hide his dislike. He began before by trying to charm her, as he does all the other court ladies, but he seems to have stopped the moment she stumbled upon the Dongdeok Order. He’s openly stating that he sees her as a rival for the Crown Prince’s regard.
LOL the falling into the water scene. I’m thinking the director is also at fault. Instead of getting her to fall from a sitting position, they wanted her to fall from a standing position, so that she’d end up more in the middle and in San’s arms. It was awkwardly done and edited, however, but we know we’ll end up waiting for 2 weeks and probably will only get a scene of embarrassment and awareness of each other at the most, as the end to this bathroom outing. ๐
I think the only loyalty to which Deok Ro holds fast is to himself, and possibly to his family. He stays close to the Crown Prince because it serves his purposes. Being from a poor family, and from a clan that is known to oppose the king, hanging onto San’s coattails is the most expedient way he can climb the social ladder and ingratiate himself within the court. From what DR said to his sister, I suspect he will try to get her into training as a court lady. That will eventually get him a trustworthy channel to insider information. There may be a limit to how much useful information he can tease out of enraptured girls daily serving him water at the well. And from what DI tells San in the bath, DR regularly pressures court ladies into giving him information. I suspect San didn’t doubt that, because he’s been the recipient of that information from DR’s reports.
Being a female servant in a patriarchal society must be close to being invisible. They come and go as ordered, not expected to have their own thoughts, personality, personhood. They’re flesh-and-blood robots, overlooked as long as they’re functioning as expected. When they do get noticed, it is as sexual objects with no option for consent.
Young women from noble families are only valued as a means of forging alliances and expanding power, traded like prize cattle for childbearing.
It was natural that DI thought San was entering a courtesan house in order to have a liaison with a gisaeng. As she says to San, most men of their culture have extra-marital affairs, not adhering to the same standards of chastity and virtue as women. San is unusual in his refusal to entertain physical lust in any way that appears shameful; however, he was blind to the impression he would generate by repeatedly entering a courtesan house under cover of darkness. He may have thought he was fine as long as he didn’t have contact with any women within the house, but didn’t realize that rumor can be as damaging as fact. He was naรฏve.
At the second Dongdeok Order meeting DI attended, after she delivered the Crown Prince’s message and tried to present her idea on how to end his confinement, she was interrupted and ignored by the men in the room. Her existence didn’t register in their worldview. She had no value, in their thinking. And that’s what will make her valuable: her invisibility to others will allow her to observe, gather, and pass information without generating suspicion, because she’s not expected to have or use a brain.
It is interesting that San, who cherishes DI, says he trusts her but doesn’t think much of her abilities. He was raised with prejudices against women, against servants, against people of low social status, so he underestimates her despite having experienced her intelligence during their chats when he was incognito. On the other hand, DR acknowledges DI’s abilities, but distrusts her. He may recognize that her intelligence will make her difficult to manipulate. She’s made it clear to DR that she is suspicious of him: to her, he’s a scary person.
Show gives us some dialogue explaining why the father of Crown Prince Yi San, Crown Prince Sado, was punished by his father: he cut off a eunuch’s head and carried it on display around the palace; he beat and sexually abused court ladies, causing some to die of their injuries and some to commit suicide from the trauma. His horrific behavior was attributed to insanity. That his behavior toward those who served in the palace is considered appalling, in a culture where servants were considered lowly, speaks to how far Sado crossed the line. Crown Prince Yi San is steadfast in his fidelity to his father. In history, King Jeongjo tried hard to clear his father’s name and reputation. Did he believe his father was framed?
Reading the Wikipedia article on Crown Prince Sado (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Prince_Sado), some of the information based on the book written by his surviving widow Lady Hyegyeong, I suspect the real Crown Prince Sado was a violent, brutal man who not only took out his anger on underlings, but subjected his wife, concubines, and children to physical abuse. He also threatened violence against other court members. Lady Hyegyeong and Sado’s mother witnessed Sado threaten to kill his sister Princess Hwawan. This alone may have soured Princess Hwawan on Sado and his line, but there was more bad blood between them:
“Late in 1757, Sado took another secondary consort, Pingae (Royal Noble Consort Gyeong), who had been a lady-in-waiting to his grandmother, so his relations with her were considered to breach the incest taboo…When Yeongjo found out, he berated his son and Sado eventually jumped down a well, but a guard pulled him out. Lady Hyegyeong had, by this point, managed to have Pingae hidden in the home of Sado’s sister, Princess Hwawan.”
“In 1761, Sado beat Pingae in a fit of rage. He left her on the floor, where she died. Lady Hyegyeong prepared her body for the funeral rites, but, on his return, Sado reportedly said nothing about Pingae’s death.”
These deaths, injuries, and threats are not what resulted in Sado’s execution: it was rumors he attempted to enter the upper palace to kill King Yeongjo.
