The thread is open.
It’s taking me a while to warm up to this drama because I believe the lead actress is a miscast.
There’s no denying that Shin Hye Sun is a capable actress but when it comes to showing aegyo, she knows diddly-squat. She’s supposed to be playing a 24 year old (or 23??) girl crushing on the male lead but her character comes off as creepy and stalker-ish because she can’t do aegyo right.
I think IU would have made a better Ban Ji Eum. Just watch her in “Hotel del Luna.” Although her character ManWol was centuries old, she was able to look endearing and girly cute when needed. In comparison, Shin Hye Sun’s portrayal of BJE is an overbearing shrew. There’s a harshness about her that is simply incompatible with the male lead’s neediness.
If it were not for this miscast, the story is interesting enough. While Ban Ji Eum is busy doing a post-mortem on her previous reincarnations, she’s oblivious to the possibility that she isn’t the only one trapped in a never-ending rebirth. For one, there’s a shaman who seems to recognize her kind. For another, there’s a hip-hop dancer (lol, note the contrast to BJE’s flamenco dancing) who flits in and out of the hotel to arrange the floral display in the lobby.
I also like the motifs: water, running for dear life, calling one’s name, farewells. Hopefully, I can write more on these when I’m back stateside.
Let’s enjoy the show.
Thanks @pkml3. I’ve hit my busy season in RL. I’ll see how much watching and writing I can do. When I need a break, I analyse dramas!!!
@GB, you will be welcomed and eagerly read whenever you decide to Post. Priorities are priorities!!! 😀 .
And yes dear @PM3. In the first episodes I saw the female lead as a mask. I was put-off and to be honest my radar for females still doesn’t “blip” on her. That said the actress has been loosening her facial expressions and have become more girlish on subsequent episodes. For me it is something about her eyes. It is a “show not tell” situation so I think the actress is really good.
But I concur she was miscast. I am not attracted to her the way I am attracted to Im Yoon-Ha in “King the Land”: directly, emphatethically, protectively, mesmerizingly; almost if I were to fall in love if I were careless. For Ms. Shin Hye-Sun I am more interested in her actions, her thought process, her goals, her philosophy… kind of how I would be interested by a male character. I recognize it sounds kind of moronic but attraction is attraction… and it is hard to convey properly.
That said even if I think that IU would have been a more lovely female lead, I recognize that said harshness and inscrutability plays very well to the old soul premise and during her interactions with non-loved ones.
Still have to start Episode 5 at the moment I am writing this, so lets see.
Hope you are having a blast during your vacations!!! 😀
Kalispera Everyone!
I was so pissed off when Secretary Ha said that to Cho Won and she made assumptions about Ms. Ban. They are all hurt from the passing of Ju Won but she is also trying to live her new life as Ban Ji Eum and it is not that easy for her as well. To pretend she doesn’t know. To pretend she is not emotionally involved. Always to wear a poker face around her loved ones.
I am glad JE told her sister who she really is and I do hope she will realize that Ji Eum does care about them so very much that she got involved herself with them again regardless that her 18th 1life was cut short.
Also the niece is sick and Ji Eum doesn’t know…This won’t go well…
P.S. The scene at the beach with Seo Ha and Ji Eum being filmed from the window above is chef kiss!
Kalynichta from my side of the World dear @Cleo!!!, the misunderstanding made me sad but please understand that we are omniscient spectators and we know the most incredible part of the story due to the writer’s generosity, it is his story and being able to remember Ms. Ban’s previous reincarnations (and make good use of her past experience) is an extremely interesting quirk. If you think as an in-universe character that does not know about reincarnation and are not able to read minds then this person rattles everyone with her deep understanding and odd familiarity.
As any person you have known in your life sometimes you find surprises: sometimes the person you think will be a big help becomes a hindrance, the person you trusted the most crossed you, the person that you did not expect anything from is the one to help you pick the pieces.
In real life a person like Ms. Ban would be mysterious yes, but her uncanniness could be extremely unpleasant not because she does not behave in a way that helps them but because you don’t know what she is up to.
EPISODE 5
Hi @Cleo, @FGB, @pkml3
When I watch Ji Eum’s expressions and smile when she looks at Seo Ha, I actually find her a bit creepy LOL. I don’t think she’ attempting aegyo. I believe she wants to imprint herself on SH’s memory. But her looks are too knowing, too full of expectation, … her smile seems somehow demanding. Not like a smile that’s just friendly or casual but full of purpose.
I also agree with @FGB that JE’s strangeness, her inexplicable familiarity with them or with situations, will weird people out. I’m only a viewer and even I feel uncomfortable by the way she looks at her friends.
I suppose it suits the conceit that she’s there with an ulterior motive, and that she announces it openly. Also that she’s actually a very much older person who’s looking out for the naive youngsters.
The image of the umbrella trope here is that SH takes care of himself, as he carries his small umbrella, but JE is ready with a big umbrella that goes over his, and which can shelter both of them.
In this couple relationship, the girl will be the ‘boss’.
= = =
I’m wondering about Do Hyun’s motivations. Why does he not want to be in a closer relationship with Cho Won? He seems to like her but when she initiates a romance with him, he says ‘no’.
He seems to be more over-protective over SH than caring about Cho Won’s feelings. I agree with @Cleo that he shouldn’t have accused her of being irresponsible, drinking with SH, etc when it wasn’t her at all.
The Shaman has now inserted himself into the life of JE/Ju Won. It’s looks worrisome because his expressions when he considers JE are dark rather than friendly.
It’s sad to think that Ji Eum as Ae Gyeong’s samchoon (17th life Jung Ho) is about to lose her/his niece.
So Han Na, (the dancer who puts flowers into the vase at the hotel) recognises Ji Eum as Ju Won, which means she was also from Ji Eum’s 18th life. So she and the shaman also remember their past lives and are hovering near the people of their past. While Ha Na seems to be innocuous, the Shaman is somewhat menacing.
I liked that SH can defend himself while JE is resourceful enough to come up with solutions that do not include violence, even when confronted with violent people. Her flamenco dance is enough to scare people off LOL.
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I was thinking how nice it would be if JE could get rid of her horrid brother the way Sa Rang in ‘King The Land’ could get rid of her ex-boyfriend. Such pesky pests!
@FGB, I forgot to thank you for your kind words. It always makes my day to know anyone reads me at all. A little ‘peep’ and ‘hi’ from a lurker too, sets me up no end! LOL.
@GB, I think Hana the dancer is Seo Ha’s mum reincarnation. The flowers she brought to the hotel is Gladiolus and someone whom Seo Ha loved by like them. The other person whom Seo Ha would openly say he loved is probably his mum.
At the traffic junction where Hana met Ji Eun, she called JE Ju Won. And I heard JE said “Ajuma?” Hana probably retained her memory from her previous life but how did she recognise Ju Won?
Min Ki was also watching her when at the dance venue.
Hi @FF, yes, I believe you’re right. Someone else also said the same thing.
I wondered how Han Na could recognise Ju Won in the form of JE. Something about the way Han Na spoke seems to have clued JE in to calling her ahjumma.
This is just my guess, but perhaps in all her 18 past lives, no one had ever remembered her before or she’d never met anyone who also remembered their past lives before. Then this 19th life is different. On top of this, JE guesses that she was murdered. Might it be possible that more than one person linked to JE had been killed.
Her immediate reincarnation so that her 18th and 19th lives actually have a period of overlap might be her chance to right the wrong and save anyone else, like maybe Seo Ha, who could still be in danger from the killer.
@packmule3, I think Shin Hye-sun’s casting is fine.she’s supposed to be a reincarnated person who remembers all her past lives and given the premise,would not behave like a typical 24 year old young woman. I agree that there are definitely creepy elements to this character. But, suspending disbelief, after 18 remembered lives, it would seem that keeping it all together with a level of coherence would be impossible. And I think annoyance and the perception of stalking would be part of the picture. I also don’t think we7 in for a happy ending. I am more interested to see how this plays out.
Kalispera @FGB from my part of the world,
Yes you are right. My objection is that Secretary Ha knew that Ji Eum doesn’t want to harm Seo Ha. She has an ulterior motive, but her motive has to do with being with Seo Ha. So far she is always trying to protect him.
In real life, that we have no rememberance of our previous lifes – if that is happening, we cannot say for sure – yes human relationships are the hardest when people we have trusted betrayed us, or we did.
Yes, I agree Ms. Ban is mysterious but not a bad person like some others…
Kalispera,
@Feifei, I was the one who wrote that Hanna was the reincarnation of SeoHa’s mom, you can find it on the previous thread for Episodes 3-4.
As for tonight’s episode, I was wondering about the accident not being an accident but a foul play and I was right. Someone wanted to kill SeoHa as the Mun sole successor. We heard the hitman calling someone “Tepenim” but we don’t know yet who that he / she is. Is someone from the family or someone outside the family?
I really liked that some secrets came out in the open. Like SeoHa finally learning that the driver Ha, who died on the day of the accident is actually Secretary Ha’s father.