“Fearing for the safety of her grandchildren, Royal Consort Yeong begged Yeongjo to deal with Sado…By court rules, the body of a royal could not be defiled and, under the then-common practice of communal punishment, Sado’s wife and son (the family’s only direct male heir) could also face death or banishment if he were executed as a criminal…As a solution, Yeongjo ordered Sado to climb into a wooden rice chest (roughly 1.3m square / 4 feet square) on a hot July day in 1762…According to Lady Hyegyeong’s memoirs, Sado begged for his life before getting into the chest, though he attempted to get out again…
Along with her children, Lady Hyegyeong was taken back to her father’s house on the same day. After two days, King Yeongjo had the chest containing Sado tied with rope, covered with grass, and moved to the upper palace…Sado responded from inside the chest until the night of the seventh day; the chest was opened and he was pronounced dead on the eighth day…Yeongjo then restored him to the position of crown prince…
Although the Wikipedia article attributes Sado’s death to starvation, I suspect he died of thirst. An otherwise healthy person might survive 8-21 days without food and water, and up to two months with adequate water intake. Sado climbed into the rice chest on a hot July day, so I imagine he died of dehydration.
Because King Yeongjo wished to protect his direct male line, he never declared Sado to be a criminal. In 1764, to further protect the legitimacy of his grandson, Crown Prince Yi San, as heir to the throne, King Yeongjo ordered Yi San’s posthumous adoption by the deceased Crown Prince Hyojang (King Yeongjo’s first and illegitimate son, who’d died 34 years prior at the age of nine, seven years before his half-brother Sado was born) and the deceased crown princess Hyosun (who’d married at age nine, was widowed one year later, and died in 1751, thirteen years before she was declared Yi San’s adoptive mom).
Being that Yi San never met either of his adoptive parents, both dead by the time he was born, it doesn’t surprise me that on assuming the throne, he publicly declared, “I am the son of the late Crown Prince Sado.”
SPOILERS FROM HISTORY
One thing Show hasn’t mentioned yet, is that Crown Prince Yi San is already a married man, having been wed to Lady Kim in 1762 when he was age ten and she age nine. When Yi San ascended the throne as King Jeongjo, she became Queen Hyoui. They did not have any children together, but Queen Hyoui adopted the sons of Royal Noble Consort Ui (whom we know as Deok Im) and Royal Noble Consort Su.
We hope this show gives us a happy ending, with Deok Im becoming San’s most beloved consort. In real life, things did not go well for them. Yi San became King Jeongjo on 27 April 1776. Deok Im became a Royal Consort on September 7, 1782, and the next month (13 October 1782) gave birth to a son, Yi Sun, who was given the title Prince Successor in November 1782. Her next child, a daughter, died shortly after birth in 1784. Prince Successor Yi Sun died at age four, on 11 May 1786. Four months later, on 04 November 1786, Royal Noble Consort Ui died of liver cancer during her third pregnancy, the full-term but unborn child dying with her.
King Jeongjo suddenly died under suspicious circumstances on 18 August 1800, at age 47. He was succeeded by his only living son, Yi Gong, by Royal Noble Consort Su of the Bannam Park clan, who became King Sunjo of Joseon. (When King Sunjo died on 13 December 1834 at age 44, he left no heir to the throne despite having fathered two sons; his eldest son Crown Prince Hyomyeong, preceded him in death by four years, and his second son died as a baby.) King Jeongjo’s only other surviving child, Princess Sukseon, also by Royal Noble Consort Su, lived until 1836. She was married in 1804 at age 12 and had one son in 1813 with her husband, Hong Hyeon Ju.
@Welmaris Thanks for the great summary history of King Yeongjo, CP Sado and CP Yi San (King Jeongjo). It makes more understandable the sentiment of various members of the court. It becomes clear that Head Court Lady is so against Yi San’s enthronement, (and why the grandad King is so afraid of any signs of San’s disobedience) because it is believed that the apple won’t fall far from the tree. She fears he might start abusing the Court Ladies like his father did.
I presume the rest of the plotting of the court is to do with swaying power the way they want, so as to be in position to successfully, politically manipulate.
At the moment Head Court Lady has aligned herself (or vice versa) with Second State Councilor Hong. If they make a further alliance with Princess Hwawan, they will be quite a formidable force of enemies for Yi San to reckon with.
Hah! After poking through some information on Korean royal lineage, I’ve learned that Park Bo Bum (who played Crown Prince Hyomyeong in the 2016 Kdrama Love in the Moonlight) and Kim Min Jae (who appeared in a cameo in the 2018 film Feng Shui as Crown Prince Hyomyeong) are thus both the “grandson” of Lee Jun Ho, who plays Crown Prince Yi San.