So, Secretary Ha is not dating Cho Won because his father was the driver the day of the accident. So he feels like, Cho Won will accuse him that his father killed her sister? It was not his fault either. So, I don’t think that is the case. Does he have guilt or he feels like he is out of her league?
One fact for sure is that Secretary Ha is suppressing his emotions.
I read on MDL that on the webtoon there is another pairing for Cho Won, but I am wondering if they will follow it on the show. From Episode 7’s teaser, it seems that maybe they will change it.
I am glad that Cho Won accepted Ji Eum and she is trying to come in terms with it.
This feeling also happens in real life. There are some people we meet and we have this feeling that we “know” them. Imagine if reincarantions do exist, then in our previous lifetimes we were family or friends or lovers. This aspect of the show makes it interesting to me.
Hey Unnie,
I do hope you get to watch Episode 6. Things are escalating from this point and onwards. We are in the half of the show. I am wondering what they will do in the next remaining six episodes…
I agree JE’s brother is awful, but gave great intel to SeoHa about the accident.
@Cleo, @OAL, @FGB, @FF,
EPISODE 6
Questions that these 2 episodes raise:
1) Are the Shaman Min Ki and Han Na forces for good or evil or neutral? Are they present to prevent something bad from happening? Han Na seems to know that when JE reveals her past life identity to the 19th life people, there will be problems.
2) Is Show trolling us?
CEO Mun Jeong Hun, Seo Ha’s father, is involved in something shady with the CEO Im of 24 Caps. The show may be misdirecting us but what it seemed to show in sequence was that loan shark Bang telephoned someone about SH finding out that the accident was attempted murder. Immediately we see CEO Im calling CEO Mun and arriving to meet Mun in his home.
Is Show trying to link CEO Mun with the attempted killing of his own son? Wanting his son dead is so unlikely. And on his birthday!
3) Another person who gains by Seo Ha’s death?
The other person whose relationship with CEO Mun and SH is not clear to me is Lee Sang Hyuk who is helping MI Hotel’s Jang Yeon Ok. He seems to be a bit more savvy and able to hire thugs as killers than Jang. She seems to be more interested in only her own position and her son’s future.
4) Since murder was attempted some 20 years ago, have there been no further attempts? Why is that? Or why was the attempt made at that particular time?
5) I wonder which past life Min Ki came from (did it say 5th?). It looked like over a hundred years in the past when people were fighting with arrows and swords in armour. I guess the Shaman was present and jingling the bells during the killing of JE in that past life.
Now that so many people know that the Wonjo Capital thugs are involved in the death of Jung Won and Do Hyun’s death… it’s frustrating that they are still allowed to go around freely. Partly I believe it’s because the good guys have no proof unless the thugs confess, and partly it’s because SH needs to find out who the boss behind the murder is.
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We have at least more idea why Do Hyun has been resisting taking Cho Won up on the offer to date. I’m surprised that SH never knew DH was the son of his father’s driver. I thought they’d have maybe met as children, since they sort of knew each other in school. DH has a chip on his shoulder as the son of a servant and not up to the ‘level’ of the master’s son or their rich friends, like Cho Won.
I’d like to see Do Hyun finally bend and give in to his feelings for her. Might be even more fun than watching Seo Ha and JE, LOL.
Kalimera Unnie!
1. I got a spoiler on MDL that MinKi is good. I don’t know more about since I didn’t read what really happens on the webtoon.
2. I have read on MDL that the father learned who was behind the accident and sent SeoHa away. I don’t know if they will follow this.
3. Regarding your take, I have also to add, Seo Ha’s uncle. I believe is more unlikely but who knows!?!
5. I don’t remember from which life MinKi is linked to JE. The thing is that in that life Ji Eum was the Shaman herself and the Shaman bells she was holding were saved somehow and MinKi have them. (See again Episode 7’s teaser)
@Everyone,
I also find it very unsettling that Minki said to HanNa that Ji Eum made contact and revealed who she is to her previous life and the person who learns it is in danger. From whom Cho Won is in danger? The Universe? Why should he / she be in danger for? This is the only thing I dislike so far.
Brand New Video by Ella! Enjoy!
@Cleo, yes, I wonder why JE or her friends would be in danger… there’s no mention of gods or authorities who will punish.
In other shows like Goblin there’s a butterfly god or DAYS had also the goddess. Hotel Del Luna had some rules to follow. But in this show, not sure what are supposed to be the rules of reincaration. Just keep reincarnating until when? Did you hear if there’s any way to end the rebirth process?
What’s the rule for natural death, accidents, murder? Seems that we only know that a victim of murder returns too quickly to next life and then the people in their lives overlap. That’s why I had the theory that maybe she’s supposed to save someone in her past life.