@GB I enjoyed reading your comments and quotes of the scenes โคโค
@Welmaris, thanks for the detailed back story! And the connection to the other dramas. I am getting to know Korean history a bit better ๐ ๐
A TMI, infertility and infant deaths is common in the 1700s.
DeokIm who managed to get pregnant 3 times was quite revered because a queen or concubines value is based on their ability to give birth to a future heir. Actually she had 2 miscarriages before delivering the first crown prince.
Also as a sign of how much King Jeongho valued and loved DeokIm, when married, her residence was close to his office. He tried and found ways to raise her status by creating a surname for her legitimately.
@Welmaris @GB @Grace @Cel WOW! I have learned a lot today. Thank you for all your interpretations, recapping, historical background. I have a good time.
About the riddle that DI gave: Name the King who had 3 different kinds of bells?
The answer is King Sejong.
It was a pun. Se-is 3 and Jong is Bell.
Yes, It was quite childish.
@Grace and @Kuroshio (and again @Phoenix, @Good Twin, @birdie007) you’re most welcome and your appreciation is much appreciated LOL. Only some shows inspire and get me going, and to have events/conversations clear my mind, I transcribe them. In the process patterns may pop up or something I forgot comes back to inform a future scene.
I love it where anything is written with care and layers to enrich future parts of the plot, ie the writer allows us to catch clues earlier, and to play along to figure out the end, if we can pay attention and remember those clues!! Putting things into writing helps.
Your appreciation also inspires me. I’m happy to share my notes and hope they’ll be useful to add joy to our drama watching.
Kalimera Ladies!
Thank you to everyone @GB Unnie, @Grace, @Phoenix, @GoodTwin, @Birdie and @Welmaris who posted about the poem and its meaning, the scenes trascription and historical events. It was amazing to read!
I want to differentiate myself from what you have written so far about how Yi San thinks about Deok Im.
From their first encounter, Yi San is captivated by Deok Im by her character. Then by her brain. She is his favorite and we know it and his Gyeomsaseo figured it out. The fact that Hong Deok-Ro wanted to kill her without Yi San’s order means a lot for me.
I am pretty sure that Yi San knows pretty well how cold Gyeomsaseo is. I also believe that Yi San may have know that he learns intel from the Court Ladies, but at the same time, he didn’t know in what extent he is doing so.
So, when the curfew is lifted we get to see that scene where Yi San is shooting arrows and Gyeomsaseo is talking to him. When I watched the scene, I realized that Yi San doesn’t want Gyeomsaseo to be near Deok Im at all. That’s why he dismissed her in front of him, about what she did with the Queen.
I don’t take for granted what he said below, TY @GB Unnie!
San : Why do you hold a mere court lady in such high esteem? I trust her, but I do not think highly of her talent.
While at the same time, Yi San got information from Gyeomsaseo what he thinks about Deok Im.
DR : Is that so? I myself think highly of her talents, but do not trust her..
As I have said on Saturday, the fact that Gyeomsaseo asked Deok Im to tell him what is in the Crown Prince’s heart was not insignificant and should be noted. Since we now know that he wants his sister to become the Prince’s Consort that shows how he will treat Deok Im from now on. Deok Im is his enemy.
As for why Yi San told her “naive” after her encounter with the Queen.
My interpretation is that Yi San called Deok Im “naive” because she doesn’t know how the Palace Politics work. For a novice herself, she did an excellent job not only with her answers pleasing the Queen, I agree over here with @GB Unnie, but also with finding the most profound reason where the Queen could punish Princess Hwawan in front of everyone and could get away with it.
We all know that Yi San is attracted to Deok Im. He confessed himself in the beginning of the episode and he is wondering about her feelings.
At the same time, Deok Im earned Yi San’s trust because she has proved herself many times now. Hence she is also his confidante. That’s why he has called her twice Deok Im-Ah and that she is his person.
He is worried about her, because he knows that his right hand man the Gyeomsaseo Hong Deok-Ro is envious of her. While at the same time, she is also a target for Princess Hwawan.
I believe since we don’t have subs for the preview of the next episode, that he will ask his Grandfather permission for Deok Im to become his Concubine.
Firstly, because he loves her and as it seems Deok Im told her friends that she likes Yi San and then to protect her from all that danger.
Lastly, the actor Kang Hoon who plays Gyeomsaseo Hong Deok-Ro is the one who played Kang Tae-Jeong in “You are my Spring”. He was the brother of Kang Da-Jeong.
Hi Doensaeng @Cleo! That’s interesting. I didn’t even notice that Kang Hoon acted the part of the brother of Da Jeong! I just find him two-faced, hence sinister, in this show, and didn’t really think if he looked familiar.
Did San call her her Deok Im-Ah twice? I know he called her his person twice.
Thanks for giving us your thoughts. Your words brings to the fore again, how dangerous a place the palace is. One just has to be favoured by somebody, to suddenly have several enemies. At the moment DI may not be aware of all of them, just of the obvious ones.
Is your elbow better yet? Read ya again!
@GB Unnie,
I thought he was familiar, but in this one, he is transformed to a sinister character from 0 to 1! I agree with you!
As for Yi San: I remember that he called her Deok Im-Ah twice!
The first one was when DI was giving him information about the Queen’s riddles. The scene where he called her naive.
I thought that the second one was in the Royal Bath, but I have to check. I agree with you that he called her twice “his person”.
When I started watching sageuks (with Faith: The Great Doctor being my first one) I realized that the palace politics are so very dangerous. In “The Red Sleeve Cuff” is so obvious from the very beginning.
Yes it is better, but because it is humid, I am being conscious about it!
See you in another thread! :*
How interesting that an actor can do a fine job with a character in a good drama and still be forgettable, then inhabit a different character in a different drama and make a huge impression. I suspect playing Gyeomsaseo Hong Deok Ro will be a turning point in Kang Hoon’s career. Good for him!
About the Queen publicly reprimanding Princess Hwawan: DI gave her a reason–wearing Chinese silk at an event meant to promote the Korean silk industry–but Yi San’s response to the Queen’s question about his opinion of her, which DI passed along word for word, provided the Queen with the explanation she used before the King to explain why she took such action. She couldn’t look petty and vindictive, or she’d lose the King’s favor. Without explicitly using Yi San’s mirror analogy, she impressed on the King her desire to lead by example for the benefit of Joseon and her children by marriage. Deok Im, Yi San, and the Queen all worked as a team to take down Princess Hwawan a few pegs.
@Welmaris and @Grace: Thank you for the actual history surrounding our characters. It will be interesting to see how closely our drama adheres to the historical events. Not sure if there are any Korean native speakers here who have read The Red Sleeve Cuff novel from which this was adapted.
I have been surprisingly charmed by this show. It is my favorite historical drama this year. It’s a simpler story than either LOTRS or King’s Affection (i.e., there is less peril/consequence around every corner in the plot), but I think it is better written than either of them. There seem no empty moments where past scenes are endless repeated or the almost-lovers make long moony eyes at one another. I have found myself eagerly rewatching scenes just to trace certain story arcs–not because I am confused but because it seems to increase my viewing pleasure. (So far I rewatched all the scenes in the library, to see their earlier interactions and to see how the misunderstanding of his identity began).
I’m so glad to have this blog where you all have done all the historical research for me, especially the text to the odes that Deok Im read to the prince. As to what happened historically, as it says at the beginning of each show, it’s based on history but the characters are fictional. So I can imagine a long and happy life for them…
Kalispera!
I have been looking english subs for the next episode and I found them on You Tube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nRCADAk4ls
Please check in the comments section the User: Orange Is .
He / She posted historical information regarding the historical even @grace posted. Yi San asked three times Deok Im to become his Royal Concumbine. He / She explains it pretty well. I thought you would love to read it.
Here’s another Kdrama tie-in to this show: Sungkyunkwan Scandal (sorry, @Packmule3, I know you wouldn’t recommend this show because its male lead, Park Yoo Chun, has since gotten in trouble with sexual assault accusations and drug use.) Actor Jo Sung Ha, age 44 when SS aired, plays King Jeongjo in the later years of his reign. King Jeongjo was age 47 when he died.
Just a bit more TMI…which will not be quite related to this show but was really interesting for me.
King Yeongjo’s first son died possibly of measles, not chicken pox as said by commenter Orange Is in the YT video. There was an epidemic during that time and King Yeongjo did a lot to create reforms to manage epidemic and help the poor who do have access to medicine or medical care. Also, from some records, it is said that his son recovered from it but still died. In the same year, DeokIm passed away, while it is written that it was due to cancer, it was also written that she was so sad from the death of her son that it was also hard for her to recover from her grief.
Ad Hoc Notes on our OTP
– First meeting as children, they bicker but help each other. DI hears his name but he does not know hers.
– Second meeting (meet-cute), she not only falls on him, pushing him into the pond but is totally the opposite of being helpful in getting him out when he was standing up in the water just fine, but she drags him back into the water again and again, in the name of saving him. I watched this at least 3 times and still couldn’t help laughing. No wonder he made her write the apology letter 5 times. They don’t even see each other’s faces.
– Third and subsequent meetings in the library, they rub each other up the wrong way and she’s totally rude towards him, until she hopes to get his help in her letter writing. It was fortunate that he never put on his Crown Prince hat in those situations, or it would have been ‘off with her head.’ DI is misled as to his identity and he discovers that the librarian maid is the same girl who pushed him into the water.
– After the tiger hunt, DI is finally undeceived as to San’s identity, and they move from bickering strangers to master and servant, and to trusted confidants.