It would be good if she could do something to end her rebirth process. Or not remember her past lives…. more peaceful, I think.
Thanks @Cleo. Wow Ella really found so many scenes of our OTP and stitched them together. What a lot of work!
The OSTs did not really stand out for me in this show. However I’m sure some more nice MVs will be made by fans.
Unnie,
I felt that it is too much, without having a decent explanation.
WHO is the one WHO said so?
As you pointed above, there is not explanation and there is no God at the moment. So for me, for now, this is like a plot hole.
Most likely there is a someone she has to meet in order to end this life span remembering her past lives. As I have written in a previous thread on SYIM19L, this continues the logic of Bulgasal and I think it is right to think so.
There should be a logic and a past event in one of her previous lives that made her remember it all. My theory is that something happened in her FIRST LIFE, she doesn’t remember anything about. So far we got those scenes with the repeated nightmare and the blurred images with the Shaman and the Shaman Bells.
So, If I was writing this, I would have a FIRST LIFE -> an EVENT that changed it all -> and then the endless cycle of remembering her previous reincarnations.
It is the most logical scenario.
Also, we need a rule as you said or a prophecy or a curse. Only then, this part will make sense. Now, we are missing important fact and for me this notion is particularly disturbing.
P.S. Ella is amazing! I love her edits! She captures so many emotions in a few minutes!
@Cleo, what you say makes sense. A FIRST life where something happened to make her so special, or that changed a rule of forgetting, so that she remembers all her lives. I need a rule because I want to know if the rule applies to Shaman and to Han Na as well… are they ‘gods’ or people living many lives too… how come they also know so much about JE. These 3 characters are the exception to the everyone-not-remembering-anything rule.
@Cleo, @FF, @OAL, @FGB
Something that looks significant – ill omen? The Azaleas in Cho Won’s mother’s garden are all dried up in the roots and dying.
“What azaleas symbolize?
Azalea Flower Meaning, Symbolism, and Uses – Petal Republic
Azaleas have major significance across the world and in Asia, from which many of the most beautiful varieties hail. They are associated with beauty, temperance, and even death.”
https://www.petalrepublic.com/azalea-flower/#:~:text=Azaleas%20have%20major%20significance%20across,%2C%20temperance%2C%20and%20even%20death.
So is there final death approaching JE or is someone in her 18th life family going to die? If Azaleas symbolise death, then it’s like death is dying… does that mean that there is someone who cannot die? Or like poor JE who keeps getting reborn and has no final death and rest in the afterlife?
@Unnie,
Kalispera. If we take into consideration what also happened in “Kokdu: Season of Deity”, except of “Bulgasal”, there might be a hubris in that FIRST LIFE that made them enter this cycle of endless reincarnations where they remember everything while some others don’t.
I mean those who remember, committed a crime?
Were they punished for something they did?
Who were entangled with? Ban Ji Eum doesn’t remember that life yet.
So far, we have Ji Eum and now MinKi and HanNa. That means those three were together when their ill fated situation started, most likely with different bodies or maybe not. So far we get to see only Ji Eum and her past lives. We know that HanNa was SeoHa’s Omma in her previous life. We don’t know anything yet about MinKi.
@Everyone:
Regarding, the azalea flower meaning @GB Unnie posted above, I think it has to do with Kim Ae-Gyeong’s passing. She is the only one who is ill and she is in tremendous pain. So, it might be a foreshadow.
I am reading that they are toxic and when they were mixed with drinks in the past there was a high chance they can make you have hallucinations!
BTW,
“Azaleas: A Book of Poems” by Kim SoWol was used in The King: Eternal Monarch. If I remember correctly @Packmule3 made a thread about some of the poems mentioned in the narrative.
Especially about the “Name” that cannot be said, because the person is actually dead.
@Cleo, @GB you both have made very good points. I wonder how Min Ki and Han Na found each other, how did they know that making contact with people from their previous lives will bring harm to them, how is it that they recognise Ji Eum but Ji Eum does not recognise them?
I also agree with that something went wrong during Ji Eum’s first life/death that causes her to remember all her past lives. Does Min Ki and Han Na also remember all their past lives? Would Han Na in her previous life as Seo Ha’s mum knows that Ju Won remembers her past lives?
Kalimera @Feifei,
Thank you. They need to show us that connection and not tell us. It would be more profound that way.
As for your third question, I believe that Ji Eum has forgotten the life where everything started. So, they remember her, but she doesn’t. That would make absolute sense why MinKi looked for her and why he remembers, but she doesn’t.