By the time we get to the meeting in San’s bathroom, we’re all set to bookend their 2nd meet cute as DI once again falls upon San, near water, and they get embarrassingly wet together. This time they look at each other’s face. A new baptism that heralds a new turn in their relationship? ๏ No apology letter required this time!
About Yi San
In Episode 1/2, it seems boy San had asked his mother to find the young court lady who’d helped him.
San : “Did you find that girl?”
Princess Hyebin lies : “That girl you’re looking for already left the Palace.” (Actually Hyebin must have found out that the girl was DI whom she’d helped to keep alive by having her trained as a court lady.)
San : “What do you mean she left? How? She said she was a young court lady. How could she have left when I’m still alive?” (Although so young, he was already well versed in what was due to him as Crown Prince and King. All retainers were practically slaves of the royal household until death of royalty or death of retainer.)
Princess Hyebin looked away : “Let’s just think that she left. It’s better than being dead.” (There’s a warning in her words, that Deok Im might have ended up dead if it was discovered she had helped to hide the Crown Prince.)
Princess Hyebin continues : “What if the King finds out you went to see your Grandmother? You would both get into trouble.”
San becomes aware of the gravity of the situation and is solemn.
Princess Hyebin : “Don’t look so sad. You’ll soon forget about your Grandmother. I’ll look for that girl then.”
San : “It’s okay. You don’t need to. You’re right. What’s the point of me seeing her? I’m the Crown Prince. She’s just a lowly court lady. 1)We can’t even be friends. 2)We can’t even sit in front of each other. Since you say she left the Palace, 3)I’ll believe you. 4)I won’t ever look for her.”
San actually has to eat all his words because:
1) he did become friends with DI
2) they did sit opposite to each other (later in the library)
3) he did not believe his mother because
4) the second he thought he saw DI, he ran through the rows of young court ladies to look for her
San was disappointed that he didn’t find her, but at the same time acknowledges to himself : “But it’s better for you if you are away.” He says aloud : “When somebody is with me it can get dangerous for them.”
Poor lonely San. This was something he knew and accepted when he was a mere child. He did not want to endanger others, and hence held them at arm’s length for their protection. This was maybe why he was such a curmudgeon and difficult to serve. However DI got underneath all the protective layers to inadvertently become his friend.
Unlike with anyone else, San was able to see DI’s true attitude towards him, because he’d known her while she wasn’t aware of his identity. He was later able to see that despite knowing who he was, she did not change. She still spoke her mind, daring to argue with him. She remained sincere. It is understandable that he would ultimately want to keep her with him always.
DI and San’s Interactions
It’s laughable that what DI accidentally did to San (when they first fell into the pond) would have landed her in prison for attempted murder, but that subsequent times when she deliberately pushes, or sweeps San out of the library, not to mention when she threw salt and the map into his face, San was impotent to take action, because he lied about his identity.
LIBRARY INTERACTION 1
San had just received an anonymous letter that rejected him as the future king. He was out looking for spies when he came across DI in the Library. He makes the mistake of looking down on her and offering her a pittance for information.
DI looks at the coins San dropped into her hand with a sneer.
San arrogantly : “So you’re finally inclined to answer my questions.”
She gives him a look of disdain : “This is not even enough to bribe a court lady.”
San is miffed : “Five nyang is not enough?”
DI : “Of course. I’m worth more than this.”
She throws the money at him, hitting his body LOL.
DI : “This is the East Palace library. It may be too old for His Highness to frequent, but it does belong to the royal Crown Prince. That applies to me too. I may be a young court lady but I belong to the East Palace. How dare you try to bribe the Crown Prince’s person?”
San has been speechless for a while.
San : “Hah, you are the Crown Prince’s person?” (Once again words he’ll have to eat, since it will be he, himself, who’ll call her his person.)
DI : “I said I belong to the East Palace.”
San : “What loyalty could a court lady have?”
DI gets upset at this : “Get out immediately.” (She usually gets upset when looked down upon.)
She literally pushes against his chest to get him going, but falls backwards herself. (Ooh lalaโฆ so much physical interaction in that day and age?)
San ignominiously gets literally swept out of the library with a dusty broom.
DI to herself : “He is so weird for someone looking handsome.” (She acknowledges that he’s handsome here, but later we find that she does not consider him as handsome as the lecturer is rumoured to be.)
LIBRARY INTERACTION 2
San is back in the library, still looking for the sply. He focuses on DI’s having an ornament, as if she’d been bribed.
He grabs her wrist : “This? After acting all high and refusing to take money from me?” She tries to get her wrist free but he won’t let go.
San : “It was foolish of me. The spy was right nearby, but I was totally off guard.”
DI : “What are you talking about?”
He grabs her right shoulder with his free hand : “How dare you call yourself the Crown Prince’s court lady?” (He’s strangely physical with DI.)
DI : “Let go of me. Who are you? Tell me your name first.”
San : “Why must I let a mere young maid know of my name?”
DI : “Don’t look down on me for who I am. In the future, I could be a senior fifth-rank consort.”
San : “Really?” (San suddenly remembers that the little girl court lady who had helped him, had said the same thing.) He says to himself : “She was a court lady too.”
Seeing him distracted, DI frees herself from his grasp. They proceed to sit opposite each other while DI shows him her handwriting.
San continues to look down on DI although she proves that she’s able to transcribe the “Extended Meaning of Greater Learning.”
San is amazed : “No way. How could a young maid โฆ”
DI : “You keep thinking lowly of a young maid. Who do you think you are? Is being an official that great?”
San : “An official?”
DI : “No wonder your voice sounded familiar. You are one of the lecturers that assist the Crown prince, are you not?”
San sighs. He decides to lie and let her continue in that belief : “Yes, I’m a lecturer.”
DI : “What is your name?”
San lies : “My name is Hong Dong Ro. I’m the Crown Prince’s teacher.”
DI : “The Crown Prince’s teacher.? You’re lying.”
San : “Why?” (He’s surprised that she should penetrate his lies.) “Why? I am his teacher.”
DI : “I heard the Crown Prince’s teacher is very good-looking.”
San is stunned : “What?” (LOLOL. Sucked the wind from his sails there.)
DI : “I heard he is the most good-looking man in Hanseong, that so many women admire him.”
San is practically stuttering : “Are you disappointed to see me?”
DI dismisses his chagrin : “That is how rumours start.” (I loved this!)
This encounter ends up with DI being so incensed with San that she throws salt at his back and shuts him out of the library. When he insists she opens the door, she does so and throws more salt at him, but this time at his ‘handsome’ face LOL. San can only sputter impotently.
Seeing Deok Ro immediately after this, San notes cynically : ” Oh, the most good-looking man in Hanseong.”
DI and San’s Interactions continued
LIBRARY INTERACTION 5
San has just frustrated DI’s 5 attempt at the letter of apology and says to himself with satisfaction : “I said it was going to be tough.”
The 5th time that DI met San in the library, DI complains loudly to him, about himself LOL : “Having my pay cut is much better. I would rather be caned. I’m sick of writing letters of apology.”
San : “What is so bad about it? It gives you a chance to realise your wrongdoing.”
DI : “A chance or whatever. Even a worm will turn. When I think about the Crown Prince, I wake up from my sleep. Will someone who tortures his subordinates so much become a good king?”
San snaps a book shut and comes up to where DI is.
San : “How dare you speak ill of His Highness?”
She rudely throws a map at San’s face, LOL and it’s the map that helps them locate the tiger.
While she looks for more maps, she loses her balance, but San is there in time to stop her fall by pushing her face into the bookshelf LOL. Now that’s poetic justice!
LIBRARY INTERACTION 6 – The beginning of a change in attitude
DI has to write a different letter of apology for being insincere in her other letter, LOL and totally loses it in the library much to San’s amusement.
Later, she gives him water to drink again, not because she wants anything from him but because he was taking it upon himself to catch the tiger.
This time with a different sentiment, DI says : “You are great.” He looks at her in slight surprise. “I mean it. You are great.”
He smiles his crooked smile.
DI : “Why are you smiling?”
San : “Now that I think about it. I have only seen you in the library. What do you usually do?” (San is finally showing an interest in the person of DI.)
DI : “Well it’s nothing special. I transcribe a book or read it to people. I do not sew often because I do not like it.”
San : “Do you still read folktales to people. I told you not to read them.”
DI : “What do you care whether I read a book to people or not?”
San : “It’s my order!”
DI : “Exactly. So why do I have to follow your order? You are not my master.” He is silenced.
When he hears that she’d be reading that night during the festival he gets her grounded in night duty and unable to go for the festival. (It only confirmed to himself that he was indeed her master, but that was really too petty and most unfair!)
At the Court Ladies’ rehearsal for their festival, San had witnessed how DI was able to command the attention of all the court ladies, by offering to read a story. He saw that the girls gathered around in an orderly manner and could be commanded to cooperate.
This inspired him to get DI to save the court ladies from the tiger on the night of the festival.
LIBRARY INTERACTION 7
San enters the library and literally pulls DI outdoors. She shakes her hand free to insist on knowing what was going on.
San : “I know it will be dangerous, but you are all I have. Only you can do it.” (A reference to her being his person?)
DI : “Pardon?”
San : “Read a book. Please. Read a book in front of people.”
This is the first time he’d made a request, instead of issuing an order, and it was a sign of his trust in her courage, good sense and abilities.
Kalimera @GB Unnie,
Great comments as usual! I enjoyed reading them!
Tomorrow we get to see the new episode! Yeah!
Kalimera Dongsaeng @Cleo, thanks. It was fun re-watching those scenes.
I, too, am excited about tomorrow’s episode. The aftermath of the bath LOL It even rhymes!
Kalimera my agapimeni @GB!
You are right it is fun re-watching those scenes!
The aftermath of the bath! LMAO!
Let us see what will happen…
Sorry this is so long.
I looked back at my previous episode comments and realised that what I’d hoped for has come to pass in this Ep 6. I wanted DI to have the opportunity to save San, after he’d saved her twice. And she did.
She saved him from boredom by taking the initiative to read from the Book of Odes. At the same time (as noted above on the significance of the interpretations of the poem) the choice of poem assured him that she was on the same page with him, literally and figuratively.
She saved him from hopelessness by assuring him of her support and protection, and she saved him from wasting too many days in confinement.
In the course of the action, Writer-nim is commenting on the role and rights of court ladies.
Theme of the Status of the Servant (and the Role and Attitude of the Master)
For a change, we get a Show that gives us more of a servant’s perspective of palace life. Show has been harping quite a lot on the status of servants in the palace who are often invisible and looked down upon by their masters. At the same time, those same servants, like the court ladies who get to live in the palace, are revered as fairies by the common folk. It is an irony highlighted by Hd CL Jo.
In Episode 2, DI had noted their lack of freedom. She’d explained to Kyung Hee why she let her friends join in the transcription parties. “We can never leave the palace for the rest of our lives. Whether we gain a profit or have a loss, do you not think it is useless? There is nothing much I can do as myself. I do not mind even if it is minor. I want to make choices. I decided to let Young Hee and Bok Yeon in because it was my choice.” (In a situation where much is rigidly controlled, DI reveled in being able to exercise her own discretion in the simplest things, such as determining who got to work with her.)
DI had had a hard time trying to transcribe the book, “Extended Meaning of the Greater Learning.” But it was from this book that promoted the rights of the common people. San quoted is for his role as future King: “To support people is the highest priority.”โฆ
DI hears the question posed to the Crown Prince : “Have you ever wanted to be a commoner instead of being the Crown Prince?”
San : “Never.”
Question : “Has your Crown Prince title ever felt heavy?”
San : “How could I complain when I was destined? I was born as the Crown Prince and read as many great books as I want. I can also order around many talented people. The fact I can use my talent solely for this country is worth more than anything.” (The problem with San is that he didn’t think of his servants as the ‘talented people’ whom he ordered around. They were merely creatures to do his will, until he befriended DI. Of course the dull bodyguard didn’t improve San’s opinion of minions.)
The Hd CL Jo had mixed feelings over the coming-of-age ceremony, since it marked the young girls as servants for life. They were essentially enslaved, having to forego a personal life like having a family of their own. This gives added poignancy to how the young girls admired the handsome gyeomsaseo, but would never be able to marry him. That was probably the reason also that Deok Ro said that he had to keep a distance from DI, because she was a court lady.
We know that upon coming of age (18+) the girls entered as 9th level officials. DI aspired to rise to at least the 5th level. Hd CL Jo had highlighted the fate of a court lady of the 2nd level. Only a favoured court lady, who was a royal concubine, could die inside the palace. An old and infirm court lady would have to leave the palace (I guess because she might die any time). I’m thinking that this was the reason for the look that Hd CL Jo gave the very old Court Lady Park. We discussed this before. It was a matter of time for poor CL Park to be retired and this was a source of pain for Hd CL Jo. No matter how much authority she may have had before, her end would be ‘shabby’.
Throughout the Show, DI balks at being looked down upon. In Episode 4, upon getting notice that they were to be official court ladies, DI had been depressed, knowing that she’d be assigned to the East Palace.
She thinks about how the Crown Prince had deceived her: “Even if I’m there, I’ll still be a servant. You’ll get a pretty dress, attend the ceremony and become an official. Even so, we’ll still be servants that serve masters. We can’t even object if our masters wrong us. If we make a mistake, we’ll be thrown out of the palace. We’ll always live in fear as servants. You can’t think too much if you’re a servant. But I keep having frivolous thoughts.”
She had called San out on his attitude towards her: “You may think of me as merely a lowly servant. However, I will be serving you as my master all my life. So you mustn’t treat me with such contempt and ridicule.”
DI to San : “So you want me to hold no grudges because I am but a lowly servant. Did you come here to tell me that? All you had to do was offer me a sincere apology. But you don’t know how to apologise.”
San : “So you want me to learn how to apologise to my inferiors?”
DI : “Yes. All the people of this kingdom are your inferiors, but someday they will become your subjects. Therefore, please learn how to apologise to your inferiors and also to your subjects. They say a true monarch must learn to recognise his faults and bow his head in contrition. The fact that you do not understand this has been of great disappointment to me.” (We get to see in recent times, that people in authority bow in public to make an abject apology for their wrong doings. It will be even better if they cried tears in public, as a sign of their sincere contrition.)
However, the lowliness of the status of servants can also be used to their advantage.
In Episode 4, when Princess Hwawan wants to get DI beaten to death, the King orders San to practise giving a fair punishment.
San: “As I see it, were a minister to willfully touch the path, they would certainly be killed. but were a commoner to touch the path, they’d be sent to prison to be set free again after a period of confinement. I do think it is right for me to take the god-given life of a subject. That would be my judgment. However, if a court lady were to touch it, I’d rather not waste my time on something so trivial.
San : “Aunt, if a leaf falls onto the path, palace attendants must schedule a time to remove it. If the path freezes over, they’ll spread hot ash to melt it, before then removing the ash. (In other words, the servants will have to step on the path to keep it clean and safe. So debating the punishment for stepping on the path by a servant like DI was a waste of time.) If it is slippery, if the King were to slip, would that not be terrible? Palace attendants are simply our helpers and debating their punishment is beneath us.”
So DI got away with a lighter punishment, although any punishment at all was unfair. Such was the lot of the palace servants, who would be arbitrarily punished depending on the politics of the court and the mood of the master.
San had been a little goaded by his mother and spoke of having a woman in his life : “You are mistaken, mother. As for me, I have no intention of keeping a woman of humble status beside me. Only a daughter of a dignified family would qualify to be by my side. Only such a woman can produce a rightful heir, and producing such an heir is my only intention. โฆ”
Seeing however that DI had heard and had been offended, San took the trouble to acknowledge that he had ruined her special day for her.
However, in Episode 6, we still hear San speak to Deok Ro of DI: “Why do you hold a mere court lady in such high esteem? I trust her, but I do not think highly of her talent.” He still does not regard her as smart enough to be a cause for worry, but Deok Ro is more perceptive than San. It might be also that San refused to acknowledge his regard for DI to DR, in order to protect her from DR’s scrutiny.
By giving DI a voice and having not only San, but also the King, the Queen and Head Court Lady find favour with her, while DR becomes wary of her, Show has elevated DI.
By San’s coming around to follow DI’s directions regarding advising the King to not eat the rice cakes, and then having San acknowledge that DI had saved him, Show appears to promote servants as smart persons deserving of greater respect and better treatment by their masters.
@GB, it is wonderful when a drama grips you so much you want to study, isn’t it? I count it double pleasure: the enjoyment of watching the show itself, and the engagement of analysis and research. The Red Sleeve has inspired me to take on a project that has kept me busy for many hours over several days. I’m doing it for my own benefit, but am willing to share once it’s done. It may be a few more days before I can unveil it.
Hi @Welmaris, LOL yes! If it’s fun and gives the brains a bit of workout, so much the better. I applaud your diligent research. I know you’ll go into great depth and detail and round up your ideas beautifully. I look forward to reading you analyses! ๐
Here’s a BTS on the first splash. Lee Junho is interesting. He’s not the light-hearted, playful kind of person in real life (like Lee Jun Ki who keeps playing around between takes) but is rather serious. He sounds like he feels a bit sorry for himself LOL.
While doing other research, I stumbled across this in the Wikipedia entry for Queen Jeongsun, the second queen consort of King Yeongjo:
“After the death of Queen Jeongseong in 1757, King Yeongjo held bridal selections to choose his second queen. His father had banned former concubines from becoming queen, so King Yeongjo could not elevate one of his concubines to queenship, as many former kings had done.”
“On 9 June 1759, Queen Jeongsun was chosen as queen. During the bridal selections, Yeongjo allegedly asked the candidates what the deepest thing in the world was. Some cited the mountains or the sea, but she cited the human heart, capturing his attention. When asked about the most beautiful flower, she answered, ‘The cotton flower is the most beautiful flower, although it does not exude fashion and scent, but it is the most beautiful flower that warms the people by weaving thread’.”
“On 22 June 1759, Queen Jeongsun formally married King Yeongjo at Changgyeong Palace. This marriage was considered the oldest marriage in Joseon Dynasty history as Yeongjo was 66 years old, and the Queen was 15 years old at the time of the marriage. She was also 10 years younger than her husband’s son and heir, Crown Prince Sado, and his daughter-in-law, Lady Hyegyeong.”
How about that! When her husband, King Yeongjo, died, Queen Jeongsun was honored as Queen Dowager Yesun. When Jeongjo died, she was raised to the status of Grand Queen Dowager Yesun and acted as regent for King Sunjo, who was ten years old when he was enthroned.
Ah @Welmaris, then at least Show has kept this little bit of the Queen’s age right. She did say that when she came and became queen at age 15, she was 7 years younger than Princess Hwawan, hence did not have the confidence to be her ‘mother’.